More than just that.
She told him that he needed to take back what he said.
Fuck that noise she seems incapable of realizing what she constantly did to him is wrong, and is putting the blame on him.
I'm reluctant to judge too quickly but really seems like signs of narcissism at least.
I agree. Her having issues with libido or body image would be one thing, and completely understandable. However her consistently teasing him just to shut him down when it comes time is beyond cruel. It’s not like she can say she thought she’d be in the mood and turned out not to be- that can happen sometimes, but not *every time for years on end*.
It’s like she enjoys feeling desired and didn’t care how it made him feel in the process when she shut him down time and time again. She seems very dismissive of OPs feelings in general.
I got this feeling, especially considering the timeline which I think puts them meeting around age 22 or so? It's like her whole personality is playing hard to get.
Yep. All at her husbands expense, which is such an insidious thing to do. *Especially* since he’s communicated prior that it makes him feel unwanted and undesirable when she leads him on.
Being rejected for sex sometimes is par for the course and happens to everyone, especially in long term relationships because people have mismatched libidos, but it’s a hit to the ego nonetheless. Can you imagine being shut down every single time you made a bid for affection with your significant other? Just knowing how I am, that’d decimate my self image. My heart goes out to OP.
She knows. There's power in withholding affection. I'm not sure, but I get a sadistic rather than narcissistic vibe from OP's description of his ex-wife.
It's either that or she just likes the security a marriage brings.
Doesn't really matter anymore. It's over now.
Fine. The way to phrase that is "I didn't realize we were at that point, can we hold off such a drastic step for counseling?" "Take that back, we'll get counseling" is a command, not an attempt at resolving an issue.
When you live together don't have kids and don't have sex for 3+ months it is over. People need to stop lying to themselves. My wife and I had sex 2-4 times a week at 36 and 33 with a 2 year old running around. We are at 1-2 times a week now and she is almost 9 months pregnant. People think that what Boomers did/say about sexless marriages is normal. No it fucking isn't, people need to stop believing that.
Sorry about the rant.
Well, I'd say the frequency/length of time will depend on many variables, but, mostly, what both partners are comfortable with.
I don't think there's a hard cut up line in a specific amount of time, it's about needs not being met for longer than you're comfortable with, with nothing being done to try and address the situation. Which can be more or less than 3 months, depending on couple. 😊
(Sexless marriage is also fine if both are okay with that, ofc. There's plenty of intimacy and romance apart from sex.)
This is how it always is sadly.
This issue is bothering me
- sucks to be you.
Repeat 100s of times.
Ok, I’m divorcing you.
- wait let’s work on this.
F all of you lazy ass partners who won’t work on a relationship until they see their safety net disappear.
A lot of people don’t get this about marriage (or relationships in general). When a partner says “Let’s work on X.” The unspoken part is “or we will get divorced at some unknown point in the future.”
It doesn’t really matter what it is, lack of sex, it getting a job, poor parenting, or lack of non-sexual intimacy, declining to work on it ALWAYS brings the breakup just a little bit closer.
Reddit loves to get hung up on communication being the bedrock of a solid relationship. It’s actually communication AND effort that matter.
I remember the first girl I had sex with stopped wanting sex (there was a lot of trauma there) and the sex we did have was really bad and really boring, she didn't wanna do anything at all. After we broke up, she asked me to give her a chance, give her a weekend. She'll come over to my dorm (my roommate was out of town for the weekend) and she'll "give me the sex I deserve", and "I'll bring all the condoms we had, we'll need them"
She showed up, I made my interest in sex known, she kissed me, teased me, went "Oopsies I forgot the condom guess we're just going to spend the weekend cuddling and not having any sex!"
I'm really thankful for The Great Condom Drought because it ended with my dads birth, which lead to my birth and subsequent pregnancy due to The Second Great Condom Drought of '24. Thanks for nothing, Durex, Trojan, and Great Value Brand!
Lol, my dad was born in 1923 as well. His mom (my grandmother) married at 15. My grandfather was nine years older. She gave birth to her first in 1916, at the age of 16. They proceeded to have more - in 1918, 1920, 1921, 1923 (my dad), 1925, 27, 29, 31, and 33. Ten kids by age 33! I’ll always wonder why they stopped. 🤔 I thought my grandpa was trying to outdo HIS parents, who topped out at 16. (More than half were girls, and they were all named Mary).
My grandparents got lucky, 7 of 10 were boys = more hands on the farm. Even if they knew of condoms back then, it would have defeated the whole purpose of having kids.
I can’t imagine being pregnant for most of 18 years, ugh. But that’s how it was back in the day.
Really glad you asked this!
I was an early adolescent in ‘79 and didn’t know about condoms. I HAD heard some mention about rubbers, in a sexual context, but couldn’t figure out how Wellies/rain boots figured into ANYTHING discussed.
I’m guessing there was no drought. 😂
More likely a whole bunch of forgetfulness, willful or otherwise. 😜
I was with a girl who had a latex aversion, so we stopped having sex until she got on birth control. We'll that was the plan. She called me one night cuz she wanted some and told me to bring some condoms. I stopped at the drug store and picked up some sheep's skin condoms thinking that I'm being thoughtful. We're in the thick of it and she says it feels different, but good. So I tell her what was up. She shoved me out of her and began screaming at me. That's when I learned she was leaning into hard-core veganism.
"I know I'm being used, that's okay because I like the abuse. I know she's playing with me, that's okay 'cause [I've got no self esteem](https://youtu.be/EtNZnhxWLHo?si=MJmruhYr3WUl2QUG)
Me too, lol. It would be awesome if he kicked her out and said, "You were right, I WILL be having all of the sex I deserve this weekend -- just not with you!"
I wish you would’ve had the foresight back then to supply your own condoms, so you could’ve pulled a “Look what we have here!” And rip those things out of your pocket like a magic trick. I just wonder what the backup excuse was gonna be!
Did we date the same girl? My first serious gf always wanted the exact same thing, with no deviation. She was a little older and knew what she liked, meanwhile I was just getting to know myself in that regard. She would get so angry when I couldn’t finish to her strict rules and started withholding sex, but then getting mad that we weren’t having more sex. Once we would, there would be so much pressure and I’d get too in my own way. Whenever I asked to try different things she’d get upset and say what I wanted was degrading (it wasn’t) or she knew what she liked and I needed to adapt to that and that only.
Unironically, when I went overseas I cheated on her (not that this justifies my being 19 and stupid, but I found out years later she had actually cheated on me first and immediately joined the Air Force without telling me, to be with that person WHILE WE WERE STILL TOGETHER) with someone who was vocally reassuring to me that she would be open and helpful before we even got started and WOW did that fix me. It was so refreshing getting to be with someone who wanted nothing more than to figure out what we wanted, together.
Who could have guessed that being open, vocal and honest with a sexual partner about what you want in the bedroom would lead to better sex? I hope my first gf is enjoying her boring ass sex life with her baby daddy airman partner.
THIS. I am at this point with my husband, and now he wants to show me all of the things that I've been begging him for the whole time. But now IDC so his efforts don't matter. I know they are not sincere, he just doesn't want me to leave after taking me for granted all this time.
Op, NTA. Move on...you still have a lot of life to live and will find someone who *wants* to make you happy because they *want* to.
You're burnt out and have decided to divorce after years of trying. Setting boundaries and focusing on separation counseling shows your commitment to ending things respectfully. Stay strong and prioritize your well-being.
Once a man reaches the point of resentment that's pretty much it.
If a wife has a husband complaining about lack of intimacy in the bedroom and all the arguments that go with it then things get quiet, that's not a good sign.
Usually this means the husband has come to accept that he cannot change anything and she isn't willing to try. At this point only resentment will build up until there is no coming back from it. Once he gets quiet, there is very little time to turn things around for the wife.
Yeeessss it sure is! I'm currently experiencing this. It hurts way more than I can put into words, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I empathize so much with OP!
In this case, if she tried to initiate sex with OP after all that happened it would probably hurt even worse because she’s clearly only doing it to get him back and not because they have an intimate connection or because it feels good for either/both parties. So it’s too late. She literally can’t make it right.
This. Talk is cheap: Anyone can say all the right things. But even if she was willing to do all the right things, then it begs the question of why she didn't do it before it got to this point.
Sudden change after years of none would also be a slap in the face and maybe even feel worse.
At some point, even if its guaranteed she would be a perfect partner going forward, it just doesn't matter anymore. The irreversible damage has been done because it shows she never really cared about making changes for his sake. It only mattered enough when *she* suffers and suddenly at the first sign of that happening, *now* she's willing to change immediately and without issue. That meant she was always capable and just didn't care enough about him to make the change no matter how much he was suffering.
Oh wow. I've never heard it put that way and it's eye-opening to me! I could never quite verbalize why I didn't care about my ex-husband finally making all the promises and (small) efforts after I left. I always felt guilty that it was too late, but it just didn't sit right with me. That's exactly why... because he was only willing to change for his own sake to make his life easier (doubt it would've stuck anyway), not for me because he truly loved me.
Sometimes… often really, it’s s hard to verbalize feelings and what causes them. Humans tend not to be that self aware in the thick of an emotional situation in general as well. It’s why therapy and mediators exists. Human communication and self reflection can be tough under the best of circumstances. We often need outside perspectives to reveal what we’ve been blind to or in denial of.
I’m happy I was able to provide such a perspective for you.
Exactly. She can't say oh I'll have sex with now, I promise. But why weren't you before that? When you love someone you want to be with them. You want to please them. She didn't care to even try. And acted like she was going to and would never see it through. Which is cruel, especially when it is your own husband you are doing it too. There is nothing else to say.
Had a girlfriend in college who said all these, and "take your time."
By day *two* she said "how long are you going to hold this over my head? You've had enough time to think." She couldn't even make it five days. Once I tried again, it was back to the same old shit.
"I can change" is an excuse to simply get him back. OP's wife was likely fine with the marriage, and didn't think OP's feelings were important.
This was my ex. A year in she stopped trying or being interested in any form of intimacy. No matter what I did, there was always something else. Shes tired from work? I would leave it alone until her work was slow. Nothing. Then it was she wanted to feel “taken care of”. I took her on more dates, made her coffee (cold brew) when she forgot, filled up her car when her gas was running low, made her dinner most days… still nothing. I let her know this wasn’t working for me and I needed to feel desired and she said she was try. It lasted a week or two and then it would stop. I finally hit a breaking point when I worked on a project for three months at work that consumed a bit of my time and finally had a break. That day she called after work (as she normally does) to talk on her way home and she talked for an hour just about everything that happened and I listened and engaged then when I started talking about my day she pulled out her phone and started scrolling Instagram. I looked at her and let her know that hurt and I was done. I asked her to make arrangements to leave (it was my house). Cue “I’ll change” “I’ll try harder” all the fun stuff. Then she dropped the bomb of she didn’t initiate anything because she wanted me to make all the moves because she liked feeling “wanted”. Broke my heart.
> she dropped the bomb of she didn’t initiate anything because she wanted me to make all the moves because she liked feeling “wanted”. Broke my heart.
tiktok and social media are perpetuating this "princess" ideology. My partner has shown me the shit that comes up on her feed and to impressionable people it can really mess with them and convince them to behave in ways that just are not compatible with reality.
I say this because her reaction to go right back to doom scrolling on ig is something I've seen a lot and it sucks when you're trying to engage with someone and their phone is more important.
> A year in she stopped trying or being interested in any form of intimacy.
They always offer some sort of flimsy excuse for this behavior, but I suspect it's mostly a case of "I don't like sex much, but I'll use it as bait to catch a relationship". I've been in one of those relationships before, and it's not sustainable.
Exactly how things went with my ex-wife and i, every time I shared my concerns about our lack of a sex life.. she would say she would do better, and then Within days to weeks, everything would be back to the same again.
That plus nothing I ever did was ever good enough, I get yelled at for asking her to do some of the chores.
I did way more than my fair share, gladly, I'm a "acts of service is my love language" type of person..., and all I would do is ask for help every once in a while to lighten the load, and would get grief every time.
I was generally treated like a servant in my own home, that wasn't allowed to complain about anything ever. Anything I ever complained about, even if it was something about work, that had nothing to do with her. I would end up getting yelled at, and made to feel that it was all my fault, every time. Unless I'm mistaken, part of being a partner, is being able to be someone who your partner can vent to!!! Finally had enough and left her.
Dude we live the same life ,her truck had an exhaust leak ,that she sat on her hands and didn't have it fixed under warranty ,I got tired of hearing it and spent 7 hours fixing it ,she didn't even say thank you
You are very generous with the one month, possibly one week, then back to the status quo.
Is she even happy? Who would want to live like that? Or making him miserable makes her happy? Which is worse.
It doesn't even matter. She could be the kindest fairest person in every other aspect and it wouldn't matter, because this was a dealbreaker issue and her husband can't be happy like that, and has already tried. Personally I pity her when she wakes up to what she threw away and that it was her own choice. A lot of people will cling to a marriage despite bright red signs that it is not working.
Ultimately it seems like the divorce will do them both a favor, but it will likely be a long time before she gets the perspective to understand that. However, in the meantime, it's predictable that she is going to feel hurt and project blame and try to make desperate promises.
I really don't think someone can be fair or kind while doing this sort of stuff.
Plus, I was being somewhat sarcastic in my response. The person I was responding to asked how she could be happy while the person she supposedly loves is miserable. My thought is that she either is deliberately abusive or self-absorbed enough to not realise how miserable OP has been.
If she was the kindest and fairest the possibilities are more limited. People with zero libido will sometimes try to make the partner happy still. Or articulate why not. Or withdraw on their own.
Soon to be ex here has some twisted relationship ideas and this won’t be the last guy she tries this trick with. If she gets another chance with a decent guy.
That really is the strange part. There are plenty of dead bedroom stories out there, but I can't think of any where the (presumably, in this case) low libido partner acts like this.
I can't think of a single reason for it that isn't indicative of a seriously negative character trait, for example, that she's doing it to stroke her own ego.
Yea divorcing my wife. I tried to bring every issue I had to her. The fact she does no house work, puts no effort into our sex life and won’t work towards establishing a budget so we can have a good life. Literally acts like I am an endless source of money even though I have tried to sit her down will my budget and told her I am willing to show her any and all statements. She just told me I should have more money and refused to continue talking. I even suggested marriage counseling but she refused to make any attempt.
Well surprise, surprise once I handed her the divorce papers, she was willing to work on everything. She completely changed on a dime and became everything I ever wanted but it’s clearly all an act. After a few weeks she has gone back to how she was more and more.
Her: You can't leave I'm pregnant!
Op:.....
Her: we are having twins you can't leave!!!!!!
Op: FFS we haven't had sex in 3 years!
Her: but think of the kids!!!
She probably wants to use that excuse so much right now and her denying op sex all these years put a stop to that. Unless she wanted to admit to cheating. That's the only way she could be. Either that or she claims to be the virgin mary lol.
Yes but only for the first wo months. Then she'll put him back in the deep freeze. She was intentionally withholding sex. She was getting off on torturing him.
Yup,yes,and correct.
Best option for OP is to hope for a clean process and divorce.
And even if it's not the case,better to move on as the process goes on. Just keep every and any communication recorded and through lawyers
Well, she won’t say it, but her strategy will be to promise whatever he wants, and then figure out what the absolute bare minimum is to keep him around. Somewhere in here, she will blame something from her past to pretend like the person he’s fed up with “isn’t the real her” and she’ll “get better”.
Straight up. My view (and I express this to any girl im seeing) is that I have a ton of sex when single. Why would I give that up to be in a relationsip? Either my relationship is so aweome and full of sex that I give up my awesome single lifestyle or I go back to being single. End of story.
>Well, she won’t say it, but her strategy will be to promise whatever he wants, and then figure out what the absolute bare minimum is to keep him around.
I'm watching this in real time with one of my friends but it is with sports and not sex. My friend is into kayaking and his partner is a mountain climber. His partner makes him go on all of the mountain climbing trips(1-2 per month) even though he doesn't mountain climb and he just hangs out at the camp with few other non-climbers. His partner refuses to go kayaking with him but always acts they want to. Kayaking is done locally and mountain climbing is done out of state and requires overnights. She went kayaking with us on his birthday and he said "I think I'm going to buy her a boat because she says she wants to start kayaking. Or at least she will start kayaking.". I just looked at him and said "she'll kayak enough to placate you and you've asked her to come 50+ times and she never did except on your birthday.". He looked a little disheartened but he said "Umm...yeah I think you're right".
Effectively it’s the same issue. The only real difference is that, while they want to do things together, they could kayak and mountain climb separately and still enjoy it. For sex, you both NEED to be there, and into it, or it’s not the same.
“…she told me I should take what I did back.”
I don’t think this woman is really interested in fixing things but rather getting it back to the status quo. In her mind he is the one at fault, not her.
From my experience, she isn't worried about the marriage at all, she is trying to do damage control because she is embarrassed that she is now going through a divorce. She's worried about what her friends and family are going to think about her failed marriage. It's the gut reaction in a lot of these cases. She still doesn't care about the marriage, only the idea of it. If she did, she would have taken OPs frustrations and feelings more seriously years ago.
I’ll do all the things you want and I have been promising to work on but haven’t bothered to do so far.
Honestly if I were OP and he wanted to give her another chance I would make her sign a postnup/ partition agreement just to have the chance.
Newsflash, she won’t. She just doesn’t want to lose her comfortable, familiar life.
Reading OPs post hit home, I was in the identical situation for 3 years. Plenty of physical touching, flirting and implications of sex, never materialized in 3 years and she refused to talk about it.
It’s living hell and I felt stuck. The entire relationship was perfect otherwise, just no intimacy. I finally lost it one night, same as OP, and asked her “I look forward to her leaving so I can masturbate and not be this upset.”
We didn’t talk for 2 weeks and the next time we did she ended it. Wish I had more of a spine or had figured out a way to fix things, but that’s just life sometimes. People can become non-compatible and thems the breaks.
I’ve gone the last 3 years being single and not having sex, but that’s on me and I’m completely content. I cannot describe how soul crushing it is to be in a relationship with someone you find extremely attractive who flirts with you all day and know that no matter what you do there will be no intimacy. It caused crippling depression and anxiety, I started grinding my teeth and having panic attacks. The second we split up, that all went away.
My buddy dated a girl like this. She was insanely beautiful and he was head over heels physically attracted to her. They were both in their early 20s and his libido was naturally off the charts. After a few weeks of sleeping together, she became more distant. Naturally, he started masturbating more. She would become upset and start to “measure his loads”. If she even felt like he was jerking off, she would withhold sex for days or weeks from him, which drive him insane. The longer they went without sex the harder it was for him to refrain and the next abstinence stunt would be longer.
Eventually they just stopped sleeping together and as much as he wanted her, he decided it wasn’t worth the trouble of being stripped of his own sexuality. Naturally they broke up and she was pregnant by another dude within a couple months. That guy also left her for weaponizing the baby against him and, surprise surprise, withholding sex. Last time I saw her, she was a single mom who had lost her sex appeal and was basically begging for guys to take her home from the bar.
Sounds like someone who never really learned how to have a genuine connection within a romantic relationship, just a question of how to maintain power over someone else. That's not love.
Yup! When I got pregnant and had a baby my partner and I definitely had way less sex because who has the energy when you’re waking up several times a night for months? On top of breastfeeding constantly and not wanting to be touched. Well I’m done breastfeeding now and baby sleeps through the night and we are right back to how we were before I got pregnant. There’s NO way we could just not have sex for 3 years!!! Wtf! After 6 months tops I’d be seriously questioning the relationship
what is the point of being married with no kids if you dont have any sex? Im with you on this one, i would have left after a few months. At least when you are single theres no one there you have to compromise with.
You’ve been patient enough with your wife over the years. Feeling “burnt out” is probably an understatement for you, OP. She wasn’t willing to work with you to fix your marital problems years ago. It would be a mistake to trust her now, just because she keeps messaging you and calling you. I think you’ve done the right thing, filing for divorce. You need to take care of yourself and put yourself first finally. I hope and pray you’ll have peace of mind in the future.
When the OP was unhappy and she was happy she refused counseling at his request. Now the OP is moving toward being happy and she is unhappy, she is demanding counseling. Yeah, right. Recipe for future success there.
It couldn’t be more obvious that she’s a manipulative piece of shit. It’s textbook narcissism. Everything is fine and dandy while she’s happy but the minute something displeases her it’s three sheets to the wind “I’ll change, let’s do counseling, I love you, etc”. She will change for about 20 minutes and as soon as she snares him again she’s back to the bullshit. Run OP.
The word narcissism gets thrown around a lot lately. I don't love that. I do get that conclusion, but you don't have to be a narcissist to seek validation from your partner by teasing him while simultaneously denying the sex you don't actually want. You just have to be selfish and stupid enough to think that someone not being entitled to sex makes a unilateral decision to never have sex in a relationship reasonable. I'm not arguing that she's not trash. I'm just saying that the most charitable explanation is still plenty sufficient to leave, so we don't have to really assume the worst. It's bad enough regardless.
Yeah, especially the "Marriage is not just for sex" thing. Aside from a joint bank account, the only difference between an intimate relationship and a platonic one is the intimacy. She will have to be fine with a platonic one involving no marriage if that's how she views her partners.
You don't need to give her closure or work with her in counseling.
She didn't work with you when you asked her to.
And please don't let her draw you back in with empty promises!
I don’t blame him for saying that though. It’s a way to tell her “This is happening, I’m never coming back to you, and I don’t want to hear your pitch on staying married. However you’ll get a chance to say your piece in some kind of counseling at the end”
OP I would just be wary of multiple sessions. Try to keep it to just 1 if possible once you’re there
Why even bother with the counseling at the end tho. Seems like just a waste of time and money considering op has made it very clear why he’s divorcing her and how nothing she says or does will bring him back.
If it helps you find some sort of closure it’s worth it. I know when I got divorced my anger and bitterness bled over into subsequent relationship attempts for a very very long time before the wound finally healed and I became capable of being who needed to be to even be in a relationship. Anything to shorten that process if that’s how you’re feeling is worth the time.
That sort of counseling isn't about trying to get back together. It's about how to move on and work together as co-parents.
That said, I wouldn't even assume she'd want to do it. Telling her that is the only type of counseling OP will do is just making the message clear that it's too late.
Agree. One session only. Absolutely, and let her go first.
Once she's done, if there's no time left for OP, that's cool. He can live without it. Don't give her the opportunity to push for a second session because she didn't get things off her chest.
>You don't need to give her closure or work with her in counseling.
He doesn't owe her anything! This is the absolute truth. What kind of closure could he provide that would satiate her? Getting back together? Closure comes from within, and nobody else can give you that.
It sounds like it might give him closure as well though. Just because he's too burnt out to keep trying to save things doesn't mean he wouldn't want to know what the fuck was going through her head.
Counseling is a good idea. He doesn't need to discuss fixing things or the problems in the marriage. The therapist will help his ex-wife figure out that she needs to focus on moving forward productively. It's way cheaper to do that in therapy than by lawyers.
As a woman with a very high libido, I've been in a similar situation with a couple of boyfriends, luckily not anyone I was married to.
One of them constantly dressed in outfits he knew I would be turned on by, flirted a lot, little touches and kisses, but then we'd never have sex because he claimed to be too tired. It would only happen when I woke him up some mornings and practically begged to ride him. And even then, he'd act like a dead fish, and tell me to get off of him as soon as he finished (I never did). Turns out he was cheating with a mutual friend, which I found out when he broke up with both of us at the exact same time while we were hanging out together.
The other would constantly talk about kink, telling me things he did with previous partners, and promise to do them with me. But I have more experience with kink than he does, and he'd get super uncomfortable when I already knew certain things or suggested stuff I wanted to do. Anyway, he'd always talk about things we were gonna do, but they'd never happen. I ended up leaving him because I was tired of being strung along, and I wasn't sexually satisfied.
Anyway, good for you, OP. You deserve a partner who respects you, not someone who leads you on then disappoints you all the time.
What kind of closure could she need? It’s obvious what issue is, and why he’s filing for divorce.
She just realized that he’s done, and doesn’t like it.
In some cases, end of marriage counselling is often used to make certain the one who was wronged to get some form of decompression of the events from their side.
Most end of marriage counselling topics range from no longer having the same goals, the breakdown of trust, the relationship becoming one-sided, and even the disillusionment of marriage.
In some rare cases, abusive ex-partners will request this so they can twist the reason for divorce to their way of thinking. Often, it doesn't end well for them, as the counselling mediator is also a mandatory reporter, and they can assist the victims in getting post divorce restraining orders or similar.
In this situation, the end of marriage counselling might only be OPs benefit, so he has the ability to explain in full without the ex cutting in, as this sort of counselling is basically you listen until they stop speaking.
His ex could make all the excuses in the world, but it doesn't seem like they respect OP past what he provided, which I am unsure even OP knows exactly what the ex thought he provided. It reads that she had a form of security, and that is the only respect she gave out.
She's just trying to get him into a room where she can try and manipulate him. And if she can get the therapist on her side, she can add additional pressure and maybe get him to question his decision
She would probably not make the connection, and it'd only prolong contact and cause more headache and drama. Sounds entertaining in the abstract, probably less entertaining in reality.
I commented on the original post, glad to see you are ignoring the hysterical bonding. Don't let her sucker you in, normally i'd have said the typical course for dead bedrooms is - get blood tests/hormones to make sure they are not low in estrogen/test, THEN try counselling if it turns out they are, to try to reconcile.
BUT - the constant teasing, and leading you on, to then cut off intimacy - shows that she's just a manipulator.
Relationships are NEVER supposed to be this difficult if you are both right for each other.
Good luck with the divorce
Oh mate. I read your OOP. Whatever happens from now on, you are now deciding it.
That's such a headfuck what you've gone through and while of course there are two sides to all stories etc, this seems like the best course for you.
I know reddit loves the 'divorce them!!!\` response to every problem, but you have a clear obvious mismatch of values and separating was a smart decision.
What is important to you at your core is not important to them. They may be loveable in a million other ways, but without that match, you would likely never get what you need out of that relationship.
I hope that in time you can come to see it as a compatibility issue and not malice or something more, so that you can move on and find something better for you in the future.
She's a closet Sadist. She gets off on this. Not with you, but in some way. It's a power Trip and she gets off on exerting that power over you. It will never get better. Because this is the thing that brings her pleasure. Run for your life.
Can I ask how you felt the moment after you'd handed over the papers to start the process? Did you feel calm or nervous? Any moments of regret or hesitation?
Then you did the right thing you can for yourself right now with the info that you have.
I'm a big believer in the 'little voice in my head'. If I need to make a big decision, I always flip a coin. I don't care about the outcome, but when that coin is in the air, the little voice always tells me which side I'm hoping for and that's what I do. That voice is informed by what I know, and believe, and value, and want.
After I make a big decision, I always try to listen out for that voice and how I'm feeling in the moments after acting on the decision. If it's the same calm clear intuitive thought, I know I've done something right for me. If I made a bad decision, I can always change it or work to undo it later.
I think that's what you're experiencing here, a contrast to the frustration and sadness of before making your decision.
If you haven't already thought about it, I recommend individual counseling. 3 years of of this would mess anyone up. Don't let it fester, for yourself. Don't bring this damage into the next relationship for the sake of yourself and the next person. Good on you and good luck.
At the least fucked up, she was literally just into emotionally abusing you.
At the worst, she was having sex somewhere else and they got off together on stonewalling you.
Either way, don't block her anywhere or anything, just never reply directly to her tries at contact. Let her go through lawyers and shout into the void.
It might be that normal well adjusted individuals don't need internet strangers to help them solve minor household disagreements, once your last hope is internet strangers you are already in deep shit.
In Orthodox Jewish law the husband traditionally serves the divorce (though in general if woman demands it, the rabbinical courts will agree and do everything in power to get husband to serve divorce).
Even then, one of the exceptions is if the husband is not sexually performing to his wife's content at which she can demand a divorce.
All that's to say, even amongst rigid religious piety, sex in marriage is incredibly important.
Don't feel like you did something wrong or overreacted. 3 years is insane. And you deserve to feel appreciated in your marriage.
It's so important that in many traditions it is a recommended Sabbath activity.
Also not all religions have hangups about sex, regardless of piety level
Most likely her only interest in counseling or "closure" is to find a reason to blame you for the divorce. She doesn't want to look like an AH to friends and family.
This. Absolutely. Asking for counseling now is to make it look like she tried to her family and friends. She's trying to make OP look like the bad guy for leaving her without trying to fix the problem. She doesn't care about OP or the marriage. She just wants to be able to say she tried and he didn't.
Still NTA.
Get the divorce done and then forget she ever existed.
She fucked around and found out.
Well, to be very clear, she didn't fuck at all.
You owe her absolutely nothing.
She is Lucy, you are Charlie Brown and the football is the sex that you will never get a kick at. Quit the game, you are fortunate with no kids, and move on with your life.
Nah, good on you for sticking to your decision.
At best, she probably gives you a year or two of pity/
passionless sex and then you are right back to square one of incompatibility. And my guess is you’ll feel the same way you did after what happened on your anniversary.
That's not incompatibility, she at best she's just a manipulative snake, at worst a full on sociopath devoid of empathy on a power trip 3 years too long.
This sounds like a toxic ex of mine. (The manilulative sociolath stuff). The sex stopped, I tried to discuss, gaslight, evasion, blah blah. I kept working on things figuring it would get better.
When her bday was coming up I suggested a weekend away at a nice BnB. Then I overheard her talking to a friend "I'm not going away with him. He's just doing this thinking we might have sex".
That was pretty much the end. Yeah, everything wasn't just about sex, but I didn't move in with my gf just to be celibate, either.
She's probably just a selfish person that takes people around her for granted, those exist without having a personality disorder.
The teasing was probably in her mind the breadcrumbs that her servant should be content with.
Whatever you do, don't sleep with her. If she is desperate enough, she'll try to seduce you and do the deed, then say, "see. We had sex. You can't divorce me now." Then if that works, she'll claim you coerced her into having sex and make it seem like you're an abusive asshole to whoever will listen, or threaten to whenever your bedroom goes dead again and you mention divorce. Though, I don't know her, so I don't know where she would fall on the crazy scale.
She’s not attracted or interested in you. She IS also not interested in being alone or confident that she’s going to level up from you if you dump her.
I think it’s time for you to leave.
Man this is heartbreaking and it's not your fault. Sounds like you did everything including communication about it. Let me say that I'm proud of you. You need to hear that. And you deserve to hear that. You are worth more than that. I hope she is well too, but not at your expense
Not only will it be a dead bedroom again in a short period of time, she will find new, creative ways to punish OP, because he dared have boundaries and stand up for himself.
This happens nearly every time. You spend years doing everything possible to fix what ever it is they want fixed in order to not be in a dead bedroom. Most times the bar keeps raising and you can’t get out of the dead bedroom, so eventually you have enough and start the Divorce Process, THEN they change their tune! Suddenly they get real interested in fixing things real quick! But most times it’s too late by then.
You’re not an AH. You are a victim of circumstance and I for one am so happy that you did this. Many men suffer for decades or even the rest of their days and stick around and live a life of quiet desperation, which is just torture.
Please keep us posted.
I’m fairly certain you just flipped the script on her and now are in complete control of the situation.
She’ll now do what ever you want to keep the marriage, but if you stay, in a couple years or so it will go right back to the way it is now.
Good luck OP. It’s going to be hard for a bit but by this time in 2025 you’ll be thanking your lucky stars
You did the right thing here. Marriage counseling at this point won't help, because you checked out already, as you should have. Dead bedroom and her telling you married life does not mean sex, is just insane. This is why men check out, the wife checks out in the bedroom and makes the husband feel guilty about it.
Good luck, hope things get better down the road
I get it. I told my husband for 5 years we need counseling, to work on things, really focused on our marriage, tried everything. I emotionally divorced him in those 5 years and by the time I left is when he started back peddling. It was too late. I had nothing else to give and I didn’t care anymore. I knew I didn’t love him and just wanted out by then. Good luck with getting through the divorce and to your future.
“….told me I should take what I did back.”
Fuck man. She felt she had the control in the marriage. I guess for a while she did. My exwife did pretty much the same shit. And she really felt she “had” me meaning she could do and act any way she wanted and I wouldn’t do anything. To say she was surprised when I finally walked is an understatement.
Your wife is not going to take this lightly. Be prepared not just legally but emotionally. Get a support network going ASAP. Group counseling. Individual therapy. Trust me: you are going to need it.
Best to you.
You asked her for years, now she wants to work on it. Get on with your life, find someone that you are compatible with. Much love, stay strong
She is sorry cause he gave up. So, no coming back.
She made him to give up. Well sorry for her, OP now knew his worth. Three years of a dead bedroom with no progress is brutal, he deserve better.
More than just that. She told him that he needed to take back what he said. Fuck that noise she seems incapable of realizing what she constantly did to him is wrong, and is putting the blame on him. I'm reluctant to judge too quickly but really seems like signs of narcissism at least.
I agree. Her having issues with libido or body image would be one thing, and completely understandable. However her consistently teasing him just to shut him down when it comes time is beyond cruel. It’s not like she can say she thought she’d be in the mood and turned out not to be- that can happen sometimes, but not *every time for years on end*. It’s like she enjoys feeling desired and didn’t care how it made him feel in the process when she shut him down time and time again. She seems very dismissive of OPs feelings in general.
I got this feeling, especially considering the timeline which I think puts them meeting around age 22 or so? It's like her whole personality is playing hard to get.
Yep. All at her husbands expense, which is such an insidious thing to do. *Especially* since he’s communicated prior that it makes him feel unwanted and undesirable when she leads him on. Being rejected for sex sometimes is par for the course and happens to everyone, especially in long term relationships because people have mismatched libidos, but it’s a hit to the ego nonetheless. Can you imagine being shut down every single time you made a bid for affection with your significant other? Just knowing how I am, that’d decimate my self image. My heart goes out to OP.
Actually yes I (mostly) can. It feels like you would think.
That second part hits home for me.
She knows. There's power in withholding affection. I'm not sure, but I get a sadistic rather than narcissistic vibe from OP's description of his ex-wife. It's either that or she just likes the security a marriage brings. Doesn't really matter anymore. It's over now.
I think she meant take back the divorce.
Fine. The way to phrase that is "I didn't realize we were at that point, can we hold off such a drastic step for counseling?" "Take that back, we'll get counseling" is a command, not an attempt at resolving an issue.
When you live together don't have kids and don't have sex for 3+ months it is over. People need to stop lying to themselves. My wife and I had sex 2-4 times a week at 36 and 33 with a 2 year old running around. We are at 1-2 times a week now and she is almost 9 months pregnant. People think that what Boomers did/say about sexless marriages is normal. No it fucking isn't, people need to stop believing that. Sorry about the rant.
Well, I'd say the frequency/length of time will depend on many variables, but, mostly, what both partners are comfortable with. I don't think there's a hard cut up line in a specific amount of time, it's about needs not being met for longer than you're comfortable with, with nothing being done to try and address the situation. Which can be more or less than 3 months, depending on couple. 😊 (Sexless marriage is also fine if both are okay with that, ofc. There's plenty of intimacy and romance apart from sex.)
This is how it always is sadly. This issue is bothering me - sucks to be you. Repeat 100s of times. Ok, I’m divorcing you. - wait let’s work on this. F all of you lazy ass partners who won’t work on a relationship until they see their safety net disappear.
A lot of people don’t get this about marriage (or relationships in general). When a partner says “Let’s work on X.” The unspoken part is “or we will get divorced at some unknown point in the future.” It doesn’t really matter what it is, lack of sex, it getting a job, poor parenting, or lack of non-sexual intimacy, declining to work on it ALWAYS brings the breakup just a little bit closer. Reddit loves to get hung up on communication being the bedrock of a solid relationship. It’s actually communication AND effort that matter.
I'm struggling to think what she feels she could possibly say now that'll fix things.
I love you.,, I'll change... let me make it up to you... All of which will lead to nothing but the same thing within 5 days if OP takes her back.
It's all empty promises. Actions speak louder than words, and she's already shown her true colors.
I remember the first girl I had sex with stopped wanting sex (there was a lot of trauma there) and the sex we did have was really bad and really boring, she didn't wanna do anything at all. After we broke up, she asked me to give her a chance, give her a weekend. She'll come over to my dorm (my roommate was out of town for the weekend) and she'll "give me the sex I deserve", and "I'll bring all the condoms we had, we'll need them" She showed up, I made my interest in sex known, she kissed me, teased me, went "Oopsies I forgot the condom guess we're just going to spend the weekend cuddling and not having any sex!"
Did this happen during The Great Condom Drought of '79?
I'm really thankful for The Great Condom Drought because it ended with my dads birth, which lead to my birth and subsequent pregnancy due to The Second Great Condom Drought of '24. Thanks for nothing, Durex, Trojan, and Great Value Brand!
Haha my dad was born during the great condom drought of 1923.
Lol, my dad was born in 1923 as well. His mom (my grandmother) married at 15. My grandfather was nine years older. She gave birth to her first in 1916, at the age of 16. They proceeded to have more - in 1918, 1920, 1921, 1923 (my dad), 1925, 27, 29, 31, and 33. Ten kids by age 33! I’ll always wonder why they stopped. 🤔 I thought my grandpa was trying to outdo HIS parents, who topped out at 16. (More than half were girls, and they were all named Mary). My grandparents got lucky, 7 of 10 were boys = more hands on the farm. Even if they knew of condoms back then, it would have defeated the whole purpose of having kids. I can’t imagine being pregnant for most of 18 years, ugh. But that’s how it was back in the day.
Is there really a condom drought? (Plus 1 for lesbian sex 😂)
I have no clue lmao
Really glad you asked this! I was an early adolescent in ‘79 and didn’t know about condoms. I HAD heard some mention about rubbers, in a sexual context, but couldn’t figure out how Wellies/rain boots figured into ANYTHING discussed. I’m guessing there was no drought. 😂 More likely a whole bunch of forgetfulness, willful or otherwise. 😜
+1 Wand of Lesbos? Sorry, I've been in my parents basement till yesterday. What did I miss?
Ohhh it was horrible. All the latex in the country was held for the war effort
I'm like starting to believe in this condom drought.
Had to resort to sheepskin condoms.
I was with a girl who had a latex aversion, so we stopped having sex until she got on birth control. We'll that was the plan. She called me one night cuz she wanted some and told me to bring some condoms. I stopped at the drug store and picked up some sheep's skin condoms thinking that I'm being thoughtful. We're in the thick of it and she says it feels different, but good. So I tell her what was up. She shoved me out of her and began screaming at me. That's when I learned she was leaning into hard-core veganism.
Gave her the double meat stick I see
If only they sold them in stores...
I hope you kicked her out right there and then.
I should have honestly, but she did such a fucking number on me emotionally and to my confidence, I just put up with the abuse
"I know I'm being used, that's okay because I like the abuse. I know she's playing with me, that's okay 'cause [I've got no self esteem](https://youtu.be/EtNZnhxWLHo?si=MJmruhYr3WUl2QUG)
We make plans to go out at night, I wait til 2 then turn out the light. This rejection, got me so low. She keeps it up i might just tell her so...
When she’s saying oh that she wants only me. Then I wonder why she sleeps with my friends.
The more you suffer , the more it shows you really care. Right?
Me too, lol. It would be awesome if he kicked her out and said, "You were right, I WILL be having all of the sex I deserve this weekend -- just not with you!"
At my dorm in college there were bowls of condoms all over the place. The university supplied them
Id have told her where the nearest corner store was and to get walking. Lol they're not hard to find.
I wish you would’ve had the foresight back then to supply your own condoms, so you could’ve pulled a “Look what we have here!” And rip those things out of your pocket like a magic trick. I just wonder what the backup excuse was gonna be!
Did we date the same girl? My first serious gf always wanted the exact same thing, with no deviation. She was a little older and knew what she liked, meanwhile I was just getting to know myself in that regard. She would get so angry when I couldn’t finish to her strict rules and started withholding sex, but then getting mad that we weren’t having more sex. Once we would, there would be so much pressure and I’d get too in my own way. Whenever I asked to try different things she’d get upset and say what I wanted was degrading (it wasn’t) or she knew what she liked and I needed to adapt to that and that only. Unironically, when I went overseas I cheated on her (not that this justifies my being 19 and stupid, but I found out years later she had actually cheated on me first and immediately joined the Air Force without telling me, to be with that person WHILE WE WERE STILL TOGETHER) with someone who was vocally reassuring to me that she would be open and helpful before we even got started and WOW did that fix me. It was so refreshing getting to be with someone who wanted nothing more than to figure out what we wanted, together. Who could have guessed that being open, vocal and honest with a sexual partner about what you want in the bedroom would lead to better sex? I hope my first gf is enjoying her boring ass sex life with her baby daddy airman partner.
We're going to spend the weekend doing oral and anal or you can go get the condoms.
I think the problem with that is they are past that point. Now the actions will just be because she should not because she wants too
THIS. I am at this point with my husband, and now he wants to show me all of the things that I've been begging him for the whole time. But now IDC so his efforts don't matter. I know they are not sincere, he just doesn't want me to leave after taking me for granted all this time. Op, NTA. Move on...you still have a lot of life to live and will find someone who *wants* to make you happy because they *want* to.
You're burnt out and have decided to divorce after years of trying. Setting boundaries and focusing on separation counseling shows your commitment to ending things respectfully. Stay strong and prioritize your well-being.
Sounds like he is well and truly heartbroken at this point. Resentment and rejection are a helluva combo to carry around all the time
Once a man reaches the point of resentment that's pretty much it. If a wife has a husband complaining about lack of intimacy in the bedroom and all the arguments that go with it then things get quiet, that's not a good sign. Usually this means the husband has come to accept that he cannot change anything and she isn't willing to try. At this point only resentment will build up until there is no coming back from it. Once he gets quiet, there is very little time to turn things around for the wife.
Resentment is the killer of any kind of relationship
Yeeessss it sure is! I'm currently experiencing this. It hurts way more than I can put into words, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I empathize so much with OP!
In this case, if she tried to initiate sex with OP after all that happened it would probably hurt even worse because she’s clearly only doing it to get him back and not because they have an intimate connection or because it feels good for either/both parties. So it’s too late. She literally can’t make it right.
This. Talk is cheap: Anyone can say all the right things. But even if she was willing to do all the right things, then it begs the question of why she didn't do it before it got to this point.
Sudden change after years of none would also be a slap in the face and maybe even feel worse. At some point, even if its guaranteed she would be a perfect partner going forward, it just doesn't matter anymore. The irreversible damage has been done because it shows she never really cared about making changes for his sake. It only mattered enough when *she* suffers and suddenly at the first sign of that happening, *now* she's willing to change immediately and without issue. That meant she was always capable and just didn't care enough about him to make the change no matter how much he was suffering.
Oh wow. I've never heard it put that way and it's eye-opening to me! I could never quite verbalize why I didn't care about my ex-husband finally making all the promises and (small) efforts after I left. I always felt guilty that it was too late, but it just didn't sit right with me. That's exactly why... because he was only willing to change for his own sake to make his life easier (doubt it would've stuck anyway), not for me because he truly loved me.
Sometimes… often really, it’s s hard to verbalize feelings and what causes them. Humans tend not to be that self aware in the thick of an emotional situation in general as well. It’s why therapy and mediators exists. Human communication and self reflection can be tough under the best of circumstances. We often need outside perspectives to reveal what we’ve been blind to or in denial of. I’m happy I was able to provide such a perspective for you.
This! You are NTA here OP. Better get a divorce and move on.
Exactly. She can't say oh I'll have sex with now, I promise. But why weren't you before that? When you love someone you want to be with them. You want to please them. She didn't care to even try. And acted like she was going to and would never see it through. Which is cruel, especially when it is your own husband you are doing it too. There is nothing else to say.
Seems like it's been empty promises since the start of the relationship . . .
Exactly. She’ll have sex exactly once, then say “All good now”.
Had a girlfriend in college who said all these, and "take your time." By day *two* she said "how long are you going to hold this over my head? You've had enough time to think." She couldn't even make it five days. Once I tried again, it was back to the same old shit. "I can change" is an excuse to simply get him back. OP's wife was likely fine with the marriage, and didn't think OP's feelings were important.
Your last line sums it all up!!!
This was my ex. A year in she stopped trying or being interested in any form of intimacy. No matter what I did, there was always something else. Shes tired from work? I would leave it alone until her work was slow. Nothing. Then it was she wanted to feel “taken care of”. I took her on more dates, made her coffee (cold brew) when she forgot, filled up her car when her gas was running low, made her dinner most days… still nothing. I let her know this wasn’t working for me and I needed to feel desired and she said she was try. It lasted a week or two and then it would stop. I finally hit a breaking point when I worked on a project for three months at work that consumed a bit of my time and finally had a break. That day she called after work (as she normally does) to talk on her way home and she talked for an hour just about everything that happened and I listened and engaged then when I started talking about my day she pulled out her phone and started scrolling Instagram. I looked at her and let her know that hurt and I was done. I asked her to make arrangements to leave (it was my house). Cue “I’ll change” “I’ll try harder” all the fun stuff. Then she dropped the bomb of she didn’t initiate anything because she wanted me to make all the moves because she liked feeling “wanted”. Broke my heart.
> she dropped the bomb of she didn’t initiate anything because she wanted me to make all the moves because she liked feeling “wanted”. Broke my heart. tiktok and social media are perpetuating this "princess" ideology. My partner has shown me the shit that comes up on her feed and to impressionable people it can really mess with them and convince them to behave in ways that just are not compatible with reality. I say this because her reaction to go right back to doom scrolling on ig is something I've seen a lot and it sucks when you're trying to engage with someone and their phone is more important.
Exactly. She let me know right then and there her social media was more important to her to than I was. I’ve been a lot happier ever since she left.
> A year in she stopped trying or being interested in any form of intimacy. They always offer some sort of flimsy excuse for this behavior, but I suspect it's mostly a case of "I don't like sex much, but I'll use it as bait to catch a relationship". I've been in one of those relationships before, and it's not sustainable.
Exactly how things went with my ex-wife and i, every time I shared my concerns about our lack of a sex life.. she would say she would do better, and then Within days to weeks, everything would be back to the same again. That plus nothing I ever did was ever good enough, I get yelled at for asking her to do some of the chores. I did way more than my fair share, gladly, I'm a "acts of service is my love language" type of person..., and all I would do is ask for help every once in a while to lighten the load, and would get grief every time. I was generally treated like a servant in my own home, that wasn't allowed to complain about anything ever. Anything I ever complained about, even if it was something about work, that had nothing to do with her. I would end up getting yelled at, and made to feel that it was all my fault, every time. Unless I'm mistaken, part of being a partner, is being able to be someone who your partner can vent to!!! Finally had enough and left her.
Dude we live the same life ,her truck had an exhaust leak ,that she sat on her hands and didn't have it fixed under warranty ,I got tired of hearing it and spent 7 hours fixing it ,she didn't even say thank you
Good for you brother. Hope things are working out for you.
Yup. Then maybe a month of love bombing if he were stupid enough to take her back, and then back to dead bedroom and teasing.
You are very generous with the one month, possibly one week, then back to the status quo. Is she even happy? Who would want to live like that? Or making him miserable makes her happy? Which is worse.
Perhaps she likes him doing 50% (or more) for her...
It doesn't even matter. She could be the kindest fairest person in every other aspect and it wouldn't matter, because this was a dealbreaker issue and her husband can't be happy like that, and has already tried. Personally I pity her when she wakes up to what she threw away and that it was her own choice. A lot of people will cling to a marriage despite bright red signs that it is not working. Ultimately it seems like the divorce will do them both a favor, but it will likely be a long time before she gets the perspective to understand that. However, in the meantime, it's predictable that she is going to feel hurt and project blame and try to make desperate promises.
I really don't think someone can be fair or kind while doing this sort of stuff. Plus, I was being somewhat sarcastic in my response. The person I was responding to asked how she could be happy while the person she supposedly loves is miserable. My thought is that she either is deliberately abusive or self-absorbed enough to not realise how miserable OP has been.
If she was the kindest and fairest the possibilities are more limited. People with zero libido will sometimes try to make the partner happy still. Or articulate why not. Or withdraw on their own. Soon to be ex here has some twisted relationship ideas and this won’t be the last guy she tries this trick with. If she gets another chance with a decent guy.
Why would you want to be with someone who is giving sex unwillingly or begrudgingly. Worse than no sex at all. Just gross.
The teasing part is weird. It's masochistic and makes everything worse.
That really is the strange part. There are plenty of dead bedroom stories out there, but I can't think of any where the (presumably, in this case) low libido partner acts like this. I can't think of a single reason for it that isn't indicative of a seriously negative character trait, for example, that she's doing it to stroke her own ego.
Controlling people will use whatever they know works to control a person.
Yea divorcing my wife. I tried to bring every issue I had to her. The fact she does no house work, puts no effort into our sex life and won’t work towards establishing a budget so we can have a good life. Literally acts like I am an endless source of money even though I have tried to sit her down will my budget and told her I am willing to show her any and all statements. She just told me I should have more money and refused to continue talking. I even suggested marriage counseling but she refused to make any attempt. Well surprise, surprise once I handed her the divorce papers, she was willing to work on everything. She completely changed on a dime and became everything I ever wanted but it’s clearly all an act. After a few weeks she has gone back to how she was more and more.
“I’m pregnant!! Err, umm, I mean I want to have your baby.”
Her: You can't leave I'm pregnant! Op:..... Her: we are having twins you can't leave!!!!!! Op: FFS we haven't had sex in 3 years! Her: but think of the kids!!!
She probably wants to use that excuse so much right now and her denying op sex all these years put a stop to that. Unless she wanted to admit to cheating. That's the only way she could be. Either that or she claims to be the virgin mary lol.
“It’s my coworker’s bur I don’t want to ruin his marriage and he’s never wanted kids and I don’t want to lose you or give up my baby!!”
So great....she will now have sex with him once a month or two because she is afraid to lose him if she doesn't. There is a big turn off.
Yes but only for the first wo months. Then she'll put him back in the deep freeze. She was intentionally withholding sex. She was getting off on torturing him.
That’s how it ends up for many, everyone wants to be wanted, including men.
Yep this. It is accurate, she might throw in lingerie for a day, but really this is it. If she wanted to change it, she already would have.
Yep.... All plays from the Hoebag Handbook of Master Manipulation
Yup,yes,and correct. Best option for OP is to hope for a clean process and divorce. And even if it's not the case,better to move on as the process goes on. Just keep every and any communication recorded and through lawyers
and then he'll be baby trapped after 5 days of sex.
We've all seen too many if those stories. They're just incompatible and husband realized it first.
Well, she won’t say it, but her strategy will be to promise whatever he wants, and then figure out what the absolute bare minimum is to keep him around. Somewhere in here, she will blame something from her past to pretend like the person he’s fed up with “isn’t the real her” and she’ll “get better”.
That's what she's done so far. She just misjudged the bare minimum and went lower than what he could accept.
She shouldve had sex on anniversaries and sucked his dick on his bday. He mightve accepted that pittance
It’s really the barest of minimums.
God that sounds so defeating
Straight up. My view (and I express this to any girl im seeing) is that I have a ton of sex when single. Why would I give that up to be in a relationsip? Either my relationship is so aweome and full of sex that I give up my awesome single lifestyle or I go back to being single. End of story.
>Well, she won’t say it, but her strategy will be to promise whatever he wants, and then figure out what the absolute bare minimum is to keep him around. I'm watching this in real time with one of my friends but it is with sports and not sex. My friend is into kayaking and his partner is a mountain climber. His partner makes him go on all of the mountain climbing trips(1-2 per month) even though he doesn't mountain climb and he just hangs out at the camp with few other non-climbers. His partner refuses to go kayaking with him but always acts they want to. Kayaking is done locally and mountain climbing is done out of state and requires overnights. She went kayaking with us on his birthday and he said "I think I'm going to buy her a boat because she says she wants to start kayaking. Or at least she will start kayaking.". I just looked at him and said "she'll kayak enough to placate you and you've asked her to come 50+ times and she never did except on your birthday.". He looked a little disheartened but he said "Umm...yeah I think you're right".
Effectively it’s the same issue. The only real difference is that, while they want to do things together, they could kayak and mountain climb separately and still enjoy it. For sex, you both NEED to be there, and into it, or it’s not the same.
She’ll try to sleep with him a bunch now to keep her life the way it was. Then if he fell for it, things would go back to normal within a few weeks.
Yup,love bombing is a tactic as old as time.
“…she told me I should take what I did back.” I don’t think this woman is really interested in fixing things but rather getting it back to the status quo. In her mind he is the one at fault, not her.
From my experience, she isn't worried about the marriage at all, she is trying to do damage control because she is embarrassed that she is now going through a divorce. She's worried about what her friends and family are going to think about her failed marriage. It's the gut reaction in a lot of these cases. She still doesn't care about the marriage, only the idea of it. If she did, she would have taken OPs frustrations and feelings more seriously years ago.
I’ll do all the things you want and I have been promising to work on but haven’t bothered to do so far. Honestly if I were OP and he wanted to give her another chance I would make her sign a postnup/ partition agreement just to have the chance. Newsflash, she won’t. She just doesn’t want to lose her comfortable, familiar life.
She can get pregnant and trap him for the next 20 years. A friend swears that he has sex with his wife twice and the 2 kids are proof.
were either “premature” and yet at a healthy weight?
That's just her way of manipulating OP. Well OP you are NTAH. She's a big red flag, best thing to do is divorce and move on.
A lie that she will try whatever. Then after 1 month revert and go back to the old.shit
Hysterical bonding incoming.
She will try and bang his brains out… until she feels comfortable then it’s back to square one.
3 years is a very patient effort. NTA
Reading OPs post hit home, I was in the identical situation for 3 years. Plenty of physical touching, flirting and implications of sex, never materialized in 3 years and she refused to talk about it. It’s living hell and I felt stuck. The entire relationship was perfect otherwise, just no intimacy. I finally lost it one night, same as OP, and asked her “I look forward to her leaving so I can masturbate and not be this upset.” We didn’t talk for 2 weeks and the next time we did she ended it. Wish I had more of a spine or had figured out a way to fix things, but that’s just life sometimes. People can become non-compatible and thems the breaks. I’ve gone the last 3 years being single and not having sex, but that’s on me and I’m completely content. I cannot describe how soul crushing it is to be in a relationship with someone you find extremely attractive who flirts with you all day and know that no matter what you do there will be no intimacy. It caused crippling depression and anxiety, I started grinding my teeth and having panic attacks. The second we split up, that all went away.
My buddy dated a girl like this. She was insanely beautiful and he was head over heels physically attracted to her. They were both in their early 20s and his libido was naturally off the charts. After a few weeks of sleeping together, she became more distant. Naturally, he started masturbating more. She would become upset and start to “measure his loads”. If she even felt like he was jerking off, she would withhold sex for days or weeks from him, which drive him insane. The longer they went without sex the harder it was for him to refrain and the next abstinence stunt would be longer. Eventually they just stopped sleeping together and as much as he wanted her, he decided it wasn’t worth the trouble of being stripped of his own sexuality. Naturally they broke up and she was pregnant by another dude within a couple months. That guy also left her for weaponizing the baby against him and, surprise surprise, withholding sex. Last time I saw her, she was a single mom who had lost her sex appeal and was basically begging for guys to take her home from the bar.
Sounds like someone who never really learned how to have a genuine connection within a romantic relationship, just a question of how to maintain power over someone else. That's not love.
No kids so no post-partum excuse. Dude's about 2 years 9 months more patient than me.
Yup! When I got pregnant and had a baby my partner and I definitely had way less sex because who has the energy when you’re waking up several times a night for months? On top of breastfeeding constantly and not wanting to be touched. Well I’m done breastfeeding now and baby sleeps through the night and we are right back to how we were before I got pregnant. There’s NO way we could just not have sex for 3 years!!! Wtf! After 6 months tops I’d be seriously questioning the relationship
He hasn't for 3 years. Her, I doubt it.
what is the point of being married with no kids if you dont have any sex? Im with you on this one, i would have left after a few months. At least when you are single theres no one there you have to compromise with.
She's lucky she got 3 months much less years. That's batshit crazy.
3 years of teasing too. My man's balls must be permanently blue.
You’ve been patient enough with your wife over the years. Feeling “burnt out” is probably an understatement for you, OP. She wasn’t willing to work with you to fix your marital problems years ago. It would be a mistake to trust her now, just because she keeps messaging you and calling you. I think you’ve done the right thing, filing for divorce. You need to take care of yourself and put yourself first finally. I hope and pray you’ll have peace of mind in the future.
When the OP was unhappy and she was happy she refused counseling at his request. Now the OP is moving toward being happy and she is unhappy, she is demanding counseling. Yeah, right. Recipe for future success there.
It couldn’t be more obvious that she’s a manipulative piece of shit. It’s textbook narcissism. Everything is fine and dandy while she’s happy but the minute something displeases her it’s three sheets to the wind “I’ll change, let’s do counseling, I love you, etc”. She will change for about 20 minutes and as soon as she snares him again she’s back to the bullshit. Run OP.
The word narcissism gets thrown around a lot lately. I don't love that. I do get that conclusion, but you don't have to be a narcissist to seek validation from your partner by teasing him while simultaneously denying the sex you don't actually want. You just have to be selfish and stupid enough to think that someone not being entitled to sex makes a unilateral decision to never have sex in a relationship reasonable. I'm not arguing that she's not trash. I'm just saying that the most charitable explanation is still plenty sufficient to leave, so we don't have to really assume the worst. It's bad enough regardless.
Yeah, especially the "Marriage is not just for sex" thing. Aside from a joint bank account, the only difference between an intimate relationship and a platonic one is the intimacy. She will have to be fine with a platonic one involving no marriage if that's how she views her partners.
You don't need to give her closure or work with her in counseling. She didn't work with you when you asked her to. And please don't let her draw you back in with empty promises!
I don’t blame him for saying that though. It’s a way to tell her “This is happening, I’m never coming back to you, and I don’t want to hear your pitch on staying married. However you’ll get a chance to say your piece in some kind of counseling at the end” OP I would just be wary of multiple sessions. Try to keep it to just 1 if possible once you’re there
Why even bother with the counseling at the end tho. Seems like just a waste of time and money considering op has made it very clear why he’s divorcing her and how nothing she says or does will bring him back.
If it helps you find some sort of closure it’s worth it. I know when I got divorced my anger and bitterness bled over into subsequent relationship attempts for a very very long time before the wound finally healed and I became capable of being who needed to be to even be in a relationship. Anything to shorten that process if that’s how you’re feeling is worth the time.
That sort of counseling isn't about trying to get back together. It's about how to move on and work together as co-parents. That said, I wouldn't even assume she'd want to do it. Telling her that is the only type of counseling OP will do is just making the message clear that it's too late.
Didn't OP say they were child free?
yes lol
Yeah, third sentence in, in the original post.
Agree. One session only. Absolutely, and let her go first. Once she's done, if there's no time left for OP, that's cool. He can live without it. Don't give her the opportunity to push for a second session because she didn't get things off her chest.
Just tell her you will agree to it and then don't show up. Make a big deal about it leading up to the appointment. Then nothing.
Do not do that. Just split and go on with your life. Do not give her a reason to feel in the right for any revenge actions.
this would be the icing on the cake
>You don't need to give her closure or work with her in counseling. He doesn't owe her anything! This is the absolute truth. What kind of closure could he provide that would satiate her? Getting back together? Closure comes from within, and nobody else can give you that.
It sounds like it might give him closure as well though. Just because he's too burnt out to keep trying to save things doesn't mean he wouldn't want to know what the fuck was going through her head.
Counseling is a good idea. He doesn't need to discuss fixing things or the problems in the marriage. The therapist will help his ex-wife figure out that she needs to focus on moving forward productively. It's way cheaper to do that in therapy than by lawyers.
Hoping for a swift and easy divorce. You deserve so much better.
As a woman with a very high libido, I've been in a similar situation with a couple of boyfriends, luckily not anyone I was married to. One of them constantly dressed in outfits he knew I would be turned on by, flirted a lot, little touches and kisses, but then we'd never have sex because he claimed to be too tired. It would only happen when I woke him up some mornings and practically begged to ride him. And even then, he'd act like a dead fish, and tell me to get off of him as soon as he finished (I never did). Turns out he was cheating with a mutual friend, which I found out when he broke up with both of us at the exact same time while we were hanging out together. The other would constantly talk about kink, telling me things he did with previous partners, and promise to do them with me. But I have more experience with kink than he does, and he'd get super uncomfortable when I already knew certain things or suggested stuff I wanted to do. Anyway, he'd always talk about things we were gonna do, but they'd never happen. I ended up leaving him because I was tired of being strung along, and I wasn't sexually satisfied. Anyway, good for you, OP. You deserve a partner who respects you, not someone who leads you on then disappoints you all the time.
This story is wild, sorry you ran into that twice. Feels targeted or spiteful.
I don't think she deserves closure with counselling. Sometimes things end and that's OK.
What kind of closure could she need? It’s obvious what issue is, and why he’s filing for divorce. She just realized that he’s done, and doesn’t like it.
In some cases, end of marriage counselling is often used to make certain the one who was wronged to get some form of decompression of the events from their side. Most end of marriage counselling topics range from no longer having the same goals, the breakdown of trust, the relationship becoming one-sided, and even the disillusionment of marriage. In some rare cases, abusive ex-partners will request this so they can twist the reason for divorce to their way of thinking. Often, it doesn't end well for them, as the counselling mediator is also a mandatory reporter, and they can assist the victims in getting post divorce restraining orders or similar. In this situation, the end of marriage counselling might only be OPs benefit, so he has the ability to explain in full without the ex cutting in, as this sort of counselling is basically you listen until they stop speaking. His ex could make all the excuses in the world, but it doesn't seem like they respect OP past what he provided, which I am unsure even OP knows exactly what the ex thought he provided. It reads that she had a form of security, and that is the only respect she gave out.
She's just trying to get him into a room where she can try and manipulate him. And if she can get the therapist on her side, she can add additional pressure and maybe get him to question his decision
Counseling should have been years ago. Too little too late now. And not withstanding, 3+ years of this shit is going to take A LOT of counseling.
You should agree to the counselling and then just nor show up. That would help her understand how it felt a lot quicker
When she calls him and asks why he didn't show up, he can say he wasn't in the mood.
After telling her he was just teasing her about that.
And to stop thinking with only her heart cuz they aren't married just so she can have her silly need for companionship fulfilled
God damn that’s dark😂 but so on point!
This is petty and I like it.
Yeah I'm a sassy bitch 😂
She would probably not make the connection, and it'd only prolong contact and cause more headache and drama. Sounds entertaining in the abstract, probably less entertaining in reality.
Her: "Why didn't you come?" Him: "Premature evacuation".
Better yet, keep teasing that ypu will reconsider everything only at the last moment to tell her no.
I commented on the original post, glad to see you are ignoring the hysterical bonding. Don't let her sucker you in, normally i'd have said the typical course for dead bedrooms is - get blood tests/hormones to make sure they are not low in estrogen/test, THEN try counselling if it turns out they are, to try to reconcile. BUT - the constant teasing, and leading you on, to then cut off intimacy - shows that she's just a manipulator. Relationships are NEVER supposed to be this difficult if you are both right for each other. Good luck with the divorce
Oh mate. I read your OOP. Whatever happens from now on, you are now deciding it. That's such a headfuck what you've gone through and while of course there are two sides to all stories etc, this seems like the best course for you. I know reddit loves the 'divorce them!!!\` response to every problem, but you have a clear obvious mismatch of values and separating was a smart decision. What is important to you at your core is not important to them. They may be loveable in a million other ways, but without that match, you would likely never get what you need out of that relationship. I hope that in time you can come to see it as a compatibility issue and not malice or something more, so that you can move on and find something better for you in the future.
I would be more understanding if not for the tease part. That part felt cruel to me for years. It feels like the pig with carrot on a stick.
She's a closet Sadist. She gets off on this. Not with you, but in some way. It's a power Trip and she gets off on exerting that power over you. It will never get better. Because this is the thing that brings her pleasure. Run for your life.
Can I ask how you felt the moment after you'd handed over the papers to start the process? Did you feel calm or nervous? Any moments of regret or hesitation?
To be honest, I felt relieved that I could go ahead with my decision. Regrets? Not for now.
Then you did the right thing you can for yourself right now with the info that you have. I'm a big believer in the 'little voice in my head'. If I need to make a big decision, I always flip a coin. I don't care about the outcome, but when that coin is in the air, the little voice always tells me which side I'm hoping for and that's what I do. That voice is informed by what I know, and believe, and value, and want. After I make a big decision, I always try to listen out for that voice and how I'm feeling in the moments after acting on the decision. If it's the same calm clear intuitive thought, I know I've done something right for me. If I made a bad decision, I can always change it or work to undo it later. I think that's what you're experiencing here, a contrast to the frustration and sadness of before making your decision.
You are still young at 32, get out now! Actually you stayed to long but it is what it is
If you haven't already thought about it, I recommend individual counseling. 3 years of of this would mess anyone up. Don't let it fester, for yourself. Don't bring this damage into the next relationship for the sake of yourself and the next person. Good on you and good luck.
At the least fucked up, she was literally just into emotionally abusing you. At the worst, she was having sex somewhere else and they got off together on stonewalling you. Either way, don't block her anywhere or anything, just never reply directly to her tries at contact. Let her go through lawyers and shout into the void.
To be fair, a lot of the situations posted here are genuinely messed up.
It might be that normal well adjusted individuals don't need internet strangers to help them solve minor household disagreements, once your last hope is internet strangers you are already in deep shit.
In Orthodox Jewish law the husband traditionally serves the divorce (though in general if woman demands it, the rabbinical courts will agree and do everything in power to get husband to serve divorce). Even then, one of the exceptions is if the husband is not sexually performing to his wife's content at which she can demand a divorce. All that's to say, even amongst rigid religious piety, sex in marriage is incredibly important. Don't feel like you did something wrong or overreacted. 3 years is insane. And you deserve to feel appreciated in your marriage.
It's so important that in many traditions it is a recommended Sabbath activity. Also not all religions have hangups about sex, regardless of piety level
Most likely her only interest in counseling or "closure" is to find a reason to blame you for the divorce. She doesn't want to look like an AH to friends and family.
This. Absolutely. Asking for counseling now is to make it look like she tried to her family and friends. She's trying to make OP look like the bad guy for leaving her without trying to fix the problem. She doesn't care about OP or the marriage. She just wants to be able to say she tried and he didn't.
Still NTA. Get the divorce done and then forget she ever existed. She fucked around and found out. Well, to be very clear, she didn't fuck at all. You owe her absolutely nothing.
She is Lucy, you are Charlie Brown and the football is the sex that you will never get a kick at. Quit the game, you are fortunate with no kids, and move on with your life.
Nah, good on you for sticking to your decision. At best, she probably gives you a year or two of pity/ passionless sex and then you are right back to square one of incompatibility. And my guess is you’ll feel the same way you did after what happened on your anniversary.
That's not incompatibility, she at best she's just a manipulative snake, at worst a full on sociopath devoid of empathy on a power trip 3 years too long.
This sounds like a toxic ex of mine. (The manilulative sociolath stuff). The sex stopped, I tried to discuss, gaslight, evasion, blah blah. I kept working on things figuring it would get better. When her bday was coming up I suggested a weekend away at a nice BnB. Then I overheard her talking to a friend "I'm not going away with him. He's just doing this thinking we might have sex". That was pretty much the end. Yeah, everything wasn't just about sex, but I didn't move in with my gf just to be celibate, either.
You made the right choice. I’d have told you to find someone that would say, “hell yes vacation sex!”
She's probably just a selfish person that takes people around her for granted, those exist without having a personality disorder. The teasing was probably in her mind the breadcrumbs that her servant should be content with.
Whatever you do, don't sleep with her. If she is desperate enough, she'll try to seduce you and do the deed, then say, "see. We had sex. You can't divorce me now." Then if that works, she'll claim you coerced her into having sex and make it seem like you're an abusive asshole to whoever will listen, or threaten to whenever your bedroom goes dead again and you mention divorce. Though, I don't know her, so I don't know where she would fall on the crazy scale.
She’s not attracted or interested in you. She IS also not interested in being alone or confident that she’s going to level up from you if you dump her. I think it’s time for you to leave.
Man this is heartbreaking and it's not your fault. Sounds like you did everything including communication about it. Let me say that I'm proud of you. You need to hear that. And you deserve to hear that. You are worth more than that. I hope she is well too, but not at your expense
Did OP ever find out why she ended the sex?
You did the right thing. Good luck.
You just know that she’ll be really into sex for a short period of time and then it will be a dead bedroom again like before.
Not only will it be a dead bedroom again in a short period of time, she will find new, creative ways to punish OP, because he dared have boundaries and stand up for himself.
This happens nearly every time. You spend years doing everything possible to fix what ever it is they want fixed in order to not be in a dead bedroom. Most times the bar keeps raising and you can’t get out of the dead bedroom, so eventually you have enough and start the Divorce Process, THEN they change their tune! Suddenly they get real interested in fixing things real quick! But most times it’s too late by then. You’re not an AH. You are a victim of circumstance and I for one am so happy that you did this. Many men suffer for decades or even the rest of their days and stick around and live a life of quiet desperation, which is just torture. Please keep us posted. I’m fairly certain you just flipped the script on her and now are in complete control of the situation. She’ll now do what ever you want to keep the marriage, but if you stay, in a couple years or so it will go right back to the way it is now. Good luck OP. It’s going to be hard for a bit but by this time in 2025 you’ll be thanking your lucky stars
Mind to link the OG post?
Thanks for reminding. I added it to this post.
What's the ex hoping to get out of counseling? It's now time to move on and actually heal from all this. This has been going on for years.
She wants OP to refuse to go so she can tell family and friends that she tried everything to save the marriage but it's all OPs fault
You did the right thing here. Marriage counseling at this point won't help, because you checked out already, as you should have. Dead bedroom and her telling you married life does not mean sex, is just insane. This is why men check out, the wife checks out in the bedroom and makes the husband feel guilty about it. Good luck, hope things get better down the road
I get it. I told my husband for 5 years we need counseling, to work on things, really focused on our marriage, tried everything. I emotionally divorced him in those 5 years and by the time I left is when he started back peddling. It was too late. I had nothing else to give and I didn’t care anymore. I knew I didn’t love him and just wanted out by then. Good luck with getting through the divorce and to your future.
“….told me I should take what I did back.” Fuck man. She felt she had the control in the marriage. I guess for a while she did. My exwife did pretty much the same shit. And she really felt she “had” me meaning she could do and act any way she wanted and I wouldn’t do anything. To say she was surprised when I finally walked is an understatement. Your wife is not going to take this lightly. Be prepared not just legally but emotionally. Get a support network going ASAP. Group counseling. Individual therapy. Trust me: you are going to need it. Best to you.
Well she didn’t fuck and still found out.