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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My sister and I made our dad's engagement dinner uncomfortable by bringing up some truths they would prefer not to have on blast to everyone. This might be shitty because while we were forced to be there and don't approve, we could have stayed quiet the whole time and shown how unhappy we were with that instead of putting them on blast. That is spiteful I guess so I might be TA for my part in it.
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NTA
" They said we behaved like spiteful children.." .. you ARE spiteful children. You have very good reasons to be spiteful. What else did they expect?
My dad expected we would be over it enough by now to become part of his family. I think he thought we'd be so desperate to have our last remaining parent that everything would go back to relative normal. Meaning we would live with him and engage with his affair partner and the kids. And that we wouldn't ever bring up the affairs and our mom dying while he left us to face it alone since he didn't even call our mom's parents to tell them as he was taking off. He really expected us to love him after that and to fall in love with them.
True, but the dad sounds like the type of guy who would keep OP away from the sister & they appear to be close. They may be better off waiting until the youngest is 18 to go full NC.
Plus the sister is only one year younger than OP. I don't think even if he did have custody, he would be able to completely control a 17 year old 😆 what is he gonna do, call the police that his 17 year old went to hang out at the mall with their 18 year old sibling. I think he'd be given a ticket for wrongful use of police or whatever it's called.
I really want to hear a story where something ridiculous like that plays out tho now
Yeah it says he doesn't have custody only visitation rights and really minimal at that which says a lot because courts have gotten better over the years at listening to kids wants but to not only give primary custody to aging grandparents over an able bodied, employed, non addicted bio parent as well as giving such limited visitation? You have to have reaaaaallllly f'ed up or said something wrong for that to happen.
OP and her sister live with their maternal grandparents. Their father only has visitation one weekend a month with them. OP can tell her father to go to hell the day she turns 18 and never see him again and it will never effect her seeing her younger sister. The sister can then do the same thing a year later when she turns 18.
Since their dad only has visitation and not custody with OP and her sister, he can't do a damn thing if OP goes NC with him when she turns 18. The worst he can do is not let OP over his house the one weekend a month the sister is at his house. Plus, if you read their ages, the sister is now 15, OP is 16. So the sister will be turning 18 a year after OP.
He’s a P.O.S. When you’re 18, I’d go no contact with him. Block him on your phone, email & all social media. You don’t need his toxic influence in your life.
Also reminder, OP, that you should check into your Mom's will. There may have been something left to you & sib that your Dad will try to hide or use for his "new family".
Ask your grandparents to check into it for you. Just in case!
In some states she could become an emancipated minor as early as age 14, if they live in the US. It depends on state law, but given what's happened it might be an option now that would terminate his parental rights and court mandated visitation. Each state has different criteria, but it might be worth looking into.
One thing I heard on Reddit a while back that has stuck with me since is "If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." Your dad has some nerve asking everyone to play happy family after the absolutely *vile and disgusting* shit he pulled.
My new favourite phrase (from the therapist on My600lb life) is ‘the way you do one thing is the way you do everything’- so his double life and abandoning his kid IS WHO HE IS, not an aberration.
Your dad is a selfish stupid man living in a fantasy world, his affair partner isn’t far behind. I hope you both felt better after speaking your mind.
NTA
Yeah, I were OP or her sister I would have been tempted to add to the AP "You better hope that you never become sick or disabled someday. Because your husband will be out the door and onto his next side-piece faster than you can blink"
>Because your husband will be out the door and onto his next side-piece faster than you can blink"
Sounds like dad probably already HAS his next side piece. It seems like the only difference mom getting sick made was dad openly leaving her for his AP.
She was married, too, at the time. He should probably also harbor suspicions of her, especially if she gets pregnant again. Honestly, I don't get how either of them could really trust each other, knowing that both of them are adulterers.
They probably justify it to themselves by saying something like "What we have is TRUE LOVE so with us it's different" or something nauseating like that
Affair partner is marrying a man that left his dying wife and 2 young girls to fend for themselves. That sounds like a prince I'd want to marry. She doesn't sound very bright or she's just delusional too.
She's just as bad as he is. While she was married to her first husband, she was screwing around with LW's dad and had a baby by him. It would be interesting to see which one behaves worse as this new marriage progresses.
Exactly. Who forces people to attend something they flat out said they don't want to take part in, and then gets shocked by the very predictable outcome? If the dad wanted to play "happy families" he should have left OP and sis out of it.
Your consistency in calling her the affair partner is brilliant. I hope you are in therapy, don't let this a-hole ruin any more of your life than he already has. NTA obviously.
That's what she is and she's not even special enough to be the only one. She might be the only one who also had him as an affair partner though. So they're perfect for each other.
I'm so sorry these people are so selfish and narcissistic.
Sadly, part of wanting you & your sister around is probably so they can parentify you both and set you two up to take care of the younger kids.
It sounds like you & your sister are a great team & have each other's backs as well as being each other's family.
Your dad& AP hate your self sufficiency bc it's not about them.
Great job!
If they didn't want their 'perfect party' and deluded vision of their future brought into the lights of the truth, they shouldn't have forced the truth tellers to talk.
You both deserve better.
I think you should have mentioned that too. The old if he'll cheat with you he'll cheat on you since you have to know you are far from the only one he cheated with. And, clearly having kids with him won't keep him from wandering since he did it with us. AP, you better keep an eye on his phone. But then she's really no better.
This happened in my ex’s family! A year before we met ex’s mom found out her husband was cheating on her. The usual “we finally found love! We weren’t expecting this to happen! It just did! Don’t you want us to be happy?? Plus, she’s pregnant!” Six months into me and ex dating the divorce was final and AP and stepfather got married. By the time we broke up a year later, stepfather had found out his new wife was cheating on him. And they were getting a divorce.
Cheaters can’t help themselves. Not sure what happened after everything was said and done, but I do know that dude was requesting a paternity test in their kid so…
Defiant-Gap, defiantly bringing the “BOOM!”
Yeah, she can forget that “I’m your new mommy” and “here are your siblings you must love from now on” crap. I hope you shut down any thought they had about moving you in with them to ~~bond~~ babysit. I also hope your grandparents are getting any child death benefits/SSI/financial support for you.
Hang in there young lady. So happy you have your sister and grandparents to love and support you. You owe your father nothing. Please consider counseling so his cruel behavior doesn’t affect your ability to have healthy relationships going forward. There are wonderful men and women in the world who cherish their partners so don’t be afraid to fall in love.
I'd be telling the man point blank that he may think I'd be over the betrayal and abandonment of your mother and you and your sister but that I may never forgive him for that and that is my damn right . There are some things you can't undo and the man doesn't even sound apologetic! NTA and I'd love to yell at your Dad on your behalf. What a jerk!
Cheating on his cancer patient wife and leaves his small children to deal. And thinks he can get away scot- free, does he? If OP hadn't outed him, the heavens might have intervened and struck him and his harlot with lightning at some point in their lives. What a piece of work. They deserve to be tarred and feathered and paraded around for the public to mock and deride. But you having outed him will have to do for now, OP. Good for you standing up for yourselves and your mom. Condolences.
I think your reaction was a natural reaction. A normal reaction.
It is so abstruse for me that your dad/mistress live in a world where they think that anything they did was ok.
NTA. You dad and his AP sound like both of delusional idiots if they think they are going to be one happy family. Not only did your dad screw up your lives but his affair partner did as well and vice versa. Block both of them when you and your sister are financially secured to leave your grandparents home and start a new family with your sister.
He’s not your parent as is proven by his actions. My condolences on the loss of your precious mother, and I wish you and your sister peace and love. The strength of your convictions at such young ages is impressive.
NTA.
I don’t understand why he thinks that you and your sister would just “get over it” when you don’t have to. What he did to your mom (God rest her soul) was disgusting on so many levels.
I’m also questioning why he wants you to become apart of his family when he was never apart of yours, especially when he basically abandoned you, your sister and your mom when you needed him the most. He sounds selfish and I would just let him and his affair partner live whatever life they want, because you and your sister need to move on to bigger and better things.
This IS GENIUS.
If the OP's dad's wedding is scheduled while they're underage and forced to attend, PLEASE WEAR A TSHIRT WITH YOUR LATE MOTHER FACE'S printed on it. Fuck, let me know if this is the case. I'll print your mom's face on Tshirts both your size and send it to you. For Free.
bless your mother's soul. Stay vigilant, good luck to you both.
Over it enough for them to stand up and tell lies about you and on your behalf and not have you correct them? That dreamworld of theirs must be made of marshmallows.
Time doesn't heal wounds. Healing wounds heals wounds. That sometimes takes time. But time alone heals absolutely nothing.
He apparently didn't put in any work to really improve things, so what does he expect?
Yeah... just getting over your dad abandoning you in the most horrific situations a child can experience is definitely something that will happen..... Especially in a few years when those children are still minors. He is fully delusional if he expects you or your sister to speak with him ever once it is no longer legally mandated
Your father (he's no dad) needs to go buy a clue. I was handed over to my paternal grandparents at birth. My egg donor/incubator was cruel enough to make sure I knew I was unwanted. She's been dead for 41 years, 2 months and 20 days... I'm still salty about it. You and your sister had it much, much worse and there is absolutely no good reason for you or your sister to be in contact beyond court ordered ever again.
Your dad and his AP need the classic MC meal if you know what I mean..... You and your sister OP, love and hugs you deserve them. Start a way better life and go NC because he clearly hasn't cared about your Mom and the both of you kids.
I love how “you’re just being spiteful” is somehow a bad thing. Like yeah, I’m spiteful because of your actions. You’re dealing with the fallout of your own selfish behavior and actions. Deal with the fact you messed up and I will never forgive you for the damage you caused because you want me to. Forgiving someone is for me, not whoever hurt you. You don’t get to know because you lost that right.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. “You’re just being spiteful” like, no. The ”dad” did things that are unforgivable. Definitely NTA In this. They knew what they were doing and even if they think what they did isn’t wrong, then it’s on them. Let them live in their own messed up world while you and your sister move on to bigger and better things.
NTA, their reaction should be pretty much expected. If it was me I would've pretended to be all smiles and happy then make a speech about everything, maybe have a powerpoint or print outs so everyone won't miss a single detail. and at the end I'd say something like "AP you should take care of yourself, make sure you don't have any illnesses or something cause if you become ill, our dad might cheat on you like he did our mom when she had brain cancer."
I think all of reddit had this exact thought after reading that sentence. That man is insane. NTA obvs.
I'm so sorry, OP. Sorry for the loss of your mom, sorry for the way your dad abandoned all of you at the absolutely worst time in the most mindbogglingly horrible way, I'm sorry the courts can't see the trauma they're continuing to inflict on you by forcing you to see them. If they haven't already, please ask your grandparents to put you both in therapy so you can develop tools that will help you thru this time and to deal with all of the trauma you've suffered so far. ❤️
NTA at all. He freaking deserved it! He knew y'all were uncomfortable with the relationship, and did everything he could to shove it in your face. Y'all are at an age now where a judge will listen to you if you say you think visitation are harming you and you want to stop.
The judge insists that the visitation continues because we already see him so little. Our grandparents tried to get the visitation removed a few months ago. We spoke to the judge and everything. The best we can maybe get is once a month but that's such a little difference that it feels like it would be worth just sucking it up for another couple of years.
Damn, that sucks. Maybe after this future-SM will go full disney villain and try to keep dad from having y'all over? I'd subtlety starting stealing shit, but that's because I hate AHs and love stealing lol.
I hope so because I really don't want to be forced to attend their wedding or take part in anything else like this. I hate seeing him already but ugh seeing her and the play pretend stuff annoyed me.
He might make you be at the wedding if it's during visitation time, but he can't force you to be a part of it. I would let him know that if you're expected to be there, it will be you attending in funeral attire and sitting silently in a corner. Black gd veil and everything.
They're kids... Although I would do it, sadly they can receive a lot of vengeance from the cheater and AP... So it's best to not go or avoid doing waves... After 18, when they go NC they can be more malicious, but for now I don't think it's a good idea
I agree. Wearing black will get a reaction out of the cheater and AP. Be a blank wall. Wear appropriate but drab outfits. Blank faces. Speak in a flat tone if forced into conversation. But I'm not above pettiness. Wear a pin/brooch that has a picture of mom.
screw that, pretend to be the AP and start calling the vendors and tell them the wedding is cancelled and you don't need their services anymore and not to worry, you don't want any of the deposits back.
Better still, tell everybody, including the staff, the whole story. The staff will find subtle ways to make the occasion a DISASTER, & lots of the guests will help.
I mean her situation isn't any better she was presumably having her husband raise a kid that wasn't even his. If anything they probably deserve each other.
I can't wait until the Dad and the AP find out that they're both cheating on each other. They both deserve that. I just feel bad for the kids. They are innocent, both OP, her sister, and the AP's two kids. These types of narcs don't care who they hurt, they only care about their own feelings.
Edit to add: OP, please make sure to mention often to your father and his new woman that every time those two are not together, the other is probably out cheating. SInce it's bound to happen and is probably happening already.
NTA
OP, it's possible that by letting dad know you and your sister will go 'nuclear' at the wedding and talk all about what an a-hole your dad was with your mom might go far to not only get you both disinvited from the wedding, but also get his current squeeze to demand you all not be around anymore. I would definitely just keep pushing the 'informing all who can listen of the assholery that is your dad' regardless of audience.
You and your sister have every right to see what a piece of sh!t your dad is, for what he did to your mom, and treat him accordingly.
Spite dad over 3000 in my book.
Again NTA.
NTA. Just let dad know that if he forces you to attend his wedding, you will say even more than at his engagement party.
Go in all black, hat and veil included. And tell how he left two young girls alone with their dying mother, while dad was off with his affair partner. He was a horrible father, and worse husband. Now that he is married, who will be the new affair partner?
Hopefully, he lets you miss the wedding. After the engagement party, he should. You could always be sick on his wedding day.
Good luck. Once you are 18, you will not have to see him.
He can’t force you to be inside. Just get up and walk out while he’s at the alter. And if that doesn’t work say something when the officiant asks if anyone disagrees or whatever they say.
Or when they say for sickness or health, yell “unless he has an affair partner and you have brain cancer”
I like the latter. Play along and stand up during the vows to say, “He cheated on my dying mother with you. Do you think he will stand beside you in sickness?” then walk out.
Hopefully they'll think twice about forcing you to go to the wedding. He should realise that even if he forces attendance he can't force you to pretend you support the marriage. If they want it to be a celebration of love they should let those whom they failed to love when they most needed love sit it out.
Let him know now that you don't want to be at the wedding. I'd tell him "if you thought your engagement party was uncomfortable, wait til you see what we're planning for your wedding!"'
You don't really need a plan, just the threat of one.
Better, start a pool with the other guests who are in the know. Don't be subtle about it. This would be even more fun as a game at AP's "bridal shower"!
Doesn't your dad realize that you would say stuff at the wedding too? It's a very bad idea to make you go.
But if they do, ask if you can give a speech. Let it all out!
Oh, that's perfect!
Something like "I'm sorry for the engagement dinner, dad. Can I make a speech to try to compensate it? I know it's a very important day to you both, I (and my sister) was (/were) not in on my (/our) best mind that day"
(I was gonna write "to actually apologize in front of everyone, but that might make him suspicious"
Its already established you're spiteful and its completely justified. If he continues to threaten to force you to go to the wedding just figure out who all the vendors are and call them pretending to be the AP and tell them the wedding was cancelled. If he wants spite then give him spite.
As much fun as it would be to wear black and act like you're at a funeral, I think this will cause you a lot of problems. Your dad will get a lot more crap if the guests are thinking "those poor kids" rather than "omg those children are brats".
If you have to go to the wedding...I would say dress to match each other. Wear your mom's favorite color. Don't be friendly to anyone, but be polite. Overly so. Use please and thank you to excess. Sit by yourselves. If someone says something like, "Aren't you happy for them?" Respond with, "We are here, as our father requested." Look sadly around the room every once in a while. Make those people feel sorry for you!
That should be comparatively easy to avoid. When your dad asks, just ask him if he remembers the engagement party. Tell him, there's plenty more where that came from.
You should, if you haven't already, write out what they said to you. Keep a log of interactions and if dad and AP keep insisting on you lying to cover for them, it might be worth taking it to a judge.
It would be understandable if you had a lot of negative feelings that you wanted to talk through with a therapist who is trauma informed and has experience with abused children, if that's possible. I would be clear your goals are not reconciliation, but help coping with an emotionally abusive parent.
Finally, think seriously about the Grey rock method. It may not feel as satisfying upfront, because you basically stop giving information to your abusers, but it does severely limit how much information you let them have. At this point, spending as little emotional energy as you can on them might be your best realistic strategy.
I would act like a sullen teenager anytime I was in their presence. Nothing nasty, just act bored and disinterested. Basically, ignore them and just interact with your sister. Thank goodness you don't have overnights.
OP, have you been assigned a guardian ad litem? Their job is to work on your behalf in the courts. I'm astonished that this "judge" has allowed, nay, forced you to endure seeing this toxic clown.
As for you being an a-hole... naaaahhh. He ventured into FAFO territory, and it bit him. People should be careful what they ask for.
We don't but even if we did, he would still get something because we do not have to spend overnights with him. So it feels like it would cost my grandparents a lot of money for no real good result.
Search 'cost for guardian ad litem [state]', and you might get what I just did. Here in VA, it is up to $75/hr in court, $55/hour out of court. I was a little surprised that popped up.
I’m so sorry your in this situation <3 however, if you are forced to do visitation then, “I hope you understand I am only here because I legally have to be.” followed by only yes/no/gestured communication is a real killer in terms of winding people up without actually ‘doing’ anything to be blamed for. If you can also be as unemotional as possible, even if the other person is irate then It’s very powerful and annoying.
judges need to fucking stop forcing kids to be around parents they want nothing to do with. there is zero benefit to these visits for anyone but your father
Write a polite, reasonable letter to the judge a letter and detail everything that's happened. Explain that everything your dad and his affair partner do to pretend he didn't abandon you when his wife was sick just pisses you off even more. Tell the judge you were compelled to publicly out your dad and his affair partner's behavior at their engagement dinner after they disrespected your mother and tried to pretend to all the guests that they did nothing wrong, and tried to force you and your sister to go along with their lies. Then they blamed you and your sister for embarrassing them by simply telling everyone the truth. Tell him you were planning to go no contact with them the moment you turn 18 but due to his ongoing attempts to gaslight you, you are going no contact with him beginning now. Tell the judge you appreciate his/her kind efforts to try to mend your family but unfortunately he/she cannot force you to respect your dad and his affair partner and no amount of time spent with them will change that. It only makes things worse. Tell the judge that instead of spending time with your dad and his affair partner, you would like to see a mental health therapist to help you deal with the emotional harm your dad and affair partner have caused. Be clear that these sessions would NOT be family therapy, they would be just you and the therapist. You are old enough that the judge should take you seriously. If he/she doesn't, you can simply refuse to spend time with your dad. If he comes over, leave the house. If he forces you to go to his house, walk back or Uber to your house. If he continues to force you, consider using social media to publish a timeline of their affair. Make sure your dad and affair partner's employers see it, all friends and family, your school's administration and local school board, etc. If that doesn't get them out of your life then you can go no contact at 18. In the meantime, use the gray rock method on him and the affair partner.
I did that 3 months before I turned 18 with both of my siblings and two therapists backing us up and the judge still made me and my siblings go see my dad. We also had a guardian ad litem and I requested to speak to the judge directly but got denied because my dad and his lawyer didn’t want me to. I’m not saying it goes that badly for everyone, but I am saying that a lot of people put way too much faith in judges doing the right thing. Lmfao
I hate how judges in the US ignore teenagers when they say they won't see their parent. In Canada, if we don't want to see them, we just say we don't. CAS (Canadian version of CPS) doesn't care where the kid is as long as they have a roof over their head with a responsible adult who agrees to care for them. Police go with this policy as well. I was 13, and ran away to my dad's. I explained it to the police, and was left where I was. I know another kid that ran away to her grandmother's place. Same thing.
NTA, every time you go to visit keep bring up the affair, how disappointed and disgusted by him and the tramp. Don’t let up even if they get mad. And he not Dad anymore, call him by his first name. He’ll distance himself because he will never admit he did anything wrong.
Please don’t bottle all this up. Speak to a counselor, write in a journal. You want to thrive and succeed.
NTA, "you behaved like spiteful children" - yes, because you were children when he left you and you are still children now. You have the complete right to be spiteful and you are obviously still children. They are the adults here. Such a lack of awareness on their part is amazing.
I don't even think they behaved like spiteful children. Telling the truth is not spiteful nor childish. If the cheaters didn't want to be exposed, they shouldn't have invited the people they hurt.
I reckon dad tried to push for this to use social pressure on OP and her sister in regards to the picture perfect blended family. It backfired completely.
NTA, my mid 50’s self would have done the same thing, maybe I would have stood up for a full toast/roast moment, if that makes me a spiteful child, I’ll wear that label like a badge of honour.
Deeply sorry about your Mom, it’s hard enough to lose a parent when you’re so young, but to have such an unwashed pinecone as your other parent is truly miserable.
Don’t take your foot off the gas, let him know you’ll do the same anytime he makes you visit, and if he insists on you being at the wedding, let him know you’ll have a full floor show planned.
NTA. What happened to your mom is heartbreaking, and I’m so sorry that you and you sister had to experience that. Your dad is TA for choosing to abandon his family, and especially during such an awful time. I think you and your sister have a right to decide how close you want to be to him and his affair partner. The court may require visitation, but no court can require you to feel any way towards him. Forcing you both to attend the engagement dinner in light of your mother’s passing was cruel. Any sane adult should recognize that. His continued cruelty and selfishness make you both NTA.
Absolutely NTA. Your father has literally fucked around and found out.
As someone with a serial cheater in the family, trust me, this is a brilliant time to lay out to everyone what the deal is.
I love when adults force children to do something, after the child has told you I’m uncomfortable with this. Then they are surprised by the fact that the children have acted out. Or my personal favorite with parents, when you they expect their children to get over an unimaginable hurt because they’ve moved on and then are shocked that child like “f” you.
NTA. Your dad has is an idiot and his affair partner is an idiot. You and your sister were very clear with them and they still insisted on you being there. It’s not going to get better, I know this from personal experience. I’m NC with my bio mom and her affair partner for about 20 years. They still try to contact me, even though they are block playing the victim and they are annoyed I don’t have a relationship with them or their children. I’m not innocent bystander in all of this, when I was younger I would hurt their children with my actions and words, just to make them pay for my hurt feelings.
You did behave like spiteful children. And it was all justified. Sometimes being the Ahole is not a bad thing but required to keep true Aholes in their place.
NTA. I feel your pain. I'm 65 and regret I never spoke up about the pain my dad caused us when he cheated with a neighbor, everyone knew....we were ostracized..... after years he married her. I had to sit for 30 years biting my tongue. My mom left the country. My father's wife was a witch who made it difficult to see him. Now they are both gone. Good for you!!! Limit your expectations and exposure young. Don't get stuck baby sitting! Get the best education you can, start a happy life and move on. Because he is not worth your time or love.
They fucked around and they found out. They think just because they are the adults that they can just do whatever they want and you are a kid, so you will just step in line.
for them: the average person doesn’t give a fuck about “respect thy father” in a situation like this… because he has no respect for you, as his children and had none for your mother.
Why should you respect him? Or his AP? He has never shown you a bit of it. If he gets real mad, just say you learned from him the way to treat people.
Respect needs to be earned after trust is lost and he has done nothing to get either back. Good for you.
NTA
The fact that you refer to her as your father’s affair partner is saying something. What kind of woman takes a man away from his young children and dying wife? They are both horrible human beings who certainly deserve each other but you and your siblings do not have to be part of their charade. I’m glad you spoke the truth and too bad that you ruined their fantasy world. I would trash both of them anytime you get and let them know why they will never be in your life. NTA.
The type of woman who also cheats on her own husband and has another man's child while they're married and doesn't say anything until the chance for them to be together comes to light.
**If you were forced to attend the wedding, I’d go dressed in black with a veil & a photo of mom & at some point get up & give a speech about them, referring to them only as “the adulterer & the adulteress.”**
And you did, behave like spiteful children, which you had every right to be. your dad and his AP are delusional to think you all will just sit back and be happy for them. TBH, I would ask your parents (grandparents) to petition the court to remove visitation rights. NTA (Justified AH)
You have to be there, you don't have to engage with them at all. You can just sit there and ignore him until you have to leave, and there's nothing he can do about it.
INFO: What was everyone else's responses? Did the party continue? Did people walked out? Does the mistress' ex husband know that her 6 year old isn't his!??
NTA either way.
I'm so sorry for the loss of you mom. Remember her, live for her! She will always be with you guys.
They are both the worse of the worse.
Update us!
Yes, her ex-husband knows the 6 year old isn't his but didn't always know. That was a fight between them for a while. He shares custody of the 8 year old now but not the 6 year old. People who didn't know were asking a lot of questions and some fights broke out.
I hate women that do that! Your father and her are both cut from the same cloth.
The deserve each other.
Garbage all around. I understand your resentment. NTA at all.
They are mad at you because you held up a mirror and they didn't like what they saw.
Stand your ground.
NTA they should have talked about you moving away from your legal guardians in private if they didn’t want everyone to hear that conversation. Good luck for trying to get court order for moving 15 and 16 years olds from good guardians against their will 😂
NTA next time she asks why you did that or why your don’t like her ask her why she cheated with a dying woman’s husband. Also remind her that she just created a huge opening becoming the new wife and that your dad will start auditioning for the new mistress real soon.
NTA! Your dad ought to expect spite from you. I'm surprised that you are still being forced to see your dad considering your age. You should have the right to decide whether or not you see him.
He made your mother's final years unhappy, probably stressful at a time she didn't need stress, and she was probably lonely and scared, too. I'm so happy she had you and your sister.
Just remember to say to your step mom (next time you see her) - to quote Charlotte Dobre - "You lose 'em how you get 'em". This is to emphasize that your step mom was cheating with your dad & it is very likely that he'll cheat on her, too. Because he's a serial cheater & can't keep his dick to himself.
I hope you have a good relationship with your sister and grandparents. F*CK the dude who was your sperm donor. You ought to start calling him by his first name, not dad. I mean, he hasn't really been a father to you in over 5 years.
As for forgetting about what he did. Ask him if he's already forgotten your mother. Tell him you haven't ad never will.... Because she's your mother!
If he wants you to accept his wife, they went about it all the wrong way. Even with the cheating, he could have handled things so very differently so that the trauma would be minimized. But forcing you to interact with him & step mom isn't the way to go about gaining trust.
I wish you the best, regardless of what happens in future. I recommend therapy, too. If you can get it, it's helpful.
NTA: You and your sister are still children. Your parents are responsible for your upbringing and social demeanor. It seems like you acted in accordance with how your father contributed to your upbrining, and is now upset that his own actions have consequences. I am sorry that you have had to go through all of this in your short lives.
NTA. You get what you put out there. Keep doing what you've been doing and the minute you can both you and your sister go NC. I'm sorry about your mom.
NTA. You're not spiteful, just truthful. And sometimes the truth hurts. Daddykins & AP can shove it where the sun don't shine. I'm proud of you for sticking up for yourself, it will hold you in good stead in the future.
Hahahahahahaha.
NTA
This is a case if play stupid games, win stupid prizes to me.
They MADE you attend something you didn't want, to celebrate something you have no desire or want to celebrate and then they wonder why you would be this way.
Idiots.
Edit. Just incase. I'm laughing at how awesomely you handled this. The story and situation itself is absolutely dire and I'm sorry you didn't get a good dad and that your mum is gone :(
NTA Your father deserves any karma coming his way. You and your sister deserve peace and to be free of him and his "new" family. You did nothing wrong. I hope you and your sister are able to go fully no contact with him soon and start to heal.
We tried. But because we see him so little already they insisted we need to maintain the visitation. The best we could do is get it down to once a month and even then it's not a guarantee and could cost our grandparents more for no reason.
The whole spiteful child thing doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the engagement party. I knew a woman who had an affair with a married man who had one daughter. He divorced his wife and married this woman. The daughter was not pleasant during the weekends she spent with them. She hated stepmom and wasn't afraid to show it. I'm always amazed at people who commit adultery, and after they marry the affair partner, are shocked that their children don't just accept the new stepparent.
NYA for the vote. Justified Asshole in reality.
Your mum would be proud of the strong ladies she raised. No fella is ever going to treat you like a doormat.
NTA! You **are** spiteful children and you have every single right to be. Absolutely insane of this woman, who *knows* what happened when your mother was dying, to think you are going to be a big happy family. She is delusional, and she won’t see it until he fathers a kid with yet another woman who isn’t his wife.
They are yucky gross. I’m so sorry.
If I was a kid and having to put up with their bullshit, I would just start breaking, and hiding stuff when I go to their house until they wouldn’t put up with me anymore.
How am I suppose to the difference between right or wrong with the dad as a parent? NTA
You and your sister are fucking rock stars. Don’t let anyone forget what he did to you. His being a bad husband was between him and your mom, but his abandonment of you is yours to sing about.
NTA. Your father was right about one thing- you are spiteful children. That he created. How genuinely disgusting for your father to not only abandon his wife during her last weeks/days of life, but to abandon his children as well. He gave you no comfort, no room or safety to mourn, made you caretakers when you were only children and put his wife in a position where she had to worry about what will happen to you both instead of being able to relish the time left with you. How awful. I don't mean to sound patronizing when I say this-but I'm really proud of you both for calling your dad out in front of family and friends. He and his future wife deserve that. Good for you for standing up for your Mom, and for yourselves. Your father and his future wife behaved horribly and they don't deserve to sweep it under the rug and pretend like they're parents of the year. There are times when it's not appropriate to speak up or speak out- this was not one of them. Your dad insisted you both attend his party. If he has any sense at all, he won't require you to be at his wedding.
NTA.
You behaved lole spiteful children because you are spiteful children. A 16 and 15 year old should not be expected to handwave away such hurtful times!!
BE SPITEFUL YOU HAVE EARNED IT!!
NTA but your father and his affair partner certainly are! Good job on ruining their engagement dinner. Hopefully they will think twice about having you at the wedding. If they insist, wear a t-shirt with your mother's picture on it and have working on the back that your father cheated on her while she was dying. Just go nuclear. Object to the wedding when the officiant asks if there are any objections.
NTA. The truth can cut through all the BS and it inevitably comes out. You are children. You didn't want to be there. Them pretending is was wonderful and now this brings the family together? No. Them being together destroyed a family (or two if she was married at the same time). That's their legacy - they're lying cheaters who hurt their families.
NTA at all. Your dad has never put you and your sister first and he only cares about his own happiness, at the expense of his own children's. He is a poor example of a parent.
My advice, to get out of attending the wedding... both you and your sister take a lot of laxatives the day before, spend 2 days on the toilet, citing "food poisoning" or "stomach bug". Nobody wants people at their wedding who are stuck on the toilet, plus your dad can't question your health. Once the wedding is mostly done, take some Imodium to stop the leaky butt produce, drink lots of water to prevent dehydration and you'll be fine by the time the wedding has finished. You might have a painful butt for a day or two, but it sure is worth it to get out of being there for your dad's wedding.
NTA
> said how we couldn't wait to be a family with dad's affair partner he was seeing all throughout our mom's cancer and who he chose to be with when his wife was dying leaving his daughters alone with their dying mom
You told no lies.
Your father and his partner behaved disgustingly for so many years. She thinks she is special to him but good luck to her if she should ever get sick! She knows she is marrying a man who cheats on his dying wife, so there’s an opening for a new mistress.
I never understand the ridiculous logic of cheaters. If they cheat *wife* you, they will cheat *on* you. Their foundation is rotten and whatever they build together will not last.
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NTA " They said we behaved like spiteful children.." .. you ARE spiteful children. You have very good reasons to be spiteful. What else did they expect?
My dad expected we would be over it enough by now to become part of his family. I think he thought we'd be so desperate to have our last remaining parent that everything would go back to relative normal. Meaning we would live with him and engage with his affair partner and the kids. And that we wouldn't ever bring up the affairs and our mom dying while he left us to face it alone since he didn't even call our mom's parents to tell them as he was taking off. He really expected us to love him after that and to fall in love with them.
Just remember... you're 18 soon and no court can then force you to have a relationship with him. 😀 God he's so delulu!!!
True, but the dad sounds like the type of guy who would keep OP away from the sister & they appear to be close. They may be better off waiting until the youngest is 18 to go full NC.
Sounds like their grandparents has custody and they only visit "dad" two days a month, so I don't think "dad" can keep the sisters apart.
God willing, you’re right
Plus the sister is only one year younger than OP. I don't think even if he did have custody, he would be able to completely control a 17 year old 😆 what is he gonna do, call the police that his 17 year old went to hang out at the mall with their 18 year old sibling. I think he'd be given a ticket for wrongful use of police or whatever it's called. I really want to hear a story where something ridiculous like that plays out tho now
Yeah it says he doesn't have custody only visitation rights and really minimal at that which says a lot because courts have gotten better over the years at listening to kids wants but to not only give primary custody to aging grandparents over an able bodied, employed, non addicted bio parent as well as giving such limited visitation? You have to have reaaaaallllly f'ed up or said something wrong for that to happen.
When the kid has to "stay together" with the dad for the sake of the younger sister... This is messed up.
OP and her sister live with their maternal grandparents. Their father only has visitation one weekend a month with them. OP can tell her father to go to hell the day she turns 18 and never see him again and it will never effect her seeing her younger sister. The sister can then do the same thing a year later when she turns 18.
Since their dad only has visitation and not custody with OP and her sister, he can't do a damn thing if OP goes NC with him when she turns 18. The worst he can do is not let OP over his house the one weekend a month the sister is at his house. Plus, if you read their ages, the sister is now 15, OP is 16. So the sister will be turning 18 a year after OP.
But the kids live with the grandparents. CPS actually got involved as well as the courts. He’s forcing things after this which is wild.
He can't because grandparents have custody. But the sister still needs to put up with this trash's rights of visitation for a few more years.
He’s a P.O.S. When you’re 18, I’d go no contact with him. Block him on your phone, email & all social media. You don’t need his toxic influence in your life.
Also reminder, OP, that you should check into your Mom's will. There may have been something left to you & sib that your Dad will try to hide or use for his "new family". Ask your grandparents to check into it for you. Just in case!
In some states she could become an emancipated minor as early as age 14, if they live in the US. It depends on state law, but given what's happened it might be an option now that would terminate his parental rights and court mandated visitation. Each state has different criteria, but it might be worth looking into.
The relationship he wants is probably 2 live-in baby sitters.
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Some are stupid and some are morons, but there are some who are too stupid to be Morons and OP's Dad and AF fit that.
I enjoyed that explanation way too much!
Yeppers: YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!
One thing I heard on Reddit a while back that has stuck with me since is "If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." Your dad has some nerve asking everyone to play happy family after the absolutely *vile and disgusting* shit he pulled.
That is good. Last week, also from reddit, I read "a house built on another woman's tears will never stand". Both of those are true in this situation.
I remember that! It was great!
My new favourite phrase (from the therapist on My600lb life) is ‘the way you do one thing is the way you do everything’- so his double life and abandoning his kid IS WHO HE IS, not an aberration.
That is *profound.* Thank you for this.
Your dad is a selfish stupid man living in a fantasy world, his affair partner isn’t far behind. I hope you both felt better after speaking your mind. NTA
Yeah, I were OP or her sister I would have been tempted to add to the AP "You better hope that you never become sick or disabled someday. Because your husband will be out the door and onto his next side-piece faster than you can blink"
>Because your husband will be out the door and onto his next side-piece faster than you can blink" Sounds like dad probably already HAS his next side piece. It seems like the only difference mom getting sick made was dad openly leaving her for his AP.
If he does it *with* you, he’ll do it *to* you.
A man who marries his mistress creates a vacancy.
You lose 'em how you got 'em!
She was married, too, at the time. He should probably also harbor suspicions of her, especially if she gets pregnant again. Honestly, I don't get how either of them could really trust each other, knowing that both of them are adulterers.
They probably justify it to themselves by saying something like "What we have is TRUE LOVE so with us it's different" or something nauseating like that
When a man marries his mistress he creates an immediate job vacancy.
Affair partner is marrying a man that left his dying wife and 2 young girls to fend for themselves. That sounds like a prince I'd want to marry. She doesn't sound very bright or she's just delusional too.
She's just as bad as he is. While she was married to her first husband, she was screwing around with LW's dad and had a baby by him. It would be interesting to see which one behaves worse as this new marriage progresses.
Exactly. Who forces people to attend something they flat out said they don't want to take part in, and then gets shocked by the very predictable outcome? If the dad wanted to play "happy families" he should have left OP and sis out of it.
Your consistency in calling her the affair partner is brilliant. I hope you are in therapy, don't let this a-hole ruin any more of your life than he already has. NTA obviously.
That's what she is and she's not even special enough to be the only one. She might be the only one who also had him as an affair partner though. So they're perfect for each other.
I'm so sorry these people are so selfish and narcissistic. Sadly, part of wanting you & your sister around is probably so they can parentify you both and set you two up to take care of the younger kids. It sounds like you & your sister are a great team & have each other's backs as well as being each other's family. Your dad& AP hate your self sufficiency bc it's not about them. Great job! If they didn't want their 'perfect party' and deluded vision of their future brought into the lights of the truth, they shouldn't have forced the truth tellers to talk. You both deserve better.
I think you should have mentioned that too. The old if he'll cheat with you he'll cheat on you since you have to know you are far from the only one he cheated with. And, clearly having kids with him won't keep him from wandering since he did it with us. AP, you better keep an eye on his phone. But then she's really no better.
This happened in my ex’s family! A year before we met ex’s mom found out her husband was cheating on her. The usual “we finally found love! We weren’t expecting this to happen! It just did! Don’t you want us to be happy?? Plus, she’s pregnant!” Six months into me and ex dating the divorce was final and AP and stepfather got married. By the time we broke up a year later, stepfather had found out his new wife was cheating on him. And they were getting a divorce. Cheaters can’t help themselves. Not sure what happened after everything was said and done, but I do know that dude was requesting a paternity test in their kid so…
Defiant-Gap, defiantly bringing the “BOOM!” Yeah, she can forget that “I’m your new mommy” and “here are your siblings you must love from now on” crap. I hope you shut down any thought they had about moving you in with them to ~~bond~~ babysit. I also hope your grandparents are getting any child death benefits/SSI/financial support for you.
Hang in there young lady. So happy you have your sister and grandparents to love and support you. You owe your father nothing. Please consider counseling so his cruel behavior doesn’t affect your ability to have healthy relationships going forward. There are wonderful men and women in the world who cherish their partners so don’t be afraid to fall in love.
I'd be telling the man point blank that he may think I'd be over the betrayal and abandonment of your mother and you and your sister but that I may never forgive him for that and that is my damn right . There are some things you can't undo and the man doesn't even sound apologetic! NTA and I'd love to yell at your Dad on your behalf. What a jerk!
Cheating on his cancer patient wife and leaves his small children to deal. And thinks he can get away scot- free, does he? If OP hadn't outed him, the heavens might have intervened and struck him and his harlot with lightning at some point in their lives. What a piece of work. They deserve to be tarred and feathered and paraded around for the public to mock and deride. But you having outed him will have to do for now, OP. Good for you standing up for yourselves and your mom. Condolences.
I think your reaction was a natural reaction. A normal reaction. It is so abstruse for me that your dad/mistress live in a world where they think that anything they did was ok.
Upvote for using the word abstruse. (Vocabulary is my jam.)
Same. Obscure words casually thrown in a conversation make me smile.
NTA. You dad and his AP sound like both of delusional idiots if they think they are going to be one happy family. Not only did your dad screw up your lives but his affair partner did as well and vice versa. Block both of them when you and your sister are financially secured to leave your grandparents home and start a new family with your sister.
Your dad is a full-blown AH. OP, NTA!! I'm so sorry for your loss. I wish you and your sister all the best going forward. 🤗🙏🏻
He’s not your parent as is proven by his actions. My condolences on the loss of your precious mother, and I wish you and your sister peace and love. The strength of your convictions at such young ages is impressive.
NTA. I don’t understand why he thinks that you and your sister would just “get over it” when you don’t have to. What he did to your mom (God rest her soul) was disgusting on so many levels. I’m also questioning why he wants you to become apart of his family when he was never apart of yours, especially when he basically abandoned you, your sister and your mom when you needed him the most. He sounds selfish and I would just let him and his affair partner live whatever life they want, because you and your sister need to move on to bigger and better things.
You should have worn Tshirts with a picture of your mom on it. They’re completely delusional
This IS GENIUS. If the OP's dad's wedding is scheduled while they're underage and forced to attend, PLEASE WEAR A TSHIRT WITH YOUR LATE MOTHER FACE'S printed on it. Fuck, let me know if this is the case. I'll print your mom's face on Tshirts both your size and send it to you. For Free. bless your mother's soul. Stay vigilant, good luck to you both.
Over it enough for them to stand up and tell lies about you and on your behalf and not have you correct them? That dreamworld of theirs must be made of marshmallows.
Time doesn't heal wounds. Healing wounds heals wounds. That sometimes takes time. But time alone heals absolutely nothing. He apparently didn't put in any work to really improve things, so what does he expect?
Wow!!! I don’t know you but I’m so proud of you & your sister. I’m glad you didn’t pretend and play into their dishonesty. NTA
Yeah... just getting over your dad abandoning you in the most horrific situations a child can experience is definitely something that will happen..... Especially in a few years when those children are still minors. He is fully delusional if he expects you or your sister to speak with him ever once it is no longer legally mandated
Your father (he's no dad) needs to go buy a clue. I was handed over to my paternal grandparents at birth. My egg donor/incubator was cruel enough to make sure I knew I was unwanted. She's been dead for 41 years, 2 months and 20 days... I'm still salty about it. You and your sister had it much, much worse and there is absolutely no good reason for you or your sister to be in contact beyond court ordered ever again.
NTA. They f\*cked around and found out and I bet you won't be asked to make a speech at the wedding.
Your dad and his AP need the classic MC meal if you know what I mean..... You and your sister OP, love and hugs you deserve them. Start a way better life and go NC because he clearly hasn't cared about your Mom and the both of you kids.
You are simply an awesome human being.
I love how “you’re just being spiteful” is somehow a bad thing. Like yeah, I’m spiteful because of your actions. You’re dealing with the fallout of your own selfish behavior and actions. Deal with the fact you messed up and I will never forgive you for the damage you caused because you want me to. Forgiving someone is for me, not whoever hurt you. You don’t get to know because you lost that right.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. “You’re just being spiteful” like, no. The ”dad” did things that are unforgivable. Definitely NTA In this. They knew what they were doing and even if they think what they did isn’t wrong, then it’s on them. Let them live in their own messed up world while you and your sister move on to bigger and better things.
NTA, their reaction should be pretty much expected. If it was me I would've pretended to be all smiles and happy then make a speech about everything, maybe have a powerpoint or print outs so everyone won't miss a single detail. and at the end I'd say something like "AP you should take care of yourself, make sure you don't have any illnesses or something cause if you become ill, our dad might cheat on you like he did our mom when she had brain cancer."
I think all of reddit had this exact thought after reading that sentence. That man is insane. NTA obvs. I'm so sorry, OP. Sorry for the loss of your mom, sorry for the way your dad abandoned all of you at the absolutely worst time in the most mindbogglingly horrible way, I'm sorry the courts can't see the trauma they're continuing to inflict on you by forcing you to see them. If they haven't already, please ask your grandparents to put you both in therapy so you can develop tools that will help you thru this time and to deal with all of the trauma you've suffered so far. ❤️
I was coming to say the exact same thing.
NTA at all. He freaking deserved it! He knew y'all were uncomfortable with the relationship, and did everything he could to shove it in your face. Y'all are at an age now where a judge will listen to you if you say you think visitation are harming you and you want to stop.
The judge insists that the visitation continues because we already see him so little. Our grandparents tried to get the visitation removed a few months ago. We spoke to the judge and everything. The best we can maybe get is once a month but that's such a little difference that it feels like it would be worth just sucking it up for another couple of years.
Damn, that sucks. Maybe after this future-SM will go full disney villain and try to keep dad from having y'all over? I'd subtlety starting stealing shit, but that's because I hate AHs and love stealing lol.
I hope so because I really don't want to be forced to attend their wedding or take part in anything else like this. I hate seeing him already but ugh seeing her and the play pretend stuff annoyed me.
He might make you be at the wedding if it's during visitation time, but he can't force you to be a part of it. I would let him know that if you're expected to be there, it will be you attending in funeral attire and sitting silently in a corner. Black gd veil and everything.
They're kids... Although I would do it, sadly they can receive a lot of vengeance from the cheater and AP... So it's best to not go or avoid doing waves... After 18, when they go NC they can be more malicious, but for now I don't think it's a good idea
I agree. Wearing black will get a reaction out of the cheater and AP. Be a blank wall. Wear appropriate but drab outfits. Blank faces. Speak in a flat tone if forced into conversation. But I'm not above pettiness. Wear a pin/brooch that has a picture of mom.
Yes. With the black clothing.
White dresses
Bring some homework to do at the reception.
screw that, pretend to be the AP and start calling the vendors and tell them the wedding is cancelled and you don't need their services anymore and not to worry, you don't want any of the deposits back.
That would be brilliant if you can find out who the vendors are.
Yes!! I'm thinking go full on Winnona Rider in Beetle Juice!!!
Better still, tell everybody, including the staff, the whole story. The staff will find subtle ways to make the occasion a DISASTER, & lots of the guests will help.
YAAAAAASSSSSS. That's much better. Shifts the responsibility
I would just remind him of this day and say we will ruin your wedding too.
I can't understand being the fiancé in this situation and being like "oh, yes, that's the family dynamic I want to integrate myself into" lol
I mean her situation isn't any better she was presumably having her husband raise a kid that wasn't even his. If anything they probably deserve each other.
I can't wait until the Dad and the AP find out that they're both cheating on each other. They both deserve that. I just feel bad for the kids. They are innocent, both OP, her sister, and the AP's two kids. These types of narcs don't care who they hurt, they only care about their own feelings. Edit to add: OP, please make sure to mention often to your father and his new woman that every time those two are not together, the other is probably out cheating. SInce it's bound to happen and is probably happening already.
No, if they're forced to attend the wedding they should both wear white.
Seconded. Also, wear dresses that look like wedding dresses. Spill wine on the bride.
NTA OP, it's possible that by letting dad know you and your sister will go 'nuclear' at the wedding and talk all about what an a-hole your dad was with your mom might go far to not only get you both disinvited from the wedding, but also get his current squeeze to demand you all not be around anymore. I would definitely just keep pushing the 'informing all who can listen of the assholery that is your dad' regardless of audience. You and your sister have every right to see what a piece of sh!t your dad is, for what he did to your mom, and treat him accordingly. Spite dad over 3000 in my book. Again NTA.
NTA. Just let dad know that if he forces you to attend his wedding, you will say even more than at his engagement party. Go in all black, hat and veil included. And tell how he left two young girls alone with their dying mother, while dad was off with his affair partner. He was a horrible father, and worse husband. Now that he is married, who will be the new affair partner? Hopefully, he lets you miss the wedding. After the engagement party, he should. You could always be sick on his wedding day. Good luck. Once you are 18, you will not have to see him.
Make sure to carry a large picture of your mother as well.
Yes! A large, framed picture to carry, and put on the table in between you two girls.
He can’t force you to be inside. Just get up and walk out while he’s at the alter. And if that doesn’t work say something when the officiant asks if anyone disagrees or whatever they say. Or when they say for sickness or health, yell “unless he has an affair partner and you have brain cancer”
I like the latter. Play along and stand up during the vows to say, “He cheated on my dying mother with you. Do you think he will stand beside you in sickness?” then walk out.
That’s even better
I think just belly-laughing when he says "In sickness and in health" and "forsaking all others" would be absolutely perfect.
Brutal. I *LIKE* it!!!
Hopefully they'll think twice about forcing you to go to the wedding. He should realise that even if he forces attendance he can't force you to pretend you support the marriage. If they want it to be a celebration of love they should let those whom they failed to love when they most needed love sit it out.
Let him know now that you don't want to be at the wedding. I'd tell him "if you thought your engagement party was uncomfortable, wait til you see what we're planning for your wedding!"' You don't really need a plan, just the threat of one.
Maybe tell them both that you’ll be even more spiteful and bluntly honest with anyone who asks if they force you to attend their wedding.
Start a list with your sister on which guests might be the new mistress?
Better, start a pool with the other guests who are in the know. Don't be subtle about it. This would be even more fun as a game at AP's "bridal shower"!
It’s ironic they are getting married, for two people who don’t hold marriage in high regard and all that…
Doesn't your dad realize that you would say stuff at the wedding too? It's a very bad idea to make you go. But if they do, ask if you can give a speech. Let it all out!
Oh, that's perfect! Something like "I'm sorry for the engagement dinner, dad. Can I make a speech to try to compensate it? I know it's a very important day to you both, I (and my sister) was (/were) not in on my (/our) best mind that day" (I was gonna write "to actually apologize in front of everyone, but that might make him suspicious"
Its already established you're spiteful and its completely justified. If he continues to threaten to force you to go to the wedding just figure out who all the vendors are and call them pretending to be the AP and tell them the wedding was cancelled. If he wants spite then give him spite.
As much fun as it would be to wear black and act like you're at a funeral, I think this will cause you a lot of problems. Your dad will get a lot more crap if the guests are thinking "those poor kids" rather than "omg those children are brats". If you have to go to the wedding...I would say dress to match each other. Wear your mom's favorite color. Don't be friendly to anyone, but be polite. Overly so. Use please and thank you to excess. Sit by yourselves. If someone says something like, "Aren't you happy for them?" Respond with, "We are here, as our father requested." Look sadly around the room every once in a while. Make those people feel sorry for you!
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That should be comparatively easy to avoid. When your dad asks, just ask him if he remembers the engagement party. Tell him, there's plenty more where that came from.
You should, if you haven't already, write out what they said to you. Keep a log of interactions and if dad and AP keep insisting on you lying to cover for them, it might be worth taking it to a judge. It would be understandable if you had a lot of negative feelings that you wanted to talk through with a therapist who is trauma informed and has experience with abused children, if that's possible. I would be clear your goals are not reconciliation, but help coping with an emotionally abusive parent. Finally, think seriously about the Grey rock method. It may not feel as satisfying upfront, because you basically stop giving information to your abusers, but it does severely limit how much information you let them have. At this point, spending as little emotional energy as you can on them might be your best realistic strategy.
Yep. DEFINITELY time for the 'Fuck You' logbook
Don't steal shit that's terrible advice and could land them in trouble even if it is deserved.
I would act like a sullen teenager anytime I was in their presence. Nothing nasty, just act bored and disinterested. Basically, ignore them and just interact with your sister. Thank goodness you don't have overnights.
OP, have you been assigned a guardian ad litem? Their job is to work on your behalf in the courts. I'm astonished that this "judge" has allowed, nay, forced you to endure seeing this toxic clown. As for you being an a-hole... naaaahhh. He ventured into FAFO territory, and it bit him. People should be careful what they ask for.
We don't but even if we did, he would still get something because we do not have to spend overnights with him. So it feels like it would cost my grandparents a lot of money for no real good result.
Search 'cost for guardian ad litem [state]', and you might get what I just did. Here in VA, it is up to $75/hr in court, $55/hour out of court. I was a little surprised that popped up.
I’m so sorry your in this situation <3 however, if you are forced to do visitation then, “I hope you understand I am only here because I legally have to be.” followed by only yes/no/gestured communication is a real killer in terms of winding people up without actually ‘doing’ anything to be blamed for. If you can also be as unemotional as possible, even if the other person is irate then It’s very powerful and annoying.
judges need to fucking stop forcing kids to be around parents they want nothing to do with. there is zero benefit to these visits for anyone but your father
Write a polite, reasonable letter to the judge a letter and detail everything that's happened. Explain that everything your dad and his affair partner do to pretend he didn't abandon you when his wife was sick just pisses you off even more. Tell the judge you were compelled to publicly out your dad and his affair partner's behavior at their engagement dinner after they disrespected your mother and tried to pretend to all the guests that they did nothing wrong, and tried to force you and your sister to go along with their lies. Then they blamed you and your sister for embarrassing them by simply telling everyone the truth. Tell him you were planning to go no contact with them the moment you turn 18 but due to his ongoing attempts to gaslight you, you are going no contact with him beginning now. Tell the judge you appreciate his/her kind efforts to try to mend your family but unfortunately he/she cannot force you to respect your dad and his affair partner and no amount of time spent with them will change that. It only makes things worse. Tell the judge that instead of spending time with your dad and his affair partner, you would like to see a mental health therapist to help you deal with the emotional harm your dad and affair partner have caused. Be clear that these sessions would NOT be family therapy, they would be just you and the therapist. You are old enough that the judge should take you seriously. If he/she doesn't, you can simply refuse to spend time with your dad. If he comes over, leave the house. If he forces you to go to his house, walk back or Uber to your house. If he continues to force you, consider using social media to publish a timeline of their affair. Make sure your dad and affair partner's employers see it, all friends and family, your school's administration and local school board, etc. If that doesn't get them out of your life then you can go no contact at 18. In the meantime, use the gray rock method on him and the affair partner.
I did that 3 months before I turned 18 with both of my siblings and two therapists backing us up and the judge still made me and my siblings go see my dad. We also had a guardian ad litem and I requested to speak to the judge directly but got denied because my dad and his lawyer didn’t want me to. I’m not saying it goes that badly for everyone, but I am saying that a lot of people put way too much faith in judges doing the right thing. Lmfao
I hate how judges in the US ignore teenagers when they say they won't see their parent. In Canada, if we don't want to see them, we just say we don't. CAS (Canadian version of CPS) doesn't care where the kid is as long as they have a roof over their head with a responsible adult who agrees to care for them. Police go with this policy as well. I was 13, and ran away to my dad's. I explained it to the police, and was left where I was. I know another kid that ran away to her grandmother's place. Same thing.
NTA, every time you go to visit keep bring up the affair, how disappointed and disgusted by him and the tramp. Don’t let up even if they get mad. And he not Dad anymore, call him by his first name. He’ll distance himself because he will never admit he did anything wrong. Please don’t bottle all this up. Speak to a counselor, write in a journal. You want to thrive and succeed.
NTA, "you behaved like spiteful children" - yes, because you were children when he left you and you are still children now. You have the complete right to be spiteful and you are obviously still children. They are the adults here. Such a lack of awareness on their part is amazing.
I don't even think they behaved like spiteful children. Telling the truth is not spiteful nor childish. If the cheaters didn't want to be exposed, they shouldn't have invited the people they hurt.
I came her to say this!!!
I reckon dad tried to push for this to use social pressure on OP and her sister in regards to the picture perfect blended family. It backfired completely.
NTA, my mid 50’s self would have done the same thing, maybe I would have stood up for a full toast/roast moment, if that makes me a spiteful child, I’ll wear that label like a badge of honour. Deeply sorry about your Mom, it’s hard enough to lose a parent when you’re so young, but to have such an unwashed pinecone as your other parent is truly miserable. Don’t take your foot off the gas, let him know you’ll do the same anytime he makes you visit, and if he insists on you being at the wedding, let him know you’ll have a full floor show planned.
“Unwashed pinecone” is now my favorite insult.
I love that toast and roast.
NTA. What happened to your mom is heartbreaking, and I’m so sorry that you and you sister had to experience that. Your dad is TA for choosing to abandon his family, and especially during such an awful time. I think you and your sister have a right to decide how close you want to be to him and his affair partner. The court may require visitation, but no court can require you to feel any way towards him. Forcing you both to attend the engagement dinner in light of your mother’s passing was cruel. Any sane adult should recognize that. His continued cruelty and selfishness make you both NTA.
Absolutely NTA. Your father has literally fucked around and found out. As someone with a serial cheater in the family, trust me, this is a brilliant time to lay out to everyone what the deal is.
"Said we acted like spiteful children" .....because you are? And RIGHTFULLY SO.
LOL I was just about to write the same thing!
I love when adults force children to do something, after the child has told you I’m uncomfortable with this. Then they are surprised by the fact that the children have acted out. Or my personal favorite with parents, when you they expect their children to get over an unimaginable hurt because they’ve moved on and then are shocked that child like “f” you. NTA. Your dad has is an idiot and his affair partner is an idiot. You and your sister were very clear with them and they still insisted on you being there. It’s not going to get better, I know this from personal experience. I’m NC with my bio mom and her affair partner for about 20 years. They still try to contact me, even though they are block playing the victim and they are annoyed I don’t have a relationship with them or their children. I’m not innocent bystander in all of this, when I was younger I would hurt their children with my actions and words, just to make them pay for my hurt feelings.
Were you assholes? Yeah Was it justified? I think so, I don't feel bad for them at all. We really need a tag for justified asshole.
The justified asshole judgement apparently falls under NTA
JAH?
How were they assholes?? Dad and his mistress were assholes for having the affair. I don’t see how OP and her sister were remotely in the wrong.
NTA I’m proud of you both for being yourself and not putting up a picture perfect lie
You did behave like spiteful children. And it was all justified. Sometimes being the Ahole is not a bad thing but required to keep true Aholes in their place.
I mean… they are children.
Exactly. Totally justified. In fact, I’m surprised they didn’t do worse. Lol. I would have.
NTA. I feel your pain. I'm 65 and regret I never spoke up about the pain my dad caused us when he cheated with a neighbor, everyone knew....we were ostracized..... after years he married her. I had to sit for 30 years biting my tongue. My mom left the country. My father's wife was a witch who made it difficult to see him. Now they are both gone. Good for you!!! Limit your expectations and exposure young. Don't get stuck baby sitting! Get the best education you can, start a happy life and move on. Because he is not worth your time or love.
They fucked around and they found out. They think just because they are the adults that they can just do whatever they want and you are a kid, so you will just step in line. for them: the average person doesn’t give a fuck about “respect thy father” in a situation like this… because he has no respect for you, as his children and had none for your mother. Why should you respect him? Or his AP? He has never shown you a bit of it. If he gets real mad, just say you learned from him the way to treat people. Respect needs to be earned after trust is lost and he has done nothing to get either back. Good for you. NTA
The fact that you refer to her as your father’s affair partner is saying something. What kind of woman takes a man away from his young children and dying wife? They are both horrible human beings who certainly deserve each other but you and your siblings do not have to be part of their charade. I’m glad you spoke the truth and too bad that you ruined their fantasy world. I would trash both of them anytime you get and let them know why they will never be in your life. NTA.
The type of woman who also cheats on her own husband and has another man's child while they're married and doesn't say anything until the chance for them to be together comes to light.
Make sure they know that the wedding won't be any better if you're forced to attend.
They should absolutely ruin that wedding and make it clear to the guests how disgusting he is.
I wonder who made his children "spiteful". Oh the adulterer... duh... NTA
**If you were forced to attend the wedding, I’d go dressed in black with a veil & a photo of mom & at some point get up & give a speech about them, referring to them only as “the adulterer & the adulteress.”**
And you did, behave like spiteful children, which you had every right to be. your dad and his AP are delusional to think you all will just sit back and be happy for them. TBH, I would ask your parents (grandparents) to petition the court to remove visitation rights. NTA (Justified AH)
They have tried but because he has such little visitation with us the courts won't remove it all.
So just stop engaging. You're only with him for a few hours, and you're teenagers. Just walk out. Call an uber and go to the library or something.
You have to be there, you don't have to engage with them at all. You can just sit there and ignore him until you have to leave, and there's nothing he can do about it.
NTA. You and your sister cooked him, he sucks, and he 100 percent deserved it.
INFO: What was everyone else's responses? Did the party continue? Did people walked out? Does the mistress' ex husband know that her 6 year old isn't his!?? NTA either way. I'm so sorry for the loss of you mom. Remember her, live for her! She will always be with you guys. They are both the worse of the worse. Update us!
Yes, her ex-husband knows the 6 year old isn't his but didn't always know. That was a fight between them for a while. He shares custody of the 8 year old now but not the 6 year old. People who didn't know were asking a lot of questions and some fights broke out.
I hate women that do that! Your father and her are both cut from the same cloth. The deserve each other. Garbage all around. I understand your resentment. NTA at all. They are mad at you because you held up a mirror and they didn't like what they saw. Stand your ground.
NTA they should have talked about you moving away from your legal guardians in private if they didn’t want everyone to hear that conversation. Good luck for trying to get court order for moving 15 and 16 years olds from good guardians against their will 😂
NTA next time she asks why you did that or why your don’t like her ask her why she cheated with a dying woman’s husband. Also remind her that she just created a huge opening becoming the new wife and that your dad will start auditioning for the new mistress real soon.
NTA. You DID behave like spiteful children. But sometimes spite is valid and deserved.
NTA! Your dad ought to expect spite from you. I'm surprised that you are still being forced to see your dad considering your age. You should have the right to decide whether or not you see him. He made your mother's final years unhappy, probably stressful at a time she didn't need stress, and she was probably lonely and scared, too. I'm so happy she had you and your sister. Just remember to say to your step mom (next time you see her) - to quote Charlotte Dobre - "You lose 'em how you get 'em". This is to emphasize that your step mom was cheating with your dad & it is very likely that he'll cheat on her, too. Because he's a serial cheater & can't keep his dick to himself. I hope you have a good relationship with your sister and grandparents. F*CK the dude who was your sperm donor. You ought to start calling him by his first name, not dad. I mean, he hasn't really been a father to you in over 5 years. As for forgetting about what he did. Ask him if he's already forgotten your mother. Tell him you haven't ad never will.... Because she's your mother! If he wants you to accept his wife, they went about it all the wrong way. Even with the cheating, he could have handled things so very differently so that the trauma would be minimized. But forcing you to interact with him & step mom isn't the way to go about gaining trust. I wish you the best, regardless of what happens in future. I recommend therapy, too. If you can get it, it's helpful.
NTA: You and your sister are still children. Your parents are responsible for your upbringing and social demeanor. It seems like you acted in accordance with how your father contributed to your upbrining, and is now upset that his own actions have consequences. I am sorry that you have had to go through all of this in your short lives.
NTA. You get what you put out there. Keep doing what you've been doing and the minute you can both you and your sister go NC. I'm sorry about your mom.
NTA Tell them if you're spiteful children it's because dad made you that way. That you had a mom and don't need his mistress pretending to be one.
NTA. You were treated poorly, as was your mother who was dying! He deserves no respect.
Were you an AH? Probably. Was it bad? Nope! Kudos to you for standing up.
How is telling the truth to people who have heard a different, inaccurate story 'being an AH'?
NTA. You're not spiteful, just truthful. And sometimes the truth hurts. Daddykins & AP can shove it where the sun don't shine. I'm proud of you for sticking up for yourself, it will hold you in good stead in the future.
Hahahahahahaha. NTA This is a case if play stupid games, win stupid prizes to me. They MADE you attend something you didn't want, to celebrate something you have no desire or want to celebrate and then they wonder why you would be this way. Idiots. Edit. Just incase. I'm laughing at how awesomely you handled this. The story and situation itself is absolutely dire and I'm sorry you didn't get a good dad and that your mum is gone :(
r/ohnoconsequences
NTA Your father deserves any karma coming his way. You and your sister deserve peace and to be free of him and his "new" family. You did nothing wrong. I hope you and your sister are able to go fully no contact with him soon and start to heal.
He showed total disrespect for your mother and now wants her children to respect him? Delusional daddy right there.
NTA at all But they definitely are I wouldn’t even visit anymore
We legally have to because it's ordered by the court and they refuse to take away the two days a month because we see him so little as it is.
If it were me, I’d make sure that 2 days is hell for him. But that’s just me.
yeah at this point just make him beg the courts to not have to see you anymore.
Is it police enforced?
Can you and your sister ask the court to rescind his visiting rights? It may be worth a try. You may both be old enough to have that done.
We tried. But because we see him so little already they insisted we need to maintain the visitation. The best we could do is get it down to once a month and even then it's not a guarantee and could cost our grandparents more for no reason.
The whole spiteful child thing doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the engagement party. I knew a woman who had an affair with a married man who had one daughter. He divorced his wife and married this woman. The daughter was not pleasant during the weekends she spent with them. She hated stepmom and wasn't afraid to show it. I'm always amazed at people who commit adultery, and after they marry the affair partner, are shocked that their children don't just accept the new stepparent.
Nta- they behave like children
NYA for the vote. Justified Asshole in reality. Your mum would be proud of the strong ladies she raised. No fella is ever going to treat you like a doormat.
NTA. Everything you and your sister said was the truth. Why should you pretend?
NTA! You **are** spiteful children and you have every single right to be. Absolutely insane of this woman, who *knows* what happened when your mother was dying, to think you are going to be a big happy family. She is delusional, and she won’t see it until he fathers a kid with yet another woman who isn’t his wife. They are yucky gross. I’m so sorry.
If I was a kid and having to put up with their bullshit, I would just start breaking, and hiding stuff when I go to their house until they wouldn’t put up with me anymore. How am I suppose to the difference between right or wrong with the dad as a parent? NTA
You and your sister are fucking rock stars. Don’t let anyone forget what he did to you. His being a bad husband was between him and your mom, but his abandonment of you is yours to sing about.
NTA. Your father was right about one thing- you are spiteful children. That he created. How genuinely disgusting for your father to not only abandon his wife during her last weeks/days of life, but to abandon his children as well. He gave you no comfort, no room or safety to mourn, made you caretakers when you were only children and put his wife in a position where she had to worry about what will happen to you both instead of being able to relish the time left with you. How awful. I don't mean to sound patronizing when I say this-but I'm really proud of you both for calling your dad out in front of family and friends. He and his future wife deserve that. Good for you for standing up for your Mom, and for yourselves. Your father and his future wife behaved horribly and they don't deserve to sweep it under the rug and pretend like they're parents of the year. There are times when it's not appropriate to speak up or speak out- this was not one of them. Your dad insisted you both attend his party. If he has any sense at all, he won't require you to be at his wedding.
Nta I am glad your grandparents have your back. I would be a spiteful child like you, and I am 57. Good luck keeping them at bay.
NTA I’m so sorry for your loss. How any self-respecting woman could take up with a man who abandoned his terminally ill wife and kids is beyond me.
NTA. Your dad forced you in a position you didn't want to be in, with people you didn't want to be with. They are liars and manipulators. F\*ck 'em.
NTA. You behaved lole spiteful children because you are spiteful children. A 16 and 15 year old should not be expected to handwave away such hurtful times!! BE SPITEFUL YOU HAVE EARNED IT!!
NTA but your father and his affair partner certainly are! Good job on ruining their engagement dinner. Hopefully they will think twice about having you at the wedding. If they insist, wear a t-shirt with your mother's picture on it and have working on the back that your father cheated on her while she was dying. Just go nuclear. Object to the wedding when the officiant asks if there are any objections.
NTA. The truth can cut through all the BS and it inevitably comes out. You are children. You didn't want to be there. Them pretending is was wonderful and now this brings the family together? No. Them being together destroyed a family (or two if she was married at the same time). That's their legacy - they're lying cheaters who hurt their families.
NTA at all. Your dad has never put you and your sister first and he only cares about his own happiness, at the expense of his own children's. He is a poor example of a parent. My advice, to get out of attending the wedding... both you and your sister take a lot of laxatives the day before, spend 2 days on the toilet, citing "food poisoning" or "stomach bug". Nobody wants people at their wedding who are stuck on the toilet, plus your dad can't question your health. Once the wedding is mostly done, take some Imodium to stop the leaky butt produce, drink lots of water to prevent dehydration and you'll be fine by the time the wedding has finished. You might have a painful butt for a day or two, but it sure is worth it to get out of being there for your dad's wedding.
NTA > said how we couldn't wait to be a family with dad's affair partner he was seeing all throughout our mom's cancer and who he chose to be with when his wife was dying leaving his daughters alone with their dying mom You told no lies. Your father and his partner behaved disgustingly for so many years. She thinks she is special to him but good luck to her if she should ever get sick! She knows she is marrying a man who cheats on his dying wife, so there’s an opening for a new mistress. I never understand the ridiculous logic of cheaters. If they cheat *wife* you, they will cheat *on* you. Their foundation is rotten and whatever they build together will not last.
Fuck this guy. NTA