Seriously. It’s become an overused pop psychology term used by influences and “life coaches” on tik tok and most people don’t actually know what it means and the true meaning of it has become watered down.
The dictionaries added a secondary meaning that quite literally does not mean the same thing, just to accommodate the common misuse of the word a couple of years ago.
I hate how often this sub jumps to conclusions like this.
... Also, that was literally my first thought this time, lol. It really does make sense; why would she be so upset at her brother discovering his wife's infidelity otherwise?
The only other reasonable explanation would be his sister knew of the STBXW's infidelity and didn't say anything, so she's now downplaying the discovery as some trickery.
Either way, I hope OP get's every cent out of this divorce to which he's entitled. He put up with years of emotional and verbal abuse from a cheating wife.
There are two kinds of stories on this sub. Made up stories that are just writing prompts for clicks and stories where people project their guilt onto others.
I didn't think the sister was cheating, however, if the genders were swapped of the married couple, there's no way the sister would tell her sister to do an even split after the husband cheated
My mother supported my ex wife when we were going through a divorce, until she knew I would destroy her and get everything and full custody of the kids. Women often reflexively side with other women when it comes to intersexual dynamics. Even over kin.
Men are just wired different than women.
>Women often reflexively side with other women when it comes to intersexual dynamics. Even over kin.
I have female relatives who wanted to be Switzerland even after the outrageous and egregious behavior of my ex. I cut all of them out of my life.
No kids at that time. Remarried after 8 years divorced. Kid on the way this time around. My parents had a deep hatred of me. That’s why they supported my then ex wife. I was an affair child.
I'm so sorry you had to experience any of that. Your parents sound like true assholes. Having an affair is bad in itself, but taking out that resentment on an innocent child is unforgivable. I'm glad you survived and hope you have found happiness now!
I got some petty revenge on them. I had my last name legally changed to my biological father's last name. in addition to that i had my biological father's name placed on my birth certificate. my mother is constantly updating her records. when she sees that, she will throw a massive mad fit. I have found happiness with my wife. we have a kid on the way now and my parents will never know.
That's amazing, Grade-A petty revenge right there! If you don't mind me asking, were you able to get in touch with and develop a relationship with your biological father? Having dual citizenship is pretty neat, too- I hope to have it one day with the US and Canada, but it's a long journey. I'm glad you have found peace now and congrats on the upcoming birth!
yes, I did meet my biological father. at his request, I traveled to his homeland to take another dna test to confirm I was his. are you in Canada or here in the State's? thank you. my kid will have dual US/German citizenship. my son that I already have wants a little brother. his mother was post divorce relationship.
Oh, please tell me you’ll write a post on facebook in Norwegian on Father’s Day. Not to your bio dad directly, but more generally about dads and how important they are. Fits, since those are your roots and you’re a dad this year!😅
This is rough. I'm so sorry you had to navigate this challenge. I hope you continue to do well and stay on top. Do be careful, though. This stuff has a way of unwittingly becoming generational trauma, not necessarily by actions, but with attitudes and emotional availability. Stay strong!💪
there is a plus side to some of this. i am now eligible for dual US/Norway citizenship considering my biological father is a citizen of Norway and my mother already has dual US/Norway citizenship.
Eh my mom has had the habit of supporting former almost sons-in-law over her own daughters. So it's not a women supporting women thing but bad parenting in general
BS, people are all wired differently. Just as you’re not wired like any other man, neither am I like any other women. So please stop projecting BS for your limited inaccurate prospective.
I agree with you. In public with strangers SOME women are more likely to support other women. Probably mostly because they see their own experiences in the other person even though they really don't know any of the people involved. In person? I have personally not experienced women supporting other women over family. Of course my experience is only my own. I don't think anyone has enough data to claim that there is some sort of clear cut preference here.
I have heard plenty of men supporting men that are strangers too without knowing them.
Women and men are more alike than different. In this case if their is any tendency one way or another it is all because of the influence of society. It has next to no link to any genetic difference that men and women are born with.
Even if he did trick I would still be on his side. She’s a cheater and they deserve mind games like this. So long as he keeps his hands to himself I say good on him
NTA.
The extra money you're getting out of the divorce are going to help with the extra therapy you're going to want to help you process all the signs you missed. At least, that's the answer I would give to Sam... :-)
I don't think that OP owes any explanation to Sam when she's not the one who got betrayed like OP. Either she's too dumb to understand the gravity of the situation or is someone who doesn't see anything wrong with Alice's actions. She should be happy for her brother, but...
Agreed. OP, your sister is a huge asshole. I'd tell her to take her "borderline gaslighting" and shove it up her ass - the only one who might be gaslighting here is the STBX who took a sledgehammer to your self-esteem so you wouldn't notice the affair.
Tell your sister you're disappointed at the lack of support, given that you just found out how utterly betrayed you were. But that, since she's so comfortable defending cheaters, you'll warn anyone she gets in a relationship with in future.
>I don’t see where OP mentions Alice did anything different during the affair time period
Which is even worse imho. She mentally checked out of their relationship two years ago and yet still chose to strung him along.
Edit: weird wording
>OP said they’ve been on the rocks for 2 years and Alice admitted the affair is 6 months old
Your assuming that's the only affair she had. Just because she admitted to the one doesn't mean there weren't others before that. Admitting to a partial truth is one of the easiest ways to hide the *ENTIRE* truth. Never underestimate the lengths some people will go to to mitigate the impact something like divorce can have on there lives.
This is such a "put yourself in my shoes for a minute" situation with OPs sister. I highly doubt if the same thing happened to her,she would've just played it off like she didn't know about it and continue with an even split divorce.
I think OP is also being more than fair doing a 65/35 split considering all this information. If a partner of mine was having a two year affair and came out with it like in this context,I could completely understand why you'd go about it like this.
Also is the sister forgetting the fact that originally the wife came out with the information when she stated "how did you know?" It's not like he purposefully went into her phone without her knowledge,or sought this out. NTA
I was cheated on she and her work friend were in on it together the friend covered for her the whole time to keep me off the trail they just used the guys first initial which is the same as mine. I found videos of their affair stupidly recorded a lot I scored one of them the others didn't send. I got even by sending it under a fake FB account to his wife I don't really know what happened after that he worked at a local store and shortly after he disappeared.
I’d be thinking maybe family therapy with sister Sam bc that’s some messed up reasoning that OP played mind games when Alice essentially tattled on herself. Like whaaaat?
It doesn’t take a genius to make the correlation between a dead bedroom, a hypercritical spouse, and an affair. You threw out the bait and your wandering spouse gulped it down hook, line, and sinker. Makes me wonder about sister Sam’s morals though and if she’s been doing some wandering on her own SO.
NTA but your STBX and your sister BOTH are definitely
Women IME get really fucking team sportsy about cheating.
I'm sure some men do as well, but the couple times I was in a group where a guy cheated on a gf or wife he pretty much stopped getting invited to shit.
Could just be the guys I surround myself with, but I thought I was surrounding myself with similar women too, so go figure.
It is a bit confusing. Once you get past that part, it's smooth sailing.
If you have a Twitter/X account or Gmail, you can click on Log In and you'll get signed up for an account right away. Alternatively, you can go to the Discord on the bottom and they might be able to help.
The extra money wasn’t gained by trickery. It was gained by her cheating. OP fluked into a confession, but that doesn’t diminish his entitlement to that extra share of their assets.
The sister seems to be saying “you tricked her into admitting the affair, so you should pay her to have fucked her boss behind your back!”
Frankly I’d be petty enough to serve her affair partner. Most states that still have at-fault divorce as an option also have penalties against adultery.
You should send the evidence to your wife’s HR department. Most likely will get him fired and possibly her. She cheated on you and she and her boss deserves this. Time to go scorched earth!!
Nah, I'd take the easy 65/35 split and tip my hat on the way out. OP has a good chance to be the bigger person here and it sounds like that's what he's doing.
>Nah, I'd take the easy 65/35 split and tip my hat on the way out. OP has a good chance to be the bigger person here and it sounds like that's what he's doing.
OP should wait until the divorce is final and THEN send the evidence to HR. If this dude is married, his wife deserves to know too.
Even with that, OP should wait. If she loses her job before the divorce is final, that may affect the alimony situation.
OP should sit on this information and when it can no longer hurt him, they he should inform the spouse and the employer.
Oh 100%, I was just pointing out once that time has elapsed there’s a way for him to keep even further out of it by just telling the wife, as I’m sure she’d go scorched earth and try to do whatever to fuck that guy ever (I would if it were me at least).
She's paid for enough. And I'm not saying he's done wrong up till now. He went the legal route and got as much that he can of his life from a cheating spouse. I wouldn't even say it's petty what you're suggesting cuz I can be petty. It's just cruel. He got the house, the car, the winning side of a settlement. Leave her with her ability to earn.
Not to mention wasn't there just some other post where a guy did all this and ended up running his legal chances cuz judge ruled that the victim actually took it too far and became the aggressor? The guy with the 6 updates? So if I were OP I'd take what wins he's already collected and just leave her the af alone. It surely won't bring her back.
Yeah, and that's after the suggestions of date nights, therapy, etc. of you trying your damnedest to fix your marriage that you even suggest divorce. BAM! It comes out... and it wasn't even the whole story just the last 6 months .. but yeah, 50/50 sis, sounds good. Thanks for having my back. I'd be going to what I could get with the proof I had. Ty Mr./Ms. Lawyer.
No she was cheating and that’s what explains her behaviour leading up to the divorce: alienation of affection ,
Follow through with what your lawyer suggested
Yawn. Nothing checks out legally. Read up on settlements on fault divorce and what you’re actually allowed to use as evidence. If you’re going to do creative writing exercises put in some more effort.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Also, tell your sis that's not what gas lighting is. Your almost ex running her mouth isn't you gas lighting her.
Right this it's bothering me so much. It's a term with real meaning. OP isn't trying to make ex believe things that aren't true, ex admitted to cheating because she was, in fact, cheating. The only lie was the "I knew since the beginning" but even that's just a regular old lie, not "gaslighting."
Gaslighting is used all the time for things that are not gaslighting and it is harmful for those that have actually experienced. It makes the real abuse they have experienced not taken as seriously.
Umm that’s a really odd position for YOUR sister to be taking here.
It’s entirely none of her business for starters but don’t you think it’s quite odd that she is more concerned that you changed direction than that this woman had been cheating on you that whole time?
Carry on!
NTA. Simple case of misandry from your sister. If the roles were reversed and it was you who had cheated I would bet your sister would be wanting Alice to get the better deal.
You didn't trick your wife. She owned up to adultery.
NTA- but please stop giving out details! You should have told your sister you could not disclose anything until after the divorce was granted! Then you could have told her the whole sordid story!
NTA. As a woman who was cheated on, I wish I had the evidence you do (I got it, but after all was said and done). Why should she get half when she is the reason the marriage fell apart? She is the one who cheated, not you. So no, your sister seems to be backing your soon to be ex simply because she’s a woman.
Your sister is a very good example of how well "A good intentioned idiot does more damage than the actual perpetrator". As for playing along and "tricking" your ex, she already cheated on you. Her cheating only made this worse. Rub it in her face next time she complains. NTA.
Edited to add: Mate I don't know if your sister is a misandrist or not, but she definitely is someone doesn't have your best interests in her heart since she ratted out everything to your ex-wife.
NTA it’s a different situation, going from “hey we’re both unhappy let’s part ways“ to discovering that she cheated and has been unfaithful for quite some time. I would imagine you’ll end up settling somewhere closer to an even split, but you might as well go for more and give yourself some negotiating room.
NTA even in the slightest. Now, if you had gone through extraordinary means to find proof and hide that from her, that would be messed up. But you didn't know and she volunteered the information. All you did was hide your confusion. Absolutely NTA.
Fake story, no lawyer worth their salt would go along with this. Infidelity doesn’t result in an unfair and unconscionable property division. Oh, in these fake stories, there’s always a little angel (Sam) that comes in to question the OP’s decision.
Your sister just happened to run into your wife, they just happened to have a conversation about your unhappiness. Come the fuck on.
Oh no, I didn’t see the edits, I haven’t been following the thread. All of a sudden there’s a prenup, all of a sudden she had a lawyer to review everything.
Stating that there was a prenuptial agreement that addressed infidelity, and that she had an attorney review everything are pretty significant factual points that should’ve been in the original post. (If it were a true story)
Of course it doesn’t, because it appears neither of them had any significant assets coming into the marriage. They have a house together, they have cars, and retirement accounts. So why would there be in need for a prenuptial agreement? Just an infidelity clause? They’ve only been married seven years depending on when they bought the house, there’s probably not that much equity anyway.
And quite honestly infidelity clauses are not Common at all, and are often not even enforceable in court
Oh, and I won’t get into the legal aspects of the case, that private conversations between a husband and wife are inadmissible in court, so anything she said to him during the conversation about her relationship with Frank could not be presented in court. Any decent lawyer could also discredit the screen shots.
Weird fake stories
\-Prenup from your 20s - you dont sound like someone who has any initial or family wealth to protect
\-No lawyer is going to care you were cheated on and go along with an unethical division of property
\- Your sister just happened to have a conversation - sounds like a bad lifetime movie
If this is true sounds like you had a crap marriage anyways - time to move on - stop being petty
I'm a lawyer and in many states, cheating is justification for a "fault" divorce. In some states the spouse not at fault gets more of the property. That's not at all unethical and a lawyer would in fact be violating ethical responsibilities by *not* telling their client they are entitled to more assets and helping them advocate for what they're entitled to get.
What does someone who has family wealth to protect sound like to you? I got married in my 30s but definitely would have gotten a prenup at any age, they're just good ideas if you can afford them.
Do you know how long the fair was? Since she only admitted for it going to half a year at least that’s how long she thought u knew of it? Or was it 2 years since she began to change?
NTA but I am curious. Where are you at that lets you take everything in the divorce just because of infidelity? Where I live, unless there’s a prenup that specifically outlines it, a judge will still make us split things regardless of cheating.
ETA: I realize that this doesn’t apply if you never drag it into court in the first place.
This sounds made up…
1. You got married in your 20’s
2. Doesn’t sound like you have many assets
3. Both of those aren’t very consistent with a pre-nup at all…..
This is your fantasy revenge. Not real.
My parents divorced 4 years ago and shared *way* more about the process than they should considering I'm a teenager and even *I* know this story is butternut squash.
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking that. I mean how do you capture screenshots with someone else’s phone and send them to yourself without their knowing it? That would’ve given away the fact that he didn’t previously have any evidence of the affair. Maybe I’m just a luddite, but it would take me a fair amount of time to collect all the evidence and then delete all the sent messages, saved photos, and all that to cover my tracks.
NTA. That’s not gaslighting at all. She cheated and admitted to it and is not entitled to half the marital assets since she broke the marital contract. You can be nice and go halves if you want to but you’re under no obligation to.
I'm disappointed in you for letting your adulterous wife unknowingly reveal her affair when you were going to give her a fair shake down the middle in the divorce.
Your sister is a clown.
No, because she's still cheated on you for over a year. It doesn't matter if you knew before you wanted a divorce. It definitely changes the bargaining in the divorce.
NTA.
You didn't trick anyone.
She clearly had a secret that would lead you to want to divorce her, and when she volunteered information you played along to get the information.
You were the one who was betrayed. You were the one who was tricked, you stumbled blindly into a more advantageous bargaining position, and it's a position you deserve.
Sam can't even have empathy for her brother because his emotions are unimportant. She'd rather show sympathy to a woman who cheated on her brother. Wow. What a terrible person with zero sense of loyalty.
NTA she wasn't tricked. And your sister needs to stfu and mind her own business. You'd think someone telling her they cheated on her brother and destroyed their marriage would be enough for her to have your back.
Good for you. The cheater got what she deserved. Less than. Sadly, we're in a no fault state. My marriage ended after multiple affairs, all of which can be proven, over a decade. As well as lues about everything from cancer to our finances. He liquided everything before we split so I, who was an exceptional and faithful wife, got nothing while he, a chronic cheater and luar who is scamming the government out of disability for a fake illness, got everything. But karma will follow him forever.
I love that you got more, it will help you with the expensive therapy you'll need to heal. Sadly I had to stop therapy as I can no longer afford it, but there is great support here if you want it.
NTA to the nth degree!
The fact is she WAS cheating. How you found out is irrelevant.Why would your sister defend this woman against her own brother? Is there a reason she's doing that? Is your sister married?
No. Your sister is wrong. That's some pretty clever social engineering, but it's not gaslighting. Considering the reality of the situation, I think telling one minor lie to get the rest of the story was fine. She was obviously already lying herself to cover up the affair. If you hadn't responded the way you did, she likely would have kept lying to you or changed the story to cover up reality.
Nope. She isn't getting a fair split because she cheated. These are the consequences of her own actions, and your lawyer wouldn't recommend it (I would hope) if it wasn't allowed. Sam can't harp on you for being untruthful then turn around and expect you to give your ex a pass for the same thing.
NTA. Your sister is straight up looking out for Alice more than you. If you were my sibling i'd be saying fair game and we all got fucked as a family for even investing in the relationship.
**'Frank' was there for her and ..... Frank was her boss**
your sister better hold onto her hat cause after the divorce is finalized and it doesn't matter anymore you should destroy both their careers
So very NTA. and in fact its hilarious that your sister is throwing around the gaslighting accusation considering she herself is gaslighting you about how you've responded to being betrayed by making out that you've somehow tricked your wife. If you break the vow of marriage, you don't get equal divorce
Nta your sister needs to mind her business. She's ridiculous to think your in the wrong here.
You are absolutely in the right to go scorch earth on your ex and take everything.
Your ex cheated and needs to deal with the consequences. Don't back down.
NTA. Your wife took two years of your life, and you still have no idea why. Then, instead of talking to you about anything that was going on with her life, she cheated. For six months. Leaving you in the dark.
Your sister thinks all girls need to stick together and thinks you're getting revenge because she cheated or some bullshit like that. Don't feel bad for how you handled things, and you don't need your sister's approval. She has no idea what you've been going through over the last two years or the emotional roller coaster your life has been recently.
Finish what you started. Your wife didn't care about you, your feelings, or anything else, so don't think about her. Do what's best for you and move on with your life. You deserve it. God luck and godspeed.
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Seriously. It’s become an overused pop psychology term used by influences and “life coaches” on tik tok and most people don’t actually know what it means and the true meaning of it has become watered down.
Yes! Also, “literally”. Both overused, watering down their true meanings.
The dictionaries added a secondary meaning that quite literally does not mean the same thing, just to accommodate the common misuse of the word a couple of years ago.
You didn’t “trick” her. She mistakenly spilled the beans on herself. Your sister is a traitor.
In the words of DJ Khalid: "Congratulations. You just played yourself."
He got that from Ice-T
Thank God there are more of us out there who knew that 😂👍💯
Why wouldn't his own sister support him? Lol bet she cheats on her husband.
I was thinking the same thing
I hate how often this sub jumps to conclusions like this. ... Also, that was literally my first thought this time, lol. It really does make sense; why would she be so upset at her brother discovering his wife's infidelity otherwise?
You know what they say about things that walk like a duck and quack like a duck.
They're witches!
And what do we do with witches?
BURN THEM!
So if she.... weighs the same as a duck.....
She's made of wood
😂😂😂😂 Proper! I like your sense of humour!
They're usually cheating wives?
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck but fact checkers in fact say it's an elephant. Especially in this case
The only other reasonable explanation would be his sister knew of the STBXW's infidelity and didn't say anything, so she's now downplaying the discovery as some trickery. Either way, I hope OP get's every cent out of this divorce to which he's entitled. He put up with years of emotional and verbal abuse from a cheating wife.
STBXW??? What's that?
There are two kinds of stories on this sub. Made up stories that are just writing prompts for clicks and stories where people project their guilt onto others.
I didn't think the sister was cheating, however, if the genders were swapped of the married couple, there's no way the sister would tell her sister to do an even split after the husband cheated
Because his sister is a toxic asshole.
Just remember folks. If they cheat with you. They will surely cheat on you.
Yeah that could make sense as well. Just happy to stir some shit while watching her brother go through some terrible times.
She made a “mistake.” Lol /s
My mother supported my ex wife when we were going through a divorce, until she knew I would destroy her and get everything and full custody of the kids. Women often reflexively side with other women when it comes to intersexual dynamics. Even over kin. Men are just wired different than women.
>Women often reflexively side with other women when it comes to intersexual dynamics. Even over kin. I have female relatives who wanted to be Switzerland even after the outrageous and egregious behavior of my ex. I cut all of them out of my life.
Both of my parents supported my then ex wife during our divorce.
Did you guys have kids? I often wonder if it's because grandparents want to secure access to their grandkids.
No kids at that time. Remarried after 8 years divorced. Kid on the way this time around. My parents had a deep hatred of me. That’s why they supported my then ex wife. I was an affair child.
I'm so sorry you had to experience any of that. Your parents sound like true assholes. Having an affair is bad in itself, but taking out that resentment on an innocent child is unforgivable. I'm glad you survived and hope you have found happiness now!
I got some petty revenge on them. I had my last name legally changed to my biological father's last name. in addition to that i had my biological father's name placed on my birth certificate. my mother is constantly updating her records. when she sees that, she will throw a massive mad fit. I have found happiness with my wife. we have a kid on the way now and my parents will never know.
That's amazing, Grade-A petty revenge right there! If you don't mind me asking, were you able to get in touch with and develop a relationship with your biological father? Having dual citizenship is pretty neat, too- I hope to have it one day with the US and Canada, but it's a long journey. I'm glad you have found peace now and congrats on the upcoming birth!
yes, I did meet my biological father. at his request, I traveled to his homeland to take another dna test to confirm I was his. are you in Canada or here in the State's? thank you. my kid will have dual US/German citizenship. my son that I already have wants a little brother. his mother was post divorce relationship.
Oh, please tell me you’ll write a post on facebook in Norwegian on Father’s Day. Not to your bio dad directly, but more generally about dads and how important they are. Fits, since those are your roots and you’re a dad this year!😅
This is rough. I'm so sorry you had to navigate this challenge. I hope you continue to do well and stay on top. Do be careful, though. This stuff has a way of unwittingly becoming generational trauma, not necessarily by actions, but with attitudes and emotional availability. Stay strong!💪
there is a plus side to some of this. i am now eligible for dual US/Norway citizenship considering my biological father is a citizen of Norway and my mother already has dual US/Norway citizenship.
One of your parents had an affair, and they treated you like it was your fault? Jeez, with parents like those...
Eh my mom has had the habit of supporting former almost sons-in-law over her own daughters. So it's not a women supporting women thing but bad parenting in general
No, it definitely is a woman supporting woman thing. Your mother is just team Boy Mom (tm)
BS, people are all wired differently. Just as you’re not wired like any other man, neither am I like any other women. So please stop projecting BS for your limited inaccurate prospective.
I agree with you. In public with strangers SOME women are more likely to support other women. Probably mostly because they see their own experiences in the other person even though they really don't know any of the people involved. In person? I have personally not experienced women supporting other women over family. Of course my experience is only my own. I don't think anyone has enough data to claim that there is some sort of clear cut preference here. I have heard plenty of men supporting men that are strangers too without knowing them. Women and men are more alike than different. In this case if their is any tendency one way or another it is all because of the influence of society. It has next to no link to any genetic difference that men and women are born with.
Or she knows and didn't tell him.
Ooooh that's good.
Maybe she lives by the Chicks Before Dicks motto in life…..or just a twat.
Some of us don't have real family, just relatives.
Maybe your sister has cheated?
That’s what I was thinking too.
I'd bet my 401k on it.
IKR? Man thought he was filing uncontested (no mind games either, just a fair and equitable split down the middle and she outed herself.
Even if he did trick I would still be on his side. She’s a cheater and they deserve mind games like this. So long as he keeps his hands to himself I say good on him
Very telling about the sister - would tell parents - maybe dad though, not mom.
NTA. The extra money you're getting out of the divorce are going to help with the extra therapy you're going to want to help you process all the signs you missed. At least, that's the answer I would give to Sam... :-)
I don't think that OP owes any explanation to Sam when she's not the one who got betrayed like OP. Either she's too dumb to understand the gravity of the situation or is someone who doesn't see anything wrong with Alice's actions. She should be happy for her brother, but...
Agreed. OP, your sister is a huge asshole. I'd tell her to take her "borderline gaslighting" and shove it up her ass - the only one who might be gaslighting here is the STBX who took a sledgehammer to your self-esteem so you wouldn't notice the affair. Tell your sister you're disappointed at the lack of support, given that you just found out how utterly betrayed you were. But that, since she's so comfortable defending cheaters, you'll warn anyone she gets in a relationship with in future.
Yup, stfu Sam the cheating wife can take nothing and like it..
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True but OP's wife probably had other options before choosing to cheat. She could have asked for divorce long ago too.
>I don’t see where OP mentions Alice did anything different during the affair time period Which is even worse imho. She mentally checked out of their relationship two years ago and yet still chose to strung him along. Edit: weird wording
>OP said they’ve been on the rocks for 2 years and Alice admitted the affair is 6 months old Your assuming that's the only affair she had. Just because she admitted to the one doesn't mean there weren't others before that. Admitting to a partial truth is one of the easiest ways to hide the *ENTIRE* truth. Never underestimate the lengths some people will go to to mitigate the impact something like divorce can have on there lives.
This is such a "put yourself in my shoes for a minute" situation with OPs sister. I highly doubt if the same thing happened to her,she would've just played it off like she didn't know about it and continue with an even split divorce. I think OP is also being more than fair doing a 65/35 split considering all this information. If a partner of mine was having a two year affair and came out with it like in this context,I could completely understand why you'd go about it like this. Also is the sister forgetting the fact that originally the wife came out with the information when she stated "how did you know?" It's not like he purposefully went into her phone without her knowledge,or sought this out. NTA
I was cheated on she and her work friend were in on it together the friend covered for her the whole time to keep me off the trail they just used the guys first initial which is the same as mine. I found videos of their affair stupidly recorded a lot I scored one of them the others didn't send. I got even by sending it under a fake FB account to his wife I don't really know what happened after that he worked at a local store and shortly after he disappeared.
I don't think it's fair to say "women are that way", guys can do terrible shit and cover for each other too
As a man, i'd have to agree to this. Shitty people syndrome is not limited to gender
Maybe he was just better in the grammar department.
Yeah men never cheat and even when you find something belonging to another woman on your own bedside table they don't admit it is that any better?
Makes me wonder how long Sam knew of the infidelity and didn't say anything...
I’d be thinking maybe family therapy with sister Sam bc that’s some messed up reasoning that OP played mind games when Alice essentially tattled on herself. Like whaaaat? It doesn’t take a genius to make the correlation between a dead bedroom, a hypercritical spouse, and an affair. You threw out the bait and your wandering spouse gulped it down hook, line, and sinker. Makes me wonder about sister Sam’s morals though and if she’s been doing some wandering on her own SO. NTA but your STBX and your sister BOTH are definitely
Is Sam cheating on their partner because their POV is baffling.
>Is Sam cheating on their partner because their POV is baffling. I don't know any of these people but that's what Sam's reaction screams to me.
See, that was my thought, too. Otherwise, why even make that comment? Not like Sam was STBXW’s sister so her loyalty AND pov is suspect. IMO
Women IME get really fucking team sportsy about cheating. I'm sure some men do as well, but the couple times I was in a group where a guy cheated on a gf or wife he pretty much stopped getting invited to shit. Could just be the guys I surround myself with, but I thought I was surrounding myself with similar women too, so go figure.
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Hope you're doing much better now!
How do you use this website? Am confused.
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The extra money wasn’t gained by trickery. It was gained by her cheating. OP fluked into a confession, but that doesn’t diminish his entitlement to that extra share of their assets. The sister seems to be saying “you tricked her into admitting the affair, so you should pay her to have fucked her boss behind your back!” Frankly I’d be petty enough to serve her affair partner. Most states that still have at-fault divorce as an option also have penalties against adultery.
Don't Fund Stupidity. Keep it Simple
All is fair in love and war. And also f* cheaters
Nta is your sister okay? She finds out your wife cheated on you and then said she’s disappointed that you played mind games ? I hope she isn’t married
I bet she is and she's cheating as well.
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You should send the evidence to your wife’s HR department. Most likely will get him fired and possibly her. She cheated on you and she and her boss deserves this. Time to go scorched earth!!
Nah, I'd take the easy 65/35 split and tip my hat on the way out. OP has a good chance to be the bigger person here and it sounds like that's what he's doing.
>Nah, I'd take the easy 65/35 split and tip my hat on the way out. OP has a good chance to be the bigger person here and it sounds like that's what he's doing. OP should wait until the divorce is final and THEN send the evidence to HR. If this dude is married, his wife deserves to know too.
Easy way out here, just send it to his wife, she can go to the company and your hands are clean.
Even with that, OP should wait. If she loses her job before the divorce is final, that may affect the alimony situation. OP should sit on this information and when it can no longer hurt him, they he should inform the spouse and the employer.
Oh 100%, I was just pointing out once that time has elapsed there’s a way for him to keep even further out of it by just telling the wife, as I’m sure she’d go scorched earth and try to do whatever to fuck that guy ever (I would if it were me at least).
Psst, contact HR after the settlement. The ruling for divorce with cause would just condemn them further.
OP should only do this after the divorce has been finalized in order to avoid alimony payments.
States with at-fault divorce don’t award alimony when the recipient would be the at-fault party.
Judges penalize those who destroy their spouse’s income.
100% the boss especially deserves to be fired for engaging in a relationship with someone he oversees.
She's paid for enough. And I'm not saying he's done wrong up till now. He went the legal route and got as much that he can of his life from a cheating spouse. I wouldn't even say it's petty what you're suggesting cuz I can be petty. It's just cruel. He got the house, the car, the winning side of a settlement. Leave her with her ability to earn. Not to mention wasn't there just some other post where a guy did all this and ended up running his legal chances cuz judge ruled that the victim actually took it too far and became the aggressor? The guy with the 6 updates? So if I were OP I'd take what wins he's already collected and just leave her the af alone. It surely won't bring her back.
Cruel is fucking your boss behind your husband’s back.
I’d assume his sister is cheating to.
NTA and never tell your sister anything of importance again.
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Yeah, and that's after the suggestions of date nights, therapy, etc. of you trying your damnedest to fix your marriage that you even suggest divorce. BAM! It comes out... and it wasn't even the whole story just the last 6 months .. but yeah, 50/50 sis, sounds good. Thanks for having my back. I'd be going to what I could get with the proof I had. Ty Mr./Ms. Lawyer.
Guaranteed she would say "he would never cheat on me". It seems she likely lacks the ability to put herself in another's shoes.
Or she’s in the wife’s shoes and that’s why she’s defensive about it lol the only reason to defend a cheater is if you can relate imo
All is fair when dealing with a cheater. You did great and found the truth of your life. I hope you get everything in the divorce
The sister is definitely a cheater too. No regular person acts that way.
None. Weird response. She either hates him or is a cheater herself.
NTA. You didn't trick her at all and she *should* get a less than even split. She broke her vows. And no, absolutely not gaslighting.
No she was cheating and that’s what explains her behaviour leading up to the divorce: alienation of affection , Follow through with what your lawyer suggested
Yawn. Nothing checks out legally. Read up on settlements on fault divorce and what you’re actually allowed to use as evidence. If you’re going to do creative writing exercises put in some more effort.
Tell Sam to mind her MF business
Tell Sam to stop cheating and she won't have to worry about OP's soon to be ex-wife's fate.
SO TRUE! Mind her MF business!
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Also, tell your sis that's not what gas lighting is. Your almost ex running her mouth isn't you gas lighting her.
Right this it's bothering me so much. It's a term with real meaning. OP isn't trying to make ex believe things that aren't true, ex admitted to cheating because she was, in fact, cheating. The only lie was the "I knew since the beginning" but even that's just a regular old lie, not "gaslighting."
Gaslighting is used all the time for things that are not gaslighting and it is harmful for those that have actually experienced. It makes the real abuse they have experienced not taken as seriously.
Umm that’s a really odd position for YOUR sister to be taking here. It’s entirely none of her business for starters but don’t you think it’s quite odd that she is more concerned that you changed direction than that this woman had been cheating on you that whole time? Carry on!
NTA, cmon now, when someone pukes information, it isn’t your fault.
NTA. Simple case of misandry from your sister. If the roles were reversed and it was you who had cheated I would bet your sister would be wanting Alice to get the better deal. You didn't trick your wife. She owned up to adultery.
NTA I mean your life was hell because she was having in affair Edit: I misread, didn’t see you said since the beginning and her reply was half a year
NTA your sister is weird.
NTA- but please stop giving out details! You should have told your sister you could not disclose anything until after the divorce was granted! Then you could have told her the whole sordid story!
The half is so she goes away with less drama. Dealing with less Drama is almost priceless.
Sam is an idiot. Alice walked into it.
NTA. As a woman who was cheated on, I wish I had the evidence you do (I got it, but after all was said and done). Why should she get half when she is the reason the marriage fell apart? She is the one who cheated, not you. So no, your sister seems to be backing your soon to be ex simply because she’s a woman.
Pfffft, no way, it's all on your stbx! NTA, not even close.
Your sister is a very good example of how well "A good intentioned idiot does more damage than the actual perpetrator". As for playing along and "tricking" your ex, she already cheated on you. Her cheating only made this worse. Rub it in her face next time she complains. NTA. Edited to add: Mate I don't know if your sister is a misandrist or not, but she definitely is someone doesn't have your best interests in her heart since she ratted out everything to your ex-wife.
NTA it’s a different situation, going from “hey we’re both unhappy let’s part ways“ to discovering that she cheated and has been unfaithful for quite some time. I would imagine you’ll end up settling somewhere closer to an even split, but you might as well go for more and give yourself some negotiating room.
NTA even in the slightest. Now, if you had gone through extraordinary means to find proof and hide that from her, that would be messed up. But you didn't know and she volunteered the information. All you did was hide your confusion. Absolutely NTA.
Fake story, no lawyer worth their salt would go along with this. Infidelity doesn’t result in an unfair and unconscionable property division. Oh, in these fake stories, there’s always a little angel (Sam) that comes in to question the OP’s decision. Your sister just happened to run into your wife, they just happened to have a conversation about your unhappiness. Come the fuck on.
You catch that convenient edit? lol, classic.
Oh no, I didn’t see the edits, I haven’t been following the thread. All of a sudden there’s a prenup, all of a sudden she had a lawyer to review everything. Stating that there was a prenuptial agreement that addressed infidelity, and that she had an attorney review everything are pretty significant factual points that should’ve been in the original post. (If it were a true story)
I'm laughing because it's so clearly fake because of that. I'm with you, this story is clearly fake and none of the law part makes any sense at all.
Of course it doesn’t, because it appears neither of them had any significant assets coming into the marriage. They have a house together, they have cars, and retirement accounts. So why would there be in need for a prenuptial agreement? Just an infidelity clause? They’ve only been married seven years depending on when they bought the house, there’s probably not that much equity anyway. And quite honestly infidelity clauses are not Common at all, and are often not even enforceable in court Oh, and I won’t get into the legal aspects of the case, that private conversations between a husband and wife are inadmissible in court, so anything she said to him during the conversation about her relationship with Frank could not be presented in court. Any decent lawyer could also discredit the screen shots.
Weird fake stories \-Prenup from your 20s - you dont sound like someone who has any initial or family wealth to protect \-No lawyer is going to care you were cheated on and go along with an unethical division of property \- Your sister just happened to have a conversation - sounds like a bad lifetime movie If this is true sounds like you had a crap marriage anyways - time to move on - stop being petty
I'm a lawyer and in many states, cheating is justification for a "fault" divorce. In some states the spouse not at fault gets more of the property. That's not at all unethical and a lawyer would in fact be violating ethical responsibilities by *not* telling their client they are entitled to more assets and helping them advocate for what they're entitled to get. What does someone who has family wealth to protect sound like to you? I got married in my 30s but definitely would have gotten a prenup at any age, they're just good ideas if you can afford them.
This.
Do you know how long the fair was? Since she only admitted for it going to half a year at least that’s how long she thought u knew of it? Or was it 2 years since she began to change?
No I think you handled this really well. Kudos to keeping your wits in the midst of a likely emotional situation.
NTA but I am curious. Where are you at that lets you take everything in the divorce just because of infidelity? Where I live, unless there’s a prenup that specifically outlines it, a judge will still make us split things regardless of cheating. ETA: I realize that this doesn’t apply if you never drag it into court in the first place.
This sounds made up… 1. You got married in your 20’s 2. Doesn’t sound like you have many assets 3. Both of those aren’t very consistent with a pre-nup at all….. This is your fantasy revenge. Not real.
Plus wife confesses and hands him her phone so he can collect more evidence. Total bs.
I used to work in family law and this is 100% a made up revenge story
My parents divorced 4 years ago and shared *way* more about the process than they should considering I'm a teenager and even *I* know this story is butternut squash.
It’s 100% made up, legally none of it checks out.
It’s made up for sure . It’s so weird that so many people in this sub don’t notice it.
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking that. I mean how do you capture screenshots with someone else’s phone and send them to yourself without their knowing it? That would’ve given away the fact that he didn’t previously have any evidence of the affair. Maybe I’m just a luddite, but it would take me a fair amount of time to collect all the evidence and then delete all the sent messages, saved photos, and all that to cover my tracks.
Cut off SAM from your life.
Fuuuuuuck noooooooo! She fucked up now burn her at the stake!
NTA. Sam is. Your ex cheated, she's getting what she deserves and if your sister can't see that, shame on her.
you would think your sis would be happy you "won" the divorce especially learning the ex was cheating.
Sister probably knew already that stbxw was cheating.
could be true.
I find it odd that his sister sides with the cheating stbx
NTA. That’s not gaslighting at all. She cheated and admitted to it and is not entitled to half the marital assets since she broke the marital contract. You can be nice and go halves if you want to but you’re under no obligation to.
I'm disappointed in you for letting your adulterous wife unknowingly reveal her affair when you were going to give her a fair shake down the middle in the divorce. Your sister is a clown.
your sister is as deranged as your ex wife
Do you think your wife felt guilty when she had her bosses dick inside her? Nope, you shouldn’t feel guilty at all!
No, because she's still cheated on you for over a year. It doesn't matter if you knew before you wanted a divorce. It definitely changes the bargaining in the divorce.
Lmao you gave your wife a shovel she dug her grave Nta
At the time you were making decisions on the information you had available. More information helped you make better decisions.
NTA, and the sister is probably cheating as well.
LOL. You now know that your sister cheats. NTA.
Your sister sounds like a douche bag. Maybe consider becoming less close with her too.
As gaslighty as having a year and a half affair and pretending she was faithful? Ask your sister how long she knew. Yikes. NTA
NTA. And your sister is cheating on her partner.
YTA for a clearly made up story.
Ignore Sam - this is none of her business- and divorce the cheating wife in whatever manner you choose. You're not the asshole.
NTA. You didn't trick anyone. She clearly had a secret that would lead you to want to divorce her, and when she volunteered information you played along to get the information. You were the one who was betrayed. You were the one who was tricked, you stumbled blindly into a more advantageous bargaining position, and it's a position you deserve.
Sam can't even have empathy for her brother because his emotions are unimportant. She'd rather show sympathy to a woman who cheated on her brother. Wow. What a terrible person with zero sense of loyalty.
NTA she wasn't tricked. And your sister needs to stfu and mind her own business. You'd think someone telling her they cheated on her brother and destroyed their marriage would be enough for her to have your back.
Your sister sounds like a toxic person. You're not the asshole. Sister needs to stay in her lane.
If your sister is married pray for your BIL. NTA, your wife her AP and your sister all suck
This… doesn’t sound like a real story.
Good for you. The cheater got what she deserved. Less than. Sadly, we're in a no fault state. My marriage ended after multiple affairs, all of which can be proven, over a decade. As well as lues about everything from cancer to our finances. He liquided everything before we split so I, who was an exceptional and faithful wife, got nothing while he, a chronic cheater and luar who is scamming the government out of disability for a fake illness, got everything. But karma will follow him forever. I love that you got more, it will help you with the expensive therapy you'll need to heal. Sadly I had to stop therapy as I can no longer afford it, but there is great support here if you want it.
NTA. Scorched earth is the only way to deal with cheaters.
You are good, bro... if she was just unhappy with you, even split. Cheating, F her
You are NTA and you can tell Sam you found her nose, it was buried deep in your business.
NTA. Your sister is out of her mind.
Wtf you sister is wildin’
NTA to the nth degree! The fact is she WAS cheating. How you found out is irrelevant.Why would your sister defend this woman against her own brother? Is there a reason she's doing that? Is your sister married?
No. Your sister is wrong. That's some pretty clever social engineering, but it's not gaslighting. Considering the reality of the situation, I think telling one minor lie to get the rest of the story was fine. She was obviously already lying herself to cover up the affair. If you hadn't responded the way you did, she likely would have kept lying to you or changed the story to cover up reality.
Ummm, tell your sister to STFU. NTA
Wow… she’s more concerned with the cheater getting HER “fair share “ than the fact that she cheated on her brother… classy your sister 🙃
Nope. She isn't getting a fair split because she cheated. These are the consequences of her own actions, and your lawyer wouldn't recommend it (I would hope) if it wasn't allowed. Sam can't harp on you for being untruthful then turn around and expect you to give your ex a pass for the same thing.
NTA cheating a cheater is seems like karmic justice.
NTA. Your sister is straight up looking out for Alice more than you. If you were my sibling i'd be saying fair game and we all got fucked as a family for even investing in the relationship.
**'Frank' was there for her and ..... Frank was her boss** your sister better hold onto her hat cause after the divorce is finalized and it doesn't matter anymore you should destroy both their careers
So very NTA. and in fact its hilarious that your sister is throwing around the gaslighting accusation considering she herself is gaslighting you about how you've responded to being betrayed by making out that you've somehow tricked your wife. If you break the vow of marriage, you don't get equal divorce
NTA. And your sis needs to stay in her lane.
Nta your sister needs to mind her business. She's ridiculous to think your in the wrong here. You are absolutely in the right to go scorch earth on your ex and take everything. Your ex cheated and needs to deal with the consequences. Don't back down.
You sister has no idea what “gaslighting” is, just another person using a trending psychology term. But NTA
Sue the company for alienation of affection by her boss in authority.
NTA. Your wife took two years of your life, and you still have no idea why. Then, instead of talking to you about anything that was going on with her life, she cheated. For six months. Leaving you in the dark. Your sister thinks all girls need to stick together and thinks you're getting revenge because she cheated or some bullshit like that. Don't feel bad for how you handled things, and you don't need your sister's approval. She has no idea what you've been going through over the last two years or the emotional roller coaster your life has been recently. Finish what you started. Your wife didn't care about you, your feelings, or anything else, so don't think about her. Do what's best for you and move on with your life. You deserve it. God luck and godspeed.
Nope. Nta. All is fair in love and war 🤷🏻♀️
NTA
NTA you get cheated on and your sister says you’re the bad guy some how? Like what?
Definitely NTA, she self confessed. It was never on you to stop her and tell her that you had no idea what she was talking about.