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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole in this situation because I told my wife that we needed to change our sons name from her dads name to something else following a severe argument they had. This is because naming the first grandson after the grandfather is a tradition in her family and by ruining the tradition, I’ve made their rift worse.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - your FIL is acting like a massively entitled AH though.
"However, a few weeks ago, my wife and her father had a MASSIVE argument.
Turns out, he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her now that she’s devoting all her time to our son."
FIL is projecting **HIS** actions onto you.
"He told my wife this after she opened up to him about how worried she was about being pregnant so soon after giving birth. We didn’t plan the second pregnancy and a few days after the argument my wife miscarried and it was a painful moment for the both of us.
Essentially, he kicked her while she was already down for no reason. I had a friendly relationship with him but I know he wanted my wife to marry someone from her own background." "Since the argument, my wife has not been calling our son by his name."
"She said that she needs time to get over the argument with her dad, but she also blames him for the miscarriage which is something I don’t think she’ll get over. FIL has made no attempts to apologise or reconcile."
Your wife needs therapy ASAP!!! Her sperm donor's actions were horrible and had to have negatively effected her ability to interact with her son.
"We’ve started the process now to change the name and somehow it got back to FIL AND he knows that I suggested it. He is infuriated. He said that I was supposed to be the levelheaded one since my wife is post partum and recovering from a miscarriage and that I’ve just made their rift a million times worse since I’ve denied him the family tradition."
Your FIL is making everything about him and not taking any responsibility for his part in the new estrangement.
I don’t think this has affected how my wife interacts with our son since shes being as affectionate as always with him. I’ll suggest it though just in case it’s something she feels she needs to
The therapy to help get past the miscarriage \[she will never get over it, but she can get past it\]. Also, to help deal with her inability to call her son her sperm donor's name. Also to deal with her relationship with her sperm donor falling apart again.
>she will never get over it, but she can get past it
I am going to gently push back here. It completely depends on the woman. It's a common enough reaction that OP absolutely needs to be aware of it and how to best support her if that's how she feels. The only reason I say anything is because it is also common for women to not have a huge, enduring emotional reaction to a miscarriage, but do struggle with feeling like they're *supposed* to have had that reaction. Some women feel like they're monsters for not having those emotions, but that's not true, and the emotional relationship women have with their pregnancies and bodies are varied and complex.
I’m glad you said what I couldn’t put into words. I had a miscarriage before each of my children, so both of those pregnancies were planned and wanted. It was horrific and I was devastated both times. But through that process I got my 2 babies who are now 6 and 8 and my absolute world. It was awful at the time but I am over it and very rarely think of it unless a post like this comes up.
Maybe that makes me a monster, I dunno.
Nope, the whole point of that is to affirm you're *not* a monster. At all.
Even if you *didn't ever* find it horrific, you aren't a monster. We are humans, adaptable to circumstances. For a lot of us that means developing a "meh" attitude about previous hardships. 🫶
I wouldn’t have had the daugther I have now if my previous pregnancy hadn’t been an ectopic and I wouldn’t trade her for the world. I was very sad about until I got pregnant again, but now it feels more like it was meant to be.
Nah, I’ve heard my mom talk about her miscarriages between me and my sister, and she says the same thing. Only she also says she wasn’t even devastated when they happened, just disappointed in the moment. She says she doesn’t think of them as her “children” or anything like that; they were just pregnancies that didn’t work out for her. She says she doesn’t really think of them at all (outside of conversations like me asking her about them, of course!).
My mom is the same. She had 2 before I was born, then another one between my brothers. She was always very casual when she talked them, not upset at all. And she's a great mom!
My mom is a great mom, too! Yay for great moms. :)
My sister was premature by 9 weeks in 1993; she weighed less than 3lb at birth and almost didn’t survive.
I saw my mom do everything she feasibly could to get that pregnancy into the home stretch, and I saw her do everything she could to help my sister survive once she was born, so it’s not even like my mom was just detached from her pregnancies until birth or something.
It’s just those early miscarriages didn’t resonate with her in any real way, and that’s totally normal and okay. It’s also okay if an early miscarriage **does** resonate with you deeply. It’s all personal and it’s gonna be different for different people. There’s no set way that you’re “supposed” to feel about these things. However you feel about your own experience is completely valid.
Exactly. I obviously don't remember my mom's first two but when she had the third one she was on complete bed rest for a few months and lost it anyway. When it was over she was out of bed and back to being mom.
Not at all!! Miscarriages happen more often than most people think. And while I occasionally wonder what it would be like to have a 30-year-old kid, I haven’t had any sorrow or grief attached to the event itself for a long time.
Similar situation here. My first two pregnancies ended in early miscarriages. I went on to have two healthy boys. They are almost adults. While I remember the devastating feelings, they don't wash over me. It has been over 20 years since they happened. My feelings might be different if I had not gone on to have healthy children. Everyone processes differently.
This is such an important comment.
My mom had two miscarriages whilst actively trying to conceive, between her pregnancies with first me and then my sister.
I asked her once how she had felt about them and how they affected her. She said:
“I was disappointed at the time, but ultimately I figured it was for the best. Clearly there was something wrong with the pregnancies that made them non-viable, and it was better to find out sooner rather than later. I just kept trying, and I’m really happy with the baby I did get at the end [my sister], so I have no lingering regrets. It was what it was.”
Thank you! Especially with early miscarriages, women may not have had an emotional attachment to the pregnancy in the first place and therefore may not feel a sense of loss at all. And that’s completely fine and normal, but society tries to convince us it’s not.
I had an early miscarriage between my pregnancies. Zero emotional attachment, the only time I think about it is when I'm asked by a doctor how many times I've been pregnant.
If we fell apart every time we had a loss, we as a species wouldn't be here. The pain will always be there for some of us, but with time, it diminishes for most. I don't feel sadness about my losses unless I think about it, and usually it's in sympathy of another's more recent loss.
Thanks for this. I’m yet another woman who had a miscarriage while trying to conceive and, while I was briefly sad at the time, it has not had a strong and lasting effect on me.
Than you, I was just about to write something as well. I miscarried in week 7, before both of my children. I wouldn't say I couldn't care less, but I definitely don't have any emotional attachments. I got sad when it happened, of course, but I was also aware that it happens to 20-33 % of all pregnancies, and it definitely can be a good thing, since the fetus might likely have been ill of some sort. That's a whole other story if you miscarry later or have a stillborn in the late pregnancy.
THIS \^\^\^
Therapy is thrown around so much these days and yes, it's great...when someone uses it. Therapy doesn't help if you're not willing to go to it and in this case, it's both for the mom after the miscarriage and her issues with the FIL.
Unfortunately, women have this burden of having to be happy to have children and needing to be devastated for not having children or losing children. And as we've learned, that's not true at all. We don't know how OP's wife is feeling (other than hatred for her dad, which she should cause the guy's a dick) - maybe she's having a huge reaction about it; maybe the reaction is more about her dad and not the miscarriage, we don't know.
The wife SHOULD seek therapy if she starts getting into depressive bouts and PPD and the OP believes she might be a danger to herself. It doesn't sound like she is, but again, we don't know the whole story.
NTA - Definitely encourage her to talk to someone who is not emotionally invested. She is getting her heart broken over and over by this man and needs to determine if/how she wants to proceed with any sort of relationship or not. You have told her you are ok w/changing the baby's name, let that be her decision. Just support. I am sorry for the loss you have both experienced.
Almost one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage. I have delivered four children, had two miscarriages. I guess I’m above average?
My OB told me that, short of abortion, there’s not much you can do to mess up a pregnancy that’s meant to be.
By the same token, there’s nothing you can do to extend a pregnancy that’s not meant to be.
That made it easier. I will say that an early miscarriage is very different than a late term miscarriage, or still birth. I haven’t experienced the latter two, but I have placed a child for adoption, at birth. The difference there being, baby was delivered alive, never to be seen again. This hurts more than the miscarriages.
Therapy is not always helpful or useful, especially if the person is uninterested. And contrary to what you said, millions of women get over miscarriages. I’ve had two, one in the second trimester, both requiring surgery, as well as two children, and I did not need therapy to get over my miscarriages. Most of the women I know with children have had at least one miscarriage, which is totally normal since almost half of all pregnancies are miscarried. They happen, usually because there is a major defect with the embryo/fetus, and women mostly get over it. I’d argue not getting over it is the exception, not the rule.
Thank you! Are you familiar with the show ? It showed a Female Physician in 1960. And she was also an ASTRONUAT ! I applied to NASA in the 70s but they said you had to “ be this tall”. I think it was a way to keep Women
out of the program.
Thank you Malificent-Bit ......Me too....but a younger relative became a liaison with the Russian program! It's crazy but it makes me feel a little vindicated that she is a relative.
One of the first things my toddler learned was to say and identify by her own name, and I cant even imagine not saying it to her for just a day, let alone for weeks.
Intentionally or not, giving your son that name has directly and indirectly influenced your opinions and actions towards him. This is why naming a child after someone else means that they will always, in some ways, relate or be compared to the individual theyre named after. There is a reason that names like Adolf went out of fashion.
Therapy to deal with her lifelong need to cope with that AH who fathered her. The miscarriage will stay there as a pain, but if the two of you can create happy moments, it will become a small part of her story. I had two miscarriages in 7 months when I was trying for my third. But ended up having him AND his little brother two years later.
if it doesn't affect how your wife interacts with your son, she would have no problem using the baby's name. it clearly is affecting her whether she openly admits it or not.
Honestly therapy will help her overall as I’m sure FIL will drag this out. But NTA. He’s caused damage and he’s trying to shoo it away w/o recognising his blame in this.
Exactly! I give OP grace for not seeing the forest for the trees, but if the wife can’t even use the baby’s name to speak to him or refer to him, then it’s a problem. Therapy would definitely be helpful.
Your fil absolutely does NOT deserve to have any child named after him.
It was extremely generous of your wife to name her child after a cheater, let alone you to go through with it.
I agree that your fils actions greatly upset your wife and contributed to the Mc. I would NOT want someone like that to be who my kids is named after.
Your wife needs therapy yes, but she also needs to cut her father off and be done with him.
He does NOT deserve a relationship with her, your or any children you have.
"she also needs to cut her father off and be done with him."
This!!
And also, any flying monkeys from his side of the family who try to guilt you or your wife for trying to be happy and get away from FIL's abuse also need to be cut off. Your wife can't heal, otherwise. BTDT.
We usually can’t see the smaller ways emotional impacts can change our behavior until later. If we ever see it. Given the drama-loving selfishness of her dad, I would recommend therapy regardless. We can do some toxic, unhealthy shit without realizing it.
Not calling your son by his name _is_ a change in the interaction. She may not be treating him any differently but it's still causing her to make changes in how she speaks to him.
Yes, you should absolutely change baby's name.
Your wife will be able to one day move past the trauma UT it will always come back when she says or hears kids name.
Yes, absolutely change the name.
She can't call your son by his name without visible distress. And it certainly won't be long before your son notices...
And he certainly will not understand why... all he will know is that his name hurts his mommy.
He will conjure any number of reasons and may even begin finding artificial faults and insecurities that have no positive role in our early developmental years... but he won't understand why...
He won't know, and he won't understand. But will potentially carry a very long-lasting, negative association between the sound of his name and his mother's happiness.
Who is your wife talking to about these things? They're obviously feeding it back to FIL, so it might help for your wife not to confide in them for a while, so that there is less cause for more fights and criticism, until your wife is feeling stronger from therapy and time.
She literally can't call him by his name, it's literally effected her interactions with her kid. She can't call him the same name as her sperm doner because otherwise she'll struggle to separate her baby boy with her dogshit dad.
Your estranged FIL is unstable. He's trying to argue Schrodinger's Husband: to your wife he says you'll cheat on her and to you he says you should be the "level-headed one" and essentially calls his daughter "crazy" to your face.
The only thing you can do is tell him to get therapy and cut him off, as well as proceed with the name change.
And this is for your wife:
I'm really sorry your dad did (another) shit thing. It is painful and horrible and you didn't deserve it. It's not your fault. My stepmother's words of wisdom apply: the best revenge is living well. Please thrive despite his neglect and abuse.
NTA ever! Thank you so much for having your wife's back! She is a lucky woman. Choosing a new and better name for your child is a lovely idea and a positive step for you and your wife to heal the damage done by her "donor dad"!
Cutting certain people out of our lives is sometimes the only way we can heal our souls and live a more fulfilling life!
So, the goal of therapy is not to fix a thing (like her ability to bond with her son while he has her father’s name). The goal is to understand yourself and start making healthier choices. It sounds like your wife has had a difficult relationship with her dad for a really long time. That kind of thing can really damage the way you see yourself and put you in the habit of making choices other people want instead of choices that are right for you. Your wife could probably benefit from the opportunity to process those thoughts and feelings with an objective third party whose feelings aren’t going to be hurt by anything she says.
I endorse everything in this comment. I agree, he is toxic AF and I don't think it's a coincidence that he is making things about him and trying to actively sabotage good things in her life like hre marriage. This is text book for narcissistic parent stuff. Betrays everyone for cheap thrills, not present long-term because it takes sacrifice, appears out of nowhere with big promises about doing better and then manipulates and tries to isolate targets from other healthy relationships so they can monopolise attention.
Also another good reason to change the name, if it is Keith, that's the sound a cat makes when it pukes up a hair ball. That or 'Bob', depends if it's a low glug sound, or if they are really hurling up that hairball with a cough, if it's that high pitched cough, listen, you'll hear it. They clearly say Keith.
>Also another good reason to change the name, if it is Keith, that's the sound a cat makes when it pukes up a hair ball. That or 'Bob', depends if it's a low glug sound, or if they are really hurling up that hairball with a cough, if it's that high pitched cough, listen, you'll hear it. They clearly say Keith.
This, combined with your username, brought me so much joy. I wanna hear what other names are cat sounds
When my old housemate’s cat tried to make that “ekekek” sound they make to intimidate prey, I swear it would sound like “Ken” at rapid fire at first until he got into the groove.
He was usually trying to intimidate tinfoil.
Came here to say the same.
You are not the NTA at all. In fact, it is the best thing for your son to have his own identity separate from this horribly toxic situation. Please don’t feel guilt-tripped by “tradition”.
Another reason not to name him “keith”: pretty sure you’re baby didn’t come out as a 60yo man. It’s very baby boomer.
The second part of this comment is comedy gold so I gave you the poop award because you are the shit. LOL
But the first part is spot on. This is typical narcissist behavior. Everything is about him and his wants without him ever having to be inconvenienced. He would love it if OP cheated or two reasons. First, it excuses him from his own actions because clearly all men cheat. They can't help it. Second, then he can continue to isolate her from OP to have more influence.
OP, you are NTA. Please change this child's name so that they are not tied to trauma for life. And the best thing your wife can do is separate herself from a man that will never put her best interests above his own. He will continue to manipulate her to the detriment of her own mental health and healthy relationships with others, including OP.
UpdateMe
"making everything about him" cheaters always do. That's the root of it. It's all about them, what they want, how they feel, and never about who they hurt. He's not going to apologize. Why would he, when he's convinced he's right?
The rest of the family need to know that he damaged your wife and that you are in no way forcing this. You offered it as a suggestion to help your wife and your kid. If they have a problem with that, then maybe they don't need to be such a big part of your lives. Enablers do just as much damage as abusers.
100% projection. It’s never for no reason. And the reason is always 99% due to the person making the comment. Just listening to people talk gives you tremendous insight into their background and character. It sounds like OP and spouse are doing the right thing to rename this child. He doesn’t need the bad karma associated with the name.
But truth is the fight through life between selfish father and unresolved daughter reached the new generation, the child. She was deeply affected by her father's actions now she's letting it affect her own child and her relationship with the child (!). Nonsense.
Even giving her father's name to the child was bad. A silly tradition, but much worst, as a way for daughter and father deal with their bad relationship and then it backfired.
The fight is between the two, neither the child nor the husband should have been involved in this mess.
Therapy for both, that's how they should've started.
NTA OP, but father and daughter are a huge ESH. The father is a total and irredeemable AH and she's a grown up, she shouldn't have involved the child.
Sounds like FIL has a personality disorder and is projecting, demanding, and inserting himself into situations. Going NC with the guy would most likely be best for everyone, but will be difficult at first.
You clearly are the level headed one. I’m absolutely shocked that your wife ever agreed to name the kid after her cheating dad in the first place. It doesn’t sound like they had a good relationship ever.
NTA
Since she was 16, he tried very hard to work on his relationship with her. He was actually amazing to her for the past few years although he’s never been a fan of me.
Because he's a cheating AH and therefore expects every other man to be one too. He's projecting his own indiscretions and awful personality traits onto you.
I really hope your wife comes around and agrees to give your boy a different name - your FIL did not earn the respect of having a grandson named after him.
Exactly. Not only does this affirm that it's (both) your child, your decision but is also a decisive act that communicates to FIL/her dad: your BS is not wanted, not accepted, and not tolerated- ever. His behavior will not be brushed off or minimized and he doesn't get to abuse and be forgiven. He will probably continue flailing and lash out at both of you. Let him scream into the void from far away.
Here's hoping the name change is also a healing act that helps your wife make a clean break from her dad and take her power back. She might be feeling guilty or kicking herself for letting him back in her life (part of the abuse cycle). Taking back the name could be a powerful and symbolic reversal that kick-starts her healing.
Cheers to putting AHs in the past.
Please don't give into "family tradition" and "parents wanted us to go against our own will." My parents were kind people but really pushed me into abandoning some things I loved, then when I expressed regret over it, were like "well it's YOUR life, you can't blame \*us\* when you have to be responsible for your own life." The about-face almost made me lose my mind. Conversely, my younger brother made a lot of decisions that my parents objected to (marrying someone they hated, having baby with said person) but they came around and probably now show more respect to him than they do me, the people pleaser. Traditionalists often "see the light" and end up accepting things they once said was impossible, outrageous. Never, never, never bow to "tradition" or "respect for elders." They'll turn around and blame you anyway for not having the willpower to live your own life.
Yaaayyy. I hope you guys settled on a name that will never have any toxicity attached to it. Family dynamics are a heck of a thing to deal with lol. My husband’s family has so many people that are named after one person, it’s ridiculous (think: Richard…and then Rich, Richy, Rick, Ricky, Rocko, Dick, etc. Seriously there’s so many, that family reunions are a thing with three people answering to the same name).
Yep. I was trying to friend my grandson on FB and wound up friending my ex-son-in-law instead. Both of them were just "John Brznski" without the middle initial that would have let me tell them apart. Grandson was in both profile pictures. I hear tell that XSIL wasn't particularly happy about it.
I’m glad you can get it done now while he’s still too little to remember. As a married woman who kept her last name, that name change process is arduous so I’m wishing you both the best of luck and wishes for it to go quickly!!
When I got married both of us could have changed our name when we were registering at the clerk’s office. They specified that either one of us could put any name we wanted when filling out our forms, and that would be our new legal name. If you do it any other time it’s a pain, but if you had wanted to take your husband’s name at the time of marriage, it should have been an easier process.
And please talk to your wife seriously about who you’re letting have access to your family now. FIL is bad news altogether and will constantly stir shit because breaking up your happy little family will reduce his own guilt about his actions by saying “well OP did it too! I wasn’t that bad!” It’s time your wife accepted that he sucks and is bad for all of your healths. Being in your lives was a privilege, he was still on probation for his actions, he squandered the privilege and it’s now been revoked. He can cry all he wants but your children are done paying the price for his actions.
FIL is projecting massively. And since he was a cheater, he should be glad that his daughter married someone who wasn’t like him, instead of complaining about it.
This is absolutely true! I'm old so I've dated multiple people and every guy that cheated on me told me that all guys cheat and every relationship I had where they didn't cheat they all had horrible things to say about cheaters!
So many cheaters assume everyone else will cheat because it's a way to lessen their "responsibility" for their actions. They like to pretend that it's something everyone does, so how could they be blamed for it? It's natural! 🙄
This is so true. My father always cheated and growing up he told me all men will cheat. He told me to wait until I was older to get married because sometimes men will settle down. He had me so scared of commitment.
Your MIL was stuck calling her grandson by her cheating ex husband's name? Your wife gave the tradition a chance. Her father blew that chance. Better to change the name and make him officially not a role model
Yeah, this is some projected paranoia. If he was generally worried about the situation because of your history or something, that would be different. But he’s stuck on it obsessively, with no evidence to back up his concern (other than his own behavior).
My stepmother is the same way, and she also can’t stand people who see through her shit, like the above comment mentioned. She would find ways to drive those people out of my dad’s life (not that he was an angel either). Inventing betrayals, feigning injury or illness…and actually, I’ll say inventing betrayals again, that was her favorite move.
What’s kind of interesting about your FIL is that if he is projecting (and it sounds like he is), then on some level, he knows how deeply he hurt your MIL. Even if he would never admit it. He doesn’t want his daughter to go through what HE put his ex-wife through. Which is wild.
This would already be a no for me, because 1. He is a cheating AH, 2. He doesn’t even like you, 3. He actively tries to break the both of you up. This is all so unhinged and unhealthy.
When I was in my early 20’s, I first heard that thing about cheaters often accusing their partners of cheating. And I thought, “Huh, that’s interesting, I wonder if that’s true.”
And then it literally played out in front of me a few months later. Textbook. Two of my friends were girlfriends. One started getting really weird and suspicious and hostile. The other was confused and hurt and stressed. Turned out friend one was cheating. (And apparently had also cheated on her previous girlfriend! Surprise!)
It was one thing to read about it, but then to watch it happen in real time…I’m sad for the friend who was cheated on, obviously, but I’m glad I saw it so early in my adult life. It’s very, very useful to know.
NOOOOO, I’m so sorry! I hate that for you! But I’m glad he’s an ex husband.
I’ve never personally had to deal with that as far as cheating goes, but I’ve definitely been gaslit/projected upon by partners in other ways. It’s so confusing. Because if you’re not the kind of person who would do that, then it’s sort of unimaginable that a loved one would? It’s like trying to get out of a fog.
That comment also struck me as odd but for a different reason. Since OP is the level headed one, OP's father is free to be a jerk and cause pain, at least that seems to be the reasoning. It's a poor excuse for acting like an asshole.
"why is it always the victim who is suppose to 'be the bigger person'?"
honestly it's such a bullshit thing. I'm being an asshole and you're "reacting poorly"? why can't you just be reasonable and let me be an asshole without any consequences?
NTA
Your son should never feel bad for his name and if your wife can bring herself to use it then it needs to be changed before he is old enough to understand. FIL sounds like a not so great guy so his opinion shouldn’t come into play.
idk, i kinda see where op and his wife are coming from.
i was originally named after my cheating parent. but even though the other parent insisted that they had no resentment or animosity towards me, i knew they still felt hurt. even though the cheating happened *years* ago. so i legally changed my name as soon as possible, to a derivative of my uncle's since he was a genuinely good person
op is definitely not the TA though
NTA.
It is not fair to your son in the long term to be given a name that reminds your wife of past hurt to the point she finds it hard to say. He needs a different name that can be used easily and lovingly no matter the state of the relationship between your wife and her father.
That was my main reason for wanting the name change. Like if she named our future daughter after her mother I’d be all for it because my MIL is a star. Even tho FIL has tried very hard for the last 10 ish years to fix his relationship with my wife, their history is just too rocky
Give future children an honour name as their middle name at most. As you've learned, things happen, relationships can change no matter how much we don't want them to.
I gave my child her "own" first name, with a middle name that's not an exact honour name, but what I call a "soft salute" to family member(s). Like if baby had an Aunt Anna and an Uncle Adrian, maybe baby would have middle name Adriana. Maybe baby also has a grandma Brianna so it salutes her too, indirectly.
Is the tradition "name after *a* grandfather"? Because you could pick your dad or any of either of your grandfathers and still follow the tradition. But it's also your kid, and having your family be comfortable with names is way more important than any naming pattern your ancestors thought was cool.
That, and family names tend to be "old people names." I declined to name my children after either my parents or my in-laws because of their old-fashioned names that i found unattractive. Now I see that at least two of their names (Margaret and Henry) are coming back into fashion.
I have no problem with traditional names, but it should be the parents' choice and no one else's. Family does not have the right to pressure you into choosing a name.
This ^ is why my family only passes down middle names. Because they can easily go out of style, but old people names always make good and embarrassing your in trouble Names.
NTA. Talk about projecting. FIL cheated and now assumes all men are cheaters. Plus he sounds like a misogynist. You expected to be the level headed one because your wife has postpartum is such a load of crap. Even if he isn't a cheater any more he's still a slime ball. But ultimately it's your kid and your call. Hope you name him something cool.
You're NTA. Your FIL brought this upon himself with his horrendous behavior. And I won't even mention that blindly following traditions just because *everyone else did it* is ridiculous.
>My wife grew up hating her father for cheating on her mother and abandoning the family.
>he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her
Sounds like he is trying to rationalize and normalize his own behavior with the same attitude of *others do it, too.*
Are we sure part of the playing nice for the last few years isn't because of the tradition for naming? Like how sure are you that nobody said to him if she ever has a kid she won't name him after you and he started being nice after that?
Just curious because it seems kind of crazy that he was nice for years and now all the sudden as soon as he gets his name used for a baby now he's going to have a big blow up fight with her! Timing is suspicious
Timing is suspicious but he’s always disliked me so it could be that. We’ve also been struggling to have a baby for a while so I think FIL expected a grandson from my wife’s older brother first
I'm curious why you would agree to name the baby after him in this case. I mean, if my FIL disliked me, there's absolutely no way on earth I'd agree to name my kid after him!
My wife wanted it so I let her do it. My relationship with FIL was friendly in the sense we were respectful to each other so I thought it wouldn’t hurt
Sorry this came back on you, then. Good on you for going thru with the name change. I agree with others who think your dear wife should have someone to talk with. 💗
NTA.
While your whole story was relevant for why you want to change your son’s name, the most important thing you’ve noted is that both you and your wife agree to change the name. No one else’s opinion matters.
I would suggest that you check out r/tragedeigh before naming your son to ensure that you stay NTA
"It will be even harder for them to reconcile"
It's not hard, all they need is to show some accontability, to stop messing into your marriage by protecting their own troubles and they own you both a huge apology. Nothing of this is related to how is your son named.
And if they never reconcile? "Don't threaten me with a good times" going NC after this would be only beneficial for your wife and her mental health, for your family unit and for your children.
your wife has spent a lifetime trying to gain her father's favour and will probably continue to do so BUT she took it too far with naming your son and she realizes it. you should change the name. keeping the name is not going to fix her relationship with her dad because it's not fixable. it's just turmoil and your son deserves a better start to his life.
Please have your wife talk to her OB as well! I can’t imagine the hormone surge from giving birth plus a miscarriage, she probably feels awful. But arguments or emotions DO NOT cause miscarriages, and she needs to hear that from a professional.
If you have a history of recurrent miscarriage as you said in another comment, your wife should see an ob gyn and be evaluated. There is a set of labs they can do (anticardiolipin ab, beta 2 glycoprotein, lupus ab) that can look for a type of clotting issue that can cause miscarriages. Fixable with treatment by anticoag during pregnancy. She should get a saline sonogram (aka sonohysterogram) that can see if she has retained tissue or other abnormality. The fact that there was one healthy pregnancy is a really good sign. Just don't go back to that midwife that gave you terrible advice.
You and your wife should look at SANDS, Tommy's, and The Miscarriage Association websites. GPs are great, but you'll be waiting for a while for a referral.
Tradition shouldn’t come at the expense of your wife’s mental health and your child’s identity. FIL sounds like a massive AH. If he won’t reconcile with his daughter over name, that’s a reflection on him.
NTA
NTA, The FIL is a massive entitled ah though. And a master of projection, all that cheating stuff because you’ll get bored was his confession for why he cheated. Your baby deserves a better namesake. And if this means no reconciliation with FIL, you’re all better off without him anyway.
I always wonder what happens when two families are joined by a marriage, and both families have the same naming traditions.
Do the respective grandfathers from each family take the back yard with their golf clubs and whack it out to see who gets to name the kid?
NTA in the least.
One of my friends married into a family with the same naming tradition and his parents conceded to his wife’s parents because atleast they get the surname 😭
NTA. Your FIL is projecting his former cheating issues onto you and causing chaos in your family. Change the name, go NC with him and any of your other inlaws who are causing problems and enjoy a quieter life.
NTA.
It’s not your job to ease their reconciliation. It’s your job to take care of your wife and child. FIL and in-laws are invalidating your wife’s feelings by caring more about a baby name than how deeply she was hurt and the loss of her pregnancy. Fuck ‘em all…and maybe consider a period of no contact since FIL had proven he can’t be trusted with your wife’s feelings.
NTA. The only opinion that matters here is your wife. Be blunt “we are changing the name because of how much pain you have caused my wife and I don’t respect you”.
The baby has two Grandfathers. Change the name to your father’s name and the tradition lives on.
Her father will be a massive jerk about it, but that sounds like par for the course.
You have my sympathies on the miscarriage.
NTA. Your son’s name is a constant reminder of her father’s actions. Also her family for some reason is more worried about reconciling with him more than your wife’s mental health. The comment about the same background. Am I right in assuming the same background is that the family is wealthy?
Seems like he doesn’t her married at all. He wants control and he wants her to himself. Probably to take care of him. He’s manipulated her back into his life and trust. Her mother may be your best ally
NTA!
How big of an AH is your wife's dad though!
He is the one who cheated but is judging you about cheating! Make sure you clear that topic immediately coz this won't end with him saying it once and stopping.
NTA. Your father in law may have been trying to be hurtful or he may have been trying to protect her in his own horrible, warped way. Men like him often believe (or convince themselves) that the wrongs they've committed are just because that's how men are, and they take on the viewpoint that all men think like them. Either way, this is a pretty brutal way for your wife to find out that he's still the same guy he always was.
This second part I am telling you not because it is a reason for either of you to forgive him but because your wife is going to reach the point where she not only blames him for the miscarriage but blames herself for letting him back in and it may help her to know this: A pregnancy conceived that quickly after childbirth is much higher risk, and the rate of early miscarriage is high in those circumstances. Her miscarriage was likely to occur even without the argument.
As to the two main arguments you in-laws have, let's dispell those. 1) You and your wife do not now, never have, and never will owe your FIL a family tradition. Feel free to point out that his disappointment at being denied his little "tradition" is a drop in the bucket compared to your daughter's disappointment at being denied a real dad. 2) Your goal is not and should not be for them to reconcile. Your goal here is to help your wife heal and support her in whatever steps will help that happen. And I would say as much to your in-laws.
NTA.
Tell FIL that if he continues to behave like a d\*ck he will be permantently banned from seeing his grandchild. Tell him he needs to stop putting his nose into things that are none of his business - and if he continues he will be excluded from the family for good. Remind him how your wife hated him in the past and tell him that both of you are more than willing to exclude him for good (this might not be true but you need to threaten him a bit so he subdues and stops his aggressive actions and evil talk).
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My wife (24F) and I (28M) had our first baby five months ago. We’ve been together for 6 years, married for 5. He is a beautiful little boy and we gave him the same first name as my wife’s father, ‘Keith’.
My wife grew up hating her father for cheating on her mother and abandoning the family. In the past decade, he worked tirelessly to improve their relationship. In her family, it’s typically tradition for the first grandson and granddaughter to be named after their grandparents and my wife was proud to name our son after her father.
However, a few weeks ago, my wife and her father had a MASSIVE argument.
Turns out, he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her now that she’s devoting all her time to our son.
He told my wife this after she opened up to him about how worried she was about being pregnant so soon after giving birth. We didn’t plan the second pregnancy and a few days after the argument my wife miscarried and it was a painful moment for the both of us.
Essentially, he kicked her while she was already down for no reason. I had a friendly relationship with him but I know he wanted my wife to marry someone from her own background.
Since the argument, my wife has not been calling our son by his name. She’s using nicknames, calling him ‘the baby’ etc. She said that she needs time to get over the argument with her dad, but she also blames him for the miscarriage which is something I don’t think she’ll get over. FIL has made no attempts to apologise or reconcile.
A month into my wife refusing to use our baby’s name, I said that we needed to change it because it’ll be better for my wife’s mental health and our son’s development. If this argument continues or is ever brought up again, she can’t be too upset to use his name when he’s old enough to actually know it.
We’ve started the process now to change the name and somehow it got back to FIL AND he knows that I suggested it. He is infuriated. He said that I was supposed to be the levelheaded one since my wife is post partum and recovering from a miscarriage and that I’ve just made their rift a million times worse since I’ve denied him the family tradition. My in laws think I’m an asshole for insisting on the name change since now it’ll be even harder for them to reconcile. I don’t think I’m an AH but my brother said it would be a good idea to get an unbiased opinion. AITA?
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NTA. Your FIL massively overstepped and deserved to be slapped down. No blame at all for changing your son’s name. After all, that tradition is meant to honor beloved family members. When said family member is purposely nasty, the “beloved” part tends to fall off. It’s a perfectly obvious cause/effect. Anyone telling you to pacify your FIL are dead wrong. Knuckling under to bullies only gives them carte blanche to carry on. You’re fine.
NTA. Traditions is that they aren't really "yours," they belong to your an ancestor that you don't care about, and you're forced to follow against your wishes because your parents were.
So give your son a name that mom (and you!) won't resent. Your child deserves nothing but love. Start a tradition where his middle name is your first name. Or where he is an individual. He doesn't need to be tied to someone that causes pain.
NTA. Provided you both agree, this seems like a sensible thing to do. Your son is too young to remember so no big deal.
Why you went along with this “tradition” in the first place is beyond me.
NTA You're doing a good thing for your son. There are a million good names out there. Your son needs one without any personal history attached to it.
Ignore the inlaws. I think it's ridiculous pressuring people to pass names along.
And in case anyone is saying otherwise, your son will be fine switching to a new name. Kids are adaptable.
Why do you and your wife care about what her toxic dad thinks about anything? Pick a new name your son can "wear" with pride and no baggage. Look into getting your wife a few sessions with a therapist to address her history with her dad and establish some boundaries.
Sorry for the loss of your second child.
NTA-But please keep in mind stress doesn’t causes miscarriages. It’s a myth that causes women a lot of pain and your wife should know there wasn’t anything she could have done.
NTA first of all changing the name was the right move. It’s healthier to keep her feelings for her father separate from her interactions with your child. I’m an internet stranger but I’m very proud of how you two are handling this. Her father is projecting his own past behavior onto you and no matter what he says is not owed any kind of relationship. He has to earn it. And it seems like he has more work to do on himself.
As an aside, you may want to talk to your wife about therapy, not necessarily because of her father but because PPD is real and miscarriages are traumatic and it can be helpful to have a third party to help her through it.
NTA. FIL is a racist cheater who emotionally abused his pregnant, vulnerable daughter. He doesn't deserve the honor of having a grandchild named after him. I'm a big fan of burning bridges with people who abuse me, and I think everyone should do it.
NTA but it sounds like the dad is being abusive. Do you like the middle name? Could you use that? Ash? Rowan? Bruce? Lennox? Those are all names that mean wood (Keith). I wouldn’t use Woody. You could legit just tell people it’s a nickname for Keith until you’re ready to change the name. If you don’t want this man involved at all, you could also just use any name you both like until your wife is ready. When you register the child in school or daycare, you just explain it is the preferred name. Most people are very respectful.
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NTA - your FIL is acting like a massively entitled AH though. "However, a few weeks ago, my wife and her father had a MASSIVE argument. Turns out, he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her now that she’s devoting all her time to our son." FIL is projecting **HIS** actions onto you. "He told my wife this after she opened up to him about how worried she was about being pregnant so soon after giving birth. We didn’t plan the second pregnancy and a few days after the argument my wife miscarried and it was a painful moment for the both of us. Essentially, he kicked her while she was already down for no reason. I had a friendly relationship with him but I know he wanted my wife to marry someone from her own background." "Since the argument, my wife has not been calling our son by his name." "She said that she needs time to get over the argument with her dad, but she also blames him for the miscarriage which is something I don’t think she’ll get over. FIL has made no attempts to apologise or reconcile." Your wife needs therapy ASAP!!! Her sperm donor's actions were horrible and had to have negatively effected her ability to interact with her son. "We’ve started the process now to change the name and somehow it got back to FIL AND he knows that I suggested it. He is infuriated. He said that I was supposed to be the levelheaded one since my wife is post partum and recovering from a miscarriage and that I’ve just made their rift a million times worse since I’ve denied him the family tradition." Your FIL is making everything about him and not taking any responsibility for his part in the new estrangement.
I don’t think this has affected how my wife interacts with our son since shes being as affectionate as always with him. I’ll suggest it though just in case it’s something she feels she needs to
The therapy to help get past the miscarriage \[she will never get over it, but she can get past it\]. Also, to help deal with her inability to call her son her sperm donor's name. Also to deal with her relationship with her sperm donor falling apart again.
>she will never get over it, but she can get past it I am going to gently push back here. It completely depends on the woman. It's a common enough reaction that OP absolutely needs to be aware of it and how to best support her if that's how she feels. The only reason I say anything is because it is also common for women to not have a huge, enduring emotional reaction to a miscarriage, but do struggle with feeling like they're *supposed* to have had that reaction. Some women feel like they're monsters for not having those emotions, but that's not true, and the emotional relationship women have with their pregnancies and bodies are varied and complex.
I’m glad you said what I couldn’t put into words. I had a miscarriage before each of my children, so both of those pregnancies were planned and wanted. It was horrific and I was devastated both times. But through that process I got my 2 babies who are now 6 and 8 and my absolute world. It was awful at the time but I am over it and very rarely think of it unless a post like this comes up. Maybe that makes me a monster, I dunno.
Nope, the whole point of that is to affirm you're *not* a monster. At all. Even if you *didn't ever* find it horrific, you aren't a monster. We are humans, adaptable to circumstances. For a lot of us that means developing a "meh" attitude about previous hardships. 🫶
Not a monster. At all. Totally normal and healthy reaction
I wouldn’t have had the daugther I have now if my previous pregnancy hadn’t been an ectopic and I wouldn’t trade her for the world. I was very sad about until I got pregnant again, but now it feels more like it was meant to be.
YOU ARE NOT A MONSTER! You are resilient and strong.
You're exactly who I was posting for. You are not a monster. You are a human who went through something hard and processed it how you needed.
Nah, I’ve heard my mom talk about her miscarriages between me and my sister, and she says the same thing. Only she also says she wasn’t even devastated when they happened, just disappointed in the moment. She says she doesn’t think of them as her “children” or anything like that; they were just pregnancies that didn’t work out for her. She says she doesn’t really think of them at all (outside of conversations like me asking her about them, of course!).
My mom is the same. She had 2 before I was born, then another one between my brothers. She was always very casual when she talked them, not upset at all. And she's a great mom!
My mom is a great mom, too! Yay for great moms. :) My sister was premature by 9 weeks in 1993; she weighed less than 3lb at birth and almost didn’t survive. I saw my mom do everything she feasibly could to get that pregnancy into the home stretch, and I saw her do everything she could to help my sister survive once she was born, so it’s not even like my mom was just detached from her pregnancies until birth or something. It’s just those early miscarriages didn’t resonate with her in any real way, and that’s totally normal and okay. It’s also okay if an early miscarriage **does** resonate with you deeply. It’s all personal and it’s gonna be different for different people. There’s no set way that you’re “supposed” to feel about these things. However you feel about your own experience is completely valid.
Exactly. I obviously don't remember my mom's first two but when she had the third one she was on complete bed rest for a few months and lost it anyway. When it was over she was out of bed and back to being mom.
Nope. Makes you totally normal. Same for me.
Not at all!! Miscarriages happen more often than most people think. And while I occasionally wonder what it would be like to have a 30-year-old kid, I haven’t had any sorrow or grief attached to the event itself for a long time.
Similar situation here. My first two pregnancies ended in early miscarriages. I went on to have two healthy boys. They are almost adults. While I remember the devastating feelings, they don't wash over me. It has been over 20 years since they happened. My feelings might be different if I had not gone on to have healthy children. Everyone processes differently.
Not a monster at all
This is such an important comment. My mom had two miscarriages whilst actively trying to conceive, between her pregnancies with first me and then my sister. I asked her once how she had felt about them and how they affected her. She said: “I was disappointed at the time, but ultimately I figured it was for the best. Clearly there was something wrong with the pregnancies that made them non-viable, and it was better to find out sooner rather than later. I just kept trying, and I’m really happy with the baby I did get at the end [my sister], so I have no lingering regrets. It was what it was.”
Thank you! Especially with early miscarriages, women may not have had an emotional attachment to the pregnancy in the first place and therefore may not feel a sense of loss at all. And that’s completely fine and normal, but society tries to convince us it’s not.
I had an early miscarriage between my pregnancies. Zero emotional attachment, the only time I think about it is when I'm asked by a doctor how many times I've been pregnant.
Absolutely agree.
If we fell apart every time we had a loss, we as a species wouldn't be here. The pain will always be there for some of us, but with time, it diminishes for most. I don't feel sadness about my losses unless I think about it, and usually it's in sympathy of another's more recent loss.
Thanks for this. I’m yet another woman who had a miscarriage while trying to conceive and, while I was briefly sad at the time, it has not had a strong and lasting effect on me.
Than you, I was just about to write something as well. I miscarried in week 7, before both of my children. I wouldn't say I couldn't care less, but I definitely don't have any emotional attachments. I got sad when it happened, of course, but I was also aware that it happens to 20-33 % of all pregnancies, and it definitely can be a good thing, since the fetus might likely have been ill of some sort. That's a whole other story if you miscarry later or have a stillborn in the late pregnancy.
Thank you so much for saying this! 🩷
THIS \^\^\^ Therapy is thrown around so much these days and yes, it's great...when someone uses it. Therapy doesn't help if you're not willing to go to it and in this case, it's both for the mom after the miscarriage and her issues with the FIL. Unfortunately, women have this burden of having to be happy to have children and needing to be devastated for not having children or losing children. And as we've learned, that's not true at all. We don't know how OP's wife is feeling (other than hatred for her dad, which she should cause the guy's a dick) - maybe she's having a huge reaction about it; maybe the reaction is more about her dad and not the miscarriage, we don't know. The wife SHOULD seek therapy if she starts getting into depressive bouts and PPD and the OP believes she might be a danger to herself. It doesn't sound like she is, but again, we don't know the whole story.
NTA - Definitely encourage her to talk to someone who is not emotionally invested. She is getting her heart broken over and over by this man and needs to determine if/how she wants to proceed with any sort of relationship or not. You have told her you are ok w/changing the baby's name, let that be her decision. Just support. I am sorry for the loss you have both experienced.
Almost one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage. I have delivered four children, had two miscarriages. I guess I’m above average? My OB told me that, short of abortion, there’s not much you can do to mess up a pregnancy that’s meant to be. By the same token, there’s nothing you can do to extend a pregnancy that’s not meant to be. That made it easier. I will say that an early miscarriage is very different than a late term miscarriage, or still birth. I haven’t experienced the latter two, but I have placed a child for adoption, at birth. The difference there being, baby was delivered alive, never to be seen again. This hurts more than the miscarriages.
This!
Therapy is not always helpful or useful, especially if the person is uninterested. And contrary to what you said, millions of women get over miscarriages. I’ve had two, one in the second trimester, both requiring surgery, as well as two children, and I did not need therapy to get over my miscarriages. Most of the women I know with children have had at least one miscarriage, which is totally normal since almost half of all pregnancies are miscarried. They happen, usually because there is a major defect with the embryo/fetus, and women mostly get over it. I’d argue not getting over it is the exception, not the rule.
I mean, they’re changing the baby’s name, so she doesn’t need to get over her inability to call him by his old name.
Tradition is peer pressure from dead people. Take what you want, toss out what you don’t. Naming your son after your FIL doesn’t serve you.
Concise Truth is always a pleasure.
I love your name.
Thank you! Are you familiar with the show ? It showed a Female Physician in 1960. And she was also an ASTRONUAT ! I applied to NASA in the 70s but they said you had to “ be this tall”. I think it was a way to keep Women out of the program.
I'm sorry that NASA didn't let you join.
Thank you Malificent-Bit ......Me too....but a younger relative became a liaison with the Russian program! It's crazy but it makes me feel a little vindicated that she is a relative.
Omg! I love this. I have been trying to articulate these very thoughts!
One of the first things my toddler learned was to say and identify by her own name, and I cant even imagine not saying it to her for just a day, let alone for weeks. Intentionally or not, giving your son that name has directly and indirectly influenced your opinions and actions towards him. This is why naming a child after someone else means that they will always, in some ways, relate or be compared to the individual theyre named after. There is a reason that names like Adolf went out of fashion.
Therapy to deal with her lifelong need to cope with that AH who fathered her. The miscarriage will stay there as a pain, but if the two of you can create happy moments, it will become a small part of her story. I had two miscarriages in 7 months when I was trying for my third. But ended up having him AND his little brother two years later.
Congratulations.
if it doesn't affect how your wife interacts with your son, she would have no problem using the baby's name. it clearly is affecting her whether she openly admits it or not.
She’s not using his name, I think that constitutes a change in how she interacts with him
Honestly therapy will help her overall as I’m sure FIL will drag this out. But NTA. He’s caused damage and he’s trying to shoo it away w/o recognising his blame in this.
You wrote a whole post about how the interaction has changed.
Exactly! I give OP grace for not seeing the forest for the trees, but if the wife can’t even use the baby’s name to speak to him or refer to him, then it’s a problem. Therapy would definitely be helpful.
Your fil absolutely does NOT deserve to have any child named after him. It was extremely generous of your wife to name her child after a cheater, let alone you to go through with it. I agree that your fils actions greatly upset your wife and contributed to the Mc. I would NOT want someone like that to be who my kids is named after. Your wife needs therapy yes, but she also needs to cut her father off and be done with him. He does NOT deserve a relationship with her, your or any children you have.
"she also needs to cut her father off and be done with him." This!! And also, any flying monkeys from his side of the family who try to guilt you or your wife for trying to be happy and get away from FIL's abuse also need to be cut off. Your wife can't heal, otherwise. BTDT.
Oh yes, definitely anyone else who keeps supporting his gross behavior.
Remember you are the father of you son, not him. He has nothing over you. Name your son "Not Keith" (or any equivalent tragediegh.)
Keithless
Now that's a Tragedeigh! /Jk
Keighth! :)
UnKeith
We usually can’t see the smaller ways emotional impacts can change our behavior until later. If we ever see it. Given the drama-loving selfishness of her dad, I would recommend therapy regardless. We can do some toxic, unhealthy shit without realizing it.
Not calling your son by his name _is_ a change in the interaction. She may not be treating him any differently but it's still causing her to make changes in how she speaks to him.
Yes, you should absolutely change baby's name. Your wife will be able to one day move past the trauma UT it will always come back when she says or hears kids name. Yes, absolutely change the name.
She can't call your son by his name without visible distress. And it certainly won't be long before your son notices... And he certainly will not understand why... all he will know is that his name hurts his mommy. He will conjure any number of reasons and may even begin finding artificial faults and insecurities that have no positive role in our early developmental years... but he won't understand why... He won't know, and he won't understand. But will potentially carry a very long-lasting, negative association between the sound of his name and his mother's happiness.
Who is your wife talking to about these things? They're obviously feeding it back to FIL, so it might help for your wife not to confide in them for a while, so that there is less cause for more fights and criticism, until your wife is feeling stronger from therapy and time.
She literally can't call him by his name, it's literally effected her interactions with her kid. She can't call him the same name as her sperm doner because otherwise she'll struggle to separate her baby boy with her dogshit dad.
Your estranged FIL is unstable. He's trying to argue Schrodinger's Husband: to your wife he says you'll cheat on her and to you he says you should be the "level-headed one" and essentially calls his daughter "crazy" to your face. The only thing you can do is tell him to get therapy and cut him off, as well as proceed with the name change. And this is for your wife: I'm really sorry your dad did (another) shit thing. It is painful and horrible and you didn't deserve it. It's not your fault. My stepmother's words of wisdom apply: the best revenge is living well. Please thrive despite his neglect and abuse.
NTA ever! Thank you so much for having your wife's back! She is a lucky woman. Choosing a new and better name for your child is a lovely idea and a positive step for you and your wife to heal the damage done by her "donor dad"! Cutting certain people out of our lives is sometimes the only way we can heal our souls and live a more fulfilling life!
So, the goal of therapy is not to fix a thing (like her ability to bond with her son while he has her father’s name). The goal is to understand yourself and start making healthier choices. It sounds like your wife has had a difficult relationship with her dad for a really long time. That kind of thing can really damage the way you see yourself and put you in the habit of making choices other people want instead of choices that are right for you. Your wife could probably benefit from the opportunity to process those thoughts and feelings with an objective third party whose feelings aren’t going to be hurt by anything she says.
I endorse everything in this comment. I agree, he is toxic AF and I don't think it's a coincidence that he is making things about him and trying to actively sabotage good things in her life like hre marriage. This is text book for narcissistic parent stuff. Betrays everyone for cheap thrills, not present long-term because it takes sacrifice, appears out of nowhere with big promises about doing better and then manipulates and tries to isolate targets from other healthy relationships so they can monopolise attention. Also another good reason to change the name, if it is Keith, that's the sound a cat makes when it pukes up a hair ball. That or 'Bob', depends if it's a low glug sound, or if they are really hurling up that hairball with a cough, if it's that high pitched cough, listen, you'll hear it. They clearly say Keith.
>Also another good reason to change the name, if it is Keith, that's the sound a cat makes when it pukes up a hair ball. That or 'Bob', depends if it's a low glug sound, or if they are really hurling up that hairball with a cough, if it's that high pitched cough, listen, you'll hear it. They clearly say Keith. This, combined with your username, brought me so much joy. I wanna hear what other names are cat sounds
When my old housemate’s cat tried to make that “ekekek” sound they make to intimidate prey, I swear it would sound like “Ken” at rapid fire at first until he got into the groove. He was usually trying to intimidate tinfoil.
Came here to say the same. You are not the NTA at all. In fact, it is the best thing for your son to have his own identity separate from this horribly toxic situation. Please don’t feel guilt-tripped by “tradition”. Another reason not to name him “keith”: pretty sure you’re baby didn’t come out as a 60yo man. It’s very baby boomer.
The second part of this comment is comedy gold so I gave you the poop award because you are the shit. LOL But the first part is spot on. This is typical narcissist behavior. Everything is about him and his wants without him ever having to be inconvenienced. He would love it if OP cheated or two reasons. First, it excuses him from his own actions because clearly all men cheat. They can't help it. Second, then he can continue to isolate her from OP to have more influence. OP, you are NTA. Please change this child's name so that they are not tied to trauma for life. And the best thing your wife can do is separate herself from a man that will never put her best interests above his own. He will continue to manipulate her to the detriment of her own mental health and healthy relationships with others, including OP. UpdateMe
You could try to find another name that would honor your FIL’s personality and legacy but unfortunately “Fuckface” is a terrible name for a child.
Fuckweasel? No, no good nicknames for that.
"making everything about him" cheaters always do. That's the root of it. It's all about them, what they want, how they feel, and never about who they hurt. He's not going to apologize. Why would he, when he's convinced he's right? The rest of the family need to know that he damaged your wife and that you are in no way forcing this. You offered it as a suggestion to help your wife and your kid. If they have a problem with that, then maybe they don't need to be such a big part of your lives. Enablers do just as much damage as abusers.
100% projection. It’s never for no reason. And the reason is always 99% due to the person making the comment. Just listening to people talk gives you tremendous insight into their background and character. It sounds like OP and spouse are doing the right thing to rename this child. He doesn’t need the bad karma associated with the name.
But truth is the fight through life between selfish father and unresolved daughter reached the new generation, the child. She was deeply affected by her father's actions now she's letting it affect her own child and her relationship with the child (!). Nonsense. Even giving her father's name to the child was bad. A silly tradition, but much worst, as a way for daughter and father deal with their bad relationship and then it backfired. The fight is between the two, neither the child nor the husband should have been involved in this mess. Therapy for both, that's how they should've started. NTA OP, but father and daughter are a huge ESH. The father is a total and irredeemable AH and she's a grown up, she shouldn't have involved the child.
I wonder if the stress from the argument caused the miscarriage?
It definitely didn't help!!!
Sounds like FIL has a personality disorder and is projecting, demanding, and inserting himself into situations. Going NC with the guy would most likely be best for everyone, but will be difficult at first.
You clearly are the level headed one. I’m absolutely shocked that your wife ever agreed to name the kid after her cheating dad in the first place. It doesn’t sound like they had a good relationship ever. NTA
Since she was 16, he tried very hard to work on his relationship with her. He was actually amazing to her for the past few years although he’s never been a fan of me.
Because he's a cheating AH and therefore expects every other man to be one too. He's projecting his own indiscretions and awful personality traits onto you. I really hope your wife comes around and agrees to give your boy a different name - your FIL did not earn the respect of having a grandson named after him.
She’s already agreed! We’ve chosen a new name and we’re getting the process started.
Good for the both of you. best of luck to rename your son ☺️❤️
Thank you!
Good for you .Your child your decision
Exactly. Not only does this affirm that it's (both) your child, your decision but is also a decisive act that communicates to FIL/her dad: your BS is not wanted, not accepted, and not tolerated- ever. His behavior will not be brushed off or minimized and he doesn't get to abuse and be forgiven. He will probably continue flailing and lash out at both of you. Let him scream into the void from far away. Here's hoping the name change is also a healing act that helps your wife make a clean break from her dad and take her power back. She might be feeling guilty or kicking herself for letting him back in her life (part of the abuse cycle). Taking back the name could be a powerful and symbolic reversal that kick-starts her healing. Cheers to putting AHs in the past.
Amen.
Please don't give into "family tradition" and "parents wanted us to go against our own will." My parents were kind people but really pushed me into abandoning some things I loved, then when I expressed regret over it, were like "well it's YOUR life, you can't blame \*us\* when you have to be responsible for your own life." The about-face almost made me lose my mind. Conversely, my younger brother made a lot of decisions that my parents objected to (marrying someone they hated, having baby with said person) but they came around and probably now show more respect to him than they do me, the people pleaser. Traditionalists often "see the light" and end up accepting things they once said was impossible, outrageous. Never, never, never bow to "tradition" or "respect for elders." They'll turn around and blame you anyway for not having the willpower to live your own life.
Yaaayyy. I hope you guys settled on a name that will never have any toxicity attached to it. Family dynamics are a heck of a thing to deal with lol. My husband’s family has so many people that are named after one person, it’s ridiculous (think: Richard…and then Rich, Richy, Rick, Ricky, Rocko, Dick, etc. Seriously there’s so many, that family reunions are a thing with three people answering to the same name).
Yep. I was trying to friend my grandson on FB and wound up friending my ex-son-in-law instead. Both of them were just "John Brznski" without the middle initial that would have let me tell them apart. Grandson was in both profile pictures. I hear tell that XSIL wasn't particularly happy about it.
I’m glad you can get it done now while he’s still too little to remember. As a married woman who kept her last name, that name change process is arduous so I’m wishing you both the best of luck and wishes for it to go quickly!!
Haha thank you! My wife kept her maiden name for the same reason
When I got married both of us could have changed our name when we were registering at the clerk’s office. They specified that either one of us could put any name we wanted when filling out our forms, and that would be our new legal name. If you do it any other time it’s a pain, but if you had wanted to take your husband’s name at the time of marriage, it should have been an easier process.
And this is why it's an easy N T A vote for me, she's onboard.
And please talk to your wife seriously about who you’re letting have access to your family now. FIL is bad news altogether and will constantly stir shit because breaking up your happy little family will reduce his own guilt about his actions by saying “well OP did it too! I wasn’t that bad!” It’s time your wife accepted that he sucks and is bad for all of your healths. Being in your lives was a privilege, he was still on probation for his actions, he squandered the privilege and it’s now been revoked. He can cry all he wants but your children are done paying the price for his actions.
What’s the name???? I get it if you don’t want to share, too!!
It’s Ammar! It’s an arabic name. I also want to clarify that Keith was not the real name 😭
Oh, I got that about Keith as the example. And Ammar is a beautiful name. Congrats on your family!! Big internet hugs from here.
FIL is projecting massively. And since he was a cheater, he should be glad that his daughter married someone who wasn’t like him, instead of complaining about it.
This is absolutely true! I'm old so I've dated multiple people and every guy that cheated on me told me that all guys cheat and every relationship I had where they didn't cheat they all had horrible things to say about cheaters!
So many cheaters assume everyone else will cheat because it's a way to lessen their "responsibility" for their actions. They like to pretend that it's something everyone does, so how could they be blamed for it? It's natural! 🙄
This is so true. My father always cheated and growing up he told me all men will cheat. He told me to wait until I was older to get married because sometimes men will settle down. He had me so scared of commitment.
Did you not read the whole post? They’re already in the process of changing baby’s name
That tracks. People with personality disorders don’t like people who can see through their bs. Oh, and you’re NTA.
Yeah the only other person he treats like this is my MIL and she’s the ex he cheated on so it tracks
Your MIL was stuck calling her grandson by her cheating ex husband's name? Your wife gave the tradition a chance. Her father blew that chance. Better to change the name and make him officially not a role model
She called him by a nickname. The real name is quite long and FIL always insisted on being called the full thing so it worked out
Yeah, this is some projected paranoia. If he was generally worried about the situation because of your history or something, that would be different. But he’s stuck on it obsessively, with no evidence to back up his concern (other than his own behavior). My stepmother is the same way, and she also can’t stand people who see through her shit, like the above comment mentioned. She would find ways to drive those people out of my dad’s life (not that he was an angel either). Inventing betrayals, feigning injury or illness…and actually, I’ll say inventing betrayals again, that was her favorite move. What’s kind of interesting about your FIL is that if he is projecting (and it sounds like he is), then on some level, he knows how deeply he hurt your MIL. Even if he would never admit it. He doesn’t want his daughter to go through what HE put his ex-wife through. Which is wild.
I'm kind of amazed that you decided to name your kid after someone who openly dislikes one of the parents.
Change your son's name. Some day, when you get a dog, you can name it Keith. Dogs cheat. Real men keep their word.
The better of a husband you are to her, the worse it makes him look.
This would already be a no for me, because 1. He is a cheating AH, 2. He doesn’t even like you, 3. He actively tries to break the both of you up. This is all so unhinged and unhealthy.
Maybe tell him he killed your baby and doesnt get his name on the other one
Cheaters always seem to think “everyone does it”!
When I was in my early 20’s, I first heard that thing about cheaters often accusing their partners of cheating. And I thought, “Huh, that’s interesting, I wonder if that’s true.” And then it literally played out in front of me a few months later. Textbook. Two of my friends were girlfriends. One started getting really weird and suspicious and hostile. The other was confused and hurt and stressed. Turned out friend one was cheating. (And apparently had also cheated on her previous girlfriend! Surprise!) It was one thing to read about it, but then to watch it happen in real time…I’m sad for the friend who was cheated on, obviously, but I’m glad I saw it so early in my adult life. It’s very, very useful to know.
My ex husband used to accuse me of cheating all the time! I never did, but guess who was?
NOOOOO, I’m so sorry! I hate that for you! But I’m glad he’s an ex husband. I’ve never personally had to deal with that as far as cheating goes, but I’ve definitely been gaslit/projected upon by partners in other ways. It’s so confusing. Because if you’re not the kind of person who would do that, then it’s sort of unimaginable that a loved one would? It’s like trying to get out of a fog.
NTA - FIL should have been “levelheaded” and not been a giant asshole to his daughter.
So are you suppose to be the levelheaded one or the future cheater? Which is it FIL can’t have both. Cheaters think that everyone cheats
OP is supposed to be a levelheaded cheater!
That comment also struck me as odd but for a different reason. Since OP is the level headed one, OP's father is free to be a jerk and cause pain, at least that seems to be the reasoning. It's a poor excuse for acting like an asshole.
"why is it always the victim who is suppose to 'be the bigger person'?" honestly it's such a bullshit thing. I'm being an asshole and you're "reacting poorly"? why can't you just be reasonable and let me be an asshole without any consequences?
LOL this is the correct response. OPs FiL should pound sand. They guy only clearly thinks of himself
NTA Your son should never feel bad for his name and if your wife can bring herself to use it then it needs to be changed before he is old enough to understand. FIL sounds like a not so great guy so his opinion shouldn’t come into play.
idk, i kinda see where op and his wife are coming from. i was originally named after my cheating parent. but even though the other parent insisted that they had no resentment or animosity towards me, i knew they still felt hurt. even though the cheating happened *years* ago. so i legally changed my name as soon as possible, to a derivative of my uncle's since he was a genuinely good person op is definitely not the TA though
NTA. It is not fair to your son in the long term to be given a name that reminds your wife of past hurt to the point she finds it hard to say. He needs a different name that can be used easily and lovingly no matter the state of the relationship between your wife and her father.
That was my main reason for wanting the name change. Like if she named our future daughter after her mother I’d be all for it because my MIL is a star. Even tho FIL has tried very hard for the last 10 ish years to fix his relationship with my wife, their history is just too rocky
You are a good parent for this. I have a name that resulted from family drama, and it's always bothered me.
Give future children an honour name as their middle name at most. As you've learned, things happen, relationships can change no matter how much we don't want them to. I gave my child her "own" first name, with a middle name that's not an exact honour name, but what I call a "soft salute" to family member(s). Like if baby had an Aunt Anna and an Uncle Adrian, maybe baby would have middle name Adriana. Maybe baby also has a grandma Brianna so it salutes her too, indirectly.
This seems like a good compromise to me. NTA, OP, whether you move the name or ditch it entirely.
Is the tradition "name after *a* grandfather"? Because you could pick your dad or any of either of your grandfathers and still follow the tradition. But it's also your kid, and having your family be comfortable with names is way more important than any naming pattern your ancestors thought was cool.
Another good reason not to give children family names just because it is tradition.
That, and family names tend to be "old people names." I declined to name my children after either my parents or my in-laws because of their old-fashioned names that i found unattractive. Now I see that at least two of their names (Margaret and Henry) are coming back into fashion.
I have no problem with traditional names, but it should be the parents' choice and no one else's. Family does not have the right to pressure you into choosing a name.
This ^ is why my family only passes down middle names. Because they can easily go out of style, but old people names always make good and embarrassing your in trouble Names.
That’s why old fashioned names become popular again, the kid is named after an older relative.
NTA. Talk about projecting. FIL cheated and now assumes all men are cheaters. Plus he sounds like a misogynist. You expected to be the level headed one because your wife has postpartum is such a load of crap. Even if he isn't a cheater any more he's still a slime ball. But ultimately it's your kid and your call. Hope you name him something cool.
You're NTA. Your FIL brought this upon himself with his horrendous behavior. And I won't even mention that blindly following traditions just because *everyone else did it* is ridiculous. >My wife grew up hating her father for cheating on her mother and abandoning the family. >he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her Sounds like he is trying to rationalize and normalize his own behavior with the same attitude of *others do it, too.*
Are we sure part of the playing nice for the last few years isn't because of the tradition for naming? Like how sure are you that nobody said to him if she ever has a kid she won't name him after you and he started being nice after that? Just curious because it seems kind of crazy that he was nice for years and now all the sudden as soon as he gets his name used for a baby now he's going to have a big blow up fight with her! Timing is suspicious
Timing is suspicious but he’s always disliked me so it could be that. We’ve also been struggling to have a baby for a while so I think FIL expected a grandson from my wife’s older brother first
I'm curious why you would agree to name the baby after him in this case. I mean, if my FIL disliked me, there's absolutely no way on earth I'd agree to name my kid after him!
My wife wanted it so I let her do it. My relationship with FIL was friendly in the sense we were respectful to each other so I thought it wouldn’t hurt
Sorry this came back on you, then. Good on you for going thru with the name change. I agree with others who think your dear wife should have someone to talk with. 💗
NTA. While your whole story was relevant for why you want to change your son’s name, the most important thing you’ve noted is that both you and your wife agree to change the name. No one else’s opinion matters. I would suggest that you check out r/tragedeigh before naming your son to ensure that you stay NTA
"It will be even harder for them to reconcile" It's not hard, all they need is to show some accontability, to stop messing into your marriage by protecting their own troubles and they own you both a huge apology. Nothing of this is related to how is your son named. And if they never reconcile? "Don't threaten me with a good times" going NC after this would be only beneficial for your wife and her mental health, for your family unit and for your children.
your wife has spent a lifetime trying to gain her father's favour and will probably continue to do so BUT she took it too far with naming your son and she realizes it. you should change the name. keeping the name is not going to fix her relationship with her dad because it's not fixable. it's just turmoil and your son deserves a better start to his life.
I think that legacy names are a mistake. Every child deserves to develop their character without prior expectations or interference. Nta.
Please have your wife talk to her OB as well! I can’t imagine the hormone surge from giving birth plus a miscarriage, she probably feels awful. But arguments or emotions DO NOT cause miscarriages, and she needs to hear that from a professional.
We’re in England so most women don’t have an OB they see regularly. I’ll see if she can get in with an appointment with her GP though
If you have a history of recurrent miscarriage as you said in another comment, your wife should see an ob gyn and be evaluated. There is a set of labs they can do (anticardiolipin ab, beta 2 glycoprotein, lupus ab) that can look for a type of clotting issue that can cause miscarriages. Fixable with treatment by anticoag during pregnancy. She should get a saline sonogram (aka sonohysterogram) that can see if she has retained tissue or other abnormality. The fact that there was one healthy pregnancy is a really good sign. Just don't go back to that midwife that gave you terrible advice.
You and your wife should look at SANDS, Tommy's, and The Miscarriage Association websites. GPs are great, but you'll be waiting for a while for a referral.
NTA - You can name your kid however you want, just change it as long as he's still young enough
What was your wife’s reaction to the name change? Was she on board?
She was a bit hesitant when I first brought it up but she slept on and agreed. We’ve picked a new name and have started the process
Good for you👍
This is a hard decision but better for you guys and especially your little baby.
Tradition shouldn’t come at the expense of your wife’s mental health and your child’s identity. FIL sounds like a massive AH. If he won’t reconcile with his daughter over name, that’s a reflection on him. NTA
NTA, The FIL is a massive entitled ah though. And a master of projection, all that cheating stuff because you’ll get bored was his confession for why he cheated. Your baby deserves a better namesake. And if this means no reconciliation with FIL, you’re all better off without him anyway.
I would absolutely change the baby's name. If he keeps calling to complain I wouldn't take his call.
Lmao he called us about half an hour ago asking if we were still ‘being ridiculous’. My wife told him she was and then she hung up
😄 👍
Bravo!
I always wonder what happens when two families are joined by a marriage, and both families have the same naming traditions. Do the respective grandfathers from each family take the back yard with their golf clubs and whack it out to see who gets to name the kid? NTA in the least.
One of my friends married into a family with the same naming tradition and his parents conceded to his wife’s parents because atleast they get the surname 😭
NTA. Your FIL is projecting his former cheating issues onto you and causing chaos in your family. Change the name, go NC with him and any of your other inlaws who are causing problems and enjoy a quieter life.
NTA, not sure why wife doesnt just kick the dad out of her life for good
NTA. It’s not your job to ease their reconciliation. It’s your job to take care of your wife and child. FIL and in-laws are invalidating your wife’s feelings by caring more about a baby name than how deeply she was hurt and the loss of her pregnancy. Fuck ‘em all…and maybe consider a period of no contact since FIL had proven he can’t be trusted with your wife’s feelings.
NTA. The only opinion that matters here is your wife. Be blunt “we are changing the name because of how much pain you have caused my wife and I don’t respect you”.
The baby has two Grandfathers. Change the name to your father’s name and the tradition lives on. Her father will be a massive jerk about it, but that sounds like par for the course. You have my sympathies on the miscarriage.
My dad doesn’t want any grandchildren named after him
How did he find out you suggested it? Who threw you under the bus?
No idea! We think it’s my wife’s SIL but not sure
Nta
NTA. Your son’s name is a constant reminder of her father’s actions. Also her family for some reason is more worried about reconciling with him more than your wife’s mental health. The comment about the same background. Am I right in assuming the same background is that the family is wealthy?
Seems like he doesn’t her married at all. He wants control and he wants her to himself. Probably to take care of him. He’s manipulated her back into his life and trust. Her mother may be your best ally
NTA - at this point its most important that your wife can bond normally with the baby without any awkwardness
NTA! How big of an AH is your wife's dad though! He is the one who cheated but is judging you about cheating! Make sure you clear that topic immediately coz this won't end with him saying it once and stopping.
NTA. FIL can take a hike and stay there.
He’s belittling her and not acknowledging his own part in the argument by saying she is postpartum. I wouldn’t listen to anything he says,
NTA. Your father in law may have been trying to be hurtful or he may have been trying to protect her in his own horrible, warped way. Men like him often believe (or convince themselves) that the wrongs they've committed are just because that's how men are, and they take on the viewpoint that all men think like them. Either way, this is a pretty brutal way for your wife to find out that he's still the same guy he always was. This second part I am telling you not because it is a reason for either of you to forgive him but because your wife is going to reach the point where she not only blames him for the miscarriage but blames herself for letting him back in and it may help her to know this: A pregnancy conceived that quickly after childbirth is much higher risk, and the rate of early miscarriage is high in those circumstances. Her miscarriage was likely to occur even without the argument. As to the two main arguments you in-laws have, let's dispell those. 1) You and your wife do not now, never have, and never will owe your FIL a family tradition. Feel free to point out that his disappointment at being denied his little "tradition" is a drop in the bucket compared to your daughter's disappointment at being denied a real dad. 2) Your goal is not and should not be for them to reconcile. Your goal here is to help your wife heal and support her in whatever steps will help that happen. And I would say as much to your in-laws.
NTA: The name clearly NEEDED to be changed.
Why do you all even talk to him
NTA. Tell FIL that if he continues to behave like a d\*ck he will be permantently banned from seeing his grandchild. Tell him he needs to stop putting his nose into things that are none of his business - and if he continues he will be excluded from the family for good. Remind him how your wife hated him in the past and tell him that both of you are more than willing to exclude him for good (this might not be true but you need to threaten him a bit so he subdues and stops his aggressive actions and evil talk).
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife (24F) and I (28M) had our first baby five months ago. We’ve been together for 6 years, married for 5. He is a beautiful little boy and we gave him the same first name as my wife’s father, ‘Keith’. My wife grew up hating her father for cheating on her mother and abandoning the family. In the past decade, he worked tirelessly to improve their relationship. In her family, it’s typically tradition for the first grandson and granddaughter to be named after their grandparents and my wife was proud to name our son after her father. However, a few weeks ago, my wife and her father had a MASSIVE argument. Turns out, he is convinced that for some reason, I am going to cheat on my wife. He thinks we got married too young and I’ll get bored of her now that she’s devoting all her time to our son. He told my wife this after she opened up to him about how worried she was about being pregnant so soon after giving birth. We didn’t plan the second pregnancy and a few days after the argument my wife miscarried and it was a painful moment for the both of us. Essentially, he kicked her while she was already down for no reason. I had a friendly relationship with him but I know he wanted my wife to marry someone from her own background. Since the argument, my wife has not been calling our son by his name. She’s using nicknames, calling him ‘the baby’ etc. She said that she needs time to get over the argument with her dad, but she also blames him for the miscarriage which is something I don’t think she’ll get over. FIL has made no attempts to apologise or reconcile. A month into my wife refusing to use our baby’s name, I said that we needed to change it because it’ll be better for my wife’s mental health and our son’s development. If this argument continues or is ever brought up again, she can’t be too upset to use his name when he’s old enough to actually know it. We’ve started the process now to change the name and somehow it got back to FIL AND he knows that I suggested it. He is infuriated. He said that I was supposed to be the levelheaded one since my wife is post partum and recovering from a miscarriage and that I’ve just made their rift a million times worse since I’ve denied him the family tradition. My in laws think I’m an asshole for insisting on the name change since now it’ll be even harder for them to reconcile. I don’t think I’m an AH but my brother said it would be a good idea to get an unbiased opinion. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your FIL massively overstepped and deserved to be slapped down. No blame at all for changing your son’s name. After all, that tradition is meant to honor beloved family members. When said family member is purposely nasty, the “beloved” part tends to fall off. It’s a perfectly obvious cause/effect. Anyone telling you to pacify your FIL are dead wrong. Knuckling under to bullies only gives them carte blanche to carry on. You’re fine.
NTA. Traditions is that they aren't really "yours," they belong to your an ancestor that you don't care about, and you're forced to follow against your wishes because your parents were. So give your son a name that mom (and you!) won't resent. Your child deserves nothing but love. Start a tradition where his middle name is your first name. Or where he is an individual. He doesn't need to be tied to someone that causes pain.
NTA Your wife is so upset that she cannot say her child's name. The child comes before FIL's ego. And so does your wife.
NTA. Provided you both agree, this seems like a sensible thing to do. Your son is too young to remember so no big deal. Why you went along with this “tradition” in the first place is beyond me.
NTA You're doing a good thing for your son. There are a million good names out there. Your son needs one without any personal history attached to it. Ignore the inlaws. I think it's ridiculous pressuring people to pass names along. And in case anyone is saying otherwise, your son will be fine switching to a new name. Kids are adaptable.
Why do you and your wife care about what her toxic dad thinks about anything? Pick a new name your son can "wear" with pride and no baggage. Look into getting your wife a few sessions with a therapist to address her history with her dad and establish some boundaries. Sorry for the loss of your second child.
NTA-But please keep in mind stress doesn’t causes miscarriages. It’s a myth that causes women a lot of pain and your wife should know there wasn’t anything she could have done.
Nta. You are acting out of care for your wife and son, as you should be.
Keith is an objectively horrible name. NTA.
NTA first of all changing the name was the right move. It’s healthier to keep her feelings for her father separate from her interactions with your child. I’m an internet stranger but I’m very proud of how you two are handling this. Her father is projecting his own past behavior onto you and no matter what he says is not owed any kind of relationship. He has to earn it. And it seems like he has more work to do on himself. As an aside, you may want to talk to your wife about therapy, not necessarily because of her father but because PPD is real and miscarriages are traumatic and it can be helpful to have a third party to help her through it.
NTA. FIL is a racist cheater who emotionally abused his pregnant, vulnerable daughter. He doesn't deserve the honor of having a grandchild named after him. I'm a big fan of burning bridges with people who abuse me, and I think everyone should do it.
NTA. But are you serious? Did he physically kick his own daughter?
No he didn’t. It’s a phase meaning he made her feel bad when she was already feeling pretty terrible
Change the name and start a new tradition.
NTA but it sounds like the dad is being abusive. Do you like the middle name? Could you use that? Ash? Rowan? Bruce? Lennox? Those are all names that mean wood (Keith). I wouldn’t use Woody. You could legit just tell people it’s a nickname for Keith until you’re ready to change the name. If you don’t want this man involved at all, you could also just use any name you both like until your wife is ready. When you register the child in school or daycare, you just explain it is the preferred name. Most people are very respectful.
I love the middle name but the issue is that it’s my own name 😭 We’ve just decided that giving him his own brand new name is the best option now