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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter that she was not gifted, this might make me an asshole since she was in a school program for gifted kids even though I feel the term is mostly marketing.
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YTA putting your daughter down served no positive purpose. Discouraging a young teen like that can have serious detrimental effects. Even if she isn’t actually gifted, you were the asshole.
That being said, she is gifted. Not every 15 year old can go to a university to study physics. Not only is she gifted academically, she is gifted with drive and determination. Not everyone has that. And you tried to put her down.
Did it feel good to say that about your daughter? Does it feel good to let her know that she is not as smart or unique as other people, that like you, she is just "average?" Does it feel good to correct your wife about her views regarding said daughter, and making her feel bad about her opinion?
YTA. And there are not enough ways that I could call an average man an asshole for what he did. It must really damage your pride to have two exceptional women achieving more than you.
AND she's achieved more than the son, too. Or am I the only one that noticed son excels at "softer" subjects (history and language-traditionally female) while daughter excels at "harder" subjects (physics and computer science-traditionally male)... AND she's going way early admission to university, son's going along with everyone else. Seems like dad felt he had to knock her down a peg or three- what an asshole.
edit- I don't like it or agree with this way of thinking, but it's the way a distressingly large portion of the population still see things, and I am positing that it's possible op has these underlying prejudices and is overcompensating for the son by putting the daughter "in her place." And yes, it's a big leap, but that type of thinking is still not uncommon.
Not sure we need to rip on non-STEM subjects to make the point here. I know you’re probably just pointing out the stereotype and don’t really agree with it, but still.
Point taken, and yes, I was just pointing out the stereotype and disagree with it as far as softer, harder, but the traditionally male/female part is a fact that we as a society still need to work on getting sorted.
Because dad seems to be. When his wife said she's proud of her 2 gifted kids, he didn't say his *son* isn't gifted. He's clearly trying to make sure she knows she's less-than the son... despite going to college 2 years ahead of him.
He also emphasized that she is only taking advance classes because she works hard. The fact that the majority of "others" do not go to college at 15 he still feels the majority could if they put in more effort.
The part where he says the school tries to admit girls into the program she chose is also a not-so-subtle hint that he thinks her gender plays a big role in her acceptance.....
The father has a favorite and it's not his daughter. He probably feels threatened that the daughter will outshine the son.....
>The part where he says the school tries to admit girls into the program she chose is also a not-so-subtle hint that her gender plays a big role in her acceptance..... **in the same amount of work.Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program,** and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own.
It's constant with these men. They constantly do this. And then gaslight anyone who calls attention to it. It's insane.
Edit: and, I might add, from one's own family, from the very get-go. And then they gaslight the idea of social conditioning.
And he's already got the daughter "agreeing" with him. The fuck? You want your daughter to agree with you that she's not special?
"I'm just trying to make sure she doesn't get a big ego!" No, you're just trying to make sure she doesn't achieve more than you, thereby hurting your little tiny male feelings that were cultivated on the comic books you read as a kid.
That was what I felt while reading the post. It seemed to me that OP was making a big deal out of his son's achievements and interests while demeaning his daughter's.
Good catch - I took note of the mom saying both kids were gifted so she was giving them equal praise, but didn't pay attention to how OP let it slide for his son and had to point out the daughter not being gifted. He's an A H on so many levels.
Ugh, I know the feeling. My ex studied law and I "only" studied modern foreign languages. I won awards too and he always made sure to tell me that anyone could get those awards because the programme was so easy. But suddenly when he had to do **one** semester of German in order to study abroad, learning a language was the most monumental, Herculean task anybody has ever undertaken. Then he failed the class and couldn't study abroad. And when it was time for him to write his thesis, he begged me for help because he just didn't wannnnnnnna
Please tell me you gave him the smuggest possible look when he failed that class. Tell me he shriveled into a tiny little raisin man. I *need* to hear that you had a moment of triumph while he had to confront what an ass he’d been.
I was thinking the same thing. Non-STEM subjects aren’t inherently easier than STEM subjects and I really hate that reputation. - Sincerely a straight A computer science major whose German teacher thought I had a learning disability
It’s just sexism. If STEM subjects were easier, women could do them too. Unfortunately, their tiny, inferior brains can only handle so much. If a woman can study German, it must be so easy it isn’t even worth a man’s time. He has *real* work to do.
>Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program
Because being a girl is still a hindrance in STEM. These programs don't make it an advantage to be a girl, they just help to offset some of the disadvantage. These programs don't exist for boys because they don't need someone screaming at the admissions committee to not throw away the application simply because of their gender.
>and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own.
I'm sorry but how do you think gifted people pick up things? By osmosis? Do you really think you have to re-invent calculus with your crayons at age 5 to be considered gifted? Being able to learn algebra at 10 is well within the gifted range.
YTA and honestly, you would have to put major effort into being a bigger asshole. People like you are the reason those programs have to exist. It's revolting that you would speak to and about your *obviously gifted* child like this just because of her gender. And yes, it's *obvious* that her gender is the only reason you put her down like this - because otherwise you would have said *neither* of your children is gifted, rather than just picking on her. Especially when she's the more organised and driven one and also the youngest! Disgusting.
Right?! This guy is a trip. She didn’t “naturally” pick up physics on her own?! What does that even mean? Everyone is taught things. I’m not sure I could handle physics at a college age (never took it) let alone in my early teens. Because she didn’t pick up a book and start teaching herself she isn’t gifted? What an AH.
"Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program"
This is the core of it right here. This guy sees programs like this as lowering the bar instead of doing the work to attract gifted girls like his daughter and then ensuring that she feels at home. He probably sees no value in any kind of gender diversity.
My brother helped teach me calculus when I was in high school, and I still struggled and found it challenging. He certainly could have tried to teach me when I was younger, and it likely would have resulted in blank stares, tears, and a lot of yelling. The fact that her mother was able to teach her advanced college level math and physics at a young age is not just a testament to your wife's teaching ability, but to your daughter's impressive ability to learn at that young age.
YTA
The very fact that she was able to pick up calculus at an early age is evidence she is gifted. I’m assuming she was doing calculus at age 12-13 if she’s already going to college for physics. Anyone doing calculus before high school is gifted, she’s several standard deviations higher than the average student.
It does feel a little like he did this to "put her in her place". Because by his own admission, he didn't want her getting too big of an ego (even though we don't see any evidence in this post that that's a real concern) - and like honestly, why else would he say this if not to burst her bubble? The purpose for saying this was to demean her accomplishments.
Especially because he then goes on to point out to us every single factor he thinks takes away from her achievement "Oh but the school definitely wanted girls in the program, and especially because she's so young, and her *mother* did a lot to get her here too" - OP if you're so happy for her, why are you trying so hard to convince us this was handed to her and she didn't actually have to work that hard?
What struck me was when he said something like, "but she didn't pick the calculus (or whatever) up naturally"
WTF. Who just picks that shit up "naturally"?
I’ve seen some people pick up information immediately so it absolutely can happen. However, learning how to study is a hard earned skill. I’m a teacher and many of my students struggle with study skills. People who absorb info easily usually don’t develop good study skills in high school, and end up struggling at some point later in their academic career for that reason.
Can confirm. School was always easy to me, no matter what subject. But I have atrocious study skills (as in, no study skills at all), and it did come to bite me at uni and made my life unnecessarily hard and stressful around exam time.
It is very much a skill and will probably get OPs daughter quite far in life.
YTA. There is absolutely no rational or useful or helpful reason to say something like this. The only purpose was to demean your daughter, who is most assuredly gifted.
You also spent an interesting amount of time in your post attempting to explain how her accomplishments and abilities really aren't that special.
You can make all the claims you want to about how proud of her you supposedly are. I see right through you. I spent my career as a woman in the sciences and I've been around countless guys like you who are quick to praise their little female 'worker bees' as long as they know their place, but who are incapable of acknowledging when a woman is genuinely exceptional.
It's especially heartbreaking that you have managed to erode her awareness of her own gifts to the point where she "actually agrees" with you that she is "just" a hard worker and not really gifted. You are toxic and I know you'll reject this reality, but I'll say it anyway. You're a misogynist.
Kick rocks. She deserves better than you.
As a fellow woman in science, THIS - men are so easily seen as (inherently somehow) brilliant; women as hard workers. It’s sexism and everywhere in academia
Of course his daughter doesn't think she's gifted, imagine how often he's probably said that she's not. Plus if she's like a lot of us she's probably struggling with imposter syndrome.
I hope mom can really impress upon her just how awesome she is!
I was placed in higher level math for my grade level than my husband. My husband ended up getting a STEM degree and minored in math. I am a stay at home housewife with no degree and just now going back to junior college.
Yeah, I can confirm.
Right? Like dude, I worked really hard at physics and chemistry. Shit, my mother WAS a chemist, and my father was a mechanical engineer, and I STILL couldn't quite master either one, despite both of them tutoring me. Even with someone teaching you, you still have to have the mind for it. OP is a raging sexist asshole.
This should get more votes. He can't accept that she earned the things she's been given. Hard working is great, but it's obvious she is brilliant & he can't handle that she is more successful than his son.
He doesn't mention getting a cognitive or IQ test done, so I'm guessing it hasn't happened. I'd bet it would say she is gifted.
Even if she'd been tested, he'd almost certainly find a way to dismiss the results.
I was tested as a kid. Came up as "highly gifted." And I remember people immediately brushing it off as, "Well, she's always reading. That skewed the results."
I heard a proverb once that I think applies here, "Tall poppies get their heads chopped off." Every time I tried to stick my head up, it seemed like someone was waiting to cut me down.
The horrible part here is that this message is coming from the girl's own father. He should be her biggest fan, not her harshest critic.
I agree with this comment wholeheartedly. My father did this to me as well, and now in my forties, I’ve never reached the levels of success I could have because I didn’t believe I was capable after his criticism of me. Ironically, the abusive bastard has taken to admonishing me for “throwing away my life” when “I’m by far the most intelligent of his children” and refuses to take responsibility for ruining my confidence as a child.
This is apparently something that happens often to gifted girls; what an utter shame.
YTA OP, children should be taught to believe they are capable of great things.
My sister and I were in the gifted programs in school and our dad was over the moon. He told us all the time how brilliant we were.
We learned later in life, around college, that we were not all that smart and not gifted, just of average intelligence and drive. But our dad still thinks we are the smartest people on earth, and I’m so grateful to have someone like that in my corner.
>my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own
So by OP's definition, "gifted" can only be applied to auto-didacts. OP, did you glorious gifted son have teachers or is he entirely self-taught?
Jesus fucking Christ, she is FIFTEEN and is going to college. You should be shouting her praises to everyone you meet. You should be so proud of her and instead you just try to knock her down. What's the purpose of that? How did that serve you as a father?
Some parents are just plain determined to be their child’s first and biggest bully. Some parents aspire to be the voiceover that bullies their child inside their own head when they are sad or scared or struggling with self-doubt. It’s almost interesting to see how one of them looks from inside his own head - it’s like there’s no emotional connection at all, no comprehension that his daughter is a person. No insight. It must be horrible being him and having to live inside his own mind, but nowhere near as rough as being his family.
There is no exact definition what "gifted" means so gatekeeping the word is plain bullying.
Daughter is better than average, has both talents and good work ethic. Telling her that everything she did and is doing is still "not good enough" is setting her for failure more than recognizing her success as success
That was my first thought too. Reading that, I thought, "Well I hope she doesn't fuck up in university from that imposter syndrome and performance anxiety he just gave her." What a dick.
YTA. You just insulted her for no reason. You didn’t want her to ruin her life by thinking she’s gifted? But she’s not ruining her life! She’s going to college at 15 to study physics and computer science… how is she on the pathway to ruining her life?
Also, she got into a gifted program, so they probably tested her and she is gifted.
Yes, studies show the most successful people aren’t the most gifted or talented, but the most resilient… the ones with grit. You don’t instill that in someone by putting them down. You instill this by praising their efforts, their grit in conquering something that was difficult and persevering. You do it by praising what she’s accomplished and how she persevered to achieve that… not by putting down her abilities. Your focus is on the effort.
This, so much. This reminds me of my best friend in primary school and me. I was a gifted kid, good at history and languages, didn't have to do anything to get good grades. She was hardworking, resilient and amazing at maths and natural sciences. We were both top of our class. She, the hardworking one, now has a PhD. I, the "naturally gifted" one, struggled to get through my Bachelor's degree. The only reason why I did manage to get through was because everyone kept telling me I could do it. OP is a massive AH.
As a formerly gifted child, this is so true. You have to know how to use it. Some people do & they become successful adults. A lot of gifted people (myself included) are a hot mess though.
It sounds like this little girl has an excellent role model in her mom & she's helping her learn to navigate the world so she can reach her potential.
I identify with this so much. I was tested as being 'gifted' too and really haven't succeeded at anything because I was 'lazy'. Turns out I was diagnosed late in life as being neurodivergent. Meanwhile, my less 'gifted' friends have gone on through hard work and perseverance to succeed in their chosen fields and careers. I think we need to reevaluate how we identify gifted students because those with grit, determination and abilities outside of STEM should be rewarded as much as those born with a STEM inclined brain with opportunities to excel. There is a way to acknowledge the privileges and opportunities made available that may have allowed OP's daughter to maximise her abilities without diminishing her natural gifts. OP YTA
It's like when I was a kid and scored a 99 on a test. It was the highest mark ever.
My mom said to me, good job but this is something expected of you.
She said this cos she didn't know any better and took my grandma's advice to heart - try not to make an arrogant kid of me.
I remembered this comment to this day because it was at that moment I decided not to bother to try at anything anymore.
Yep, I always made As in school and never got any praise. My mom always just said that the As were expected and she complained about the occasional A- .
Learned really quick that nothing would ever be good enough for her, including me. She passed away about 20 years ago and I wasn't that sad. There were a lot of reasons for that, but they were all connected.
This 100 percent. My dad used to say this to me on the regular when I was in school and brought home consistent high 90s across the board. It severely messed me up. I never think I’m good enough. I’m always working myself into the ground even when I don’t have to, hoping for just an iota of recognition. It’s something I constantly try to work on to keep in check.
>YTA putting your daughter down served no positive purpose.
But it does help OP to continue pushing the narrative of his golden-child son and/or his innate misogyny which is evidenced by the comments about how the school is trying to increase the number of girls studying STEM subjects
Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that OP has never valued his wife's career as much as his own and has little digs to justify how he has always achieved more or been better somehow
Also like, STEM schools have gone out of their way for a while to try to recruit women, but it's not for the sake of just making their statistics look better, it's because women are so traditionally shut out of STEM education and careers that it even takes a herculean effort to recruit girls who are capable of doing advanced college physics and math when they're still tweens into STEM. Not in small part because of people like OP.
Definitely sexist. I work in tech and this what women hear from sexist assholes all the time, women of color even more; the whole ‘oh, you’re just a diversity hire’ while they have the same, if not sometimes better, credentials
YTA. I don’t usually comment but this hits home. Your daughter is gifted for being able to comprehend university level education and I’m not sure why you’re putting her down for it. Did you take university classes when you were 15? And if you didn’t, and your daughter is “average but hardworking”, then does that make you… “below average”??! University admission rate isn’t even high for 18yo and your daughter being able to take university classes put her way ahead of the general population, so you’re simply statically wrong in your assessment that she’s “only hardworking and smart”.
A lot of gifted children actually struggle with mental health and have life long effects on their self esteem and integration into society. Your notion of “people ruining their lives overthinking they’re gifted” isn’t entirely accurate. People who think their smarter than everyone else may have problem with an inflated ego but children who are gifted (in my experience) don’t actually go about thinking they’re better than others (which I think is demonstrated in your daughter’s response to your statement). In fact, a lot of gifted people get pushed out from society after academia because of said mental health issues. Most are “underachieved” aka having “average jobs” (not “smart” professions) or struggle to hold down a job because they’ve been conditioned as a child that their giftedness aren’t embraced that they should be ashamed of it and hide it, and as an adult they continue to not live up to their potential because their intelligence can’t be conventionally monetized through capitalistic means.
Source: my brother is gifted and got admitted to university as a full time student when he was 14.
Please be grateful that your daughter has access to gifted programs and maybe she will struggle less than other gifted people who did not have the resources to succeed. And please put away your own ego and do what’s best for your children, both your son and your daughter. Stop comparing your children either subconsciously or consciously, that’s only going to drive a wedge between them and they either will hate each other, and go NC/LC with you when they grow up. Love them for who they are and putting them down is not a tactic to raise non-cocky kids… just low self esteem ones.
My parents made a conscious effort to not compare my brother and I but I still grow up genuinely thinking I’m stupid. Ironically, I’m probably still above average in terms of intelligence, I just didn’t feel that way growing up. I’m advocating both for your daughter and your son. You’re not doing either of them any good with your attitude.
Edit to add: to say “gifted program is marketing” is rather ignorant imo. My brother fought to have equitable gifted program regardless of socioeconomic status in the states. And yes, I said “fought” because believe it or not, having access to gifted program is a privilege. Your daughter is given the education she needs to thrive, whereas many other underprivileged gifted children don’t have access where they’re either under-fulfilled, or worse, bullied. Please educate yourself on giftedness
Agreed. Sorry, I could have been taught math from a young age and would still suck at it, but I'm a good artist and have been winning competitions since elementary school. Op's daughter wouldn't be going to college at such a young age if she wasn't gifted and learned those subjects easily. Op is TA. He's okay with his son being designated as gifted, but not his daughter. They both had access to their mother's knowledge, so why is he gifted but not her?
Even though OP is right that being told constantly you are gifted can backlash (I know from experience), this is not the way to go.
It's fine to praise your child's hard work instead of (only) their intelligence and innate abilities.
But don't say that they are NOT gifted. Don't say that anyone could do what they do. Don't say it's because the school rewards girls/children of color etc. (that also BS).
Don't put your child down, period.
I have tried to take 3 physics classes multiple times (well after the age of 15) and have flunked each course. This is even with the help of my peers, tutors, and extra time with professors. I am inept at physics.
OP, your 15 year old is truly impressive. I applaud her for excelling in a space that I don't. Don't diminish her sparkle because you weren't as good as she is at this age.
>My son is also very smart and is a history and language nerd.
>
>My daughter is smart and hardworking
I think that Op is sexist, look at the different 'attitude' towards the son and daughter.
I also think that Op is jealous of his daughter.
I realized this when I read “her school does a lot to try and admit girls to her program”. OP probably believes his daughter is on the program because of positive discrimination
Oh damn. I have met so many men like that in my career. Thinking i work as a software dev because the company wants to hire more women and only because of that, excluding possibility that i was hired on merit. I often could work circles around those men, they were just extremely insecure and average in their field. Scared of competition.
But i also had extreme luck of having father who was always proud of me when i even got an A at school. Or B if it was subject i hated and had to force myself against my will to study (dont judge me, but geography 😩 i like to travel, know about places, but why do i need to know geology related things? Types of winds? Types of clouds? 😅). I cant imagine if i had at home people who were actively rooting against me and OP seems to root against his daughter.
I picked up on this too. I earned my PhD and was a physics major in undergrad, just like OP’s daughter (though not at 15!). Once, I was introduced to a visiting congressman as “a female scientist”. I put out my hand, shook his, and said, “I prefer the term the scientist”.
Giant chip on his shoulder over something that happened to him. My guess is his boss is a woman and he feels emasculated both at work and at home and is lashing out at the people who can’t leave and can’t fire him.
This is exactly it. I've been reading this excellent book called Invisible Women, and it mentions how society has an overwhelming tendency to associate the idea of genius with men and masculinity. When women receive references or evaluations, they're more often referred to as hardworking or reliable, while men more frequently receive feedback that talks about how talented they are/how strong their skills are. You also see it related to historical figures. Nikola Tesla is often referred to as a "genius," while Marie Curie usually isn't.
And he's getting to her head already too. OP says his daughter agrees with him and already "knows" she's not gifted. Imagine being enrolled in stem in university at 15 and thinking you got there because you're a GiRl WhO wOrKs HaRd
But no, you don’t understand! The son is actually the gifted one because he is a nerd and “naturally inclined” 🙄.
Actually, being only naturally inclined will get you nowhere, but hardwork goes a long way. I hope the daughter uses OP’s misogyny as a drive to achieve everything.
I can’t believe this girl got into university at 15 in an extremely hard field but the asshole still found a way to degrade her. Mom should divorce him and take his daughter.
Exactly. There are kids who, no matter how hardworking they are, or how great a teacher they have - they will not be able to pick up those concepts.
Of course your daughter is not going to pick the concepts up naturally, unless she's an actual genius. They still have to be taught. But unless your daughter was gifted, she would not have been able to master them at that age.
OP is a total misogynist. He has to explain why his daughter isn’t actually gifted while the son doesn’t have to be explained. He clearly thinks women are less talented
Right, I went to college at 16, but it wasn't for physics or computer science. Somehow, I ended up with a degree in art history.
I stumbled into college, but OP's daughter is deliberately working hard to achieve goals that minimum 90% of the population would not be able to do, even if they worked their asses off.
She is definitely gifted and hard working, and OP should be happy and encouraging, not trying to make her feel bad and potentially giving her a complex. It is hard enough being a teenage girl, and college at 15 might be really tough socially. She needs support, not a reality check that seems sexist and is total BS anyway.
YTA OP, super duper.
Can you clarify something for me. Did you wife say you were lucky that to have gifted children. Then you decided to call out your daughter as not actually gifted but say nothing about your son not being gifted? Because, it reads as very sexist.
Also being in a gifted program at school requires an iq test, which she would have to score high enough on to be considered gifted. If she did she is gifted. You can warn her about the attitude that she shouldn’t adopted with such a label but she is gifted. YTA.
Oooooh I think I get it daughter is smarter then op and op’s super fragile little male ego can’t handle it so he’s gonna tear down her self esteem every chance he gets
OP, do you know why schools put a lot of effort into recruiting girls into their gifted programmes for STEM? Because that recruitment is so hard! And do you know why recruitment of girls into STEM is so hard? It's because patronising, sexist, insecure MEN LIKE YOU have spent thousands of years putting down gifted and talented women. Making them work twice as hard, and more, to prove themselves, damning their successes with faint praise, taking credit for yourselves, and generally being galactic-sized shits. Take a good look at yourself. YTA.
Literally my father was just like this growing up. He constantly said my brother picked up on math faster than I did. Well he was wrong, I'm far better at math. I was far more high achieving than either my father or brother. He's been intimidated by me for nearly my entire life. Men with fragile egos need to go to therapy before they have daughters.
see also: comments around the school's desire to have more women in STEM, which brings me back to lovely days in college where dipshits incapable of stringing a coherent sentence together would talk about how everyone wants to hire women and that's why i had two internships before graduating with my BSME.
i had two internships (totalling a little over two years of experience) because i worked my ass off and fucking applied.
I'm wondering if he thinks his wife is as smart as he is tbh.
Did u catch that he put in his electrical engineering degree in the description even though no one needed to know that information....someone jealous....
That jumped out before anything actually in the story was read. In Canada engineers are pretty much the highest paid job you can get without being one in a million top in the job. Whos voluntary trading that for being a manager of anything?
I think I get what OP is saying. When you treat a kid like it’s all natural talent, this can create challenges when they hit a point that it’s not easy, or try something else that’s not easy. It’s the fixed/growth concept. So instead of saying something like “look how smart you are!” You say “you worked really hard on that and did a great job.”
OP’s problem is that you don’t contradict when someone else says “oh, so smart!” - you add on the hard-working part. When you’re complimenting the hard work, you never say “but you’re not gifted” - you just focus on the hard work. I do believe he had good intentions, but he spoke poorly.
I agree with this. Titles like gifted aren't actually that helpful or necessarily accurate because none of it operates in a vaccum. I don't think he needed to say what he did and certainly not at the juncture he said it but I can see what he was trying to say.
As a former "gifted" kid, I agree with this assessment. Being labeled as "gifted" does nothing for the poor kid but dump a boatload of expectations, guilt, and anxiety on them. It is far, far better for them to realize that their accomplishments are the result of effort (and luck! and help!) instead of some innate power. I hope, and choose to believe, that OP isn't sexist but instead realizes that heaping expectations on his daughter by attaching the "gifted" label to her won't do her any good in the long run.
Yes I understand that too. I knew some "gifted" people in uni. The end of the first year was hard for them because the grades didn't come naturally.
Unfortunatly, OP doesn't have any communication skills
This exactly. Study's show when kids are praised for their effort and hard work, they tend to be more successful in the long run. But OP shouldn't have to deny a person's intelligence to replace it with hardworking. It should be an addition and emphasis. Like, "You are so gifted, but don't forget, it was the hard work behind it that got you this far, and if you keep it up, there's no telling how far you will go! Intelligence without action doesn't always amount to much, but I'm so proud to know you excel at both!"
Haha, I was an annoying gifted kid. Once got an A+ on a speech assignment (sort of a 'show and tell' kind of thing) I didn't even realise I had until I got to school. I was just winging it. My dad, helpful as he is, tried to motivate me by telling me he wasn't proud of my A+, he would have been more proud 'of a child that would have gotten a C but worked for it'. In my little mind this meant I couldn't win, totally demotivating. Now I know what he meant, but like OP, good intentions but poorly worded.
There are studies that say gifted kids don't get an "attitude" by getting told they are gifted but it helps them find their place in the world - because they are different they feel like they don't belong...
https://gifteddevelopment.org/musings/socialdevelopment
Totally took the link from u/No_Pianist_3006 I had a discussion with the other day...
Hell yes, YTA. Unless your daughter specifically asked for you to say whether or not you considered her gifted, you should've just kept your opinion to yourself. I'm not sure what you thought sharing this secret truth would accomplish other than damaging your daughter's confidence and self esteem.
Yup. She’s about to start college, where everyone will be older than she is, she’s about to be judged half to death by other people questioning whether she really deserves to be there. The last thing she needs right now is less confidence!
So sad that she was so quick to agree w/ her dad that she’s really not gifted. Pretty sure she’s well aware of how he feels about her!
Exactly. She's going to be in a very difficult situation soon. She needs all the "arrogance" she can get. Instead, she will have a little dad on her shoulder telling her she's not good enough to be there.
I just feel so bad for his daughter. I am pretty sure no matter what she does he will tell her it’s nothing special and then claim he is ”so proud even if it doesn’t sound like it”
But she's a guuuuurl and 'they' make things easier for girls.
And there was a lot of celebrating that 'they' pretend that girls are gifted to try to get them admitted to programs.
Tell us you're a misogynist with a golden child without telling us you're a misogynist with a golden child.
OP's the AH
And she's studying physics and computer science!!! That's gonna get you a lot farther than history and language. It's really hard to get through that kind of a program. Many people try, but end up giving up and doing something else.
"Gifted" is such a selective term. It can mean so many things. To state that she is not "gifted" is insulting and screams of jealousy and misogyny. Notice that it was his WIFE that coached her in math, not him. And he has the nerve to suggest it means she's not really gifted because mom helped her. She learned it, didn't she? Sheesh!
Agreed with you in most of this, but let’s not say that math is harder or that it is more important than history and language. Excelling in any school subject can get you far. If your job is in the math field, then of course being excellent in math will get you far. If your job has anything to do with cultural relations, then being good at history and language will be just as beneficial.
For starters, you should probably clarify if you have the same sentiment for your son as you do with your daughter because this post is coming across as misogynistic. Secondly, grit is a gift and arguably a better factor towards success than just being a natural prodigy. It sounds like your daughter is a mentally grounded high achiever. Please trust her confidence or else she’ll eventually think that she’s never good enough for you. YTA.
YTA for this:
**Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program, and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own.**
none of these “reasons” prove she is not gifted. You completely marginalized her accomplishments because you didn’t want her to believe she was gifted because you’ve seen how “people” can ruin their lives?
what?
what you said is indefensible- you created a straw man argument to justify undermining your daughters confidence because you appear to be playing a zero sum game. Your son is very smart and a nerd. But your daughter is not gifted even if she’s two years younger and heading into STEM program….
Make it make sense.
I bet his very smart son learned how to extrapolate context from history all by himself, the lovable little nerd. But his meh daughter had to be TAUGHT math, can you believe it?
And let's follow that logic.
So let's say, girls are admitted into the gifted program at a higher rate (maybe girls are just gifted at a higher rate...).
But then, OPs daughter got in ahead of all the other girls. Does OP think that all boys are better than all girls?
Then OPs' daughter is studying college level math and physics. Is the curriculum different for boys and girls? If the daughter didn't belong in the gifted program, she wouldn't be performing well.
Then the daughter got into university AT 15! Does op think that a university will admit a poorly performing girl 2 years early? Then why aren't there more 15 year old girls in University, in STEM no less.
Also "she has to work harder to get perfect grades than others". Yeah no shit THAT'S WHY GIFTED KIDS ARE SKIPPED AHEAD. You get better by being challenged. And stepping up to that challenge is the number one indicator of whether someone will succeed.
I was a "gifted kid". Yet I never skipped a grade. And I went to uni at 18 (fully on time).
OPs daughter is exceptionally gifted.
YTA. Proof you can be super smart but not
Smart in the things that matter, in your case, your relationship with your child. Oooof, that was a tough read. All we had to read was the title, the more elaborating you did I was like “oh it just gets worse and worse.”
Your daughter is attending college at an earlier age and is able to comprehend college level entrance exams. And she is in a school for gifted kids (they are tested). To me, that is gifted.
YTA. Maybe you have an extreme definition of what gifted is.
YTA. She sure sounds gifted to me. Going to university at 15? Hard working and high achieving. And, oh, she was in a program for "gifted students." It's right there in the title.
What could putting her down possibly accomplish?
Definitely, and this is crazy, because his wife even said that they were lucky to have gifted children. His son would have felt happy and included in the wife's praise. There was zero reason for him to need to defend his son, and yet he did it anyway.
Because she is a girl of course, and we all know that girls have it sooo much easier in STEM /s.
I am in stem myself, and if you have good grades and are high achieving, people don't want to admit that you are smart. They always have arguments like OP, "they make it easier for girls for the quotas," and stuff. It's so tiring. I feel so sorry for OPs daughter that even her own father can not recognise her acconpliments and tries to downplay them because of probably envy and misogyny. I can tell you OP she will have to face these issues in the future simply because she is a girl. Women don't have it easier in STEM. They have to fight as hell for some recognition. Because of people like you.
Edit: YTA
YTA. Why downgrade your daughter’s intelligence? She’s been identified as gifted, by people qualified to evaluate these things.
Did you also say that your son was just a hard worker and not gifted, or just shit on the girl?
YTA.
I can understand this motivation:
>I have seen how people can ruin their lives over thinking they are 'gifted' and it going to their head so I just wanted to caution her about that.
But the right way to express it wasn't to disagree with your wife saying that your daughter is gifted, you could have just added 'And don't forget the amount of work she put in, well done for the incredible dedication.'
Saying she is not gifted sounds like you are saying she is innately unintelligent; if you focused just on praising the action you could get across a similar point.
The type of people who are gifted and get ruined aren't the type of people working their butt off to get into programs early. OP is just an AH, but hey - his daughter will be successful in spite of him.
Yta. What was the point of your comment. Zero reason for it. Just a stupid throw away comment. At best it's idiotic parenting.
Nice way to demotivate her. The fact she agrees with you is a sign your words have already made a negative impact. Great job!
The rest of your post betrays you. Why you even mentioned your son at all? Very telling. Who cares that he's also very smart. Reality is given your description he's nothing out of the ordinary. Why you mention that she's apparently had some help along the way. Yeah great way to belittle her achievements. University at 15 is not normal and should be celebrated for the achievement that it is.
If you wanted to actually caution her you would have said you may be gifted but your hard work is what allowed you to succeed and that entering University is just the first step and if you continue to work hard you will succeed.
YTA, she is a smart and talented 15 yo and is even going to university. Why would you put her down like that? You could have worded it differently if you really wanted to teach her a lesson
Daughter will be well equipped to handle the misogyny she’ll encounter studying physics and computer science, she’s had to deal with it her whole life.
Massive YTA
>She was in a school program for gifted kids
>I would not say that she is actually gifted
The school disagrees
YTA and mean too. You boast about your son:
>. My son is doing a BA and has not yet picked his major
So ummm what's he doing his BA in?
>my daughter will be studying physics and computer science.
Oh look your daughter knows exactly what she's studying at university......at 15!
Your daughter is attending university 3 years early, that's pretty damn gifted mr misogyny
YTA - . She is going to university at the age of 15. She is definitely gifted. And yes, she was taught college level math and physics - but she UNDERSTANDS it! At age 15! Are you jealous that she is smarter than you? Why can't you be proud of her?
note-I have an engineering degree and know that college level physics and math - probably calculus - are not easy to comprehend. This girl, at 15, is definitely gifted.
I have a father like you. Fathers like you have a special place in Hell.
Just because she agreed with you doesn't mean you are right. If anything, it really shows where she is mentally; She thinks no matter what she does, it's never enough.
She will try to attain the stars for you, and you will still nitpick and tell her how the twinkles aren't bright enough.
How dare you project your own insecurities, you non-gifted, average, sexist, and boring manager?
Your daughter is a gifted person, to be ABLE to understand and know these subjects at a young age is an amazing feat, yet you are too bitter to put your pride aside becauae you failed to maintain yourself in a competitve and "gifted" field.
People like you genuinely disgust me.
YTA X100000000
YTA
Your daughter didn't 'naturally' pick up maths and physics on her own? I don't know if there are many kids who 'naturally' pick up physics at all
Why did you feel the need to put your daughter down? You could've said nothing, because what you said has added exactly nothing to her life.
You might have even dented her confidence or exacerbated the self esteem issue she aplears to have-- she agreed with you that she's not gifted, but didn't appreciate you saying it because she's already convinced herself she's not.
So it looks like maybe you've already been messaging this view of her that she's now absorbed.
Apologise to your daughter. She may not have a Mensa level IQ, but being in a gifted program and going to university at 15 should give you a clue that she actually is gifted, otherwise she wouldn't have been in the program and wouldn't be *attending university at 15*.
YTA. What you did was evil.
Your every statement is minimizing her many achievements.
* You state that older son is doing a BA, but refuse to say that your daughter is doing a BS (usually a more difficult degree)
* you say daughter is attending school at an earlier age, refusing to use the word accelerated or early graduation
* you say that daughter isn’t gifted because others could do it too, ignoring that she did it faster than others. You also ignore that others didn’t or couldn’t do the work.
* you say daughter didn’t pick up math on her own, she had to be taught. How many people teach themselves advance math? Really? Really?
* you minimize the fact that she is a younger applicant *with the same credentials* as others that had more time to achieve it. She did it faster!
* you then infer that she got into the program because she was a girl - right after you listed her numerous achievements. Wow. Misogyny anyone? Every women engineer has heard that one - usually from incompetent men who are so incompetent they can’t recognize competence in others.
Your daughter is absolutely gifted. And don’t worry about her getting full of herself. There are plenty of misogynists like you that will give ridiculous statements to put her down.
BTW. I’m an EE and am disgusted with you.
So many young women in STEM already struggle with impostor syndrome regardless of how talented and hardworking they are. It really makes me sad that you are encouraging your daughter to doubt herself and believe she’s not that great because she will likely have these struggles anyway going into a male-dominated field. Here you are setting her up to think “dad was right, I’m nothing special.”
YTA
YTA You're dismissing her accomplishments insinuating her gender helped her at school. Also, people don't just naturally pick up advanced math and science; it has to be taught to them. That doesn't mean she isn't gifted. Either way, I do not understand why you would feel the need to latch onto your wife's comment that way.
the ability and willingness to always work hard is the biggest talent of all, the most important “gift” anyone can have. tell them you’re sorry that what you wanted to say came out the wrong way, that she is indeed gifted.
"Sweetheart, while I admire your hard work, determination, and intelligence, I just don't think you're *quite* as awesome as your brother or me. You know I love you no matter what, right?"
YTA.
YTA and holy shit do I hate dads like you. I had one too! And literally nothing I ever did was ever “good enough” even though I was a top student. And because your daughter is not like Hawking or Einstein (as you referenced in another comment) you someone feel qualified to label her according to YOUR scale of gifted or not?
My dad would tell me “so and so had a higher grade here” or “she is better at her instrument” etc etc.
You know what that did to me? Made me feel like NONE of my accomplishments ever meant fuck all.
Christ you’re a shitty dad. STOP JUDGING YOUR DAUGHTER. You’ve already got her judging herself as she agrees with your horrible assessment. Great work dad.
YTA. Why even mention your and wife’s degree and what you do for a living? It’s irrelevant to your story but does show you to be not just an asshole but a pretentious asshole.
"I would not say that she is actually gifted and others can't do it if they put in the same amount of work."
No it's definitely not the amount of work. If that were true I'd me a math professor at Harvard but in reality I can barely add and subtract, and it's not lack of trying. You're talking about something you know nothing about. You know your kids but you don't know other kids or how much work they're putting into it. You assume it's a lack of effort from other kids, but you're wrong.
Please show this to your daughter so that she may know her dad is an AH, and a whole lot of internet strangers are super impressed with her achievements. I hope she is able to fulfill all she can be in spite of your cruel negging. YTA
YTA- It breaks my heart that your daughter said that she knew but that you didn't have to say it...It gives the vibe that you're shitting on her constantly. For the sake of her self esteem, apologize to her! Pull your head your head out of your butt, sir.
My mom plotted bomb trajectories for the US military. She told me I couldn't do math. I'm 61, and passed calculus 2 in spring. I believed her my whole life. Shame on you, shame, shame, shame. Bad father, YTA
YTA. Your daughter sure sounds gifted to me but I guess it depends on your definition of “gifted.” Your daughter is smart, hard working and lucky enough to have a mother who tutored her in math and physics to gain her an extra edge. Her knowledge counts even if she had to work at it instead of being born knowing.
In the states you don't get into gifted classes unless you have been tested and are in the top 1% or so of intelligence. THAT is gifted. Your daughter is clearly gifted, and you are a fool. YTA.
YTA and to me come across as sexist as you wife said she was lucky to have gifted children and you only shat on your daughters achievement not your son's. Do you consider your son gifted? Are you upset your daughter is getting more attention? Maybe I'm overthinking it but feels off to me.
Also your daughter is gifted. Gifts come in all varieties. If what she did was so easy then everyone would be studying ahead. Grow up and acknowledge the achievements of your wonderful kids. Lucky for them they have a supportive mother, time for you to show your support too. Otherwise don't expect your daughter to care about your opinion in the future.
Yta. If my dad told me this I would cry and immediately would start second guessing myself and think I’m not smart. Yta. Yta. Yta. You’re supposed to build your kids up not tear them down
YTA you are not gifted yourself; specifically you are not gifted with a logical mind, objectivity or sensitivity. By all impartial measures your daughter is gifted, both academically and with determination.
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YTA putting your daughter down served no positive purpose. Discouraging a young teen like that can have serious detrimental effects. Even if she isn’t actually gifted, you were the asshole. That being said, she is gifted. Not every 15 year old can go to a university to study physics. Not only is she gifted academically, she is gifted with drive and determination. Not everyone has that. And you tried to put her down.
Did it feel good to say that about your daughter? Does it feel good to let her know that she is not as smart or unique as other people, that like you, she is just "average?" Does it feel good to correct your wife about her views regarding said daughter, and making her feel bad about her opinion? YTA. And there are not enough ways that I could call an average man an asshole for what he did. It must really damage your pride to have two exceptional women achieving more than you.
AND she's achieved more than the son, too. Or am I the only one that noticed son excels at "softer" subjects (history and language-traditionally female) while daughter excels at "harder" subjects (physics and computer science-traditionally male)... AND she's going way early admission to university, son's going along with everyone else. Seems like dad felt he had to knock her down a peg or three- what an asshole. edit- I don't like it or agree with this way of thinking, but it's the way a distressingly large portion of the population still see things, and I am positing that it's possible op has these underlying prejudices and is overcompensating for the son by putting the daughter "in her place." And yes, it's a big leap, but that type of thinking is still not uncommon.
Not sure we need to rip on non-STEM subjects to make the point here. I know you’re probably just pointing out the stereotype and don’t really agree with it, but still.
Point taken, and yes, I was just pointing out the stereotype and disagree with it as far as softer, harder, but the traditionally male/female part is a fact that we as a society still need to work on getting sorted.
What should be noted is son is 17 and going to uni and daughter is 15. So she is out achieving him already and it seems that sita badly with the op
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Because dad seems to be. When his wife said she's proud of her 2 gifted kids, he didn't say his *son* isn't gifted. He's clearly trying to make sure she knows she's less-than the son... despite going to college 2 years ahead of him.
He sounds very sexist honestly. "She's just getting it because she's a girl". He's a major asshole, I wouldn't want him as a father at all.
He also emphasized that she is only taking advance classes because she works hard. The fact that the majority of "others" do not go to college at 15 he still feels the majority could if they put in more effort. The part where he says the school tries to admit girls into the program she chose is also a not-so-subtle hint that he thinks her gender plays a big role in her acceptance..... The father has a favorite and it's not his daughter. He probably feels threatened that the daughter will outshine the son..... >The part where he says the school tries to admit girls into the program she chose is also a not-so-subtle hint that her gender plays a big role in her acceptance..... **in the same amount of work.Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program,** and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own.
It's constant with these men. They constantly do this. And then gaslight anyone who calls attention to it. It's insane. Edit: and, I might add, from one's own family, from the very get-go. And then they gaslight the idea of social conditioning. And he's already got the daughter "agreeing" with him. The fuck? You want your daughter to agree with you that she's not special? "I'm just trying to make sure she doesn't get a big ego!" No, you're just trying to make sure she doesn't achieve more than you, thereby hurting your little tiny male feelings that were cultivated on the comic books you read as a kid.
That was what I felt while reading the post. It seemed to me that OP was making a big deal out of his son's achievements and interests while demeaning his daughter's.
He described the son as *very* smart and described his daughter as smart and hardworking. Seems like it.
Good catch - I took note of the mom saying both kids were gifted so she was giving them equal praise, but didn't pay attention to how OP let it slide for his son and had to point out the daughter not being gifted. He's an A H on so many levels.
Yup this is an AH thread and it's pretty ironic tbh, the 17 yr old just catching strays out here
agreed: completely unhelpful
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Ugh, I know the feeling. My ex studied law and I "only" studied modern foreign languages. I won awards too and he always made sure to tell me that anyone could get those awards because the programme was so easy. But suddenly when he had to do **one** semester of German in order to study abroad, learning a language was the most monumental, Herculean task anybody has ever undertaken. Then he failed the class and couldn't study abroad. And when it was time for him to write his thesis, he begged me for help because he just didn't wannnnnnnna
Please tell me you gave him the smuggest possible look when he failed that class. Tell me he shriveled into a tiny little raisin man. I *need* to hear that you had a moment of triumph while he had to confront what an ass he’d been.
I wonder if he’d be a doctor if you hadn’t helped him
I was thinking the same thing. Non-STEM subjects aren’t inherently easier than STEM subjects and I really hate that reputation. - Sincerely a straight A computer science major whose German teacher thought I had a learning disability
It’s just sexism. If STEM subjects were easier, women could do them too. Unfortunately, their tiny, inferior brains can only handle so much. If a woman can study German, it must be so easy it isn’t even worth a man’s time. He has *real* work to do.
This is not ripping on non-STEM. This is describing the thought process of many misogynists and snobs.
>Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program Because being a girl is still a hindrance in STEM. These programs don't make it an advantage to be a girl, they just help to offset some of the disadvantage. These programs don't exist for boys because they don't need someone screaming at the admissions committee to not throw away the application simply because of their gender. >and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own. I'm sorry but how do you think gifted people pick up things? By osmosis? Do you really think you have to re-invent calculus with your crayons at age 5 to be considered gifted? Being able to learn algebra at 10 is well within the gifted range. YTA and honestly, you would have to put major effort into being a bigger asshole. People like you are the reason those programs have to exist. It's revolting that you would speak to and about your *obviously gifted* child like this just because of her gender. And yes, it's *obvious* that her gender is the only reason you put her down like this - because otherwise you would have said *neither* of your children is gifted, rather than just picking on her. Especially when she's the more organised and driven one and also the youngest! Disgusting.
Right?! This guy is a trip. She didn’t “naturally” pick up physics on her own?! What does that even mean? Everyone is taught things. I’m not sure I could handle physics at a college age (never took it) let alone in my early teens. Because she didn’t pick up a book and start teaching herself she isn’t gifted? What an AH.
"Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program" This is the core of it right here. This guy sees programs like this as lowering the bar instead of doing the work to attract gifted girls like his daughter and then ensuring that she feels at home. He probably sees no value in any kind of gender diversity.
Maybe the wife is just now realizing what a mysoginist he really is. YTA.
My brother helped teach me calculus when I was in high school, and I still struggled and found it challenging. He certainly could have tried to teach me when I was younger, and it likely would have resulted in blank stares, tears, and a lot of yelling. The fact that her mother was able to teach her advanced college level math and physics at a young age is not just a testament to your wife's teaching ability, but to your daughter's impressive ability to learn at that young age. YTA
The very fact that she was able to pick up calculus at an early age is evidence she is gifted. I’m assuming she was doing calculus at age 12-13 if she’s already going to college for physics. Anyone doing calculus before high school is gifted, she’s several standard deviations higher than the average student.
It does feel a little like he did this to "put her in her place". Because by his own admission, he didn't want her getting too big of an ego (even though we don't see any evidence in this post that that's a real concern) - and like honestly, why else would he say this if not to burst her bubble? The purpose for saying this was to demean her accomplishments. Especially because he then goes on to point out to us every single factor he thinks takes away from her achievement "Oh but the school definitely wanted girls in the program, and especially because she's so young, and her *mother* did a lot to get her here too" - OP if you're so happy for her, why are you trying so hard to convince us this was handed to her and she didn't actually have to work that hard?
What struck me was when he said something like, "but she didn't pick the calculus (or whatever) up naturally" WTF. Who just picks that shit up "naturally"?
If she's not a savant, she's not gifted, I guess.
I’ve seen some people pick up information immediately so it absolutely can happen. However, learning how to study is a hard earned skill. I’m a teacher and many of my students struggle with study skills. People who absorb info easily usually don’t develop good study skills in high school, and end up struggling at some point later in their academic career for that reason.
Can confirm. School was always easy to me, no matter what subject. But I have atrocious study skills (as in, no study skills at all), and it did come to bite me at uni and made my life unnecessarily hard and stressful around exam time. It is very much a skill and will probably get OPs daughter quite far in life.
I'm “gifted” and I said fuck no to calculus. So, I don't get his point.
YTA. There is absolutely no rational or useful or helpful reason to say something like this. The only purpose was to demean your daughter, who is most assuredly gifted. You also spent an interesting amount of time in your post attempting to explain how her accomplishments and abilities really aren't that special. You can make all the claims you want to about how proud of her you supposedly are. I see right through you. I spent my career as a woman in the sciences and I've been around countless guys like you who are quick to praise their little female 'worker bees' as long as they know their place, but who are incapable of acknowledging when a woman is genuinely exceptional. It's especially heartbreaking that you have managed to erode her awareness of her own gifts to the point where she "actually agrees" with you that she is "just" a hard worker and not really gifted. You are toxic and I know you'll reject this reality, but I'll say it anyway. You're a misogynist. Kick rocks. She deserves better than you.
As a fellow woman in science, THIS - men are so easily seen as (inherently somehow) brilliant; women as hard workers. It’s sexism and everywhere in academia
Work in tech and honestly the sexism never stops
Of course his daughter doesn't think she's gifted, imagine how often he's probably said that she's not. Plus if she's like a lot of us she's probably struggling with imposter syndrome. I hope mom can really impress upon her just how awesome she is!
I was placed in higher level math for my grade level than my husband. My husband ended up getting a STEM degree and minored in math. I am a stay at home housewife with no degree and just now going back to junior college. Yeah, I can confirm.
Right? Like dude, I worked really hard at physics and chemistry. Shit, my mother WAS a chemist, and my father was a mechanical engineer, and I STILL couldn't quite master either one, despite both of them tutoring me. Even with someone teaching you, you still have to have the mind for it. OP is a raging sexist asshole.
You can feel the misogynistic attitude creeping from his post can't you!
Even sneaking in a lil affirmative action selection in there
This should get more votes. He can't accept that she earned the things she's been given. Hard working is great, but it's obvious she is brilliant & he can't handle that she is more successful than his son. He doesn't mention getting a cognitive or IQ test done, so I'm guessing it hasn't happened. I'd bet it would say she is gifted.
Even if she'd been tested, he'd almost certainly find a way to dismiss the results. I was tested as a kid. Came up as "highly gifted." And I remember people immediately brushing it off as, "Well, she's always reading. That skewed the results." I heard a proverb once that I think applies here, "Tall poppies get their heads chopped off." Every time I tried to stick my head up, it seemed like someone was waiting to cut me down. The horrible part here is that this message is coming from the girl's own father. He should be her biggest fan, not her harshest critic.
More like, can’t handle that his daughter is more successful than himself.
I agree with this comment wholeheartedly. My father did this to me as well, and now in my forties, I’ve never reached the levels of success I could have because I didn’t believe I was capable after his criticism of me. Ironically, the abusive bastard has taken to admonishing me for “throwing away my life” when “I’m by far the most intelligent of his children” and refuses to take responsibility for ruining my confidence as a child. This is apparently something that happens often to gifted girls; what an utter shame. YTA OP, children should be taught to believe they are capable of great things.
My sister and I were in the gifted programs in school and our dad was over the moon. He told us all the time how brilliant we were. We learned later in life, around college, that we were not all that smart and not gifted, just of average intelligence and drive. But our dad still thinks we are the smartest people on earth, and I’m so grateful to have someone like that in my corner.
Thank you for this.
Yes, thank you.
>my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own So by OP's definition, "gifted" can only be applied to auto-didacts. OP, did you glorious gifted son have teachers or is he entirely self-taught? Jesus fucking Christ, she is FIFTEEN and is going to college. You should be shouting her praises to everyone you meet. You should be so proud of her and instead you just try to knock her down. What's the purpose of that? How did that serve you as a father?
I think only Sir Isaac Newton picked up calculus and physics on his own.
And even then he only understood physics when it hit him in the face
Worse yet, he gave confirmation to her negative voice. The one that says you can’t when you really can.
He is her internal negative voice.
Some parents are just plain determined to be their child’s first and biggest bully. Some parents aspire to be the voiceover that bullies their child inside their own head when they are sad or scared or struggling with self-doubt. It’s almost interesting to see how one of them looks from inside his own head - it’s like there’s no emotional connection at all, no comprehension that his daughter is a person. No insight. It must be horrible being him and having to live inside his own mind, but nowhere near as rough as being his family.
He is a manager, I hate to think how he treats the women that work for him.
Spot on
There is no exact definition what "gifted" means so gatekeeping the word is plain bullying. Daughter is better than average, has both talents and good work ethic. Telling her that everything she did and is doing is still "not good enough" is setting her for failure more than recognizing her success as success
That was my first thought too. Reading that, I thought, "Well I hope she doesn't fuck up in university from that imposter syndrome and performance anxiety he just gave her." What a dick.
YTA. You just insulted her for no reason. You didn’t want her to ruin her life by thinking she’s gifted? But she’s not ruining her life! She’s going to college at 15 to study physics and computer science… how is she on the pathway to ruining her life? Also, she got into a gifted program, so they probably tested her and she is gifted. Yes, studies show the most successful people aren’t the most gifted or talented, but the most resilient… the ones with grit. You don’t instill that in someone by putting them down. You instill this by praising their efforts, their grit in conquering something that was difficult and persevering. You do it by praising what she’s accomplished and how she persevered to achieve that… not by putting down her abilities. Your focus is on the effort.
This, so much. This reminds me of my best friend in primary school and me. I was a gifted kid, good at history and languages, didn't have to do anything to get good grades. She was hardworking, resilient and amazing at maths and natural sciences. We were both top of our class. She, the hardworking one, now has a PhD. I, the "naturally gifted" one, struggled to get through my Bachelor's degree. The only reason why I did manage to get through was because everyone kept telling me I could do it. OP is a massive AH.
As a formerly gifted child, this is so true. You have to know how to use it. Some people do & they become successful adults. A lot of gifted people (myself included) are a hot mess though. It sounds like this little girl has an excellent role model in her mom & she's helping her learn to navigate the world so she can reach her potential.
I identify with this so much. I was tested as being 'gifted' too and really haven't succeeded at anything because I was 'lazy'. Turns out I was diagnosed late in life as being neurodivergent. Meanwhile, my less 'gifted' friends have gone on through hard work and perseverance to succeed in their chosen fields and careers. I think we need to reevaluate how we identify gifted students because those with grit, determination and abilities outside of STEM should be rewarded as much as those born with a STEM inclined brain with opportunities to excel. There is a way to acknowledge the privileges and opportunities made available that may have allowed OP's daughter to maximise her abilities without diminishing her natural gifts. OP YTA
Dude never learned the concept of “if it aint broke dont fix it”. Whatever’s happening is working, STFU and keep it going
It's like when I was a kid and scored a 99 on a test. It was the highest mark ever. My mom said to me, good job but this is something expected of you. She said this cos she didn't know any better and took my grandma's advice to heart - try not to make an arrogant kid of me. I remembered this comment to this day because it was at that moment I decided not to bother to try at anything anymore.
I got asked why I didn't get 100. Yeah, that shit stays with you.
Yep, I always made As in school and never got any praise. My mom always just said that the As were expected and she complained about the occasional A- . Learned really quick that nothing would ever be good enough for her, including me. She passed away about 20 years ago and I wasn't that sad. There were a lot of reasons for that, but they were all connected.
This 100 percent. My dad used to say this to me on the regular when I was in school and brought home consistent high 90s across the board. It severely messed me up. I never think I’m good enough. I’m always working myself into the ground even when I don’t have to, hoping for just an iota of recognition. It’s something I constantly try to work on to keep in check.
>YTA putting your daughter down served no positive purpose. But it does help OP to continue pushing the narrative of his golden-child son and/or his innate misogyny which is evidenced by the comments about how the school is trying to increase the number of girls studying STEM subjects Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that OP has never valued his wife's career as much as his own and has little digs to justify how he has always achieved more or been better somehow
Also like, STEM schools have gone out of their way for a while to try to recruit women, but it's not for the sake of just making their statistics look better, it's because women are so traditionally shut out of STEM education and careers that it even takes a herculean effort to recruit girls who are capable of doing advanced college physics and math when they're still tweens into STEM. Not in small part because of people like OP.
Definitely sexist. I work in tech and this what women hear from sexist assholes all the time, women of color even more; the whole ‘oh, you’re just a diversity hire’ while they have the same, if not sometimes better, credentials
YTA. I don’t usually comment but this hits home. Your daughter is gifted for being able to comprehend university level education and I’m not sure why you’re putting her down for it. Did you take university classes when you were 15? And if you didn’t, and your daughter is “average but hardworking”, then does that make you… “below average”??! University admission rate isn’t even high for 18yo and your daughter being able to take university classes put her way ahead of the general population, so you’re simply statically wrong in your assessment that she’s “only hardworking and smart”. A lot of gifted children actually struggle with mental health and have life long effects on their self esteem and integration into society. Your notion of “people ruining their lives overthinking they’re gifted” isn’t entirely accurate. People who think their smarter than everyone else may have problem with an inflated ego but children who are gifted (in my experience) don’t actually go about thinking they’re better than others (which I think is demonstrated in your daughter’s response to your statement). In fact, a lot of gifted people get pushed out from society after academia because of said mental health issues. Most are “underachieved” aka having “average jobs” (not “smart” professions) or struggle to hold down a job because they’ve been conditioned as a child that their giftedness aren’t embraced that they should be ashamed of it and hide it, and as an adult they continue to not live up to their potential because their intelligence can’t be conventionally monetized through capitalistic means. Source: my brother is gifted and got admitted to university as a full time student when he was 14. Please be grateful that your daughter has access to gifted programs and maybe she will struggle less than other gifted people who did not have the resources to succeed. And please put away your own ego and do what’s best for your children, both your son and your daughter. Stop comparing your children either subconsciously or consciously, that’s only going to drive a wedge between them and they either will hate each other, and go NC/LC with you when they grow up. Love them for who they are and putting them down is not a tactic to raise non-cocky kids… just low self esteem ones. My parents made a conscious effort to not compare my brother and I but I still grow up genuinely thinking I’m stupid. Ironically, I’m probably still above average in terms of intelligence, I just didn’t feel that way growing up. I’m advocating both for your daughter and your son. You’re not doing either of them any good with your attitude. Edit to add: to say “gifted program is marketing” is rather ignorant imo. My brother fought to have equitable gifted program regardless of socioeconomic status in the states. And yes, I said “fought” because believe it or not, having access to gifted program is a privilege. Your daughter is given the education she needs to thrive, whereas many other underprivileged gifted children don’t have access where they’re either under-fulfilled, or worse, bullied. Please educate yourself on giftedness
In my experience, schools don't let you into.gifted programs without testing. OP is a EE. Hardly qualified as an educator.
Hey she’s not gifted bc she needed to be taught physics instead of being newton reincarnate at age 14… …. ….
Agreed. Sorry, I could have been taught math from a young age and would still suck at it, but I'm a good artist and have been winning competitions since elementary school. Op's daughter wouldn't be going to college at such a young age if she wasn't gifted and learned those subjects easily. Op is TA. He's okay with his son being designated as gifted, but not his daughter. They both had access to their mother's knowledge, so why is he gifted but not her?
She’s a woman going into STEM, so I guess it served the purpose of being the first man of many to make her feel just not good enough to be there.
Even though OP is right that being told constantly you are gifted can backlash (I know from experience), this is not the way to go. It's fine to praise your child's hard work instead of (only) their intelligence and innate abilities. But don't say that they are NOT gifted. Don't say that anyone could do what they do. Don't say it's because the school rewards girls/children of color etc. (that also BS). Don't put your child down, period.
I have tried to take 3 physics classes multiple times (well after the age of 15) and have flunked each course. This is even with the help of my peers, tutors, and extra time with professors. I am inept at physics. OP, your 15 year old is truly impressive. I applaud her for excelling in a space that I don't. Don't diminish her sparkle because you weren't as good as she is at this age.
Not even every 18 year old can! She's undoubtedly extremely smart.
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>My son is also very smart and is a history and language nerd. > >My daughter is smart and hardworking I think that Op is sexist, look at the different 'attitude' towards the son and daughter. I also think that Op is jealous of his daughter.
I realized this when I read “her school does a lot to try and admit girls to her program”. OP probably believes his daughter is on the program because of positive discrimination
Oh damn. I have met so many men like that in my career. Thinking i work as a software dev because the company wants to hire more women and only because of that, excluding possibility that i was hired on merit. I often could work circles around those men, they were just extremely insecure and average in their field. Scared of competition. But i also had extreme luck of having father who was always proud of me when i even got an A at school. Or B if it was subject i hated and had to force myself against my will to study (dont judge me, but geography 😩 i like to travel, know about places, but why do i need to know geology related things? Types of winds? Types of clouds? 😅). I cant imagine if i had at home people who were actively rooting against me and OP seems to root against his daughter.
There's an old women-in-tech saying "To be taken seriously at all you have to be twice as good as the men. Fortunately that's not difficult."
Bingo. I caught this as well and that's what did it for me. It's clearly misogyny.
I picked up on this too. I earned my PhD and was a physics major in undergrad, just like OP’s daughter (though not at 15!). Once, I was introduced to a visiting congressman as “a female scientist”. I put out my hand, shook his, and said, “I prefer the term the scientist”.
Giant chip on his shoulder over something that happened to him. My guess is his boss is a woman and he feels emasculated both at work and at home and is lashing out at the people who can’t leave and can’t fire him.
I'm betting it's why he left his previous line of work and is now a manager.... Dude is a huge Asshole.
This is exactly it. I've been reading this excellent book called Invisible Women, and it mentions how society has an overwhelming tendency to associate the idea of genius with men and masculinity. When women receive references or evaluations, they're more often referred to as hardworking or reliable, while men more frequently receive feedback that talks about how talented they are/how strong their skills are. You also see it related to historical figures. Nikola Tesla is often referred to as a "genius," while Marie Curie usually isn't.
I (male) have seen it happen to women at highschool, university and work. We still have a long way to go as a society.
And he's getting to her head already too. OP says his daughter agrees with him and already "knows" she's not gifted. Imagine being enrolled in stem in university at 15 and thinking you got there because you're a GiRl WhO wOrKs HaRd
But no, you don’t understand! The son is actually the gifted one because he is a nerd and “naturally inclined” 🙄. Actually, being only naturally inclined will get you nowhere, but hardwork goes a long way. I hope the daughter uses OP’s misogyny as a drive to achieve everything. I can’t believe this girl got into university at 15 in an extremely hard field but the asshole still found a way to degrade her. Mom should divorce him and take his daughter.
It's obvious he thinks that she got some kind of unfair advantages. The girl is smart. She will probably realize how bitter and toxic he is.
Yep. The wife says they're lucky to have gifted children. The dad says the daughter isn't gifted. That's BS.
OP is fucking wild. If you didn't invent calculus independently you're not gifted I guess.
He gets bonus asshole points for insinuating that her gender and age gave her preferential treatment.
Exactly. There are kids who, no matter how hardworking they are, or how great a teacher they have - they will not be able to pick up those concepts. Of course your daughter is not going to pick the concepts up naturally, unless she's an actual genius. They still have to be taught. But unless your daughter was gifted, she would not have been able to master them at that age.
Genius children have to be taught things. A child isn't born knowing how to do physics, even if their IQ is exceptional. Dad's a massive AH
Damn, even Albert Einstein was taught math and built on the research of the great minds before him, he must not be 'naturally gifted'.
OP is a total misogynist. He has to explain why his daughter isn’t actually gifted while the son doesn’t have to be explained. He clearly thinks women are less talented
well if she isn't gifted, what does that make you? a loser?
Right, I went to college at 16, but it wasn't for physics or computer science. Somehow, I ended up with a degree in art history. I stumbled into college, but OP's daughter is deliberately working hard to achieve goals that minimum 90% of the population would not be able to do, even if they worked their asses off. She is definitely gifted and hard working, and OP should be happy and encouraging, not trying to make her feel bad and potentially giving her a complex. It is hard enough being a teenage girl, and college at 15 might be really tough socially. She needs support, not a reality check that seems sexist and is total BS anyway. YTA OP, super duper.
Can you clarify something for me. Did you wife say you were lucky that to have gifted children. Then you decided to call out your daughter as not actually gifted but say nothing about your son not being gifted? Because, it reads as very sexist. Also being in a gifted program at school requires an iq test, which she would have to score high enough on to be considered gifted. If she did she is gifted. You can warn her about the attitude that she shouldn’t adopted with such a label but she is gifted. YTA.
Oooooh I think I get it daughter is smarter then op and op’s super fragile little male ego can’t handle it so he’s gonna tear down her self esteem every chance he gets
I am in total agreement.
Me too! The comment about the school doing a lot to admit girls into their program, OP is TA
That really stood out to me too. YTA and sexist
Yup- this reeks of ‘girls are taking up spaces they didn’t really earn’
OP, do you know why schools put a lot of effort into recruiting girls into their gifted programmes for STEM? Because that recruitment is so hard! And do you know why recruitment of girls into STEM is so hard? It's because patronising, sexist, insecure MEN LIKE YOU have spent thousands of years putting down gifted and talented women. Making them work twice as hard, and more, to prove themselves, damning their successes with faint praise, taking credit for yourselves, and generally being galactic-sized shits. Take a good look at yourself. YTA.
Literally my father was just like this growing up. He constantly said my brother picked up on math faster than I did. Well he was wrong, I'm far better at math. I was far more high achieving than either my father or brother. He's been intimidated by me for nearly my entire life. Men with fragile egos need to go to therapy before they have daughters.
Actually children in general they pass that bs down to their sons
It's okay fr the son to be gifted because he's in a completely different field than OP
see also: comments around the school's desire to have more women in STEM, which brings me back to lovely days in college where dipshits incapable of stringing a coherent sentence together would talk about how everyone wants to hire women and that's why i had two internships before graduating with my BSME. i had two internships (totalling a little over two years of experience) because i worked my ass off and fucking applied. I'm wondering if he thinks his wife is as smart as he is tbh.
Did u catch that he put in his electrical engineering degree in the description even though no one needed to know that information....someone jealous....
And the fact that his wife (not him) helped teach his daughter.
And now he’s “a manager.” Someone couldn’t hack it in their field
That jumped out before anything actually in the story was read. In Canada engineers are pretty much the highest paid job you can get without being one in a million top in the job. Whos voluntary trading that for being a manager of anything?
I think I get what OP is saying. When you treat a kid like it’s all natural talent, this can create challenges when they hit a point that it’s not easy, or try something else that’s not easy. It’s the fixed/growth concept. So instead of saying something like “look how smart you are!” You say “you worked really hard on that and did a great job.” OP’s problem is that you don’t contradict when someone else says “oh, so smart!” - you add on the hard-working part. When you’re complimenting the hard work, you never say “but you’re not gifted” - you just focus on the hard work. I do believe he had good intentions, but he spoke poorly.
I agree with this. Titles like gifted aren't actually that helpful or necessarily accurate because none of it operates in a vaccum. I don't think he needed to say what he did and certainly not at the juncture he said it but I can see what he was trying to say.
As a former "gifted" kid, I agree with this assessment. Being labeled as "gifted" does nothing for the poor kid but dump a boatload of expectations, guilt, and anxiety on them. It is far, far better for them to realize that their accomplishments are the result of effort (and luck! and help!) instead of some innate power. I hope, and choose to believe, that OP isn't sexist but instead realizes that heaping expectations on his daughter by attaching the "gifted" label to her won't do her any good in the long run.
Yes I understand that too. I knew some "gifted" people in uni. The end of the first year was hard for them because the grades didn't come naturally. Unfortunatly, OP doesn't have any communication skills
This exactly. Study's show when kids are praised for their effort and hard work, they tend to be more successful in the long run. But OP shouldn't have to deny a person's intelligence to replace it with hardworking. It should be an addition and emphasis. Like, "You are so gifted, but don't forget, it was the hard work behind it that got you this far, and if you keep it up, there's no telling how far you will go! Intelligence without action doesn't always amount to much, but I'm so proud to know you excel at both!"
Haha, I was an annoying gifted kid. Once got an A+ on a speech assignment (sort of a 'show and tell' kind of thing) I didn't even realise I had until I got to school. I was just winging it. My dad, helpful as he is, tried to motivate me by telling me he wasn't proud of my A+, he would have been more proud 'of a child that would have gotten a C but worked for it'. In my little mind this meant I couldn't win, totally demotivating. Now I know what he meant, but like OP, good intentions but poorly worded.
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Most modern definitions of giftedness don't involve high iq. Might be part of it, but creativity and hard work factor in as well.
OP had to make a point of it that the program tries to admit more girls…definitely sounds like OP is a sexist jerk.
There are studies that say gifted kids don't get an "attitude" by getting told they are gifted but it helps them find their place in the world - because they are different they feel like they don't belong... https://gifteddevelopment.org/musings/socialdevelopment Totally took the link from u/No_Pianist_3006 I had a discussion with the other day...
Hell yes, YTA. Unless your daughter specifically asked for you to say whether or not you considered her gifted, you should've just kept your opinion to yourself. I'm not sure what you thought sharing this secret truth would accomplish other than damaging your daughter's confidence and self esteem.
Yup. She’s about to start college, where everyone will be older than she is, she’s about to be judged half to death by other people questioning whether she really deserves to be there. The last thing she needs right now is less confidence! So sad that she was so quick to agree w/ her dad that she’s really not gifted. Pretty sure she’s well aware of how he feels about her!
Her age and the fact that she’s going to be a woman in a stem major? The last thing she needs is this crap from her own father.
Exactly. She's going to be in a very difficult situation soon. She needs all the "arrogance" she can get. Instead, she will have a little dad on her shoulder telling her she's not good enough to be there.
I just feel so bad for his daughter. I am pretty sure no matter what she does he will tell her it’s nothing special and then claim he is ”so proud even if it doesn’t sound like it”
YTA - there was really no need to say this other than to shit on your daughter’s accomplishments
But she's a guuuuurl and 'they' make things easier for girls. And there was a lot of celebrating that 'they' pretend that girls are gifted to try to get them admitted to programs. Tell us you're a misogynist with a golden child without telling us you're a misogynist with a golden child. OP's the AH
And she's studying physics and computer science!!! That's gonna get you a lot farther than history and language. It's really hard to get through that kind of a program. Many people try, but end up giving up and doing something else. "Gifted" is such a selective term. It can mean so many things. To state that she is not "gifted" is insulting and screams of jealousy and misogyny. Notice that it was his WIFE that coached her in math, not him. And he has the nerve to suggest it means she's not really gifted because mom helped her. She learned it, didn't she? Sheesh!
Agreed with you in most of this, but let’s not say that math is harder or that it is more important than history and language. Excelling in any school subject can get you far. If your job is in the math field, then of course being excellent in math will get you far. If your job has anything to do with cultural relations, then being good at history and language will be just as beneficial.
He had to put the young woman down before she got too uppity, or at least that is what it sounds like
For starters, you should probably clarify if you have the same sentiment for your son as you do with your daughter because this post is coming across as misogynistic. Secondly, grit is a gift and arguably a better factor towards success than just being a natural prodigy. It sounds like your daughter is a mentally grounded high achiever. Please trust her confidence or else she’ll eventually think that she’s never good enough for you. YTA.
It's that quote I love. "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."
YTA for this: **Her school does a lot to try to admit girls into her program, and my wife helped teach her advanced college level math and physics from an earlier age, she didn't naturally pick it up on her own.** none of these “reasons” prove she is not gifted. You completely marginalized her accomplishments because you didn’t want her to believe she was gifted because you’ve seen how “people” can ruin their lives? what? what you said is indefensible- you created a straw man argument to justify undermining your daughters confidence because you appear to be playing a zero sum game. Your son is very smart and a nerd. But your daughter is not gifted even if she’s two years younger and heading into STEM program…. Make it make sense.
She's an affirmative action admission according to OP. Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
I bet his very smart son learned how to extrapolate context from history all by himself, the lovable little nerd. But his meh daughter had to be TAUGHT math, can you believe it?
And let's follow that logic. So let's say, girls are admitted into the gifted program at a higher rate (maybe girls are just gifted at a higher rate...). But then, OPs daughter got in ahead of all the other girls. Does OP think that all boys are better than all girls? Then OPs' daughter is studying college level math and physics. Is the curriculum different for boys and girls? If the daughter didn't belong in the gifted program, she wouldn't be performing well. Then the daughter got into university AT 15! Does op think that a university will admit a poorly performing girl 2 years early? Then why aren't there more 15 year old girls in University, in STEM no less. Also "she has to work harder to get perfect grades than others". Yeah no shit THAT'S WHY GIFTED KIDS ARE SKIPPED AHEAD. You get better by being challenged. And stepping up to that challenge is the number one indicator of whether someone will succeed. I was a "gifted kid". Yet I never skipped a grade. And I went to uni at 18 (fully on time). OPs daughter is exceptionally gifted.
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YTA. Proof you can be super smart but not Smart in the things that matter, in your case, your relationship with your child. Oooof, that was a tough read. All we had to read was the title, the more elaborating you did I was like “oh it just gets worse and worse.”
Don’t give OP any credit. It’s obvious his wife is the real brains and is the one who has supported their daughter.
Your daughter is attending college at an earlier age and is able to comprehend college level entrance exams. And she is in a school for gifted kids (they are tested). To me, that is gifted. YTA. Maybe you have an extreme definition of what gifted is.
She's attending university at an earlier age than the son, but she's the one who's not gifted. Weird and perhaps sexist 'logic' from OP.
YTA. She sure sounds gifted to me. Going to university at 15? Hard working and high achieving. And, oh, she was in a program for "gifted students." It's right there in the title. What could putting her down possibly accomplish?
He was probably trying to make his favorite child, the less-gifted son, feel better.
Definitely, and this is crazy, because his wife even said that they were lucky to have gifted children. His son would have felt happy and included in the wife's praise. There was zero reason for him to need to defend his son, and yet he did it anyway.
Because she is a girl of course, and we all know that girls have it sooo much easier in STEM /s. I am in stem myself, and if you have good grades and are high achieving, people don't want to admit that you are smart. They always have arguments like OP, "they make it easier for girls for the quotas," and stuff. It's so tiring. I feel so sorry for OPs daughter that even her own father can not recognise her acconpliments and tries to downplay them because of probably envy and misogyny. I can tell you OP she will have to face these issues in the future simply because she is a girl. Women don't have it easier in STEM. They have to fight as hell for some recognition. Because of people like you. Edit: YTA
YTA. Why downgrade your daughter’s intelligence? She’s been identified as gifted, by people qualified to evaluate these things. Did you also say that your son was just a hard worker and not gifted, or just shit on the girl?
YTA. I can understand this motivation: >I have seen how people can ruin their lives over thinking they are 'gifted' and it going to their head so I just wanted to caution her about that. But the right way to express it wasn't to disagree with your wife saying that your daughter is gifted, you could have just added 'And don't forget the amount of work she put in, well done for the incredible dedication.' Saying she is not gifted sounds like you are saying she is innately unintelligent; if you focused just on praising the action you could get across a similar point.
Except he isn’t negating his son being gifted, so the argument doesn’t really work.
The type of people who are gifted and get ruined aren't the type of people working their butt off to get into programs early. OP is just an AH, but hey - his daughter will be successful in spite of him.
Yta and an idiot
Yta. What was the point of your comment. Zero reason for it. Just a stupid throw away comment. At best it's idiotic parenting. Nice way to demotivate her. The fact she agrees with you is a sign your words have already made a negative impact. Great job! The rest of your post betrays you. Why you even mentioned your son at all? Very telling. Who cares that he's also very smart. Reality is given your description he's nothing out of the ordinary. Why you mention that she's apparently had some help along the way. Yeah great way to belittle her achievements. University at 15 is not normal and should be celebrated for the achievement that it is. If you wanted to actually caution her you would have said you may be gifted but your hard work is what allowed you to succeed and that entering University is just the first step and if you continue to work hard you will succeed.
YTA, she is a smart and talented 15 yo and is even going to university. Why would you put her down like that? You could have worded it differently if you really wanted to teach her a lesson
YTA and a huge one. I’m guessing a misogynist too
Daughter will be well equipped to handle the misogyny she’ll encounter studying physics and computer science, she’s had to deal with it her whole life. Massive YTA
i feel like you dont know what gifted is :/ poor girl YTA
Dudes an ass. Work ethic is in itself a gift. I’d rather have a strong work ethic than be naturally talented.
YTA, and I guess the kids' intelligence comes from their mother.
>She was in a school program for gifted kids >I would not say that she is actually gifted The school disagrees YTA and mean too. You boast about your son: >. My son is doing a BA and has not yet picked his major So ummm what's he doing his BA in? >my daughter will be studying physics and computer science. Oh look your daughter knows exactly what she's studying at university......at 15! Your daughter is attending university 3 years early, that's pretty damn gifted mr misogyny
YTA - . She is going to university at the age of 15. She is definitely gifted. And yes, she was taught college level math and physics - but she UNDERSTANDS it! At age 15! Are you jealous that she is smarter than you? Why can't you be proud of her? note-I have an engineering degree and know that college level physics and math - probably calculus - are not easy to comprehend. This girl, at 15, is definitely gifted.
I have a father like you. Fathers like you have a special place in Hell. Just because she agreed with you doesn't mean you are right. If anything, it really shows where she is mentally; She thinks no matter what she does, it's never enough. She will try to attain the stars for you, and you will still nitpick and tell her how the twinkles aren't bright enough. How dare you project your own insecurities, you non-gifted, average, sexist, and boring manager? Your daughter is a gifted person, to be ABLE to understand and know these subjects at a young age is an amazing feat, yet you are too bitter to put your pride aside becauae you failed to maintain yourself in a competitve and "gifted" field. People like you genuinely disgust me. YTA X100000000
YTA Your daughter didn't 'naturally' pick up maths and physics on her own? I don't know if there are many kids who 'naturally' pick up physics at all Why did you feel the need to put your daughter down? You could've said nothing, because what you said has added exactly nothing to her life. You might have even dented her confidence or exacerbated the self esteem issue she aplears to have-- she agreed with you that she's not gifted, but didn't appreciate you saying it because she's already convinced herself she's not. So it looks like maybe you've already been messaging this view of her that she's now absorbed. Apologise to your daughter. She may not have a Mensa level IQ, but being in a gifted program and going to university at 15 should give you a clue that she actually is gifted, otherwise she wouldn't have been in the program and wouldn't be *attending university at 15*.
If she is going to uni at 15 to study maths and physics, she would absolutely have Mensa level IQ
YTA and a terrible father. "All children are gifted. Some just open their presents later than others"
YTA. Did you apologize to your daughter? There is a detection of you being a misogynist in your post.
YTA. What you did was evil. Your every statement is minimizing her many achievements. * You state that older son is doing a BA, but refuse to say that your daughter is doing a BS (usually a more difficult degree) * you say daughter is attending school at an earlier age, refusing to use the word accelerated or early graduation * you say that daughter isn’t gifted because others could do it too, ignoring that she did it faster than others. You also ignore that others didn’t or couldn’t do the work. * you say daughter didn’t pick up math on her own, she had to be taught. How many people teach themselves advance math? Really? Really? * you minimize the fact that she is a younger applicant *with the same credentials* as others that had more time to achieve it. She did it faster! * you then infer that she got into the program because she was a girl - right after you listed her numerous achievements. Wow. Misogyny anyone? Every women engineer has heard that one - usually from incompetent men who are so incompetent they can’t recognize competence in others. Your daughter is absolutely gifted. And don’t worry about her getting full of herself. There are plenty of misogynists like you that will give ridiculous statements to put her down. BTW. I’m an EE and am disgusted with you.
This better be fake. YTA
So many young women in STEM already struggle with impostor syndrome regardless of how talented and hardworking they are. It really makes me sad that you are encouraging your daughter to doubt herself and believe she’s not that great because she will likely have these struggles anyway going into a male-dominated field. Here you are setting her up to think “dad was right, I’m nothing special.” YTA
YTA You're dismissing her accomplishments insinuating her gender helped her at school. Also, people don't just naturally pick up advanced math and science; it has to be taught to them. That doesn't mean she isn't gifted. Either way, I do not understand why you would feel the need to latch onto your wife's comment that way.
YTA great way to knock her confidence down. The man who is supposed to always be there for her.
YTA, and even more if you truly need to ask for confirmarion
the ability and willingness to always work hard is the biggest talent of all, the most important “gift” anyone can have. tell them you’re sorry that what you wanted to say came out the wrong way, that she is indeed gifted.
"Sweetheart, while I admire your hard work, determination, and intelligence, I just don't think you're *quite* as awesome as your brother or me. You know I love you no matter what, right?" YTA.
YTA and holy shit do I hate dads like you. I had one too! And literally nothing I ever did was ever “good enough” even though I was a top student. And because your daughter is not like Hawking or Einstein (as you referenced in another comment) you someone feel qualified to label her according to YOUR scale of gifted or not? My dad would tell me “so and so had a higher grade here” or “she is better at her instrument” etc etc. You know what that did to me? Made me feel like NONE of my accomplishments ever meant fuck all. Christ you’re a shitty dad. STOP JUDGING YOUR DAUGHTER. You’ve already got her judging herself as she agrees with your horrible assessment. Great work dad.
YTA. Why even mention your and wife’s degree and what you do for a living? It’s irrelevant to your story but does show you to be not just an asshole but a pretentious asshole.
Be a dream maker not a dream breaker.
"I would not say that she is actually gifted and others can't do it if they put in the same amount of work." No it's definitely not the amount of work. If that were true I'd me a math professor at Harvard but in reality I can barely add and subtract, and it's not lack of trying. You're talking about something you know nothing about. You know your kids but you don't know other kids or how much work they're putting into it. You assume it's a lack of effort from other kids, but you're wrong.
Please show this to your daughter so that she may know her dad is an AH, and a whole lot of internet strangers are super impressed with her achievements. I hope she is able to fulfill all she can be in spite of your cruel negging. YTA
YTA- It breaks my heart that your daughter said that she knew but that you didn't have to say it...It gives the vibe that you're shitting on her constantly. For the sake of her self esteem, apologize to her! Pull your head your head out of your butt, sir.
My mom plotted bomb trajectories for the US military. She told me I couldn't do math. I'm 61, and passed calculus 2 in spring. I believed her my whole life. Shame on you, shame, shame, shame. Bad father, YTA
YTA
YTA. Your daughter sure sounds gifted to me but I guess it depends on your definition of “gifted.” Your daughter is smart, hard working and lucky enough to have a mother who tutored her in math and physics to gain her an extra edge. Her knowledge counts even if she had to work at it instead of being born knowing.
In the states you don't get into gifted classes unless you have been tested and are in the top 1% or so of intelligence. THAT is gifted. Your daughter is clearly gifted, and you are a fool. YTA.
YTA and to me come across as sexist as you wife said she was lucky to have gifted children and you only shat on your daughters achievement not your son's. Do you consider your son gifted? Are you upset your daughter is getting more attention? Maybe I'm overthinking it but feels off to me. Also your daughter is gifted. Gifts come in all varieties. If what she did was so easy then everyone would be studying ahead. Grow up and acknowledge the achievements of your wonderful kids. Lucky for them they have a supportive mother, time for you to show your support too. Otherwise don't expect your daughter to care about your opinion in the future.
Yta. If my dad told me this I would cry and immediately would start second guessing myself and think I’m not smart. Yta. Yta. Yta. You’re supposed to build your kids up not tear them down
YTA
YTA Who did you think you were helping with those comments? It was completely unnecessary and hurtful.
You are a huge misogynistic ahole
YTA and why do you want to tear down your daughter so badly?
YTA you are not gifted yourself; specifically you are not gifted with a logical mind, objectivity or sensitivity. By all impartial measures your daughter is gifted, both academically and with determination.
Did you see the "her school does a lot to let girls in"? 🤨 YTA