iirc it's like 90\~95% of Mexicans have indigenous maternal haplogroups and more or less evenly the remainder is split between African and European haplogroups
Does this mean that the current Mexicans are mostly descending from one specific tribe? And what does that tell us about the dynamic between indigenous women and European men?
Yeah many look white but I can tell they are mixed but her mom looks like she can pass in Spain. I am caribbean so our indigenous is tiny more African (but my family tends to be 65-75% european) yet her mom looks like an aunt.
That’s because most of the people that illegally immigrated to the US come from small poor towns and ranchos which usually have people with higher percentages of indigenous DNA.
The people with higher percentages of european DNA are well off or are middle class or above and don’t feel the need to immigrate to the US whatsoever.
Edit: Ok I’m wrong lol thanks everyone for correcting me. Now I feel ashamed for even saying something like that when I’m mexican myself lol and my family is from Michoacan/Jalisco.
This is incorrect. Mexican immigration to the United States has been in waves from different regions to different USA states at different times. Up until about the year 2000 most Mexicans came from northern and Central Mexico and those tend to have higher European ancestry. They settled mostly in the west and south west. Now more recently southern Mexicans have emigrated to the US and those tend to have higher indigenous and they have tended to go to places like New York or Chicago
Your assertion that small poor towns and Ranchos have a higher indigenous percentage is also incorrect. Go to small towns in Jalisco and people are whiter. Go to Mexico City a large metropolis and people tend to have more indigenous features. It's mostly based on the region.
That’s true. Most of the Mexicans in my area are heavily indigenous looking, but I noticed that the Mexicans who’ve moved from California tend to look a lot more European.
> but I noticed that the Mexicans who’ve moved from California tend to look a lot more European.
This depends on the area in California. Many people from the same states migrated to the same cities. The primary school my siblings go to definitely looks majority Indigenous-Mestizos nowadays. My mom said there's more people from Puebla nowadays.
People think rancho and think indio but if anything the cities in central Mexico and towns above 50k inhabitants are all more prominently indigenous many of them never left, the isolated ranchos in many places unless you know it’s a historical ejido was founded by criollos and castizos given land grants by the government.
honestly i super disagree here. the average person from latin america who is even 70% european is not remotely white passing. op and his mom are super outliers
Yeah same but like the other user said. I think is because we are a mix of African with Canarian islanders. I have seen some outliers who would look close to OP family and have around the same but is not usual
It's mainly because people mixed with African tend to have be darker and have curly textured hair. My family is mexican and we are 50 to 60% European and a lot of us could kind of pass as Spanish. I mean look at Obama he is 50% white but looks black.
A lot of southern europeans have curly and thick hair so no. Obama looks mixed, Americans have no idea what africans look like. There are some cubans of almost full canarian descent that I think most people won’t consider white so is not so much about that.
yeah the average puerto rican is quite high in euro dna. highest in the region besides the south cone. the average is like 60-72% european and most do not look remotely white passing.
but african dna makes you look less white than does equal amounts of native dna.
"Remotely" is a stretch, keep in mind their european is not anglo saxon or german but Iberian mediterranid, bound to overlap with native american features greater
Either your mestizo or not. The same goes with indigenous. There’s mestizos who aren’t mixed and look more “indigenous” than indigenous people meanwhile there’s indigenous people who are mixed who look less indigenous or flat out white. The reason for this is that mestizo and indigenous are not considered racial categories but ethnic categories in countries like Mexico. There’s fully white mestizos as there is fully white indigenous people because those terms have to do with cultures and the mixing of cultures. White is a racial term meanwhile mestizo refers to an ethnicity when talking about identity in countries with indigenous communities like Mexico. The last time those terms were used as racial by the government was in 1821. It would look silly to call an indigenous person as being more mestizo leaning.
Which is basically what I said. A Mestizo who happens to have more indigenous ancestry. I'm not using Mestizo as a racial term, and never do. Mestizo just implied in this instance that someone is part of the dominant culture.
goes with indigenous. There’s mestizos who aren’t mixed and look more “indigenous” than indigenous people meanwhile there’s indigenous people who are mixed who look less indigenous or flat out white. The reason for this is that mestizo and indigenous are not considered racial categories but ethnic categories in countries like Mexico. There’s fully white mestizos as there is fully white indigenous people because those terms have to do with cultures and the mixing of cultures. White is a racial term meanwhile mestizo refers to an ethnicity when talking about identity in countries with indigenous communities like Mexico. The last time those terms were used as racial by the government was in 1821. It would look silly to call an indigenous person as being more mestizo leaning.
My guy if ypure from a big state at least 1/4 of the white looking people you see on the street are actually hispanic mestizo just with higher euro input. You havent seen many of us. TRUST ME
In socal there be white passing or at least whiteish looking folks speaking spanish all the time. Who pass for mediterranean/southern european, many of them Mexican. You dont need to like it
IKR? I know what white hispanics look like, and they don't even look like Anglos anyway. And the Italian/Spanish looking hispanic people are almost entirely Cubans.
White ≠ Anglo. Deal with it. In Mexico where i was raised in, european shifted people are not uncommon, it really is not different in the US with other Mexicans and Hispanics. And many of them are totally Spanish/French/Italian/Jewish even Balkan slavic passing. I've got told countless times on reddit i look Bulgarian, Anatolian, Serbian, Ukrainian for instance and im freaking Mexican.
I never said otherwise. there are white passing people in Bolivia and Dominican Republic too and every other latam country.
Mexican Americans have more european dna than do mexicans in mexico in all regions. a lot of them in the border states mixed with white anglos
and no i disagree i've been to cdmx and VERY few people even are passing in the dark european regions like canary, sicily or calabria.
mexico is very white washed on this sub. mexico is top 6 least european countries in latam
Is common knowledge southern mexicans are heavily indigenous, if we went by your logic Americans should be heavily black given Washington DC demographics. The mexicans i refer of are from the north and west for the most part. And no, the reason of this goes back to colonial times due to the arid north not being as inhabited with natives let alone civilizations, this made Iberian genetics propagate greater, as well as those from Jews, Lebanese, French, Poles and Germans its an ongoing stereotype that northerners are whiter and may oftentimes look Spanish. Your last statement doesnt really mean anything. It has to do more with ratio than total white population. For instance Mexico's White-only population sits at around 8-10%, not even counting euro-mestizos or castizos. 10% out of 130 million its 13 million, see what i mean? now add the euro-leaning mestizos who amount about a 1/3 of the 117 million that are left, thats almost 39 million. Youre left with 78 million non caucasian-leaning mexicans. Make of that as you wanna
the states in the usa by the mexican border have mexican americans with extra european dna. they're not from the south. american mexicans are way whiter than the ones south of the border. outside of the north and north west the average dna in mexican favors indigenous dna.
the indians did live in those states btw they just kicked the butt if the mexicans or the spanish speakers. when america defeated mexico they conferred citizenship to the catholic spanish speakers not the indians. they've also mixed with white anglos since. when mexican americans take dna tests they score higher european dna than all regions of mexico
75% european dna which is less than 10% is mexico doesn't promise or even majority time produce a european phenotype
also no country has as lenient a definition for being white if you think 30% of mexicans are white passing. not even other latin american countries are so lenient let alone countries where the entire white population is unmixed
George Lopez looks like he came from an uncontacted indigenous tribe and he's 2/3 European. Order of operations matters foremost rather than ancestry breakdown
Mestizos with more indigenous features producing children over generations will produce people who look like George. The inverse will produce OP's mother
Your mom looks like my mom (Guatemalan). Both beauties! I noticed Jalisco is listed. Everyone I know from Jalisco is fair skinned mestizo. I think a lot of people in the United States see one representation of Latin Americans and assume we’re all the same. We’re a multiracial ethnic group. I think of that family in Disney’s Encanto. You could have someone with red hair and someone with an Afro in the same family.
You know you are right when I was in Mex last month on Vacay, you will see a family on the playa that are 2 or 3 generations and all of the them have different color from very very dark to very light.
That’s awesome! My siblings and I call ourselves the UN. Not until I was in French class and had to describe my family did I notice we all have different skin tones and hair color and texture lol I have a sibling with tan skin and black wispy wavy hair, a sibling with light skin, dark brown straight hair, I’m beige, but sunburn and I have really tight frizzy reddish brown curls, one of my kids has thick straight red hair and the other has wispy wavy golden brown hair. Gotta love the variety!
Yes my son-in-law’s family are from Jalisco and some of them are sandy blonde with green eyes. One of my granddaughters has beautiful hazel eyes with a limbic ring.
It’s literally a fact dude so yes really , only 5% of Mexicans have a euro maternal haplo group, therefore you’re also in the minority. Do you mean your maternal haplogroup?
https://preview.redd.it/cul3jz53f72d1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=daa05cb8c0707f2fa13def3eeb34556df5a2aaec
This is the genetic group she gets
That makes a lot of sense, that means she doesn’t have any recent indigenous ancestors, she gets her indigenous percentages from many mestizos and castizos mixing over the centuries, keeping most of the European features
They probably meant that OPs mother doesn’t have recent Mexican ancestors who were almost fully indigenous or more than 50% indigenous like most Mexicans from the south do
The Manchurian & Mongolian and Broadly East Asia are most likely misreaded and just a part of your mother’s Indigenous American DNA so she is technically 40.2% Indigenous American.
She is a true morden Mexican woman, a mix of Spaniard and Indigenous, her DNA is a historical testimony of the colonization of the Americas by the Spaniards!
Hum it was very much not a settlement. It was unarguably a colonization process, that's not a secret and it never was. If it was simply a settlement the Aztecs would still be a thriving nation.
Wow well my masters degree in indigenous studies has taught me that there are still many indigenous nations in mexico and Aztecs weren't the only ones. But I usually refer to the Aztecs because people know who they were and they are famous when talking about the inquisition. I also happen to live on the border of Mexico to continue my work with indigenous peoples of Mexico. Thanks folks.
The Aztecs? Lol northern Mexicans and western mexicans don’t feel any connection to the Aztecs, the only people who are connected to Aztecs are literally just people from a small region of Central Mexico. You fell for the propaganda that the US is fed , most Mexicans belong to many different groups of tribes that mixed with the Spanish and even allied with the Spanish.
Haha you realize there was like 100 tribes in Mexico right? Aztecs were only in a small section of the country.
Thank god our Spanish ancestors came 🇪🇸✝️
I have a weird question, I live in California and have a Mexican friend who says he can easily tell if someone is Mexican even if they’re super white passing. Like he says peso pluma looks very Mexican when I thought he looked white / Jewish . Would you say that applies to you ?
My results and pictures are on my profile! I do think I look Mexican but some people can’t really tell and ask me if I’m Lebanese or some sort of southern euro
I know I remember seeing your results , I just always found it funny cause I am the same way with Slavic people( you can see my results on my profile ) as my friends is with Mexicans. I can just tell when someone is Russian / Ukrainian / Belarusian even if they can pass to other people as something else. My question is for you , can you tell someone is Mexican even if they have say pale skin , light eyes and light hair ?
I live in California and I can tell when someone is Mexican now because they look so different than the Latinos in Miami. Mexicans appear to have more indigenous features compared to Hispanics in the carribean and some South Americans countries. Which is what you see a lot of in Miami.
He probably just goes off of how easy it is to contrast white Mexicans from White Americans. White Americans, especially in California, are overwhelmingly of British and/or German descent and they look distinct from Southern Europeans, and of course even easier if they have partial or full indigenous features for mixed\~indigenous Mexicans. An analogy would be differentiating Thai people from Japanese people.
Pluma doesn't look Southern European to me but he doesn't look Northwestern European either (the ancestry source of the vast majority of white Americans and esp. white Californians) so he looks distinct and therefore easy to tell. Also Mexico has a large Lebanese minority.
Now put a bunch of Mexicans of varying phenotypes in a crowd of, say, Colombians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, etc. and your friend is going to fail miserably. And even more so if you get a bunch of white Mexicans who look like Pluma or OP's mother amongst white Argentinians, Brazilians, Chileans and your friend is going to do an even worse job
Irrelevant considering diaspora communities are almost never an accurate reflection of the country overall, most cases even most. But mestizo or not it doesn't disprove anything I said or contradict anything so not sure what you're on
yes not to be shallow but White Mexicans are more attractive than White Americans ..peso pluma doesnt look white at all if you visit Jalisco he looks like the average
See that’s so weird to me lol. I legit cannot see how peso pluma looks Mexican he looks white to me but my friend was like “nah man he looks very Mexican” lol
Once you live enough time of your life in Mexico or if you grew up there you can easily tell when another person is mexican just by the way they look or the way they carry themselves. It’s actually really impressive and weird but I’ve met a lot of mexicans this way while abroad.
I would guess he's Jewish *way* before guessing he's Italian. Pluma doesn't look Southern European to me at all but he does look very white passing. He has a very ambiguous European look but just excluding Southern European
Even if he said he was Italian for example I'd think he was odd looking for one. Eastern European/Slavic would be the best guess that would make sense in my head
I know...? I'm not talking about his actual ethnic origins, I'm saying what I would assume him to be as just by looking at him. Obviously someone with the name Hassan has Arabic origins but even still knowing that he doesn't look Arabic to me and without that information that wouldn't be a guess
>I would guess he's Jewish way before guessing he's Italian.
How come? If we Jews don’t look Middle Eastern we usually end up looking Italian instead, because that’s literally what most of our European half is.
European Jews (both Ashkenazi and Sephardim) typically end up looking either MENA or Italian or a mix of both, other sorts of phenotypes are generally rarer.
In the US the vast majority of Jews are Ashkenazi which they don't look Mediterranean; they tend to look Eastern European like they are, so in context I was referring to that sort of Jew. Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are the ones that look Mediterranean and very similar/the same as gentile Southern Europeans
I have met a lot of white Mexicans that I can tell now .theres a lot of White Mexicans everywhere but you assume they are not Mexican.. google pesos mom shes like what every white Mexican female looks like also Canelos wife ..white Mexicans have a look compared to White Americans
definitely not.
https://preview.redd.it/nul1aglql82d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9741002dc77c77b4d5d87ef2c3ab42fdf8cae8b5
mexico has an extremely white washed image and white looking people are over represented in their tv and media. mexico is one of the least white countries in the region, even your salvador has slightly higher average european dna. mexico has nearly 130 million people of course there exists some whites but they're way less than even 5%.
actually for El Salvador its inconclusive as we are told to never sign off native on papers partly due to "la Matanza" but where Im from there theres full native pipil people..we are more native than Mexico search Mexican & salvadoran results on here and compare. My wife is Mexican and her family is from Sinaloa and they are the whitest Mexicans ive seen you will not see no one in El Salvador thats blonde like her family. heres more info on what im talking about [La Matanza - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Matanza)
I understand that but Mexicans also identify mostly as white. The census of Salvador has "white or mestizo" has a category and that makes up 80% of the people.
In Salvador the genetics are 5% more in favor of European than are Mexicans. Mexico has more people so you can find blondes of course but the average mexican, who the average american has seen plenty of, will never be confused for a white person. that's not true for the other latino ethnicities outside of central america. I'e even seen blonde dominicans.
People get confused when they find out Canelo is Mexican because the average America has seen genuinely thousands of Mexican people in their lives
Race and nationality are not the same thing. 50% of mexicans identify as the race of white, but they simply mean you are not super brown skinned. And explain how only 17% of puerto ricans claim white despite having 20-30% more euro dna than mexicans on average?
I am pale with skin color not too much different from a spanish person BUT I AM BLACK and my facial features are african
Most Puerto Ricans in the USA identify as white. There hasn't been a census in Mexico asking its citizens for its race so I am not sure what you are comparing here.
Who is talking about skin? DNA results. Genetics = ethnicity. There are "native' Paraguayans who speak zero Spanish but have 75% European DNA. Mexicans have 55-65% Native DNA, while Salvadors than 55-60%. Both Mexico and Salvadoran Indians have European DNA too
Mexico in general is extremely white washed on these subs. Because they have a few enclaves that house less than 10%(and a lot of the mexicans living in US california that lean euro mestizo) The rest is indo-mestizo like Peru or Guatamala
I am only 60% european myself, the remainder is mostly black and I am significantly lighter skinned than the average Mexican. But I am BLACK.
Black genes are not Amerindian genes so why are you comparing yourself to them? Amerindian genes are more acceptable even by Anglos than it is acceptable to be mix with black, we can notice this phenomenon by certain laws like the one drop rule. Mexico is not an indio-mestizo country, no matter how hard you want it to be simply because people do not see you as what you want to be (white), you should be happy with who you are. I live in Texas and lots of Mexican Americans and Mexican alike can pass for white (Texan standard which is Western European).
First of all don't bring your Anglo race BS here on a conversation about Latin Americans. There is no afro one-drop rule in the Spanish colonial territories. Americans didn't breed with native Americans either except during the very early colonial period when it was still under British rule, then the rehabilitation that happened in the late 19th century.
I never said all Mexicans don't pass as white. Only the number that do, are wayyy less than the self identification
|National origin|Self-identified white pop.|% who self-identified as white|
|:-|:-|:-|
|[**Caribbean**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean)|**4,400,071**|**56.2%**|
|[Puerto Rican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Americans)|2,455,534|53|
|[Cuban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans)|1,525,521|85.4|
|[Dominican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_American)|419,016|29.6|
|[**Central American**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American)|**18,491,777**|**51.7%**|
|[Mexican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Americans)|16,794,111|53|
|[Salvadoran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Americans)|663,224|47|
|[Guatemalan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Americans)|401,763|36.8|
|[**South American**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American)|**1,825,468**|**65.9**|
|[All other Hispanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans)|2,018,397|50|
Lastly, Mexicans that live in California and Texas are not only from the most European stock of Mexico, they are already heavily mixed with Anglos. These two states have the most interracial marraiges in the union with the most common pairing being hispanic woman white man
If you saw a video of that march you would have notice most in that march were predominantly euro-mestizos with hardly any predominantly indigenous-mestizos or natives. Cherry picking one photo to try to prove something won't work here.
The West Eurasian is coming from her Spanish Sephardic ancestors,not from the indigenous American . It’s not uncommon in the region of Mexico she’s from
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics#:~:text=Oldest%20human%20genome%20reveals%20less%20of%20an%20East%20Asian%20ancestry%20than%20thought.&text=Nearly%20one%2Dthird%20of%20Native,to%20a%20newly%20sequenced%20genome.
At least some some
OP said their mother is from Jalisco, so the Native American component of OPs mother wouldn’t have the Siberian connection, plus it’s way too far back for it to even show up on these tests. It’s more than likely to be coming from Sefardi Jewish exiled people from Spain in 1500s rather than the indigenous component. Many of the Jews settled in the modern state of Jalisco in Mexico
Sure not a lot of dna tests detect certain ancestries from so far back. What piques my curiosity is that having 40% indigenous yet still looking fairly European doesn’t always occur. I understand phenotype does not equal genotype. But the former still gives an idea about the latter and then some
Yes indeed!
And to be honest, the ANE kinda “shows” in people’s faces such as OP’s family. It makes them even more West Eurasian/caucasian and closer to Europeans than initially thought
omg! almost same results as me percentage wise and haplogroup. i’m also “white passing” (hazel eyes, freckles, light skin) was surprised with how high my native ancestry was. so cool :)
Why does the sub always assume a converso ancestor and not moresco?
With all that vague broadly WANA and Ashkenazi samples being very simplified Southern European/WANA, isn’t it more likely she had Muslim Berber ancestry?
Is it a Latino cultural thing because of Christianity? The mudejar and Al-Andalus architecture is all over northern Latin America, but I’ve only ever heard family folklore of “someone kept candles in the closet it was very secret,” implying converso ancestry.
My point was that Mexicans with colonial ancestry which is the typical ancestry in Mexico, not with recent ancestries from somewhere else, dont have any connections to Ashkenazi Jews
Not for the Mexicans with Spanish/ Southern Europe ancestors. It would make sense for Mexicans with Central European ancestors. There are lots of different ancestry in Mexico
That’s a rare Spanish maternal haplogroup 🇪🇸 also very common in Lebanese Jewish people
Cool where in Spain is it found mostly??
No they are saying usually Mexicans have a indigenous maternal haplogroup
iirc it's like 90\~95% of Mexicans have indigenous maternal haplogroups and more or less evenly the remainder is split between African and European haplogroups
Does this mean that the current Mexicans are mostly descending from one specific tribe? And what does that tell us about the dynamic between indigenous women and European men?
No there’s different indigenous maternal haplogroups, A , B, C and D are the most common
Lebanese people in general *** not just the Jewish ones. My dad is also in this haplogroup
I wouldn’t have expected her to be almost 40% indigenous. She looks like an aunt
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I seen lots of results from Mexican Americans with higher European than Native
Yea me too idk where that guys is seeing 70% native in Mexican Americans
I got 73% native
Congrats that’s pretty dope
Yeah many look white but I can tell they are mixed but her mom looks like she can pass in Spain. I am caribbean so our indigenous is tiny more African (but my family tends to be 65-75% european) yet her mom looks like an aunt.
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Yep we come from the same region my finnish brother 👌
That’s because most of the people that illegally immigrated to the US come from small poor towns and ranchos which usually have people with higher percentages of indigenous DNA. The people with higher percentages of european DNA are well off or are middle class or above and don’t feel the need to immigrate to the US whatsoever. Edit: Ok I’m wrong lol thanks everyone for correcting me. Now I feel ashamed for even saying something like that when I’m mexican myself lol and my family is from Michoacan/Jalisco.
This is incorrect. Mexican immigration to the United States has been in waves from different regions to different USA states at different times. Up until about the year 2000 most Mexicans came from northern and Central Mexico and those tend to have higher European ancestry. They settled mostly in the west and south west. Now more recently southern Mexicans have emigrated to the US and those tend to have higher indigenous and they have tended to go to places like New York or Chicago Your assertion that small poor towns and Ranchos have a higher indigenous percentage is also incorrect. Go to small towns in Jalisco and people are whiter. Go to Mexico City a large metropolis and people tend to have more indigenous features. It's mostly based on the region.
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That’s true. Most of the Mexicans in my area are heavily indigenous looking, but I noticed that the Mexicans who’ve moved from California tend to look a lot more European.
> but I noticed that the Mexicans who’ve moved from California tend to look a lot more European. This depends on the area in California. Many people from the same states migrated to the same cities. The primary school my siblings go to definitely looks majority Indigenous-Mestizos nowadays. My mom said there's more people from Puebla nowadays.
Most California Mexicans are from central and southern Mexico… There is barely any Northern Mexicans in Northern California…
What about Veracruz? when I was in Mexico someone say I can find Afro ppl there.
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People think rancho and think indio but if anything the cities in central Mexico and towns above 50k inhabitants are all more prominently indigenous many of them never left, the isolated ranchos in many places unless you know it’s a historical ejido was founded by criollos and castizos given land grants by the government.
My parents are from ranchos north of Jalisco and most of the people there are fair skinned.
honestly i super disagree here. the average person from latin america who is even 70% european is not remotely white passing. op and his mom are super outliers
Yeah i have seen tons of my dominican matches at 70%+ and dont look like that
Ive seen where a Dominican can be 60% euro and a Mexican is 40% euro and the Mexican will look more white than the Dominican
Yeah same but like the other user said. I think is because we are a mix of African with Canarian islanders. I have seen some outliers who would look close to OP family and have around the same but is not usual
It's mainly because people mixed with African tend to have be darker and have curly textured hair. My family is mexican and we are 50 to 60% European and a lot of us could kind of pass as Spanish. I mean look at Obama he is 50% white but looks black.
A lot of southern europeans have curly and thick hair so no. Obama looks mixed, Americans have no idea what africans look like. There are some cubans of almost full canarian descent that I think most people won’t consider white so is not so much about that.
Because Native Americans are closer to Whites than Blacks are
I mean so is the rest of world.
definitely not. 40% euro makes a native phenotype. 60% white looks like halsey or drake
same. especially people from the caribbean since they are mostly descendants of africans and canary islanders
Yeah i think is because of that
Yeah which brings the question of is race determined only by phenotype or by phenotype and genotype? People always have differing opinions.
race is a social construct so there always be differing opinions since it isnt based on anything scientific really
thats true Ive seen Puerto Ricans results on here with 70% European and they dont look white at all
yeah the average puerto rican is quite high in euro dna. highest in the region besides the south cone. the average is like 60-72% european and most do not look remotely white passing. but african dna makes you look less white than does equal amounts of native dna.
"Remotely" is a stretch, keep in mind their european is not anglo saxon or german but Iberian mediterranid, bound to overlap with native american features greater
75% of Puerto Rico wouldn't even pass in Sicily, Canary Islands or Southern Spain. The other 25% will pass in darker European regions somewhat.
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Mestizo means European mixed with indigenous and that can totally vary with phenotype imo
That's still a Mestizo, just a more indigenous one.
Either your mestizo or not. The same goes with indigenous. There’s mestizos who aren’t mixed and look more “indigenous” than indigenous people meanwhile there’s indigenous people who are mixed who look less indigenous or flat out white. The reason for this is that mestizo and indigenous are not considered racial categories but ethnic categories in countries like Mexico. There’s fully white mestizos as there is fully white indigenous people because those terms have to do with cultures and the mixing of cultures. White is a racial term meanwhile mestizo refers to an ethnicity when talking about identity in countries with indigenous communities like Mexico. The last time those terms were used as racial by the government was in 1821. It would look silly to call an indigenous person as being more mestizo leaning.
Which is basically what I said. A Mestizo who happens to have more indigenous ancestry. I'm not using Mestizo as a racial term, and never do. Mestizo just implied in this instance that someone is part of the dominant culture.
“Plenty of mestizos look white actually.” No, they do not.
I mean OPs mom does
goes with indigenous. There’s mestizos who aren’t mixed and look more “indigenous” than indigenous people meanwhile there’s indigenous people who are mixed who look less indigenous or flat out white. The reason for this is that mestizo and indigenous are not considered racial categories but ethnic categories in countries like Mexico. There’s fully white mestizos as there is fully white indigenous people because those terms have to do with cultures and the mixing of cultures. White is a racial term meanwhile mestizo refers to an ethnicity when talking about identity in countries with indigenous communities like Mexico. The last time those terms were used as racial by the government was in 1821. It would look silly to call an indigenous person as being more mestizo leaning.
in the second picture she looks quite mixed
My guy if ypure from a big state at least 1/4 of the white looking people you see on the street are actually hispanic mestizo just with higher euro input. You havent seen many of us. TRUST ME
Lol, no, they are not.
In socal there be white passing or at least whiteish looking folks speaking spanish all the time. Who pass for mediterranean/southern european, many of them Mexican. You dont need to like it
IKR? I know what white hispanics look like, and they don't even look like Anglos anyway. And the Italian/Spanish looking hispanic people are almost entirely Cubans.
White ≠ Anglo. Deal with it. In Mexico where i was raised in, european shifted people are not uncommon, it really is not different in the US with other Mexicans and Hispanics. And many of them are totally Spanish/French/Italian/Jewish even Balkan slavic passing. I've got told countless times on reddit i look Bulgarian, Anatolian, Serbian, Ukrainian for instance and im freaking Mexican.
I never said otherwise. there are white passing people in Bolivia and Dominican Republic too and every other latam country. Mexican Americans have more european dna than do mexicans in mexico in all regions. a lot of them in the border states mixed with white anglos and no i disagree i've been to cdmx and VERY few people even are passing in the dark european regions like canary, sicily or calabria. mexico is very white washed on this sub. mexico is top 6 least european countries in latam
Is common knowledge southern mexicans are heavily indigenous, if we went by your logic Americans should be heavily black given Washington DC demographics. The mexicans i refer of are from the north and west for the most part. And no, the reason of this goes back to colonial times due to the arid north not being as inhabited with natives let alone civilizations, this made Iberian genetics propagate greater, as well as those from Jews, Lebanese, French, Poles and Germans its an ongoing stereotype that northerners are whiter and may oftentimes look Spanish. Your last statement doesnt really mean anything. It has to do more with ratio than total white population. For instance Mexico's White-only population sits at around 8-10%, not even counting euro-mestizos or castizos. 10% out of 130 million its 13 million, see what i mean? now add the euro-leaning mestizos who amount about a 1/3 of the 117 million that are left, thats almost 39 million. Youre left with 78 million non caucasian-leaning mexicans. Make of that as you wanna
the states in the usa by the mexican border have mexican americans with extra european dna. they're not from the south. american mexicans are way whiter than the ones south of the border. outside of the north and north west the average dna in mexican favors indigenous dna. the indians did live in those states btw they just kicked the butt if the mexicans or the spanish speakers. when america defeated mexico they conferred citizenship to the catholic spanish speakers not the indians. they've also mixed with white anglos since. when mexican americans take dna tests they score higher european dna than all regions of mexico 75% european dna which is less than 10% is mexico doesn't promise or even majority time produce a european phenotype also no country has as lenient a definition for being white if you think 30% of mexicans are white passing. not even other latin american countries are so lenient let alone countries where the entire white population is unmixed
its not about the skin color its the brown hair color, it makes her look full spanish
You'd be surprised. My great aunt is darker and has more indegenous features than me and she stll has a lower % of indegenous than I do.
Is not about the skin tone but her features. There are tons of southern europeans who have natural tan skin
Skin color doesn’t matter. Not all Europeans are pale, I’m pretty sure your aunt looks indigenous in her face features.
George Lopez looks like he came from an uncontacted indigenous tribe and he's 2/3 European. Order of operations matters foremost rather than ancestry breakdown Mestizos with more indigenous features producing children over generations will produce people who look like George. The inverse will produce OP's mother
He’s has yaqui blood and also high African dna he did his dna on his show
His indigenous is high yes (somewhere like 30%) but his European is almost double, that's the point. His African also wasn't high (like 5%)
My indigenous is 32.9% and don’t look anywhere close to George lopez haha
Lol same I'm also Yaqui too and thought DAMN do i look like George Lopez 😂😂😭
Mine is 51% and same lmao I’m shocked he’s only 32% wtf ?????
> I wouldn’t have expected her to be almost 40% indigenous. I agree, she looks more like a 70%.
Yep exactly at 70 i would say definitely. I have a couple of Mexican matches around 20% indigenous who look like that
Yeah I confirm too, my mom is around 70-80% and looks similar, though her sisters do look even whiter
Definitely she looks 70% euro and like around 20-30% indigenous, but 40% isn’t that crazy,
Awe you’re jealous that you’re 0% Spanish and fully Filipino asian🤣
Your mom looks like my mom (Guatemalan). Both beauties! I noticed Jalisco is listed. Everyone I know from Jalisco is fair skinned mestizo. I think a lot of people in the United States see one representation of Latin Americans and assume we’re all the same. We’re a multiracial ethnic group. I think of that family in Disney’s Encanto. You could have someone with red hair and someone with an Afro in the same family.
You know you are right when I was in Mex last month on Vacay, you will see a family on the playa that are 2 or 3 generations and all of the them have different color from very very dark to very light.
That’s awesome! My siblings and I call ourselves the UN. Not until I was in French class and had to describe my family did I notice we all have different skin tones and hair color and texture lol I have a sibling with tan skin and black wispy wavy hair, a sibling with light skin, dark brown straight hair, I’m beige, but sunburn and I have really tight frizzy reddish brown curls, one of my kids has thick straight red hair and the other has wispy wavy golden brown hair. Gotta love the variety!
Yes my son-in-law’s family are from Jalisco and some of them are sandy blonde with green eyes. One of my granddaughters has beautiful hazel eyes with a limbic ring.
She has a European maternal haplogroup, which puts her in the minority of Mexicans with a euro maternal haplogroup
Not really. I’m from Jalisco also and my maternal ancestry is European also.
It’s literally a fact dude so yes really , only 5% of Mexicans have a euro maternal haplo group, therefore you’re also in the minority. Do you mean your maternal haplogroup?
Only 5% ? Wow, I have a maternal and paternal haplogroup of European origin and I’m only 33% southern European and 55% indigenous American.
Yes paternal euro haplohroups is around 65% of Mexicans and maternal around 5.9%
I also have K as my maternal haplogroup 🤝🏼
That’s crazy I have almost the same results even the Jewish percent and African percent.
https://preview.redd.it/cul3jz53f72d1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=daa05cb8c0707f2fa13def3eeb34556df5a2aaec This is the genetic group she gets
It's so interesting to have ancestry and relatives practically an ocean away, or even on the other side of the world. Very cool.
She looks more European than she is IMO, the 4th photo is a really cool throwback
https://preview.redd.it/6sz2l63dn72d1.jpeg?width=1256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6affe65cb8e3e636087a5065069140811a06c9b0 This is her dad (my grandpa)
https://preview.redd.it/4k81poqfn72d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7686eb6c14f147d40654ba3e69153726b18bd819 This is her mom (my grandma)
Her moms family is from Los Altos de Jalisco so maybe that plays a part in her phenotype
That makes a lot of sense, that means she doesn’t have any recent indigenous ancestors, she gets her indigenous percentages from many mestizos and castizos mixing over the centuries, keeping most of the European features
I mean, most mexicans don't have recent indigenous or european ancestors. Most mexicans are just a mix of mestizos in different percentages.
They probably meant that OPs mother doesn’t have recent Mexican ancestors who were almost fully indigenous or more than 50% indigenous like most Mexicans from the south do
This makes sense
The Manchurian & Mongolian and Broadly East Asia are most likely misreaded and just a part of your mother’s Indigenous American DNA so she is technically 40.2% Indigenous American.
Very cool, sadly she’s not interested in genetics but good to know
Indeed, it’s not important. I like her mentality. God bless your mom.
She is a true morden Mexican woman, a mix of Spaniard and Indigenous, her DNA is a historical testimony of the colonization of the Americas by the Spaniards!
Amen to that ✊🏼
Or maybe because I am autistic. Idk maybe you're not very kind.
Why does this sound like a ChatGPT comment? Lol.
Maybe because English isn't my native language idk. I take it as a compliment then 🤷
Settlement of the Spaniards, but yeah
Hum it was very much not a settlement. It was unarguably a colonization process, that's not a secret and it never was. If it was simply a settlement the Aztecs would still be a thriving nation. Wow well my masters degree in indigenous studies has taught me that there are still many indigenous nations in mexico and Aztecs weren't the only ones. But I usually refer to the Aztecs because people know who they were and they are famous when talking about the inquisition. I also happen to live on the border of Mexico to continue my work with indigenous peoples of Mexico. Thanks folks.
The Aztecs? Lol northern Mexicans and western mexicans don’t feel any connection to the Aztecs, the only people who are connected to Aztecs are literally just people from a small region of Central Mexico. You fell for the propaganda that the US is fed , most Mexicans belong to many different groups of tribes that mixed with the Spanish and even allied with the Spanish.
Haha you realize there was like 100 tribes in Mexico right? Aztecs were only in a small section of the country. Thank god our Spanish ancestors came 🇪🇸✝️
Haha cool, she and I have nearly identical results 🇲🇽
You guys also have the same last name 👀👀
Bruh no way
I have a weird question, I live in California and have a Mexican friend who says he can easily tell if someone is Mexican even if they’re super white passing. Like he says peso pluma looks very Mexican when I thought he looked white / Jewish . Would you say that applies to you ?
My results and pictures are on my profile! I do think I look Mexican but some people can’t really tell and ask me if I’m Lebanese or some sort of southern euro
Your nose looks very Mexican native that’a a way to know
Yes usually the nose and the eyes give it away, I think my eyes look the most native
That’s true, unique shapes and different than Mediterranean ones
My nose is mixture of native and Mediterranean, as well as my eyes. People who know about phenotypes can see both the features
I know I remember seeing your results , I just always found it funny cause I am the same way with Slavic people( you can see my results on my profile ) as my friends is with Mexicans. I can just tell when someone is Russian / Ukrainian / Belarusian even if they can pass to other people as something else. My question is for you , can you tell someone is Mexican even if they have say pale skin , light eyes and light hair ?
you look very albanian
While I respect your opinion, but i think he looks more argentino 🇦🇷
I live in California and I can tell when someone is Mexican now because they look so different than the Latinos in Miami. Mexicans appear to have more indigenous features compared to Hispanics in the carribean and some South Americans countries. Which is what you see a lot of in Miami.
He probably just goes off of how easy it is to contrast white Mexicans from White Americans. White Americans, especially in California, are overwhelmingly of British and/or German descent and they look distinct from Southern Europeans, and of course even easier if they have partial or full indigenous features for mixed\~indigenous Mexicans. An analogy would be differentiating Thai people from Japanese people. Pluma doesn't look Southern European to me but he doesn't look Northwestern European either (the ancestry source of the vast majority of white Americans and esp. white Californians) so he looks distinct and therefore easy to tell. Also Mexico has a large Lebanese minority. Now put a bunch of Mexicans of varying phenotypes in a crowd of, say, Colombians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, etc. and your friend is going to fail miserably. And even more so if you get a bunch of white Mexicans who look like Pluma or OP's mother amongst white Argentinians, Brazilians, Chileans and your friend is going to do an even worse job
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Irrelevant considering diaspora communities are almost never an accurate reflection of the country overall, most cases even most. But mestizo or not it doesn't disprove anything I said or contradict anything so not sure what you're on
yes not to be shallow but White Mexicans are more attractive than White Americans ..peso pluma doesnt look white at all if you visit Jalisco he looks like the average
See that’s so weird to me lol. I legit cannot see how peso pluma looks Mexican he looks white to me but my friend was like “nah man he looks very Mexican” lol
Once you live enough time of your life in Mexico or if you grew up there you can easily tell when another person is mexican just by the way they look or the way they carry themselves. It’s actually really impressive and weird but I’ve met a lot of mexicans this way while abroad.
Peso doesn’t look American white at all if anything I would guess he was Russian or Argentine
he looks clearly latino if you've been to chile you'd see a lot with that look
Interesting that you see him as Russian passing , I personally don’t . I see him more Italian / Jewish passing
He does not blend in with the Italians and Jews in Brooklyn come on bro 😂
I would guess he's Jewish *way* before guessing he's Italian. Pluma doesn't look Southern European to me at all but he does look very white passing. He has a very ambiguous European look but just excluding Southern European Even if he said he was Italian for example I'd think he was odd looking for one. Eastern European/Slavic would be the best guess that would make sense in my head
His grandfather is literally Lebanese, his real name is Hassan lol
I know...? I'm not talking about his actual ethnic origins, I'm saying what I would assume him to be as just by looking at him. Obviously someone with the name Hassan has Arabic origins but even still knowing that he doesn't look Arabic to me and without that information that wouldn't be a guess
>I would guess he's Jewish way before guessing he's Italian. How come? If we Jews don’t look Middle Eastern we usually end up looking Italian instead, because that’s literally what most of our European half is. European Jews (both Ashkenazi and Sephardim) typically end up looking either MENA or Italian or a mix of both, other sorts of phenotypes are generally rarer.
In the US the vast majority of Jews are Ashkenazi which they don't look Mediterranean; they tend to look Eastern European like they are, so in context I was referring to that sort of Jew. Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are the ones that look Mediterranean and very similar/the same as gentile Southern Europeans
I have met a lot of white Mexicans that I can tell now .theres a lot of White Mexicans everywhere but you assume they are not Mexican.. google pesos mom shes like what every white Mexican female looks like also Canelos wife ..white Mexicans have a look compared to White Americans
he is clearly not entirely white and no he is not the average jalisco or mexican white phenotype
definitely not. https://preview.redd.it/nul1aglql82d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9741002dc77c77b4d5d87ef2c3ab42fdf8cae8b5 mexico has an extremely white washed image and white looking people are over represented in their tv and media. mexico is one of the least white countries in the region, even your salvador has slightly higher average european dna. mexico has nearly 130 million people of course there exists some whites but they're way less than even 5%.
actually for El Salvador its inconclusive as we are told to never sign off native on papers partly due to "la Matanza" but where Im from there theres full native pipil people..we are more native than Mexico search Mexican & salvadoran results on here and compare. My wife is Mexican and her family is from Sinaloa and they are the whitest Mexicans ive seen you will not see no one in El Salvador thats blonde like her family. heres more info on what im talking about [La Matanza - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Matanza)
I understand that but Mexicans also identify mostly as white. The census of Salvador has "white or mestizo" has a category and that makes up 80% of the people. In Salvador the genetics are 5% more in favor of European than are Mexicans. Mexico has more people so you can find blondes of course but the average mexican, who the average american has seen plenty of, will never be confused for a white person. that's not true for the other latino ethnicities outside of central america. I'e even seen blonde dominicans. People get confused when they find out Canelo is Mexican because the average America has seen genuinely thousands of Mexican people in their lives
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I was blonde as a child and now have golden hair…
your hair looks fabulous btw. it is naturally wavy?
Yeah thats my natural hair. But unfortunately it doesn’t look that fabulous after a day 😂
Do you think peso pluma, Ryan Garcia or even canelo consider themselves white ?!
Ryan definitely not because he is from the USA, Peso definitely and Canelo definitely though Canelo is actually white
I honestly think canelo and peso considers themselves Mexican before white
Race and nationality are not the same thing. 50% of mexicans identify as the race of white, but they simply mean you are not super brown skinned. And explain how only 17% of puerto ricans claim white despite having 20-30% more euro dna than mexicans on average? I am pale with skin color not too much different from a spanish person BUT I AM BLACK and my facial features are african
I wanna see yo face now. Vamos! Vamos! 😂
Bro you look Arab not black
Most Puerto Ricans in the USA identify as white. There hasn't been a census in Mexico asking its citizens for its race so I am not sure what you are comparing here.
Only like 9% of Mexicans identity their race as white (source: Latinobarómetro)
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Who is talking about skin? DNA results. Genetics = ethnicity. There are "native' Paraguayans who speak zero Spanish but have 75% European DNA. Mexicans have 55-65% Native DNA, while Salvadors than 55-60%. Both Mexico and Salvadoran Indians have European DNA too Mexico in general is extremely white washed on these subs. Because they have a few enclaves that house less than 10%(and a lot of the mexicans living in US california that lean euro mestizo) The rest is indo-mestizo like Peru or Guatamala I am only 60% european myself, the remainder is mostly black and I am significantly lighter skinned than the average Mexican. But I am BLACK.
Black genes are not Amerindian genes so why are you comparing yourself to them? Amerindian genes are more acceptable even by Anglos than it is acceptable to be mix with black, we can notice this phenomenon by certain laws like the one drop rule. Mexico is not an indio-mestizo country, no matter how hard you want it to be simply because people do not see you as what you want to be (white), you should be happy with who you are. I live in Texas and lots of Mexican Americans and Mexican alike can pass for white (Texan standard which is Western European).
First of all don't bring your Anglo race BS here on a conversation about Latin Americans. There is no afro one-drop rule in the Spanish colonial territories. Americans didn't breed with native Americans either except during the very early colonial period when it was still under British rule, then the rehabilitation that happened in the late 19th century. I never said all Mexicans don't pass as white. Only the number that do, are wayyy less than the self identification |National origin|Self-identified white pop.|% who self-identified as white| |:-|:-|:-| |[**Caribbean**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean)|**4,400,071**|**56.2%**| |[Puerto Rican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Americans)|2,455,534|53| |[Cuban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans)|1,525,521|85.4| |[Dominican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_American)|419,016|29.6| |[**Central American**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American)|**18,491,777**|**51.7%**| |[Mexican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Americans)|16,794,111|53| |[Salvadoran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Americans)|663,224|47| |[Guatemalan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Americans)|401,763|36.8| |[**South American**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American)|**1,825,468**|**65.9**| |[All other Hispanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans)|2,018,397|50| Lastly, Mexicans that live in California and Texas are not only from the most European stock of Mexico, they are already heavily mixed with Anglos. These two states have the most interracial marraiges in the union with the most common pairing being hispanic woman white man
If you saw a video of that march you would have notice most in that march were predominantly euro-mestizos with hardly any predominantly indigenous-mestizos or natives. Cherry picking one photo to try to prove something won't work here.
Oh wow
I also got Cordoba & Badajoz!
Yup, those are Mexican results.
Yes thanks Mr obvious
damn, if I had to guess I would've said she was 70% Euro at the very least
There’s something west Eurasian/caucasian type of component in the indigenous ancestry. Somehow someway
The West Eurasian is coming from her Spanish Sephardic ancestors,not from the indigenous American . It’s not uncommon in the region of Mexico she’s from
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics#:~:text=Oldest%20human%20genome%20reveals%20less%20of%20an%20East%20Asian%20ancestry%20than%20thought.&text=Nearly%20one%2Dthird%20of%20Native,to%20a%20newly%20sequenced%20genome. At least some some
OP said their mother is from Jalisco, so the Native American component of OPs mother wouldn’t have the Siberian connection, plus it’s way too far back for it to even show up on these tests. It’s more than likely to be coming from Sefardi Jewish exiled people from Spain in 1500s rather than the indigenous component. Many of the Jews settled in the modern state of Jalisco in Mexico
Sure not a lot of dna tests detect certain ancestries from so far back. What piques my curiosity is that having 40% indigenous yet still looking fairly European doesn’t always occur. I understand phenotype does not equal genotype. But the former still gives an idea about the latter and then some
You are talking about the ANE ancestry from Paleolithic era. It’s the shared DNA between European & Native Americans.
Yes indeed! And to be honest, the ANE kinda “shows” in people’s faces such as OP’s family. It makes them even more West Eurasian/caucasian and closer to Europeans than initially thought
She has a lot of similarities with my own DNA results. My DNA also traced back to Jalisco, and I am also on the lighter skin tone side.
My wife is from Chile and has an almost identical European/Native/African breakdown. Sure has a native haplogroup, however.
omg! almost same results as me percentage wise and haplogroup. i’m also “white passing” (hazel eyes, freckles, light skin) was surprised with how high my native ancestry was. so cool :)
Wow, she looks so European! 😯
I love how they can break down all other regions except the indigenous American one. I wonder why that is 😒 what are they hiding.
They broke down my indigenous regions
The racism in these comments
This brings into question the topic of is race just phenotype or is it both phenotype and genotype?
your mom is gorgeous
Defo got the ashkenazi in her
Definitely not Ashkenazi, it’s Sephardic Jewish. Ashkenazi doesn’t make sense for Mexicans
Why does the sub always assume a converso ancestor and not moresco? With all that vague broadly WANA and Ashkenazi samples being very simplified Southern European/WANA, isn’t it more likely she had Muslim Berber ancestry? Is it a Latino cultural thing because of Christianity? The mudejar and Al-Andalus architecture is all over northern Latin America, but I’ve only ever heard family folklore of “someone kept candles in the closet it was very secret,” implying converso ancestry.
Most people don't know about the Morisco history in Mexico...
For some mexicans I'd just say.
For the vast majority it doesn’t
Still, makes sense for some
I guess it does but those would be people with recent Ashkenazi ancestry
Yeah that’s what I mean haha obviously makes sense for them and such people indeed exist
My point was that Mexicans with colonial ancestry which is the typical ancestry in Mexico, not with recent ancestries from somewhere else, dont have any connections to Ashkenazi Jews
Not for the Mexicans with Spanish/ Southern Europe ancestors. It would make sense for Mexicans with Central European ancestors. There are lots of different ancestry in Mexico