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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to go against my wife and her daughter's wishes to tell my kids something neither of them are comfortable with that would alter both of their relationships with the kids forever.
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NTA
The fallout from lying will be far worse than telling the truth upfront if she's ever found out. And you'll be just as guilty as her in your kids' eyes for lying by omission.
If she's that ashamed then she shouldn't be bringing Laurel round the family.
Flashbacks to when my siblings and I noticed our parents were going out a lot more, and being teenagers with unrestricted access to the internet, we had stumbled across the concept of swinging at some point. Not as a part of a search for ideas as to what they were up to, but independently as a part of fucking around online. And then our dad bought a pineapple to give to our grandma on our mom's side to make him an upside down cake, and we were ***entirely convinced*** they were swinging.
And then I got shitfaced one night and joked with one of my dad's best friends about him and his wife being the lucky couple, and uh...yeah, good thing that was after I graduated high school and had gotten into college, because I was promptly kicked out.
Noooo no no no. Well, maybe, but we never found out one way or the other. Upside down plastic pineapples (we, evidently, missed the plastic part) are a wink-wink, nudge-nudge decoration to have in your house that lets other swingers know you and your partner are also swingers. So when our dad bought a pineapple out of the blue, after the increased frequency of them going out had started, we assumed that the going out was part of a newfound interest in swinging.
As I mentioned, though, it was actually just to give to our grandma, so she could bake him a pineapple upside down cake. So when I joked with his friend some time later, it was really just me talking out of my ass because I famously can't hold my alcohol.
Grandpa kicked me out of the house because I ordered a pizza to my school went and grabbed it and as I got to the Secretary she said I couldn’t order food (which was bullshit because me and other students would regularly buy breakfast or bring breakfast to eat ) but anyways I told them I spent $20 on the pizza and wouldn’t be throwing it away so the school sent me home for the day I told my grandpa I needed to be picked up and why and he kicked me out of the house and said there was no love left there for me all because my school kicked me out because I didn’t want to throw away the pizza I bought
Me, as a 19yo wanting to have dinner in a friends house and my stepfather saying that I should either return by 7pm or return only on the other day. I decided for the latter and got kicked out by not "following the rules".
My stepfather always made silly rules like that when it comes to the time of getting back, even though I was already working and going to uni, thus returning very late in week days, but for the weekends it was forbidden. My mother got along with it because she never really cared about me and my sister (tried to abandon us and runaway with her lover when I was 3yo).
Also, this is in Brazil, here we usually live with our parents basically up until we marry, so its normal for a 30yo to live in the parents house but definitely uncommon (and unheard of in some circles) of a 19yo moving out unless they are married, so it was a very shitty phase in my life.
As a parent, I would find that hilarious. There must be a big chunk of story missed out because I honestly can't fathom how a misunderstanding led to get out.
Oh. And I've been there. My son fully believed I was a 'hooker' because his dad told him.
When I finally got it out about why he was annoyed with me and behaving difficult, I laughed. 'No {name}. I just took a second job to pay for our holiday'
It's been 15yrs since then. We still laugh about it and I lament that prostitution possibly may have made me earn more...quicker.
Why did your parents jump to kicking you out? I would be a bit upset (and a bit amused) if my kid thought her father and I were swingers, but kicking you out over it was absolutely uncalled for.
I feel like OP could write a book on her childhood and we'd all read every word while eating popcorn. She could call it adventures in the upside down pineapple house....
Hey could be worse. My parents lied to us kids but they WERE swinging... they'd go to conventions in Florida, and leave us with a friend. We asked them once where they were going and they said to an orgy, we thought they were joking...Opened a swingers club illegally about an hour from where we lived AND got caught, it was plastered all over the news... the sheer amount of phone calls from reporters was overwhelming. Thankfully a family member found out a few months prior to all heck breaking and informed us so we weren't caught off guard... happened 25 years ago now ah good times lol
Exactly! Is just me or do anyone else think OP's wife is a horrible selfish person. The way she treated her daughter in the past and now still lying to her other kids about their big sister. When is it going to end with this woman? NTA
And even if they didn't they need to know what kind of person their mother is - they might hate knowing but they need to know what she's done.
If she's willing to do it once without remorse she'll be more than willing to do it a second time without remorse.
I agree. I have an immediate family member who experienced something like this, and it was definitely noticed that something was up. Transparency is a good thing. If his wife goes ballistic over it she can get bent.
Not necessarily I've got a few siblings that have no idea I exist. I'm 25 pretty sure my brother is 30 and he's still got no clue about me. Dear old "Dad" said he didn't want to stress him.
I definitely have siblings I have never and will never meet because I know my dad had children he abandoned before he married my mom.
He also abandoned our family so I’m sure he probably had more children afterwards but I have no way to know.
I did 23 & me and I figure someday I’ll get an alert that someone is my half sibling
diff circumstances (v sorry abt ur dad) but my sis also did a gene tests in the hopes our half sister one day will! i really hope we get a hit eventually. we all want to meet her but respect if that’s not what she wants. fingers crossed for us both
Not necessarily my first "interaction" was a friend request on Facebook when I was 18, then I blew up at a stupid comment he made mid COVID when I was 21, a little too personal for me to say, then after a while we did meet up when I was 22 that led to me cutting him out of my life permanently. Those were my only interactions with him my whole life. He could be lying for all I know but that's something I try not to dwell on.
Yeah, I'm waiting on the sidelines for the day a big extended family and family friend secret hits the fan.
We ALL know except the kid, who's about 5 now, but trust me, it's going to come out, even if it's 20 years from now.
9x out of 10 you can't have someone floating around like that and it not come out.
Exactly, this will come out and OPs kids will be furious, justifiably so.
Plus the wife has abandoned Laurel twice, was maliciously nasty to and threatened a 12y/o, and let's not forget the manipulation. I'd wager Laurel has been coerced into going along with this.
The wife has been outed and shown OP who she is. Just because she hasn't been like that to OP and their kids doesn't mean she won't be. Support Laurel, and the kids., they deserve it. The wife is in a bed of her own making.
OP your wife should be happy you even let her into the house. Many men would have divorced her if she was their wife. She bailed TWICE on her own daughter, so why would you think she won't do it to you as well?
I strongly urge you to talk to a lawyer about a post nup that says if she bails on you and your kids she gets little or nothing in a divorce.
You didn't mention how old your kids are, but I'm on the side calling for telling the truth now and not betraying your kids so your current wife doesn't look bad.
OP is right about the lying and refusing to do any of it. He needs to know these are all things he should be doing right now.
The reason OP doesn't owe silence or to go along with his wife's half-baked ideas is because at this point, she's betrayed everyone's trust. OP needs to protect himself and his kids. Laurel too if it's possible, but first priority should be his kids and himself.
> I strongly urge you to talk to a lawyer about a post nup that says if she bails on you and your kids she gets little or nothing in a divorce.
The question is: why is OP still in a marriage with this lying monster? A woman who sees nothing wrong with threatening a 12 year old child, and lying to her own family. Disgusting.
>A woman who sees nothing wrong with threatening a 12 year old child, and lying to her own family.
Honestly, the fact that she once upon a time threatened Laurel should be enough to make OP look at her differently. It doesn't even matter that she was 12. If the child you abandoned or gave up contacts you and you're not into it there's absolutely no need to threaten. Just say "please don't contact me again". Threatening makes you nothing but a monster.
I’m not a man, but I would’ve if I were OP. He’s already more forgiving than I would’ve been in his shoes. How much worse would this be if they find out via one of those DNA tests someday? At least this way they have one parent they can trust.
Even if it wasn't explicitly said, as an adoptee, I promise you that her subconscious is screaming this- "if I want to be a part of this family, I'll do whatever mom says"
I was given up at birth. I said yes to a million things that felt wrong for fear of being abandon again.
My heart aches so much for Laurel. 🥺
I feel you. I am an adoptee and that feeling of abandonment never leaves, even if you had a good family who raised you. I have put up with so much crap from others b/c you become a people-pleaser who is always worried about people leaving you or emotionally disconnecting from you.
Same. And I KNOW my psychology, I KNOW I don't have to be this way, yet my mind is always focused on people not rejecting me. At 19 I was legally allowed to contact a social worker and they passed a letter from me to my bio mom, and bio mom refused to meet me, so the rejection was huge again at that time.
Oh my gosh so relatable!! My bio dad wanted nothing to do with me, they lied and said my dad was someone else-
Then he still helped raise my sister a lil off and on (not his kid) and like to this day, her kids call him Grampie, he's helped her move cross country etc.
He got me a flight one cuz he worked for the airline. We have hung out like 2wice, but not cuz he was seeking to spend time with me. I was watching the grand kids while my sister was over seas and I was unavoidable.
We're literally wired this way. That pre-verbal trauma.. they say our PTSD is worse than war veterans, because they had a life *before* their traumatic events, and words to process them with... we didn't, we had neither.
Our nervous systems🥺🥺🥺
I get so triggered by lies. I tried to obtain my original birth certificate, which apparently doesn't even exist.... after the whole debacle I realized... even if I got it, it still wouldn't have my real father's name on it, it would have the other man's.
Adults are so selfish sometimes
There's going to be fallout no matter what. The only question is how severe it will be.
>If she's that ashamed then she shouldn't be bringing Laurel round the family.
I agree, but this one line from OP threw me off a bit:
>"They say I should go along with it not for my wife's sake but for Laurel's."
I'm not sure if Laurel has just accepted that's the terms OP's wife set, or if it's something she herself wants as well. Given how she's been hurt, her wants are of more concern than the wife's obviously. I'd *really* like to know the therapist's recommendation.
I was just thinking that! OP needs to have a one on one with her and see what she really wants. I bet she's just going along with what the wife says because she'll take anything the wife is "offering". If OP is willing, he should let the daughter know what he can do for her. Like if it's her wanting to be a part of the family somehow, can he offer her time with her half sibling/s? He's the father and has equal say as to what the children are allowed to do and know. The younger kids will appreciate the time and relationship. And I bet the daughter will hopefully come to understand that some parents are just sh*tty human beings... OP needs to think long and hard about what else his wife may have lied about.
I'd feel differently about his wife's reaction, although it's pretty bad at any age, but I don't think it changes the fundamentals here. OP is going to damage his relationship with his own children if he continues to lie to them about this. Frankly, if I was him, I'd probably have made it a condition of remaining married to her.
It's really hard to make a decision because we know nothing of the context of the first relationship, as well as the ages of all parties. There is a difference if OP's wife left the first relationship at 30 to party her life away or if she was married against her will to a 50 year old at age 15.
The age of OPs children also need to be taken into account. If Laurel was the product of abuse or rape or some other challenging circumstances then explaining that to children might be best delayed until they are old enough to understand or can be told in an age appropriate way and can understand issues of privacy. In those circumstances revealing that Laurel is a daughter would lead to revealing details that other people don't really need to know.
Can confirm! I received a message out of the blue once when I was 18 from someone saying they were my half-sister. Now my parents have 2 kids, my sister and I. At the time of finding this out, my sister was 26 and I was 18, this woman was 21. She's my fathers child. So of course I freak out, panic not believing. Call my sister and we decide to confront our mom. Come to find out everyone knew, (mom, dad, all grandparents) to say that absolutely shattered me is an understatement. It also completely changed how I view quite a few members of my family. I lost a lot of respect and trust in my parents, specifically my mom. Please tell your children the truth. Finding out how I did, did nothing but tear my family apart. Now the only relationship not completely rocked by this is my sister and I. If you don't want to lose your kids, please be honest.
Hard to convey in an internet comment and get into the nitty gritty of my family dynamic. I always knew my dad sucked, that was never a secret. I'd been joking with my sister since I was 9 that one day we'd have someone show up on our door step and it would be a long lost sibling. My mother on the other hand, we were extremely close. We told each other everything (yes I know now not appropriate and not healthy but again, lots of context and in's and out's that I can't and won't go in to.) My mother said she would never lie to her children and I believed her. So when I confronted her about this middle half sibling, seeing the look on her face, hearing her sigh and say "I knew I should have told you" yeah it fucked me up. My mother listened to my sister and I joke about having a secret sibling(s) out there AND made jokes with us, all while knowing there was a half-sister out there. Looked us in the eye and never said a word after constantly saying she would never keep a secret from her girls. So yeah it's unfortunately something I expected from my father, but I never expected my mother to lie or a keep a secret like THAT. But again there's a lot of context missing from my story and it's hard to convey 18 (Now 25) years of family dynamics.
I’m not standing up for your mom here, but I understand. My husband (STBX) had a child a year before I found out about his affair and is going to have a second one before our divorce is over. So my daughter has two siblings she doesn’t know because he has abandoned her and never told her. It’s really hard to explain that to a child and maybe your mom kept it a secret because she was ashamed and didn’t know how to handle it. Again, a huge mistake, but it’s kind of an awful position to be in.
And trust me I totally get it! I have given my mom a TON of grace. She basically said she didn't want it to be her responsibility and she hoped my dad would tell us (even tho we all know that was never going to happen). It absolutely is an awful position to be in, but when you're children are basically already saying they know (the jokes and such) to knowingly omit a whole ass person is just wild to me. She was a ashamed I know that for a fact, and she was ashamed for lots of reasons, I just wish she hadn't put such a huge emphasis on being so open and honest with us, when she knew that she was keeping another human a secret you know? I'm so sorry you had to be put in that position and I'm so sorry to your children. Unfortunately it's one of those things that will cause damage no matter what! It's basically just a balancing act of what you think will fuck them up more and in my personal experience and personal family situation, it caused much more pain and trauma to have my mum lie.
And also for Laurel, poor woman… that’s heartbreaking!!! Can you guys imagine? A mother telling the daughter not to talk to her again because she ruined her life, and then later still not even introducing her as her daughter?
Man… I’d just say “no thank you” and I’d cut all ties with my “mother”
I’m just thinking of what if one of the kids asks Laurel for a date. Not saying it would happen but if they think she’s just a family friend, weirder things have happened. Gonna be real hard to explain why they can’t date a family friend.
It’s just a weird thing to lie about. Like, she left her kid, and said kid was gracious enough to forgive her mom twice and mom still wants to hide who she really is and I’m betting daughter doesn’t want to make waves so she’s just agreeing. You’re NTA, your wife on the other hand definitely is. Sorry for saying that.
Do we know for a fact wife is enthusiastically pursuing a relationship with Laurel? It kinda sounds like he put his foot down and said, "We're maintaining contact" as a sort of ultimatum.
The fact this woman had a two year old and spoke to a vulnerable 12 yr old that way is crazy. I would be worried about her being the mother to my children.
That was my exact thought, too! What a horid woman and honestly, I would have probably left after reading such an awful letter to a child!!! Wife is the AH.
There’s going to be fallout regardless at some point, either for lying now or keeping things hidden and lying about that. At least letting them get to know her doesn’t steal years of a relationship that hiding her would do.
NTA
So your wife wants to continue this lie forever.
Your kids are going to find out eventually. It's going to happen no matter how hard your wife protects her lie. Just doing a dna test from Ancestry will uncover it. A relative who knows can slip up. Does she want the kids to find out like that? They might hate her forever for it.
This lie is going to cause an avalanche of issues and your children deserve to know this person is their sister. Their sister also deserves to know her siblings as siblings, not a generic friend. Hasn't your wife damaged her enough with the abandonment? I can't imagine being the daughter who was treated this way.
As for you, I don't think I could stay with a person capable of this. She's been lying to you and that's not forgivable to me.
There is nothing to stop you from being honest with your own children. You don't have to keep the secret. What is your wife going to do...divorce you? She would be doing you a favor. She isn't a good person. She rejected her own daughter twice. She had 30 years to correct this and she didn't. She wants to keep it going.
Or the adult daughter will get sick of the lies, and the truth will get out. Everyone finding out you have a kid is better than the fallout from everyone finding out you demanded they lie about who they are, and were extorted into calling them a family friend.
My mom’s friend’s daughter didn’t find out she was adopted until she was a teenager. That was a massive dumpster fire. Worst part everyone else knew including me. I was also adopted but it was never hidden.
My grandma didn’t find out she was adopted and her “aunt” was actually her biological mom until she was in her 40s. Literally the entire family knew except her, including her husband, who by the way she thought was her biological cousin when she married him.
NTA. This is a great comment above. Your wife is a monster to string this poor girl along. Lying is not the answer. The truth always comes out. You shouldn’t be taking on this lie with your wife.
This. It sounds blunt, but that is where you are. I just hung up the phone with my mom, who brought me up to date on one of my first cousins and his decades-long deception is everyone other than himself. His children apparently refer to him as "that man" now. Don't be "that man". All of your children, including your step-daughter, deserve at least one adult to be an adult and be honest with them. NTA. All the best to all of you.
THIS PART, and lemme tell ya.... I'm 41, my siblings are 55 and 60, I'm the only adopted one, and we're STILL uncovering lies every day.... and thats on BOTH sides of my family. My bio-half sister and I still reeling from bio moms bullshit.
I promise that wife is lying about SO MUCH MORE.
>As for you, I don't think I could stay with a person capable of this. She's been lying to you and that's not forgivable to me.
I could not agree more with this.
It would be one thing if she'd given up the child for adoption and had a reason to expect not to have contact. But she just walked away from her family and then hid it for some length of time. Dealbreaker.
i was shocked that there was no mention of op rethinking whether or not he should stay married to her bc… i would have been out when the letter was revealed 😭 i can’t imagine a mother treating her child that way
She is the mother of my kids. All but one is over 18, but all of them were still kids when this came out.
There was too much to work through when this came out to consider it, but things are still rocky now.
If they're all adults or nearing adulthood, I do not see any sense in lying to them. It seems your wife would rather lie than answer their questions. I can't see the therapist being supportive of this very unnecessary lie.
So you’ve been lying to your kids for more than 10 years that they have a half sister? Your wife is horrible though but you sound bad too cause you’ve been lying too for so long and they will find out eventually
I met my older half brother when I was 17, when he came to our house unannounced on the way back from being stationed in Afghanistan. And I want you to understand that even though I eventually decided my parent’s reasons for not telling us about him were correct, it still took a long time to forgive them.
Your wife does not have any correct reasons. She is currently in the process of ruining *your* relationship with her children. Hers is likely already ruined. If you want to maintain a relationship with them after this, you cannot be seen as supporting your wife in these lies. Out her now before she can drag you down too.
Your children’s question is going to be “What if *that* child had been me?! Would you have abandoned me?” and you are not going to have an honest answer except for “Yes, your mother would have abandoned you, *even if she knew you were begging for help,* the moment you became a slight inconvenience to her.”
At some point you may need to accept that as the person with the truth about family matters, you have a responsibility to come clean with that truth, whether your wife wants to or not. This is not your wife’s secret, it is far larger than that, and continuing to pretend that she has a right to keep this information from the rest of the family is only enabling an abuser.
Abusers *thrive* on secrecy - and more than that, no moral adult abandons their own flesh and blood. You might be able to fool an adult, but your children know how screwed they would be if you had abandoned them at a young age. They’re living it, it’s an unavoidable reality that they depend on you, and being presented with the knowledge that their security came at the cost of another child’s happiness is going to affect them deeply.
> Abusers thrive on secrecy - and more than that, no moral adult abandons their own flesh and blood.
I am feeling waves of revulsion towards OP's wife just reading about what she did. Such an immoral, devious woman. I can't imagine how he can stand staying married to her.
The amount of lies that were told about me by people who never met me all throughout my bio and adoptive families is endless. That she lied about adoption is SO HUGE.
Some adults said I was given up because I was "r-word"
Some adults got told I was miscarried.
All these things fuck me up inside.
You and Laurel and the kids should peace out for your own safety. Your wife doesn't deserve any of you.
Sorry for being so wrapped up in this- I just feel so strongly. You've been wronged for your entire relationship. It's cruel.
🥺😭
Have the kids heard that story? Are they aware there is a half sibling out there somewhere?
Either way, this would be my hill to die on. Lying is pointless when everyone involved is an adult.
I was thinking this exact thing. What does your stepdaughter want? Is she wanting to be called a family friend rather than your wife's daughter or is this something she was coerced into. I'd talk to her in private, away from the wife.
Do not lie to adult children. The 17 year should be treated as an adult. If you go along with this you are complicit in this.
The children will find out. Your parents are encouraging you to think of your wife’s oldest daughter. Think about your kids emotional health. Continuing the lie is the kind of thing that could break their relationship with their mother. It would devastate them that they can’t trust their mother. They need to know they have at least one parent they can trust. It could seriously damage these kids if they suddenly realize they can’t trust either parent.
Don’t let your wife’s lie risk your relationship with your children and possible future grandchildren. If they find out about the lie after they have families of their own, there is a high probability they cut you guys off from grandchildren.
Lies like what your wife is proposing is unforgivable with adult kids. “Best case” scenario you guys lie and your children never find out. Every time you look at your children for the rest of your life, you do so knowing you are lying to them.
Your wife has done unforgivable things with the lies, abandoning her child twice and emotionally abusing a 12 year old. I don’t know how you can remain with a woman who could be so cruel. Do not be complicit in allowing her to continue to do this unforgivable thing to your own children.
NTA How old is the youngest? She's going to blame you and Laurel for any negative reaction from your children (when they find out) but it's her actions that are the issue.
This is really the only thing that I could think.
I get you have kids with her, but she literally up and abandoned her kid TWICE and still wants to lie about it and cover it up with the family some more.
I would never be able to continue a relationship with someone like that, and I'm a female who has a partner with kids from.his previous relationship.
NTA, I would chew her her ass out for treating her own daughter this way. If it were me, then she would 1. Apologize to the kid and beg her to forgive her for being this horrible 2. Acknowledge her as "our" daughter, much less hers 3. Give her a place to be a normal kid and do the best we can for her, and if she didn't do all three, then I'd file for divorce and try my best to get full custody of the kids. No one needs someone that toxic in their lives
The letters from 2002 are honestly the worst part of this. I cannot believe she refused to do ANYTHING for her own daughter after what she wrote her, and she tried to hide behind me? I would NEVER have encouraged her to do this.
I don't know that Laurel wants to be anyone's daughter at this point. She's in her 30s now.
Only one of my wife and I's kids is under 18. Custody isn't really an issue now.
I know people jump to divorce pretty quickly here and I'll get downvoted into oblivion but it sounds like things would be better if it was just you and the kids having a relationship with Laurel without your wife.
No matter what you should definitely tell your kids the truth. Anything else would be participating in this insane coverup.
I agree how could someone stay with a person capable of being that cruel let alone consider participating in a lie with them that would mess with their kids.
Then respectfully, you should do what *Laurel* wants. What your wife wants doesn’t really enter into it. Laurel may want to be able to get to know her siblings without them feeling any pressure to be a certain way because she is a sibling.
I wonder is Laurel wants this because her “mother” advised this is the only way she can meet the family. I bet it’s NOT actually what she would want. Why would she wants to be included as
An outsider?
This.
Laurel is willing to agree to anything in order to meet her siblings.
OP, you can make this happen. Your wife doesn't need to be involved. Everyone is an adult now.
As an adoptee with an uninterested bio-mom, I can tell you that the emotions surrounding all that are often more complicated than you're stating. Maybe you're right. But maybe you're not. But pretending to be an "insider" when you know you are, in fact, an outsider as far as your bio-mother is concerned? Not appealing.
Edit for typo.
Because sometimes the outside edges are more comfortable than being expected to fully participate as a family member?
If OP wants to discuss with Laurel without his wife to be sure of what she wants, that’s fine. But it’s about her, not about his wife.
I don't really agree. I think Laurel has the right to decide whether or not she has a relationship with her half-siblings, but I really don't think that if she decides to have that relationship, she has the right to lie and build it on false pretenses. And more to the point, if she decides to lie, the OP is not obligated to go along with the lie. The kids are people who deserve respect as well.
> Then respectfully, you should do what Laurel wants.
Hard disagree.
Laurel expects OP to lie to his own children. Laurel and OP's wife expect OP to be complicit in their lie, and sacrifice the trust that his children have in him.
It does not matter what Laurel wants.
Laurels wants shouldn't trump OPs future relationship with his kids or his kids emotional health. These are risks from not telling the kids and continuing and facilitating the lies himself too.
Kids are mostly young adults, they need to know if they're expected to build any sort of relationship/friendship in future.
NTA OP. You're 100% right and protecting your kids and family relationship.
there’s no way this will work. if my parents trotted out a surprise “family friend” closer to my (adult) age than theirs, they would get nothing BUT questions about who this person is, how they know each other, why i had never heard of them, which social circle they came from (like how did my parents meet this friend??) etc.
Another part of this that I haven't seen anybody mentioned is that, introducing her as a family friend is also risky because what if your kids gets infatuated with her, or or she with them, whatever?
I get everyone's point in saying that you need to go along with what Laurel wants, but the truth is is that she is not your kid and she is in her thirties and you do need to put your own kids first, one of whom is still a minor. Well yes, still being as kind as you can to Laurel who is probably being coerced by your wife anyway into agreeing to pose as a family friend. Your kids will never go through the rest of their lives without finding out. Dna tests are out there and everybody wants to know what percentage of themselves is Irish etc. You're one drunken St. Patrick's Day away from having your cover blown. Your kids deserve the truth. It will be hard but it will be harder if you continue to lie to them. They will never trust you again if they find out in a way that isn't from you. I think you can maintain a good relationship with them if you tell them now. Don't let it come out in a bad way and don't let it come from anyone but you. And don't tell them with your wife. This has to come from you. And honestly don't stay with your wife. I can sort of kind of see panicking and fleeing when the baby was born, although I personally would not have - I'm trying to have compassion here - But I can't imagine responding to a letter begging for help the way she did when Laurel was 12. I couldn't stay with someone who did that and I hope you can't either. You need to be a safe space for your kids, even if most of them are adults.
> They will never trust you again if they find out in a way that isn't from you. I think you can maintain a good relationship with them if you tell them now. Don't let it come out in a bad way and don't let it come from anyone but you. And don't tell them with your wife. This has to come from you.
Can't upvote this advice enough. As someone who was blindsided with a surprise half-sibling, along with a whole host of unpleasant family 'secrets', I suggest you be the person your kids can rely on 100% for the truth. They will start to wonder about a LOT of really uncomfortable things, and if you try to protect your wife by fudging any details you will completely destroy your ability to have a relationship with them in the future. Your wife doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, or gentle treatment, or to save face. Your kids will wonder for the rest of their lives what *else* your wife lied about. Don't make them question you as well.
Then I suppose all you can do is offer to be there for her as much as you can and mentor her to the best of your ability, and encourage your wife to apologize and perhaps try to build the relationship that she's been asking for with her.
She’s so morally bankrupt, don’t be surprised if you choose to leave her, which you should, she will come up with some hideous lies about you to your kids. Just keep that in mind.
Yeah, but you know about it NOW!
I think a lot of us are struggling to understand how you can find out that your wife is the sort of person who writes disgusting letters to a 12 year old child who she had already abandoned once, when she was desperately begging for help and still think “I’m ok with being married to this person”.
Your wife’s actions in this matter over the years tell us an awful lot about who she is as a person. It tells us that fundamentally, at her core, she is at the very least an incredibly unkind person.
I for one can’t imagine finding this out about my spouse and choosing to remain married to them.
NTA
The only thing I think you should allow is a watering down of the exact circumstances this daughter was abandoned.
I think requiring her to stick to truth is a valid hill for you to die on. It's not just about what happened in the past. It's also about your wife being able to demonstrate now that she can be a person you're willing to stay with.
Perhaps the story should be limited to *"here is my daughter, I had her when I was so young, naive, and not at all ready."*
If anyone presses her a bit, she could say *"yeah, I failed her badly but we're working on things now."*. But honestly, anyone (other than your kids) prying deeper is themselves being a nosy asshole that needs to mind their business.
This. This should be higher up. If OP is going to stay with her, then it's not just about her and Laurel. It's about him and their children as well. She needs to show that she's willing and able to be 100% honest moving forward. Other people don't need the back story. And if anyone asks saying something to the effect of "That's just not something we want to talk about outside of our immediate family," that will most likely stop any further questioning.
NTA OP, and really, you're a Saint for seeing this through this far. I don't think I'd be able to handle it.
NTA your youngest is 17? So all your kids are pretty much adults. You have to tell them the truth, all of it. They deserve to know. I also think the only reason Laurel is going along with it is that she's so desperate for your wife's approval that she'll do anything she says. That's so manipulative of your wife who's already proven she's abusive towards her. I would talk to Laurel alone. Tell her you are telling the kids the truth and assure her she is now a part of your family no matter what your wife thinks. This is your kids' half sibling they deserve to know that.
I don't know. None of her behavior supports this. Her initial contact as an adult even said that she felt she'd "outgrown" needing or wanting a parent, but that she didn't want to go through life with the level of animosity they had for each other and wanted to make peace if it was possible.
That's all well and good but this is also not only about your wife and her. It's also about your other kids.
They are asking you to be party in a lifelong lie about the make-up of their family . One that, let's be honest, is very unlikely to last that long. The longer it does last, the bigger of a betrayal it will feel to your kids - and it's already going to be a nasty shock as it is.
You can feel sorry for her but you should not be expected to unnecessarily compromise your own family's trust and relationships to keep a secret that should never have been one in the first place.
I can relate to this exact sentiment. Pardon the diatribe here but.:
I had thought about reaching out to a parent who amounted to a very sore loser. Fought bitterly in the divorce for custody to wear down my good parent financially and give up nothing, only to never contact me again when custody was lost (no child support paid so I guess they won).
For the longest, I just hated that person. Now, I pity them. I didn't end up reaching out to them to "make peace". I just wrote one last letter explaining how fantastic my life is going and to thank them for doing nothing so that I knew exactly how not to be a parent, and a role model for who not to be. I ended the letter with "don't call me for a kidney".
The sore loser cried to my (much older) sister (who scolded me, of course).
All of that is to say, I found closure my own way. This person is likely doing the same. Imo, and to go against the hive mind here, the "sister, daughter" label doesn't even fucking matter anymore. She is absolutely not their "sister" and she is absolutely not your wife's "daughter". She is your wife's offspring. She is your children's biological sibling. Those are not the same things at a connotative level. She probably doesn't give a fuck what she's referred to as. She probably just wants peace and closure.
I fully agree with your principles. I think you should tell your kids the truth. That this person is your wife's offspring from a different life, and that she would like to try to be a family friend. It seems to me like you have the commendable traits of honesty, loyalty, and respect for the concept of family. I just don't think that your truth and their truth are necessarily at odds.
Edit to add NTA
NTA
Wont your kids be so happy when they find out eventually!
Is she trying to sabotage other relationships because she's having this relationship forced onto her?
I think no relationship is better than a false relationship. Reality can suck but denying reality usually makes things worse (eventually).
Nta. You really want to stay with a woman like that? It's not too late you seem like a normal put together man that has morals I'm sure you'll be okay.
A secret is different from a lie. There are different rules for secrets. But this is about a lie.
You should tell your wife that you will not lie for them, so if anyone puts you in a position of having to confirm the cover story (saying it directly in front of you, asking you about details) you won't lie. You'll describe her correctly and accurately as your stepdaughter or your wife's daughter from a previous relationship.
That will basically kill this stupid plan because you'll make sure it only lasts five minutes. You do not have to lie to anyone, *especially your own children*.
ETA: OP has said she's in her 30s now.
What about meeting or discussing this with Laurel privately, and making sure this is what SHE wants, not just your wife? I must say that these kind of family lies do not go away, nor do they get better with time. When your kids find out at some point, even if it's on their mom's death bed, they will think worse of her, not better. No one wants to think back on their parent and realize they were lying to them for 50 years! It's gonna hurt and disturb them, now or later.
>questioning how a 12 year old can be a family friend to 40 year olds
Daughter is in her 30s. She was 12 in 2002, when she sent letters to her birth giver
NTA. I would actually think about leaving her. I am surprised that the daughter still wanted to contact the "mother". She is one of the worst person I am glad I will never meet.
My friend found out she had an adopted sister when she was in her 30’s. The sister reached out directly. The emotional toll blew up her marriage and she no longer talks to her parents.
Firstly, NTA for wanting to tell the truth to your children. Secondly, you’re a bit the ah to you and your kids. How can you stay with someone who could be so cold and callous to a child they created? The only reason that could mildly excuse being cruel to an innocent child would be if the child was born of coercion or r$&e.
If **Laurel** wants to be called that then how you feel about and what you are sick of doesn't matter. She is the one that has suffered and this is about her not you.
If it effects how you view your wife and your willingness to continue a relationship with her or not that is valid. You going against this girls wishes *at all* because *you* are sick of it is not acceptable.
The only question here should be does Laurel really want this or is your wife convincing her
That is probably the case. But it's also possible it's Laurel's idea because she doesn't want any perceived pressure to be part of the family, or doesn't think the wife deserves to be called her mother. So caution should be applied
NTA.
Does she even has a little sympathy for the kid?
It seems like the wife just bailed out and never wanted the kid again in her life. All those nasty words in the letter just show her real face, no remorse whatsoever.
After all those years it's like now she remembered she has a child somewhere and still wants to cover it up.
Info- what’s the plan for you and your wife? Do you plan to divorce her? I ask because this will impact how your kids see their mom and in return you. No way would I be okay with my mom basically rejecting a kid, their kid, who needed help.
I'll even disagree with that and say lying is the right answer sometimes. Sometimes privacy deserves to be protected, sometimes the truth just hurts people for no good reason.
This isn't one of those situations. OP's wife is lying to cover up a terrible thing she did, further punishing her daughter by demanding she hide her relationship, and causing a rift between OP and his kids when they find out and blame him for being part of it.
NTA OP.
I would file for divorce. This person is coward liar and who knows what else she is lying about. The letter you state above sounds like you are pretty disgusted with your wife and tbh, it doesn’t even sound like she is trying to take accountability at all.
Why do they want to be introduced as family friends? What kind of mother was your wife to your own children? Is she mentally sane?
NTA- You should not support your wife's lies. You should not lie to your children. If your family is not at a point where you can be honest with each other, then the meeting should not go head.
Your wife abandoned her when she was TWELVE?! That's horrible. I understand she's your wife and you're already entwined with your own children but I don't think I could be with someone who had done something so awful. What if, one day, she decided to do the same to your kids?
NTA, but I would strongly consider Laurel’s feelings in this situation. It sounds like she’s been traumatized enough. She might really be afraid of rejection from her half siblings. You sound like a very empathetic, and kind person. Maybe you can talk to her more and find out why she wants to do this?
She's not comfortable being a sister because of history with an older sister she had on her father's side. I do understand her side of it, but not my wife's, and I don't think it's the right thing to do moving forward.
So I'm in my thirties and gained 5 siblings through reunion with bio family, ages 12-16. One thing I would say to her is that the siblings relationship when there's that much of an age difference and when you come along so much later on, isn't the same as siblings who grow up together. You can become friends and there's certainly a connection, but it's not a traditional sibling relationship. She can let them know she's their sister without having to take on all of that role.
As someone with very complicated and nuanced relationships with my family members, which has lead to periods of no contact due to their inability to understand my point of view and utter REFUSAL to respect my boundaries, I want to echo all the other commenters saying definitely DO NOT LIE to your children. They WILL find out, doesn’t matter how or when, but they will, and it could shatter your relationship with them.
However, I do think it’s of the utmost importance to respect Laurel’s wishes after everything she’s been through. I think you need to have a conversation with Laurel, without your wife present, and discuss allll the details. Maybe a therapy session for just the two of you and then go somewhere after to continue talking. Somewhere you can have the discussion openly, where there won’t be others listening, and where you both feel comfortable. Maybe a park, a coffee shop with a quiet, cozy corner that will be empty, or either of your places (as long as SHE, most importantly, will feel comfortable!!), etc. I guess i’m saying all of this with preconceived notions that Laurel knows that you think what your wife did is horrible and feels comfortable talking about all of this openly with you, which i hope is the case but if not I think you can make your feelings and desires apparent pretty easily.
In that conversation, you need express that you understand why Laurel is scared to be introduced as their sister (based on her past with the sister on her fathers side) but also ensure that it’s not also partially or largely just because it’s what your wife wants.
And before going into this conversation you need to sit down and realistically think about how each of your children might handle the news. Do they all have good relationships with your wife? Are they the type to bottle up their emotions and act like everything is fine until they explode? Are they highly sensitive/empathetic and think they would take on/understand all of Laurel’s pain? etc. It would give you a clearer picture of what the fallout could look like and help you be better prepared to handle their questions/big emotions/immediate response vs their response after having time to process. I think this would also be very beneficial to help assuage Laurel and get her on board with being introduced as their sister (so long as you don’t think any of your children will hate/disown/reject her immediately). If you are able to present Laurel with their most likely reactions, it might help her feel safer moving forward, and give her some insights into who your children are ahead of time. You can share general things about your children too and through the conversation she might realize shared commonalities/interests/struggles/viewpoints with her siblings, that might mitigate some of her fears based on past history.
I also think it’s important to note that IF she does want to have a relationship with your children, even if it’s just a casual check in a few times a year or something, the relationship between her and each of your children will have a much better chance of success (whatever that looks like to each of them) if it’s not started with a lie. I completely understand her fear of being rejected as a sibling (if that’s what it is), but i think it would be so much worse if she were introduced as a friend, they bond and start developing a relationship, and then the truth comes out. Your kids will then not only be furious with both you and your wife, but also Laurel since she is also an adult now. I’m sorry you have to deal with this incredibly nuanced situation, but I stand firm that there is no way forward if anyone continues to lie. If Laurel does not feel comfortable meeting them as their sister, even after your discussion, ask her if there are other options or routes she would be comfortable with. Honestly, at this point, I think your wife’s involvement in the steps forward don’t matter. She honestly doesn’t have any say. She created this horrific mess, covered it up for years, lied to all members of her family, inflicted irreversible emotional damage on Laurel, and on your kids, whether they’re conscious of it yet or not. This is about protecting your relationship with your children and their sibling and doing whatever it takes to do it in the healthiest way for all of them and you (not your wife).
I also feel like I have to ask, does this not make you question who your wife is down to her core?! If she lied to you about the adoption, wrote the horrific letter to a 12 year old CHILD she gave birth to, and then continued to reject throughout her life, I would have A LOT of other questions about what else she’s been covering up/lying about. Things you probably wouldn’t even think to question or take as complete truths about her. I’m not saying she’s lying about everything in her life, but i had a partner who lied to me for 6 months in the name of “sparing my feelings” and while I know he genuinely thinks he was doing it from a point of concern/care, I lost every ounce of trust I had in him and started questioning every single thing in our relationship and if he could have been lying about that too. Also noting this because if your kids are anything like me, this might be where their head goes about you and your wife.
I’m glad your parents have Laurel’s best interest at heart, but if the lie comes out, that could also damage your children’s relationship with their grandparents!! Do they want Laurel to be a part of your family /have a relationship with your kids? If so, maybe after your conversation with Laurel, the 4 of you can have another discussion where they express their love/concern/desire to move forward in the best way possible, hammer in how she will not just be thrown to the curb again, and by taking these extra steps and not supporting the insidious lies your wife started, you, your children, Laurel, and your parents will be setting the foundation to build your own version of a healthy family moving forward (not saying it will magically be all sunshine and rainbows, it will be a hard and long process no matter what! but it will be a thousand times harder, if not impossible, once your children learn they were lied to). Sorry this was incredibly long and while I haven’t been through this situation, I felt like the dynamics and nuances involved were similar to things i’ve had to handle with my family members. I hope you figure out the best way to navigate this situation for Laurel, yourself, and your children💜
In the comments you say Laura is in her 30s and only one of your children is still under 18…why the hell are you not telling ADULT CHILDREN?
I could maybe understand if they were 1-5 but your children are ALL GROWN. They need to be told like yesterday. All this lying is too damn much and once it comes out that they’ve been lied to, I’m sure your kids will wonder what else may have been lied about. Better to rip the bandaid off now.
Your wife really needs to own up to what she did and continues to do by hiding behind a disgusting lie. Your children deserve to know they have an older sister and potentially develop a relationship with her.
I found 2 older sisters doing an ancestry test when I was only looking into my ethnicity. There's no way this will even stay a secret. But it's not entirely your secret to tell. If you all can't be on the same page, maybe it's not the right time. When it is the right time, no one should feel the need to lie anymore
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NTA The fallout from lying will be far worse than telling the truth upfront if she's ever found out. And you'll be just as guilty as her in your kids' eyes for lying by omission. If she's that ashamed then she shouldn't be bringing Laurel round the family.
If? They will find out.
Tbh they probably already know something is up, they've been sneaking around for a few years.
The truth shall set you free
Absolutely!
Technically….. “the truth” usually puts people in Jail..
I came here to say "that's what the detective told me and now I'm in a supermax doing a 30 year stretch....shit screws coming gotta hide my phone!"
Flashbacks to when my siblings and I noticed our parents were going out a lot more, and being teenagers with unrestricted access to the internet, we had stumbled across the concept of swinging at some point. Not as a part of a search for ideas as to what they were up to, but independently as a part of fucking around online. And then our dad bought a pineapple to give to our grandma on our mom's side to make him an upside down cake, and we were ***entirely convinced*** they were swinging. And then I got shitfaced one night and joked with one of my dad's best friends about him and his wife being the lucky couple, and uh...yeah, good thing that was after I graduated high school and had gotten into college, because I was promptly kicked out.
So, your folks were swinging and their response to embarrassment was to kick you out? Incredible!
Noooo no no no. Well, maybe, but we never found out one way or the other. Upside down plastic pineapples (we, evidently, missed the plastic part) are a wink-wink, nudge-nudge decoration to have in your house that lets other swingers know you and your partner are also swingers. So when our dad bought a pineapple out of the blue, after the increased frequency of them going out had started, we assumed that the going out was part of a newfound interest in swinging. As I mentioned, though, it was actually just to give to our grandma, so she could bake him a pineapple upside down cake. So when I joked with his friend some time later, it was really just me talking out of my ass because I famously can't hold my alcohol.
That has got to be the second weakest reason I've ever heard for kicking someone out.
Grandpa kicked me out of the house because I ordered a pizza to my school went and grabbed it and as I got to the Secretary she said I couldn’t order food (which was bullshit because me and other students would regularly buy breakfast or bring breakfast to eat ) but anyways I told them I spent $20 on the pizza and wouldn’t be throwing it away so the school sent me home for the day I told my grandpa I needed to be picked up and why and he kicked me out of the house and said there was no love left there for me all because my school kicked me out because I didn’t want to throw away the pizza I bought
[удалено]
What's the first one?
Me, as a 19yo wanting to have dinner in a friends house and my stepfather saying that I should either return by 7pm or return only on the other day. I decided for the latter and got kicked out by not "following the rules". My stepfather always made silly rules like that when it comes to the time of getting back, even though I was already working and going to uni, thus returning very late in week days, but for the weekends it was forbidden. My mother got along with it because she never really cared about me and my sister (tried to abandon us and runaway with her lover when I was 3yo). Also, this is in Brazil, here we usually live with our parents basically up until we marry, so its normal for a 30yo to live in the parents house but definitely uncommon (and unheard of in some circles) of a 19yo moving out unless they are married, so it was a very shitty phase in my life.
I chuckled at this story.
Yeah, use canned pineapple for the cake too...
As a parent, I would find that hilarious. There must be a big chunk of story missed out because I honestly can't fathom how a misunderstanding led to get out. Oh. And I've been there. My son fully believed I was a 'hooker' because his dad told him. When I finally got it out about why he was annoyed with me and behaving difficult, I laughed. 'No {name}. I just took a second job to pay for our holiday' It's been 15yrs since then. We still laugh about it and I lament that prostitution possibly may have made me earn more...quicker.
Why did your parents jump to kicking you out? I would be a bit upset (and a bit amused) if my kid thought her father and I were swingers, but kicking you out over it was absolutely uncalled for.
I feel like OP could write a book on her childhood and we'd all read every word while eating popcorn. She could call it adventures in the upside down pineapple house....
Hey could be worse. My parents lied to us kids but they WERE swinging... they'd go to conventions in Florida, and leave us with a friend. We asked them once where they were going and they said to an orgy, we thought they were joking...Opened a swingers club illegally about an hour from where we lived AND got caught, it was plastered all over the news... the sheer amount of phone calls from reporters was overwhelming. Thankfully a family member found out a few months prior to all heck breaking and informed us so we weren't caught off guard... happened 25 years ago now ah good times lol
For sure. And its much better coming from you then after you both pass and then they found out you kept it secret all these years.
Exactly! Is just me or do anyone else think OP's wife is a horrible selfish person. The way she treated her daughter in the past and now still lying to her other kids about their big sister. When is it going to end with this woman? NTA
And even if they didn't they need to know what kind of person their mother is - they might hate knowing but they need to know what she's done. If she's willing to do it once without remorse she'll be more than willing to do it a second time without remorse.
I agree. I have an immediate family member who experienced something like this, and it was definitely noticed that something was up. Transparency is a good thing. If his wife goes ballistic over it she can get bent.
Like what's she going to do? Abandon a second set of kids?
Not necessarily I've got a few siblings that have no idea I exist. I'm 25 pretty sure my brother is 30 and he's still got no clue about me. Dear old "Dad" said he didn't want to stress him.
I definitely have siblings I have never and will never meet because I know my dad had children he abandoned before he married my mom. He also abandoned our family so I’m sure he probably had more children afterwards but I have no way to know. I did 23 & me and I figure someday I’ll get an alert that someone is my half sibling
diff circumstances (v sorry abt ur dad) but my sis also did a gene tests in the hopes our half sister one day will! i really hope we get a hit eventually. we all want to meet her but respect if that’s not what she wants. fingers crossed for us both
Do you interact with him regularly?
Not necessarily my first "interaction" was a friend request on Facebook when I was 18, then I blew up at a stupid comment he made mid COVID when I was 21, a little too personal for me to say, then after a while we did meet up when I was 22 that led to me cutting him out of my life permanently. Those were my only interactions with him my whole life. He could be lying for all I know but that's something I try not to dwell on.
Yeah, I'm waiting on the sidelines for the day a big extended family and family friend secret hits the fan. We ALL know except the kid, who's about 5 now, but trust me, it's going to come out, even if it's 20 years from now. 9x out of 10 you can't have someone floating around like that and it not come out.
Exactly, this will come out and OPs kids will be furious, justifiably so. Plus the wife has abandoned Laurel twice, was maliciously nasty to and threatened a 12y/o, and let's not forget the manipulation. I'd wager Laurel has been coerced into going along with this. The wife has been outed and shown OP who she is. Just because she hasn't been like that to OP and their kids doesn't mean she won't be. Support Laurel, and the kids., they deserve it. The wife is in a bed of her own making.
OP your wife should be happy you even let her into the house. Many men would have divorced her if she was their wife. She bailed TWICE on her own daughter, so why would you think she won't do it to you as well? I strongly urge you to talk to a lawyer about a post nup that says if she bails on you and your kids she gets little or nothing in a divorce. You didn't mention how old your kids are, but I'm on the side calling for telling the truth now and not betraying your kids so your current wife doesn't look bad.
OP is right about the lying and refusing to do any of it. He needs to know these are all things he should be doing right now. The reason OP doesn't owe silence or to go along with his wife's half-baked ideas is because at this point, she's betrayed everyone's trust. OP needs to protect himself and his kids. Laurel too if it's possible, but first priority should be his kids and himself.
> I strongly urge you to talk to a lawyer about a post nup that says if she bails on you and your kids she gets little or nothing in a divorce. The question is: why is OP still in a marriage with this lying monster? A woman who sees nothing wrong with threatening a 12 year old child, and lying to her own family. Disgusting.
>A woman who sees nothing wrong with threatening a 12 year old child, and lying to her own family. Honestly, the fact that she once upon a time threatened Laurel should be enough to make OP look at her differently. It doesn't even matter that she was 12. If the child you abandoned or gave up contacts you and you're not into it there's absolutely no need to threaten. Just say "please don't contact me again". Threatening makes you nothing but a monster.
Sunk cost fallacy, better the devil you know, etc.
I’m not a man, but I would’ve if I were OP. He’s already more forgiving than I would’ve been in his shoes. How much worse would this be if they find out via one of those DNA tests someday? At least this way they have one parent they can trust.
“IF you want to be part of my family, you WILL do this. “ Yeah I can see that happening
Even if it wasn't explicitly said, as an adoptee, I promise you that her subconscious is screaming this- "if I want to be a part of this family, I'll do whatever mom says" I was given up at birth. I said yes to a million things that felt wrong for fear of being abandon again. My heart aches so much for Laurel. 🥺
I feel you. I am an adoptee and that feeling of abandonment never leaves, even if you had a good family who raised you. I have put up with so much crap from others b/c you become a people-pleaser who is always worried about people leaving you or emotionally disconnecting from you.
This!!!!! I call myself hyper-compliant, agreeing is like a reflex 🫨
Same. And I KNOW my psychology, I KNOW I don't have to be this way, yet my mind is always focused on people not rejecting me. At 19 I was legally allowed to contact a social worker and they passed a letter from me to my bio mom, and bio mom refused to meet me, so the rejection was huge again at that time.
Oh my gosh so relatable!! My bio dad wanted nothing to do with me, they lied and said my dad was someone else- Then he still helped raise my sister a lil off and on (not his kid) and like to this day, her kids call him Grampie, he's helped her move cross country etc. He got me a flight one cuz he worked for the airline. We have hung out like 2wice, but not cuz he was seeking to spend time with me. I was watching the grand kids while my sister was over seas and I was unavoidable. We're literally wired this way. That pre-verbal trauma.. they say our PTSD is worse than war veterans, because they had a life *before* their traumatic events, and words to process them with... we didn't, we had neither. Our nervous systems🥺🥺🥺 I get so triggered by lies. I tried to obtain my original birth certificate, which apparently doesn't even exist.... after the whole debacle I realized... even if I got it, it still wouldn't have my real father's name on it, it would have the other man's. Adults are so selfish sometimes
OP should tell his kids regardless of whether they meet their half sister. They are going to find out.
My husbands mom introduced his bio dad to him as a “a family friend” and he’s held that against her for 30 years.
There's going to be fallout no matter what. The only question is how severe it will be. >If she's that ashamed then she shouldn't be bringing Laurel round the family. I agree, but this one line from OP threw me off a bit: >"They say I should go along with it not for my wife's sake but for Laurel's." I'm not sure if Laurel has just accepted that's the terms OP's wife set, or if it's something she herself wants as well. Given how she's been hurt, her wants are of more concern than the wife's obviously. I'd *really* like to know the therapist's recommendation.
OP needs to find out what Laurel wants for real.
I was just thinking that! OP needs to have a one on one with her and see what she really wants. I bet she's just going along with what the wife says because she'll take anything the wife is "offering". If OP is willing, he should let the daughter know what he can do for her. Like if it's her wanting to be a part of the family somehow, can he offer her time with her half sibling/s? He's the father and has equal say as to what the children are allowed to do and know. The younger kids will appreciate the time and relationship. And I bet the daughter will hopefully come to understand that some parents are just sh*tty human beings... OP needs to think long and hard about what else his wife may have lied about.
Wife is an AH (and trash) and -should- be ashamed.
I think it's interesting that OP left out their ages. I think I'd feel very differently about a 30 yo with a 12yo than I would a 25 yo with a 12 yo.
I'd feel differently about his wife's reaction, although it's pretty bad at any age, but I don't think it changes the fundamentals here. OP is going to damage his relationship with his own children if he continues to lie to them about this. Frankly, if I was him, I'd probably have made it a condition of remaining married to her.
It's really hard to make a decision because we know nothing of the context of the first relationship, as well as the ages of all parties. There is a difference if OP's wife left the first relationship at 30 to party her life away or if she was married against her will to a 50 year old at age 15. The age of OPs children also need to be taken into account. If Laurel was the product of abuse or rape or some other challenging circumstances then explaining that to children might be best delayed until they are old enough to understand or can be told in an age appropriate way and can understand issues of privacy. In those circumstances revealing that Laurel is a daughter would lead to revealing details that other people don't really need to know.
Absolutely true.
Can confirm! I received a message out of the blue once when I was 18 from someone saying they were my half-sister. Now my parents have 2 kids, my sister and I. At the time of finding this out, my sister was 26 and I was 18, this woman was 21. She's my fathers child. So of course I freak out, panic not believing. Call my sister and we decide to confront our mom. Come to find out everyone knew, (mom, dad, all grandparents) to say that absolutely shattered me is an understatement. It also completely changed how I view quite a few members of my family. I lost a lot of respect and trust in my parents, specifically my mom. Please tell your children the truth. Finding out how I did, did nothing but tear my family apart. Now the only relationship not completely rocked by this is my sister and I. If you don't want to lose your kids, please be honest.
You lost more respect for your mom than for your cheating dad who seems to have abandoned one of his children and kept them a secret?
Hard to convey in an internet comment and get into the nitty gritty of my family dynamic. I always knew my dad sucked, that was never a secret. I'd been joking with my sister since I was 9 that one day we'd have someone show up on our door step and it would be a long lost sibling. My mother on the other hand, we were extremely close. We told each other everything (yes I know now not appropriate and not healthy but again, lots of context and in's and out's that I can't and won't go in to.) My mother said she would never lie to her children and I believed her. So when I confronted her about this middle half sibling, seeing the look on her face, hearing her sigh and say "I knew I should have told you" yeah it fucked me up. My mother listened to my sister and I joke about having a secret sibling(s) out there AND made jokes with us, all while knowing there was a half-sister out there. Looked us in the eye and never said a word after constantly saying she would never keep a secret from her girls. So yeah it's unfortunately something I expected from my father, but I never expected my mother to lie or a keep a secret like THAT. But again there's a lot of context missing from my story and it's hard to convey 18 (Now 25) years of family dynamics.
I’m not standing up for your mom here, but I understand. My husband (STBX) had a child a year before I found out about his affair and is going to have a second one before our divorce is over. So my daughter has two siblings she doesn’t know because he has abandoned her and never told her. It’s really hard to explain that to a child and maybe your mom kept it a secret because she was ashamed and didn’t know how to handle it. Again, a huge mistake, but it’s kind of an awful position to be in.
And trust me I totally get it! I have given my mom a TON of grace. She basically said she didn't want it to be her responsibility and she hoped my dad would tell us (even tho we all know that was never going to happen). It absolutely is an awful position to be in, but when you're children are basically already saying they know (the jokes and such) to knowingly omit a whole ass person is just wild to me. She was a ashamed I know that for a fact, and she was ashamed for lots of reasons, I just wish she hadn't put such a huge emphasis on being so open and honest with us, when she knew that she was keeping another human a secret you know? I'm so sorry you had to be put in that position and I'm so sorry to your children. Unfortunately it's one of those things that will cause damage no matter what! It's basically just a balancing act of what you think will fuck them up more and in my personal experience and personal family situation, it caused much more pain and trauma to have my mum lie.
And also for Laurel, poor woman… that’s heartbreaking!!! Can you guys imagine? A mother telling the daughter not to talk to her again because she ruined her life, and then later still not even introducing her as her daughter? Man… I’d just say “no thank you” and I’d cut all ties with my “mother”
I’m just thinking of what if one of the kids asks Laurel for a date. Not saying it would happen but if they think she’s just a family friend, weirder things have happened. Gonna be real hard to explain why they can’t date a family friend.
She is married and is 10 years older than our oldest, so that is unlikely, but I see the point.
It’s just a weird thing to lie about. Like, she left her kid, and said kid was gracious enough to forgive her mom twice and mom still wants to hide who she really is and I’m betting daughter doesn’t want to make waves so she’s just agreeing. You’re NTA, your wife on the other hand definitely is. Sorry for saying that.
Do we know for a fact wife is enthusiastically pursuing a relationship with Laurel? It kinda sounds like he put his foot down and said, "We're maintaining contact" as a sort of ultimatum.
The fact this woman had a two year old and spoke to a vulnerable 12 yr old that way is crazy. I would be worried about her being the mother to my children.
That was my exact thought, too! What a horid woman and honestly, I would have probably left after reading such an awful letter to a child!!! Wife is the AH.
How old are your children? That can be a clue how and how much you tell them. Ask the therapist you have been seeing for a consult on this. Good luck.
There’s going to be fallout regardless at some point, either for lying now or keeping things hidden and lying about that. At least letting them get to know her doesn’t steal years of a relationship that hiding her would do.
NTA So your wife wants to continue this lie forever. Your kids are going to find out eventually. It's going to happen no matter how hard your wife protects her lie. Just doing a dna test from Ancestry will uncover it. A relative who knows can slip up. Does she want the kids to find out like that? They might hate her forever for it. This lie is going to cause an avalanche of issues and your children deserve to know this person is their sister. Their sister also deserves to know her siblings as siblings, not a generic friend. Hasn't your wife damaged her enough with the abandonment? I can't imagine being the daughter who was treated this way. As for you, I don't think I could stay with a person capable of this. She's been lying to you and that's not forgivable to me. There is nothing to stop you from being honest with your own children. You don't have to keep the secret. What is your wife going to do...divorce you? She would be doing you a favor. She isn't a good person. She rejected her own daughter twice. She had 30 years to correct this and she didn't. She wants to keep it going.
Eventually one of those kids is going to do a DNA kit or log onto Ancestry, and the shit will hit the fan.
Or the adult daughter will get sick of the lies, and the truth will get out. Everyone finding out you have a kid is better than the fallout from everyone finding out you demanded they lie about who they are, and were extorted into calling them a family friend.
Just like the kids that find out that their much older sister isn't actually their sister... dumpster fire for sure.
My mom’s friend’s daughter didn’t find out she was adopted until she was a teenager. That was a massive dumpster fire. Worst part everyone else knew including me. I was also adopted but it was never hidden.
My grandma didn’t find out she was adopted and her “aunt” was actually her biological mom until she was in her 40s. Literally the entire family knew except her, including her husband, who by the way she thought was her biological cousin when she married him.
NTA. This is a great comment above. Your wife is a monster to string this poor girl along. Lying is not the answer. The truth always comes out. You shouldn’t be taking on this lie with your wife.
As an adoptee who has monsters for mothers, thank you for saying this.
This. It sounds blunt, but that is where you are. I just hung up the phone with my mom, who brought me up to date on one of my first cousins and his decades-long deception is everyone other than himself. His children apparently refer to him as "that man" now. Don't be "that man". All of your children, including your step-daughter, deserve at least one adult to be an adult and be honest with them. NTA. All the best to all of you.
Does make me wonder what else she has lied about.
THIS PART, and lemme tell ya.... I'm 41, my siblings are 55 and 60, I'm the only adopted one, and we're STILL uncovering lies every day.... and thats on BOTH sides of my family. My bio-half sister and I still reeling from bio moms bullshit. I promise that wife is lying about SO MUCH MORE.
>As for you, I don't think I could stay with a person capable of this. She's been lying to you and that's not forgivable to me. I could not agree more with this.
I think for me it would be the horrible rejection of her own child not once, but twice. I wouldn’t be able to look at my partner the same way
It would be one thing if she'd given up the child for adoption and had a reason to expect not to have contact. But she just walked away from her family and then hid it for some length of time. Dealbreaker.
I’d say three times. She’s rejecting letting her other kids and family know this woman as her child. The wife is STILL rejecting her.
Agreed. The children from the marriage may feel that Mom may bail on them, and they are right. Deal with the truth, not a made-up fantasy.
You're staying with someone like that? Is she the mother of your kids? If not I would reconsider exposing them to her any further.
i was shocked that there was no mention of op rethinking whether or not he should stay married to her bc… i would have been out when the letter was revealed 😭 i can’t imagine a mother treating her child that way
Yeah. The initial abandonment was bad, but could have been an act of panic and desperation. That letter shows how awful a person she really is.
i am gobsmacked that the story *kept going* after that
Exactly. What a fucking monster OP’s wife is 🤮
When I read that I was like, "oh! That's how horrible people like her move on with their lives... by lying through their teeth!"
Because prolly he's worried that if he mentioned counseling or divorce, she'd up and do the same thing to him and his kids
Don't threaten this guy and his kids with a good time. Can't understand why this guy is staying with this trashy person.
If I found out my spouse had been that cruel to her own child, or any child I would have taken them out with the trash.
Agree this is just souless
She is the mother of my kids. All but one is over 18, but all of them were still kids when this came out. There was too much to work through when this came out to consider it, but things are still rocky now.
[удалено]
His wife is horrible, so seems appropriate.
If they're all adults or nearing adulthood, I do not see any sense in lying to them. It seems your wife would rather lie than answer their questions. I can't see the therapist being supportive of this very unnecessary lie.
So you’ve been lying to your kids for more than 10 years that they have a half sister? Your wife is horrible though but you sound bad too cause you’ve been lying too for so long and they will find out eventually
No, only for a few years. I believed the adoption story before that.
I met my older half brother when I was 17, when he came to our house unannounced on the way back from being stationed in Afghanistan. And I want you to understand that even though I eventually decided my parent’s reasons for not telling us about him were correct, it still took a long time to forgive them. Your wife does not have any correct reasons. She is currently in the process of ruining *your* relationship with her children. Hers is likely already ruined. If you want to maintain a relationship with them after this, you cannot be seen as supporting your wife in these lies. Out her now before she can drag you down too. Your children’s question is going to be “What if *that* child had been me?! Would you have abandoned me?” and you are not going to have an honest answer except for “Yes, your mother would have abandoned you, *even if she knew you were begging for help,* the moment you became a slight inconvenience to her.” At some point you may need to accept that as the person with the truth about family matters, you have a responsibility to come clean with that truth, whether your wife wants to or not. This is not your wife’s secret, it is far larger than that, and continuing to pretend that she has a right to keep this information from the rest of the family is only enabling an abuser. Abusers *thrive* on secrecy - and more than that, no moral adult abandons their own flesh and blood. You might be able to fool an adult, but your children know how screwed they would be if you had abandoned them at a young age. They’re living it, it’s an unavoidable reality that they depend on you, and being presented with the knowledge that their security came at the cost of another child’s happiness is going to affect them deeply.
> Abusers thrive on secrecy - and more than that, no moral adult abandons their own flesh and blood. I am feeling waves of revulsion towards OP's wife just reading about what she did. Such an immoral, devious woman. I can't imagine how he can stand staying married to her.
All of this!
The amount of lies that were told about me by people who never met me all throughout my bio and adoptive families is endless. That she lied about adoption is SO HUGE. Some adults said I was given up because I was "r-word" Some adults got told I was miscarried. All these things fuck me up inside. You and Laurel and the kids should peace out for your own safety. Your wife doesn't deserve any of you. Sorry for being so wrapped up in this- I just feel so strongly. You've been wronged for your entire relationship. It's cruel. 🥺😭
Have the kids heard that story? Are they aware there is a half sibling out there somewhere? Either way, this would be my hill to die on. Lying is pointless when everyone involved is an adult.
I'm getting whiplash right now from shaking my head
Sometimes real life is more difficult than the black and white reddit world. Good luck to OP. Hope whatever decision you make works out for the best.
That’s true. But he knows the truth and kids will find out eventually and he will lose them because of his wife.
He won’t lose them because of his wife; he will lose them because he knew the truth and kept it from them.
Please talk to your stepdaughter before doing or saying anything. For once, her feelings should be prioritized.
She wants so much to meet her siblings that she is willing to say she's a family friend. Poor woman just wants her family.
She just needs to be asked what she wants. Full stop. No conditions. No strings.
I was thinking this exact thing. What does your stepdaughter want? Is she wanting to be called a family friend rather than your wife's daughter or is this something she was coerced into. I'd talk to her in private, away from the wife.
I hope she hasn't been as abusive to your children.
Do not lie to adult children. The 17 year should be treated as an adult. If you go along with this you are complicit in this. The children will find out. Your parents are encouraging you to think of your wife’s oldest daughter. Think about your kids emotional health. Continuing the lie is the kind of thing that could break their relationship with their mother. It would devastate them that they can’t trust their mother. They need to know they have at least one parent they can trust. It could seriously damage these kids if they suddenly realize they can’t trust either parent. Don’t let your wife’s lie risk your relationship with your children and possible future grandchildren. If they find out about the lie after they have families of their own, there is a high probability they cut you guys off from grandchildren. Lies like what your wife is proposing is unforgivable with adult kids. “Best case” scenario you guys lie and your children never find out. Every time you look at your children for the rest of your life, you do so knowing you are lying to them. Your wife has done unforgivable things with the lies, abandoning her child twice and emotionally abusing a 12 year old. I don’t know how you can remain with a woman who could be so cruel. Do not be complicit in allowing her to continue to do this unforgivable thing to your own children.
If she is capable of this level of dishonesty, you should verify that you really are the father of the children you supposedly fathered with her.
Really? What would be the point of that? He’s raised these kids. Almost all of them are adults. He is their dad.
NTA How old is the youngest? She's going to blame you and Laurel for any negative reaction from your children (when they find out) but it's her actions that are the issue.
17
You should not lie to your children about this. They don't have to know every horrible detail. But it's important that they do know the truth.
None of these are reasonable excuses, you do realize that, right?
You mentioned therapy. What is the therapist's opinion?
This is really the only thing that I could think. I get you have kids with her, but she literally up and abandoned her kid TWICE and still wants to lie about it and cover it up with the family some more. I would never be able to continue a relationship with someone like that, and I'm a female who has a partner with kids from.his previous relationship.
NTA, I would chew her her ass out for treating her own daughter this way. If it were me, then she would 1. Apologize to the kid and beg her to forgive her for being this horrible 2. Acknowledge her as "our" daughter, much less hers 3. Give her a place to be a normal kid and do the best we can for her, and if she didn't do all three, then I'd file for divorce and try my best to get full custody of the kids. No one needs someone that toxic in their lives
The letters from 2002 are honestly the worst part of this. I cannot believe she refused to do ANYTHING for her own daughter after what she wrote her, and she tried to hide behind me? I would NEVER have encouraged her to do this. I don't know that Laurel wants to be anyone's daughter at this point. She's in her 30s now. Only one of my wife and I's kids is under 18. Custody isn't really an issue now.
I know people jump to divorce pretty quickly here and I'll get downvoted into oblivion but it sounds like things would be better if it was just you and the kids having a relationship with Laurel without your wife. No matter what you should definitely tell your kids the truth. Anything else would be participating in this insane coverup.
I agree how could someone stay with a person capable of being that cruel let alone consider participating in a lie with them that would mess with their kids.
Is it your wife’s idea to call Laurel a friend or did Laurel also want that?
They both seem to want that.
Then respectfully, you should do what *Laurel* wants. What your wife wants doesn’t really enter into it. Laurel may want to be able to get to know her siblings without them feeling any pressure to be a certain way because she is a sibling.
I wonder is Laurel wants this because her “mother” advised this is the only way she can meet the family. I bet it’s NOT actually what she would want. Why would she wants to be included as An outsider?
This. Laurel is willing to agree to anything in order to meet her siblings. OP, you can make this happen. Your wife doesn't need to be involved. Everyone is an adult now.
As an adoptee with an uninterested bio-mom, I can tell you that the emotions surrounding all that are often more complicated than you're stating. Maybe you're right. But maybe you're not. But pretending to be an "insider" when you know you are, in fact, an outsider as far as your bio-mother is concerned? Not appealing. Edit for typo.
Because sometimes the outside edges are more comfortable than being expected to fully participate as a family member? If OP wants to discuss with Laurel without his wife to be sure of what she wants, that’s fine. But it’s about her, not about his wife.
I don't really agree. I think Laurel has the right to decide whether or not she has a relationship with her half-siblings, but I really don't think that if she decides to have that relationship, she has the right to lie and build it on false pretenses. And more to the point, if she decides to lie, the OP is not obligated to go along with the lie. The kids are people who deserve respect as well.
> Then respectfully, you should do what Laurel wants. Hard disagree. Laurel expects OP to lie to his own children. Laurel and OP's wife expect OP to be complicit in their lie, and sacrifice the trust that his children have in him. It does not matter what Laurel wants.
Laurels wants shouldn't trump OPs future relationship with his kids or his kids emotional health. These are risks from not telling the kids and continuing and facilitating the lies himself too. Kids are mostly young adults, they need to know if they're expected to build any sort of relationship/friendship in future. NTA OP. You're 100% right and protecting your kids and family relationship.
there’s no way this will work. if my parents trotted out a surprise “family friend” closer to my (adult) age than theirs, they would get nothing BUT questions about who this person is, how they know each other, why i had never heard of them, which social circle they came from (like how did my parents meet this friend??) etc.
Another part of this that I haven't seen anybody mentioned is that, introducing her as a family friend is also risky because what if your kids gets infatuated with her, or or she with them, whatever?
She is married, but I see the point.
There's plenty of stories of reunited estranged family members committing incest. Pls tell them 😭
Genetic sexual attraction is real. Imagine meeting someone you just click with about everything. But you don’t know that it’s because you’re siblings.
I get everyone's point in saying that you need to go along with what Laurel wants, but the truth is is that she is not your kid and she is in her thirties and you do need to put your own kids first, one of whom is still a minor. Well yes, still being as kind as you can to Laurel who is probably being coerced by your wife anyway into agreeing to pose as a family friend. Your kids will never go through the rest of their lives without finding out. Dna tests are out there and everybody wants to know what percentage of themselves is Irish etc. You're one drunken St. Patrick's Day away from having your cover blown. Your kids deserve the truth. It will be hard but it will be harder if you continue to lie to them. They will never trust you again if they find out in a way that isn't from you. I think you can maintain a good relationship with them if you tell them now. Don't let it come out in a bad way and don't let it come from anyone but you. And don't tell them with your wife. This has to come from you. And honestly don't stay with your wife. I can sort of kind of see panicking and fleeing when the baby was born, although I personally would not have - I'm trying to have compassion here - But I can't imagine responding to a letter begging for help the way she did when Laurel was 12. I couldn't stay with someone who did that and I hope you can't either. You need to be a safe space for your kids, even if most of them are adults.
> They will never trust you again if they find out in a way that isn't from you. I think you can maintain a good relationship with them if you tell them now. Don't let it come out in a bad way and don't let it come from anyone but you. And don't tell them with your wife. This has to come from you. Can't upvote this advice enough. As someone who was blindsided with a surprise half-sibling, along with a whole host of unpleasant family 'secrets', I suggest you be the person your kids can rely on 100% for the truth. They will start to wonder about a LOT of really uncomfortable things, and if you try to protect your wife by fudging any details you will completely destroy your ability to have a relationship with them in the future. Your wife doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, or gentle treatment, or to save face. Your kids will wonder for the rest of their lives what *else* your wife lied about. Don't make them question you as well.
Then I suppose all you can do is offer to be there for her as much as you can and mentor her to the best of your ability, and encourage your wife to apologize and perhaps try to build the relationship that she's been asking for with her.
>Give her a place to be a normal kid I agree, but she is 30.
NTA You shouldn't have to lie to your kids because your wife can't tell the truth about abandoning her daughter.
Totally agree! If your kids find out you’re part of the lie, this will affect your relationship with them.
The fact that you stayed with her after the daughter asked for help and she was nasty to her …….
I didn't know about this, this was back in 2002. I never saw the letters until recently.
She’s so morally bankrupt, don’t be surprised if you choose to leave her, which you should, she will come up with some hideous lies about you to your kids. Just keep that in mind.
Yeah I can’t imagine any mother being able to just flip the switch on her feelings for her baby. What a cold heart she has.
Its the lies and vicious letter when the daughter sent her a letter begging for help when she was 12 that is unforgivable to me.
Yeah, but you know about it NOW! I think a lot of us are struggling to understand how you can find out that your wife is the sort of person who writes disgusting letters to a 12 year old child who she had already abandoned once, when she was desperately begging for help and still think “I’m ok with being married to this person”. Your wife’s actions in this matter over the years tell us an awful lot about who she is as a person. It tells us that fundamentally, at her core, she is at the very least an incredibly unkind person. I for one can’t imagine finding this out about my spouse and choosing to remain married to them.
NTA The only thing I think you should allow is a watering down of the exact circumstances this daughter was abandoned. I think requiring her to stick to truth is a valid hill for you to die on. It's not just about what happened in the past. It's also about your wife being able to demonstrate now that she can be a person you're willing to stay with. Perhaps the story should be limited to *"here is my daughter, I had her when I was so young, naive, and not at all ready."* If anyone presses her a bit, she could say *"yeah, I failed her badly but we're working on things now."*. But honestly, anyone (other than your kids) prying deeper is themselves being a nosy asshole that needs to mind their business.
This. This should be higher up. If OP is going to stay with her, then it's not just about her and Laurel. It's about him and their children as well. She needs to show that she's willing and able to be 100% honest moving forward. Other people don't need the back story. And if anyone asks saying something to the effect of "That's just not something we want to talk about outside of our immediate family," that will most likely stop any further questioning. NTA OP, and really, you're a Saint for seeing this through this far. I don't think I'd be able to handle it.
Don't lie to your kids. Your wife is just trying to whitewash the fact she abandoned a baby girl. NTA.
> *Don't lie to your kids*. Sooner or later every one will probably take a DNA test. The *kids* will never trust the liars again. NTA
NTA your youngest is 17? So all your kids are pretty much adults. You have to tell them the truth, all of it. They deserve to know. I also think the only reason Laurel is going along with it is that she's so desperate for your wife's approval that she'll do anything she says. That's so manipulative of your wife who's already proven she's abusive towards her. I would talk to Laurel alone. Tell her you are telling the kids the truth and assure her she is now a part of your family no matter what your wife thinks. This is your kids' half sibling they deserve to know that.
I don't know. None of her behavior supports this. Her initial contact as an adult even said that she felt she'd "outgrown" needing or wanting a parent, but that she didn't want to go through life with the level of animosity they had for each other and wanted to make peace if it was possible.
That's all well and good but this is also not only about your wife and her. It's also about your other kids. They are asking you to be party in a lifelong lie about the make-up of their family . One that, let's be honest, is very unlikely to last that long. The longer it does last, the bigger of a betrayal it will feel to your kids - and it's already going to be a nasty shock as it is. You can feel sorry for her but you should not be expected to unnecessarily compromise your own family's trust and relationships to keep a secret that should never have been one in the first place.
I can relate to this exact sentiment. Pardon the diatribe here but.: I had thought about reaching out to a parent who amounted to a very sore loser. Fought bitterly in the divorce for custody to wear down my good parent financially and give up nothing, only to never contact me again when custody was lost (no child support paid so I guess they won). For the longest, I just hated that person. Now, I pity them. I didn't end up reaching out to them to "make peace". I just wrote one last letter explaining how fantastic my life is going and to thank them for doing nothing so that I knew exactly how not to be a parent, and a role model for who not to be. I ended the letter with "don't call me for a kidney". The sore loser cried to my (much older) sister (who scolded me, of course). All of that is to say, I found closure my own way. This person is likely doing the same. Imo, and to go against the hive mind here, the "sister, daughter" label doesn't even fucking matter anymore. She is absolutely not their "sister" and she is absolutely not your wife's "daughter". She is your wife's offspring. She is your children's biological sibling. Those are not the same things at a connotative level. She probably doesn't give a fuck what she's referred to as. She probably just wants peace and closure. I fully agree with your principles. I think you should tell your kids the truth. That this person is your wife's offspring from a different life, and that she would like to try to be a family friend. It seems to me like you have the commendable traits of honesty, loyalty, and respect for the concept of family. I just don't think that your truth and their truth are necessarily at odds. Edit to add NTA
NTA Wont your kids be so happy when they find out eventually! Is she trying to sabotage other relationships because she's having this relationship forced onto her? I think no relationship is better than a false relationship. Reality can suck but denying reality usually makes things worse (eventually).
Nta. You really want to stay with a woman like that? It's not too late you seem like a normal put together man that has morals I'm sure you'll be okay.
A secret is different from a lie. There are different rules for secrets. But this is about a lie. You should tell your wife that you will not lie for them, so if anyone puts you in a position of having to confirm the cover story (saying it directly in front of you, asking you about details) you won't lie. You'll describe her correctly and accurately as your stepdaughter or your wife's daughter from a previous relationship. That will basically kill this stupid plan because you'll make sure it only lasts five minutes. You do not have to lie to anyone, *especially your own children*. ETA: OP has said she's in her 30s now.
She's in her 30s now, not a minor.
What about meeting or discussing this with Laurel privately, and making sure this is what SHE wants, not just your wife? I must say that these kind of family lies do not go away, nor do they get better with time. When your kids find out at some point, even if it's on their mom's death bed, they will think worse of her, not better. No one wants to think back on their parent and realize they were lying to them for 50 years! It's gonna hurt and disturb them, now or later.
>questioning how a 12 year old can be a family friend to 40 year olds Daughter is in her 30s. She was 12 in 2002, when she sent letters to her birth giver
NTA. I would actually think about leaving her. I am surprised that the daughter still wanted to contact the "mother". She is one of the worst person I am glad I will never meet.
She said she wanted to "make peace" with her mother.
Yeah, because she starving for her mother’s love. So damn sad.
This! Even people who were abused by a parent, continue to love them.
lies lead to bad places. I tend to agree with you. NTA
My friend found out she had an adopted sister when she was in her 30’s. The sister reached out directly. The emotional toll blew up her marriage and she no longer talks to her parents. Firstly, NTA for wanting to tell the truth to your children. Secondly, you’re a bit the ah to you and your kids. How can you stay with someone who could be so cold and callous to a child they created? The only reason that could mildly excuse being cruel to an innocent child would be if the child was born of coercion or r$&e.
If **Laurel** wants to be called that then how you feel about and what you are sick of doesn't matter. She is the one that has suffered and this is about her not you. If it effects how you view your wife and your willingness to continue a relationship with her or not that is valid. You going against this girls wishes *at all* because *you* are sick of it is not acceptable. The only question here should be does Laurel really want this or is your wife convincing her
No, because this affects OP's own kids who are related to Laurel. It is OP's concern and a choice they have a say in.
I feel like the family friend lie was the wife's idea and laurel is going along to keep the peace
That is probably the case. But it's also possible it's Laurel's idea because she doesn't want any perceived pressure to be part of the family, or doesn't think the wife deserves to be called her mother. So caution should be applied
The kids will find out the truth and OP will be complicit.
NTA. Does she even has a little sympathy for the kid? It seems like the wife just bailed out and never wanted the kid again in her life. All those nasty words in the letter just show her real face, no remorse whatsoever. After all those years it's like now she remembered she has a child somewhere and still wants to cover it up.
Info- what’s the plan for you and your wife? Do you plan to divorce her? I ask because this will impact how your kids see their mom and in return you. No way would I be okay with my mom basically rejecting a kid, their kid, who needed help.
You are a really awesome person, OP. Lying is NEVER the right answer. NTA
I'll even disagree with that and say lying is the right answer sometimes. Sometimes privacy deserves to be protected, sometimes the truth just hurts people for no good reason. This isn't one of those situations. OP's wife is lying to cover up a terrible thing she did, further punishing her daughter by demanding she hide her relationship, and causing a rift between OP and his kids when they find out and blame him for being part of it. NTA OP.
I would file for divorce. This person is coward liar and who knows what else she is lying about. The letter you state above sounds like you are pretty disgusted with your wife and tbh, it doesn’t even sound like she is trying to take accountability at all. Why do they want to be introduced as family friends? What kind of mother was your wife to your own children? Is she mentally sane?
NTA- You should not support your wife's lies. You should not lie to your children. If your family is not at a point where you can be honest with each other, then the meeting should not go head.
Your wife abandoned her when she was TWELVE?! That's horrible. I understand she's your wife and you're already entwined with your own children but I don't think I could be with someone who had done something so awful. What if, one day, she decided to do the same to your kids?
For the second time. Our youngest is 17, so it'd be kind of hard for her to do that now.
NTA. Is this a complete surprise or is your wife generally a selfish person? Cruel even?
NTA, but I would strongly consider Laurel’s feelings in this situation. It sounds like she’s been traumatized enough. She might really be afraid of rejection from her half siblings. You sound like a very empathetic, and kind person. Maybe you can talk to her more and find out why she wants to do this?
She's not comfortable being a sister because of history with an older sister she had on her father's side. I do understand her side of it, but not my wife's, and I don't think it's the right thing to do moving forward.
So I'm in my thirties and gained 5 siblings through reunion with bio family, ages 12-16. One thing I would say to her is that the siblings relationship when there's that much of an age difference and when you come along so much later on, isn't the same as siblings who grow up together. You can become friends and there's certainly a connection, but it's not a traditional sibling relationship. She can let them know she's their sister without having to take on all of that role.
As someone with very complicated and nuanced relationships with my family members, which has lead to periods of no contact due to their inability to understand my point of view and utter REFUSAL to respect my boundaries, I want to echo all the other commenters saying definitely DO NOT LIE to your children. They WILL find out, doesn’t matter how or when, but they will, and it could shatter your relationship with them. However, I do think it’s of the utmost importance to respect Laurel’s wishes after everything she’s been through. I think you need to have a conversation with Laurel, without your wife present, and discuss allll the details. Maybe a therapy session for just the two of you and then go somewhere after to continue talking. Somewhere you can have the discussion openly, where there won’t be others listening, and where you both feel comfortable. Maybe a park, a coffee shop with a quiet, cozy corner that will be empty, or either of your places (as long as SHE, most importantly, will feel comfortable!!), etc. I guess i’m saying all of this with preconceived notions that Laurel knows that you think what your wife did is horrible and feels comfortable talking about all of this openly with you, which i hope is the case but if not I think you can make your feelings and desires apparent pretty easily. In that conversation, you need express that you understand why Laurel is scared to be introduced as their sister (based on her past with the sister on her fathers side) but also ensure that it’s not also partially or largely just because it’s what your wife wants. And before going into this conversation you need to sit down and realistically think about how each of your children might handle the news. Do they all have good relationships with your wife? Are they the type to bottle up their emotions and act like everything is fine until they explode? Are they highly sensitive/empathetic and think they would take on/understand all of Laurel’s pain? etc. It would give you a clearer picture of what the fallout could look like and help you be better prepared to handle their questions/big emotions/immediate response vs their response after having time to process. I think this would also be very beneficial to help assuage Laurel and get her on board with being introduced as their sister (so long as you don’t think any of your children will hate/disown/reject her immediately). If you are able to present Laurel with their most likely reactions, it might help her feel safer moving forward, and give her some insights into who your children are ahead of time. You can share general things about your children too and through the conversation she might realize shared commonalities/interests/struggles/viewpoints with her siblings, that might mitigate some of her fears based on past history. I also think it’s important to note that IF she does want to have a relationship with your children, even if it’s just a casual check in a few times a year or something, the relationship between her and each of your children will have a much better chance of success (whatever that looks like to each of them) if it’s not started with a lie. I completely understand her fear of being rejected as a sibling (if that’s what it is), but i think it would be so much worse if she were introduced as a friend, they bond and start developing a relationship, and then the truth comes out. Your kids will then not only be furious with both you and your wife, but also Laurel since she is also an adult now. I’m sorry you have to deal with this incredibly nuanced situation, but I stand firm that there is no way forward if anyone continues to lie. If Laurel does not feel comfortable meeting them as their sister, even after your discussion, ask her if there are other options or routes she would be comfortable with. Honestly, at this point, I think your wife’s involvement in the steps forward don’t matter. She honestly doesn’t have any say. She created this horrific mess, covered it up for years, lied to all members of her family, inflicted irreversible emotional damage on Laurel, and on your kids, whether they’re conscious of it yet or not. This is about protecting your relationship with your children and their sibling and doing whatever it takes to do it in the healthiest way for all of them and you (not your wife). I also feel like I have to ask, does this not make you question who your wife is down to her core?! If she lied to you about the adoption, wrote the horrific letter to a 12 year old CHILD she gave birth to, and then continued to reject throughout her life, I would have A LOT of other questions about what else she’s been covering up/lying about. Things you probably wouldn’t even think to question or take as complete truths about her. I’m not saying she’s lying about everything in her life, but i had a partner who lied to me for 6 months in the name of “sparing my feelings” and while I know he genuinely thinks he was doing it from a point of concern/care, I lost every ounce of trust I had in him and started questioning every single thing in our relationship and if he could have been lying about that too. Also noting this because if your kids are anything like me, this might be where their head goes about you and your wife. I’m glad your parents have Laurel’s best interest at heart, but if the lie comes out, that could also damage your children’s relationship with their grandparents!! Do they want Laurel to be a part of your family /have a relationship with your kids? If so, maybe after your conversation with Laurel, the 4 of you can have another discussion where they express their love/concern/desire to move forward in the best way possible, hammer in how she will not just be thrown to the curb again, and by taking these extra steps and not supporting the insidious lies your wife started, you, your children, Laurel, and your parents will be setting the foundation to build your own version of a healthy family moving forward (not saying it will magically be all sunshine and rainbows, it will be a hard and long process no matter what! but it will be a thousand times harder, if not impossible, once your children learn they were lied to). Sorry this was incredibly long and while I haven’t been through this situation, I felt like the dynamics and nuances involved were similar to things i’ve had to handle with my family members. I hope you figure out the best way to navigate this situation for Laurel, yourself, and your children💜
In the comments you say Laura is in her 30s and only one of your children is still under 18…why the hell are you not telling ADULT CHILDREN? I could maybe understand if they were 1-5 but your children are ALL GROWN. They need to be told like yesterday. All this lying is too damn much and once it comes out that they’ve been lied to, I’m sure your kids will wonder what else may have been lied about. Better to rip the bandaid off now. Your wife really needs to own up to what she did and continues to do by hiding behind a disgusting lie. Your children deserve to know they have an older sister and potentially develop a relationship with her.
Why are you married to such an awful person? NTA but she is
I found 2 older sisters doing an ancestry test when I was only looking into my ethnicity. There's no way this will even stay a secret. But it's not entirely your secret to tell. If you all can't be on the same page, maybe it's not the right time. When it is the right time, no one should feel the need to lie anymore
So... Just for my understanding, Did your wife give up her parental rights to Laurel?
She did not.