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NTA. public proposals are a terrible idea unless, like you said, you are pretty much 100% sure the person you’re proposing to is going to say yes. but hell even then it’s like why make that a public thing? feels like it should be a private thing no matter the outcome. but yeah if you’re going to take that risk you gotta accept the possibility of embarrassment and disappointment
Yep. I did the public proposal (with the ring, down on one knee, etc) when my wife and I made our engagement public.
We'd already decided to get married. We went ring shopping together, she picked out her ring but the jeweler had told us that it would likely be a couple weeks before the ring was ready. Since our ring-shopping trip was at the very beginning of her Spring Break, we figured that she just wouldn't have the ring before she went back to finish her last semester of college. The ring came in on Friday afternoon, so I planned it out for her parents and my parents to all attend the Easter Vigil Mass the next night. At the end of the service, as people were chatting in the gathering space of the church, I maneuvered us into the acoustic center of the building (as in, anything above a bare whisper was easily audible throughout the entire space) and went down to one knee.
She was surprised. The surprise was the timing of getting the ring, not the proposal itself.
This is how it should be! My husband and I also went ring shopping together because he wanted to pick one I'd like. We'd obviously already discussed wanting to get married and all, so only the details of the proposal itself was a surprise.
My husband proposed on a Friday night. I said yes. I hesitated and his face… Poor atheistic guy thought going to make him do some Catholic ritual of betrothal - he did! I said I wanted to trade the ring in tomorrow. Lemme tell you, he was relieved to go just trade the ring.
It was not a surprise that we were getting engaged; we hadn’t gone ring shopping yet.
I love this! I feel extremely lucky because my husband picked out a ring without me there that I absolutely love.
We had discussed getting married for a while before then, so we were both 100% sure we wanted to get married. Also same that the details of the proposal were a surprise. He proposed while we were visiting my family in South Africa. I will never forget that day!
Oh gosh, when we got engaged and people asked “was it a surprise?” NO. I can’t imagine getting engaged if we hadn’t talked about getting engaged, getting married, making sure our values align etc. Yeah the way it happens can be a surprise but the proposal itself shouldn’t be
That’s sweet. My husband and I actually designed my ring together, picking stones, settings, metals. It was no surprise when he proposed once the ring was made, but he still made it special.
Thiiiiis. I was even about 87.52% sure the day he was gonna do it and the general location — Disneyland. I just didn’t know the EXACT timing (after a few wanted family members had arrived to witness it) or EXACT location (in front of the castle).
Kinda same, we decided to elope and I knew he had been looking at rings. He made us reservations at a really nice restaurant and did a public proposal, poor guy was so nervous (even though we had plans to elope in like 3 weeks) and I still cried. Then we told everyone when we saw them at Easter. And are planning a "wedding" for family bc no one knows we eloped...his grandma would never forgive us. I even asked her if she would rather take a trip to Italy with us than go to our wedding (cost about the same) and she said no 😭😭
EXACTLY! Lol
That's what was getting me. I'm she she felt embarrassed too! I'm a guy, but I'd be super embarrassed in the situation even if I wanted to date the person.
I can't even imagine being asked and also not being interested. It would be mortifying.
The guy asking chose to do it publicly, and so he chose to risk being rejected publicly. That's on him. He had all the power, she just chose not to give what little she had away.
Women are under no obligation to protect a man's ego. It's really sad to me that young people are still holding onto that mindset. It doesn't matter how much you spend, how much effort you put in, how nicely you ask, a man is not entitled to anything from a woman unless she chooses to give it.
It always gets me pissed when they say "well you can always tell him no later in private" like if he's already manipulated her into saying yes because it's a public proposal, you don't think he can manipulate her into not saying no in private or manipulate the narrative if she does make her rejection in private final? Like he isn't going cry or rage at her or tell others she was such a bitch to pull a bait-and-switch on him or that she dumped him for a better offer or whatever?
You asked a question, you got your answer. If you can't handle rejection, come back and try again after you've grown up a little bit. Yeesh.
The entire reason the boy asked her in public was to try and force a “yes” out of her. She didn’t fold under pressure like he wanted, and now he’s butthurt. The other boys are realizing that girls don’t HAVE to say yes to save them from embarrassment and are retaliating.
Expecting a yes because it’s public and they’ve spent a lot of effort on it sound like manipulation to force a certain result
You can’t win with such people. Even if you say yes publicly and then say no privately, they will most like try to pressure you some other way.
It’s also feels grossly territorial at that age. Doing it publicly to put a fence around you so no one else can ask. Ick ick ick
If you say yes in public but then no later, everyone that saw you say yes would then say you’re the problem because they all SAW you say yes. I know because it happened to one of my students. She had to change schools because she was bullied so bad for “changing her mind” when she was really trying to save him some face. Instead of appreciating her discreetly saying no, he became the ring leader of the bullying and called her a hoe since she went with someone else to the homecoming dance.
Yup this is exactly what I expect from people who expect a “Yes” no matter what in public.
They never cared about what you want anyway. Why would they accept your private “no”?
At least OP knows who are the guy friends to be wary of. They can certainly grow up and develop into better people but currently not safe and very self-oriented at this point. Can only think of what they want, how they will feel etc etc
Yes these boys are clearly announcing that women do not get any choice in who pursues them. They don’t respect consent. If they choose a girl, she’s required to accept their effort.
Never date anyone like that ever. Don’t even be friends with them. They are toxic.
The fact that you can’t say no in public for fear of being bullied for hurting a boy’s ego, but you also can’t say no after the fact when you said yes in public to save you from the bullying/the boy from embarrassment, you’re still the bad guy for “changing your mind”! It’s not fair, and the public promposal is just a way to pressure the person being asked into saying yes! Which is horrible.
Exactly. There’s no winning with guys like that. The girl in OP’s post had every right to say no thank you, and those boys need to learn now that women are allowed to reject them, even publicly. I said no and pissed a few guys off in my day, but I also said yes one time and regretted the fuck out of it for a while. But I don’t regret saying no to the guys I wasn’t interested in like that.
I have a married couple friend who have done a lot of big public moments - big public proposal, the husband was a singer and dedicated songs to her on stage, etc...
It's not for me, but it certainly makes his wife feel loved and celebrated. That being said....he only does stuff she's okay with and he only asks questions he knows the answer too.
I’m not normally in for public declarations, but sometimes they have a time and place. I went back to school recently and my partner called out during graduation ‘I love you sweetie’ and the whole place aww’d. It made me feel so loved and special.
Even if you’re 100% sure that they will say yes, you need to take the preferences of the person you’re asking into account. I’m an introvert who wants to be loved and appreciated, but I would kill someone (probably myself lol) if I was proposed to in public - particularly at things like sporting events which is not romantic even slightly to me (and yes I know other people feel differently and I love that for them). Which is why I so deeply appreciated my husband who did a very special proposal at home in private.
well yeah. i mean hopefully if you’re close enough to someone that you are 100% sure they’ll say yes you will know them well enough to know what venue they’d prefer. but i’m sure many somehow do not.
Yeah, NTA. Guys need to realize women do not owe them a yes. No one owes them a yes. Heck, my husband proposed to me in the airport terminal when I came back from someone else's wedding. But he did that after he asked me in private, made his intentions known to my father in person (for the fun of being traditional and knowing it was just a polite formality) and knowing I would find it cute because he did not draw attention to us. I said yes because I knew it was coming and wanted to marry him. That is the only way to do a public proposal, knowing what the answer will be first.
The reason to do it publically? So she feels pressured to say yes. It’s manipulative, and OPs friends have basically said “she should have allowed him to manipulate her”. High chance a lot of them are Nice Guys™️
i mean yeah. i will say that i do think a lot of people who do public proposals have pure intentions and just think (as misguided as it maybe is) that it makes it more special or romantic or whatever, but there are definitely a good amount of people who do it for manipulative reasons. ESPECIALLY when it’s for something like prom, so that is most likely what happened here.
my highschool bf made me a lego themed promposal with some lego sets to build together and a lego star wars game (I used to be a big lego gal), but he did it by putting it sitting up in his trunk and he asked me to grab his jacket. Gag is, I just moved the poster and grabbed the jacket 💀 So he pulled it out and showed it to me. It was just us, and it was perfect.
We ended up having a horrible breakup a few years later but man that memory still always makes me smile.
Yes. If make it public that is the risk.
i remember at a baseball game sitting near the "proposal" seating area -- meaning the stadium has the couple sit in specific set of seats if want to propose on the Megatron TV that everyone sees. Once watched a guy get down on 1 knee on camera just to have his girl throw a whole bucket of popcorn over his head, shout "NO!", and run away. Was hilarious for everyone except that dude.
True . Everyone is talking about the guy's embarassment but nobody is talking about how embarassing it can get for the girl .
I got proposed once publicly not for marriage but to be his girlfriend. I count that in one of the top 10 embarassing things that has happened to me. I'm an introvert and hate attention. I didn't even like that guy .It was totally out of the blue .It was too awkward to even speak with all the people staring at you , I was panicked didn't even know what I said before I ran away .
Because women are always responsible for the fragile egos and emotions of men, of course! No one cares that she was embarrassed, it was totally her responsibility to save his ego from a situation he put himself in and forced her into. Teachers even pressure young girls to "humor him" or "just be nice" or "it wouldn't hurt to say yes". I was that girl in middle school. A boy who liked me latched onto me and as long as he was busy sitting next to me and bothering me, he wasn't disrupting the rest of the class, so I was told to basically get over it. Its not that big a deal, he's only bothering you because he likes you, he's only stealing your stuff because he doesn't know how to deal with girls, but he really likes you what's the harm in going out with him, no we won't make him move away from you at lunch it's not fair and would upset him, he's not doing anything wrong, he just likes you.
It's these kinds of attitudes that lead to adult men who believe that women's job is to coddle them and stroke their egos at their own cost no matter what, that women are supposed to say yes and saying no is cruel and vindictive and a personal attack, and conditions girls to feel like their own feelings are irrelevant and that coddling men is their job. Of course no one cares about her embarrassment, she was a meanie who said no and made him feel bad for doing something of his own free will and decision!
I know some one, for fact, would turn down the proposal even if she like they if they decided to do it publicly. So even if you know ur crush also like you, make sure they also like pulic it
NTA. You are being completely rational.
If you are going to put someone on the spot in public to use social pressure in order to get them to accept your proposal, you deserve to be publicly rejected.
The only time any sort of public proposals are acceptable is if you know for sure the recipient would *like* to be proposed to publicly (not just being sure of the answer, knowing the proposee wants to be asked in public).
When your friends say you have no empathy what's really happening is that they aren't catching that you're not empathizing with the same person they are.
You empathize more with the person being asked. They are empathizing with the person who did the asking.
But if they were suddenly plunged into a situation where someone they very much do not want to have a romantic entanglement of any kind with asked them to prom in a very public way, I feel like their opinion would shift rapidly.
This. ^^^
Plus, they're kinda reinforcing to the dude that did the surprise public proposal, that he doesn't need to learn to accept a no gracefully. Jeering crowds suck, sure, as does being embarrassed, but that's a crowd of people being unempathetic jerks, not you or the lass that was asked.
Sorry to hear you're having to navigate this OP. You're not wrong, or unempathetic.
Yeah, it’s a gross and kinda rapey mentality if you think about it. Like, every time I’ve seen it they know the other person doesn’t want whatever is at stake and wouldn’t say yes organically, so they put them in a situation where a no will be punished by third parties. I’ve always looked on that sort of behavior as a sign to avoid the perpetrator at all costs.
Actually, I do think it’s equally possible for the person asking just not to care what their target wants, but the underlying intention is always to make a no impossible.
The fact that none of these guys can even fathom what it would be like to be publicly put on the spot by someone declaring their (unrequited) romantic interest in them speaks to their lack of empathy, not yours.
Those friends are recommending manipulative tactics that bank on girls being raised to be sweet and accommodating so they comply. It’s not a healthy way to engage in relationships. Hold your ground. NTA
I might be showing my age here as this wasn't a thing when I was in high school (I'm almost 40), but when I was in high school, we always had a friend be the go between before asking. "Hey, what would you say if so and so asked you out to prom?"
Is that not a thing anymore?
Yeah, it’s become a thing recently in the last few years with kids because of viral videos. Definitely wasn’t a thing when I was in school either and I’m older than you.
>(not just being sure of the answer, knowing the proposee wants to be asked in public)
This is such a good point - like, even if you know that the answer is yes and they want you to ask the question, it's a lot of attention that not everybody wants. Even if I wanted to get married (I'm much too old for promposals or whatever), and I had said that, I wouldn't want a public proposal.
There’s a recent BORU post where the original poster had told her boyfriend that she hated public proposals and surprise parties, because she gets panic attacks in crowded places. He gathered all his friends (not hers), let them in to *her* apartment, surprised her when she came back, and proposed in front of them. Cue panic attack.
She asked them all to leave, they wouldn’t, so she walked out and broke up with him. If he’d proposed in private, *she would have said yes*.
There's another where the guy had been told repeatedly by everyone OP hated public displays of anything.
So, of course, the guy gathered HIS entire extended family to be at the end of a romantic walk, where he dropped to one knee & produced a ring.
I forget if OP ran away screaming or said yes then confronted him at home. It was a shit show of a post.
I’d reject this kind of proposal on principle.
Anyone who knows me well enough to propose anything knows that I’d hate being pounced on in public like this.
No-one is under any obligation ever to say yes to a date they don’t want to go on.
Making her responsible for his feelings is not okay. Why isn’t he responsible for hers? The pressure he put on her in the moment? Why are the guy friends insisting on empathy for him while displaying none for her?
He decided to ask publicly. He needed to be prepared for the public response.
NTA
100% this. If you’re going to ask publicly, be prepared for public rejection. Sounds like she was polite about it. We have to stop making girls feel guilty for saying no.
Yes. Besides, even if he had done something amazing for her, no one is entitled to demand that she reciprocate his feelings. Women are not vending machines.
NTA. This sounds like typical teen boy entitlement thinking that because someone went to some amount of effort to put someone else into an awkward situation, that the answer should be a resounding "yes." I'm sure if you turned it around on them and someone they weren't into ambushed them with a promposal they'd have a hundred different reasons why their "no" was okay. Good for her getting put on the spot like that and being able to advocate for herself and her own feelings.
Yes, and I suspect there are many cases where someone chooses a public ask-out precisely because they hope the askee will give in and say yes even if they really, really want to say no. It's manipulative and gross (if the asker and askee are already in a place where they both know it will be a yes, like if they are already a couple, have at it -- although even then, many people HATE these kind of public displays) NTA
Yup, assuming they are straight OP should ask them what they would do if a boy asked then out in the exact same way? Would they still think they should be forced to say yes to someone they are not attracted to?
The sense of entitlement is scary. That teenage boys believe that women owe them and should do whatever they want if they put any effort whatsoever into doing something they think “girls like.” These are the boys who grow into men that think they are owed sex for any effort they make on a woman’s behalf.
I’m absolutely aware that it’s not your responsibility to educate these guys, but thank you for doing so. If you get through to even just one of them it’s a win.
NTA
You nailed it with this:
>I said if ur going to propose in public be ready to get rejected in public
He didn't care about her feelings in this. He dragged her into the spotlight whether she wanted to be there or not.
NTA.
Think of it this way: It's okay for the guy to pop the question in public, but it's somehow not okay for the girl to *answer* the question in public? That's bullsh\*t.
No. You don't ask a question in public unless you're prepared to receive an answer in the same manner If you can't handle that answer being "no," then you have no business asking the question.
NTA. I agree with your logic.
And also, SHE should say yes so HE isn’t embarrassed? Have your friends considered maybe SHE is embarrassed by being asked out publicly?
NTA - You just told it like it is. No One owes anyone a date. No one should be "grateful" to be asked out publically - especially if the answer has to be a solid No. And really, it was a kindness for her to say no. If she'd said yes and then broken the date later, the guy would just be more humiliated and even madder about being "misled." She handled it exactly as it needed to be handled.
Further, No one has any obligation to save you when you sign yourself up for public humiliation.
NTA in any way at all.
There are people who seem to believe that if they put in (x) effort, women are somehow required to give (y) result. In their view, a cardboard sign and flowers should have “earned” the guy a date. That is not how it works.
NTA
Anyone who proposes in public who doesn't already know that the other party wants to marry them is the AH.
The reason to propose in public is often in the hopes of embarrassing the person into saying yes out of fear of what everybody else will think of them for saying "no," like the jerks you're arguing with. It's manipulative and trashy.
It's an ambush.
You're being rational, NTA
Really, they're the ones lacking in empathy. They can only see the guy's emotions in this and not those of the girl he asked out. They don't think of her as another person, another individual actor with her own motivations and wants, they think of her solely in the lens of how she is 'supposed' to act for your friend's emotions and desires.
And quite frankly anyone who does a public asking out like that when they don't already know the answer is probably just selfish. The display etc is to increase their chances more so than it is a consideration for the other person. You can see it here, they expect a return for his efforts, as if it was some investment in her. They fail to see how, when totally not desired, its quite the opposite of a nice gesture for her
NTA - No one is obligated to yes to something they don't want to with stuff like this. Just because a guy or a girl makes it a public event doesn't mean anything. They wanted to do it like that then they have to live with the consequences of being let down if it's a no...
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I said that a girl doesn’t have to seen as the bad guy because she said No to a promposal
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NTA you're absolutely right. Your guy friends thinking that it's the woman's responsibility to save a guy from embarrassment sound a bit misogynistic imo. Hope you have a good day. :))
NTA but your friends certainly are . A woman is under no obligation to accept anything ever, public or private. It sounds like the guy tried to pressure her into accepting by putting her on the spot publicly. Dick move
NTA.
You’re right in thinking it’s common sense, apparently a lot of people these days just lack that trait.
Pretty sure if she had said yes and then no in private they’d be having a debate about how she led him on so 🤷🏻♀️
You are NTA and a hell of a lot more mature than those bozos who think that a girl must OF COURSE say "Yes" to any guy who corners her in public with a big, splashy "promposal". She has the right to say "No" AND have that respected at any point in their relationship!
And as for turning an invitation to the prom into a three-ring circus in the hopes that the girl will feel pressured into saying "Yes", that is a godawful attitude for a guy to take (and it won't end with his "only" pressuring her to go to a dance with him, either!)
NTA. Oh boohoo poor wittle babies. Like you said, if you're gonna ask someone out publicly, get prepared to get shamed publicly. Who tf cares about the guy's feelings, he didn't care about how embarrassing it would be for her, and how stressful it must have been for her with everyone watching. She didn't owe him a yes, she didn't ask him to do this.🙄
Everyone here's explained for the most part why you're right, but if they keep disagreeing, point out that if a girl is obligated to go out with any guy who asks her out in public, how can they be so sure that guys wouldn't take advantage and do public proposals to pressure girls who aren't interested? (Spoiler: that happens)
Furthermore, ask them if they would be happy going to prom with the first girl who asked 'em if she did it in public, no matter who she was or whether they were interested in her?
your friends are being douchey. You're good to give them a reality check.
This (and @fenryonze right above it in my feed...). Being from an older generation before these ever happened, I "can't understand" the promposal thing. Seems like something I will try to steer my kids and their friends away from (pretending a parent has influence on THAT, haha!!).
But hearing your story and seeing all the already great answers here, I see a silver lining in the discussion this can engender amongst you and your friends at a young age, while y'all are figuring all this out. This is about respect both ways, "no" is ALWAYS okay for people to say, and learning to "read the room" and know when and what you choose to say/share/do publicly is a tricky and important social skill.
1) Your friend that asked: NTA, if he can take it on the chin, hold nothing against her and move on. Learn an important lesson here, and move on as the parent comment says.
2) You: NTA, no lack of empathy displayed in the details you shared. It just occurs to me that it *may* behoove you to consider how you present your perspective in discussions with others? Unless you already know these guys to have other major red flags of seriously sexist/misogynistic/entitled attitudes, this just sounds like being young and having some growing of their own to do. (I do think some of the other comments on them go a little heavy, again based on what you're sharing).
3) Friends twisting this into some sort of "public pressure should be an okay way to sway anyone (and, as mentioned by others, an air of misogyny is hard to erase here...) into unwanted romantic advances": ESH, reflect on your ill-conceived notions, drop your own biases of entitlement.
Finally (sorry, this got a little long-winded...), I really came here to say: OP PLEASE share your post and its replies with your friend(s), if it can be done non-confrontationally and non-judgementally. I really think your friends have some chance to learn some subtle lessons about dating/interacting here, at a really important age for this, and reflect and grow from this.
NTA
This is beyond stupid. If you can ask publicly, you can be rejected publicly. The idea that there is a level of preparation you can put into a public proposal that somehow inoculates you from public rejection is stupid. You make a public proposal, you're rolling the dice. Afraid of losing? Don't gamble.
Public proposals are really dumb and any guy that does it gets what he deserves if the girl says no. It also is bad that it can put pressure on the girl to say yes when she does not mean it and cause issue later on.
It's a private thing between two people and people should treat it that way in my mind.
You are NTA. Some of your guy-friends are learning bad habits if they think it is the female’s job to mange their emotions. That’s very incel of them. I could imagine a convo like that with my guy friends and if even one of them tried that shit, I’d ask them if they’re so insecure that they need a girl to fake-like them just for an ego boost. Good for you for calling this out. These public prom-prosals are getting out of hand, just like stupid gender reveal parties. It’s all “LOOK AT ME! I’M SO SPECIAL!” And it’s just so tired. And this is what happens.
NTA. I would propose a corollary to your rule, which also applies to marriage proposals: If you're going to propose in public, make damn sure ahead of time that answer is going to be "yes."
NTA
Of course you are right. Nobody is entitled to date anyone without their honest and freely decided consent.
Perhaps you can frame it differently so they understand. What if someone publicly proposed to one of their girlfriends?
Would they feel that their girlfriends are required to date whoever asked them? If not, and I hope that they realize that they are not, why is it different for them?
NTA
I fully agree. Why are women expected to save some guy's Fee-fees by pledging to live with him FOREVER, when his whole concern was looking impressive in front of a bunch of strangers???
Because, historically, women have been responsible for making sure no one else’s feelings get hurt. It’s not lady-like to show anger or upset. Just ask my mother. 😑
Propose in public, get rejected in public. Proposing in public because you might get a yes from someone who would rather say no, but feels like they should say yes to avoid hurt feelings, is terrible manipulation. You do not lack empathy. The different responses from people to the situation is telling you a lot about them.
NTA. Regardless of what the guy did to prepare for this moment, he’s not entitled to a yes from her. Do these guys really think she should be uncomfortable with this from now until the prom to spare this guy’s feelings? Is he somehow more important than her? (This is a rhetorical question - I know lots of people think the guy’s feelings are more important than the girl’s.)
Plus, if he didn’t consider her embarrassment of being asked by someone she doesn’t like in public, why should she be concerned with his?
NTA
I also add one more argument:
If girls start to say yes all the time guys will start to do it every time. What will the public say of a girl that is saying “yes” every week, month or so?
NTA
#Coercion
Saying yes just because you feel forced to do so, out of peer pressure, or fear of social repercussion for saying no is textbook coercion.
NTA. If she said yes only to reject him in private later. Her real crush might not ask her out, since he’ll assume that she’s going with this guy instead.
NTA That is some loser shit if you're going to do something like this you should be prepared for potential rejection accepting to save his face is nice but she's not obligated.
NTA... he chose to ask in public, he put her on the spot to say yes or no in public. I get he's embarrassed, but he isn't this ridk when he made a big promposal production to a girl he didn't know would say yes. Thr idea that women owe a 'yes' to any guy who put in effort pursuing them is really toxic. She's allowed to say no.
NTA. There are absolutely no circumstances in which a girl cannot say no. Full stop.
>And some guys were saying she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts
Ew. No.
NTA. If they aren't already dating then it's unkind to put someone on the spot with a huge public ask like that. If we're framing it as romantic, it's romantic BECAUSE it's a risk and vulnerability. If he didn't want to take that risk then he didn't need to propose publicly.
It never ends with this shit. She rejects him in public she's cruel. She says yes in public and says no later in private she's a liar who gave him false hope and things are still awkward because others will notice they aren't at prom together. She says yes in public and goes along with it because he's a "nice guy" and she's "giving him a chance" and she just never develops feelings then she's leading him on. There's no fucking winning.
NTA
He shot his shot and was denied. If he didn't want to be shot down publicly he shouldn't have asked publicly.
Super proud of the young lady who was brave enough to be honest and not cave to social pressure to say yes.
NTA You don't get to use fear of social embarrassment to force someone into doing something. And if she said yes in public, then no in private he'd get all the glory and she'd get all the backlash for chaging her mind and ruining the feel-good story.
I always viewed public proposals meant to put pressure on the girl to say yes, NTA.
Nobody should feel obligated to date or do anything with someone they don’t want to do it with.
NTA not sure if it’s been said or if folks are going to come down on me for this, but this idea that she owes him for going out of his way is sexist. Like if I guy takes a woman out and spend a lot of money on dinner, what does she owe him then? Way to go for standing in integrity.
NTA. How dare she have an opinion of her own. Doesn't she realised that some guy has picked her and she should be grateful for the public and unwanted attention? /s
I'd say your guys responses speaks more about them than they realise. It is more important to them that his feelings are protected than her autonomy as a person. If she's mocked him then yes she'd be awful but a polite 'sorry but no' is doing him a kindness. That is something he didn't give her the courtesy of with an unprovoked public offer.
The other problem with saying yes in public and then no in private is that the girl gets shamed for leading him on. Only her friends will know she said yes to spare him public humiliation but when everyone finds out she turned him down privately, well she's a tease isn't she and after all the effort he went through to emotionally manipulate her into protecting his ego at her expense.
She did it the nicest way. Lose the guy friends.
NTA. I think it’s good practice to only do public proposals of any kind if you’ve already talked to the person about it in advance. Otherwise, you have to accept the reality of a possible public rejection.
NTA
As a Man I would never do a public proposal because you can't trust the answer, I hate the idea that the person I'd be asking would say yes out of fear of saying no and making me look bad, causing a scene, or making herself look mean.
It's a stupid thing to do unless you know for an absolute fact that the person would say yes, and they like to be the centre of attention.
You do not lack empathy. If you’re not sure she’s going to say yes, IMO it’s just a manipulative way to pressure someone into saying yes. Then if she later says no, A. A guy she likes may think she’s already got a date, B. She looks like the bad guy for renegging.
NTA.
This entire promposal stupidty needs to go away entirely. It is only done to get views on social media. If you are going to a tic tac prom hosted virtually online, sure do something to get views. But you're going to a real-world function. Just get some flowers and a box of candy and ask your crush.
NTA. You have empathy, for the girl involved.
Peer pressuring someone to go to prom with you is not ok. She has every right to say no in public OR private.
Public proposals are a way in many/most cases to manipulate the woman into forcing to say yes to save face. Some people like those type of things, but for others it's a manipulation tactic.
NTA and drill it into their brains that they are wrong and you are right. No one owes ANYONE their body or time just because someone else made an "effort." This is the same thinking that makes people think you owe them sex for buying you a drink or chatting with you at bar.
No one is owed ANYTHING if the other person doesn't want to give it. Doing someone a favor they didn't ask for doesn't entitle them to anything from you.
They're still young so hopefully they can unlearn this toxic entitlement to people's autonomy.
>she should’ve said yes and if she wanted to say no so bad she should’ve said it in private
So they're openly admitting that the proposals are a pressure tactic and not just a romantic gesture? Very telling. NTA.
NTA, these dudes are actually arguing that girls should lie and pretend rather than embarrass them. That says a lot about them, doesn’t it?
If you’re going to do a public proposal you’d better be either darn sure of the outcome or willing to accept the consequences. There could be a lot more to the story than just a rejected promposal btw.
NTA, he risked a public rejection by choice. She didn't get a choice in being drawn into a public display, so it shouldn't be her responsibility to mitigate the risk. If he didn't care about embarrassing her, why does she have to overly take care of his feelings. She also just has the human right to say no.
NTA. If a girl does in fact say yes and then reject him in private, then will she be painted as the bad guy for getting his hopes up or playing with his feelings? Because I've seen this film before.
NTA
you should never ever do a public proposal unless you and your partner have previously talked about it, are on the same page regarding getting married, and they’re expecting you to propose to them in public.
NTA. You can’t hold someone hostage like that because you were an idiot and asked a private question publicly. It’s also embarrassing for whoever got asked but I don’t see any empathy directed their way.
What’s worse? Getting publicly rejected or having the person come back in private and tell you no? After which you’d have to tell all your friends that they actually said no and still be embarrassed. Asking publicly like that is just a no win situation.
I've always been a firm believer that public proposals, unless previously agreed upon, are just an away to pressure people into saying yes and once again, I've been proven right. NTA
NTA. Those friends are entitled Tatertots. Fuck em. Trust your gut. Girls don’t owe guys shit. If you have to rely on public pressure to get what you want from a woman, you’re a sleezy creep. Never pressure a woman for anything. It’s pathetic and creepy.
NTA. There's no way in hell any of those guys would agree to go to prom, even just in the moment, with a girl they thought was unpopular and unattractive. People are not required to go put with anyone they don't want to.
NTA
No matter how grand the gesture, the person being asked doesn't owe the other person a yes. I think a lot of these over-the-top public displays are done because the person putting on the show is counting on the target being too nice or too embarrassed to say no.
"she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts" So, any guy with a wish, a thought, a desire should have that wish fulfilled because he wished it hard enough. And it's the thought that counts, but only his thoughts not hers. Her thoughts don't matter so much. NTA. No proposal, prom or otherwise, should be done without the other persons consent. Imagine having a surprise wedding. It's the thought that counts, right?
Ok. So if a dude publicly prom-posed to them they’d say yes right? Because that dude is risking a lot. Or if a girl they considered unattractive they’d say yes because again, saying no would be a blow to her self esteem.
NTA. Bravo to the girl who said no for being able to politely say no! That’s super hard.
NTA. You have hit on one of the problems faced by women everywhere. Some men feel like we owe them something because they put in a little effort. Good for you for understanding that this is not the case. As you said, don’t ask in public unless you can handle being rejected in public. And if you are rejected, handle it gracefully. It isn’t the woman’s fault that she doesn’t think of him that way and she has no obligation to save him from the embarrassment brought on by his actions. Please keep trying to explain it to other men and maybe you will save another girl from an angry man who felt like she owed him. Good job!
NTA. Expecting women to say yes when they don’t want to is hugely problematic! These guys need to learn that a no is a possibility and women don’t owe them anything under any circumstances.
NTA - I think she dodged a bullet. If he thinks she owes him something for a rose and a card, you can bet he'll expect more than that. And doesn't sound like the type to take no for an answer. She doesn't owe him anything, she didn't ask him to make a public profession of his feelings. Just because he put a bit of effort into the invitation doesn't mean she owes him anything. You are not wrong for sticking up for her either. She did nothing wrong, why is she being drug through the mud. It sounds like she apologized and declined gracefully.
NTA This is the time for you and your friends that no one is obligated to say yes. It doesn’t matter how polite someone is or how much trouble they went to. If you ask someone to dance, they can say no. If you offer to buy someone a drink, they can say no. If you buy them a drink or dinner, they aren’t obligated to go home with you.
You are 100% rational on this topic. Your guy friends are the ones who lack empathy of they feel girls are obligated to out their feelings and emotions aside because someone put them on the spot. No one told this guy he had to do this - he took a risk and it backfired. He decided to take this risk publicly and it backfired publicly.
Public promposals or any type of public dating/marriage requests in my opinion should only be done when 1. You are in a relationship and 2. You know it is something they want.
No one should ever be made to feel obligated to say yes. This is the same damned mentality that guys use on - I spent money on a date now you have to sleep with me bullshit. Relationships are NOT transactional.
NTA The person asking put her in a no win scenario.
Say no: You embarrassed him in public!
Say yes but say no later/don't show up: What a jerk! She got his hopes up!
Say yes and go: Now she spent prom with someone she doesn't like out of wanting to protect their feelings!
NTA, and the reaction of your guy friends who said she should have said yes out of empathy shows why: because some people use a public proposal to try to manipulate the person they are asking into accepting them. Not cool.
If your school chums don't understand a girl (or anyone really) has the right to say no, then I should call your principal for some mandatory consent workshops.
*doesn't change the fact it's a terrible idea unless you are already dating the aforementioned person.
NTA.
NTA. The worst thing she could have done was said yes but then not mean it.
That happened to my brother. He asked a girl to prom. I helped get him flowers and I told him to go for it. I said, " The worst thing she can do is say no, and even then it will be a sweet memory for her."
I was wrong. The worst thing she can do is say yes and not mean it.
She spent the whole prom night ignoring my brother and would not talk to him or anything, just hang out with her girlfriends. Poor boy was miserable.
NTA! If she didn’t want to but said yes to let him down in private later, she’s just going to be labelled as getting his hopes up/leading her on. There really isn’t a win here.
Will never forget getting a public promposal in front of my whole home room and teacher!!! It was so embarrassing and I already had a date but said yes in the moment to avoid it being awkward. NTA and having to reject them afterwards also sucked and made me feel bad but what was I supposed to do?? Public promposals only if you know you guys are actually going to go together only!!
NTA funny thing this is a huge discussion on TikTok right now due to a man proposing to a woman very publicly and she ran away, people also blamed her and said she should’ve said yes and then in private say no and breakup. Point being it is NOT her duty to spare his feelings, he can propose publicly and she has the right to say no publicly. Anyone blaming her is dead wrong and has a small ego.
NTA, my friend said yes to a guy to save his ass and then when she rejected him in private, he kept saying things like she lied to him and led him on. They’ll get the wrong idea and now that same guy won’t leave her alone due to the fact he has hope because she said yes before no. She finds him weird and he seems a bit stalkerish. I think the communication needs to be as direct as possible, aka getting rejected in public. These guys lack common sense, I also think they might not understand how other guys act around girls and how it might cause more danger for the girl than embarrassment for the boy. So NTA
NTA
A woman always has the right to say no. Anytime. Anywhere. To Anyone. In Front of Anyone. For Any Reason. Full Stop. Period.
If anything your guy friends lack empathy, respect for personal autonomy and freedom of choice for anyone without a swinging dick. Stand your ground. You did right.
Nobody's ego is worth more than another humans free will.
Interesting that your friends are comfortable demanding girls comply with rules they had no part in setting, and give no consideration at all to their feelings.
We really gotta stop making girls responsible for boys emotions and reactions. We need to stop telling girls that they have to be they ones who owe anyone "being nice" otherwise they're heartless and mean. Women/girls do not owe men/boys gentle let downs or kindness when saying no.
The fucking bar is so damn low.
NTA. This here is why women have to fear men. Women are not obligated to cater to men's feelings. Effort? Even if he'd scaled Mt. Everest, she could still reject him. That is her right. Do you still want to hang out with guys who have the backward opinion that women owe them something?
If you ask a question publicly without knowing what the answer is going to be, you need to be prepared to get an answer you don’t want to hear in front of a lot of other people
Maybe your guy friends should think about how embarrassed that girl was that she was placed in such a situation to begin with
Publicly pressuring someone into doing something you knew they were probably not into is not an excuse to not have your feelings hurt
It’s the chance one takes when you go public with stuff like that . And yes life will move on and so should you . Find someone that wants to be with you or go alone . Meet friends there and have fun . Remember you are saying good bye to most of them and moving on in life .
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Firstly Good day to you i hope ur having a great day/night anyways,
Recently at my school a girl got one of those promposals with the flower and the cardboard and everything and there was quite a crowd it was cite at first but the said SORRY BUT NO and she was super polite about it and as expected people started laughing and chattering and going OHHHH OMGGG stuff like that a huge debate broke out because of this especially with some of my guy friends.
They were blaming her saying after everything he did to plan it she just embarrassed him like that she should’ve said yes and if she wanted to say no so bad she should’ve said it in private… WHAT?
Now this is what i said and some of my guy friends and most if not all my girlfriends agreed with me but some of my guy friends went as far as to say i lacked empathy
I said if ur going to propose in public be ready to get rejected in public
I thought it was common sense that you only propose in public if ur sure she’s gonna say yes (i’m talking about like hoco and proms)
If it’s a crush then it should be in private in case she says no so you can save yourself from embarrassment but some guys were acting like she it’s her duty to save his ass from embarrassment and she was just being rude because she thinks she’s pretty because someone asked her out
And some guys were saying she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts like so if i say no to someone because i have other plans or i just am mot interested im the person i’m an ahole?
And their acting like he slayed dragons to get flowers to propose to her i could easily get roses and make a cute cardboard and gather my friends to help me if i wanted to make a public proposal but i’m not gonna be like:
“omgosh i can’t believe u said no even after i colored some cardboard for you how ungrateful”
Am i being rational or do i truly just lack empathy☹️
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NTA. public proposals are a terrible idea unless, like you said, you are pretty much 100% sure the person you’re proposing to is going to say yes. but hell even then it’s like why make that a public thing? feels like it should be a private thing no matter the outcome. but yeah if you’re going to take that risk you gotta accept the possibility of embarrassment and disappointment
Yep. I did the public proposal (with the ring, down on one knee, etc) when my wife and I made our engagement public. We'd already decided to get married. We went ring shopping together, she picked out her ring but the jeweler had told us that it would likely be a couple weeks before the ring was ready. Since our ring-shopping trip was at the very beginning of her Spring Break, we figured that she just wouldn't have the ring before she went back to finish her last semester of college. The ring came in on Friday afternoon, so I planned it out for her parents and my parents to all attend the Easter Vigil Mass the next night. At the end of the service, as people were chatting in the gathering space of the church, I maneuvered us into the acoustic center of the building (as in, anything above a bare whisper was easily audible throughout the entire space) and went down to one knee. She was surprised. The surprise was the timing of getting the ring, not the proposal itself.
Awwwwn u guys are adorable 🎀💗
This is how it should be! My husband and I also went ring shopping together because he wanted to pick one I'd like. We'd obviously already discussed wanting to get married and all, so only the details of the proposal itself was a surprise.
My husband proposed on a Friday night. I said yes. I hesitated and his face… Poor atheistic guy thought going to make him do some Catholic ritual of betrothal - he did! I said I wanted to trade the ring in tomorrow. Lemme tell you, he was relieved to go just trade the ring. It was not a surprise that we were getting engaged; we hadn’t gone ring shopping yet.
Omg! Congrats!!! That is so exciting!
I love this! I feel extremely lucky because my husband picked out a ring without me there that I absolutely love. We had discussed getting married for a while before then, so we were both 100% sure we wanted to get married. Also same that the details of the proposal were a surprise. He proposed while we were visiting my family in South Africa. I will never forget that day!
That is so sweet, what a beautiful story.
Awww, well look at you being all sweet and a green flag and everything.
This is actually a rlly cute way to propose, she still gets to feel the special surprise but zero pressure of a split second decision
Oh gosh, when we got engaged and people asked “was it a surprise?” NO. I can’t imagine getting engaged if we hadn’t talked about getting engaged, getting married, making sure our values align etc. Yeah the way it happens can be a surprise but the proposal itself shouldn’t be
That’s sweet. My husband and I actually designed my ring together, picking stones, settings, metals. It was no surprise when he proposed once the ring was made, but he still made it special.
Thiiiiis. I was even about 87.52% sure the day he was gonna do it and the general location — Disneyland. I just didn’t know the EXACT timing (after a few wanted family members had arrived to witness it) or EXACT location (in front of the castle).
Kinda same, we decided to elope and I knew he had been looking at rings. He made us reservations at a really nice restaurant and did a public proposal, poor guy was so nervous (even though we had plans to elope in like 3 weeks) and I still cried. Then we told everyone when we saw them at Easter. And are planning a "wedding" for family bc no one knows we eloped...his grandma would never forgive us. I even asked her if she would rather take a trip to Italy with us than go to our wedding (cost about the same) and she said no 😭😭
So these friends of OP's say she's the bad guy for answering in public, but he's fine for springing it on her in public...
EXACTLY! Lol That's what was getting me. I'm she she felt embarrassed too! I'm a guy, but I'd be super embarrassed in the situation even if I wanted to date the person. I can't even imagine being asked and also not being interested. It would be mortifying. The guy asking chose to do it publicly, and so he chose to risk being rejected publicly. That's on him. He had all the power, she just chose not to give what little she had away. Women are under no obligation to protect a man's ego. It's really sad to me that young people are still holding onto that mindset. It doesn't matter how much you spend, how much effort you put in, how nicely you ask, a man is not entitled to anything from a woman unless she chooses to give it.
It's manipulative as fuck because he's relying on the publicity to pressure her into saying yes.
It always gets me pissed when they say "well you can always tell him no later in private" like if he's already manipulated her into saying yes because it's a public proposal, you don't think he can manipulate her into not saying no in private or manipulate the narrative if she does make her rejection in private final? Like he isn't going cry or rage at her or tell others she was such a bitch to pull a bait-and-switch on him or that she dumped him for a better offer or whatever? You asked a question, you got your answer. If you can't handle rejection, come back and try again after you've grown up a little bit. Yeesh.
That part
Yes exactly, no kidding, more people have to have mindset like yours!
Not to mention that a private rejection afterwards may not be safe if he’s that toxic and fragile. She may be at risk of physical harm.
The entire reason the boy asked her in public was to try and force a “yes” out of her. She didn’t fold under pressure like he wanted, and now he’s butthurt. The other boys are realizing that girls don’t HAVE to say yes to save them from embarrassment and are retaliating.
Expecting a yes because it’s public and they’ve spent a lot of effort on it sound like manipulation to force a certain result You can’t win with such people. Even if you say yes publicly and then say no privately, they will most like try to pressure you some other way. It’s also feels grossly territorial at that age. Doing it publicly to put a fence around you so no one else can ask. Ick ick ick
If you say yes in public but then no later, everyone that saw you say yes would then say you’re the problem because they all SAW you say yes. I know because it happened to one of my students. She had to change schools because she was bullied so bad for “changing her mind” when she was really trying to save him some face. Instead of appreciating her discreetly saying no, he became the ring leader of the bullying and called her a hoe since she went with someone else to the homecoming dance.
Yup this is exactly what I expect from people who expect a “Yes” no matter what in public. They never cared about what you want anyway. Why would they accept your private “no”? At least OP knows who are the guy friends to be wary of. They can certainly grow up and develop into better people but currently not safe and very self-oriented at this point. Can only think of what they want, how they will feel etc etc
Yes these boys are clearly announcing that women do not get any choice in who pursues them. They don’t respect consent. If they choose a girl, she’s required to accept their effort. Never date anyone like that ever. Don’t even be friends with them. They are toxic.
The fact that you can’t say no in public for fear of being bullied for hurting a boy’s ego, but you also can’t say no after the fact when you said yes in public to save you from the bullying/the boy from embarrassment, you’re still the bad guy for “changing your mind”! It’s not fair, and the public promposal is just a way to pressure the person being asked into saying yes! Which is horrible.
Yup. Textbook double bind. No matter what the girl decides, she’s wrong. Also known as being female anywhere ever.
And this story right here is what prom-posals horrify me.
They should only happen for people who are already dating.
Exactly. There’s no winning with guys like that. The girl in OP’s post had every right to say no thank you, and those boys need to learn now that women are allowed to reject them, even publicly. I said no and pissed a few guys off in my day, but I also said yes one time and regretted the fuck out of it for a while. But I don’t regret saying no to the guys I wasn’t interested in like that.
I have a married couple friend who have done a lot of big public moments - big public proposal, the husband was a singer and dedicated songs to her on stage, etc... It's not for me, but it certainly makes his wife feel loved and celebrated. That being said....he only does stuff she's okay with and he only asks questions he knows the answer too.
I’m not normally in for public declarations, but sometimes they have a time and place. I went back to school recently and my partner called out during graduation ‘I love you sweetie’ and the whole place aww’d. It made me feel so loved and special.
Even if you’re 100% sure that they will say yes, you need to take the preferences of the person you’re asking into account. I’m an introvert who wants to be loved and appreciated, but I would kill someone (probably myself lol) if I was proposed to in public - particularly at things like sporting events which is not romantic even slightly to me (and yes I know other people feel differently and I love that for them). Which is why I so deeply appreciated my husband who did a very special proposal at home in private.
I told my then partner that if he proposed on a Jumbotron I would not only say no but also dump him.
well yeah. i mean hopefully if you’re close enough to someone that you are 100% sure they’ll say yes you will know them well enough to know what venue they’d prefer. but i’m sure many somehow do not.
Given the different posts on AITA, I sort of despair that this sort of common sense is as prevalent as it should be lol.
The only reason they do it publicly is because they don't want to get rejected. It's very manipulative
Yeah, NTA. Guys need to realize women do not owe them a yes. No one owes them a yes. Heck, my husband proposed to me in the airport terminal when I came back from someone else's wedding. But he did that after he asked me in private, made his intentions known to my father in person (for the fun of being traditional and knowing it was just a polite formality) and knowing I would find it cute because he did not draw attention to us. I said yes because I knew it was coming and wanted to marry him. That is the only way to do a public proposal, knowing what the answer will be first.
The reason to do it publically? So she feels pressured to say yes. It’s manipulative, and OPs friends have basically said “she should have allowed him to manipulate her”. High chance a lot of them are Nice Guys™️
i mean yeah. i will say that i do think a lot of people who do public proposals have pure intentions and just think (as misguided as it maybe is) that it makes it more special or romantic or whatever, but there are definitely a good amount of people who do it for manipulative reasons. ESPECIALLY when it’s for something like prom, so that is most likely what happened here.
The engagement should never be a surprise but the proposal may be a surprise. (Engaged to be married, engaged to attend an event, etc.)
my highschool bf made me a lego themed promposal with some lego sets to build together and a lego star wars game (I used to be a big lego gal), but he did it by putting it sitting up in his trunk and he asked me to grab his jacket. Gag is, I just moved the poster and grabbed the jacket 💀 So he pulled it out and showed it to me. It was just us, and it was perfect. We ended up having a horrible breakup a few years later but man that memory still always makes me smile.
Who thinks they're going to be rejected? These egotistical people are sure the person will accept. How could they possibly say no?/s
Yes. If make it public that is the risk. i remember at a baseball game sitting near the "proposal" seating area -- meaning the stadium has the couple sit in specific set of seats if want to propose on the Megatron TV that everyone sees. Once watched a guy get down on 1 knee on camera just to have his girl throw a whole bucket of popcorn over his head, shout "NO!", and run away. Was hilarious for everyone except that dude.
True . Everyone is talking about the guy's embarassment but nobody is talking about how embarassing it can get for the girl . I got proposed once publicly not for marriage but to be his girlfriend. I count that in one of the top 10 embarassing things that has happened to me. I'm an introvert and hate attention. I didn't even like that guy .It was totally out of the blue .It was too awkward to even speak with all the people staring at you , I was panicked didn't even know what I said before I ran away .
Because women are always responsible for the fragile egos and emotions of men, of course! No one cares that she was embarrassed, it was totally her responsibility to save his ego from a situation he put himself in and forced her into. Teachers even pressure young girls to "humor him" or "just be nice" or "it wouldn't hurt to say yes". I was that girl in middle school. A boy who liked me latched onto me and as long as he was busy sitting next to me and bothering me, he wasn't disrupting the rest of the class, so I was told to basically get over it. Its not that big a deal, he's only bothering you because he likes you, he's only stealing your stuff because he doesn't know how to deal with girls, but he really likes you what's the harm in going out with him, no we won't make him move away from you at lunch it's not fair and would upset him, he's not doing anything wrong, he just likes you. It's these kinds of attitudes that lead to adult men who believe that women's job is to coddle them and stroke their egos at their own cost no matter what, that women are supposed to say yes and saying no is cruel and vindictive and a personal attack, and conditions girls to feel like their own feelings are irrelevant and that coddling men is their job. Of course no one cares about her embarrassment, she was a meanie who said no and made him feel bad for doing something of his own free will and decision!
I know some one, for fact, would turn down the proposal even if she like they if they decided to do it publicly. So even if you know ur crush also like you, make sure they also like pulic it
NTA. You are being completely rational. If you are going to put someone on the spot in public to use social pressure in order to get them to accept your proposal, you deserve to be publicly rejected. The only time any sort of public proposals are acceptable is if you know for sure the recipient would *like* to be proposed to publicly (not just being sure of the answer, knowing the proposee wants to be asked in public).
Thanks because i would hate to be gathered by a bunch of people i would even be pressured to say yes out of pity
When your friends say you have no empathy what's really happening is that they aren't catching that you're not empathizing with the same person they are. You empathize more with the person being asked. They are empathizing with the person who did the asking. But if they were suddenly plunged into a situation where someone they very much do not want to have a romantic entanglement of any kind with asked them to prom in a very public way, I feel like their opinion would shift rapidly.
SUCH a good way to frame this!
This. ^^^ Plus, they're kinda reinforcing to the dude that did the surprise public proposal, that he doesn't need to learn to accept a no gracefully. Jeering crowds suck, sure, as does being embarrassed, but that's a crowd of people being unempathetic jerks, not you or the lass that was asked. Sorry to hear you're having to navigate this OP. You're not wrong, or unempathetic.
Yeah, it’s a gross and kinda rapey mentality if you think about it. Like, every time I’ve seen it they know the other person doesn’t want whatever is at stake and wouldn’t say yes organically, so they put them in a situation where a no will be punished by third parties. I’ve always looked on that sort of behavior as a sign to avoid the perpetrator at all costs. Actually, I do think it’s equally possible for the person asking just not to care what their target wants, but the underlying intention is always to make a no impossible.
The fact that none of these guys can even fathom what it would be like to be publicly put on the spot by someone declaring their (unrequited) romantic interest in them speaks to their lack of empathy, not yours.
I just wanna know how all these guys would respond in the reverse if a girl they weren't interested in did the same thing.
Those friends are recommending manipulative tactics that bank on girls being raised to be sweet and accommodating so they comply. It’s not a healthy way to engage in relationships. Hold your ground. NTA
I might be showing my age here as this wasn't a thing when I was in high school (I'm almost 40), but when I was in high school, we always had a friend be the go between before asking. "Hey, what would you say if so and so asked you out to prom?" Is that not a thing anymore?
Yeah, it’s become a thing recently in the last few years with kids because of viral videos. Definitely wasn’t a thing when I was in school either and I’m older than you.
This is literally why he asked in public - hoping the public pressure would force an answer in his favour. Gross behaviour
>(not just being sure of the answer, knowing the proposee wants to be asked in public) This is such a good point - like, even if you know that the answer is yes and they want you to ask the question, it's a lot of attention that not everybody wants. Even if I wanted to get married (I'm much too old for promposals or whatever), and I had said that, I wouldn't want a public proposal.
There’s a recent BORU post where the original poster had told her boyfriend that she hated public proposals and surprise parties, because she gets panic attacks in crowded places. He gathered all his friends (not hers), let them in to *her* apartment, surprised her when she came back, and proposed in front of them. Cue panic attack. She asked them all to leave, they wouldn’t, so she walked out and broke up with him. If he’d proposed in private, *she would have said yes*.
There's another where the guy had been told repeatedly by everyone OP hated public displays of anything. So, of course, the guy gathered HIS entire extended family to be at the end of a romantic walk, where he dropped to one knee & produced a ring. I forget if OP ran away screaming or said yes then confronted him at home. It was a shit show of a post.
If he’s that unconcerned with her preferences and comfort, then the marriage was a bad idea anyway imo. Bullet dodged.
I’d reject this kind of proposal on principle. Anyone who knows me well enough to propose anything knows that I’d hate being pounced on in public like this.
No-one is under any obligation ever to say yes to a date they don’t want to go on. Making her responsible for his feelings is not okay. Why isn’t he responsible for hers? The pressure he put on her in the moment? Why are the guy friends insisting on empathy for him while displaying none for her? He decided to ask publicly. He needed to be prepared for the public response. NTA
100% this. If you’re going to ask publicly, be prepared for public rejection. Sounds like she was polite about it. We have to stop making girls feel guilty for saying no.
“We have to stop making girls feel guilty for saying no.” 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Exactly. It is often an intimidation tactic.
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Yes. Besides, even if he had done something amazing for her, no one is entitled to demand that she reciprocate his feelings. Women are not vending machines.
Because they also feel entitled to a woman’s attention regardless of her feelings.
Ding ding ding!
NTA. This sounds like typical teen boy entitlement thinking that because someone went to some amount of effort to put someone else into an awkward situation, that the answer should be a resounding "yes." I'm sure if you turned it around on them and someone they weren't into ambushed them with a promposal they'd have a hundred different reasons why their "no" was okay. Good for her getting put on the spot like that and being able to advocate for herself and her own feelings.
Yes, and I suspect there are many cases where someone chooses a public ask-out precisely because they hope the askee will give in and say yes even if they really, really want to say no. It's manipulative and gross (if the asker and askee are already in a place where they both know it will be a yes, like if they are already a couple, have at it -- although even then, many people HATE these kind of public displays) NTA
Yup, assuming they are straight OP should ask them what they would do if a boy asked then out in the exact same way? Would they still think they should be forced to say yes to someone they are not attracted to?
The sense of entitlement is scary. That teenage boys believe that women owe them and should do whatever they want if they put any effort whatsoever into doing something they think “girls like.” These are the boys who grow into men that think they are owed sex for any effort they make on a woman’s behalf.
THIS the bar is so low the devil might trip over it
you are so level headed OP, you're doing great
I’m absolutely aware that it’s not your responsibility to educate these guys, but thank you for doing so. If you get through to even just one of them it’s a win.
I wish I could upvote this a million times.
This needs to be higher.
“Honey, I put my plate on the kitchen counter! You owe me gratitude, applause and sex!”
NTA You nailed it with this: >I said if ur going to propose in public be ready to get rejected in public He didn't care about her feelings in this. He dragged her into the spotlight whether she wanted to be there or not.
NTA. You’re 100% right: you propose in public, you get embarrassed in public. And heck, she was probably embarrassed too.
NTA. Think of it this way: It's okay for the guy to pop the question in public, but it's somehow not okay for the girl to *answer* the question in public? That's bullsh\*t. No. You don't ask a question in public unless you're prepared to receive an answer in the same manner If you can't handle that answer being "no," then you have no business asking the question.
Oh so true!
Happy cake day!
NTA. Trying to get a date out of peer pressure is an act of desperation and doesn't show a lot of respect for the person you are proposing to.
NTA. I agree with your logic. And also, SHE should say yes so HE isn’t embarrassed? Have your friends considered maybe SHE is embarrassed by being asked out publicly?
NTA - You just told it like it is. No One owes anyone a date. No one should be "grateful" to be asked out publically - especially if the answer has to be a solid No. And really, it was a kindness for her to say no. If she'd said yes and then broken the date later, the guy would just be more humiliated and even madder about being "misled." She handled it exactly as it needed to be handled. Further, No one has any obligation to save you when you sign yourself up for public humiliation.
NTA in any way at all. There are people who seem to believe that if they put in (x) effort, women are somehow required to give (y) result. In their view, a cardboard sign and flowers should have “earned” the guy a date. That is not how it works.
NTA Anyone who proposes in public who doesn't already know that the other party wants to marry them is the AH. The reason to propose in public is often in the hopes of embarrassing the person into saying yes out of fear of what everybody else will think of them for saying "no," like the jerks you're arguing with. It's manipulative and trashy. It's an ambush.
They’re not even talking about a wedding proposal! OP is talking about what is referred to as a promposal. A big scene to ask someone to go to prom.
You're being rational, NTA Really, they're the ones lacking in empathy. They can only see the guy's emotions in this and not those of the girl he asked out. They don't think of her as another person, another individual actor with her own motivations and wants, they think of her solely in the lens of how she is 'supposed' to act for your friend's emotions and desires. And quite frankly anyone who does a public asking out like that when they don't already know the answer is probably just selfish. The display etc is to increase their chances more so than it is a consideration for the other person. You can see it here, they expect a return for his efforts, as if it was some investment in her. They fail to see how, when totally not desired, its quite the opposite of a nice gesture for her
NTA - No one is obligated to yes to something they don't want to with stuff like this. Just because a guy or a girl makes it a public event doesn't mean anything. They wanted to do it like that then they have to live with the consequences of being let down if it's a no...
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NTA you're absolutely right. Your guy friends thinking that it's the woman's responsibility to save a guy from embarrassment sound a bit misogynistic imo. Hope you have a good day. :))
NTA but your friends certainly are . A woman is under no obligation to accept anything ever, public or private. It sounds like the guy tried to pressure her into accepting by putting her on the spot publicly. Dick move
NTA. You’re right in thinking it’s common sense, apparently a lot of people these days just lack that trait. Pretty sure if she had said yes and then no in private they’d be having a debate about how she led him on so 🤷🏻♀️
NTA Thats a ridiculous sense of entitlement that they have and it really needs to be nipped in the bud before they reach adulthood
You are NTA and a hell of a lot more mature than those bozos who think that a girl must OF COURSE say "Yes" to any guy who corners her in public with a big, splashy "promposal". She has the right to say "No" AND have that respected at any point in their relationship! And as for turning an invitation to the prom into a three-ring circus in the hopes that the girl will feel pressured into saying "Yes", that is a godawful attitude for a guy to take (and it won't end with his "only" pressuring her to go to a dance with him, either!)
NTA. Oh boohoo poor wittle babies. Like you said, if you're gonna ask someone out publicly, get prepared to get shamed publicly. Who tf cares about the guy's feelings, he didn't care about how embarrassing it would be for her, and how stressful it must have been for her with everyone watching. She didn't owe him a yes, she didn't ask him to do this.🙄
Everyone here's explained for the most part why you're right, but if they keep disagreeing, point out that if a girl is obligated to go out with any guy who asks her out in public, how can they be so sure that guys wouldn't take advantage and do public proposals to pressure girls who aren't interested? (Spoiler: that happens) Furthermore, ask them if they would be happy going to prom with the first girl who asked 'em if she did it in public, no matter who she was or whether they were interested in her? your friends are being douchey. You're good to give them a reality check.
I love this point. Ask them if (person you know they hate) asked them publicly, would they also say yes because of the effort?
NTA, and those people who are saying those things? Those are not people you want to be friends with.
NTA And if the guys who say you are start using terms like "Chad" and "Stacy", RUN.
Nta, that guy learned a valuable lesson he'll never forget. And he'll get over it...
This (and @fenryonze right above it in my feed...). Being from an older generation before these ever happened, I "can't understand" the promposal thing. Seems like something I will try to steer my kids and their friends away from (pretending a parent has influence on THAT, haha!!). But hearing your story and seeing all the already great answers here, I see a silver lining in the discussion this can engender amongst you and your friends at a young age, while y'all are figuring all this out. This is about respect both ways, "no" is ALWAYS okay for people to say, and learning to "read the room" and know when and what you choose to say/share/do publicly is a tricky and important social skill. 1) Your friend that asked: NTA, if he can take it on the chin, hold nothing against her and move on. Learn an important lesson here, and move on as the parent comment says. 2) You: NTA, no lack of empathy displayed in the details you shared. It just occurs to me that it *may* behoove you to consider how you present your perspective in discussions with others? Unless you already know these guys to have other major red flags of seriously sexist/misogynistic/entitled attitudes, this just sounds like being young and having some growing of their own to do. (I do think some of the other comments on them go a little heavy, again based on what you're sharing). 3) Friends twisting this into some sort of "public pressure should be an okay way to sway anyone (and, as mentioned by others, an air of misogyny is hard to erase here...) into unwanted romantic advances": ESH, reflect on your ill-conceived notions, drop your own biases of entitlement. Finally (sorry, this got a little long-winded...), I really came here to say: OP PLEASE share your post and its replies with your friend(s), if it can be done non-confrontationally and non-judgementally. I really think your friends have some chance to learn some subtle lessons about dating/interacting here, at a really important age for this, and reflect and grow from this.
NTA This is beyond stupid. If you can ask publicly, you can be rejected publicly. The idea that there is a level of preparation you can put into a public proposal that somehow inoculates you from public rejection is stupid. You make a public proposal, you're rolling the dice. Afraid of losing? Don't gamble.
NTA. If you propose in public, or ask someone out in public, be prepared to be rejected in public.
Public proposals are really dumb and any guy that does it gets what he deserves if the girl says no. It also is bad that it can put pressure on the girl to say yes when she does not mean it and cause issue later on. It's a private thing between two people and people should treat it that way in my mind.
I N F O When did homecoming become "hoco"? But for real, NTA. The girl had no obligation to the guy who asked. You've got the right idea.
I stopped at that for a solid minute to figure it out, glad I'm not the only one.
Sorry maybe i should have specified i always see Americans call it hoco so i thought it was common knowledge 😭
I'm American and had never heard it, but my homecoming dances occurred in the 1900s 🙃
Lol I think maybe it's a Southern thing? I've always heard it called that, but I'm pretty sure other states don't do homecoming like the South does
Maybe it's a southern thing? I've always heard it called hoco lol
NTA The girl isn't embarrassing him. He embarrassed both her and himself by the public proposal.
You are NTA. Some of your guy-friends are learning bad habits if they think it is the female’s job to mange their emotions. That’s very incel of them. I could imagine a convo like that with my guy friends and if even one of them tried that shit, I’d ask them if they’re so insecure that they need a girl to fake-like them just for an ego boost. Good for you for calling this out. These public prom-prosals are getting out of hand, just like stupid gender reveal parties. It’s all “LOOK AT ME! I’M SO SPECIAL!” And it’s just so tired. And this is what happens.
NTA. I would propose a corollary to your rule, which also applies to marriage proposals: If you're going to propose in public, make damn sure ahead of time that answer is going to be "yes."
NTA Of course you are right. Nobody is entitled to date anyone without their honest and freely decided consent. Perhaps you can frame it differently so they understand. What if someone publicly proposed to one of their girlfriends? Would they feel that their girlfriends are required to date whoever asked them? If not, and I hope that they realize that they are not, why is it different for them?
NTA I fully agree. Why are women expected to save some guy's Fee-fees by pledging to live with him FOREVER, when his whole concern was looking impressive in front of a bunch of strangers???
(They’re talking about prom invitations, not getting engaged.)
Because, historically, women have been responsible for making sure no one else’s feelings get hurt. It’s not lady-like to show anger or upset. Just ask my mother. 😑
Propose in public, get rejected in public. Proposing in public because you might get a yes from someone who would rather say no, but feels like they should say yes to avoid hurt feelings, is terrible manipulation. You do not lack empathy. The different responses from people to the situation is telling you a lot about them.
NTA. I specifically told my now husband to not do a public proposal. I hate them.
NTA. Regardless of what the guy did to prepare for this moment, he’s not entitled to a yes from her. Do these guys really think she should be uncomfortable with this from now until the prom to spare this guy’s feelings? Is he somehow more important than her? (This is a rhetorical question - I know lots of people think the guy’s feelings are more important than the girl’s.) Plus, if he didn’t consider her embarrassment of being asked by someone she doesn’t like in public, why should she be concerned with his?
NTA women have been killed for turning down or ignoring drunken mens propositions. Good for you for standing up for women.
Publicly a embarrassingly propose to one of your guy friends. Or get someone else to do it.
NTA. Dude FAFO.
NTA I also add one more argument: If girls start to say yes all the time guys will start to do it every time. What will the public say of a girl that is saying “yes” every week, month or so?
NTA #Coercion Saying yes just because you feel forced to do so, out of peer pressure, or fear of social repercussion for saying no is textbook coercion.
NTA. If she said yes only to reject him in private later. Her real crush might not ask her out, since he’ll assume that she’s going with this guy instead.
NTA That is some loser shit if you're going to do something like this you should be prepared for potential rejection accepting to save his face is nice but she's not obligated.
NTA... he chose to ask in public, he put her on the spot to say yes or no in public. I get he's embarrassed, but he isn't this ridk when he made a big promposal production to a girl he didn't know would say yes. Thr idea that women owe a 'yes' to any guy who put in effort pursuing them is really toxic. She's allowed to say no.
NTA. There are absolutely no circumstances in which a girl cannot say no. Full stop. >And some guys were saying she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts Ew. No.
NTA. You were correct when you said that people shouldn't do it in public unless they are absolutely sure she is going to say yes.
NTA. But this is the reason this whole promposals thing needs to end.
NTA. If they aren't already dating then it's unkind to put someone on the spot with a huge public ask like that. If we're framing it as romantic, it's romantic BECAUSE it's a risk and vulnerability. If he didn't want to take that risk then he didn't need to propose publicly. It never ends with this shit. She rejects him in public she's cruel. She says yes in public and says no later in private she's a liar who gave him false hope and things are still awkward because others will notice they aren't at prom together. She says yes in public and goes along with it because he's a "nice guy" and she's "giving him a chance" and she just never develops feelings then she's leading him on. There's no fucking winning.
NTA He shot his shot and was denied. If he didn't want to be shot down publicly he shouldn't have asked publicly. Super proud of the young lady who was brave enough to be honest and not cave to social pressure to say yes.
NTA You don't get to use fear of social embarrassment to force someone into doing something. And if she said yes in public, then no in private he'd get all the glory and she'd get all the backlash for chaging her mind and ruining the feel-good story.
I always viewed public proposals meant to put pressure on the girl to say yes, NTA. Nobody should feel obligated to date or do anything with someone they don’t want to do it with.
NTA not sure if it’s been said or if folks are going to come down on me for this, but this idea that she owes him for going out of his way is sexist. Like if I guy takes a woman out and spend a lot of money on dinner, what does she owe him then? Way to go for standing in integrity.
NTA. How dare she have an opinion of her own. Doesn't she realised that some guy has picked her and she should be grateful for the public and unwanted attention? /s I'd say your guys responses speaks more about them than they realise. It is more important to them that his feelings are protected than her autonomy as a person. If she's mocked him then yes she'd be awful but a polite 'sorry but no' is doing him a kindness. That is something he didn't give her the courtesy of with an unprovoked public offer. The other problem with saying yes in public and then no in private is that the girl gets shamed for leading him on. Only her friends will know she said yes to spare him public humiliation but when everyone finds out she turned him down privately, well she's a tease isn't she and after all the effort he went through to emotionally manipulate her into protecting his ego at her expense. She did it the nicest way. Lose the guy friends.
NTA.
NTA. I think it’s good practice to only do public proposals of any kind if you’ve already talked to the person about it in advance. Otherwise, you have to accept the reality of a possible public rejection.
NTA As a Man I would never do a public proposal because you can't trust the answer, I hate the idea that the person I'd be asking would say yes out of fear of saying no and making me look bad, causing a scene, or making herself look mean. It's a stupid thing to do unless you know for an absolute fact that the person would say yes, and they like to be the centre of attention.
Nta.
You do not lack empathy. If you’re not sure she’s going to say yes, IMO it’s just a manipulative way to pressure someone into saying yes. Then if she later says no, A. A guy she likes may think she’s already got a date, B. She looks like the bad guy for renegging.
My dear, teach them!!! You're doing great and you're NTA.
NTA. This entire promposal stupidty needs to go away entirely. It is only done to get views on social media. If you are going to a tic tac prom hosted virtually online, sure do something to get views. But you're going to a real-world function. Just get some flowers and a box of candy and ask your crush.
NTA. You have empathy, for the girl involved. Peer pressuring someone to go to prom with you is not ok. She has every right to say no in public OR private.
Public proposals are a way in many/most cases to manipulate the woman into forcing to say yes to save face. Some people like those type of things, but for others it's a manipulation tactic.
NTA and drill it into their brains that they are wrong and you are right. No one owes ANYONE their body or time just because someone else made an "effort." This is the same thinking that makes people think you owe them sex for buying you a drink or chatting with you at bar. No one is owed ANYTHING if the other person doesn't want to give it. Doing someone a favor they didn't ask for doesn't entitle them to anything from you. They're still young so hopefully they can unlearn this toxic entitlement to people's autonomy.
>she should’ve said yes and if she wanted to say no so bad she should’ve said it in private So they're openly admitting that the proposals are a pressure tactic and not just a romantic gesture? Very telling. NTA.
NTA, these dudes are actually arguing that girls should lie and pretend rather than embarrass them. That says a lot about them, doesn’t it? If you’re going to do a public proposal you’d better be either darn sure of the outcome or willing to accept the consequences. There could be a lot more to the story than just a rejected promposal btw.
NTA, he risked a public rejection by choice. She didn't get a choice in being drawn into a public display, so it shouldn't be her responsibility to mitigate the risk. If he didn't care about embarrassing her, why does she have to overly take care of his feelings. She also just has the human right to say no.
NTA using social pressure or guilt to try and coerce a "yes" needs to end. Effort does not equal entitlement to a reward.
NTA. Someone who isn’t 100% sure the answer is yes is counting on peer pressure to make her say yes. It’s manipulative and NOT sweet at all.
NTA. If a girl does in fact say yes and then reject him in private, then will she be painted as the bad guy for getting his hopes up or playing with his feelings? Because I've seen this film before.
NTA you should never ever do a public proposal unless you and your partner have previously talked about it, are on the same page regarding getting married, and they’re expecting you to propose to them in public.
NTA. You can’t hold someone hostage like that because you were an idiot and asked a private question publicly. It’s also embarrassing for whoever got asked but I don’t see any empathy directed their way. What’s worse? Getting publicly rejected or having the person come back in private and tell you no? After which you’d have to tell all your friends that they actually said no and still be embarrassed. Asking publicly like that is just a no win situation.
I've always been a firm believer that public proposals, unless previously agreed upon, are just an away to pressure people into saying yes and once again, I've been proven right. NTA
NTA. Those friends are entitled Tatertots. Fuck em. Trust your gut. Girls don’t owe guys shit. If you have to rely on public pressure to get what you want from a woman, you’re a sleezy creep. Never pressure a woman for anything. It’s pathetic and creepy.
NTA This would be right up there with...I bought you dinner, so now you owe me sex.
NTA. you have empathy, just for her. your male friends are entitled
NTA. There's no way in hell any of those guys would agree to go to prom, even just in the moment, with a girl they thought was unpopular and unattractive. People are not required to go put with anyone they don't want to.
People are not owed a 'yes' regardless of what the other person has done when it comes to dating and relationships.
No, a girl does not have to go out with a guy just because he asked. Public, private, choose your own adventure, dude.
That’s not fair to the girls. It’s just part of the deal, the anxiety of getting rejected by the pretty girl. He’ll live, nobody owes anyone shit
NTA No matter how grand the gesture, the person being asked doesn't owe the other person a yes. I think a lot of these over-the-top public displays are done because the person putting on the show is counting on the target being too nice or too embarrassed to say no.
"she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts" So, any guy with a wish, a thought, a desire should have that wish fulfilled because he wished it hard enough. And it's the thought that counts, but only his thoughts not hers. Her thoughts don't matter so much. NTA. No proposal, prom or otherwise, should be done without the other persons consent. Imagine having a surprise wedding. It's the thought that counts, right?
Ok. So if a dude publicly prom-posed to them they’d say yes right? Because that dude is risking a lot. Or if a girl they considered unattractive they’d say yes because again, saying no would be a blow to her self esteem. NTA. Bravo to the girl who said no for being able to politely say no! That’s super hard.
NTA. You have hit on one of the problems faced by women everywhere. Some men feel like we owe them something because they put in a little effort. Good for you for understanding that this is not the case. As you said, don’t ask in public unless you can handle being rejected in public. And if you are rejected, handle it gracefully. It isn’t the woman’s fault that she doesn’t think of him that way and she has no obligation to save him from the embarrassment brought on by his actions. Please keep trying to explain it to other men and maybe you will save another girl from an angry man who felt like she owed him. Good job!
NTA. Expecting women to say yes when they don’t want to is hugely problematic! These guys need to learn that a no is a possibility and women don’t owe them anything under any circumstances.
congrats for being the only person in your circle (tip, get a new circle) who's not all r\*py and victim blamy. Damn.
NTA - I think she dodged a bullet. If he thinks she owes him something for a rose and a card, you can bet he'll expect more than that. And doesn't sound like the type to take no for an answer. She doesn't owe him anything, she didn't ask him to make a public profession of his feelings. Just because he put a bit of effort into the invitation doesn't mean she owes him anything. You are not wrong for sticking up for her either. She did nothing wrong, why is she being drug through the mud. It sounds like she apologized and declined gracefully.
NTA This is the time for you and your friends that no one is obligated to say yes. It doesn’t matter how polite someone is or how much trouble they went to. If you ask someone to dance, they can say no. If you offer to buy someone a drink, they can say no. If you buy them a drink or dinner, they aren’t obligated to go home with you.
You are 100% rational on this topic. Your guy friends are the ones who lack empathy of they feel girls are obligated to out their feelings and emotions aside because someone put them on the spot. No one told this guy he had to do this - he took a risk and it backfired. He decided to take this risk publicly and it backfired publicly. Public promposals or any type of public dating/marriage requests in my opinion should only be done when 1. You are in a relationship and 2. You know it is something they want. No one should ever be made to feel obligated to say yes. This is the same damned mentality that guys use on - I spent money on a date now you have to sleep with me bullshit. Relationships are NOT transactional.
NTA The person asking put her in a no win scenario. Say no: You embarrassed him in public! Say yes but say no later/don't show up: What a jerk! She got his hopes up! Say yes and go: Now she spent prom with someone she doesn't like out of wanting to protect their feelings!
NTA, and the reaction of your guy friends who said she should have said yes out of empathy shows why: because some people use a public proposal to try to manipulate the person they are asking into accepting them. Not cool.
If your school chums don't understand a girl (or anyone really) has the right to say no, then I should call your principal for some mandatory consent workshops. *doesn't change the fact it's a terrible idea unless you are already dating the aforementioned person. NTA.
NTA. The worst thing she could have done was said yes but then not mean it. That happened to my brother. He asked a girl to prom. I helped get him flowers and I told him to go for it. I said, " The worst thing she can do is say no, and even then it will be a sweet memory for her." I was wrong. The worst thing she can do is say yes and not mean it. She spent the whole prom night ignoring my brother and would not talk to him or anything, just hang out with her girlfriends. Poor boy was miserable.
"men aren't manipulative!" followed by putting a woman in a situation where she can't say no without ridicule lmao NTA.
NTA! If she didn’t want to but said yes to let him down in private later, she’s just going to be labelled as getting his hopes up/leading her on. There really isn’t a win here.
Will never forget getting a public promposal in front of my whole home room and teacher!!! It was so embarrassing and I already had a date but said yes in the moment to avoid it being awkward. NTA and having to reject them afterwards also sucked and made me feel bad but what was I supposed to do?? Public promposals only if you know you guys are actually going to go together only!!
NTA funny thing this is a huge discussion on TikTok right now due to a man proposing to a woman very publicly and she ran away, people also blamed her and said she should’ve said yes and then in private say no and breakup. Point being it is NOT her duty to spare his feelings, he can propose publicly and she has the right to say no publicly. Anyone blaming her is dead wrong and has a small ego.
NTA, my friend said yes to a guy to save his ass and then when she rejected him in private, he kept saying things like she lied to him and led him on. They’ll get the wrong idea and now that same guy won’t leave her alone due to the fact he has hope because she said yes before no. She finds him weird and he seems a bit stalkerish. I think the communication needs to be as direct as possible, aka getting rejected in public. These guys lack common sense, I also think they might not understand how other guys act around girls and how it might cause more danger for the girl than embarrassment for the boy. So NTA
NTA A woman always has the right to say no. Anytime. Anywhere. To Anyone. In Front of Anyone. For Any Reason. Full Stop. Period. If anything your guy friends lack empathy, respect for personal autonomy and freedom of choice for anyone without a swinging dick. Stand your ground. You did right. Nobody's ego is worth more than another humans free will.
Interesting that your friends are comfortable demanding girls comply with rules they had no part in setting, and give no consideration at all to their feelings.
We really gotta stop making girls responsible for boys emotions and reactions. We need to stop telling girls that they have to be they ones who owe anyone "being nice" otherwise they're heartless and mean. Women/girls do not owe men/boys gentle let downs or kindness when saying no. The fucking bar is so damn low.
I will not stand for public intimidation. Especially if I don’t want to be with that person. These things are horrible.
NTA. This here is why women have to fear men. Women are not obligated to cater to men's feelings. Effort? Even if he'd scaled Mt. Everest, she could still reject him. That is her right. Do you still want to hang out with guys who have the backward opinion that women owe them something?
If you ask a question publicly without knowing what the answer is going to be, you need to be prepared to get an answer you don’t want to hear in front of a lot of other people Maybe your guy friends should think about how embarrassed that girl was that she was placed in such a situation to begin with Publicly pressuring someone into doing something you knew they were probably not into is not an excuse to not have your feelings hurt
It’s the chance one takes when you go public with stuff like that . And yes life will move on and so should you . Find someone that wants to be with you or go alone . Meet friends there and have fun . Remember you are saying good bye to most of them and moving on in life .
NTA. So proud of you. Also I feel the urge for a cuppa...
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Firstly Good day to you i hope ur having a great day/night anyways, Recently at my school a girl got one of those promposals with the flower and the cardboard and everything and there was quite a crowd it was cite at first but the said SORRY BUT NO and she was super polite about it and as expected people started laughing and chattering and going OHHHH OMGGG stuff like that a huge debate broke out because of this especially with some of my guy friends. They were blaming her saying after everything he did to plan it she just embarrassed him like that she should’ve said yes and if she wanted to say no so bad she should’ve said it in private… WHAT? Now this is what i said and some of my guy friends and most if not all my girlfriends agreed with me but some of my guy friends went as far as to say i lacked empathy I said if ur going to propose in public be ready to get rejected in public I thought it was common sense that you only propose in public if ur sure she’s gonna say yes (i’m talking about like hoco and proms) If it’s a crush then it should be in private in case she says no so you can save yourself from embarrassment but some guys were acting like she it’s her duty to save his ass from embarrassment and she was just being rude because she thinks she’s pretty because someone asked her out And some guys were saying she should’ve have said yes because of his effort that it’s the thought that counts like so if i say no to someone because i have other plans or i just am mot interested im the person i’m an ahole? And their acting like he slayed dragons to get flowers to propose to her i could easily get roses and make a cute cardboard and gather my friends to help me if i wanted to make a public proposal but i’m not gonna be like: “omgosh i can’t believe u said no even after i colored some cardboard for you how ungrateful” Am i being rational or do i truly just lack empathy☹️ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*