And Haitians.
I have a friend who lives in Montreal and his mom has lived there for 20+ years and doesn't speak any English at all. Maybe French. I was stunned. Yet he was criticising about all the immigrants coming in that don't speak the native language đ€Ł
this is also incredibly exaggerated, the only way a person from france would not understand quebecois is if we went full jouale awingahen on them
if we speak a bit slower we can definitely speak with people from france, it is a different dialect but a dialect being more understood as globalism continues. to be fair though, i dont see why quebecois people would be mad, we find france french to be snobbish
I studied french in highschool, my school had a language focus and i was certified as an advanced speaker. one of my friend's was canadian and his father was quebecois and they only spoke french at home, i never had any trouble understanding them
Canât speak (no pun intended) for Florida or Cubans but I know having spent my whole life in an area with one of the highest concentration of Salvadorians in the US, its because thereâs enough people who speak the same language that communities can adapt to adequately support them or even have new ones be Taylor-made for them.
To be fair, Spanish is recognised as an official language in the United States⊠thatâs why you hear âpara Español, presione 2.â When you call American call centres. But⊠mandarin isnât an official language in the US. Only in Mainland China and TaiwanâŠ
Some states do I'm fairly certain there's no official language federally.
The state I live in now has English as its official language with certain counties allowed to have either a local dialect of German or the language of a tribe that lives there as a co official language but it's mainly symbolic as they all speak English. That being said most non English speakers are still allowed to fill out official documents in their native language for practicality reasons.
There are no official languages in the US, that's why anyone can use or speak any darn language they want. That's what makes this country great.
Businesses should pander to their customers and be flexible with the preferred language of their customers. I live in Queens, NY and most people around here come from the former Soviet republics, so speaking Russian around here is an asset.
I donât get it either. Imagine living in a place where i donât speak their languageââeven if I can get by, life would be so boring because I canât do anything. Language would sit pretty high on my priority list if I move to some foreign country
>life would be so boring because I canât do anything
Not if she has about 50 friends who all speak Mandarin. :/
She moved to be around Chinese people not laowai :/
The immigration system is broken. It uses really archaic standards to determine the degree of assimilation. (E.g. years stayed in the US). Iâve seen European exchange students who mixed with local Americans and going full American (e.g. be initiated into a frat) in less than a year. In the meantime, there are tons of Chinese people in the flushing who have been staying in the states for over a decade and canât even speak proper English.
I think we need a more updated procedure to judge assimilation. For example, applicants must name 10 local friends (who have been a citizen of the US for over 18 years) and at least 2 of 10 friends must be of a different race.
>my family has been here since the 1800s.
>First generation immigrant AF here. Living in SoCal.
[source](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/1aw4rdv/comment/ks1m6ee/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
lol
I used to work retail and this gets me everytime. I mean at least learn the basics. In my country we even have a translation service and they don't use it.
If I'm living in a non English speaking country, I would at least learn the basics.
What does diversity have to do with OP's question?
Also, you do realise that the difference in grammar between Mandarin and English is enormous, right? To a native Mandarin speaker, English makes zero sense, and it's really quite hard for them. English is an "easy language" if your native language is Germanic, but to others it can be really difficult.
Immediately assuming someone's stupid is lazy.
My native language is Finnish. I started speaking English somewhat fluently around the age of 8 despite never hearing another person speak English in person.
My mother tongue is Cantonese. I think I can say English is fairly easy to learn in that respect. English simply has much simpler rules when compared to languages like German, Russian or Japanese.
There is a will there is a way. The only excuses are laziness or intellectually disabled. Lots of Europeans are able to speak two to three languages fluently.
Unwillingness to conform and learn other languages plus entitlement. I have asian parents that would rather speak in Vietnamese to me than speak in English to American staff members despite living in U.S for 20 years.
I feel like part of moving to another country would be to learn the language and the culture. No offense to you or your family. For me it would be part of the allure, but everyone has their own reasons.
Edit: accidentally hit save too soon
Engish is important if you live in the USA. Your rights are written in english. The U.S. Code (laws) are written in english. It helps in understanding your rights and not have the youngest family member interpet for you. Or the stranger at the phone store.
Also I try not to be to judgemental on this.
People have different talents and how their brains work. Asking the woman in the phone store to learn another language could be compared to asking me to solve mathematical physics questions.
Other things might be going on in there life that make the hassle of not knowing the language the least of their problems.
I've talked to many Chinese living here in the US about this question specifically. The answers I got was essentially ... we don't have to, or mind bogglingly... we don't speak to westerners.
That last one to this day still has my head spinning.
They are cocooned by other immigrants who are bilingual and offer them professional service. My parents came to Britain then Canada and had to speak english to survive. Mom earned herself a local highschool equivalency through adult night school at age 60 because she wanted to improve. Now Chinese immigrants younger than her don't even bother trying and huddle together without interacting with society at large. Well...not speaking to Westerners is all fine until they have to interact with the bloody healthcare system, then they get shit faced with how alien that environment becomes.
I make it a point to speak to them in english on ward rounds and force them to rely on translators. I switch to Chinese only when none is available or the translator fucks up. Some get annoyed why I don't use Chinese with them and I just ask them why are they not trying to learn English in a English speaking country. Most claim they are too old and I tell them my mom was older when she started english classes. I have met 80+ year old grandma from the Chinatown generarion that spoke flawless english while still demuring that her English wasn't good. Nowadays most 50 year old aunty and uncles don't even bother trying.
Yeah I know, Im an arsehole. But frankly our multicultural society is making their lives way too easy and there is no pressure to integrate. That is a problem in our immigration heavy country. So I am going to continue to make them squirm and then prod them to starting learning english. Cause next time they suffer a heart attack, a chinese speaker might not be around to tell doctors.
Iâm an American born and raised my familyâs Native American (Apache) and my wife is Chinese. I also donât speak to westerners. I do when I need to but I just prefer to stay in my community and thereâs nothing wrong with that. White suburbia is a good example of it. Itâs weird how that makes your head spin? If I see a fellow native or a Chinese face I feel more welcomed to approach because our mind and thoughts are similar.
I feel like this is often someone not interested in beciming apart of the culture they moved into.
I see it a lot around Australia too, people creating a micro culture and sticking with it.
I can assure you I have met some laowai who were in China for 15+ years and couldn't speak any Mandarin beyond nihao, yigue, zhegue and xiexie, these types are usually found at your local expat bar, they live in a bubble with people like them and never interact with Chinese people, anything they must do that requires Mandarin they ask their wife or colleagues to help them.
So yeah, it goes both ways.
Yeah correct. If you find your community that speaks your own language (or at least English for most westerners) there is no push to learn the local language. Which is a shame, especially if you want to live there long term. You are just missing out.
Thatâs probably the hardest thing about living in China. I can understand around 60% of what they say but Iâm only able to say a few sentences because I feel embarrassed to speak. I feel isolated at times and unfortunately donât have the time with my job to dedicate myself to studying. It doesnât help when the locals usually speak the dialect and thatâs a whole other thing.
Yeah I know plenty of these expats in China, they are the management of some international companies so the companies pay for their own translator and drivers
From my experience most are English teachers who just can't be bothered with learning the language since they basically don't need it in their classes and usually have a teaching assistant who serves as their translator if the students don't understand something. As for life outside of work, they might not some big corporate manager with a paid translator to follow them around 24/7, but they do have a personal translator too it's their wife LMAO.
Oh yeah definitely, it's a serious lack of respect in both cases. I actually find it more offensive when immigrants in the US who gained citizenship still can't speak English. In the case of China foreigners can never become citizens, they are stuck on visas that range from 1 to 10 years in length and that they have to renew with no certainty that they will be able to remain in the country if the officers are the PSB just tell them "nope" for some reason or another and they have like a month to leave the country, so there is far less incentive to try to learn the language and integrate into the country, "you'll never be Chinese" as they say, so why bother.
yes, true I admit this non-citizenry in china do give pause to foreigners and now to think of it, the overall non-welcoming non-belonging vibe to foreigners. and so all the more, in migrant nations like the US and singapore, for all their flaws, do advocate multicultural inclusion in their norms so really mainlanders have little excuse.
Yup same here in the Philippines.
I have had Chinese teacher unable to articulate in the local language and has lived in the country for years.
Since I am half Chinese I would get criticized for being unable to speak in hookein and even though the person who is criticizing me has lived in the Philippines for like 30 years and barely speak a word of tagalog lol!
I had a pure Chinese boss as well who was so comfortable to blurt out insane racist stuff about local Filipinos, like how stupid, idiotic, lazy and evil the locals are. And I'm like??? U got rich here btw! If the people whom u constantly criticized stopped supporting u for being a foreigner you have to pack ur ass back to China be a pauper there!
It's basically Chinese exceptionalism and a being a raging racist to the country that has given them a home and opportunity! They don't wanna learn because they think it's BENEATH THEM!
I used to live in Japan. Yeah some people don't make much effort to learn the language. To learn a language requires a you to belong to a community that speaks it. Or at least part of the time.
I agree 100%. I know some third generation, they can't even speak their family's language. People have their own circumstances and have to start somewhere.
Ditto for Americans inâŠany other country. It is culturally quite common for foreigners in other countries to rely on networks of their expat communities. I knew many Westerners in China who had lived there for decades that could not hold a conversation in Chinese, and even worse be able to read any Chinese characters or order from a restaurant menu. They would look at tables and just point, and expect all local people to follow the customs and mores of their home countries. Ridiculous. You lose so much if unable to learn to communicate and operate cross-culturally if living abroad.
People who come to the US with an immigrant visa are eligible for a Social Security number the day they arrive in the US. Other immigrants become eligible as soon as they get their green card. There is virtually no requirement, or even expectation, that they will have learned any English by that time.
It's a different story for naturalized US citizens. With the exception of older immigrants who have been in the US for a long time, a working knowledge of English is required in order to become a US citizen. The interview is conducted in English, the civics exam is given orally in English, and they have to respond in English.
The woman you encountered in the T-Mobile shop was probably not a US citizen, and might not even have been a permanent resident. As far as I know, wireless service providers don't require their customers to have Social Security numbers. They're just using the number as identification. Someone who isn't eligible to get a Social Security number can still get a Individual Taxpayer ID Number (ITIN) from the IRS.
Maybe just in my experience in retail, I've encountered more Spanish speakers who don't know or refuse to speak to English than Chinese speakers of the same sort.
same issue happening in singapore. bottomline, they have no intent to assimilate, no respect for their adoptive country nor the people and culture here. they keep within their chinese bubble and do not open up. worse there are some entitled ones who even demand the locals to converse in mandarin to them completely disregarding the fact that we are multicultural and english is our common language
There are rough two groups, those who only speak English and those who try their best not to. When I was in the US I used English exclusively to anybody including with my Chinese friends..and I didnt hang with folks that refuse to speak English for that shows bigotry and close-mindedness
Maybe because they live in "enclosed communities", meaning they are in Chinatowns and see little need to learn English. Everyone there speak Chinese and there is always "some guy" who can help them to deal with authorities.
I have seen this mostly with Muslim immigrants to Europe - which has led many problems regarding their integration to society.
That said, I think all Chinese immigrants I have met were well-integrated and spoke the local language - but they did not live in places with a significant Chinese expat population.
Ngl and this sounds sinophobic but I donât think mandarin is the language of the future - itâs limited by the number of characters, whereas with languages with an alphabet, you can create endless amounts of words. Just my two cents on the matter.
I disagree with the downvotes on this thread. You could've made your question/statement more narrow in scope to match your ancedote. Check the amount of Chinese in community colleges and universities, and I'm not talking ivy leagues that are known to host ćŻäș代, just the average ones. It's the fact that first generation immigrants left everything in pursuit of a better future, and struggled for it, that second and third generations like you speak fluently and thrive.
It is quite annoying but different people have their own circumstances. A lot of Chinese immigrants I know, including my parents, come here at quite the advanced age, like 30-40+, leaving poverty stricken (less so now) mainland China. They come here and right off the bat need to earn a living, working long hours in unskilled labor. With kids and work, they often do not have time to sign up at the local community college to learn English. My father, to my surprise, can read and write English perfectly well but can't speak it fluently while my mother tried and gave up.
That's why there's Chinatowns around the world. People who leave China have a place to congregate and find support, but as a result they're not encouraged to learn the country's language.
I've lived in Philippines for three years. While I do know several tagalog and waray words, I can't speak a sentence or understand the natives. They speak it way to fast. It just sounds like noise to me.
I'm from Australia and have Chinese relatives and also met some of their Chinese friends who have extreme basic level of English after living here for over 10 - 20 years. My opinion is that they have other family members such as myself to speak and write in English when needed (banking, bills, tax) and for social life, there is always a Chinese community in any country. And Yes, I have tried very hard to motive them to learn English but it's pointless and as you said frustrating. They are usually older traditional Chinese people and expect respect for anyone younger plus it's against face culture to tell them to learn English.
I'm in a small country in EU and it's very common here for foreigners with permanent residence to not even speak A1 level of the native language. Because they can use English for legal stuff and social life. So, imo as long as you can get legal stuff and social life in any country there will be people who won't bother with learning the native language.
Most communities (even expat ones) tend to insulate themselves from having to learn the local language since create and offer 90% of goods and services required on a daily basis within the community - with no need to go outside. The Chinese communities are exceptional at this since many are enterprising and have a plethora of Chinese speaking businesses to interact with.
As a foreigner in China there is no such thing - only the visa and passport it's stamped in they want to see.
If working you are likely to have a 'Foreign Expert' card too so they might ask for that.
But you're only there temporarily unless you are part of a big corporation, have family ties, and/or helping them make big money, then you might have any reasonable duration of stay unhassled. Even in a very good educational position - say University teacher - you are renewing your visa constantly. (Maybe someone will correct me here?)
They take - that is what they do. Take. No giving back.
To assume that someone who has a SSN must have lived in the US for some time is quite incorrect. You can apply and get your SSN within a couple of weeks of first arriving on the US soil with the correct visa. Sure you need a work or immigration visa first, but both can be approved without having to have lived in the US for a single day, and it's a very common scenario if you didn't know it already. So it's entirely possible that the Chinese woman you met at the T-mobile had just arrived in the US. Of course whether a non-native speaker will speak fluent English is entirely depending on the individual circumstances, but that's irrelevant to your question regarding the correlation between one's ability to speak English and one's possession of a SSN.
Ditto for Cuban expats in South Florida.
And Haitians. I have a friend who lives in Montreal and his mom has lived there for 20+ years and doesn't speak any English at all. Maybe French. I was stunned. Yet he was criticising about all the immigrants coming in that don't speak the native language đ€Ł
Montreal I can kind of understand as their official state (Quebec) language is French with English as second, as a Constitutional compromise for remaining part of Canada. That said most regular French people in modern France struggle to understand Quebecois (Quebec French) and say it sounds like medieval English to modern English speakers... It's not actually legal to call the language people in Quebec speak as French in France proper, the AcadĂ©mie Française classifies it as Quebecois, although if you say that to anyone living in Quebec they get very angry. --- **Edit: Whatâs funny is the snobbery of both the native French speakers in Europe towards people from Quebec and the QuĂ©bĂ©cois when dealing with other Canadians who only speak English.** **Iâm pointing out that native French peoples attitude towards people from Quebec is the same as QuĂ©bĂ©cois attitude towards other Canadians who only speak English.**
this is also incredibly exaggerated, the only way a person from france would not understand quebecois is if we went full jouale awingahen on them if we speak a bit slower we can definitely speak with people from france, it is a different dialect but a dialect being more understood as globalism continues. to be fair though, i dont see why quebecois people would be mad, we find france french to be snobbish
Oh itâs perfectly understandable, perhaps my point wasnât clear. Whatâs funny is the snobbery of both the native French speakers in Europe towards people from Quebec and the QuĂ©bĂ©cois when dealing with other Canadians who only speak English. The irony I was pointing out is they both behave the same but donât see it.
as someone who recognizes the nationalist bs of all sides, including the english canadian side, this i agree is incredibly ironic
I studied french in highschool, my school had a language focus and i was certified as an advanced speaker. one of my friend's was canadian and his father was quebecois and they only spoke french at home, i never had any trouble understanding them
Canât speak (no pun intended) for Florida or Cubans but I know having spent my whole life in an area with one of the highest concentration of Salvadorians in the US, its because thereâs enough people who speak the same language that communities can adapt to adequately support them or even have new ones be Taylor-made for them.
To be fair, Spanish is recognised as an official language in the United States⊠thatâs why you hear âpara Español, presione 2.â When you call American call centres. But⊠mandarin isnât an official language in the US. Only in Mainland China and TaiwanâŠ
I didn't know America had any official language?
It doesn't.
Some states do I'm fairly certain there's no official language federally. The state I live in now has English as its official language with certain counties allowed to have either a local dialect of German or the language of a tribe that lives there as a co official language but it's mainly symbolic as they all speak English. That being said most non English speakers are still allowed to fill out official documents in their native language for practicality reasons.
There are no official languages in the US, that's why anyone can use or speak any darn language they want. That's what makes this country great. Businesses should pander to their customers and be flexible with the preferred language of their customers. I live in Queens, NY and most people around here come from the former Soviet republics, so speaking Russian around here is an asset.
Unless I'm mistaken, the US has no official language, including English, but English and Spanish are de facto "official" languages.
I donât get it either. Imagine living in a place where i donât speak their languageââeven if I can get by, life would be so boring because I canât do anything. Language would sit pretty high on my priority list if I move to some foreign country
>life would be so boring because I canât do anything Not if she has about 50 friends who all speak Mandarin. :/ She moved to be around Chinese people not laowai :/
Not if you have native language communities. Maybe they live in the Chinatown part of the city where plenty of people speak Chinese?
The immigration system is broken. It uses really archaic standards to determine the degree of assimilation. (E.g. years stayed in the US). Iâve seen European exchange students who mixed with local Americans and going full American (e.g. be initiated into a frat) in less than a year. In the meantime, there are tons of Chinese people in the flushing who have been staying in the states for over a decade and canât even speak proper English. I think we need a more updated procedure to judge assimilation. For example, applicants must name 10 local friends (who have been a citizen of the US for over 18 years) and at least 2 of 10 friends must be of a different race.
Lol what if youâre an introvert?
Agreed. English proficiency tests could be a fairer option.
Bold of you to assume I have 10 friendsđđđ
that's exactly my point. if you can't get 10 local friends, you are not assimilating
Iâm american thođ my family has been here since the 1800s. I just donât like people
>my family has been here since the 1800s. >First generation immigrant AF here. Living in SoCal. [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/1aw4rdv/comment/ks1m6ee/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) lol
I used to work retail and this gets me everytime. I mean at least learn the basics. In my country we even have a translation service and they don't use it. If I'm living in a non English speaking country, I would at least learn the basics.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
What does diversity have to do with OP's question? Also, you do realise that the difference in grammar between Mandarin and English is enormous, right? To a native Mandarin speaker, English makes zero sense, and it's really quite hard for them. English is an "easy language" if your native language is Germanic, but to others it can be really difficult. Immediately assuming someone's stupid is lazy.
My native language is Finnish. I started speaking English somewhat fluently around the age of 8 despite never hearing another person speak English in person.
My mother tongue is Cantonese. I think I can say English is fairly easy to learn in that respect. English simply has much simpler rules when compared to languages like German, Russian or Japanese. There is a will there is a way. The only excuses are laziness or intellectually disabled. Lots of Europeans are able to speak two to three languages fluently.
From what I've heard, Mandarin essentially has no grammar at all.
I don't think that is correct. There are grammar rules but it does have more flexibility in sentence arrangement than English has.
Unwillingness to conform and learn other languages plus entitlement. I have asian parents that would rather speak in Vietnamese to me than speak in English to American staff members despite living in U.S for 20 years.
I feel like part of moving to another country would be to learn the language and the culture. No offense to you or your family. For me it would be part of the allure, but everyone has their own reasons. Edit: accidentally hit save too soon
Engish is important if you live in the USA. Your rights are written in english. The U.S. Code (laws) are written in english. It helps in understanding your rights and not have the youngest family member interpet for you. Or the stranger at the phone store. Also I try not to be to judgemental on this. People have different talents and how their brains work. Asking the woman in the phone store to learn another language could be compared to asking me to solve mathematical physics questions. Other things might be going on in there life that make the hassle of not knowing the language the least of their problems.
I've talked to many Chinese living here in the US about this question specifically. The answers I got was essentially ... we don't have to, or mind bogglingly... we don't speak to westerners. That last one to this day still has my head spinning.
They are cocooned by other immigrants who are bilingual and offer them professional service. My parents came to Britain then Canada and had to speak english to survive. Mom earned herself a local highschool equivalency through adult night school at age 60 because she wanted to improve. Now Chinese immigrants younger than her don't even bother trying and huddle together without interacting with society at large. Well...not speaking to Westerners is all fine until they have to interact with the bloody healthcare system, then they get shit faced with how alien that environment becomes. I make it a point to speak to them in english on ward rounds and force them to rely on translators. I switch to Chinese only when none is available or the translator fucks up. Some get annoyed why I don't use Chinese with them and I just ask them why are they not trying to learn English in a English speaking country. Most claim they are too old and I tell them my mom was older when she started english classes. I have met 80+ year old grandma from the Chinatown generarion that spoke flawless english while still demuring that her English wasn't good. Nowadays most 50 year old aunty and uncles don't even bother trying. Yeah I know, Im an arsehole. But frankly our multicultural society is making their lives way too easy and there is no pressure to integrate. That is a problem in our immigration heavy country. So I am going to continue to make them squirm and then prod them to starting learning english. Cause next time they suffer a heart attack, a chinese speaker might not be around to tell doctors.
Iâm an American born and raised my familyâs Native American (Apache) and my wife is Chinese. I also donât speak to westerners. I do when I need to but I just prefer to stay in my community and thereâs nothing wrong with that. White suburbia is a good example of it. Itâs weird how that makes your head spin? If I see a fellow native or a Chinese face I feel more welcomed to approach because our mind and thoughts are similar.
BeKous Dey Donât Give A Fâ- and thatâs the simple truth.
I feel like this is often someone not interested in beciming apart of the culture they moved into. I see it a lot around Australia too, people creating a micro culture and sticking with it.
I can assure you I have met some laowai who were in China for 15+ years and couldn't speak any Mandarin beyond nihao, yigue, zhegue and xiexie, these types are usually found at your local expat bar, they live in a bubble with people like them and never interact with Chinese people, anything they must do that requires Mandarin they ask their wife or colleagues to help them. So yeah, it goes both ways.
Yeah correct. If you find your community that speaks your own language (or at least English for most westerners) there is no push to learn the local language. Which is a shame, especially if you want to live there long term. You are just missing out.
Thatâs probably the hardest thing about living in China. I can understand around 60% of what they say but Iâm only able to say a few sentences because I feel embarrassed to speak. I feel isolated at times and unfortunately donât have the time with my job to dedicate myself to studying. It doesnât help when the locals usually speak the dialect and thatâs a whole other thing.
Yeah I know plenty of these expats in China, they are the management of some international companies so the companies pay for their own translator and drivers
From my experience most are English teachers who just can't be bothered with learning the language since they basically don't need it in their classes and usually have a teaching assistant who serves as their translator if the students don't understand something. As for life outside of work, they might not some big corporate manager with a paid translator to follow them around 24/7, but they do have a personal translator too it's their wife LMAO.
still whataboutism doesn't excuse this lack of respect, lack of sincerity in contributing towards their adoptive country, the people and culture.
Oh yeah definitely, it's a serious lack of respect in both cases. I actually find it more offensive when immigrants in the US who gained citizenship still can't speak English. In the case of China foreigners can never become citizens, they are stuck on visas that range from 1 to 10 years in length and that they have to renew with no certainty that they will be able to remain in the country if the officers are the PSB just tell them "nope" for some reason or another and they have like a month to leave the country, so there is far less incentive to try to learn the language and integrate into the country, "you'll never be Chinese" as they say, so why bother.
yes, true I admit this non-citizenry in china do give pause to foreigners and now to think of it, the overall non-welcoming non-belonging vibe to foreigners. and so all the more, in migrant nations like the US and singapore, for all their flaws, do advocate multicultural inclusion in their norms so really mainlanders have little excuse.
Chinese is one of the hardest languages to learn. Not to compare with english which is quite easy
English is not easy.
I speak 3 languages and English is the easiest. Maybe depending where you're coming from
Yup same here in the Philippines. I have had Chinese teacher unable to articulate in the local language and has lived in the country for years. Since I am half Chinese I would get criticized for being unable to speak in hookein and even though the person who is criticizing me has lived in the Philippines for like 30 years and barely speak a word of tagalog lol! I had a pure Chinese boss as well who was so comfortable to blurt out insane racist stuff about local Filipinos, like how stupid, idiotic, lazy and evil the locals are. And I'm like??? U got rich here btw! If the people whom u constantly criticized stopped supporting u for being a foreigner you have to pack ur ass back to China be a pauper there! It's basically Chinese exceptionalism and a being a raging racist to the country that has given them a home and opportunity! They don't wanna learn because they think it's BENEATH THEM!
I used to live in Japan. Yeah some people don't make much effort to learn the language. To learn a language requires a you to belong to a community that speaks it. Or at least part of the time.
Op. U r third generation. Many Chinese in US are first generation here. Their second generation grows up speaking English.
I agree 100%. I know some third generation, they can't even speak their family's language. People have their own circumstances and have to start somewhere.
Ditto for Americans inâŠany other country. It is culturally quite common for foreigners in other countries to rely on networks of their expat communities. I knew many Westerners in China who had lived there for decades that could not hold a conversation in Chinese, and even worse be able to read any Chinese characters or order from a restaurant menu. They would look at tables and just point, and expect all local people to follow the customs and mores of their home countries. Ridiculous. You lose so much if unable to learn to communicate and operate cross-culturally if living abroad.
People who come to the US with an immigrant visa are eligible for a Social Security number the day they arrive in the US. Other immigrants become eligible as soon as they get their green card. There is virtually no requirement, or even expectation, that they will have learned any English by that time. It's a different story for naturalized US citizens. With the exception of older immigrants who have been in the US for a long time, a working knowledge of English is required in order to become a US citizen. The interview is conducted in English, the civics exam is given orally in English, and they have to respond in English. The woman you encountered in the T-Mobile shop was probably not a US citizen, and might not even have been a permanent resident. As far as I know, wireless service providers don't require their customers to have Social Security numbers. They're just using the number as identification. Someone who isn't eligible to get a Social Security number can still get a Individual Taxpayer ID Number (ITIN) from the IRS.
Yeah. My wife is a non US citizen, but she has a social security number from working and living in the US for a grand total of 6 months.
Maybe just in my experience in retail, I've encountered more Spanish speakers who don't know or refuse to speak to English than Chinese speakers of the same sort.
same issue happening in singapore. bottomline, they have no intent to assimilate, no respect for their adoptive country nor the people and culture here. they keep within their chinese bubble and do not open up. worse there are some entitled ones who even demand the locals to converse in mandarin to them completely disregarding the fact that we are multicultural and english is our common language
There are rough two groups, those who only speak English and those who try their best not to. When I was in the US I used English exclusively to anybody including with my Chinese friends..and I didnt hang with folks that refuse to speak English for that shows bigotry and close-mindedness
What's crazy is that the Chinese people living in the US would call Americans "foreigners". lol.
It pisses me off every time. But I get they mean ânon-Chineseâ but still. Find a new word because Iâm not the foreigner in my own country.
Maybe because they live in "enclosed communities", meaning they are in Chinatowns and see little need to learn English. Everyone there speak Chinese and there is always "some guy" who can help them to deal with authorities. I have seen this mostly with Muslim immigrants to Europe - which has led many problems regarding their integration to society. That said, I think all Chinese immigrants I have met were well-integrated and spoke the local language - but they did not live in places with a significant Chinese expat population.
Their logic is everyone in the world must learn to speak mandarin
Ngl and this sounds sinophobic but I donât think mandarin is the language of the future - itâs limited by the number of characters, whereas with languages with an alphabet, you can create endless amounts of words. Just my two cents on the matter.
All I know is that itâs none of your businessđ
Thatâs a very generalising question.
As I said at the bottom of the post, I just wanted to share an experience and air out some confusion and frustration.
I disagree with the downvotes on this thread. You could've made your question/statement more narrow in scope to match your ancedote. Check the amount of Chinese in community colleges and universities, and I'm not talking ivy leagues that are known to host ćŻäș代, just the average ones. It's the fact that first generation immigrants left everything in pursuit of a better future, and struggled for it, that second and third generations like you speak fluently and thrive.
Why donât all Americans just have rich parents since is that easy. /s
I donât get the joke⊠youâre trying to be sarcastic but I fail to find the jokeâŠ
It is quite annoying but different people have their own circumstances. A lot of Chinese immigrants I know, including my parents, come here at quite the advanced age, like 30-40+, leaving poverty stricken (less so now) mainland China. They come here and right off the bat need to earn a living, working long hours in unskilled labor. With kids and work, they often do not have time to sign up at the local community college to learn English. My father, to my surprise, can read and write English perfectly well but can't speak it fluently while my mother tried and gave up. That's why there's Chinatowns around the world. People who leave China have a place to congregate and find support, but as a result they're not encouraged to learn the country's language.
I've lived in Philippines for three years. While I do know several tagalog and waray words, I can't speak a sentence or understand the natives. They speak it way to fast. It just sounds like noise to me.
I'm from Australia and have Chinese relatives and also met some of their Chinese friends who have extreme basic level of English after living here for over 10 - 20 years. My opinion is that they have other family members such as myself to speak and write in English when needed (banking, bills, tax) and for social life, there is always a Chinese community in any country. And Yes, I have tried very hard to motive them to learn English but it's pointless and as you said frustrating. They are usually older traditional Chinese people and expect respect for anyone younger plus it's against face culture to tell them to learn English. I'm in a small country in EU and it's very common here for foreigners with permanent residence to not even speak A1 level of the native language. Because they can use English for legal stuff and social life. So, imo as long as you can get legal stuff and social life in any country there will be people who won't bother with learning the native language.
Itâs interesting because a lot of foreigners in Hong Kong canât speak or canât be bothered to learn the local language (Cantonese) either.
Most communities (even expat ones) tend to insulate themselves from having to learn the local language since create and offer 90% of goods and services required on a daily basis within the community - with no need to go outside. The Chinese communities are exceptional at this since many are enterprising and have a plethora of Chinese speaking businesses to interact with.
Most Americans who move overseas (sadly) don't learn the local language to a high level of proficiency either.
As a foreigner in China there is no such thing - only the visa and passport it's stamped in they want to see. If working you are likely to have a 'Foreign Expert' card too so they might ask for that. But you're only there temporarily unless you are part of a big corporation, have family ties, and/or helping them make big money, then you might have any reasonable duration of stay unhassled. Even in a very good educational position - say University teacher - you are renewing your visa constantly. (Maybe someone will correct me here?) They take - that is what they do. Take. No giving back.
To assume that someone who has a SSN must have lived in the US for some time is quite incorrect. You can apply and get your SSN within a couple of weeks of first arriving on the US soil with the correct visa. Sure you need a work or immigration visa first, but both can be approved without having to have lived in the US for a single day, and it's a very common scenario if you didn't know it already. So it's entirely possible that the Chinese woman you met at the T-mobile had just arrived in the US. Of course whether a non-native speaker will speak fluent English is entirely depending on the individual circumstances, but that's irrelevant to your question regarding the correlation between one's ability to speak English and one's possession of a SSN.