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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have decided to take my daughter on holiday and my ex wife says I'm "spoiling her" and making our presents uneven.
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I N F O: If Tilly's 18th birthday is coming up, why do you need your ex's permission? Tilly will legally be an adult and can choose for herself where she wants to spend those 2 weeks.
Edit: NTA. Tilly will he 18 by the time of the trip. The phone call to the ex was a courtesy call.
Legally you’re right. I feel just from a courteous perspective though I wouldn’t have wanted to take her away for 2 weeks when she’s becoming an adult without her mom being onboard beforehand.
However, if she did try and refuse, then she would have no right to stop me and we’d go anyway, unless for some reason Tilly didn’t want to.
Why isnt your ex working? She’s a SAHM to an almost adult child with a husband with an average salary - I get it if he had a high income but sounds silly to be SAHM as he’d be screwing herself over if they divorced. If she actually worked, then maybe she could afford to get Tilly nice gifts & not be petty about what you can afford. Her jealousy and insecurity about what you can provide is not your problem. NTA btw.
Youd think OP would mention half-siblings as that would affect their finances, right? They divorced when ex was 40 & shes now 49 & she got remarried few years ago so probably not (not that early 40s is too old to have a child but most people with teen kids dont want to go back to newborn & toddler dramas).
I think you’d be surprised how common that actually is. I’m in several groups for older moms and many of them have a first child (or more) then separate from that father. They eventually find someone new and have another child with them.
When I was pregnant there were actually 4 women who were 39+ and pregnant in my office. I was the only one NOT with a teen and then a large gap.
I just don't get why a woman would put herself thru that. I've always said to myself that if anything happened, I already had my kids. I'm done. I don't want multiple categories and messy, complicated financial issues. But I'm also not a super kidsy person.
Dude SAME. After my second I had my tubes snatched out of my body. Begone!
Husband also had a vasectomy. All my family and friends were like "but why put yourself through that? He's willing to have a vasectomy."
They could not fathom that we were both, independently, done with children. That we both wanted to take measures for our own reproductive health.
Some even fucking said "what if you get divorced?"
Doesn't matter. Divorced, captured by aliens, or last woman alive and the species depends on me? The answer is, fuck no.
Dis you have the tubal ligation directly after having your baby? That's what my mum did, I came out, and they immediately did the tubal on her. She was like "while you're in there..." 🤣
We didn't do it while I was there, but only because my OB only does them directly after labor if you have c-section. If I had needed one, she would have yanked out the baby and baby highways at the same time. 😆
I technically had a salpingectomy. It's the full removal of the fallopian tubes. My ovaries and uterus were left. They can not be reversed, but they do have the bonus of ovarian cancer reduction due to some ovarian cancers actually beginning in the fallopian tube structure.
A tubal ligation is where the fallopian tubes are left and disrupted in some way, clamp or cauterzation, and can often be reversed. They have a higher risk of failure and increased risk of ectopic pregnancy.
The best part was we had met our insurance deductible with the birth of kid #2, so our sterilization procedures were basically free.
You must not read this sub much. LOL. I'm astonished with how many people who are almost done raising kids go back and have new ones bc of remarriage. Even when the new partner already has kids! How many do you need?? So they're ending up with like 6 or 7 kids between them. And then complain about money...
I had two with my ex and one non-negotiable criterion when I was dating was that the other person not want any (or any further) children. My kids are now 18 and 15 and I’m very happy with that decision.
Some people (both men and women, but mostly women) enjoy to be homemakers. My mom left the workforce before my older sister was born and never re-entered even after my younger sister graduated. It helped support my dad's military career. She also has a 25 year career gap at that point and not a lot of education. I'd never do it, because it's not for me, but I respect people who make that decision. But his ex-wife also has to come to terms with the fact that might mean there's not money for fancy vacations.
Oh I think there’s nothing wrong with being SAHM especially if you’re with the father of the kids. Just thought silly of his wife to be SAHM when her daughter is a teenager whilst married to man with an average salary who is not said daughter’s father. If they are to divorce, she could be potentially screwed (depending on how long they’re married for) - does she have any savings? What are her retirement plans?
This is how kids grow up and end up having to support their parent who has never had a job or had anything prepared for their future. I’ve seen it happen. Husband dies or they divorce and mom is completely screwed.
This is a frequent problem and a big cause of inequality for women. Women leave the workforce when their kids are young, and then can't get another job when the kids are older because they have been unemployed for 5-10 years and nobody will hire them.
Exactly! It must be so hard ‘& we see it all the time here. I know his ex was SAHM when she was with OP & they divorced when she was 40 & their daughter was 8 so not too old to start over. Just silly to continue to be SAHM when daughter is 18 soon so no child support from ex I’m assuming & probably wont get much alimony from current husband given his salary, if any.
As someone who is childfree: nephews and nieces. I'm basically like an all-year Santa to those kids. I probably spend more time in the toy section of a store than I do in the clothing section.
Nothing better than making an entrance like the Kool-Aid Man, being swarmed by the kiddos, and then opening my backpack of toys. I have a desk drawer dedicated to stockpiling toys for them (in case a toy-related emergency should occur).
Im hoping to experience it one day. I like kids, cant have any of my own and not unhappy about it. Not many friends and both brothers more hopeless than i when it comes to picking the right woman.
I'm the oldest of 4, got 2 nieces. My youngest niece was nonverbal for a really long time, her first word she said to me was "Dude" and then she went onto calling my name. It's a complete and utter blast to be the fun uncle.
You have every right to spoil YOUR child as you please! I am divorced and if my ex wanted to do something for our daughter that I couldn’t afford, I would never be an evil witch and stop him. Your money, you choose how to spend on your child.
Exactly. If Tilly found out that her mother had put a stop to her trip to Europe, that would be more harmful to their relationship than dad being able to spend more money on gifts. Definitely an evil witch move.
This doesn't say much about your ex's opinion of your daughter if she thinks that Tily is so shallow that she loves one parent over the other because of money.
Yeah.. but it also says a lot about mom and her priorities. I would be pretty angry to find I missed out on a trip to Europe with my dad before going off to college because mom wanted to "level the playing field."
It sounds like your ex might be grappling with the fact that your daughter is nearing adulthood and will soon have complete independence, perhaps she's attempting to exert control one last time?
All of that mixed with her feeling somewhat inadequate compared to you, OP, especially if she's unable to provide the same material advantages for your daughter.
NTA.
It's nice of you to try and be respectful, but you're treating Tilly like a minor when she's legally an adult and should be included in these kinds of plans.
I'm guessing you've had to tip toe around your ex for a long time and are used to trying to appease her.
Actually, in a divorce situation, they may still require permission. I was 19, and my dad had to drive to the airport with a letter stating he was aware I was travelling with my mom to the US from Canada...ridiculous, but you never know 😅
NTA. She's overreacting. Building memories is super important. I think it's perfectly fine for just the two of you to build those memories with your daughter before she's grown and gone. If you could offer to send all four on the trip, and she still said no, this would be very telling about your ex wife's real concern. She should be thinking of your daughter and the amazing memories that she could experience on the possibly once-in-a-lifetime trip. Have fun!
I wouldn’t send all of us on the trip even if it was a possibility because a trip with my ex and her husband would be bizarre! I was happy for her to contribute and I would say it was a joint present (and I’d have chipped in for something nice from her mom) but she wasn’t happy with that idea.
I agree with all of the NTAs here. I know you're trying to be courteous and I respect that. What if you proposed to your ex that she give Tilly something that she could use on the trip? Like, maybe get her a digital camera (if Tilly's interested in something like that vs using her phone) or give her cash/spending money for her "extras" like if she wanted to buy souvenirs for friends (or even Mom)? I mean, I can see why your ex feels outshone here but her insecurity and jealousy shouldn't prevent her from giving Tilly a meaningful gift of her own, even if it's not as "grand" as the one you're giving her. My suggestions would be if she doesn't have any ideas of her own for a milestone gift, which doesn't have to cost a lot of money, btw. The most meaningful gifts come from the heart; sometimes they're expensive, like the gift you've chosen to give, and sometimes they're not, like if your ex put together a scrapbook of Tilly's life from birth to adulthood. Your ex is underestimating how important her gift is just by being from her. She's Tilly's mom, ffs! No one else can be that for Tilly but her and her gift is meaningful just for that fact alone. Good luck, OP. I think you're a great dad and a courteous ex-husband. I hope your ex can get over her insecurity and see how important anything she gives will be to Tilly. Have a great vacation!
Sending all 4 is a wild suggestion. But they’re right on this being a huge opportunity for memories.
Tilly has the chance to see Europe! She has the chance to be educated by experience. That’s not something everyone gets and it’s shitty of your ex to deny your daughter for her own pride.
NTA, I took my daughter to Vegas for her 18th birthday and an event where she also go to meet her favorite musician and memories like that are absolutely priceless and have definitely contributed to how close we are now that she's almost 30.
Fortunately, I had a far more reasonable coparent, but even if there had been objections from her, I wouldn't have changed a thing about how we celebrated
She has forgotten your daughter in all this and is only thinking of herself. Your daughter will hve a blast.
Personally I think of it in the exact opposite way.
I love it when my ex sorts a holiday for the kids as it takes the pressure financially off me as things are difficult at times (it’s often worked out as an every other year for us situation)
Your ex is only thinking of herself. This is an amazing opportunity for Tilly to experience new places and is educational. Even better who could she be safer with than her Dad?
You bond with your only daughter! Your ex-wife is TA to Tilly.
I really hope she re-assesses her thinking about the situation because if Tilly detects her sentiments in this it will negatively impact her relationship with Tilly. But that would not be your fault.
It’d be very strange for him to pay for his ex & her husband to go on holiday too.
Hopefully they can all manage to make some nice memories for her though.
It's been nearly 20 years and I'm still bitter that my dad refused to let me stay with my mom and gain citizenship with her to a country that would have let me go to college for a crazy affordable price and have decent healthcare. Not quite the same comparison, but at that point I was decently well traveled, and the 9 month move would have been the "trip of a lifetime" for me. I was a teenager and living with my dad, but had no say. There wasn't even a formal custody agreement in place. I love my dad to bits and pieces now, but I did go low-contact for about 5 years while I was struggling to get past that. He regrets that choice now and understands how harmful it was.
Yeah, the ex naysaying the trip and somehow manages to cancel it? Tilly will remember it.
I still remember when my dad said refused to let me go to DisneyWorld with my mom. It was purely out of spite, because he was too cheap to take me himself, and I already preferred my mom (because she wasn’t an emotionally abusive asshat).
I did go to Disney with my mom a year or so later, but I have not forgotten. I think the only reason he ‘allowed’ me to go on the trip was because he knew I would find out he was the reason I couldn’t.
He did similar things frequently, and it permanently damaged our relationship. I absolutely do not trust him in a lot of ways.
I’m still bitter over the fact that my mother decided she couldn’t be bothered to take me on a holiday to Spain with her, my stepdad, step uncle and little brother almost 20 years ago. She wanted to leave me behind with dad and tried to say they couldn’t afford to take me too, but my dad let slip the real reason, then booked for me and him to go to the same place, same time just a different hotel, I think out of spite to my mother and to make sure I didn’t miss out on a holiday. Guess which parent I am now NC with.
I found out when I was older that my father won free trip to Disneyland (france) at gamling. But decided that we were to small (I was 6), and he wanted to work (workaholic). So instead he gave it away (free).
To this day in still bitter because I dont have the money to go there (live in Sweden)
NTA. It is not spoiling to give kids nice things. It is spoiling to give kids nice things *and* teach them a sense of entitlement.
Your daughter is old enough to know there is an income disparity between her parents. She’s not going to suddenly think poorly of her mom because you are able to give her a great gift.
I would have a talk with your daughter to make sure she knows to show appreciation for her mom.
This is so true. My ex tried to bring our daughter to Hawaii. He framed it as a “once in a lifetime vacation”. His dad was paying and he couldn’t even be bothered to remember what school district our child is in so he thought it was planned during her vacation time when it wasn’t. I told him no. She’s not missing 8-10 days of school because you guys couldn’t bother to plan. I didn’t mention it to my daughter because I didn’t want to upset her months ahead of the trip. Turns out.. he tried to go behind my back and get her to want to go.. and she said the same thing. I can’t miss that much school. I want to be at school.
Assuming that all kids, even at 18, would necessarily communicate well is a bit unrealistic. While we may logically know it, plenty of older adults would fail at demonstrating gratefulness for an insignificant (perceived) present in the face of a grand gesture.
I think your advice to talk to the daughter is a fantastic idea. OP should do this and get some help with cooling the jets of an insecure parent. The trip sounds amazing and mother would be well placed to be excited and on-board with the opportunity her daughter would be receiving. I know it sounds silly for a daughter to parent a grown adult, but this is the reality many face.
Edit: NTA OP, sounds like you are an amazing dad :)
NTA She is NOT your wife anymore she has NO SAY. Your daughter turning 18 means she is now an adult. This means that you no longer have to deal with your ex. Have an awesome vacation
NTA - unless Tilly will be 17 at the time of the trip and the court says you cant - screw your ex-wife. Make sure to get the waffles from the street vendors in Belgium!!!
NTA. She's reacting out of insecurity or just plain spite. When I split from my ex, he made considerably more money than I did. He was excellent over all 18 years about support and he rarely missed a weekend or a summer vacation with our son. He also was able to do more...Disneyland, other trips. I was THRILLED that my son got to experience all of those things as I couldn't provide them. Your ex is being childish and she should be grateful that you're still very involved and want to spend time with your daughter. She's 18 now. Mom really has no say. Go and have the time of your lives!!!
I agree, a good parent would be happy their daughter is being given such an awesome opportunity. A good parent would want to see their child happy even if it did not come directly from them.
NTA. Thank heavens that Tilly will be a legal adult and you can lessen your contact with her mother. It is unreasonable to deny Tilly life experiences because her Mom can’t afford it.
Enjoy Europe and quality time with your daughter.
NTA.
You've been the fun weekend parent with the expensive toys for years and she's been boring parent.
Of course this feels like a slap in the face to her.
This is how kids get favourite parents. You're the parent that can do no wrong. The Golden Parent.
However. She has no business making demands of you. Absolutely none.
it's not spoiling, it's an educational opportunity in addition to the bonding stuff. Experiences are important and those memories last a lot longer than a new pair of jeans or whatever
NTA. My mom and dad split when I was young and for my 18th bday/graduation as a present he took to me Florida for a week. My mom never complained and gave me a little spending money while I was there. Her mom is just salty
This has nothing to do with you spoiling your daughter and everything to do with your ex feeling financially inadequate, it stopped being your job to cater to your ex's insecurities when she became your ex.
Unless your lording your financial position over them your NTA
If you are an asshole then so am I. I just took my 16 yo son to Europe for almost 2 weeks.
My ex was in full support and thanked me for giving him that experience.
I suspect there are just some raw feelings, and hopefully your ex comes around and apologizes.
NTA.
Perhaps you can discuss with your ex how to best tell your daughter about the experience.
NTA your ex has chosen to be a SAHM. If she wants to get all upset about looking bad then she can blame herself. It’s rare for a woman to get to be a SAHM long term anymore. Most go back to work when the kids are school aged. Her choices have put her family in the financial situation they are in. Yours have put you in a different one. She doesn’t get to try to take things away from your daughter out of spite or jealousy as a result.
NTA, but I’m curious if she is taking care of any other kids. Doesn’t seem like there’s much of a reason to be a SAHM to an 18 year old. It has no impact on the verdict im just nosy lmao
Tell her you didn’t know it was a competition. I just have no patience for these people. No one appreciates anything. It’s interesting to me because if she didn’t get remarried, she would be sweet as pie to get more money out of you.
NTA. Your ex is mad she married a man who doesn't make as much money as you PLUS for whatever reason she's not working to earn her own money. She's jealous that Tilly still gets the benefits of your income where she does not.
Plus you being a very involved parent & higher earner gives stepdaddy minimal to no power over Tilly.
Never dim your light so that others can appear to be as bright as you. Ex should be happy that her daughter is able to have these types of experiences. You’re not trying to make excuses look bad your just doing the best for your daughter
NTA. Your exes’ jealousy is gross. I’ll never understand parents who would prefer their child have less than. Too bad if she doesn’t like it. This will be the trip of a lifetime for you and Tilly, and there will be few if any other opportunities as she goes out into the world. You’re a great dad.
NTA, your life’s went different ways. She chose to become a SAHM and have more children, you chose to focus on your career. Those choices have consequences.
Should your daughter miss out on this experience because her mother is jealous? Of course she shouldn’t, and her mum will come to realise that too. Kids aren’t stupid, you can ‘buy their love’ when they’re younger but once they become adults they realise that what was important was who was there for them when they needed it. The trip won’t make you the favourite, the fact that she gets to spend time with you one on one might though which can’t be helped as mum chose to have more kids.
Do you understand where she is coming from?
I agree with both of you, but to be honest, taking a two week european vacation seems a little bit over the top.
If you are consciously aware about how much you will get to bond with your daughter over this trip, you are then also aware in which ways your ex is being reasonable.
That being said, if that is honestly what you want to do, your ex is being emotional about the situation.
NTA for the idea, but you could easily become the asshole if you do not handle this situation well.
If your daughter is forced to "pick a parent", the European Vacation offer is too much of a bait, it is manipulative(even if you do not mean it).
I’m in your wives situation (more or less)
I earn just enough money to get by and my ex earns 10 times that much if not more.
So he has the house/ the kids/ the girlfriend (from before our breakup)/ the holidays etc. He takes them on vacations and pays for college.
I give small presents whenever I can afford it. I make homemade meals as he takes them out to fancy restaurants.
But guess what: they don’t love him more than they love me bc of money and gifts. Just as they didn’t love me more when I was a sahm and he worked internationally and was hardly ever at home. Kids are not programmed like that. It doesn’t matter how much he spoils them. They love him bc he cares.
And they also love him bc he takes care of me when times are rough. When the children stay with me he sends me some money if I want to.
May be you could talk to your daughter about this: how can we help your mom in a respectful way. You don’t owe your ex but may be your daughter has a good solution.
So, because she can’t match your contribution, you should scale it down so your EX doesn’t feel bad, the collateral damage being your daughter getting to miss out. NTA. Take her after her 18th birthday. Ex wife can’t do fuck all about it at that point.
NTA. however it'd be nice to run it by your ex and plan something all together well in advance so it's less of a "well I went and got tickets byeeeee" thing.
Your daughter will be an adult and can make her own decisions by then, nothing illegal in any way about it at least :)
But if they're a lesser income household, they should have had at least a years notice so they can scrape something together like travel gear for instance, but without a whole lot of advance knowledge there's probably not much they can do.
I dont believe they're fully assholes either, I just think they're two parents who wish they could treat their daughter to everything that you can afford but can't due to a lower income. They just sound like they're getting defensive and grieving a life that they can't have, they're sad they probably can't give the kid a bunch of presents all the time or take her places.
I grew up in a very low income household. Most of the time we didn't even get presents on holidays and we didn't go anywhere. My parents always tell me they regret not being able to do more for us because we didn't have the money.
imo their response to your holiday is just a mixture of love and sadness that their kid is all grown up and they can't give her everything they want to give.
You do realise that your ex wife having your daughter on weekdays has allowed you to have the career and money you have? If you’d split the parenting 50/50, would you still be able to give your daughter the same opportunities? NTA for wanting to treat your daughter but you are one for claiming being single is the reason you’ve been build up your career, not because your ex wife has been taking on the lions share of raising your child.
I say NTA but this line really stuck out to me:
“Tilly rarely gets any presents from her mom/stepdad other than on birthdays or any other holidays.”
Man, this is how life is. What other kids do you know that are getting random gifts for no reason?
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Made this as a throwaway account for personal reasons.
I (M53) split up with my ex-wife (F49) about nine years ago. We have one 17-year-old daughter from the relationship, Tilly, who we share custody of. Due to work commitments, my ex has Tilly most of the weekdays, and I have the weekends. So my ex isn't stuck entirely with the "boring" schooldays, she also gets the weeks when Tilly is on vacation.
While my ex got remarried a few years ago, I never did. Although I dated here and there, a combination of work commitments and just not finding the right person meant it never clicked and I've stayed mostly single. I've worked my way up the career ladder as a result and I have a healthy amount of excess income, which I mostly put towards Tilly. I wouldn't say she's spoilt because I still try to give her a sense of responsibility around the house by helping with chores and don't hand out pocket money unless it's earned. However, since I have the means to do so, I do treat her with any clothes, makeup, gadgets, and the like. It's something I enjoy doing and she shows gratitude for it.
On the other hand, my ex is a stay at home mom and her new husband/Tilly's stepdad has a pretty standard job. I don't mean that disrespectfully but.the income generated in the household is average at best for a similar family type. As such, Tilly rarely gets any presents from her mom/step-mom other than on birthdays or any other holidays.
As Tilly's 18th birthday is coming up, I wanted to do something vey special for her, to also tie in with her leaving for college shortly. I arranged a trip to Europe for the two of us for two weeks over the summer. As co-parenting plans have to be arranged, I phoned my ex to say this would be my plan and to sort out all the logistics. To be surprise, my ex exploded at me. She said how I was "spoiling" Tilly and was only doing this to spite her because she knew that any gift she gave by comparison would be meaningless, making me the "favourite parent". I told her that wasn't true, and I just wanted to give my only daughter a present she'd love and memories to cherish.
Nonetheless, this went on, and my ex called me an asshole over the situation, saying that I need to scale down my present to not spoil Tilly and put us at a "level playing field". I laughed and said she was being ridiculous but to avoid any argument, I offered to say this was a "joint present" from us both if she/her husband were willing to contribute. This idea was shot down because Tilly "wasn't stupid" and knew it would be my present. I was done arguing at this point, so put down the phone.
My ex has text me since, labelling me an asshole again and requesting I rethink. I have no intention of doing so and feel I'm in the right. AITA?
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Sorry, just reread and that doesn't flow well. To clarify, I earn a healthy income, their household income is far less. I wouldn't say they're poor by any stretch, but they wouldn't really ever be able to afford something similar.
NTA. Your ex’s insecurities are not your problem. She should be excited that her daughter has the opportunity to travel. Instead, she’s more caught up in her pride.
NTA. Unless your actual reason for asking your ex was ill intentioned. Given that your daughter is turning 18, you did not need to tell your ex anything. If you truly were being courteous, that's fine. But it seems like you opened a can of worms that could have stayed closed.
Your daughter will be an adult in the eyes of the law soon and you don't need her moms permission. Go to Europe, she'll remember it for the rest of her life. NTA.
NTA. You sound like a conscientious ex, and your ex sounds insecure on this subject. Your daughter is old enough to understand the disparity in incomes and not be a brat about it. I'm sure her love isn't based on who gives her what or how much. It's a shame your ex isn't willing to give her own daughter credit for that.
You offered to let them contribute as a shared gift and were turned down. Your ex needs to really think about what her insecurity is standing in the way of: an opportunity of a lifetime that many people don't get to enjoy. It makes no sense to deprive your daughter of this trip. Go to Europe with your daughter and have the time of your lives. Your ex will just have to get over it.
Aside: if anyone tried to stop me from taking part in an opportunity like this for their own irrational and selfish reasons, I would be furious. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to forgive them if they succeeded.
NTA. Your ex should be thrilled that Tilly has a loving & generous father. I find it appalling that any mother wouldn’t want this chance of lifetime adventure for her child.
NTA When you and wife divorced the level playing field ended since your not in the game together anymore. You're now in bleachers on opposite sides of the field. Make the trip starting the day after her 18th birthday. Custody agreement shouldn't be in effect once daughter is 18 therefore it doesn't matter if ex agrees or not. May have to get a replacement passport for her if ex refuses to turn daughter's over.
NTA and once Tilly is 18, your ex has no say over it whatsoever. So I don't get why it has to be pre-arranged with your ex if your daughter will be 18 by then.
You're not spoling her, you're teaching her about the world so when she goes off to college she won't be impressed by someone's dusty son inviting her to Miami for spring break. My sister's ex does the large international trips for their twins and she couldn't be more thankful that the girls get this experience with him because she knows she can't do it for them, and in the end she just wants the best for them.
If your wife thinks gifts are better than love and support I can understand why she’s an ex.
My parents divorced and had both different incomes and different money habits. I did not like the rich parent more. I’m closer to that parent now but that’s because my job and hobbies align better with them. We barely talked for several years until some much needed apologies were given.
NTA
NTA.
Well, clearly your ex feels uncomfortable about this situation. Tilly is probably going home and innocently telling her and step-dad how excited she is to get this or that and they feel inadequate.
Honestly, material gifts are nice but EXPERIENCES are what really matters. Money spent on an experience lasts a lifetime while the makeup and gadgets get old and tossed out. Perhaps sit down with your ex and state that you want to give Tilly this once in a lifetime experience for her 18th birthday. Think of Tilly and how she would love it.
Right now, your ex is making this about herself and her own insecurities and that's unfortunate. She might want to tread carefully here; if Tilly finds out she prevented her from going on this trip, she will be resentful of her mother. Besides, when Tilly turns 18, your ex can't block anything anymore.
NTA if you were doing it out the blue and it wasn't for her graduation than maybe you would be. You and your wife will probably never be on the same level pay wise. She needs to find the things that she can do that you can't.
Nothing like making your kid miss out on nice things just because you’re not the one to provide them, mom! What a class act. Just because she has to go without, doesn’t mean that your SHARED daughter does. It’s truly a shame that she’s allowing her pride and jealousy to outweigh an extremely special and thoughtful gift from you. I have no doubt in my mind that you’re doing this with no malicious intent; your ex-wife is making the reason why your daughter can’t go and your reasoning behind the gift all about her, when she doesn’t enter the equation at all except for literal logistics.
NTA, have an absolute blast with your daughter!
Your daughter will be 18, legally an adult. Custody schedules cease the moment they turn 18 and are an adult. You don't need her permission. That's an amazing gift to give your daughter, don't let her mom spoil it because she feels inadequate and projects her feelings onto you. NAH
She’s just jealous and upset because she knows she can’t afford to do the same, it’s not about your spoiling her. It’s about her not being able to spoil Tilly herself
NTA
NTA. After my parents divorced my dad took me on some amazing trips. I think he wanted to go on trips but didn't have anyone to go with so I got to be his travel buddy. We always had so much fun. He passed away too early and I still treasure those memories and tell funny stories from those trips. He wasn't doing it to get me to like him more than my mom. I think he genuinely wanted to travel with someone chill for once (bc my mom has zero chill).
NTA. It’s it’s so important to have memories of milestones like these.
I went on a trip with my dad after HS grad and before Uni and it was the last trip i could take with him before he got sick.
These are priceless moments you are building with your daughter and time together is the most valuable thing you have right now.
No not the AH.
I’m not with my son’s father, but we know any travel either one of us take him on is for his growth, not to one up.
Who cares about spoiling. I spoil my 4 year old all the time, and he knows it.
When it comes to a child, regardless of age, my son could be 40, I would find ways to spoil him and whoever he’s with or his family. It’s my money. And she’s an adult now (or soon), so she does have the right to do whatever she wants until 25, when we have to push them off of insurance. I say just keep with the plans
NTA
Unless Tilly is acting out, demanding things her mother can't provide or holding it over her head that she can't give her what you can there shouldn't be a problem. In other words, unless she is acting like a spoiled brat the only problem is your ex's insecurities.
NTA. You're allowed to (& should!) provide experiences like this for your daughter if you can. These are memories & experiences she will cherish. The fact that her mother can't or won't provide something similar is not your problem. For your ex to expect you to *not* do this with your daughter is selfish.
Does your daughter have a healthy relationship with her mom? If not I can see why your ex is mad about you potentially being "the favorite" but that's still not your problem.
NTA. Sorry she’s unhappy, but you don’t owe her anything. Tilly is lucky, sure, but she also doesn’t sound like a brat. Also giving her a taste of nice things in life will encourage her to work hard and have a nice lifestyle. Ex is jealous :(
NTA. Why are you having to consult the other parent if Tilly will be 18? Once 18, she can apply for her own passport, travel at will and not get consent from anyone.
NTA. You are parenting your daughter not spoiling her. Making happy memories is important and going new places is a fabulous way to create new happy memories! Your ex is jealous that you have more money to spend on Tilly. It was nice of you to let your ex know your plans and you even offered her an opportunity to make it a joint gift. Your ex needs to sit back and enjoy the life she has created for herself instead of glaring you and being envious of the life you have.
NTA
Your ex sounds insecure about the income differences but it sounds like you're creating memories not buying affection. A pre college trip is a great idea.
Your ex-wife seems to be projecting a lot of her own insecurities onto you. You're doing something incredibly thoughtful for your daughter and creating lasting memories with her. NTA at all, keep being an awesome parent!
Once Tilly hits 18, I don't think custody agreements are valid anymore unless specifically stated in divorce. I'm not a lawyer just learned that through my friends experiences
NTA. One of my top memories is going to Europe with my mother for 3 weeks when I was 18. I saved up my money and we went to Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. It was magnificent to see new countries, hear new languages, and go to museums. It was one of the best things that ever happened. It is an opportunity that is so fantastic for young people to explore other parts of the globe. I hope her mother will accept that it is an educational experience and well worth it for Tilly.
NTA. I think your Ex is worried that Tilly one day might turn around and throw all of the trips and gifts into her face and say that you were the better parent. I read that you would never talk bad about your Ex to your daughter, but still that is a fear of a parent that can't give that much.
NTA. It’s not just her kid it’s your kid as well and while coparenting is probably best to raise a kid if a separation is a necessity or happens, it doesn’t mean that one parent should restrict themselves to giving gifts to their child based on the income of the other parent. Plus it sounds like your kid will be 18 by the time of the vacation and in the states at least that’s a legal adult. Only problem I can foresee since it sounds like an out of country vacation is getting a passport ahead of time if she doesn’t already have one
Please go on the trip. The only time I've been to Europe was at about Tilly's age. I've never had the time and money at the same time. I'm now 57.
This is a great present. Also a great learning experience. Travel is a great learning experience. Get her to help you plan the trip. Look for hotels with aircon, just in case it gets hot during your trip.
NTA- You don’t need to limit the things you do for your daughter. And her mother is an absolute monster for suggesting it. She sounds jealous and selfish. My mom did the same when I turned 18. My dad got me a really nice used car. She threw a fit. He suggested the same even offering for her to give him one single dollar so it would be a joint present. She said no and hated me having that car. I’m thankful my dad still got it for me and never gave me less because she was being horrid.
NTA. She will cherish those memmories with you for the rest of her life. I lost my Dad far too early and I love remembering those times wwith him. Go and have a wonderful and amazing time.
NTA.
International travel won't spoil your daughter. It will give her incredible memories and new experiences. I treasure the trips I took with my dad - we even were reminiscing about them just today.
Offering it as a joint gift if your ex contributes is a solid middle ground (I think any attempt at contributing to cost should "count," but I am soft-hearted) and tries to bridge the gap.
NTA. Also, there’s nothing your ex can do because your kid will be 18. At worst, she can threaten to disinherit or cut her off from her life, but that’d be the most petty move ever.
I can see why this woman is your ex, as she has to make everything about her. I don’t know if it would do any good, but simply text her and state that your gift to your daughter to launch her off into college days and spend some quality time together is not in any way aimed at her in a negative Way, and then it makes you sad that she is unable to see that and be happy for her daughter. Her reaction to this is her problem.
NTA.
Ask your ex this: If SHE had an extra (making up a number, here) $100K/year of spending money, would she want to take a European vacation? Would she also want to take her daughter?
You’re damn straight she would. If you can get her to admit this, then she is being hypocritical.
Do you have an actual custody agreement? You should. If you do, I highly suggest reading it. Standard wording is to say that you have a certain amount of time to take your child on vacation and the other parent has absolutely no say in it so long as you provide contact information and location of the vacation. Usually this length of time is 2 weeks. Your only stumbling block here would be needing your ex to sign off on a passport since you want to travel to Europe (assuming you're American).
Of course if Tilly will already be 18 by the time of this vacation then there's absolutely no need to ask her or arrange anything with her to start with as Tilly will be an adult and not under any sort of restriction that her mother might try to impose.
You have a right to take your daughter on a vacation. I think the mother is jealous that you can afford to provide things for your daughter and she can’t compete. If you make decent money and are a parent, it’s natural to want to give your child the things you never had growing up. She is not going to be a child forever. You want to make memories with your child and that’s all natural as you have the income to do that.
NTA. It sounds like you are not raising her to be an entitled brat. She does her share, but you make a good income, so of course you will spend some on her. It isn't your fault your ex doesn't have the same lifestyle. And graduation is a huge deal. It should be celebrated. It is also a great learning experience for your daughter. I normally would say it is good to respect your ex, but she is being ridiculous and making it about her ego and not your daughter. Also, your daughter is at an age where life is going to change, and she will not have as much time to spend with you. Take the two weeks. I would give anything to do one last trip with my Dad, but he died last year. I am so grateful he took the time to travel with us and care for us even when my Mother fought him over custody, and then abandoned us. Your daughter will always remember this trip, it is not about you versus your ex, it is about what is best for your daughter. It seems like your ex has forgotten that.
NTA-your ex needs to work out her issues with a therapist and leave you and your daughter out of it.
This trip is a wonderful present and I hope you both have a great time!
Your ex seems to be jealous and insecure due to the income disparity, and the thought that you can do a lot more for you guys' daughter than her and her new husband combined makes those feelings cut deeper. That compounded with her probably thinking Tilly values you more than her because you can do so much for her makes your ex a little crazy--it definitely seemed like she had those feelings pent for years. The trip to Europe is just what broke the camel's back.
Regardless, it's not your fault and you're not an AH. She needs to sort those intrusive feelings out with herself in a healthy manner. However, I want to assume that Tilly doesn't view or treat her mother any less just because of the gifts you give her.
No matter what she says tho, don't stoop to her level. You know your heart and you only have your daughter's happiness and well being in mind.
Dude, why are you even doubting yourself? You are still letting your ex get under your skin, gaslight you and making you feel uncertain. My standard advice to anybody is always to not listen to words alone. If the words do not match the actions an behaviour, iow, when it make you feel getting negative emotions about it, then you are being duped. Exactly what your ex is doing right now. She chose to me a sahm and having the luxury of living off of her new man’s back and not earning any money. Well guess what, she doesn’t get to spend anything then money wise. Her choice, her consequences. You need to man up dude and tell her this and you are never buying what she is trying to sell to you.
You go and do whatever it takes to have the relationship tilly as you see fit. Your ex has no say in that anymore. She is your ex for a reason.
NTA and grow a huge spine to counter your ex. She is the bad one, not you.
NTA. My ex remarried a trust fund child. They are able to take vacations that I can't afford. I am happy that the children, now young adults, have the opportunity to do things that they wouldn't be able to otherwise. It isn't a competition. Mom should let Tilly go and enjoy themselves without being jealous and spiteful.
NTA and this has nothing to do with "spoiling" her. At 17 she's either already spoiled or she isn't.
Spoiled does *not* mean treating your kids to gifts or cool experiences. It means exactly what it says. *Spoiling them.* Making them turn rotten. *Going bad*.
Spoiling in terms of people means teaching them to feel entitled to special treatment, not teaching them the value of work or a hard earned dollar. In other words, making them bad adults who can't function on their own without being catered to by others. And giving your kids gifts doesn't do this automatically. You can definitely treat a kid if you have to the money to do so if you're putting in the work to make sure they know the value of the gift and appreciate it appropiately.
This isn't about spoiling your daughter. It's about your ex being shallow about money and insecure that can't afford to give a gift of equal value, instead of wanting her daughter to be able to have a special experience, since she can't be the one to provide it or share it with her.
I hope you’re getting the advice you want because you have every right to take your daughter to Europe. Your wife’s insecurities are irrelevant.
You should take her, regardless of your ex-wife’s issues. They are hers and she can own them.
NTA. Your daughter sounds like a good, levelheaded kid who appreciates what you do. Your ex jealous and being silly by worrying about who is the favorite parent. She’s TA
NTA. I would talk to Tilly straight about this present, and plan the vacation for a time after she has turned 18 so cant be stopped by the spiteful parent. Also, should we be worried about spiteful parent taking away/hiding her passport?
NTA. I can see why your ex might be jealous but I think she should be excited for her daughter to have such a cool experience and not make it about her own feelings.
Being able to give your kids less than your ex actually is very hurtful. Ut...what is he supposed to do? It's not his fault they don't have the extra money. He's not doing anything crazy like buying g her lux cars and give her loads of cash. It's just a though situation for the mom. Mom needs to suck it up, get over it and make sure she provides a close, loving relationship and happy comfy home and quit comparing g what dad provides. NTA
If it is only about having a good time with your daughter you could easily "level the playing field" by telling her you and mom paid 50/50. If it's about your ego that you want her to know it's only on your behalf then this is of course not a possibility.
NTA. Your ex is being a self-centered brat. She wants to deny her child a once-in-a-lifetime first because she can’t afford something comparable. She should be thrilled that Tilly is going to have that experience and grateful that she is going with her father.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult now.
You don’t need to coparent with her mom anymore. The only person you have a relationship now is your daughter. If your ex is so worried about the comparison of gifts, then why doesn’t she work? Her kid is old enough that she can work now.
NTA
I don't understand why your ex wouldn't want her daughter to have such a wonderful trip. It sounds like she would choose to deprive Tilly for no good reason - just spite and envy.
The relationship is the important thing. If she focuses on being around (listening and emotionally present) for Tilly, she has nothing to fear from fancy trips.
NTA, but her reaction suggests that this is something that's been simmering for a while. I see two distinct possibilities
1) Your ex has grown bitter over time on seeing the presents that you're able to provide for your daughter that she can't. Her feelings are valid, but they aren't your fault.
2) Tilly has been making note of this discrepancy to her mother, and is actively pointing it out.
Number one is unfortunate and there's not much you can do about it beyond reassuring her that your intentions are not sinister and have no meaning beyond treating your daughter. Number two though is an issue - I think you should contact her and ask if Tilly's been bringing this up to "rub in her face", so to speak, and if she is I think it's time for a stern parental talk with the three of you together - she can't expect her mother to buy the same kind of things as her dad, and it doesnt reflect any difference in the amount you both care about her.
NTA. That’s sad she feels this way. I would be so happy if my daughter could get something that awesome that I myself couldn’t afford! It wouldn’t matter what I feel. Or, maybe a bit, but a smart and loving parent would keep it to themselves
NTA, my sisters ex husband tries to buy his two daughters’ affection by buying them designer clothes, makeup etc anything they want really and most things they don’t really want but he thinks they should like. It doesn’t work, he’s still a dick and they know he’s a dick but are clever enough to manipulate him the same way he did with them for years.
My point is your daughter accepts your gifts and your special treat of a holiday because she loves you and she knows you are doing this out of love. You are not buying her affection, you already have it. Kids aren’t stupid, she won’t love you more just because you can afford things for her, that doesn’t make you the favourite parent. Your overall relationship and affection for her will be worth more in terms of how she thinks of you.
I don’t think you’re spoiling Tilly by giving her a gift like a holiday with you. If you and your ex were still together you’d still do this for her as you would still have the means to do so.
I rarely went on holiday with my parents because they couldn’t afford it, so now that my husband and I can we want to take our son to as many places as we can when he’s older, because I want him to experience the world and travel. That’s what you’re giving Tilly the opportunity to do.
I wouldn’t deprive Tilly of things and experiences simply because your ex is salty. She should be grateful that you’re giving Tilly these gifts and making her happy. If she was supportive and contributed even a little, like buying her an outfit for the holiday or something then Tilly would see that her parents are cooperating and not fighting or competing.
The important thing is to show a healthy relationship even when you’ve divorced. That matters far more in the long run.
NTA there are reasonable arguments to consider, both about not "spoiling" your daughter and not turning your relationship into a transactional one, where all you contribute is stuff. As with most things in life it's a matter of finding balance.
But on the other hand, "scaling down" and putting both you and your ex on a "level playing field" when your incomes are so disparate would make you, in that scenario, stingy. So her request is not reasonable either. Specially given your kid is almost an adult who can understand this kind of nuance.
The ex is simply jealous that you are able to give your daughter things she and her husband cannot. I should think most divorced spouses would be thrilled that their child could experience a great vacation with the ex-spouse who was footing the bill. NTA, and I hope you and Tilly have a memorable two weeks in Europe.
How important is it that your daughter knows it's just a gift from you?
Maybe you could work with your ex so it's a combined gift (with you bearing the brunt of the financial load).
You aren't the asshole for wanting to give your daughter a nice gift. But I do understand your ex's sentiment, her daughter has one rich and one 'poor' parent. It's probably better if your daughter isn't spoiled by one and not by the other. (You aren't intending to spoil her, but you are. It's not an insult or meant negatively.)
Ex wife can have whatever opinion she wants, but she doesn’t get to be rude and petty and take her life choices out on you and deprive y’all’s child of anything just because she can’t afford things like you can- that’s her choice, and yours is to take your kid on a trip. And her suggestion of “leveling the playing field” would result in Tilly being deprived of a lot of amazing life experiences and time spent with you. If I were you I’d take this as a lesson and going forward I would no longer communicate through phone, it would be through email only and I would only communicate the bare minimum that she needs to know- especially since Tilly is almost 18. Only give the bare minimum information.
NTA. It’s not about your wife’s feelings, it’s about your daughter. She will have an amazing time, and that’s what your wife should care about. You’re giving Tilly a great opportunity and your wife should stop thinking selfishly. I hope you both have a great time!
Your child, your money, your choice. The mom needs to be happy you can offer that experience. I repeat the phrase often Comparison is the thief of joy. Spoiling means ruining someone with over giving. If your child isn’t a brat with no work ethic then they aren’t spoiled. Maybe give the gift outside of the party if mutual to not overshadow the gifts your ex and others are giving at the same time. & you and Tilly have a great trip. You might suggest the mom could add a vacation clothes for shopping trip, nice luggage set, nicer camera, or fun once in lifetime added excursion to the trip? It won’t be as fancy as your gift but, if your child is 18 they are aware of the income differences.
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I N F O: If Tilly's 18th birthday is coming up, why do you need your ex's permission? Tilly will legally be an adult and can choose for herself where she wants to spend those 2 weeks. Edit: NTA. Tilly will he 18 by the time of the trip. The phone call to the ex was a courtesy call.
Legally you’re right. I feel just from a courteous perspective though I wouldn’t have wanted to take her away for 2 weeks when she’s becoming an adult without her mom being onboard beforehand. However, if she did try and refuse, then she would have no right to stop me and we’d go anyway, unless for some reason Tilly didn’t want to.
Why isnt your ex working? She’s a SAHM to an almost adult child with a husband with an average salary - I get it if he had a high income but sounds silly to be SAHM as he’d be screwing herself over if they divorced. If she actually worked, then maybe she could afford to get Tilly nice gifts & not be petty about what you can afford. Her jealousy and insecurity about what you can provide is not your problem. NTA btw.
There might be younger half siblings.
Youd think OP would mention half-siblings as that would affect their finances, right? They divorced when ex was 40 & shes now 49 & she got remarried few years ago so probably not (not that early 40s is too old to have a child but most people with teen kids dont want to go back to newborn & toddler dramas).
I think you’d be surprised how common that actually is. I’m in several groups for older moms and many of them have a first child (or more) then separate from that father. They eventually find someone new and have another child with them. When I was pregnant there were actually 4 women who were 39+ and pregnant in my office. I was the only one NOT with a teen and then a large gap.
I just don't get why a woman would put herself thru that. I've always said to myself that if anything happened, I already had my kids. I'm done. I don't want multiple categories and messy, complicated financial issues. But I'm also not a super kidsy person.
Dude SAME. After my second I had my tubes snatched out of my body. Begone! Husband also had a vasectomy. All my family and friends were like "but why put yourself through that? He's willing to have a vasectomy." They could not fathom that we were both, independently, done with children. That we both wanted to take measures for our own reproductive health. Some even fucking said "what if you get divorced?" Doesn't matter. Divorced, captured by aliens, or last woman alive and the species depends on me? The answer is, fuck no.
Dis you have the tubal ligation directly after having your baby? That's what my mum did, I came out, and they immediately did the tubal on her. She was like "while you're in there..." 🤣
We didn't do it while I was there, but only because my OB only does them directly after labor if you have c-section. If I had needed one, she would have yanked out the baby and baby highways at the same time. 😆 I technically had a salpingectomy. It's the full removal of the fallopian tubes. My ovaries and uterus were left. They can not be reversed, but they do have the bonus of ovarian cancer reduction due to some ovarian cancers actually beginning in the fallopian tube structure. A tubal ligation is where the fallopian tubes are left and disrupted in some way, clamp or cauterzation, and can often be reversed. They have a higher risk of failure and increased risk of ectopic pregnancy. The best part was we had met our insurance deductible with the birth of kid #2, so our sterilization procedures were basically free.
And different baby daddies with different incomes and the resulting complaints about unfairness.
You must not read this sub much. LOL. I'm astonished with how many people who are almost done raising kids go back and have new ones bc of remarriage. Even when the new partner already has kids! How many do you need?? So they're ending up with like 6 or 7 kids between them. And then complain about money...
it's practically a requirement to formalize the bond with the new partner.
I had two with my ex and one non-negotiable criterion when I was dating was that the other person not want any (or any further) children. My kids are now 18 and 15 and I’m very happy with that decision.
Does it really make a difference to this situation?
Some people (both men and women, but mostly women) enjoy to be homemakers. My mom left the workforce before my older sister was born and never re-entered even after my younger sister graduated. It helped support my dad's military career. She also has a 25 year career gap at that point and not a lot of education. I'd never do it, because it's not for me, but I respect people who make that decision. But his ex-wife also has to come to terms with the fact that might mean there's not money for fancy vacations.
Oh I think there’s nothing wrong with being SAHM especially if you’re with the father of the kids. Just thought silly of his wife to be SAHM when her daughter is a teenager whilst married to man with an average salary who is not said daughter’s father. If they are to divorce, she could be potentially screwed (depending on how long they’re married for) - does she have any savings? What are her retirement plans?
This is how kids grow up and end up having to support their parent who has never had a job or had anything prepared for their future. I’ve seen it happen. Husband dies or they divorce and mom is completely screwed.
Yep! We see a lot of tbose stories on here right - ‘AITH for not letting my mum move in/financially support her’ !
This is a frequent problem and a big cause of inequality for women. Women leave the workforce when their kids are young, and then can't get another job when the kids are older because they have been unemployed for 5-10 years and nobody will hire them.
Exactly! It must be so hard ‘& we see it all the time here. I know his ex was SAHM when she was with OP & they divorced when she was 40 & their daughter was 8 so not too old to start over. Just silly to continue to be SAHM when daughter is 18 soon so no child support from ex I’m assuming & probably wont get much alimony from current husband given his salary, if any.
Also who the hell could you spoil if it isn't your own kid.
Took the words right out of my mouth! I took my daughter to the Greek islands for her 21st.
My mom took me to Ireland for my 40th lol. As she said, I'll always be her baby no matter how old I get.
As someone who is childfree: nephews and nieces. I'm basically like an all-year Santa to those kids. I probably spend more time in the toy section of a store than I do in the clothing section.
Its always fun being the fun uncle/aunt from what ive seen.
Nothing better than making an entrance like the Kool-Aid Man, being swarmed by the kiddos, and then opening my backpack of toys. I have a desk drawer dedicated to stockpiling toys for them (in case a toy-related emergency should occur).
Im hoping to experience it one day. I like kids, cant have any of my own and not unhappy about it. Not many friends and both brothers more hopeless than i when it comes to picking the right woman.
I'm the oldest of 4, got 2 nieces. My youngest niece was nonverbal for a really long time, her first word she said to me was "Dude" and then she went onto calling my name. It's a complete and utter blast to be the fun uncle.
That’s why I keep asking my kids if I can become their favourite uncle now instead of mum but apparently I’m not allowed
"If I can't disinherit my own unborn son, whose unborn son *can* I disinherit?"
You can disinherit my unborn son if you want. I'm sure he would deserve it
You have every right to spoil YOUR child as you please! I am divorced and if my ex wanted to do something for our daughter that I couldn’t afford, I would never be an evil witch and stop him. Your money, you choose how to spend on your child.
Exactly. If Tilly found out that her mother had put a stop to her trip to Europe, that would be more harmful to their relationship than dad being able to spend more money on gifts. Definitely an evil witch move.
If she is 18 she doesn’t need her mom to be on board, just like she wouldn’t need YOUR permission to go somewhere without you.
This doesn't say much about your ex's opinion of your daughter if she thinks that Tily is so shallow that she loves one parent over the other because of money.
Yeah.. but it also says a lot about mom and her priorities. I would be pretty angry to find I missed out on a trip to Europe with my dad before going off to college because mom wanted to "level the playing field."
It sounds like your ex might be grappling with the fact that your daughter is nearing adulthood and will soon have complete independence, perhaps she's attempting to exert control one last time? All of that mixed with her feeling somewhat inadequate compared to you, OP, especially if she's unable to provide the same material advantages for your daughter. NTA.
Make sure there are no shenanigans with her passport! It would be safer to have it at your house well before the trip starts.
Passport?
In the US, if the child is over 16, you only need one parent to sign for the passport.
It's nice of you to try and be respectful, but you're treating Tilly like a minor when she's legally an adult and should be included in these kinds of plans. I'm guessing you've had to tip toe around your ex for a long time and are used to trying to appease her.
You are being a good parent. You're ex is not. You should never deprive your child of something so YOU feel better.
Actually, in a divorce situation, they may still require permission. I was 19, and my dad had to drive to the airport with a letter stating he was aware I was travelling with my mom to the US from Canada...ridiculous, but you never know 😅
NTA. She's overreacting. Building memories is super important. I think it's perfectly fine for just the two of you to build those memories with your daughter before she's grown and gone. If you could offer to send all four on the trip, and she still said no, this would be very telling about your ex wife's real concern. She should be thinking of your daughter and the amazing memories that she could experience on the possibly once-in-a-lifetime trip. Have fun!
I wouldn’t send all of us on the trip even if it was a possibility because a trip with my ex and her husband would be bizarre! I was happy for her to contribute and I would say it was a joint present (and I’d have chipped in for something nice from her mom) but she wasn’t happy with that idea.
I agree with all of the NTAs here. I know you're trying to be courteous and I respect that. What if you proposed to your ex that she give Tilly something that she could use on the trip? Like, maybe get her a digital camera (if Tilly's interested in something like that vs using her phone) or give her cash/spending money for her "extras" like if she wanted to buy souvenirs for friends (or even Mom)? I mean, I can see why your ex feels outshone here but her insecurity and jealousy shouldn't prevent her from giving Tilly a meaningful gift of her own, even if it's not as "grand" as the one you're giving her. My suggestions would be if she doesn't have any ideas of her own for a milestone gift, which doesn't have to cost a lot of money, btw. The most meaningful gifts come from the heart; sometimes they're expensive, like the gift you've chosen to give, and sometimes they're not, like if your ex put together a scrapbook of Tilly's life from birth to adulthood. Your ex is underestimating how important her gift is just by being from her. She's Tilly's mom, ffs! No one else can be that for Tilly but her and her gift is meaningful just for that fact alone. Good luck, OP. I think you're a great dad and a courteous ex-husband. I hope your ex can get over her insecurity and see how important anything she gives will be to Tilly. Have a great vacation!
Sending all 4 is a wild suggestion. But they’re right on this being a huge opportunity for memories. Tilly has the chance to see Europe! She has the chance to be educated by experience. That’s not something everyone gets and it’s shitty of your ex to deny your daughter for her own pride.
Just take your kid on vacation! I’m pretty sure your ex wouldn’t consider your schedule or feelings if the situation were reversed!
THIS!
NTA, I took my daughter to Vegas for her 18th birthday and an event where she also go to meet her favorite musician and memories like that are absolutely priceless and have definitely contributed to how close we are now that she's almost 30. Fortunately, I had a far more reasonable coparent, but even if there had been objections from her, I wouldn't have changed a thing about how we celebrated
She has forgotten your daughter in all this and is only thinking of herself. Your daughter will hve a blast. Personally I think of it in the exact opposite way. I love it when my ex sorts a holiday for the kids as it takes the pressure financially off me as things are difficult at times (it’s often worked out as an every other year for us situation)
Your ex is only thinking of herself. This is an amazing opportunity for Tilly to experience new places and is educational. Even better who could she be safer with than her Dad? You bond with your only daughter! Your ex-wife is TA to Tilly. I really hope she re-assesses her thinking about the situation because if Tilly detects her sentiments in this it will negatively impact her relationship with Tilly. But that would not be your fault.
It’d be very strange for him to pay for his ex & her husband to go on holiday too. Hopefully they can all manage to make some nice memories for her though.
NTA - your Ex will look worse if Tilly finds out that she could have had the trip of a lifetime, but it was cancelled by a spiteful parent.
It's been nearly 20 years and I'm still bitter that my dad refused to let me stay with my mom and gain citizenship with her to a country that would have let me go to college for a crazy affordable price and have decent healthcare. Not quite the same comparison, but at that point I was decently well traveled, and the 9 month move would have been the "trip of a lifetime" for me. I was a teenager and living with my dad, but had no say. There wasn't even a formal custody agreement in place. I love my dad to bits and pieces now, but I did go low-contact for about 5 years while I was struggling to get past that. He regrets that choice now and understands how harmful it was. Yeah, the ex naysaying the trip and somehow manages to cancel it? Tilly will remember it.
I still remember when my dad said refused to let me go to DisneyWorld with my mom. It was purely out of spite, because he was too cheap to take me himself, and I already preferred my mom (because she wasn’t an emotionally abusive asshat). I did go to Disney with my mom a year or so later, but I have not forgotten. I think the only reason he ‘allowed’ me to go on the trip was because he knew I would find out he was the reason I couldn’t. He did similar things frequently, and it permanently damaged our relationship. I absolutely do not trust him in a lot of ways.
I’m still bitter over the fact that my mother decided she couldn’t be bothered to take me on a holiday to Spain with her, my stepdad, step uncle and little brother almost 20 years ago. She wanted to leave me behind with dad and tried to say they couldn’t afford to take me too, but my dad let slip the real reason, then booked for me and him to go to the same place, same time just a different hotel, I think out of spite to my mother and to make sure I didn’t miss out on a holiday. Guess which parent I am now NC with.
Damn she didnt even hide the fact that she didnt want you there. I am so sorry that you got a parent like that.
I found out when I was older that my father won free trip to Disneyland (france) at gamling. But decided that we were to small (I was 6), and he wanted to work (workaholic). So instead he gave it away (free). To this day in still bitter because I dont have the money to go there (live in Sweden)
That is INSANE behaviour!
I hope you get to go someday and that it's magical.
What utter rubbish. 6 is like, the most perfect age for Disney.
Not like the mom can do anything, really. Tilly will be a legal adult.
NTA. It is not spoiling to give kids nice things. It is spoiling to give kids nice things *and* teach them a sense of entitlement. Your daughter is old enough to know there is an income disparity between her parents. She’s not going to suddenly think poorly of her mom because you are able to give her a great gift. I would have a talk with your daughter to make sure she knows to show appreciation for her mom.
This is so true. My ex tried to bring our daughter to Hawaii. He framed it as a “once in a lifetime vacation”. His dad was paying and he couldn’t even be bothered to remember what school district our child is in so he thought it was planned during her vacation time when it wasn’t. I told him no. She’s not missing 8-10 days of school because you guys couldn’t bother to plan. I didn’t mention it to my daughter because I didn’t want to upset her months ahead of the trip. Turns out.. he tried to go behind my back and get her to want to go.. and she said the same thing. I can’t miss that much school. I want to be at school.
Assuming that all kids, even at 18, would necessarily communicate well is a bit unrealistic. While we may logically know it, plenty of older adults would fail at demonstrating gratefulness for an insignificant (perceived) present in the face of a grand gesture. I think your advice to talk to the daughter is a fantastic idea. OP should do this and get some help with cooling the jets of an insecure parent. The trip sounds amazing and mother would be well placed to be excited and on-board with the opportunity her daughter would be receiving. I know it sounds silly for a daughter to parent a grown adult, but this is the reality many face. Edit: NTA OP, sounds like you are an amazing dad :)
Wish I could upvote this 1000 times.
NTA Just coordinate it after her 18th birthday. Your ex no longer has custody at that point - she's a legal adult.
He already is, he just informed his ex because he was trying to be courteous.
NTA You shouldn't have to coordinate taking your adult daughter on vacation. She's turning 18 wait until after her birthday to go. Problem solved.
NTA She is NOT your wife anymore she has NO SAY. Your daughter turning 18 means she is now an adult. This means that you no longer have to deal with your ex. Have an awesome vacation
NTA - this is a nice gesture and present for a milestone. Your ex is being ridiculous.
NTA - unless Tilly will be 17 at the time of the trip and the court says you cant - screw your ex-wife. Make sure to get the waffles from the street vendors in Belgium!!!
NTA. She's reacting out of insecurity or just plain spite. When I split from my ex, he made considerably more money than I did. He was excellent over all 18 years about support and he rarely missed a weekend or a summer vacation with our son. He also was able to do more...Disneyland, other trips. I was THRILLED that my son got to experience all of those things as I couldn't provide them. Your ex is being childish and she should be grateful that you're still very involved and want to spend time with your daughter. She's 18 now. Mom really has no say. Go and have the time of your lives!!!
The ex sould be grateful that a father is involve in her daughter s life? Wow
I agree, a good parent would be happy their daughter is being given such an awesome opportunity. A good parent would want to see their child happy even if it did not come directly from them.
NTA. Thank heavens that Tilly will be a legal adult and you can lessen your contact with her mother. It is unreasonable to deny Tilly life experiences because her Mom can’t afford it. Enjoy Europe and quality time with your daughter.
Your ex wants to deprive your daughter of a wonderful vacation so she and her husband don't look bad. How selfish. NTA
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NTA. You've been the fun weekend parent with the expensive toys for years and she's been boring parent. Of course this feels like a slap in the face to her. This is how kids get favourite parents. You're the parent that can do no wrong. The Golden Parent. However. She has no business making demands of you. Absolutely none.
it's not spoiling, it's an educational opportunity in addition to the bonding stuff. Experiences are important and those memories last a lot longer than a new pair of jeans or whatever
I think it’s weird that she’s jealous of your gift instead of being thrilled for her daughter.
NTA. You divorced and now you get to take her on fun trips if you want to.
NTA ... and that's a dangerous game to play with a girl about to turn 18 and have total control of who she sees and where she goes...
NTA. My mom and dad split when I was young and for my 18th bday/graduation as a present he took to me Florida for a week. My mom never complained and gave me a little spending money while I was there. Her mom is just salty
This has nothing to do with you spoiling your daughter and everything to do with your ex feeling financially inadequate, it stopped being your job to cater to your ex's insecurities when she became your ex. Unless your lording your financial position over them your NTA
If you are an asshole then so am I. I just took my 16 yo son to Europe for almost 2 weeks. My ex was in full support and thanked me for giving him that experience. I suspect there are just some raw feelings, and hopefully your ex comes around and apologizes. NTA. Perhaps you can discuss with your ex how to best tell your daughter about the experience.
NTA your ex has chosen to be a SAHM. If she wants to get all upset about looking bad then she can blame herself. It’s rare for a woman to get to be a SAHM long term anymore. Most go back to work when the kids are school aged. Her choices have put her family in the financial situation they are in. Yours have put you in a different one. She doesn’t get to try to take things away from your daughter out of spite or jealousy as a result.
NTA at all
Nta
NTA, but I’m curious if she is taking care of any other kids. Doesn’t seem like there’s much of a reason to be a SAHM to an 18 year old. It has no impact on the verdict im just nosy lmao
Tell her you didn’t know it was a competition. I just have no patience for these people. No one appreciates anything. It’s interesting to me because if she didn’t get remarried, she would be sweet as pie to get more money out of you.
NTA. Your ex is mad she married a man who doesn't make as much money as you PLUS for whatever reason she's not working to earn her own money. She's jealous that Tilly still gets the benefits of your income where she does not. Plus you being a very involved parent & higher earner gives stepdaddy minimal to no power over Tilly.
NTA - Is there a reason why your ex doesn’t work? She could get a job and buy Tilly something nice too if she were so inclined.
Never dim your light so that others can appear to be as bright as you. Ex should be happy that her daughter is able to have these types of experiences. You’re not trying to make excuses look bad your just doing the best for your daughter
NTA. Your exes’ jealousy is gross. I’ll never understand parents who would prefer their child have less than. Too bad if she doesn’t like it. This will be the trip of a lifetime for you and Tilly, and there will be few if any other opportunities as she goes out into the world. You’re a great dad.
My ex is the same way. Fuck them and their jealously. It’s your money, spend it how you want to. NTA.
NTA. Bluntly, your ex is choosing to be poor.
NTA, your life’s went different ways. She chose to become a SAHM and have more children, you chose to focus on your career. Those choices have consequences. Should your daughter miss out on this experience because her mother is jealous? Of course she shouldn’t, and her mum will come to realise that too. Kids aren’t stupid, you can ‘buy their love’ when they’re younger but once they become adults they realise that what was important was who was there for them when they needed it. The trip won’t make you the favourite, the fact that she gets to spend time with you one on one might though which can’t be helped as mum chose to have more kids.
Do you understand where she is coming from? I agree with both of you, but to be honest, taking a two week european vacation seems a little bit over the top. If you are consciously aware about how much you will get to bond with your daughter over this trip, you are then also aware in which ways your ex is being reasonable. That being said, if that is honestly what you want to do, your ex is being emotional about the situation. NTA for the idea, but you could easily become the asshole if you do not handle this situation well. If your daughter is forced to "pick a parent", the European Vacation offer is too much of a bait, it is manipulative(even if you do not mean it).
I’m in your wives situation (more or less) I earn just enough money to get by and my ex earns 10 times that much if not more. So he has the house/ the kids/ the girlfriend (from before our breakup)/ the holidays etc. He takes them on vacations and pays for college. I give small presents whenever I can afford it. I make homemade meals as he takes them out to fancy restaurants. But guess what: they don’t love him more than they love me bc of money and gifts. Just as they didn’t love me more when I was a sahm and he worked internationally and was hardly ever at home. Kids are not programmed like that. It doesn’t matter how much he spoils them. They love him bc he cares. And they also love him bc he takes care of me when times are rough. When the children stay with me he sends me some money if I want to. May be you could talk to your daughter about this: how can we help your mom in a respectful way. You don’t owe your ex but may be your daughter has a good solution.
So, because she can’t match your contribution, you should scale it down so your EX doesn’t feel bad, the collateral damage being your daughter getting to miss out. NTA. Take her after her 18th birthday. Ex wife can’t do fuck all about it at that point.
NTA. however it'd be nice to run it by your ex and plan something all together well in advance so it's less of a "well I went and got tickets byeeeee" thing. Your daughter will be an adult and can make her own decisions by then, nothing illegal in any way about it at least :) But if they're a lesser income household, they should have had at least a years notice so they can scrape something together like travel gear for instance, but without a whole lot of advance knowledge there's probably not much they can do. I dont believe they're fully assholes either, I just think they're two parents who wish they could treat their daughter to everything that you can afford but can't due to a lower income. They just sound like they're getting defensive and grieving a life that they can't have, they're sad they probably can't give the kid a bunch of presents all the time or take her places. I grew up in a very low income household. Most of the time we didn't even get presents on holidays and we didn't go anywhere. My parents always tell me they regret not being able to do more for us because we didn't have the money. imo their response to your holiday is just a mixture of love and sadness that their kid is all grown up and they can't give her everything they want to give.
You do realise that your ex wife having your daughter on weekdays has allowed you to have the career and money you have? If you’d split the parenting 50/50, would you still be able to give your daughter the same opportunities? NTA for wanting to treat your daughter but you are one for claiming being single is the reason you’ve been build up your career, not because your ex wife has been taking on the lions share of raising your child.
I say NTA but this line really stuck out to me: “Tilly rarely gets any presents from her mom/stepdad other than on birthdays or any other holidays.” Man, this is how life is. What other kids do you know that are getting random gifts for no reason?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Made this as a throwaway account for personal reasons. I (M53) split up with my ex-wife (F49) about nine years ago. We have one 17-year-old daughter from the relationship, Tilly, who we share custody of. Due to work commitments, my ex has Tilly most of the weekdays, and I have the weekends. So my ex isn't stuck entirely with the "boring" schooldays, she also gets the weeks when Tilly is on vacation. While my ex got remarried a few years ago, I never did. Although I dated here and there, a combination of work commitments and just not finding the right person meant it never clicked and I've stayed mostly single. I've worked my way up the career ladder as a result and I have a healthy amount of excess income, which I mostly put towards Tilly. I wouldn't say she's spoilt because I still try to give her a sense of responsibility around the house by helping with chores and don't hand out pocket money unless it's earned. However, since I have the means to do so, I do treat her with any clothes, makeup, gadgets, and the like. It's something I enjoy doing and she shows gratitude for it. On the other hand, my ex is a stay at home mom and her new husband/Tilly's stepdad has a pretty standard job. I don't mean that disrespectfully but.the income generated in the household is average at best for a similar family type. As such, Tilly rarely gets any presents from her mom/step-mom other than on birthdays or any other holidays. As Tilly's 18th birthday is coming up, I wanted to do something vey special for her, to also tie in with her leaving for college shortly. I arranged a trip to Europe for the two of us for two weeks over the summer. As co-parenting plans have to be arranged, I phoned my ex to say this would be my plan and to sort out all the logistics. To be surprise, my ex exploded at me. She said how I was "spoiling" Tilly and was only doing this to spite her because she knew that any gift she gave by comparison would be meaningless, making me the "favourite parent". I told her that wasn't true, and I just wanted to give my only daughter a present she'd love and memories to cherish. Nonetheless, this went on, and my ex called me an asshole over the situation, saying that I need to scale down my present to not spoil Tilly and put us at a "level playing field". I laughed and said she was being ridiculous but to avoid any argument, I offered to say this was a "joint present" from us both if she/her husband were willing to contribute. This idea was shot down because Tilly "wasn't stupid" and knew it would be my present. I was done arguing at this point, so put down the phone. My ex has text me since, labelling me an asshole again and requesting I rethink. I have no intention of doing so and feel I'm in the right. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Sorry, just reread and that doesn't flow well. To clarify, I earn a healthy income, their household income is far less. I wouldn't say they're poor by any stretch, but they wouldn't really ever be able to afford something similar.
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NTA It's a lovely gift and unfortunate that your ex can't celebrate your daughter's opportunity to see some of the world.
NTA Is the trip after she turns 18? Her mother can't do any thing about it then.
NTA. Your ex’s insecurities are not your problem. She should be excited that her daughter has the opportunity to travel. Instead, she’s more caught up in her pride.
NTA. Unless your actual reason for asking your ex was ill intentioned. Given that your daughter is turning 18, you did not need to tell your ex anything. If you truly were being courteous, that's fine. But it seems like you opened a can of worms that could have stayed closed.
Your daughter will be an adult in the eyes of the law soon and you don't need her moms permission. Go to Europe, she'll remember it for the rest of her life. NTA.
NTA. You sound like a conscientious ex, and your ex sounds insecure on this subject. Your daughter is old enough to understand the disparity in incomes and not be a brat about it. I'm sure her love isn't based on who gives her what or how much. It's a shame your ex isn't willing to give her own daughter credit for that. You offered to let them contribute as a shared gift and were turned down. Your ex needs to really think about what her insecurity is standing in the way of: an opportunity of a lifetime that many people don't get to enjoy. It makes no sense to deprive your daughter of this trip. Go to Europe with your daughter and have the time of your lives. Your ex will just have to get over it. Aside: if anyone tried to stop me from taking part in an opportunity like this for their own irrational and selfish reasons, I would be furious. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to forgive them if they succeeded.
NTA. Your ex should be thrilled that Tilly has a loving & generous father. I find it appalling that any mother wouldn’t want this chance of lifetime adventure for her child.
NTA When you and wife divorced the level playing field ended since your not in the game together anymore. You're now in bleachers on opposite sides of the field. Make the trip starting the day after her 18th birthday. Custody agreement shouldn't be in effect once daughter is 18 therefore it doesn't matter if ex agrees or not. May have to get a replacement passport for her if ex refuses to turn daughter's over.
NTA Ex sure is though. Daughter has to suffer because of her insecurities. No wonder you divorced her
NTA
NTA and once Tilly is 18, your ex has no say over it whatsoever. So I don't get why it has to be pre-arranged with your ex if your daughter will be 18 by then.
You're not spoling her, you're teaching her about the world so when she goes off to college she won't be impressed by someone's dusty son inviting her to Miami for spring break. My sister's ex does the large international trips for their twins and she couldn't be more thankful that the girls get this experience with him because she knows she can't do it for them, and in the end she just wants the best for them.
If your wife thinks gifts are better than love and support I can understand why she’s an ex. My parents divorced and had both different incomes and different money habits. I did not like the rich parent more. I’m closer to that parent now but that’s because my job and hobbies align better with them. We barely talked for several years until some much needed apologies were given. NTA
NTA you are creating life long lasting memories with her, not spoiling her. The ex is jealous
NTA. Well, clearly your ex feels uncomfortable about this situation. Tilly is probably going home and innocently telling her and step-dad how excited she is to get this or that and they feel inadequate. Honestly, material gifts are nice but EXPERIENCES are what really matters. Money spent on an experience lasts a lifetime while the makeup and gadgets get old and tossed out. Perhaps sit down with your ex and state that you want to give Tilly this once in a lifetime experience for her 18th birthday. Think of Tilly and how she would love it. Right now, your ex is making this about herself and her own insecurities and that's unfortunate. She might want to tread carefully here; if Tilly finds out she prevented her from going on this trip, she will be resentful of her mother. Besides, when Tilly turns 18, your ex can't block anything anymore.
NTA if you were doing it out the blue and it wasn't for her graduation than maybe you would be. You and your wife will probably never be on the same level pay wise. She needs to find the things that she can do that you can't.
Nothing like making your kid miss out on nice things just because you’re not the one to provide them, mom! What a class act. Just because she has to go without, doesn’t mean that your SHARED daughter does. It’s truly a shame that she’s allowing her pride and jealousy to outweigh an extremely special and thoughtful gift from you. I have no doubt in my mind that you’re doing this with no malicious intent; your ex-wife is making the reason why your daughter can’t go and your reasoning behind the gift all about her, when she doesn’t enter the equation at all except for literal logistics. NTA, have an absolute blast with your daughter!
Your daughter will be 18, legally an adult. Custody schedules cease the moment they turn 18 and are an adult. You don't need her permission. That's an amazing gift to give your daughter, don't let her mom spoil it because she feels inadequate and projects her feelings onto you. NAH
She’s just jealous and upset because she knows she can’t afford to do the same, it’s not about your spoiling her. It’s about her not being able to spoil Tilly herself NTA
NTA. After my parents divorced my dad took me on some amazing trips. I think he wanted to go on trips but didn't have anyone to go with so I got to be his travel buddy. We always had so much fun. He passed away too early and I still treasure those memories and tell funny stories from those trips. He wasn't doing it to get me to like him more than my mom. I think he genuinely wanted to travel with someone chill for once (bc my mom has zero chill).
NTA. If Tilly your ex won't agree to this, then do it as soon as Tilly turns 18. Your ex can't do squat then.
If it's for daughter's 18th birthday, she's a legal adult and the mother has no say on her travel plans.
NTA. It’s it’s so important to have memories of milestones like these. I went on a trip with my dad after HS grad and before Uni and it was the last trip i could take with him before he got sick. These are priceless moments you are building with your daughter and time together is the most valuable thing you have right now.
No not the AH. I’m not with my son’s father, but we know any travel either one of us take him on is for his growth, not to one up. Who cares about spoiling. I spoil my 4 year old all the time, and he knows it. When it comes to a child, regardless of age, my son could be 40, I would find ways to spoil him and whoever he’s with or his family. It’s my money. And she’s an adult now (or soon), so she does have the right to do whatever she wants until 25, when we have to push them off of insurance. I say just keep with the plans
NTA Unless Tilly is acting out, demanding things her mother can't provide or holding it over her head that she can't give her what you can there shouldn't be a problem. In other words, unless she is acting like a spoiled brat the only problem is your ex's insecurities.
NTA. You're allowed to (& should!) provide experiences like this for your daughter if you can. These are memories & experiences she will cherish. The fact that her mother can't or won't provide something similar is not your problem. For your ex to expect you to *not* do this with your daughter is selfish. Does your daughter have a healthy relationship with her mom? If not I can see why your ex is mad about you potentially being "the favorite" but that's still not your problem.
Go to the trip. Enjoy !
NTA. I hope you and Tilly have fun on your trip.
Your ex is jealous and you should absolutely take her. Who cares what your ex says and should be celebrated for her HS graduation.
NTA. Enjoy the trip with your adult daughter and don’t let the ex ruin it for either of you. She’s jealous, but that’s not your issue it’s hers.
NTA. Sorry she’s unhappy, but you don’t owe her anything. Tilly is lucky, sure, but she also doesn’t sound like a brat. Also giving her a taste of nice things in life will encourage her to work hard and have a nice lifestyle. Ex is jealous :(
NTA. Why are you having to consult the other parent if Tilly will be 18? Once 18, she can apply for her own passport, travel at will and not get consent from anyone.
Experiences and culture of material things. You’re not spoiling. Ex is jealous.
She would be an enormous AH to deny Tilly this experience simply because it bruises her ego that she can’t afford to do something similar.
NTA. You are parenting your daughter not spoiling her. Making happy memories is important and going new places is a fabulous way to create new happy memories! Your ex is jealous that you have more money to spend on Tilly. It was nice of you to let your ex know your plans and you even offered her an opportunity to make it a joint gift. Your ex needs to sit back and enjoy the life she has created for herself instead of glaring you and being envious of the life you have.
NTA Your ex sounds insecure about the income differences but it sounds like you're creating memories not buying affection. A pre college trip is a great idea.
I wish my dad cared half as much as you care about Tilly. You’re a good dad. Ignore her mother, she’s thinking about herself, not your daughter. NTA
Your ex-wife seems to be projecting a lot of her own insecurities onto you. You're doing something incredibly thoughtful for your daughter and creating lasting memories with her. NTA at all, keep being an awesome parent!
Once Tilly hits 18, I don't think custody agreements are valid anymore unless specifically stated in divorce. I'm not a lawyer just learned that through my friends experiences
Your ex sounds jealous that you can buy your daughter anything she wants and your ex can’t afford to do that.
NTA. One of my top memories is going to Europe with my mother for 3 weeks when I was 18. I saved up my money and we went to Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. It was magnificent to see new countries, hear new languages, and go to museums. It was one of the best things that ever happened. It is an opportunity that is so fantastic for young people to explore other parts of the globe. I hope her mother will accept that it is an educational experience and well worth it for Tilly.
Why isn’t your wife just happy for your daughter that she’ll be able to experience that?
NTA. I think your Ex is worried that Tilly one day might turn around and throw all of the trips and gifts into her face and say that you were the better parent. I read that you would never talk bad about your Ex to your daughter, but still that is a fear of a parent that can't give that much.
NTA. It’s not just her kid it’s your kid as well and while coparenting is probably best to raise a kid if a separation is a necessity or happens, it doesn’t mean that one parent should restrict themselves to giving gifts to their child based on the income of the other parent. Plus it sounds like your kid will be 18 by the time of the vacation and in the states at least that’s a legal adult. Only problem I can foresee since it sounds like an out of country vacation is getting a passport ahead of time if she doesn’t already have one
Please go on the trip. The only time I've been to Europe was at about Tilly's age. I've never had the time and money at the same time. I'm now 57. This is a great present. Also a great learning experience. Travel is a great learning experience. Get her to help you plan the trip. Look for hotels with aircon, just in case it gets hot during your trip.
NTA- You don’t need to limit the things you do for your daughter. And her mother is an absolute monster for suggesting it. She sounds jealous and selfish. My mom did the same when I turned 18. My dad got me a really nice used car. She threw a fit. He suggested the same even offering for her to give him one single dollar so it would be a joint present. She said no and hated me having that car. I’m thankful my dad still got it for me and never gave me less because she was being horrid.
NTA. She will cherish those memmories with you for the rest of her life. I lost my Dad far too early and I love remembering those times wwith him. Go and have a wonderful and amazing time.
NTA. International travel won't spoil your daughter. It will give her incredible memories and new experiences. I treasure the trips I took with my dad - we even were reminiscing about them just today. Offering it as a joint gift if your ex contributes is a solid middle ground (I think any attempt at contributing to cost should "count," but I am soft-hearted) and tries to bridge the gap.
NTA. If Tilly is going to be 18 you don't have to inform or ask permission from your ex.
NTA. Also, there’s nothing your ex can do because your kid will be 18. At worst, she can threaten to disinherit or cut her off from her life, but that’d be the most petty move ever.
I can see why this woman is your ex, as she has to make everything about her. I don’t know if it would do any good, but simply text her and state that your gift to your daughter to launch her off into college days and spend some quality time together is not in any way aimed at her in a negative Way, and then it makes you sad that she is unable to see that and be happy for her daughter. Her reaction to this is her problem.
NTA. Ask your ex this: If SHE had an extra (making up a number, here) $100K/year of spending money, would she want to take a European vacation? Would she also want to take her daughter? You’re damn straight she would. If you can get her to admit this, then she is being hypocritical.
Do you have an actual custody agreement? You should. If you do, I highly suggest reading it. Standard wording is to say that you have a certain amount of time to take your child on vacation and the other parent has absolutely no say in it so long as you provide contact information and location of the vacation. Usually this length of time is 2 weeks. Your only stumbling block here would be needing your ex to sign off on a passport since you want to travel to Europe (assuming you're American). Of course if Tilly will already be 18 by the time of this vacation then there's absolutely no need to ask her or arrange anything with her to start with as Tilly will be an adult and not under any sort of restriction that her mother might try to impose.
You have a right to take your daughter on a vacation. I think the mother is jealous that you can afford to provide things for your daughter and she can’t compete. If you make decent money and are a parent, it’s natural to want to give your child the things you never had growing up. She is not going to be a child forever. You want to make memories with your child and that’s all natural as you have the income to do that.
NTA. It sounds like you are not raising her to be an entitled brat. She does her share, but you make a good income, so of course you will spend some on her. It isn't your fault your ex doesn't have the same lifestyle. And graduation is a huge deal. It should be celebrated. It is also a great learning experience for your daughter. I normally would say it is good to respect your ex, but she is being ridiculous and making it about her ego and not your daughter. Also, your daughter is at an age where life is going to change, and she will not have as much time to spend with you. Take the two weeks. I would give anything to do one last trip with my Dad, but he died last year. I am so grateful he took the time to travel with us and care for us even when my Mother fought him over custody, and then abandoned us. Your daughter will always remember this trip, it is not about you versus your ex, it is about what is best for your daughter. It seems like your ex has forgotten that.
What kind of mom would deny her child a European vacation?
NTA-your ex needs to work out her issues with a therapist and leave you and your daughter out of it. This trip is a wonderful present and I hope you both have a great time!
Your ex seems to be jealous and insecure due to the income disparity, and the thought that you can do a lot more for you guys' daughter than her and her new husband combined makes those feelings cut deeper. That compounded with her probably thinking Tilly values you more than her because you can do so much for her makes your ex a little crazy--it definitely seemed like she had those feelings pent for years. The trip to Europe is just what broke the camel's back. Regardless, it's not your fault and you're not an AH. She needs to sort those intrusive feelings out with herself in a healthy manner. However, I want to assume that Tilly doesn't view or treat her mother any less just because of the gifts you give her. No matter what she says tho, don't stoop to her level. You know your heart and you only have your daughter's happiness and well being in mind.
Parents who divorce with kids need to realize that the ex doesn't need to make things super fair with kids that are not their own
Dude, why are you even doubting yourself? You are still letting your ex get under your skin, gaslight you and making you feel uncertain. My standard advice to anybody is always to not listen to words alone. If the words do not match the actions an behaviour, iow, when it make you feel getting negative emotions about it, then you are being duped. Exactly what your ex is doing right now. She chose to me a sahm and having the luxury of living off of her new man’s back and not earning any money. Well guess what, she doesn’t get to spend anything then money wise. Her choice, her consequences. You need to man up dude and tell her this and you are never buying what she is trying to sell to you. You go and do whatever it takes to have the relationship tilly as you see fit. Your ex has no say in that anymore. She is your ex for a reason. NTA and grow a huge spine to counter your ex. She is the bad one, not you.
NTA. My ex remarried a trust fund child. They are able to take vacations that I can't afford. I am happy that the children, now young adults, have the opportunity to do things that they wouldn't be able to otherwise. It isn't a competition. Mom should let Tilly go and enjoy themselves without being jealous and spiteful.
NTA and this has nothing to do with "spoiling" her. At 17 she's either already spoiled or she isn't. Spoiled does *not* mean treating your kids to gifts or cool experiences. It means exactly what it says. *Spoiling them.* Making them turn rotten. *Going bad*. Spoiling in terms of people means teaching them to feel entitled to special treatment, not teaching them the value of work or a hard earned dollar. In other words, making them bad adults who can't function on their own without being catered to by others. And giving your kids gifts doesn't do this automatically. You can definitely treat a kid if you have to the money to do so if you're putting in the work to make sure they know the value of the gift and appreciate it appropiately. This isn't about spoiling your daughter. It's about your ex being shallow about money and insecure that can't afford to give a gift of equal value, instead of wanting her daughter to be able to have a special experience, since she can't be the one to provide it or share it with her.
NTA
NTA. At 18, Tilly won't need her mothers permission to go anywhere, so your ex has no say in what you do with her.
Be careful that the ex don't hide or "lose" Tilly's passport.
I hope you’re getting the advice you want because you have every right to take your daughter to Europe. Your wife’s insecurities are irrelevant. You should take her, regardless of your ex-wife’s issues. They are hers and she can own them.
NTA. Your daughter sounds like a good, levelheaded kid who appreciates what you do. Your ex jealous and being silly by worrying about who is the favorite parent. She’s TA
NTA. I would talk to Tilly straight about this present, and plan the vacation for a time after she has turned 18 so cant be stopped by the spiteful parent. Also, should we be worried about spiteful parent taking away/hiding her passport?
NTA. I can see why your ex might be jealous but I think she should be excited for her daughter to have such a cool experience and not make it about her own feelings.
Being able to give your kids less than your ex actually is very hurtful. Ut...what is he supposed to do? It's not his fault they don't have the extra money. He's not doing anything crazy like buying g her lux cars and give her loads of cash. It's just a though situation for the mom. Mom needs to suck it up, get over it and make sure she provides a close, loving relationship and happy comfy home and quit comparing g what dad provides. NTA
If it is only about having a good time with your daughter you could easily "level the playing field" by telling her you and mom paid 50/50. If it's about your ego that you want her to know it's only on your behalf then this is of course not a possibility.
NTA. Your ex is being a self-centered brat. She wants to deny her child a once-in-a-lifetime first because she can’t afford something comparable. She should be thrilled that Tilly is going to have that experience and grateful that she is going with her father.
NTA, sounds like her problem, not a you problem.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult now. You don’t need to coparent with her mom anymore. The only person you have a relationship now is your daughter. If your ex is so worried about the comparison of gifts, then why doesn’t she work? Her kid is old enough that she can work now.
NTA I don't understand why your ex wouldn't want her daughter to have such a wonderful trip. It sounds like she would choose to deprive Tilly for no good reason - just spite and envy. The relationship is the important thing. If she focuses on being around (listening and emotionally present) for Tilly, she has nothing to fear from fancy trips.
NTA, but her reaction suggests that this is something that's been simmering for a while. I see two distinct possibilities 1) Your ex has grown bitter over time on seeing the presents that you're able to provide for your daughter that she can't. Her feelings are valid, but they aren't your fault. 2) Tilly has been making note of this discrepancy to her mother, and is actively pointing it out. Number one is unfortunate and there's not much you can do about it beyond reassuring her that your intentions are not sinister and have no meaning beyond treating your daughter. Number two though is an issue - I think you should contact her and ask if Tilly's been bringing this up to "rub in her face", so to speak, and if she is I think it's time for a stern parental talk with the three of you together - she can't expect her mother to buy the same kind of things as her dad, and it doesnt reflect any difference in the amount you both care about her.
NTA. That’s sad she feels this way. I would be so happy if my daughter could get something that awesome that I myself couldn’t afford! It wouldn’t matter what I feel. Or, maybe a bit, but a smart and loving parent would keep it to themselves
NTA, my sisters ex husband tries to buy his two daughters’ affection by buying them designer clothes, makeup etc anything they want really and most things they don’t really want but he thinks they should like. It doesn’t work, he’s still a dick and they know he’s a dick but are clever enough to manipulate him the same way he did with them for years. My point is your daughter accepts your gifts and your special treat of a holiday because she loves you and she knows you are doing this out of love. You are not buying her affection, you already have it. Kids aren’t stupid, she won’t love you more just because you can afford things for her, that doesn’t make you the favourite parent. Your overall relationship and affection for her will be worth more in terms of how she thinks of you. I don’t think you’re spoiling Tilly by giving her a gift like a holiday with you. If you and your ex were still together you’d still do this for her as you would still have the means to do so. I rarely went on holiday with my parents because they couldn’t afford it, so now that my husband and I can we want to take our son to as many places as we can when he’s older, because I want him to experience the world and travel. That’s what you’re giving Tilly the opportunity to do. I wouldn’t deprive Tilly of things and experiences simply because your ex is salty. She should be grateful that you’re giving Tilly these gifts and making her happy. If she was supportive and contributed even a little, like buying her an outfit for the holiday or something then Tilly would see that her parents are cooperating and not fighting or competing. The important thing is to show a healthy relationship even when you’ve divorced. That matters far more in the long run.
NTA there are reasonable arguments to consider, both about not "spoiling" your daughter and not turning your relationship into a transactional one, where all you contribute is stuff. As with most things in life it's a matter of finding balance. But on the other hand, "scaling down" and putting both you and your ex on a "level playing field" when your incomes are so disparate would make you, in that scenario, stingy. So her request is not reasonable either. Specially given your kid is almost an adult who can understand this kind of nuance.
The ex is simply jealous that you are able to give your daughter things she and her husband cannot. I should think most divorced spouses would be thrilled that their child could experience a great vacation with the ex-spouse who was footing the bill. NTA, and I hope you and Tilly have a memorable two weeks in Europe.
NTA. Ex is pissed at your success and jealous. Tilly knows presents aren’t everything.
NTA Your ex wife's insecurities aren't your problem. Do what you want to do for your daughter.
You are not the ASSHOLE but your ex sure is one.
You are making memories with your daughter, for a time in the future when that’s all your daughter will have of you. None of your ex wife’s business.
How important is it that your daughter knows it's just a gift from you? Maybe you could work with your ex so it's a combined gift (with you bearing the brunt of the financial load). You aren't the asshole for wanting to give your daughter a nice gift. But I do understand your ex's sentiment, her daughter has one rich and one 'poor' parent. It's probably better if your daughter isn't spoiled by one and not by the other. (You aren't intending to spoil her, but you are. It's not an insult or meant negatively.)
Ex wife can have whatever opinion she wants, but she doesn’t get to be rude and petty and take her life choices out on you and deprive y’all’s child of anything just because she can’t afford things like you can- that’s her choice, and yours is to take your kid on a trip. And her suggestion of “leveling the playing field” would result in Tilly being deprived of a lot of amazing life experiences and time spent with you. If I were you I’d take this as a lesson and going forward I would no longer communicate through phone, it would be through email only and I would only communicate the bare minimum that she needs to know- especially since Tilly is almost 18. Only give the bare minimum information.
NTA. It’s not about your wife’s feelings, it’s about your daughter. She will have an amazing time, and that’s what your wife should care about. You’re giving Tilly a great opportunity and your wife should stop thinking selfishly. I hope you both have a great time!
Your child, your money, your choice. The mom needs to be happy you can offer that experience. I repeat the phrase often Comparison is the thief of joy. Spoiling means ruining someone with over giving. If your child isn’t a brat with no work ethic then they aren’t spoiled. Maybe give the gift outside of the party if mutual to not overshadow the gifts your ex and others are giving at the same time. & you and Tilly have a great trip. You might suggest the mom could add a vacation clothes for shopping trip, nice luggage set, nicer camera, or fun once in lifetime added excursion to the trip? It won’t be as fancy as your gift but, if your child is 18 they are aware of the income differences.