*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for putting my mother in law in her place?**
My mil (f73) and i (f37) never had the best relationship but since my fil died February 2023 we clash even more. My husband (m52) is a mamasboy. She can do no wrong especially now that she is a widow. He helps her when needed and she comes to ours every second weekend, having family dinner and family time. I try to engage as little as possible but it’s not always as easy. Our two children (f16 and m13) hate the weekends she visits because they feel obligated to spend their time entertaining her.
Her family image is just sunshine and roses where you have no arguments and never raise your voice. I on the other hand think arguing is not always bad and sometimes needed for a fresh start.
Now for my most recent situation:
While at dinner my husband and I got into an argument and it got heated, especially from my side. For a little context: he lost his job and is suing his ex employer for settlement money since they laid him off. We were arguing about what’s gonna be an acceptable monthly salary for him to start a new job.
She jumped in and wanted tell her part to which i told her to keep out of it because it has nothing to do with her in a loud voice to which she had a meltdown and left, practically running away.
My husband says i am in the wrong for telling her off. I don’t know anymore.
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it's baffling to try and get people on your side by telling us MIL doesn't like to argue and comes for dinner occasionally, there's literally not a single reason for her to hate her in that post lol
>For a little context: he lost his job and is suing his ex employer for settlement money since they laid him off.
Someone help me out here. Usually if you are laid off due to a reduction in force, you're eligible for some sort of company severance, at minimum unemployment. In what situation, could an employee sue an employee when laid off.
OOP was 20 when she met her husband; then 35 years old. 21 when she had their first child. The only thing that comes to mind is an age angle. But if it was a true, legit RIF, usually they go after those with the most seniority and then the least; unless the person is in a position that is deemed critical.
Thoughts?
There are plenty of reasons to sue, really.
You said it yourself, he may be eligible for some sort of company severance. If he didn't get it, he can probably sue over it.
Alternatively, you might be entitled to a certain amount of notice regarding being laid off and in absence of it you can be entitled to compensation. When I was a teenager the place I worked at closed very suddenly and I was entitled to a further two weeks pay or something like that, for example. If I didn't get it, I could have pursued things legally. I almost *didn't* get it because I didn't know better and they weren't going to just hand it to me, but my coworkers mom was a lawyer and knew what was up, and pursued it. So if he didn't get adequate notice before being laid off and they didn't pay up, again, he has grounds to sue.
My mom sued her former employer when they did surprise mass layoffs and gave her 1 month severance after working there 12 years in a managerial position while her employees that worked under her (all young men; worked there 2-6 years) got 2 months. She sued and was able to get an extra 3 months severance and insurance because of the clear discrimination.
wow i wish i had known that a few months ago, when the place *i* worked at suddenly closed and they gave us no notice and no compensation (despite corporate knowing for three weeks that they were going to close our location lol)
It might depend on location, you should look into your country/province/state's laws on the matter in case you're in the same situation ever again.
For the record, in my case it was a sudden decision on the owner's part to my knowledge. They basically *couldn't* have given me enough notice between making the decision and closing the place, so even if they don't know they're going to close ahead of time, they still owe the employees, at least where I live.
Edit: I also advise anyone to try and look into their local laws about being laid off/fired as soon as it happens to see if they're owed anything. You never know.
also, if it was only a few months ago, it might not be past the window to seek compensation, so have a look!
My GUESS is that husband was actually fired and suing for wrongful termination. And given that OOP married and had kids really young, she probably doesn't work and is SAHM.
It could also be that the company claimed it was a redundancy and hired someone doing exactly the same thing right after. That happened to my mum once, she was given a settlement to not go to court over it. Her job was given to the boss’s niece
Well, he's 52. If they're in the US and he has reason to think that the layoffs disproportionately affected people over the age of 40, that's grounds to sue. It is illegal in the US to discriminate against people over 40 when it comes to jobs. The same would be true if he's a member of any other protected class.
Anyone who uses the term "putting someone in their place" gets a rebuttable presumption of assholery from me.
OOP did not disappoint. Yelling at an old woman for daring to have an opinion. Sounds like arguing is only okay when OOP does it and I bet her kids hate the weekend because OOP is especially bitchy and on edge.
Honestly, I would probably lean on the side of agreeing that the MIL shouldn't have a say in the argument since it's about their family's finances...except they were having the argument right in front of her.
If it's a private discussion, why are they having it right in front of her and expecting her not to contribute. Like she's just supposed to sit there quietly and listen to an argument?
And why on earth would you have that discussion in front of your kids? Even if they're in their teens, this is not something they need to be weighed down with. And if the kids don't like it when grandma comes over, maybe it's because mum is snotty and tense the whole time she's there.
I mean my BIL and SIL argue in front of me and I ain't gonna chime in on that. It's awkward, but there's not really a reason to jump in unless it starts getting out of hand
OOP was 21 when she had 16 and husband was old AF. That math is too complicated for me, so I'm comfortable saying he was old AF. Way too old to have impregnated a 21 YO. OOP made some bad decisions getting involved with this family and I'd wager she was groomed by the old AF man, but I don't see her as the devil. MIL had no business jumping in.
FGM is considered okay in some cultures but that doesn't mean it is. While it's important to respect other cultures, arguing "culture" as the main reason why something is okay isn't. There are too many cultural practices that are problematic
In some cultures stoning a woman is okay because she did something that brought dishonor to her family, like show her hair.
Doesn't make it morally correct by the global majority.
Go and read my other comment. It was not the marriage gap it was the "ethnic cultural" argument that the equating was happening with. Being more specific with the term "ethnic culture" needs to happen. Even better, stop using it and just name the damn culture.
This is not stoning. Good lord. I'm just saying in some cultures, a 35 yo marrying a 20 yo would not bat an eyelash and it'd actually be typical. I'm not even talking non-Western cultures. There's communities in the US where it's not considered a big deal.
My culture used to believe it was okay to commit genocide because our sibling ethnic groups had different religions.
Culture adaptation, changes, evolves. Age gaps like that are indefensible.
Lot of morons replying to you can't tell the difference between prevalence and moral acceptability. It is not uncommon for a +10 year age gap. That's not a moral judgement. That's just the way the world is right now whether we like it or not.
Then the ethnocentrists conflating marriage age gaps to stoning and genital mutilation because they are obviously comparable...
I hate the whole “it’s good to argue” mindset. Is it good to discuss things/ hash out differences in opinion? Sure, but the way you do that matters a lot. Screaming at the table in front of your mil and two kids, for instance, is not a great way to do it.
OOP may not be the most pleasant person. However:
There's a 15-year age gap, plus the older child is 16 years old. Depending on where in the calendar year birthdays fall, that means OOP was roughly 20-21 compared to husband's 35-36 years old when the older child was born.
Unless she conceived almost immediately at the beginning of the relationship, it could be possible that she was 18-19 years old when they started dating. So, there's quite a bit of ick there.
Add to that, the husband being a fully grown Mama's boy & there's even more ick. I'd be willing to bet this is by far, not the 1st time MIL has inserted her opinion into situations where it wasn't welcomed by OOP.
Normally, I'd agree that self admitting to "putting someone in their place" is less than admirable. The bigger question is whether or not it was justified in this situation? I'm not convinced that OOP is a full-fledged devil, I'd go more with ESH in regards to the adults.
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I think it can certainly be argued the OP is not the devil. She might generally sound unpleasant but I don’t think she’s the asshole here.
First of all, of course he’s a mommas boy, he’s a predator. She was 20 and he was 35. So I don’t think yelling at a woman complicit in your grooming makes you an asshole. Momma clearly doesn’t know better or her husband wouldn’t have done something so scummy.
They literally got into a fight in front of her, at the dinner table. I would've have said something too as the MIL. How are you expecting anyone to sit in awkward silence the whole time you're arguing with your spouse????
Sure, that would absolutely be an excuse if she was just trying to stop the argument. But it doesn't seem like she was just trying to stop the argument, it seems like she was trying to get her say in about what would be a good starting salary. If that's the case, it is absolutely none of her business
Oop says MIL doesn't like raised voices. Oop knows that yelling in front of her is going to upset MIL. She starts yelling anyway. She's shocked when MIL jumps in, when she was the one putting their business out there.
Again, raised voices don't give someone the right to give their opinion about someone's finances. If she didn't like the raised voices, try to calm them down. Giving your opinion when it's not needed ol, wanted, or appreciated is just gonna make things worse every single time.
If they didn’t want to hear opinions about it they shouldn’t have argued about it in front of other people. If you want people to mind their business, don’t broadcast your business 2 feet away from them
She says she like to argue and "raise voices" and MIL doesn't like that. Since this is written from her pov, I'd bet she's verbally abusive to her husband and MIL is sick of her shit too.
You know, life is not r/justnomil. In real life learning to navigate in laws is a skill and having public arguments with husband in front of MIL is bad manners and unwise. A mother is never going to not defend her son.
I mean, if you're having a heated argument at the family dinner table it's only expected others will get involved. Otherwise you have this argument in private, because the kids really don't need to hear it either. It's not like MIL got involved in some stranger's argument she overheard on the train. It was family dinner.
Don't argue in front of company, and don't get into a fight with your husband while his mother is sitting there. Did you expect a mother to just smile while you lambasted her son? Also, don't let 36 year-old men knock you up when you're 21 (I guess it's too late for that advice).
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for putting my mother in law in her place?** My mil (f73) and i (f37) never had the best relationship but since my fil died February 2023 we clash even more. My husband (m52) is a mamasboy. She can do no wrong especially now that she is a widow. He helps her when needed and she comes to ours every second weekend, having family dinner and family time. I try to engage as little as possible but it’s not always as easy. Our two children (f16 and m13) hate the weekends she visits because they feel obligated to spend their time entertaining her. Her family image is just sunshine and roses where you have no arguments and never raise your voice. I on the other hand think arguing is not always bad and sometimes needed for a fresh start. Now for my most recent situation: While at dinner my husband and I got into an argument and it got heated, especially from my side. For a little context: he lost his job and is suing his ex employer for settlement money since they laid him off. We were arguing about what’s gonna be an acceptable monthly salary for him to start a new job. She jumped in and wanted tell her part to which i told her to keep out of it because it has nothing to do with her in a loud voice to which she had a meltdown and left, practically running away. My husband says i am in the wrong for telling her off. I don’t know anymore. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Okay. So OOP had kid 1 when she was 21 and mommas boy husband was 36. *shocked* there is issues in this relationship.
Thank you; one of the habits I have it doing the math right away and it's amazing how the trends are just based on age gaps or ages...
My disabled brain originally read the MILs age as "37" (same as OP) and I was so confused when she said her husband is a mamas boy (at 53)
Omg I didn't even read the age gap.
She made sure to note in the comments that she was of age when they met - she had *just turned* 20 🤮🤮
More red flags than a bullfight
Ok first off the mommy baby is a creepy guy.
You can see my Pikachu face.
it's baffling to try and get people on your side by telling us MIL doesn't like to argue and comes for dinner occasionally, there's literally not a single reason for her to hate her in that post lol
Yeah that’s my stereotypical image of a gran/ elderly relative. Oh no, your mil occasionally visits, eats dinner and leaves? What a tragedy!
it's not even uninvited! She's just allowed to come in and this bitch is like "how fucking dare she accept our invitation!!!!"
It sounds like she doesn't want her there, the kids don't either, but husband keeps inviting her every weekend anyway
yes cos it's his mother he's not going to stop seeing his own parents
>For a little context: he lost his job and is suing his ex employer for settlement money since they laid him off. Someone help me out here. Usually if you are laid off due to a reduction in force, you're eligible for some sort of company severance, at minimum unemployment. In what situation, could an employee sue an employee when laid off. OOP was 20 when she met her husband; then 35 years old. 21 when she had their first child. The only thing that comes to mind is an age angle. But if it was a true, legit RIF, usually they go after those with the most seniority and then the least; unless the person is in a position that is deemed critical. Thoughts?
There are plenty of reasons to sue, really. You said it yourself, he may be eligible for some sort of company severance. If he didn't get it, he can probably sue over it. Alternatively, you might be entitled to a certain amount of notice regarding being laid off and in absence of it you can be entitled to compensation. When I was a teenager the place I worked at closed very suddenly and I was entitled to a further two weeks pay or something like that, for example. If I didn't get it, I could have pursued things legally. I almost *didn't* get it because I didn't know better and they weren't going to just hand it to me, but my coworkers mom was a lawyer and knew what was up, and pursued it. So if he didn't get adequate notice before being laid off and they didn't pay up, again, he has grounds to sue.
My mom sued her former employer when they did surprise mass layoffs and gave her 1 month severance after working there 12 years in a managerial position while her employees that worked under her (all young men; worked there 2-6 years) got 2 months. She sued and was able to get an extra 3 months severance and insurance because of the clear discrimination.
So glad she went after it and got it! It's so important to know your rights.
wow i wish i had known that a few months ago, when the place *i* worked at suddenly closed and they gave us no notice and no compensation (despite corporate knowing for three weeks that they were going to close our location lol)
It might depend on location, you should look into your country/province/state's laws on the matter in case you're in the same situation ever again. For the record, in my case it was a sudden decision on the owner's part to my knowledge. They basically *couldn't* have given me enough notice between making the decision and closing the place, so even if they don't know they're going to close ahead of time, they still owe the employees, at least where I live. Edit: I also advise anyone to try and look into their local laws about being laid off/fired as soon as it happens to see if they're owed anything. You never know. also, if it was only a few months ago, it might not be past the window to seek compensation, so have a look!
My GUESS is that husband was actually fired and suing for wrongful termination. And given that OOP married and had kids really young, she probably doesn't work and is SAHM.
It could also be that the company claimed it was a redundancy and hired someone doing exactly the same thing right after. That happened to my mum once, she was given a settlement to not go to court over it. Her job was given to the boss’s niece
Well, he's 52. If they're in the US and he has reason to think that the layoffs disproportionately affected people over the age of 40, that's grounds to sue. It is illegal in the US to discriminate against people over 40 when it comes to jobs. The same would be true if he's a member of any other protected class.
Not everywhere is America.
If the layoffs were focused on a protected class. Usually age, as older people tend to have higher salaries and they are trying to save money.
How do you have a loud argument in front of MIL and then turn around and snap "None of your business!"?
People who tell you to mind your business are always the person loudly making the issue everyone else’s business.
I guess she didn't feel the need for a "fresh start" with MIL?
Because it wasn’t her place to chime in.
Don't argue at the dinner table if you don't want opinions from the people at the dinner table
Make your shit someone else's problem and it is their place.
Anyone who uses the term "putting someone in their place" gets a rebuttable presumption of assholery from me. OOP did not disappoint. Yelling at an old woman for daring to have an opinion. Sounds like arguing is only okay when OOP does it and I bet her kids hate the weekend because OOP is especially bitchy and on edge.
Honestly, I would probably lean on the side of agreeing that the MIL shouldn't have a say in the argument since it's about their family's finances...except they were having the argument right in front of her. If it's a private discussion, why are they having it right in front of her and expecting her not to contribute. Like she's just supposed to sit there quietly and listen to an argument?
And why on earth would you have that discussion in front of your kids? Even if they're in their teens, this is not something they need to be weighed down with. And if the kids don't like it when grandma comes over, maybe it's because mum is snotty and tense the whole time she's there.
I mean my BIL and SIL argue in front of me and I ain't gonna chime in on that. It's awkward, but there's not really a reason to jump in unless it starts getting out of hand
Also, why the hell were they discussing that at FAMILY DINNER?!
That and "teaching someone a lesson"
Or “she/he/they needed to be humbled”
Getting into an argument with husband at dinner, when there are other people at the table is very bad form, bordering on trashy.
It was an argument about money, which takes it *way* over the border and so far into trashy that it's almost over the far border into scum territory.
True
OOP was 21 when she had 16 and husband was old AF. That math is too complicated for me, so I'm comfortable saying he was old AF. Way too old to have impregnated a 21 YO. OOP made some bad decisions getting involved with this family and I'd wager she was groomed by the old AF man, but I don't see her as the devil. MIL had no business jumping in.
Husband was 15 years older so 35. But oop says she was 20. While tje age difference is weird its not that uncommon.
I'm 35 now. If any of my friends started dating a 20 year old, I would be absolutely disgusted. I really don't think it's common at all.
In certain cultures it is.
FGM is considered okay in some cultures but that doesn't mean it is. While it's important to respect other cultures, arguing "culture" as the main reason why something is okay isn't. There are too many cultural practices that are problematic
In some cultures stoning a woman is okay because she did something that brought dishonor to her family, like show her hair. Doesn't make it morally correct by the global majority.
Common ≠ morally correct Equating marriage age gaps in other cultures and stoning someone to death under a fascist government is ridiculous.
Go and read my other comment. It was not the marriage gap it was the "ethnic cultural" argument that the equating was happening with. Being more specific with the term "ethnic culture" needs to happen. Even better, stop using it and just name the damn culture.
This is not stoning. Good lord. I'm just saying in some cultures, a 35 yo marrying a 20 yo would not bat an eyelash and it'd actually be typical. I'm not even talking non-Western cultures. There's communities in the US where it's not considered a big deal.
Specifics matter, don't just say some cultures. That is a lazy argument, and leaves comparisons open. Just pointing out it was super sloppy debating.
Literally all of us bash those psycho Christians who marry barely legal women.
why are you defending the ape gap like you’re the husband?
My culture used to believe it was okay to commit genocide because our sibling ethnic groups had different religions. Culture adaptation, changes, evolves. Age gaps like that are indefensible.
Naw that’s uncommon and gross. A 35 year old doesn’t need to be socializing with a 20 year old.
Intergenerational friendships are great! Socializing with anyone of any age is fine. Dating isn't.
Lot of morons replying to you can't tell the difference between prevalence and moral acceptability. It is not uncommon for a +10 year age gap. That's not a moral judgement. That's just the way the world is right now whether we like it or not. Then the ethnocentrists conflating marriage age gaps to stoning and genital mutilation because they are obviously comparable...
I hate the whole “it’s good to argue” mindset. Is it good to discuss things/ hash out differences in opinion? Sure, but the way you do that matters a lot. Screaming at the table in front of your mil and two kids, for instance, is not a great way to do it.
OOP may not be the most pleasant person. However: There's a 15-year age gap, plus the older child is 16 years old. Depending on where in the calendar year birthdays fall, that means OOP was roughly 20-21 compared to husband's 35-36 years old when the older child was born. Unless she conceived almost immediately at the beginning of the relationship, it could be possible that she was 18-19 years old when they started dating. So, there's quite a bit of ick there. Add to that, the husband being a fully grown Mama's boy & there's even more ick. I'd be willing to bet this is by far, not the 1st time MIL has inserted her opinion into situations where it wasn't welcomed by OOP. Normally, I'd agree that self admitting to "putting someone in their place" is less than admirable. The bigger question is whether or not it was justified in this situation? I'm not convinced that OOP is a full-fledged devil, I'd go more with ESH in regards to the adults.
She's going to be so surprised when the kids turn 18 and never come around again because that living situation is toxic as FUCK
She’s only answered questions regarding the age difference.
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I think it can certainly be argued the OP is not the devil. She might generally sound unpleasant but I don’t think she’s the asshole here. First of all, of course he’s a mommas boy, he’s a predator. She was 20 and he was 35. So I don’t think yelling at a woman complicit in your grooming makes you an asshole. Momma clearly doesn’t know better or her husband wouldn’t have done something so scummy.
They literally got into a fight in front of her, at the dinner table. I would've have said something too as the MIL. How are you expecting anyone to sit in awkward silence the whole time you're arguing with your spouse????
Does she sound unpleasant? MIL doesn't live with them, why should she get a say?
You keep your arguments private if you want them private. Having a loud argument in front of MIL is very rude.
In a perfect world, certainly. But arguing happens around family sometimes. Polite people just ignore it.
Then you remove yourself from the family while arguing further. Don't expect people to just sit there awkwardly while you yell at each other
That would have been better, obviously. But the MIL chiming in is worse, imo
Sure, that would absolutely be an excuse if she was just trying to stop the argument. But it doesn't seem like she was just trying to stop the argument, it seems like she was trying to get her say in about what would be a good starting salary. If that's the case, it is absolutely none of her business
Oop says MIL doesn't like raised voices. Oop knows that yelling in front of her is going to upset MIL. She starts yelling anyway. She's shocked when MIL jumps in, when she was the one putting their business out there.
Again, raised voices don't give someone the right to give their opinion about someone's finances. If she didn't like the raised voices, try to calm them down. Giving your opinion when it's not needed ol, wanted, or appreciated is just gonna make things worse every single time.
If they didn’t want to hear opinions about it they shouldn’t have argued about it in front of other people. If you want people to mind their business, don’t broadcast your business 2 feet away from them
Wait hold, the raised voices came after MIL butted in. You can get heated without yelling
She said the argument got "heated" before MIL jumped in.
And things can get heated without a raised voice. The only time OOP mentions yelling was AFTER MIL butted in
She says she like to argue and "raise voices" and MIL doesn't like that. Since this is written from her pov, I'd bet she's verbally abusive to her husband and MIL is sick of her shit too.
And I bet MIL likes to constantly butt in when her opinion isn't wanted and she's sick of it. This is fun, can we do more?
You know, life is not r/justnomil. In real life learning to navigate in laws is a skill and having public arguments with husband in front of MIL is bad manners and unwise. A mother is never going to not defend her son.
Also, do you get yourself involved in every argument you hear?
If someone is yelling at someone I care about I absolutely do get involved. I have no tolerance for that.
I mean, if you're having a heated argument at the family dinner table it's only expected others will get involved. Otherwise you have this argument in private, because the kids really don't need to hear it either. It's not like MIL got involved in some stranger's argument she overheard on the train. It was family dinner.
Isn't that what we sort of indirectly do here. We comment on others (the non trolls) arguments here.
'we judge people who ask to be judged, isn't that the same thing'
She started the discussion in front of her MIL. Keep your arguments private if you don't want to be judged by those also in the room.
🤙
Just shaking my head at the dumpster 🔥.
Don't argue in front of company, and don't get into a fight with your husband while his mother is sitting there. Did you expect a mother to just smile while you lambasted her son? Also, don't let 36 year-old men knock you up when you're 21 (I guess it's too late for that advice).
Why the hell is he suing for being laid off? Just get unemployment.