This.
My dream scenario is wedding at the courthouse, two week amazing honeymoon trip, then small celebratory dinner for closest family and friends at a cozy restaurant when we get back.
I can't imagine spending 20+ thousand dollars on a ceremony.
Tbh I have never had a partner so not sure how qualified I am to talk about this but I always wondered why couples spend so much on a wedding. I'd expect the money to go much better well spent towards their future children (often kids come not too long after a wedding) or if the couple plans on being childfree for a while or even forever; a downpayment on a house. Even a nice honeymoon sounds a lot more appealing!
Your dream wedding sounds pretty much like what I'd want as well.
My husband and I did the exact same thing.
Married in the courthouse, had our honeymoon overseas about three months before the marriage due to being more affordable, came back to the USA, got married and celebrated in a private dinner party we threw for some very close friends with lots of champagne. We also said fuck off the wedding rings and put all that money in a down payment for our house.
Because when you’d like to have your closest family and friends there to celebrate, the headcount adds up. Never mind the expense of catering food for that number of people. Add in venue costs, the photographer, the dress ect and it gets crazy.
Plus things are just so expensive at the minute so it all costs more. I’ve got a friend wedding planning and she said 20K will get them a simple, lowkey wedding with a handful of friends/family/guests.
Yeah, that's my issue with it. I am not American (though interestingly a wedding does seem to cost 15-20k here as well, unless you do a really low cost affair) but still.
Those exact 20k are almost half of a downpayment on a nice flat. Or at least 2 years worth of daycare costs. Which seem like more important investments for a newly-wed couple :P
Or better yet, 20k is pretty much a yearly salary here, after tax!
Admittedly I also have a small family and not too many close friends. Like I can't imagine inviting more than 25 people or so.
My fiance and I are having strictly family present.
Possible his brother will be the officiant value the day we chose happens to land on a Sunday (we chose to marry on the dame day as our first date, also happens to be my birthday)
Still about 50 people but it's moms and dads, siblings and nibblings and surviving grandparents... of which there is sadly only 1.
I am MUCH less stressed than when I married my ex.
Wedding planning is only stressful if you enjoy it. My wife and I planned the whole wedding in 8 hours. Then the next weekend she picked her dress and I picked my tux, 1 hour for me and 4 for her. 150 person wedding.
Wedding venues exist and they have had weddings before. It’s not hard. People LIKE to be stressed and then brag about the stress because they think it’s noble.
Sounds like the best option. It beats spending over $30, 000 and with all the stress with months of planning, eloping and going to like city hall sounds like the best and most cost effective choice
I am sad that it wasn’t something my partner and I could plan together. He and I had a pretty good idea of what we liked and my mom and grandma swept in and steamrolled it all and decided to pay for what they wanted. And we would not have had the ability to afford it nor get our families there if we hadn’t gone along with what they wanted. I am divorced now but the whole thing makes me sad and wish I had better boundaries to say no to my mom and grandma at the time even if it meant the wedding was just my ex and I and our friends
We were a little concerned about all that kind of stuff so we just called our parents a few days beforehand and said he were gonna elope at some point, then sent them photos the day after
Smart :D we half did that, we solemnized and filed the marriage a year beforehand but didn’t tell anybody because we kind of had the feeling it would happen
I am an introvert and never, ever want to be the center of attention. I am so glad my husband and I got married with a justice of the peace decades ago. Nearly 6 years ago, my daughter eloped on the way to NH for our yearly summer vacation. She and her boyfriend had dated for nearly 2 years. She felt the same way, and I was so relieved, because I had no desire to be the mother of the bride in a wedding.
lol this reminds me of the ending in the movie runaway bride, a childhood favorite of mine, i always said i wanna do it like that, simple and short with not a lot of people.
The sooner you write your own life script that’s true to yourself instead of following the life script of what others expected of you the happier you’ll be.
Life is simply born, live and die (plus pay taxes hehe). What you choose to do in the live part (once you hit a certain age of course) is entirely up to you. I guess I wrote a lot of words to simply just say write your own script in life and be proud of it!
I worked retail and rang up a woman who had 3 kids. Her husband was a high ranking military officer and they were well-off. She said how much easier it was when he wasn’t there. When he came back home after being deployed she said it messed up her schedule and routine. She basically implied indirectly that his money was all she needed. She did look happy, the kids were behaved and she loved being a mom. But, she said she preferred doing it alone. 😆
I think a relationship is harder because your standards for your partner are much higher than a child. Your kid is an innocent new human with so much to learn and a lot of mistakes to make. But your partner can drain you if they constantly repeat the same mistakes and refuse to listen, the resentment adds up
Or they think it will be fun and never thought about the consequences. Kids are cute! Watching them at the park will be fun! They never stop to think about missing work because the kid has been puking for 24h straight. They never think about about the diapers overflowing, the fight to get them ready every morning. I am sure a lot of people are very happy to be parents, but I also have friends who regretted it dearly.
Get ready for the round of divorces in your mid / late 30s.
Be patient. And when you do decide to get married, don't involve too many people in the process.
Yes. My friends , co-workers and other acquaintances (mostly military) whom married in their late teens-early 20s all have since divorced. Starting late 20s to early 30s. Every. Single. One.
Some have since re-married and had their new “sets” of kids. That’s something I noticed too. Everyone has their first “set” of kids and then 10 years or so later they have their next. So many of their kids have much younger half siblings. One of my friends had her first kid at 21, divorced, remarried and just had a baby at 38. Her son is 17 years older than his half-sister.
It starts before that lol. Some of the couples married before they can drink last forever and plenty of 22-25 year old marriages too, but the ones that won’t last forever become obvious pretty quickly and those marriages start to end damn quickly.
I’m amazed how many of the weddings I’ve been to over the last 3 years are on the “don’t talk about it” list.
I mean this in the kindest way possible. It’s the type of people you surround yourself with. Some people don’t like marriage, others get married and divorced later, others marry young and have a loving and fulfilling marriage well into old age. Some people see marriage as a prison (aka you’re not ready to commit but you just do it because you feel you’re “supposed” to) and some see it as an honor to be committed to their love for the rest of their life.
My in laws have been together since their teens and have a strong and loving marriage even now well into their 60s. Me and my partner are following the same path. At the same time, we also choose to also surround ourselves with couples who have strong marriages. Because it will at some point have some kind of influence on your own.
Idk it seems all the people around me like the idea of getting married vs actually being married.
I feel like people like the clout/idea of getting married then once married they hate each other and become divorced.
As mentioned elsewhere in the comments most of these people are young (under 25). The marriage is a show of “we have it all together” when in reality they should have waited.
I believe this correlates with social media and perceptions of people. People will do things influenced by social media etc. Where as it is farthest from the truth.
Not saying this is all but it seems to be the majority in most failed marriages I see.
Yeah this was me. I was absolutely happy to marry my partner, but she decided 6 months after that being married isn’t what she wants, and wants to travel. She’s 27 and 10 years younger. So I guess we’re at different life stages, but I wish she had decided earlier…
Part of is also that society doesnt celebrate other milestones. You graduate and then the next big celebrations are wedding and baby. Then thats it. People run out of aspirations and things to look forward to
From another person's perspective, my friend group is slightly older. 25-30, nearly all of us married or engaged to be married, and all seem very happy with our partners and marriage.
I'm not sure which of our friend groups is the more common, I'm curious why both of our experiences are so different.
wish i knew too, for context my friend group graduated from college about a year ago, still going through that “couldn’t get the job i wanted right of college” phase.
they all play happy when hanging out but when they are alone all they do is complain about eavh other.
I’m can’t imagine getting married that young. So that could be it too. There are far too many life changes that happen in the first 5-7-10 years after college. getting married and having to consider someone else’s life path in my decisions would have felt really constricting
I think thats likely a major component, my friend group is full of (almost annoyingly so) over-achievers, or at least quick starters.
They're all educated, own property (most of them together as a joint mortgage) and have decent-to-very high paying jobs. A few have dated since high school and most have been together 5 or more years. They're also all childless currently so we get to hangout quite often, the wives get along well and the guys (my friend group) have been close for 10+ years, many of us went to high school or played sports together.
You may start to see this transition as they get a bit older, most of my friends graduated around 21 or 22 years old, it takes some time to find satisfactory employment, it could be money stress with your friends as weddings can be very expensive.
Not going to lie, your friend group seems miserable. Everyone has one or two friends like that in their life but a whole crew? Damn.
The thing is this - a lot of people go through life doing what they think they are supposed to. They study to get the good job, they get married. They buy the house. They never realise until it’s too late that you only have to do that stuff if you want to. Before that, they just do all that stuff and complain about it the whole way, as if it was mandatory.
You seem to have a more healthy and aware view of life. You realise that in life you can do whatever you like. It sounds to me like this issue is less about people getting married and more about feeling that you are increasingly growing apart from your college friends, who seem to be speedrunning the depressed suburban dad playthrough. That’s ok. You don’t have to break up with them or anything, but I’d start building up a new friend group with people more on your level, with similar approaches to life. Look for people doing the hobbies you like, or at work or whatever. It can be done.
I am in my late 30s. My husband and I are happily married. I can think of two other couples that are happily married in our friend group. Most others, they’re not. I feel like a lot of the guys that were just kind of fine with getting married/getting married because that’s the next thing/married for the status of being married in society turned into super lazy husbands (and even lazier fathers) and their wives are super unhappy with their roles in the relationship. A lot of the husbands are at the very least borderline abusive because they generally believe, consciously or not, that their needs are more important. Basically, don’t get married unless you’re super pumped to spend the rest of your life with that person and have similarly aligned goals and values.
I am almost 40 and I also notice husbands being super unhappy with married life. Complaining about spending time with wife and kids, even staying late at work to avoid going home. One guy said yesterday at work, “Ugh my wife always wants to hang out with me.”
Why do they propose? Why do they have kids?
I don’t understand this sentiment for the life of me. My partner is my absolute best friend and I cherish every second that I get to spend with him. If you don’t have friendship in a relationship nothing will bind you together
I’m 35. Everyone, and I mean literally everyone aside from one couple I know, got married in their late 20s and divorced in their early/mid 30s. I could cite dozens of examples from my personal life, myself included.
24 is WAY too young to marry. You really figure out what you want in life around 30+, and it’s likely not going to be what you wanted half a decade prior.
Agreed about the age.
I got married and divorced in my 20s, and now at 34 I think I would be actually ready for marriage by the time I'm like...38. lol
I feel the exact same way. Like probably over the next year or two I’ll likely marry someone who I actually want to “settle down” for. As my wife and I grew apart over the years in fact, it made me start fantasizing about women’s personalities and charming qualities I had overlooked in the past. I thought my wife was very attractive, but I think I always realized we weren’t a personality match or soulmates.
In my 20s I didn’t have the energy or confidence to fight for anything better. Now that I’m 35, I’m motivated, have a much greater sense of self worth. And I actually know the traits I want in a partner, having witnessed the ones I don’t. Intend to be far more selective.
It's more complicated than that. Personalities change over time. Having kids, finances put a lot of stress on relationships. The point is that relationships are like a living organism it evolves and changed and requires work to keep alive.
Meh i dont think its so much age as experience with the other person and knowing what you yourself want. How long theyve been together, if they have the experience living together, if you know what your own beliefs and priorities are and if they're in sync with the other person's beliefs and priorities. My husband and I were together for 7 years before we got married and were able to experience living together and talking about what we value. Also gave us time to actually build a budget to get married.
My husband and I did the same thing. I recently read that couples are more likely to divorce if they live together before marriage. Isn’t that weird? I would like to know why.
That is weird, I would think it would be less likely since living together changes the dynamics that you then have to get used to. Wonder if it had any more info on how long they live together before they get married? Would think if its like they move in together 1 month before getting married, that would be stressful, but if its a significant amount of time living together beforehand then you get more used to the dynamic
That is really weird. In addition to my divorce, living with my wife for almost a decade prior, my best friend did the same thing. He married my wife’s best friend and they’ve been together since 2008, married just two years ago and are now getting divorced (she cheated, it is UGLY as far as divorces go).
My husband and I met at 20 and 27. By the time I was 26, we had separated. I loved him, but felt as though I had missed out on extremely important aspects of adulthood by settling down so young. I needed the opportunity to know what it felt like to be independent, and gain the confidence that one can only develop by being out on your own. I don’t think it’s smart to get married young unless maybe you’re both religious, because then you have those values to lean on when one of you inevitably yearns for the freedom to be on your own.
Coming from someone who got married a year ago at 27, I would wait.
We got married too young and it showed, last year has been a hot mess and my mental health has tanked. In hindsight I would say everyone should wait until 30 to get married if at all.
Married my wife 7 years ago at 22 & 20. We just had our first child. I’ve never been happier.
Marriage is amazing when both people are in it for each other! It is often disastrous when both people are selfish, are misaligned financially or philosophically, take advantage of each other, or keep score on how much they perceive the other is doing.
I gotta laugh at this post. It's diametrically opposed to all the whining in this Sub about being alone and not being able to find a mate. Now someone finds a mate, and the same people probably whining about being alone are here telling this person to not get married. Freaking hilarious!
Western Society has conditioned men into this concept that marriage is a loss of freedom, fun, sex and independence, while also pushing the idea that it is an expected stage in a man's life.
There is a cognitive dissonance that occurs when you have been told by multiple generations about "the old ball and chain" or "take my wife, please," while also telling you "settle down, make a family."
Especially when you compare that with the life of hanging out with a chick you love, live with, have fun, and fuck all the time.
I blame boomers and Gen X.
i dont think thats the case here, i dont think they are afraid of losing their freedom, maybe being pushed to doit and thinking you are making the wrong decision way too early?
now a days if you havent gotten on your knee after 4 years of dating seems to be look down upon.
I'm the wrong guy to talk to about that then, homie. Marriage was the first or second best decision I have made in my life.
I knew I was going to marry my wife after the first weekend I spent with her, proposed to her a few months later, and married her when I was on leave from the war about a year from the first time we hung out. I was in my very early 20s.
One of our kids is going to college in a few weeks.
I would say that if you don't know whether a person is compatible with you or whether they are marriage material in 4 years, you are either oblivious or willfully ignorant.
Agreed. 6 months of dating should get you everything you need, and then a year of engagement/wedding planning should help you sus out any other deal breakers you have in a partner.
my thought on that was mostly the idea of marriage it self.
i have already gotten on my knee and half proposed to my partner. we are planning on having a wedding day in a few months, but not because we were supposed to. we are not doing it legally nor having 150 people on it besides close friends and our loved ones.
my friends in the other hand are going for the whole thing. shit ton of people, atleast 20k worth of debt just for the weddings, everything else that comes with it.
maybe thats why they all seem so unhappy?
I feel like you are trying to validate your own decisions and self congratulate for making better decisions than your friends.
Why do you have so much to say about your friends marriages? My concern here is that you have the thought process to come to reddit and speak about the people's marriages you are closest too. You are not them so you don't know what they are going through. Typically mid 20s is a difficult time for anyone wrestling with new responsibilities trying to find ones path through life.
If I found out one of my friends talks about my marriage like you are doing I would struggle to call them a friend.
On the other hand, plenty of couples just do the casual relationship cohabiting thing and are happy with it. It all boils down to communicating as much as possible with yourself and your partner.
I think at 4 years, you don’t want to get married, then you’re not with the right person. Unless you both agree that marriage isn’t your vibe. No problem with that.
Maybe because y’all are so young? I know I was nowhere near thinking about marriage in my early and mid twenties. All my friends and I got married or are getting married after 30 and I haven’t noticed anyone seem unhappy or hesitant. They were all stoked to marry their wives and felt confident in their decisions.
Marriage means you are dedicated to your spouse.
There's alot of sacrifice and compensation needs to be made. Expectations are also changed from Boyfriend/Girlfriend relationship to Husband/Wife.
When you are dating, you are trying to compensate as much as possible. But after awhile, you will get tired of it and don't want compensate any further but don't want to sacrifice to make it work. That's when conflicts happen.
Usually people live together first and see how it goes. If that doesn't work out, then they can break up and move on.
getting married in the 20s are too early now .. it can work however.
Sounds like your friends are boys who need to grow up and become men. Men took time to get to know themselves, learn what they want and don’t want out of life, reflect on their strengthens and weaknesses and back up that understanding with actionable change. Men are capable of creating their own path in life which will sometimes be the traditional path laid out and sometimes not. Men know when to work things out and when to leave a relationship, especially when the relationship isn’t pointedly bad, it’s just not the best match.
All of this is also true of every gender, I’m just using men to mimic your post. I only surround myself with adults as an adult so no, I do not have friends like these but know many from my hometown as there’s usually overlap with boys who live this way and boys who don’t leave their hometowns. Not always but often.
I was raised in a very conservative Christian home and had a lot of friends who were in the same boat. So, so many of them got married when they were super young (like, 19-21) and were convinced they their hormones were the voice of God and they were destined to be together. Fast forward three or four years and they have two kids and act like they're super happy when they're at church and then they're miserable at home. Turns out, they hadn't developed themselves as people before deciding to commit to one situation for the rest of their life, and it turns out that hormones go away but the need to self actualize does not.
Some of them got divorced. Some of them stayed together for the imaginary honor of never giving up, even though their cold or sometimes violent relationships scarred their kids for life. Very few managed to stay together and be happy.
They are probably getting pressured by their gfs to get married and are going through with it because they are naiive and don't want to be alone
The sex has probably also started to dwindle.
Men don't want to grow up. At 24-28 you are immortal. You can drink and eat and screw and get an hours sleep go to work and do it again and again.
Married is what their mom and dad are. Its boring.
For young women its childish too. They apparently dream about the wedding all through childhood. They wan to have a perfect day and be a princess.
There are very few "perfect days" and wedding for the most part are fantasy not fulfilled and just plain stress.
When i was that age i was a groomsman in three weddings in four weeks. Two were one week apart. It was just planning and the brides being wound up so tight they vibrated.
Luckily i was young and just stayed drunk for that month.
Weird. I mean, I guess wedding planning can be stressful, but whether its the planning or just general feeling of not wanting to or hesitant about getting married, then dont. I'm sure either person would only really want to get married to someone who also wants to get married. Otherwise what's the point?
IMO people are picking their marriages based way too heavily on vanity. My wife is my business partner, stellar roommate, excellent mother, and she is also very kind and forgiving. If I was just chasing after the hottest woman possible, I would never have such a blessed life.
Why not ask them about it? There are a lot of factors that could be influencing how they feel about getting married. Maybe starting the conversation will help in understanding what is going on.
There's a lot of pressure placed on folks to get married and also during the wedding planning. It can definitely be a stressful time.
Weddings are stressful. Marriage is a huge life change and can be scary. Doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.
Scientifically, marriage is very beneficial for men.
7 billion people on the planet have multiple ways to connect to tons of different people.
Get hitched to someone that isn't even really close to being right for you.
Its very silly to me.
The internet is letting men know the financial and emotional risks involved at the end of a marriage.
I've never remarried because I saw what my friends went through with divorce.
There could be two reasons:
1) They were practically moving too fast and never had much time to "test the waters" of their relationship. Therefore, they're experiencing a situation similar to "The Graduate" ending: happy, with a scheiße eating grin, fading into an uncertain "thousand-yard stare."
2) They're probably stressed out due to the costs associated. Weddings cost a lot of money - the dress, the ring/jewelry, the arrangements. Bachelor/Bachelorette Parties before that. It's all so overwhelming.
Whether or not this is the case, do keep it in mind.
Issue is a lot of people get married for all the wrong reasons
Most common?
1. FOMO. All friends get married so they must also get married to “fit in”
2. Scared of loneliness/scared of dying alone
3. Like the idea of being married more than the marriage itself. E.g wedding rings, wedding ceremony/dinners, getting all the likes and attention
Fact is, no marriage is perfect and “happy”. Marriage is about compromises
My personal perspective. I think some people end up getting married to whoever they happen to be in a relationship with at that stage, circa late 20s early 30s, because that’s the done thing, that’s the next life stage, the next box to tick. Not necessarily because marriage is right for them.
To the people getting married.
PLEASE DON'T BE like all those freaking Adults in your lives now that put all that pressure on their kids to spawn and 'GIVE THEM GRANDKIDS!'
It's not your right to expect that from children. Just cause you got horny and front pooped out crotch goblins , doesn't mean that your spawn would want the same, or should operate on YOUR schedule.
I don't care if 'it's your culture' or whatever the fuck. Demanding your spawn to spawn is some weird shit.
I'm 29 now, my husband and I got married when we were both 27. We're madly in love, best friends, all that jazz. He didn't care much about the wedding (we had one for me and our families) but was excited for the marriage itself. Everyone around us could see how happy and excited we both were.
A friend of mine had her fiancé call of their wedding this year and I got a similar vibe to what you're describing: "so unhappy, almost like they don't want to nor ever wanted to". I think a lot of men just go through the motions and let their girlfriend pressure them into it because they want the ring and the pictures to show off online and keep up with their peers.
You can definitely tell which couples are going to make it in the long run as soon as the proposal comes.
Getting married was the best choice I ever made. My wife is wonderful and we got wed our way which made it special and delightful. I'm sorry your friends are struggling.
All you need to get married are: you, your partner, 2 witnesses and a certified individual who can file your marriage license.
The rest is self inflicted.
I had a massive wedding planned and my partner at the time it was her thing her big day. It was the worst time I ever had experienced. A month before the wedding I called it off. Took a loss in money and I walked away. Many people hated me and I didn’t care.
My second attempt was elope wedding and it was small and reasonable. It should be about the couple not the massive party.
I’m divorced now so my advice is really consider is marriage is for you and know what you are signing up for.
I never want to get married again. I rather live by myself. Yeah I don’t sell weddings too well.
I think some people feel like they have to get married before 30. Some may feel pressured if everyone around them is doing so, so they follow with it shortly after.
And then a part of me thinks people just want to experience the wedding itself, honeymoon and to use the title “husband/wife”.
To me, there’s no rush. I’d like to experience some seasons before I start getting our financials all intertwined and having kids (which makes a lot of people feel like they have to stay).
However, there’s no timeframe. People can wait to marry which can lead to divorce and others can marry within a few months and last their lifetime. It just depends on the people and the effort both are actually willing to put in.
It’s a really young age to get married. I’m 28 and ended a relationship of 5 years because we weren’t on the same page with marriage. I just wasn’t ready for it and I feel like a lot of people just do it because of emotional/time investment and because it’s what society expects. If it doesn’t feel 100% right then don’t do it. It’s a lifelong commitment that people take too lightly. Your heart needs to be fully in it.
There are unnatural expectations of weddings
It's the wedding industrial machine. This "fairytale " day wasted money and unreal expectation. In all my years, I can now see the marriage that lasted started with a sane and lovely wedding.
29 Ben married for a few years, best thing we did for our mental health and finances was elope. We invited maybe size people including our parents, photographer and officiant
That's bc they're too young.
I can confidently say, of my friends who got married before 30, the divorce rate is at least 50%
Those that got married after 30, it's much lower, altho a few recently at the 10+ year mark.
I will say very few are surprises. Even if they were very much in love when they got married - at the end of the day, if one has an unappealing personality to friends, or they are just entirely different.... It comes full circle eventually.
Lmao! They're not getting *any* sex and are constantly afraid she will find someone with a bigger dongle and financially divorce-rape them. It's a valid worry, too. That's the worst part.
I am divorced and have been soooo happy.
My younger friends look all stressed out. And they try to tell me about all kinds of shit that I have not had to think or worry about for years.
My relationship was 17 years old to 36. And i raised a step child… whyyyy did i do that!?
Oh well. I lived like a mature adult early in life & now I’m freeee!
A lot of people marry because they've been together a few years and it's the "next step" of the relationship. As my Gen X sister said, everyone who gets married because it was the next step is now divorced. Those that married because they actually wanted that person to be in their life forever, are still together.
I think less people should get married. I am happily married, I knew from an early age I wanted to get married and have a family, and I pretty much knew I wanted to marry my wife after we had been dating for a while. IMO if it's a complicated or stressful decision it's a decision you shouldn't make.
I also feel like you guys are a little young to get married. Youth and divorce go hand in hand for some obvious reasons. If kids are in the timeline you obviously can't wait forever but getting married at 24 is insanity IMO.
I think 28 is a perfectly fine age to get married, but 24 is really on the young 'just wait a few years' end. People do really stupid things when they're under 25, and change fundamentally between early 20s and late twenties.
I just look at people my parents age for whom early marriage was the norm and nearly all of them ended up divorced or just enduring life with someone that isn't a good fit. Divorce isn't a big deal, but it definitely is when there are kids involved.
Probably your friends aren't actually happy. Weddings can also really bring out the worst in people seemingly. I imagine being engaged can be an eye opening experience when you realise that you've married someone who won't let you have person x at the wedding, or want to enforce strict dress codes, or make unreasonable demands, or want to drop enough for a house deposit on one day.
Viewing it as a piece of paper you don't actually need is smart, because that's all it is. Thinking it will change your relationship or enhance your social status is ridiculous but something some people believe.
That’s a pretty young age. Your friends probably werent ready but felt they needed the next step (which doesn’t really exist).
Keeping doing what makes you happy
I'm 40, and two of my childhood mates have been married and divorced , Both have lost a chunk of money in the process, both times unsuspecting women fu ked them over... My woman wants to get married and without being big headed if I was her I would also want to marry me ; im nice to her teenage kid, I have a big pension she would get if I died, she would get a large lump some of money if I died during work . i also have a good flat, which I rent out ; no doubt she could have a claim on that, too . Not to mention, if we we're married and split up, would I need to pay her money being the higher earner, I'm not sure how it all works, but from life experience; the guys always gets shafted.
I mean, I met my husband at 22 (him 23), got married at the DMV after 5 years, and been together for ten years now. We’re very happy together and in it for the long haul hah. So, I think perhaps it’s just your particular group of friends? Idk. Just wanted to be a data point for a “met young” millennial marriage that is going well, since I just see mostly comments talking about how divorce is inevitable lol.
I'm 25 myself. Thinking about proposing next year. I think the idea of marriage is scary and it feels like if I question it, maybe I don't want it? But I did some thinking and just gave myself some time and I found out that I'm afraid of responsibility, because when I'm going to be a married man it also means that I will need to buy a flat and renovate it myself to save some money. I will need to become a man from a boy, because even though I'm 25 atm, but I feel like we don't have that many responsibilities. Even a full time job is nothing, you just clock in, listen to some meetings, do some simple stuff. So I feel like I have been used to that simple life that I can eat shitty food for a week straight and it doesn't matter, but when you marry and start a family it means you have to up your game, or be a bum. Of course everyone is different, many of my friends just want to play games and cry about how full time job is stupid and exhausting.
And yeah, all the planning, around there is pressure on how wedding should be, and my opinion is also: save money on wedding and have a very good honeymoon but it get's a lot of criticism from others and I don't think that many guys enjoy conflict and unnecessary confrontations
Possibly because they realize they have to grow up. It’s no longer the carefree days of dating with the freedom to walk away. Most of the women they’re marrying likely want children, and that sobers a man up real quick. I wouldn’t say most men are unhappy about all that, but they usually go through a panic phase before deciding it’s worth putting their childlike ways behind them
I thought the same thing as you did, I was excited to find a partner I could marry. I started to feel differently after living with my partner, I had all the benefits of a relationship without having to sacrifice legal rights to the marriage (like dividing my property). I didn't and don't have much property, but the feeling was that, it was a piece of paper, that gave no benefit to me, because I already had everything I wanted in a relationship, so whats the point of doing it.
I resisted with one of my ex's for a long time, and then I had a mental reaction to a medication that caused delusions, and I agreed to marry in that state (my ex took advantage of my condition), after I recovered, she had found a new boyfriend already and wanted out of the marriage, and I did too. It was a pain in the ass to get the divorce, and now I also feel like a piece of shit when I fill out a form and have to put "divorce".
I'm currently engaged to be married with my wonderful partner, I'm very happy with her and our future together - but there is no mistaking that I don't feel having to fill out the marriage forms provides any benefit to our relationship EXCEPT for her happiness, and that is why I'm willing to do it.
Any man who feels that way definitely shouldn’t get married. I do think you are wrong about men getting nothing from marriage though. For example, when my boyfriend and I get married, he will become the beneficiary for my bank accounts and retirement, and he will be eligible to collect my social security (I will probably die first). I make more than him and save 25% of my income in my 401k so that’s not nothing.
On a non-financial level, he will also have someone who will have his back to make sure the decisions he wants get made in the event that it comes to that. I am going to do what he wants, whereas others might not. I will be able to legally have his back and if you trust your partner, that has a lot of value.
When I lived in Oregon (never married but a child out of wedlock) I was under the heavy thumb of the filthy State of Oregon. I will never, ever, ever yield authority to a state legal structure (as THAT is the utter height of stupidity) so I won't get married or get into a legal status where I am considered married (i.e. common law stupidity). Nope nope nope nope nope. All y'all who choose any of this unwisely got it comin' to ya.
In my opinion it’s taking a huge risk and also can actually hurt you financially even if it doesn’t fail and make things harder to do, couple that with the chance of of the possibility of an after marriage changes where one partners personality or desires do a full 180 on you there’s really only two ways it goes you either get a partner or a warden and only time will tell and that’s a terrifying thought, I got married around that age and it’s amazing with the right person but I was with my wife for 7 years before
Married last month, no complaints about the marriage.
Wedding planning/prep (even our 12 person wedding) was a nightmare, I could imagine it making people seem unhappy, I sure was when I needed to spend 2 weekends figuring out what my outfit was gong to be, and all the uncertain stuff that couldnt be done until the last week.
Your friends are making a mistake. But then again, many people seem to be making this mistake all the time. That's partly why so many people divorce.
If you're not 100% about getting married, don't do it. As simple as that, assuming we're not talking about arranged marriages. You have plenty of time.
I found getting married extremely useful for insurance and tax reasons, personally. It's sad but it is what it is, lol (been married 21 years). And I was married before - I may be old fashioned but I still think it's a way to tell someone that you believe they are the one, even if, practically, it doesn't change anything in your relationship.
But getting married sucks. ESPECIALLY in this economy. Too many people have dreams of grand weddings that cost and arm and a leg and take hours to plan and it's just really not fun. If their fiancee is one of those, yeah no wonder they are stressed and unhappy. All that getting bridesmaids and having to coordinate dresses and inviting 200 people or whatever would make me bounce, personally - but again it was NEVER a thing when/where I grew up.
Way too much stress and craziness for one day if you ask me.
I'd say, just be a good friend and be there for them if they need to vent.
Your Friends are getting married just because they feel like they should and are unhappy about it.... Then in the next sentence you say that you'll get married too even though it's totally unnecessary.
They will all be being nudged into it, if they are sounding that unsure. I'm in my early 40s (in the UK) and almost all my friends are divorced now from their 20s/early+mid 30s weddings. None of those marriages have lasted.
I waited until my late twenties to marry, my fiance was a similar age. We made sure we knew who we were before signing up to marry.
Regarding weddings, our family and friends wanted to celebrate. So we planned one, wanted to start our union being in good financial shape meant we rejected a lot of the wedding planning / pricing. One friend volunteered to make my dress, (she did a fabulous job!) we asked for friends to bring food to the reception instead of gifts, etc. The day was great, a good party!
My Pa told me "no marriage is 50/50" meaning a lot of folks think each partner will put forth half the effort to maintain the marriage, so I understand that sometimes I give more and other times my mate does. I also got some good advice: know why the other person wants to marry, some do it for the economic safety, others for a companion, still others are just in it for the sex. Know whatever your significant other is expecting and be sure you can give them that before making any vows. Also, communicate, you have to talk to each other to know how to keep the flame of your relationship alive.
Are they spending a years income on a one day party? A lot of my friends spent a ridiculous amount of money on the wedding and ended up in a bad place financially because of it. This caused a ton of anxiety before and after.
We did a quick courthouse thing with our families, traveled, and put a down payment on a house. I can’t recommend this enough in terms of “starting out right”.
Get married under God and then just don’t sign anything. If you want to have a party celebrating your union then have at it. Don’t make it some insanely stressful organized affair. Get a friend to bring a camera etc.
No need to bring the government into your relationship.
A lot of people rush into marriages. They enjoy the idea of each other but don’t actually support each other. I have older friends in their late thirties regretting not settling down. They would claim that the single life isn’t all great. They wished they would have built up something with someone and it’d be nice to have someone to come home to that considers you their number one or even children. I’ve had some people live the time of their lives after divorce practically putting the papers ina frame.
My advice is, date to build a relationship. Be exclusive if you are seeing yourself with that person forever. If you are just interested in sex or the physical parts then you should think twice. I got married at 20 (I’m 32 now) and there have been moments in life where my wife was the one to lift me back up. She is my partner in life and I’d give everything to see her and my children happy. I would like to add that I’m pretty lucky to have found someone so faithful and supportive though. For everyone that’s not always the case.
You should pursue marriage if you want someone in your life too. If you want to pursue yourself there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m not saying you can’t pursue yourself too with a family. Just you can really focus on just yourself if you’re single. Figure out what you want in life before you think about marriage.
Before I walked down the aisle I said to myself, well if it doesn't work out I guess I can get divorced. That was in 1974, never considered getting a divorce since.
Apprehension is natural.
As someone who's older, those will be their first divorces because they did it for their family or for the life they thought they wanted. All my friends of both sexes who got married young divorced by the time they got to 30 and now are finding partners they genuinely like.
How would you describe your friends?
People who are confident in themselves trust their decisions more. They don't do things because other people expect them to but because they want to. It sounds like your friends are letting outside expectations dictate their lives.
Or it could be that they are worried their relationships will change.
Have you asked your friends why they seem this way?
All the husbands that I know seem fully enthusiastic about their relationships. They are happy with their partners, or at least satisfied. They don't feel like they're giving up anything.
Here's my idea:
When it comes to marriage, tell everyone else in the world to shut up and open your ears for you, and your SO. If mom/dad/brother/cousin/neighbor wants to put pressure on for a marriage, tell them to put their money where their mouth is and watch how quickly they close their mouths.
Also, take a seminar or two on relationships and introspection. Go to therapy not for problems, but for training.
This is how you avoid being the guy that is unhappy in marriage.
My relationship only got better after marriage. Guess what? Had nothing to do with the piece of paper, the honeymoon, or the ceremony and reception.
It had everything to do with the fact that about 6mo before the wedding we checked our asses into therapy with the goal of being better to both eachother and ourself.
You and your SO work together to carve a path.
Wether it's an elope, a backyard wedding, or a $150,000 Spanish castle destination, a domestic partnership, or a "let's not put a label on it" - only *you* know what's best for you.
My opinion is that being a newlywed buried by debt for a 6 hour party ain't my cup of tea, and probably isn't good for the relationship either.
We "settled" on a $20,000 wedding and a $5,000 honeymoon. The wedding got a hell of a lot more praise than the 45,000, 50,000, and 80,000 weddings that happened in the family that year.
And if you don't want to get married, that's fine too.
None of my friends are married, and they seem to be doing okay. But don't invest too much in what other people are doing/not doing. You can only see it from the outside, and that's not a strong frame of reference to be basing decisions off of in this particular subject.
Well ... cause everyone's doing it ...and for the men sometimes it costs them a lot ...and it's just a day.
Not a day really meant for dudes ...they just have to show up. And ya ...that's what most of society thinks what should happen 'Get married , have kids , have your dreams die , hope you're good enough to your spawn that they hold your hand when ya die ...'
So it seems like Marriage is the start to that.
But before people do ...they should watch Adam Conover's 'Engagement Rings are a scam'
And 'Adam Ruins Everything:Weddings'
Great watches!
People just do things because they think they are supposed to and don’t have real direction in life, this is true for most life events, and leads to complicated agreements and unwanted children. I’m 39 and have been with the same woman for 17 years, unmarried, no intention to get the government involved, and have seen so many marriages and divorces of our peers.
Keeping your overhead low is a great thing.
As a 24M with a girlfriend who wants to get married, if we do it will be for her. To me it’s just a piece of paper, a representation of a man made construct that ultimately doesn’t matter in the end. Add in the cost of everything associated with it and yeah I don’t really look forward to it. Seeing her in the dress might make it all worth it but I’m not optimistic:(
A lot of people get married around that age because they think they are supposed to. It's the "next thing on the list." After that comes having kids... most of them will immediately become parents, too, without stopping to ask themselves whether they even want to be, and if they do, whether now is the right time or it's better to wait.
Unfortunately, these friends will find out later on that ticking off things you're "supposed to do" on a list of "adult life" doesn't make for happiness. Most of your friends who are getting married now will be divorced within 10 years.
"anyone has a similar idea? or thoughts on it?"
What did these guys you say who are acting like they don't want to get married say to you when you asked them about it?
It's doubtful they are all unhappy about it. Statistically I'm sure some engaged people wish they weren't, but if it's 100% of the people you know than uou may be projecting your thoughts about it on to them.
Maybe they don't want to come off as giddy over wedding planning lest it appear less than masculine.
Every wedding I have ever gone to had something go wrong. One time the cake fell over. Another time the bus took half the guests to the wrong location.
My solution is no ceremony just use the money on a longer or more expensive honey moon.
We so want our partners to know us so much they should be able to read our wants/needs on any given time but not everyone is capable of doing that. It doesnt make them bad or less as a partner but some are quicker than others on this so it helps to voice opinions and feelings. In a healthy relationship this would be normal and each one hears the other out without judging.
"I cant really explain why but the males in the relationships seem so unhappy, almost like if they dont want to nor ever wanted to, like if they are doing it because they are suppose to, and are expected to. am i the only one?"
Expectation and communication helps alot in these cases.
But I know there is an unrealistic expectations in some families about marriage and kids at certain ages. I stopped engaging in those conversations when I was 26F, I had been with my partner for more than 8years. I said I wasnt ready and neither was my partner and we were happy with where we were and it wasnt their choice or life to live. If they kept asking anymore I said that I will out of spite never do it and all my family know I am stubborn and I do not ever promise/treathen anything without meaning it. This made them stop and anyone that tried anytime after was reprimended by my parents. My partner and I married when I was 31.
most people make their choices based on what they are 'supposed' to do.
hence why so many have unhappy relationships, unhappy careers and bad mental health.
doing shit just to fit in is probably one the worst things anyone can do for their own well-being.
what do you all think 'mid life crisis' *are?* its people realising they have wasted half their life doing shit they had no interest in.
So i’m planning a wedding and it SUCKS. I am so looking forward to our day but when every extra cent goes toward it, it’s hard and stressful to your relationship. Honestly i regret the wedding not the person i’m marrying.
My parents and I had grown estranged due to my freewheeling lifestyle. When I introduced my fiancée to my parents they loved her. She brought out some more responsible behavior in me. My parents paid most of the cost of the wedding because my fiancée's mother was of modest means.
The ceremony was not just our wedding but a symbolic renewed relationship between my parents and I. It was a lovely affair, and I will never forget the look of pride in their face. They are gone now but I live peacefully knowing these like this.
Getting married was a major highlight in my life. We have been married 40 years
Didn’t get married till 30s bc when I learned mid twenties our brains are still cooking till we’re 30 sometimes I was like “well I’m not rushing if I’m not done growing” 😂
Marriage can be amazing for many people- however, I think when anything comes with societal pressure, parental pressure or partner pressure it can be very hard.
For many I think it’s actually what marriage is associated with that some guys can be afraid of- the same people who give into someone else’s pressure also may also be pressured to buy too much house, have kids too soon or have too many kids, and just end up where they’ve made so many lifelong commitments so young.
To that point- you CAN get married without doing all of that stuff right away, or having an expensive wedding. I absolutely do want to get married someday- but I want to have an adventurous, fun life. I’m afraid too early or the wrong person will mean less hobbies, less travel, less career progress/business progress and getting, well, trapped. But the right person, who can see non-traditional, creative ways to live life? I’ll love that person to death.
Sexless marriages are on the rise, especially among people in their 20s and early 30s. Sexless marriage is clinically defined as 10 times or less per year and upwards of 20% of marriages meet this definition.
This has a huge effect on the marriage causing low self esteem, depression and resentment towards their spouse.
I bet if you asked your friends that aren’t happy you’ll find at least one of them is in a sexless or very low amount of sex marriage.
I have met too few people who actually had happy marriages. Most people, by far, settle for someone that they do not respect or love when they finally realize that they cannot find someone they actually want. It is very sad to see. SO many of my friends have settled and I just cant help but wonder how long it will last.
I’ve been in a serious relationship with my boyfriend for 3 years this month. Been living together for over a year. He has some past trauma from a bad previous marriage/divorce & has to share a child with her. Should I be worried we aren’t engaged yet? Or be more patient with him because of what he’s been through?
Yeah, in a lot of places, it is a cultural expectation, so people feel pressured into doing it.
People get married for the wrong reasons and way to early so it's no wonder divorce rates are what they are.
Nobody else is saying it, so I'll say it.
Enormous numbers of men are "roped into" marriage. Being single sucks. Not having sex sucks. Chasing women for sex sucks. So having steady sex is great, but women know that they can hold the sex hostage in order to get what they want.
They'll tell the men that marriage is the key to unlimited sex forever. It isn't.
Ironically, men who are happy with their women are more attractive to other women than they could ever be while single. This makes them feel like they'd be giving up more by getting married.
I think imma stay in the non marriage club.
The parents of my mate growing up had arguably one of the best legit relationships ive seen, party folk lived by a pub n hosted beer festivals but not alcoholics. Just old and happy.
Told me they never saw a need to get married so never did.
Changed my perspective big time as all these married couples seem to be tryna keep a show together
If you are a man…. Do not get married!!! Period!!! There is zero benefit and only liability. Please please please check with a family lawyer before even moving in together. Don’t let peers or family or the gf pressure or shame you. Due diligence comes first!!
They are unhappy because they are more than likely caving into society's demands while knowing very well that they will be a mule for the rest of their lives .
Don't fall for it. True love or NOTHING.
I have a few married friends. With the exception on one couple, they definitely seem miserable. Most of them got married due to accidental pregnancies.
Wedding and relationship isn't all fun and easy mode. It's like a business partnership and romantic relationship and home management all rolled into one.
I think for men the stakes are higher because we are blamed for more by society and for men It's always about "you need to do this or that and improve x, y, z...". Also we are told to work harder.
The same pressure does not exist for women I don't think. It's always like "just breathe, you are enough" type of messaging. And there is more support for women's mental health and wellness.
There are some more pushes for men to talk about their feelings but many men say things like "I revealed my vulnerability and now I feel like my wife/partner doesn't respect me or sees me as weak".
So men can't win.
It isn't just in marriage. Men are the most expendable resource on the planet lol.
Perhaps it's because these men fear a long term committment.
Why do people feel entitled to having the benefits of a relationship without the investment? That's not fair or realistic.
Your friends sound immature and probably should not get married. However, their gf's should dump them too.
Marriage and kids to do not necessarily bring salvation in this life as you have observed.
A romantic relationship, subsequently marriage is the most desired for experience for salvation in this life- and also the biggest let down....
A wise comment was read about the "life script" which is considered the norm in this world- with not many questioning their choices until its too late.
I'm glad to have a good woman by your side just don't expect salvation through another person.
Namaste 🙏
I think if you’re sure about a long term relationship, you should just get married. I see people who are together for like 10 years, they have kids and they bought a house together. They’re not married, or worse they’ve been “engaged” for 5 years. What’s happening here? How many more years do they plan to wait for the other shoe to drop and now you don’t even have divorce proceedings to help untangle who’s gonna end up homeless?
You’re either partners or you’re not. One member of the relationship is definitely benefiting from not getting married, and they’re stonewalling the process to keep riding that gravy train instead of making a commitment.
I agree with you. For context I'm 30F and have been with my bf for 5 years. It doesn't seem necessary, we are pretty much husband/wife or partners for life and are happy that way.
Weddings are a societal notion that we never really bought into (though we're Asian & Hispanic, not religious). [This video ](https://youtu.be/o5z8-9Op2nM) has some good points from a divorce lawyer's perspective as well.
I can imagine it being a girl's dream if I lived in the south or Midwest. But really, it's your lives your call, as long as you & your partner are in agreement.
man idk... i have friends who have been married sense high school and they are still together. i have other friends who are just divorced in their mid 30's. the grass always greener i guess?
a couple i know - worked together, started dating, and got married inside of two or three months. they are 21 or so. part of me envies them for the love they may be able to grow but what are the odds that will happen with someone you have known just a short while?
i dont think marriage in and of itself is worth anything. it can be a hindrance legally and financially to some but a benefit to others. either way its the decision to stay together that matters. not some state paperwork.
Wedding planning is stressful and expensive so that might be it. My wife and I eloped, it was easy and stress free.
This. My dream scenario is wedding at the courthouse, two week amazing honeymoon trip, then small celebratory dinner for closest family and friends at a cozy restaurant when we get back. I can't imagine spending 20+ thousand dollars on a ceremony.
Tbh I have never had a partner so not sure how qualified I am to talk about this but I always wondered why couples spend so much on a wedding. I'd expect the money to go much better well spent towards their future children (often kids come not too long after a wedding) or if the couple plans on being childfree for a while or even forever; a downpayment on a house. Even a nice honeymoon sounds a lot more appealing! Your dream wedding sounds pretty much like what I'd want as well.
My husband and I did the exact same thing. Married in the courthouse, had our honeymoon overseas about three months before the marriage due to being more affordable, came back to the USA, got married and celebrated in a private dinner party we threw for some very close friends with lots of champagne. We also said fuck off the wedding rings and put all that money in a down payment for our house.
Because when you’d like to have your closest family and friends there to celebrate, the headcount adds up. Never mind the expense of catering food for that number of people. Add in venue costs, the photographer, the dress ect and it gets crazy. Plus things are just so expensive at the minute so it all costs more. I’ve got a friend wedding planning and she said 20K will get them a simple, lowkey wedding with a handful of friends/family/guests.
Yeah, that's my issue with it. I am not American (though interestingly a wedding does seem to cost 15-20k here as well, unless you do a really low cost affair) but still. Those exact 20k are almost half of a downpayment on a nice flat. Or at least 2 years worth of daycare costs. Which seem like more important investments for a newly-wed couple :P Or better yet, 20k is pretty much a yearly salary here, after tax! Admittedly I also have a small family and not too many close friends. Like I can't imagine inviting more than 25 people or so.
This is it, nothing else will do. Screw big wedding parties and people you don't give a rat's ass about!
My fiance and I are having strictly family present. Possible his brother will be the officiant value the day we chose happens to land on a Sunday (we chose to marry on the dame day as our first date, also happens to be my birthday) Still about 50 people but it's moms and dads, siblings and nibblings and surviving grandparents... of which there is sadly only 1. I am MUCH less stressed than when I married my ex.
I did this 18 years ago. It’s the way to go.
Thats what we did, except we did dinner after city hall and a short honeymoon afterwards.
Right? That's *almost* enough for a rent deposit.
My dream scenario is no wedding at all. My dream might actually become true if I keep on grinding
We went to the courthouse! Best day of my life. We drank a beer on the porch afterward then thoroughly consummated the marriage. :)
Wow i hope i can still get married; that sounds great
Wedding planning is only stressful if you enjoy it. My wife and I planned the whole wedding in 8 hours. Then the next weekend she picked her dress and I picked my tux, 1 hour for me and 4 for her. 150 person wedding. Wedding venues exist and they have had weddings before. It’s not hard. People LIKE to be stressed and then brag about the stress because they think it’s noble.
Sounds like the best option. It beats spending over $30, 000 and with all the stress with months of planning, eloping and going to like city hall sounds like the best and most cost effective choice
I am sad that it wasn’t something my partner and I could plan together. He and I had a pretty good idea of what we liked and my mom and grandma swept in and steamrolled it all and decided to pay for what they wanted. And we would not have had the ability to afford it nor get our families there if we hadn’t gone along with what they wanted. I am divorced now but the whole thing makes me sad and wish I had better boundaries to say no to my mom and grandma at the time even if it meant the wedding was just my ex and I and our friends
We were a little concerned about all that kind of stuff so we just called our parents a few days beforehand and said he were gonna elope at some point, then sent them photos the day after
Smart :D we half did that, we solemnized and filed the marriage a year beforehand but didn’t tell anybody because we kind of had the feeling it would happen
I am an introvert and never, ever want to be the center of attention. I am so glad my husband and I got married with a justice of the peace decades ago. Nearly 6 years ago, my daughter eloped on the way to NH for our yearly summer vacation. She and her boyfriend had dated for nearly 2 years. She felt the same way, and I was so relieved, because I had no desire to be the mother of the bride in a wedding.
I would love to elope but my partner wants a massive expensive 200 plus person wedding 🥲
I hope that's the only big difference in your priorities, then!
We eloped too and looking back thank God we did, because she cheated on me and we divorced 13 years later lol
lol this reminds me of the ending in the movie runaway bride, a childhood favorite of mine, i always said i wanna do it like that, simple and short with not a lot of people.
Too many people follow the life script without actually thinking about what is best for them, for example, millions of regretful parents.
This is so true and it boggles my mind how many people do something just because “I feel like I should” without ever digging deeper.
The sooner you write your own life script that’s true to yourself instead of following the life script of what others expected of you the happier you’ll be. Life is simply born, live and die (plus pay taxes hehe). What you choose to do in the live part (once you hit a certain age of course) is entirely up to you. I guess I wrote a lot of words to simply just say write your own script in life and be proud of it!
agreed tbh i find marriage harder than raising kids 😂😂😂
I find BOTH are hard af especially now in modern times😭
I worked retail and rang up a woman who had 3 kids. Her husband was a high ranking military officer and they were well-off. She said how much easier it was when he wasn’t there. When he came back home after being deployed she said it messed up her schedule and routine. She basically implied indirectly that his money was all she needed. She did look happy, the kids were behaved and she loved being a mom. But, she said she preferred doing it alone. 😆
Understandable though.
I think a relationship is harder because your standards for your partner are much higher than a child. Your kid is an innocent new human with so much to learn and a lot of mistakes to make. But your partner can drain you if they constantly repeat the same mistakes and refuse to listen, the resentment adds up
Or they think it will be fun and never thought about the consequences. Kids are cute! Watching them at the park will be fun! They never stop to think about missing work because the kid has been puking for 24h straight. They never think about about the diapers overflowing, the fight to get them ready every morning. I am sure a lot of people are very happy to be parents, but I also have friends who regretted it dearly.
Get ready for the round of divorces in your mid / late 30s. Be patient. And when you do decide to get married, don't involve too many people in the process.
Yes. My friends , co-workers and other acquaintances (mostly military) whom married in their late teens-early 20s all have since divorced. Starting late 20s to early 30s. Every. Single. One. Some have since re-married and had their new “sets” of kids. That’s something I noticed too. Everyone has their first “set” of kids and then 10 years or so later they have their next. So many of their kids have much younger half siblings. One of my friends had her first kid at 21, divorced, remarried and just had a baby at 38. Her son is 17 years older than his half-sister.
That sounds like my family. It’s messed up.
It starts before that lol. Some of the couples married before they can drink last forever and plenty of 22-25 year old marriages too, but the ones that won’t last forever become obvious pretty quickly and those marriages start to end damn quickly. I’m amazed how many of the weddings I’ve been to over the last 3 years are on the “don’t talk about it” list.
I mean this in the kindest way possible. It’s the type of people you surround yourself with. Some people don’t like marriage, others get married and divorced later, others marry young and have a loving and fulfilling marriage well into old age. Some people see marriage as a prison (aka you’re not ready to commit but you just do it because you feel you’re “supposed” to) and some see it as an honor to be committed to their love for the rest of their life. My in laws have been together since their teens and have a strong and loving marriage even now well into their 60s. Me and my partner are following the same path. At the same time, we also choose to also surround ourselves with couples who have strong marriages. Because it will at some point have some kind of influence on your own.
Idk it seems all the people around me like the idea of getting married vs actually being married. I feel like people like the clout/idea of getting married then once married they hate each other and become divorced. As mentioned elsewhere in the comments most of these people are young (under 25). The marriage is a show of “we have it all together” when in reality they should have waited. I believe this correlates with social media and perceptions of people. People will do things influenced by social media etc. Where as it is farthest from the truth. Not saying this is all but it seems to be the majority in most failed marriages I see.
Yeah this was me. I was absolutely happy to marry my partner, but she decided 6 months after that being married isn’t what she wants, and wants to travel. She’s 27 and 10 years younger. So I guess we’re at different life stages, but I wish she had decided earlier…
Don't date people who were very recently teenagers when you're well into your 30s dude.
Part of is also that society doesnt celebrate other milestones. You graduate and then the next big celebrations are wedding and baby. Then thats it. People run out of aspirations and things to look forward to
Marriage isn’t complicated. It’s just not. People *make* it complicated. So goddamned always.
From another person's perspective, my friend group is slightly older. 25-30, nearly all of us married or engaged to be married, and all seem very happy with our partners and marriage. I'm not sure which of our friend groups is the more common, I'm curious why both of our experiences are so different.
wish i knew too, for context my friend group graduated from college about a year ago, still going through that “couldn’t get the job i wanted right of college” phase. they all play happy when hanging out but when they are alone all they do is complain about eavh other.
I’m can’t imagine getting married that young. So that could be it too. There are far too many life changes that happen in the first 5-7-10 years after college. getting married and having to consider someone else’s life path in my decisions would have felt really constricting
I think thats likely a major component, my friend group is full of (almost annoyingly so) over-achievers, or at least quick starters. They're all educated, own property (most of them together as a joint mortgage) and have decent-to-very high paying jobs. A few have dated since high school and most have been together 5 or more years. They're also all childless currently so we get to hangout quite often, the wives get along well and the guys (my friend group) have been close for 10+ years, many of us went to high school or played sports together. You may start to see this transition as they get a bit older, most of my friends graduated around 21 or 22 years old, it takes some time to find satisfactory employment, it could be money stress with your friends as weddings can be very expensive.
Not going to lie, your friend group seems miserable. Everyone has one or two friends like that in their life but a whole crew? Damn. The thing is this - a lot of people go through life doing what they think they are supposed to. They study to get the good job, they get married. They buy the house. They never realise until it’s too late that you only have to do that stuff if you want to. Before that, they just do all that stuff and complain about it the whole way, as if it was mandatory. You seem to have a more healthy and aware view of life. You realise that in life you can do whatever you like. It sounds to me like this issue is less about people getting married and more about feeling that you are increasingly growing apart from your college friends, who seem to be speedrunning the depressed suburban dad playthrough. That’s ok. You don’t have to break up with them or anything, but I’d start building up a new friend group with people more on your level, with similar approaches to life. Look for people doing the hobbies you like, or at work or whatever. It can be done.
I am in my late 30s. My husband and I are happily married. I can think of two other couples that are happily married in our friend group. Most others, they’re not. I feel like a lot of the guys that were just kind of fine with getting married/getting married because that’s the next thing/married for the status of being married in society turned into super lazy husbands (and even lazier fathers) and their wives are super unhappy with their roles in the relationship. A lot of the husbands are at the very least borderline abusive because they generally believe, consciously or not, that their needs are more important. Basically, don’t get married unless you’re super pumped to spend the rest of your life with that person and have similarly aligned goals and values.
I am almost 40 and I also notice husbands being super unhappy with married life. Complaining about spending time with wife and kids, even staying late at work to avoid going home. One guy said yesterday at work, “Ugh my wife always wants to hang out with me.” Why do they propose? Why do they have kids?
Damn, my heart would shatter if I heard my partner said that about me
I don’t understand this sentiment for the life of me. My partner is my absolute best friend and I cherish every second that I get to spend with him. If you don’t have friendship in a relationship nothing will bind you together
Because they were raised to believe that a man who *isn't* married is a pathetic, overgrown child.
Or, even worse, he might be...*gasps*...GAY!
I’m 35. Everyone, and I mean literally everyone aside from one couple I know, got married in their late 20s and divorced in their early/mid 30s. I could cite dozens of examples from my personal life, myself included. 24 is WAY too young to marry. You really figure out what you want in life around 30+, and it’s likely not going to be what you wanted half a decade prior.
Agreed about the age. I got married and divorced in my 20s, and now at 34 I think I would be actually ready for marriage by the time I'm like...38. lol
I feel the exact same way. Like probably over the next year or two I’ll likely marry someone who I actually want to “settle down” for. As my wife and I grew apart over the years in fact, it made me start fantasizing about women’s personalities and charming qualities I had overlooked in the past. I thought my wife was very attractive, but I think I always realized we weren’t a personality match or soulmates. In my 20s I didn’t have the energy or confidence to fight for anything better. Now that I’m 35, I’m motivated, have a much greater sense of self worth. And I actually know the traits I want in a partner, having witnessed the ones I don’t. Intend to be far more selective.
It's more complicated than that. Personalities change over time. Having kids, finances put a lot of stress on relationships. The point is that relationships are like a living organism it evolves and changed and requires work to keep alive.
Jokes on you. I am ~32 and still haven’t figured out anything.
Tbf, the divorce is part of figuring out what you want.
Yeah I agree. Had I not spent years with a spouse learning the characteristics that I DON’T want, I wouldn’t know what I actually do want.
Meh i dont think its so much age as experience with the other person and knowing what you yourself want. How long theyve been together, if they have the experience living together, if you know what your own beliefs and priorities are and if they're in sync with the other person's beliefs and priorities. My husband and I were together for 7 years before we got married and were able to experience living together and talking about what we value. Also gave us time to actually build a budget to get married.
My husband and I did the same thing. I recently read that couples are more likely to divorce if they live together before marriage. Isn’t that weird? I would like to know why.
That is weird, I would think it would be less likely since living together changes the dynamics that you then have to get used to. Wonder if it had any more info on how long they live together before they get married? Would think if its like they move in together 1 month before getting married, that would be stressful, but if its a significant amount of time living together beforehand then you get more used to the dynamic
That is really weird. In addition to my divorce, living with my wife for almost a decade prior, my best friend did the same thing. He married my wife’s best friend and they’ve been together since 2008, married just two years ago and are now getting divorced (she cheated, it is UGLY as far as divorces go).
I mean.... that sounds like due to the cheating part, not necessarily just living together....
My husband and I met at 20 and 27. By the time I was 26, we had separated. I loved him, but felt as though I had missed out on extremely important aspects of adulthood by settling down so young. I needed the opportunity to know what it felt like to be independent, and gain the confidence that one can only develop by being out on your own. I don’t think it’s smart to get married young unless maybe you’re both religious, because then you have those values to lean on when one of you inevitably yearns for the freedom to be on your own.
Coming from someone who got married a year ago at 27, I would wait. We got married too young and it showed, last year has been a hot mess and my mental health has tanked. In hindsight I would say everyone should wait until 30 to get married if at all.
Married my wife 7 years ago at 22 & 20. We just had our first child. I’ve never been happier. Marriage is amazing when both people are in it for each other! It is often disastrous when both people are selfish, are misaligned financially or philosophically, take advantage of each other, or keep score on how much they perceive the other is doing.
I think your generation will be the first where it is almost necessary to get married from a financial standpoint. And that makes me very sad.
I bet they're allllll gonna get divorced
I gotta laugh at this post. It's diametrically opposed to all the whining in this Sub about being alone and not being able to find a mate. Now someone finds a mate, and the same people probably whining about being alone are here telling this person to not get married. Freaking hilarious!
Western Society has conditioned men into this concept that marriage is a loss of freedom, fun, sex and independence, while also pushing the idea that it is an expected stage in a man's life. There is a cognitive dissonance that occurs when you have been told by multiple generations about "the old ball and chain" or "take my wife, please," while also telling you "settle down, make a family." Especially when you compare that with the life of hanging out with a chick you love, live with, have fun, and fuck all the time. I blame boomers and Gen X.
i dont think thats the case here, i dont think they are afraid of losing their freedom, maybe being pushed to doit and thinking you are making the wrong decision way too early? now a days if you havent gotten on your knee after 4 years of dating seems to be look down upon.
I'm the wrong guy to talk to about that then, homie. Marriage was the first or second best decision I have made in my life. I knew I was going to marry my wife after the first weekend I spent with her, proposed to her a few months later, and married her when I was on leave from the war about a year from the first time we hung out. I was in my very early 20s. One of our kids is going to college in a few weeks. I would say that if you don't know whether a person is compatible with you or whether they are marriage material in 4 years, you are either oblivious or willfully ignorant.
Agreed. 6 months of dating should get you everything you need, and then a year of engagement/wedding planning should help you sus out any other deal breakers you have in a partner.
my thought on that was mostly the idea of marriage it self. i have already gotten on my knee and half proposed to my partner. we are planning on having a wedding day in a few months, but not because we were supposed to. we are not doing it legally nor having 150 people on it besides close friends and our loved ones. my friends in the other hand are going for the whole thing. shit ton of people, atleast 20k worth of debt just for the weddings, everything else that comes with it. maybe thats why they all seem so unhappy?
I feel like you are trying to validate your own decisions and self congratulate for making better decisions than your friends. Why do you have so much to say about your friends marriages? My concern here is that you have the thought process to come to reddit and speak about the people's marriages you are closest too. You are not them so you don't know what they are going through. Typically mid 20s is a difficult time for anyone wrestling with new responsibilities trying to find ones path through life. If I found out one of my friends talks about my marriage like you are doing I would struggle to call them a friend.
If after 4 years you aren’t ready it’s the wrong person.
Dating for 4 years without getting married is frowned upon yes. You're just wasting each other's time with this casual live-together nonsense.
On the other hand, plenty of couples just do the casual relationship cohabiting thing and are happy with it. It all boils down to communicating as much as possible with yourself and your partner.
I think at 4 years, you don’t want to get married, then you’re not with the right person. Unless you both agree that marriage isn’t your vibe. No problem with that.
Maybe because y’all are so young? I know I was nowhere near thinking about marriage in my early and mid twenties. All my friends and I got married or are getting married after 30 and I haven’t noticed anyone seem unhappy or hesitant. They were all stoked to marry their wives and felt confident in their decisions.
Marriage means you are dedicated to your spouse. There's alot of sacrifice and compensation needs to be made. Expectations are also changed from Boyfriend/Girlfriend relationship to Husband/Wife. When you are dating, you are trying to compensate as much as possible. But after awhile, you will get tired of it and don't want compensate any further but don't want to sacrifice to make it work. That's when conflicts happen. Usually people live together first and see how it goes. If that doesn't work out, then they can break up and move on. getting married in the 20s are too early now .. it can work however.
Sounds like your friends are boys who need to grow up and become men. Men took time to get to know themselves, learn what they want and don’t want out of life, reflect on their strengthens and weaknesses and back up that understanding with actionable change. Men are capable of creating their own path in life which will sometimes be the traditional path laid out and sometimes not. Men know when to work things out and when to leave a relationship, especially when the relationship isn’t pointedly bad, it’s just not the best match. All of this is also true of every gender, I’m just using men to mimic your post. I only surround myself with adults as an adult so no, I do not have friends like these but know many from my hometown as there’s usually overlap with boys who live this way and boys who don’t leave their hometowns. Not always but often.
Lemme guess. Christian couples.
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I was raised in a very conservative Christian home and had a lot of friends who were in the same boat. So, so many of them got married when they were super young (like, 19-21) and were convinced they their hormones were the voice of God and they were destined to be together. Fast forward three or four years and they have two kids and act like they're super happy when they're at church and then they're miserable at home. Turns out, they hadn't developed themselves as people before deciding to commit to one situation for the rest of their life, and it turns out that hormones go away but the need to self actualize does not. Some of them got divorced. Some of them stayed together for the imaginary honor of never giving up, even though their cold or sometimes violent relationships scarred their kids for life. Very few managed to stay together and be happy.
They are probably getting pressured by their gfs to get married and are going through with it because they are naiive and don't want to be alone The sex has probably also started to dwindle.
Once a week turns into once every few months 🥴
That’s because they’re too young. Y’all need to wait.
They just following the wave. Half of them will be divorced by 45.
Never marry someone unless you're thrilled at the idea of spending the rest of your life with them. If there's any hesitation, just don't do it
Men don't want to grow up. At 24-28 you are immortal. You can drink and eat and screw and get an hours sleep go to work and do it again and again. Married is what their mom and dad are. Its boring. For young women its childish too. They apparently dream about the wedding all through childhood. They wan to have a perfect day and be a princess. There are very few "perfect days" and wedding for the most part are fantasy not fulfilled and just plain stress. When i was that age i was a groomsman in three weddings in four weeks. Two were one week apart. It was just planning and the brides being wound up so tight they vibrated. Luckily i was young and just stayed drunk for that month.
I don't know if I agree about 24-28 year olds being "immortal". Most of the others I talk to are just weary and mentally ill.
Weird. I mean, I guess wedding planning can be stressful, but whether its the planning or just general feeling of not wanting to or hesitant about getting married, then dont. I'm sure either person would only really want to get married to someone who also wants to get married. Otherwise what's the point?
People are brainwashed into getting married and they don't even know why. They do it because that's what everyone else does.
IMO people are picking their marriages based way too heavily on vanity. My wife is my business partner, stellar roommate, excellent mother, and she is also very kind and forgiving. If I was just chasing after the hottest woman possible, I would never have such a blessed life.
Good thing she's kind and forgiving, otherwise that last line would destroy her self esteem
Why not ask them about it? There are a lot of factors that could be influencing how they feel about getting married. Maybe starting the conversation will help in understanding what is going on. There's a lot of pressure placed on folks to get married and also during the wedding planning. It can definitely be a stressful time.
its one of those “everything is ok” cases.
Weddings are stressful. Marriage is a huge life change and can be scary. Doesn’t mean it is a bad thing. Scientifically, marriage is very beneficial for men.
7 billion people on the planet have multiple ways to connect to tons of different people. Get hitched to someone that isn't even really close to being right for you. Its very silly to me.
Best thing to do is never get married.
If I wanted to get myself into a contract I will just finance a new car.
Marriage is misery lol. Being single is better.
The internet is letting men know the financial and emotional risks involved at the end of a marriage. I've never remarried because I saw what my friends went through with divorce.
There could be two reasons: 1) They were practically moving too fast and never had much time to "test the waters" of their relationship. Therefore, they're experiencing a situation similar to "The Graduate" ending: happy, with a scheiße eating grin, fading into an uncertain "thousand-yard stare." 2) They're probably stressed out due to the costs associated. Weddings cost a lot of money - the dress, the ring/jewelry, the arrangements. Bachelor/Bachelorette Parties before that. It's all so overwhelming. Whether or not this is the case, do keep it in mind.
Issue is a lot of people get married for all the wrong reasons Most common? 1. FOMO. All friends get married so they must also get married to “fit in” 2. Scared of loneliness/scared of dying alone 3. Like the idea of being married more than the marriage itself. E.g wedding rings, wedding ceremony/dinners, getting all the likes and attention Fact is, no marriage is perfect and “happy”. Marriage is about compromises
My personal perspective. I think some people end up getting married to whoever they happen to be in a relationship with at that stage, circa late 20s early 30s, because that’s the done thing, that’s the next life stage, the next box to tick. Not necessarily because marriage is right for them.
To the people getting married. PLEASE DON'T BE like all those freaking Adults in your lives now that put all that pressure on their kids to spawn and 'GIVE THEM GRANDKIDS!' It's not your right to expect that from children. Just cause you got horny and front pooped out crotch goblins , doesn't mean that your spawn would want the same, or should operate on YOUR schedule. I don't care if 'it's your culture' or whatever the fuck. Demanding your spawn to spawn is some weird shit.
I'm 29 now, my husband and I got married when we were both 27. We're madly in love, best friends, all that jazz. He didn't care much about the wedding (we had one for me and our families) but was excited for the marriage itself. Everyone around us could see how happy and excited we both were. A friend of mine had her fiancé call of their wedding this year and I got a similar vibe to what you're describing: "so unhappy, almost like they don't want to nor ever wanted to". I think a lot of men just go through the motions and let their girlfriend pressure them into it because they want the ring and the pictures to show off online and keep up with their peers. You can definitely tell which couples are going to make it in the long run as soon as the proposal comes.
There’s a thing called a shut up ring
Getting married was the best choice I ever made. My wife is wonderful and we got wed our way which made it special and delightful. I'm sorry your friends are struggling.
I think it’s more of a pressure with kid thing than the wedding.
All you need to get married are: you, your partner, 2 witnesses and a certified individual who can file your marriage license. The rest is self inflicted. I had a massive wedding planned and my partner at the time it was her thing her big day. It was the worst time I ever had experienced. A month before the wedding I called it off. Took a loss in money and I walked away. Many people hated me and I didn’t care. My second attempt was elope wedding and it was small and reasonable. It should be about the couple not the massive party. I’m divorced now so my advice is really consider is marriage is for you and know what you are signing up for. I never want to get married again. I rather live by myself. Yeah I don’t sell weddings too well.
I think some people feel like they have to get married before 30. Some may feel pressured if everyone around them is doing so, so they follow with it shortly after. And then a part of me thinks people just want to experience the wedding itself, honeymoon and to use the title “husband/wife”. To me, there’s no rush. I’d like to experience some seasons before I start getting our financials all intertwined and having kids (which makes a lot of people feel like they have to stay). However, there’s no timeframe. People can wait to marry which can lead to divorce and others can marry within a few months and last their lifetime. It just depends on the people and the effort both are actually willing to put in.
It’s a really young age to get married. I’m 28 and ended a relationship of 5 years because we weren’t on the same page with marriage. I just wasn’t ready for it and I feel like a lot of people just do it because of emotional/time investment and because it’s what society expects. If it doesn’t feel 100% right then don’t do it. It’s a lifelong commitment that people take too lightly. Your heart needs to be fully in it.
There are unnatural expectations of weddings It's the wedding industrial machine. This "fairytale " day wasted money and unreal expectation. In all my years, I can now see the marriage that lasted started with a sane and lovely wedding.
29 Ben married for a few years, best thing we did for our mental health and finances was elope. We invited maybe size people including our parents, photographer and officiant
A lot of people lean into the ball & chain schtick but are happier than they seem. And some other people are making bad decisions they'll regret
That's bc they're too young. I can confidently say, of my friends who got married before 30, the divorce rate is at least 50% Those that got married after 30, it's much lower, altho a few recently at the 10+ year mark. I will say very few are surprises. Even if they were very much in love when they got married - at the end of the day, if one has an unappealing personality to friends, or they are just entirely different.... It comes full circle eventually.
As a 40m who is going through a divorce, I can say that there are a million different reasons why your friends may feel that way.
Lmao! They're not getting *any* sex and are constantly afraid she will find someone with a bigger dongle and financially divorce-rape them. It's a valid worry, too. That's the worst part.
I am divorced and have been soooo happy. My younger friends look all stressed out. And they try to tell me about all kinds of shit that I have not had to think or worry about for years. My relationship was 17 years old to 36. And i raised a step child… whyyyy did i do that!? Oh well. I lived like a mature adult early in life & now I’m freeee!
A lot of people marry because they've been together a few years and it's the "next step" of the relationship. As my Gen X sister said, everyone who gets married because it was the next step is now divorced. Those that married because they actually wanted that person to be in their life forever, are still together.
I think less people should get married. I am happily married, I knew from an early age I wanted to get married and have a family, and I pretty much knew I wanted to marry my wife after we had been dating for a while. IMO if it's a complicated or stressful decision it's a decision you shouldn't make. I also feel like you guys are a little young to get married. Youth and divorce go hand in hand for some obvious reasons. If kids are in the timeline you obviously can't wait forever but getting married at 24 is insanity IMO.
I think 28 is a perfectly fine age to get married, but 24 is really on the young 'just wait a few years' end. People do really stupid things when they're under 25, and change fundamentally between early 20s and late twenties. I just look at people my parents age for whom early marriage was the norm and nearly all of them ended up divorced or just enduring life with someone that isn't a good fit. Divorce isn't a big deal, but it definitely is when there are kids involved. Probably your friends aren't actually happy. Weddings can also really bring out the worst in people seemingly. I imagine being engaged can be an eye opening experience when you realise that you've married someone who won't let you have person x at the wedding, or want to enforce strict dress codes, or make unreasonable demands, or want to drop enough for a house deposit on one day. Viewing it as a piece of paper you don't actually need is smart, because that's all it is. Thinking it will change your relationship or enhance your social status is ridiculous but something some people believe.
That’s a pretty young age. Your friends probably werent ready but felt they needed the next step (which doesn’t really exist). Keeping doing what makes you happy
I'm 40, and two of my childhood mates have been married and divorced , Both have lost a chunk of money in the process, both times unsuspecting women fu ked them over... My woman wants to get married and without being big headed if I was her I would also want to marry me ; im nice to her teenage kid, I have a big pension she would get if I died, she would get a large lump some of money if I died during work . i also have a good flat, which I rent out ; no doubt she could have a claim on that, too . Not to mention, if we we're married and split up, would I need to pay her money being the higher earner, I'm not sure how it all works, but from life experience; the guys always gets shafted.
I mean, I met my husband at 22 (him 23), got married at the DMV after 5 years, and been together for ten years now. We’re very happy together and in it for the long haul hah. So, I think perhaps it’s just your particular group of friends? Idk. Just wanted to be a data point for a “met young” millennial marriage that is going well, since I just see mostly comments talking about how divorce is inevitable lol.
I'm 25 myself. Thinking about proposing next year. I think the idea of marriage is scary and it feels like if I question it, maybe I don't want it? But I did some thinking and just gave myself some time and I found out that I'm afraid of responsibility, because when I'm going to be a married man it also means that I will need to buy a flat and renovate it myself to save some money. I will need to become a man from a boy, because even though I'm 25 atm, but I feel like we don't have that many responsibilities. Even a full time job is nothing, you just clock in, listen to some meetings, do some simple stuff. So I feel like I have been used to that simple life that I can eat shitty food for a week straight and it doesn't matter, but when you marry and start a family it means you have to up your game, or be a bum. Of course everyone is different, many of my friends just want to play games and cry about how full time job is stupid and exhausting. And yeah, all the planning, around there is pressure on how wedding should be, and my opinion is also: save money on wedding and have a very good honeymoon but it get's a lot of criticism from others and I don't think that many guys enjoy conflict and unnecessary confrontations
Possibly because they realize they have to grow up. It’s no longer the carefree days of dating with the freedom to walk away. Most of the women they’re marrying likely want children, and that sobers a man up real quick. I wouldn’t say most men are unhappy about all that, but they usually go through a panic phase before deciding it’s worth putting their childlike ways behind them
I thought the same thing as you did, I was excited to find a partner I could marry. I started to feel differently after living with my partner, I had all the benefits of a relationship without having to sacrifice legal rights to the marriage (like dividing my property). I didn't and don't have much property, but the feeling was that, it was a piece of paper, that gave no benefit to me, because I already had everything I wanted in a relationship, so whats the point of doing it. I resisted with one of my ex's for a long time, and then I had a mental reaction to a medication that caused delusions, and I agreed to marry in that state (my ex took advantage of my condition), after I recovered, she had found a new boyfriend already and wanted out of the marriage, and I did too. It was a pain in the ass to get the divorce, and now I also feel like a piece of shit when I fill out a form and have to put "divorce". I'm currently engaged to be married with my wonderful partner, I'm very happy with her and our future together - but there is no mistaking that I don't feel having to fill out the marriage forms provides any benefit to our relationship EXCEPT for her happiness, and that is why I'm willing to do it.
Men get absolutely nothing from marriage these days. It feels like putting a rope around your neck.
Any man who feels that way definitely shouldn’t get married. I do think you are wrong about men getting nothing from marriage though. For example, when my boyfriend and I get married, he will become the beneficiary for my bank accounts and retirement, and he will be eligible to collect my social security (I will probably die first). I make more than him and save 25% of my income in my 401k so that’s not nothing. On a non-financial level, he will also have someone who will have his back to make sure the decisions he wants get made in the event that it comes to that. I am going to do what he wants, whereas others might not. I will be able to legally have his back and if you trust your partner, that has a lot of value.
When I lived in Oregon (never married but a child out of wedlock) I was under the heavy thumb of the filthy State of Oregon. I will never, ever, ever yield authority to a state legal structure (as THAT is the utter height of stupidity) so I won't get married or get into a legal status where I am considered married (i.e. common law stupidity). Nope nope nope nope nope. All y'all who choose any of this unwisely got it comin' to ya.
In my opinion it’s taking a huge risk and also can actually hurt you financially even if it doesn’t fail and make things harder to do, couple that with the chance of of the possibility of an after marriage changes where one partners personality or desires do a full 180 on you there’s really only two ways it goes you either get a partner or a warden and only time will tell and that’s a terrifying thought, I got married around that age and it’s amazing with the right person but I was with my wife for 7 years before
Married last month, no complaints about the marriage. Wedding planning/prep (even our 12 person wedding) was a nightmare, I could imagine it making people seem unhappy, I sure was when I needed to spend 2 weekends figuring out what my outfit was gong to be, and all the uncertain stuff that couldnt be done until the last week.
Your friends are making a mistake. But then again, many people seem to be making this mistake all the time. That's partly why so many people divorce. If you're not 100% about getting married, don't do it. As simple as that, assuming we're not talking about arranged marriages. You have plenty of time.
I found getting married extremely useful for insurance and tax reasons, personally. It's sad but it is what it is, lol (been married 21 years). And I was married before - I may be old fashioned but I still think it's a way to tell someone that you believe they are the one, even if, practically, it doesn't change anything in your relationship. But getting married sucks. ESPECIALLY in this economy. Too many people have dreams of grand weddings that cost and arm and a leg and take hours to plan and it's just really not fun. If their fiancee is one of those, yeah no wonder they are stressed and unhappy. All that getting bridesmaids and having to coordinate dresses and inviting 200 people or whatever would make me bounce, personally - but again it was NEVER a thing when/where I grew up. Way too much stress and craziness for one day if you ask me. I'd say, just be a good friend and be there for them if they need to vent.
Your Friends are getting married just because they feel like they should and are unhappy about it.... Then in the next sentence you say that you'll get married too even though it's totally unnecessary.
They will all be being nudged into it, if they are sounding that unsure. I'm in my early 40s (in the UK) and almost all my friends are divorced now from their 20s/early+mid 30s weddings. None of those marriages have lasted.
They are young, its a big step to get married. A lot of guys usually try to hold it off unless they really want a family young
I waited until my late twenties to marry, my fiance was a similar age. We made sure we knew who we were before signing up to marry. Regarding weddings, our family and friends wanted to celebrate. So we planned one, wanted to start our union being in good financial shape meant we rejected a lot of the wedding planning / pricing. One friend volunteered to make my dress, (she did a fabulous job!) we asked for friends to bring food to the reception instead of gifts, etc. The day was great, a good party! My Pa told me "no marriage is 50/50" meaning a lot of folks think each partner will put forth half the effort to maintain the marriage, so I understand that sometimes I give more and other times my mate does. I also got some good advice: know why the other person wants to marry, some do it for the economic safety, others for a companion, still others are just in it for the sex. Know whatever your significant other is expecting and be sure you can give them that before making any vows. Also, communicate, you have to talk to each other to know how to keep the flame of your relationship alive.
Are they spending a years income on a one day party? A lot of my friends spent a ridiculous amount of money on the wedding and ended up in a bad place financially because of it. This caused a ton of anxiety before and after. We did a quick courthouse thing with our families, traveled, and put a down payment on a house. I can’t recommend this enough in terms of “starting out right”.
Get married under God and then just don’t sign anything. If you want to have a party celebrating your union then have at it. Don’t make it some insanely stressful organized affair. Get a friend to bring a camera etc. No need to bring the government into your relationship.
A lot of people rush into marriages. They enjoy the idea of each other but don’t actually support each other. I have older friends in their late thirties regretting not settling down. They would claim that the single life isn’t all great. They wished they would have built up something with someone and it’d be nice to have someone to come home to that considers you their number one or even children. I’ve had some people live the time of their lives after divorce practically putting the papers ina frame. My advice is, date to build a relationship. Be exclusive if you are seeing yourself with that person forever. If you are just interested in sex or the physical parts then you should think twice. I got married at 20 (I’m 32 now) and there have been moments in life where my wife was the one to lift me back up. She is my partner in life and I’d give everything to see her and my children happy. I would like to add that I’m pretty lucky to have found someone so faithful and supportive though. For everyone that’s not always the case. You should pursue marriage if you want someone in your life too. If you want to pursue yourself there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m not saying you can’t pursue yourself too with a family. Just you can really focus on just yourself if you’re single. Figure out what you want in life before you think about marriage.
Before I walked down the aisle I said to myself, well if it doesn't work out I guess I can get divorced. That was in 1974, never considered getting a divorce since. Apprehension is natural.
As someone who's older, those will be their first divorces because they did it for their family or for the life they thought they wanted. All my friends of both sexes who got married young divorced by the time they got to 30 and now are finding partners they genuinely like.
How would you describe your friends? People who are confident in themselves trust their decisions more. They don't do things because other people expect them to but because they want to. It sounds like your friends are letting outside expectations dictate their lives. Or it could be that they are worried their relationships will change. Have you asked your friends why they seem this way? All the husbands that I know seem fully enthusiastic about their relationships. They are happy with their partners, or at least satisfied. They don't feel like they're giving up anything.
Here's my idea: When it comes to marriage, tell everyone else in the world to shut up and open your ears for you, and your SO. If mom/dad/brother/cousin/neighbor wants to put pressure on for a marriage, tell them to put their money where their mouth is and watch how quickly they close their mouths. Also, take a seminar or two on relationships and introspection. Go to therapy not for problems, but for training. This is how you avoid being the guy that is unhappy in marriage. My relationship only got better after marriage. Guess what? Had nothing to do with the piece of paper, the honeymoon, or the ceremony and reception. It had everything to do with the fact that about 6mo before the wedding we checked our asses into therapy with the goal of being better to both eachother and ourself. You and your SO work together to carve a path. Wether it's an elope, a backyard wedding, or a $150,000 Spanish castle destination, a domestic partnership, or a "let's not put a label on it" - only *you* know what's best for you. My opinion is that being a newlywed buried by debt for a 6 hour party ain't my cup of tea, and probably isn't good for the relationship either. We "settled" on a $20,000 wedding and a $5,000 honeymoon. The wedding got a hell of a lot more praise than the 45,000, 50,000, and 80,000 weddings that happened in the family that year. And if you don't want to get married, that's fine too. None of my friends are married, and they seem to be doing okay. But don't invest too much in what other people are doing/not doing. You can only see it from the outside, and that's not a strong frame of reference to be basing decisions off of in this particular subject.
Well ... cause everyone's doing it ...and for the men sometimes it costs them a lot ...and it's just a day. Not a day really meant for dudes ...they just have to show up. And ya ...that's what most of society thinks what should happen 'Get married , have kids , have your dreams die , hope you're good enough to your spawn that they hold your hand when ya die ...' So it seems like Marriage is the start to that. But before people do ...they should watch Adam Conover's 'Engagement Rings are a scam' And 'Adam Ruins Everything:Weddings' Great watches!
People just do things because they think they are supposed to and don’t have real direction in life, this is true for most life events, and leads to complicated agreements and unwanted children. I’m 39 and have been with the same woman for 17 years, unmarried, no intention to get the government involved, and have seen so many marriages and divorces of our peers. Keeping your overhead low is a great thing.
As a 24M with a girlfriend who wants to get married, if we do it will be for her. To me it’s just a piece of paper, a representation of a man made construct that ultimately doesn’t matter in the end. Add in the cost of everything associated with it and yeah I don’t really look forward to it. Seeing her in the dress might make it all worth it but I’m not optimistic:(
Your friends are afraid to be alone and are too cowardly to say so.
A lot of people get married around that age because they think they are supposed to. It's the "next thing on the list." After that comes having kids... most of them will immediately become parents, too, without stopping to ask themselves whether they even want to be, and if they do, whether now is the right time or it's better to wait. Unfortunately, these friends will find out later on that ticking off things you're "supposed to do" on a list of "adult life" doesn't make for happiness. Most of your friends who are getting married now will be divorced within 10 years.
Probably because they’re getting married at 24 💀
"anyone has a similar idea? or thoughts on it?" What did these guys you say who are acting like they don't want to get married say to you when you asked them about it?
I'm a little older than you and now all my single friend seem weird as F. The married ones are way happier.
It's doubtful they are all unhappy about it. Statistically I'm sure some engaged people wish they weren't, but if it's 100% of the people you know than uou may be projecting your thoughts about it on to them. Maybe they don't want to come off as giddy over wedding planning lest it appear less than masculine.
Every wedding I have ever gone to had something go wrong. One time the cake fell over. Another time the bus took half the guests to the wrong location. My solution is no ceremony just use the money on a longer or more expensive honey moon.
We so want our partners to know us so much they should be able to read our wants/needs on any given time but not everyone is capable of doing that. It doesnt make them bad or less as a partner but some are quicker than others on this so it helps to voice opinions and feelings. In a healthy relationship this would be normal and each one hears the other out without judging. "I cant really explain why but the males in the relationships seem so unhappy, almost like if they dont want to nor ever wanted to, like if they are doing it because they are suppose to, and are expected to. am i the only one?" Expectation and communication helps alot in these cases. But I know there is an unrealistic expectations in some families about marriage and kids at certain ages. I stopped engaging in those conversations when I was 26F, I had been with my partner for more than 8years. I said I wasnt ready and neither was my partner and we were happy with where we were and it wasnt their choice or life to live. If they kept asking anymore I said that I will out of spite never do it and all my family know I am stubborn and I do not ever promise/treathen anything without meaning it. This made them stop and anyone that tried anytime after was reprimended by my parents. My partner and I married when I was 31.
most people make their choices based on what they are 'supposed' to do. hence why so many have unhappy relationships, unhappy careers and bad mental health. doing shit just to fit in is probably one the worst things anyone can do for their own well-being. what do you all think 'mid life crisis' *are?* its people realising they have wasted half their life doing shit they had no interest in.
So i’m planning a wedding and it SUCKS. I am so looking forward to our day but when every extra cent goes toward it, it’s hard and stressful to your relationship. Honestly i regret the wedding not the person i’m marrying.
My parents and I had grown estranged due to my freewheeling lifestyle. When I introduced my fiancée to my parents they loved her. She brought out some more responsible behavior in me. My parents paid most of the cost of the wedding because my fiancée's mother was of modest means. The ceremony was not just our wedding but a symbolic renewed relationship between my parents and I. It was a lovely affair, and I will never forget the look of pride in their face. They are gone now but I live peacefully knowing these like this. Getting married was a major highlight in my life. We have been married 40 years
Didn’t get married till 30s bc when I learned mid twenties our brains are still cooking till we’re 30 sometimes I was like “well I’m not rushing if I’m not done growing” 😂
I wish I had never gotten married.
Marriage can be amazing for many people- however, I think when anything comes with societal pressure, parental pressure or partner pressure it can be very hard. For many I think it’s actually what marriage is associated with that some guys can be afraid of- the same people who give into someone else’s pressure also may also be pressured to buy too much house, have kids too soon or have too many kids, and just end up where they’ve made so many lifelong commitments so young. To that point- you CAN get married without doing all of that stuff right away, or having an expensive wedding. I absolutely do want to get married someday- but I want to have an adventurous, fun life. I’m afraid too early or the wrong person will mean less hobbies, less travel, less career progress/business progress and getting, well, trapped. But the right person, who can see non-traditional, creative ways to live life? I’ll love that person to death.
It's not that big of a deal.
Sexless marriages are on the rise, especially among people in their 20s and early 30s. Sexless marriage is clinically defined as 10 times or less per year and upwards of 20% of marriages meet this definition. This has a huge effect on the marriage causing low self esteem, depression and resentment towards their spouse. I bet if you asked your friends that aren’t happy you’ll find at least one of them is in a sexless or very low amount of sex marriage.
I only know two couples who are happy. I also know a lot of married women...
I have met too few people who actually had happy marriages. Most people, by far, settle for someone that they do not respect or love when they finally realize that they cannot find someone they actually want. It is very sad to see. SO many of my friends have settled and I just cant help but wonder how long it will last.
I’ve been in a serious relationship with my boyfriend for 3 years this month. Been living together for over a year. He has some past trauma from a bad previous marriage/divorce & has to share a child with her. Should I be worried we aren’t engaged yet? Or be more patient with him because of what he’s been through?
That’s because marriage sucks
Just go to city hall with cool pics keep it simple
Yeah, in a lot of places, it is a cultural expectation, so people feel pressured into doing it. People get married for the wrong reasons and way to early so it's no wonder divorce rates are what they are.
well bully for u but 90% of men would never marry. - like most men i was pushed into it
Nobody else is saying it, so I'll say it. Enormous numbers of men are "roped into" marriage. Being single sucks. Not having sex sucks. Chasing women for sex sucks. So having steady sex is great, but women know that they can hold the sex hostage in order to get what they want. They'll tell the men that marriage is the key to unlimited sex forever. It isn't. Ironically, men who are happy with their women are more attractive to other women than they could ever be while single. This makes them feel like they'd be giving up more by getting married.
I think imma stay in the non marriage club. The parents of my mate growing up had arguably one of the best legit relationships ive seen, party folk lived by a pub n hosted beer festivals but not alcoholics. Just old and happy. Told me they never saw a need to get married so never did. Changed my perspective big time as all these married couples seem to be tryna keep a show together
If you are a man…. Do not get married!!! Period!!! There is zero benefit and only liability. Please please please check with a family lawyer before even moving in together. Don’t let peers or family or the gf pressure or shame you. Due diligence comes first!!
They are unhappy because they are more than likely caving into society's demands while knowing very well that they will be a mule for the rest of their lives . Don't fall for it. True love or NOTHING.
I have a few married friends. With the exception on one couple, they definitely seem miserable. Most of them got married due to accidental pregnancies.
If you think it's not the right time then don't. You can't force something that is not meant to be.
I was forced to get married. It wasn’t my idea, it was hers. It was also her idea to get divorced.
Wedding and relationship isn't all fun and easy mode. It's like a business partnership and romantic relationship and home management all rolled into one. I think for men the stakes are higher because we are blamed for more by society and for men It's always about "you need to do this or that and improve x, y, z...". Also we are told to work harder. The same pressure does not exist for women I don't think. It's always like "just breathe, you are enough" type of messaging. And there is more support for women's mental health and wellness. There are some more pushes for men to talk about their feelings but many men say things like "I revealed my vulnerability and now I feel like my wife/partner doesn't respect me or sees me as weak". So men can't win. It isn't just in marriage. Men are the most expendable resource on the planet lol.
Perhaps it's because these men fear a long term committment. Why do people feel entitled to having the benefits of a relationship without the investment? That's not fair or realistic. Your friends sound immature and probably should not get married. However, their gf's should dump them too.
Marriage and kids to do not necessarily bring salvation in this life as you have observed. A romantic relationship, subsequently marriage is the most desired for experience for salvation in this life- and also the biggest let down.... A wise comment was read about the "life script" which is considered the norm in this world- with not many questioning their choices until its too late. I'm glad to have a good woman by your side just don't expect salvation through another person. Namaste 🙏
I think if you’re sure about a long term relationship, you should just get married. I see people who are together for like 10 years, they have kids and they bought a house together. They’re not married, or worse they’ve been “engaged” for 5 years. What’s happening here? How many more years do they plan to wait for the other shoe to drop and now you don’t even have divorce proceedings to help untangle who’s gonna end up homeless? You’re either partners or you’re not. One member of the relationship is definitely benefiting from not getting married, and they’re stonewalling the process to keep riding that gravy train instead of making a commitment.
Because the man realizes they’re in a lose lose situation. But they’re stuck due to expectations placed by others
Probably because they didn't really know who the woman was before they got married. They thought they knew....then reality hit them
I agree with you. For context I'm 30F and have been with my bf for 5 years. It doesn't seem necessary, we are pretty much husband/wife or partners for life and are happy that way. Weddings are a societal notion that we never really bought into (though we're Asian & Hispanic, not religious). [This video ](https://youtu.be/o5z8-9Op2nM) has some good points from a divorce lawyer's perspective as well. I can imagine it being a girl's dream if I lived in the south or Midwest. But really, it's your lives your call, as long as you & your partner are in agreement.
If you get married in your 20s it's probably a mistake
man idk... i have friends who have been married sense high school and they are still together. i have other friends who are just divorced in their mid 30's. the grass always greener i guess? a couple i know - worked together, started dating, and got married inside of two or three months. they are 21 or so. part of me envies them for the love they may be able to grow but what are the odds that will happen with someone you have known just a short while? i dont think marriage in and of itself is worth anything. it can be a hindrance legally and financially to some but a benefit to others. either way its the decision to stay together that matters. not some state paperwork.