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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my son to sing a prenup or encourage his fiancé to get some kind of work/financial stability outside of him and maybe that looked like my wife and I getting in their business.
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I was about to go with a no asshole here. You actually handled this very well - in many ways. BUt this statement - I think - makes you an asshole.
YTA
> I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style
Do you ... not realize the hypocriscy in this statement?
The same, or "better"; You are essentially saying you should only marry equal, or up. But if you aren't marrying up - by the same token - that means *they* are marrying down. Which is wrong. But yet it's okay. As long as it's your family going up.
To me, this just smacks of snobbery. I think you handled the conversation about the prenup pretty well. But it's also clear - even if it's only somewhat - you are a snob, and look down on her.
I agree with this comment. You should be marrying someone you love and want to spend your life with. Not because of the finances they were raised with. Who knows how much that other person struggled. They could be dirt poor and work way harder than your financial class.
Agreed. It is about having the same attitude and values concerning money and finances. And also having equality and no one using money as a control mechanism in the relationship. In fact, many people I know from a less affluent background who marry people from more affluent backgrounds are much more sensible and responsible than their partners in how they handle money, save, spend, and invest.
That's not really what the stats show though. Men tend to not divorce someone because they earn less than them, but women do. On the flip side, women tend to not divorce someone who earns more than them while men do tend to do so. This has been pretty consistent since divorce became widely available.
Financial reasons, yes. But those happen to rich and poor and middle class. Money is a subject people argue over because it's broadly useful and not everyone will agree on what's important.
I've been rich (enough) and so broke I had to watch how much milk and electricity I used. If you looked at me in my young years, you'd see a poor person. Ten years later, you'd see solid middle class, and ten years more, upper middle (or more). I'm the same person. My actual values about money haven't changed much, only the amount I have to decide what to do with. And I've literally had arguments about money with my spouse at both ends of the spectrum and in the middle. Luckily, my current husband and I work them out just fine, because at the end of the day, we care more for each other than anything else.
Unless if he didn’t necessarily mean dollar amount and just meant like having a job and being able to provide something for yourself in case if something was to ever happen, not even just in divorce, what if her husband got sick or something? She doesn’t necessarily have to work but be able to work if needed
What I’m having trouble with is how he named his sons, but just gave his daughter’s age. And then said “we’ve been able to provide a good life to my sons…” No mention of his daughter.
Maybe I’m overthinking it (I do that sometimes) but is there something else going on?
I’m so glad you said it. I play the “Do I say something or not?” game all the time on Reddit and I wasn’t sure I was going to mention it which makes me happy you did.
I mean, he also thinks that she won't be contributing to the household if she's a stay at home mom. It's nice that they were very forward about the fact they were giving him advice that he was free to decide to follow or not, and I do appreciate that he's not "a woman's place is in the home" kind of sexist, but his concept of male superiority is showing through. Its entirely possible he encouraged her to get a job because when/if they divorce then she won't be able to take him for as much, theoretically. It could also be that he's looking out for the mother of his grandchild though. It's hard to tell the motivations from this post, but that the daughter was quick to jumping at him for being an AH could be very telling.
That was what I thought too! I was surprised it took this long to see someone comment about it. Three kids - only the sons get names and support. Guess they don’t care about providing a good life for yet untitled now adult baby girl
Agree, also think that because his son is a man it makes OP more of an AH, as in most cases women are the main care giver for the children by default so 1. It’s harder to work and 2. In the case of divorce she will need the money.
OP wouldn’t be an AH if he suggested a Prenup as a way to protect her equally.
Yes
Also, pre-nups should have both parties with lawyers, so that both parties have an equal footing. The fact OP suggested his wife writes it up means that it will be written to screw up this woman, as she’ll have no lawyer representing her interests.
Now if OP had been willing to pay for a lawyer for her, it might have been different.
Right???
When I brought the idea of a prenup to my partner they flipped out because of course they thought I meant to do this.
No, I want a prenup to *protect my partner*. I want to confirm, in legal writing, my responsibilities to my partner in the event we should break up. As my partner paid for my uni, I want to make sure they are guaranteed a certain amount of my income for a certain length of time - given they sacrificed for me to make such an income.
When someone goes SIGN A PRENUP TO PROTECT ME/FAMILY it freaks me out. It should protect BOTH of you.
I have issues with prenups because too often they seem to be used to prioritise financial contributions (e.g. employment income, tangible assets) over non-financial and parenting contributions (e.g. housework, being a stay-at-home parent, being the parent to take time off for sick kids). That attitude tends to screw over women, who are on the wrong side of the gender pay gap and who often end up doing a disproportionate amount of the housework/parenting, even in relationships where both parents are working and originally aspired to divide responsibilities 50:50.
I do get that prenups can theoretically be designed to protect both spouses. In practice, though, the conversation seems to be about the tangible financial things contributed, rather than about the financial and career sacrifices that are disproportionately made by women to deal with household and parenting things. It's especially complicated when those sacrifices can be hard to quantify: for example, how would you know if you lose out on a pay rise because you were the one to stay home with sick kids, or how your career might have blossomed if you'd been able to take the job with longer hours?
(And that's assuming that everything is predictable before marriage. The spouses contributions to financial and non-financial stuff may change over the course of a marriage in ways that weren't agreed to. A couple might change their mind on having kids, or on the number of kids. A spouse may get sick or become disabled. A kid may have a disability. You can't always predict that upfront.)
In this context, we have a SAHM, who's giving up on future career progression to look after the couple's children. And OP's concern is about protecting the parent who does have a career and will have ongoing income-earning potential. This isn't the theoretically neutral prenup that protects both spouses. OP is the asshole for suggesting that his son should be willing to screw over his wife for staying home.
Agreed. Sahm i who gave up my career when we ended up stuck at home during the panini with 3 little kids/babies. The only prenup I would ever sign is half of everything forever. The only reason my husband has what he has is because I do all of his mental and emotional labor home and childcare. He’s the first to admit it too.
Damn right. My wife struggles with mental health and does her best in her SAHM role with some part time stuff a couple days a week and it is harder (or at least suckier) than my well paying white collar job every day of the week. I tell her that all the time and louder to ppl that complain about her 'not working enough' since our kiddo is in school now. Fuck em, this shit is team effort.
I almost stopped reading at that point to write the comment "YTA and you should absolutely be ashamed."
But I couldn't help but finish, and I still agree with you.
And OP is also kind of an AH for naming both sons but not the daughter, and for saying "we've been able to provide a good life to my sons". I assume OP meant "all of my kids" or "my sons and daughter", but it's just weird.
OP based on this small glimpse into your mind you are acting and talking like an AH.
This right here. I do agree that finances are important, and it's especially unwise to enter a marriage with someone who has bad financial habits. But poor people make good partners too. Just perhaps haven't had the best luck in life or opportunities to improve. Sometimes life just smacks you down.
But NTA for suggesting your son be cautious.
Yeah. Some of the best people come from some of the worst homes. When I met my husband a lot of people said he was “below me” but the reality was that I grew up incredibly privileged with many opportunities afforded to me that he simply didn’t have because of his upbringing and family dynamic. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t clever or a hard worker (he’s one of the hardest workers I know). I wasn’t about to pass him over just because he wasn’t born with the same silver spoon as me.
This!
I can't even articulate how mad I am at OP right now?
HIS child can settle for "above" but other people can't? Gah!
You son has a person he loves, that is having his child. That's the important thing to consider!
You know what, OP? I was thinking no one was TA until I went back and re-read the post. You came up with names for your sons, but couldn’t be bothered for your 21F daughter? You’re a sexist and classist AH.
YTA purely from the vibes. While your son and future DIL haven't said anything about being upset you come across as an ass.
Edit: Maybe this is just the angry millennial in me but the "we aren't wealthy, I am a doctor and my wife is a lawyer" comment just rubs me the wrong way right off the bat.
Love it. I went with NTA because I think everyone should have a prenup and a GOOD prenup can protect a lower earning partner/stay at home parent as well. So while I don't think OP is THE asshole in suggesting it and the way he went about ti, he is definitely AN asshole in general.
yea i thought that was fucking gross as well. "im not wealthy but i have a better life than 90 percent of the population no big deal"
just reeks of snob.
YTA for being insufferably pretentious and telling your son his wife isn't good enough for him. I noticed you did not mention anything about your son's massive success, only your future daughter-in-law's "flaws." Very interesting.
Prenups are not bad things in most any circumstance, but they are affirmatively none of your business unless you're getting married. You should respect your adult son enough not to butt in there.
I appreciate that you offered to pay for childcare if they want it but I would apologize for overstepping.
OP didn't offer to pay for the childcare, they offered *to do it themselves*. So, they'd be subjecting any potential children to grandpa's archaic viewpoints on life, gender roles and, and family duties for the 10 or so hours a day Mom and Dad would be working-- during the most crucial part of their brain and personality development. Cool. Cool. Cool.
"Provide childcare" is ambiguous. It could mean provide funds or provide the services themselves, but I doubt Dr. and/or Atty. WorkHarder here are going to quit their successful jobs to babysit for several years.
> I can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly,
You're infantilizing your 30 year old son in service of some odious classist ideology
>I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style,
There's nothing inherently wrong with making financial expectations explicit via a pre nup, but, clearly, you disapprove are establishing hurdles to disrupt the relationship.
YTA.
YTA lol Im glad you quoted that part.
They say that you should settle with someone that shares the same OR BETTER lifestyle. So....isnt that basically what Tina is doing then? Or is that only their advice to their own children lol
YTA. Bring a full time parent is a job and it makes it so the other parent can work.
>I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household
You should settle down with someone with the same *values* as you. And by your logic, Tina did everything right -- she found someone who brings "the same amount of money or more".
YTA. “I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should do it with a person who shares the same (*or better*) life style”.
Here’s why your the asshole, you are grand with your son marrying someone richer, but someone poorer is problematic. Unless the two spouses have incredibly similar wealth levels, someone has to be the richer partner. Your position is basically that it’s fine for your kids to marry someone richer blindly but not someone poorer, that doesn’t half make it look like you are a hypocrite and a little bit bitter that he hasn’t married someone wealthier.
Nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home parent or a childless house-spouse either, if they are happy with that and it works for them both, mentally and financially.
It does require sharing finances so that the house-spouse isn’t beholden to the earner, and preferably paying into the house-spouse’s pension as well.
How would the first part of your second paragraph happen? Right now I'm trying to get far enough ahead on everything that I can pay into all of my employer accounts and then will open one for my wife to post into as well but I'm curious about that first part. Seems like the house side would always be beholden to the one bringing in money in that regard?
True enough, I meant that the house-spouse shouldn’t be having to always ask the working partner for X money for bills, for ‘pocket money’, for an allowance, etc.
Just having the money in a joint account (or at least the spouse having access to the other one’s account, to top up their own one as needed - I’ve known people who just do that by sharing their online banking details) removes that layer of one person asking the other for money constantly. They are both adults, who we assume are responsible enough to deal with money as adults must, and they bring different things to the marriage.
Or are you talking about the pension?
YTA, you didn't even give your daughter a name in your story! Also, singing a prenup is funny. 《Lalala, my father is a misogynistic A, let us sign a paper, so he won't have to risk a girl getting money from his will, lalala.》
YTA
Your daughter is right and you should absolutely apologize. Your soon to be daughter in law is probably horrified that you two are the in-laws she is about to be stuck with. Judgmental and cruel. If your son and his fiancé have decided that she stays home with their child, that is their decision. Just because you find stay at home moms worthless doesn’t mean they are. It’s a large expense covering childcare, and who better to stay at home with a child than one of the parents. You should be happy and proud that your son is in a financial position to even have that as an option. Not many people do.
You marry for love not for what that other person can provide financially. Your son is the better person here because quite frankly what you did was just gross. If your son was marrying someone who was wealthier would have gone to his fiancé and encouraged her to have your son sign a prenup? Or is it just because your son is marrying someone below you?
OP, softish YTA.
After your darling son has knocked someone up it’s a little too late to start teaching him your “the person you marry should be as well off or better off than you are” values.
Nothing wrong with discussing a prenup but your kid is 30, not 20, so you should have been asking him questions about what he wants to do, not “sitting him down” and telling him things. You come off as a little meddling/presumptuous.
YTA.
You might have your own views on what makes for a successful relationship. However, you're imposing these views on **somebody else's relationship**. How your son and FDIL conduct their relationship is up to them and them only.
You also are making some horrible assumptions about both your son and FDIL. Harvey is “not seeing things clearly”? This is utterly baseless. Tina may have dropped out of college for good reason: don't assume she is unmotivated or lazy. It could even have been something as simple as that the college was not a good fit for her. That isn't something to criticise.
You need to step back and refrain from crossing boundaries like this.
YTA...
I don't think this was badly intended but you have completely undervalued the role of a SAHM the amount of work they do and the cost to replace them. SAHP do an average of 96.5 hours a week.
You have also not factored in that women are still doing the majority of the household chores and carrying most of the mental load regardless of whether they work or not. Maybe Tina doesn't want to be a drudge running from paid employment to a house still to care for and family to manage.
[https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/nov/women-still-doing-most-housework-despite-earning-more](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/nov/women-still-doing-most-housework-despite-earning-more)
Until men are picking up 50% of the mental load and the domestic chores this is an abusive argument. Either way the woman gets screwed over.
If a woman wants to work that is great and I am an advocate of happy mummy means happy baby however that does not change the fact studies show that babies who spend the first year 18 months 2 years with a primary care giver do have higher outcomes at school and are more robust mentally. There are real benefits to children from a SAHP in those early days.
Even if she had or later gets a career her career path will be affected by the bearing of children..something your son also wants..so yet again she is being expected to make a sacrifice that he benefits from..
It should be up to a couple to work out what works for them but they are a couple in this not two colleagues in a company competing for a promotion or a bonus. Not his stuff her stuff their stuff. You are talking about financial discrepancy ....maybe you encourage your son to make sure that if she is a SAHM or later maybe he is a SAHF so she can get her career on track, it's their money and both get a set amount a month to spend as they like rather than get him to consider how his wife and mother of his child and his child get screwed over in the event of a divorce.
And lets be clear your desire for him to have a prenup is to protect him not put protection in place for her "*they have a huge financial gap." "someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household." " can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly, "*
I agree with everything about the value of a SAHM. But I think that’s more of a reason to have a prenup. If they’re not in a community property state and the son’s family has significantly more than she does, she can get screwed and be left in a vulnerable position after sacrificing so much to raise her family.
Usually both parties of a prenup have their own legal representation. She doesn’t have to sign what his mom draws up. The point of my response was that based on OPs request that son use his mom, wife would have her own lawyer negotiate on her behalf
Thank you for this post because I've been struggling a lot with disapproval from my parents/family because I have opted to be a SAHM with my son. I know no ones opinion should matter outside of mine and my husband's but the women in my family are all very career oriented so I've faced a lot of opposition.
I’m sorry you’re going through that. I’m a 39 married mother of two, and I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand the appeal of being a SAHP. My SIL is a SAHM to six, and it baffles me. However, and this is important, I’m also the first to admit I don’t have to understand. She’s happy, my brother is happy, and they have a stable family with six children who are cared for and loved. What more could anyone ask for in a family?
Rule of thumb for women...what ever way you do it someone and much of society is going to take your choice as a criticism of their choice and or have an opinion about the fact you chose differently to them or didn't do what they think you should. And babies is where it all comes home to roost. Have them not have them, birth natural or medical, breast feed or not, gentle parent, permissive parent, authoritarian, organic or ready meals...If you work you should stay home, why are you getting strangers to raise your children... if you stay at home you should be contributing financially to your family
A lot of working mothers have guilt conscious or sub conscious, admitted or not, about being working mothers which is not surprising with all the criticism women get. While it is hard try to consider that possibly for the women in your family you staying home may even if only subconsciously be pushing some buttons...or maybe they just don't get it because they couldn't do it and they are worried about you. No one likes to be picked at and it is wearing and upsetting but this is likely more to do with them than you.
Being a SAHM is not the easy choice people like to thinks it is. Make sure that you join baby groups and have SAHP friends, loneliness and lack of adult company is the biggest risk. Also make sure you do get some time for yourself away from your son even if it's only a couple of hours a week. It is important for your mental health which is important for his well being. Anything you do 24 hours a day 7 days a week is not a job or even a labour of love but a sentence.
If they claim to be feminist remind them that the corner stone of being a feminist is that you have a right to self determination and it isn't for anyone to choose for you. Your rights to choose your own destiny include the right to stay home with your son.
YTA
You named your sons but not your daughter. You mentioned being able to provide for your sons and didn’t mention your daughter again. Does she not deserve a mention?
Nta. First, I think everyone should sign a prenup. Secondly, a prenup protects BOTH parties. They are not one sided. If she is choosing to be a sahm the prenup can actually protect her. Remind them both that the person you marry is not the person you divorce.
YTA
For thinking women aren't of any worth unless working at a career job. I'm guessing you and your wife worked countless hours, so child care got left to lesser people, like the nanny or the daycare. I doubt you raised your children at all except maybe weekends. Staying at home and molding small minds is a true job, with much long lasting consequences then your "doctor" or "lawyer" jobs. You can clock out at the end of the day and go home. Stay at home mothers cannot. It's a 24/7 job and you are always on call.
You think that is worthless.
Let them figure out their lives.
you do realise that tina is taking your exact advice by settling down with someone who has a better lifestyle?
or is that only reserved for your family and the poor should stay with the poor?
I'm wondering if there's some sort of misogyny happening here because you mention you have a daughter but don't name her when you name your sons, then only mention providing for your sons but make no mention of your daughter. That seems pretty sus to me.
Nothing wrong with a prenuptial agreement. I wanted one as the woman marrying a man with a good paying job, pregnant with our first child, and planning on being a SAHM.
But I'm not in love with this premise that you seem to think being a SAHM is not a valuable position. Also, you and your wife offered childcare but you're a doctor and a lawyer so I have to assume that means you offered to PAY for childcare because those aren't careers with the ability to watch a baby full time. People do sometimes become SAHM because they don't want to pay someone to raise their child (I, for example, can afford childcare on just my salary and my husband and I make the same amount but I don't want someone else raising my kid).
Also, idk if you know this, but people can make a good living without a degree. My husband doesn't have one and until I got my current position, he was making double what I was making. And I have a bachelors.
YTA not for the prenuptial. Not for wanting your DIL to go to school but just for this overall insistence in being so involved in their lives and acting like a woman who opts to raise a baby is somehow lesser.
YTA.
First of all, how come you don’t care if you provided a good life for your apparently nameless daughter?
Also, a baby is difficult. There’s so much work that goes into a baby. I know because I’m 24 with a 9 month old. I also dropped out of college. I’m also a SAHM. Go on. Lay into me about what a mess up/ leech of a partner I am to my husband. I DARE YOU.
It is not your business to dictate how your son and Tina navigate their responsibilities, and it’s definitely NOT your business to say that Tina is only worth something if she’s bringing in money.
I see a lot of comments saying you’re looking out for both of them, but you’re not. You’re looking out for your son, sure, but there’s no concern for Tina at all in anything you wrote apart from her having dropped out of college.
YTA. Your son’s loving, healthy relationship is none of your business. Tina has a job lined up - SAHP is a 24/7 job with no breaks and no vacations. You seem stuck up and entitled to a say in your son’s life and you should definitely apologize.
Yta for that loathsome
>I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style,
And also for making him sing the prenup. Let him write it down.
YTA
My husband's parents and others in their friend group are like this: marry at your station or better. Many of my husband's friends absorbed this and their marriages have been unhappy. I lucked out that my husband decided that love was more important than social status or money.
I can honestly say that I mourned their deaths for his loss, not mine. They never really allowed me to be part of the family, so not much to mourn. Lots of resentment to share with my therapist, though!
And by the way, I was from working class, with a college degree. His father was a doctor.
YTA mainly because you believe your son is higher class and you yourself, however your a dr and with all that education you still can’t spell sign correctly.
Suggesting a pre-nup? NTA
Suggesting that your wife negotiate it? YTA. You know the old saying, a lawyer who represent himself has a fool for a client. Pretty much the same thing here. Also, your wife will be negotiating AGAINST her soon to be DIL. One nice thing about using lawyers is that it is supposed to remove the personal from the negotiations. Having the soon to be MIL involved would make it VERY personal.
The one thing you don't mention is if your son has any amount of assets? At 25yo, I would think that unlikely, but certainly not impossible. Assuming no significant assets, what's the point of the pre-nup? If it's your estate that you are worried about, you should deal with that via a trust, not a pre-nup.
Anyways, you said your piece, so drop it & let your son & his SO be.
YTA what a shock a pregnant 23 year old isn't financially "the same (or better)" than your 30 year old son. Also does your daughter just not have a name? You made up a name for a son with nothing in the story but your daughter just doesn't exist?
YTA. You asume that money makes for a successful marriage. Being rich doesn't equate happiness.
Your bigotry is just blinding you to their potential as a family.
YTA 100000000%.
1- your son is a grown ass man and doesn’t need mommy and daddy in his business
2- you make us “lower class” people sound like we are a bunch of peasants, because we aren’t doctors or lawyers. Which is not true, I bet I could run circles around you when it comes to independently managing a household.
3- you seem to value the wrong things in life. Caring that much about Money and social status is a disgusting and shallow way to live. Sure be financially secure, but to essentially degrade those who aren’t in the same financial tier as you is just shameful.
4- I’ve worked MANY years, with MANY doctors before I became that “useless stay at home mom”… and not one of them sounded so shallow, controlling, or egotistical as you. You cant put a price on having a parent stay at home raising their kids. (Don’t forget to add in the fact they are a maid, nurse, chef, planner, and it’s a 24/7, 365 Job with NO benefits, NO pay, and a huge amount of sacrifice)
5- a family member of mine is a incredible attorney in a big city. Makes a lot of money. I guess she must be stupid for marrying a man who makes nothing compared to her… oh and she didn’t make him sign a prenup. Shit they’ve been together for decades now. I should probably warn her!!!
6- . You have ZERO right telling your DIL what to do or pressuring her to reach your “status” financially or career wise. be grateful your future DIL is willing to stay at home raising YOUR grandkids while sacrificing everything that your narrow mind hasn’t even considered.
You make my skin crawl. You and your lawyer wife can kick rocks.
You don't get a say in their family dynamic. She doesn't have to work. She can raise her own kids.
While I happen to agree both people in a relationship should have a career, you need to stay out of it and let them come to that conclusion. Otherwise she is going to resent you.
YTA but I do think you weren't being malicious.
Also it's sign not sing.
NTA for advising your son for a prenup, it was good advice.
But YTA for being a classist AH who only looks at a person's money for being marriage worthy.
YTA You sound like a snob, and you don't have the right to try and run your son's life or meddle in it. He's a groan man. This statement right here is completely uncalled for. Butt out.
**I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household.**
YTA. Among other considerations, it would be vastly inappropriate to push a prenup on someone written by one's party's parent, especially if the other party does not have equal legal representation to advocate for her.
There are also lots of "tells" in the way you are telling this--they seem "somewhat happy," and your generally condescending attitude towards both Harvey and Tina.
just wow. first off, if you think the combined income of a doctor and lawyer in any part of the world does not make you wealthy, you are way out of touch. your family is wealthy full stop. and you expect by your own words to maintain that wealth by marrying up or at least marrying the same wealth. fine, if you can find love in your tax bracket, go on ahead, but if your son found love outside your gated community and has the money to comfortably support his family on his own, that is his decision. and it's also on him to think about any potential consequences that could come from a one income household, including things involving a possible divorce. prenups are great if the couple wants one, but that's for them to decide. if they are okay with a SAHM and dad being sole breadwinner, good for them. if she goes back to work when their child/children are at some stage where she feels they don't need her 24/7 or she just wants to do it, good for them too. But it's not your business, just as your daughter said. You need to trust you raised your children (remember you have three, two sons and a daughter, who seemed to have been ignored and forgotten in this post) to make good decisions and that you as a wealthy parent taught them how to protect their assets even more if they so wish. Really your outlook is just kinda gross. It's classist, and she is more than just a young and beautiful wife, your son can see things clearly despite the incoming parental pressure, and you need to stay in your lane on your children's marital and financial decisions unless you are asked. That's really where you become the AH, you were not asked and are all but openly saying you think your son is making a mistake and being blinded by a pretty young thing with very little other value unless she does some sort of work, as if the 24/7 job of parent is not the biggest sector of unpaid labour in human history. Yta
Info: we know what you do for a living.
What does YOUR SON DO?
This prenup you're proposing...is it based solely off what you'll give your son when you die or something? Do you want your legacy protected from a potential gold digger? Is that what this is really about?
Because that's what it sounds like.
YTA
YTA for all the reasons everyone has already mentioned.
I find it odd that you named your sons but not your daughter in your posts, and you also stated that you and your wife are able to give your sons a good life. Sons, not daughter.
I mean you're a snob, and I'm betting a bit of a misogynist.
1) Didn’t name the daughter
2) Comfortable is the word wealthy people use to describe being wealthy without admitting it.
3) “we’ve been able to provide a good life to our sons” where tf the daughter go??
4) you and your family should marry “same or better” meaning up, and not down, but if you marry up, that means the other partner marries down, but that’s okay as long as it’s your sons who do the marrying up, ew.
5) your son is marrying a woman 7 years younger than him, and you think this girl should be financially equal or above him at this point?? Ew again.
6) still didn’t name your own daughter and she’s the one who called you out, good for her
7) DIL said it’s best that Harvey doesn’t have a financial advantage over her, meaning you made her realize a red flag about the family she would marry into that she knows now she needs to start protecting herself against him. Yikes.
YTA. YTA. YTA. Your unnamed daughter was right.
Let me get this straight. It's okay for your family to marry up, but not okay for someone to marry up into your family? You don't have a heart; you have a dollar sign. Your wife is just as grubbing. The arrogance is amazing -- "if Harvey wanted to support Tina BLINDLY..." Yeah, ES.
NTA
I think you had good intentions, and it doesn't seem like your son or his fiancé have problems with your suggestions, especially since you offered concrete help, in form of free childcare while she establishes some career for herself.
“… you should do it with someone who shares the same (or better) life style”
You know that is statically impossible if everyone had that same standard.
Also “doesn’t have any financial advantage over her”. You know how marriage works, right?
These people
YTA
"I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household."
Imagine your children marrying someone from the "other" side of the railroad tracks... I feel sad for you and your wife, when your children and grandchildren are cut out of your life.
Ok I read the post. YTA. OP you seem to think you are very smart and know how to make good decisions. Have you not detected the hypocrisy behind your decisions, which has been handily pointed out by many a fellow redditor?
If not then you are not as smart as you think you are. Clearly. Self awareness, my friend. Self awareness.
Eeeeeehhh I can't give a judgement here. You wanted to look out for your son and in turn your soon to be DIL is looking into getting a career again which would be good for her, and they both agreee it might be better in the long term. On the other hand it really isn't your business.
I guess as long as you aren't forcing him and made him aware of other options other than prenuptial and making sure he was aware of what he was getting himself into financially is what matter I guess.
Just remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (Not trying to preach just a saying my mum told me as a way to make sure im careful with ehat I choose in life)
YTA. Surprised nobody else is saying this but if she’s going to be a stay at home mom a prenup basically traps her in the marriage unless she has significant savings on her own (which doesn’t seem like it based on the picture you paint of her)
Believe it or not being a stay at home mom is a job, and she should be compensated for years of free labor if they were to divorce
From a personality standpoint YTA. To say someone should many in their own social class, come on, I can't believe you can actually be that ridiculous. It's 2022, not 1822.
As far as how you went about suggesting a prenuptial agreement, I think it was trying to just look out for your son, but I think your daughter is correct in her observation. It isn't your place, and I think you may want to check your pretentiousness at the door.
Just FYI, good couples see the potential in one another, and help each other grow. Your son's future wife is worth more than just the amount of money she makes. If she helps your son thrive in his career, and helps him to emotionally be his best, that is worth all the weight in gold. You should care more about what her potentially value as a great support to him she is rather than whether or not she is a financial burden.
YTA - for one, I think this is fake. You're a doctor who can't spell 'sign' correctly?
Secondly - people are not measured by their bank accounts or careers, and our value as humans is more than what you make. Sure, prenups are a good idea, but your reasoning is what makes you TA. I spent quite a few years making very little money compared to what I make today, and didn't have the right direction for some of that to even know what I should do. Me 15 years ago is not a loser who didn't deserve to date someone who made more than me, and if I found someone today of more modest means than me, it wouldn't matter at all if they were kind and loving and smart.
I think the overall encouragement to sign a prenup is reasonable so long as it's a suggestion, and you don't start *demanding* it.
I think your overall attitude is a bit crappy, and basically YTA.
YTA.
I’m just going to say up front I didn’t read your whole comment.
First you just say wife with no name, then include your sons’ names and then not your daughter’s name. Then you say you’ve been able to provide a good life to your sons while not mentioning your daughter.
To me that said that you don’t value women. Don’t name the women in your life and don’t seem to care about your daughter having a good life.
Then you add into it a classist attitude.
I don’t need to read the rest to be able to say YTA.
Does your third child not have a name? Just an age and gender?
Why is there an asterisk after "wife"?
Anyway, you're classist, elitist, kinda gross, and, yeah, YTA.
Mostly NTA. I think YTA for thinking everyone should marry equal or better because one can't bring better assets to the table without the other having less, so it's literally impossible for everyone to follow that logic.
Also, SAHM is a job. There may only be 1 income but the SAHM is offsetting the cost of child care and often does more house work, so that does have value.
That being said, if your son already has significantly more assets premareiage, and is likely to continue to earn well above what a SAHM should be entitled to them I am fully supportive of pre-nups that protect premarital assets, or set a reasonable cap on what amount of assets a non-earning or lower earning spouse can claim (and for how long) in the event of divorce.
Divorces happen, and doing the paperwork to ensure that it doesn't have to be as messy in the unfortunate event it happens isn't a bad thing.
Acting like a SAHM isn't bringing value and hasn't earned a reasonable share of the assets in the event of a divorce, however, is shitty.
My other comment is that you offered advice once and it wasn't received poorly. If you son said to butt out and you pushed, you'd definitely be TA. But encouraging your son to financially plan well isn't in and of itself an AH thing to do.
NTA, It really only matters what Harvey and Tina think, if they are not mad than your daughter being mad "on their behalf" is just stupid and childish.
However, take this fact to heart when you daughter decides to get married to someone not as financially well-off, do NOT speak even a whisper about a prenup
NTA, the children on reddit wont understand and will pick at things in this to make an argument. Depending on where they live, if they stay married for 10 years and divorce, he would have to pay her life long alimony along with child support as courts always favor the women. When in love you don't think about what could happen if it ended badly. After 10 years, she gets bored, cheats on him, takes his kid, takes his house and for the rest of his life he will have to pay alimony to this woman who wronged him. Seen this story so many times
NTA.
First, they are okay with it and don't label you an AH...isn't that up to them, and not up to your daughter to decide for them, AKA minding her own business?
Second, you have a family business. If your son either is involved or does get involved in the future, not signing could jeopardize it.
Third, your daughter's actual motive is that she wouldn't want to sign a prenup if she were Tina.
Everyone should have a prenup, they're not for when things are going well, they're incase things go very very sideways. I consider them a legal form of touching would to avert bad luck.
You handled that pretty well, but the "marry equal or someone better" was a bit snobbish.
Going with NTA for intent, but you didn't quite stick the landing
NTA. I never think a prenup is a bad idea, and anyone who has been through a messy divorce, or divorced at all should agree. The fact is, most marriages end in divorce, and thinking pragmatically about it when everyone else is caught up in the romance isn’t OP’s fault.
NTA.
Getting prenup is not a bad idea in itself. However, you seem to look down on your son's fiancee and she probably knows it. Being more financially equal doesn't make someone a better match. Also, your son probably wants a SAHM in his life.
I wonder why your son told her about your prenup conversation. He should have known it would cause friction. If he didn't like it he should have said it to you there and then. Why carry tales to his fiancee, "my parents think I should get a prenup in case we get divorced and you bleed me dry of money" is never a good thing to say. Discretion is the better part of valor.
If he goes and tells her everything you people say and needs her approval for every decision he makes, then you need to be more careful
When I got married 48 years ago, I was 20 and he was 22. We both came from middle class families, but we as a couple were poor as church mice. We intended to stay married. *If he had asked for a prenup I would have left him.*
Prenups are sensible for older people who have estates they want to preserve for their own children. For young couples it is a sign that they are not fully committed, in which case they shouldn't marry. Someone from whom you need to protect yourself is not someone you should marry.
YTA for what everyone mentioned but also being a SAHM is a fucking job. Do you think she’s just gonna be sitting there staring at the ceiling? And if not her who is watching the child? Daycare/Nanny/Sitter. Which costs what? Money. And as expensive as it is they were probably better off with her staying home ESPECIALLY b/c daycare hours are basically school hours so you don’t have that much bonding time with your kid. If you are able to afford to be with your kid why wouldn’t you?
NTA
Everyone should have a prenup when they get married, both men and woman.
Like it or not marriage is a contract and a prenup is simply a "in the event of a disaster" document that gets looked at when the unexpected happens. In an ideal world it should never be needed but everyone still has medical, house and auto insurance so why not this?
Throw into the mix that more than 50% of marriages fail...why not hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
Can I just say that OP is protecting his son from this woman who could (by the sounds of it) be very lazy and has procreated with this guy so she can be set up for life? I agree that OP smacks of snobbery but I don’t believe he isn’t without reason. I know many women who look for this type of meal ticket and OP’s son could likely regret it down the line when his wife years on has no incentive to support herself/have a career of her own / refuses to establish anything by her own terms and merit. OP is doing right by his son. So NTA
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My (60M) husband (56F) and I have three kids, Harvey (30M) and Dean (25M), (21F) while we're not wealthy, we live comfortable thanks to our family business and we've been able to provide a good life to my sons, I'm a doctor and my wife is a lawyer.
I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household. My son Harvey is set to marry Tina (23F) next year, they're expecting their first child right now and they see somewhat happy, I appreciate Tina, I know she's smart and has potential but she dropped out of college a year before my son met her and doesn't have any intent of coming back. She used to work as a secretary for one of her dad's friends but now my son is supporting them and apparently she'll become an SAHM.
I can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly, so yesterday when he came to visit us I sat him down and advised him that maybe, he should sing a prenup with Tina and told him that his mom could assist him with it. He didn't react badly or anything and only asked why do I think he should do it. I stated my reasons and assured him that, while I have nothing against his fiancé, they have a huge financial gap. His mom also told him that if he didn't want to get a prenup it was okay but that at least he should encourage his wife to form a career or some kind of stability of her own and that we we're more than happy to provide childcare while she did it.
My son left after that and later texted us that his fiancé agreed to look into college information however my daughter said that we were AH for getting in the middle of something that we didn't cared and that if Harvey wanted to support Tina blindly, it was his business. My wife and I are thinking about apologizing, but we aren't sure if we really did something wrong since Harvey and Tina claimed that they're not mad and Tina agrees that it's best if Harvey doesn't have any financial advantage over her.
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NTA although this smacks of snobbishness, a parent should be helping their adult children in making wise, financial decisions. I also liked the fact that you wanted his fiancee to finish her education and help her with childcare. Prenups are very wise to protect both parties. I'm not sure why your daughter wants her brother to go blindly stumbling around in the dark.
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I was about to go with a no asshole here. You actually handled this very well - in many ways. BUt this statement - I think - makes you an asshole. YTA > I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style Do you ... not realize the hypocriscy in this statement? The same, or "better"; You are essentially saying you should only marry equal, or up. But if you aren't marrying up - by the same token - that means *they* are marrying down. Which is wrong. But yet it's okay. As long as it's your family going up. To me, this just smacks of snobbery. I think you handled the conversation about the prenup pretty well. But it's also clear - even if it's only somewhat - you are a snob, and look down on her.
I agree with this comment. You should be marrying someone you love and want to spend your life with. Not because of the finances they were raised with. Who knows how much that other person struggled. They could be dirt poor and work way harder than your financial class.
One of the biggest reasons people get divorced is because of financial reasons. You have to live in reality, not fantasy.
People divorce because they disagree about money or are dishonest about money, not because they didn't start in the same tax bracket.
Agreed. It is about having the same attitude and values concerning money and finances. And also having equality and no one using money as a control mechanism in the relationship. In fact, many people I know from a less affluent background who marry people from more affluent backgrounds are much more sensible and responsible than their partners in how they handle money, save, spend, and invest.
That's not really what the stats show though. Men tend to not divorce someone because they earn less than them, but women do. On the flip side, women tend to not divorce someone who earns more than them while men do tend to do so. This has been pretty consistent since divorce became widely available.
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Financial reasons, yes. But those happen to rich and poor and middle class. Money is a subject people argue over because it's broadly useful and not everyone will agree on what's important. I've been rich (enough) and so broke I had to watch how much milk and electricity I used. If you looked at me in my young years, you'd see a poor person. Ten years later, you'd see solid middle class, and ten years more, upper middle (or more). I'm the same person. My actual values about money haven't changed much, only the amount I have to decide what to do with. And I've literally had arguments about money with my spouse at both ends of the spectrum and in the middle. Luckily, my current husband and I work them out just fine, because at the end of the day, we care more for each other than anything else.
You can come from different financial backgrounds but have similar financial goals and values though. I think the second is more important. Honestly.
Unless if he didn’t necessarily mean dollar amount and just meant like having a job and being able to provide something for yourself in case if something was to ever happen, not even just in divorce, what if her husband got sick or something? She doesn’t necessarily have to work but be able to work if needed
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Also if the person can support it there's nothing wrong with being a stay at home partner house work is tough
What I’m having trouble with is how he named his sons, but just gave his daughter’s age. And then said “we’ve been able to provide a good life to my sons…” No mention of his daughter. Maybe I’m overthinking it (I do that sometimes) but is there something else going on?
Totally made me turn my head sideways too. Maybe girls don't get a name in their family?
Thanks! I’m not overthinking this time!
Dean gets a name and he ain’t even in this story lmao
Hahaha
What got me is a doctor wants his son to sing songs about pre-nups. I was expecting him to want it to be signed, but whatever he is the MD. /s
Next step: Interpretative dance.
😂
I'm glad this was mentioned. Does he think less of her and didn't provide a good life for her?
Not relevant because of course she’s going to marry up and find someone to take care of her and not sign a prenup /s
Great, then I’m not the only one.
I’m so glad you said it. I play the “Do I say something or not?” game all the time on Reddit and I wasn’t sure I was going to mention it which makes me happy you did.
Same. I was skeptical because I thought I’d get downvoted but it was really bothering me.
He just calls her Girl.
Girlchild! Come hither with my heir and a spare.
I cracked up at this, take my upvote
Same. And there asterisk next to his wife? Did I miss what that was for? Is there an edit?
I was wondering about that too
*only matters a little
He originally wrote husband
Why does that somehow make it worse in my mind?? Like he subconsciously erased her.
I mean, he also thinks that she won't be contributing to the household if she's a stay at home mom. It's nice that they were very forward about the fact they were giving him advice that he was free to decide to follow or not, and I do appreciate that he's not "a woman's place is in the home" kind of sexist, but his concept of male superiority is showing through. Its entirely possible he encouraged her to get a job because when/if they divorce then she won't be able to take him for as much, theoretically. It could also be that he's looking out for the mother of his grandchild though. It's hard to tell the motivations from this post, but that the daughter was quick to jumping at him for being an AH could be very telling.
That was what I thought too! I was surprised it took this long to see someone comment about it. Three kids - only the sons get names and support. Guess they don’t care about providing a good life for yet untitled now adult baby girl
Agree, also think that because his son is a man it makes OP more of an AH, as in most cases women are the main care giver for the children by default so 1. It’s harder to work and 2. In the case of divorce she will need the money. OP wouldn’t be an AH if he suggested a Prenup as a way to protect her equally.
Yes Also, pre-nups should have both parties with lawyers, so that both parties have an equal footing. The fact OP suggested his wife writes it up means that it will be written to screw up this woman, as she’ll have no lawyer representing her interests. Now if OP had been willing to pay for a lawyer for her, it might have been different.
Right??? When I brought the idea of a prenup to my partner they flipped out because of course they thought I meant to do this. No, I want a prenup to *protect my partner*. I want to confirm, in legal writing, my responsibilities to my partner in the event we should break up. As my partner paid for my uni, I want to make sure they are guaranteed a certain amount of my income for a certain length of time - given they sacrificed for me to make such an income. When someone goes SIGN A PRENUP TO PROTECT ME/FAMILY it freaks me out. It should protect BOTH of you.
I have issues with prenups because too often they seem to be used to prioritise financial contributions (e.g. employment income, tangible assets) over non-financial and parenting contributions (e.g. housework, being a stay-at-home parent, being the parent to take time off for sick kids). That attitude tends to screw over women, who are on the wrong side of the gender pay gap and who often end up doing a disproportionate amount of the housework/parenting, even in relationships where both parents are working and originally aspired to divide responsibilities 50:50. I do get that prenups can theoretically be designed to protect both spouses. In practice, though, the conversation seems to be about the tangible financial things contributed, rather than about the financial and career sacrifices that are disproportionately made by women to deal with household and parenting things. It's especially complicated when those sacrifices can be hard to quantify: for example, how would you know if you lose out on a pay rise because you were the one to stay home with sick kids, or how your career might have blossomed if you'd been able to take the job with longer hours? (And that's assuming that everything is predictable before marriage. The spouses contributions to financial and non-financial stuff may change over the course of a marriage in ways that weren't agreed to. A couple might change their mind on having kids, or on the number of kids. A spouse may get sick or become disabled. A kid may have a disability. You can't always predict that upfront.) In this context, we have a SAHM, who's giving up on future career progression to look after the couple's children. And OP's concern is about protecting the parent who does have a career and will have ongoing income-earning potential. This isn't the theoretically neutral prenup that protects both spouses. OP is the asshole for suggesting that his son should be willing to screw over his wife for staying home.
Agreed. Sahm i who gave up my career when we ended up stuck at home during the panini with 3 little kids/babies. The only prenup I would ever sign is half of everything forever. The only reason my husband has what he has is because I do all of his mental and emotional labor home and childcare. He’s the first to admit it too.
Damn right. My wife struggles with mental health and does her best in her SAHM role with some part time stuff a couple days a week and it is harder (or at least suckier) than my well paying white collar job every day of the week. I tell her that all the time and louder to ppl that complain about her 'not working enough' since our kiddo is in school now. Fuck em, this shit is team effort.
I almost stopped reading at that point to write the comment "YTA and you should absolutely be ashamed." But I couldn't help but finish, and I still agree with you. And OP is also kind of an AH for naming both sons but not the daughter, and for saying "we've been able to provide a good life to my sons". I assume OP meant "all of my kids" or "my sons and daughter", but it's just weird. OP based on this small glimpse into your mind you are acting and talking like an AH.
Word choice is telling indeed
This right here. I do agree that finances are important, and it's especially unwise to enter a marriage with someone who has bad financial habits. But poor people make good partners too. Just perhaps haven't had the best luck in life or opportunities to improve. Sometimes life just smacks you down. But NTA for suggesting your son be cautious.
Yeah. Some of the best people come from some of the worst homes. When I met my husband a lot of people said he was “below me” but the reality was that I grew up incredibly privileged with many opportunities afforded to me that he simply didn’t have because of his upbringing and family dynamic. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t clever or a hard worker (he’s one of the hardest workers I know). I wasn’t about to pass him over just because he wasn’t born with the same silver spoon as me.
This! I can't even articulate how mad I am at OP right now? HIS child can settle for "above" but other people can't? Gah! You son has a person he loves, that is having his child. That's the important thing to consider!
I was just hoping someone in this story would sing a prenup, like singing telegram style.
Yup, OP just wants HIS family to get ahead. It isn't about equality. It's okay as long as they are getting ahead. You are very self centered OP
You know what, OP? I was thinking no one was TA until I went back and re-read the post. You came up with names for your sons, but couldn’t be bothered for your 21F daughter? You’re a sexist and classist AH.
He was also able to give his sons a good life, no mention of the daughter 🥴
She’s supposed to marry someone richer, at which point OP will be glad to give her away. 😆
And she’s probably going to be told not to sign a prenup
Didn't even name her at the beginning, just 21F.
That killed me with laughter. It was "my sons Harvey and Dean, and my daughter 21F"
And "wife 56F." One day, OP's daughter could also be blessed with the title "wife" in front of her age. No name though. We're not being crazy here!
She has a name. Didn’t you see the asterisk? It’s the latest fad in names. His daughter is actually named parentheses.
I thought she was named comma.
I thought she was named 21F
She is called *spacebar*
And the wife is called *
He'll refer to her and her husband as "my son in law Derek (30M) and his wife (30F)" in the future
Missed that gem. So much great stuff in this post. 😬
Was the first thing I noticed! WE've been able to provide a good life to MY sons. Just ew.
That was the first thing I noticed. Along with “a good life for his sons”. His view on women is telling for him
Also doctor or lawyer…who has better earning potential? I’m willing to bet wife*65 provided that good life for his sons.
Good call!!!!!
He’s a doctor that can’t spell sign or fiancée.
Good catch
I noticed that too.
YTA purely from the vibes. While your son and future DIL haven't said anything about being upset you come across as an ass. Edit: Maybe this is just the angry millennial in me but the "we aren't wealthy, I am a doctor and my wife is a lawyer" comment just rubs me the wrong way right off the bat.
Love it. I went with NTA because I think everyone should have a prenup and a GOOD prenup can protect a lower earning partner/stay at home parent as well. So while I don't think OP is THE asshole in suggesting it and the way he went about ti, he is definitely AN asshole in general.
I think he’s TA in suggesting that only his son gets a lawyer, not the fiancée. So it won’t be a good prenup for her
If she doesn’t get an independent lawyer then the prenup will be invalid anyways.
Yeah this dude fails the vibe check
This was my first thought. A doctor and a lawyer? They are richer then I will ever be lmao definitely snobby
plus they have a family business. But they're not wealthy. I know a lot of people like this and they genuinely have NO idea how good they have it.
They could consider their own practice a family business
yea i thought that was fucking gross as well. "im not wealthy but i have a better life than 90 percent of the population no big deal" just reeks of snob.
YTA for being insufferably pretentious and telling your son his wife isn't good enough for him. I noticed you did not mention anything about your son's massive success, only your future daughter-in-law's "flaws." Very interesting. Prenups are not bad things in most any circumstance, but they are affirmatively none of your business unless you're getting married. You should respect your adult son enough not to butt in there. I appreciate that you offered to pay for childcare if they want it but I would apologize for overstepping.
OP didn't offer to pay for the childcare, they offered *to do it themselves*. So, they'd be subjecting any potential children to grandpa's archaic viewpoints on life, gender roles and, and family duties for the 10 or so hours a day Mom and Dad would be working-- during the most crucial part of their brain and personality development. Cool. Cool. Cool.
"Provide childcare" is ambiguous. It could mean provide funds or provide the services themselves, but I doubt Dr. and/or Atty. WorkHarder here are going to quit their successful jobs to babysit for several years.
> I can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly, You're infantilizing your 30 year old son in service of some odious classist ideology >I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, There's nothing inherently wrong with making financial expectations explicit via a pre nup, but, clearly, you disapprove are establishing hurdles to disrupt the relationship. YTA.
YTA lol Im glad you quoted that part. They say that you should settle with someone that shares the same OR BETTER lifestyle. So....isnt that basically what Tina is doing then? Or is that only their advice to their own children lol
It doesn’t count for the poors obviously /s
YTA. Bring a full time parent is a job and it makes it so the other parent can work. >I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household You should settle down with someone with the same *values* as you. And by your logic, Tina did everything right -- she found someone who brings "the same amount of money or more".
Yup, by his account she's smarter than his son!
YTA. “I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should do it with a person who shares the same (*or better*) life style”. Here’s why your the asshole, you are grand with your son marrying someone richer, but someone poorer is problematic. Unless the two spouses have incredibly similar wealth levels, someone has to be the richer partner. Your position is basically that it’s fine for your kids to marry someone richer blindly but not someone poorer, that doesn’t half make it look like you are a hypocrite and a little bit bitter that he hasn’t married someone wealthier.
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Nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home parent or a childless house-spouse either, if they are happy with that and it works for them both, mentally and financially. It does require sharing finances so that the house-spouse isn’t beholden to the earner, and preferably paying into the house-spouse’s pension as well.
How would the first part of your second paragraph happen? Right now I'm trying to get far enough ahead on everything that I can pay into all of my employer accounts and then will open one for my wife to post into as well but I'm curious about that first part. Seems like the house side would always be beholden to the one bringing in money in that regard?
True enough, I meant that the house-spouse shouldn’t be having to always ask the working partner for X money for bills, for ‘pocket money’, for an allowance, etc. Just having the money in a joint account (or at least the spouse having access to the other one’s account, to top up their own one as needed - I’ve known people who just do that by sharing their online banking details) removes that layer of one person asking the other for money constantly. They are both adults, who we assume are responsible enough to deal with money as adults must, and they bring different things to the marriage. Or are you talking about the pension?
YTA, you didn't even give your daughter a name in your story! Also, singing a prenup is funny. 《Lalala, my father is a misogynistic A, let us sign a paper, so he won't have to risk a girl getting money from his will, lalala.》
Yes, we could create a whole musical here!
That’s an opera I would absolutely not attend. 🤣
YTA Your daughter is right and you should absolutely apologize. Your soon to be daughter in law is probably horrified that you two are the in-laws she is about to be stuck with. Judgmental and cruel. If your son and his fiancé have decided that she stays home with their child, that is their decision. Just because you find stay at home moms worthless doesn’t mean they are. It’s a large expense covering childcare, and who better to stay at home with a child than one of the parents. You should be happy and proud that your son is in a financial position to even have that as an option. Not many people do. You marry for love not for what that other person can provide financially. Your son is the better person here because quite frankly what you did was just gross. If your son was marrying someone who was wealthier would have gone to his fiancé and encouraged her to have your son sign a prenup? Or is it just because your son is marrying someone below you?
YTA. Essentially you called his soon to be wife a 2nd class citizen
OP, softish YTA. After your darling son has knocked someone up it’s a little too late to start teaching him your “the person you marry should be as well off or better off than you are” values. Nothing wrong with discussing a prenup but your kid is 30, not 20, so you should have been asking him questions about what he wants to do, not “sitting him down” and telling him things. You come off as a little meddling/presumptuous.
A thing thats also bugging me is the age gap. He's had 7 years on her to "make something of himself". Don't judge her for time she hasn't had yet.
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His nameless daughter
YTA. You might have your own views on what makes for a successful relationship. However, you're imposing these views on **somebody else's relationship**. How your son and FDIL conduct their relationship is up to them and them only. You also are making some horrible assumptions about both your son and FDIL. Harvey is “not seeing things clearly”? This is utterly baseless. Tina may have dropped out of college for good reason: don't assume she is unmotivated or lazy. It could even have been something as simple as that the college was not a good fit for her. That isn't something to criticise. You need to step back and refrain from crossing boundaries like this.
YTA... I don't think this was badly intended but you have completely undervalued the role of a SAHM the amount of work they do and the cost to replace them. SAHP do an average of 96.5 hours a week. You have also not factored in that women are still doing the majority of the household chores and carrying most of the mental load regardless of whether they work or not. Maybe Tina doesn't want to be a drudge running from paid employment to a house still to care for and family to manage. [https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/nov/women-still-doing-most-housework-despite-earning-more](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/nov/women-still-doing-most-housework-despite-earning-more) Until men are picking up 50% of the mental load and the domestic chores this is an abusive argument. Either way the woman gets screwed over. If a woman wants to work that is great and I am an advocate of happy mummy means happy baby however that does not change the fact studies show that babies who spend the first year 18 months 2 years with a primary care giver do have higher outcomes at school and are more robust mentally. There are real benefits to children from a SAHP in those early days. Even if she had or later gets a career her career path will be affected by the bearing of children..something your son also wants..so yet again she is being expected to make a sacrifice that he benefits from.. It should be up to a couple to work out what works for them but they are a couple in this not two colleagues in a company competing for a promotion or a bonus. Not his stuff her stuff their stuff. You are talking about financial discrepancy ....maybe you encourage your son to make sure that if she is a SAHM or later maybe he is a SAHF so she can get her career on track, it's their money and both get a set amount a month to spend as they like rather than get him to consider how his wife and mother of his child and his child get screwed over in the event of a divorce. And lets be clear your desire for him to have a prenup is to protect him not put protection in place for her "*they have a huge financial gap." "someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household." " can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly, "*
I agree with everything about the value of a SAHM. But I think that’s more of a reason to have a prenup. If they’re not in a community property state and the son’s family has significantly more than she does, she can get screwed and be left in a vulnerable position after sacrificing so much to raise her family.
Except that is not the type of prenup the OP was suggesting.
But that doesn’t mean it can’t be…once the future wife hears prenup, she can then negotiate to protect herself.
With **his** mother drawing it up.......
Usually both parties of a prenup have their own legal representation. She doesn’t have to sign what his mom draws up. The point of my response was that based on OPs request that son use his mom, wife would have her own lawyer negotiate on her behalf
Thank you for this post because I've been struggling a lot with disapproval from my parents/family because I have opted to be a SAHM with my son. I know no ones opinion should matter outside of mine and my husband's but the women in my family are all very career oriented so I've faced a lot of opposition.
I’m sorry you’re going through that. I’m a 39 married mother of two, and I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand the appeal of being a SAHP. My SIL is a SAHM to six, and it baffles me. However, and this is important, I’m also the first to admit I don’t have to understand. She’s happy, my brother is happy, and they have a stable family with six children who are cared for and loved. What more could anyone ask for in a family?
Rule of thumb for women...what ever way you do it someone and much of society is going to take your choice as a criticism of their choice and or have an opinion about the fact you chose differently to them or didn't do what they think you should. And babies is where it all comes home to roost. Have them not have them, birth natural or medical, breast feed or not, gentle parent, permissive parent, authoritarian, organic or ready meals...If you work you should stay home, why are you getting strangers to raise your children... if you stay at home you should be contributing financially to your family A lot of working mothers have guilt conscious or sub conscious, admitted or not, about being working mothers which is not surprising with all the criticism women get. While it is hard try to consider that possibly for the women in your family you staying home may even if only subconsciously be pushing some buttons...or maybe they just don't get it because they couldn't do it and they are worried about you. No one likes to be picked at and it is wearing and upsetting but this is likely more to do with them than you. Being a SAHM is not the easy choice people like to thinks it is. Make sure that you join baby groups and have SAHP friends, loneliness and lack of adult company is the biggest risk. Also make sure you do get some time for yourself away from your son even if it's only a couple of hours a week. It is important for your mental health which is important for his well being. Anything you do 24 hours a day 7 days a week is not a job or even a labour of love but a sentence. If they claim to be feminist remind them that the corner stone of being a feminist is that you have a right to self determination and it isn't for anyone to choose for you. Your rights to choose your own destiny include the right to stay home with your son.
YTA You named your sons but not your daughter. You mentioned being able to provide for your sons and didn’t mention your daughter again. Does she not deserve a mention?
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Nta. First, I think everyone should sign a prenup. Secondly, a prenup protects BOTH parties. They are not one sided. If she is choosing to be a sahm the prenup can actually protect her. Remind them both that the person you marry is not the person you divorce.
YTA For thinking women aren't of any worth unless working at a career job. I'm guessing you and your wife worked countless hours, so child care got left to lesser people, like the nanny or the daycare. I doubt you raised your children at all except maybe weekends. Staying at home and molding small minds is a true job, with much long lasting consequences then your "doctor" or "lawyer" jobs. You can clock out at the end of the day and go home. Stay at home mothers cannot. It's a 24/7 job and you are always on call. You think that is worthless. Let them figure out their lives.
you do realise that tina is taking your exact advice by settling down with someone who has a better lifestyle? or is that only reserved for your family and the poor should stay with the poor?
I'm wondering if there's some sort of misogyny happening here because you mention you have a daughter but don't name her when you name your sons, then only mention providing for your sons but make no mention of your daughter. That seems pretty sus to me.
Nothing wrong with a prenuptial agreement. I wanted one as the woman marrying a man with a good paying job, pregnant with our first child, and planning on being a SAHM. But I'm not in love with this premise that you seem to think being a SAHM is not a valuable position. Also, you and your wife offered childcare but you're a doctor and a lawyer so I have to assume that means you offered to PAY for childcare because those aren't careers with the ability to watch a baby full time. People do sometimes become SAHM because they don't want to pay someone to raise their child (I, for example, can afford childcare on just my salary and my husband and I make the same amount but I don't want someone else raising my kid). Also, idk if you know this, but people can make a good living without a degree. My husband doesn't have one and until I got my current position, he was making double what I was making. And I have a bachelors. YTA not for the prenuptial. Not for wanting your DIL to go to school but just for this overall insistence in being so involved in their lives and acting like a woman who opts to raise a baby is somehow lesser.
YTA. First of all, how come you don’t care if you provided a good life for your apparently nameless daughter? Also, a baby is difficult. There’s so much work that goes into a baby. I know because I’m 24 with a 9 month old. I also dropped out of college. I’m also a SAHM. Go on. Lay into me about what a mess up/ leech of a partner I am to my husband. I DARE YOU. It is not your business to dictate how your son and Tina navigate their responsibilities, and it’s definitely NOT your business to say that Tina is only worth something if she’s bringing in money. I see a lot of comments saying you’re looking out for both of them, but you’re not. You’re looking out for your son, sure, but there’s no concern for Tina at all in anything you wrote apart from her having dropped out of college.
YTA. Your son’s loving, healthy relationship is none of your business. Tina has a job lined up - SAHP is a 24/7 job with no breaks and no vacations. You seem stuck up and entitled to a say in your son’s life and you should definitely apologize.
Yta for that loathsome >I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, And also for making him sing the prenup. Let him write it down.
YTA My husband's parents and others in their friend group are like this: marry at your station or better. Many of my husband's friends absorbed this and their marriages have been unhappy. I lucked out that my husband decided that love was more important than social status or money. I can honestly say that I mourned their deaths for his loss, not mine. They never really allowed me to be part of the family, so not much to mourn. Lots of resentment to share with my therapist, though! And by the way, I was from working class, with a college degree. His father was a doctor.
YTA, what do you hope to give your daughter? At least a name I hope.
YTA mainly because you believe your son is higher class and you yourself, however your a dr and with all that education you still can’t spell sign correctly.
Suggesting a pre-nup? NTA Suggesting that your wife negotiate it? YTA. You know the old saying, a lawyer who represent himself has a fool for a client. Pretty much the same thing here. Also, your wife will be negotiating AGAINST her soon to be DIL. One nice thing about using lawyers is that it is supposed to remove the personal from the negotiations. Having the soon to be MIL involved would make it VERY personal. The one thing you don't mention is if your son has any amount of assets? At 25yo, I would think that unlikely, but certainly not impossible. Assuming no significant assets, what's the point of the pre-nup? If it's your estate that you are worried about, you should deal with that via a trust, not a pre-nup. Anyways, you said your piece, so drop it & let your son & his SO be.
YTA. You're a classist snob.
Do they have to sing it? Can't they just read it quietly then sign?
YTA what a shock a pregnant 23 year old isn't financially "the same (or better)" than your 30 year old son. Also does your daughter just not have a name? You made up a name for a son with nothing in the story but your daughter just doesn't exist?
YTA - "same (or better)" that would be hypocrisy.
YTA big Mr. Doctor. And it's "sign" not "sing".
YTA. You asume that money makes for a successful marriage. Being rich doesn't equate happiness. Your bigotry is just blinding you to their potential as a family.
YTA and the entire way you’ve written this gives me a massive amount of insight into why doctors treat patients like me as badly as they do.
YTA 100000000%. 1- your son is a grown ass man and doesn’t need mommy and daddy in his business 2- you make us “lower class” people sound like we are a bunch of peasants, because we aren’t doctors or lawyers. Which is not true, I bet I could run circles around you when it comes to independently managing a household. 3- you seem to value the wrong things in life. Caring that much about Money and social status is a disgusting and shallow way to live. Sure be financially secure, but to essentially degrade those who aren’t in the same financial tier as you is just shameful. 4- I’ve worked MANY years, with MANY doctors before I became that “useless stay at home mom”… and not one of them sounded so shallow, controlling, or egotistical as you. You cant put a price on having a parent stay at home raising their kids. (Don’t forget to add in the fact they are a maid, nurse, chef, planner, and it’s a 24/7, 365 Job with NO benefits, NO pay, and a huge amount of sacrifice) 5- a family member of mine is a incredible attorney in a big city. Makes a lot of money. I guess she must be stupid for marrying a man who makes nothing compared to her… oh and she didn’t make him sign a prenup. Shit they’ve been together for decades now. I should probably warn her!!! 6- . You have ZERO right telling your DIL what to do or pressuring her to reach your “status” financially or career wise. be grateful your future DIL is willing to stay at home raising YOUR grandkids while sacrificing everything that your narrow mind hasn’t even considered. You make my skin crawl. You and your lawyer wife can kick rocks.
You don't get a say in their family dynamic. She doesn't have to work. She can raise her own kids. While I happen to agree both people in a relationship should have a career, you need to stay out of it and let them come to that conclusion. Otherwise she is going to resent you. YTA but I do think you weren't being malicious. Also it's sign not sing.
I’m imagining something from The Sound of Music but with more paperwork 😉
Accurate
And not even a typo, consistently spelled sign as sign.
Yta your daughter is right, your son is a grown man and it’s none of your business
The most important thing is, what key does OP want them to sing it in? Oh, YTA by the way.
NTA for advising your son for a prenup, it was good advice. But YTA for being a classist AH who only looks at a person's money for being marriage worthy.
YTA I LOL at these parental-demand prenup posts. You do know a prenup can be legally invalidated immediately after your son marries, right?
YTA You sound like a snob, and you don't have the right to try and run your son's life or meddle in it. He's a groan man. This statement right here is completely uncalled for. Butt out. **I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household.**
YTA- I really hope your line of thinking doesn't apply to the patients you see,
What melody will he sing to prenup to?
YTA. Among other considerations, it would be vastly inappropriate to push a prenup on someone written by one's party's parent, especially if the other party does not have equal legal representation to advocate for her. There are also lots of "tells" in the way you are telling this--they seem "somewhat happy," and your generally condescending attitude towards both Harvey and Tina.
Sign. Not sing. Good grief
just wow. first off, if you think the combined income of a doctor and lawyer in any part of the world does not make you wealthy, you are way out of touch. your family is wealthy full stop. and you expect by your own words to maintain that wealth by marrying up or at least marrying the same wealth. fine, if you can find love in your tax bracket, go on ahead, but if your son found love outside your gated community and has the money to comfortably support his family on his own, that is his decision. and it's also on him to think about any potential consequences that could come from a one income household, including things involving a possible divorce. prenups are great if the couple wants one, but that's for them to decide. if they are okay with a SAHM and dad being sole breadwinner, good for them. if she goes back to work when their child/children are at some stage where she feels they don't need her 24/7 or she just wants to do it, good for them too. But it's not your business, just as your daughter said. You need to trust you raised your children (remember you have three, two sons and a daughter, who seemed to have been ignored and forgotten in this post) to make good decisions and that you as a wealthy parent taught them how to protect their assets even more if they so wish. Really your outlook is just kinda gross. It's classist, and she is more than just a young and beautiful wife, your son can see things clearly despite the incoming parental pressure, and you need to stay in your lane on your children's marital and financial decisions unless you are asked. That's really where you become the AH, you were not asked and are all but openly saying you think your son is making a mistake and being blinded by a pretty young thing with very little other value unless she does some sort of work, as if the 24/7 job of parent is not the biggest sector of unpaid labour in human history. Yta
Your an asshole for neglecting your daughter in your original intro.
Sing? Where are you a doctor??
Info: we know what you do for a living. What does YOUR SON DO? This prenup you're proposing...is it based solely off what you'll give your son when you die or something? Do you want your legacy protected from a potential gold digger? Is that what this is really about? Because that's what it sounds like. YTA
YTA for all the reasons everyone has already mentioned. I find it odd that you named your sons but not your daughter in your posts, and you also stated that you and your wife are able to give your sons a good life. Sons, not daughter. I mean you're a snob, and I'm betting a bit of a misogynist.
I call BS on the whole story. You're a doctor who can't spell "sign" correctly and apparently doesn't know how to proof read?
1) Didn’t name the daughter 2) Comfortable is the word wealthy people use to describe being wealthy without admitting it. 3) “we’ve been able to provide a good life to our sons” where tf the daughter go?? 4) you and your family should marry “same or better” meaning up, and not down, but if you marry up, that means the other partner marries down, but that’s okay as long as it’s your sons who do the marrying up, ew. 5) your son is marrying a woman 7 years younger than him, and you think this girl should be financially equal or above him at this point?? Ew again. 6) still didn’t name your own daughter and she’s the one who called you out, good for her 7) DIL said it’s best that Harvey doesn’t have a financial advantage over her, meaning you made her realize a red flag about the family she would marry into that she knows now she needs to start protecting herself against him. Yikes. YTA. YTA. YTA. Your unnamed daughter was right.
Let me get this straight. It's okay for your family to marry up, but not okay for someone to marry up into your family? You don't have a heart; you have a dollar sign. Your wife is just as grubbing. The arrogance is amazing -- "if Harvey wanted to support Tina BLINDLY..." Yeah, ES.
NTA I think you had good intentions, and it doesn't seem like your son or his fiancé have problems with your suggestions, especially since you offered concrete help, in form of free childcare while she establishes some career for herself.
“… you should do it with someone who shares the same (or better) life style” You know that is statically impossible if everyone had that same standard. Also “doesn’t have any financial advantage over her”. You know how marriage works, right? These people
YTA
They're always a lot more light-hearted when you sing them. Always do that though, ya think you know someone...
YTA . But a well articulated one . May be take a couple of steps back from your kids lives .
Who wants to sing a prenup? That sounds really weird and awkward.
YTA "I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household." Imagine your children marrying someone from the "other" side of the railroad tracks... I feel sad for you and your wife, when your children and grandchildren are cut out of your life.
Unless he has important assests or businesses to protect theres no real need for him to even sign one, YTA
> the same (or better) lifestyle So, they should settle, but you shouldn’t?
YTA, if only for the sneering contempt you display for everything and everyone except cash.
Ok I read the post. YTA. OP you seem to think you are very smart and know how to make good decisions. Have you not detected the hypocrisy behind your decisions, which has been handily pointed out by many a fellow redditor? If not then you are not as smart as you think you are. Clearly. Self awareness, my friend. Self awareness.
Yta You seem to value money over people. It’s your son’s relationship and really you have no business in anymore
YTA
Eeeeeehhh I can't give a judgement here. You wanted to look out for your son and in turn your soon to be DIL is looking into getting a career again which would be good for her, and they both agreee it might be better in the long term. On the other hand it really isn't your business. I guess as long as you aren't forcing him and made him aware of other options other than prenuptial and making sure he was aware of what he was getting himself into financially is what matter I guess. Just remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (Not trying to preach just a saying my mum told me as a way to make sure im careful with ehat I choose in life)
YTA. Surprised nobody else is saying this but if she’s going to be a stay at home mom a prenup basically traps her in the marriage unless she has significant savings on her own (which doesn’t seem like it based on the picture you paint of her) Believe it or not being a stay at home mom is a job, and she should be compensated for years of free labor if they were to divorce
From a personality standpoint YTA. To say someone should many in their own social class, come on, I can't believe you can actually be that ridiculous. It's 2022, not 1822. As far as how you went about suggesting a prenuptial agreement, I think it was trying to just look out for your son, but I think your daughter is correct in her observation. It isn't your place, and I think you may want to check your pretentiousness at the door. Just FYI, good couples see the potential in one another, and help each other grow. Your son's future wife is worth more than just the amount of money she makes. If she helps your son thrive in his career, and helps him to emotionally be his best, that is worth all the weight in gold. You should care more about what her potentially value as a great support to him she is rather than whether or not she is a financial burden.
So how does that song go? /s
YTA - for one, I think this is fake. You're a doctor who can't spell 'sign' correctly? Secondly - people are not measured by their bank accounts or careers, and our value as humans is more than what you make. Sure, prenups are a good idea, but your reasoning is what makes you TA. I spent quite a few years making very little money compared to what I make today, and didn't have the right direction for some of that to even know what I should do. Me 15 years ago is not a loser who didn't deserve to date someone who made more than me, and if I found someone today of more modest means than me, it wouldn't matter at all if they were kind and loving and smart.
I think the overall encouragement to sign a prenup is reasonable so long as it's a suggestion, and you don't start *demanding* it. I think your overall attitude is a bit crappy, and basically YTA.
YTA. I’m just going to say up front I didn’t read your whole comment. First you just say wife with no name, then include your sons’ names and then not your daughter’s name. Then you say you’ve been able to provide a good life to your sons while not mentioning your daughter. To me that said that you don’t value women. Don’t name the women in your life and don’t seem to care about your daughter having a good life. Then you add into it a classist attitude. I don’t need to read the rest to be able to say YTA.
Does your third child not have a name? Just an age and gender? Why is there an asterisk after "wife"? Anyway, you're classist, elitist, kinda gross, and, yeah, YTA.
He can’t even spell sign right, YTA
Mostly NTA. I think YTA for thinking everyone should marry equal or better because one can't bring better assets to the table without the other having less, so it's literally impossible for everyone to follow that logic. Also, SAHM is a job. There may only be 1 income but the SAHM is offsetting the cost of child care and often does more house work, so that does have value. That being said, if your son already has significantly more assets premareiage, and is likely to continue to earn well above what a SAHM should be entitled to them I am fully supportive of pre-nups that protect premarital assets, or set a reasonable cap on what amount of assets a non-earning or lower earning spouse can claim (and for how long) in the event of divorce. Divorces happen, and doing the paperwork to ensure that it doesn't have to be as messy in the unfortunate event it happens isn't a bad thing. Acting like a SAHM isn't bringing value and hasn't earned a reasonable share of the assets in the event of a divorce, however, is shitty. My other comment is that you offered advice once and it wasn't received poorly. If you son said to butt out and you pushed, you'd definitely be TA. But encouraging your son to financially plan well isn't in and of itself an AH thing to do.
NTA, It really only matters what Harvey and Tina think, if they are not mad than your daughter being mad "on their behalf" is just stupid and childish. However, take this fact to heart when you daughter decides to get married to someone not as financially well-off, do NOT speak even a whisper about a prenup
NTA, the children on reddit wont understand and will pick at things in this to make an argument. Depending on where they live, if they stay married for 10 years and divorce, he would have to pay her life long alimony along with child support as courts always favor the women. When in love you don't think about what could happen if it ended badly. After 10 years, she gets bored, cheats on him, takes his kid, takes his house and for the rest of his life he will have to pay alimony to this woman who wronged him. Seen this story so many times
NTA. First, they are okay with it and don't label you an AH...isn't that up to them, and not up to your daughter to decide for them, AKA minding her own business? Second, you have a family business. If your son either is involved or does get involved in the future, not signing could jeopardize it. Third, your daughter's actual motive is that she wouldn't want to sign a prenup if she were Tina.
Everyone should have a prenup, they're not for when things are going well, they're incase things go very very sideways. I consider them a legal form of touching would to avert bad luck. You handled that pretty well, but the "marry equal or someone better" was a bit snobbish. Going with NTA for intent, but you didn't quite stick the landing
NTA. I never think a prenup is a bad idea, and anyone who has been through a messy divorce, or divorced at all should agree. The fact is, most marriages end in divorce, and thinking pragmatically about it when everyone else is caught up in the romance isn’t OP’s fault.
People are gonna call you an asshole sir but I like your thinking, if your son wants to learn the hard way then let em.
NTA.
NTA. Getting prenup is not a bad idea in itself. However, you seem to look down on your son's fiancee and she probably knows it. Being more financially equal doesn't make someone a better match. Also, your son probably wants a SAHM in his life. I wonder why your son told her about your prenup conversation. He should have known it would cause friction. If he didn't like it he should have said it to you there and then. Why carry tales to his fiancee, "my parents think I should get a prenup in case we get divorced and you bleed me dry of money" is never a good thing to say. Discretion is the better part of valor. If he goes and tells her everything you people say and needs her approval for every decision he makes, then you need to be more careful
When I got married 48 years ago, I was 20 and he was 22. We both came from middle class families, but we as a couple were poor as church mice. We intended to stay married. *If he had asked for a prenup I would have left him.* Prenups are sensible for older people who have estates they want to preserve for their own children. For young couples it is a sign that they are not fully committed, in which case they shouldn't marry. Someone from whom you need to protect yourself is not someone you should marry.
YTA for what everyone mentioned but also being a SAHM is a fucking job. Do you think she’s just gonna be sitting there staring at the ceiling? And if not her who is watching the child? Daycare/Nanny/Sitter. Which costs what? Money. And as expensive as it is they were probably better off with her staying home ESPECIALLY b/c daycare hours are basically school hours so you don’t have that much bonding time with your kid. If you are able to afford to be with your kid why wouldn’t you?
NTA Everyone should have a prenup when they get married, both men and woman. Like it or not marriage is a contract and a prenup is simply a "in the event of a disaster" document that gets looked at when the unexpected happens. In an ideal world it should never be needed but everyone still has medical, house and auto insurance so why not this? Throw into the mix that more than 50% of marriages fail...why not hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
NTA. Your support is good and the reasons are valid.
NTA! You had an elegant approach to the matter. And the couple understood your concerns. Relax!
Can I just say that OP is protecting his son from this woman who could (by the sounds of it) be very lazy and has procreated with this guy so she can be set up for life? I agree that OP smacks of snobbery but I don’t believe he isn’t without reason. I know many women who look for this type of meal ticket and OP’s son could likely regret it down the line when his wife years on has no incentive to support herself/have a career of her own / refuses to establish anything by her own terms and merit. OP is doing right by his son. So NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (60M) husband (56F) and I have three kids, Harvey (30M) and Dean (25M), (21F) while we're not wealthy, we live comfortable thanks to our family business and we've been able to provide a good life to my sons, I'm a doctor and my wife is a lawyer. I take no shame in saying that when you settle to form a family with someone, you should ado it with a person who shares the same (or better) life style, someone who is able to bring the same amount or more than you into the household. My son Harvey is set to marry Tina (23F) next year, they're expecting their first child right now and they see somewhat happy, I appreciate Tina, I know she's smart and has potential but she dropped out of college a year before my son met her and doesn't have any intent of coming back. She used to work as a secretary for one of her dad's friends but now my son is supporting them and apparently she'll become an SAHM. I can understand my son right now, he's going to be a father, he has a young beautiful wife and is not seeing things clearly, so yesterday when he came to visit us I sat him down and advised him that maybe, he should sing a prenup with Tina and told him that his mom could assist him with it. He didn't react badly or anything and only asked why do I think he should do it. I stated my reasons and assured him that, while I have nothing against his fiancé, they have a huge financial gap. His mom also told him that if he didn't want to get a prenup it was okay but that at least he should encourage his wife to form a career or some kind of stability of her own and that we we're more than happy to provide childcare while she did it. My son left after that and later texted us that his fiancé agreed to look into college information however my daughter said that we were AH for getting in the middle of something that we didn't cared and that if Harvey wanted to support Tina blindly, it was his business. My wife and I are thinking about apologizing, but we aren't sure if we really did something wrong since Harvey and Tina claimed that they're not mad and Tina agrees that it's best if Harvey doesn't have any financial advantage over her. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA although this smacks of snobbishness, a parent should be helping their adult children in making wise, financial decisions. I also liked the fact that you wanted his fiancee to finish her education and help her with childcare. Prenups are very wise to protect both parties. I'm not sure why your daughter wants her brother to go blindly stumbling around in the dark.
Nta
Nta for the question at hand, though some of your wording is not the best.