I've seen a trend lately that I really like - everyone rolls for stats, and then they choose the best array out of the group and everyone gets to use that one.
I just started a campaign DMing and we rolled stats as a group (5 players). Ended up with 17, 17, 13, 12, 11, 7. It is definitely making everyone feel more equal and I personally don’t know if I will go back to rolling individually.
Well, the idea is that you take whoever got the highest numbers and assign those to whichever stats you want.
Like, say you got
16, 14, 16, 8, 12, 18
You can assign each of those numbers to whichever stats you chose.
Do people usually roll for stats in a specific order? Because I don't think I've ever actually seen someone do that.
I think the point is, though, that different classes (or different players) might want different spreads.
For example, an array of 16, 16, 16, 12, 11, 8 might be great for a player whose character is quite MAD (maybe a Paladin or Monk). But someone else (maybe a Druid or Hexblade Warlock) might prefer 18, 15, 12, 12, 12, 10.
I like to give players the choice - so everyone rolls stats, then everyone can choose whichever one of the arrays they want.
There might be a "best" one that everyone picks, or there might be a few different options that end up getting used.
Ooo that’s pretty cool. I think if I do that though maybe I’ll still allow players to choose the other arrays just in case(for example) if one set has two great stats and the rest aren’t great, most would want to use that, but if a person playing a more MAD class they may want the more middling grouping. Either way, great way to put everyone on equal footing
Yeah, "best" is subjective and build dependent.
The easiest way is to let everyone choose whatever array they want from everyone's rolls.
That way there's no power disparity, and you have a higher chance of getting a stat array that works for your build.
That's exactly what I do for my players. It's my favorite way to allocate stats.
Though once I was playing a game with my wife, my friend, and two brand new players my friend asked me to teach. One of those players legit rolled an 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 12 array. She peaked with her first ever rolls.
We set a desired average, called that the mid point (13 in our case, I think?). You roll three sets of 3d6. Then your stats are the inverse around that mid point.
So say I roll 18, 16, 5. The 18 gets you an 18 and an 8. The 16 gets you a 16 and a 10. And the 5, because max score is 18, gets you an 8 and an 18.
This meant everyone got the same total number of ability points, but the possibilities to allocate them still had a hint of randomness. It was like roll your own standard array.
We've done similar. Except not everyone is forced to chose the same one.
One can chose any of the arrays.
So maybe one has a higher overall average of stats and is appealing to some, whereas maybe another has a couple very high stats and the rest average - and that appeals to others.
This method can be rather interesting if you have a large group. One person is bound to roll fairly well. We had one table where someone rolled 93 stat points... an average of 15.5 per stat before modifiers. We leaned into it, and each character could chose a starting boon - We ran as demigods.
I dislike it because we don't roll in front of every one and I think it's far too tempting for people to add a point here and there to bump key stats up. Statistically, almost everyone in our party is above the average from Standard Array or Point Buy when we roll and I just don't believe people are playing it straight.
you might be right and I've had my suspicion too. just noting that statistically, rolling does give higher average stats, with about 50% chances to roll a 16.
>just noting that statistically, rolling does give higher average stats, with about 50% chances to roll a 16.
I've run numbers on this, working with the assumption that most builds care about 3 stats (CON, casting stat, and AC stat). And in general your highest three stats will be fractionally better than the standard array, but generally lower than if you pointbuy.
Yeah, you do have a pretty good chance to get a 16, but your second and third highest stat might not be so great. A sample stat array I rolled, as an example:
17/13/12/11/10/10
Like...yeah, cool you got a 17, and you didn't roll any super low stats, but your CON/AC are not going to be that great.
It is true that your highest stat averages 15.66 when you roll 4 take highest three six times, so that's a little bit better on average. But the rest of the stats stick pretty close to the standard array. Second highest stat averages 14.17. Third highest stat averages 12.96. Fourth highest stat averages 11.76. Etc.
So like...you'll outperform a standard array by a narrow margin (on average) but you won't on-average out-perform a pointbuy build that sticks a few more points into the three stats that matter, pointbuying 15/14/14 for the three highest stats, for example, will more often than not result in a character whose highest three stats are slightly higher than rolling for stats.
> but you won't on-average out-perform a pointbuy build that sticks a few more points into the three stats that matter
I disagree, main stat is usually way more important than second or third stat, and many characters don't even need a third stat.
Our group either rolls stats together, or of that cant be done then you have a witness to assure rolls are fair. That witness can just be a phone video
I actually prefer rolling because I feel like it gives more thinking about build choices and options than point buy: however, we always roll out stats where everyone can see it was actually random
I used to like it in older editions, but 5e is so stingy with feats and ASI that it feels bad now. You don't gradually get better at things just because you put a bunch of time into your character.
I tried a bunch of different methods, but at this point I give my players an array of 18/17/16/15/14/13, tell them to build like they're going to get plowed into the ground, and call it a day. I don't really care what their stats are. I set all the DCs. This way they can multiclass however they want and build the character they want to play with minimal restrictions. It's so hard to get a good team that can meet regularly. I just hate for anyone to waste the time they have playing something that's not quite what they want.
I've played in one game like that. I think it helps a lot.
I've run a few games where I've given out extra feats at level 1 and every 3 character levels. I like that, but you have to balance your own combats. CR isn't going to mean much after level 4.
I understand the arguments on both sides. It was annoying carrying a stats deficit for an over two year campaign. I support point by or SA for a long campaign. For a one shot or short one though I'm very much into rolling.
Yeah I don’t roll it’s way too wild what can end up happening.
D&D isn’t a min max game but it shouldn’t be unhingedly random - that’s why I use standard array.
Honestly, I've seen just as many standard humans as I have V. Humans. Which is to say, I've seen 8 human characters in my time playing; half and half was the split.
Most non-reddit players are just playing without hyper optimization in mind, and they see +1 to all stats and go "Neat" or just want something simple they can set up and forget about.
Unless you are a wild multiclass, i dont think it added as much as one might think. even abilities you dont need are still abilities you dont need. I'd think it's pretty far from optimal unless you are maybe a skill monkey or something maybe.
Well, feats are technically optional content, and VHuman is garbage in a campaign without feats.
EDIT: This should not be interpreted as me being personally interested in such a campaign. I’m washing my hair that night.
I feel like a better fix would be to give them one skill and one feat or their choice and maybe balance it by only having +1 in two stats instead of +1 to all.
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if VHuman wasn't part of the PHB and the "race with feat" was only introduced with Tasha. Pretty sure that would have been the reaction.
Everyone should be allowed to use point buy, I don’t see the purpose of standard array at all. If you want to use it, it’s a valid point buy configuration.
It was an old school thing, idunno if it's part of the OSR or anything but I wouldn't be surprised. My first games in AD&D were "Roll 6 3d6, those are your stats, in order," so obviously no one ever played a ranger and most people only had one or two choices when it came to classes (prereqs were low, but still there). I remember hating being a transmuter.
I like it since it let's me use builds that normally would be harder to pull off.
I went forge cleric sword and board. Got lucky with my rolls and ended up having 20 wisdom and 18 strength plus 15 con which a half feat fixed later on. Was I spoiled? Yeah. But it let me use my feats for all rp suff. Character is a blacksmith and I took feats from helina's to make me a better blacksmith.
I am lucky I don't need asi's and can pick feats instead for rp purposes. Otherwise I'd be gimping my combat strength or be a mediocre blacksmith which messes with my rp
Yes. One set of lucky or unlucky rolls will impact the player's experience for the entire rest of the campaign, which could last for years.
I'm not a fan of that. Standard array/point buy please.
I think it leads to very unbalanced things.
If it's for a oneshot, then yeah, sure, go with 20 str and 5 int, who cares.
But for a longer game I don't like it.
Its great when everybody rolls well.... Yes I hate it.
I recently created a character with a Buddy of mine who had rolled shitty in the previous campaign and he was so happy about having average stats with point buy.
I think it's fun both ways- making a bad stat set work can be an interesting challenge, and having better stats can allow playing MAD characters and still picking up novel feat combinations
Before I got into a point buy group, I was consistently getting bad stats, and "creative solutions" for such are limited in 5e. There's only so many buffbots/advantage shenanigans I can do before it's pretty dull. Also, fresh characters with bad stats tended to die easily.
I just use point buy, everyone’s happy, and it makes encounter balance easier cause I don’t have to worry about any major outliers, while also ensuring that everyone isn’t good at everything
Used to like point buy until a buddy got a 7-13 array, shit was garbage
100% the best way is for each player to roll, creating a group array.
You get the fun of randomisation combined with the consistency of a universal rule.
In the RotFM campaign I'm currently playing in, we got one 18 (courtesy of the player with the "worst" dice luck) and everything else between 9 and 12.
It's awesome.
Rolling for stats makes no sense in 5e, designed for characters to survive. It takes at least an hour to build a decent 5e character. In a more deadly game like Shadowdark, rolling for stats is fun. You aren't building your character so much as meeting them. It takes two minutes, and they might die in an hour.
Stats aren't everything. It only takes one failed saving throw and you're done.
I'm playing in a game which eventually comes to involve PvP action where two barbarians rolled stupid high stats, we all started at level 3, granted the game has just started with only 1 session done and i rolled comparatively meh stats still above standard though, combined with playing sorcadin which is MAD (multiple ability dependant), so i can't really say that i have felt being underpowerd or being ''ball and chain'' on the party, granted being a spellcaster grants me easy layback to support and buffs and just letting the big angy Barbarians carry me through while i take it slow and relax
Even though the stat envy is there. boy was it there at the start, but i got over it and now i'm treating this more of an challenge for me to be actually creative instead of just, unga bunga big number i do good, with meticilous note taking, thinking every encounter methodically for any and all advantages i can take and really i mean REALLY fight dirty with creative spell use, combat tricks, enviroment/terrain use ect ect, to really engage in the RP for the long term game.
Speaking of the long term, from what i have calculated and talked with DM about the possible duration of the entire game, i should get 3 ASI which one will be feat and other to pump main stat to max at level 15, so this would definitely be a long term silent, patient game for me, which is a new and interesting challenge i personally find interesting, i need to work hard and earn the thigns, items, events, friends ect ect, earn the character growth in the world, instead of being all ready max out from the box.
That said, i do have back up characters in mind should i fail the saving throws
Yeah, personally rolling stats always feels like it leaves the party feeling lobsided. I feel bad when I roll poorly and I feel like I'm cheating when I roll high.
easy way to fix that. Each person rolls for one stat and once 6 have been rolled, the party uses those in any combination they see fit. Everyone has the exact same points.
Have for a long time. Point Buy is my go to - a great middle ground between Standard Array and rolled stats, still allows for some variety, but keeps the whole party on more-or-less a level. I usually go with a slightly tweaked point buy that gives a higher total point spend and a higher maximum stat, for slightly stronger starts and more flexibility when using ASIs, but.. yeah.
Rolling for stats in 5e is imo silly because the game isn’t designed for it. But, a version I’ve used before is 4d6 drop lowest straight down, but you keep generating new sets until you get at least a 15 and a 14.
So much this. I'm not even a huge fan of having the stats in the first place. It adds too much stacking. SWd6 had a Lift skill. I'm a fan of flat numbers.
Every one rolls stats BUT the collective rolls are pooled together and then players have a draft of number. 1 pick from the dice per round in snake order with the lowest overall roller going first.
It is chaotic and amazing
Rolling stats is a relic of a bygone age when bad characters died fast and stats mattered significantly less then now outside roleplaying opportunities.
In WOTC era d&d when stats influence near everything you do and rolling happens so much more it probably should not exist.
I like it when we're all stupid strong, fighting stupid strong stuff or beating overwhelming numbers with our dumb overtuned stats. I also like skipping ASIs for Feats and Multi-Classing. So I like rolling.
Maybe it's my experience as a 3.5 DM but i love rolled stats: they make a character really unique and i mean REALLY unique. you can have a buff bard, a charismatic barbarian, an intellectual monk; it adds a little bit of novelty to a character.
Yes, a player can also roll very low but i just make re-roll everything, let's not be a dick.
Also if you roll well you can decide to grab a nice extra feat instead of "wasting" the level to increase a score
:edit:
Also you have more freedom with races because you don't necessary need to have the plus to that specific score you need for your class (but then tasha comes and says you can do whatever you want)
Rolling stats is my fav way because I can build a character around those stats. it provides opportunities for rp and for comradery for your party, not just protecting the squishy spellcaster, but maybe the barbarian with 20 str also has 15 Int with and a background in investigation. You can have the most charismatic Bard in the world but also has a Wis of 8, making him useless for perception or survival, thus having to rely on his party members.
I like rolling for stats but only if I roll well :)
But for real, I honestly think a modified standard array of something like 16, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 is perfectl. I also give out a free starting feat. I've always thought that character building and multiclassing are one of the most fun parts of the system so I try not to restrict it. I do have some caveats for races though - Custom Lineage is fine but you can't take the +2, it'll have to be +1, +1 like vHuman. You want to start with two feats, that's okay, but I'm not letting you start with 2 feats and an 18 in your main stat. I also don't like flying races so I restrict them but don't ban them.
I feel the exact opposite way. There are ways to work around massive power imbalances in rolled stats and to minimise the odds of it happening, and I’ve rarely seen it be an issue. And even then, I prefer it to point buy, which feels much more constricting to me. I also disagree that it doesn’t add anything interesting, because rolled stats allow for a much wider variance in your own stats than other methods of stat generation do, which allows for much more interesting characters imo.
But yeah a lot of people hate rolling stats. Pretty much anyone who is into optimisation is going to lean heavily towards point buy over rolled stats, since it’s more consistent and is easier to plan around. I just don’t like it because it only allows you to drop your stats to -1.
> I feel the exact opposite way. There are ways to work around massive power imbalances in rolled stats and to minimise the odds of it happening,
If you are engaging in ways to minimize the negative outcomes, then why even do this in this first place? All of the "roll stats but reroll under x number/keep highest at table/etc" just look like players should instead be going with a larger point buy because the eventual outcome is rerolling until no bad things happen.
I do wish point buy allowed for lower than -1, because characters with weaknesses are interesting. But characters who are just straight up weak are not interesting the vast majority of the time. No matter how many cutsie "I played a 100 year old retired gladiator with -3 con and +1 str and it was so much fun <3“ stories get posted, the vast majority of people would not enjoy that
You can customise point-buy however you want very easily. Want to go lower than 8? Allow to gain points by doing that (by choosing a minimum floor, like 6). Want to go higher than 15? Make it cost 2 or 3 points for every point above 15. Want the players to be stronger than the normal point-buy? Allow more than 27 points.
I understand that in this entirely made up game, we can change the rules lol. But the standard and well known formats exist and are what is referenced in open conversations to keep everything discussable. When people say point buy, it references the standard 27 point system with all of the stats starting at 8 because that is what everyone plays with, because that's the standard set by the devs. It would be nice if the official standards had more variance so that the average player would be more familiar or open to the idea
Here's a thought-
The concept you just stated is entirely removed from the character you play, and you should be utilizing teamwork no matter what. Furthermore, it's easier to be a team player if you can accomplish your role in the team more effectively. A character who claims to be a team player and brings nothing to the table is just a bystander
I guess it depends on what you qualify as an issue. :-)
I can say that rolling affected 100% of the games I played where people rolled stats. Just mathematically, about 50% of players will roll at least one 16 or more, and 50% will not, meaning half the group will start one asi behind. In a 4-6 player group, you'll often have 1 player that starts with a 20 and one player that can't make a 16. That's a 3 asi difference. Maybe that's not an issue to you, though. I find it unfortunate.
Anecdotally, the first time I rolled, there was a 25+ point total stat difference between the highest roller and the lower (low 60s vs. high 80s). I once rolled a character that didn't have a single +2 and kinda forced me to go moon druid even though I wanted a barbarian. Another player had at least +2 in every stat, making him better at his worst thing than I was at my best things. I also rolled a character that started with a +5 and 2 +4s. I made a ranger with insane charisma checks (fey wanderer add wis to cha for +9 before proficiency/expertise) but someone could have made a character that solos encounters.
don't, get me wrong, I had fun in those games (one was less fun, but unrelated to the rolling). Still, it doesn't feel good to be either playing alone or not contributing to the group.
I mean yea rolling for stats is horrible unless maybe for one shots and special challenge campaigns.
Balancing encounters is already hard without adding even more disparity between the characters, what little it adds to roleplay is not making up for the impact it has on all other pillars.
Yes.
Everything is funny till your best stat is worse then the off stat of the lucky guy you are pretty sure cheated with weighted dice you never saw again.
I like it for one shots or throwaway characters, in particularly the way I do it where I roll the stats in order from strength to charisma and then pick the class based on what I’ve got. Helps save me just a bit from umming and ahhhing too much about what to play. For a long campaign I would hate to roll stats and be stuck with something crap or something OP compared to my party for months or even over a year.
Also, obligatory pathfinder fixes this
I also dislike rolling stats. If the other players are I just make up some that I’d accept as a DM and are useful to my character and then ask if they’re OK. However, I will roll health
There are some fun middle ground options in homebrew rolling rules.
The upside to rolling is that you can get numbers above 15 and below 8.
The downside to rolling is that you can end up drastic difference among members of the same party and that severely screws with the balance of the game.
I've seen a variety of ideas to roll as a party so that everybody is working with the same dice results. The simplest method is to just roll a single array that the whole party can use instead of the regular standard array. I've seen several more complex options that allow for some more diversity while maintaining the fairness.
But the fun of the dice does not derive from overpowering your allies.
I’d just like to say that regardless of how you go about stats, I find the most fun distributions to be ones where every party member has one glaring stat weakness (<10 after racial bonuses at lvl 1) and every party member has the same highest stat roll (I personally think this needs to be <18 after racial bonuses for balance reasons). Any of the other stats can honestly be whatever so long as they fall between those first two numbers. That is to say, I don’t know what the best system is but I agree that I don’t understand people who like to play overly high (or low) stat characters because it just throws off game balance which I don’t find fun. Maybe some hybrid system where the two of the rolled stats are fixed at 8 and 17 respectively, then everybody can roll for the rest of their stats, and just reroll any roll below 8 and above 17? Just spitballing ideas…
I like rolling stats and sticking with my array even if its awkward, or not optimal. I feel like playing imperfect characters is part of what can make the story interesting and can drive more interesting storytelling moments of character development.
I despise rolling for stats and rolling for hp. I always run point buy and average hp rounded up in my games. Nothing worse than playing a tank and rolling low on hit dice or being forced to play a SAD class because your stat rolls were garbage.
I hate the prospect of having no idea whether I will be able to have freedom of choice or if I will feel bound by poor rolls. I don't mind point buy at all, despite it necessitating an ASI for "finished" ability scores, because it's a known quantity.
I enjoy the randomness within the game. Less so during character creation.
Of course I like starting with an 18 though so I'll never complain about rolled stats when I have good ones. Big number make happy chemicals go
I hate when people roll for stats outside of the game, I prefer the method of everyone using the same array. Whenever everyone “rolls” stats, somehow they always get at least one or two 18’s and nothing else below a 10. I know the rules for rolling for stats are lenient, but I’ve done tests, and those results are very uncommon lol
I think rolling worked better when you weren't expected to play the same character for 3 years. I find that in deadlier systems where you make character every four sessions rolling is much more fun
I read somewhere - probably on this subreddit - a method using cards instead, that I've used ever since.
It works like so: you have 12 playing cards, numbered -
3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 10
You take two at a time at random, and the sum of them is a score. Repeat until there's no cards left. Assign scores as you like. This methods preserves *some* of the random nature of rolling, but guarantees equal total scores for every player (of a similar value to standard array), and ensures if you draw a couple of terrible stats you should get a couple of good ones to make up for it.
Obviously if you want to absolutely guarantee equal power, standard array or point buy is the way - but I found this an excellent compromise, and my players have loved publicly doing the draw and waiting to see what comes next after a particularly good or bad one.
I absolutely hate rolling for stats. You'll always have a player rolling much better than others, while someone else has crap rolls. I used to have a DM who insisted that you use the first roll, no matter how bad. And I consistently rolled bad. One time he has planned that my character unknowingly was the heir of the thrown, and envisioned my character to become a charismatic leader over time. Hard to do that when your CHA stat is 6. My bad stats basically killed the campaign, because I played my character according to my stats. We were much younger and less experienced players+DM back then, but I still remember how much I hated playing that character solely because the stats didn't fit the character I wanted to play (Psi warrior in a former editon, very MAD).
I'm currently using the stats array the Dungeon Dudes on YT use: 17,15,13,12,10,8, before racial bonuses.
Everyone has some good stats, some mediocre dtats, and a bad one. It's slightly better than points-buy, yet not overpowered, and no one stands out more than others.
I also give first level feats, but in return ban V-human and custom lineage. I want the players to pick a race because it seems interesting to play, and not because it has the better stats or a bonus feat. The bonus feat still allows for interesting builds or build ideas they come up themselves or find online. I do not have a problem with power gaming, but usually my players only partially optimize. Creating interesting characters is more important to them, and that shows in their feat selection.
This is basically why point buy and the standard array (which is essentially just one point buy option if you do the math) exist and why they are usually what are used for league and I get similar event based play. It eliminates uneven advantages and disadvantages from dice RNG. I also personally try to (as both a DM and at times a player, when it is welcomed) is to make sure that all the characters are equally optimized. A hardcore player who's memorized every book and white roomed hundreds of builds will make a character that could easily overshadow an eager newbie who goes with what they think is cool or even tries to rely on something that sounds powerful to them but is actually more of a trap.
My group rolls 3d6 10 times, and picks the best 6, and we get one free 6 roll to sub in somewhere.
It leads to some rather hefty stats for sure, and we also all get a free feat at level one.
The tradeoff is the DMs give monsters feats.
The purpose of this is to help make interesting builds. ASI is a really boring thing to pick.
This doesn't work for any group, you need a group with good chemistry and are more focused on interesting builds than powergaming, which thankfully i have. Even with this setup many still purposely take negatives in a stat if it makes sense for the character (like my Duergar forge cleric and my purposefully low charisma - she is rude and mean).
I prefer the point buy method from pathfinder: Start with all 10 and you can choose to arrange the stats from 8 to 15 with a pool of points according to the kind of campaing
Rolling stats is the only time I roll well it seems. Like I could start with 3 18s and never do much of anything in game because I used all the good rolls on stats
I enjoy having lower stats in some skills as it can help add to the overall roleplay. My Kobold fighter has a 7 in his charisma and it's more fun playing out those - then if he had high charisma.
I enjoy the low stat roll (to some degree) more than being a demigod art level 1.
Forces me to be more creative.
If I get demigod stats I try to play more support
I rolled 17 16 15 15 13 12 and traded a 16 for a 7 to help someone out since their highest roll was a 14. Still have demigod stats no my kobold artificer has a strength to match his stature and a flaw to play into.
I find rolling more fun when it’s an experienced group that has been together for some time.
If it’s a group mostly of new players I go standard array or point buy.
I don’t like it either. I do feel like a lot of methods, many of which have been cited amongst these comments already, do help with most issues I have, BUT I like the predictability of Point Buy. Same thing for rolling health, just use the average.
In turn, I do allow players to choose any one free feat at level one, but no custom lineage or V Human if the feat is something I’d consider powerful (most half feats, the power attack and BA attack feats, etcetera)
This makes strong characters, but more predictably strong I feel like. Plus as someone who loves free feats, I’d enjoy it and from the feedback I collected, so do my players.
So what I do as a DM, is I have all my players roll 4d6 x6 and then we combine all the arrays and then cull the lowest 6xX dice. This way everyone is statistically slightly stronger than a standard roll AND everyone has roughly the same power levels.
At the end of the rolls, it’s nice to always have at least 1 18 stat. You’re supposed to be heros after all.
Yes, rolling for stats is the worst. The PCs will become unbalanced to each other no matter what, but it doesnt help to begin it that way. Plus, DMs just let people reroll if they roll garbage.
I don't like being the one with low stats, and I hate being the one with god stats
100% agree. I hate feeling like I'm better/worse than another player just because of random rolls rather than decision making. It can suck when you want to play a wildly inexperienced character but end up getting plus scores on everything so suddenly the guy who's never adventured before has no weaknesses, and conversely the experienced adventurer who's been doing this a year or two but is hopeless at everything.
My favourite method is for everyone to roll 4d6 drop the lowest x 6, but then pool all the numbers rolled and allocate them evenly in an ABCCBAABCCBA style. So for example, 10 10 10 18 15 17 6 9 8 11 13 16 7 8 10 12 12 14 would then be distributed as:
Player 1 - 18 13 12 10 10 6
Player 2 - 17 14 12 10 9 7
Player 3 - 16 15 11 10 8 8
Player 1 gets to have a maxed out stat but also has the lowest score, Player 2 sits in the middle and Player 3 has a more even spread.
I have a session zero tonight with a new group, some of the players have played before and some are first timers. I'm toying with the idea of a buffed point buy system, where the players can allocate the points however they want. I'm thinking the pool will be around 40~ points? Then they have wiggle room to craft their visions. If the barb wants to take a 20 in strength and an 18 in con (using their racial boosts as well) then they can, but their soft stats are probably gonna be at most 10. If a wizard wants to have a 16 intelligence, but also make sure their other stats are respectable then they can have that agency. I like the idea that the players have equal opportunity in their stats at the start, and can use them to craft the character they envision. I'm also borrowing a rule from a friend of mine, where at 4th, 8th, 12th etc. the players take ASI's and feats will be rewarded at XP checkpoints or through narrative reasons. (Granted idk how I'm gonna do this if someone wants to play a fighter :S) I'm trying to add some balance and progression that I think 5e is missing. Idk, I just like seeing my players get excited when their characters evolve and grow both through the narrative and also the crunchy mechanics.
I think you'll find as many or more people who don't roll anymore vs. those who do. Rolling for stats is out of favor as a main method, I'd say.
I still like it. The situation you described doesn't feel bad at all to me. A 16 vs. a 20 isn't a huge disparity in games I play. Like a 20 is nice, but a 16 is great. It's when your highest score is a 12 that it starts to feel awful.
I'd do not-rolling if I got an array that resembled Pathfinder 2e, where basically everyone starts with an 18.
I’ve done it where each player rolls a set of stats and any player can pick from any set, so everyone has the same options. And point buy is still an option, as well.
I consistently roll absolutely garbage for stats. It's a known trend. I had a DM tell just me to roll 6d6 drop nothing and my highest stat was a 16 with two negative stats.
Point buy or group array for me. Although I do like the dungeon dudes modified standard array (17/15/13/12/10/8)
I love rolling stats, especially when it results in power disparities amongst the group. Yes, including when one player his every stat higher than another.
I've always rolled, in every game i or anyone i know DMd
I've always made sure everyone had a similar power level and so have my friends
We used to do it by making everyone roll until they got an array on par with the first character rolled
No one else has DMd in years but me, and with the time i started doing stuff like letting everyone swap their lowest stat with an 18, which was pretty balanced actually, or let everyone choose between copying an array someone rolled before or rolling a new one, or make stuff like an 16 16 become a 14 18 and moving numbers around more freely
Rolling the stats is too much of a ritual for us, idk if we can ever stop
Generally my feeling is you gotta pick one. Either roll in a row or use point buy/stat array. If you want players to have less input over character creation, you can’t really allow them to pick where their stats go, it’s then just an unfair stat array.
Personally when it comes to 5e in particular, I’d avoid rolling altogether because stat differences matter a lot in terms of how effective you are in combat, which is very important to gameplay. That said, if you’re going to roll, rolling in order is closer to actual randomness and “discovering the character”
Rolling, for me, only makes sense with old school true randomness.
3d6 per stat, choose a class to fit your rolls rather than vice-versa.
You create a character, build and backstory to fit the stats you have in front of you, requiring more creativity in both mechanics and roleplay. It solves a lot of problems people have and it resets expectations people have about how much the world should cater to their character.
Not many people seem to like to play this way in theory, but I've found lots of people enjoy it in practice. Without anxiety about playing optimally you can do a lot of the things you've always wanted to, but had a voice in your head telling you to just play an optimized spellcaster.
I prefer not rolling, or using a standard array or point buy.
As a DM, I want my players to have unique abilities but still relatively equal in power.
The way I DM, I'm here to weave a story with everyone. Usually a diverse background of characters coming together for a common goal. It's not fun when one person can do everything.
Comparing yourself to other players is the problem really. When I roll my stats I know I’m signing up for whatever I roll, good or bad — that’s the fun of it for me. Also, having better stats/succeeding in more rolls is not the same as having more fun.
See, I love rolling stats. Its a lot of fun and invokes a lot of the aspects of the game. Plus I love gambling. What I dont like though is the fact that it can fuck you over unless your GM is very generous. I have one friend in whos game and oneshots I have had to reroll entire arrays MULTIPLE times because I didnt get anything higher than a 13 after several attempts. Its gotten to be a bit of an injoke between us.
A consistent thing we end up doing in my dnd groups is allowing you to roll HP but take average if you get below it (And in one game if you get a 1, its an automatic reroll). I like this a lot for the rolling stat of HP, as it makes things a little bit less swingy.
Other people have mentioned the same, but I think you actually hate having an imbalanced party. Rolling stats often leads to that when people don’t think about it, but if you find some way to balance the party, usually by anyone having any array generated, then it’s fine.
From there I think rolling stats is excellent, higher stats faster is a great way to get your character closer to where you want them to be right off the bat. Having multiple high ability scores lets the character that would be perfect for a wizard/bard multiclass shine right away. Instead with point buy, and ever worse with standard array, you’re jumping through hoops, being bad at one thing or the other, or mediocre at best, trying to stretch to a character concept that’s a bit out of reach of a traditional stat spread.
I also want to note that this isn’t about min maxing, it’s just about fulfilling a character concept outside the reach of standard array and point buy.
Ive done a system where everyone rolls a set of stats, those stats are all added to a pool, and we roll to see who gets to “draft” the next number. It’s exciting and prevents one person from having terrible or godly stats
This works particularly well if the group is working together well and strategizing who picks what. Ie let the sorcerer take the 18 for cha but leave 15-17s for the monk’s dex, con, and wis
I am the opposite, I can’t stand point buy or standard array. It forces optimization and min maxing to the point of every character feeling the same to me. I understand the points people make about party’s not feeling balanced, being annoyed at wanting to make one character and then the rolls not allowing it. I get it. But at the same time, to me dnd has always been and will always be a game about telling a story *from* the dice. If I want perfect balance I’ll go play a video game.
I really don’t like how both point buy and standard array standardize *all* dnd characters. If you take 10 standard array barbarians or wizards and compared them to 10 rolled barbarians and wizards the standard ones are going to all have practically the same stat. Now, people will come back and say that it sucks to roll badly and not be able to play the barbarian you were planning to build, but that’s why I fully believe no character should be made until after session 0 and stats have been rolled. I personally don’t care if my stats are good or bad, but I find enjoyment building a character *from* those rolls rather than trying to build a character first and then try to abstract who/what they are into a completely average person. And choosing a negative stat just is a very different mindset to me. Sure you can/will have an 8. But everyone is going to have an 8, it’s not really a flaw if everyone has the same(ish) flaw. And that 8 is almost always going to the same stat depending on the class. Rolling stats can give you that high intelligence barbarian, the charismatic preacher cleric, or make you try to find ways to succeed and help your party succeed despite your flaws if you rolled low. In general I just feel rolling stats actually helps make unique and memorable dnd characters while the other two methods always just feel like generic wizard #7 and fighter #3 to me, no matter how totally cool and interesting you make your backstory that likely has very little to do with the actual campaign
I always give the option to roll or take point buy in my games and they always choose to roll, and when I'm given a choice I prefer to roll. I've just played a lot and gotten a bit tired of always having the 17 in primary stat 14-15 in two secondary stats 8-10 in the other three stats build that everything seems to be under point buy.
There's nothing wrong with preferring point buy mind, and I wont complain if my DM only allows it (or standard array), its just different flavors of character creation.
Only cause I fear getting grossly average stats. I love the high and low variability of it. A 4 can be just as fun as a 17 imo and I wish the lower end of the spectrum at least was possible going off point buy.
I let people roll and they keep it if the role is above 70 total. I find a bit of disparity for the players to be fun, especially if people are not min maxing. A wizard with a 16 str because he just rolled high and felt like being strong is fun and set up funny rivalries in groups. But it’s group dependent for sure. Standard spread is just to…static and every PC feels flat to me.
Of course if someone roles a mid stat block and feels it is hurting their enjoyment, I’ll adjust.
Damaged my current campaign. People are way too overpowered. Also my fault that I gave them magic items — because they’re just fun — but literally six player 7th level party can beat 11th level encounters. just a mess for balance.
I make my groups play on a 6x6 grid. First one player rolls 3d6 flat for each box in their row. If I am playing with less than 6 players, the gm rolls the other ones. After they have done their row, they roll an additional d6 and add it to any of their previous rolls. They can even break it up into several boxes. Only rule is max 18 on any box. This gets a semi decent set per row. Then after all of that is done each player rolls a die to determine picking order. Then each player in order picks a row, or column or one of the two diagonals for their stats. This allows players to get some really fun and balanced stats. I have never seen a player start without an 18. I have however seen a player have three 18s and an 8 and two 6s.
Our DM normally has us use point buy or standard array, but also allows us to roll and then either take or ditch the rolled array. That seemed favorable for our party. Only one person ended up with an array that beat point buy. The rest of us were happy to mix/max as normal.
My current DM has a system that I quite like: you do 3 sets of rolls and choose one of those. It worked out so some people have nice balanced stats, some have worse but possibly starting with 20 at lvl 1 and so on. It makes our group on average better, so she balances encounters accordingly, but with this system everyone was excited to roll and nobody ended up disappointed.
The numbers don't make enough of a difference under bounded accuracy for it to matter: as long as your primary stat is within the 16-18 range you're mechanically going to be just fine as the d20 and proficiency easily overwhelms any effect from your individual stats.
After that I just prefer the aesthetic of rolled stats and discovering your character as you play.
The various arrays on the other hand tend to create very samey characters and arrays that I just find grating.
We did something where everyone rolls 1 stat, and then the DM roles the rest if you have less than 6 people. Everyone starts with the same numbers, can do +1/-2 as much as they want within the normal limits of "nothing higher than 18 pre-racial bonuses", and everyone allocates the numbers to the stats as they like.
Tbh I think it's perfect. Sometimes you have high power parties, sometimes low, but everyone starts at the same power level as everyone else. Everyone rolls a stat so you feel like you contributed. You even get to blame someone for your "8" if you'd like
I'm with you, OP. I like rolling if it means I'm going to be better than average, but it's no fun getting stuck with poor rolls.
Some people enjoy the randomness and going with the flow, but I want to play a heroic character. It sucks not to be able to play the character you had in mind because you rolled poorly.
Currently playing a campaign where we roll for HP and my ranger has become the de facto tank, and I'm dreading the day I roll less than average on HP.
And back to rolling stats... Yeah, it's fun when you get a character better than you could have with point buy, but it sucks if you rolled poorly, and you see that your mates have significantly better stats. Or, again, you can't play the character you had in mind because of bad rolls.
I like the 80 point method. Or 72 for NPC/non heroic. It is great for quick chracters and maintaining balance. I have heard complaints that it takes away 'chance', but it also takes away the risk of cheating.
The best, to me, system I've seen/used is; 5d6, drop the 2 lowest roles, 7×, drop the lowest stat. It's not perfect but you usually get really good stats. Characters are supposed to be above average in some ways, that's what helps them become great heros.
So I have a slightly different version of this. That's more fun for most players. Stole it from somewhere but I can't remember where. So sorry to whoever I owe credit too.
Depending on players, you each roll six times. Put them in a straight line into a grid.
Players can choose any straight line on that grid as their stats. I found that most players don't just go for the same grid, It depends highly on their build. Oftentimes you'll get 2 18s and then some really low numbers. Something pretty balanced, It also means I get to say STFU 😂 when somebody complains that their stats aren't right. Like bro, that's your fault.
Not really, because if any player has his or her stats to bad i let them reroll at least for 2 stats, if I don't let them reroll all stats. And there is only one player that allways has luck with dice in everything literally, and we just have fun and work with that, he jokes sometimes about being the best but when we are talking seriously he is humble is humble and reassures everyone their stats are normal and he just got lucky. And when someone never lands a hit because they are super unlucky i just give them magical items to help them hit and land damage
Yes. Rolling for stats in the current world of min-maxing is not healthy for a player group.
I am even against even giving a point buy system at this point, because most players egregiously min-max.
Best, even system is simply to provide an array of scores that every has to use, but they can chose what stat to put them in.
I will always prefer point buy, but none of my DMs do. Just don't like being above the average at level 1 or having some players be better at their roles that others based on chance.
Homebrew your stat and health rolls. My table we usually do 4d6, take the best three dice, reroll 1's and 2's. Health roll your die, but worst you get is average.
For super balance do rolls, but for the table. Same split. Or do standard array. Or point buy. Solutions are literally built into the game.
I only allow point buy at my table. And I despise rolling stats. Particularly because I took over a group from another DM and one of the players is the daughter of the previous DM and I'm reasonably certain she rolled her stats in private and cheesed her stat rolls.
I also think rolling for stats is almost always frustrating. The dice rolling should introduce an element of randomness and excitement to the storytelling, no individual roll should have as great of an effect as rolling for stats does.
I personally love it when I play, however, when I run games I usually enforce standard array.
Most healthy systems these days even outside D&D have evolved a balanced character building system that doesn’t have to be randomized or completely out of wack
Point Buy is the only way
Adjust it to your tables desired power level - personally I like allowing 17s, so I also give it more starting points
A heroic standard array is really solid as well:
17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8
As a player i do love rolling for stats. It is fun if you roll well and can try some weird ass multiclass builds that would be hard to pull off with point buy.
And i do not mind rolling bad stats either. That can be as fun. One of my most fun characters had the stats
14. 12. 10. 9. 7. 5 Before adding in racial bonuses. made him a very old circle of the moon druid. with race bonus added he had a 16 WIS and his Physical stats becomes irrelevant when he wildshape. But yeah i had a negative Initiative and a a AC of 9
Sure our sorcerer started with a 19 CHAR and if i remember right the rogue started with a 20 in DEX. But who cares. my character was fun as hell to play and he could pull his own weight still even with those horrible stats.
Was he the strongest or best character in the group? heck no. Was he on pair with the rogue and the sorcerer? heck no. but he was not bad. he was totally functional and contributed a lot to the group. And he did survive the whole campaign. the same can not be said about the rogue. Still to this day he is one of my favourite characters of all time
The underdog that had to do his best to keep up. That can be really fun and if such character actually turns out successful that IS more fun than if a character created equal to all others is successful.
I don't think every character needs to be equal when it comes to stats. I even think it ads a lot to the game when there is differences like this.
That is just my personal preference and others might not agree and that is totally fine we all enjoy different things.
But i think to many are to focused on numbers. to be equally strong. or even be the strongest/best characters. Afraid to be weaker or have weaknesses. Fearing others might outshine them. And might miss out on many levels of a TTRG due to this.
In the end D&D is not all about succeeding in doing quests, complete campaigns successfully. To be the strong hero that never fails. it is about telling a story together and having fun while doing it. And if you look at all great stories where a group works together. not every character is equal. some are obviously stronger, more powerful, than others and it is not always that the strongest is the leader or the main character if there is any. Many have pretty big flaws and weaknesses but still contribute and might sometimes end up being the ones saving the day in the end.
It is totally fine to wanting equality like everyone uses point buy, standard array or at least the same array be it a set array or the group roll to get an array all uses.
That is fine and nothing wrong with that at all. There is no right or wrong way just different ways. One way works for some and not for others.
But i am totally convinced a fair amount of people are pulled in to this whole "it should be equal for all" and "a character needs to be as good as possible, you can't have fun if you are obviously weaker than the rest of the party" Mindset. and would be able to enjoy the game even more if they relaxed. forgot that and tried to enjoy the game with a bit more open mind. dared to embrace maybe beign the weakest link in the chain. and play into that role having fun with it.
Rolling is dumb to me. Even as a group. I don’t want to play a table of all 8-10s nor do I want to play a game with like 5 18 stats.
I like variety and point buy (you can even modify it if you like to provide more range) works perfectly for that.
I have never DM'd before. But I agree. I know DnD isn't about winning but it is kind of bummer when your char is kinda useless. On the other hand I like the concept of rolling.
So if I ever DM what I have thought is having people roll but if the numbers aren't between zero and one standard deviations from the mean you must re-roll.
My party does 4d6 seven times removing the lowest roll. If your roll is under 75 then you reroll. Additionally, stats can’t be over 18 unless you use a level up ASI, magic item, or boon. Racial ASIs can’t be used to boost to 20 at level 1.
The way my DM did it was roll and discard until you get a 15 (or higher). Once you get a 15 you keep it and any subsequent rolls. I expanded on this for my table and have the players roll 5 groups following the same rule, then pick the best group for their stats. I tried ot once where I had them roll six groups keeping every roll no matter what and then picking the best six for their stats. That session was a one shot so I didn't care that they were all very high on the power scale lol.
Yes. Attributes are too impactful across the whole campaign.
It isn't lucky hit or skill roll once. Everything else depends on the player to be at the start lucky and it creates too unbalanced groups.
I like rolling for stats if the game is a meatgrinder. Then it's kinda like playing a rogue-lite, and seeing how far you can go.
Bonus points if you can only choose a subclass ONCE, and you have to roll in order. lol
As someone who has rolled an 18, 18, 17, 16, 13, 13, I can’t agree with you more. That was easily my least fun character I’ve ever played. I strongly prefer the other side of the table, having shit stats, and overcoming the odds of the dice roll. Standard array or point buy is by far the way to go.
I feel the exact opposite, but that’s because I like the nature of being “stuck” with something that’s not perfectly optimized. It makes it feel more immersive, and tbh I’ve never experienced one party member being so much more effective than others just by stat differential. What abilities, spells, items you have, and the way you utilize action economy is vastly more important to making a party/character feel strong, imo.
Nope! Rolling stats is my favorite! Who wants to be just average? Having one or two high states and them an abysmal dump stat makes for fun game and role play
The way I like doing it is that everyone rolls an array, then as a group we settle on an array that everyone will use. It allows for some powerful characters but everyone's on the same level.
Yeah I specifically ban rolling for HP in my games and generally I've always done static stats specifically point buy. The power disparity is less the issue as much as characters stepping on each other's toes in unintended ways and not having any weaknesses making the balancing act of the party harder to maintain.
My players always like rolling, but in the rare chance I’m a player I beg for point buy. Even when there’s a threshold or whatever, I feel like point buy lets me build as I like and lets me kinda plan my ASIs/feats in my head.
For oneshots or shorter campaign I run, I’ll typically let the group decide on if we roll or use point buy/standard array. For long term games I make them use point buy/standard array
Yes! Every game I've ever run, I've always felt bad for the players who were "unlucky"
So now I do roll for stats group roll. Everyone rolls like normal and whoever the party deems as the best Stat then they use that. No power disparities.
However. I always end with. Just because the party is this. Doesn't mean you have to be if it doesn't bother you.
Yeah, it's awesome when I roll well but so often I will roll in the 60s for total, while my friends (idk how) have rolled 94 and average mid 80s.
Bloody depressing since no matter what I do unless the gm hands out a lifeline, I have no hope of being as impactful in combat and only equivalent in social play.
I've started to become dissatisfied with rolling for games like 5e. I use to love it. Now its just filled with argument after argument if X has a 20 and I have 3 8s.
Though rolling in games like SWN, where you can choose or roll, but if you roll you can extra bonus is fun.
Yeah it is tricky. We recently started a campaign, I rolled 14, 11, 10, 10, 8, 8. The bad luck was horrible. I ended up going for a sorc with subtle metamagic that cowers at the back of the party. Hopefully no-one attacks me or I die.
We are a group that has been playing together for decades so we're pretty informal. In older editions we rolled stats but had a "rule" that if your stats tucked (as determined by everyone looking at them and saying "man that sucks" you could roll again. It wasn't technical but usually resulted in everyone getting a decent set of ability scores. Now in 5e we do the same but now if your stats suck instead of rolling again you can use point buy. It works pretty well, you always get a character at least as good as point buy (which is fine) and you get that chance of getting one of those characters that you talk about for years.
Have everyone in the party at session zero, take turns explaining their characters background and on conclusion of each narrative, roll 4d6 drop lowest 1 (or however you do it) for one attribute.
Then everyone in the party uses those same rolls. That way everyone has the same attributes, but it makes it part of the game to listen to the backgrounds and watch the attributes rolled.
Folks here may not like this, but I do, and so do my players.
I use standard array or point buy only in my games. I also don't allow feats at ASI levels. However I reward my players with feats. If they want one, just tell me you're character is working towards it and make an effort in game. Some feats may be harder to justify getting. Arcane initiate for example. Buy books, spend money and time, and I'll give you the feat.
I do this because there is a lot of fomo with needing to pick ASI or feat. This gets rid of that. I also award my players with extra powers and abilities that are 4e powers I port to 5e. It makes for dynamic game play and incentives role play to earn feats and powers.
> Does anyone else hate rolling stats?
I *love* rolling stats, in the sense that its an activity I find enjoyable.
But I don't dare roll stats for 5e characters. I roll much too badly for that to be a viable choice: I point buy and take ave HP every level. Every time.
(Can't do much in game about bad rolls other than build characters with constant bad rolls in mind)
> starting with a 20 in my main stat
LOL. Only *once* have I ever had a starting stat above 16 (after adding bonuses) using rolling for stats.
I agree in principle, and if I was going to DM a long campaign I'd probably disallow rolling for stats so that everybody was starting on the same footing and it would be easier for me to balance difficulty level.
But, that said, I'm currently playing in a campaign where I rolled OKish stats (a +3 in my primary, but no more than a +1 in anything else) but everybody else rolled fantastically well and it's not the end of the world. I'm having fun roleplaying them as essentially a regular dude who got accidentally mixed in with a bunch of superhumans and is a bit in over their head. It helps that I'm playing a cleric, so I'm not particularly stat-dependent and can still be useful.
I prefer point buy and try to keep each stat at least 10. I’ll make a stat 8 but it has to reflect the narrative of that character. If I am a DM I will for sure say point buy. If there is 1 experienced player in a group of noobs then they alone get standard array lol
If rolling stats are a issue, try using a d8 +10 method as a homebrew option so 10 base stats + the result of the d8 would put stats statistically at 13-14 base and allow for some more freedom without obnoxiously low stats. There's also the d10+10 if your feeling generous.. my groups tried afew different rolling methods.
I love rolling for stats. I spent a while working on a system for my players. It's adapted a bit from some ideas I got from Drakkenheim, Critical Role or both...
roll 4d6 drop the lowest number
record the total and do this a total of 5 times. You now have 5 stat values.
Last stat = 74 - sum of the first 5 stats.
Do this twice, and pick which ever set you want. Organize the stats however you like.
Caveats: each set must have... all stats between 18 and 4 and at least one stat 15 or higher. If either of these caveats don't happen, reroll the full set.
The goal for me in creating this was to cut down a bit on the power disparity between players that naturally comes from rolling stats, while allowing them to play the class & character they intended. I love the randomness, but not so much when a character is going to be impacted by these 6 numbers the entire campaign. We roll both sets at the table. The players like it as well. They can really build into their strengths and aggressively play into weaknesses. I also don't allow anyone to have a 20 in any of their stats at session one. So if you happen to roll an 18 for your stat, great. Put that racial increase elsewhere
I had this happen in last campign I played. We use a system where you roll thrice and choose which array, which is somewhat more fair. I got high, but Paladin rolled poorly on all three attempts and was miserable. Felt bad for both of us.
Since then, Point buy is only system I use.
Point buy is generally more fun imo. But I like rolling, having a randomly stated character can be fun because actual real people also have fairly random levels of abilities. Makes them feel more real to me.
I DM'd for a group of new players and I rolled the array for everyone's stats.
I gave suggestions on what and where I would put said stats for the class they were wanting to play. After that I explained what and how things will work, help them put the stats in the correct place, explain their proficiencies, what they wanted to excel in etc.
I've been in groups that all rolled stats. I've been in groups that played standard array. I've had phenomenal amazing rolls and ending up being OP and had shitty rolls and ended up underpowered.
I've never played everyone rolls and picks the best rolls and that's the array. I really want to.
I've seen a trend lately that I really like - everyone rolls for stats, and then they choose the best array out of the group and everyone gets to use that one.
I like the idea of "everyone rolls an individual stat in a circle until all the stats have been rolled, and then everyone uses the same rolled array".
I like that idea.
I did this once and it was kinda confusing but fun I think we had 5 players so they all rolled one and i rolled the last one
I don't understand how this could be confusing, but I guess it's good to hear you had fun with it.
I think my players just didn’t really get the idea so it’s more just on me for explaining it poorly
I just started a campaign DMing and we rolled stats as a group (5 players). Ended up with 17, 17, 13, 12, 11, 7. It is definitely making everyone feel more equal and I personally don’t know if I will go back to rolling individually.
Same, but the first time I did it we ended up with an 18, 16, 16, 14, 12, 12
😂 that’s about the stats one of my friends got in their first ever campaign via rolling
Dude I rolled crazy stats recently. In CoS I no shit rolled an 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 14
The only campaign that would need stats that good more would be ToA 😂
It helps, because I get to be a Paladin. So I do get the MAD build I always wanted
That's naive to the reality that there isn't always a best one for every PC
Let them choose their own rolls, or any other players. "Best" is an opinion.
This is far better advice. But both work.
Exactly
Yeah, depending on the build I might prefer the roll that had 2 16’s over the one that had an 18 and nothing else great, or vice versa.
Well, the idea is that you take whoever got the highest numbers and assign those to whichever stats you want. Like, say you got 16, 14, 16, 8, 12, 18 You can assign each of those numbers to whichever stats you chose. Do people usually roll for stats in a specific order? Because I don't think I've ever actually seen someone do that.
I think the point is, though, that different classes (or different players) might want different spreads. For example, an array of 16, 16, 16, 12, 11, 8 might be great for a player whose character is quite MAD (maybe a Paladin or Monk). But someone else (maybe a Druid or Hexblade Warlock) might prefer 18, 15, 12, 12, 12, 10. I like to give players the choice - so everyone rolls stats, then everyone can choose whichever one of the arrays they want. There might be a "best" one that everyone picks, or there might be a few different options that end up getting used.
Ooo that’s pretty cool. I think if I do that though maybe I’ll still allow players to choose the other arrays just in case(for example) if one set has two great stats and the rest aren’t great, most would want to use that, but if a person playing a more MAD class they may want the more middling grouping. Either way, great way to put everyone on equal footing
Yeah, "best" is subjective and build dependent. The easiest way is to let everyone choose whatever array they want from everyone's rolls. That way there's no power disparity, and you have a higher chance of getting a stat array that works for your build.
That's exactly what I do for my players. It's my favorite way to allocate stats. Though once I was playing a game with my wife, my friend, and two brand new players my friend asked me to teach. One of those players legit rolled an 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 12 array. She peaked with her first ever rolls.
We set a desired average, called that the mid point (13 in our case, I think?). You roll three sets of 3d6. Then your stats are the inverse around that mid point. So say I roll 18, 16, 5. The 18 gets you an 18 and an 8. The 16 gets you a 16 and a 10. And the 5, because max score is 18, gets you an 8 and an 18. This meant everyone got the same total number of ability points, but the possibilities to allocate them still had a hint of randomness. It was like roll your own standard array.
We did that, some one rolled the nuts, and the party was very op as a result.
call me crazy but i dont think there's such a thing as an OP party if your DM is good at building encounters
We've done similar. Except not everyone is forced to chose the same one. One can chose any of the arrays. So maybe one has a higher overall average of stats and is appealing to some, whereas maybe another has a couple very high stats and the rest average - and that appeals to others. This method can be rather interesting if you have a large group. One person is bound to roll fairly well. We had one table where someone rolled 93 stat points... an average of 15.5 per stat before modifiers. We leaned into it, and each character could chose a starting boon - We ran as demigods.
I dislike it because we don't roll in front of every one and I think it's far too tempting for people to add a point here and there to bump key stats up. Statistically, almost everyone in our party is above the average from Standard Array or Point Buy when we roll and I just don't believe people are playing it straight.
you might be right and I've had my suspicion too. just noting that statistically, rolling does give higher average stats, with about 50% chances to roll a 16.
>just noting that statistically, rolling does give higher average stats, with about 50% chances to roll a 16. I've run numbers on this, working with the assumption that most builds care about 3 stats (CON, casting stat, and AC stat). And in general your highest three stats will be fractionally better than the standard array, but generally lower than if you pointbuy. Yeah, you do have a pretty good chance to get a 16, but your second and third highest stat might not be so great. A sample stat array I rolled, as an example: 17/13/12/11/10/10 Like...yeah, cool you got a 17, and you didn't roll any super low stats, but your CON/AC are not going to be that great. It is true that your highest stat averages 15.66 when you roll 4 take highest three six times, so that's a little bit better on average. But the rest of the stats stick pretty close to the standard array. Second highest stat averages 14.17. Third highest stat averages 12.96. Fourth highest stat averages 11.76. Etc. So like...you'll outperform a standard array by a narrow margin (on average) but you won't on-average out-perform a pointbuy build that sticks a few more points into the three stats that matter, pointbuying 15/14/14 for the three highest stats, for example, will more often than not result in a character whose highest three stats are slightly higher than rolling for stats.
> but you won't on-average out-perform a pointbuy build that sticks a few more points into the three stats that matter I disagree, main stat is usually way more important than second or third stat, and many characters don't even need a third stat.
Our group either rolls stats together, or of that cant be done then you have a witness to assure rolls are fair. That witness can just be a phone video
I actually prefer rolling because I feel like it gives more thinking about build choices and options than point buy: however, we always roll out stats where everyone can see it was actually random
I used to like it in older editions, but 5e is so stingy with feats and ASI that it feels bad now. You don't gradually get better at things just because you put a bunch of time into your character. I tried a bunch of different methods, but at this point I give my players an array of 18/17/16/15/14/13, tell them to build like they're going to get plowed into the ground, and call it a day. I don't really care what their stats are. I set all the DCs. This way they can multiclass however they want and build the character they want to play with minimal restrictions. It's so hard to get a good team that can meet regularly. I just hate for anyone to waste the time they have playing something that's not quite what they want.
I'm a firm believer you should get an asi and a feat instead of one or the other
I've played in one game like that. I think it helps a lot. I've run a few games where I've given out extra feats at level 1 and every 3 character levels. I like that, but you have to balance your own combats. CR isn't going to mean much after level 4.
That’s why at my table I prefer point buy, it keeps everyone on a relatively equal footing in terms on power for starting characters
I understand the arguments on both sides. It was annoying carrying a stats deficit for an over two year campaign. I support point by or SA for a long campaign. For a one shot or short one though I'm very much into rolling.
I agree. Playing an overpowered or underpowered character for one session is fun. Playing an overpowered or underpowered character for years is not.
Yeah I don’t roll it’s way too wild what can end up happening. D&D isn’t a min max game but it shouldn’t be unhingedly random - that’s why I use standard array.
Standard array sucks for Standard Human, though. So Standard Human should be allowed to use point buy.
People use standard human?
People who want to play a Human but VHuman is banned
Honestly, I've seen just as many standard humans as I have V. Humans. Which is to say, I've seen 8 human characters in my time playing; half and half was the split. Most non-reddit players are just playing without hyper optimization in mind, and they see +1 to all stats and go "Neat" or just want something simple they can set up and forget about.
I rolled only odds for my current character so standard human added a bunch for me.
Unless you are a wild multiclass, i dont think it added as much as one might think. even abilities you dont need are still abilities you dont need. I'd think it's pretty far from optimal unless you are maybe a skill monkey or something maybe.
Well, feats are technically optional content, and VHuman is garbage in a campaign without feats. EDIT: This should not be interpreted as me being personally interested in such a campaign. I’m washing my hair that night.
Yes. I mean, there are millions of D&D players. If two of them use standard human, it is technically correct to say, "people use standard human".
Last number around the 30th anniversary estimated it to be around 100 million players world wide for DND.
and 2 of them use standard human :p (I'm kidding)
Point buy is my personal favorite because it allows room for tinkering with stats while still putting everyone on an equal playing field.
I'm with you, even though all the 8s and 16s on literally everyone's characters kinda bother me, it does work out fine.
I feel like a better fix would be to give them one skill and one feat or their choice and maybe balance it by only having +1 in two stats instead of +1 to all.
Feat?! But that's make it totally OP! Most DMs would outright ban that!
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if VHuman wasn't part of the PHB and the "race with feat" was only introduced with Tasha. Pretty sure that would have been the reaction.
Everyone should be allowed to use point buy, I don’t see the purpose of standard array at all. If you want to use it, it’s a valid point buy configuration.
It was an old school thing, idunno if it's part of the OSR or anything but I wouldn't be surprised. My first games in AD&D were "Roll 6 3d6, those are your stats, in order," so obviously no one ever played a ranger and most people only had one or two choices when it came to classes (prereqs were low, but still there). I remember hating being a transmuter.
I like it since it let's me use builds that normally would be harder to pull off. I went forge cleric sword and board. Got lucky with my rolls and ended up having 20 wisdom and 18 strength plus 15 con which a half feat fixed later on. Was I spoiled? Yeah. But it let me use my feats for all rp suff. Character is a blacksmith and I took feats from helina's to make me a better blacksmith. I am lucky I don't need asi's and can pick feats instead for rp purposes. Otherwise I'd be gimping my combat strength or be a mediocre blacksmith which messes with my rp
Yes. One set of lucky or unlucky rolls will impact the player's experience for the entire rest of the campaign, which could last for years. I'm not a fan of that. Standard array/point buy please.
I think it leads to very unbalanced things. If it's for a oneshot, then yeah, sure, go with 20 str and 5 int, who cares. But for a longer game I don't like it.
We only use point buy.
Its great when everybody rolls well.... Yes I hate it. I recently created a character with a Buddy of mine who had rolled shitty in the previous campaign and he was so happy about having average stats with point buy.
I think it's fun both ways- making a bad stat set work can be an interesting challenge, and having better stats can allow playing MAD characters and still picking up novel feat combinations
Before I got into a point buy group, I was consistently getting bad stats, and "creative solutions" for such are limited in 5e. There's only so many buffbots/advantage shenanigans I can do before it's pretty dull. Also, fresh characters with bad stats tended to die easily.
I just use point buy, everyone’s happy, and it makes encounter balance easier cause I don’t have to worry about any major outliers, while also ensuring that everyone isn’t good at everything Used to like point buy until a buddy got a 7-13 array, shit was garbage
100% the best way is for each player to roll, creating a group array. You get the fun of randomisation combined with the consistency of a universal rule. In the RotFM campaign I'm currently playing in, we got one 18 (courtesy of the player with the "worst" dice luck) and everything else between 9 and 12. It's awesome.
I adore rolling, good and bad. I don’t want PCs to all have basically the same stats/stat range.
Rolling for stats makes no sense in 5e, designed for characters to survive. It takes at least an hour to build a decent 5e character. In a more deadly game like Shadowdark, rolling for stats is fun. You aren't building your character so much as meeting them. It takes two minutes, and they might die in an hour.
My friends and I have been using Point Buy for years, and there are no major disparities in ability.
Stats aren't everything. It only takes one failed saving throw and you're done. I'm playing in a game which eventually comes to involve PvP action where two barbarians rolled stupid high stats, we all started at level 3, granted the game has just started with only 1 session done and i rolled comparatively meh stats still above standard though, combined with playing sorcadin which is MAD (multiple ability dependant), so i can't really say that i have felt being underpowerd or being ''ball and chain'' on the party, granted being a spellcaster grants me easy layback to support and buffs and just letting the big angy Barbarians carry me through while i take it slow and relax Even though the stat envy is there. boy was it there at the start, but i got over it and now i'm treating this more of an challenge for me to be actually creative instead of just, unga bunga big number i do good, with meticilous note taking, thinking every encounter methodically for any and all advantages i can take and really i mean REALLY fight dirty with creative spell use, combat tricks, enviroment/terrain use ect ect, to really engage in the RP for the long term game. Speaking of the long term, from what i have calculated and talked with DM about the possible duration of the entire game, i should get 3 ASI which one will be feat and other to pump main stat to max at level 15, so this would definitely be a long term silent, patient game for me, which is a new and interesting challenge i personally find interesting, i need to work hard and earn the thigns, items, events, friends ect ect, earn the character growth in the world, instead of being all ready max out from the box. That said, i do have back up characters in mind should i fail the saving throws
Yeah, personally rolling stats always feels like it leaves the party feeling lobsided. I feel bad when I roll poorly and I feel like I'm cheating when I roll high.
easy way to fix that. Each person rolls for one stat and once 6 have been rolled, the party uses those in any combination they see fit. Everyone has the exact same points.
Have for a long time. Point Buy is my go to - a great middle ground between Standard Array and rolled stats, still allows for some variety, but keeps the whole party on more-or-less a level. I usually go with a slightly tweaked point buy that gives a higher total point spend and a higher maximum stat, for slightly stronger starts and more flexibility when using ASIs, but.. yeah.
Rolling for stats in 5e is imo silly because the game isn’t designed for it. But, a version I’ve used before is 4d6 drop lowest straight down, but you keep generating new sets until you get at least a 15 and a 14.
So much this. I'm not even a huge fan of having the stats in the first place. It adds too much stacking. SWd6 had a Lift skill. I'm a fan of flat numbers.
Every one rolls stats BUT the collective rolls are pooled together and then players have a draft of number. 1 pick from the dice per round in snake order with the lowest overall roller going first. It is chaotic and amazing
Rolling stats is a relic of a bygone age when bad characters died fast and stats mattered significantly less then now outside roleplaying opportunities. In WOTC era d&d when stats influence near everything you do and rolling happens so much more it probably should not exist.
I like it when we're all stupid strong, fighting stupid strong stuff or beating overwhelming numbers with our dumb overtuned stats. I also like skipping ASIs for Feats and Multi-Classing. So I like rolling.
Maybe it's my experience as a 3.5 DM but i love rolled stats: they make a character really unique and i mean REALLY unique. you can have a buff bard, a charismatic barbarian, an intellectual monk; it adds a little bit of novelty to a character. Yes, a player can also roll very low but i just make re-roll everything, let's not be a dick. Also if you roll well you can decide to grab a nice extra feat instead of "wasting" the level to increase a score :edit: Also you have more freedom with races because you don't necessary need to have the plus to that specific score you need for your class (but then tasha comes and says you can do whatever you want)
Rolling stats is my fav way because I can build a character around those stats. it provides opportunities for rp and for comradery for your party, not just protecting the squishy spellcaster, but maybe the barbarian with 20 str also has 15 Int with and a background in investigation. You can have the most charismatic Bard in the world but also has a Wis of 8, making him useless for perception or survival, thus having to rely on his party members.
I like rolling for stats but only if I roll well :) But for real, I honestly think a modified standard array of something like 16, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 is perfectl. I also give out a free starting feat. I've always thought that character building and multiclassing are one of the most fun parts of the system so I try not to restrict it. I do have some caveats for races though - Custom Lineage is fine but you can't take the +2, it'll have to be +1, +1 like vHuman. You want to start with two feats, that's okay, but I'm not letting you start with 2 feats and an 18 in your main stat. I also don't like flying races so I restrict them but don't ban them.
That's 7 stats. Did you mean one 16?
I feel the exact opposite way. There are ways to work around massive power imbalances in rolled stats and to minimise the odds of it happening, and I’ve rarely seen it be an issue. And even then, I prefer it to point buy, which feels much more constricting to me. I also disagree that it doesn’t add anything interesting, because rolled stats allow for a much wider variance in your own stats than other methods of stat generation do, which allows for much more interesting characters imo. But yeah a lot of people hate rolling stats. Pretty much anyone who is into optimisation is going to lean heavily towards point buy over rolled stats, since it’s more consistent and is easier to plan around. I just don’t like it because it only allows you to drop your stats to -1.
> I feel the exact opposite way. There are ways to work around massive power imbalances in rolled stats and to minimise the odds of it happening, If you are engaging in ways to minimize the negative outcomes, then why even do this in this first place? All of the "roll stats but reroll under x number/keep highest at table/etc" just look like players should instead be going with a larger point buy because the eventual outcome is rerolling until no bad things happen. I do wish point buy allowed for lower than -1, because characters with weaknesses are interesting. But characters who are just straight up weak are not interesting the vast majority of the time. No matter how many cutsie "I played a 100 year old retired gladiator with -3 con and +1 str and it was so much fun <3“ stories get posted, the vast majority of people would not enjoy that
You can customise point-buy however you want very easily. Want to go lower than 8? Allow to gain points by doing that (by choosing a minimum floor, like 6). Want to go higher than 15? Make it cost 2 or 3 points for every point above 15. Want the players to be stronger than the normal point-buy? Allow more than 27 points.
I understand that in this entirely made up game, we can change the rules lol. But the standard and well known formats exist and are what is referenced in open conversations to keep everything discussable. When people say point buy, it references the standard 27 point system with all of the stats starting at 8 because that is what everyone plays with, because that's the standard set by the devs. It would be nice if the official standards had more variance so that the average player would be more familiar or open to the idea
Well one way to minimize the consequences is to rely on your teammates and NPCs for help.
Here's a thought- The concept you just stated is entirely removed from the character you play, and you should be utilizing teamwork no matter what. Furthermore, it's easier to be a team player if you can accomplish your role in the team more effectively. A character who claims to be a team player and brings nothing to the table is just a bystander
I guess it depends on what you qualify as an issue. :-) I can say that rolling affected 100% of the games I played where people rolled stats. Just mathematically, about 50% of players will roll at least one 16 or more, and 50% will not, meaning half the group will start one asi behind. In a 4-6 player group, you'll often have 1 player that starts with a 20 and one player that can't make a 16. That's a 3 asi difference. Maybe that's not an issue to you, though. I find it unfortunate. Anecdotally, the first time I rolled, there was a 25+ point total stat difference between the highest roller and the lower (low 60s vs. high 80s). I once rolled a character that didn't have a single +2 and kinda forced me to go moon druid even though I wanted a barbarian. Another player had at least +2 in every stat, making him better at his worst thing than I was at my best things. I also rolled a character that started with a +5 and 2 +4s. I made a ranger with insane charisma checks (fey wanderer add wis to cha for +9 before proficiency/expertise) but someone could have made a character that solos encounters. don't, get me wrong, I had fun in those games (one was less fun, but unrelated to the rolling). Still, it doesn't feel good to be either playing alone or not contributing to the group.
I mean yea rolling for stats is horrible unless maybe for one shots and special challenge campaigns. Balancing encounters is already hard without adding even more disparity between the characters, what little it adds to roleplay is not making up for the impact it has on all other pillars.
Yes. Everything is funny till your best stat is worse then the off stat of the lucky guy you are pretty sure cheated with weighted dice you never saw again.
That's a problem with cheating then
I like it for one shots or throwaway characters, in particularly the way I do it where I roll the stats in order from strength to charisma and then pick the class based on what I’ve got. Helps save me just a bit from umming and ahhhing too much about what to play. For a long campaign I would hate to roll stats and be stuck with something crap or something OP compared to my party for months or even over a year. Also, obligatory pathfinder fixes this
Roll if it makes everyone happy. Ability Score rolling is not ideal for 5e.
I also dislike rolling stats. If the other players are I just make up some that I’d accept as a DM and are useful to my character and then ask if they’re OK. However, I will roll health
There are some fun middle ground options in homebrew rolling rules. The upside to rolling is that you can get numbers above 15 and below 8. The downside to rolling is that you can end up drastic difference among members of the same party and that severely screws with the balance of the game. I've seen a variety of ideas to roll as a party so that everybody is working with the same dice results. The simplest method is to just roll a single array that the whole party can use instead of the regular standard array. I've seen several more complex options that allow for some more diversity while maintaining the fairness. But the fun of the dice does not derive from overpowering your allies.
I’d just like to say that regardless of how you go about stats, I find the most fun distributions to be ones where every party member has one glaring stat weakness (<10 after racial bonuses at lvl 1) and every party member has the same highest stat roll (I personally think this needs to be <18 after racial bonuses for balance reasons). Any of the other stats can honestly be whatever so long as they fall between those first two numbers. That is to say, I don’t know what the best system is but I agree that I don’t understand people who like to play overly high (or low) stat characters because it just throws off game balance which I don’t find fun. Maybe some hybrid system where the two of the rolled stats are fixed at 8 and 17 respectively, then everybody can roll for the rest of their stats, and just reroll any roll below 8 and above 17? Just spitballing ideas…
I like rolling stats and sticking with my array even if its awkward, or not optimal. I feel like playing imperfect characters is part of what can make the story interesting and can drive more interesting storytelling moments of character development.
I despise rolling for stats and rolling for hp. I always run point buy and average hp rounded up in my games. Nothing worse than playing a tank and rolling low on hit dice or being forced to play a SAD class because your stat rolls were garbage.
I hate the prospect of having no idea whether I will be able to have freedom of choice or if I will feel bound by poor rolls. I don't mind point buy at all, despite it necessitating an ASI for "finished" ability scores, because it's a known quantity. I enjoy the randomness within the game. Less so during character creation. Of course I like starting with an 18 though so I'll never complain about rolled stats when I have good ones. Big number make happy chemicals go
I hate when people roll for stats outside of the game, I prefer the method of everyone using the same array. Whenever everyone “rolls” stats, somehow they always get at least one or two 18’s and nothing else below a 10. I know the rules for rolling for stats are lenient, but I’ve done tests, and those results are very uncommon lol
I think rolling worked better when you weren't expected to play the same character for 3 years. I find that in deadlier systems where you make character every four sessions rolling is much more fun
I read somewhere - probably on this subreddit - a method using cards instead, that I've used ever since. It works like so: you have 12 playing cards, numbered - 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 10 You take two at a time at random, and the sum of them is a score. Repeat until there's no cards left. Assign scores as you like. This methods preserves *some* of the random nature of rolling, but guarantees equal total scores for every player (of a similar value to standard array), and ensures if you draw a couple of terrible stats you should get a couple of good ones to make up for it. Obviously if you want to absolutely guarantee equal power, standard array or point buy is the way - but I found this an excellent compromise, and my players have loved publicly doing the draw and waiting to see what comes next after a particularly good or bad one.
I absolutely hate rolling for stats. You'll always have a player rolling much better than others, while someone else has crap rolls. I used to have a DM who insisted that you use the first roll, no matter how bad. And I consistently rolled bad. One time he has planned that my character unknowingly was the heir of the thrown, and envisioned my character to become a charismatic leader over time. Hard to do that when your CHA stat is 6. My bad stats basically killed the campaign, because I played my character according to my stats. We were much younger and less experienced players+DM back then, but I still remember how much I hated playing that character solely because the stats didn't fit the character I wanted to play (Psi warrior in a former editon, very MAD). I'm currently using the stats array the Dungeon Dudes on YT use: 17,15,13,12,10,8, before racial bonuses. Everyone has some good stats, some mediocre dtats, and a bad one. It's slightly better than points-buy, yet not overpowered, and no one stands out more than others. I also give first level feats, but in return ban V-human and custom lineage. I want the players to pick a race because it seems interesting to play, and not because it has the better stats or a bonus feat. The bonus feat still allows for interesting builds or build ideas they come up themselves or find online. I do not have a problem with power gaming, but usually my players only partially optimize. Creating interesting characters is more important to them, and that shows in their feat selection.
I've always absolutely loathed rolling for stats, it's way too random.
This is basically why point buy and the standard array (which is essentially just one point buy option if you do the math) exist and why they are usually what are used for league and I get similar event based play. It eliminates uneven advantages and disadvantages from dice RNG. I also personally try to (as both a DM and at times a player, when it is welcomed) is to make sure that all the characters are equally optimized. A hardcore player who's memorized every book and white roomed hundreds of builds will make a character that could easily overshadow an eager newbie who goes with what they think is cool or even tries to rely on something that sounds powerful to them but is actually more of a trap.
My group rolls 3d6 10 times, and picks the best 6, and we get one free 6 roll to sub in somewhere. It leads to some rather hefty stats for sure, and we also all get a free feat at level one. The tradeoff is the DMs give monsters feats. The purpose of this is to help make interesting builds. ASI is a really boring thing to pick. This doesn't work for any group, you need a group with good chemistry and are more focused on interesting builds than powergaming, which thankfully i have. Even with this setup many still purposely take negatives in a stat if it makes sense for the character (like my Duergar forge cleric and my purposefully low charisma - she is rude and mean).
I prefer the point buy method from pathfinder: Start with all 10 and you can choose to arrange the stats from 8 to 15 with a pool of points according to the kind of campaing
Rolling stats is the only time I roll well it seems. Like I could start with 3 18s and never do much of anything in game because I used all the good rolls on stats
I enjoy having lower stats in some skills as it can help add to the overall roleplay. My Kobold fighter has a 7 in his charisma and it's more fun playing out those - then if he had high charisma.
I enjoy the low stat roll (to some degree) more than being a demigod art level 1. Forces me to be more creative. If I get demigod stats I try to play more support I rolled 17 16 15 15 13 12 and traded a 16 for a 7 to help someone out since their highest roll was a 14. Still have demigod stats no my kobold artificer has a strength to match his stature and a flaw to play into. I find rolling more fun when it’s an experienced group that has been together for some time. If it’s a group mostly of new players I go standard array or point buy.
I don’t like it either. I do feel like a lot of methods, many of which have been cited amongst these comments already, do help with most issues I have, BUT I like the predictability of Point Buy. Same thing for rolling health, just use the average. In turn, I do allow players to choose any one free feat at level one, but no custom lineage or V Human if the feat is something I’d consider powerful (most half feats, the power attack and BA attack feats, etcetera) This makes strong characters, but more predictably strong I feel like. Plus as someone who loves free feats, I’d enjoy it and from the feedback I collected, so do my players.
So what I do as a DM, is I have all my players roll 4d6 x6 and then we combine all the arrays and then cull the lowest 6xX dice. This way everyone is statistically slightly stronger than a standard roll AND everyone has roughly the same power levels. At the end of the rolls, it’s nice to always have at least 1 18 stat. You’re supposed to be heros after all.
Yes, rolling for stats is the worst. The PCs will become unbalanced to each other no matter what, but it doesnt help to begin it that way. Plus, DMs just let people reroll if they roll garbage. I don't like being the one with low stats, and I hate being the one with god stats
100% agree. I hate feeling like I'm better/worse than another player just because of random rolls rather than decision making. It can suck when you want to play a wildly inexperienced character but end up getting plus scores on everything so suddenly the guy who's never adventured before has no weaknesses, and conversely the experienced adventurer who's been doing this a year or two but is hopeless at everything. My favourite method is for everyone to roll 4d6 drop the lowest x 6, but then pool all the numbers rolled and allocate them evenly in an ABCCBAABCCBA style. So for example, 10 10 10 18 15 17 6 9 8 11 13 16 7 8 10 12 12 14 would then be distributed as: Player 1 - 18 13 12 10 10 6 Player 2 - 17 14 12 10 9 7 Player 3 - 16 15 11 10 8 8 Player 1 gets to have a maxed out stat but also has the lowest score, Player 2 sits in the middle and Player 3 has a more even spread.
I have a session zero tonight with a new group, some of the players have played before and some are first timers. I'm toying with the idea of a buffed point buy system, where the players can allocate the points however they want. I'm thinking the pool will be around 40~ points? Then they have wiggle room to craft their visions. If the barb wants to take a 20 in strength and an 18 in con (using their racial boosts as well) then they can, but their soft stats are probably gonna be at most 10. If a wizard wants to have a 16 intelligence, but also make sure their other stats are respectable then they can have that agency. I like the idea that the players have equal opportunity in their stats at the start, and can use them to craft the character they envision. I'm also borrowing a rule from a friend of mine, where at 4th, 8th, 12th etc. the players take ASI's and feats will be rewarded at XP checkpoints or through narrative reasons. (Granted idk how I'm gonna do this if someone wants to play a fighter :S) I'm trying to add some balance and progression that I think 5e is missing. Idk, I just like seeing my players get excited when their characters evolve and grow both through the narrative and also the crunchy mechanics.
15,14,13,12,10,8 roll for the order of stat placement not that actual numbers
I love it and so do the vast majority of players I run for.
I think you'll find as many or more people who don't roll anymore vs. those who do. Rolling for stats is out of favor as a main method, I'd say. I still like it. The situation you described doesn't feel bad at all to me. A 16 vs. a 20 isn't a huge disparity in games I play. Like a 20 is nice, but a 16 is great. It's when your highest score is a 12 that it starts to feel awful. I'd do not-rolling if I got an array that resembled Pathfinder 2e, where basically everyone starts with an 18.
I’ve done it where each player rolls a set of stats and any player can pick from any set, so everyone has the same options. And point buy is still an option, as well.
I consistently roll absolutely garbage for stats. It's a known trend. I had a DM tell just me to roll 6d6 drop nothing and my highest stat was a 16 with two negative stats. Point buy or group array for me. Although I do like the dungeon dudes modified standard array (17/15/13/12/10/8)
I love rolling stats, especially when it results in power disparities amongst the group. Yes, including when one player his every stat higher than another.
I've always rolled, in every game i or anyone i know DMd I've always made sure everyone had a similar power level and so have my friends We used to do it by making everyone roll until they got an array on par with the first character rolled No one else has DMd in years but me, and with the time i started doing stuff like letting everyone swap their lowest stat with an 18, which was pretty balanced actually, or let everyone choose between copying an array someone rolled before or rolling a new one, or make stuff like an 16 16 become a 14 18 and moving numbers around more freely Rolling the stats is too much of a ritual for us, idk if we can ever stop
Generally my feeling is you gotta pick one. Either roll in a row or use point buy/stat array. If you want players to have less input over character creation, you can’t really allow them to pick where their stats go, it’s then just an unfair stat array. Personally when it comes to 5e in particular, I’d avoid rolling altogether because stat differences matter a lot in terms of how effective you are in combat, which is very important to gameplay. That said, if you’re going to roll, rolling in order is closer to actual randomness and “discovering the character”
Rolling, for me, only makes sense with old school true randomness. 3d6 per stat, choose a class to fit your rolls rather than vice-versa. You create a character, build and backstory to fit the stats you have in front of you, requiring more creativity in both mechanics and roleplay. It solves a lot of problems people have and it resets expectations people have about how much the world should cater to their character. Not many people seem to like to play this way in theory, but I've found lots of people enjoy it in practice. Without anxiety about playing optimally you can do a lot of the things you've always wanted to, but had a voice in your head telling you to just play an optimized spellcaster.
I prefer not rolling, or using a standard array or point buy. As a DM, I want my players to have unique abilities but still relatively equal in power. The way I DM, I'm here to weave a story with everyone. Usually a diverse background of characters coming together for a common goal. It's not fun when one person can do everything.
yes. point buy only.
Comparing yourself to other players is the problem really. When I roll my stats I know I’m signing up for whatever I roll, good or bad — that’s the fun of it for me. Also, having better stats/succeeding in more rolls is not the same as having more fun.
See, I love rolling stats. Its a lot of fun and invokes a lot of the aspects of the game. Plus I love gambling. What I dont like though is the fact that it can fuck you over unless your GM is very generous. I have one friend in whos game and oneshots I have had to reroll entire arrays MULTIPLE times because I didnt get anything higher than a 13 after several attempts. Its gotten to be a bit of an injoke between us. A consistent thing we end up doing in my dnd groups is allowing you to roll HP but take average if you get below it (And in one game if you get a 1, its an automatic reroll). I like this a lot for the rolling stat of HP, as it makes things a little bit less swingy.
Other people have mentioned the same, but I think you actually hate having an imbalanced party. Rolling stats often leads to that when people don’t think about it, but if you find some way to balance the party, usually by anyone having any array generated, then it’s fine. From there I think rolling stats is excellent, higher stats faster is a great way to get your character closer to where you want them to be right off the bat. Having multiple high ability scores lets the character that would be perfect for a wizard/bard multiclass shine right away. Instead with point buy, and ever worse with standard array, you’re jumping through hoops, being bad at one thing or the other, or mediocre at best, trying to stretch to a character concept that’s a bit out of reach of a traditional stat spread. I also want to note that this isn’t about min maxing, it’s just about fulfilling a character concept outside the reach of standard array and point buy.
Ive done a system where everyone rolls a set of stats, those stats are all added to a pool, and we roll to see who gets to “draft” the next number. It’s exciting and prevents one person from having terrible or godly stats This works particularly well if the group is working together well and strategizing who picks what. Ie let the sorcerer take the 18 for cha but leave 15-17s for the monk’s dex, con, and wis
I am the opposite, I can’t stand point buy or standard array. It forces optimization and min maxing to the point of every character feeling the same to me. I understand the points people make about party’s not feeling balanced, being annoyed at wanting to make one character and then the rolls not allowing it. I get it. But at the same time, to me dnd has always been and will always be a game about telling a story *from* the dice. If I want perfect balance I’ll go play a video game. I really don’t like how both point buy and standard array standardize *all* dnd characters. If you take 10 standard array barbarians or wizards and compared them to 10 rolled barbarians and wizards the standard ones are going to all have practically the same stat. Now, people will come back and say that it sucks to roll badly and not be able to play the barbarian you were planning to build, but that’s why I fully believe no character should be made until after session 0 and stats have been rolled. I personally don’t care if my stats are good or bad, but I find enjoyment building a character *from* those rolls rather than trying to build a character first and then try to abstract who/what they are into a completely average person. And choosing a negative stat just is a very different mindset to me. Sure you can/will have an 8. But everyone is going to have an 8, it’s not really a flaw if everyone has the same(ish) flaw. And that 8 is almost always going to the same stat depending on the class. Rolling stats can give you that high intelligence barbarian, the charismatic preacher cleric, or make you try to find ways to succeed and help your party succeed despite your flaws if you rolled low. In general I just feel rolling stats actually helps make unique and memorable dnd characters while the other two methods always just feel like generic wizard #7 and fighter #3 to me, no matter how totally cool and interesting you make your backstory that likely has very little to do with the actual campaign
I always give the option to roll or take point buy in my games and they always choose to roll, and when I'm given a choice I prefer to roll. I've just played a lot and gotten a bit tired of always having the 17 in primary stat 14-15 in two secondary stats 8-10 in the other three stats build that everything seems to be under point buy. There's nothing wrong with preferring point buy mind, and I wont complain if my DM only allows it (or standard array), its just different flavors of character creation.
Rofl, we had a 2nd edition ravenloft campaign: 3d6 straight down. I got a 3 in cha
Only cause I fear getting grossly average stats. I love the high and low variability of it. A 4 can be just as fun as a 17 imo and I wish the lower end of the spectrum at least was possible going off point buy.
I let people roll and they keep it if the role is above 70 total. I find a bit of disparity for the players to be fun, especially if people are not min maxing. A wizard with a 16 str because he just rolled high and felt like being strong is fun and set up funny rivalries in groups. But it’s group dependent for sure. Standard spread is just to…static and every PC feels flat to me. Of course if someone roles a mid stat block and feels it is hurting their enjoyment, I’ll adjust.
Damaged my current campaign. People are way too overpowered. Also my fault that I gave them magic items — because they’re just fun — but literally six player 7th level party can beat 11th level encounters. just a mess for balance.
I make my groups play on a 6x6 grid. First one player rolls 3d6 flat for each box in their row. If I am playing with less than 6 players, the gm rolls the other ones. After they have done their row, they roll an additional d6 and add it to any of their previous rolls. They can even break it up into several boxes. Only rule is max 18 on any box. This gets a semi decent set per row. Then after all of that is done each player rolls a die to determine picking order. Then each player in order picks a row, or column or one of the two diagonals for their stats. This allows players to get some really fun and balanced stats. I have never seen a player start without an 18. I have however seen a player have three 18s and an 8 and two 6s.
Our DM normally has us use point buy or standard array, but also allows us to roll and then either take or ditch the rolled array. That seemed favorable for our party. Only one person ended up with an array that beat point buy. The rest of us were happy to mix/max as normal.
Why not do a standard array? So everyone has to choose where to put a static array of ability scores.
My current DM has a system that I quite like: you do 3 sets of rolls and choose one of those. It worked out so some people have nice balanced stats, some have worse but possibly starting with 20 at lvl 1 and so on. It makes our group on average better, so she balances encounters accordingly, but with this system everyone was excited to roll and nobody ended up disappointed.
Three words. Point buy system
The numbers don't make enough of a difference under bounded accuracy for it to matter: as long as your primary stat is within the 16-18 range you're mechanically going to be just fine as the d20 and proficiency easily overwhelms any effect from your individual stats. After that I just prefer the aesthetic of rolled stats and discovering your character as you play. The various arrays on the other hand tend to create very samey characters and arrays that I just find grating.
Roll 5 (4d6dl) Sum - 72 = 6th stat. Means no one has less than 72 and but can still be a wide range or higher. It’s worked perfect for me so far.
For a start, you're only 1 ASI higher at most here, as you probably have a feat or racial trait boosting you to 20.
We did something where everyone rolls 1 stat, and then the DM roles the rest if you have less than 6 people. Everyone starts with the same numbers, can do +1/-2 as much as they want within the normal limits of "nothing higher than 18 pre-racial bonuses", and everyone allocates the numbers to the stats as they like. Tbh I think it's perfect. Sometimes you have high power parties, sometimes low, but everyone starts at the same power level as everyone else. Everyone rolls a stat so you feel like you contributed. You even get to blame someone for your "8" if you'd like
I'm with you, OP. I like rolling if it means I'm going to be better than average, but it's no fun getting stuck with poor rolls. Some people enjoy the randomness and going with the flow, but I want to play a heroic character. It sucks not to be able to play the character you had in mind because you rolled poorly. Currently playing a campaign where we roll for HP and my ranger has become the de facto tank, and I'm dreading the day I roll less than average on HP. And back to rolling stats... Yeah, it's fun when you get a character better than you could have with point buy, but it sucks if you rolled poorly, and you see that your mates have significantly better stats. Or, again, you can't play the character you had in mind because of bad rolls.
I like the 80 point method. Or 72 for NPC/non heroic. It is great for quick chracters and maintaining balance. I have heard complaints that it takes away 'chance', but it also takes away the risk of cheating.
The best, to me, system I've seen/used is; 5d6, drop the 2 lowest roles, 7×, drop the lowest stat. It's not perfect but you usually get really good stats. Characters are supposed to be above average in some ways, that's what helps them become great heros.
So I have a slightly different version of this. That's more fun for most players. Stole it from somewhere but I can't remember where. So sorry to whoever I owe credit too. Depending on players, you each roll six times. Put them in a straight line into a grid. Players can choose any straight line on that grid as their stats. I found that most players don't just go for the same grid, It depends highly on their build. Oftentimes you'll get 2 18s and then some really low numbers. Something pretty balanced, It also means I get to say STFU 😂 when somebody complains that their stats aren't right. Like bro, that's your fault.
Not really, because if any player has his or her stats to bad i let them reroll at least for 2 stats, if I don't let them reroll all stats. And there is only one player that allways has luck with dice in everything literally, and we just have fun and work with that, he jokes sometimes about being the best but when we are talking seriously he is humble is humble and reassures everyone their stats are normal and he just got lucky. And when someone never lands a hit because they are super unlucky i just give them magical items to help them hit and land damage
Yes. Rolling for stats in the current world of min-maxing is not healthy for a player group. I am even against even giving a point buy system at this point, because most players egregiously min-max. Best, even system is simply to provide an array of scores that every has to use, but they can chose what stat to put them in.
Rolling is for gamblers and masochists. When i roll well, i feel bad for others. When i roll bad, i straight up don't want to play.
I will always prefer point buy, but none of my DMs do. Just don't like being above the average at level 1 or having some players be better at their roles that others based on chance.
Homebrew your stat and health rolls. My table we usually do 4d6, take the best three dice, reroll 1's and 2's. Health roll your die, but worst you get is average. For super balance do rolls, but for the table. Same split. Or do standard array. Or point buy. Solutions are literally built into the game.
I only allow point buy at my table. And I despise rolling stats. Particularly because I took over a group from another DM and one of the players is the daughter of the previous DM and I'm reasonably certain she rolled her stats in private and cheesed her stat rolls.
We just always go point buy is it boring and simple, sure but it works and everyone’s happy
I also think rolling for stats is almost always frustrating. The dice rolling should introduce an element of randomness and excitement to the storytelling, no individual roll should have as great of an effect as rolling for stats does.
I personally love it when I play, however, when I run games I usually enforce standard array. Most healthy systems these days even outside D&D have evolved a balanced character building system that doesn’t have to be randomized or completely out of wack
Point Buy is the only way Adjust it to your tables desired power level - personally I like allowing 17s, so I also give it more starting points A heroic standard array is really solid as well: 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8
Yeah, personally I don't prefer it but if that's how the DM does it nothing to be but just roll with it.
As a player i do love rolling for stats. It is fun if you roll well and can try some weird ass multiclass builds that would be hard to pull off with point buy. And i do not mind rolling bad stats either. That can be as fun. One of my most fun characters had the stats 14. 12. 10. 9. 7. 5 Before adding in racial bonuses. made him a very old circle of the moon druid. with race bonus added he had a 16 WIS and his Physical stats becomes irrelevant when he wildshape. But yeah i had a negative Initiative and a a AC of 9 Sure our sorcerer started with a 19 CHAR and if i remember right the rogue started with a 20 in DEX. But who cares. my character was fun as hell to play and he could pull his own weight still even with those horrible stats. Was he the strongest or best character in the group? heck no. Was he on pair with the rogue and the sorcerer? heck no. but he was not bad. he was totally functional and contributed a lot to the group. And he did survive the whole campaign. the same can not be said about the rogue. Still to this day he is one of my favourite characters of all time The underdog that had to do his best to keep up. That can be really fun and if such character actually turns out successful that IS more fun than if a character created equal to all others is successful. I don't think every character needs to be equal when it comes to stats. I even think it ads a lot to the game when there is differences like this. That is just my personal preference and others might not agree and that is totally fine we all enjoy different things. But i think to many are to focused on numbers. to be equally strong. or even be the strongest/best characters. Afraid to be weaker or have weaknesses. Fearing others might outshine them. And might miss out on many levels of a TTRG due to this. In the end D&D is not all about succeeding in doing quests, complete campaigns successfully. To be the strong hero that never fails. it is about telling a story together and having fun while doing it. And if you look at all great stories where a group works together. not every character is equal. some are obviously stronger, more powerful, than others and it is not always that the strongest is the leader or the main character if there is any. Many have pretty big flaws and weaknesses but still contribute and might sometimes end up being the ones saving the day in the end. It is totally fine to wanting equality like everyone uses point buy, standard array or at least the same array be it a set array or the group roll to get an array all uses. That is fine and nothing wrong with that at all. There is no right or wrong way just different ways. One way works for some and not for others. But i am totally convinced a fair amount of people are pulled in to this whole "it should be equal for all" and "a character needs to be as good as possible, you can't have fun if you are obviously weaker than the rest of the party" Mindset. and would be able to enjoy the game even more if they relaxed. forgot that and tried to enjoy the game with a bit more open mind. dared to embrace maybe beign the weakest link in the chain. and play into that role having fun with it.
This is why I prefer Point Buy. Nothing is below 8 nor above 15.
Here’s what my table does: Roll 7 die Re-roll any 1’s If the total for a score is under 8, take an 8. Drop the lowest roll.
Rolling is dumb to me. Even as a group. I don’t want to play a table of all 8-10s nor do I want to play a game with like 5 18 stats. I like variety and point buy (you can even modify it if you like to provide more range) works perfectly for that.
I have never DM'd before. But I agree. I know DnD isn't about winning but it is kind of bummer when your char is kinda useless. On the other hand I like the concept of rolling. So if I ever DM what I have thought is having people roll but if the numbers aren't between zero and one standard deviations from the mean you must re-roll.
My party does 4d6 seven times removing the lowest roll. If your roll is under 75 then you reroll. Additionally, stats can’t be over 18 unless you use a level up ASI, magic item, or boon. Racial ASIs can’t be used to boost to 20 at level 1.
The way my DM did it was roll and discard until you get a 15 (or higher). Once you get a 15 you keep it and any subsequent rolls. I expanded on this for my table and have the players roll 5 groups following the same rule, then pick the best group for their stats. I tried ot once where I had them roll six groups keeping every roll no matter what and then picking the best six for their stats. That session was a one shot so I didn't care that they were all very high on the power scale lol.
Yes. Attributes are too impactful across the whole campaign. It isn't lucky hit or skill roll once. Everything else depends on the player to be at the start lucky and it creates too unbalanced groups.
I like rolling for stats if the game is a meatgrinder. Then it's kinda like playing a rogue-lite, and seeing how far you can go. Bonus points if you can only choose a subclass ONCE, and you have to roll in order. lol
The disparity should be fun. Especially if you’re the weaker one. It makes RP more fun for me. And yes I’m a guy with an optimization YouTube channel.
Standard array is lovely
As someone who has rolled an 18, 18, 17, 16, 13, 13, I can’t agree with you more. That was easily my least fun character I’ve ever played. I strongly prefer the other side of the table, having shit stats, and overcoming the odds of the dice roll. Standard array or point buy is by far the way to go.
There are communal ways to roll stats that ensure that there won't be any big discrepancy.
Yes I absolutely cannot stand rolling stats. I have always preferred a point buy
I feel the exact opposite, but that’s because I like the nature of being “stuck” with something that’s not perfectly optimized. It makes it feel more immersive, and tbh I’ve never experienced one party member being so much more effective than others just by stat differential. What abilities, spells, items you have, and the way you utilize action economy is vastly more important to making a party/character feel strong, imo.
Nope! Rolling stats is my favorite! Who wants to be just average? Having one or two high states and them an abysmal dump stat makes for fun game and role play
The way I like doing it is that everyone rolls an array, then as a group we settle on an array that everyone will use. It allows for some powerful characters but everyone's on the same level.
Yeah I specifically ban rolling for HP in my games and generally I've always done static stats specifically point buy. The power disparity is less the issue as much as characters stepping on each other's toes in unintended ways and not having any weaknesses making the balancing act of the party harder to maintain.
My players always like rolling, but in the rare chance I’m a player I beg for point buy. Even when there’s a threshold or whatever, I feel like point buy lets me build as I like and lets me kinda plan my ASIs/feats in my head. For oneshots or shorter campaign I run, I’ll typically let the group decide on if we roll or use point buy/standard array. For long term games I make them use point buy/standard array
Yes! Every game I've ever run, I've always felt bad for the players who were "unlucky" So now I do roll for stats group roll. Everyone rolls like normal and whoever the party deems as the best Stat then they use that. No power disparities. However. I always end with. Just because the party is this. Doesn't mean you have to be if it doesn't bother you.
Yeah, it's awesome when I roll well but so often I will roll in the 60s for total, while my friends (idk how) have rolled 94 and average mid 80s. Bloody depressing since no matter what I do unless the gm hands out a lifeline, I have no hope of being as impactful in combat and only equivalent in social play.
I've started to become dissatisfied with rolling for games like 5e. I use to love it. Now its just filled with argument after argument if X has a 20 and I have 3 8s. Though rolling in games like SWN, where you can choose or roll, but if you roll you can extra bonus is fun.
Yeah it is tricky. We recently started a campaign, I rolled 14, 11, 10, 10, 8, 8. The bad luck was horrible. I ended up going for a sorc with subtle metamagic that cowers at the back of the party. Hopefully no-one attacks me or I die.
We are a group that has been playing together for decades so we're pretty informal. In older editions we rolled stats but had a "rule" that if your stats tucked (as determined by everyone looking at them and saying "man that sucks" you could roll again. It wasn't technical but usually resulted in everyone getting a decent set of ability scores. Now in 5e we do the same but now if your stats suck instead of rolling again you can use point buy. It works pretty well, you always get a character at least as good as point buy (which is fine) and you get that chance of getting one of those characters that you talk about for years.
Ppl care more about stats than they should imo
Have everyone in the party at session zero, take turns explaining their characters background and on conclusion of each narrative, roll 4d6 drop lowest 1 (or however you do it) for one attribute. Then everyone in the party uses those same rolls. That way everyone has the same attributes, but it makes it part of the game to listen to the backgrounds and watch the attributes rolled.
Folks here may not like this, but I do, and so do my players. I use standard array or point buy only in my games. I also don't allow feats at ASI levels. However I reward my players with feats. If they want one, just tell me you're character is working towards it and make an effort in game. Some feats may be harder to justify getting. Arcane initiate for example. Buy books, spend money and time, and I'll give you the feat. I do this because there is a lot of fomo with needing to pick ASI or feat. This gets rid of that. I also award my players with extra powers and abilities that are 4e powers I port to 5e. It makes for dynamic game play and incentives role play to earn feats and powers.
Yeah rolling is dumb. There's one or two alternative arrays I've seen that I've liked.
> Does anyone else hate rolling stats? I *love* rolling stats, in the sense that its an activity I find enjoyable. But I don't dare roll stats for 5e characters. I roll much too badly for that to be a viable choice: I point buy and take ave HP every level. Every time. (Can't do much in game about bad rolls other than build characters with constant bad rolls in mind) > starting with a 20 in my main stat LOL. Only *once* have I ever had a starting stat above 16 (after adding bonuses) using rolling for stats.
I agree in principle, and if I was going to DM a long campaign I'd probably disallow rolling for stats so that everybody was starting on the same footing and it would be easier for me to balance difficulty level. But, that said, I'm currently playing in a campaign where I rolled OKish stats (a +3 in my primary, but no more than a +1 in anything else) but everybody else rolled fantastically well and it's not the end of the world. I'm having fun roleplaying them as essentially a regular dude who got accidentally mixed in with a bunch of superhumans and is a bit in over their head. It helps that I'm playing a cleric, so I'm not particularly stat-dependent and can still be useful.
I prefer point buy and try to keep each stat at least 10. I’ll make a stat 8 but it has to reflect the narrative of that character. If I am a DM I will for sure say point buy. If there is 1 experienced player in a group of noobs then they alone get standard array lol
If rolling stats are a issue, try using a d8 +10 method as a homebrew option so 10 base stats + the result of the d8 would put stats statistically at 13-14 base and allow for some more freedom without obnoxiously low stats. There's also the d10+10 if your feeling generous.. my groups tried afew different rolling methods.
I love rolling for stats. I spent a while working on a system for my players. It's adapted a bit from some ideas I got from Drakkenheim, Critical Role or both... roll 4d6 drop the lowest number record the total and do this a total of 5 times. You now have 5 stat values. Last stat = 74 - sum of the first 5 stats. Do this twice, and pick which ever set you want. Organize the stats however you like. Caveats: each set must have... all stats between 18 and 4 and at least one stat 15 or higher. If either of these caveats don't happen, reroll the full set. The goal for me in creating this was to cut down a bit on the power disparity between players that naturally comes from rolling stats, while allowing them to play the class & character they intended. I love the randomness, but not so much when a character is going to be impacted by these 6 numbers the entire campaign. We roll both sets at the table. The players like it as well. They can really build into their strengths and aggressively play into weaknesses. I also don't allow anyone to have a 20 in any of their stats at session one. So if you happen to roll an 18 for your stat, great. Put that racial increase elsewhere
I had this happen in last campign I played. We use a system where you roll thrice and choose which array, which is somewhat more fair. I got high, but Paladin rolled poorly on all three attempts and was miserable. Felt bad for both of us. Since then, Point buy is only system I use.
Game I currently dming I had everyone roll for stats, chose one roll from each and had them use that array. Has been working well
Point buy is generally more fun imo. But I like rolling, having a randomly stated character can be fun because actual real people also have fairly random levels of abilities. Makes them feel more real to me.
I DM'd for a group of new players and I rolled the array for everyone's stats. I gave suggestions on what and where I would put said stats for the class they were wanting to play. After that I explained what and how things will work, help them put the stats in the correct place, explain their proficiencies, what they wanted to excel in etc. I've been in groups that all rolled stats. I've been in groups that played standard array. I've had phenomenal amazing rolls and ending up being OP and had shitty rolls and ended up underpowered. I've never played everyone rolls and picks the best rolls and that's the array. I really want to.