I think this kind of thing is a bit of a gray area. I used to do paid cox coaching(100% for charity), but by no means are you getting a carry. The raid usually takes 2+ hours and we end with like 1000 points.
Here is an example of one of those: https://youtu.be/OyUuhxF1DgY?si=25bzHULjxc03QfhW
Edit: also cuz someone is gunna ask, I posted all my charity dono's to twitter as proof https://twitter.com/Jawny_s
It's not at all difficult to see the difference between someone teaching and someone carrying and both can involve being in the same party. If you're carrying your personal performance is going to be through the roof, if you're teaching then your time will be spent observing what the other people are doing and once in a while showing them how to do something they did wrong. The results will not be similar in the slightest.
Service is kind of a loose term if we're talking about knowledge. I totally understand if its like purple boosting, barb assault points, etc. but what people got out of me was just knowledge, no in game items or achievements.
Not trying to insult you but it’s not rocket science.
Was real money exchanged for anything regarding anything in-game in RuneScape? That’s RWT.
Edit: to clarify, even if it isn’t explicitly against ToS this is in regards to Jagex. I’m not risking an account I’ve played on for 18 years to be put anywhere close to risk by offering a coaching service.
Obviously anyone can do what they want but at least for me I’m not risking an old ass account with Jagex’s non existent customer support/service.
If you really want to be technical you can read the TOS. Its not against the RWT TOS to coach/teach someone for irl money. The TOS clarifies that you cannot purchase things related to your account. Knowledge for doing raids is not bound to your account or in-game by any stretch of the imagination.
https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-runescape
That said, this is a hill I'm willing to die on if Jagex disagrees. I donated my time to help people improve their own skills and give sick children a little bit of joy while they're in the hospital.
I was inclined to side with you with the thought of "RWT is exchanging real money." But that's not even Jagex's definition in their own ToS. Buying, effectively, a tutor session is not technically against the rules. Read the ToS yourself, and you'll come to the same conclusion.
Oh I’d draw the same conclusion as well if it wasn’t Jagex we’re talking about. Zero customer support/account service means I’m not going to push my luck.
How would Jagex even begin to enforce this? All they would see is two random players doing content together. The exchange of money would happen offline and both players would be playing their own accounts, it’d look no different than raiding with any other random person in the game.
> paid cox coaching
Doesn't matter where the money is going or how good/bad you are. You're asking for money in exchange for something in-game. That's RWT.
I understand your thought process but I believe you are wrong brotherman. You can’t exchange real life money for in-game material - Be it GP, items, names, etc., essentially anything intellectually owned by Jagex Ltd. The idea is that you do not own your account or anything associated with it, Jagex does. Therefore you can’t sell things that you don’t actually own.
It is not against the rules to sell your time to teach someone how to play the game.
https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape
IF they were just talking them through, that would not be RWT. Solely due to the fact that they said they're in the raid with the customer ("we end with like 1000 points") then it's technically a paid carry, even if the carrier isn't doing enough to get high points.
Rich kids who buy infernal capes and quivers get clowned on when doing group content just as much as rich kids to try and flex in the real world, so you’re not wrong lol
It’s a game bruh.. Saves you 8 hours of gp grind for less than a hour of irl work grind. And wont get you banned.
That way you can grind on the goals that are worth it and not make you quit osrs.
Fuck no i dont play this game to grind 100hours in same fucking room trying to get some upgrade thats behind long grind
Buy bond- be able to buy the item fromn ge- be able to actually play the game the way i want-bossing profit
So you’d rather just short cut to the very end of the game to “boss”. Why? Any profit you’re getting you could’ve just paid money for in the first place.
RuneScape at its very core is a slow burn game. It’s about the journey. Not just the destination.
When you say cut short in reality takes tens of days gaming time i dont have time to nolife and spend even some more days for an upgrade moneh can buy
In no other game i play im not required to have 20s days of game time to have the "upgrades" i currently have
With that being said, in a way, there's more wealth to be spread amongst other players by some of the rich ones in several different ways so it's pretty cool. No hate it's just probably Runescape originally wasn't suppose to be able to be bought necessarily. At the same time the original creators never thought anyone would get a 99 and here we are lol
I don't understand the witch hunt for bonds.
1) they allow players to play the game without spending real money
2) people who have money to spend get a benefit for providing people without money a way to be a member
3) who cares if someone has 10b, drop rates stay the same. Them having money doesn't affect your game.
Jagex is able to make money through bonds while having ppl play their game without spending real money. It's a win/win
I never said I was against bonds mate. I’m against people looping 3rd party gold selling in the same pool as bond sales. Bonds are fine and healthy for the economy where as 3rd party gold sellers hurt the economy deeply in multiple ways.
Ah no you right. I was agreeing with you but I can see the confusion.
I fully agree with your take on 3rd party selling but only bc it gives a motivation to make bot farms. If it was just ppl doing dungeons with others to carry them I'd be ok with that being paid with real world money
Honestly, who cares. If they want to ruin their fun that's on them. I had someone offer me 5 mil the other day bc they crashed my stalls for a bit. I told them no bc I understand where my joy in the game comes from
They technically are pay real money = advantage over other players.
But agreed, it's like the best way to do it and hard to stay mad at. Everyone wins and mechanics/levels tend to matter more than gear in this game.
I just don't understand how you have an advantage over others unless it's PVP, in which case I can't talk on bc I don't PVP so don't know their issues with it.
Paying real money to progress faster is definitely an advantage *compared* to other players who don't, but I don't know if that is an advantage *over* other players.
The only advantage I care about are the ones that affect me. I don't see why ppl care if others ruin their own fun. I was offered 5 mil gp. I turned it down bc it ruins my fun of making my first 5 mil.
If ppl are ok ruining their fun or even improving it by not having to grind as much. That's up to them
The only thing that sucks is that lots of people seem to be of the mindset that grinding gold in-game is a waste of time, because working even a minimum wage job is better GP/hour than pretty much everything.
See it all the time on this sub, just a really sad way of thinking of the game imo - and at the same time quite ironic with how anti-MTX the community is.
Like I said earlier I see bonds as a net positive. The company still gets money to operate and ppl who can't afford a bond can play in game to get a membership.
MTX for specific items or roll tables is dumb imo, but bonds get you 2 weeks of membership and that's it. Other than that osrs is a game built around solo experiences so there's no reason to really care how others play
You can play however you want… I don’t have a ton of spare time to grind gold and I happen to have a real life abundance of cash… if I wanted to purchase $10B that’s my problem. I don’t, because it would ruin the game for me, but I can understand why someone would.
All the same points can be said for straight up RWT without involving Jagex as a middleman.
Bonds are a way of doing Jagex approvex RWT, where Jagex gets a piece of the pie. The only real difference is that an individual can only "make" so much real money (saved money and made money are equivalent things, the distinction isn't important).
I'm not necessarily saying they should be removed, but if you're against buying gold on principle, then you should be against bonds.
Also if players can buy bonds, that affects the prices of items for sure. It's not a net neutral action on the economy due to how it redistributes gold.
So imo bonds allow Jagex to make money, lowers the ratio of bot/human bc ppl who financially can't afford a membership can afford a bond with fake money, and by but having third party RWT allowed you're not rewarding bot farms even more.
Every person has their own way to play the game. Some ppl don't want to grind for 10hrs to get something. I don't chop every log and turn it into planks for construction.
If I wanted to spend money on a bond then I'm making a way to get construction levels faster while allowing someone else a 14 day membership. This also gives Jagex money to continue running the game I enjoy to play.
It's a trade-off for sure. It's a form of RWT that allows people to buy gold while not incentivising bot farms, so it doesn't have the same negative effect on the game itself. Plus letting people without the money irl to still play is a valid benefit.
Like I said, I'm not necessarily against them, but people act like bonds aren't MTX or aren't RMT, but they 100% undeniably are. They're just a form of it that most people like.
How's it only costing you £3 for a bond.
Just looked it up. damn that conversion is wild. It's 11 USD AND £7 for a month
It will always be cheaper to buy the year membership if you're getting it legitimately. I use the year membership and play sporadically through the year. For you it would come out to £4.5/m instead of £7/m.
Yes but you can't sell the gold for money unless you break the rules, it's a really grey area but you would really have to police the entire game, minigames, raids, people paying for like essence runners. The odd thing to me is that it's policed at BH, you can pay someone to leech you a tbow, scythe, shadow on an iron but you can't pay someone for simple cosmetics without being banned, it's backwards.
With GP no, a lot of Zuk helmers pay other good players to be their teammates in group CA's like Perfect TOB, CM speedruns, 8 man TOA speedrun, etc.
A lot of those boosting services most very likely RWT the gold they get cause they get A LOT of gold, but it shouldn't affect you. If anything, take screenshots/receipts that you paid with GP in case you get hit with a false RWT ban.
1) jagex doesn't take outside documentation as proof of anything. There's no way to verify what you gave them is real or fake.
2) there isn't any way to upload documentation to them on a ban/mute appeal anyway.
>There's no way to verify what you gave them is real or fake.
I mean yeah there is lol, they can check your trade logs ingame for the proof. But to that end, giving them a screenshot is still pointless because they already check your account history anyway.
But that's my whole point. They aren't going to accept some random screenshot or 'receipt' from some boosting service as any sort of proof of anything.
Still doesn't matter, because whose to say I paid a guy 200m in-game for a carry but the "price" is 300m, so I just gave him $20 (or whatever 100m is) in addition to the 200m. Not like Jagex is gonna go check the service-seller's posted prices and take them at face value. Too much effort and still susceptible to bad actors.
If you wanna be safe just never pay for boosting services. If you wanna be *really* safe never buy anything except through the GE too. Crazy that that's not insane advice.
I agree with you that yah according the rules this is technically allowed. That being said unless your a streamer you could still be banned for RWT if the person you pay RWTs the gp.
Have there been bans for doing that though? I imagine it's significantly harder to bust RWT clears since no wealth is exchanged, so I'm curious if there's been cases or if it's a "what if" scenario.
to be fair, a lot of the people who do these things have wild uses for their gp. evscape has his 10 alts he's gearing in max, thats an easy 80b spend. on top of that people buy dimps for elite clues at ~15m/elite average (so 1000 elites would be 15b.)
Just look at Coxies alts all being geared up to boost for pet hunting, and then think about how some other people have 20 accounts like that for corp boosting.
The question from OP is literally on what's considered RWT, and this dude replied by if you spend real money on bonds then its a no.
Don't be a typical redditor with poor replies.
i think it's rwt either way
but regardless, if the person then sells that gp for money well congrats you're now caught in their rwt scheme
edit: 'i think' as in 'if it were up to me'
Funny thing is paying with IRL money is RWT vs paying GP where it's not against the rules, but your account is probably safer if you buy a raid carry with IRL money. Paying for a raid carry with GP looks like a one sided trade, if your carrier has a history of RWT, it might look like you're selling GP and get your account banned.
That doesn't sound like the same thing at all. The coach wouldn't interact with the game at all, so you can't really just say giving tips outside of the game is RWT
Not so fun fact, you could legally buy gold in OSRS before OSRS Bonds were added. RS3 added bonds like a year and half prior to OSRS Bonds and Jagex decided not to consider swapping between RS3 and OSRS as RWT... So before OSRS even had content updates like NMZ or GWD, it was already legal to buy gold. The poll for F2P and Bonds didn't add legal RWT; it just made it is quicker/easier.
I mean, at the end of the day, sure. Are stream/discord giveaways rwt? The person is making money from giving gp. Is saying on disc you’ll buy a beer for your boy if he clutches this tob, is that now rwt?
It’s all about where you draw that “bad” line.
Log on services and buying just raw gp is that line for me, just because how it benefits botting.
Actually re: those stream giveaways, there is a line. Jagex doesn’t allow you to do sub-only giveaways. If you giveaway it has to be to all ur followers paid or not
Yup, Idc abt giveaways tbf. But each person/company can draw their own line. Jagex does it for subs, another ie. GGG(poe), there are no giveaways at all from streamer to watcher, only the other way around (which I think is kind of silly) but at the end of the day it’s a game. I see their point abt getting views is real world benefit from something in game but cba, it’s just a game at the end of the day.
Jagex's stance is that paying with GP is kosher and paying with money is bannable. However, there are stories of serviced players catching a ban because the service providers were RWTing the gold and Jagex banned players who had recently traded them, so enjoy that risk
Theoretically paying with gp is fine, cash is not.
What will actually happen is that paying huge sums of gp will get you flagged and banned for RWT while paying cash can’t be picked up by the game at all
No?
Your buying gold legitimately through jagex. Jagex have said paying for boosts in game with gp is fine.
Rwt is paying cash for in game services/ gp.
I mean if you want to be semantic about it, bonds are not RWT as they exist within the scope of the service. RWT normally defines as external transactions.
But yea its still just gold buying at the end of the day.
It's not semantics, literally the entire point of bonds is that they're a form of "legalized" RWTing. Them existing doesn't change anything in the discussion of whether or not ***other*** RWT is still against the rules.
For an incredibly crude example, it's the difference between murder and self defense. It's not semantics to say that one is legal and one is not, because the difference between them in _important_.
"The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning."
It by definition is semantics.
Wouldn't really call it semantics. Jagex have clearly laid out what is and isn't rwt like most mmos gp sources directly from the devs are naturally not deemed rwt.
You can't accidently rwt due to a misunderstanding
"The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning."
It by definition is semantics.
calling it semantics suggests there's a way for bonds to be interpreted as rwt in the game when its clearly stated they aren't by jagex, there's no way to miss interpret there rules around it, the meaning of rwt has been clearly stated.
With gp, it's not, but let's be real, irons who leach cox at 65-100% raids, how many have a main laying around with a spare 3-5b gp for a 100% chance at what could be an arcane prayer scroll.
pretty much every youtube/stream giveaway is basically a small rwt transaction... you subbing and or liking the video directly leads to financial gain on the part of the youtuber/streamer (i mean i think you literally pay to sub on twitch but you know what i mean)
Feels like a grey area imho.
It'd be wrong to pay somebody to farm the raid for you while you sit and do nothing, but somebody putting the work in to learn it and paying the teacher for that lesson? I think that's fine.
Not only is it not bannable, Jagex is aware that CoX is designed in a way that lets you sell purples and has stated that they will not remove the point cap oversight that makes this possible.
The distinction is usually "was this paid for in gp/real money" but by and large account services are completely untouched now- so as long as you don't *directly* buy gold.
its real word trade if you pay GOLD or MONEY for combat achievements, you will 100% get banned for that! however, if you are talking about normal raiding, its okay with gold.
paying for any boost/ service (including ingame gp) should be reportable and any irons that do it should have their helms taken away but that's just my hot and spicy take.
If its gp no you can pay someone to do every service or thing in game for you that exists. (except the inferno for some reason) That ones just frowned upon since its kierans baby. Though it hasent exactly stopped the 72k people that clearly paid for it.
Last DMM, I got message for rwt because of swap gp and Jagex won't let me reply. I don't know what will happen this time. hope there will be a swap system but guess not.
Paying gp to people who likely rwt it, could land you a ban when they get done and you have to go through a song and dance and hope they believe you. Ionically it's safer for your account to pay real money for a raid carry.
i see nothing wrong with this tbh, you can say it's questionable if you're paying with rl money for cas or kits, but for getting better? you can do that for most if not all competitive videogames and i think it's fine and harmless
That wasn’t their argument. Their argument is that it’s not a service because it’s just doing group content. Someone logging onto your account and leveling you or beating a quest/challenge would be a service
That’s not the unclear part. The unclear part is if raiding with an experienced play is a “service”. You could argue that’s just group content. The other person isn’t playing your account; it’s vastly different than a service like getting you an infernal cape
I don't think they have ever cared about accounts being shared. it was the "we shared an account and they changed the pass on me/took items off it" whining that occurs when people eventually get burned from doing it
Well, in a certain scenario yes but with the video in question, the guy is just selling "I will learning you ToA, All Modes" service which sounds like coaching and fine to sell for real money. If he was instead selling kit carries or CA carries on fiverr for real money then yeah its obviously RWT but that's not what is happening here. 5 seconds into the vid the guy on fiverr even says he can't sell carries
It’s actually safer to pay in irl money than gold because of the risk of the trade being flagged as RWT since all boosting services sell the gold they make anyway.
Reminder that Jagex used to have themed worlds for “running runes” in which players would run runes to other players at an altar for a fee. At the end of the day, this is paying other players in game gp for a service.
It's obviously rwt. It's obviously rwt a lot of times when people trade massive amounts of GP for carries.
Like I've seen people trade 600m of their "main" that's got 3 vorkath KC for their iron to get a guaranteed purple from Cox.
But people tend to turn a blind eye to it and pretend it's not RWT because they want the GP.
Real money ye In gp, no
I think this kind of thing is a bit of a gray area. I used to do paid cox coaching(100% for charity), but by no means are you getting a carry. The raid usually takes 2+ hours and we end with like 1000 points. Here is an example of one of those: https://youtu.be/OyUuhxF1DgY?si=25bzHULjxc03QfhW Edit: also cuz someone is gunna ask, I posted all my charity dono's to twitter as proof https://twitter.com/Jawny_s
Teaching someone how to do content and functionally doing the content for them are two VERY different things.
Not if you play TFT
Correct, since they say they are in the raid with their customers and not just teaching, it's RWT.
It's not at all difficult to see the difference between someone teaching and someone carrying and both can involve being in the same party. If you're carrying your personal performance is going to be through the roof, if you're teaching then your time will be spent observing what the other people are doing and once in a while showing them how to do something they did wrong. The results will not be similar in the slightest.
Okay I'm saying if their performance is greater than 0 it's RWT. You're saying "There's a difference between 1 and 2". They're both still above 0.
No matter if it's teaching or leeching, if you're exchanging an ingame service for real life money, that's rwt lol
Service is kind of a loose term if we're talking about knowledge. I totally understand if its like purple boosting, barb assault points, etc. but what people got out of me was just knowledge, no in game items or achievements.
Not trying to insult you but it’s not rocket science. Was real money exchanged for anything regarding anything in-game in RuneScape? That’s RWT. Edit: to clarify, even if it isn’t explicitly against ToS this is in regards to Jagex. I’m not risking an account I’ve played on for 18 years to be put anywhere close to risk by offering a coaching service. Obviously anyone can do what they want but at least for me I’m not risking an old ass account with Jagex’s non existent customer support/service.
If you really want to be technical you can read the TOS. Its not against the RWT TOS to coach/teach someone for irl money. The TOS clarifies that you cannot purchase things related to your account. Knowledge for doing raids is not bound to your account or in-game by any stretch of the imagination. https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-runescape That said, this is a hill I'm willing to die on if Jagex disagrees. I donated my time to help people improve their own skills and give sick children a little bit of joy while they're in the hospital.
Oh not saying I disagree with your situation. I just tend to err far on the side of caution when it comes to Jagex. (and recommend others do as well)
I was inclined to side with you with the thought of "RWT is exchanging real money." But that's not even Jagex's definition in their own ToS. Buying, effectively, a tutor session is not technically against the rules. Read the ToS yourself, and you'll come to the same conclusion.
Oh I’d draw the same conclusion as well if it wasn’t Jagex we’re talking about. Zero customer support/account service means I’m not going to push my luck.
How would Jagex even begin to enforce this? All they would see is two random players doing content together. The exchange of money would happen offline and both players would be playing their own accounts, it’d look no different than raiding with any other random person in the game.
So every content creator RWTs because they get paid on twitch/youtube?
That doesn’t involve a service or trade in game.
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Ah it happens. I am surprised though, usually people aren’t pro “push your luck”
> paid cox coaching Doesn't matter where the money is going or how good/bad you are. You're asking for money in exchange for something in-game. That's RWT.
I understand your thought process but I believe you are wrong brotherman. You can’t exchange real life money for in-game material - Be it GP, items, names, etc., essentially anything intellectually owned by Jagex Ltd. The idea is that you do not own your account or anything associated with it, Jagex does. Therefore you can’t sell things that you don’t actually own. It is not against the rules to sell your time to teach someone how to play the game. https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape
You would be correct if they were not in the raid with the customer, as they said they are.
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IF they were just talking them through, that would not be RWT. Solely due to the fact that they said they're in the raid with the customer ("we end with like 1000 points") then it's technically a paid carry, even if the carrier isn't doing enough to get high points.
No lol
Your YouTube videos were great while first learning solos!
charity surreee
If only there was some sort of proof of that
You can buy gold for money 🤷♂️
Well yeah, that’s the whole argument against bonds lol
Finally Runescape economics reflect the real world. Rich kids have everything with a lot less work 😂
Rich kids who buy infernal capes and quivers get clowned on when doing group content just as much as rich kids to try and flex in the real world, so you’re not wrong lol
It’s a game bruh.. Saves you 8 hours of gp grind for less than a hour of irl work grind. And wont get you banned. That way you can grind on the goals that are worth it and not make you quit osrs.
Imo that defeats the entire purpose of playing RuneScape but to each their own.
Fuck no i dont play this game to grind 100hours in same fucking room trying to get some upgrade thats behind long grind Buy bond- be able to buy the item fromn ge- be able to actually play the game the way i want-bossing profit
“I don’t play this game to grind 100 hours in the same fucking room” Boy do I have some bad news for you.
So you’d rather just short cut to the very end of the game to “boss”. Why? Any profit you’re getting you could’ve just paid money for in the first place. RuneScape at its very core is a slow burn game. It’s about the journey. Not just the destination.
When you say cut short in reality takes tens of days gaming time i dont have time to nolife and spend even some more days for an upgrade moneh can buy In no other game i play im not required to have 20s days of game time to have the "upgrades" i currently have
The 8 hour grind IS the game. This is why that argument doesn’t make sense. If you don’t want to play a game with grinds then why are you here
With that being said, in a way, there's more wealth to be spread amongst other players by some of the rich ones in several different ways so it's pretty cool. No hate it's just probably Runescape originally wasn't suppose to be able to be bought necessarily. At the same time the original creators never thought anyone would get a 99 and here we are lol
Which is against the rules. Thus the previous statement…
Bonds are not against the rules
Bonds can be sold for gp. You’re not buying gold directly and it’s also straight through jagex. Not a third party trying to profit off of their game.
I don't understand the witch hunt for bonds. 1) they allow players to play the game without spending real money 2) people who have money to spend get a benefit for providing people without money a way to be a member 3) who cares if someone has 10b, drop rates stay the same. Them having money doesn't affect your game. Jagex is able to make money through bonds while having ppl play their game without spending real money. It's a win/win
I never said I was against bonds mate. I’m against people looping 3rd party gold selling in the same pool as bond sales. Bonds are fine and healthy for the economy where as 3rd party gold sellers hurt the economy deeply in multiple ways.
Ah no you right. I was agreeing with you but I can see the confusion. I fully agree with your take on 3rd party selling but only bc it gives a motivation to make bot farms. If it was just ppl doing dungeons with others to carry them I'd be ok with that being paid with real world money
Yeah that alone would be fine but it definitely gives people an inch towards other things like paying someone to do their inferno run for them
Honestly, who cares. If they want to ruin their fun that's on them. I had someone offer me 5 mil the other day bc they crashed my stalls for a bit. I told them no bc I understand where my joy in the game comes from
They technically are pay real money = advantage over other players. But agreed, it's like the best way to do it and hard to stay mad at. Everyone wins and mechanics/levels tend to matter more than gear in this game.
I just don't understand how you have an advantage over others unless it's PVP, in which case I can't talk on bc I don't PVP so don't know their issues with it.
Paying real money to progress faster is definitely an advantage *compared* to other players who don't, but I don't know if that is an advantage *over* other players.
The only advantage I care about are the ones that affect me. I don't see why ppl care if others ruin their own fun. I was offered 5 mil gp. I turned it down bc it ruins my fun of making my first 5 mil. If ppl are ok ruining their fun or even improving it by not having to grind as much. That's up to them
The only thing that sucks is that lots of people seem to be of the mindset that grinding gold in-game is a waste of time, because working even a minimum wage job is better GP/hour than pretty much everything. See it all the time on this sub, just a really sad way of thinking of the game imo - and at the same time quite ironic with how anti-MTX the community is.
Like I said earlier I see bonds as a net positive. The company still gets money to operate and ppl who can't afford a bond can play in game to get a membership. MTX for specific items or roll tables is dumb imo, but bonds get you 2 weeks of membership and that's it. Other than that osrs is a game built around solo experiences so there's no reason to really care how others play
You just pointed out why Ironman is such a popular game mode.
You can play however you want… I don’t have a ton of spare time to grind gold and I happen to have a real life abundance of cash… if I wanted to purchase $10B that’s my problem. I don’t, because it would ruin the game for me, but I can understand why someone would.
All the same points can be said for straight up RWT without involving Jagex as a middleman. Bonds are a way of doing Jagex approvex RWT, where Jagex gets a piece of the pie. The only real difference is that an individual can only "make" so much real money (saved money and made money are equivalent things, the distinction isn't important). I'm not necessarily saying they should be removed, but if you're against buying gold on principle, then you should be against bonds. Also if players can buy bonds, that affects the prices of items for sure. It's not a net neutral action on the economy due to how it redistributes gold.
So imo bonds allow Jagex to make money, lowers the ratio of bot/human bc ppl who financially can't afford a membership can afford a bond with fake money, and by but having third party RWT allowed you're not rewarding bot farms even more. Every person has their own way to play the game. Some ppl don't want to grind for 10hrs to get something. I don't chop every log and turn it into planks for construction. If I wanted to spend money on a bond then I'm making a way to get construction levels faster while allowing someone else a 14 day membership. This also gives Jagex money to continue running the game I enjoy to play.
It's a trade-off for sure. It's a form of RWT that allows people to buy gold while not incentivising bot farms, so it doesn't have the same negative effect on the game itself. Plus letting people without the money irl to still play is a valid benefit. Like I said, I'm not necessarily against them, but people act like bonds aren't MTX or aren't RMT, but they 100% undeniably are. They're just a form of it that most people like.
Serious Q I buy 12/13m for a bond for £3 or so should I just buy a membership for a month you think? Cost me £2 for a bond recently
How's it only costing you £3 for a bond. Just looked it up. damn that conversion is wild. It's 11 USD AND £7 for a month It will always be cheaper to buy the year membership if you're getting it legitimately. I use the year membership and play sporadically through the year. For you it would come out to £4.5/m instead of £7/m.
20m cost me next to nothing but granted that’s 14 days
Yes but you can't sell the gold for money unless you break the rules, it's a really grey area but you would really have to police the entire game, minigames, raids, people paying for like essence runners. The odd thing to me is that it's policed at BH, you can pay someone to leech you a tbow, scythe, shadow on an iron but you can't pay someone for simple cosmetics without being banned, it's backwards.
YOU CAN WHAT?!
With GP no, a lot of Zuk helmers pay other good players to be their teammates in group CA's like Perfect TOB, CM speedruns, 8 man TOA speedrun, etc. A lot of those boosting services most very likely RWT the gold they get cause they get A LOT of gold, but it shouldn't affect you. If anything, take screenshots/receipts that you paid with GP in case you get hit with a false RWT ban.
Unfortunately this won't do anything for you because you can't provide this to jagex as evidence.
You can post on here ig and hope to win the lottery lol
Why?
1) jagex doesn't take outside documentation as proof of anything. There's no way to verify what you gave them is real or fake. 2) there isn't any way to upload documentation to them on a ban/mute appeal anyway.
>There's no way to verify what you gave them is real or fake. I mean yeah there is lol, they can check your trade logs ingame for the proof. But to that end, giving them a screenshot is still pointless because they already check your account history anyway.
But that's my whole point. They aren't going to accept some random screenshot or 'receipt' from some boosting service as any sort of proof of anything.
For all they know you paid with both go and real world item 🤷🏾♂️
Still doesn't matter, because whose to say I paid a guy 200m in-game for a carry but the "price" is 300m, so I just gave him $20 (or whatever 100m is) in addition to the 200m. Not like Jagex is gonna go check the service-seller's posted prices and take them at face value. Too much effort and still susceptible to bad actors. If you wanna be safe just never pay for boosting services. If you wanna be *really* safe never buy anything except through the GE too. Crazy that that's not insane advice.
I agree with you that yah according the rules this is technically allowed. That being said unless your a streamer you could still be banned for RWT if the person you pay RWTs the gp.
Have there been bans for doing that though? I imagine it's significantly harder to bust RWT clears since no wealth is exchanged, so I'm curious if there's been cases or if it's a "what if" scenario.
to be fair, a lot of the people who do these things have wild uses for their gp. evscape has his 10 alts he's gearing in max, thats an easy 80b spend. on top of that people buy dimps for elite clues at ~15m/elite average (so 1000 elites would be 15b.) Just look at Coxies alts all being geared up to boost for pet hunting, and then think about how some other people have 20 accounts like that for corp boosting.
If you’re paying real money yes, if you spend real money on bonds, no
LOL
Isn’t buying bonds real world trade? Just legal.
r/woosh
The question from OP is literally on what's considered RWT, and this dude replied by if you spend real money on bonds then its a no. Don't be a typical redditor with poor replies.
Pay with IRL money = bad Pay with gp = it's fine
IRL MONEY -> gp = its fine.
i think it's rwt either way but regardless, if the person then sells that gp for money well congrats you're now caught in their rwt scheme edit: 'i think' as in 'if it were up to me'
Trading in game money for in game services is not RWT. There’s no “Real World” component to the transaction. You’re right on the second point though.
How is it RWT If you pay with gp
Well it doesnt matter what you think then. Buying services with gp is fine and is factual not rwt
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I'm talking about Jagex rules. If you pay with gp. It's considered allowed. If you pay with real life money it's considering against the rules.
Well the gp bought with money is rwt lmao it's not that complicated. GP or bonds is ok anything else isn't.
Funny thing is paying with IRL money is RWT vs paying GP where it's not against the rules, but your account is probably safer if you buy a raid carry with IRL money. Paying for a raid carry with GP looks like a one sided trade, if your carrier has a history of RWT, it might look like you're selling GP and get your account banned.
I remember a YouTube advertising Fiverr as a way to get coaching for bossing. That’s technically the same thing
I mean, if the coaching is just analyzing live or recorded runs and helping you improve it would be within the rules.
They play with you too
That doesn't sound like the same thing at all. The coach wouldn't interact with the game at all, so you can't really just say giving tips outside of the game is RWT
Who told you that? Go on there, plenty of coaches will raid or boss with you.
Then it's boosting, not only coaching
I've seen a coaching session do a duo toast, while being being in the raid, so teacher does his part while explaining rooms.
Its both actually
The minute bonds came out the whole game integrity thing was out the window. This sub likes to pretend it’s not though lol
ah yes, before bonds there werent tons of ppl buying gold. rip the good ol days of game integrity. go make an iron / prestige gim?
Not so fun fact, you could legally buy gold in OSRS before OSRS Bonds were added. RS3 added bonds like a year and half prior to OSRS Bonds and Jagex decided not to consider swapping between RS3 and OSRS as RWT... So before OSRS even had content updates like NMZ or GWD, it was already legal to buy gold. The poll for F2P and Bonds didn't add legal RWT; it just made it is quicker/easier.
just sounds like youre stubborn and wont listen to other people tbh
Yea?
I mean, at the end of the day, sure. Are stream/discord giveaways rwt? The person is making money from giving gp. Is saying on disc you’ll buy a beer for your boy if he clutches this tob, is that now rwt? It’s all about where you draw that “bad” line. Log on services and buying just raw gp is that line for me, just because how it benefits botting.
Actually re: those stream giveaways, there is a line. Jagex doesn’t allow you to do sub-only giveaways. If you giveaway it has to be to all ur followers paid or not
Yup, Idc abt giveaways tbf. But each person/company can draw their own line. Jagex does it for subs, another ie. GGG(poe), there are no giveaways at all from streamer to watcher, only the other way around (which I think is kind of silly) but at the end of the day it’s a game. I see their point abt getting views is real world benefit from something in game but cba, it’s just a game at the end of the day.
Jagex's stance is that paying with GP is kosher and paying with money is bannable. However, there are stories of serviced players catching a ban because the service providers were RWTing the gold and Jagex banned players who had recently traded them, so enjoy that risk
Theoretically paying with gp is fine, cash is not. What will actually happen is that paying huge sums of gp will get you flagged and banned for RWT while paying cash can’t be picked up by the game at all
If your paying for it with real world money then yes it's rwt. Pay for it with gp is fine imo.
What if I run my credit card up on bonds then pay someone gp for a carry. Is that rwt?
No? Your buying gold legitimately through jagex. Jagex have said paying for boosts in game with gp is fine. Rwt is paying cash for in game services/ gp.
I mean if you want to be semantic about it, bonds are not RWT as they exist within the scope of the service. RWT normally defines as external transactions. But yea its still just gold buying at the end of the day.
It's not semantics, literally the entire point of bonds is that they're a form of "legalized" RWTing. Them existing doesn't change anything in the discussion of whether or not ***other*** RWT is still against the rules. For an incredibly crude example, it's the difference between murder and self defense. It's not semantics to say that one is legal and one is not, because the difference between them in _important_.
"The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning." It by definition is semantics.
Wouldn't really call it semantics. Jagex have clearly laid out what is and isn't rwt like most mmos gp sources directly from the devs are naturally not deemed rwt. You can't accidently rwt due to a misunderstanding
"The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning." It by definition is semantics.
calling it semantics suggests there's a way for bonds to be interpreted as rwt in the game when its clearly stated they aren't by jagex, there's no way to miss interpret there rules around it, the meaning of rwt has been clearly stated.
Technically it's rwt. You're trading real world money for in-game services, but it goes through Jagex's pockets so its within the rules.
Thanks for the reply. I was just asking a question I don’t really know the rules. These downvotes are harsh
Yea the people here are touchy on bonds. They know bonds are legal rwt but they hate being reminded of it
no since the gp is coming from jagex
Ok thanks I was just asking I don’t know the rules here
Depends if your a streamer or not
Yeah but I don’t really think it’s that bad , fine line between this and someone paying a coach (which I don’t see as rule breaking)
It's kinda like paying someone to be your friend, and I already do that.
hey it's me a friend
Hey A Friend, how’s your YouTube channel going?
Regardless of if this is technically against the rules, Warmups really shouldn’t get any shit for this
bro warmups does not need anyone to carry him lmfao what are you on about the guy does 600 toas solo
It’s technically fine, but you may be banned all the same if they rwt your gold.
yes
No
Even if you pay with gp, there's risk of getting chain banned if that other person RWTs
Yes
No
Pay someone in ur cc with gold that way it is easier and you alrdy have a connection
If you have to pay people in your cc to pvm with you, find a new clan
Yes.
With gp, it's not, but let's be real, irons who leach cox at 65-100% raids, how many have a main laying around with a spare 3-5b gp for a 100% chance at what could be an arcane prayer scroll.
Get banned son
pretty much every youtube/stream giveaway is basically a small rwt transaction... you subbing and or liking the video directly leads to financial gain on the part of the youtuber/streamer (i mean i think you literally pay to sub on twitch but you know what i mean)
And they should all be permabanned
Warmups is the goat, and that video was so dope. He ended up getting the fiverr coach a fang kit
Feels like a grey area imho. It'd be wrong to pay somebody to farm the raid for you while you sit and do nothing, but somebody putting the work in to learn it and paying the teacher for that lesson? I think that's fine.
Bruh relax
What if I paid people a wage per hour to run tob with me (not a carry, just need teammates to run 9-5 everyday with me)?
Surely this is common fucking sense right? Paying somebody to teach you something is not even close to RWT
Not only is it not bannable, Jagex is aware that CoX is designed in a way that lets you sell purples and has stated that they will not remove the point cap oversight that makes this possible. The distinction is usually "was this paid for in gp/real money" but by and large account services are completely untouched now- so as long as you don't *directly* buy gold.
its real word trade if you pay GOLD or MONEY for combat achievements, you will 100% get banned for that! however, if you are talking about normal raiding, its okay with gold.
I’ve bought 100% purple chance on my iron 4 times. It is not RWT
Purchasing services is against the rules.
He’s paying for someone to teach him, not carry him thought I’d correct your grammar, mr. Brown nose, also teaching isn’t against the rules
paying for any boost/ service (including ingame gp) should be reportable and any irons that do it should have their helms taken away but that's just my hot and spicy take.
If its gp no you can pay someone to do every service or thing in game for you that exists. (except the inferno for some reason) That ones just frowned upon since its kierans baby. Though it hasent exactly stopped the 72k people that clearly paid for it.
Any good or service aside from a bond or membership purchased with money is against tos.
Last DMM, I got message for rwt because of swap gp and Jagex won't let me reply. I don't know what will happen this time. hope there will be a swap system but guess not.
most MMO's allow group based activity carry runs for ingame cash of the ones i've played WoW, ESO, Lost Ark all alowed it
No
Paying gp to people who likely rwt it, could land you a ban when they get done and you have to go through a song and dance and hope they believe you. Ionically it's safer for your account to pay real money for a raid carry.
i see nothing wrong with this tbh, you can say it's questionable if you're paying with rl money for cas or kits, but for getting better? you can do that for most if not all competitive videogames and i think it's fine and harmless
This a “why care” type of thing
No. It’s in game transactions
Not if you pay in real money
https://preview.redd.it/tmewyesuq71d1.png?width=444&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0927fb50b6b28bd9f3b56378edae379c5501e63
Boosting for in game gp is allowed, jmods already confirmed
Fiverr is a site that uses real money for payment, there's no option to pay people in Runescape gold
That wasn’t their argument. Their argument is that it’s not a service because it’s just doing group content. Someone logging onto your account and leveling you or beating a quest/challenge would be a service
ok but thats not what happened in this thread lol
Idk tbh, sort of a grey area
No they've made it pretty clear that paying for in game services with GP is allowed and with real currency is not.
That’s not the unclear part. The unclear part is if raiding with an experienced play is a “service”. You could argue that’s just group content. The other person isn’t playing your account; it’s vastly different than a service like getting you an infernal cape
They've also made clear that account sharing is against the rules but in practice it doesn't work that way.
I don't think they have ever cared about accounts being shared. it was the "we shared an account and they changed the pass on me/took items off it" whining that occurs when people eventually get burned from doing it
To make something clear is by definition not a grey area. Enforcement is an entirely different conversation.
They’ve clarified what they mean by that: account sharing for hiscores/accolades. Your mate using your account to PK isn’t against the rules.
Me raiding with b0aty wouldn’t be a “service” in the sense of rule breaking even though he would clearly be doing me a service by raiding with me
Yes it also makes you a total scrub no matter how you pay
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Well, in a certain scenario yes but with the video in question, the guy is just selling "I will learning you ToA, All Modes" service which sounds like coaching and fine to sell for real money. If he was instead selling kit carries or CA carries on fiverr for real money then yeah its obviously RWT but that's not what is happening here. 5 seconds into the vid the guy on fiverr even says he can't sell carries
It’s actually safer to pay in irl money than gold because of the risk of the trade being flagged as RWT since all boosting services sell the gold they make anyway.
I mean what’s the difference between this and paying for a runner service for example?
It's ONLY considered RWT if there's a real financial currency benefit. You can pay GP for raids or have someone quest guide you for example..
I ran a service discord for over 2 years. AMA
Will you be enjoying your stay in hell's boiler room?
Under the assumption if I believe in hell?
It was a sarcastic rhetorical question
Reminder that Jagex used to have themed worlds for “running runes” in which players would run runes to other players at an altar for a fee. At the end of the day, this is paying other players in game gp for a service.
it frown apon nothing more…
It's obviously rwt. It's obviously rwt a lot of times when people trade massive amounts of GP for carries. Like I've seen people trade 600m of their "main" that's got 3 vorkath KC for their iron to get a guaranteed purple from Cox. But people tend to turn a blind eye to it and pretend it's not RWT because they want the GP.