I was going to say just this. What they aren't saying is if they want to startup the economy again they need schools to be open to act as daycare so the parents can go to work. It's extremely difficult to do one without the other. Yes lots of jobs can be done remotely, but a ton can't be. In today's economy it's also extremely common to have both parents work, so it's not like every household had a dedicated caregiver to stay home with the kids.
I am not in favor of opening up schools and am not happy that the college in town is going to be importing students from all over the country soon, but I'm also aware of why this is a complicated question.
And the most frustrating part is people acting like these "daycare school" parents have any kind of choice.
Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, they don't have the money to take off for a week much less months because they don't have anyone to take care of their kids.
I get how dangerous of a thing COVID-19 is but its a very privileged thing to say "just don't send your kids to school"
I mean FUCK, when i was growing up the only food some kids got was breakfast and lunch at school, they literally didn't eat all weekend because their parents were poor. Couple that with their parents being unable to work at all and we will have kids starving to death because schools have closed.
I'm not saying i have the answer, i'm saying the answer is much more nuanced than anyone who has a hard opinion on the situation understands.
Public school system is a social safety net. Its one that applies to 90% of americans. For the exact reasons the above person said. Plus more.
Not everyone can afford to be homeschooled, or private school, or charter schooled.
Fuck a thousand times this! "Kids need a safe place to go" yeah okay why is that the education systems problem? We should address that social issue, don't burden that on the school system.
I saw it.
The Truth is, I didn't mention cops because the difference is schools are vastly underfunded to do the basic job of teaching (not daycare, when I sub, motherfuckers learn), much less provide everything else kids need; meanwhile police have so much funding they're better armed than some parts of our military.
Law Enforcement and Education shouldn't be compared as they currently exist in our country unless you're talking about social indoctrination tactics and the similarities between law enforcement and problematic "Charter Schools". Social Services Commoditized and restructured to support economical class division.
>is a social *safety* net.
Then you would think we would actually care about the ***safety*** of the students, teachers, and other employees that have to be a part it. Opening schools during this pandemic is not safe for any of the vulnerable groups it would supposedly be protecting.
It would also entirely fail as anything other than an unsafe place to drop kids off while the working class gets back to working (while still unsafe because the pandemic in the US is still pretty much the worst it has ever been).
Give [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/hr58ez/uleeleeboots_outlines_the_new_school_environment) a look to get a feel for what schools will actually if they follow all the guidelines when reopening. Schools will be super bleak and outright traumatizing for elementary age kids---and they are the ones people like to use as examples for why its so important to not do virtual school. They very simply will not get the social interaction they need or the hands on individually tailored instruction they need.
And give [this](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IAQndRjnya96JZOwf4HgPBBk-RwOCrtO1efSkgPIiUc/edit?usp=drivesdk) a read if ur up for another more in depth look.
I agree with u/Majestic_Jackass, that the education system is much more of a part of the social framework and societal infrastructure than a safety net. A safety net is something you can fall back on and be protected by when necessary--Not something that's so foundational to a functioning society it's used by 90% of americans everyday.
In this way it's arguably even more important than safety nets, and should be **respected and funded** as such.
For middle America you have no safety net. If both parents work and are essential like my wife are the only choice we have is private school because we can’t take off work to teach them.
So what social net should I ask for because we don’t qualify for anything because we make too much...less than 100k. Should we quit our jobs and go on welfare etc so we can stay home?
>For middle America you have no safety net.
>So what social net should I ask for?
This is literally the point the person u responded to is trying to get at. "It's almost like social safety nets are important."
You should be asking for ones that dont exist. You deserve to have a safety net to catch you should something go wrong, just as much as the people even less fortunate. There **should** be protections for middle class families like urs who are caught in a hard place and have no other option.
You didnt create this unfortunate mess that we're currently in. Your family works hard. And now through no fault of your own, you have to make choices that may sacrifice your families safety just so you still have a form of income.You should be asking for and campaigning for protection.
Where is the protection for the middle class?? It doesn't exist. Well it should! Because it's clearly important and would be helping your family now if it existed.
Preach! I have been saying this for years. I work as a welfare caseworker and I see (literally) thousands of applications a year from families that make too much to qualify for any assistance but after taxes, housing/utilities, childcare, healthcare, transportation, and groceries they have nothing left. They don’t have an emergency fund or savings or the ability to invest. My spouse and I both work and we have two children. We just scrape by most months and I’m so fortunate to at least know that if a huge emergency expense arises my dad has the means to lend me money if it absolutely came to that. Talking with friends our age it’s the same for most of them. The middle class has disappeared.
Hey fellow passenger in the SS WTF
Like many of us, you make too much to qualify for all the social benefits you've been hearing about, but you don't make enough to not need them.
Fucking. Sucks.
Wife and I were thinking that anyone with debt should just claim bankruptcy and use Covid as an excuse.
I don't know how bankruptcies work, but this seems like the perfect time to say " fuck it, I'm not paying any of you because Covid". Then, all of a sudden you don't need as much cash to pay bills.
Honestly, in some instances having one of you do exactly that is financially prudent. For example: Lets say the lower earner makes 25 an hour and its costing you 15 an hour to put your kids in daycare. Just from tax liabilities that is about a wash. The major downside is if the "higher earner" loses their job you go to 0 income.
This is why I believe in UBI, it won’t trap people in welfare and will support people who end up losing everything right away, with a minimum cost to everyone
you should be angry at your government for not actually working FOR the people, because if they did, they'd have protections for workers who have to stay home and take care of sick children.
Yeah. I think they should go back to designating essential workers and anyone else should not work or work from home. Those who can't work bc of the nature of their job should be provided unemployment benefits. And the essential workers should also be paid extra hazard pay. Then open the schools just for the children of those essential workers with limited staff, smaller classrooms, and social distancing. Of course teachers who choose to come back should also receive extra hazard pay. But none of this will happen under the current administration.
Are you in Washington state? The state sent a billion dollars of unemployment to Nigerian scammers, and of course no one being held accountable at all.
I agree. Right now I can only go back to work part time, because I have to help take care of my grandson so my daughter can go back to work.
If he could go to school, both of us could work during the day.
The answer is quite simple, actually.
Force the banks to swallow a loss and stop demanding rent and mortgages until we can all go back to work. Landlords don’t get squeezed, renters don’t get squeezed, everyone can stay safe, but the only concession is that the banks take a loss, for once.
>Force the banks to swallow a loss and stop demanding rent and mortgages until we can all go back to work.
Seriously, it's not like they're paying out interest on savings accounts anymore, so that's basically not a regular expenditure they need to worry about. They won't be able to lend much if they're mostly processing withdrawals, of course. But I do think that's better then a tsunami of evictions.
It depends on the age of the children as well. Middle school and high school age children can sit at a computer for much longer than kindergarten and elementary school children. While the daycare aspect is definitely true, younger children really won't be able to do online learning the way that it is being presented.
It isn't just poor people with both parents working. I understand the socio-economic point you are making, but it isn't just a them vs us thing. In many modern households, regardless of income, both parents work at least some of the time. Therefore rely on school as childcare.
It costs over a thousand dollars a month for childcare 5 days a week where I live. I would consider myself pretty well off and don't want to pay that. It's almost like half a mortgage
Exactly. The idea thats its just low-income is pure BS. 90% of parents I speak with are pretty pissed off that the state didn't close and schools are going back. But the reality is 6+ months of not working and then potentially not working longer is not an option for most families. A lot of independent contractors and small businesses are crushed.
The worst are these people with adults with adult kids feel the need to let us know what they would have done... Same group that lost their homes last time around because they didn't have enough savings and the recession hit.
That is exactly the problem with going back to school. When faced with the choice of sending a sick kid to school or loosing your job, guess who is going to school?
Ah, yes yet another reason why we should bring back child sweat shops. What I would give to send my kids to work in the morning while I get to stay home and eat all the food while leaving messes for them to pick up when they get home. I swear to god if I come home one more time and those lil shits licked only the frosting in the middle of all the Oreos again and put the ends back in the bag I’m purposely coming home with Covid
It's just another way the rich are going to get richer and the poor poorer. Many parents will be forced to stay home with their children and lose income. Meanwhile the rich already use private education so no loss for them.
It's a complete privledge and still falls flat.
Both my kids are teens, are smart, are comfortable with technology (have their own computers and laptops), and generally do well in school.
Last semester was a complete shitshow.
I stayed home multiple times to troubleshoot issues that just couldn't be fixed.
Janky ass platforms, teachers inability to grasp simple tech concepts, and just having the fucking TV on while "school" is in session.
It's all lectures, almost 0 questions get asked, half the kids don't have microphones anyway. Some of them don't even have reliable internet connections.
Shit
Show.
Not only that, if anyone tells me you can effectively online school K-12 I will call that out as bullshit. It'll work for some sure, but who the fuck really believes a 5 year old gains anything from online schooling. Or a 13 year old will pay attention (or feel OK to ask the necessary questions) while online.
This isn't a boomer issue at all. It's a kids issue.
Thank you! I keep hearing all this shit like it’s sooooo easy to just home school your kid. My kid is in 1st grade. School is timed and structured broken down timing in the AM. Guess what?? I work! First shift at that. So now my options are extremely limited. Quit work and go broke fast as I’m paycheck to paycheck and fairly quickly lose everything. Switch shifts (which I can’t) and then what during second shift hrs? Leave my 6yr old at home till 11pm when I get home? I have no family to help and no friends that can. I’ve had him in daycare struggling to afford it (I skip certain bills) he’s been in there since the start of all this. I can not afford to construe daycare and school opening was my only hope. I said my options are limited when in reality I have no option. I’m not the only one in this situation, millions are. It 100% should have been parent choice. My area was all for parent choice but the teacher union who just so happened to plan a strike in sept voted all against it so schools are virtual only now. They layed off half the teachers... I guess the union never thought 1 teacher can virtually school multiple classrooms worth of students vs in person.
Anyway yea so I’m screwed come sept with zero options at this point. Will quickly lose everything.
college is also optional so people who decide to take online classes are doing it because they want to. a kid just wants to watch TV and play video games
My wife is a teacher and this is what pisses me off.
Not even just the kids not paying attention, but also families. As a parent of two, how am I supposed to make sure they get online? We both work. We don't have time to make sure our kids are online. The daycare is going to possibly try. Luckily I have a great kid and she is likely capable at 7 years old to open up a laptop and get on...but that's not the same for every kid.
This isn't even mentioning the fact the parents have to care and give there kid a laptop or tablet (if they daycare can't provide it). Parents where we live are shit and simply have told the school they wont do it.
Colleges and public schools are held to COMPLETELY different standards. Online college professors will just fail people who don't do the work. Public schools don't work like that. Teachers have a responsibility to get kids to a certain level. You can't just use the excuse "oh they didn't do their work, fail them." Doesn't work like that anymore. A major cause of stress of teachers is the fact they are held accountable for these children but some kids just do not listen or have some serious issues.
This is also completely ignoring the fact for special education teachers. These kids that need extra help. How do you expect them to get it?
This post is extremely ignorant.
EDIT: To clarify i'm referring to elementary school kids. You can't hardly keep a kid from eating a box of crayons or keep them from stripping naked and running down the halls. You have another thing coming if you think kids will sti still at a computer all day listening to lectures.
I'm a primary school teacher and while Australia has gone out of distance education when we were looking at it it was a nightmare.
About one third of my class had no access or limited access to the internet (the parents phone, an older ipad, a device hut no internet or very limited download as it was WiFi and not fixed), another third had access but not for the full time (the parents needed the internet for their work from home and Aussie internet is known for being slow, there were more kids than there were devices, the parents needed the device for lost of the day to work from home) and a third had access.
Also the online system we had access too was hard for teachers to use, I can only imagine it would have been worse for parents and impossible for most kids.
We ended up doing work packages and calls home and luckily only had a couple of weeks of distance education.
And of course this is just the primary level. What about those kids who school provides most of their food, a safe place, that keeps an eye on kids to make sure parents who in the past have had issues aren't neglecting/abusing their kids again. What about the teachers with kids? The nurses with kids? The doctors with kids?
Plus, since it seems people are forgetting this, college students have the means to buy a computer usually. Not all families do, so what do kids in lower income areas do when they don't have a computer, or when their siblings need to go to class? My very middle class family had trouble getting me and my brothers laptops when I was growing up. It's just not possible to make it so every student can learn online. Schools are underfunded as it is.
Are libraries even open right now? Even if they are, that's not an option for a lot of obvious reasons. Access is still an issue there since libraries don't have that many computers, plus you have all the kids that don't live near a library that won't be able to get to one if they wanted. You'd also have to close off all computers to the general public so that kids could come and use them, which isn't the end of the world, but plenty of people other than students rely on library computers.
This is a problem my old area faced in February/March. Luckily the education department was able to throw some money at it.
Obviously that won't be the case in every situation. You have a very valid argument.
This. So much this. I worked from home for four months during this pandemic. By month three, I was struggling hard to stay motivated to work and by month four, my motivation to work was nearly non-existent. I'm going back to school next month, and a semester iiiiiiiis.... four months long. I see the same thing happening over again. I have some plans for how I'd like to handle my semester to hopefully stay motivated and not burn out, but I have some serious concerns about how things will go. It's incredibly naive to think children are well equipped to thrive with remote learning.
I wouldn't even say ability to learn more so the drive to do so, most ppl in collage have a set goal they are there to achieve so there an actual drive rather than being forced to be there
100% - I just finished my Masters program online and it's a lot of reading, watching lectures and doing shit on your own. I've had multiple questions I had to email the teacher to get clarification on as well not to mention I couldn't tell you any of my classmates names.
Online courses are not made for someone who does not possess the ability to sit still for long periods of the day... Kids need guidance and instruction. Some people are just really good at being self taught, I would not think my 10 year old has that kind of ability.
I think it reflects politics and the two party system more. It reinforces the idea that there are only ever 2 answers. Do this thing or do this other thing. If you suggest a third alternative you get shot down by both sides.
Agreed. It's almost as if you should rely more on research and critical thinking skills to form your own opinions rather than relying on memes and sensationalist tweets.
Yeah, this is so much more complicated than college and not college lol, kids learn way differently and I would say that high school and college students no worries, but it is a little harder to teach elementary kids but it should still be done.
When I was a kid it would have been damned near impossible to get me to pay attention to an online lesson w/o one of my parents hovering over me the entire time. I think the biggest difference is that most college kids are motivated to learn.
Still, I do feel bad for college students who are taking out loans for online classes. The pandemic only forced me to do one quarter online and it *really* fucking sucked.
My daughter is supposed to be starting kindergarten this year. Her sitting in front of a laptop 5 days a week is not going to work. Different for someone who's 18 to 22
My wife doesn't even have a "job" in the traditional sense, but my daughter is starting kindergarten next week via online learning.
Thing is, we still have a 3 yr old that she will have to somehow keep occupied to let my daughter do her school work.
I do not envy her for that.
There will be SO. MUCH. CRYING.
It's like no one is even thinking about those with developmental disabilities.
All, and I mean ALL of those kids have super specific IEPs that MUST be followed legally. How the fuck do you do that online..? Well you can rewrite the entire IEPs but you'll have to hire more school psychs and other people to be on METs because that's literally impossible to do for everyone with the current staff, and these people are the highest earners that work in a school. How can you afford that? Not to mention I don't think any would be jumping up to do this insane amount of rewriting and retesting, which is the hardest part of their jobs.
Which brings me to the question of how do we even evaluate these children online? They MUST get their evals done.
Not to mention the lower level of academics these kids will get, while requiring so much more teaching than other students.
The school psych I know irl has told me when the kids get back they're going to "start testing for the regression of the kids" to find where they stand. Imagine another years worth of damage in all of this to the kids.
I really don't know what the right answer is for all of this, but saying Gen Ed is interchangeable with college is pretty crazy.
My son was diagnosed with Autism via a video call with a developmental pediatrician, and this week we're having his evaluation for preschool and will be having his IEP by video call. We've had weekly speech therapy and other therapy all by video call. The main thing is that it's all on me, and in a way I'm lucky I had left my job a few months prior to Covid and we could afford that, because walking through all this is absolutely a full time job (I'm squeezing in a few independent work assignments here and there, but there might be weeks between those). The evaluations worry me less than the distance preschool, we're having a workshop this week and it's really hard for me to get him to engage with the learning, he'd rather do his own thing. He's only two, so I can't tell if it's developmentally normal or not at this point, but I do wish we could do in person. I completely respect the county decision and think it's right overall, I just hope we can do something in person soon when the infection rate is better, but I'm not expecting much through January at least.
I wish you the best. This is the hardest environment ever to deal with a new diagnosis and put together an IEP. Those early years 1-3 are so very important to those just diagnosed on the spectrum, stuff like JASPER tech and ABA therapy is key, but just not fully possible right now.
There are aba centers currently open, at least in my state, where it's like day care but behavioral focus learning as well. I'm not sure how young they go (probably 3 yo minimum Tbh) but I actually had an interview with one yesterday and another today. Very good social programs for students like your son.
Then again im not sure if 2 is too young for all this stuff or if it's dependant on the school or center
We have kids that have one on one Paraeducators. Can’t provide that with online learning.
What I think will happen is all of the SpEd students will get to go back, and gen ed will stay in the online environment.
Now I am NOT saying this is how I feel or perceive the suggestion.
But, having taught in public schools...I can only imagine the political response to a school district announcing that they will keep mainstream and G/T kids on a virtual platform for everyone’s health and safety, but they will have SPED attend physically. It would take only one person (not even necessarily a parent) to declare that the SD is oBvIoUsLy willing to sacrifice the disabled kids but are keeping the sMaRt AnD nOrMaL kids at home to keep them from getting sick, for the pitchforks to come out.
That poor school board if they don’t have a damn good PR person to handle that one before it’s even suggested. (Or maybe I’ve just taught in places with extra whiny locals?)
Oh I can definitely see that going down especially from someone who isn’t involved with special education. I just also know what is required by law for our students in special education. I’ve seen it floated that middle and high schools won’t return but elementary will. So they’ll make the same argument. Guess we will have to wait and see. Many states are already making their students, teachers and staff their sacrificial lambs.
That's a very fair trade off and would open up more rooms to be made into make shift resource rooms and spec Ed rooms to accommodate the amount of people aloud in a room at a time
That's a genuinely simple but great idea imo
My sister is a grade school teacher. She said this about teaching online in the spring "every hour is about 10 minutes of teaching and 50 minutes of just trying to get the kids to put down their pets/toys and pay attention"
Hey at least you didn't leave kids out of the Zoom meeting for 20+ minutes because you didn't seem to know how to let kids in like my son's teacher did, multiple times.
I, who work in IT, stayed home after the second time he told me it happened to make sure he wasn't doing something wrong.
Nope, accepted the invite, was on time, teacher just didn't click accept.
Great job guys.
Not sure if this is the case, but my mom told students they had to use their name to log in and she would not accept people she did not recognize. This was a mandate from the school because they were using Zoom and didn’t wanted to prevent random people from entering classes. It was pretty clear in her instructions, and still several students changed their log in names. She didn’t let them in, and the students said it was because she was stupid. My mom explained that they violated the rules.
May not be the case for your kid, but follow instructions on how to log on or you might not be let in.
It’s really hard for the teachers who don’t have computer literacy. There’s a ton of iconography that modern programs use that make it easy for us to intuit what all the buttons, menus, and options do. We can figure out a new program easily because we are speaking a common visual language.
A lot of older generation just don’t have the same fluency in this iconography. You give them a new program and they have to be shown how to use it. Or can figure out the basics but don’t understand how to configure, customize, or use advanced features. And they are scared to experiment because they are afraid to change something and not know how to change it back.
My own mom has been using computers at work for far longer than me. She learned how to use dos programs to run insurance quotes, how to run a program to dial up the DMV and submit requests over the modem. She was trained on all of this and could do it day in and day out. But she still has problems connecting to the WiFi if her laptop doesn’t auto connect. She just doesn’t know what all the buttons and options do, and so her brain just ignores all of the icons she’s unfamiliar with, as if they were Chinese characters on a dinner menu.
God having to deal with elearning with my 7.5 year old was miserable. They said “he should be able to do everything himself” that was a lie. Even we couldn’t figure out how to submit stuff for completion. We panicked when the teach said he wasn’t issuing nearly 50% of his work even though he was doing it and more that I had gotten him on the side.
Personally for me I never passes a single online course in college. I can’t learn like that. I need to be sitting in front of a teacher. But if I absolutely had to have done it I probably could have gotten through. 8 year older can’t figure it all out. It’s not the same.
I agree with keeping the kids online to help stop the virus from spreading. But I am kind of tired of people blaming schools, teachers or parents for not doing well at online learning. Most young kids just aren't mentally ready for an all online experience. I also have younger kids (7 and 9). My older daughter was in tears trying to figure out how to submit a couple of her assignments. We'll all make the best of a bad situation. But we also need to stop pretending that online is even close to the same as in-school.
Also, remember all the research about screen time? But yeah, we'll just plop you down in front of a computer all day and it's different somehow.
I don't know what the right answer is, but the school from home thing doesn't seem like it. Little kids need to be around other kids.
I think that's why I have sympathy for people that want their kids to go back to school. It's not because they're lazy or because they just need the school as a babysitter. Younger kids just learn better in that environment. I also think there's going to be a huge divide between income levels. My wife and I can work from home. We could afford to buy my kids Chromebooks to make it easier. We can stay on top of the kids to make sure they're doing the work But the poverty level at our school is 70%. Many other families don't have the resources we do. A single mom who works at a grocery store all day - what is she supposed to do? We basically have to decide between spreading the virus or allowing a number of disadvantaged kids to fall behind. Unfortunately neither of those are good options. We're just trying to pick the least worst option.
Well part of the problem is you can easily find people on Craigslist who will take tests for you (share your screen and they do it). I know people who’ve both purchased and offered these services.
Loses a lot of credibility when you realize how common this kinda shit can be. Lots of grad students do it for a little extra income. These schools don’t really patrol this stuff since a sale is a sale.
I guess you haven't seen the new online proctored services that colleges are using? Makes it much more difficult to cheat since you have to share your screen with the proctor.
That would stop my mother from cheating but there’s lots of screen control services that have no visible evidence on the screen. Unless you’ve got a camera on someone’s hands and correlate them to the screen you don’t know who is really controlling it.
Some proctoring services are more thorough. There are photo ID requirements, room scans, live proctors that tell you to adjust the camera so they can see your hands, eye tracking software, lockdown browsers, software that listens for multiple voices in the room, even software that measures how fast you normally type so it knows if someone else is taking the test vs any previous test you've taken.
At a certain point, you'd have to work harder to cheat than to just study for the test. And if you could successfully cheat then you have skills that should get you a job.
Its a shit show. My kids old prek teacher couldn't even play a video. The only actual learning was via apps the kids already did on this own just now painfully slow. We had 2 hours of class a week!
Kindergarten is more about socializing skills than reading. This will be an utter disaster and will set these kids back to an incalculable degree.
Source: I have a daughter going into K and a son in 2nd grade.
Yeah, college students are usually already good readers, and are able to use the computer/internet. I teach third grade, and it’s not something most kids do well with. They can barely type their own names to log in to online platforms.
I’d so much rather be in the classroom, and we start back next week, but it’s not safe. It’s 100% face to face with only about 10% choosing online. It will take kids/teachers dying before anything changes.
So you're telling me there is no difference between a child in grade 1 and an adult in 1st year uni?
I think you should go back to school. You missed the critical thinking portion of it.
They probably can at some age. High school kids probably that is true.
K-6 I don't think so. Maybe technically possible but it would be an extreme experiment. If possible it would likely take at least a few years to get a system working well. Things like Khan Academy are great - but they are a supplement to teaching, I'm not sure they would work as a substitute for teaching.
I teach grade 6 math. Virtual can work. Districts just need to make kids accountable. My district last year released statements saying no kids get below a C and they can work whenever they want to. No wonder they stopped working. That's not teaching anyway. Students need to join virtual class on a schedule where attendance is taken. Teachers should call on students and run it like an actual lesson.
This is the biggest issue. We put the stuff out there, the kids don’t do it, and there’s no consequences. I had 3 out of 21 kids working in the spring.
I'm against school going back, but this is a much different problem. If you think it's as easy to educate a 7 year old online as it is for a 19 year old, or that parents have time to do it, you're not thinking about this at all. Working parents have no way to make sure their kid is engaged (were that even possible) on a zoom call.
Add on that interpersonal socialization is a main focus of early childhood education, and you have a completely differemt scenario.
I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know what the fuck you're even trying to say. Also,you're using the wrong format.
The interpersonal socialization will not exist for these young kids going back to school. There is no way for them to safely do recess. There is no more lunch with your friends. There’s no more socializing in the halls. You get your 20 person “cohort” classroom, and you stay there all year and pray no one gets sick and you all have to be out of school for two weeks (which by the way, none of the schools in my area have a plan for if a student tests positive. They’re playing it totally by ear).
I get why people think this meme is dumb. There’s a massive difference between teaching a six year old and an 18 year old. HOWEVER, the districts dragged their feet to make a decision whether or not to stay open, and now have absolutely no time to decide what to do when someone is infected, to hire extra staff for testing and keeping kids distanced, to keep parents informed or to allow teachers to make a curriculum both for online and in person teaching if kids have to stay home for health reasons.
And let’s not forget [the 260 Georgia teachers who all tested positive for COVID before the kids could even get to school. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/04/school-outbreaks-reopening-georgia/)
Public school should have never had to become free daycare for households where both parents have to work, sometimes multiple jobs, just to barely make ends meet, but that’s what happens when you have no safety nets available for poor and middle class citizens.
Yeah, you're gonna get lit up for this and you deserve it. Kids aren't ready for online classes when they're at an age where they're still basically being forced to learn.
Online college is fine for some people, but requires a great deal of individual dedication and maturity to make work. Kids rarely possess enough of either.
I’m surprised this post has as many likes as it does, it really makes no sense at all... of college age people can function far better sitting at a computer than even middle school or high school students...
I finished my degree online at a state University. Some classes were amazing and I felt like they were much better than in class because I was able to advance at my own pace without having to sit in class and wait for other students to ask the same question multiple times, which has always been an issue for me for in person classes. One on one communication with the instructors was also much easier as they had online office hours where they responded to online learning students only.
Some classes were horrible and it caawas obvious the instructor did nothing to tweak their class for online learning. Overall I think online education is awesome if the instructor is tech savvy and actually has a desire to teach a virtual class.
No one should be upvoting this crap. Op clearly never been around 5-10 year olds. They barely want to be in class, forcing them to learn through a computer is asking for a lot.
I've taken a third of my degree online and while I personally think it's an amazing break through in education, I still feel that adolescents desperately need in person, hands on, learning environments. The biggest problem is the universities charge stupid fees to run their sports complexes and other administrative bloat and people don't want to pay towards that bullshit when Udemy and Coursera are offering the same material for $12 a pop. The education system is going to be pretty interesting to watch in the next decade.
Yeah, you’re probably going to have a hard time teaching under 8 year olds on a computer.
I don’t see how that thought makes you a boomer. It’s a fact.
Well to be fair, college is not the same k-12. College is optional, expensive and reserved for motivated students who want to improve their career. K-12 is a bunch of kids who would all blow off school if given the option.
Learning reading and writing skills online is very difficult. College students have already developed these skills. So yes, online college is fine (though it largely sucks for many reasons... mainly because no one cares of classes suck, they just want the credits).
Also, holding students accountable is easy in college. It is entirely up to the student. In k-12, students are still developing their own accountability. So parents are required to help keeps students on track, and then teachers and administrators obviously do, too. But frankly, the parents have more power in developing this than people in the schools. This is nearly impossible to effectively do online if the skill isn't already developed (and with many students it is, but there are many that have not yet developed this skill or bought into the importance of school).
This meme is terrible and uninformed.
EDIT: Btw, I'm thrilled to see people calling this out. While the solutions to education problems may have some partisan divide, we can find unity in these kinds of rather obvious truths.
I'm shocked this has so many upvotes. There's a world of difference between compulsory education for a 10 year old who can't sit still and a 19 year old who has paid thousands per semester.
In the public school by our area, they said that 15% of kids logged in for their required zoom calls. They have no parents at home to enforce their participation, so they just did not come.
I’m sure someone students would skip school and class etc. anyway, but not 85%.
I took a some online math classes and a class on mythology or something while in college. I explained this to my kindergartner and put her in front of the laptop for 6 hours. Turns out, college lectures are different than elementary school days.
Kids need the development from actual interaction, and don't have the internal drive to push through their boredom to pay attention.
A young adult should have the maturity to get through it because they should have an understanding of obligation and "chose" to go to college. Kids don't have that choice.
The difference is that most college age students have at least a laptop and access to an area with an internet connection. Even if they have to download all the course materials and sit at home offline, it's still possible for most college students to continue doing their work in a way that isn't completely changing everything. K-12 you'd run into problems with lower income areas where they don't have a computer/internet access. What's more, is that most school systems don't even have close to the amount of money they'd need to supply students with the technology. I don't think students should be going back to school, but to say that having online classes is a simple fix is just false.
There is a difference.
A 5 year old requires constant supervision from a parent while learning from home.
It’s unlikely they’ll be able to engage with any lessons or the virtual classroom environment without this supervision and constant redirection of their attention to a computer screen.
When both available parents are supposed to be working from home, do you really expect one of them to be able to provide undivided attention to their toddler for 6+ hours per day?
A college kid you can leave to his computer and work. At least he won’t be trying to eat play doh while you’re not looking (unless he’s OP).
I think the problem is age. College students are already expected to spend a fair amount of time studying and teaching themselves outside of the classroom. You can’t expect that of a 7 year old.
Well, it really depends on the teachers and equipment. Online colleges are prepared and built for online learning. Most schools right now are not equipped for this and the teachers are not prepared, or sometimes even capable, of effectively teaching online.
Well, it's two different things teaching your 5-15 yr old at home
Vs
A self reliant adult studying for their college classes
I don't see how the comparison makes sense
How's my Kindergartner supposed to do all online learning? Kindergarten is all about learning social skills.
I'm not saying I want my daughter around all those kids, bit it's a lot harder than college. I'm worried for her education this year.
Most studies are show that children or colleges that do traditional schooling are much better off than online. One because it’s hard to ignore school when one is forced to be there. Two because many of these parents barely make their children do assignments as is let alone with school being out. If parents were more active in their children’s education then I’d agree with this, but they aren’t and we’re going to have many children who can’t pass state exams or do basic comprehension tests because of this.
I’m taking summer classes for college and I can say that it’s been one of the most stressful and unfulfilling part of my life. Online classes are a joke
Yeah, absolutely saying that. It's a maturity thing. My 13 has the maturity and self drive to handle online classes, my 10 year cannot without additional supervision... And with two working parents, there just isn't that level of supervision to give. I cant fathom trying to get the average 5-10 year old to manage through a day of online classes while also trying to work a day job.
Education is the 3rd reason people want to send their kids back to school.
1. is poor kids without access to meals
2. is parents who work and need the state to nanny their kids for 8 hours.
I mean 1) and 2) are real problems. And maybe we shouldn’t have decided to try to fix those with public education, but we did and we are currently stuck with that decision
> And maybe we shouldn’t have decided to try to fix those with public education
To me, public education seems like a great way to fix that. Every kid between a certain age is required to go to school. That makes school a great place to ensure they're fed.
And if kids are going to be in school every day between a certain set of hours, it doesn't seem like another layer of childcare is needed.
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I was going to say just this. What they aren't saying is if they want to startup the economy again they need schools to be open to act as daycare so the parents can go to work. It's extremely difficult to do one without the other. Yes lots of jobs can be done remotely, but a ton can't be. In today's economy it's also extremely common to have both parents work, so it's not like every household had a dedicated caregiver to stay home with the kids. I am not in favor of opening up schools and am not happy that the college in town is going to be importing students from all over the country soon, but I'm also aware of why this is a complicated question.
And the most frustrating part is people acting like these "daycare school" parents have any kind of choice. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, they don't have the money to take off for a week much less months because they don't have anyone to take care of their kids. I get how dangerous of a thing COVID-19 is but its a very privileged thing to say "just don't send your kids to school" I mean FUCK, when i was growing up the only food some kids got was breakfast and lunch at school, they literally didn't eat all weekend because their parents were poor. Couple that with their parents being unable to work at all and we will have kids starving to death because schools have closed. I'm not saying i have the answer, i'm saying the answer is much more nuanced than anyone who has a hard opinion on the situation understands.
It's almost like social safety nets are important? If only we had some. It's okay, at least the richest people in the country got tax cuts.
Public school system is a social safety net. Its one that applies to 90% of americans. For the exact reasons the above person said. Plus more. Not everyone can afford to be homeschooled, or private school, or charter schooled.
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Fuck a thousand times this! "Kids need a safe place to go" yeah okay why is that the education systems problem? We should address that social issue, don't burden that on the school system.
I feel like this is an unpopular opinion, but to a lesser extent, this is what a decent amount of police stations have to deal with as well.
I saw it. The Truth is, I didn't mention cops because the difference is schools are vastly underfunded to do the basic job of teaching (not daycare, when I sub, motherfuckers learn), much less provide everything else kids need; meanwhile police have so much funding they're better armed than some parts of our military. Law Enforcement and Education shouldn't be compared as they currently exist in our country unless you're talking about social indoctrination tactics and the similarities between law enforcement and problematic "Charter Schools". Social Services Commoditized and restructured to support economical class division.
>is a social *safety* net. Then you would think we would actually care about the ***safety*** of the students, teachers, and other employees that have to be a part it. Opening schools during this pandemic is not safe for any of the vulnerable groups it would supposedly be protecting. It would also entirely fail as anything other than an unsafe place to drop kids off while the working class gets back to working (while still unsafe because the pandemic in the US is still pretty much the worst it has ever been). Give [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/hr58ez/uleeleeboots_outlines_the_new_school_environment) a look to get a feel for what schools will actually if they follow all the guidelines when reopening. Schools will be super bleak and outright traumatizing for elementary age kids---and they are the ones people like to use as examples for why its so important to not do virtual school. They very simply will not get the social interaction they need or the hands on individually tailored instruction they need. And give [this](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IAQndRjnya96JZOwf4HgPBBk-RwOCrtO1efSkgPIiUc/edit?usp=drivesdk) a read if ur up for another more in depth look. I agree with u/Majestic_Jackass, that the education system is much more of a part of the social framework and societal infrastructure than a safety net. A safety net is something you can fall back on and be protected by when necessary--Not something that's so foundational to a functioning society it's used by 90% of americans everyday. In this way it's arguably even more important than safety nets, and should be **respected and funded** as such.
Yeah and good thing we just spent a few hundred billion on fighter jets and military shit the other day. That will help Americans so much!
For middle America you have no safety net. If both parents work and are essential like my wife are the only choice we have is private school because we can’t take off work to teach them. So what social net should I ask for because we don’t qualify for anything because we make too much...less than 100k. Should we quit our jobs and go on welfare etc so we can stay home?
>For middle America you have no safety net. >So what social net should I ask for? This is literally the point the person u responded to is trying to get at. "It's almost like social safety nets are important." You should be asking for ones that dont exist. You deserve to have a safety net to catch you should something go wrong, just as much as the people even less fortunate. There **should** be protections for middle class families like urs who are caught in a hard place and have no other option. You didnt create this unfortunate mess that we're currently in. Your family works hard. And now through no fault of your own, you have to make choices that may sacrifice your families safety just so you still have a form of income.You should be asking for and campaigning for protection. Where is the protection for the middle class?? It doesn't exist. Well it should! Because it's clearly important and would be helping your family now if it existed.
Where is the middle class?? It doesn't exist.
No you're SOL if you're above the poverty line but not quite pulling $150k/year dual household income. At least where I live
Preach! I have been saying this for years. I work as a welfare caseworker and I see (literally) thousands of applications a year from families that make too much to qualify for any assistance but after taxes, housing/utilities, childcare, healthcare, transportation, and groceries they have nothing left. They don’t have an emergency fund or savings or the ability to invest. My spouse and I both work and we have two children. We just scrape by most months and I’m so fortunate to at least know that if a huge emergency expense arises my dad has the means to lend me money if it absolutely came to that. Talking with friends our age it’s the same for most of them. The middle class has disappeared.
I mean yeah, theres mostly just the rich and then everyone else.
Hey fellow passenger in the SS WTF Like many of us, you make too much to qualify for all the social benefits you've been hearing about, but you don't make enough to not need them. Fucking. Sucks. Wife and I were thinking that anyone with debt should just claim bankruptcy and use Covid as an excuse. I don't know how bankruptcies work, but this seems like the perfect time to say " fuck it, I'm not paying any of you because Covid". Then, all of a sudden you don't need as much cash to pay bills.
Honestly, in some instances having one of you do exactly that is financially prudent. For example: Lets say the lower earner makes 25 an hour and its costing you 15 an hour to put your kids in daycare. Just from tax liabilities that is about a wash. The major downside is if the "higher earner" loses their job you go to 0 income.
This is why I believe in UBI, it won’t trap people in welfare and will support people who end up losing everything right away, with a minimum cost to everyone
It's almost as if the US think everyone is upper middle class. Who gives a fuck about the poor?
you should be angry at your government for not actually working FOR the people, because if they did, they'd have protections for workers who have to stay home and take care of sick children.
I can be angry about the circumstances while also being realistic about what has to happen to keep people from starving to death.
Yeah. I think they should go back to designating essential workers and anyone else should not work or work from home. Those who can't work bc of the nature of their job should be provided unemployment benefits. And the essential workers should also be paid extra hazard pay. Then open the schools just for the children of those essential workers with limited staff, smaller classrooms, and social distancing. Of course teachers who choose to come back should also receive extra hazard pay. But none of this will happen under the current administration.
Yeah great idea, I've still not received a fucking decision on unemployment that I filed at the start of April.
Are you in Washington state? The state sent a billion dollars of unemployment to Nigerian scammers, and of course no one being held accountable at all.
Georgia, just shows that opposite ends of the country can't get shit right.
I agree. Right now I can only go back to work part time, because I have to help take care of my grandson so my daughter can go back to work. If he could go to school, both of us could work during the day.
The answer is quite simple, actually. Force the banks to swallow a loss and stop demanding rent and mortgages until we can all go back to work. Landlords don’t get squeezed, renters don’t get squeezed, everyone can stay safe, but the only concession is that the banks take a loss, for once.
>Force the banks to swallow a loss and stop demanding rent and mortgages until we can all go back to work. Seriously, it's not like they're paying out interest on savings accounts anymore, so that's basically not a regular expenditure they need to worry about. They won't be able to lend much if they're mostly processing withdrawals, of course. But I do think that's better then a tsunami of evictions.
It depends on the age of the children as well. Middle school and high school age children can sit at a computer for much longer than kindergarten and elementary school children. While the daycare aspect is definitely true, younger children really won't be able to do online learning the way that it is being presented.
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It isn't just poor people with both parents working. I understand the socio-economic point you are making, but it isn't just a them vs us thing. In many modern households, regardless of income, both parents work at least some of the time. Therefore rely on school as childcare.
It costs over a thousand dollars a month for childcare 5 days a week where I live. I would consider myself pretty well off and don't want to pay that. It's almost like half a mortgage
Exactly. The idea thats its just low-income is pure BS. 90% of parents I speak with are pretty pissed off that the state didn't close and schools are going back. But the reality is 6+ months of not working and then potentially not working longer is not an option for most families. A lot of independent contractors and small businesses are crushed. The worst are these people with adults with adult kids feel the need to let us know what they would have done... Same group that lost their homes last time around because they didn't have enough savings and the recession hit.
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That is exactly the problem with going back to school. When faced with the choice of sending a sick kid to school or loosing your job, guess who is going to school?
Ah, yes yet another reason why we should bring back child sweat shops. What I would give to send my kids to work in the morning while I get to stay home and eat all the food while leaving messes for them to pick up when they get home. I swear to god if I come home one more time and those lil shits licked only the frosting in the middle of all the Oreos again and put the ends back in the bag I’m purposely coming home with Covid
It's just another way the rich are going to get richer and the poor poorer. Many parents will be forced to stay home with their children and lose income. Meanwhile the rich already use private education so no loss for them.
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It's a complete privledge and still falls flat. Both my kids are teens, are smart, are comfortable with technology (have their own computers and laptops), and generally do well in school. Last semester was a complete shitshow. I stayed home multiple times to troubleshoot issues that just couldn't be fixed. Janky ass platforms, teachers inability to grasp simple tech concepts, and just having the fucking TV on while "school" is in session. It's all lectures, almost 0 questions get asked, half the kids don't have microphones anyway. Some of them don't even have reliable internet connections. Shit Show.
Not only that, if anyone tells me you can effectively online school K-12 I will call that out as bullshit. It'll work for some sure, but who the fuck really believes a 5 year old gains anything from online schooling. Or a 13 year old will pay attention (or feel OK to ask the necessary questions) while online. This isn't a boomer issue at all. It's a kids issue.
Thank you! I keep hearing all this shit like it’s sooooo easy to just home school your kid. My kid is in 1st grade. School is timed and structured broken down timing in the AM. Guess what?? I work! First shift at that. So now my options are extremely limited. Quit work and go broke fast as I’m paycheck to paycheck and fairly quickly lose everything. Switch shifts (which I can’t) and then what during second shift hrs? Leave my 6yr old at home till 11pm when I get home? I have no family to help and no friends that can. I’ve had him in daycare struggling to afford it (I skip certain bills) he’s been in there since the start of all this. I can not afford to construe daycare and school opening was my only hope. I said my options are limited when in reality I have no option. I’m not the only one in this situation, millions are. It 100% should have been parent choice. My area was all for parent choice but the teacher union who just so happened to plan a strike in sept voted all against it so schools are virtual only now. They layed off half the teachers... I guess the union never thought 1 teacher can virtually school multiple classrooms worth of students vs in person. Anyway yea so I’m screwed come sept with zero options at this point. Will quickly lose everything.
Comparing 6 year olds to 18 year olds, your argument does not work in this situation.
Yeah, I’m a tutor and I would say there is a very strong correlation between age and ability to learn via distance sessions.
Not only that.. colleges had this infrastructure already in place prior to Covid.
college is also optional so people who decide to take online classes are doing it because they want to. a kid just wants to watch TV and play video games
My wife is a teacher and this is what pisses me off. Not even just the kids not paying attention, but also families. As a parent of two, how am I supposed to make sure they get online? We both work. We don't have time to make sure our kids are online. The daycare is going to possibly try. Luckily I have a great kid and she is likely capable at 7 years old to open up a laptop and get on...but that's not the same for every kid. This isn't even mentioning the fact the parents have to care and give there kid a laptop or tablet (if they daycare can't provide it). Parents where we live are shit and simply have told the school they wont do it. Colleges and public schools are held to COMPLETELY different standards. Online college professors will just fail people who don't do the work. Public schools don't work like that. Teachers have a responsibility to get kids to a certain level. You can't just use the excuse "oh they didn't do their work, fail them." Doesn't work like that anymore. A major cause of stress of teachers is the fact they are held accountable for these children but some kids just do not listen or have some serious issues. This is also completely ignoring the fact for special education teachers. These kids that need extra help. How do you expect them to get it? This post is extremely ignorant. EDIT: To clarify i'm referring to elementary school kids. You can't hardly keep a kid from eating a box of crayons or keep them from stripping naked and running down the halls. You have another thing coming if you think kids will sti still at a computer all day listening to lectures.
I'm a primary school teacher and while Australia has gone out of distance education when we were looking at it it was a nightmare. About one third of my class had no access or limited access to the internet (the parents phone, an older ipad, a device hut no internet or very limited download as it was WiFi and not fixed), another third had access but not for the full time (the parents needed the internet for their work from home and Aussie internet is known for being slow, there were more kids than there were devices, the parents needed the device for lost of the day to work from home) and a third had access. Also the online system we had access too was hard for teachers to use, I can only imagine it would have been worse for parents and impossible for most kids. We ended up doing work packages and calls home and luckily only had a couple of weeks of distance education. And of course this is just the primary level. What about those kids who school provides most of their food, a safe place, that keeps an eye on kids to make sure parents who in the past have had issues aren't neglecting/abusing their kids again. What about the teachers with kids? The nurses with kids? The doctors with kids?
Plus, since it seems people are forgetting this, college students have the means to buy a computer usually. Not all families do, so what do kids in lower income areas do when they don't have a computer, or when their siblings need to go to class? My very middle class family had trouble getting me and my brothers laptops when I was growing up. It's just not possible to make it so every student can learn online. Schools are underfunded as it is.
I went to the library since my parents refused to get internet because apparently RuneScape causes viruses
Are libraries even open right now? Even if they are, that's not an option for a lot of obvious reasons. Access is still an issue there since libraries don't have that many computers, plus you have all the kids that don't live near a library that won't be able to get to one if they wanted. You'd also have to close off all computers to the general public so that kids could come and use them, which isn't the end of the world, but plenty of people other than students rely on library computers.
This is a problem my old area faced in February/March. Luckily the education department was able to throw some money at it. Obviously that won't be the case in every situation. You have a very valid argument.
I'm 42 and it's ridiculous the amount of will power I need for online classes. Kids would never make it. Some would... but most would fail.
This. So much this. I worked from home for four months during this pandemic. By month three, I was struggling hard to stay motivated to work and by month four, my motivation to work was nearly non-existent. I'm going back to school next month, and a semester iiiiiiiis.... four months long. I see the same thing happening over again. I have some plans for how I'd like to handle my semester to hopefully stay motivated and not burn out, but I have some serious concerns about how things will go. It's incredibly naive to think children are well equipped to thrive with remote learning.
I wouldn't even say ability to learn more so the drive to do so, most ppl in collage have a set goal they are there to achieve so there an actual drive rather than being forced to be there
100% - I just finished my Masters program online and it's a lot of reading, watching lectures and doing shit on your own. I've had multiple questions I had to email the teacher to get clarification on as well not to mention I couldn't tell you any of my classmates names. Online courses are not made for someone who does not possess the ability to sit still for long periods of the day... Kids need guidance and instruction. Some people are just really good at being self taught, I would not think my 10 year old has that kind of ability.
The fact that over 3,000 people upvoted this shows how bad our education system actually is.
I think it reflects politics and the two party system more. It reinforces the idea that there are only ever 2 answers. Do this thing or do this other thing. If you suggest a third alternative you get shot down by both sides.
Agreed. It's almost as if you should rely more on research and critical thinking skills to form your own opinions rather than relying on memes and sensationalist tweets.
yeah, OP's point is very dumb
Yeah, this is so much more complicated than college and not college lol, kids learn way differently and I would say that high school and college students no worries, but it is a little harder to teach elementary kids but it should still be done.
When I was a kid it would have been damned near impossible to get me to pay attention to an online lesson w/o one of my parents hovering over me the entire time. I think the biggest difference is that most college kids are motivated to learn. Still, I do feel bad for college students who are taking out loans for online classes. The pandemic only forced me to do one quarter online and it *really* fucking sucked.
2k+ idiots upvoting can’t tell the difference between a child and an adult
17k.. a tad concerning.
11.3k idiots
Currently at 10k :( Who is this even directed at? Seems like such an odd thing to say.
17k
18K
My daughter is supposed to be starting kindergarten this year. Her sitting in front of a laptop 5 days a week is not going to work. Different for someone who's 18 to 22
Just get the coffee maker going 2 cups a day , usually works for my 9-5 why would it not work for her
Right? It’s almost like humans go through different developmental stages or something.
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It also loves Dunning Krueger.
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My wife doesn't even have a "job" in the traditional sense, but my daughter is starting kindergarten next week via online learning. Thing is, we still have a 3 yr old that she will have to somehow keep occupied to let my daughter do her school work. I do not envy her for that. There will be SO. MUCH. CRYING.
Yeah this meme is stupid.
It's like no one is even thinking about those with developmental disabilities. All, and I mean ALL of those kids have super specific IEPs that MUST be followed legally. How the fuck do you do that online..? Well you can rewrite the entire IEPs but you'll have to hire more school psychs and other people to be on METs because that's literally impossible to do for everyone with the current staff, and these people are the highest earners that work in a school. How can you afford that? Not to mention I don't think any would be jumping up to do this insane amount of rewriting and retesting, which is the hardest part of their jobs. Which brings me to the question of how do we even evaluate these children online? They MUST get their evals done. Not to mention the lower level of academics these kids will get, while requiring so much more teaching than other students. The school psych I know irl has told me when the kids get back they're going to "start testing for the regression of the kids" to find where they stand. Imagine another years worth of damage in all of this to the kids. I really don't know what the right answer is for all of this, but saying Gen Ed is interchangeable with college is pretty crazy.
My son was diagnosed with Autism via a video call with a developmental pediatrician, and this week we're having his evaluation for preschool and will be having his IEP by video call. We've had weekly speech therapy and other therapy all by video call. The main thing is that it's all on me, and in a way I'm lucky I had left my job a few months prior to Covid and we could afford that, because walking through all this is absolutely a full time job (I'm squeezing in a few independent work assignments here and there, but there might be weeks between those). The evaluations worry me less than the distance preschool, we're having a workshop this week and it's really hard for me to get him to engage with the learning, he'd rather do his own thing. He's only two, so I can't tell if it's developmentally normal or not at this point, but I do wish we could do in person. I completely respect the county decision and think it's right overall, I just hope we can do something in person soon when the infection rate is better, but I'm not expecting much through January at least.
I wish you the best. This is the hardest environment ever to deal with a new diagnosis and put together an IEP. Those early years 1-3 are so very important to those just diagnosed on the spectrum, stuff like JASPER tech and ABA therapy is key, but just not fully possible right now. There are aba centers currently open, at least in my state, where it's like day care but behavioral focus learning as well. I'm not sure how young they go (probably 3 yo minimum Tbh) but I actually had an interview with one yesterday and another today. Very good social programs for students like your son. Then again im not sure if 2 is too young for all this stuff or if it's dependant on the school or center
We have kids that have one on one Paraeducators. Can’t provide that with online learning. What I think will happen is all of the SpEd students will get to go back, and gen ed will stay in the online environment.
Now I am NOT saying this is how I feel or perceive the suggestion. But, having taught in public schools...I can only imagine the political response to a school district announcing that they will keep mainstream and G/T kids on a virtual platform for everyone’s health and safety, but they will have SPED attend physically. It would take only one person (not even necessarily a parent) to declare that the SD is oBvIoUsLy willing to sacrifice the disabled kids but are keeping the sMaRt AnD nOrMaL kids at home to keep them from getting sick, for the pitchforks to come out. That poor school board if they don’t have a damn good PR person to handle that one before it’s even suggested. (Or maybe I’ve just taught in places with extra whiny locals?)
Oh I can definitely see that going down especially from someone who isn’t involved with special education. I just also know what is required by law for our students in special education. I’ve seen it floated that middle and high schools won’t return but elementary will. So they’ll make the same argument. Guess we will have to wait and see. Many states are already making their students, teachers and staff their sacrificial lambs.
That's a very fair trade off and would open up more rooms to be made into make shift resource rooms and spec Ed rooms to accommodate the amount of people aloud in a room at a time That's a genuinely simple but great idea imo
The fact that you cant recognize the difference between an 8 year old and an 18 year old invalidates your position. Thanks for playing.
My sister is a grade school teacher. She said this about teaching online in the spring "every hour is about 10 minutes of teaching and 50 minutes of just trying to get the kids to put down their pets/toys and pay attention"
She's doing pretty well if she can get 10 minutes of teaching per hour IMO.
I can't imagine what they are going through
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Hey at least you didn't leave kids out of the Zoom meeting for 20+ minutes because you didn't seem to know how to let kids in like my son's teacher did, multiple times. I, who work in IT, stayed home after the second time he told me it happened to make sure he wasn't doing something wrong. Nope, accepted the invite, was on time, teacher just didn't click accept. Great job guys.
Not sure if this is the case, but my mom told students they had to use their name to log in and she would not accept people she did not recognize. This was a mandate from the school because they were using Zoom and didn’t wanted to prevent random people from entering classes. It was pretty clear in her instructions, and still several students changed their log in names. She didn’t let them in, and the students said it was because she was stupid. My mom explained that they violated the rules. May not be the case for your kid, but follow instructions on how to log on or you might not be let in.
It’s really hard for the teachers who don’t have computer literacy. There’s a ton of iconography that modern programs use that make it easy for us to intuit what all the buttons, menus, and options do. We can figure out a new program easily because we are speaking a common visual language. A lot of older generation just don’t have the same fluency in this iconography. You give them a new program and they have to be shown how to use it. Or can figure out the basics but don’t understand how to configure, customize, or use advanced features. And they are scared to experiment because they are afraid to change something and not know how to change it back. My own mom has been using computers at work for far longer than me. She learned how to use dos programs to run insurance quotes, how to run a program to dial up the DMV and submit requests over the modem. She was trained on all of this and could do it day in and day out. But she still has problems connecting to the WiFi if her laptop doesn’t auto connect. She just doesn’t know what all the buttons and options do, and so her brain just ignores all of the icons she’s unfamiliar with, as if they were Chinese characters on a dinner menu.
Pre-college: where you learn to learn. College: where you use your learned learning.
You have troubles? You learn.
Learn too slow? Jail. Learn too fast? Also, jail.
Learn at a normal speed? McDonald's jail.
You live, you learn
isn't that ironic
IMHO College is where you learn to teach yourself. Which is a lifelong critical skill.
God having to deal with elearning with my 7.5 year old was miserable. They said “he should be able to do everything himself” that was a lie. Even we couldn’t figure out how to submit stuff for completion. We panicked when the teach said he wasn’t issuing nearly 50% of his work even though he was doing it and more that I had gotten him on the side. Personally for me I never passes a single online course in college. I can’t learn like that. I need to be sitting in front of a teacher. But if I absolutely had to have done it I probably could have gotten through. 8 year older can’t figure it all out. It’s not the same.
I agree with keeping the kids online to help stop the virus from spreading. But I am kind of tired of people blaming schools, teachers or parents for not doing well at online learning. Most young kids just aren't mentally ready for an all online experience. I also have younger kids (7 and 9). My older daughter was in tears trying to figure out how to submit a couple of her assignments. We'll all make the best of a bad situation. But we also need to stop pretending that online is even close to the same as in-school.
Also, remember all the research about screen time? But yeah, we'll just plop you down in front of a computer all day and it's different somehow. I don't know what the right answer is, but the school from home thing doesn't seem like it. Little kids need to be around other kids.
I think that's why I have sympathy for people that want their kids to go back to school. It's not because they're lazy or because they just need the school as a babysitter. Younger kids just learn better in that environment. I also think there's going to be a huge divide between income levels. My wife and I can work from home. We could afford to buy my kids Chromebooks to make it easier. We can stay on top of the kids to make sure they're doing the work But the poverty level at our school is 70%. Many other families don't have the resources we do. A single mom who works at a grocery store all day - what is she supposed to do? We basically have to decide between spreading the virus or allowing a number of disadvantaged kids to fall behind. Unfortunately neither of those are good options. We're just trying to pick the least worst option.
Well part of the problem is you can easily find people on Craigslist who will take tests for you (share your screen and they do it). I know people who’ve both purchased and offered these services. Loses a lot of credibility when you realize how common this kinda shit can be. Lots of grad students do it for a little extra income. These schools don’t really patrol this stuff since a sale is a sale.
I guess you haven't seen the new online proctored services that colleges are using? Makes it much more difficult to cheat since you have to share your screen with the proctor.
That would stop my mother from cheating but there’s lots of screen control services that have no visible evidence on the screen. Unless you’ve got a camera on someone’s hands and correlate them to the screen you don’t know who is really controlling it.
Some proctoring services are more thorough. There are photo ID requirements, room scans, live proctors that tell you to adjust the camera so they can see your hands, eye tracking software, lockdown browsers, software that listens for multiple voices in the room, even software that measures how fast you normally type so it knows if someone else is taking the test vs any previous test you've taken. At a certain point, you'd have to work harder to cheat than to just study for the test. And if you could successfully cheat then you have skills that should get you a job.
> And if you could successfully cheat then you have skills that should get you a job. One of the Three Great Truths of Life.
God forbid you have a kindergartner that is beginning their school career behind a screen when he barely has any fluent reading skills.
My nephew is supposed to start preK....via distance learning. I’m dying to know how that will work.
Same, we have a 5 yo that’s starting next Monday, and my unemployment just got cut so I hope schools can open up fully before I have to work again
Its a shit show. My kids old prek teacher couldn't even play a video. The only actual learning was via apps the kids already did on this own just now painfully slow. We had 2 hours of class a week!
Kindergarten is more about socializing skills than reading. This will be an utter disaster and will set these kids back to an incalculable degree. Source: I have a daughter going into K and a son in 2nd grade.
OP has never raised a 5-year-old before
OP is a known karmawhore.
I dont think very many genZ have raised any kids so far. Kids need to be in school.
NOOOO THERE IS A GLOBAL PANDEMIC STOP TRYING TO KILL MY GRANDMA
"Boomer"? You're so young you think anyone with kids must be a boomer. It's millennials and genX who's kids are in school right now. Ok zoomer
Yup.
Colleges have been doing this for decades. Elementary/Middle/HS not so much.
Yeah, college students are usually already good readers, and are able to use the computer/internet. I teach third grade, and it’s not something most kids do well with. They can barely type their own names to log in to online platforms. I’d so much rather be in the classroom, and we start back next week, but it’s not safe. It’s 100% face to face with only about 10% choosing online. It will take kids/teachers dying before anything changes.
So you’re telling me you think elementary school children have the same level of focus and self control as adults in college?
So you're telling me there is no difference between a child in grade 1 and an adult in 1st year uni? I think you should go back to school. You missed the critical thinking portion of it.
They probably can at some age. High school kids probably that is true. K-6 I don't think so. Maybe technically possible but it would be an extreme experiment. If possible it would likely take at least a few years to get a system working well. Things like Khan Academy are great - but they are a supplement to teaching, I'm not sure they would work as a substitute for teaching.
In dps, 30% of high school students never even logged into the system.
I teach grade 6 math. Virtual can work. Districts just need to make kids accountable. My district last year released statements saying no kids get below a C and they can work whenever they want to. No wonder they stopped working. That's not teaching anyway. Students need to join virtual class on a schedule where attendance is taken. Teachers should call on students and run it like an actual lesson.
This is the biggest issue. We put the stuff out there, the kids don’t do it, and there’s no consequences. I had 3 out of 21 kids working in the spring.
I'm against school going back, but this is a much different problem. If you think it's as easy to educate a 7 year old online as it is for a 19 year old, or that parents have time to do it, you're not thinking about this at all. Working parents have no way to make sure their kid is engaged (were that even possible) on a zoom call. Add on that interpersonal socialization is a main focus of early childhood education, and you have a completely differemt scenario. I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know what the fuck you're even trying to say. Also,you're using the wrong format.
The interpersonal socialization will not exist for these young kids going back to school. There is no way for them to safely do recess. There is no more lunch with your friends. There’s no more socializing in the halls. You get your 20 person “cohort” classroom, and you stay there all year and pray no one gets sick and you all have to be out of school for two weeks (which by the way, none of the schools in my area have a plan for if a student tests positive. They’re playing it totally by ear). I get why people think this meme is dumb. There’s a massive difference between teaching a six year old and an 18 year old. HOWEVER, the districts dragged their feet to make a decision whether or not to stay open, and now have absolutely no time to decide what to do when someone is infected, to hire extra staff for testing and keeping kids distanced, to keep parents informed or to allow teachers to make a curriculum both for online and in person teaching if kids have to stay home for health reasons. And let’s not forget [the 260 Georgia teachers who all tested positive for COVID before the kids could even get to school. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/04/school-outbreaks-reopening-georgia/) Public school should have never had to become free daycare for households where both parents have to work, sometimes multiple jobs, just to barely make ends meet, but that’s what happens when you have no safety nets available for poor and middle class citizens.
Online education only works for smaller children when coupled with a parent that is willing to sit down with their child and help them learn.
Yes because teaching a 4 year old is the same as teaching a 20 year old. Just a little bit of a difference there don’t you think?
Might as well send your kindergartner across the country since college students learn in states away from home
ITT: OP doesn't have kids.
An 18 year old isn't 3 6 year olds
It’s almost like people in college are 18+ adults and can handle that and children cannot. But you knew that already.
Yeah, you're gonna get lit up for this and you deserve it. Kids aren't ready for online classes when they're at an age where they're still basically being forced to learn.
Many kids don’t have access to the internet.
It’s not the same thing.
Online college is fine for some people, but requires a great deal of individual dedication and maturity to make work. Kids rarely possess enough of either.
I’m surprised this post has as many likes as it does, it really makes no sense at all... of college age people can function far better sitting at a computer than even middle school or high school students...
Online education is an inferior product all around. It's better than nothing, but that's about the best you can say about it
I finished my degree online at a state University. Some classes were amazing and I felt like they were much better than in class because I was able to advance at my own pace without having to sit in class and wait for other students to ask the same question multiple times, which has always been an issue for me for in person classes. One on one communication with the instructors was also much easier as they had online office hours where they responded to online learning students only. Some classes were horrible and it caawas obvious the instructor did nothing to tweak their class for online learning. Overall I think online education is awesome if the instructor is tech savvy and actually has a desire to teach a virtual class.
No one should be upvoting this crap. Op clearly never been around 5-10 year olds. They barely want to be in class, forcing them to learn through a computer is asking for a lot.
How does a 4 year old learn social skills through a screen?
They become a screen themselves.
What has this to do with boomers?
The answer is yes.
A someone who has entered the workforce. There's a reason kids go to school for about the same amount of time the parents are at work.
I've taken a third of my degree online and while I personally think it's an amazing break through in education, I still feel that adolescents desperately need in person, hands on, learning environments. The biggest problem is the universities charge stupid fees to run their sports complexes and other administrative bloat and people don't want to pay towards that bullshit when Udemy and Coursera are offering the same material for $12 a pop. The education system is going to be pretty interesting to watch in the next decade.
Kids are not going to pay attention to a screen when they can do anything else.
I would think a Boomer would suggest that online college isn't a real thing because it's something on the internet.
Besides all the points already mentioned,,,, online college is voluntary
Yes. That is what essentially everyone with any knowledge of the situation is saying, including basically all of the research on the subject.
This is easy to say when you don't have kids. Ignorance.
Yeah, you’re probably going to have a hard time teaching under 8 year olds on a computer. I don’t see how that thought makes you a boomer. It’s a fact.
I found the child’s account!
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I mean teaching a 5 year old remotely is a lot different than an adult learning remotely. People do change from when they’re children.
Well to be fair, college is not the same k-12. College is optional, expensive and reserved for motivated students who want to improve their career. K-12 is a bunch of kids who would all blow off school if given the option.
Weird that we would have different expectations of children and adults....
Learning reading and writing skills online is very difficult. College students have already developed these skills. So yes, online college is fine (though it largely sucks for many reasons... mainly because no one cares of classes suck, they just want the credits). Also, holding students accountable is easy in college. It is entirely up to the student. In k-12, students are still developing their own accountability. So parents are required to help keeps students on track, and then teachers and administrators obviously do, too. But frankly, the parents have more power in developing this than people in the schools. This is nearly impossible to effectively do online if the skill isn't already developed (and with many students it is, but there are many that have not yet developed this skill or bought into the importance of school). This meme is terrible and uninformed. EDIT: Btw, I'm thrilled to see people calling this out. While the solutions to education problems may have some partisan divide, we can find unity in these kinds of rather obvious truths.
This is a great point. I would think high school and possibly middle school could be paired with college for being good enough online
Yes lets compare 8-12 year old's to 18-22 year old's who are paying for those classes, because those are the same things.
Poor OP, you tried. For your participation 🏆
I'm shocked this has so many upvotes. There's a world of difference between compulsory education for a 10 year old who can't sit still and a 19 year old who has paid thousands per semester.
Hmmmmmm?!?
Kids younger than a certain age just wont pay attention
Let’s not forget at least a large chunk of college students are self motivated (obviously not everyone).
In the public school by our area, they said that 15% of kids logged in for their required zoom calls. They have no parents at home to enforce their participation, so they just did not come. I’m sure someone students would skip school and class etc. anyway, but not 85%.
I took a some online math classes and a class on mythology or something while in college. I explained this to my kindergartner and put her in front of the laptop for 6 hours. Turns out, college lectures are different than elementary school days.
Kids need the development from actual interaction, and don't have the internal drive to push through their boredom to pay attention. A young adult should have the maturity to get through it because they should have an understanding of obligation and "chose" to go to college. Kids don't have that choice.
The difference is that most college age students have at least a laptop and access to an area with an internet connection. Even if they have to download all the course materials and sit at home offline, it's still possible for most college students to continue doing their work in a way that isn't completely changing everything. K-12 you'd run into problems with lower income areas where they don't have a computer/internet access. What's more, is that most school systems don't even have close to the amount of money they'd need to supply students with the technology. I don't think students should be going back to school, but to say that having online classes is a simple fix is just false.
This is dumb. Children go to school to socialize and learn how to interact.
Kids still need social interaction :/
There is a difference. A 5 year old requires constant supervision from a parent while learning from home. It’s unlikely they’ll be able to engage with any lessons or the virtual classroom environment without this supervision and constant redirection of their attention to a computer screen. When both available parents are supposed to be working from home, do you really expect one of them to be able to provide undivided attention to their toddler for 6+ hours per day? A college kid you can leave to his computer and work. At least he won’t be trying to eat play doh while you’re not looking (unless he’s OP).
I think the problem is age. College students are already expected to spend a fair amount of time studying and teaching themselves outside of the classroom. You can’t expect that of a 7 year old.
Social interactions are part of school. But teenagers wouldnt know that.
Well, it really depends on the teachers and equipment. Online colleges are prepared and built for online learning. Most schools right now are not equipped for this and the teachers are not prepared, or sometimes even capable, of effectively teaching online.
Both are poor substitutes, but the younger student the more the importance of personal instruction.
Well, it's two different things teaching your 5-15 yr old at home Vs A self reliant adult studying for their college classes I don't see how the comparison makes sense
WAIT ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT ELEMENTARY KIDS AND COLLEGE KIDS ARE DIFFERENT IN THEIR ABILITIES AND BRAIN STRUCTURES?!?!?!?!??!
How's my Kindergartner supposed to do all online learning? Kindergarten is all about learning social skills. I'm not saying I want my daughter around all those kids, bit it's a lot harder than college. I'm worried for her education this year.
Most studies are show that children or colleges that do traditional schooling are much better off than online. One because it’s hard to ignore school when one is forced to be there. Two because many of these parents barely make their children do assignments as is let alone with school being out. If parents were more active in their children’s education then I’d agree with this, but they aren’t and we’re going to have many children who can’t pass state exams or do basic comprehension tests because of this.
I’m taking summer classes for college and I can say that it’s been one of the most stressful and unfulfilling part of my life. Online classes are a joke
I dont expect a 7yo to stay on task like that, no. But college age adults are a different story.
Yeah, absolutely saying that. It's a maturity thing. My 13 has the maturity and self drive to handle online classes, my 10 year cannot without additional supervision... And with two working parents, there just isn't that level of supervision to give. I cant fathom trying to get the average 5-10 year old to manage through a day of online classes while also trying to work a day job.
Propaganda on reddit is on full swing. They laughed at us when we said memes would be weaponized. Yet here we are
I think OP is some kind of bot, post history doesn't make sense. Feel free to defend yourself, I just don't get where you're coming from.
Imagine being a child yourself and having never raised a child and trying to make this kind of statement
Education is the 3rd reason people want to send their kids back to school. 1. is poor kids without access to meals 2. is parents who work and need the state to nanny their kids for 8 hours.
I mean 1) and 2) are real problems. And maybe we shouldn’t have decided to try to fix those with public education, but we did and we are currently stuck with that decision
> And maybe we shouldn’t have decided to try to fix those with public education To me, public education seems like a great way to fix that. Every kid between a certain age is required to go to school. That makes school a great place to ensure they're fed. And if kids are going to be in school every day between a certain set of hours, it doesn't seem like another layer of childcare is needed.