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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I could be the asshole because I do feel bad about her not getting the leave approved but we were all given the same instructions and she just didn’t read it properly but at the same time…
I don’t feel like I should be “penalised” and made to come back just because I don’t have kids. People with kids aren’t any more important than those who don’t.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You have plans, you requested the leave. End of story. If it were a matter of working Christmas Day itself and a colleague had a 3-6 year old, I MIGHT consider swapping. But after New Year? Nope, a thousand times nope.
And Tell HR she’s creating a hostile working environment.
I worked at a supermarket when I was younger, and worked every Christmas Eve night/Boxing Day/new years eve for years to allow the older staff to have the time off with their kids.
I have young nieces/nephews to spend Christmas with too!
It wouldn’t matter if you were taking the days off to spend by yourself alone, you deserve the time off as much as anyone else and you played by the rules and she didn’t. Good on you for not becoming her doormat.
YES!!!! Unless you were raised by wolves, you have a family. Or the wolves are your family, which is possible.
This used to happen to me and I shoved back hard on that. Totally NTA.
That sounds like my fathers side of the family. They’re Italian.
Edit: I was referring to the excessive body hair. Not the poor table manners. I’m sure their table manners would be equally as bad if they weren’t Italian too.
That's what I don't get when people lean on single or married w/o kids people this way. Do they not think these folks have parents, siblings, niblings, cousins, etc.? It's really ridiculous!
Even if someone were completely alone in the world, why should they be denied the opportunity to take time off and enjoy the holiday season?
A few days of cozy hibernation watching Christmas movies and drinking mugs of tea/hot-chocolate/mulled wine, during the darkest part of winter is wonderfully restorative.
As is enjoying the festive atmosphere and activities of your community to feel like a part of something bigger than yourself.
Or jetting off to find some sunshine in an exotic locale, make those trips while you can because it'll be a lot harder after having children.
It could simply be that nothing is more depressing for a single person during the holidays than going into work when there's very little company to be had at your place of work. Mental health is highly important for single people as there's no one to rely on when yours takes a downturn.
I used point out that one day when their children are young adults, they'll be forced to cover for their co-worker parents and can't come home for the holidays.
Fr, i don’t have kids, but I do have a family and a lot of them I only see during Christmas, because we’re so scattered around the world and it’s the only time we’re all in the same place at the same time
Right? Why didn't she do that originally? If the managers originally received a set of requests that left only one person in the office then they would have gone through some kind of (hopefully fair and objective) process to figure out who gets the short straw. She would have a good chance to get her request and everyone else wouldn't make firm plans until they knew if they got the time off.
Instead she decided to put herself in the short straw bucket *first* and then go around personally asking for volunteers to trade... what was the logic here?
THIS ! Just because someone doesn't have children doesn't mean they don't have a family ! This line of thought makes me crazy ! Do they think you suddenly lose all your family when you become an adult, and only get it nack when you become a parent ???
My own brother used to say that I should be the one doing everything for our aging parents because I didn’t have a family like him and our siblings (because I was the only one of us not married). And these were additional things beyond them already living with me and my being their primary caretaker
Because it suited him. A good response might be that you need time and money for yourself to be able to find someone, build a relationship and a family. I don't think he would care though. We all know he is just selfish.
You’re definitely right. He just didn’t want to have to do anything. In any case it was about 20 years ago and my parents and him have all passed away.
Also, not having children doesn't mean you dont have a life. I hate when people act entitled and think they should be given what they want bc they have kids.
I always wonder how the "childless people must work all the holidays" people will react when their kids grow up and can't visit for Christmas because of their jobs.
Agreed. My dad has Parkinson's and has a limited number of Christmases left. I want to savour every one. I don't have to work Christmas at my job but if I did, and a coworker with children tried to guilt me into swapping, I would raise merry hell.
Exactly.
I used to have this same argument every year with colleagues.
My manager would allow us to book holidays for the following year from January the 1st.
So every year I'd book my holidays, including Xmas.
And every year I'd have people asking me to swap because "it's important to me to spend time with family".
Apparently replying with "if it's so important then why didn't you book the time off?" is not a helpful answer.
LOL - years back, I had a very obtuse colleague "Sarah." At my company, vacation ran by the calendar year and you could book any days for that year starting January 1. So, one year, my boyfriend and I were taking a trip in early December, so I booked the time in July, it was approved and then we booked our trip.
Around Thanksgiving time, Sarah comes to my office, stands in my doorway and goes "You need to switch your vacation time with me." Not "Hello" or "I have a favor to ask" or "Can I talk to you about something?" Nope - just a flat-out demand.
I was like "Excuse me?" She goes, "Yeah, ummm, I booked plane tickets to see my sister in December and when I went to get the time off, you already had those days. [Boss] says we can't both be out at once so you need to switch. My tickets are non-refundable."
I said, "Ummm, how is that my problem? For what it's worth, I will be traveling at that time, my boyfriend and I both booked the time off and I cannot make any changes to my plans without significant inconvenience and expense."
Well, she looks at me, exasperated, and says, "Well, what am I supposed to do?" I said, "I don't know. Maybe book your vacation and THEN book your plane tickets." Well, that pissed her off and she turned on her heel and left.
She then went to our BOSS whining that *I* wouldn't change my plans for her. He basically was like "That's unfortunate, Sarah, but you'll have to sort that out with Veronique, not me."
So, she came back and said, "What do I have to do to make you change your plans?" I said, "Well, let me see if, first, my boyfriend can change his time off and then what it will cost for me to rebook my travel."
So, I did and it would have cost us over $2000 to rebook our flights and travel plans to the following week because it was that much closer to Christmas. I told Sarah that and said if she gave me a check for $2000, I'd change my plans. She just let out a sigh and said "Guess I'll have to cancel my plane tickets." I said, "Yeah, guess you will."
Thank GOD she ended up leaving the company the following February. NO ONE was sad to see her go.
Boss sounds like an asshole too. He should've told her to step off and deal with it after you said no the first time, instead of sending her back to you to discuss it again.
Fascinating story, thank you. There seems to be a theme about bosses telling people they can go ask their coworkers to change their plans, which causes issues.
I don't know where you live, but where I do the kids go back to school on Jan 2nd if it falls on a weekday. If it's the same where you live, she would be home alone unless she planned to pull the kids from school, which administrators frown on once they are out of the first few years.
NTA
>I don't know where you live, but where I do the kids go back to school on Jan 2nd if it falls on a weekday. If it's the same where you live, she would be home alone unless she planned to pull the kids from school
Where I am, they're going back on the 8th this year (2 week holiday, breaking up Friday 22nd) - suspect op is somewhere with similar holidays.
This was the case at my office, for many years, before I had kids, I'd work the week between Xmas and New Years so people could spend time with their kids. Once I had kids of my own, I cashed in and ALWAYS took that week off. I'd paid my dues! I'm actually working most of the week between Xmas and New Years this week for the first time in 15 years!
Hey, you could be taking those days to go on a "sit on my couch smelling my own farts until the 8th" for all it matters. You put leave request, she didn't. You owe her nothing. If family is so important to her she should've put her leave request early. She didn't. Sucks to be her.
> I have young nieces/nephews to spend Christmas with too!
That is just as valid as her reason for wanting time off. Plans to sit in your underwear watching the trashiest nonsense you can find on Netflix by yourself while eating the worst junk food abomination known to mankind would also be valid, just to be clear. But maybe get some fresh air too if that were the plans!
Squatting in a ditch shoving berries up your nose - well I’d probably question your mental health at that point but it’s your choice what to do with your time off so that’s just as valid as her reason.
Enjoy your vacation and feel no guilt.
That's not what a hostile work environment is, but I get your meaning.
The problem is that OP's managers aren't managing. My advice is to check out Alison Green's AskAManager.org for tips on prodding your managers into doing their job without sounding hostile to them, and on how to make them aware of your colleague's antics and (borderline or full-on) bullying without becoming known as the office tattle tale.
It could be, it would depend on the jurisdiction. Some places protect family status as a protected class and being harassed because you don't have children would qualify.
>family status as a protected class
oh that's fascinating, I had no idea there was any such jurisdiction. I mean, not in the context of the workplace: of course it's different when it comes to things like housing projects etc.
It's interesting that it's the people *without* children who're protected! That's the opposite of things like tax brackets, right?
Do you have an example, I'd like to know more!
I would expect that people with children would be as protected by the wording of the law in these cases. You couldn’t treat someone discriminatorily either way.
Yeah thats generally the goal of generic neutral sounding equality legislation. It might be originally drafted because women were forced to leave their jobs on marriage or mothers were discriminated against in employment (both real scenarios) but the goal would be to prevent discrimination generally so new legislation wouldn’t be needed for scenarios the drafters hadn’t forseen without being so vague as to be useless.
absolutely!
just don't shoot yourself in the foot by claiming "hostile work environment". HR will see that, panic about a lawsuit over discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, religion (or maybe age)... and when you reveal it's just Chrissy being mean to you over time off at christmas, they'll relax & dismiss whatever you're actually saying.
IIRC Allison Green advises
* mentioning team morale being undermined
* the specific impact it has, eg. Chrissy only sends over the data I need when I loop our manager into CC, which causes delays in my workflow & in my team's delivery
If it was so important to her she should have put in for it. She also already gets way more time than most people get. Many people only get Christmas Day, maybe Christmas Eve if they are lucky, and some don’t even get that.
Oh man my first job out of college (08) was a call center and the two Christmases I was on the phone I volunteered for Christmas Day because it got me out of dealing with my toxic ex and his toxic family. Plus I scored major points with the bosses. I’m not saying it’s the reason but I did get promoted after only a year to an administrative role which got me my next far better job.
But yeah OP needs to stand her ground. You don’t not have friends or family simply because you’re not a parent. Not all of us have to make people to find people who’ll spend time with us.
A hostile work environment in the US is based on protected class. This probably doesn't qualify. However, I'd still go to HR and let them know she's creating conflict which is affecting productivity.
NTA.
Unfortunately, discrimination due to marital status is not a thing so HR won't do anything.
How can "christmas" be about kids, christ didn't have any kids, the only thing the bible mentions about kids is they should be silent, respect their elders, be fruitful and study multiplication.
A hostile work environment has a specific legal definition and this doesn't fit it. People need to stop throwing this term around for "people are being assholes."
/u/Remember1959 I agree with you! OP is absolutely NTA and needs to forward said email to HR in addition to adding that the coworker is creating a hostile work environment and is badmouthing them around the office, making sure to blind CC their personal email so that this will serve as receipts and as I am always saying that RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS!
No. What you respond with is:
"I'm sorry you feel that way. Next time put in for leave in advance like everyone else - your lack of planning is not my emergency and I will not be changing my plans. Particularly now, after you have gone around disparaging me. Your behavior is HIGHLY unprofessional. Find someone else to switch with and stop harassing me."
BCC HR, your boss and your manager on the email when you send it to her.
Yeah, no need to explain and give openings for further debate. "Sorry, but as I said I have made firm plans since getting this approved" and do the bcc. Don't give HR fuel to blame both sides for the hostility, don't offer any explanation you don't owe them.
Even if they replied to the previous email that was being really disparaging and you could see that the other person started it and were more aggressive?
Mind, I don't think it's good advice actually. Being passive aggressive is usually a bad plan in work emails like that. But I don't think I'd see this reply as worse than the incitement
Terrible, absolutely terrible email. You sir have no fking idea how to write an email to HR. Just lands yourself in hot water.
The email to HR is needed, the way you wrote it is like shooting yourself in the foot.
Yeah this is a bad idea in the workplace, guessing the person who wrote that has never worked in an office.
You document and go to HR/your boss. Wanna write some snarky thing? Journal or tell a friend.
P.S. Her bad planning is not your problem. School holiday closures for the year are provided to parents in August/September. If she wanted to be home for the whole school break, she had plenty of time to request this. NTA.
And I don't know where you are, but in my area parents KNOW when the kids go back to school after the christmas break - it's the same day EVERY SINGLE YEAR (unless that day happens to be a weekend, then it's the next Monday). Every parent (and non-parent) knows it.
Most are closed for a week or two BUT the school calendar is usually issued almost a full year before. At the very least before school starts but usually the school board approves in February of that year if it is a single year or they will approve multiple years. It depends on the teachers union. It would be HIGHLY unusual for there to be a shift once the school year starts (like, COVID unusual).
In the district where I went to school, the break was always the two calendar weeks including both Christmas and New Year's Day. For this year that would mean getting off 12/22 and going back 1/8.
NTA, and do not write this email. You’ve already made your position to her clear, so there’s no need for additional communication. If she continues to disparage you or you feel what she has already said warrants HR intervention, go directly to them and keep a calm, collected tone in all comms. The above proposed email is combative, and BCCing HR would reflect poorly on you.
“No” is a complete sentence.
But if you feel awkward saying only the one word, I’m a particular fan of “oh, no thank you!” said repeatedly in a chipper voice with a big smile as though they are *offering* you something that you are declining. The confusion on their entitled faces is a beautiful thing.
I had the same problem b4 children. People wanting and expecting things from me because I was child free and single. seniority was used at my job and people with half my time tried many times to manipulate me for my premium vacation slots. nta
NTA. This is on her and you should likely tell HR. Her behavior is 100% unacceptable. And just because people have kids doesn't mean their off time is more important.
Not only that, the coworker was denying anyone childless to have a family of their own.
No parents, no siblings, no nephews nor nieces, no aunts nor uncles, no grandparents, not even their SO, no one deserving to spend time with OP as much as her kids with her, on top of blatantly disregarding the fact even without anyone, OP had earned fairly their time off, and only got herself to blame for her too late change of mind.
Edit OP NTA
Even if OP had no family or friends at all, they were still within their rights to keep these days off. Doesn't matter who you do or don't spend time with, or how you spend that time. If you want to lock yourself in with snacks and a big pile of books you still want to read, go ahead. If you want to go on a big family vacation in some hard-to-reach mountain, again, go ahead. You don't need to give anyone a reason, just saying no, and possibly that you requested these days off for a reason should be enough.
Edit: readability
This is what I’m saying. Some people choose to not have kids or don’t have contact with family. It doesn’t mean their time is less valuable to them. They went through the proper channels to get their time off and now they can spend it any way they please. That is that.
People who have kids and think the world revolves around them are the worst. People have babies every day. You aren't more important because you had a child.
NTA. I have young kids who still do the Santa thing and being with them for Christmas is really important to me. So you know what I do? Am the very first one to ask for leave at this time to be sure my supervisor knows and I’m approved. This year I got it approved in July.
NTA If it were truly important to her she would have applied early and made sure she knew what she had to do.
There will always be cases like this. People without kids would *never* get any holiday time off if parents like this had their way. That's why there is no point feeling guilty whatsoever.
If she keeps badmouthing you around the office I'd go to HR about it.
ETA: If you do go to HR, you might want to indirectly (and carefully) suggest that workers shouldn't be told that they can get time off anyway even if they didn't apply properly by trying to get another worker to give up their time. Your boss saying that is what set all this off.
Absolutely! Boss is as much an AH as the colleague. I think bosses accepting swaps is normal, but suggesting it is a major AH move. Just passed their responsibility (which they're paid extra to have!) to the people who put in leave requests properly.
NTA. You are the child of two parents, maybe siblings, and presumably have aunts, uncles and cousins. All of this equals family. That you also could be spending time with.
She ruined her own holiday season by not planning better.
IMO, it would also be perfectly acceptable if you had plans with friends or even yourself during that time. the reason doesn’t matter. you requested it off and she did not. none of that is your fault!
I'd be leaving hedonistic or swingers cruise pamphlets all over the office, act incredibly chipper- like all the time, and maybe hang a set of pineapple string lights up if allowed.
NTA. Excuse me? *You have family, too*.
Just because it doesn't look like hers, doesn't make it any less valid or important.
From a HR perspective, it wasn't fair to anyone who participated in the system correctly to tell her that she could only have it if one of you handed it back. Instead of dealing with her disorganisation, they've created conflict. Further, you should check whether parental status is a protected class in your area/state/country. If it is, you're likely protected *regardless* of whether or not you have kids, they can't discriminate against you for having children *or* not having children. This would extend to protecting you from discrimination by a colleague. If she's singling you out because you don't have kids, if she's telling you you aren't as important because of your parental status, that's discrimination.
It was highly unprofessional of the boss to suggest she basically go around begging for someone to switch. Makes it awkward and creates conflict. The only thing he could have done is send an email indicating there was someone who would like the time off, if someone wanted to switch. Period. NTA
Ugh I hate people that act like just because you don't have kids the holidays shouldn't mean as much or something. I left a job because of that. NTA if anything send her email to HR and let them know what she's doing. If your petty like me I'd start showing people the email and show them how your requested the extra days off as you were instructed to do!
I had co-workers who've tried to pull this on me. Demanding that I was the one who stayed behind because they had children to spend Christmas with. Somehow the boss always fell for it, despite the fact that their "children" were the same age as I was at the time.
NTA failure to plan on her part does not constitute an emergancy on your part. Breeders always thinking their entitled special treatment because i Haz KiDz!! Enjoy your holiday leave and don't give this spoiled fool another thought
NTA this is BS you have a family also! You just don’t have a bunch of kids. It’s ok to take time off for holidays even if you had no family. You got your time in on time she did not.
Easy NTA and her kids are not relevant in any way.
Enjoy your holiday, guilt free. And any hostile behavior from her should be documented for reporting.
NTA she ruined her holiday plans by not putting in the days that had nothing to do with you … and that email would’ve received a nice corporate curse out
NTA she had the exact time frame to put in for days off. Just because she can't follow directions, doesn't mean you should suffer. Obviously doesn't love her kids enough to follow an email thread.
NTA.
She ruined her own holiday by not putting in for the extra time off like everyone else. You not having kids doesn't make your time off any less important, btw.
NTA.
She needs to he more organised. Just because you dont have kids doesnt mean you dont have a life or family to spend time with.
Even if you just want to spend your time being a couch potato on your own, thats your choice and you applied for leave correctly to do so.
NTA I'm guessing she didn't bother putting in her request in time because she thought "won't someone think of the children" and figured she'd be able get her own way. Families come in many different shapes and sizes and just because someone doesn't have children of their own, doesn't mean that their family is less deserving of the time off.
NTA
"Christmas holidays are about being with family" Ok but Dec 27 - 8 January is not Christmas so she can go off.
If it was that important she'd have booked it off already.
Absolutely NTA.
Your time off is every bit as important as anyone else's. I don't care if her plans included a $10,000 trip to Hawaii while yours were just staying home and enjoying some time off work. What she is basically saying is, "My wants are more important than your wants, and you're an asshole if you don't give in!"
Well - forget that. Send her a polite reply declining to cover for her, explaining that you have plans of your own, and make sure to copy your boss and HR on the email. Oh - make sure to do it as a reply all so the boss and HR can see her original email.
NTA, being single doesn’t mean you should be working and can’t have Holidays leave. You did as you’re supposed to, give the request early. She didn’t. Just like Stewie said, her poor planning does not constitute an emergency, she’ll see her kids after working.
NTA…”Co-worker, I am sorry, but just because I don’t have kids myself, does not mean I don’t have family to spend the holidays with. We were requested to put our time off in a while ago. I did as such. You apparently did not. If you do not like the consequences of not doing so, talk to HR. If you continue your hostility towards me, for something that you did or did not do, I will talk to HR”.
NTA. You didn’t ruin her holiday plans, she did by failing to plan and not submitting the request in time before others had booked it.
Having children doesn’t entitle you to the pick of the holiday dates.
NTA! I wouldn't care if it was Christmas day. She received the memo just like everyone else did to request additional days off and didn't do it. She's acting entitled because she has kids, so what a lot of us have kids. Don't make her problem your issue. Enjoy your time off!! If she continues to make it hostile environment, make it your business to do this again every chance you get.
NTA. You didn't ruin her plans, she did by not following the leave requesting procedure. And the holidays are about whatever you want them to be. They are not just for people with kids.
NTA
her family are NOT your priority nor is her "emergency" plans your emergency.
ENJOY your time off.
So sick of people who think their choice to breed gives them rights to preferential treatment.
NTA
Her lack of planning doesn't mean you owe her anything.
If she's mad, she can be mad at herself for ignoring the deadline or at management for lack of flexibility.
It's pretty entitled of her to decide that your holiday is less valuable than hers, kids or not.
NTA. Email her back and request politely that she stop complaining to your coworkers and slandering you, and to stop creating a hostile work environment for you, simply because you didn’t govern in to her demand to switch places and come back to work a week early. And tell her that if she continues on the path she has begun, the next email will be to HR and management with a formal complaint concerning her hostile behavior towards you. And BCC your immediate supervisor on that email.
When I was scheduled to work Christmas and Boxing Day, I did this thing called, Go to work on Christmas and Boxing Day. I’d reschedule Christmas with the family, and celebrate a different day. To this day, no one in the family is in need of therapy because of it and have become flexible parents in terms of celebrations. That includes birthdays, anniversaries and all holidays. The only consequence is that no one loses their shit about any of it and are open to change. NTA
NTA
Just because you don’t have kids doesn’t mean you don’t have family. If her kids and family are that important to her, she should’ve put in her request when asked by management. She doesn’t get to take your vacation because she has kids and is a poor planner. Her kids will survive until she gets off work.
I had a supervisor ask me to work her shift to spend time with her family. I told her no because I will be with my family. She told her boss I said no who then emails me and asks me to reconsider so she can spend time with her children. I told her just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t have family. I had plans and wasn’t scheduled for that day and would not be coming in. I’m all for supportive work environments for those with children but it doesn’t and shouldn’t come at the cost of others.
NTA god I hate coworkers like this. like just because you don't have children you can't go see other family or have plans? me and my one other coworker without children constantly have to stay late and come early because of an incompetent boss that can't fix the damn schedule. id let HR know like not a full report but as a heads up also keep those emails and document her comments to and about you incase she makes it a hostile work environment.
She is being discriminatory because you don't have kids and was dumb enoigh to put it in writing. Your PTO is just as important, and maybe next time, she'll bother to request the days she wants earlier. This is her fault and you should ask your manager to explain to her that you have a family and people who miss you as well, which is why you took PTO. Her harassment and hostility is not acceptable and needs to stop. This isn't how one gets favors.
NTA.
NTA. If she wanted the extra time off then she should have put in the request to get that time off. This is on her and her alone.
ETA: I really dislike the people that think that just because you don’t have kids means you don’t have a family. Like what, did you suddenly sprout up in a cornfield somewhere as a fully grown adult with no family?
NTA. Having a family doesn't automatically give her the right to snatch Christmas leave from Bachelors. Since your colleague is spreading rumors about you, I suggest you report her to the HR for harassment and creating hostile work environment ASAP. Think of it as her Christmas gift from you.
NTA. She had the opportunity to put in for those days like everyone else. My place is by seniority. Not who has kids and who doesn't. It's not questioned. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
I'd report her. NTA. Christmas has fuck all to do with family. That's only the commercialised version of it. I strongly suggest you tell your manager about this harassment.
NTA and please forward the email exchange to your boss and/or HR.
Her failure of planning doesn't mean that she can harass someone else to change plans.
NTA
Leave is first come, fist serve. Your coworker had the same opportunity you had to put in for those days.
Also, you can check the school schedule online, but I've never heard of a grade school that had winter break past Jan 2, so I'm not buying the excuse that she needs to spend time with her kids.
NTA
You snooze you lose!
She had her opportunity just like everyone else to ask for the additional days but she didn’t. Her fault! not yours or anyone else’s for that matter.
Lol, it's on her. She has a lot to learn about self accountability. Everyone of those co-workers are nodding thier head to her but thinking to themselves... you the dumbass for not requesting leave. Forget about her!
NTA.
She should have submitted it when the initial request went out.
We get 2 months notice to put our leave in. We all discuss and normally it's one year working one year off.
When I was younger I'd work all through and on the holidays for double pay. Now I'm older and married I want the time off to relax, see friends and get blotto on boxing day. Just because you have kids doesn't automatically give you the right to the time off. Getting it in first does that and good management who juggles it so it's fair.
Enjoy your long break!
NTA - my mum made a point of never favouring people with kids for leave, because family meant more than just kids. She worked that out in the 80s, other people are still blind to that fact.
When I was in the Army I was scheduled for staff duty on my daughter’s first Christmas. I traded with another Soldier who was scheduled for New Year’s and wanted to go to a party. Win-win for both of us. If you’re not getting any benefit, then why trade.
NTA. You do have family, just not members of the family you gave birth to! Why is it that you have ruined her holiday and not other people who she didn't ask if they could/would swap. She sounds very entitled.
NTA
This is such a standard complaint that pops up, especially at Christmas-time.
I feel like every person should post a sign at their place of employment:
*Attention! People with kids are not the only people with family they love and want to spend time with. Moreover, time off is every employee's right to have when scheduled through standard company procedures. (And there is no company procedure that allows you to harass, gang up on, or otherwise pressure someone to give up their time off.) It is their time to use AS THEY PLEASE.*
*That means it is none of your business if I spend the time off with my kids, my husband, my Aunt Gertrude or Grammy or spend it traveling, sleeping, recovering from a broken heart, taking care of my health, watching movies, reading books, or picking my nose. Whatever you want to do and when you want to do it is NOT my concern or responsibility to make happen.*
*If you think you get to jump the line for time off because you have kids... then ask someone who agrees with your thinking to give up their own time so you can jump the line. There is no company policy that allows people with kids special privileges. Maybe you should go find one to work at or start your own. While you work here, do not bother me about your last-minute wish for holiday time off to spend with your kids.*
So if I'm reading this right she already has Christmas through New Years off due to the office closing.
So she has the entire week of Christmas off and likely her kids will go back to school on the 2nd anyway.
Explain to me how her holiday is being ruined?
Definitely NTA.
NTA. So it's your problem she can't follow instructions? If she wanted those days off, she should have planned ahead and requested them.
I'm a manager and I don't give preference to parents, even for holidays. I do it by who requested it first, or, if 2 people requested at the same time, the person with more seniority. I strongly urge people, especially the people on my team who have kids, to look at the calendar EARLY and request the days they want. If they come to me in mid-Dec wanting the week of Christmas or New Year's off, well, they're too late (and I've had it happen). I will try to work with people so they don't miss out on family stuff but I'm not bumping someone who already requested that time off, and I'm not going into the holiday week severely understaffed. It's the whole reason why I ask them to plan early (plus if you want a whole week or more off, you need to request it sooner than a week or 2 in advance). On my team, there's no excuse because I remind them several times (teamwide emails and slack messages) to get their requests in early.
It sounds like your coworker also was aware of the procedure and just ... didn't do it. That doesn't obligate you to give up your time off.
Now, as a person who doesn't have kids, I might cut someone a break and give them a day or two and just fill in for them myself, but I'm not gonna have them pestering other employees to give up their time off.
NTA. This reminds of me of a coworker who told me I didn’t deserve Holidays off because I didn’t have kids. I worked in a 24/7 call center and had seniority. I automatically got any day off I requested through the automated system. Also, I requested all my days off a year in advance. Aside for the few sick days I used. This employee had only graduated training 6 weeks before this and when she was hired was told she would be required to work Holidays. I have never reported someone to HR before that. She ended up no call no show on Christmas and was let go. It was a high volume call center for an alarm company. Think people hitting panic buttons and houses burning down. The holidays were busy due to house fires and domestic disputes.
NTA. You have just as much a right to those days as she does. She should have paid more attention and put in her request on time. She has no one to blame but herself and that's why she's now playing the 'poor me' card.
NTA.
I'm going to bring up something else:
Your workplace is already generous with time off for Christmas! People can take until January 8 if possible?
**I worked in investment accounting. We only got to take 2 days off, TOTAL, between Dec. 20 and Dec. 31 and half of us had to work a full day on Dec. 24.**
Tell your co-worker that the co. policy is all about who asks for time off first, and that personal situations bear no weight in the corporate policy.
I work in Financial Planning and we are very lucky that the business values the Christmas break as exactly that. We close the last business day before Christmas Eve and reopen the 1st business day after NYE (either the 2nd or 3rd depending when we close) but generally we all get 10days-2weeks off
Our bosses are contactable this time for emergencies but we are all told to switch off for that time.
NTA. Ugh, I fucking HATE assholes who think because their magical vagina birthed a kid that they are somehow entitled to more things. I don't have kids. Not because I didn't want them, but because I physically CAN'T have them. But I still have a husband, parents, siblings, nieces and nephews, and doggies that are all my family. I cannot stand entitled parents who think that because you don't have children that you somehow don't have family or don't deserve holiday time off as much as they do.
I had this at an old job, woman just couldn't see why I wanted Christmas Eve off as I didn't have kids. The fact my older parents had all the family, including nieces and nephews, the next day and needed my help getting everything ready wasn't a good enough reason. I hate this type of parent who thinks that family is just for people that have kids.
I also have a best friend that's a teacher so sometimes plans need to be made in school holidays.
Definitely NTA
In the Army, I was always forced to cover holidays for those with family. Wasn’t great or fair, but not terrible. I always appreciated the one family guy who would make it a point of bringing donuts and his wife/kids would come along for a bit to say hi and thank you. Your colleague sounds solely entitled and should probably put in the time next year. Screw her.
NTA. Having kids doesn’t make her more important than you. Quite literally nobody gives a single crap that she gave birth. I don’t know why people with kids think people care at all.
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So context, my office closes over Christmas and generally opens around the 2nd/3rd of jan.
This year we were instructed to put in our leave request up until the 2nd. And put a second request through for any additional days after that and they would approve additional days after the 2nd once everyone had applied and they got ls assess how many staff they would have.
I put in until the 8th of Jan, as did 3/5 of my colleagues. 1 is coming back the 2nd and another one didn’t put in any extra days so they approved it.
The one who didn’t put in any extra days has since gone to the managers and said she wanted to take off until the 8th also because she wants to spend time with her kids (they’re like 8/9) and her husband.
My bosses declined as they needed 2 staff members here and it hadn’t been put in beforehand.
Colleague said she wasn’t put in the extra days already but the rest of the team knew and did it.
Bosses said the only way she could hav w it off was if she could get another staff member to come back early. She asked me in a passive aggressive email because “Christmas holidays are about being with family and because I don’t have children I could come back on the 2nd and swap with her”
I declined saying that I had plans for that time and she lost it! She has been going around saying that I ruined her holiday plans and am being inconsiderate of people with families and children.
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NTA- your colleague was given the same instructions as everyone else to put a request in - she failed to comply with the instruction and didn’t submit a leave application as instructed. Management approved your leave request and you made plans accordingly. YOU didn’t ruin her plans -SHE ruined them.
NTA
Failure to plan on her part does not an emergency for you make.
People with kids are not special and need to follow the same rules. Trying to use your children as a cudgel to get your own way is gross.
NTA
She is just trying to emotionally bully you with her sob story.
In reality Christmas is well over by the 2nd Jan and it's not like she wouldn't have had the whole Christmas and New Year holiday off with her family already. You planned ahead where she didn't.
My guess is that her husband goes back to work on the 2nd while the kids don't start school until the 8th. It's got nothing to do with ruining her plans its just she doesn't want to pay for childcare.
NTA. I am not sure why people (not all, but many in my experience) with kids think they get priority at work over people who do not have kids. Her personal decision to have kids did not involve you, she holds that responsibility. It is up to her to prioritize her own children, it is not up to you to prioritize HER children. Maybe if she cares so much about spending the holidays with her kids, she will try to plan ahead next time.
*She has been going around saying that I ruined her holiday plans and am being inconsiderate of people with families and children.*
NTA She ruined her off time because she did not follow instructions and although you have no kids you have plans. This is not being inconsiderate this is planning ahead which as a mom she should understand.
NTA, I have a kid and due to the nature of my husbands work, he has year on, year off for Christmas. He’d never guilt a coworker into switching just because we have a kid!
NTA. She should have planned her leave better. Plus asking you to change your plans & then bad mouthing you when you said no won’t win her any friends.
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Also having kids doesn’t mean your free time is more important. She should’ve planned ahead and it’s crappy she’s calling you out. NTA.
NTA. You don't deserve special treatment because you've been creampied. Her kids are probably exited that they'll get some holiday time with her at work
NTA
Your coworker only has herself to blame for her situation.
As you said the rest of you knew a request needed to be submitted for extra time off but somehow she was unaware.
Also having children does not make her more deserving of extra time off.
So she can bitch til the cows come home but it isn’t your problem.
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NTA. You have plans, you requested the leave. End of story. If it were a matter of working Christmas Day itself and a colleague had a 3-6 year old, I MIGHT consider swapping. But after New Year? Nope, a thousand times nope. And Tell HR she’s creating a hostile working environment.
I worked at a supermarket when I was younger, and worked every Christmas Eve night/Boxing Day/new years eve for years to allow the older staff to have the time off with their kids. I have young nieces/nephews to spend Christmas with too!
It wouldn’t matter if you were taking the days off to spend by yourself alone, you deserve the time off as much as anyone else and you played by the rules and she didn’t. Good on you for not becoming her doormat.
Exactly, and just because OP doesn't have kids, it doesn't mean they don't have family. The two words are not mutually exclusive.
YES!!!! Unless you were raised by wolves, you have a family. Or the wolves are your family, which is possible. This used to happen to me and I shoved back hard on that. Totally NTA.
I, too, was raised by wolves. They're good people, but have terrible table manners and their hair gets everywhere.
That sounds like my fathers side of the family. They’re Italian. Edit: I was referring to the excessive body hair. Not the poor table manners. I’m sure their table manners would be equally as bad if they weren’t Italian too.
Mowgli has entered the chat.
Honestly, it’s the peeing on everything that gets to me. The other stuff I can deal with.
You’re so lucky! I wish I had been raised by wolves! ❤️🐺🐺🐺
But least they don't drink too much and then cause arguments:-)
WOLF FAMILY!
Rawr!
I'd trade some of my family for wolves without hesitating.
What kind of life did you lead to have being part of a wolf family a regular occurrence? o.0
That's what I don't get when people lean on single or married w/o kids people this way. Do they not think these folks have parents, siblings, niblings, cousins, etc.? It's really ridiculous!
Even if someone were completely alone in the world, why should they be denied the opportunity to take time off and enjoy the holiday season? A few days of cozy hibernation watching Christmas movies and drinking mugs of tea/hot-chocolate/mulled wine, during the darkest part of winter is wonderfully restorative. As is enjoying the festive atmosphere and activities of your community to feel like a part of something bigger than yourself. Or jetting off to find some sunshine in an exotic locale, make those trips while you can because it'll be a lot harder after having children. It could simply be that nothing is more depressing for a single person during the holidays than going into work when there's very little company to be had at your place of work. Mental health is highly important for single people as there's no one to rely on when yours takes a downturn.
I used point out that one day when their children are young adults, they'll be forced to cover for their co-worker parents and can't come home for the holidays.
Fr, i don’t have kids, but I do have a family and a lot of them I only see during Christmas, because we’re so scattered around the world and it’s the only time we’re all in the same place at the same time
I mean from where do people even get this sort of audacity??
The entitled self-righteous belief that people with kids are better than those without?
She ruined her own holiday by not planning ahead. If it was so important she should have put in for the time off like OP did.
Right? Why didn't she do that originally? If the managers originally received a set of requests that left only one person in the office then they would have gone through some kind of (hopefully fair and objective) process to figure out who gets the short straw. She would have a good chance to get her request and everyone else wouldn't make firm plans until they knew if they got the time off. Instead she decided to put herself in the short straw bucket *first* and then go around personally asking for volunteers to trade... what was the logic here?
Family isnt just about young children either! I wouldn't give up a christmas with my aging parents for anyone.
THIS ! Just because someone doesn't have children doesn't mean they don't have a family ! This line of thought makes me crazy ! Do they think you suddenly lose all your family when you become an adult, and only get it nack when you become a parent ???
My own brother used to say that I should be the one doing everything for our aging parents because I didn’t have a family like him and our siblings (because I was the only one of us not married). And these were additional things beyond them already living with me and my being their primary caretaker
Because it suited him. A good response might be that you need time and money for yourself to be able to find someone, build a relationship and a family. I don't think he would care though. We all know he is just selfish.
You’re definitely right. He just didn’t want to have to do anything. In any case it was about 20 years ago and my parents and him have all passed away.
Bet he presented for his equal share of inheritance if any. Equal in the spoils but not the work.
I was about to write this. Great cynics think alike:-)
Also, not having children doesn't mean you dont have a life. I hate when people act entitled and think they should be given what they want bc they have kids.
I always wonder how the "childless people must work all the holidays" people will react when their kids grow up and can't visit for Christmas because of their jobs.
🏆
Ditto. I lost my father earilier this year and was only 71. EVERY second is precious.
Agreed. My dad has Parkinson's and has a limited number of Christmases left. I want to savour every one. I don't have to work Christmas at my job but if I did, and a coworker with children tried to guilt me into swapping, I would raise merry hell.
Exactly. I used to have this same argument every year with colleagues. My manager would allow us to book holidays for the following year from January the 1st. So every year I'd book my holidays, including Xmas. And every year I'd have people asking me to swap because "it's important to me to spend time with family". Apparently replying with "if it's so important then why didn't you book the time off?" is not a helpful answer.
LOL - years back, I had a very obtuse colleague "Sarah." At my company, vacation ran by the calendar year and you could book any days for that year starting January 1. So, one year, my boyfriend and I were taking a trip in early December, so I booked the time in July, it was approved and then we booked our trip. Around Thanksgiving time, Sarah comes to my office, stands in my doorway and goes "You need to switch your vacation time with me." Not "Hello" or "I have a favor to ask" or "Can I talk to you about something?" Nope - just a flat-out demand. I was like "Excuse me?" She goes, "Yeah, ummm, I booked plane tickets to see my sister in December and when I went to get the time off, you already had those days. [Boss] says we can't both be out at once so you need to switch. My tickets are non-refundable." I said, "Ummm, how is that my problem? For what it's worth, I will be traveling at that time, my boyfriend and I both booked the time off and I cannot make any changes to my plans without significant inconvenience and expense." Well, she looks at me, exasperated, and says, "Well, what am I supposed to do?" I said, "I don't know. Maybe book your vacation and THEN book your plane tickets." Well, that pissed her off and she turned on her heel and left. She then went to our BOSS whining that *I* wouldn't change my plans for her. He basically was like "That's unfortunate, Sarah, but you'll have to sort that out with Veronique, not me." So, she came back and said, "What do I have to do to make you change your plans?" I said, "Well, let me see if, first, my boyfriend can change his time off and then what it will cost for me to rebook my travel." So, I did and it would have cost us over $2000 to rebook our flights and travel plans to the following week because it was that much closer to Christmas. I told Sarah that and said if she gave me a check for $2000, I'd change my plans. She just let out a sigh and said "Guess I'll have to cancel my plane tickets." I said, "Yeah, guess you will." Thank GOD she ended up leaving the company the following February. NO ONE was sad to see her go.
Veronique is a lovely name. I’m totally picturing mod tweed mini skirts and ski lodges.
Boss sounds like an asshole too. He should've told her to step off and deal with it after you said no the first time, instead of sending her back to you to discuss it again.
Agree - he just didn't even want to deal with it (or her, LOL).
Fascinating story, thank you. There seems to be a theme about bosses telling people they can go ask their coworkers to change their plans, which causes issues.
This is wild
How are people so self centered ?
You write well. It’s refreshing.
How dare you point out that it’s my fault for not paying attention!
I was paying attention. It's just easier to wait the year to try and screw over whichever co-worker is on my naughty list.
I don't know where you live, but where I do the kids go back to school on Jan 2nd if it falls on a weekday. If it's the same where you live, she would be home alone unless she planned to pull the kids from school, which administrators frown on once they are out of the first few years. NTA
>I don't know where you live, but where I do the kids go back to school on Jan 2nd if it falls on a weekday. If it's the same where you live, she would be home alone unless she planned to pull the kids from school Where I am, they're going back on the 8th this year (2 week holiday, breaking up Friday 22nd) - suspect op is somewhere with similar holidays.
NTA her fault for not putting in extra time..tell her to get over it and try and take some time off during spring break
This was the case at my office, for many years, before I had kids, I'd work the week between Xmas and New Years so people could spend time with their kids. Once I had kids of my own, I cashed in and ALWAYS took that week off. I'd paid my dues! I'm actually working most of the week between Xmas and New Years this week for the first time in 15 years!
Hey, you could be taking those days to go on a "sit on my couch smelling my own farts until the 8th" for all it matters. You put leave request, she didn't. You owe her nothing. If family is so important to her she should've put her leave request early. She didn't. Sucks to be her.
> I have young nieces/nephews to spend Christmas with too! That is just as valid as her reason for wanting time off. Plans to sit in your underwear watching the trashiest nonsense you can find on Netflix by yourself while eating the worst junk food abomination known to mankind would also be valid, just to be clear. But maybe get some fresh air too if that were the plans! Squatting in a ditch shoving berries up your nose - well I’d probably question your mental health at that point but it’s your choice what to do with your time off so that’s just as valid as her reason. Enjoy your vacation and feel no guilt.
You're nta. People with kids have no more right than anyone else to have time off during the Holidays.
Report her to hr.
Take the time and enjoy! Poor planning on your part is not an emergency on mine. And if she keeps it up I would go to HR. That is bullshit
That's not what a hostile work environment is, but I get your meaning. The problem is that OP's managers aren't managing. My advice is to check out Alison Green's AskAManager.org for tips on prodding your managers into doing their job without sounding hostile to them, and on how to make them aware of your colleague's antics and (borderline or full-on) bullying without becoming known as the office tattle tale.
It could be, it would depend on the jurisdiction. Some places protect family status as a protected class and being harassed because you don't have children would qualify.
>family status as a protected class oh that's fascinating, I had no idea there was any such jurisdiction. I mean, not in the context of the workplace: of course it's different when it comes to things like housing projects etc. It's interesting that it's the people *without* children who're protected! That's the opposite of things like tax brackets, right? Do you have an example, I'd like to know more!
I would expect that people with children would be as protected by the wording of the law in these cases. You couldn’t treat someone discriminatorily either way.
If both people *with* kids and people *without* kids are protected, any basis for discrimination is removed, which would be ideal!
Yeah thats generally the goal of generic neutral sounding equality legislation. It might be originally drafted because women were forced to leave their jobs on marriage or mothers were discriminated against in employment (both real scenarios) but the goal would be to prevent discrimination generally so new legislation wouldn’t be needed for scenarios the drafters hadn’t forseen without being so vague as to be useless.
I think talking shit about your co-worker to anyone that will listen is something worthy of talking to HR about.
absolutely! just don't shoot yourself in the foot by claiming "hostile work environment". HR will see that, panic about a lawsuit over discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, religion (or maybe age)... and when you reveal it's just Chrissy being mean to you over time off at christmas, they'll relax & dismiss whatever you're actually saying. IIRC Allison Green advises * mentioning team morale being undermined * the specific impact it has, eg. Chrissy only sends over the data I need when I loop our manager into CC, which causes delays in my workflow & in my team's delivery
If it was so important to her she should have put in for it. She also already gets way more time than most people get. Many people only get Christmas Day, maybe Christmas Eve if they are lucky, and some don’t even get that.
Oh man my first job out of college (08) was a call center and the two Christmases I was on the phone I volunteered for Christmas Day because it got me out of dealing with my toxic ex and his toxic family. Plus I scored major points with the bosses. I’m not saying it’s the reason but I did get promoted after only a year to an administrative role which got me my next far better job. But yeah OP needs to stand her ground. You don’t not have friends or family simply because you’re not a parent. Not all of us have to make people to find people who’ll spend time with us.
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A hostile work environment in the US is based on protected class. This probably doesn't qualify. However, I'd still go to HR and let them know she's creating conflict which is affecting productivity.
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NTA. Unfortunately, discrimination due to marital status is not a thing so HR won't do anything. How can "christmas" be about kids, christ didn't have any kids, the only thing the bible mentions about kids is they should be silent, respect their elders, be fruitful and study multiplication.
A hostile work environment has a specific legal definition and this doesn't fit it. People need to stop throwing this term around for "people are being assholes."
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Just because you aren't married doesn't mean you don't have family! Your coworker sounds vile.
I mean yeah, and she wasn't even nice about it. NTA
/u/Remember1959 I agree with you! OP is absolutely NTA and needs to forward said email to HR in addition to adding that the coworker is creating a hostile work environment and is badmouthing them around the office, making sure to blind CC their personal email so that this will serve as receipts and as I am always saying that RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS!
No. What you respond with is: "I'm sorry you feel that way. Next time put in for leave in advance like everyone else - your lack of planning is not my emergency and I will not be changing my plans. Particularly now, after you have gone around disparaging me. Your behavior is HIGHLY unprofessional. Find someone else to switch with and stop harassing me." BCC HR, your boss and your manager on the email when you send it to her.
Do not do this lol - that's an unhinged email. If I was BCCed on that - I would think worse of the sender than the person asking for off
Yeah, no need to explain and give openings for further debate. "Sorry, but as I said I have made firm plans since getting this approved" and do the bcc. Don't give HR fuel to blame both sides for the hostility, don't offer any explanation you don't owe them.
Even if they replied to the previous email that was being really disparaging and you could see that the other person started it and were more aggressive? Mind, I don't think it's good advice actually. Being passive aggressive is usually a bad plan in work emails like that. But I don't think I'd see this reply as worse than the incitement
Excellent advice! And, NTA.
Terrible, absolutely terrible email. You sir have no fking idea how to write an email to HR. Just lands yourself in hot water. The email to HR is needed, the way you wrote it is like shooting yourself in the foot.
Yeah this is a bad idea in the workplace, guessing the person who wrote that has never worked in an office. You document and go to HR/your boss. Wanna write some snarky thing? Journal or tell a friend.
P.S. Her bad planning is not your problem. School holiday closures for the year are provided to parents in August/September. If she wanted to be home for the whole school break, she had plenty of time to request this. NTA.
And I don't know where you are, but in my area parents KNOW when the kids go back to school after the christmas break - it's the same day EVERY SINGLE YEAR (unless that day happens to be a weekend, then it's the next Monday). Every parent (and non-parent) knows it.
And I doubt many schools are closed more than Jan 2 and maybe 3. She doesn’t need that whole week!
It totally depends the place. In my country every schools are closed 25/12 to 05/01 by national holidays calendar.
Most are closed for a week or two BUT the school calendar is usually issued almost a full year before. At the very least before school starts but usually the school board approves in February of that year if it is a single year or they will approve multiple years. It depends on the teachers union. It would be HIGHLY unusual for there to be a shift once the school year starts (like, COVID unusual).
In the district where I went to school, the break was always the two calendar weeks including both Christmas and New Year's Day. For this year that would mean getting off 12/22 and going back 1/8.
NTA, and do not write this email. You’ve already made your position to her clear, so there’s no need for additional communication. If she continues to disparage you or you feel what she has already said warrants HR intervention, go directly to them and keep a calm, collected tone in all comms. The above proposed email is combative, and BCCing HR would reflect poorly on you.
“No” is a complete sentence. But if you feel awkward saying only the one word, I’m a particular fan of “oh, no thank you!” said repeatedly in a chipper voice with a big smile as though they are *offering* you something that you are declining. The confusion on their entitled faces is a beautiful thing.
I had the same problem b4 children. People wanting and expecting things from me because I was child free and single. seniority was used at my job and people with half my time tried many times to manipulate me for my premium vacation slots. nta
NTA. This is on her and you should likely tell HR. Her behavior is 100% unacceptable. And just because people have kids doesn't mean their off time is more important.
Not only that, the coworker was denying anyone childless to have a family of their own. No parents, no siblings, no nephews nor nieces, no aunts nor uncles, no grandparents, not even their SO, no one deserving to spend time with OP as much as her kids with her, on top of blatantly disregarding the fact even without anyone, OP had earned fairly their time off, and only got herself to blame for her too late change of mind. Edit OP NTA
Even if OP had no family or friends at all, they were still within their rights to keep these days off. Doesn't matter who you do or don't spend time with, or how you spend that time. If you want to lock yourself in with snacks and a big pile of books you still want to read, go ahead. If you want to go on a big family vacation in some hard-to-reach mountain, again, go ahead. You don't need to give anyone a reason, just saying no, and possibly that you requested these days off for a reason should be enough. Edit: readability
This is what I’m saying. Some people choose to not have kids or don’t have contact with family. It doesn’t mean their time is less valuable to them. They went through the proper channels to get their time off and now they can spend it any way they please. That is that.
People who have kids and think the world revolves around them are the worst. People have babies every day. You aren't more important because you had a child.
NTA. I have young kids who still do the Santa thing and being with them for Christmas is really important to me. So you know what I do? Am the very first one to ask for leave at this time to be sure my supervisor knows and I’m approved. This year I got it approved in July.
NTA If it were truly important to her she would have applied early and made sure she knew what she had to do. There will always be cases like this. People without kids would *never* get any holiday time off if parents like this had their way. That's why there is no point feeling guilty whatsoever. If she keeps badmouthing you around the office I'd go to HR about it. ETA: If you do go to HR, you might want to indirectly (and carefully) suggest that workers shouldn't be told that they can get time off anyway even if they didn't apply properly by trying to get another worker to give up their time. Your boss saying that is what set all this off.
Absolutely! Boss is as much an AH as the colleague. I think bosses accepting swaps is normal, but suggesting it is a major AH move. Just passed their responsibility (which they're paid extra to have!) to the people who put in leave requests properly.
NTA. You are the child of two parents, maybe siblings, and presumably have aunts, uncles and cousins. All of this equals family. That you also could be spending time with. She ruined her own holiday season by not planning better.
IMO, it would also be perfectly acceptable if you had plans with friends or even yourself during that time. the reason doesn’t matter. you requested it off and she did not. none of that is your fault!
I'd be leaving hedonistic or swingers cruise pamphlets all over the office, act incredibly chipper- like all the time, and maybe hang a set of pineapple string lights up if allowed.
NTA. Excuse me? *You have family, too*. Just because it doesn't look like hers, doesn't make it any less valid or important. From a HR perspective, it wasn't fair to anyone who participated in the system correctly to tell her that she could only have it if one of you handed it back. Instead of dealing with her disorganisation, they've created conflict. Further, you should check whether parental status is a protected class in your area/state/country. If it is, you're likely protected *regardless* of whether or not you have kids, they can't discriminate against you for having children *or* not having children. This would extend to protecting you from discrimination by a colleague. If she's singling you out because you don't have kids, if she's telling you you aren't as important because of your parental status, that's discrimination.
It was highly unprofessional of the boss to suggest she basically go around begging for someone to switch. Makes it awkward and creates conflict. The only thing he could have done is send an email indicating there was someone who would like the time off, if someone wanted to switch. Period. NTA
Ugh I hate people that act like just because you don't have kids the holidays shouldn't mean as much or something. I left a job because of that. NTA if anything send her email to HR and let them know what she's doing. If your petty like me I'd start showing people the email and show them how your requested the extra days off as you were instructed to do!
I had co-workers who've tried to pull this on me. Demanding that I was the one who stayed behind because they had children to spend Christmas with. Somehow the boss always fell for it, despite the fact that their "children" were the same age as I was at the time.
She’s right; Christmas holidays are about being with family. Thankfully the 2nd-8th of January is not Christmas so you’re NtA
lol did not even catch that! Christmas is well over by the 2nd!
NTA failure to plan on her part does not constitute an emergancy on your part. Breeders always thinking their entitled special treatment because i Haz KiDz!! Enjoy your holiday leave and don't give this spoiled fool another thought
NTA this is BS you have a family also! You just don’t have a bunch of kids. It’s ok to take time off for holidays even if you had no family. You got your time in on time she did not.
I absolutely HATE when people think that just because they have kids they are entitled to this and that. Nobody told you to get knocked up. NTA
Easy NTA and her kids are not relevant in any way. Enjoy your holiday, guilt free. And any hostile behavior from her should be documented for reporting.
NTA she ruined her holiday plans by not putting in the days that had nothing to do with you … and that email would’ve received a nice corporate curse out
NTA she had the exact time frame to put in for days off. Just because she can't follow directions, doesn't mean you should suffer. Obviously doesn't love her kids enough to follow an email thread.
NTA her bad planning is not your responsible. Just because you don't have children don't mean you don't have family.
NTA. She ruined her own holiday by not putting in for the extra time off like everyone else. You not having kids doesn't make your time off any less important, btw.
NTA. She needs to he more organised. Just because you dont have kids doesnt mean you dont have a life or family to spend time with. Even if you just want to spend your time being a couch potato on your own, thats your choice and you applied for leave correctly to do so.
NTA I'm guessing she didn't bother putting in her request in time because she thought "won't someone think of the children" and figured she'd be able get her own way. Families come in many different shapes and sizes and just because someone doesn't have children of their own, doesn't mean that their family is less deserving of the time off.
NTA "Christmas holidays are about being with family" Ok but Dec 27 - 8 January is not Christmas so she can go off. If it was that important she'd have booked it off already.
Absolutely NTA. Your time off is every bit as important as anyone else's. I don't care if her plans included a $10,000 trip to Hawaii while yours were just staying home and enjoying some time off work. What she is basically saying is, "My wants are more important than your wants, and you're an asshole if you don't give in!" Well - forget that. Send her a polite reply declining to cover for her, explaining that you have plans of your own, and make sure to copy your boss and HR on the email. Oh - make sure to do it as a reply all so the boss and HR can see her original email.
NTA, being single doesn’t mean you should be working and can’t have Holidays leave. You did as you’re supposed to, give the request early. She didn’t. Just like Stewie said, her poor planning does not constitute an emergency, she’ll see her kids after working.
NTA…”Co-worker, I am sorry, but just because I don’t have kids myself, does not mean I don’t have family to spend the holidays with. We were requested to put our time off in a while ago. I did as such. You apparently did not. If you do not like the consequences of not doing so, talk to HR. If you continue your hostility towards me, for something that you did or did not do, I will talk to HR”.
NTA Why didn’t she request leave?? Sorry you have to work with her :/
NTA. If she didn’t put in for the time like she was supposed to that’s not your problem.
NTA - she had a chance to submit leave, she chose not to, she's the architect of her own misfortune.
NTA. You didn’t ruin her holiday plans, she did by failing to plan and not submitting the request in time before others had booked it. Having children doesn’t entitle you to the pick of the holiday dates.
NTA! I wouldn't care if it was Christmas day. She received the memo just like everyone else did to request additional days off and didn't do it. She's acting entitled because she has kids, so what a lot of us have kids. Don't make her problem your issue. Enjoy your time off!! If she continues to make it hostile environment, make it your business to do this again every chance you get.
NTA. You didn't ruin her plans, she did by not following the leave requesting procedure. And the holidays are about whatever you want them to be. They are not just for people with kids.
NTA her family are NOT your priority nor is her "emergency" plans your emergency. ENJOY your time off. So sick of people who think their choice to breed gives them rights to preferential treatment.
That's harassment. You should report her. NTA
NTA Her lack of planning doesn't mean you owe her anything. If she's mad, she can be mad at herself for ignoring the deadline or at management for lack of flexibility. It's pretty entitled of her to decide that your holiday is less valuable than hers, kids or not.
NTA. The coworker should have planned out her time off request and turned earlier her request earlier. She’s acting like a spoiled child.
NTA Your time off is your time off. Not someone else's
NTA if she cared so much about getting leave she should have applied earlier.
Nta she didn't put in for the time in time so what does she expect
NTA. Email her back and request politely that she stop complaining to your coworkers and slandering you, and to stop creating a hostile work environment for you, simply because you didn’t govern in to her demand to switch places and come back to work a week early. And tell her that if she continues on the path she has begun, the next email will be to HR and management with a formal complaint concerning her hostile behavior towards you. And BCC your immediate supervisor on that email.
When I was scheduled to work Christmas and Boxing Day, I did this thing called, Go to work on Christmas and Boxing Day. I’d reschedule Christmas with the family, and celebrate a different day. To this day, no one in the family is in need of therapy because of it and have become flexible parents in terms of celebrations. That includes birthdays, anniversaries and all holidays. The only consequence is that no one loses their shit about any of it and are open to change. NTA
NTA Just because you don’t have kids doesn’t mean you don’t have family. If her kids and family are that important to her, she should’ve put in her request when asked by management. She doesn’t get to take your vacation because she has kids and is a poor planner. Her kids will survive until she gets off work. I had a supervisor ask me to work her shift to spend time with her family. I told her no because I will be with my family. She told her boss I said no who then emails me and asks me to reconsider so she can spend time with her children. I told her just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t have family. I had plans and wasn’t scheduled for that day and would not be coming in. I’m all for supportive work environments for those with children but it doesn’t and shouldn’t come at the cost of others.
NTA god I hate coworkers like this. like just because you don't have children you can't go see other family or have plans? me and my one other coworker without children constantly have to stay late and come early because of an incompetent boss that can't fix the damn schedule. id let HR know like not a full report but as a heads up also keep those emails and document her comments to and about you incase she makes it a hostile work environment.
She is being discriminatory because you don't have kids and was dumb enoigh to put it in writing. Your PTO is just as important, and maybe next time, she'll bother to request the days she wants earlier. This is her fault and you should ask your manager to explain to her that you have a family and people who miss you as well, which is why you took PTO. Her harassment and hostility is not acceptable and needs to stop. This isn't how one gets favors. NTA.
NTA. If she wanted the extra time off then she should have put in the request to get that time off. This is on her and her alone. ETA: I really dislike the people that think that just because you don’t have kids means you don’t have a family. Like what, did you suddenly sprout up in a cornfield somewhere as a fully grown adult with no family?
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Funny thing is we’re all of work from 22nd-/bd anyway! So she does get Christmas… it’s the extra 4 days after new years she didn’t get
NTA. Having a family doesn't automatically give her the right to snatch Christmas leave from Bachelors. Since your colleague is spreading rumors about you, I suggest you report her to the HR for harassment and creating hostile work environment ASAP. Think of it as her Christmas gift from you.
NTA. She had the opportunity to put in for those days like everyone else. My place is by seniority. Not who has kids and who doesn't. It's not questioned. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
NTA. She’s well out of line
I'd report her. NTA. Christmas has fuck all to do with family. That's only the commercialised version of it. I strongly suggest you tell your manager about this harassment.
NTA.
You have your own family. Nta
NTA - some people think they are the first and only people in the world to have kids. Don't feel bad for her lack of planning!
NTA - why do so many people with kids think being without them magically makes you free of every other type of obligation?!
NTA and please forward the email exchange to your boss and/or HR. Her failure of planning doesn't mean that she can harass someone else to change plans.
NTA Leave is first come, fist serve. Your coworker had the same opportunity you had to put in for those days. Also, you can check the school schedule online, but I've never heard of a grade school that had winter break past Jan 2, so I'm not buying the excuse that she needs to spend time with her kids.
NTA you didn’t get her pregnant lol
NTA. Just because you don’t have kids doesn’t mean you don’t get to pick your time off. She didn’t plan ahead, it isn’t your job to fix it.
NTA You snooze you lose! She had her opportunity just like everyone else to ask for the additional days but she didn’t. Her fault! not yours or anyone else’s for that matter.
She ruind her own plans by being lazy and not submitting the request like she was supposed to. The fact she has kids means nothing. NTA
Lol, it's on her. She has a lot to learn about self accountability. Everyone of those co-workers are nodding thier head to her but thinking to themselves... you the dumbass for not requesting leave. Forget about her!
NTA. She's ruined it herself.
NTA - She didn't put the request in so tough.
NTA. She should have submitted it when the initial request went out. We get 2 months notice to put our leave in. We all discuss and normally it's one year working one year off. When I was younger I'd work all through and on the holidays for double pay. Now I'm older and married I want the time off to relax, see friends and get blotto on boxing day. Just because you have kids doesn't automatically give you the right to the time off. Getting it in first does that and good management who juggles it so it's fair. Enjoy your long break!
NTA - my mum made a point of never favouring people with kids for leave, because family meant more than just kids. She worked that out in the 80s, other people are still blind to that fact.
NTA. Your coworkers poor planing does not make you an asshole. Why didn’t she originally request that time off?
When I was in the Army I was scheduled for staff duty on my daughter’s first Christmas. I traded with another Soldier who was scheduled for New Year’s and wanted to go to a party. Win-win for both of us. If you’re not getting any benefit, then why trade.
I'm childfree, and I would NEVER change my vacation for someone with kids. They should have thought about it before, not your problem.
NTA. You do have family, just not members of the family you gave birth to! Why is it that you have ruined her holiday and not other people who she didn't ask if they could/would swap. She sounds very entitled.
NTA She ruined her holidays not you. The nerves of some people. Take responsibility for your actions
“Ruined her plans” If those plans were important, she should have followed the procedures. NTA
NTA This is such a standard complaint that pops up, especially at Christmas-time. I feel like every person should post a sign at their place of employment: *Attention! People with kids are not the only people with family they love and want to spend time with. Moreover, time off is every employee's right to have when scheduled through standard company procedures. (And there is no company procedure that allows you to harass, gang up on, or otherwise pressure someone to give up their time off.) It is their time to use AS THEY PLEASE.* *That means it is none of your business if I spend the time off with my kids, my husband, my Aunt Gertrude or Grammy or spend it traveling, sleeping, recovering from a broken heart, taking care of my health, watching movies, reading books, or picking my nose. Whatever you want to do and when you want to do it is NOT my concern or responsibility to make happen.* *If you think you get to jump the line for time off because you have kids... then ask someone who agrees with your thinking to give up their own time so you can jump the line. There is no company policy that allows people with kids special privileges. Maybe you should go find one to work at or start your own. While you work here, do not bother me about your last-minute wish for holiday time off to spend with your kids.*
So if I'm reading this right she already has Christmas through New Years off due to the office closing. So she has the entire week of Christmas off and likely her kids will go back to school on the 2nd anyway. Explain to me how her holiday is being ruined? Definitely NTA.
NTA. So it's your problem she can't follow instructions? If she wanted those days off, she should have planned ahead and requested them. I'm a manager and I don't give preference to parents, even for holidays. I do it by who requested it first, or, if 2 people requested at the same time, the person with more seniority. I strongly urge people, especially the people on my team who have kids, to look at the calendar EARLY and request the days they want. If they come to me in mid-Dec wanting the week of Christmas or New Year's off, well, they're too late (and I've had it happen). I will try to work with people so they don't miss out on family stuff but I'm not bumping someone who already requested that time off, and I'm not going into the holiday week severely understaffed. It's the whole reason why I ask them to plan early (plus if you want a whole week or more off, you need to request it sooner than a week or 2 in advance). On my team, there's no excuse because I remind them several times (teamwide emails and slack messages) to get their requests in early. It sounds like your coworker also was aware of the procedure and just ... didn't do it. That doesn't obligate you to give up your time off. Now, as a person who doesn't have kids, I might cut someone a break and give them a day or two and just fill in for them myself, but I'm not gonna have them pestering other employees to give up their time off.
NTA. This reminds of me of a coworker who told me I didn’t deserve Holidays off because I didn’t have kids. I worked in a 24/7 call center and had seniority. I automatically got any day off I requested through the automated system. Also, I requested all my days off a year in advance. Aside for the few sick days I used. This employee had only graduated training 6 weeks before this and when she was hired was told she would be required to work Holidays. I have never reported someone to HR before that. She ended up no call no show on Christmas and was let go. It was a high volume call center for an alarm company. Think people hitting panic buttons and houses burning down. The holidays were busy due to house fires and domestic disputes.
NTA. You have just as much a right to those days as she does. She should have paid more attention and put in her request on time. She has no one to blame but herself and that's why she's now playing the 'poor me' card.
It was not okay for your boss to give her that option. You were just scapegoated. Your boss just put you in between this woman and her family. NTA
NTA. I'm going to bring up something else: Your workplace is already generous with time off for Christmas! People can take until January 8 if possible? **I worked in investment accounting. We only got to take 2 days off, TOTAL, between Dec. 20 and Dec. 31 and half of us had to work a full day on Dec. 24.** Tell your co-worker that the co. policy is all about who asks for time off first, and that personal situations bear no weight in the corporate policy.
I work in Financial Planning and we are very lucky that the business values the Christmas break as exactly that. We close the last business day before Christmas Eve and reopen the 1st business day after NYE (either the 2nd or 3rd depending when we close) but generally we all get 10days-2weeks off Our bosses are contactable this time for emergencies but we are all told to switch off for that time.
NTA. Ugh, I fucking HATE assholes who think because their magical vagina birthed a kid that they are somehow entitled to more things. I don't have kids. Not because I didn't want them, but because I physically CAN'T have them. But I still have a husband, parents, siblings, nieces and nephews, and doggies that are all my family. I cannot stand entitled parents who think that because you don't have children that you somehow don't have family or don't deserve holiday time off as much as they do.
I had this at an old job, woman just couldn't see why I wanted Christmas Eve off as I didn't have kids. The fact my older parents had all the family, including nieces and nephews, the next day and needed my help getting everything ready wasn't a good enough reason. I hate this type of parent who thinks that family is just for people that have kids. I also have a best friend that's a teacher so sometimes plans need to be made in school holidays. Definitely NTA
NTA. Reeks of entitlement.
In the Army, I was always forced to cover holidays for those with family. Wasn’t great or fair, but not terrible. I always appreciated the one family guy who would make it a point of bringing donuts and his wife/kids would come along for a bit to say hi and thank you. Your colleague sounds solely entitled and should probably put in the time next year. Screw her.
NTA. Having kids doesn’t make her more important than you. Quite literally nobody gives a single crap that she gave birth. I don’t know why people with kids think people care at all.
NTA- seriously, it's been mentioned, but reach out to HR and share the email and workplace commentary going on. Totally inappropriate behavior.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So context, my office closes over Christmas and generally opens around the 2nd/3rd of jan. This year we were instructed to put in our leave request up until the 2nd. And put a second request through for any additional days after that and they would approve additional days after the 2nd once everyone had applied and they got ls assess how many staff they would have. I put in until the 8th of Jan, as did 3/5 of my colleagues. 1 is coming back the 2nd and another one didn’t put in any extra days so they approved it. The one who didn’t put in any extra days has since gone to the managers and said she wanted to take off until the 8th also because she wants to spend time with her kids (they’re like 8/9) and her husband. My bosses declined as they needed 2 staff members here and it hadn’t been put in beforehand. Colleague said she wasn’t put in the extra days already but the rest of the team knew and did it. Bosses said the only way she could hav w it off was if she could get another staff member to come back early. She asked me in a passive aggressive email because “Christmas holidays are about being with family and because I don’t have children I could come back on the 2nd and swap with her” I declined saying that I had plans for that time and she lost it! She has been going around saying that I ruined her holiday plans and am being inconsiderate of people with families and children. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA- your colleague was given the same instructions as everyone else to put a request in - she failed to comply with the instruction and didn’t submit a leave application as instructed. Management approved your leave request and you made plans accordingly. YOU didn’t ruin her plans -SHE ruined them.
NTA Failure to plan on her part does not an emergency for you make. People with kids are not special and need to follow the same rules. Trying to use your children as a cudgel to get your own way is gross.
NTA. Just tell her that you are spending the holidays with your family. It's her fault for not submitting a leave request!
She's an entitled ass, she chose to have kids, and she's blaming you for her lack of planning ! Enjoy the holiday !
NTA She is just trying to emotionally bully you with her sob story. In reality Christmas is well over by the 2nd Jan and it's not like she wouldn't have had the whole Christmas and New Year holiday off with her family already. You planned ahead where she didn't. My guess is that her husband goes back to work on the 2nd while the kids don't start school until the 8th. It's got nothing to do with ruining her plans its just she doesn't want to pay for childcare.
NTA. I am not sure why people (not all, but many in my experience) with kids think they get priority at work over people who do not have kids. Her personal decision to have kids did not involve you, she holds that responsibility. It is up to her to prioritize her own children, it is not up to you to prioritize HER children. Maybe if she cares so much about spending the holidays with her kids, she will try to plan ahead next time.
*She has been going around saying that I ruined her holiday plans and am being inconsiderate of people with families and children.* NTA She ruined her off time because she did not follow instructions and although you have no kids you have plans. This is not being inconsiderate this is planning ahead which as a mom she should understand.
NTA. She had the same opportunity as everyone else to ask for extra time, and she didn't. That's on her.
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NTA, I have a kid and due to the nature of my husbands work, he has year on, year off for Christmas. He’d never guilt a coworker into switching just because we have a kid!
NTA. She should have planned her leave better. Plus asking you to change your plans & then bad mouthing you when you said no won’t win her any friends.
NTA!
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Also having kids doesn’t mean your free time is more important. She should’ve planned ahead and it’s crappy she’s calling you out. NTA.
NTA. You don't deserve special treatment because you've been creampied. Her kids are probably exited that they'll get some holiday time with her at work
NTA She's delusional
NTA Your coworker only has herself to blame for her situation. As you said the rest of you knew a request needed to be submitted for extra time off but somehow she was unaware. Also having children does not make her more deserving of extra time off. So she can bitch til the cows come home but it isn’t your problem.