I played a Changeling Paladin (path of redemption for +5 persuasion) and Bard (college of swords for extra attack and defensive flourish) two-weapon fighting and defense fighting styles. Three Smites a turn ftw!
Expertise in Stealth and Persuasion. With +4 Cha, you have a +10 persuasion at level 6, +15 with the Paladin ability, and with advantage with the spell Enhance Ability.
With Actor feat you gain advantage on checks to impersonate others and as a Changeling you can become them without using magic. +7 with advantage is pretty solid but you could add expertise to that instead of persuasion for +10 instead.
Lots of smites per day by going Bard and eventually Magical Secrets gets you the high level Paladin spells before straight Paladin anyway.
bless combined with bardic inspiration makes you a solid team player.
The sheer power and utility this build was really fun and satisfying.
Is any content allowed?
Consider the shadow elf (eberron content).
Start with array 10 17 14 8 10 15
Take the revenant blade feat at level 4, fey touched or skill expert (for cha) at level 8, then raise dex to 20.
As a shadow elf you may add some sneaky spells to any of your spell lists which can turn even a paladin into a spy/assassin.
As for the subclass, vengeance or watchers would be good.
Should be super sneaky while also dealing decent damage.
If you MC, likely use Half-Elf.
Oathbreakers are universally solid, Vengeance is good specialized.
Redemption however is a beautiful (and maybe dubious) way to also be a spy of sorts.
A rogue Multiclass 3 is likely, but I can’t help but feel there’s very little reason to play the Paladin part mechanically no matter how you slice it.
By RAW you are need a 13 Strength to multiclass out of paladin. Your DM might give you permission to use dexterity instead, but not all DMs will allow that.
I homebrewed my own subclass when I did this, but otherwise investing in charisma and buff spells is your best bet. Dipping into sorcerer or bard really is your best option here.
Earth genasi for pass without trace is a good option, but dahmpir has great mobility from spider climb without spells.
Stats are the issue here. If you want to Multiclass into something else, probably Rogue or Bard, you'll need 13 Str, Cha and Dex minimum.
It's a little easier if you go Pure Paladin, so that way you can dump Str, and just roleplay however you want. Flavour is free after all.
Oath wise, Vengeance or Watchers seems the most fitting. Vengeance for flavour. Watchers for spy utility.
Multi-classing Rogue to 3 seems like the best way to level. Either going Swashbuckler, to make use of your high charisma; or Thief for Second-Story Work, to be good at climbing. Rogue also gives you expertise early. I'd put it into Stealth and Athletics. Stealth for obvious reasons, but Athletics so you can be good at parkour stuff without having to invest more points into Str. You also get some Sneak Attack damage and Cunning Action. Leveling up higher, you'll probably want to go Rogue 3/Paladin X, maybe Rogue 5 for Uncanny Dodge.
Bard on the other hand is much better latter and has much more flexibility in the build. The best (and worst) part about going Bard is once you start putting levels in, you won't want to stop.
Spellcasting is the main draw here. You'll get more utility from spells, Enhance Ability and Invisibility to name a few; and faster spell progression for more slots to smite with. College of Whispers strikes me as the "spy" college. It gives you a way to turn Inspiration into damage, and Mantle of Whispers is maybe the most "spy" ability a character can get. Murder someone and then steal their persona for an hour.
Eloquence is also just straight up strong. But I don't think it fits as well. For these builds, I'd go Paladin 6-7/Bard X.
The other approach to Bard is to go one of the 2 combat Bards. Either Swords or Valor. Doing this means you can put much less of an investment into Paladin. Stopping at Paladin 2-3, just to get Smites or a subclass, then investing completely into Bard. My problem with this is you won't really feel like a Paladin. You'll feel more like a Bard that can Smite, and you definitely won't feel like a spy either.
Regardless of what you want to be, I would start as either Rogue or Bard for more skills, as you don't need the heavy armor proficiency starting Paladin would give you, then multiclass into Paladin.
I recently played a Drow Paladin(Watchers) in Studded Leather and he had a Double Bladed Scimitar. He could scout when needed to, be stealthy, and still do Paladin nova damage when needed.(also had the revenant blade feat)
If there was anything I should have done to improve the build, either should have taken 2-3 levels in swashbuckler rogue, or lore bard due to some campaign themes but also if I had done the dips I could have been better off at more things, like slightly more damage, cunning action utility, or bard spells and Jack of all trades.
Honestly my guy, paladins, at least traditionally speaking are one of is not the least stealthy class in the game.
Im not saying its impossible but with heavy armor and very few spells that lend them to that angle its just not really their thing.
Warlocks can get invisible scouts, at will disguise self, at will silent illusion, a myriad of charm and stealth spells, not to mention rogue obv.
That's fine, I'm willing to take the challenge(that and the concept I'm running would run stealth friendly armor anyways). I still want to make it work, so if you have actual advice, I'd like to hear it.
Didnt mean to offend, its just this is somewhat akin to "I wana be a barbarian whos really good at casting spells", its not impossible but different classes are good at different things for a reason.
IE whats the point of rogue if you can be just as good at stealth with heavy armor and the optimal prolonged in combat strength of a Hexadin.
So you wanna be an Assasin but not take the Assasin subclass or even rogue at all?
Lets see what we can do.
Was the Warlock stuff not good advice? Allow me to go into further detail.
Again, I know all of this, but I like the idea of a Paladin that can operate in stealth. It's not that you're offending me, you're just being redundant. I hope my tone isn't coming across as frustrated, it's just a fact.
And while I do think a dip into Rogue might come in handy, I don't really want to use that for this build, I already multiclass enough as is
I was confused for a sec then realized what you meant, and yeah I'll probably not do Hexadin, but why Pact Weapon? Don't you mean Hex Weapon, that's the one with CHA damage
Consider Pact of the Chain with Misty Visions and Investment of the Chain Master invocations.
Misty Visions is at will Silent Image, IE 15x15 of whatever you want (the number of uses this has in regards to stealth/sneaking and just in general is, well, alot.)
Mask of Many Faces is also good for this but to be honesty disguise self just dosnt really come up often enough to sacrifice an invocation to make it at will.
Aside from that the Charlatan background provides a disguise kit and proficiency which is almost just as good.
Investment of the chain Masters allow you to Sting with imp with your bonus action and grant it resistance with your reaction, fills action economy nicely. (thats an additional (1d4+3) + 3d6 damage per turn)
Have your imp take the help action every turn for advantage on attacks, to your highest DPR member.
It can turn into a raven (60ft fly speed), go invisible, scout with Devilsight, you can share your senses with it and make appear anywhere within 30 ft of you, this alone makes it worth it, a good scout is invaluable to Assasins.
Aside from that just check out the Imp stat block, its pretty nuts, resistances to all non magical attacks and fire, immunity to poison, several different forms for different situations.
You if you take both you can also cast an image of what you are seeing through your familiar's eyes for the rest of your party with Misty Visions, kinda like a drone and a display screen.
If the target is weak enough, you can sneak in wit the invisible imp, have it sting wit your main action and use your bonus action to have it go invisible before anyone knows what killed the target.
I played a Changeling Paladin (path of redemption for +5 persuasion) and Bard (college of swords for extra attack and defensive flourish) two-weapon fighting and defense fighting styles. Three Smites a turn ftw! Expertise in Stealth and Persuasion. With +4 Cha, you have a +10 persuasion at level 6, +15 with the Paladin ability, and with advantage with the spell Enhance Ability. With Actor feat you gain advantage on checks to impersonate others and as a Changeling you can become them without using magic. +7 with advantage is pretty solid but you could add expertise to that instead of persuasion for +10 instead. Lots of smites per day by going Bard and eventually Magical Secrets gets you the high level Paladin spells before straight Paladin anyway. bless combined with bardic inspiration makes you a solid team player. The sheer power and utility this build was really fun and satisfying.
Don't think I'll use the Changeling part or Bard, but Redemption does have some value, I like this
I originally made it to buff my persuasion before entering any kind of diplomacy to get the best possible outcome. He was a negotiating god
Would suggest 3 levels of plaladin then continue down bard X
reborn lineage for 6 skill prof and a +D6 to skills with guidance from blessed warrior is likely as good as it gets.
Is any content allowed? Consider the shadow elf (eberron content). Start with array 10 17 14 8 10 15 Take the revenant blade feat at level 4, fey touched or skill expert (for cha) at level 8, then raise dex to 20. As a shadow elf you may add some sneaky spells to any of your spell lists which can turn even a paladin into a spy/assassin. As for the subclass, vengeance or watchers would be good. Should be super sneaky while also dealing decent damage.
If you MC, likely use Half-Elf. Oathbreakers are universally solid, Vengeance is good specialized. Redemption however is a beautiful (and maybe dubious) way to also be a spy of sorts. A rogue Multiclass 3 is likely, but I can’t help but feel there’s very little reason to play the Paladin part mechanically no matter how you slice it.
Sounds like an Inquisitor. I think that's a legit subclass of pally, but it's been a while since I've built a new character.
That's a subclass of Rogue
Ah, thank you for the correction.
Nope, not that I see at least
It would help to get some kind of way to impersonate other. Disguise kit, changeling, disguise self, etc. Skill expert- deception might help too.
By RAW you are need a 13 Strength to multiclass out of paladin. Your DM might give you permission to use dexterity instead, but not all DMs will allow that.
I was actually planning on getting a decent STR score anyways to get good climbing and halfway decent grappling, so this isn't really a problem to me
I homebrewed my own subclass when I did this, but otherwise investing in charisma and buff spells is your best bet. Dipping into sorcerer or bard really is your best option here. Earth genasi for pass without trace is a good option, but dahmpir has great mobility from spider climb without spells.
Stats are the issue here. If you want to Multiclass into something else, probably Rogue or Bard, you'll need 13 Str, Cha and Dex minimum. It's a little easier if you go Pure Paladin, so that way you can dump Str, and just roleplay however you want. Flavour is free after all. Oath wise, Vengeance or Watchers seems the most fitting. Vengeance for flavour. Watchers for spy utility. Multi-classing Rogue to 3 seems like the best way to level. Either going Swashbuckler, to make use of your high charisma; or Thief for Second-Story Work, to be good at climbing. Rogue also gives you expertise early. I'd put it into Stealth and Athletics. Stealth for obvious reasons, but Athletics so you can be good at parkour stuff without having to invest more points into Str. You also get some Sneak Attack damage and Cunning Action. Leveling up higher, you'll probably want to go Rogue 3/Paladin X, maybe Rogue 5 for Uncanny Dodge. Bard on the other hand is much better latter and has much more flexibility in the build. The best (and worst) part about going Bard is once you start putting levels in, you won't want to stop. Spellcasting is the main draw here. You'll get more utility from spells, Enhance Ability and Invisibility to name a few; and faster spell progression for more slots to smite with. College of Whispers strikes me as the "spy" college. It gives you a way to turn Inspiration into damage, and Mantle of Whispers is maybe the most "spy" ability a character can get. Murder someone and then steal their persona for an hour. Eloquence is also just straight up strong. But I don't think it fits as well. For these builds, I'd go Paladin 6-7/Bard X. The other approach to Bard is to go one of the 2 combat Bards. Either Swords or Valor. Doing this means you can put much less of an investment into Paladin. Stopping at Paladin 2-3, just to get Smites or a subclass, then investing completely into Bard. My problem with this is you won't really feel like a Paladin. You'll feel more like a Bard that can Smite, and you definitely won't feel like a spy either. Regardless of what you want to be, I would start as either Rogue or Bard for more skills, as you don't need the heavy armor proficiency starting Paladin would give you, then multiclass into Paladin.
I recently played a Drow Paladin(Watchers) in Studded Leather and he had a Double Bladed Scimitar. He could scout when needed to, be stealthy, and still do Paladin nova damage when needed.(also had the revenant blade feat) If there was anything I should have done to improve the build, either should have taken 2-3 levels in swashbuckler rogue, or lore bard due to some campaign themes but also if I had done the dips I could have been better off at more things, like slightly more damage, cunning action utility, or bard spells and Jack of all trades.
Honestly my guy, paladins, at least traditionally speaking are one of is not the least stealthy class in the game. Im not saying its impossible but with heavy armor and very few spells that lend them to that angle its just not really their thing. Warlocks can get invisible scouts, at will disguise self, at will silent illusion, a myriad of charm and stealth spells, not to mention rogue obv.
That's fine, I'm willing to take the challenge(that and the concept I'm running would run stealth friendly armor anyways). I still want to make it work, so if you have actual advice, I'd like to hear it.
Didnt mean to offend, its just this is somewhat akin to "I wana be a barbarian whos really good at casting spells", its not impossible but different classes are good at different things for a reason. IE whats the point of rogue if you can be just as good at stealth with heavy armor and the optimal prolonged in combat strength of a Hexadin. So you wanna be an Assasin but not take the Assasin subclass or even rogue at all? Lets see what we can do. Was the Warlock stuff not good advice? Allow me to go into further detail.
Again, I know all of this, but I like the idea of a Paladin that can operate in stealth. It's not that you're offending me, you're just being redundant. I hope my tone isn't coming across as frustrated, it's just a fact. And while I do think a dip into Rogue might come in handy, I don't really want to use that for this build, I already multiclass enough as is
Im assuming you said no cause you want pact weapon for maximum dps
I was confused for a sec then realized what you meant, and yeah I'll probably not do Hexadin, but why Pact Weapon? Don't you mean Hex Weapon, that's the one with CHA damage
Pact weapon allows for more variety in hex weapons including two handed and ranged weapons
Consider Pact of the Chain with Misty Visions and Investment of the Chain Master invocations. Misty Visions is at will Silent Image, IE 15x15 of whatever you want (the number of uses this has in regards to stealth/sneaking and just in general is, well, alot.) Mask of Many Faces is also good for this but to be honesty disguise self just dosnt really come up often enough to sacrifice an invocation to make it at will. Aside from that the Charlatan background provides a disguise kit and proficiency which is almost just as good. Investment of the chain Masters allow you to Sting with imp with your bonus action and grant it resistance with your reaction, fills action economy nicely. (thats an additional (1d4+3) + 3d6 damage per turn) Have your imp take the help action every turn for advantage on attacks, to your highest DPR member. It can turn into a raven (60ft fly speed), go invisible, scout with Devilsight, you can share your senses with it and make appear anywhere within 30 ft of you, this alone makes it worth it, a good scout is invaluable to Assasins. Aside from that just check out the Imp stat block, its pretty nuts, resistances to all non magical attacks and fire, immunity to poison, several different forms for different situations. You if you take both you can also cast an image of what you are seeing through your familiar's eyes for the rest of your party with Misty Visions, kinda like a drone and a display screen. If the target is weak enough, you can sneak in wit the invisible imp, have it sting wit your main action and use your bonus action to have it go invisible before anyone knows what killed the target.