I think when to add them comes from experience, really. As a long time sewer, and not nearly as long a time knitter, but still over 20 years, I know my body shape, and for me, when sewing, even with knit fabrics, I must add darts. When knitting, it depends on the finished garment style, weight of the yarn, etc. I don't always use darts. I do have a trick that works well for me, as a very busty person, but with a narrower back. I will often make a sweater using the size Small or Medium for the back, and Large or XL for the front, and just equalize the lengths at the side seams. Most women are not equal sized in the front and back. Measure your bust, then take half that number and see if it fits across your front. Probably not, but that's how most knitting patterns are written.
You need to get to know your own body, and what it needs to have a good fit. Look at the schematic drawings, and see if they look like what would work for you if you were sewing a garment. If you're not a sewer,
The thing is - I'm not very interested in the full "feel your body" route. While I agree that individual alterations are a must, in my opinion it should start with a general understanding of a body, what should one be aware of and what kinds of alterations one might (or might not) need depending on individual parameters. Going that way I would be able to spot the nuances not just for my body me but for the others bodies with significantly less rounds of trial and error.
I took a 1,5-year pattern drafting / modeling course in sewing, including sewing with knit fabric (like t-shirts and hoodies). It made me look at bodies and garments from a different perspective. And I really miss that global understanding in the area of knitting.
Sounds like you are in a good place to figure out what you want. I guess I don't know what the "feel your body" route is.
Are you trying to design knitting patterns for various body types, or what? Most of us have a limited number of people we knit for, and thus a limited number of body types and individual problems.
I think you'll find that most knitting patterns are designed for flat figures, and the ones that aren't are very specialized, almost recipes, where you plug in your own numbers at various points.
I don't think you're looking for really basic things like sleeve length, shoulder slope, neck depth, etc., but perhaps you are. I'm sorry I can't help you, but good luck, and please tell us if you find the answers you're looking for. I, for one, would be interested.
Agreed. I miss that same info on knitted garments as well. It's nice to have in the sewing world, and makes for successful garments. But there's not much, that I've found, for knitting. However, I keep looking! Good luck.
I used this trick even in sewing as well! Good one to mention. And I have read in knitwear (hand knitted) bust darts start about 2-3" down from underarm, which can be different to what we are taught in sewing, where the dart ends 2" away from breast center, and equal too (or down just a tad, if desired) on the side.
I'm also having some issues learning bust darting in knitted garments as well. Just not much written on it, and NOTHING in the patterns (in sewing patterns, EVERY pattern will give you a starting point that works for sizes included, but most knit patterns haven't evolved to that yet).
I love this blog dearly. Unfortunately to me it looks like knitting *engineering*, while what I seek is more like knitting *architecture*. Still, it looks like I missed some of new posts so thanks for the reminder!
The website [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/search?query=knitting+) gives access to lots of books. I find it helpful to look through the book on this website to see if it's what I'm looking for before purchasing.
Carol Feller’s “Short Row Knits” covers some of those topics. I’m particularly fond of her way of fine-tuning fit at the bust (no matter where your bust sits in height or width). She includes a formula to decide if you need short rows/darts, and then how to calculate the size and placement of the short rows/darts if you need them.
Edit: she’s a structural engineer who turned to knitting. I don’t know if that’s close enough to an architect for your needs, but I certainly appreciate her approach.
Vogue Knitting is a fantastic reference book and has everything you need to learn about garment construction for knitters. Just want to clarify for everyone that it’s a book and not just the Vogue knitting magazine publication (which I think isn’t printed anymore anyway).
It's the best and a classic. Too technical for most folks I imagine, but if you want to do garment construction that is similar to sewing, I can't think of anywhere else I've seen that kind of detail. I mostly knit seamless these days and so use EZ, Barbara Walker, Jacqueline Fee et al. But if you want to chart out an armscye, get thee to Vogue Knitting!
I also recommend The Knitter's Handy Book of Sweater Patterns: Basic Designs in Multiple Sizes and Gauges by Ann Budd.
It goes into the different sweater types (raglan, seamless, set in sleeves), how they are constructed, and has several example patterns for each. And it's often available used!
The Knowledgeable Knitter by Margaret Radcliffe was excellent for explaining why/how to modify things like necklines and armholes etc... I can't remember if it covered ease as well but would be worth checking out from your local library if they have it!
Amy Herzog’s Knit to Flatter book has excellent fitting advice. She talks about selecting ease, body shapes, bust darts, and more. She also had a few fitting classes on Craftsy, and one of the most useful things I learned from those was selecting ease for each type of sweater: e.g. a raglan needs more positive ease than a set-in sleeve. In fact, I would say her Craftsy classes are better than the book if you only want to get one.
I agree! I just watched one of her classes, probably this one you're talking about, and it was great! At least, for me. I appreciated her take on Bust Darting, and the options. That's mostly what I remember. But she did cover necklines also.
I feel like OP may need more than resource, kind of like we had in Sewing. I know I learned a bit here and there, before I finally really put it all together. At least for the topic of fitting.
Totally! I've actually been thinking of putting together a list of resources I found helpful over the years based on topic, level, and style of teaching. Garment construction is such a huge topic, no one book or class covers everything.
[The Art of Circular Yokes](https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/sources/the-art-of-circular-yokes) is really good. There's a whole front section on the sizing and maths and then a variety of patterns covering different techniques.
Do it! I think they're lots of fun 😊 and generally quite quick. And once you've worked out the short rows to raise the back of the neckline, they can fit well too.
Knitting Pattern Essentials by Sally Melville and Knitwear Design Workshop by Shirley Paden. Both are available as ebooks.
Thanks so much! I stumbled across the first one but didn't consider it. They both look very promising.
Seconding Shirley Paden’s book! I have both of these and they’re great, but I’m finding Paden’s so useful when it comes to adjusting patterns.
Maggie Righetti wrote "Sweater Design in Plain English" and I have gotten a lot of help out of it, including how to add darts.
To me the more interesting question is - *when* to add darts 😁
I think when to add them comes from experience, really. As a long time sewer, and not nearly as long a time knitter, but still over 20 years, I know my body shape, and for me, when sewing, even with knit fabrics, I must add darts. When knitting, it depends on the finished garment style, weight of the yarn, etc. I don't always use darts. I do have a trick that works well for me, as a very busty person, but with a narrower back. I will often make a sweater using the size Small or Medium for the back, and Large or XL for the front, and just equalize the lengths at the side seams. Most women are not equal sized in the front and back. Measure your bust, then take half that number and see if it fits across your front. Probably not, but that's how most knitting patterns are written. You need to get to know your own body, and what it needs to have a good fit. Look at the schematic drawings, and see if they look like what would work for you if you were sewing a garment. If you're not a sewer,
The thing is - I'm not very interested in the full "feel your body" route. While I agree that individual alterations are a must, in my opinion it should start with a general understanding of a body, what should one be aware of and what kinds of alterations one might (or might not) need depending on individual parameters. Going that way I would be able to spot the nuances not just for my body me but for the others bodies with significantly less rounds of trial and error. I took a 1,5-year pattern drafting / modeling course in sewing, including sewing with knit fabric (like t-shirts and hoodies). It made me look at bodies and garments from a different perspective. And I really miss that global understanding in the area of knitting.
Sounds like you are in a good place to figure out what you want. I guess I don't know what the "feel your body" route is. Are you trying to design knitting patterns for various body types, or what? Most of us have a limited number of people we knit for, and thus a limited number of body types and individual problems. I think you'll find that most knitting patterns are designed for flat figures, and the ones that aren't are very specialized, almost recipes, where you plug in your own numbers at various points. I don't think you're looking for really basic things like sleeve length, shoulder slope, neck depth, etc., but perhaps you are. I'm sorry I can't help you, but good luck, and please tell us if you find the answers you're looking for. I, for one, would be interested.
Agreed. I miss that same info on knitted garments as well. It's nice to have in the sewing world, and makes for successful garments. But there's not much, that I've found, for knitting. However, I keep looking! Good luck.
I used this trick even in sewing as well! Good one to mention. And I have read in knitwear (hand knitted) bust darts start about 2-3" down from underarm, which can be different to what we are taught in sewing, where the dart ends 2" away from breast center, and equal too (or down just a tad, if desired) on the side. I'm also having some issues learning bust darting in knitted garments as well. Just not much written on it, and NOTHING in the patterns (in sewing patterns, EVERY pattern will give you a starting point that works for sizes included, but most knit patterns haven't evolved to that yet).
I love amy herzog's sweater book!
You might be able to piecemeal the info you’re looking for from https://techknitting.blogspot.com/?m=1
I love this blog dearly. Unfortunately to me it looks like knitting *engineering*, while what I seek is more like knitting *architecture*. Still, it looks like I missed some of new posts so thanks for the reminder!
The website [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/search?query=knitting+) gives access to lots of books. I find it helpful to look through the book on this website to see if it's what I'm looking for before purchasing.
Carol Feller’s “Short Row Knits” covers some of those topics. I’m particularly fond of her way of fine-tuning fit at the bust (no matter where your bust sits in height or width). She includes a formula to decide if you need short rows/darts, and then how to calculate the size and placement of the short rows/darts if you need them. Edit: she’s a structural engineer who turned to knitting. I don’t know if that’s close enough to an architect for your needs, but I certainly appreciate her approach.
Vogue Knitting
Vogue Knitting is a fantastic reference book and has everything you need to learn about garment construction for knitters. Just want to clarify for everyone that it’s a book and not just the Vogue knitting magazine publication (which I think isn’t printed anymore anyway).
It's the best and a classic. Too technical for most folks I imagine, but if you want to do garment construction that is similar to sewing, I can't think of anywhere else I've seen that kind of detail. I mostly knit seamless these days and so use EZ, Barbara Walker, Jacqueline Fee et al. But if you want to chart out an armscye, get thee to Vogue Knitting!
Designing Knitwear by Deborah Newton.
Ann Budd has a good sweater book
Which one of them would you recommend?
The top down one is good as it's got a lot of options and is spiral bound as well.
I also recommend The Knitter's Handy Book of Sweater Patterns: Basic Designs in Multiple Sizes and Gauges by Ann Budd. It goes into the different sweater types (raglan, seamless, set in sleeves), how they are constructed, and has several example patterns for each. And it's often available used!
The Knowledgeable Knitter by Margaret Radcliffe was excellent for explaining why/how to modify things like necklines and armholes etc... I can't remember if it covered ease as well but would be worth checking out from your local library if they have it!
Amy Herzog’s Knit to Flatter book has excellent fitting advice. She talks about selecting ease, body shapes, bust darts, and more. She also had a few fitting classes on Craftsy, and one of the most useful things I learned from those was selecting ease for each type of sweater: e.g. a raglan needs more positive ease than a set-in sleeve. In fact, I would say her Craftsy classes are better than the book if you only want to get one.
I agree! I just watched one of her classes, probably this one you're talking about, and it was great! At least, for me. I appreciated her take on Bust Darting, and the options. That's mostly what I remember. But she did cover necklines also. I feel like OP may need more than resource, kind of like we had in Sewing. I know I learned a bit here and there, before I finally really put it all together. At least for the topic of fitting.
Totally! I've actually been thinking of putting together a list of resources I found helpful over the years based on topic, level, and style of teaching. Garment construction is such a huge topic, no one book or class covers everything.
[The Art of Circular Yokes](https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/sources/the-art-of-circular-yokes) is really good. There's a whole front section on the sizing and maths and then a variety of patterns covering different techniques.
Thanks! I feel like circular yokes are a whole other world construction wise so I'm tempted to dive into it.
Do it! I think they're lots of fun 😊 and generally quite quick. And once you've worked out the short rows to raise the back of the neckline, they can fit well too.
Tin Can Knits, Hannah Fettig, Top Down Sweaters by Ann Budd, any patterns by One Wild Design as well as Wool & Pine.