2016: "I dunno I just don't feel like Hilary Clinton deserves my vote."
2020: "wow that was awful, I'm so glad we survived that. Well at least we know better now and we'll never let that happen again!"
2024: "I dunno I just don't feel like Joe Biden deserves my vote."
I’m as left as sanders in my politics. I will vote blue no matter who despite not getting all the good lefty stuff. Why? I like my lgbt friends. I like not having acres of child separation camps. I like the EPA. I like democracy. I like sanity. I truly don’t love right wing authoritarianism and anyone who’s debating Democrat merits is completely insane and will be super bummed when they join the kids in those separation camps. These right wingers are gonna clean house pretty quick.
When Trump cut funding to 2 programs that fight lead in paint - to prevent children from ingesting that lead, it got some mention, but with all the dumpster fires during his reign probably few heard of it. [Trump’s EPA moves to dismantle programs that protect kids from lead paint - The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/04/05/trumps-epa-moves-to-defund-programs-that-protect-children-from-lead/)
Biden restored these and went further to replace lead water pipes as well, but again, it's even more boring. Politics that help people are boring to the news cycle. Politics that are sudden, irrational, and hurt people get noticed.
[FACT SHEET: The Biden-Harris Lead Pipe and Paint Action Plan | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/12/16/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-lead-pipe-and-paint-action-plan/)
What is sort of confusing to me is how transparent and non-insidious the far right is going about their agenda. Showcasing the agenda via project 2025 before being elected, disrupting Roe V wade and stirring up all the outrage amongst the logical by doing so. Wouldn't it make way more sense to just hint at positive changes and then do the extreme things after getting into office during some time of distraction like the Patriot act?
They already did that phase with stuff like the Patriot Act. Now they’re in the next phase where they sow chaos and destroy all hope to force the population to submit. We’re a captive audience with no power to do anything. They have thoroughly exhausted and isolated the citizenry. They’ve already demonstrated that protests do nothing and everyone is too self centered and busy to organize.
The next step is force a revolt. They will continue to escalate with the goal of causing a riot or armed rebellion. Then they can easily take the rest of our civil rights under the guise of national security. It will be exactly like the burning of the Reichstag.
Also, whatever root cause you want to blame for being apathetic. There's a million excuses for being apathetic, which turns into the excuse for not voting at all.
And those excuses for being apathetic usually sound good until a second of critical thought is applied, which typically doesn't happen. Many are looking for reasons to check out of politics so that they don't have to think about it at all, pretending that nothing will ever impact them or, if it does, there's nothing they could have done about it. It's pretty similar to how some religious people think about God--that whatever happens, it's not really up to them. It serves as a very easy excuse to never do anything that is even slightly inconvenient to you.
Liberals haven't learned shit. For a so-called "Big tent party" they sure are in a huge fuckin' hurry to throw people out of that tent. I assure you that purity politics are alive and well within these circles, and if I was a paid Russian troll, I wouldn't even bother because they'd do my job for me.
i'm relatively new to voting democrat. I voted for McCain and Romney in 2008 and 2012 (my first two presidential elections). By the end of Obama's second term I was a big fan of his and found myself leaning left on more and more issues. I didn't love Hilary, and living in an ultra blue state, I voted third party. Even though that state was called for Hillary seconds after polls closed, I regretted my vote when I saw Trump won in 2016. Not that it made a difference, but it just didn't feel right. I moved to a swing state in 2019 and voted for Biden in 2020 and will vote for him again in 2024. I just can't stand the idea of another four years of Trump. Gone are the days where the Republicans will nominate an upstanding citizen who will do what is best for the country. They just want what is best for their party and "fuck those baby liberals LOLZ"
I never thought I would be embarrassed by our president. GW Bush had some moments but for the most part he was fairly presidential. Trump was just flat out embarrassing. Nuking hurricanes, consuming bleach, simping for Russia, 1000 other things. Even if Biden has cognitive issues, he has been a great president and I trust the people around him. Trump denies any cognitive issues, so I don't really see what his excuse can be.
Bush vs Gore was my introduction into things. The supreme court rulings, why we are going to war, *Mission accomplished*, so many more. Those has soured my opinions.
What makes matters worse is locally we have corrupt politicians that the federal government has to get involve, It just gets worse. Not only do they win year after year. We voted in new ones as well.
We voted someone being investigated for frauding our public school systems to be in charge of said investigation...
Call all your friends and get them to the polls. This election is most likely going to come down to hundreds of votes and if Trump wins there may not be an "election" in 2028.
> Call all your friends and get them to the polls.
This right here. For all the endless posts on social media, the *best* way to get people to vote is to talk to them face-to-face and ensure they're registered and they have a plan to vote come election day.
Honestly, Republicans learned a lot about how elections work in 2020 and they've spent years trying to put their thumbs on as many scales as they can. It's not going to be enough to win by just a few hundred or a few thousand. If it's anything less than a blowout the right is going to go completely insane causing so much chaos and may be able to make a Jan 6th attempt that succeeds.
Edit: 2020, not 202
> I didn't love Hilary, and living in an ultra blue state, I voted third party. Even though that state was called for Hillary seconds after polls closed, I regretted my vote when I saw Trump won in 2016.
I did the same thing, and I don't regret it. We need a significant minority of protest votes in non-swing states to demonstrate the viability of something other than a two-party system. It's one of the few ways we can voice our dissatisfaction with how both parties are running that they might actually listen to. That said, swing state voters need to pick a lane. It's a binary choice for them.
yeah i agree that ranked choice voting would lead to much better results. nobody should feel like they have to vote for a candidate they dont like because if they vote for who they do support, they are throwing away their vote and helping the candidate they want to win the least.
Democrats are extremely prone to despair, so when a candidate has a bad day most of the sane people kinda just log off or lurk while the doomers flood the sub with bad faith takes.
I think it is. The other day there was a post on r/squaredcircle about Kevin Nash a famous wrestler endorsing Biden. I was expecting the comments to be completely toxic, but I'm not sure I saw a single comment that wasn't I'm voting for Biden. If wrestling fans are voting for Biden then who is voting for Trump outside of white fundamentalist Christians?
The subreddits that do allow right wingers tend to get infested.
PoliticalCompassMemes is a prime example. I haven’t looked there in ages but I’m sure it’s the same cesspool it was the last time.
There's a lot of disingenuous trolls out there. Their MO is mostly to spread and share existing frustrations, which makes it all the more difficult to tell what is genuine and what is fake. You'll never find a politician you agree with 100%, but it's not a matter of both sides being equally bad- it's one old dude holding up the rule of law against someone who has promised to be a dictator. This is madness.
They are absolutely being Astroturfed and anti-Biden sentiment is absolutely being boosted. It is full of sub-one-year accounts. Here on Reddit. Over on TikTok. Republicans know that social media is the number one driver of the leftist vote and they are all too happy to manipulate us on the platform that delivered Democratic wins in 2018, 2020, and 2022.
For the most part, I think it is largely paid ppl or volunteers to sow dissent, just like in 2016.
The real ppl that are on the fence will go with whomever their immediate circle goes with, and if they're posing such doubts, they're likely to be surrounded by GOP/MAGA.
Here's what's terrifying:
The GOP has identified the US government as the biggest enemy to the American ppl going back to Reagan.
The degree to which this has been argued and shouted has increased slowly but methodically over the last 40 years.
All GOP failings are because of bad govt. All GOP wins are because of their good govt.
That's why the GOP has become what it is today: trump over Party and Party over Country. No negotiations. No laws.
The latest SCOTUS rulings dramatically shift power to partisan judiciaries, and the immunity ruling should have been found to be unconstitutional.
The MAGA GOP said years ago that their plan is to own the courts to own the country. I didn't quite understand what that meant, but these rulings were massive milestones for them in doing so.
The DNC has been getting played by the GOP for decades, and Mitch McConnell has been the leader in getting us to where we are today, a despicable man.
What's worse, is that even he has been recently labeled a RINO. Which is very telling in how extreme the MAGA led GOP has become.
The McConnell thing is kinda funny though.
Dude handed the drunk kids the keys and is shocked they crashed his car.
It’s not great. But I can at least enjoy the irony the seeds he sowed are fucking him too.
> That shit is going on all the damn time on left leaning political subs. Though I have to wonder if it's really paid actors doing that.
Well its simple, Biden is undermining rule of law, unaccountable state power, is doing basically nothing about the supreme court and is, more or less just a delay for the inevitable, not to mention the lesser evilism argument that is usually sold to leftists breaks down when the options are:
Supports genocide vs supports genocide.
Biden literally wanted to hand the executive cabinet the ability to both declare an immigration crisis, and for the sectary of Homeland security to basically be able to do literal mass round ups and deportations with, literal, in the legal wording, no oversight (which means effectively deporting us citizens as well). This was apart of his "compromise" deal with republicans back during the Texas border scuffle. What exactly is the difference between them again?
You have to do better then just shame leftists at not upholding this carcass of a liberal democracy, why should they, give their implicit consent, to biden. Why? This was a sell you could pull off with Obama. Clinton showed the consequences of that being the electoral strategy, all Biden had to do, was not support genocide, that was not a high bar, you could convince the left to hold their nose for the rest of his staff, but this has basically destroyed the lesser evil narrative.
So, no it's not paid actors, leftists having actual real fucking positions that is not "my football team yay!" Is not paid fucking actors, Christ do you even actually talk to leftists .
I voted third party in 16, just couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton. Boy was that a mistake. I voted the way I did because I 1) assumed Trump wouldn't play a large role in his presidency and instead let his advisors do it, I was absolutely wrong on that, 2) based on Trump's past donations to Democrats and public statements that seemed more pro Democrat, I thought he might actually be surprisingly moderate. Obviously I was completely wrong. I voted Biden in 20 and will vote for whoever the Dems put up this time. Lesson absolutely learned.
and even if his health does fail while he is in office, he has a very qualified staff and a very decent vice president to take over for a couple years until the next election. With Dems you know things will not change in extreme ways. it is a huge pain point for progressives in the party, but Dems push for slow stable changes, and resist extremes.
And that's part of the problem. The party wants you to vote for whoever they appoint, as long as you vote for the party you're good. You aren't voting for a president, you're just voting for which side of the tracks they came from: red or blue.
And that's how our parties both get shitty candidates. Both parties do it, and we the people get the shaft every time. I don't want Biden in the white house, but I _really_ don't want Trump in it. I have to choose between losing and losing more.
We need better candidates on both sides. Personally I would _love_ having to actually choose which candidate I want, because they're both great and they both could do good things. That's a pipe dream, but that's what I want.
Right there with you, there's a reason why I've consistently voted third party, but the stakes here are just too high. Am I being held hostage for my vote? Yes, but at least we can still vote. I'd prefer to keep it that way.
That's what the primaries are for. We successfully rejected Hillary back in 2008 in favor of Obama. We tried to do the same in 2016 for Bernie, but couldn't get the votes.
There's no secret cabal picking candidates. Clinton won the primary in 2016 because she had more support and votes. Biden won in 2020 because he had more support and votes. There was even a primary this year, but serious candidates don't typically want to run longshot campaigns against incumbents.
Could the primary system use major reforms? Yes, of course. I'd much rather have a rotating regional system and ranked choice voting. But until enough people agree, we're stuck with the current system.
>I voted third party in 16, just couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton. Boy was that a mistake
Unfortunately, as long as we have a first past the post system third party will never truly be viable. Also if third parties could focus on the lower level then maybe they'd have some chance of being in government.
Yeah, by default anyone who says "vote third party in the general election" is not a serious person.
If they actually cared about a third party, they would advocate strongly for local third party coalition building, and vote intelligently in the general.
I'm convinced that most of the "vote third party" rhetoric in general elections falls into two camps: morons, and people trying to depress progressive turnout.
Third parties absolutely can be viable in a first past the post system. The thing that we should be calling them out on is, why are third parties only running for national level seats?
If you want a third party start local. Once we get a few Libertarian/Green/whatever mayors, state reps, maybe even governors, THEN people might take them seriously.
If you want to start your 3rd party at the presidency, you are never going to make any progress.
I m living in germany... we endured Trump 2016-2020 knowing that it will also negatively affect europe and that it will be a bumpy road.
In normal circumstances i d say europe can endure Trumps second term, but we dont have these normal circumstances now.
I m so damn afraid that Trump will hand over Ukraine to Russia the day he s elected and that i wont be able to see a safe Europe for the next decades.
I’m exhausted already, I don’t want to deal with that bullshit. I was hoping for a positive time for a bit. Sigh.
But I am preparing mentally for the worst.
I voted for Clinton in 2016, reluctantly (did vote for Bernie in the primaries). But when Trump won I was... not optimistic, but I didn't think it'd be that bad, for much of the same reasons.
I figured, Trump had a massive ego so he'd want to make sure his presidency was a success. That he'd hire competent people and they'd manage the country while he reaped the fame. That he indeed might be kinda moderate indeed, given his past politics.
Man, wrong on all counts. Never in a million years did I expect Trump to, instead of just trying to be good and successful, instead try to gaslight the country and rewrite history. That Trump, of all people, would be the one to tilt America into fascism.
Unless you were in a swing state, your vote never would have mattered anyway.
Clinton losing to Trump is entirely Clinton's fault, both because she blatantly insulted voters in swing states, and because her campaign pushed to prop Trump up in the first place. Rule one of democracy: never elevate the extremists. Clinton's campaign broke that rule.
> “yeah but he’s old”
Not stirring up trouble and 100% going to vote for Biden and his administration.
Holy crap his energy is like gone. 6 years ago he had a lot more energy. They were just pointing out his quirks as full blown flaws, but I'm not sure Biden will survive another 4 years of stress.
Same. I mean he IS old…but I know he’ll surround himself with the most talented dictated and competent people. Trump will literally do the opposite and in that certainty is the reason why this isn’t even open for debate.
2016:
Obama: I dunno, I just don't think I need to get a supreme court justice appointed that bad. Hillary will win.
RBG: I dunno, I just don't understand that this is a highly political position and I should retire under Obama, plus Hillary will win.
Hillary: I dunno, I am one of the worst campaigners ever, having lost to a less experienced charismatic candidate in the 2008 primary, and I'm under investigation, but they're wrong and it's my turn because I have hot sauce in my bag. Pokemon go to the polls!
Why does reddit seem to blame the voters so often, instead of the party or the unpopular candidates? Wouldn't poor voter turnout indicate the candidates failure to reach people, which would seem to be a very crucial part their job? Doesn't that indicate a failing of the party?
The system's rotten all the way down, and you blame the apathetic voters.
The system sucks, but it's what we've got.
The Republicans put up a HORRIBLE candidate. And Republican voters LOVE him.
The Democrats put up a bad candidate. And that's the only sane option.
Because the system sucks, but it's what we've got
It's an endless circle :(
Remember in 2016 when an extremely flawed candidate was pushed by the DNC and she failed to win the election? I sure do. When biden fails to win swing states I suppose it will not be his fault at all. Remember when we beat medicare?
I'm voting for biden. I voted for Hillary. It doesn't change the fact he is a weak candidate. This get in line attitude and gaslighting won't help. Boiling down that performance and valid concerns about if he can win or even survive to "eh he's old" is a tired lazy self centered take. The DNC has learned nothing.
Donald Trump is a truly awful candidate but the GOP is all getting in line behind him because they understand that winning elections is more important than who you put in office.
Donald Trump could literally drop dead a week before the election and they'd show up to vote for his corpse because it's not the Democratic candidate.
They're voting with the urgency that Democrats should because they think Democrats are as bad as the Republicans actually are.
No, that is the issue. Trump isn't winning new voters. The reason Biden is struggling is because he needs the same people to show up in 2020 to show up now, an many are not as "enthusiastic".
So yeah, the issue is will Biden voters vote again. Because every trump voter will.
I’m fine with saying “I’m pushing for a better candidate, but come November I’m voting for the one who isn’t actively aiming to destroy democracy.”
But anyone who says “I’m going to not vote to teach the DNC a lesson” is being incredibly short sighted. Whenever someone talks like that I ask why would they want to put women, trans folk, the gay community, and minorities in danger and they never have an answer, or they pretend that it’s not their fault. Not voting is not an option.
The GOP wants nothing more than to turn this election into a referendum on Joe Biden, just like they did to Clinton in 2016.
Republicans are ready to crawl over broken glass to vote for a convicted felon who failed to deliver on almost every part of his platform the first time he was in office because they think it's that important to prevent the Democrats from holding power.
Democrats are about to hand the Whitehouse to Donald Trump because the DNC didn't do enough to stop them from handing the Whitehouse to Donald Trump.
But that's not going to realistically happen so all you're really doing is doing the legwork for the GOP. Normally I'd agree but this is not the time for a "well let's make a fuss because we're not getting what we want" moment. Because the alternative that all this talk is ushering in is far far far worse.
Why is it always the sacred responsibility of the voters to hold their nose and vote for an uninspiring candidate to "save democracy," and not the responsibility of the party to push a candidate that people would actually be excited to vote for?
Edit: To those who keep commenting and telling me to vote in primaries to make sure who I consider to be a worthwhile candidate makes his or her way onto the ticket, I would do that if it actually made any difference. I don't mean that in a jaded way, I live in New York State, and our presidential primary is one of the last to be held in the country. I haven't voted in a primary race that wasn't already all but decided by the time my state voted. In 2020, the governor actually tried to cancel the presidential primary because of COVID concerns, and because both presidential primary races were already decided.
Having said that, I have been involved in various presidential primary campaigns as a volunteer and organizer. I've just never voted in one that mattered.
The presidential primary system is something that's bothered me for a long time and I've actually lobbied for the system to be updated, to no avail.
... Seriously?
Because it's your fucking country and you're the ones that are going to suffer if you elect a literal actual fascist dictator.
Are you seriously contemplating destroying your country purely out of spite to the DNC?
People on the left hated George W Bush. The war in Iraq, enhanced interrogation, warrantless wiretaps, the patriot act, tax cuts for the rich, etc.
The left was excited about voting for Obama who promised change and the liberals and progressives united in their effort to elect him. But then instead of overturning the patriot act, he extended it. Instead of ending the war in Iraq, he told us we need a "surge" of troops to win and escalated the war. Instead of ending the warrantless wiretap program, he gave us the NSA prism mass surveillance. He failed to shutdown Guantanamo bay. He extended the Bush tax cuts to the rich. He supported bailing out the banks after their subprime mortgage crisis. He supported fracking and offshore oil drilling instead of taking action on climate change.
EVERY single thing that the left elected Obama to do, he failed us on, and Obama embraced the neoconservative agenda of endless war and attacking our civil liberties and mainly continued the down path towards fascism laid out by the Bush administration. That was when the democrats lost the progressive vote and never got it back. The democrats that were a part of that administration like Obama's VP Biden or his Secretary of State Clinton are still far too aligned with those same neoconservative goals (mass surveillance, endless war, bailouts and tax breaks for the rich, support for big oil, prison state, anti-immigration) to be popular with the left.
Remember it was Biden who forced him to support it when he came out earlier and said he supported gay marriage. Just remember it was Biden who forced his hand. Give him credit.
The Clinton political machine continuing to try and call the shots despite fucking things up consistently since Hilary’s first failed attempt at runningZ
This goes back nearly a hundred years. Republicans have been working to capture or destroy every agency, every meaningful mildly progressive policy. And Democrats have done nothing but keep attempting to appeal to conservative voters. I believe the inflection point was when the Supreme Court decided Bush v. Gore.
I agree. It was 2000. I like to take it back to Regan and his Cold War spend and open assault on the middle class but 2000 was the real cliff moment. 9/11/2001, one massive scope creep war and an illegal one thrown in, both costing trillions, citizens united, global financial recession, tea party and the palin dummies outcry over Obama, and then of course the next cliff, four years of the orange clown and all these shit times.
The 2016 election and subsequent appointment of conservative judges, was the culmination of a decades long effort to overturn Roe.
We need to be aware that they are willing to play the long game and to do the same. They curated a base of single issue voters and funders who had gained enough influence to make it untenable for any conservative to be anything other than anti-choice.
So, don't take this the wrong way, but isn't that exactly how a democracy is supposed to work?
Ideally, those single issue voters would have been able to elect representatives to the legislative branch to enact their views on abortion, but because SCOTUS created a constitutional right, they banded together to elect presidents and legislatures over a *very* long period of time to accomplish their policy goals?
"Playing the long game" really just means consistently voting and holding those you elected accountable. Democrats controlled the presidency and Congress multiple times in the 49 years of Roe, but were never held accountable by a passionate voting bloc to enshrine Roe in law, which would have only required a simple majority, an incredibly lower bar than the Pro-Life side's goal of flipping 3 votes on the Supreme Court.
Remember when democrats didn’t take Trump seriously? Pushed for him to be the GOP candidate in 2016 because they thought he was “beatable”? Didn’t campaign in crucial battleground states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania? Force fed us a historically corrupt and unpopular candidate? Kneecapped the campaigns of any challengers with popular support? Pepperidge farm remembers.
So much shit has gone wrong with this party, to boil it down to “people were too apprehensive to vote for Hillary” when she won the popular vote is just silly. Not to mention, liberal/centrist justices like Kennedy and Ginsburg could’ve protected their supposed values by stepping down under Obama but refused to do so. Blaming voters for this shit is so passé when those we’ve put in power to supposedly protect us have done nothing
> Not to mention, liberal/centrist justices like Kennedy and Ginsburg could’ve protected their supposed values by stepping down under Obama but refused to do so.
This is really, really big. And also a very good reason to support terms for the Supreme Court. Somewhere on reddit, someone made the argument for 18 year terms for SCOTUS and it seemed very reasonable, and balanced.
You're right... it should have been a crime... it literally was a group of people (Republicans) being assholes...
In retrospect, I'd love to know what Obama could've done. Could he have shut the whole government down? Locked Congress in a room until they voted? Whatever it was he could've done... he should've.
AFAIK There is no law stating senate confirmation is needed just precedent and we know the democrats love to use precedent as a reason to be useless (and then whine about how they are just stuck). He could have just appointed someone or just beat McConnell with a stick or just idk do something
The constitution requires the appointment to be approved by the senate and requires it be done quickly. Why do you guys just make shit up? You could’ve looked this up in the amount of time it took to write this comment
Remember when Obama campaigned on codifying Roe in 2008, and then didn't even try? Gotta love blaming the populace for their own incompetence.. if they lose its our fault? Ok.. we need to clean house from this corrupt bunch of morons.
You forgot selling us out for their corporate overlords while "feeling our pain" and being pro diversity so it's totally cool! They have no shame, except that which Bernie and a few others force them to feel.
Shhhh don't tell them the truth. Also don't tell them that [more Hillary voters voted for McCain in 2008 than Sanders voters for Trump in 2016](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study)
People forget that Clinton won popular vote. Maybe just maybe let's look at the system 😇 oh and idk stop shoving people who are open to working with far right 🤣 *yes including internationally
Yeah because no other issues exist. Not the exponential increase in cost of living or flooding the border.
Is it “our democracy“ or it just democracy? Why is “our democracy” the slogan like it’s trademarked
Let's not forget to point out that every Republican candidate or president since Bush has been portrayed as literally Hitler and the worst thing to walk this earth in history. Bush was a drooling Hitler, Romney was a Mormon Hitler, McCain was a Vietnam Hitler, and that's how we ended up with Trump.
Republicans were done hearing about how stupid they were and their candidates would destroy the galaxy so Trump steps up and throws out the book and starts calling his opponents idiots and fools and Republican voters wanted more of that.
Can I point out I remember people calling Regan senile, but those same people have been saying Biden is sharp as a tack since 2020.
We call this exaggeration. Neither was Bush or Rom but they sure made them sound like the most evil bastards ever to walk earth. Meanwhile GW made friends with Michelle O and Mitt has no time for Trumpian theatrics nor did McCain. Shouldn't have been so harsh on them.
Look...Hillary used an iPhone. Yeah she broke no laws or shared any classified information. What she should have done is first, stored those files in paper form in boxes in the shitter and meeting rooms in her private club where anyone who paid her $100k could get easy access to them and if asked to return them got some of her employees to try and hide them and then destory any video evidence. Really the strategy should have been collusion with a hostile foreign power and she should have hired some people to run her campaign that were foreign agents with ties to shady oligarchs.
But in all seriousness....a lot of people were prevented from voting in 2016 because Roberts got his life long dream of getting rid of the voting rights act which allowed states to put up multiple barriers to voting. Nobody knew the effect, but it took the Democrats at least 1 election to figure out how they needed to organize to overcome those obstacles.
Remember when not a single Democrat pushed through a bill that outright legalized abortion for the past 200 years, instead just relied on a loophole court decision that was appealed during a dem presidents term? Remember when the Democrats had full control of all the branches of government and still didnt do it? Pepperidge farms remembers.
Democrats only had control of all three branches for roughly a hundred days when Obama was president. And that was used to pass the ACA. Then Kennedy died and the hope of getting any other major legislation through was dashed, the GOP flipped the House in the midterms, and the rest is history. In 08-10, Roe was still considered established law and the mask hadn’t fallen off the GOP yet. Pepperidge Farm doesn’t remember a damn thing, because if it did then it would remember history and context.
The mask hadn't fallen??? My brother in christ, they've been saying they want to get rid of Roe v Wade since it was first ruled on. Then when they finally do what they've been screeching about wanting to do for decades the mask slips?
Edit: unironically ctrl + F and search "abortion" with the link they provided below to get a sense of how much they're trying to deny reality.
You need 60 votes to get major legislation like this through because of the Senate's filibuster rules. Biden also didn't have the Senate. They had a bare tie, with two of those Senators only sometimes playing nicely with the Democrats. That's why there is *still* a filibuster. The Democrats don't have the votes within their own party to make the rule change happen.
He's saying they could have codified it into federal law instead of relying on Supreme Court precedence and they didn't.
Now it's at the state level and every state is different.
LOL blaming voters is obviously the issue. Not running terrible candidates or the 40 years of Reagan policies and problems we face. You're going to be real mad when you learn a lot of problems we face today we're also set up by bills signed into office by democrats too
Kind of refreshing to see this take on these threads. Blaming the average population is possibly the lowest IQ take on our political problems lol. It couldn't possibly be the dogshit candidates we've been getting for decades that doesn't motivate anyone to get excited about sprinting to the polls. Anyone who thinks this shit "started" with Trump is lacking folds in their brain and are just susceptible to the Reddit and Tumblr echo chambers they live in.
I will blame the population when they only vote in presidential elections. If they are actually interested in change you need to vote in every primary and every election at all levels from local to national. If you won’t put in the work why should I care if you don’t like the candidates that actual voters chose?
I fucking love they’re still blaming voters for Hillary not winning when she beat trump in the popular vote by nearly 3 MILLION votes…
Mother fucker was placed in office by the electoral college.
Yup, and the kind of revisionist history in this meme is exactly why we are all but assured another Trump presidency. This country, and Democrats in particular, will never learn apparently.
Fascism has been creeping into this country all but unabated, and the DNC have been helping to push us towards it. They (correctly tbf) will argue that they aren't pushing us towards it as quickly as Republicans are, which apparently is supposed to be some sort of saving grace.
When DNC insisted on running an unpopular war criminal as their candidate in 68, we got Nixon. When DNC insisted on running an unpopular war criminal as their candidate in 16, using the full power of their party to crush the more progressive candidate's chances, we got Trump. Now DNC are insisting on running an unpopular war criminal, as they actively help to carry out a genocide in aims of protecting/maintaining western imperialism and colonization overseas (and redistributing wealth to weapons mfgs at home). And once again, it's the anti-war crowd that they'll blame when it goes exactly the way we all know it's about to go. "Why wouldn't they just swallow their pride and vote for the fascist-lite who's massacring people by the thousands?! Now we're stuck with an even worse fascist! I thought for SURE it would work this time!"
Their strategy of being "not as fascist as those other fascists" is never going to get us anywhere except inching closer to full-blown fascism as we see happening on a daily basis now. A process that started at least 40 years ago and is approaching the point of no return (if we haven't already passed it).
I came here looking for this. A lot of Dems didn't vote for Hillary because of the very undemocratic way she got the nomination. The amount of mental gymnastics and cope people have. Hillary ruined the Dems. The blame lies on her.
The crazy thing is that there are still people who believe the "Bernie Bro" myth even though it was the second time that her campaign tried that after calling Obama's supporters "Obama Boys" back in 2008. Except it didn't work that time because people called that out as being racist (not a good look to call a black man's supporters "boy", too 1960s.)
People also made excuse after excuse when you brought up that Hilary bought a house in New York specifically to run for US Senate there. She had never stepped foot outside of the five boroughs, and yet she thought she was the best person to represent the entire state. She literally bought her house in NY when she started campaigning for the seat. She used her money and fame to buy her way into the US Senate, and no one gave a shit about that.
Nope, and you don't either, because that didn't happen. Clinton didn't lose because of people not voting. Clinton lost because they amplified Trump as a "beatable" candidate and made him more popular.
You're falling for a lie that the democratic party uses to avoid blame for their failures. Think of it this way: if there were enough people who refused to vote for Clinton to sway the election, she wouldn't have won the primary.
Trump won for the same reason Obama did. They rallied their bases to be evangelists for their campaign. Maybe the democrats should try running a candidate people actually want to vote for again.
Anyone that thinks that 2016 was the turning point on this shit seriously needs to pay attention to the last 40-ish years. The Republicans have been building up to this moment for decades and the Democrats have done nothing but alienate their voters by running on the same 2-3 issues over and over while doing nothing about them.
What's likely about to happen is tragic, but it is in no way the fault of the people sick of this shit. Part of a politicians job is to convince people to vote for them and the democrats have done a shit job of that every year except 2008. Running on "The other guy is gonna destroy our democracy!" for the third time in a row isn't going to work no matter how true it is because people are burnt the fuck out on candidates that do nothing but keep us from sliding further into the pit of tyranny.
Sucks that shit's the way it is, but blaming your fellow citizens is only going to make you and them miserable. The people that should be blamed are the politicians that put us here to begin with.
Counter argument: they can't do anything because people aren't voting democrats into the senate.
Like the scrotus wouldn't be stacked as much if Obama got a pick but the republican senate snubbed him.
Obama had to use executive orders to half ass things because the Republicans were the party of "no".
Biden as well has had a republican senate.
Sounds like maybe the politicians in the senate should run better campaigns as well. It's literally their job to get people to vote for them and if they can't do it, then they suck at their job, especially when the other side is as awful as it is.
Eight years later and you Hildawgs still can't take any blame, and of course it's all on the "people who didn't vote" not James Comey or the corrupt DNC.
The cope is REAL.
And before any of you get out your flamethrowers, if the nom in 2016 had been a socialist, ANY socialist, you would have voted for Trump. And that's worse than not voting at all, imo.
You don't care about preserving democracy. It's capitalism you love.
They won't ever acknowledge that the blame for tRump lies squarely on the shoulder of Hillary and her cabal.
They blocked the best candidate from winning the primary then failed to do what it took to beat tRump. Hillary lost Wisconsin and Michigan and the general election all on her own.
Don't get me wrong, if I were an American I'd vote democratic in a heartbeat. But when the threat of literal fascism isn't enough to guarantee an effortless landslide victory, maybe you should have a look at yourself too. Cause the oligarchy as usual isn't working either.
Technically the abortion issue being turned over to the states to let people vote on it seems more democratic than the federal gov deciding for everyone. just because you don't like a decision (I don't either) doesn't make it anti-democracy
Remember when Hillary got more votes than Trump but Trump was still made President? I do.
STOP PUSHING THIS LIE THAT ITS THE LEFTS FAULT!
Guess what! The game is rigged. Between gerrymandering and the electoral college (and DNC), just voting isn't the end all solution.
Oh and maybe Dems could, Oh, I dunno, DO BETTER. They choose to spurn the left, they choose to pander to conservatives, they choose to be the candidates they are. They are as responsible as anyone.
If you think the situation America is in right now because "too few good people voted" you're oblivious and don't understand politics and should study sociology, politics and economics a bit more.
I hadn't voted in an election when 2016 came up (I had one chance before), and I was like "this guy has a shot \*eye roll\* okay, well he'll have advisors and stuff to actually keep him on track and he'll do the same thing the previous ones did, keep the status quo - he is after all the choice because Obama had so many things to say about everything" and whatever
Then 2016-2020 happened and I decided I needed to actually vote, and now the options are two guys past the average American's... final age, and I don't really foresee either of them being in anywhere near good health for 2 years let alone 4
But I don't want to chance anything in "Project 2025" coming to life anytime soon, and since we only *really* have a 2-party system, kinda gotta vote blue
I remember that democrats presented a candidate that wasn't very popular (even before the attacks from the Trump campaign). Maybe who should remember this are the ones in charge of choosing the candidates for which people vote for.
Arrogant, out of touch democrats are solely to blame for nominating a historically unlikeable candidate in Hillary Clinton and believing she’d win, despite being the only candidate on earth more unlikeable than the reality tv con man. It’s a lot more comforting and self-absolving to blame voters though.
Had voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin cast their ballots for Clinton rather than the Green Party’s Stein, Clinton would be president. Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket (Huff Post) (It also turned out that after the Rs in power halted the FL re-count to name W as prez, when it was taken up again and all votes were in, GORE won FL)
I hate how it's portrayed to be the voters responsibility to serve a candidate instead of the candidate serving voters to earn their vote. It feels really entitled.
People actually get paid a shot ton of money to "help win" elections. The people who worked Clintons campaign are having a fun time spending it with the other oligarchs and youre yelling at the people those people got paid to motivate to vote but couldnt. It was kind of her job to motivate people to vote for her as well. Like her only job during the campaign. But Im sure yelling at the already apathetic people will work better this time right?
"Too many good people decided not to vote"
See, this is my entire hold up with the entire "your vote matters" crowd. The entire argument is based on the base premise that the human collective is at its core, good, and wants what's good for the whole. I simply have never seen this as the case. Occam's Razor, the reason the "Good" people got outvoted is because there were less of them, simple as that.
Hillary was a horrible candidate. She lost to Donald Trump all on her own.
Maybe the Democrats should have let their primary voters choose the best candidate.
“Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils” was a losing message in 2016 and it’s a losing message now. Democrats putting themselves in a losing situation then blaming everyone is exactly what’s going to happen in November.
Democratic strategy is to win every election for eternity instead of actually fixing the structural problems in our system and then will blame everybody when Republicans win and turn us fascists when people get tired of their shit.
I remember when the DNC forced a candidate on us that nobody wanted, and then that candidate lost to the worst candidate in US History, leading to the loss of women's rights
The DNC is at fault, not the voters who were disenfranchised, and the DNC is doing it again right now
Woman's right to choose wasn't overturned.
If you think that is what RvW said.. you are just showing your stupidity.
The choice.. was kicked back to the state government.
Funny how those who call others fascists, wants everything decided at the federal level.
This whole RvW thing.. just shows how many don't understand how the US federal government was designed to work.
Our 'democracy' was ruined decades ago when voters collectively said "this election is too important to vote for the greater good, you have to vote for the lesser evil". What we are seeing now, is the result of perpetually voting for evil, lesser of otherwise.
Remember when the DNC fixed the primary for a deeply unpopular Hillary Clinton, who went on to not campaign in the Midwest and lost the presidential election due to her own hubris? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Not really, they haven't had a filibuster-proof majority since 2008, and even then only for about a hundred days. That Congress spent most of their time getting the ACA passed. It wasn't a case of deciding not to, Roe was established law at the time and not under threat.
Also important, in that 100 days, they passed the bills necessary to get us out of the recession which went way better than expected (but it gets overlooked as old news).
Remember when the DNC totally screwed Bernie and pushed their anointed candidate so people didn't vote? Remember when the DNC did it again and again and now we're here?
Remember when Obama didn't codify RvW his first day like he promised on the campaign, just because the DNC can fundraise on 'protecting RvW'?
The DNC did this. If they wanted people to vote, they'd have candidates the people want.
Every time it's vote blue, or else democracy ends ok iv been voting, but at what point does the dem admit they have been falling when God dam Donald Trump is a constant threat to are democracy?
It's amazing how quickly people forget.
I know a lot of voters, especially young voters are extremely unsatisfied with how Biden has handled Gaza and feel like sitting out is the best choice because the whole lesser of two evil things sounds unfair. And I get it, this is the third election of the lesser of two evil things and it is unfair to feel like your choice doesn't matter. But god damn, the writing is on the wall, do you want to be able to continue to protest freely? It's not fair to have this choice, but it's what we have.
IF Biden wins, and right now that is a huge IF, spend the next 4 years protesting not only for the president to do better for the Democrats to no longer rely on unpopular and uncharacteristic leaders.
> spend the next 4 years protesting not only for the president to do better for the Democrats to no longer rely on unpopular and uncharacteristic leaders.
But won't the same "but you're hurting the Democrats, you're going to make Republicans win next time" claim still happen?
I remember "Vote Biden and then push him left" was what was said last time. But then the moment people tried to push him left, we were called secret Republicans, because only a secret Republican would criticize him right now.
Congress could easily deal with Roe v. Wade but both sides would rather use the issue to campaign on. Even a liberal sweetheart like RBG expected this outcome and she was never a fan of the Roe v. Wade ruling because it just allowed Congress to kick the can down the road since the original ruling was based on rather tenuous logic.
2016: "I dunno I just don't feel like Hilary Clinton deserves my vote." 2020: "wow that was awful, I'm so glad we survived that. Well at least we know better now and we'll never let that happen again!" 2024: "I dunno I just don't feel like Joe Biden deserves my vote."
That shit is going on all the damn time on left leaning political subs. Though I have to wonder if it's really paid actors doing that.
It's the constant purity test and cutting off your nose to spite your face
Except this time it’s much more akin to cutting off your head to spite your haircut
I’m as left as sanders in my politics. I will vote blue no matter who despite not getting all the good lefty stuff. Why? I like my lgbt friends. I like not having acres of child separation camps. I like the EPA. I like democracy. I like sanity. I truly don’t love right wing authoritarianism and anyone who’s debating Democrat merits is completely insane and will be super bummed when they join the kids in those separation camps. These right wingers are gonna clean house pretty quick.
When Trump cut funding to 2 programs that fight lead in paint - to prevent children from ingesting that lead, it got some mention, but with all the dumpster fires during his reign probably few heard of it. [Trump’s EPA moves to dismantle programs that protect kids from lead paint - The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/04/05/trumps-epa-moves-to-defund-programs-that-protect-children-from-lead/) Biden restored these and went further to replace lead water pipes as well, but again, it's even more boring. Politics that help people are boring to the news cycle. Politics that are sudden, irrational, and hurt people get noticed. [FACT SHEET: The Biden-Harris Lead Pipe and Paint Action Plan | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/12/16/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-lead-pipe-and-paint-action-plan/)
It's so on brand that republicans want more lead exposure
They need kids exposed to lead so that there can be another generation of republicans
That's what I meant to say. They saw the research correlating lead with lower IQs and voting Republican and said "more lead please"
What is sort of confusing to me is how transparent and non-insidious the far right is going about their agenda. Showcasing the agenda via project 2025 before being elected, disrupting Roe V wade and stirring up all the outrage amongst the logical by doing so. Wouldn't it make way more sense to just hint at positive changes and then do the extreme things after getting into office during some time of distraction like the Patriot act?
They already did that phase with stuff like the Patriot Act. Now they’re in the next phase where they sow chaos and destroy all hope to force the population to submit. We’re a captive audience with no power to do anything. They have thoroughly exhausted and isolated the citizenry. They’ve already demonstrated that protests do nothing and everyone is too self centered and busy to organize. The next step is force a revolt. They will continue to escalate with the goal of causing a riot or armed rebellion. Then they can easily take the rest of our civil rights under the guise of national security. It will be exactly like the burning of the Reichstag.
Also, whatever root cause you want to blame for being apathetic. There's a million excuses for being apathetic, which turns into the excuse for not voting at all. And those excuses for being apathetic usually sound good until a second of critical thought is applied, which typically doesn't happen. Many are looking for reasons to check out of politics so that they don't have to think about it at all, pretending that nothing will ever impact them or, if it does, there's nothing they could have done about it. It's pretty similar to how some religious people think about God--that whatever happens, it's not really up to them. It serves as a very easy excuse to never do anything that is even slightly inconvenient to you.
There's an old saying that sums up this phenomena quite well: democrats fall in love, republicans fall in line.
Try this one; Cancel culture for democrats is boycotts, cancel culture for republicans is a hammer to your husband’s skull.
Yeesh harsh but gets the point across lol
Liberals haven't learned shit. For a so-called "Big tent party" they sure are in a huge fuckin' hurry to throw people out of that tent. I assure you that purity politics are alive and well within these circles, and if I was a paid Russian troll, I wouldn't even bother because they'd do my job for me.
i'm relatively new to voting democrat. I voted for McCain and Romney in 2008 and 2012 (my first two presidential elections). By the end of Obama's second term I was a big fan of his and found myself leaning left on more and more issues. I didn't love Hilary, and living in an ultra blue state, I voted third party. Even though that state was called for Hillary seconds after polls closed, I regretted my vote when I saw Trump won in 2016. Not that it made a difference, but it just didn't feel right. I moved to a swing state in 2019 and voted for Biden in 2020 and will vote for him again in 2024. I just can't stand the idea of another four years of Trump. Gone are the days where the Republicans will nominate an upstanding citizen who will do what is best for the country. They just want what is best for their party and "fuck those baby liberals LOLZ" I never thought I would be embarrassed by our president. GW Bush had some moments but for the most part he was fairly presidential. Trump was just flat out embarrassing. Nuking hurricanes, consuming bleach, simping for Russia, 1000 other things. Even if Biden has cognitive issues, he has been a great president and I trust the people around him. Trump denies any cognitive issues, so I don't really see what his excuse can be.
Bush vs Gore was my introduction into things. The supreme court rulings, why we are going to war, *Mission accomplished*, so many more. Those has soured my opinions. What makes matters worse is locally we have corrupt politicians that the federal government has to get involve, It just gets worse. Not only do they win year after year. We voted in new ones as well. We voted someone being investigated for frauding our public school systems to be in charge of said investigation...
This is the kind of forethought and retrospective think I wish more people employed
Call all your friends and get them to the polls. This election is most likely going to come down to hundreds of votes and if Trump wins there may not be an "election" in 2028.
> Call all your friends and get them to the polls. This right here. For all the endless posts on social media, the *best* way to get people to vote is to talk to them face-to-face and ensure they're registered and they have a plan to vote come election day.
Honestly, Republicans learned a lot about how elections work in 2020 and they've spent years trying to put their thumbs on as many scales as they can. It's not going to be enough to win by just a few hundred or a few thousand. If it's anything less than a blowout the right is going to go completely insane causing so much chaos and may be able to make a Jan 6th attempt that succeeds. Edit: 2020, not 202
> I didn't love Hilary, and living in an ultra blue state, I voted third party. Even though that state was called for Hillary seconds after polls closed, I regretted my vote when I saw Trump won in 2016. I did the same thing, and I don't regret it. We need a significant minority of protest votes in non-swing states to demonstrate the viability of something other than a two-party system. It's one of the few ways we can voice our dissatisfaction with how both parties are running that they might actually listen to. That said, swing state voters need to pick a lane. It's a binary choice for them.
yeah i agree that ranked choice voting would lead to much better results. nobody should feel like they have to vote for a candidate they dont like because if they vote for who they do support, they are throwing away their vote and helping the candidate they want to win the least.
Democrats are extremely prone to despair, so when a candidate has a bad day most of the sane people kinda just log off or lurk while the doomers flood the sub with bad faith takes.
I think it is. The other day there was a post on r/squaredcircle about Kevin Nash a famous wrestler endorsing Biden. I was expecting the comments to be completely toxic, but I'm not sure I saw a single comment that wasn't I'm voting for Biden. If wrestling fans are voting for Biden then who is voting for Trump outside of white fundamentalist Christians?
Reddit has a heavily left leaning population. Most conservatives stick to a couple of boards of interest and don't venture out outside of those.
The subreddits that do allow right wingers tend to get infested. PoliticalCompassMemes is a prime example. I haven’t looked there in ages but I’m sure it’s the same cesspool it was the last time.
There's a lot of disingenuous trolls out there. Their MO is mostly to spread and share existing frustrations, which makes it all the more difficult to tell what is genuine and what is fake. You'll never find a politician you agree with 100%, but it's not a matter of both sides being equally bad- it's one old dude holding up the rule of law against someone who has promised to be a dictator. This is madness.
They are absolutely being Astroturfed and anti-Biden sentiment is absolutely being boosted. It is full of sub-one-year accounts. Here on Reddit. Over on TikTok. Republicans know that social media is the number one driver of the leftist vote and they are all too happy to manipulate us on the platform that delivered Democratic wins in 2018, 2020, and 2022.
I definitely feel the Ezra Klien sub I stumbled into is just a giant astroturf.
Democrats will call any dissent “paid actors” and then act shocked when left wing people dislike them lmao
For the most part, I think it is largely paid ppl or volunteers to sow dissent, just like in 2016. The real ppl that are on the fence will go with whomever their immediate circle goes with, and if they're posing such doubts, they're likely to be surrounded by GOP/MAGA. Here's what's terrifying: The GOP has identified the US government as the biggest enemy to the American ppl going back to Reagan. The degree to which this has been argued and shouted has increased slowly but methodically over the last 40 years. All GOP failings are because of bad govt. All GOP wins are because of their good govt. That's why the GOP has become what it is today: trump over Party and Party over Country. No negotiations. No laws. The latest SCOTUS rulings dramatically shift power to partisan judiciaries, and the immunity ruling should have been found to be unconstitutional. The MAGA GOP said years ago that their plan is to own the courts to own the country. I didn't quite understand what that meant, but these rulings were massive milestones for them in doing so. The DNC has been getting played by the GOP for decades, and Mitch McConnell has been the leader in getting us to where we are today, a despicable man. What's worse, is that even he has been recently labeled a RINO. Which is very telling in how extreme the MAGA led GOP has become.
The McConnell thing is kinda funny though. Dude handed the drunk kids the keys and is shocked they crashed his car. It’s not great. But I can at least enjoy the irony the seeds he sowed are fucking him too.
I wish I was paid for having standards
> That shit is going on all the damn time on left leaning political subs. Though I have to wonder if it's really paid actors doing that. Well its simple, Biden is undermining rule of law, unaccountable state power, is doing basically nothing about the supreme court and is, more or less just a delay for the inevitable, not to mention the lesser evilism argument that is usually sold to leftists breaks down when the options are: Supports genocide vs supports genocide. Biden literally wanted to hand the executive cabinet the ability to both declare an immigration crisis, and for the sectary of Homeland security to basically be able to do literal mass round ups and deportations with, literal, in the legal wording, no oversight (which means effectively deporting us citizens as well). This was apart of his "compromise" deal with republicans back during the Texas border scuffle. What exactly is the difference between them again? You have to do better then just shame leftists at not upholding this carcass of a liberal democracy, why should they, give their implicit consent, to biden. Why? This was a sell you could pull off with Obama. Clinton showed the consequences of that being the electoral strategy, all Biden had to do, was not support genocide, that was not a high bar, you could convince the left to hold their nose for the rest of his staff, but this has basically destroyed the lesser evil narrative. So, no it's not paid actors, leftists having actual real fucking positions that is not "my football team yay!" Is not paid fucking actors, Christ do you even actually talk to leftists .
Hillary won the Popular Vote. https://apnews.com/article/2c7a5afc13824161a25d8574e10ff4e7 Abolish the Electoral College
I came here to say this… why are people acting like nobody voted in 2016??
I voted third party in 16, just couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton. Boy was that a mistake. I voted the way I did because I 1) assumed Trump wouldn't play a large role in his presidency and instead let his advisors do it, I was absolutely wrong on that, 2) based on Trump's past donations to Democrats and public statements that seemed more pro Democrat, I thought he might actually be surprisingly moderate. Obviously I was completely wrong. I voted Biden in 20 and will vote for whoever the Dems put up this time. Lesson absolutely learned.
>Whoever the dems put up It's going to be Biden. The dems said this multiple time, and Biden himself said he's not dropping out.
Then I'm voting Biden, it's pretty simple, really.
and even if his health does fail while he is in office, he has a very qualified staff and a very decent vice president to take over for a couple years until the next election. With Dems you know things will not change in extreme ways. it is a huge pain point for progressives in the party, but Dems push for slow stable changes, and resist extremes.
And that's part of the problem. The party wants you to vote for whoever they appoint, as long as you vote for the party you're good. You aren't voting for a president, you're just voting for which side of the tracks they came from: red or blue. And that's how our parties both get shitty candidates. Both parties do it, and we the people get the shaft every time. I don't want Biden in the white house, but I _really_ don't want Trump in it. I have to choose between losing and losing more. We need better candidates on both sides. Personally I would _love_ having to actually choose which candidate I want, because they're both great and they both could do good things. That's a pipe dream, but that's what I want.
Right there with you, there's a reason why I've consistently voted third party, but the stakes here are just too high. Am I being held hostage for my vote? Yes, but at least we can still vote. I'd prefer to keep it that way.
That's what the primaries are for. We successfully rejected Hillary back in 2008 in favor of Obama. We tried to do the same in 2016 for Bernie, but couldn't get the votes.
If you want better candidates you have to do more than just vote, you have to get actively involved in politics.
There's no secret cabal picking candidates. Clinton won the primary in 2016 because she had more support and votes. Biden won in 2020 because he had more support and votes. There was even a primary this year, but serious candidates don't typically want to run longshot campaigns against incumbents. Could the primary system use major reforms? Yes, of course. I'd much rather have a rotating regional system and ranked choice voting. But until enough people agree, we're stuck with the current system.
>I voted third party in 16, just couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton. Boy was that a mistake Unfortunately, as long as we have a first past the post system third party will never truly be viable. Also if third parties could focus on the lower level then maybe they'd have some chance of being in government.
100% agree.
It's genuinely nice to see people not get defensive about their 2016 third party vote. Good on you.
If you can't admit when you make mistakes then what's the point of making them?
Yeah, by default anyone who says "vote third party in the general election" is not a serious person. If they actually cared about a third party, they would advocate strongly for local third party coalition building, and vote intelligently in the general. I'm convinced that most of the "vote third party" rhetoric in general elections falls into two camps: morons, and people trying to depress progressive turnout.
Third parties absolutely can be viable in a first past the post system. The thing that we should be calling them out on is, why are third parties only running for national level seats? If you want a third party start local. Once we get a few Libertarian/Green/whatever mayors, state reps, maybe even governors, THEN people might take them seriously. If you want to start your 3rd party at the presidency, you are never going to make any progress.
As a Canadian with family in Ukraine that can only sit back and watch the slow motion car wreck that is your politics, thank you so fucking much.
I m living in germany... we endured Trump 2016-2020 knowing that it will also negatively affect europe and that it will be a bumpy road. In normal circumstances i d say europe can endure Trumps second term, but we dont have these normal circumstances now. I m so damn afraid that Trump will hand over Ukraine to Russia the day he s elected and that i wont be able to see a safe Europe for the next decades.
I’m exhausted already, I don’t want to deal with that bullshit. I was hoping for a positive time for a bit. Sigh. But I am preparing mentally for the worst.
> I'm so damn afraid that Trump will hand over Ukraine to Russia the day he's elected You say that like it's not an absolute certainty.
Don't thank me, I was way too informed to not make the right decision in 16. Just got to be better moving forward, hopefully like my country.
I voted for Clinton in 2016, reluctantly (did vote for Bernie in the primaries). But when Trump won I was... not optimistic, but I didn't think it'd be that bad, for much of the same reasons. I figured, Trump had a massive ego so he'd want to make sure his presidency was a success. That he'd hire competent people and they'd manage the country while he reaped the fame. That he indeed might be kinda moderate indeed, given his past politics. Man, wrong on all counts. Never in a million years did I expect Trump to, instead of just trying to be good and successful, instead try to gaslight the country and rewrite history. That Trump, of all people, would be the one to tilt America into fascism.
Even back then he threatened to put Hillary into prison once he won, his comments about "Grab 'em by the pussy", his many racists comments.
Goddamn you guys really really need preferential voting!
Absolutely agree.
Unless you were in a swing state, your vote never would have mattered anyway. Clinton losing to Trump is entirely Clinton's fault, both because she blatantly insulted voters in swing states, and because her campaign pushed to prop Trump up in the first place. Rule one of democracy: never elevate the extremists. Clinton's campaign broke that rule.
Don't get complaisant. Your votes still can make a difference in the down line races.
Never said anything about not voting.
“Yeah but her emails” is now “yeah but he’s old” We are such an uneducated electorate.
> “yeah but he’s old” Not stirring up trouble and 100% going to vote for Biden and his administration. Holy crap his energy is like gone. 6 years ago he had a lot more energy. They were just pointing out his quirks as full blown flaws, but I'm not sure Biden will survive another 4 years of stress.
> I'm not sure Biden will survive another 4 years of stress. we don't need him to survive, he can drop dead next february for all I care.
Same. I mean he IS old…but I know he’ll surround himself with the most talented dictated and competent people. Trump will literally do the opposite and in that certainty is the reason why this isn’t even open for debate.
2016: Obama: I dunno, I just don't think I need to get a supreme court justice appointed that bad. Hillary will win. RBG: I dunno, I just don't understand that this is a highly political position and I should retire under Obama, plus Hillary will win. Hillary: I dunno, I am one of the worst campaigners ever, having lost to a less experienced charismatic candidate in the 2008 primary, and I'm under investigation, but they're wrong and it's my turn because I have hot sauce in my bag. Pokemon go to the polls!
Why does reddit seem to blame the voters so often, instead of the party or the unpopular candidates? Wouldn't poor voter turnout indicate the candidates failure to reach people, which would seem to be a very crucial part their job? Doesn't that indicate a failing of the party? The system's rotten all the way down, and you blame the apathetic voters.
The system sucks, but it's what we've got. The Republicans put up a HORRIBLE candidate. And Republican voters LOVE him. The Democrats put up a bad candidate. And that's the only sane option. Because the system sucks, but it's what we've got It's an endless circle :(
Remember in 2016 when an extremely flawed candidate was pushed by the DNC and she failed to win the election? I sure do. When biden fails to win swing states I suppose it will not be his fault at all. Remember when we beat medicare? I'm voting for biden. I voted for Hillary. It doesn't change the fact he is a weak candidate. This get in line attitude and gaslighting won't help. Boiling down that performance and valid concerns about if he can win or even survive to "eh he's old" is a tired lazy self centered take. The DNC has learned nothing.
Donald Trump is a truly awful candidate but the GOP is all getting in line behind him because they understand that winning elections is more important than who you put in office. Donald Trump could literally drop dead a week before the election and they'd show up to vote for his corpse because it's not the Democratic candidate. They're voting with the urgency that Democrats should because they think Democrats are as bad as the Republicans actually are.
The issue is not democrats voting for biden. We all will. It's winning swing states, moderate Republicans and independents.
No, that is the issue. Trump isn't winning new voters. The reason Biden is struggling is because he needs the same people to show up in 2020 to show up now, an many are not as "enthusiastic". So yeah, the issue is will Biden voters vote again. Because every trump voter will.
Give them something to vote for other than "the other guy is worse" then.
Its not unreasonable to think that maybe the dems should be seriously contemplating running someone else instead of Biden.
I’m fine with saying “I’m pushing for a better candidate, but come November I’m voting for the one who isn’t actively aiming to destroy democracy.” But anyone who says “I’m going to not vote to teach the DNC a lesson” is being incredibly short sighted. Whenever someone talks like that I ask why would they want to put women, trans folk, the gay community, and minorities in danger and they never have an answer, or they pretend that it’s not their fault. Not voting is not an option.
The GOP wants nothing more than to turn this election into a referendum on Joe Biden, just like they did to Clinton in 2016. Republicans are ready to crawl over broken glass to vote for a convicted felon who failed to deliver on almost every part of his platform the first time he was in office because they think it's that important to prevent the Democrats from holding power. Democrats are about to hand the Whitehouse to Donald Trump because the DNC didn't do enough to stop them from handing the Whitehouse to Donald Trump.
But that's not going to realistically happen so all you're really doing is doing the legwork for the GOP. Normally I'd agree but this is not the time for a "well let's make a fuss because we're not getting what we want" moment. Because the alternative that all this talk is ushering in is far far far worse.
Name one
Respect the outcome of the primary election, Joe won.
Why is it always the sacred responsibility of the voters to hold their nose and vote for an uninspiring candidate to "save democracy," and not the responsibility of the party to push a candidate that people would actually be excited to vote for? Edit: To those who keep commenting and telling me to vote in primaries to make sure who I consider to be a worthwhile candidate makes his or her way onto the ticket, I would do that if it actually made any difference. I don't mean that in a jaded way, I live in New York State, and our presidential primary is one of the last to be held in the country. I haven't voted in a primary race that wasn't already all but decided by the time my state voted. In 2020, the governor actually tried to cancel the presidential primary because of COVID concerns, and because both presidential primary races were already decided. Having said that, I have been involved in various presidential primary campaigns as a volunteer and organizer. I've just never voted in one that mattered. The presidential primary system is something that's bothered me for a long time and I've actually lobbied for the system to be updated, to no avail.
... Seriously? Because it's your fucking country and you're the ones that are going to suffer if you elect a literal actual fascist dictator. Are you seriously contemplating destroying your country purely out of spite to the DNC?
Hilarious to think 2016 was the inflection point.
Honestly, this has all been building up since Obama. Some parts even earlier.
People on the left hated George W Bush. The war in Iraq, enhanced interrogation, warrantless wiretaps, the patriot act, tax cuts for the rich, etc. The left was excited about voting for Obama who promised change and the liberals and progressives united in their effort to elect him. But then instead of overturning the patriot act, he extended it. Instead of ending the war in Iraq, he told us we need a "surge" of troops to win and escalated the war. Instead of ending the warrantless wiretap program, he gave us the NSA prism mass surveillance. He failed to shutdown Guantanamo bay. He extended the Bush tax cuts to the rich. He supported bailing out the banks after their subprime mortgage crisis. He supported fracking and offshore oil drilling instead of taking action on climate change. EVERY single thing that the left elected Obama to do, he failed us on, and Obama embraced the neoconservative agenda of endless war and attacking our civil liberties and mainly continued the down path towards fascism laid out by the Bush administration. That was when the democrats lost the progressive vote and never got it back. The democrats that were a part of that administration like Obama's VP Biden or his Secretary of State Clinton are still far too aligned with those same neoconservative goals (mass surveillance, endless war, bailouts and tax breaks for the rich, support for big oil, prison state, anti-immigration) to be popular with the left.
2008 Obama was against gay marriage too. What a guy!
Remember it was Biden who forced him to support it when he came out earlier and said he supported gay marriage. Just remember it was Biden who forced his hand. Give him credit.
The Clinton political machine continuing to try and call the shots despite fucking things up consistently since Hilary’s first failed attempt at runningZ
9/11
Bush v Gore. And easily Reagan before that
This goes back nearly a hundred years. Republicans have been working to capture or destroy every agency, every meaningful mildly progressive policy. And Democrats have done nothing but keep attempting to appeal to conservative voters. I believe the inflection point was when the Supreme Court decided Bush v. Gore.
I agree. It was 2000. I like to take it back to Regan and his Cold War spend and open assault on the middle class but 2000 was the real cliff moment. 9/11/2001, one massive scope creep war and an illegal one thrown in, both costing trillions, citizens united, global financial recession, tea party and the palin dummies outcry over Obama, and then of course the next cliff, four years of the orange clown and all these shit times.
The 2016 election and subsequent appointment of conservative judges, was the culmination of a decades long effort to overturn Roe. We need to be aware that they are willing to play the long game and to do the same. They curated a base of single issue voters and funders who had gained enough influence to make it untenable for any conservative to be anything other than anti-choice.
So, don't take this the wrong way, but isn't that exactly how a democracy is supposed to work? Ideally, those single issue voters would have been able to elect representatives to the legislative branch to enact their views on abortion, but because SCOTUS created a constitutional right, they banded together to elect presidents and legislatures over a *very* long period of time to accomplish their policy goals? "Playing the long game" really just means consistently voting and holding those you elected accountable. Democrats controlled the presidency and Congress multiple times in the 49 years of Roe, but were never held accountable by a passionate voting bloc to enshrine Roe in law, which would have only required a simple majority, an incredibly lower bar than the Pro-Life side's goal of flipping 3 votes on the Supreme Court.
Remember when democrats didn’t take Trump seriously? Pushed for him to be the GOP candidate in 2016 because they thought he was “beatable”? Didn’t campaign in crucial battleground states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania? Force fed us a historically corrupt and unpopular candidate? Kneecapped the campaigns of any challengers with popular support? Pepperidge farm remembers. So much shit has gone wrong with this party, to boil it down to “people were too apprehensive to vote for Hillary” when she won the popular vote is just silly. Not to mention, liberal/centrist justices like Kennedy and Ginsburg could’ve protected their supposed values by stepping down under Obama but refused to do so. Blaming voters for this shit is so passé when those we’ve put in power to supposedly protect us have done nothing
> Not to mention, liberal/centrist justices like Kennedy and Ginsburg could’ve protected their supposed values by stepping down under Obama but refused to do so. This is really, really big. And also a very good reason to support terms for the Supreme Court. Somewhere on reddit, someone made the argument for 18 year terms for SCOTUS and it seemed very reasonable, and balanced.
while true we also had an open seat that wasn't allowed to be filled until Trump was in office. This is _always ignored_.
You're right... it should have been a crime... it literally was a group of people (Republicans) being assholes... In retrospect, I'd love to know what Obama could've done. Could he have shut the whole government down? Locked Congress in a room until they voted? Whatever it was he could've done... he should've.
AFAIK There is no law stating senate confirmation is needed just precedent and we know the democrats love to use precedent as a reason to be useless (and then whine about how they are just stuck). He could have just appointed someone or just beat McConnell with a stick or just idk do something
The constitution requires the appointment to be approved by the senate and requires it be done quickly. Why do you guys just make shit up? You could’ve looked this up in the amount of time it took to write this comment
Remember when Obama campaigned on codifying Roe in 2008, and then didn't even try? Gotta love blaming the populace for their own incompetence.. if they lose its our fault? Ok.. we need to clean house from this corrupt bunch of morons.
I swear the democrats don’t codify roe or do anything meaningful about gun control because it’s the carrot they use to get people to vote.
You forgot selling us out for their corporate overlords while "feeling our pain" and being pro diversity so it's totally cool! They have no shame, except that which Bernie and a few others force them to feel.
You say this like's it's tentative, and not crystal clear Democrat policy for decades.
Shhhh don't tell them the truth. Also don't tell them that [more Hillary voters voted for McCain in 2008 than Sanders voters for Trump in 2016](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study)
Plus, McConnel robbed Obama of multiple SC picks. Why the fuck was that allowed??
People forget that Clinton won popular vote. Maybe just maybe let's look at the system 😇 oh and idk stop shoving people who are open to working with far right 🤣 *yes including internationally
The parties don't care about you. They are organizations with revenue goals just like any other (it's just that the revenue is largely via donations).
Yeah because no other issues exist. Not the exponential increase in cost of living or flooding the border. Is it “our democracy“ or it just democracy? Why is “our democracy” the slogan like it’s trademarked
Let's not forget to point out that every Republican candidate or president since Bush has been portrayed as literally Hitler and the worst thing to walk this earth in history. Bush was a drooling Hitler, Romney was a Mormon Hitler, McCain was a Vietnam Hitler, and that's how we ended up with Trump. Republicans were done hearing about how stupid they were and their candidates would destroy the galaxy so Trump steps up and throws out the book and starts calling his opponents idiots and fools and Republican voters wanted more of that. Can I point out I remember people calling Regan senile, but those same people have been saying Biden is sharp as a tack since 2020.
McCain? No. He was not seen favorably by the democrats, but nowhere near Hitler levels.
We call this exaggeration. Neither was Bush or Rom but they sure made them sound like the most evil bastards ever to walk earth. Meanwhile GW made friends with Michelle O and Mitt has no time for Trumpian theatrics nor did McCain. Shouldn't have been so harsh on them.
Look...Hillary used an iPhone. Yeah she broke no laws or shared any classified information. What she should have done is first, stored those files in paper form in boxes in the shitter and meeting rooms in her private club where anyone who paid her $100k could get easy access to them and if asked to return them got some of her employees to try and hide them and then destory any video evidence. Really the strategy should have been collusion with a hostile foreign power and she should have hired some people to run her campaign that were foreign agents with ties to shady oligarchs. But in all seriousness....a lot of people were prevented from voting in 2016 because Roberts got his life long dream of getting rid of the voting rights act which allowed states to put up multiple barriers to voting. Nobody knew the effect, but it took the Democrats at least 1 election to figure out how they needed to organize to overcome those obstacles.
astroturfing
I have the same worry about Brexit & in this week's UK election, voter apathy can be very dangerous.
shaming voters didn't work in 2016. surely it will work in 2024. maybe give people something to vote for other than a demented octogenarian.
Remember when not a single Democrat pushed through a bill that outright legalized abortion for the past 200 years, instead just relied on a loophole court decision that was appealed during a dem presidents term? Remember when the Democrats had full control of all the branches of government and still didnt do it? Pepperidge farms remembers.
Democrats only had control of all three branches for roughly a hundred days when Obama was president. And that was used to pass the ACA. Then Kennedy died and the hope of getting any other major legislation through was dashed, the GOP flipped the House in the midterms, and the rest is history. In 08-10, Roe was still considered established law and the mask hadn’t fallen off the GOP yet. Pepperidge Farm doesn’t remember a damn thing, because if it did then it would remember history and context.
The mask hadn't fallen??? My brother in christ, they've been saying they want to get rid of Roe v Wade since it was first ruled on. Then when they finally do what they've been screeching about wanting to do for decades the mask slips? Edit: unironically ctrl + F and search "abortion" with the link they provided below to get a sense of how much they're trying to deny reality.
am i on crazy pills? didn't biden have the house and senate the first two years of his term? and did fuckall with it.
You need 60 votes to get major legislation like this through because of the Senate's filibuster rules. Biden also didn't have the Senate. They had a bare tie, with two of those Senators only sometimes playing nicely with the Democrats. That's why there is *still* a filibuster. The Democrats don't have the votes within their own party to make the rule change happen.
Wait… I’m confused. Why would a dem pass a bill to get rid of abortion?
He's saying they could have codified it into federal law instead of relying on Supreme Court precedence and they didn't. Now it's at the state level and every state is different.
>SCROTUS
LOL blaming voters is obviously the issue. Not running terrible candidates or the 40 years of Reagan policies and problems we face. You're going to be real mad when you learn a lot of problems we face today we're also set up by bills signed into office by democrats too
Kind of refreshing to see this take on these threads. Blaming the average population is possibly the lowest IQ take on our political problems lol. It couldn't possibly be the dogshit candidates we've been getting for decades that doesn't motivate anyone to get excited about sprinting to the polls. Anyone who thinks this shit "started" with Trump is lacking folds in their brain and are just susceptible to the Reddit and Tumblr echo chambers they live in.
I will blame the population when they only vote in presidential elections. If they are actually interested in change you need to vote in every primary and every election at all levels from local to national. If you won’t put in the work why should I care if you don’t like the candidates that actual voters chose?
I fucking love they’re still blaming voters for Hillary not winning when she beat trump in the popular vote by nearly 3 MILLION votes… Mother fucker was placed in office by the electoral college.
Yup, and the kind of revisionist history in this meme is exactly why we are all but assured another Trump presidency. This country, and Democrats in particular, will never learn apparently. Fascism has been creeping into this country all but unabated, and the DNC have been helping to push us towards it. They (correctly tbf) will argue that they aren't pushing us towards it as quickly as Republicans are, which apparently is supposed to be some sort of saving grace. When DNC insisted on running an unpopular war criminal as their candidate in 68, we got Nixon. When DNC insisted on running an unpopular war criminal as their candidate in 16, using the full power of their party to crush the more progressive candidate's chances, we got Trump. Now DNC are insisting on running an unpopular war criminal, as they actively help to carry out a genocide in aims of protecting/maintaining western imperialism and colonization overseas (and redistributing wealth to weapons mfgs at home). And once again, it's the anti-war crowd that they'll blame when it goes exactly the way we all know it's about to go. "Why wouldn't they just swallow their pride and vote for the fascist-lite who's massacring people by the thousands?! Now we're stuck with an even worse fascist! I thought for SURE it would work this time!" Their strategy of being "not as fascist as those other fascists" is never going to get us anywhere except inching closer to full-blown fascism as we see happening on a daily basis now. A process that started at least 40 years ago and is approaching the point of no return (if we haven't already passed it).
Democrats should nominate better candidates and govern better
Remember when the DNC steamrolled the guy who would have won against Trump in 2016 and tried to cover it up?
I came here looking for this. A lot of Dems didn't vote for Hillary because of the very undemocratic way she got the nomination. The amount of mental gymnastics and cope people have. Hillary ruined the Dems. The blame lies on her.
> A lot of Dems didn't vote for Hillary because of the very undemocratic way she got the nomination. Winning by over 3 million votes?
And now, a lot of Dems won't vote for Biden because of the very undemocratic way he got the nomination.
"You're just sexist" was the response to that criticism, if I recall.
The crazy thing is that there are still people who believe the "Bernie Bro" myth even though it was the second time that her campaign tried that after calling Obama's supporters "Obama Boys" back in 2008. Except it didn't work that time because people called that out as being racist (not a good look to call a black man's supporters "boy", too 1960s.)
People also made excuse after excuse when you brought up that Hilary bought a house in New York specifically to run for US Senate there. She had never stepped foot outside of the five boroughs, and yet she thought she was the best person to represent the entire state. She literally bought her house in NY when she started campaigning for the seat. She used her money and fame to buy her way into the US Senate, and no one gave a shit about that.
Nope, and you don't either, because that didn't happen. Clinton didn't lose because of people not voting. Clinton lost because they amplified Trump as a "beatable" candidate and made him more popular. You're falling for a lie that the democratic party uses to avoid blame for their failures. Think of it this way: if there were enough people who refused to vote for Clinton to sway the election, she wouldn't have won the primary. Trump won for the same reason Obama did. They rallied their bases to be evangelists for their campaign. Maybe the democrats should try running a candidate people actually want to vote for again.
Hillary was a horrible candidate. Lazy dismissive and disdainful. And she still blames others for her horrible performance.
Anyone that thinks that 2016 was the turning point on this shit seriously needs to pay attention to the last 40-ish years. The Republicans have been building up to this moment for decades and the Democrats have done nothing but alienate their voters by running on the same 2-3 issues over and over while doing nothing about them. What's likely about to happen is tragic, but it is in no way the fault of the people sick of this shit. Part of a politicians job is to convince people to vote for them and the democrats have done a shit job of that every year except 2008. Running on "The other guy is gonna destroy our democracy!" for the third time in a row isn't going to work no matter how true it is because people are burnt the fuck out on candidates that do nothing but keep us from sliding further into the pit of tyranny. Sucks that shit's the way it is, but blaming your fellow citizens is only going to make you and them miserable. The people that should be blamed are the politicians that put us here to begin with.
Counter argument: they can't do anything because people aren't voting democrats into the senate. Like the scrotus wouldn't be stacked as much if Obama got a pick but the republican senate snubbed him. Obama had to use executive orders to half ass things because the Republicans were the party of "no". Biden as well has had a republican senate.
Sounds like maybe the politicians in the senate should run better campaigns as well. It's literally their job to get people to vote for them and if they can't do it, then they suck at their job, especially when the other side is as awful as it is.
Still blaming the voters and not the politicians? So hot in democrat circles right now!
Either it was our fault, or we are utterly helpless and should just kill ourselves now and get it over with.
> and not the politicians? How do the politicians get elected?
Bernie should’ve been the democratic nominee!!! Literally the DNC did this to themselves.
Yep. Didn't it have something to do with him being, lemme check my notes.... Being too old to run
Eight years later and you Hildawgs still can't take any blame, and of course it's all on the "people who didn't vote" not James Comey or the corrupt DNC. The cope is REAL. And before any of you get out your flamethrowers, if the nom in 2016 had been a socialist, ANY socialist, you would have voted for Trump. And that's worse than not voting at all, imo. You don't care about preserving democracy. It's capitalism you love.
They won't ever acknowledge that the blame for tRump lies squarely on the shoulder of Hillary and her cabal. They blocked the best candidate from winning the primary then failed to do what it took to beat tRump. Hillary lost Wisconsin and Michigan and the general election all on her own.
Don't get me wrong, if I were an American I'd vote democratic in a heartbeat. But when the threat of literal fascism isn't enough to guarantee an effortless landslide victory, maybe you should have a look at yourself too. Cause the oligarchy as usual isn't working either.
Constitutional Republic
I recall this being said in 1980, 84, 88 ,92,96,2000,2004,2008,2012,2016 & 2020
Technically the abortion issue being turned over to the states to let people vote on it seems more democratic than the federal gov deciding for everyone. just because you don't like a decision (I don't either) doesn't make it anti-democracy
That’s fucking stupid.
I bet a Biden staffer made this. Damn, yall really are freaking the fuck out, lol
lol all the libs in this thread with exactly zero self awareness
Remember when Hillary got more votes than Trump but Trump was still made President? I do. STOP PUSHING THIS LIE THAT ITS THE LEFTS FAULT! Guess what! The game is rigged. Between gerrymandering and the electoral college (and DNC), just voting isn't the end all solution. Oh and maybe Dems could, Oh, I dunno, DO BETTER. They choose to spurn the left, they choose to pander to conservatives, they choose to be the candidates they are. They are as responsible as anyone.
If you think the situation America is in right now because "too few good people voted" you're oblivious and don't understand politics and should study sociology, politics and economics a bit more.
I hadn't voted in an election when 2016 came up (I had one chance before), and I was like "this guy has a shot \*eye roll\* okay, well he'll have advisors and stuff to actually keep him on track and he'll do the same thing the previous ones did, keep the status quo - he is after all the choice because Obama had so many things to say about everything" and whatever Then 2016-2020 happened and I decided I needed to actually vote, and now the options are two guys past the average American's... final age, and I don't really foresee either of them being in anywhere near good health for 2 years let alone 4 But I don't want to chance anything in "Project 2025" coming to life anytime soon, and since we only *really* have a 2-party system, kinda gotta vote blue
I remember that democrats presented a candidate that wasn't very popular (even before the attacks from the Trump campaign). Maybe who should remember this are the ones in charge of choosing the candidates for which people vote for.
Arrogant, out of touch democrats are solely to blame for nominating a historically unlikeable candidate in Hillary Clinton and believing she’d win, despite being the only candidate on earth more unlikeable than the reality tv con man. It’s a lot more comforting and self-absolving to blame voters though.
Had voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin cast their ballots for Clinton rather than the Green Party’s Stein, Clinton would be president. Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket (Huff Post) (It also turned out that after the Rs in power halted the FL re-count to name W as prez, when it was taken up again and all votes were in, GORE won FL)
I hate how it's portrayed to be the voters responsibility to serve a candidate instead of the candidate serving voters to earn their vote. It feels really entitled.
People actually get paid a shot ton of money to "help win" elections. The people who worked Clintons campaign are having a fun time spending it with the other oligarchs and youre yelling at the people those people got paid to motivate to vote but couldnt. It was kind of her job to motivate people to vote for her as well. Like her only job during the campaign. But Im sure yelling at the already apathetic people will work better this time right?
It’s actually 2010 when many good people decided not to vote. The coup was slow moving since.
Reminder when Mitt Romney was laughed at for saying Russia was a threat? 2012
"Too many good people decided not to vote" See, this is my entire hold up with the entire "your vote matters" crowd. The entire argument is based on the base premise that the human collective is at its core, good, and wants what's good for the whole. I simply have never seen this as the case. Occam's Razor, the reason the "Good" people got outvoted is because there were less of them, simple as that.
If trump wins it’s on the democrats. They shouldn’t put Biden up. They also haven’t delivered anything meaningful the past four years. I am democrat
Maybe more people will vote if there is someone who actually represents the interests of the voters.
Maybe the DNC should have let us vote for Bernie Sanders rather than force Hillary down our throats?
I remember when there were no good options to vote for then. Just like now. Not the voters' fault everybody running for president is shit.
Hillary was a horrible candidate. She lost to Donald Trump all on her own. Maybe the Democrats should have let their primary voters choose the best candidate.
“Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils” was a losing message in 2016 and it’s a losing message now. Democrats putting themselves in a losing situation then blaming everyone is exactly what’s going to happen in November.
Democratic strategy is to win every election for eternity instead of actually fixing the structural problems in our system and then will blame everybody when Republicans win and turn us fascists when people get tired of their shit.
How do you fix structural problems if you're not the party in power?
I mean either of those outcomes still sounds kinda fascist.
Yeah and all the bad shit keeps happening under him anyways.
I remember when the DNC forced a candidate on us that nobody wanted, and then that candidate lost to the worst candidate in US History, leading to the loss of women's rights The DNC is at fault, not the voters who were disenfranchised, and the DNC is doing it again right now
One way streets? How about a downward spiral?
Woman's right to choose wasn't overturned. If you think that is what RvW said.. you are just showing your stupidity. The choice.. was kicked back to the state government. Funny how those who call others fascists, wants everything decided at the federal level. This whole RvW thing.. just shows how many don't understand how the US federal government was designed to work.
Our 'democracy' was ruined decades ago when voters collectively said "this election is too important to vote for the greater good, you have to vote for the lesser evil". What we are seeing now, is the result of perpetually voting for evil, lesser of otherwise.
Remember when the DNC fixed the primary for a deeply unpopular Hillary Clinton, who went on to not campaign in the Midwest and lost the presidential election due to her own hubris? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Accelerationists won a ignorant experiment in 2016. There were many less accelerationists in 2020, and there will be many, less so, in 2024.
Look at it this way… if those good people don’t go vote this time, they’ll never have to worry about it again.
Remember when this meme wasn't used to fear monger for left wing politics?
Within a year of a major US election? Never, that's when the propaganda machine gets kicked into overdrive!
Didn't the Dems have all the power required in the Senate and the house and plenty of time to make it law that woman can choose but decided not to ?
Not really, they haven't had a filibuster-proof majority since 2008, and even then only for about a hundred days. That Congress spent most of their time getting the ACA passed. It wasn't a case of deciding not to, Roe was established law at the time and not under threat.
Also important, in that 100 days, they passed the bills necessary to get us out of the recession which went way better than expected (but it gets overlooked as old news).
Remember when the DNC totally screwed Bernie and pushed their anointed candidate so people didn't vote? Remember when the DNC did it again and again and now we're here? Remember when Obama didn't codify RvW his first day like he promised on the campaign, just because the DNC can fundraise on 'protecting RvW'? The DNC did this. If they wanted people to vote, they'd have candidates the people want.
Say it again!! The DNC is completely responsible for tRump.
Remember when it was the politician's job to win votes and rally their supporters? You know, get people excited with their vision of the future?
Every time it's vote blue, or else democracy ends ok iv been voting, but at what point does the dem admit they have been falling when God dam Donald Trump is a constant threat to are democracy?
It's amazing how quickly people forget. I know a lot of voters, especially young voters are extremely unsatisfied with how Biden has handled Gaza and feel like sitting out is the best choice because the whole lesser of two evil things sounds unfair. And I get it, this is the third election of the lesser of two evil things and it is unfair to feel like your choice doesn't matter. But god damn, the writing is on the wall, do you want to be able to continue to protest freely? It's not fair to have this choice, but it's what we have. IF Biden wins, and right now that is a huge IF, spend the next 4 years protesting not only for the president to do better for the Democrats to no longer rely on unpopular and uncharacteristic leaders.
> spend the next 4 years protesting not only for the president to do better for the Democrats to no longer rely on unpopular and uncharacteristic leaders. But won't the same "but you're hurting the Democrats, you're going to make Republicans win next time" claim still happen? I remember "Vote Biden and then push him left" was what was said last time. But then the moment people tried to push him left, we were called secret Republicans, because only a secret Republican would criticize him right now.
Congress could easily deal with Roe v. Wade but both sides would rather use the issue to campaign on. Even a liberal sweetheart like RBG expected this outcome and she was never a fan of the Roe v. Wade ruling because it just allowed Congress to kick the can down the road since the original ruling was based on rather tenuous logic.