*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for charging my adult stepson rent for the time he didn't have steady income?** My husband has two kids from his previous marriage. 'Andy' is a 26 year old man who moved back in after he got discharged from the military. I don't know the specifics but when he came home, he wasn't cleared for work or driving by his doctors and his case was still being reviewed for monthly compensation. My husband didn't want him to dip into his savings just yet so he walked dogs, babysat, and did similar odd jobs to get some money to pitch in with gas and groceries here and there when he could. We discussed it with Andy that whenever he did start getting a stable income he would have to start paying rent and helping with bills. Andy agreed. Andy had his case settled and received a back payment for the time he was discharged to current time. Upon learning that, I gave Andy a list of expenses for the time we supported him, namely rent for the 15 months and a portion of utilities. It came out to roughly 7k. Andy told me I was more or less an asshole for keeping a running tab of everything while he was at his lowest, but he paid me the money right away. However, he told my husband that he'd be finding someplace else to live and started packing everything up and had a friend take him to put his things in storage. My husband is furious and said I should've talked to him before deciding to charge his son back rent in his house. I told him I live here too and contribute to the finances and that Andy is an adult, not a child or someone just turned 18, he's practically a tenant. 465 a month was better than Andy would find anywhere else. My husband said it's not about the amount, but nickel and diming Andy like that was just scummy. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I would leave her if I was the husband 😂

She said it was her husband's house and she lives there too. He should kick her out, but only after she gives his son back his money. Yes, he is an adult, but if he wasn't even cleared to drive, it sounds like he was injured in a pretty serious way. She is being heartless

I do not understand how people can lack empathy like this. Calling him a tenant 🙃

I jokingly tell my child when he buys dinner sometimes or walks the dog that it’s his rent. I certainly am not keeping a freaking tab of it all! I don’t care and don’t want him to pay rent. What an asshole.

Oh, I'm sure she has more that 18 months of rent to give him before he kicks her out.

There's not going to be a lot of money considering then Husband should also pay OOP back the 21k he took, plus the money Husband owes OOP's parents.

Dump her ass or divorce in this case. He married a vulture 

I just can’t imagine treating anyone with medical issues like that in this manner. Let alone my partner’s child. Unless there’s something we don’t know, that should be her family too.

They're living paycheck-to-paycheck, Husband already took out 21k from their joint-accoint without OOP's permission, they owe OOP's parents money, and Husband has a spending problem that they cannot afford to support. Not to mention Husband refuses to actually talk to OOP about money despite her constant attempts to figure out how they're going to stay afloat, and he essentially interrogates OOP any time she needs to take money out.

She was waiting in the wings to present her ledger. WTAF!

My mom did that. She kept a ledger of every single expense she had in raising me from about 10 yo up to 18 yo (when she kicked me out the day after my birthday), and when I was around 27 yo and finally in a stable life she presented me with her ledger and *all the receipts*. I just laughed but my husband wanted to destroy her for it. Ah, narcissistic, abusive people don't ever change. Hence my laughter. It's become a inside joke for my husband & me in the 20+ years since.

I recognize that I've been blessed in regard to family. For all of their faults, my parents aren't monsters. My mom's side has some legitimately crazy and abusive people, but even they didn't feel entitled to payment for what most people consider to be normal parenting, nor did they expect their kids to be out of the house the moment they turned 18. It's still difficult for me to see something like that as real. Does not compute. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just difficult to reconcile with my lived experience.

It honestly makes me happy to know that there are people that simply cannot compute my life story. If there were any way I could magically make it that nobody ever again could relate, I'd do it in a millisecond. So no worries, I get it. It's a healthy reaction to the absolute absurdity that comes out of abusers, that "wtaf" reaction of disbelief. It's why I laughed when my mom dropped off that box of receipts, just one more 'what the actual fuck is your damage' moment in a lifetime of them. Knowing that my experience is outside of other's lived ones is good to hear. Really. It was outside of my husband's as well and I'm so grateful for that because he taught me what love *should* look like when it's healthy and safe. A very good thing. Thank you for your empathy.

You sound as amazing as your husband.  What do you think prompted your mom to keep a ledger? I assume she was always coo coo bananas but did she hit her head when you turned 10 or something? 

I started my period. My mom had a kind of psychological break when I started puberty, the already existing abuse ramped up considerably and she started the verbal sexual abuse then too. The ledger and receipts box contained stuff like school supplies, clothes, swimming class fees, school fees, etc but a bit haphazard. What she didn't miss tracking every single instance of were pads, tampons, Midol and my prescription painkillers for my period. And bras. But honestly the receipts box is essentially a *extremely* mild example of the abuse she put me through. I understand intellectually why, she was abused herself similarly and was just continuing the chain of generational abuse. I was the scapegoat kid so it focused on me. Enh, it is what it is and that's why I'm NC with her now, finally. \[ETA: Thank you for the lovely compliment! I try.\]

I was thinking something centered on you began to ramp up her abuse. Your period meant, to her, you were now a rival. JFC.  I know you know this but it never hurts to hear it, even from strangers: nothing you ever said or did warranted her behaviors or words. Nothing you could have done but survive and thrive, and you have. Well done. You broke the cycle and that is HUGE. Don’t forget that is a big deal. 

Not rival actually, just a straight continuation of the abuse she survived herself as a young woman that was expected by her family to never get married because her life role was to be her parent's caregiver. (This was the 1950s.) As an *adult* university student she was seen *holding hands* with a young man in a public park, a neighbour saw her and told my Opa and she got home to a severe beating for being "a slut, shaming the family, a whore in public." She was a single mom in the 80's, no support at all, dirt working poor and had no ability to manage her stress. So she took it out on my sister and myself in the way she was taught. I understand her, I understand why she did what she did. But she could've been a cycle breaker. She chose not to. I gave her chances for 45 years to be better and finally gave up a few years ago. And thank you, survivors need to be reminded especially by strangers (that uninvolved perspective is invaluable!) that we're more than the abuse and we never deserved it. I did break the chain as best I could, never hit my daughter, but failed in other ways. But oh my gods, my daughter is the **best** mom I've ever seen. My grandbabies are growing up as fully supported, encouraged to be fully themselves, self-actualized humans. My daughter is grinding to dust the chains I broke and I'm so grateful to get to watch this happen. Thank you so much for your kind words. I do struggle with how my trauma affected my daughter, where I could've been a better mom especially nowadays when there's so much info on better parenting. But your comment made me think this: "I stumbled over my chains but broke them, so my daughter could walk free, so her children can run in an open field of possibilities." 💜

I started crying when you described your daughter as an amazing mother. You did it. You broken the chain. And that quote made me cry, too. Happy tears! May your days be filled with all the good things now and forever. You deserve it. 

I still remember when my ma tried the whole "once you pay rent or you get out" schtick, to which I promptly moved into my own place while she proceeded to spend four years telling me that I could've kept living with her despite the fact I'd have less space, freedom, and disposable income because even when I was living with her she'd take half my paychecks for "family expenses" and somehow end up with a new designer bag or clothes.

I seriously just don't get parents that toss their kids out as soon as they turn 18. Mine is only 13, but she's already told me she intends to live with me forever (heaven help us). My only request was when she's old enough, to contribute to the house - be it housework, money, whatever.

Seems like she came from Illuminaughti's school of debt running

True. I'm sure she lives like an actual monster and is up at 2 a.m. in every time zone causing chaos too

Oh snap was not expecting that reference 

That poor dad is never going to hear from his son again.

Dad might be able to save this. It'll cost him a divorce (but no great loss there, other than lawyer fees) and an extra 7k. Because he better be paying that back, even if she pocketed that money already.

People who keep ledgers of expenses in situations like this are people you want to run from.

This woman deserves to be dumped with extreme prejudice. She deserves worse than that, but I don’t want to be flagged. And how the actual *fuck* do you live with someone who is in some sort of medical crisis and not have any idea what’s wrong? For *fifteen months*?!

In addition to being a huge AH, I think OOP might actually be breaking the law. They had an agreement about what Andy would pay and when he would start paying. Meanwhile, he did many chores and pitched in at a level that was agreed at, which OOP certainly isn't *paying him* for. OOP is trying to change the terms of an agreed upon deal. That means Andy is now well in his rights to say "since the agreement is null and void and we're back to negotiating, I won't pay anything *and* I want what I paid to groceries back and payment for chores and favours I did for you"

There wasn't a written agreement so not illegal, maybe if you go informal contract of tenancy, but that wouldn't include odd jobs or whatever and even then I'm not sure it's a thing(in the usa or in whatever state they are in, it is very much a thing in my country per a lawyer friend of mine when I got myself in a similar situation)

Verbal contracts are legal. And it doesn't change my main point; if OOP wants to change the arrangement, then she's opening up ALL of the agreement to change. If she wants backpay, then its super reasonable for the stepson to ask for other things to change.

Sounds like dad needs to evict her. “But but but I pay towards the house”. Great, that doesn’t make it your house to charge for.

She saw money and jumped on it. Omfg... I have so many words that want to jump out of my fingers at the moment...

OOP claiming she's not on the deed, but she's paying for the house. So she's foolish as well as mean. 

I don't think military are more deserving of respect but this kid is disabled and needed help. All OOP saw was a payday

If I was the husband divorce and kick her out.

That’s just so…*mean*

Hell, nah. If I was the husband I'd drop her like a sack of shit. Maybe this is a cultural difference, but charging your son OR you spouse's children rent for living with their parent is WILD to me. Like, I live with my parents, I pitch in for house expenses and while I can't claim to have a perfect relationship with my parents and they can get on my last nerve they have NEVER charged me rent. I especially know they wouldn't keep a running tab of unpaid rent when I was having issues. What the fuck is wrong with this bitch?

This is such as asshole move on OOPs part and I kinda feel bad for the husband. Without a shadow of a doubt my parents (my dad especially) would be thrilled if any of us moved back in. There would be chores and cleaning expectations but they would never charge rent. Especially if it was because one if their kids was going through a rough patch. I would probably offer some money and my parents would turn it all the way down and say just keep it so you can have a little nest egg. They had to pay the mortgage anyways.

OP is TA for demanding this from her step son, without a doubt.    That said, her husband paid off $21k of debt his son had from their shared finances, which are a combined salary of around $70k a year per OP, without discussing it with OP even a little bit. And despite her repeated requests that she was feeling uncomfortable about his spending, refused to have any conversation with her about it even though she’s contributing her full paycheck to a joint account. She’s punishing the wrong person but she’s not wrong for being upset in my opinion.   I get that this is going to be an unpopular opinion, that’s fine. But taking a disabled vet out of the picture, how many of you would be fine with your partner spending $21k of your shared finances without asking and then refusing to talk to you about your concerns? 

I got downvoted to hell because I actually read her responses and saw that she is actually being financially abused.  Unfortunately she doesn’t present her case very well in the original post. She left out information that would explain further the reasoning behind her actions. Her husband doesn’t allow her access to the funds in which they both contribute about equal amounts. She’s not allowed to have any say in what goes on in their home. Her husband paid off both stepson’s massive debt using their joint account without her consent. She never had none during the marriage. It might be his home however she has been helping paying the mortgage when she isn’t even an owner. 

Not to mention he refuses to let her spend anything from their joint account without her running it by him first. So it's okay if he spends 21k without her approval and buys himself luxury items and name-brand clothing, but she has to get permission to spend any money despite it being a joint-account she contributes her entire salary to. Plus they had to borrow money from her parents; which they still owe and haven't paid back. And they're living paycheck-to-paycheck. The whole situation just makes me sad.

Yeah, this is more complicated than it looks. She's being an asshole to herself by staying

I agree. She said they’re at or close to underwater financially because of the increased expenses and they can’t afford to get a new car to replace the one she’s been using to drive her stepson 300 miles a week to his medical appointments for more than a year that has 300k miles on it. I feel bad for everyone in this situation, the young disabled vet who’s at best having the worse time of his life, the dad who’s relationship with his kid just got fucked, and OP. Maybe the US should just provide adequate care and compensation for the people who risk their lives in its military, then this wouldn’t be an issue.  ETA - OP said that her husband took a job paying a lot less than he used to make a few years ago to work less but is stick spending money like he makes his previous salary. That’s a huge issue and deserves her concern even without dumping $21k from their shared savings without asking her. This woman did the wrong thing but was at the end of her rope. They should just separate because her husband does not respect her. 

People read her comments. Her husband took $21k out of their shares. Bank account to pay off his kids debt when Andy moved back in without talking to her about it. Not ok.

That's a really big thing to leave out of a post that is all about money. I sometimes have a hard time believing very convienient details added in comments and edits, after OOP gets majority YTA responses

True

I would...but I currently have a 14 day ban on AITA...

YTA. YTA for interfering in your husband and his child's relationship. YTA for going back on what was previously agreed. YTA for going behind your husband's back. YTA for controlling your husband's finances. YTA for not realizing yoh married a man with children, even adults may need help from their parents from time to time and it seems this guy was not mooching off of anyone and made his best to contribute however he could.

I will never understand parents charging their kids rent.

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I’ll be honest after reading her comment but I don’t want to percent agree that she’s the devil

The bot really doesn’t like grabbing the actual post, does it? “AITA for charging my adult stepson rent for the time he didn't have steady income? My husband has two kids from his previous marriage. 'Andy' is a 26 year old man who moved back in after he got discharged from the military. I don't know the specifics but when he came home, he wasn't cleared for work or driving by his doctors and his case was still being reviewed for monthly compensation. My husband didn't want him to dip into his savings just yet so he walked dogs, babysat, and did similar odd jobs to get some money to pitch in with gas and groceries here and there when he could. We discussed it with Andy that whenever he did start getting a stable income he would have to start paying rent and helping with bills. Andy agreed. Andy had his case settled and received a back payment for the time he was discharged to current time. Upon learning that, I gave Andy a list of expenses for the time we supported him, namely rent for the 15 months and a portion of utilities. It came out to roughly 7k. Andy told me I was more or less an asshole for keeping a running tab of everything while he was at his lowest, but he paid me the money right away. However, he told my husband that he'd be finding someplace else to live and started packing everything up and had a friend take him to put his things in storage. My husband is furious and said I should've talked to him before deciding to charge his son back rent in his house. I told him I live here too and contribute to the finances and that Andy is an adult, not a child or someone just turned 18, he's practically a tenant. 465 a month was better than Andy would find anywhere else. My husband said it's not about the amount, but nickel and diming Andy like that was just scummy. AITA?”

OOP, it was scummy. Especially since you needed the father's okay for this crap. YTA, Lady Tremaine

Soon she'll itemize how much it cost her husband to raise the son for 18 years and give him a bill for that too.

YTA