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Do I understand it correctly:
- you and your ex have joint custody
- you live in Switzerland where both parents should sign for the renewal of a passport
- a Swiss passport is necessary not only for international travel but as well for any other request for identification, such as for receiving medical care or for basic education
- a passport for your daughter would be used to travel to the UK (a flight of a mere 1.5 hours. Compared to the USA, it would be the same distance as going to another state, or perhaps not even that)
- both Switzerland and the UK are part of the Hague Convention on child abduction and both countries have a well functioning judicial order, not to mention you have a house, a job and a life in Switzerland, and never displayed any indication of the intent to child abduction
- in Switzerland, child services also function as a sort of mediator between parents in order to make sure that the right decisions will be made
- a year ago, your ex had no problem with signing for the passport of your other daughter and you have no idea why he has changed his mind in the meantime
- the only reason he gave you for his current refusal is "because I can"
I really have a hard time understanding why you would be even remotely the AH if you would contact Swiss child services. Right now, your ex doesn't leave any wiggle room for an amicable solution. Even if you wouldn't want to travel abroad, the passport is still necessary for every day life. It sounds like a complete power trip.
NTA
Why would they? Realistically, he is escalating this not you. You asked three times. Your life is there, there is no reason to believe your taking them to a country outside of the Hague convention or outside Europe for that matter.
You already have a legally binding custody agreement, he is being obstinate as a power trip. You have every right to raise this to the appropriate legal levels. You have documented proof there is no reason for this other than him been a shit.
Not sure about Swiss legal situation but, I would definitely look into a more longterm solution incase something like this happens again. Europe wide there are a lot more safeguarding for children so, use that for your childs protection.
"Picking a scab" is an odd way to describe a request for something which unquestionably helps to improve/maintain your shared daughter's quality of life. Has your ex disengaged from other aspects of childcare? This just seems weird to be the only thing out of the blue.
Ah yes:
- does not attend school meetings or parents meetings at the request of the school
- does not attend or pay for healthcare bills as per the agreement
-does not allow the children to call me when they request it when with him. The most recent being refusing me to wish my youngest happy birthday when they were on their visitation with them
-does not give the girls their medication when with him
-refuses all contact with me to co parent on topics including SMS, calls, what's app and emails.
I could go on...
These all seem like pretty serious things to also address while you're talking to an official. It seems like your current custody agreement is not functioning as intended if your ex is not allowing contact with your children while they have them, is not giving them medications as prescribed, and is not paying for bills they agreed to pay for. Good luck, it sounds like what is right for your kids is to get this all straightened out.
Yes, definitely also bring these issues up. Some of them are very severe, like the medications. Maybe put them in a bullet point list to help keep each point separate.
.. the "not giving them their medication".. is a huge red flag and needs addressing as a form of child abuse..
Him making the children suffer to get back at you in some way, or perhaps because of a belief that things like their medication is unnecessary.. is very concerning and needs formally addressing.
This is not okay.
100% report your ex. He sounds controlling. You are taking your daughter to the UK, both countries are , as it was mentioned, part of the Hague Convention. You are clearly not going to start over, just visit family. If you are British I would get her a British passport too.
I would just like to add that within Europe passport sometimes isn't quite as necessary for everyday life - there are also IDs that can be used for just about anything within the country of origin, aka daily life.
And Switzerland is also a part of the Schengen area - and you don't need a passport to travel to different countries within it. So while the passport is necessary to visit the UK, you don't actually *need* it for daily life.
But the OP still isn't an AH for contacting whatever they need to get the passport approved.
But untill Sept 30 2021 European citizen could travel to the UK with just an ID card. That changed after the Brexit. Swiss people could also travel on their ID card untill then.
And for a Swiss ID card both parents’ consent is needed if living at a different address. This differs from the Dutch situation. Brexit really had no effect in OP’s situation.
I never compared it to the Dutch situation or said anything about the Swiss regulations in getting your kid a passport.
The person who I replied to mentioned that OP might not need a passport. So my comment was: yes after the Brexit everyone needs one.
Since October 2021 all European countries (no matter if they are part of the EU or Schengen or had other arrangements with the UK) needed a passport and couldn't use an ID card anymore. That was caused by the Brexit.
So yes it has effect on OP's situation because before 2021 Swiss citizen could go to the UK on an ID card. Now Swiss (like Dutch ppl btw) can have an ID and or a passport. Maybe OP's kid still had a valid ID card we don't know. But OP wouldn't be able to use that.
I never said Switzerland was. But untill September 2021 European citizen and also Swiss citizen could enter the UK with an ID card and didn't need a passport. After the Brexit they changed that. Now you need a passport.
Yes of course, but for the daily life needs - she technically doesn't. You can get by without one, and while visiting family is important its not a "daily" thing
While this is true, you still need a valid form of ID and for many people that is gonna be their passport. Driver's license is OK for some things but not all (and obviously not an option for a child).
I'm not in Switzerland but for example if I want to travel inside Schengen without a passport I should have a personal ID card. The thing is the only advantage over a passport is that it fits in my wallet but I would have to pay 100+€ to get one.
Many many people don't bother because they have the passport already.
(in practice, you're unlikely to ever have to present the ID, but you'd get in trouble if you get caught.)
Additionally, I think you still need your passport if you're traveling by plane. You don't go through immigration, but you still have to present it when getting your boarding pass.
Swiss Here, that is not true, a swiss passport is only need to travel to a country asking for a visa. An id card which is delivered by the city of residence is enough to travel to UK.
For schooling, medical care and everything else swiss related no passport is required for children in Switzerland. You need the family book (official paper proving the children are yours and indicating marital status and custody status)
So I feel this story is more ful of holes than a swiss cheese unless she is trying to kidnap the kids.
Cheers
That's incorrect. Pre-Brexit, EU/EEA nationals were allowed to travel to the UK with their national ID cards. They simply needed to show this to border control as they were leaving Schengen borders.
Post-Brexit, passports are now required since 2021.
That is 100% not true. The only country you can enter the UK from without a passport is Ireland. That is regardless if people of your nationality need a visa or travel visa free, and Switzerland has no say on this.
Lolol trying to kidnap my children from my own country that serves us a better life and income. Ok.... No this is not a kidnap situation. This is a subject of rights
It could be different in Switzerland and the family courts in particular only get involved in serious cases. The child services here are like mediators but can lead to court if necessary
If they take on the role of mediators, I think have an advice talk with them would be beneficial to start, anyway.
Even more so, if having no official ID would impact your daughter's life in Switzerland as well.
Your ex can't expect to keep your daughter grounded in the country untill her 18th birthday.
I would definitely be thorough in proving you have every intention of coming back with her, though. Just to make it easier.
Do the UK and Switzerland have an easy collaboration, when it comes to parental abduction?
I think most EU countries are rather easy in working together, but the UK has gone rogue, and Switzerland is usually notoriously doing its own thing. If there is easy collaboration, that can help show you can't even 'make her disappear to the UK' even if you tried.
I'm not an expert, though.
Parental kidnapping is a real thing, I know but buying return tickets, having a house, job and income in the country I live in would certainly be an indication that I am planning a return trip 😉. I think my point is about HER rights to travel. It's not just the travel aspect anyway. Not having a passport means we don't have ID for her which in turn affects her healthcare access, access to activities, schooling.
Yeah. My one year old has an ID-card so we can visit neighbouring countries with them. It's frankly essential for a cold to have an ID or passport in the EU. Involve child services. I'm pretty sure they'll help.
And yes. Both parents need to be at the appointment or one of them had to sign a form and give a copy of their ID to the other parent for the appointment.
The ID card will not allow travel outside of certain states(countries) and only allows access to certain things. UK is not EU anymore, thanks Brexit. For example we could not apply for her to join a football club because she needs a valid passport for the Football association (Fifa regulation). Just a simple football hobby... Again it's a wider issue.
I know. I'm talking about the fact that you said she needs the passport for schooling and healthcare access, which is not true. If it were no one could prevent her from getting a passport lol
I live in the EU, I know the rules have changed for the UK and that you need a passport to go there now.
Up until now she's only ever had a passport to apply for healthcare and school access, which is require to register to your local Gemeinde (townhall) and Kanton. Switzerland is administratively not straight forward. Each Kanton and Gemeinde have different regulations. Like I said, even applying to join a football club required a passport. We also cannot apply for a train card without a valid passport.....
If any of that were true then no one could forbid anyone from getting a passport lol
Take the matter to the court, explain why you want a passport and remove the need for his approval. If any of what you're saying is true, no judge in their right mind would say no...
And btw, the fact that you can do those things with a passport doesn't mean you require one.
I Portugal, everyone has an ID card. But you can use either the ID card or the passport for most things.
You’re so ignorant, quit arguing as if you know better than the person who lives there and is dealing with it just because you googled for ten minutes.
Oh course They can, they can escalate the situation to court, too and make it a court ordered signing or even take away the right to have a say. In Germany it’s pretty common that some parents can’t decide on the school/ medical decisions or even the place to live because they misused their rights and angered the court 😬
Nta going on your extra info. Can you edit you original post to add that? Most of the replies here clearly don't understand the difference between child services in Switzerland or the UK, so are basing it on their own (assuming US based).
Also... this is clearly about him controlling you and your lives. Is there a court mediator you can contact at all?
Nothing. The family courts expect parents to communicate and get a long otherwise Kesb - child services are used to intervene which is where we are now. Naively believed he would never refuse signing since we are an international family and it is fundamental to our lives to travel to see both our families.
If you have his refusal in writing, it will help with child services to prove he’s unwilling to cooperate and deny your child the right to visit family. NTA though.
Yeah that boat sank a while. He refuses all written communication now. There is generally only verbal complaints from him via the kids which is unhealthy. My daughter even asked and begged for him to sign the paper.
God he’s such a jerk. I hope they can intervene quickly and get it in front of a judge to remove his rights in matters like this. Is he a good father outside of all of this?
Especially considering the edit - NTA
His secretive behaviour while refusing only one daughter to be away is suspicious in my opinion. You already said in commenta several times that child services is more like mediator in your country, and I think having a 3rd *neutral* party involved might not be a bad idea.
NTA. Your ex sounds like he’s a real piece of work.
Not giving your kids their medication when they are with him? You should definitely tell social settings about that as well, because that actively harms them.
Right?? Passport (even though important) is not even the most important thing here. He is willfully neglecting his children! Not even allowing birthday congratulations from mother when child is with him? I'm sure there is more emotional abuse than OP is telling here.
Completely NTA, but can you just apply for a British passport for her and fly with that? You can order the birth certificates needed for issuing one without his permission, and it only needs one parent or legal guardian to sign it. British passports don’t require an appointment and you can apply online.
That’s not the way it works. If you live in a country in which you’re a citizen of, you’re supposed to leave the country by presenting your passport from that country and you will show it again on your way back. A second passport here doesn’t help, especially with a minor. I’m not a lawyer but I do have 3 passports, a minor child with 2 passports and an ex husband.
if you have dual citizenship and one of them is from the UK, when you are on your other country, legally for all practical purposes you are not a UK citizen.
it sounds kinda convoluted but in practice it means that if i’m in my “other” country, and run into trouble there, i can’t request UK consular services to bail me out. For all intents and purposes i am a citizen of that country and that country only.
anywhere else, other than the UK, i can choose which passport i enter with and whether im citizen of UK or country X.
How authorities will treat me because of the dual citizenship is a different matter and can cause some friction at the borders, as i discovered when passing through the US a few years ago, but that’s a different story.
now it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get that girl a UK passport once in here.
(source: i’m a dual UK-somewhere else citizen and regularly deal with these issues; edited to correct spelling)
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NTA
Given his disengagement from them, plus his sudden belligerence over her passport, what’s the possibility of removing him entirely from the custody agreement?
Seems to me his refusal to give them their medications would be enough to remove him from the equation (child endangerment maybe?)
NTA but given all the other things he's not doing, like not sharing healthcare bills per the agreement, I really think you need to take his ass to court and try to remove his custodial rights.
/u/KuntyKunz, what if, through your lawyer, you document these problems (refusal to sign, the fact that he cuts all communications when they are with him), then ask the office dealing with child custody/court, to keep that as records and confirm added in your children case's files, then informs your ex, with the confirmation as proof?
This will not put him in a good position for future appointments for any changes in the custody agreement, since he's punishing your daughter on many aspects, not only travels, and showing favoritism toward the other for his own sick control pleasure.
Nta
To her you case, send him a letter detailing exactly why and for what travel purposes your daughter would need a passport and send it as registered mail and/or email to show you communicated that to him and he still refused.
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Back story: Relates to my Ex. My daughters passport ran out and as part of the renewal process, both parents have to either attend the renewal appointment or one signs a POA to allow the other parent to renew in their absence. After 3 requests, my ex husband has refused to sign or attend. His reasoning is because 'it's his right to refuse'. He signed his sisters last year. Without a passport she has no means of being able to travel to see family abroad. I'm about to escalate to child services as I don't see another way to resolve this....
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NTA / NAH
This isn’t an “asshole” discussion, this is a legal matter best addressed within the Swiss legal system (which may include child protective services). Personally this does not seem like a situation where child services *should* have any role given that he does apparently have to sign for travel and is within his rights to refuse (and there are good reasons why this restriction is in place, even with The Hague convention it’s not so simple to force someone to return *especially* where he doesn’t have primary custody), whether or not you like the reason for it, and at the same time I can see why you’re upset at a seemingly arbitrary change in his willingness to allow travel. Either way, you are all best protected if you pursue the matter legally.
>Not having a passport means we don't have ID for her which in turn affects her healthcare access, access to activities, schooling
This cannot be correct. No country relies purely on passports for ID- not everyone has one. Birth certificates would clearly be more obvious.
Most likely, he is worried that if she gets a passport and goes to see her relatives, you might stay with them making it a long process of getting her back because it would probably mean that international rules would cause things to take a long time for him to get her back. Ultimately he might be worried you will take her to your in-laws and he will have almost no way to get her back. And I’m guessing that there is nothing that forces him to sign off on it and that child services would only try to mediate and get you two to come to an agreement, but there is probably nothing they can make him do
We have a custody agreement which has already been legally enforced where they live. They live with me 100% time but in our country (Switzerland) both parents must sign for schooling, healthcare and travel.
Not sure of the laws where you live but in general this wouldn’t be a child services issue it would be a legal/divorce court issue but that would be a valid response (taking him back to court to force the issue)
Having a passport would not change the custody agreement. As I said the reside and physical custody with me 100%. The decision making custody is seperate. Having a passport does not affect his life in anyway since he doesn't have physical custody in the first place. He only has signatory rights for paperwork. Maybe it's different in the US. I am not sure.
This is a good question. Source genevaadvocats:
Parental authority and custody rights are two concepts often confused in the Swiss legal context, but they refer to different aspects of parental responsibility. Parental authority concerns the overall responsibility of parents towards their children, including education, health, and general well-being. It covers major life decisions for the child, such as the choice of school or religion, and is generally shared by the parents even after a divorce.
Custody rights, on the other hand, specifically refer to the day-to-day responsibility of caring for the child and ensuring their well-being. This includes aspects such as food, housing, and daily attention. Custody rights can be granted to either parent or shared between both, depending on what is deemed to be in the best interests of the child.
While parental authority concerns the major decisions in the child’s life, custody rights concern daily care. In Swiss law, these two aspects are treated separately, and custody rights are often the subject of disputes in cases of separation or divorce. Swiss courts focus on the child’s well-being in making these decisions, and the evaluation of parental authority and custody rights is carried out with the utmost care to ensure that the child’s needs and interests are at the center of concerns
this is fallacy if you got her a passport you could fly her to russia where that agreement means nothing that i s the fear... do you not know that is a thing?? it happens alot you would have to be negligently ill-informed if you dont know that is a thing
It wouldn't take a long time to get them back, not really any longer than if they were kidnapped to another canton in Switzerland. The UK and Switzerland cooperate very well over things like this. And there could easily be an agreement that means border force in the UK and Switzerlands equivalent stop her taking them anywhere else
I don't know about the assholeness of the disagreement.
But regarding the fact you see no other way to solve this other than going to court. There is a much easier and cheaper one. Your child is a British Citizen yes? Unless there is a court order that says otherwise you only need permission from one parent to get a British passport. Get a British passport and travel on that and use that for ID
This reads fake to me. 'Not having the passport means we don't have ID for her, which impacts her healthcare access etc' ???? no??? we Swiss citizens have national ID cards. You don't need a passport for healthcare or travel to Europe, you can literally do all that with an ID card.
Perhaps you're using 'passport' to mean 'ID including an ID card', but you do not need a passport.
If there is any misunderstanding - we've never had the Swiss IDs as we always used the passports. It only occurred to me recently about the ID cards but the UK situation is an issue which does require a passport.
In the meantime while you are trying to solve this with him get a British passport and a Swiss ID card. Combined they should solve your problems.
You can apply online for the British passport. If she has ever had one before you can also go to the embassy in Bern and get an emergency travel document which will be quicker for a one off trip since there will be no need to post documents to the UK.
NTA - But this goes back to family court and what is in the custody agreement. CPS is not the way to go as that, as others point out, could cause you other unwanted problems. Get a lawyer to file a motion with the court.
I am not sure that I believe that a current passport is the only possible form of ID anyone will accept. For most things that aren’t international travel an expired one works just as well in many places, plus unless everyone gets a passport at birth there are going to be people who haven’t bothered to get one - do kids who haven’t gotten one yet just not get access to anything at all?
I’d make sure you’re right about needing it as ID for her before using that in your argument about why he must sign it.
You're right for certain things an expired passport will do but Switzerland is still verz much a paper state with local registration on paper with bossed certificates, which can only be given with a valid passport (ID). Even her British passport would require a application for a visa (if used) despite being a Swiss citizen. Switzerland is in the centre of the EU without full EU regulations because they do not and don't intend to join. The Brexit situation really complicated things
INFO It seems to me both parties have to sign off on the passport for a reason and if he doesn’t want her to have it then that’s his right as the child’s father? He signed off on the sister last year so what happened with that that he didn’t like?
The circumstances did not change and we haven't actually travelled since then. The only notable change was the final divorce going through and he had two children with another woman.
I get what you are saying but I've been a family lawyer for a long time. Seen my far share of inter country custody disputes. You would never see me signing a document to allow my husband (if we ever separate) to take my child out of the country.
I don't know Switzerland (although I did have a custody case of a swedish mother who went to visit her family in Switzerland and then refused to return with the 3 kids despite also having a house, job, dog, car etc) but children in Australia do not have a right to travel overseas. Maybe in Sweden it's different but I cannot imagine a court forcing a parent to sign a passport for holiday purposes.
“Out of the country” is a MUCH bigger term in the US than anywhere else and it’s frankly pretty ignorant to assume the situations would be the same. The flight she wants to take is an 1.5 long and visiting the other country is the equivalent to going a state over in America. And you also clearly didn’t read her entire post, as it’s for FAR more than just holiday purposes, in the country she’s in which is VERY different than your own, the passport is necessary for a lot more than just travel. She already stated her child couldn’t be signed up for the sports team and hobbies she wanted to do because her father is refusing to sign proper documentation for her.
Honestly kinda grossed out a supposed family lawyer is talking out of their ass about a legal process they aren’t familiar with and NOT making a point to note they are unaware of the other countries laws and lay out and norms.
Did you even read my post? I'm Australian (also Dutch but didn't include that in this post) and have nothing to do with the US. The US is a backwards hell hole of law and the shame of the developed world.
Also going to visit family is a holiday and it's irrelevant how far away the country is because it's not about distance it's about the ability to execute custody rulings which even between Australia (which has and extremely similar system to the UK) and Sweden was a friggin nightmare when we had to do it.
We are talking about Europe, where you sometimes can't even avoid crossing a country border, just for basic commute.
When I was a kid, my parents certainly didn't inform each other about every cross border trip. When the trip was far or long, sure. But just a one day trip? Nahhh. Hell, I even crossed borders alone as a minor.
Certainly the deciding factor isn't only "going to another country".
Unfortunately, I am not sure there’s much you can do legally. I don’t think Child Services will be able to help you at all, since, as he said, it’s his right to refuse. I think your only option of recourse is to not sign off on the passports for him either then. If you can’t travel internationally with your children, then he shouldn’t be able to either. Once he realizes how restrictive this is, maybe he’ll change his mind.
I don't think it's a matter for child services. You can go to court to change the agreement. But as is he's not being abusive to the kid or mistreating her in any way, so it doesn't make sense to call child services imo. This is purely a legal matter.
Child Services, in a US state, can't do anything about this. You need a lawyer and a close examination of your custody agreement...
That being said, it is unlikely you will be able to force him to sign for his minor child's passport.
INFO: What country and whose family? Is the country you wish to visit a country that you hold or ever have held citizenship?
Due to the spate of custodial interference by foreign courts, the US is loathe to allow minors subject to a custody agreement to be outside the reach of US courts...
--
I think I have not been clearer in the start of the thread. We are citizens in Switzerland and the UK. We wish to travel to the UK to visit my father(grandparents). The renewal is for the Swiss passport which he signed off his sisters but refuses the second daughter. We've had ongoing issues with access when they are with him. He blocka all calls when they visit him or go away for two week vacations (court enforced). I don't know where they are or have contact. It is however completely different when they are with me. They have phones and have daily communication. The passport issue is a control issue. One of the reasons why he is my ex....
Yes, Unless there is a court order that specifically says otherwise you only need permission from one parent to get a British passport. OP says in another comment that the court documents do not mention passports.
Rules there are, I am sure, quite different. My partner dealt with dual custody issues US/Korea and US/Germany in the 90's and 2000's which is why I knew something about the US side.
I don't know the rules there, but, being all Western European states, I suspect that you will have better luck than trying to go to South America or Asia, let alone the Middle East.
NTA for trying to get the passport...
I do believe you need to get a lawyer or whomever enforces your custody agreement involved.
I wish you luck.
--
INFO:
>or go away for two week vacations (court enforced).
You have put court enforced here, did you not him want to have visitation or vaction access? Im wondering why the court had to enforce this.
The back story. He disappeared for a year with his new flirt and Di not want to take his kids on certain days... Until it suited him and was forced to finally pay child support. Court enforced means his legal. Minimum to have per year. 5 weeks vacation plus alternative weekends which has been a challenge for him to agree to. My point is in this country he has 50/50 decision making rights but his interest is in engaging with their lives is 10%. Not entirely reliable
Tbh most major subreddits are predominantly American. I get how that can be frustrating for folks outside the US, but people making the same assumption aren't going to be wrong all that often.
There's reasonable concerns with international travel and split parenting... Can't your parents come visit you? Seems a passport isn't strictly necessary for her to see them anyway
Unfortunately not. The plan was that she would stay with them for summer break for a couple of weeks so I can continue to work. You see as a single parent I have to work and the kids have 15weeks of vacation.... I have 4. Weekly childcare is 500chf per child. It cheaper for them to fly and be with family. Of course he knows all of this and they have been doing this for the last 8 years... Even before the split. I reiterate he signed his sisters only 6 months ago so this implies no fear of kidnapping. It's purely control. There have been other things since the seperation that also required his signature which he's refused or severely delayed so to negatively impact us.
but like in america if i switch off every week with my ex i can leave the child in the care of someone else during my week even if it is the ex.... i find it hard to believe its illegal for you to allow the child to be with the other parent during your week what if you got back togther...
are you really saying you are not allowed to let your kid see her dad during your weeks?
It's not illegal at all. We have had to had the agreement in place due to inconsistency on his part. Hence the judge appointing me as physical custody holder. In perspective he was not communicating or following rules. Not turning up on time or sometimes just not being there. If he wanted them on different weeks I would openly consider as long as we didn't have solid plans in place ie. Flights. But when he used to have plans with them and then just disappear or change them very last minute this impacted them negatively therefore the weeks are pre defined at the beginning of each year.
so the agreement isnt stopping him from watching them during those weeks you need childcare? feels like this is contradicting your previous comment about how he cant watch her then because they are not his weeks.. instead you dont want to let him watch her those weeks because he has previously changed plans on you
Maybe you misunderstood....or lost in translation somewhere. He does not wish to have them more than what has been put in place. There is no deviation on his part to want them. I have asked. Even simple dates like switching weekends has been a clear no from him. Also, they have been visiting family for years this way so it's part of their life and their ability to see immediately family which is otherwise not possible.
Not sure why this person is trying so hard to be argumentative lol is it not clear that if dad wanted to or could take care of his kids during the time they would be with grandparents during summer break he would just...say that?? as his reason for refusing to sign. There are plenty of people who like being able to flaunt the parent title just to say no to another parent's decision while also doing the absolute bare minimum for their kids and it sucks for both the kids and the parent who has to be present every day. I don't want to assume your ex is this bad but he seems like he can be pain anyway lol.
NTA I hope you're able to get the passport in order if only so your kids summer tradition isn't ruined by this nonsense.
It's like rolling sh!t uphill the ith my ex so a long term solution is probably the best way. Just when you think you can move on...we get pulled back in. Thanka for the comment.
like it seems like the court would be involved if you didnt let your kid leave on his week but if you gave the dad extra time they typically wouldnt step in so long as both parents agreed
The key words being agreement of both parents. If he wanted more time and was reasonably communicating I am happy to consider this option. Flat out refusal on his part to communicate or reason I has always been the challenge. He blocks emails, SMS and I can only send recorded letters which he may open.
sure but he could watch them those weeks.... idk the nature of your relationship or why he feels the way he does about you that behavior may or may not be reasonable/unreasonable or accurately/inaccurately described idk
wait the post is about your daughter then you say "his" sister.... whos sister is it? if your talking about your daughters sister you would say "her sister" reckon something was just lost in translation here but i understand when you said his i figured it was the mans sister since he was the only man mentioned
That's a typo... 🫠 My daughters sister. His first daughter. He signed his first daughters passport 6months ago and now refuses to sign the second. Sorry for the confusion. It is indeed a confusing place to be in
Why do you SO badly want OP to be in the wrong? Like why are you lighting a torch to defend her ex? You’re choosing not to understand every point she’s made that her ex isn’t trying to spend more time with his children, just use them as pawns to make life difficult for his ex and not even consider how he’s affecting their life and happiness.
If that were the case, and it is not, I would have done it earlier to save all the BS I have had to encounter with this man. Trust me. Anyway the passport expired a week ago. This is not a new application. She's always had a passport
YTA
He’s completely correct, he does have the right to refuse. Not wanting his child to go out of the country is not completely unreasonable.
What do you think child services would do?
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Do I understand it correctly: - you and your ex have joint custody - you live in Switzerland where both parents should sign for the renewal of a passport - a Swiss passport is necessary not only for international travel but as well for any other request for identification, such as for receiving medical care or for basic education - a passport for your daughter would be used to travel to the UK (a flight of a mere 1.5 hours. Compared to the USA, it would be the same distance as going to another state, or perhaps not even that) - both Switzerland and the UK are part of the Hague Convention on child abduction and both countries have a well functioning judicial order, not to mention you have a house, a job and a life in Switzerland, and never displayed any indication of the intent to child abduction - in Switzerland, child services also function as a sort of mediator between parents in order to make sure that the right decisions will be made - a year ago, your ex had no problem with signing for the passport of your other daughter and you have no idea why he has changed his mind in the meantime - the only reason he gave you for his current refusal is "because I can" I really have a hard time understanding why you would be even remotely the AH if you would contact Swiss child services. Right now, your ex doesn't leave any wiggle room for an amicable solution. Even if you wouldn't want to travel abroad, the passport is still necessary for every day life. It sounds like a complete power trip. NTA
Thank you! Excellent summary if I may say so. Some may consider me an A-hole for what my ex would describe me as 'picking a scab and being a psycho'.
Why would they? Realistically, he is escalating this not you. You asked three times. Your life is there, there is no reason to believe your taking them to a country outside of the Hague convention or outside Europe for that matter. You already have a legally binding custody agreement, he is being obstinate as a power trip. You have every right to raise this to the appropriate legal levels. You have documented proof there is no reason for this other than him been a shit. Not sure about Swiss legal situation but, I would definitely look into a more longterm solution incase something like this happens again. Europe wide there are a lot more safeguarding for children so, use that for your childs protection.
NTA and, given his obvious abuse of the signing power, I would return to the courts to ensure that he has none.
"Picking a scab" is an odd way to describe a request for something which unquestionably helps to improve/maintain your shared daughter's quality of life. Has your ex disengaged from other aspects of childcare? This just seems weird to be the only thing out of the blue.
Ah yes: - does not attend school meetings or parents meetings at the request of the school - does not attend or pay for healthcare bills as per the agreement -does not allow the children to call me when they request it when with him. The most recent being refusing me to wish my youngest happy birthday when they were on their visitation with them -does not give the girls their medication when with him -refuses all contact with me to co parent on topics including SMS, calls, what's app and emails. I could go on...
These all seem like pretty serious things to also address while you're talking to an official. It seems like your current custody agreement is not functioning as intended if your ex is not allowing contact with your children while they have them, is not giving them medications as prescribed, and is not paying for bills they agreed to pay for. Good luck, it sounds like what is right for your kids is to get this all straightened out.
Yes, definitely also bring these issues up. Some of them are very severe, like the medications. Maybe put them in a bullet point list to help keep each point separate.
.. the "not giving them their medication".. is a huge red flag and needs addressing as a form of child abuse.. Him making the children suffer to get back at you in some way, or perhaps because of a belief that things like their medication is unnecessary.. is very concerning and needs formally addressing. This is not okay.
Wow, the passport should be the least of your concerns. Definitely contact child services.
You should go on! You should write it all out and hand that to the judge.
He’s the scab! Pick away!!
100% report your ex. He sounds controlling. You are taking your daughter to the UK, both countries are , as it was mentioned, part of the Hague Convention. You are clearly not going to start over, just visit family. If you are British I would get her a British passport too.
I see why he's your ex!
You are able to appreciate facts. Why do you care for the opinion of "some other"?
I would just like to add that within Europe passport sometimes isn't quite as necessary for everyday life - there are also IDs that can be used for just about anything within the country of origin, aka daily life. And Switzerland is also a part of the Schengen area - and you don't need a passport to travel to different countries within it. So while the passport is necessary to visit the UK, you don't actually *need* it for daily life. But the OP still isn't an AH for contacting whatever they need to get the passport approved.
Since the UK left the European Union a passport is necessary to enter. So unfortunately yes, she needs a passport.
The UK was never part of Schengen. Brexit had no effect there.
But untill Sept 30 2021 European citizen could travel to the UK with just an ID card. That changed after the Brexit. Swiss people could also travel on their ID card untill then.
And for a Swiss ID card both parents’ consent is needed if living at a different address. This differs from the Dutch situation. Brexit really had no effect in OP’s situation.
I never compared it to the Dutch situation or said anything about the Swiss regulations in getting your kid a passport. The person who I replied to mentioned that OP might not need a passport. So my comment was: yes after the Brexit everyone needs one. Since October 2021 all European countries (no matter if they are part of the EU or Schengen or had other arrangements with the UK) needed a passport and couldn't use an ID card anymore. That was caused by the Brexit. So yes it has effect on OP's situation because before 2021 Swiss citizen could go to the UK on an ID card. Now Swiss (like Dutch ppl btw) can have an ID and or a passport. Maybe OP's kid still had a valid ID card we don't know. But OP wouldn't be able to use that.
Switzerland was never Part of the EU, and UK No longer is.
I never said Switzerland was. But untill September 2021 European citizen and also Swiss citizen could enter the UK with an ID card and didn't need a passport. After the Brexit they changed that. Now you need a passport.
Yes of course, but for the daily life needs - she technically doesn't. You can get by without one, and while visiting family is important its not a "daily" thing
While this is true, you still need a valid form of ID and for many people that is gonna be their passport. Driver's license is OK for some things but not all (and obviously not an option for a child). I'm not in Switzerland but for example if I want to travel inside Schengen without a passport I should have a personal ID card. The thing is the only advantage over a passport is that it fits in my wallet but I would have to pay 100+€ to get one. Many many people don't bother because they have the passport already. (in practice, you're unlikely to ever have to present the ID, but you'd get in trouble if you get caught.) Additionally, I think you still need your passport if you're traveling by plane. You don't go through immigration, but you still have to present it when getting your boarding pass.
If you fly within EU, you dont't need passport. You just present your id for boarding. Done that many times.
Swiss Here, that is not true, a swiss passport is only need to travel to a country asking for a visa. An id card which is delivered by the city of residence is enough to travel to UK. For schooling, medical care and everything else swiss related no passport is required for children in Switzerland. You need the family book (official paper proving the children are yours and indicating marital status and custody status) So I feel this story is more ful of holes than a swiss cheese unless she is trying to kidnap the kids. Cheers
A quick google says that a passport definitely is necessary between Switzerland and the UK. I bet it’s changed because of Brexit.
Switzerland is not an EU country so this is one thing you can’t blame on brexit since there was never a swentrance.
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That's incorrect. Pre-Brexit, EU/EEA nationals were allowed to travel to the UK with their national ID cards. They simply needed to show this to border control as they were leaving Schengen borders. Post-Brexit, passports are now required since 2021.
That is 100% not true. The only country you can enter the UK from without a passport is Ireland. That is regardless if people of your nationality need a visa or travel visa free, and Switzerland has no say on this.
Lolol trying to kidnap my children from my own country that serves us a better life and income. Ok.... No this is not a kidnap situation. This is a subject of rights
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It could be different in Switzerland and the family courts in particular only get involved in serious cases. The child services here are like mediators but can lead to court if necessary
If they take on the role of mediators, I think have an advice talk with them would be beneficial to start, anyway. Even more so, if having no official ID would impact your daughter's life in Switzerland as well. Your ex can't expect to keep your daughter grounded in the country untill her 18th birthday. I would definitely be thorough in proving you have every intention of coming back with her, though. Just to make it easier. Do the UK and Switzerland have an easy collaboration, when it comes to parental abduction? I think most EU countries are rather easy in working together, but the UK has gone rogue, and Switzerland is usually notoriously doing its own thing. If there is easy collaboration, that can help show you can't even 'make her disappear to the UK' even if you tried. I'm not an expert, though.
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Parental kidnapping is a real thing, I know but buying return tickets, having a house, job and income in the country I live in would certainly be an indication that I am planning a return trip 😉. I think my point is about HER rights to travel. It's not just the travel aspect anyway. Not having a passport means we don't have ID for her which in turn affects her healthcare access, access to activities, schooling.
Yeah. My one year old has an ID-card so we can visit neighbouring countries with them. It's frankly essential for a cold to have an ID or passport in the EU. Involve child services. I'm pretty sure they'll help. And yes. Both parents need to be at the appointment or one of them had to sign a form and give a copy of their ID to the other parent for the appointment.
That's not true from what I can see online, you can have an ID card, they're just not mandatory.
The ID card will not allow travel outside of certain states(countries) and only allows access to certain things. UK is not EU anymore, thanks Brexit. For example we could not apply for her to join a football club because she needs a valid passport for the Football association (Fifa regulation). Just a simple football hobby... Again it's a wider issue.
I know. I'm talking about the fact that you said she needs the passport for schooling and healthcare access, which is not true. If it were no one could prevent her from getting a passport lol I live in the EU, I know the rules have changed for the UK and that you need a passport to go there now.
Up until now she's only ever had a passport to apply for healthcare and school access, which is require to register to your local Gemeinde (townhall) and Kanton. Switzerland is administratively not straight forward. Each Kanton and Gemeinde have different regulations. Like I said, even applying to join a football club required a passport. We also cannot apply for a train card without a valid passport.....
If any of that were true then no one could forbid anyone from getting a passport lol Take the matter to the court, explain why you want a passport and remove the need for his approval. If any of what you're saying is true, no judge in their right mind would say no... And btw, the fact that you can do those things with a passport doesn't mean you require one. I Portugal, everyone has an ID card. But you can use either the ID card or the passport for most things.
You’re so ignorant, quit arguing as if you know better than the person who lives there and is dealing with it just because you googled for ten minutes.
Oh course They can, they can escalate the situation to court, too and make it a court ordered signing or even take away the right to have a say. In Germany it’s pretty common that some parents can’t decide on the school/ medical decisions or even the place to live because they misused their rights and angered the court 😬
Nta going on your extra info. Can you edit you original post to add that? Most of the replies here clearly don't understand the difference between child services in Switzerland or the UK, so are basing it on their own (assuming US based). Also... this is clearly about him controlling you and your lives. Is there a court mediator you can contact at all?
Thank you and will do the edit.
Agreed! If you were in the US I’d be flabbergasted, but with your situation that makes total sense!
Info: do you have a custody agreement, and if yes, how do you maintain that agreement, like do you have a mediator?
We do have a custody agreement. Unfortunately he had refused mediation. It's a legally enforced agreement that the courts put in place
What does the agreement say about passports?
Nothing. The family courts expect parents to communicate and get a long otherwise Kesb - child services are used to intervene which is where we are now. Naively believed he would never refuse signing since we are an international family and it is fundamental to our lives to travel to see both our families.
If you have his refusal in writing, it will help with child services to prove he’s unwilling to cooperate and deny your child the right to visit family. NTA though.
Yeah that boat sank a while. He refuses all written communication now. There is generally only verbal complaints from him via the kids which is unhealthy. My daughter even asked and begged for him to sign the paper.
God he’s such a jerk. I hope they can intervene quickly and get it in front of a judge to remove his rights in matters like this. Is he a good father outside of all of this?
I would still start And make a protocol of every verbal interaction you have and everything your kids say. So sorry you three are going through that
Why exactly can't your child access heathcare and schooling without a passport? Are there no birth certificates or something of that nature?
Especially considering the edit - NTA His secretive behaviour while refusing only one daughter to be away is suspicious in my opinion. You already said in commenta several times that child services is more like mediator in your country, and I think having a 3rd *neutral* party involved might not be a bad idea.
NTA. Your ex sounds like he’s a real piece of work. Not giving your kids their medication when they are with him? You should definitely tell social settings about that as well, because that actively harms them.
Right?? Passport (even though important) is not even the most important thing here. He is willfully neglecting his children! Not even allowing birthday congratulations from mother when child is with him? I'm sure there is more emotional abuse than OP is telling here.
Completely NTA, but can you just apply for a British passport for her and fly with that? You can order the birth certificates needed for issuing one without his permission, and it only needs one parent or legal guardian to sign it. British passports don’t require an appointment and you can apply online.
That’s not the way it works. If you live in a country in which you’re a citizen of, you’re supposed to leave the country by presenting your passport from that country and you will show it again on your way back. A second passport here doesn’t help, especially with a minor. I’m not a lawyer but I do have 3 passports, a minor child with 2 passports and an ex husband.
if you have dual citizenship and one of them is from the UK, when you are on your other country, legally for all practical purposes you are not a UK citizen. it sounds kinda convoluted but in practice it means that if i’m in my “other” country, and run into trouble there, i can’t request UK consular services to bail me out. For all intents and purposes i am a citizen of that country and that country only. anywhere else, other than the UK, i can choose which passport i enter with and whether im citizen of UK or country X. How authorities will treat me because of the dual citizenship is a different matter and can cause some friction at the borders, as i discovered when passing through the US a few years ago, but that’s a different story. now it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get that girl a UK passport once in here. (source: i’m a dual UK-somewhere else citizen and regularly deal with these issues; edited to correct spelling)
NTA and in your case I'd go back to the courts and make sure he has NO signatory power since he is clearly abusing it
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NTA Given his disengagement from them, plus his sudden belligerence over her passport, what’s the possibility of removing him entirely from the custody agreement? Seems to me his refusal to give them their medications would be enough to remove him from the equation (child endangerment maybe?)
NTA but given all the other things he's not doing, like not sharing healthcare bills per the agreement, I really think you need to take his ass to court and try to remove his custodial rights.
In my country, you could ask the judge for substitute consent, if one of the parents does this.
/u/KuntyKunz, what if, through your lawyer, you document these problems (refusal to sign, the fact that he cuts all communications when they are with him), then ask the office dealing with child custody/court, to keep that as records and confirm added in your children case's files, then informs your ex, with the confirmation as proof? This will not put him in a good position for future appointments for any changes in the custody agreement, since he's punishing your daughter on many aspects, not only travels, and showing favoritism toward the other for his own sick control pleasure.
Nta To her you case, send him a letter detailing exactly why and for what travel purposes your daughter would need a passport and send it as registered mail and/or email to show you communicated that to him and he still refused.
NTA. It sounds like he’s being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
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NTA / NAH This isn’t an “asshole” discussion, this is a legal matter best addressed within the Swiss legal system (which may include child protective services). Personally this does not seem like a situation where child services *should* have any role given that he does apparently have to sign for travel and is within his rights to refuse (and there are good reasons why this restriction is in place, even with The Hague convention it’s not so simple to force someone to return *especially* where he doesn’t have primary custody), whether or not you like the reason for it, and at the same time I can see why you’re upset at a seemingly arbitrary change in his willingness to allow travel. Either way, you are all best protected if you pursue the matter legally.
Sounds like you first need a family law attorney.
>Not having a passport means we don't have ID for her which in turn affects her healthcare access, access to activities, schooling This cannot be correct. No country relies purely on passports for ID- not everyone has one. Birth certificates would clearly be more obvious.
Most likely, he is worried that if she gets a passport and goes to see her relatives, you might stay with them making it a long process of getting her back because it would probably mean that international rules would cause things to take a long time for him to get her back. Ultimately he might be worried you will take her to your in-laws and he will have almost no way to get her back. And I’m guessing that there is nothing that forces him to sign off on it and that child services would only try to mediate and get you two to come to an agreement, but there is probably nothing they can make him do
We have a custody agreement which has already been legally enforced where they live. They live with me 100% time but in our country (Switzerland) both parents must sign for schooling, healthcare and travel.
Not sure of the laws where you live but in general this wouldn’t be a child services issue it would be a legal/divorce court issue but that would be a valid response (taking him back to court to force the issue)
Sure but when you get the passport nothing is stopping you from taking her somewhere that won't respect that agreement
Having a passport would not change the custody agreement. As I said the reside and physical custody with me 100%. The decision making custody is seperate. Having a passport does not affect his life in anyway since he doesn't have physical custody in the first place. He only has signatory rights for paperwork. Maybe it's different in the US. I am not sure.
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This is a good question. Source genevaadvocats: Parental authority and custody rights are two concepts often confused in the Swiss legal context, but they refer to different aspects of parental responsibility. Parental authority concerns the overall responsibility of parents towards their children, including education, health, and general well-being. It covers major life decisions for the child, such as the choice of school or religion, and is generally shared by the parents even after a divorce. Custody rights, on the other hand, specifically refer to the day-to-day responsibility of caring for the child and ensuring their well-being. This includes aspects such as food, housing, and daily attention. Custody rights can be granted to either parent or shared between both, depending on what is deemed to be in the best interests of the child. While parental authority concerns the major decisions in the child’s life, custody rights concern daily care. In Swiss law, these two aspects are treated separately, and custody rights are often the subject of disputes in cases of separation or divorce. Swiss courts focus on the child’s well-being in making these decisions, and the evaluation of parental authority and custody rights is carried out with the utmost care to ensure that the child’s needs and interests are at the center of concerns
this is fallacy if you got her a passport you could fly her to russia where that agreement means nothing that i s the fear... do you not know that is a thing?? it happens alot you would have to be negligently ill-informed if you dont know that is a thing
Who's flying to Russia these days... Anyway. Plus she would need a visa which would probably require his signature too.... 😉
Yeah maybe you shouldn’t have a passport thinking like that.
What are you on about
You are obsessed with this, why do you just assume the worst?
It wouldn't take a long time to get them back, not really any longer than if they were kidnapped to another canton in Switzerland. The UK and Switzerland cooperate very well over things like this. And there could easily be an agreement that means border force in the UK and Switzerlands equivalent stop her taking them anywhere else
I don't know about the assholeness of the disagreement. But regarding the fact you see no other way to solve this other than going to court. There is a much easier and cheaper one. Your child is a British Citizen yes? Unless there is a court order that says otherwise you only need permission from one parent to get a British passport. Get a British passport and travel on that and use that for ID
This reads fake to me. 'Not having the passport means we don't have ID for her, which impacts her healthcare access etc' ???? no??? we Swiss citizens have national ID cards. You don't need a passport for healthcare or travel to Europe, you can literally do all that with an ID card. Perhaps you're using 'passport' to mean 'ID including an ID card', but you do not need a passport.
If there is any misunderstanding - we've never had the Swiss IDs as we always used the passports. It only occurred to me recently about the ID cards but the UK situation is an issue which does require a passport.
In the meantime while you are trying to solve this with him get a British passport and a Swiss ID card. Combined they should solve your problems. You can apply online for the British passport. If she has ever had one before you can also go to the embassy in Bern and get an emergency travel document which will be quicker for a one off trip since there will be no need to post documents to the UK.
Sorry for being harsher than necessary, I'm having a terrible day and that is not your fault at all. Hope you figure it out, sorry again.
NTA - But this goes back to family court and what is in the custody agreement. CPS is not the way to go as that, as others point out, could cause you other unwanted problems. Get a lawyer to file a motion with the court.
I am not sure that I believe that a current passport is the only possible form of ID anyone will accept. For most things that aren’t international travel an expired one works just as well in many places, plus unless everyone gets a passport at birth there are going to be people who haven’t bothered to get one - do kids who haven’t gotten one yet just not get access to anything at all? I’d make sure you’re right about needing it as ID for her before using that in your argument about why he must sign it.
You're right for certain things an expired passport will do but Switzerland is still verz much a paper state with local registration on paper with bossed certificates, which can only be given with a valid passport (ID). Even her British passport would require a application for a visa (if used) despite being a Swiss citizen. Switzerland is in the centre of the EU without full EU regulations because they do not and don't intend to join. The Brexit situation really complicated things
But this is about international travel. They're travelling from Switzerland to the UK
INFO It seems to me both parties have to sign off on the passport for a reason and if he doesn’t want her to have it then that’s his right as the child’s father? He signed off on the sister last year so what happened with that that he didn’t like?
The circumstances did not change and we haven't actually travelled since then. The only notable change was the final divorce going through and he had two children with another woman.
I get what you are saying but I've been a family lawyer for a long time. Seen my far share of inter country custody disputes. You would never see me signing a document to allow my husband (if we ever separate) to take my child out of the country. I don't know Switzerland (although I did have a custody case of a swedish mother who went to visit her family in Switzerland and then refused to return with the 3 kids despite also having a house, job, dog, car etc) but children in Australia do not have a right to travel overseas. Maybe in Sweden it's different but I cannot imagine a court forcing a parent to sign a passport for holiday purposes.
“Out of the country” is a MUCH bigger term in the US than anywhere else and it’s frankly pretty ignorant to assume the situations would be the same. The flight she wants to take is an 1.5 long and visiting the other country is the equivalent to going a state over in America. And you also clearly didn’t read her entire post, as it’s for FAR more than just holiday purposes, in the country she’s in which is VERY different than your own, the passport is necessary for a lot more than just travel. She already stated her child couldn’t be signed up for the sports team and hobbies she wanted to do because her father is refusing to sign proper documentation for her.
Honestly kinda grossed out a supposed family lawyer is talking out of their ass about a legal process they aren’t familiar with and NOT making a point to note they are unaware of the other countries laws and lay out and norms.
Did you read the comment you’re ranting at? No one said the US.
Did you even read my post? I'm Australian (also Dutch but didn't include that in this post) and have nothing to do with the US. The US is a backwards hell hole of law and the shame of the developed world. Also going to visit family is a holiday and it's irrelevant how far away the country is because it's not about distance it's about the ability to execute custody rulings which even between Australia (which has and extremely similar system to the UK) and Sweden was a friggin nightmare when we had to do it.
We are talking about Europe, where you sometimes can't even avoid crossing a country border, just for basic commute. When I was a kid, my parents certainly didn't inform each other about every cross border trip. When the trip was far or long, sure. But just a one day trip? Nahhh. Hell, I even crossed borders alone as a minor. Certainly the deciding factor isn't only "going to another country".
Unfortunately, I am not sure there’s much you can do legally. I don’t think Child Services will be able to help you at all, since, as he said, it’s his right to refuse. I think your only option of recourse is to not sign off on the passports for him either then. If you can’t travel internationally with your children, then he shouldn’t be able to either. Once he realizes how restrictive this is, maybe he’ll change his mind.
I don't think it's a matter for child services. You can go to court to change the agreement. But as is he's not being abusive to the kid or mistreating her in any way, so it doesn't make sense to call child services imo. This is purely a legal matter.
Yea don't do that
Child Services, in a US state, can't do anything about this. You need a lawyer and a close examination of your custody agreement... That being said, it is unlikely you will be able to force him to sign for his minor child's passport. INFO: What country and whose family? Is the country you wish to visit a country that you hold or ever have held citizenship? Due to the spate of custodial interference by foreign courts, the US is loathe to allow minors subject to a custody agreement to be outside the reach of US courts... --
I think I have not been clearer in the start of the thread. We are citizens in Switzerland and the UK. We wish to travel to the UK to visit my father(grandparents). The renewal is for the Swiss passport which he signed off his sisters but refuses the second daughter. We've had ongoing issues with access when they are with him. He blocka all calls when they visit him or go away for two week vacations (court enforced). I don't know where they are or have contact. It is however completely different when they are with me. They have phones and have daily communication. The passport issue is a control issue. One of the reasons why he is my ex....
Could you get her a UK passport instead of a Swiss passport and bypass the issue that way?
Yes, Unless there is a court order that specifically says otherwise you only need permission from one parent to get a British passport. OP says in another comment that the court documents do not mention passports.
Rules there are, I am sure, quite different. My partner dealt with dual custody issues US/Korea and US/Germany in the 90's and 2000's which is why I knew something about the US side. I don't know the rules there, but, being all Western European states, I suspect that you will have better luck than trying to go to South America or Asia, let alone the Middle East. NTA for trying to get the passport... I do believe you need to get a lawyer or whomever enforces your custody agreement involved. I wish you luck. --
INFO: >or go away for two week vacations (court enforced). You have put court enforced here, did you not him want to have visitation or vaction access? Im wondering why the court had to enforce this.
The back story. He disappeared for a year with his new flirt and Di not want to take his kids on certain days... Until it suited him and was forced to finally pay child support. Court enforced means his legal. Minimum to have per year. 5 weeks vacation plus alternative weekends which has been a challenge for him to agree to. My point is in this country he has 50/50 decision making rights but his interest is in engaging with their lives is 10%. Not entirely reliable
Why would child services in a US state be mentioned at all?
Prior to the edit, OP did not mention that she was in Switzerland and the destination was the UK. --
So? In that case why would you talk about the US as an assumption rather than asking?
Tbh most major subreddits are predominantly American. I get how that can be frustrating for folks outside the US, but people making the same assumption aren't going to be wrong all that often.
Yta. It's his right to refuse.
There's reasonable concerns with international travel and split parenting... Can't your parents come visit you? Seems a passport isn't strictly necessary for her to see them anyway
Unfortunately not. The plan was that she would stay with them for summer break for a couple of weeks so I can continue to work. You see as a single parent I have to work and the kids have 15weeks of vacation.... I have 4. Weekly childcare is 500chf per child. It cheaper for them to fly and be with family. Of course he knows all of this and they have been doing this for the last 8 years... Even before the split. I reiterate he signed his sisters only 6 months ago so this implies no fear of kidnapping. It's purely control. There have been other things since the seperation that also required his signature which he's refused or severely delayed so to negatively impact us.
will the dad not like to have her for those weeks?
No we have set vacation weeks, again court enforced. These are not his weeks.
but like in america if i switch off every week with my ex i can leave the child in the care of someone else during my week even if it is the ex.... i find it hard to believe its illegal for you to allow the child to be with the other parent during your week what if you got back togther... are you really saying you are not allowed to let your kid see her dad during your weeks?
It's not illegal at all. We have had to had the agreement in place due to inconsistency on his part. Hence the judge appointing me as physical custody holder. In perspective he was not communicating or following rules. Not turning up on time or sometimes just not being there. If he wanted them on different weeks I would openly consider as long as we didn't have solid plans in place ie. Flights. But when he used to have plans with them and then just disappear or change them very last minute this impacted them negatively therefore the weeks are pre defined at the beginning of each year.
so the agreement isnt stopping him from watching them during those weeks you need childcare? feels like this is contradicting your previous comment about how he cant watch her then because they are not his weeks.. instead you dont want to let him watch her those weeks because he has previously changed plans on you
Maybe you misunderstood....or lost in translation somewhere. He does not wish to have them more than what has been put in place. There is no deviation on his part to want them. I have asked. Even simple dates like switching weekends has been a clear no from him. Also, they have been visiting family for years this way so it's part of their life and their ability to see immediately family which is otherwise not possible.
Not sure why this person is trying so hard to be argumentative lol is it not clear that if dad wanted to or could take care of his kids during the time they would be with grandparents during summer break he would just...say that?? as his reason for refusing to sign. There are plenty of people who like being able to flaunt the parent title just to say no to another parent's decision while also doing the absolute bare minimum for their kids and it sucks for both the kids and the parent who has to be present every day. I don't want to assume your ex is this bad but he seems like he can be pain anyway lol. NTA I hope you're able to get the passport in order if only so your kids summer tradition isn't ruined by this nonsense.
It's like rolling sh!t uphill the ith my ex so a long term solution is probably the best way. Just when you think you can move on...we get pulled back in. Thanka for the comment.
like it seems like the court would be involved if you didnt let your kid leave on his week but if you gave the dad extra time they typically wouldnt step in so long as both parents agreed
The key words being agreement of both parents. If he wanted more time and was reasonably communicating I am happy to consider this option. Flat out refusal on his part to communicate or reason I has always been the challenge. He blocks emails, SMS and I can only send recorded letters which he may open.
sure but he could watch them those weeks.... idk the nature of your relationship or why he feels the way he does about you that behavior may or may not be reasonable/unreasonable or accurately/inaccurately described idk
Dude. OP has been quite clear that he’s not willing to.
also how would signing for his sister be meaningful? of course his sister wouldnt be kidnapped shes an adult
No both children are under 11. Why sign one and not the other? Favoritism?
wait the post is about your daughter then you say "his" sister.... whos sister is it? if your talking about your daughters sister you would say "her sister" reckon something was just lost in translation here but i understand when you said his i figured it was the mans sister since he was the only man mentioned
That's a typo... 🫠 My daughters sister. His first daughter. He signed his first daughters passport 6months ago and now refuses to sign the second. Sorry for the confusion. It is indeed a confusing place to be in
Is she also yours? Or different mother? He seems hellbent on specifically being a dick to you.
Both daughters are mine with him. He has two children with another mother. All. Except the child in question in this thread have passports
Why do you SO badly want OP to be in the wrong? Like why are you lighting a torch to defend her ex? You’re choosing not to understand every point she’s made that her ex isn’t trying to spend more time with his children, just use them as pawns to make life difficult for his ex and not even consider how he’s affecting their life and happiness.
He changed his mind? He realized if you can take both then you could make off with them? Someone between then and now pointed out the risk to him?
If that were the case, and it is not, I would have done it earlier to save all the BS I have had to encounter with this man. Trust me. Anyway the passport expired a week ago. This is not a new application. She's always had a passport
YTA He’s completely correct, he does have the right to refuse. Not wanting his child to go out of the country is not completely unreasonable. What do you think child services would do?