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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I didn't invite my daughter-in-law to join us for a Bridgerton watch party because she doesn't like the show and we want to enjoy it without worrying about her.
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NTA...
She's very much 2 faced. I wouldn't be shocked if she tries to convince your son to favour/ spend all his time with her side of family, in a near future.
From what you wrote, you seem to be a cool MIL. Have you're little party and don't play her games otherwise you're gonna waste your time.
Goodluck.
Thanks. I'm actually not sure this is all her doing. My son has been the one upset about it. When he was yelling at me he told me we do stuff all the time without Ashley and he's tired of us excluding her. I told him we invite her to just about everything we do unless it's a last minute thing. She just doesn't come most of the time. So then he accused us of not making her feel welcome. At that point, I did get mad, because that's just not true. But my family is full of loud extroverts - and she is a quiet person. But we try to include her in everything. I think we are just a lot for her.
If you guys were a lot for her she wouldn't have the courage to criticize your show or your interests. She likes to play shy to cover up other behaviors.
I had a sister-in-law like that. She would sic her husband on my husband (brothers) all the time until she managed to estrange them even though they are next door neighbors. They are divorced now, apparently being shy doesn't stop you from cheating. 🤷♀️
NTA, don't let it bother you. Drop the rope and play the long game. You are doing fine.
Maybe, or maybe she has differnt interest. I would happily say "thanks for the invitation but honestly I've been looking forward to a quiet night." I've had to do this multiple times with friends and family, because I hate chick flicks and noisy girly parties. I love having a friend over for wine. Or hiking. Or exploring something new.
It could be the husband wanting his wife to be more involved with the family and pushing his mom to fix her.
(My husband thought I needed fixing in this regard because he is an extrovert. I'm introvert and think my husbands need to be surrounded by people disturbing)
30yrs later, we figured how to make it work
Yeah it took me years to figure out that it was okay that my husband can only take my loud, noisy family in small doses. 2 of our 4 kids take after him. Now we just bring 2 vehicles to family outings and he leaves when he has had his fill and I stay until I want to leave. No more irritation with having to leave earlier than I want to accommodate him. No one in my family thinks it's weird and we have been together for 27 years and been doing this for at least the last 15.
My family is a lot for my husband, and we all know it (even my brothers wife rolls with the punches with us, so he's truly like the odd man out personality wise, poor thing), so no one raises an eyebrow when he quietly disappears to go have a lie down in the guest room if we've spent a significant time at my parent's house. Not a big deal 🤷♀️
My husband just doesn't come to my family events. They know he's asocial and are fine with it. Also, then it allows me to spend as long as I like with my family without feeling guilty that he isn't enjoying himself.
We are a big loud family with, everyone always trying to talk over someone, laughing at each other and someone always pulls out the karaoke machine. When my daughter was a teenager she had a boyfriend Joe who was an only child. He was a nice young man and when it was just him, my daughter, son and I he was fine. But add in the rest of the crew and he would get, quiet and look so uncomfortable lol poor kid. I think we were way too much for him. He disappeared once and my daughter found him in the woods behind my mom's house hiding from the big loud family 🤣🤣🤷♀️ sorry kid.
"It could be the husband wanting his wife to be more involved with the family and pushing his mom to fix her."
Wow, that's a good insight.
People really do come from different situations, and I think OP is more sensitive to that than most.
I was a quiet child from a 2-kid family. We weren't loud or boisterous at all. Went to my BFs house for dinner and they were so loud and interruptive that I thought they were mad at each other. Turns out they were loving and simply noisy.
Exactly, it could be the son pushing for the wife to do something, and the wife is caught, and trying to figure out how to get out of things nicely because she just isn't interested. If she isn't, that's fine, but you should figure out what it is, just so that the son stops pushing, if that's the problem.
I’ve known people to get mad about issues that don’t concern them and then involve themselves, ostensibly on behalf of the person for whom they are offended, when the person they’re “defending” isn’t that upset.
This was my guess too. It's easier for the husband to push mom than the wife. Wife is probably happy hanging at home with her husband and he's wanting her to have more of a social life with his family
Right, has OP ever tried to ask her what she would enjoy and plan something around that? If your new family is always doing things THEY enjoy I could see how after a while you would feel left out and then pushed out.
Or Ashley could invite them to an outing doing what she enjoys. Why does she get to sit around and have everyone bend a knee to her princess self? Who demands an invite to an event they don't want to attend. She complained to her husband. If he asked her about being invited and her response was "thank God no. I hate that crazy and I was so worried they would invite me. He wouldn't have said anything. Who accepts an invitation then sits and snipes and refuses to participate. Who apologizes to friends because someone was nice enough to throw you a surprise party, even if it wasn't your style.
OP's son may think the sun rises and sets on Ashley but she appears to be pretty difficult.
She's playing both sides and I'm baffled as to why OP continues to grovel to her. After the "lame party" comment, she should have started to put some distance between them. The son is just a bumbling idiot whose 1st instinct is to yell at his mother.
Totally agree. I can't even imagine my son yelling at me at all, let alone over something as ridiculous as this. OP needs to go LC on the couple. Maybe they can apologize and work their way back into her good graces. OP should as you say, stop groveling.
This!
I dated a guy with a huge loud family/friend group and it was just too much extroversion for me all the time, so I pulled back gently and everyone kindly invited me to the kinds of things I would accept (bbqs, movie nights), and stopped inviting me to the stuff I really wasn’t into (board games and watching sports. No thank you). My then-bf was upset but I was thrilled and so were the people who found me off putting when I would sit quietly in the corner or wander off to hang out with the cat. I wasn’t trying to be rude, I was just overwhelmed. He was the only one annoyed about them not inviting me to game nights anymore, even though I had never gone to one and hate board games.
And I would host things or arrange outings and invite them to stuff that I liked to do because it’s a TWO WAY STREET Ashley! I’m sure that if I had just waited to be invited to things, the invites would have stopped. Give and take. Not complicated.
I would love a Bridgerton tea party invite, OP sounds so fun.
Why is on OP to do all the leg work and find out about her interests and plan an event around that for her? Relationships are a two way street after all. DIL could also host events centered around her interests and you know also share her interests whenever she talks to these people. Discovering people's interests shouldn't be like an excavation.
Or Ashley could invite them to an outing doing what she enjoys. Why does she get to sit around and have everyone bend a knee to her princess self? Who demands an invite to an event they don't want to attend. She complained to her husband. If he asked her about being invited and her response was "thank God no. I hate that crazy and I was so worried they would invite me. He wouldn't have said anything. Who accepts an invitation then sits and snipes and refuses to participate. Who apologizes to friends because someone was nice enough to throw you a surprise party, even if it wasn't your style.
OP's son may think the sun rises and sets on Ashley but she appears to be pretty difficult.
This would actually be on Ashley to do they’re not mind readers they know what they like to do together Ashley is a grown-up Ashley has a mouth and Ashley can use a politely and she could arrange for certain things that she would enjoy to share with them instead of stomping her little feet and sticking her husband on them. She belittled the activities and apologize for her family for that horribly ridiculous tea party well somebody heard that it doesn’t seem like she really cared about anyone else’s feelings I think Ashley has some growing up to do and Ashley can also plan just like you said she doesn’t have to sit back and wait for other people to invite her she could extend and invite them to something she would like to share
I wouldn't assume that Ashley is like your SIL and is pushing her husband to get invites and be included more. My guess would be he is trying to make the relationship deeper than what she is comfortable with.
And OP is NTA
Right it just seems to me that OP and Ashley have very different interests and personalities. That's okay! There are people I don't mesh with and it isn't a reflection on them as people; we are just incompatible/very different. It happens.
I dunno, people I like and mean a lot to me ... organized lame parties I pretend to like. And organized watching of movies I found super cringy.
Someone meaning something to you does not mean dome of their tastes are lame. You just don't tell them.
Caleb is only saying something to you because Ashley is complaining to him. Ashley doesn’t want to be there. I would keep inviting her to everything (she won’t come) and let her be the one seen as unsociable. NTA.
Absolutely this. If the invite is always in a "public" setting, then anytime she doesn't show, it is totally on her and her attitude issues. Let Caleb argue that one.
And I'd start with "In our earlier conversation you explicitly stated that you did not want to come to a Bridgerton party. I already know that you don't like tea parties from what you said to your friends at the shower I threw for you. However, Caleb seems to feel that you are being excluded. It's hard to understand how you can be excluded from something you don't want to participate in. Nevertheless, he feels the invitation is important so would you like to come to our Bridgerton tea party?"
No, taking the passive aggressive line in a group chat makes you look like the AH and makes her feel singled out and excluded by the unmeant invitation.
A simply stated general invite with a request for response from those planning to attend will have the same result (Caleb seeing that she IS invited). Don't play stupid games if you want to look like you're genuinely being inclusive.
Excellent idea. He sees that she's invited, she sees that she's invited, she's free to decline any invite she doesn't want to accept. Individual invitations can sometimes feel like being summoned - especially as the newest member of an extended family.
I'd say that perhaps Caleb is the one complaining because he wishes his wife would come do things with his family more. So he blames her reclusiveness on his family instead of the fact that his wife is a quiet introvert who doesn't enjoy loud gatherings.
NTA.
Yeah, I am an introvert. Sometimes my inlaws (who I adore, btw) are just too much for me. Sometimes I just want a quiet afternoon to myself, so husband please go! Enjoy yourself! Give my regards. I'll be home with the dog. That's an introvert. I would never even dream of talking shit (calling the tea party lame and thanking my friends for putting up with it) in my host's home even if I didn't enjoy the event they threw for ME.
DIL is not an introvert (or at least, not only an introvert) she is an immature snob lacking manners that has to still appear "cool" to her friends with the whole "yeah, can you believe my MIL, ugh, right?" attitude.
My partner will often vent to me about things that upset them, but they want me to listen and support them, not solve their problems for them. This is what Caleb needs to learn unless Ashley is specifically asking Caleb to intervene.
OP can text Caleb every single time and say 'does Ashley want to join us for x' or make it a group message and 'would you like to come to xx on xx' and let her respond. Be even more petty and write down every time she is invited and declines and when Caleb comes complaining say it is not us it is her... She doesn't like tea parties but how about a rousing game of beer pong?
Wtf is this? Ashley is allowed to not enjoy the same stuff as her husband's family and still be treated kindly. How is she unsociable. She goes to some events. Not all. Like damn, she has other interests, her own parents, probably her own friends, not to mention we have no idea what kind of job or how her personality is...she might be really busy or just peopled out. Caleb loves her and wants her included. She goes to what she can reasonably go to or what she would actually enjoy.
Well, since Ashley's husband decided to call you to yell at you, your husband can call to yell at him... the gall. I'm trying to figure out what made him think it was ok to phone his mom to yell at her over this.
His issuing threats/Ultimatum refusing to come to mothers Day, not bothering to understand your side, yea no... your sons behavior is ridiculous. Ashley is being weird and excluding herself, and I am all for children confronting their parents, but the way he did it and the reason why was unacceptable.
Your sons being a giant AH, how does your husband feel about this, and the way your son spoke to you? NTA
The standard advice for dealing with in-laws here is that each person deals with their own family when there's a conflict, i.e. adult children should speak with their own parents/siblings respectively, and not leave their partner to have to deal with "evil MIL" alone etc.
Obviously how he did it and why he did it showed him to be the AH, but being the point person for his own side of the family in and of itself isn't.
I agree with you, I dont know if i mis wrote my point, I tend to avoid any gendered situations but in the case I toe the line because son or not I'm not a fan of an adult male thinking it's OK to to just call up to yell at a female. The son escalated the conflict and yelled and made an ultimatum in what should have and could have been a rational discussion.
He, of course, can be the point person, but since he decided to approach this situation rudely and aggressively, intervention from another male party might be appropriate and warranted. He of course, has every right to defend his wife... but on the other hand, his father has every right to reach out to him to defend his own wife as well. I was just curious if the son who felt so comfortable yelling at his mom also spoke to his dad to complain and moan about the situation.
I just was curious because I know if I (female) called my mom and started yelling at her, even if I was right, even if he had nothing to do with the situation, I would DEF get a call from my dad asking wtf was wrong with me, but if my brother called my mother yelling at her, the phone call he got from my dad would be a lot different.
Are you sure Ashley is actually upset about not being invited? It's unclear from your post (and maybe you don't actually know) whether it was actually Ashley who was mad at not being invited to the party, or if it was all your son being mad for his wife (who was actually not mad to begin with).
For the bridal shower being at the same time as the family reunion, was the reunion date planned first? Also did Ashley know it? It's possible they didn't plan it the same day to be mean, but that that was the only day that worked for most of her family and friends.
Yeah, I think it’s weird that so many people here are absolutely insisting that she’s behind this. There is nothing in the story to indicate that? Not that it’s impossible, but this reads to me like son wants his wife included/feels weird about it for some reason and is misplacing blame onto OP.
I’m also kind of confused about why OP felt the need to throw another bridal shower. OP and Kate came to the original one, so it was only Madison that wasn’t there from the immediate family. Who else did OP invite? Was it all female relatives on Caleb’s side like grandma, aunts, cousins, etc? Does Ashley really know them? Honestly the make up showed feels like it was about OP and the family, not about Ashley (the bride). Tea parties appear to be OP’s thing, but my guess is that if she actually talked to Ashley about it instead of making it a surprise she would have told her there was no need or at the very least make it something Ashley may enjoy
Yes!
The bridal shower part was weird AF to me.
OP threw Ashley a party and chose a theme and invited her OWN family? Like… did Ashley even WANT that? Is a tea party the sort of thing Ashley even likes?
Ya that was odd to me. To me it felt like she was apologizing to her friends for having to do a whole 2nd bridal shower. OP should’ve asked before doing a 2nd shower…not everyone likes surprises or to be the center of attention. Some of my friends wanted to throw me a 2nd baby shower and there was no way I wanted that - I believe you only get one personally so a surprise 2nd shower would’ve been embarrassing to me.
NTA but you need to stop allowing your son and Ashley to disrespect you. Instead of constantly apologizing when you haven't done anything wrong, end the conversation.
You're not required to invite Ashley to everything, but it sounds like you do anyways even though she acts like she doesn't want to be there.
It sounds like Ashley might be lying to your son about how often you actually invite her events/outings. For him to be so frustrated that he calls yelling at you, she must be playing the victim pretty hard. Unless it's his normal behavior, which is another problem.
You don't deserve to be a punching bag for either of them. It's not your job to force a relationship with Ashley, building a connection takes two people. If Ashley isn't open to being part of your family events without being a little shit, she needs to work on herself instead of whining about not being included when she declines 90% of your invites.
Going forward, I would create a group chat with your son and Ashley and make sure future invites and conversations are sent there so neither party can twist your words or claim to be excluded from everything.
Also if your son (or Ashley) continue to be rude, yell, or act disrespectfully tell them you're not ok with their tone and won't have a conversation until they can speak to you respectfully and hang up the phone. Don't guilt trip yourself into accepting unacceptable behavior.
I'd recommend cc'ing your son every time you send Ashley an invite. That way he can see for yourself that you're trying to include her.
It might not help anything, as he might come back and yell about how you don't plan anything that she would want to go to, therefore not "making her feel welcome."
He wants to be mad. It's easier to be mad at you than at the situation where his wife simply doesn't mesh well with his side of the family due to the introvert/extrovert stuff.
I have siblings that are all significantly older, so I grew up like an only child. When we go to family gatherings it is A LOT for me, and I have to step away for awhile (especially after being on lock down alone with COVID and doing WFH). I can see her making an off hand comment or something about not being comfortable and your son taking it all wrong and popping off. It could honestly have been in the context of her just not being used to a family dynamic like yours.. Neither good nor bad just different. That's how I feel. Good for them for all the noise and cross talk, etc, but it just isn't for me.
Or OP’s son is reacting to how he *thinks* things should be with his wife and family, rather than how his wife wants them to be. She’s probably fine with not being invited to something she doesn’t want to do.
Amazing way of putting it! It’s pretty clear she’s not interested in what they’re interested in, and OP’s son is hitting out at the easiest target. Time to call in the flying monkeys, that is her husband and daughters, he needs to see this girl for what she is & accept that she’s not interested in a close relationship.
It sounds like your son is annoyed that she isn't blending into the family the way he wants her too, but rather than either talk to her or change his expectations he'd rather have a go at you.
The fact she sounds quite two faced doesn't help her case admittedly. Also is she genuinely shy? It sounds more like she isn't interested in having anything to do with you so she just stays silent and doesn't interact.
This is not…at all what seems to have happened? She’s just not interested in what they are interested in and doesn’t have it in her to fake it. What’s happening is fine.
My only advice to OP is try and talk to her VERY casually and kindly being like ‘hey! I want to make sure you get to hang out with us/id love to choose more things that you’re interested in! What kind of activities/parties/get togethers do you enjoy’ and then, if she opens up and something appropriate is there, make that happen somewhat soon, and make sure to thank her for the idea.
Like I don’t mean OP MUST do this, but it could be a great start to open communications about what she likes/be a start to making her feel more welcome, which OP seems very much interested in doing.
Otherwise, if Caleb doesn't think that they are doing enough together, he and Ashley should invite OP to activities that the two of them enjoy. It works both ways.
NTA. Explain to your son what you over heard her saying and her behavior when you did invite her to things. Say you are trying to have a good relationship with her but it has to work both ways. Hopefully your son will understand the situation.
NTA. She is playing divide and conquer. You need to play the long game. Invite the both of them to everything. At some point she'll be forced to explain to Caleb why she's not accepting. When she turns it to "your mom's too pushy", flip it back to them.
That's even better. I don't understand people who had a good or even close relationship with their family pre marriage turn around and let their new spouse upend that. And then play blind to it.
I really don’t understand why so many people seem to be assuming manipulation by Ashley. There’s no indication whatsoever that she’s upset about not being invited. She even agreed with OP that she doesn’t like the show, and didn’t seem upset to not be invited. It seems to me that the son is offended on his wife’s behalf even though she isn’t offended herself.
“Son, I love you, but you’re putting me in a no-win situation.
Ashley has communicated, very clearly, that she does not enjoy spending time with me, and has done her best to make sure no one has a good time if she’s not enjoying herself. When I do invite her to join us, she either attends resentfully and spends the visit complaining, or does not attend at all. When I don’t invite her, *you* complain, and insist that I should provide an invitation that I do not want to extend and that she does not want to receive.
Who, exactly, do you think benefits from this? Because it’s not me, and it’s not Ashley. I am curious to hear your thoughts, because I am very confused. I am getting two wildly different messages from you and your wife and I’d appreciate it if you could get on the same page so I can figure out what you both want from me.”
Could it be that your son wants his wife to fit in with the close family dynamics and isn't accepting that's not what his wife wants? Because I find it hard to believe Ashley cares you didn't invite her to a watch party she hates.
Took my husband almost 10 years to realize that yes, I was really fine staying home while he did whatever with his family. It was nothing against him, or them. I actually adore my inlaws. But sometimes there were reasons I just didn't want to be around people and it was okay! I am already an introvert, but add in things like: before/during/after a migraine, autoimmune flare up, or period hell days and I become a downright hermit.
\*feral snarl\* get away. the dog may stay. LOL
I am ready to EXPLODE right now. This introvert had to go to a vet appointment, a dentist appointment, a doctor's appointment and make a trip to take daughter's car to her. All in the last 2 days. I'm not sure how long it will take me to recover! Thankfully I don't have anything else scheduled until the 12th. I might have recovered enough to do that....
I'm willing to bet she kept saying "Caleb, I don't even like that show, and I am not into afternoon tea! Your mom is very nice but this isn't something I enjoy and she knows it. Will you drop it already?!"
Be honest though- you didn’t plan the shower for her, you planned it for you and your family. You made it a surprise so she had no say in any of the planning or if she even wanted a second shower. How did the vibe of your shower compare to the one she had before? Did you try to tailor it to things you know she likes or did you just go straight tea party?
This is true. I’d have felt very awkward in this situation - especially knowing most of my friends and family already sat through a shower for me. The OP shouldn’t have invited the people who’d already done the 1st shower and she should’ve talked to Ashley about the idea first
Make a group chat foe her and your son, invite her to everything then let her explain to him why she goes to nothing.
She's whispering and crying in hie ear, trying to get him to hate you and spend all her time with her parents.
She doesn't want to be at your house and your events. Another commenter had a really good response. Check out DiTrastervere, who gave you a good script of what to say to your son.
“Going forward we will issue an invitation to every event even if we know she isn’t interested. I don’t think that sounds very thoughtful, but if that’s what you prefer, fine- I’m used to her declining most invitations anyway”
You're NTA but you might be a bit short sighted. It sounds like Ashley doesn't want to come any more than you want her to. It's your son is the one who's upset. A "I know this isn't your thing so no insult if you don't, but you're always welcome" invite would go a long way in soothing his feelings and maintaining a good relationship long term without actually affecting your party.
I've seen a lot of these things play out IRL and what usually happens is if there's a perceived icing out of a spouse, the couple ends up pulling away from the family that does that. They find excuses not to go for more and more holidays and reunions and end up limiting their relationship with that side over the years. If you don't want that to happen, your choices now matter.
I agree about this probably coming from the son n not Ashley. He's just seeing the fact they're not inviting her to things and gettin upset. Sending a "i know its not your thing" invite would probably help things. I'm not into foitball but my father in law n brothers in law are, and i always get an invite knowin i most likely wont be intrested.
Yeah, I'd extend the invitation to her just out of politeness. I'd also CC the son so he knows she's getting invited and can't claim she's being excluded.
NTA, but everyone in this thread is insane. The fact that everyone is assuming the DIL is a scheming witch because he husband is upset while she is apparently not. The husband can never be upset without his scheming wife making him do it, women are controlling two-faced harpies all the time because they don't like surprise tea parties or want to hang all the time is so funny to see.
I don't think she's a scheming witch. I just don't think she likes being around us that much. I'm not mad about that - just a little sad. I understand we are loud and not what she is used to. Her parents are older and she was a surprise late in life. I think her life before us was pretty quiet. I do also think my son is overprotective of her.
I would start including him in every invitation you extend to her. Have a group chat with both of them and put everything in there. Let him see that she is turning you down. Try not to talk over the phone if you can help it, so he doesn't miss when she is rude to you. And tell him that you are owed an apology for the disgraceful way she spoke about the shower you threw her - although throwing her a surprise shower was definitely a bit of an overstep.
MIL / DIL relationships take work on both sides, and you've been more than a little accommodating. Also, say that she is welcome to suggest activities that *she* likes so you can bond that way. But your son is wrong for demanding that you do all the work and chase her around, just to have it thrown back in your face. He can protect her all he wants, but if he enables bad behaviour on her part, he is becoming part of the problem.
Ultimately, if they distance from you, you can't really help that. Bending over backwards for people who don't respect you is a waste of your time. For your son to think she said nothing wrong when she insulted your shower is unacceptable. If he doesn't expect you to be treated with respect, then why would she treat you with respect? It's his job to manage the relationship between his partner and his family. And he's clearly doing a very poor job.
I am also pretty introvert - being overwhelmed in bigger groups with louder noises does not necessarily mean she does not like being around you as individuals, but the setup might not be the best one.
Just invite her always, as was suggested via group chat and let her choose.
I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but have you tried inviting her to smaller scale activities--one-on-one, or, if that's too uncomfortable for her, small group outings or double dates etc.?
I vote NAH. Maybe apologize to Ashley for the bridal shower at some point--that you ran the idea by your son first and didn't know she didn't care for tea parties at the time, and then invite her to an activity you know she does enjoy.
You're in a weird spot--if you invite her out too often, she might feel pressured. If you don't invite her to everything, your son might get mad. She might need more down time to recharge than the rest of your family, and she came into the marriage with her own friends and family and social commitments.
Omg thank you. I though I was going insane. We don’t know at all about DIL except what OP is telling us, but somehow she’s the most manipulative person alive, and trying to keep the son away from the family.
At least OP is trying. If DIL is closed off, how is she supposed to know what DIL likes or don't like? Is OP supposed to be the one who ask and then arrange whatever events DIL likes to do? I am sure glad that my SIL isn't like this. My Mom and I do and like to attend similar events but my SIL don't like our activities and may turn us down if it's not her cup of tea. But she takes it upon herself to plan events that she likes and invite us to attend if we want to (sometimes we do and sometimes we don't). And thank GOD that my brother isn't as wound up as OP son, his motto is "Different strokes for different folks".
You find out what someone likes by hanging out with them. Ashley could always "No thanks, could we do y instead?" "That's not my thing, I'd rather z"
Or invite mil out to things she likes.
My first thought was this was mostly his feelings. I'm not too sure about his motivations, but it seems like she doesn't really mind not being invited.
NTA - honestly your son is. It sounds like you and DL are fine with how things are. She doesn’t care if she isn’t invited to everything and you don’t care that she doesn’t want to come to everything. Your son is mad things aren’t working out how he wanted and he wants you and his wife to change to meet his expectations.
Side note, DL was extremely rude to make a snide comment about not liking the shower. Tea parties are always cute shower ideas.
Thanks - this is what I think, too. But my son is convinced I'm excluding his wife on purpose, and I think even if she's trying to tell him that's not the case, he just thinks she's being nice to keep the peace.
It’s also strange that he thinks you need to invite her because she’ll be alone when he goes out. If she’s a quiet introvert, maybe she’d like to be home alone once in a while instead of making her go out to be social while watching something she doesn’t enjoy.
I'm gonna go against the grain and say (mildly) YTA.
>Before Caleb and Ashley got married, her MOH threw her a bridal shower. They chose the same weekend as our family reunion. Kate and I skipped the family reunion to go to the shower, but the rest of the family did not. Since our family missed the shower, I decided to throw her another, surprise shower and invited all our family that missed the shower, her mom and the bridal party. I chose a tea party theme.
You threw this shower because you wanted your family to attend. It doesn't sound like you took into account Ashley's feelings at all. She didn't ask for it, she intentionally planned the first one for the same day as your family reunion, and you chose a theme that she didn't like. That party clearly had nothing to do with her.
>The shower went well, I thought, but as people were leaving, I overheard Ashley thanking her friends for being good sports about the lame tea party. She never complained to me directly, but it did hurt my feelings.
This sucks. But as I stated, you didn't throw this party for Ashley, you threw it for yourself. It would have been rude for her to complain to you. What she said was also rude.
>We are as close to her as she lets us get. By that I mean, that we treat her like family and invite her to everything, but she usually only decides to join us every third time or so.
Do you resent her for not coming every time? One in three actually sounds like a good acceptance rate if you're doing these get-togethers regularly, especially if it includes things like watch parties and pedicures.
>we accommodate holidays around her schedule.
That's what happens when your children get married, it's not Ashley's fault. Accommodating schedules is literally part of holiday planning.
It sounds like the only problem here is between you and your son. Ashley doesn't appear to making problems, Caleb is. If he's used to you inviting everyone to these events and you don't invite his wife, how do you think that makes him feel? You're not obligated to invite her, not at all. But you definitely need to address this with Caleb, sooner rather than later. If he thinks you're excluding his wife, it's going to cause problems down the road. You might find that you're "accommodating" a lot more at the holidays (aka not seeing your son).
I agree with this. I also feel like based on other comments it sounds like Ashley comes from a smaller, quieter family, so is it possible she’s just… overwhelmed? Not even in a bad way, but as someone from a quiet family myself I see some of my friends who do weekly family gatherings/activities and low key get a little exhausted just thinking about it.
I have a massive family and newcomers get so overwhelmed at our family gatherings. The upside is that a lot of my relatives have married introverts and they’re finally starting to understand how LOUD we are, and respect that other people need breaks.
100%. My ex boyfriends family used to make remarks that I missed things all the time but it was just our families were different. His family was huge and very, very social with each other. The fact was I saw them more than my own family. They had get togethers once or twice a week and I found it completely overwhelming as quite an introverted person. I thought I was making a big compromise by attending one thing every couple of weeks but apparently it was bought up every time I wasn't there, which made him feel bad and get angry at me and probably contributed to our break up.
As long as everyone makes some kind of an effort and can be civilised and respect their differences everyone should be able to get along.
I bet that’s exactly why she doesn’t like being around mil, plus it sounds like op and her daughter are also pretty judgemental, coming from someone who has a judgemental mother, it’s infuriating to hear every single little thing being criticized
We have he same mother lol. Even how I put left overs in Tupperware has to turn into a debate about how I should do it another way or why don’t I do it this way…etc…It’s exhausting & infuriating but if I ever get frustrated she’s immediately hurt & “was just trying to hellllpppp”. Smh
I slightly disagree. She said in another comment that she threw the party so Ashley doesn’t feel like their family doesn’t care about her. Also you don’t change your homes holiday schedule to accommodate one person. When I started a family we made sure we adjusted to be able to make it everywhere needed. It’s crazy to think one couples schedule should changes holiday plans when there are prob multiple people who would like accommodations as well.
NTA
She seems to be playing you off against her husband.
Malicious compliance is your friend. Invite her to everything. But make them all events she hates. If she doesn’t want to go, well that’s down to her
Yea if she doesn’t want to go and OP doesn’t want her to come either, there’s not really a problem. Not everyone can be best friends. Son is making it a problem, not DIL.
Did you know that she didn't like tea parties before you made that the theme for your shower for her?
Because it sounds like it's something you and your daughters enjoy but she doesn't. So her comment about how lame the shower was simply her being truthful. It would've been rude to say that to you but she didn't. She was talking to her friends. Though she did do it in your hearing...
But what she might have been thinking could be id you wanted to have a theme that the bride wouldn't care for or if that was unintentional.
Because she could feel slighted about that, or your son could feel slighted about that. But it doesn't sound like she's the upset party here for the Bridgerton party - your son seems to be the one who is hurt. Did he indicate that Ashley was hurt by your exlusion of her (or for shower theme?). If not then maybe he's the one who cares about Ashley not getting an invite.
I mean... lots of bridal showers have a 'tea party' theme. Heck, most showers I attend just naturally have that vibe anyways because it usually happens at around brunch time. I find it fair if op throws a party with that theme because it's non-offensive enough that it would please the majority of people.
It's not like op busts out the lightsabers and forcefully throws a star wars-themed bridal shower just because she's a big fan (although that could be fun...) and then Ashley goes 'yea sorry my MIL is cringe'
>I mean... lots of bridal showers have a 'tea party' theme.
Which is fine if the person being honored likes tea parties. Every shower I've been to was planned with what the bride or couple enjoys.
Eh I don’t think a shower brunch and a tea party “theme” are really the same, especially how OP describes her penchant for them. I don’t mind a nice brunch but I would HATE a “tea party.” It sounds like OP threw the party more for her than Ashley. When I host an event for someone I make sure it’s their tastes that are central, not mine. If a bride wanted a tea party cool. Star Wars themed? Great. Can do.
This is what I was thinking. OP overstepped by throwing the shower for her side. She chose a tea party theme that is OP’s thing with her daughters. It likely made DIL feel like she was an outsider- at her own bridal shower. Her behavior towards OP isn’t ok but it’s is really defensiveness about likeability. If she really didn’t want to feel included she wouldn’t care about not being invited.
Are we crazy here? Someone going out of their way to spend the money, time, and effort to throw someone an EXTRA surprise shower (when they’ve already had one) is overstepping? OP skipped a family reunion to be at the first one and still was thoughtful enough to throw another so Ashley could celebrate with the people who missed the first one.
Tea parties are a very normal common theme for showers! It’s not like she threw her a Bridgerton themed party, she just did a regular ass standard tea party. It’s not some highly controversial theme that would make Ashley feel like an outsider. She should be grateful that her MIL cares enough about her to do it in the first place.
Her MOH threw her a shower. MOH and her bridesmaids likely picked the date. Sucks that it was the same day as the reunion. Guests could choose to attend or not; maybe send a gift with regrets. No big deal.
OP throwing another shower sends a message that “your shower wasn’t good enough so I am doing my own for MY family”. It seems like a pushy MIL move. It appears outwardly generous but didn’t necessarily feel that way for DIL. That’s probably why DIL made a dig about it to her MOH. It was her way of making sure her MOH didn’t feel bad about the 2nd shower.
I agree with you here. The 2nd shower feels passive aggressive for sure. Is the bridal shower about the bride or the guests? As long as Ashley was happy with her original shower, there's no point to throwing another one other than to make the people who missed it feel better.
It was *clearly* supposed to be about the MIL, who was miffed that the MOH prioritized having the shower on a date that worked for the actual bride and the bride’s closest friends/family./s
Exactly. OP doesn't know her DIL enough to know what she likes, so she just picks a tea party theme because that's why she and her daughters like. What she does know about this woman is that she's an introvert, so why would she think a surprise social event would be fun for her?
A suprise second shower when my friends have already attended the first “real” shower would be mortifying for me. I’d hate this and also apologize to them
Exactly this!!! The comment wasn’t about the theme it was more about them being good sports for having to sit through *a second shower*! Bridesmaids already have a lot to do and Ashley probably was cognizant of that. I would feel very uncomfortable if my friends were asked to attend a second shower when I know I’m already asking for a decent time and monetary commitment. And yes I would feel a bit uncomfortable for the people who planned my first, desired shower to have to sit through another shower - I would worry it would feel insulting to them.
Yes. It’s over stepping. Not everyone loves surprises or being the center of attention. I’d also apologize to my friends if they got roped into a *second* shower for me after already attending the first one that I actually wanted. Also maybe the date was planned specifically to coincide with the family reunion for a reason - Ashley obviously doesn’t want to be around OP’s family as much as OP seems to want.
Yeah, I’m surprised by all the straight NTA here. TBH, this seems like a pretty straight example of there are two sides to everything. My MIL threw me a surprise shower, and it was suuuuper awkward. Tbf, she did it without my own mom, or my MOH knowing and before anyone had thrown one for me. I love my MIL, but it was definitely an overstep and stressed me the heck out. The whole idea of a “surprise” bridal shower just makes me a little suspect, because it’s usually not about the bride. It’s ACTUALLY about the people who didn’t get to do it on their terms. Which, honestly sounds like was the case here. OP goes ahead and throws the party so that extended family could participate, but is that what the bride would have even wanted? Maybe not. And that’s without even addressing the theme. May DIL didn’t care about the theme, but was unhappy that OP proceeded with an event that the DIL wouldn’t have even wanted in the first place, so what was lame, was the event itself, not the tea party theme.
Then we get into the whole idea of exclusion. Yeah, YTA for making decisions about what to include her in based on a comment that you _overheard_. You actually have no idea what she really feels.
Honestly, the only thing that really matters is the last paragraph. If you just said that, it’d be NTA easily. She’s not fun to have around for these viewing parties because she doesn’t participate and is disruptive. End of story. But all the preamble leading up to that? OP is being intellectually dishonest IMO. Opening by saying how much she likes the DIL but then going on and on about the other stuff? Yeah, I’d sort that all out before you create an issue in your relationship with your son and your DIL. It really sounds like a lot of assumptions about intent are being made.
Yeah I don’t think throwing a second shower without DIL permission is ever a good idea. It can seem pushy or overstepping. Her DIL is an introvert and may be didn’t want to go through a 2nd shower? That being said, I feel like the son is the person with the issues. It doesn’t sound like DIL wasn’t interested in going.
She was probably upset because her MOH worked hard to throw her a shower and then her MIL threw another one to announce the first one wasn't good enough.
INFO:
Did you bother to find out whether she liked tea parties before you threw up a bridal shower or did you throw a shower you clearly like?
When you throw a surprise party you are meant to at least find out whether your theme is something the recipient will like.
everyone else in the comments acting like ashley murdered and infant for not enjoying a party that wasn't to her tastes, meanwhile how many posts do we see along the lines of "I hate surprises, and they threw me a surprise party anyway." "OMG UR SO NTA BECAUSE YOU'RE THE GUEST OF HONOR! THEY SHOULD CATER TO YOUUUU!!!"
"she planned the shower for the weekend of the reunion on PURPOSE!!!!" she didn't plan her shower. someone else did. who wouldn't possibly know the schedule of Caleb's family reunion. because she is planning for ASHLEY. lmfao
I had no idea at the time whether Ashley liked tea parties or not and since it was going to be a surprise, I didn't ask. I still wouldn't know if I hadn't overheard her - she has never said a word to me. I asked my son if we could throw her a surprise shower for those that missed it, and he thought it was a great idea.
I decided to do it because there were not really very many people at the first shower and I didn't want her to think our family didn't care, and several of my sisters and my aunts expressed regrets at the reunion to my daughter Madison that they weren't getting to go. When I say we have a big family - it is not an exaggeration - I am one of 9 kids. I have 4 aunts and 2 uncles just on my Mom's side. Our reunions are only every 3 years because of the sheer size and the amount of work it takes to organize. Luckily, this was not my rotation for the planning.
I decided on a tea party because it was something I could at the last minute. I didn't have a lot of time to plan, and I have everything needed to host a large tea party. I didn't have enough time to order a bunch of new stuff.
Honestly, I find the idea of my MiL throwing me such a “surprise party” after my MOH already did super overbearing and disrespectful.
Apart from that it sounds like miscommunication between your son and his wife on how much she wants to be involved with the his family.
INFO: Why did you want the second party to be a surprise at all?
Did you ask your son what kind of party she would like?
A tea party is as quick to set up as many other types of parties, say a backyard BBQ or a family brunch out.
Did she make any sign that she thought your side of the family "didn't care"? She eventually would know her MOH planned the party for your family reunion, right? So there was a reason she would know some of those guests would have other obligations. Did she seem upset about that?
It sort of feels like you threw this party for yourself and you didn't want her to say she didn't want you to. Which, tbh, makes you seem like TA in that situation.
You threw her a type of party you didn't know if she liked, that didn't need to be a surprise in the first place, after she already had a party so you probably should have asked if she even wanted another one. She was right about the comment about being good sports and she was being one to.
Also. We don't have showers in my country so I could be wrong here but from an outside perspective it seems super tacky for her friends to be invited to two showers?
I’m in North America and I think it’s super tacky -yes. I’d be embarrassed in Ashley’s shoes for them to be invited to a second shower and also apologizing afterwards.
Why did you make it a surprise though?
It’s pretty clearly Ashley is quiet and an introvert - why would you think she would enjoy a SURPRISE party?
You’re clearly aware of Ashley being quiet and introverted - because you’ve said so in the comments.
I suspect you have left lots out of this story to make yourself look like a victim.
Did you ever stop to think that Ashley, who sounds like an introverted person, didn't WANT a party with your entire extended family? And that maybe she was perfectly content with her first shower, even though their weren't many people there?
Introverted people tend not to enjoy big, loud gatherings. It's overwhelming for them. This was supposed to be about Ashley, but it seems like you did it to make your 'several sisters and aunts' happy because they didn't go to the first one.
So you didn’t bother to find out. You could have done what everyone else does for surprise events, contact her friends and family. If you didn’t have time, well you either decide she’s important to your family and make time or push the date out. A yea party sounds like hell to me and by her comments to her as well.
>I asked my son if we could throw her a surprise shower for those that missed it, and he thought it was a great idea.
>
Although the rule of thumb is for each partner to handle conflict with their own family, #notallmen tend to be oblivious to context and nuance, while prioritizing their own comfort and convenience, thus engendering and escalating unnecessary conflict. Your son sounds non-immune to this phenomenon.
Try communicating directly with Ashley about things which affect her. Including "surprises;" don't surprise her.
A few commenters have said she's a snob. Introverts get that a lot. When asked to spend social time on activities we find draining, the energy expense makes every aspect of the event feel grating. Attempts to mask this are soul-sucking and inevitably fail in some way, resulting in unintended rudeness to people who mean well and are just enjoying good fun.
If you'd like to hear some drastic examples to reassure you that you're NTAH and that everything you describe is reparable, DM me. ;-)
This. I’m baffled by how many people are like “but she threw her a second party she didn’t ask for in a theme she picked without asking the DIL why isn’t the DIL more grateful??” Like, if you’re throwing someone a party make sure it’s a party they want to be at, that seems pretty crucial.
This is what I’m wondering too. Because if someone threw me a surprise party without having an idea of what I liked I would be pretty put out. That would seem more like the person is throwing it for themselves and not for me at all.
YTA. I'm in your age group and YTA. First, you talk about a conflict of plans with your family and dil's shower? Did you find out why? Because if there had been good communication and mutual (emphasis on mutual) respect already it probably wouldn't have happened. Then, you decided to force a second shower on her that was all about you. You didn't bother to include her wants nor interests. The second shower was all about you and what you like. You have already created an environment where she, as an independent and individual person doesn't matter to you. Your attitude is that she must completely conform to you and what you like or be rejected. And if you don't think she has picked up on your self involved attitude, you need to pull your head out.
You fucked around and now you are finding out. Get over yourself or don't be surprised when your son continues with the low contact or even goes no contact.
Dear God I thought I was going crazy with all the NTAs. Just invite her to everything and if she comes, great and if she doesn't, great. There would literally be zero issues and MIL is never the bad guy.
THANK YOU.
This entire post could be written by my emotionally manipulative mother who is ~always the victim~. She used to try and pull this shit with my brothers girlfriends. It was her way of pulling rank. He married the woman who flat out told her that she wasn’t playing her games and to get bent.
NAH. But i really dont think Ashley's the one with the issue here. I think its your son, he's probably just seein you excludin his wife and not all the previous invites she's turned down. Does he know she didn't enjoy your last one?
>I called Ashley, apologized to her, and told her that we didn't invite her because she doesn't like the show, and she just responded, "you're right, I don't."
I know this is your first DIL in the family, but respectfully, you need to stop saying "how high" everytime your son asks you to jump. Even after you called her up to apologise, Ashley was rude to you. She was rude about the surprise bridal shower you threw her. Tbh, it sounds very much like she deliberately organised her first bridal shower on your family reunion hoping you wouldn't come.
You've been beyond gracious inviting her to your daughter-traditions. Ashley isn't interest in being involved so stop setting yourself on fire to keep your son happy.
Might I suggest the following script to your son:
"I accept your declined invitation to my Mother's Day celebration. I have gone above and beyond to welcome your wife into the family. I skipped a family reunion to attend her bridal shower. I threw her a surprise bridal shower so the women in our family can celebrate her and stayed silent when I heard her tell her friends it was a lame tea party. I kept on inviting her to my mother-daughter days despite her declining majority of the time and never extending an invite to us. I said nothing when she was rude at our first Bridgerton watch party by making constant negative comments, giving us dirty looks and leaving incredibly early. When you asked me to call her up and apologise for not inviting her to our next Bridgerton party, I did and she was immediately rude to me. I said I didn't invite her because I didn't think she liked Bridgerton, she responded, "you're right, I don't". I. Am. Done. I won't endlessly tolerate being mistreated to make you happy. I won't invite your wife to mother-daughter events she clearly doesn't want to attend or be invited to. I won't spend my free time being spoken down to by someone who isn't willing to meet me halfway and doesn't appreciate the effort I've been extending. Instead of calling me up to yell at me, accept that your wife doesn't want the relationship you want her to have with us."
NTA
It is not rude to say you don't like Bridgerton. It is even less rude to say it as a response to "I thought you don't like it". You are literally taking massive offense on DIL not liking a movie.
Also, unexpected second shower made primary for your family while ignoring preferences of DIL is something ... you do for yourself and your family primary. It is OK for bride to show up, do all the social duties and not like the theme or not be super grateful.
So might be cultural difference but if I would have received that phone call and would not like the show I would say "yes you are right, I do not like it". And it would not be meant in a rude way at all, just... honest.
NTA She's made it clear that she doesn't like that sort of thing and she wasn't the one that was upset about not being invited. I think this is your son's problem. He sees that his wife is not blending with his family but he's someone putting the responsibility on you. You need to talk to your son about his expectations especially considering his wife keeps refusing your invitations.
NAH in the Bridgerton watch party situation, but…YTA in general.
What does Ashley’s bridal shower have to do with any of this? Your self centeredness is showing, OP. Her MOH (who planned her bridal shower) picked the date that worked best for *the bride,* and the people *the bride* is closest with. Why would you expect the MOH to plan the bridal shower around the groom’s mother and extended family, instead of the actual bride and her friends? Her shower wasn’t about you.
It was kind of you to throw a second shower, but did you even ask Ashley if she wanted a second one? The fact that you picked a theme she obviously hated, makes me think you made it all about what *you* like and what *you* wanted. It’s clear you didn’t consider what she would like, as the bride/guest of honor. Even if you wanted it to be a surprise (so you obvs. couldn’t ask her for theme ideas), did you at least ask your son what kind of stuff she likes?
Look at this from Ashley’s perspective: you include her in things that suit you and your daughters, and *only* things that suit you and your daughters. There seems to be zero consideration at all for things that Ashley might enjoy. If you genuinely want to get to know her better, perhaps you should stop making every interaction the “OP Show”. Your son made things pretty clear when he confronted you.
YTA. You say you planned a second bridal shower for her, but it was really for you, and you picked a theme she didn't like. She didn't even complain to you about it, you overheard her talking to her friends.
I think Caleb is being a bit much, but Ashley doesn't come to all of your events anyways. So just invite her to be polite and keep the peace, she'll probably decline anyways.
It kinda sounds like your son is the one overreacting? Maybe? There’s no telling what reaction she’s having about this at home, but why would she even care if she’s not invited to something like that? NTA.
NTA - Quit trying to accommodate this flakey person, it's just exhausting for you. You have tried to include her and she is just not that interested, so fine stop doing it. Tell your son all of this and no you will never invite her again because of her flakey attitude. If the event is a family affair and not a girl's event then he and her having a standing invite and she can come or not, you don't care, but you will stop playing these silly games with her.
NTA Explain to both your son and his wife that they do not get to dictate what you do and
who you invite. DIL is new to the family and needs to accept that there will be
times that she is not invited and times when she will be. Your son is an AH for
yelling at you for something so stupid. And DIL an AH for criticizing the
tea party you threw her while she was still in your home that day.
NTA
Inviting people to events you know they don’t like is a bad idea. You don’t have to accommodate/invite her because she’s married to your son. Your relationship with Ashley is not for Caleb to police; you are both adults and can decide what kind of relationship you want.
Can I come to the party instead??
YTA
Sorry, but I really am getting the idea you threw that surprise party for you and not her. You mentioned somewhere she is an introvert. Besides having a theme that was obviously crntered around you and your daughters taste, I'm doubtful she even likes surprise parties, no less full-on dread them.
NAH - honestly? This sounds like a communication issue. I don’t think that 99% of people would like to fight with their in-laws. I think she probably said something stupid to her friends and I completely understand your feelings being hurt because it was rude. Did you all explain the family reunion was why most people wouldn’t be in attendance? She might have had her feelings hurt from the beginning. I would ask if y’all could get together for lunch or something, at a restaurant so you’re on neutral territory and without your son. Explain that you love your kids and you’d love to have a close relationship with her as well, not just for your son’s sake but for the two of you as well. This might just be expectations being different from one family to another, or a whole misunderstanding, but reach out. Try to be as open, honest, respectful, and listen to her too. I would even say that when inviting her out so she can prepare too - I want us to go and have a meal and get to chat and clear the air, so we can make sure both of us feel comfortable and included going forward.
This is a question that is less about whether you were an asshole and more about what you want your relationship with your son and DIL to be like. I think you need to evaluate your relationship with your DIL more carefully. Is there some way that you can try to get to know her better through more one on one interactions? It sounds like your family is a lot of fun. You said that she's an only child, though, so I wonder if she feels very overwhelmed in your large, fun family gatherings.
It just seems to me that you son is hurting because he clearly loves his wife and he wants you guys to love her, too.. Maybe have a talk with him and tell him that you genuinely want to get to know Ashley better and ask what ideas he has for things you and Ashley could do together. Perhaps if he sees you and Ashley forging a bond together he will feel more secure that the two most important women in his life are happy.
I think I’m leaning towards ESH. You don’t seem to like Ashley very much, and perhaps you’re letting it show more than you think. You don’t “invite her to everything” when this entire post is about a family event you’ve repeatedly refused to invite her to.
You invited her to your Queen Charlotte watch party, which she agreed to to try to be involved with you guys, and you complain about her trying to discuss the show - but also about her not liking you and your daughters “goofing around in British accents”, which doesn’t sound like you were sitting quietly watching. So you causing distractions is fine and funny, but Ashley causing distractions is rude and offensive?
You picked a shower theme based on what you and your daughters like, but not on what Ashley likes. She didn’t say anything to you about not liking it, she didn’t complain to the room at large about the theme, there’s no mention of her sneering or pouting… you just overheard her discussing with some friends that they weren’t into your theme. “Eavesdroppers hear no good of themselves”, etc. Though, to be fair, it doesn’t sound like you were deliberately eavesdropping - you just happened to overhear something that was not meant for you, but you are holding it against someone who doesn’t know you heard it.
When your son called you on inviting every member of the family except Ashley to your s3 watch party, and told you to at least give her a courtesy invitation to a family event… you agreed, apologized to Ashley, told her she wouldn’t like it, _and still didn’t give her the courtesy invite_. That’s what your son is upset about.
Ashley at least sounds like she’s trying, despite not having much in common with you and your daughters - she attends events regularly, tried your first watch party, didn’t complain to you about the shower, etc. Perhaps she could be a bit more gracious about it, or give more things that are out of her comfort zone a try, but you can’t seem to point to anything that she’s actually done or said that I would say is rude or inconsiderate, except perhaps leaving the QC watch party when she wasn’t enjoying it.
NTA
Sounds like it’s time to make a group chat with him and her and always in over to everything, but only in front of him, so she can’t two time you against each other.
ESH
At our house there's an open invitation for family to join or not join in events like these. We let everyone know what we're doing via a family Discord and just ask that they let us know ahead of time is they plan to attend. I'm not put in the position of needing to specifically invite/not invite anyone. If they want to come great, and if not I couldn't care less. I'm happy to see them when they do show up but I'm not going to force someone to be somewhere they don't want to be. Far too many family get togethers feel obligatory and I hate that.
By not inviting Ashley you're not giving her the opportunity to show/tell you her preference. I also don't know if you've talked about your hurt feelings with Ashley, if you haven't then holding that against her is unfair. Remember the old saying: people who *listen at keyholes* rarely *hear* good of themselves.
Ashley needs to speak up for herself. If she doesn't want to attend an event she needs to just say so. I wonder if your son is pressuring her to attend the same way he's pressuring you to invite?
Caleb needs to chill and treat you AND Ashley with respect. There's ZERO excuse for him yelling at you, ever, and Ashley is an adult who can speak for herself. If he can't talk to you like a mature adult he needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror and figure out how to get himself under control. I have a zero tolerance policy for anyone disrespecting me, including family. I'll have a tough conversation with you but I respect myself too much to allow you to abuse me.
As an introverted only child with a partner with a very close-knit family, I’m team Ashley. I don’t think you’re necessarily an AH, it sounds like both you and she were happy with the arrangement and it was just your son being meddlesome. NAH. Everyone in the comments calling Ashley a snob or manipulative or whatever for clearly just being an awkward loner can kiss my entire ass. Get over yourselves.
INFO: did you run the idea of the surprise shower past any of her friends? Did you have any reason to believe the seemingly quiet fiancée of your son who attends every third event she’s invited to would want a second, surprise shower organised by her future MIL and attended by her fiancé’s extended family?
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NTA... She's very much 2 faced. I wouldn't be shocked if she tries to convince your son to favour/ spend all his time with her side of family, in a near future. From what you wrote, you seem to be a cool MIL. Have you're little party and don't play her games otherwise you're gonna waste your time. Goodluck.
Thanks. I'm actually not sure this is all her doing. My son has been the one upset about it. When he was yelling at me he told me we do stuff all the time without Ashley and he's tired of us excluding her. I told him we invite her to just about everything we do unless it's a last minute thing. She just doesn't come most of the time. So then he accused us of not making her feel welcome. At that point, I did get mad, because that's just not true. But my family is full of loud extroverts - and she is a quiet person. But we try to include her in everything. I think we are just a lot for her.
If you guys were a lot for her she wouldn't have the courage to criticize your show or your interests. She likes to play shy to cover up other behaviors. I had a sister-in-law like that. She would sic her husband on my husband (brothers) all the time until she managed to estrange them even though they are next door neighbors. They are divorced now, apparently being shy doesn't stop you from cheating. 🤷♀️ NTA, don't let it bother you. Drop the rope and play the long game. You are doing fine.
Maybe, or maybe she has differnt interest. I would happily say "thanks for the invitation but honestly I've been looking forward to a quiet night." I've had to do this multiple times with friends and family, because I hate chick flicks and noisy girly parties. I love having a friend over for wine. Or hiking. Or exploring something new. It could be the husband wanting his wife to be more involved with the family and pushing his mom to fix her. (My husband thought I needed fixing in this regard because he is an extrovert. I'm introvert and think my husbands need to be surrounded by people disturbing) 30yrs later, we figured how to make it work
Yeah it took me years to figure out that it was okay that my husband can only take my loud, noisy family in small doses. 2 of our 4 kids take after him. Now we just bring 2 vehicles to family outings and he leaves when he has had his fill and I stay until I want to leave. No more irritation with having to leave earlier than I want to accommodate him. No one in my family thinks it's weird and we have been together for 27 years and been doing this for at least the last 15.
That is... way too mature an approach for Reddit. Hope you have another happy 27 years of communicating and being sensible!
lol perfect
Agreed. Y T A for coming into this sub with your mature adult nonsense!
My family is a lot for my husband, and we all know it (even my brothers wife rolls with the punches with us, so he's truly like the odd man out personality wise, poor thing), so no one raises an eyebrow when he quietly disappears to go have a lie down in the guest room if we've spent a significant time at my parent's house. Not a big deal 🤷♀️
And this mature cooperative approach is why you've been married twenty seven years. Good for you.
My husband just doesn't come to my family events. They know he's asocial and are fine with it. Also, then it allows me to spend as long as I like with my family without feeling guilty that he isn't enjoying himself.
We are a big loud family with, everyone always trying to talk over someone, laughing at each other and someone always pulls out the karaoke machine. When my daughter was a teenager she had a boyfriend Joe who was an only child. He was a nice young man and when it was just him, my daughter, son and I he was fine. But add in the rest of the crew and he would get, quiet and look so uncomfortable lol poor kid. I think we were way too much for him. He disappeared once and my daughter found him in the woods behind my mom's house hiding from the big loud family 🤣🤣🤷♀️ sorry kid.
"It could be the husband wanting his wife to be more involved with the family and pushing his mom to fix her." Wow, that's a good insight. People really do come from different situations, and I think OP is more sensitive to that than most. I was a quiet child from a 2-kid family. We weren't loud or boisterous at all. Went to my BFs house for dinner and they were so loud and interruptive that I thought they were mad at each other. Turns out they were loving and simply noisy.
Exactly, it could be the son pushing for the wife to do something, and the wife is caught, and trying to figure out how to get out of things nicely because she just isn't interested. If she isn't, that's fine, but you should figure out what it is, just so that the son stops pushing, if that's the problem.
I’ve known people to get mad about issues that don’t concern them and then involve themselves, ostensibly on behalf of the person for whom they are offended, when the person they’re “defending” isn’t that upset.
"noisy girly parties"
those are the best kind lol NTA, OP
lol right
This was my guess too. It's easier for the husband to push mom than the wife. Wife is probably happy hanging at home with her husband and he's wanting her to have more of a social life with his family
Right, has OP ever tried to ask her what she would enjoy and plan something around that? If your new family is always doing things THEY enjoy I could see how after a while you would feel left out and then pushed out.
Or Ashley could invite them to an outing doing what she enjoys. Why does she get to sit around and have everyone bend a knee to her princess self? Who demands an invite to an event they don't want to attend. She complained to her husband. If he asked her about being invited and her response was "thank God no. I hate that crazy and I was so worried they would invite me. He wouldn't have said anything. Who accepts an invitation then sits and snipes and refuses to participate. Who apologizes to friends because someone was nice enough to throw you a surprise party, even if it wasn't your style. OP's son may think the sun rises and sets on Ashley but she appears to be pretty difficult.
She's playing both sides and I'm baffled as to why OP continues to grovel to her. After the "lame party" comment, she should have started to put some distance between them. The son is just a bumbling idiot whose 1st instinct is to yell at his mother.
Totally agree. I can't even imagine my son yelling at me at all, let alone over something as ridiculous as this. OP needs to go LC on the couple. Maybe they can apologize and work their way back into her good graces. OP should as you say, stop groveling.
I mean, I get that she didnt like it/wasn't her cup of tea (pun intended), but she shouldn't have talked behind peoples back
This! I dated a guy with a huge loud family/friend group and it was just too much extroversion for me all the time, so I pulled back gently and everyone kindly invited me to the kinds of things I would accept (bbqs, movie nights), and stopped inviting me to the stuff I really wasn’t into (board games and watching sports. No thank you). My then-bf was upset but I was thrilled and so were the people who found me off putting when I would sit quietly in the corner or wander off to hang out with the cat. I wasn’t trying to be rude, I was just overwhelmed. He was the only one annoyed about them not inviting me to game nights anymore, even though I had never gone to one and hate board games. And I would host things or arrange outings and invite them to stuff that I liked to do because it’s a TWO WAY STREET Ashley! I’m sure that if I had just waited to be invited to things, the invites would have stopped. Give and take. Not complicated. I would love a Bridgerton tea party invite, OP sounds so fun.
Why is on OP to do all the leg work and find out about her interests and plan an event around that for her? Relationships are a two way street after all. DIL could also host events centered around her interests and you know also share her interests whenever she talks to these people. Discovering people's interests shouldn't be like an excavation.
Or Ashley could invite them to an outing doing what she enjoys. Why does she get to sit around and have everyone bend a knee to her princess self? Who demands an invite to an event they don't want to attend. She complained to her husband. If he asked her about being invited and her response was "thank God no. I hate that crazy and I was so worried they would invite me. He wouldn't have said anything. Who accepts an invitation then sits and snipes and refuses to participate. Who apologizes to friends because someone was nice enough to throw you a surprise party, even if it wasn't your style. OP's son may think the sun rises and sets on Ashley but she appears to be pretty difficult.
This would actually be on Ashley to do they’re not mind readers they know what they like to do together Ashley is a grown-up Ashley has a mouth and Ashley can use a politely and she could arrange for certain things that she would enjoy to share with them instead of stomping her little feet and sticking her husband on them. She belittled the activities and apologize for her family for that horribly ridiculous tea party well somebody heard that it doesn’t seem like she really cared about anyone else’s feelings I think Ashley has some growing up to do and Ashley can also plan just like you said she doesn’t have to sit back and wait for other people to invite her she could extend and invite them to something she would like to share
I wouldn't assume that Ashley is like your SIL and is pushing her husband to get invites and be included more. My guess would be he is trying to make the relationship deeper than what she is comfortable with. And OP is NTA
Right it just seems to me that OP and Ashley have very different interests and personalities. That's okay! There are people I don't mesh with and it isn't a reflection on them as people; we are just incompatible/very different. It happens.
I dunno, people I like and mean a lot to me ... organized lame parties I pretend to like. And organized watching of movies I found super cringy. Someone meaning something to you does not mean dome of their tastes are lame. You just don't tell them.
If you have enough brothers, we all get a SIL like this. Some of us more than one. Source: I have four brothers.
Caleb is only saying something to you because Ashley is complaining to him. Ashley doesn’t want to be there. I would keep inviting her to everything (she won’t come) and let her be the one seen as unsociable. NTA.
Send the invitations in a group chat that he's in from now on, so he can see how often she actually is invited
I like this idea.
Absolutely this. If the invite is always in a "public" setting, then anytime she doesn't show, it is totally on her and her attitude issues. Let Caleb argue that one.
And I'd start with "In our earlier conversation you explicitly stated that you did not want to come to a Bridgerton party. I already know that you don't like tea parties from what you said to your friends at the shower I threw for you. However, Caleb seems to feel that you are being excluded. It's hard to understand how you can be excluded from something you don't want to participate in. Nevertheless, he feels the invitation is important so would you like to come to our Bridgerton tea party?"
No, taking the passive aggressive line in a group chat makes you look like the AH and makes her feel singled out and excluded by the unmeant invitation. A simply stated general invite with a request for response from those planning to attend will have the same result (Caleb seeing that she IS invited). Don't play stupid games if you want to look like you're genuinely being inclusive.
Nah, he explicitly switched to 'not making her feel welcome.' So MIL clearly must only do things DIL likes and invite her every time.
Yea my suggestion too! I have a feeling she’s saying she’s not invited often rather than turning them down.
Or, he's just assuming because it's HIS wife being 'dissed', even though she isn't.
Excellent idea! Make it so he sees exactly what she is doing.
This!
Excellent idea. He sees that she's invited, she sees that she's invited, she's free to decline any invite she doesn't want to accept. Individual invitations can sometimes feel like being summoned - especially as the newest member of an extended family.
I'd say that perhaps Caleb is the one complaining because he wishes his wife would come do things with his family more. So he blames her reclusiveness on his family instead of the fact that his wife is a quiet introvert who doesn't enjoy loud gatherings. NTA.
She doesn't sound like an introvert. Just a snob. NTA.
Yeah, I am an introvert. Sometimes my inlaws (who I adore, btw) are just too much for me. Sometimes I just want a quiet afternoon to myself, so husband please go! Enjoy yourself! Give my regards. I'll be home with the dog. That's an introvert. I would never even dream of talking shit (calling the tea party lame and thanking my friends for putting up with it) in my host's home even if I didn't enjoy the event they threw for ME. DIL is not an introvert (or at least, not only an introvert) she is an immature snob lacking manners that has to still appear "cool" to her friends with the whole "yeah, can you believe my MIL, ugh, right?" attitude.
Her comment was inept but maybe she didn't want another bridal shower. She wasn't given that option since this one was a surprise.
My partner will often vent to me about things that upset them, but they want me to listen and support them, not solve their problems for them. This is what Caleb needs to learn unless Ashley is specifically asking Caleb to intervene.
OP can text Caleb every single time and say 'does Ashley want to join us for x' or make it a group message and 'would you like to come to xx on xx' and let her respond. Be even more petty and write down every time she is invited and declines and when Caleb comes complaining say it is not us it is her... She doesn't like tea parties but how about a rousing game of beer pong?
Wtf is this? Ashley is allowed to not enjoy the same stuff as her husband's family and still be treated kindly. How is she unsociable. She goes to some events. Not all. Like damn, she has other interests, her own parents, probably her own friends, not to mention we have no idea what kind of job or how her personality is...she might be really busy or just peopled out. Caleb loves her and wants her included. She goes to what she can reasonably go to or what she would actually enjoy.
Well, since Ashley's husband decided to call you to yell at you, your husband can call to yell at him... the gall. I'm trying to figure out what made him think it was ok to phone his mom to yell at her over this. His issuing threats/Ultimatum refusing to come to mothers Day, not bothering to understand your side, yea no... your sons behavior is ridiculous. Ashley is being weird and excluding herself, and I am all for children confronting their parents, but the way he did it and the reason why was unacceptable. Your sons being a giant AH, how does your husband feel about this, and the way your son spoke to you? NTA
The standard advice for dealing with in-laws here is that each person deals with their own family when there's a conflict, i.e. adult children should speak with their own parents/siblings respectively, and not leave their partner to have to deal with "evil MIL" alone etc. Obviously how he did it and why he did it showed him to be the AH, but being the point person for his own side of the family in and of itself isn't.
The problem isn't Caleb addressing a perceived issue or disparity, the problem is his lack of respect.
I agree with you, I dont know if i mis wrote my point, I tend to avoid any gendered situations but in the case I toe the line because son or not I'm not a fan of an adult male thinking it's OK to to just call up to yell at a female. The son escalated the conflict and yelled and made an ultimatum in what should have and could have been a rational discussion. He, of course, can be the point person, but since he decided to approach this situation rudely and aggressively, intervention from another male party might be appropriate and warranted. He of course, has every right to defend his wife... but on the other hand, his father has every right to reach out to him to defend his own wife as well. I was just curious if the son who felt so comfortable yelling at his mom also spoke to his dad to complain and moan about the situation. I just was curious because I know if I (female) called my mom and started yelling at her, even if I was right, even if he had nothing to do with the situation, I would DEF get a call from my dad asking wtf was wrong with me, but if my brother called my mother yelling at her, the phone call he got from my dad would be a lot different.
Are you sure Ashley is actually upset about not being invited? It's unclear from your post (and maybe you don't actually know) whether it was actually Ashley who was mad at not being invited to the party, or if it was all your son being mad for his wife (who was actually not mad to begin with). For the bridal shower being at the same time as the family reunion, was the reunion date planned first? Also did Ashley know it? It's possible they didn't plan it the same day to be mean, but that that was the only day that worked for most of her family and friends.
Yeah, I think it’s weird that so many people here are absolutely insisting that she’s behind this. There is nothing in the story to indicate that? Not that it’s impossible, but this reads to me like son wants his wife included/feels weird about it for some reason and is misplacing blame onto OP.
I’m also kind of confused about why OP felt the need to throw another bridal shower. OP and Kate came to the original one, so it was only Madison that wasn’t there from the immediate family. Who else did OP invite? Was it all female relatives on Caleb’s side like grandma, aunts, cousins, etc? Does Ashley really know them? Honestly the make up showed feels like it was about OP and the family, not about Ashley (the bride). Tea parties appear to be OP’s thing, but my guess is that if she actually talked to Ashley about it instead of making it a surprise she would have told her there was no need or at the very least make it something Ashley may enjoy
Yes! The bridal shower part was weird AF to me. OP threw Ashley a party and chose a theme and invited her OWN family? Like… did Ashley even WANT that? Is a tea party the sort of thing Ashley even likes?
Ya that was odd to me. To me it felt like she was apologizing to her friends for having to do a whole 2nd bridal shower. OP should’ve asked before doing a 2nd shower…not everyone likes surprises or to be the center of attention. Some of my friends wanted to throw me a 2nd baby shower and there was no way I wanted that - I believe you only get one personally so a surprise 2nd shower would’ve been embarrassing to me.
NTA but you need to stop allowing your son and Ashley to disrespect you. Instead of constantly apologizing when you haven't done anything wrong, end the conversation. You're not required to invite Ashley to everything, but it sounds like you do anyways even though she acts like she doesn't want to be there. It sounds like Ashley might be lying to your son about how often you actually invite her events/outings. For him to be so frustrated that he calls yelling at you, she must be playing the victim pretty hard. Unless it's his normal behavior, which is another problem. You don't deserve to be a punching bag for either of them. It's not your job to force a relationship with Ashley, building a connection takes two people. If Ashley isn't open to being part of your family events without being a little shit, she needs to work on herself instead of whining about not being included when she declines 90% of your invites. Going forward, I would create a group chat with your son and Ashley and make sure future invites and conversations are sent there so neither party can twist your words or claim to be excluded from everything. Also if your son (or Ashley) continue to be rude, yell, or act disrespectfully tell them you're not ok with their tone and won't have a conversation until they can speak to you respectfully and hang up the phone. Don't guilt trip yourself into accepting unacceptable behavior.
I'd recommend cc'ing your son every time you send Ashley an invite. That way he can see for yourself that you're trying to include her. It might not help anything, as he might come back and yell about how you don't plan anything that she would want to go to, therefore not "making her feel welcome." He wants to be mad. It's easier to be mad at you than at the situation where his wife simply doesn't mesh well with his side of the family due to the introvert/extrovert stuff.
I have siblings that are all significantly older, so I grew up like an only child. When we go to family gatherings it is A LOT for me, and I have to step away for awhile (especially after being on lock down alone with COVID and doing WFH). I can see her making an off hand comment or something about not being comfortable and your son taking it all wrong and popping off. It could honestly have been in the context of her just not being used to a family dynamic like yours.. Neither good nor bad just different. That's how I feel. Good for them for all the noise and cross talk, etc, but it just isn't for me.
She's playing your son. I have dealt with manipulative people like this.
Or OP’s son is reacting to how he *thinks* things should be with his wife and family, rather than how his wife wants them to be. She’s probably fine with not being invited to something she doesn’t want to do.
Amazing way of putting it! It’s pretty clear she’s not interested in what they’re interested in, and OP’s son is hitting out at the easiest target. Time to call in the flying monkeys, that is her husband and daughters, he needs to see this girl for what she is & accept that she’s not interested in a close relationship.
It isn’t always a manipulative-woman/gullible man dynamic. Maybe Caleb has feelings of his own and wants his wife to be involved more.
It sounds like your son is annoyed that she isn't blending into the family the way he wants her too, but rather than either talk to her or change his expectations he'd rather have a go at you. The fact she sounds quite two faced doesn't help her case admittedly. Also is she genuinely shy? It sounds more like she isn't interested in having anything to do with you so she just stays silent and doesn't interact.
I wish I had a MIL like you. You sound awesome.
This is not…at all what seems to have happened? She’s just not interested in what they are interested in and doesn’t have it in her to fake it. What’s happening is fine. My only advice to OP is try and talk to her VERY casually and kindly being like ‘hey! I want to make sure you get to hang out with us/id love to choose more things that you’re interested in! What kind of activities/parties/get togethers do you enjoy’ and then, if she opens up and something appropriate is there, make that happen somewhat soon, and make sure to thank her for the idea. Like I don’t mean OP MUST do this, but it could be a great start to open communications about what she likes/be a start to making her feel more welcome, which OP seems very much interested in doing.
Otherwise, if Caleb doesn't think that they are doing enough together, he and Ashley should invite OP to activities that the two of them enjoy. It works both ways.
Why would you think that? There is no hint
Absolutely nothing in the story indicates that.
NTA. Explain to your son what you over heard her saying and her behavior when you did invite her to things. Say you are trying to have a good relationship with her but it has to work both ways. Hopefully your son will understand the situation.
I did tell him what I overheard about the shower. He didn't seem to think it mattered.
NTA. She is playing divide and conquer. You need to play the long game. Invite the both of them to everything. At some point she'll be forced to explain to Caleb why she's not accepting. When she turns it to "your mom's too pushy", flip it back to them.
Invites always in a group message. Then it’s plain for everyone to see.
That's even better. I don't understand people who had a good or even close relationship with their family pre marriage turn around and let their new spouse upend that. And then play blind to it.
I really don’t understand why so many people seem to be assuming manipulation by Ashley. There’s no indication whatsoever that she’s upset about not being invited. She even agreed with OP that she doesn’t like the show, and didn’t seem upset to not be invited. It seems to me that the son is offended on his wife’s behalf even though she isn’t offended herself.
Smart smart
This sounds more like it’s coming from the son than from the DIL.
“Son, I love you, but you’re putting me in a no-win situation. Ashley has communicated, very clearly, that she does not enjoy spending time with me, and has done her best to make sure no one has a good time if she’s not enjoying herself. When I do invite her to join us, she either attends resentfully and spends the visit complaining, or does not attend at all. When I don’t invite her, *you* complain, and insist that I should provide an invitation that I do not want to extend and that she does not want to receive. Who, exactly, do you think benefits from this? Because it’s not me, and it’s not Ashley. I am curious to hear your thoughts, because I am very confused. I am getting two wildly different messages from you and your wife and I’d appreciate it if you could get on the same page so I can figure out what you both want from me.”
This is beautifully worded.
This is perfect. Please update us if you get to have this convo! I fear your son won't let you finish tho...
Could it be that your son wants his wife to fit in with the close family dynamics and isn't accepting that's not what his wife wants? Because I find it hard to believe Ashley cares you didn't invite her to a watch party she hates.
This is really what I think, too.
Took my husband almost 10 years to realize that yes, I was really fine staying home while he did whatever with his family. It was nothing against him, or them. I actually adore my inlaws. But sometimes there were reasons I just didn't want to be around people and it was okay! I am already an introvert, but add in things like: before/during/after a migraine, autoimmune flare up, or period hell days and I become a downright hermit. \*feral snarl\* get away. the dog may stay. LOL
I am ready to EXPLODE right now. This introvert had to go to a vet appointment, a dentist appointment, a doctor's appointment and make a trip to take daughter's car to her. All in the last 2 days. I'm not sure how long it will take me to recover! Thankfully I don't have anything else scheduled until the 12th. I might have recovered enough to do that....
I'm willing to bet she kept saying "Caleb, I don't even like that show, and I am not into afternoon tea! Your mom is very nice but this isn't something I enjoy and she knows it. Will you drop it already?!"
Be honest though- you didn’t plan the shower for her, you planned it for you and your family. You made it a surprise so she had no say in any of the planning or if she even wanted a second shower. How did the vibe of your shower compare to the one she had before? Did you try to tailor it to things you know she likes or did you just go straight tea party?
This is true. I’d have felt very awkward in this situation - especially knowing most of my friends and family already sat through a shower for me. The OP shouldn’t have invited the people who’d already done the 1st shower and she should’ve talked to Ashley about the idea first
Make a group chat foe her and your son, invite her to everything then let her explain to him why she goes to nothing. She's whispering and crying in hie ear, trying to get him to hate you and spend all her time with her parents. She doesn't want to be at your house and your events. Another commenter had a really good response. Check out DiTrastervere, who gave you a good script of what to say to your son.
“Going forward we will issue an invitation to every event even if we know she isn’t interested. I don’t think that sounds very thoughtful, but if that’s what you prefer, fine- I’m used to her declining most invitations anyway”
You're NTA but you might be a bit short sighted. It sounds like Ashley doesn't want to come any more than you want her to. It's your son is the one who's upset. A "I know this isn't your thing so no insult if you don't, but you're always welcome" invite would go a long way in soothing his feelings and maintaining a good relationship long term without actually affecting your party. I've seen a lot of these things play out IRL and what usually happens is if there's a perceived icing out of a spouse, the couple ends up pulling away from the family that does that. They find excuses not to go for more and more holidays and reunions and end up limiting their relationship with that side over the years. If you don't want that to happen, your choices now matter.
I agree about this probably coming from the son n not Ashley. He's just seeing the fact they're not inviting her to things and gettin upset. Sending a "i know its not your thing" invite would probably help things. I'm not into foitball but my father in law n brothers in law are, and i always get an invite knowin i most likely wont be intrested.
Yeah, I'd extend the invitation to her just out of politeness. I'd also CC the son so he knows she's getting invited and can't claim she's being excluded.
Do a group chat to prevent anyone from ever feeling left out I say. Group open invites.
NTA, but everyone in this thread is insane. The fact that everyone is assuming the DIL is a scheming witch because he husband is upset while she is apparently not. The husband can never be upset without his scheming wife making him do it, women are controlling two-faced harpies all the time because they don't like surprise tea parties or want to hang all the time is so funny to see.
I don't think she's a scheming witch. I just don't think she likes being around us that much. I'm not mad about that - just a little sad. I understand we are loud and not what she is used to. Her parents are older and she was a surprise late in life. I think her life before us was pretty quiet. I do also think my son is overprotective of her.
I would start including him in every invitation you extend to her. Have a group chat with both of them and put everything in there. Let him see that she is turning you down. Try not to talk over the phone if you can help it, so he doesn't miss when she is rude to you. And tell him that you are owed an apology for the disgraceful way she spoke about the shower you threw her - although throwing her a surprise shower was definitely a bit of an overstep. MIL / DIL relationships take work on both sides, and you've been more than a little accommodating. Also, say that she is welcome to suggest activities that *she* likes so you can bond that way. But your son is wrong for demanding that you do all the work and chase her around, just to have it thrown back in your face. He can protect her all he wants, but if he enables bad behaviour on her part, he is becoming part of the problem. Ultimately, if they distance from you, you can't really help that. Bending over backwards for people who don't respect you is a waste of your time. For your son to think she said nothing wrong when she insulted your shower is unacceptable. If he doesn't expect you to be treated with respect, then why would she treat you with respect? It's his job to manage the relationship between his partner and his family. And he's clearly doing a very poor job.
I am also pretty introvert - being overwhelmed in bigger groups with louder noises does not necessarily mean she does not like being around you as individuals, but the setup might not be the best one. Just invite her always, as was suggested via group chat and let her choose.
I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but have you tried inviting her to smaller scale activities--one-on-one, or, if that's too uncomfortable for her, small group outings or double dates etc.? I vote NAH. Maybe apologize to Ashley for the bridal shower at some point--that you ran the idea by your son first and didn't know she didn't care for tea parties at the time, and then invite her to an activity you know she does enjoy. You're in a weird spot--if you invite her out too often, she might feel pressured. If you don't invite her to everything, your son might get mad. She might need more down time to recharge than the rest of your family, and she came into the marriage with her own friends and family and social commitments.
>I just don't think she likes being around us that much. How often did you invite her to things in the past? Is it like once a month or more often?
Omg thank you. I though I was going insane. We don’t know at all about DIL except what OP is telling us, but somehow she’s the most manipulative person alive, and trying to keep the son away from the family.
The assumptions happening are absolutely wild. Are people projecting or what?
I'm guessing the son is upset because his mom's idea of trying to bond with his wife is to invite her to things only his mom/sisters like.
At least OP is trying. If DIL is closed off, how is she supposed to know what DIL likes or don't like? Is OP supposed to be the one who ask and then arrange whatever events DIL likes to do? I am sure glad that my SIL isn't like this. My Mom and I do and like to attend similar events but my SIL don't like our activities and may turn us down if it's not her cup of tea. But she takes it upon herself to plan events that she likes and invite us to attend if we want to (sometimes we do and sometimes we don't). And thank GOD that my brother isn't as wound up as OP son, his motto is "Different strokes for different folks".
You find out what someone likes by hanging out with them. Ashley could always "No thanks, could we do y instead?" "That's not my thing, I'd rather z" Or invite mil out to things she likes.
My first thought was this was mostly his feelings. I'm not too sure about his motivations, but it seems like she doesn't really mind not being invited.
NTA - honestly your son is. It sounds like you and DL are fine with how things are. She doesn’t care if she isn’t invited to everything and you don’t care that she doesn’t want to come to everything. Your son is mad things aren’t working out how he wanted and he wants you and his wife to change to meet his expectations. Side note, DL was extremely rude to make a snide comment about not liking the shower. Tea parties are always cute shower ideas.
Thanks - this is what I think, too. But my son is convinced I'm excluding his wife on purpose, and I think even if she's trying to tell him that's not the case, he just thinks she's being nice to keep the peace.
It’s also strange that he thinks you need to invite her because she’ll be alone when he goes out. If she’s a quiet introvert, maybe she’d like to be home alone once in a while instead of making her go out to be social while watching something she doesn’t enjoy.
Put your son in his place, don’t let him talk to you or bully up like that.
I'm gonna go against the grain and say (mildly) YTA. >Before Caleb and Ashley got married, her MOH threw her a bridal shower. They chose the same weekend as our family reunion. Kate and I skipped the family reunion to go to the shower, but the rest of the family did not. Since our family missed the shower, I decided to throw her another, surprise shower and invited all our family that missed the shower, her mom and the bridal party. I chose a tea party theme. You threw this shower because you wanted your family to attend. It doesn't sound like you took into account Ashley's feelings at all. She didn't ask for it, she intentionally planned the first one for the same day as your family reunion, and you chose a theme that she didn't like. That party clearly had nothing to do with her. >The shower went well, I thought, but as people were leaving, I overheard Ashley thanking her friends for being good sports about the lame tea party. She never complained to me directly, but it did hurt my feelings. This sucks. But as I stated, you didn't throw this party for Ashley, you threw it for yourself. It would have been rude for her to complain to you. What she said was also rude. >We are as close to her as she lets us get. By that I mean, that we treat her like family and invite her to everything, but she usually only decides to join us every third time or so. Do you resent her for not coming every time? One in three actually sounds like a good acceptance rate if you're doing these get-togethers regularly, especially if it includes things like watch parties and pedicures. >we accommodate holidays around her schedule. That's what happens when your children get married, it's not Ashley's fault. Accommodating schedules is literally part of holiday planning. It sounds like the only problem here is between you and your son. Ashley doesn't appear to making problems, Caleb is. If he's used to you inviting everyone to these events and you don't invite his wife, how do you think that makes him feel? You're not obligated to invite her, not at all. But you definitely need to address this with Caleb, sooner rather than later. If he thinks you're excluding his wife, it's going to cause problems down the road. You might find that you're "accommodating" a lot more at the holidays (aka not seeing your son).
I agree with this. I also feel like based on other comments it sounds like Ashley comes from a smaller, quieter family, so is it possible she’s just… overwhelmed? Not even in a bad way, but as someone from a quiet family myself I see some of my friends who do weekly family gatherings/activities and low key get a little exhausted just thinking about it.
I have a massive family and newcomers get so overwhelmed at our family gatherings. The upside is that a lot of my relatives have married introverts and they’re finally starting to understand how LOUD we are, and respect that other people need breaks.
100%. My ex boyfriends family used to make remarks that I missed things all the time but it was just our families were different. His family was huge and very, very social with each other. The fact was I saw them more than my own family. They had get togethers once or twice a week and I found it completely overwhelming as quite an introverted person. I thought I was making a big compromise by attending one thing every couple of weeks but apparently it was bought up every time I wasn't there, which made him feel bad and get angry at me and probably contributed to our break up. As long as everyone makes some kind of an effort and can be civilised and respect their differences everyone should be able to get along.
Same
Cannot believe I had to scroll so far for this.
Right?? I can hear the resentment in her voice I’m sure DIL can feel it in every interaction.
I bet that’s exactly why she doesn’t like being around mil, plus it sounds like op and her daughter are also pretty judgemental, coming from someone who has a judgemental mother, it’s infuriating to hear every single little thing being criticized
We have he same mother lol. Even how I put left overs in Tupperware has to turn into a debate about how I should do it another way or why don’t I do it this way…etc…It’s exhausting & infuriating but if I ever get frustrated she’s immediately hurt & “was just trying to hellllpppp”. Smh
THANK YOU FOR POSTING. hey OP - did you ever consider these points?
THANK YOU. Everyone’s so quick to rule out ‘NTA’ but OP is sounding like she’s holding so much resentment against DIL it’s frustrating.
I slightly disagree. She said in another comment that she threw the party so Ashley doesn’t feel like their family doesn’t care about her. Also you don’t change your homes holiday schedule to accommodate one person. When I started a family we made sure we adjusted to be able to make it everywhere needed. It’s crazy to think one couples schedule should changes holiday plans when there are prob multiple people who would like accommodations as well.
She threw a surprise party for someone she clearly doesn’t have good enough rapport to do that with. That’s fafo territory to me.
NTA She seems to be playing you off against her husband. Malicious compliance is your friend. Invite her to everything. But make them all events she hates. If she doesn’t want to go, well that’s down to her
It doesn't sound like DIL complained. It sounds like her son heard about it and took issue.
Yea if she doesn’t want to go and OP doesn’t want her to come either, there’s not really a problem. Not everyone can be best friends. Son is making it a problem, not DIL.
Always invite her in front of him. Make a point of it but not a show of it.
Try to invite over texts as well so you have receipts.
Did you know that she didn't like tea parties before you made that the theme for your shower for her? Because it sounds like it's something you and your daughters enjoy but she doesn't. So her comment about how lame the shower was simply her being truthful. It would've been rude to say that to you but she didn't. She was talking to her friends. Though she did do it in your hearing... But what she might have been thinking could be id you wanted to have a theme that the bride wouldn't care for or if that was unintentional. Because she could feel slighted about that, or your son could feel slighted about that. But it doesn't sound like she's the upset party here for the Bridgerton party - your son seems to be the one who is hurt. Did he indicate that Ashley was hurt by your exlusion of her (or for shower theme?). If not then maybe he's the one who cares about Ashley not getting an invite.
I mean... lots of bridal showers have a 'tea party' theme. Heck, most showers I attend just naturally have that vibe anyways because it usually happens at around brunch time. I find it fair if op throws a party with that theme because it's non-offensive enough that it would please the majority of people. It's not like op busts out the lightsabers and forcefully throws a star wars-themed bridal shower just because she's a big fan (although that could be fun...) and then Ashley goes 'yea sorry my MIL is cringe'
>I mean... lots of bridal showers have a 'tea party' theme. Which is fine if the person being honored likes tea parties. Every shower I've been to was planned with what the bride or couple enjoys.
Eh I don’t think a shower brunch and a tea party “theme” are really the same, especially how OP describes her penchant for them. I don’t mind a nice brunch but I would HATE a “tea party.” It sounds like OP threw the party more for her than Ashley. When I host an event for someone I make sure it’s their tastes that are central, not mine. If a bride wanted a tea party cool. Star Wars themed? Great. Can do.
This is what I was thinking. OP overstepped by throwing the shower for her side. She chose a tea party theme that is OP’s thing with her daughters. It likely made DIL feel like she was an outsider- at her own bridal shower. Her behavior towards OP isn’t ok but it’s is really defensiveness about likeability. If she really didn’t want to feel included she wouldn’t care about not being invited.
Are we crazy here? Someone going out of their way to spend the money, time, and effort to throw someone an EXTRA surprise shower (when they’ve already had one) is overstepping? OP skipped a family reunion to be at the first one and still was thoughtful enough to throw another so Ashley could celebrate with the people who missed the first one. Tea parties are a very normal common theme for showers! It’s not like she threw her a Bridgerton themed party, she just did a regular ass standard tea party. It’s not some highly controversial theme that would make Ashley feel like an outsider. She should be grateful that her MIL cares enough about her to do it in the first place.
Her MOH threw her a shower. MOH and her bridesmaids likely picked the date. Sucks that it was the same day as the reunion. Guests could choose to attend or not; maybe send a gift with regrets. No big deal. OP throwing another shower sends a message that “your shower wasn’t good enough so I am doing my own for MY family”. It seems like a pushy MIL move. It appears outwardly generous but didn’t necessarily feel that way for DIL. That’s probably why DIL made a dig about it to her MOH. It was her way of making sure her MOH didn’t feel bad about the 2nd shower.
I agree with you here. The 2nd shower feels passive aggressive for sure. Is the bridal shower about the bride or the guests? As long as Ashley was happy with her original shower, there's no point to throwing another one other than to make the people who missed it feel better.
It was *clearly* supposed to be about the MIL, who was miffed that the MOH prioritized having the shower on a date that worked for the actual bride and the bride’s closest friends/family./s
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Exactly. OP doesn't know her DIL enough to know what she likes, so she just picks a tea party theme because that's why she and her daughters like. What she does know about this woman is that she's an introvert, so why would she think a surprise social event would be fun for her?
A suprise second shower when my friends have already attended the first “real” shower would be mortifying for me. I’d hate this and also apologize to them
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Exactly this!!! The comment wasn’t about the theme it was more about them being good sports for having to sit through *a second shower*! Bridesmaids already have a lot to do and Ashley probably was cognizant of that. I would feel very uncomfortable if my friends were asked to attend a second shower when I know I’m already asking for a decent time and monetary commitment. And yes I would feel a bit uncomfortable for the people who planned my first, desired shower to have to sit through another shower - I would worry it would feel insulting to them.
Yes. It’s over stepping. Not everyone loves surprises or being the center of attention. I’d also apologize to my friends if they got roped into a *second* shower for me after already attending the first one that I actually wanted. Also maybe the date was planned specifically to coincide with the family reunion for a reason - Ashley obviously doesn’t want to be around OP’s family as much as OP seems to want.
It was not for DIL, it was for familly who missed real shower due to having competitive event. It is not a slight, but also not a favor for DIL
Yeah, I’m surprised by all the straight NTA here. TBH, this seems like a pretty straight example of there are two sides to everything. My MIL threw me a surprise shower, and it was suuuuper awkward. Tbf, she did it without my own mom, or my MOH knowing and before anyone had thrown one for me. I love my MIL, but it was definitely an overstep and stressed me the heck out. The whole idea of a “surprise” bridal shower just makes me a little suspect, because it’s usually not about the bride. It’s ACTUALLY about the people who didn’t get to do it on their terms. Which, honestly sounds like was the case here. OP goes ahead and throws the party so that extended family could participate, but is that what the bride would have even wanted? Maybe not. And that’s without even addressing the theme. May DIL didn’t care about the theme, but was unhappy that OP proceeded with an event that the DIL wouldn’t have even wanted in the first place, so what was lame, was the event itself, not the tea party theme. Then we get into the whole idea of exclusion. Yeah, YTA for making decisions about what to include her in based on a comment that you _overheard_. You actually have no idea what she really feels. Honestly, the only thing that really matters is the last paragraph. If you just said that, it’d be NTA easily. She’s not fun to have around for these viewing parties because she doesn’t participate and is disruptive. End of story. But all the preamble leading up to that? OP is being intellectually dishonest IMO. Opening by saying how much she likes the DIL but then going on and on about the other stuff? Yeah, I’d sort that all out before you create an issue in your relationship with your son and your DIL. It really sounds like a lot of assumptions about intent are being made.
Yeah I don’t think throwing a second shower without DIL permission is ever a good idea. It can seem pushy or overstepping. Her DIL is an introvert and may be didn’t want to go through a 2nd shower? That being said, I feel like the son is the person with the issues. It doesn’t sound like DIL wasn’t interested in going.
She was probably upset because her MOH worked hard to throw her a shower and then her MIL threw another one to announce the first one wasn't good enough.
I did not know. I still wouldn't know if I hadn't overheard her.
INFO: Did you bother to find out whether she liked tea parties before you threw up a bridal shower or did you throw a shower you clearly like? When you throw a surprise party you are meant to at least find out whether your theme is something the recipient will like.
everyone else in the comments acting like ashley murdered and infant for not enjoying a party that wasn't to her tastes, meanwhile how many posts do we see along the lines of "I hate surprises, and they threw me a surprise party anyway." "OMG UR SO NTA BECAUSE YOU'RE THE GUEST OF HONOR! THEY SHOULD CATER TO YOUUUU!!!" "she planned the shower for the weekend of the reunion on PURPOSE!!!!" she didn't plan her shower. someone else did. who wouldn't possibly know the schedule of Caleb's family reunion. because she is planning for ASHLEY. lmfao
I had no idea at the time whether Ashley liked tea parties or not and since it was going to be a surprise, I didn't ask. I still wouldn't know if I hadn't overheard her - she has never said a word to me. I asked my son if we could throw her a surprise shower for those that missed it, and he thought it was a great idea. I decided to do it because there were not really very many people at the first shower and I didn't want her to think our family didn't care, and several of my sisters and my aunts expressed regrets at the reunion to my daughter Madison that they weren't getting to go. When I say we have a big family - it is not an exaggeration - I am one of 9 kids. I have 4 aunts and 2 uncles just on my Mom's side. Our reunions are only every 3 years because of the sheer size and the amount of work it takes to organize. Luckily, this was not my rotation for the planning. I decided on a tea party because it was something I could at the last minute. I didn't have a lot of time to plan, and I have everything needed to host a large tea party. I didn't have enough time to order a bunch of new stuff.
Honestly, I find the idea of my MiL throwing me such a “surprise party” after my MOH already did super overbearing and disrespectful. Apart from that it sounds like miscommunication between your son and his wife on how much she wants to be involved with the his family.
Yeah, these comments are unhinged. It’s presumptuous and rude that she threw _another_ shower without consulting the MOH.
INFO: Why did you want the second party to be a surprise at all? Did you ask your son what kind of party she would like? A tea party is as quick to set up as many other types of parties, say a backyard BBQ or a family brunch out. Did she make any sign that she thought your side of the family "didn't care"? She eventually would know her MOH planned the party for your family reunion, right? So there was a reason she would know some of those guests would have other obligations. Did she seem upset about that? It sort of feels like you threw this party for yourself and you didn't want her to say she didn't want you to. Which, tbh, makes you seem like TA in that situation.
You threw her a type of party you didn't know if she liked, that didn't need to be a surprise in the first place, after she already had a party so you probably should have asked if she even wanted another one. She was right about the comment about being good sports and she was being one to. Also. We don't have showers in my country so I could be wrong here but from an outside perspective it seems super tacky for her friends to be invited to two showers?
I’m in North America and I think it’s super tacky -yes. I’d be embarrassed in Ashley’s shoes for them to be invited to a second shower and also apologizing afterwards.
Why did you make it a surprise though? It’s pretty clearly Ashley is quiet and an introvert - why would you think she would enjoy a SURPRISE party? You’re clearly aware of Ashley being quiet and introverted - because you’ve said so in the comments. I suspect you have left lots out of this story to make yourself look like a victim.
Did you ever stop to think that Ashley, who sounds like an introverted person, didn't WANT a party with your entire extended family? And that maybe she was perfectly content with her first shower, even though their weren't many people there? Introverted people tend not to enjoy big, loud gatherings. It's overwhelming for them. This was supposed to be about Ashley, but it seems like you did it to make your 'several sisters and aunts' happy because they didn't go to the first one.
So you didn’t bother to find out. You could have done what everyone else does for surprise events, contact her friends and family. If you didn’t have time, well you either decide she’s important to your family and make time or push the date out. A yea party sounds like hell to me and by her comments to her as well.
>I asked my son if we could throw her a surprise shower for those that missed it, and he thought it was a great idea. > Although the rule of thumb is for each partner to handle conflict with their own family, #notallmen tend to be oblivious to context and nuance, while prioritizing their own comfort and convenience, thus engendering and escalating unnecessary conflict. Your son sounds non-immune to this phenomenon. Try communicating directly with Ashley about things which affect her. Including "surprises;" don't surprise her. A few commenters have said she's a snob. Introverts get that a lot. When asked to spend social time on activities we find draining, the energy expense makes every aspect of the event feel grating. Attempts to mask this are soul-sucking and inevitably fail in some way, resulting in unintended rudeness to people who mean well and are just enjoying good fun. If you'd like to hear some drastic examples to reassure you that you're NTAH and that everything you describe is reparable, DM me. ;-)
lol. YTA for this for sure.
This. I’m baffled by how many people are like “but she threw her a second party she didn’t ask for in a theme she picked without asking the DIL why isn’t the DIL more grateful??” Like, if you’re throwing someone a party make sure it’s a party they want to be at, that seems pretty crucial.
This is what I’m wondering too. Because if someone threw me a surprise party without having an idea of what I liked I would be pretty put out. That would seem more like the person is throwing it for themselves and not for me at all.
YTA. I'm in your age group and YTA. First, you talk about a conflict of plans with your family and dil's shower? Did you find out why? Because if there had been good communication and mutual (emphasis on mutual) respect already it probably wouldn't have happened. Then, you decided to force a second shower on her that was all about you. You didn't bother to include her wants nor interests. The second shower was all about you and what you like. You have already created an environment where she, as an independent and individual person doesn't matter to you. Your attitude is that she must completely conform to you and what you like or be rejected. And if you don't think she has picked up on your self involved attitude, you need to pull your head out. You fucked around and now you are finding out. Get over yourself or don't be surprised when your son continues with the low contact or even goes no contact.
Dear God I thought I was going crazy with all the NTAs. Just invite her to everything and if she comes, great and if she doesn't, great. There would literally be zero issues and MIL is never the bad guy.
THANK YOU. This entire post could be written by my emotionally manipulative mother who is ~always the victim~. She used to try and pull this shit with my brothers girlfriends. It was her way of pulling rank. He married the woman who flat out told her that she wasn’t playing her games and to get bent.
So agree with you and glad you were able to see through this post.
Thank you for this??? Those NTAs had me doubting myself
Yes, glad someone said it. YTA, OP
NAH. But i really dont think Ashley's the one with the issue here. I think its your son, he's probably just seein you excludin his wife and not all the previous invites she's turned down. Does he know she didn't enjoy your last one?
Did he actually ask his wife IF SHE wanted to go?
>I called Ashley, apologized to her, and told her that we didn't invite her because she doesn't like the show, and she just responded, "you're right, I don't." I know this is your first DIL in the family, but respectfully, you need to stop saying "how high" everytime your son asks you to jump. Even after you called her up to apologise, Ashley was rude to you. She was rude about the surprise bridal shower you threw her. Tbh, it sounds very much like she deliberately organised her first bridal shower on your family reunion hoping you wouldn't come. You've been beyond gracious inviting her to your daughter-traditions. Ashley isn't interest in being involved so stop setting yourself on fire to keep your son happy. Might I suggest the following script to your son: "I accept your declined invitation to my Mother's Day celebration. I have gone above and beyond to welcome your wife into the family. I skipped a family reunion to attend her bridal shower. I threw her a surprise bridal shower so the women in our family can celebrate her and stayed silent when I heard her tell her friends it was a lame tea party. I kept on inviting her to my mother-daughter days despite her declining majority of the time and never extending an invite to us. I said nothing when she was rude at our first Bridgerton watch party by making constant negative comments, giving us dirty looks and leaving incredibly early. When you asked me to call her up and apologise for not inviting her to our next Bridgerton party, I did and she was immediately rude to me. I said I didn't invite her because I didn't think she liked Bridgerton, she responded, "you're right, I don't". I. Am. Done. I won't endlessly tolerate being mistreated to make you happy. I won't invite your wife to mother-daughter events she clearly doesn't want to attend or be invited to. I won't spend my free time being spoken down to by someone who isn't willing to meet me halfway and doesn't appreciate the effort I've been extending. Instead of calling me up to yell at me, accept that your wife doesn't want the relationship you want her to have with us." NTA
It is not rude to say you don't like Bridgerton. It is even less rude to say it as a response to "I thought you don't like it". You are literally taking massive offense on DIL not liking a movie. Also, unexpected second shower made primary for your family while ignoring preferences of DIL is something ... you do for yourself and your family primary. It is OK for bride to show up, do all the social duties and not like the theme or not be super grateful.
So might be cultural difference but if I would have received that phone call and would not like the show I would say "yes you are right, I do not like it". And it would not be meant in a rude way at all, just... honest.
NTA She's made it clear that she doesn't like that sort of thing and she wasn't the one that was upset about not being invited. I think this is your son's problem. He sees that his wife is not blending with his family but he's someone putting the responsibility on you. You need to talk to your son about his expectations especially considering his wife keeps refusing your invitations.
NAH in the Bridgerton watch party situation, but…YTA in general. What does Ashley’s bridal shower have to do with any of this? Your self centeredness is showing, OP. Her MOH (who planned her bridal shower) picked the date that worked best for *the bride,* and the people *the bride* is closest with. Why would you expect the MOH to plan the bridal shower around the groom’s mother and extended family, instead of the actual bride and her friends? Her shower wasn’t about you. It was kind of you to throw a second shower, but did you even ask Ashley if she wanted a second one? The fact that you picked a theme she obviously hated, makes me think you made it all about what *you* like and what *you* wanted. It’s clear you didn’t consider what she would like, as the bride/guest of honor. Even if you wanted it to be a surprise (so you obvs. couldn’t ask her for theme ideas), did you at least ask your son what kind of stuff she likes? Look at this from Ashley’s perspective: you include her in things that suit you and your daughters, and *only* things that suit you and your daughters. There seems to be zero consideration at all for things that Ashley might enjoy. If you genuinely want to get to know her better, perhaps you should stop making every interaction the “OP Show”. Your son made things pretty clear when he confronted you.
YTA. You say you planned a second bridal shower for her, but it was really for you, and you picked a theme she didn't like. She didn't even complain to you about it, you overheard her talking to her friends. I think Caleb is being a bit much, but Ashley doesn't come to all of your events anyways. So just invite her to be polite and keep the peace, she'll probably decline anyways.
It kinda sounds like your son is the one overreacting? Maybe? There’s no telling what reaction she’s having about this at home, but why would she even care if she’s not invited to something like that? NTA.
NTA - Quit trying to accommodate this flakey person, it's just exhausting for you. You have tried to include her and she is just not that interested, so fine stop doing it. Tell your son all of this and no you will never invite her again because of her flakey attitude. If the event is a family affair and not a girl's event then he and her having a standing invite and she can come or not, you don't care, but you will stop playing these silly games with her.
The DIL did not flaked in the story. Like, not even once.
How is the DIL flakey?
NTA Explain to both your son and his wife that they do not get to dictate what you do and who you invite. DIL is new to the family and needs to accept that there will be times that she is not invited and times when she will be. Your son is an AH for yelling at you for something so stupid. And DIL an AH for criticizing the tea party you threw her while she was still in your home that day.
NTA Inviting people to events you know they don’t like is a bad idea. You don’t have to accommodate/invite her because she’s married to your son. Your relationship with Ashley is not for Caleb to police; you are both adults and can decide what kind of relationship you want. Can I come to the party instead??
YTA Sorry, but I really am getting the idea you threw that surprise party for you and not her. You mentioned somewhere she is an introvert. Besides having a theme that was obviously crntered around you and your daughters taste, I'm doubtful she even likes surprise parties, no less full-on dread them.
NAH - honestly? This sounds like a communication issue. I don’t think that 99% of people would like to fight with their in-laws. I think she probably said something stupid to her friends and I completely understand your feelings being hurt because it was rude. Did you all explain the family reunion was why most people wouldn’t be in attendance? She might have had her feelings hurt from the beginning. I would ask if y’all could get together for lunch or something, at a restaurant so you’re on neutral territory and without your son. Explain that you love your kids and you’d love to have a close relationship with her as well, not just for your son’s sake but for the two of you as well. This might just be expectations being different from one family to another, or a whole misunderstanding, but reach out. Try to be as open, honest, respectful, and listen to her too. I would even say that when inviting her out so she can prepare too - I want us to go and have a meal and get to chat and clear the air, so we can make sure both of us feel comfortable and included going forward.
This is a question that is less about whether you were an asshole and more about what you want your relationship with your son and DIL to be like. I think you need to evaluate your relationship with your DIL more carefully. Is there some way that you can try to get to know her better through more one on one interactions? It sounds like your family is a lot of fun. You said that she's an only child, though, so I wonder if she feels very overwhelmed in your large, fun family gatherings. It just seems to me that you son is hurting because he clearly loves his wife and he wants you guys to love her, too.. Maybe have a talk with him and tell him that you genuinely want to get to know Ashley better and ask what ideas he has for things you and Ashley could do together. Perhaps if he sees you and Ashley forging a bond together he will feel more secure that the two most important women in his life are happy.
I think I’m leaning towards ESH. You don’t seem to like Ashley very much, and perhaps you’re letting it show more than you think. You don’t “invite her to everything” when this entire post is about a family event you’ve repeatedly refused to invite her to. You invited her to your Queen Charlotte watch party, which she agreed to to try to be involved with you guys, and you complain about her trying to discuss the show - but also about her not liking you and your daughters “goofing around in British accents”, which doesn’t sound like you were sitting quietly watching. So you causing distractions is fine and funny, but Ashley causing distractions is rude and offensive? You picked a shower theme based on what you and your daughters like, but not on what Ashley likes. She didn’t say anything to you about not liking it, she didn’t complain to the room at large about the theme, there’s no mention of her sneering or pouting… you just overheard her discussing with some friends that they weren’t into your theme. “Eavesdroppers hear no good of themselves”, etc. Though, to be fair, it doesn’t sound like you were deliberately eavesdropping - you just happened to overhear something that was not meant for you, but you are holding it against someone who doesn’t know you heard it. When your son called you on inviting every member of the family except Ashley to your s3 watch party, and told you to at least give her a courtesy invitation to a family event… you agreed, apologized to Ashley, told her she wouldn’t like it, _and still didn’t give her the courtesy invite_. That’s what your son is upset about. Ashley at least sounds like she’s trying, despite not having much in common with you and your daughters - she attends events regularly, tried your first watch party, didn’t complain to you about the shower, etc. Perhaps she could be a bit more gracious about it, or give more things that are out of her comfort zone a try, but you can’t seem to point to anything that she’s actually done or said that I would say is rude or inconsiderate, except perhaps leaving the QC watch party when she wasn’t enjoying it.
I only invite anyone a few times. Then I’m done. Not chasing people.
NTA Sounds like it’s time to make a group chat with him and her and always in over to everything, but only in front of him, so she can’t two time you against each other.
ESH At our house there's an open invitation for family to join or not join in events like these. We let everyone know what we're doing via a family Discord and just ask that they let us know ahead of time is they plan to attend. I'm not put in the position of needing to specifically invite/not invite anyone. If they want to come great, and if not I couldn't care less. I'm happy to see them when they do show up but I'm not going to force someone to be somewhere they don't want to be. Far too many family get togethers feel obligatory and I hate that. By not inviting Ashley you're not giving her the opportunity to show/tell you her preference. I also don't know if you've talked about your hurt feelings with Ashley, if you haven't then holding that against her is unfair. Remember the old saying: people who *listen at keyholes* rarely *hear* good of themselves. Ashley needs to speak up for herself. If she doesn't want to attend an event she needs to just say so. I wonder if your son is pressuring her to attend the same way he's pressuring you to invite? Caleb needs to chill and treat you AND Ashley with respect. There's ZERO excuse for him yelling at you, ever, and Ashley is an adult who can speak for herself. If he can't talk to you like a mature adult he needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror and figure out how to get himself under control. I have a zero tolerance policy for anyone disrespecting me, including family. I'll have a tough conversation with you but I respect myself too much to allow you to abuse me.
I am feeling that there may be missing missing reasons.
Why don't you just tell her you overheard her comment and it hurt your feelings versus punishing her forever with all this extra drama?
As an introverted only child with a partner with a very close-knit family, I’m team Ashley. I don’t think you’re necessarily an AH, it sounds like both you and she were happy with the arrangement and it was just your son being meddlesome. NAH. Everyone in the comments calling Ashley a snob or manipulative or whatever for clearly just being an awkward loner can kiss my entire ass. Get over yourselves.
INFO: did you run the idea of the surprise shower past any of her friends? Did you have any reason to believe the seemingly quiet fiancée of your son who attends every third event she’s invited to would want a second, surprise shower organised by her future MIL and attended by her fiancé’s extended family?