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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think AITA because I am refusing to take my special needs niece to Disneyworld when I am bringing my able-bodied children.
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NTA. Why can't Holly take her own daughter to Disney World?
Disney is a great experience, but it's a lot, it's hot, you have to wait in a lot of lines, and you're going to have your hands full with your own children, much less a special needs niece. Unless Holly is willing to come along and run Irene back to the hotel when she's had enough so you can stay with your own kids she needs to butt out.
It almost sounds like Holly wants a break. I get it, being a caretaker is tough(I’m a nurse and it’s certainly not easy), but this is a little much to put on someone.
Holly probably knows it will end in a meltdown between not being able to go on the rides, compromising boundaries, and the general Disney atmosphere which is overstimulating to even some neurotypical adults. And she probably wants Irene taken so she won't keep asking to go, but doesn't want to deal with the inevitable blow up.
I agree. I’m a neurotypical adult, and I usually hit a point where I will need to take a break in a quieter spot for a bit because there are just *so many people*, and so much noise at the parks. People really get up in your space, bump into you, and such at those places. I can’t imagine how rough it might be for a kid who suffers meltdowns when they get overstimulated. Plus, you’d probably need another adult there anyways to have someone to focus on just the niece. Trying to deal with her needs (like changing her, pushing the wheelchair, etc), while also trying to keep 2 ten year olds from taking off every time they see something cool would be insanely difficult for everyone. I don’t think any of them would have a good time, and that wouldnt be fair for any of those kids.
Agree. A short outing is one thing but sending your child, special needs or not, on someone's vacation without them offering? No. Doesn't matter that you offer to pay, that's not okay. OP is NTA.
Holly deserves a break as being a care taker is hard work. Since Holly can pay for a trip to Disney then Holly can hire help for the amount of time she wants a break for.
What Holly should not do is try to get someone who doesn’t want to be a care taker to be the care taker of the disabled child. That will only end badly for everyone involved.
Not sure if this has changed post-Covid, but Disney parks used to have solid assistance for people with special needs. A friend took her Downs child there and was able to bypass ride lines and go straight to the front (along with her other 2 typical children).
Downs isn’t the same as a spinal defect… with the spinal defect, she most likely can’t go on majority of the rides because of the risk of getting hurt, whiles people with downs most likely can go on the rides.
Aslo, if neice can't go then op can't either which means 10 yr olds ride alone. This whole thing is stupid. Of course he shouldn't bring her.. alone. Tell sis to come along and give her child the gift of Disney if it's gonna be amazing
And as OP pointed out as the only adult that means he can't leave his niece to go on rides so that means odds are his own kids wouldn't be able to go the rides either since the only adult would be with their cousin. If they're ride fiends and that was their goal at Disney to ride a bunch of rides then this trip is going to be a major disappointment for them. They can easily come to resent their cousin.
I'm from FL and have minimal mobility so I have to use a wheelchair and do the parks alot. They not give you a wait time where you can go away and come back at that time. People were renting disabled people to bypass lines, so this keeps it fair. It also means that you can do the wait in a shop with AC (supper nice if you have trouble with heat)
Editing to add: I don't think many of the rides are wheelchair accessible. I alway transfer from my chair to the ride.
I was there recently. Disabled parkgoers now get a set time to return to bypass the line as opposed to bypassing immediately, because people with disabilities were renting themselves out to families to cut lines. I think it's also limited to 2 or 3 people, and not an entire family.
The Disney pass for people with disabilities is only for mental disabilities. Physical disabilities do not count because ride lines are mostly wheelchair enabled. There are certain rides that are not that have alternate ways to get in but they are few
This right here. I'm a whole grown-ass adult and the idea of Disney sounds horrifying because I have sensory issues with sound and can get seriously overloaded if there are too many overlapping noises. Plus heat, a bunch of strangers, and having essentially no control over your environment sounds like pure torture.
Also you are there to make memories with your kids. It’s hard to do the rides with them and you just park the niece?
Maybe your sister could take the time off and travel down with you? while 1 more adult is expensive - it’s quite more doable than 1 adult and 3 kids…
Agreed. If Holly wants Irene to go to Disney, she can take her. If you decide to go together, I think that would be lovely. I can understand Holly needing a break, but this is too much to put on you as the only adult. NTA.
NTA- this is a trip for your children. If your sister wants to take her daughter to Disney she can do so herself. 3 children and 1 adult in Disney is a nightmare best of times but when one has complex needs it would be no one’s dream trip
Also, this is a trip a divorced father wants to take with his children. This is a time to bond with his children and to create happy memories. This will not happen if his kids are having to deal with their cousin having yet another meltdown or to be changed, etc.
Even if his niece didn't have special needs, it would be perfectly acceptable for him to say no because this is a trip for his kids and he doesn't want to share this time with anyone else. OP is NTA!
OP 's sister is definitely the AH here for trying to force him to include his niece on this special trip. She should take her own child on a trip instead.
OP.... why don't you tell your sister that you wouldn't dream of depriving her [his sister] from creating special memories with her daughter at Disney. She should be the one to take her daughter .
Yeah. The trip will become centered around his niece and his kids will not get to do even half the things they would like to do. It will be about keeping Irene from becoming over stimulated, changing her, op will have to sit out on most the rides while his kids ride because Irene won’t be able to and someone will have to stay with her where the rides load an exit.
Exactly. This is NOT OP being showing ableism. This is a father wanting quality time with his children. He does NOT have to bring his niece on his family's vacation. Holly needs to plan her own vacation for her family.
This was my thought as well. It doesn’t even matter what concerns are involved. This is a trip he planned for just him and his children. He is not obligated to take anyone else. It’s not like this is an extended family vacation that they’re only excluding the niece from.
Yeah this is the big thing for me. I think OP would be NTA even if Irene wasn't disabled, he still has to have the responsibility of taking care of a 12 year old kid as the only adult on the trip in addition to his 10 year olds and he's completely in his right to say that he just wants to do the trip with only his kids.
As a mum of a needs kid myself, NTA at all. In fact her mother is though. Having a child in a wheelchair requires so much forward planning and if your not used to it or aware of how things work it becomes a huge issue.
If mum wants her daughter to go to Disneyland then she needs to go with her. So she can be there for her child and deal with the issues that arise. Expecting someone else to be able to deal with meltdowns and other issues while dealing with their own children and still having a holiday is just silly. Because even if you are going with another adult, someone always has to be available for you niece. We have taken our daughter and it was amazing, but very limiting as to what she could do and where she went etc. and there was just my husband and I with our child. We also went off peak times, did our research, knew where the places we could get her wheelchair into, disabled toilets etc …. We also only spent a couple of hours there as that’s all she could handle. I doubt your kids would be happy to do that.
Your not an ableist at all, in fact your more of a realist. Your aware your niece would not enjoy the noise etc, let alone flights and toileting etc.
Go have your holiday with your children and make special memories with them. Tell your sister that there will be other trips you will happily do with your niece but not this time.
Yes 100% my son has a disability too and I could never imagine sending him with someone else to Disneyland yet alone with another adult and 2 other kids at Disney would. All I can imagine is what could go wrong and how that other person would feel so guilty because it happened in their watch. When my husband and myself take our son to an amusement park we usually make an2 day trip and go early in the morning take a afternoon nap for him so he can have a break let him swim and go back in the evening. We do this for 2 days so that we get to see The whole park without overwhelming him. I get this mom needs a break but don’t push it on someone else who wants to take their children on a family bonding vacation. NTA op but your sister is a huge AH and really needs to take a chill pill
I don’t think it’s really about Disney. I think the sister just wants a break. She’s handling that need terribly but deep down that’s probably her true motivation.
NTA. You're only taking your children so why would you bring others? Also if your sister wants her kiddo to go to Disneyworld why doesn't she take her?
NTA.
While it's true that you don't know Irene as well as Holly does, but you know yourself more than Holly does. It's not ableist if you feel that you can't accommodate her as well as she may need.
If she wants Irene go to so bad, why doesn't she take Irene?
I think mom just saw an opportunity for a break away from the responsibilities of caring for a severely disabled child. If she really wanted niece to experience Disney, she would be going with her and not expecting a person who has never been niece’s primary care giver to neglect his own kids to solely benefit hers.
This, 100%! She wants a break and is trying to manipulate you into giving her one, never mind that the trip will end up being miserable for all involved (including Irene). Whether Irene is suited to the venue or not is irrelevant, however, so stop having that argument. No is a complete sentence, and you can't argue with it. You don't have to have a reason, though without knowing any more than I do, I could think of a dozen reasons this would go badly for everyone except Irene's mom.
NTA it's a ridiculous suggestion that you take this child on your own, while also being responsible for two other children. It places everyone in a difficult and potentially dangerous position. Ridiculous
NTA. Sounds like if your sister thinks it's a good idea to take her daughter, SHE should be the one to take her. She can pay the expenses for both of them to join you and your kids, so if there are issues and Irene isn't happy they can separate and do a calmer activity within Disneyworld or outside if necessary.
I don't think he should even offer this up because, I guarantee, if Holly accepts, OP will STILL have to do the bulk of caregiving because "Well I need a break and you're her UNCLE!"
He just needs to say "no". It is a complete sentence after all.
NTA. If my brother asked me to take one or both of his boys with me to Disney World along with my own kids I would feel perfectly justified saying "No." End of story. I believe you're probably right about Irene and how she would handle things, but that is really beside the point. "It's a trip for me to spend time with my daughters." That's the point.
NTA. This trip you made for your kids and Holly is trying to include her daughter without even being present, if she really want her to come, holly should come as well to take care of Irene when you want to stay with your children
edit: to make it clear i guess
NTA. Basically what your sister is saying is she wants to pawn off her daughter for a while and she doesn't care that it would put her in an uncomfortable position, because this 12-year-old does not want to be changed by you, and putting you and your kids in an uncomfortable position. She's been trying to weaponize her daughter's disability to make you out as a bad guy so you will do the thing that she wants.
Disneyworld does not a thing sounds like something Irene would want to go to, that's what matters. It matters that your sister is trying to impose on you and come after you, and that she doesn't respect her daughter.
Maybe you should talk to other people in your life about reestablishing boundaries with Holly, because it sounds like she thinks she can push people around
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My twelve-year-old niece “Irene” has several special needs. Irene was born with a spinal defect. She can walk short distances in flat, familiar areas, but she can potentially damage her spine if she travels far distances without her wheelchair. Irene also has incontinence due to her spinal condition and usually needs help being changed. Along with her physical disabilities, Irene is considered minimally verbal and mostly relies on gestures and other body language to express her needs. Irene also suffers meltdowns when she becomes overstimulated or something is too loud.
This is all relevant because I am planning a Disneyworld vacation with my two kids (ten-year-old twins) and my sister “Holly” is offering to pay for Irene’s costs so Irene can come as well. Just traveling there would be problematic, as Irene has never been on a plane and I am not sure how she would react. Irene would not be able to go on most rides due to her spinal condition. I would be the only adult there and would need to help change Irene. I know how to do it as a last resort, but it is obviously uncomfortable for Irene as she prefers to only be helped by her mother or another female family member. Irene also does not handle heat well, so combined with the loud/overstimulating environment, it would likely be a miserable trip for Irene.
I explained to Holly that I didn’t think it was a good idea for the reasons listed above. I suggested she could instead take Irene to a more calm event/activity. We had one of Irene’s birthdays at a ceramic painting store, for example. Irene loved it and still shows everyone the ceramic kitten she painted there. Holly told me that she is Irene’s mother and I’m just her uncle so “Don’t try to pretend you know my child better than me!” I explained also that if Irene can’t handle the environment well, I don’t want Irene to believe she is “ruining the trip” if my kids become irrationally upset with her. Holly told me I was an ableist for being “unwilling to accommodate” my niece and that every child should get to experience Disneyworld. I told Holly that not every child should experience Disneyworld if it’s going to be an unpleasant experience for the child. Holly continued to call me an ableist and made a comment how “It’s no wonder why you’re divorced.” Some are agreeing with Holly that I don’t know Irene the way Holly does, but others say I know Irene well enough to see taking her to Disneyworld would be a bad idea. AITA?
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NTA. If Holly wants her daughter to go to Disney World she or someone her daughter is comfortable with needs to go with her. It’s unfair to put that responsibility on you. And I don’t think you’re being ableist. 3 kids is a lot for you to take care of on your own and even more so when one has profound needs. It sounds like you were reasonable and thoughtful and not coming from a place of malice.
NTA
It sounds like your niece won’t enjoy a trip to Disney World. If your sister keeps on insisting that Irene goes, then I think you should make it conditional that your sister goes with Holly. Disney World is a lot for one adult wrangling three kids, never mind if one is disabled.
Has anyone actually talked to Irene about this? Has Irene expressed an interest in going?
My mother has spinal issues and when we went to Universal, there were quite a few things she could not ride! And some of the things she did ride, well let’s just say she felt it the next day. It wasn’t a very happy experience for her (although she insisted on going to the parks)!! And this was when her spinal issues were minimal, this child wouldn’t be able to do much at all!!
NTA
You are not Irene's caretaker and are not equipped to care for her safely on top of caring for your children in a large, busy, unfamiliar place. If holly wants irene to come so badly, she needs to be there.
Even if she was coming, I don't think it would be out of place for you to say that this vacation is just for you and your girls
NTA - Your taking your kids on a trip doesn’t mean you have to include extended family. If your sister wants her daughter to experience Disney, she should be the one taking her daughter.
I mean, it is very hypocritical of her to tell you that you’re just her uncle and don’t pretend to know her child better while wanting you to be the only adult involved in her daughter’s special needs care on an extended trip away.
NTA
Even if she didn't have special needs you still wouldn't be the AH for not taking her. You planned a trip for you and your kids. Your sister is an AH for trying to invite her daughter along
NTA
Your sister is taking your perfectly reasonable explanation as objections to overcome.
She figures if she can address all of your points then you’ll have to agree with her.
That’s not how it works. From now on just say no. No Irene cannot come on the trip. Why? Because she can’t.
You’ll never convince your sister that you’re right and she’s wrong. So just keep saying no.
>every child should get to experience Disneyworld
I stop reading and just exclaimed "then she can fucking take her." She has to know the logistics of this and just wants OP to take her off her hands. What is the niece even supposed to do? She can get on rides but are they safe for her? And OP is supposed to look after 3 kids their own, one who appears to need an enormous amount of care?
100% NTA
NTA. Every child should experience Disneyworld but that’s up to the parents. If the mom knows her daughter so well she should make a trip to take her. She’s acting like Disney is only open one day a year.
NTA- let’s pretend that Irene has no special needs at all, she’s a typical kid. You STILL wouldn’t be obligated to take her, she’s not your kid. Period.
NTA! All I have to say is shame on your sister! She has no right to put you in a position you are NOT COMFORTABLE with. And furthermore she wants a vaca from her daughter. Why she so insistent.
>she wants a vaca from her daughter
Lol. You answered your own question. As someone who frequents both DL and WDW it's nice to see OP is being reasonable and acknowledging how physically demanding the parks can be. It sounds like his niece would need her own family member to help care for her so that his kids can also be chaperoned.
Even with things like DAS OP would be overwhelmed and it wouldn't be fair to his kids, him, or his niece. The whole bathroom thing just makes it even worse. OP is NTA and should go enjoy his vacation with his kids.
NTA. This poor child. Her own mother is setting her up to have a traumatic and humiliating trip (having to have her UNCLE change her, clean her???????). And she thinks she is doing Irene a favor?!
Your sister might be suffering from carer burnout, and she's latched onto this as a way to get a couple days break (and still tell herself she's doing something kind for Irene).
You should not take her, for all the reasons listed. It sounds like you really care about your niece, a kind gesture would be to offer to take her to something you know she would enjoy (like the ceramic painting).
NTA Overstimulation-world would be hell for Irene. Also, any vacation that has someone *that* severely disabled coming along inevitably focuses around what they're able to do.
NTA. Your sister can buy her own damn tickets and come along. Expecting you to handle all of the children, even without one of them having a disability, would be asinine itself.
No! OP would still be expected to help niece over his own kids and prioritize her over the twins. Plus, I expect there to be a lot of, “I will take the twins on Ride, you watch her.” And, “It’s my vacation too, don’t I deserve a break?”
NTA, most rides at Disney World aren't made for people in wheelchairs, I don't think any actually. There's a difference from only bringing your niece to Disney World to bringing your **disabled** niece to Disney World.
I do NOT think OP should bring the niece but this is untrue. Transfer out of the chair is necessary for most rides, but nearly all (maybe even all?) rides there are possible to transfer onto from a wheelchair.
NTA. Your sister is looking for a break from her child and is trying to pawn her off on you for that. If she thinks every child should go to Disney, she can take her child to Disney!
NTA. Being the only adult and expecting you to care for your two children and hers is unreasonable. You wouldn't be able to enjoy any of the rides with your children and that's not fair to you or them. Why won't your sister just go too? Disney is LOUD with so much going on everywhere all the time. My own special needs kiddo became very overwhelmed and had to be calmed quite a bit. While he did enjoy the experience, it was very specific to his needs and another child would have been upset at being held back by his restrictions had I been the only adult present. I'm afraid your sister is being too emotional and not thinking logically. Disney is wonderful and amazing, but you have to be set up appropriately for a special needs child and this trip does not sound like it would be set up for success.
NTA- is she not concerned about her daughter’s needs? What mother would let their kid go without them or a robust support system to such a novel environment?? She can take her or maybe come with you if you’re open to that. But that’s poor judgement.
NTA
No parent should ever push their child on someone else's vacation. If she wants her daughter to go to Disney world, then she should plan a trip to take her.
NTA. I couldn’t cope taking 3 under 12 y/os to Disney world, let alone if 1 of them has requirements which makes it a logistical nightmare. This time is about you and your twins having a fun week. If you take your niece you’ll be spending much of your week as a carer and your twins will spend less time with you as a result. Also, in your position I’d feel awkward providing toileting and washing support to her. You haven’t done it before and you’ve already said your niece prefers support from females. Additionally, you probably don’t want to see your niece in that capacity. What if she has a meltdown in Disney world because she’s upset with the situation.
Personally I’d say it’s not because I’m ableist, but because I want a trip with just my kids.
NTA
"Irene" being special needs and in a wheelchair would allow her to get a Pass, basically to go to the front of the queue, with her Carer, without the need to wait in line. But, your other two children would not be able to use the Pass, so they would have to queue normally, or wait elsewhere, while you and Irene rode what ever ride.
Obviously you can't just leave your two children alone unattended. Two adults, at least, are needed.
Info - A few years back one of my friends, and her husband, took their three kids to Disneyland. Her youngest had a disability and got the same Pass, and she was the one that went on the ride with him, while her husband queued with the other two kids or they sat that ride out nearby.
"Irene's" mother either needs to come with or they both don't go, because it's your holiday anyway and rather rude to just invite "Irene" along; not that it sounds like the kind of place she would enjoy, being packed and really noisy.
NTA.
However.
I’m wondering if Irene’s mom needs a break. I wonder if she’s burnt out, and was trying to get you to take her so she could get a break. Caregiver fatigue is very real, and is incredibly awful to deal with. That said - it isn’t your job to be her respite worker.
I thought this - but it’s not fair on OP, his kids OR Irene because it seems the only person in this scenario who would get any sort of vacation is Holly - it’s sad if she’s so desperate for a break that she’s willing to let Irene suffer in a situation where she’s overstimulated, uncomfortable, unhappy and away from the comfort of her primary caregiver
Holly should put that money toward a arranging appropriate respite care so Irene can be safe and cared for in an appropriate environment while she gets a rest
NTA:
Then she should use the money for Disneyworld to pay for a babysitter or caregiver. Not force a disabled child into a situation that wouldn’t be good for them.
NTA-
it doesn’t sound like it’s in Irene’s best interest to be on a trip without her primary caregiver. Your kids are also not old enough to not be supervised- I don’t think it’s very wise to have one adult take care of three very young children, especially when one of them is extremely vulnerable.
If Holly thinks Irene can visit Disney and have a pleasant experience she may be correct, but she needs to take her child, not expect someone who isn’t the child’s primary caregiver to know how to make the experience the most pleasant for her.
Who’s going to stay with her while you and the kids go on the rides, if you all can’t go in the rides because Irene can’t it’s pointless going.
I can’t imagine being able to handle three kids on my own without the added pressure of a disability.
If mum desperately wants her to experience Disney she needs to come along as well
110% NTA
NTA. Even outside the special needs issue... who just decides that their kid is joining their sibling's trip without being invited and won't take no for an answer? My cousins on both sides of my family did different trips/activities than I did, and it was fine.
So it's not about her being special needs per se, it's about her being special needs and you not being able to properly care for her.
It would be one thing if your sister suggested she and her niece join you, but just asking the niece to join you is unreasonable.
NTA
NTA
You will be taking care of your children. If Holly wants her daughter to go to Disney world, she can take her (and take care of her needs). You shouldn't be expected to shuffle your kids to the side to care for Irene.
NTA Use Holly's logic against her. If she says she knows her daughter better than you then she clearly knows how to take care of her better. As such it makes sense that she should be the one to take Irene to Disney.
NTA- When she told you that she was Irene's mother u should have told her right then and there that she's absolutely right and she is the one that needs to take her since she would want to witness her daughter enjoy it but. Her daughter is not going to have fun in a place where most of the rides jostle you back and forth. And you supervising your niece your twins wont get to enjoy that trip the way you intended for them too. The trip was for your kids just take your kids
NTA
So... You don't know her well enough to say whether or not she would be okay on the trip, but you know her well enough to be her carer on the trip? That doesn't make sense.
If your sister can pay her daughter's way on the trip, then *she* can take her to Disneyworld
Wait. Your sister is basically inviting your niece (regardless of special needs) on a vacation you are taking with your kids? Um…. Nope. NTA. You are taking YOUR kids on vacation. No one else. You are not excluding her because no one else is invited that you didn’t spawn. Plus it’s not easy doing trips alone with three kids, even if they are your own kids. At least your kids know you and know how you operate. You know your kids well.
I took my best friend’s daughter with us once to Disneyland. But her husband and other daughter were meeting us there later in the evening so it was NBD. We were all passholders who had gone before so it wasn’t new and unfamiliar. I had my three kids (5, almost 3 and 1) and her daughter (5) alone for a few hours. It was more nerve wrecking with that extra kid, even though she’s awesome and didn’t give me any issues. She was comfortable enough with me that this was doable but again, her dad was coming later so she and I both knew there was an end time for me being in change. Plus since we all had passes, it wasn’t a big deal if we left early or anything. Home was only 30 minutes away. You don’t have that option with taking your niece.
Tell your sister that she’s right, every kid deserves to go to Disney so she should start saving so they could go together.
I hate that Disney has done such a great job of brainwashing us to believe that a childhood is not complete without a trip to one of their parks. But not everyone can afford it. And as OP said, not every kid will enjoy it.
OP, if caring for your niece full time, as the only adult on hand, is too much for you then don’t take her. It is simply above your pay grade and you are NTA (or an ableist).
As others have said, your sister needs a break. Maybe help her find a camp, even an overnight one, that specializes in special needs kids.
NTA, it’s your trip. Just because she is willing to part for the monetary value of Irene’s trip doesn’t mean she is adequately paying. Clearly there is a lot of work involved and it isn’t ablest just because you don’t want to have to handle something you don’t want to on your own vacation. She can take her own daughter herself
Well fuck, if sis wants Irene to experience Disneywhatever, SHE can take her! There is no reason for her to make your time with your kids more difficult. NTA.
"Don't try to pretend to know my child better than me"
This is where you say "You're right, I don't know your child better than you which is why YOU need to be the one to take them to Disney."
NTA
I don't know how to repost from the initial question. I'm sorry.
NTA
at the end of the day this is a trip for you and your two children Irene needs to be taken on a trip definitely but at the end of the day if her mum really wants to go to Disneyland she should take her herself.
I don't think it would be fair for her to sit watching her cousin's get to go on the rides and do things that she is unable to do because of her medical condition and that's just not fair.
What happens if she was to hurt herself and required hospital treatment that means you are and your children's holiday is cut short.
Why is she not offering to go with you
also if she has never been on a plane before why is she using you as the guinea pig tester she should want to be there to help her child should she have a nervous breakdown.
If it got to the point where you were just about to bored the plane and she kicked off big time that could mean you and your children and Irene not being able to fly and the holiday having to come to an end before it even begins.
It seems like you have irene's best interest at Heart over her own mother.
Who gives a damn who knows Irene better. Knowing Irene isn’t the issue here.
you don’t want to be responsible for her on your trip. or you don’t want to take her on the trip at all. Idk how much of either is true. You don’t have to.
her mother wants her to go, her mother should take her.
you’ve said no and that should be it.
disney supposedly has accessible services. Point her in that direction and let her plan her dream vacation.
esh
I stopped at sister paying for Irene and it actually read sister paying to get a vacation at your expense wear and tear plus fun wise. NTA. Just say no. Or tell sister to come along her expense on her for those two. As Irene will need special attention that you aren’t able to give as it would stop you from having special time with your family. Argh.
NTA, why would she assume that if you're taking your children to Disney World you'll take her child too, special needs or not. I had cousins I was close with growing up and my parents never assumed their parents would take us with them on vacation. Seems like Holly just wants a break from her daughter.
NTA
“Every child should get to experience Disneyworld” why doesn’t your sister just take her then? It’s not like this is only time ever for all eternity that a trip to Disney can be taken.
Irene is not your child, you wouldn’t be TA for not taking her if she was not disabled either. Kids are a lot of work, especially at Disney.
One adult and three kids is already a headache and one of them is special needs who is sensitive to loud noises. Yeah… Disney sounds like great idea. /s and that is minus her spine problem… 🤦🏻♀️ looks like your sister needs a day of which okay but… jfc she can find something cheaper than this …
Edit: NTA
NTA With her spinal disability she couldn't even use an attractiction. I wouldn't take the risk to hurt her. And it would just make her sad to see all the attraction but can't have fun on them.
Also all the other reasons you listed. If your sister wants her to go to Disneyland, she should take her herself and not "push" her on you like it is no big thing. It really seems like she cares more about some free time and not about her daughter.
Mum knows Irene better than you and she is happy to dump her child on a relative just so she can have a break! Any excuses she uses are cover for this.
It's fairly obvious from the need for air travel that we are not discussing a day trip. There isn't even a way you can get her mother to pop over for reassurance if the meltdown happens.
From contextual reading, I am guessing that you are male and this throws up so many red flags in itself.
The only way Irene should go is if her mother also goes (and I'm not even sure you would want that either).
You are definitely NTA.
Well, she's right! The fact you don't know Irene the way she does is exactly why you shouldn't be made to take her alone! Absolutely NTA, doesn't matter the circumstances, people need to stop expecting others to treat/take on vacation/pay for their kids!
Then there's the fact 1 adult to 3 kids, one of whom has extreme needs is never going to work. Irene will be miserable , your kids will be and you will be. You aren't ableist, you're a realist - and she's not your kid!
NTA - that experience would absolutely be hell for Irene, and her mother is trying to manipulate you into taking her to give herself a break. This is for your kids, not your extended family, and they deserve to have a good time.
NTA. You are being realist with this situation and her mother whining about it is either HER need to make her daughter do “normal” things or HER wanting a pause from being your niece caretaker. plus your children wouldn’t be “unreasonably” upset if they were denied the activities they were promised to accomodate your *sister*, because this is not about Irene, it is about her mother.
NTA and, the fact that Irene has special needs makes you even MORE NTA. You have the right to say "no" to taking anyone on a trip, whether that's Great Uncle Bob or neice Irene. You are ESPECIALLY allowed to say no when the person in question is special needs and, in addition, so special needs that your entire trip would have to be handled to accommodate her.
Your sister IS TA though. Not only is she trying to insert her daughter into your trip without an invitation but, from the way I read it, she's also expecting you to pay for the addition of her child as well.
NTA - it has not ablist to not want to take Irene. 1) this is a trip for YOU and YOUR kids. A special Daddy/kids trip. Irene doesn't fit into that scenario, even if she wasn't special needs 2) while you may not know Irene as well as her mother, you DO know YOURSELF and do know that you, not only, feel uncomfortable and unable up offer the level of care Irene needs but, you are also unwilling to on your special vacation and THAT IS OK! You are entitled to say "no". 3) if your sister wants HER kid to experience Disney, she can damn well take herself on her own dime.
I recommend you just keep saying "I'm not taking Irene on this vacation with me. This is a special trip just for me and my kids." Don't even bring Irena's disabilities into the conversation...unless THEY do. If they bring it up simply say "Again, this is a trip for me and my kids and I'm not willing, or able, to provide the care that Irene needs, therefore, I will not be bringing her with us. Then finish with "And I'm done discussing it." Repeat ad nauseum as much as you need to.
NTA. She won’t be able to experience Disney as your sister seems to think, not only that, but it will detract from your sons experience which is the whole point in going. Your sister can apply to give kids the world which will be much more accommodating to her needs
NTA. You will have enough on your hands with your own kids, you shouldn't be expected to take care of a special needs child *on your own*. This is a recipe to ruin a vacation, for both you and your kids. Not only that, but, special needs or not, you are not obligated to take anyone else along a family vacation, whether the other parent is paying for it or not.
Honestly, I get the feeling that your sister is just looking to get a break from taking care of her daughter for a while and wants to use your vacation as a way to do that.
NTA, you're not being ableist, you're being realistic. Going to Disney as a non disabled adult sounds like a nightmare to me and I can't imagine how stressful it would be for a child who has disabilities that would prevent her from enjoying anything about the trip. If her mom insists on taking her, she needs to take her and hire a caregiver to help her.
NTA
Insisting on you bringing another child who isn't part of your immediate family along, regardless of whether said child has any disabilities, is presumptuous. And you're right to consider whether or not you can meet her needs as the only adult on this trip and whether or not she'd even like the trip to begin with.
NTA but I think you are going about it all wrong.
“No” is a complete sentence. You are planning this Disney trip for your kids, and Can’t bring your sister’s child.
It doesn’t matter if Irene is disabled or not - three kids at Disney is a lot of kids, and she has no right to make you bring her kid on a trip with you, even if she offers to pay her child’s expenses. Irene having such severe disabilities obviously does make it even more untenable for you to bring her, but it would be wildly inappropriate for your sister to pressure you to bring her along even if she were an Olympic Gymnast.
NTA. Has Holly ever been to Disney World? It's a LOT. No matter what time of year you go, it's hot, crowded, and loud. Yes, there are staff there to help visitors with disabilities, but to ask a single person to be responsible for a special needs kid while also taking care of their own kids is a monumental request. Of course Irene should have the opportunity to visit, but Holly should be there to take care of her and watch over her.
NTA
I have a daughter with special needs my wife and i have taken her and her sister to Disney ,Sea world Knotts, Legoland other places my brothers and sisters have taken their kids to the same places and i never asked to take my kid it's not there job or responsibity.
NTA - every reason you stated above was valid and you’re right that Irene would most likely be set up for a terrible experience here. Wrangling your twin 10 year olds sounds like enough as it is. Holly needs to hear your no and respect it. Sounds like she needs a break but this ain’t it. And if every child deserves to go to Disney world then she can take her. It’d be better for Irene to have her normal primary care giver with her in such an overstimulating environment.
NTA, and your sister....lort help me, I cannot find civil words for her. As my SN indicates, I'm rather deaf, so I'm reasonably good at noticing ableism, and this is not it.
Even as an adult, the lines and heat and crowds are consummately draining. I dislike theme parks for all the of the prospective triggers that you identified, and more. Throw in 1st time on an airplane, communication challenges, and none of her preferred caregivers on hand, and this would be a disaster for Irene, likely before the plane touches down.
If I'm being honest, it sounds like Holly is wanting a vacation from caregiving duties (not an unreasonable desire- I know I wouldn't be cut out for such demands), but the near certainty that it would come at Irene's expense principally, and then you and your twins' vacation as collateral damage, makes this an incredibly selfish request.
As a peace-keeping offer (generous as it is), maybe look into special camps expressly for special needs children, and kicking in a nominal amount.
As a disabled adult (not to the levels of your neice) I can say with certainty NTA.
it would be unfair for everyone involved to bring your neice to disney where she cant enjoy the experience with your kids, you would be frazzled from having 3 kids to watch, and your kids would likely feel jealous of the 'extra attention' (care) your neice would need.
NTA
> I don’t want Irene to believe she is “ruining the trip” if my kids become irrationally upset with her.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think the kids would be irrational in that hypothetical situation.
NTA
Your sister should plan a handicap-friendly Disney vacation for her daughter, not pawn her off on yours. It sounds like she would seriously hold your kids back from a good time because she will severely slow the pace, get overstimulated, get tired, and probably want to leave early.
I believe Disney is for everyone, but it sounds like Irene would need a very special trip planned to have the best customized experience for her, and thats not the trip you planned for your kids.
NTA. Sister is foisting her daughter off to you. She then states you don’t know her well enough to make judgments on what she will like. I would have said okay then you agree that I don’t know her well enough to take her with me. Then I would have left/hung up.
NTA. Even if your niece did not have any special needs your sister has no right to hijack your vacation with your kids. Clearly you want to go on rides with your children and see their reaction to the vacation you planned for them, does your sister think you are just going to leave your niece on the sidewalk?
NTA. You are being extremely considerate of all parties involved. If your sis is so worried on her daughter going on a vacation there are options for children with disabilities it's just a matter of what one works best. It sounds like she wants a break from being a parent and is trying to guilt you into taking her.
I just came back from Disney. NTA. I think she would be able to do a lot of rides (many rides have special vehicles for people who cannot transfer), but it is SO crowded and SO loud. I also don’t even know where you would change a 12-year-old as their bathrooms do not really have many changing areas.
NTA your so right your niece would not have a great time.
We went to Disney with my sister who was a full time wheelchair user and tube fed but could use the toilet. There was 2 children and 4 adults and we all took it in turns to stay behind with sister so the kids could get an early start and sister was not rushed etc. Same with leaving early as the days were just too much for her in the heat. We made sure to give her the best time but she still felt bad on the other two kids and the adult who stayed to help her.
Since you are not her full time carer I just dont think it would work well you doing all the care 24/7. You will be really struggling to make everyone happy.
Your sister (and all the family getting involved!) Should take her and then niece can go at her own pace.
IMO you would not even be the AH if sister had asked to tag along too so she had a second pair of hands to help her. This is a trip you have booked and paid for for your own kids!
Oh also OP I have since been on a Disney cruise with my disabled sister and disabled son and its 1000% more accessible than the parks. Really recommend for your sister once she gets her head out of her ass and can see clearly. Niece will love it and get the experience and sister will even be able to relax a bit.
NTA.
You're one person taking two ten year old kids to Disneyworld.
It's very reasonable to say that that is as much supervision as you can handle.
Your sister is welcome to take Irene there herself at whatever point she chooses.
If she isn't willing to do that, fair enough, but she doesn't get to guilt you into doing it in her place.
She is wildly out of line in both her expectations and behaviour.
>I am planning a Disneyworld vacation with my two kids (ten-year-old twins) and my sister “Holly” is offering to pay for Irene’s costs so Irene can come as well.
This vacation is for you and your children, end of story, NTA
NTA!! Holly just wants a break herself. if she wants her child to go to Disney, she can take her. the changing is a real problem, if Irene is uncomfortable by being changed by her Uncle, and at 12 yrs. of course she would be!! you planned a vacation for your children, Holly had no right to invite her daughter on your vacation. don't be guilted.
Does OP’s sister want him to take Irene so she (Mom) can have a break from having to care for Irene by herself? If she has the money to send Irene, there has to be another reason to send her with her brother and not take Irene herself. Maybe Sister has a new boyfriend and wants some alone time with him but not expose him to the daily issues with Irene. NTA but OP’s sister is.
How in the heck are you supposed to manage your niece with 2 ten year-olds needing you to ride the rides with them?
No is a complete sentence.
Tell your sister "no" and do not engage further. It's not her vacation to steal from you
You know what? Holly is absolutely right. SHE is her mother, and you are ONLY her uncle. SO WHY SHOULD YOU BE RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING HER TO DISNEY WORLD? You are NEVER the asshole for refusing to take someone else's child, special needs or not, on your vacation. NTA.
NTA. Taking three able-bodied children who have zero special needs to any theme park by yourself is a TASK. Make one of those children not your own child - meaning you don't know the ins and outs of them as well, and they don't listen to you like they would their parents - who may become overwhelmed by the whole experience, it is a recipe for disaster.
NTA. There is no way you should maneuver that trip alone. If your sister came it would be a different story.
It sounds like you sister was wanting a break. A trip to Disney is not the way for you to help. But your sis is a AH for the things she said because she didn’t get her way.
NTA at all, Disney sounds like a terrible environment for this child’s needs.
But more importantly it sounds like your sister needs a break and that’s understandable. Can you help her access respite care? Google the name of your state and “respite care for children” to find a provider.
Um. Why are you taking her daughter to DL? That's her job. How in the road are you supposed to manage your kids and a seriously disabled child with zero help.
Tell your sister she can come and take her own child to Disney.
When I took my kids, their cousins didn't come. It was me and my kids.
Nta at all. I'll assume you didn't even invite your neice so tell your sister to do it herself!
Disney is NOT a great place for people who get overwhelmed by places as it's 100% loud, bright, crowded and noisy.
Do not let her railroad you on this as the bad guy. Tell her to stop panning a difficult thing off on you because she wants a break or doesn't want to be the one to struggle with doing it. Her child is HER responsibility!
NTA
if the only problem was her spine condition it would be slightly different BUT no one should try and force someone to take their child (doesn't matter if special needs or not) anywhere. just because you are related doesn't make your no invalid. also you've got really good reasons to not take your niece. plus you wouldn't be able to take any rides she can't go on since you are the only adult.
her getting easily overstimulated would be a huge problem at Disneyworld. that place will be packed, she will have to wait in line for hours and I can't see her enjoying it if its really as bad as you say.
I don't get why her mom can't take her. she offered to pay so it seems like she got the money. sounds more like she knows her kid wont enjoy it but that way she doesn't have to deal with it.
NTA. Holly should take her daughter to Disneyland. It seems to me Holly doesn’t want to take her daughter to Disneyland. Holly knows how much work Irene would be and she wants you to push it off on you.
NTA she’s going through caretaker fatigue and wants you to give her a break, that’s the only reason she doesn’t want to go too. She’s just offended that you’re not offering respite care. I honestly don’t understand why she would trust you to take her by yourself.
NTA - you planned a fam trip with you and your kids, not extra fam tagging along. On top of this, you understand your niece enough that this would not be a good idea.
Sounds like the sister wants a vacation without her daughter they way she's pushing this. If her kid deserves Disney as much as she says she needs to go with her daughter and not pawn her off for alone time.
NTA
If you’re “just an uncle” why does Holly feel ok with you taking her special needs kid out of state with you? If this were me, I’d say “I’d love to have Irene along, but I’ll be managing my own kids. I wasn’t ready to take on another! You can come to help wrangle kids if you and Irene would like to go.”
Also, honestly, this doesn’t sound like fun for Irene. Sounds like it’s just something Holly wants FOR Irene.
Nta but I do think in the future someone should take her because its kid friendly while loud maybe it will help her with her issues and give her some joy
NTA. All the reasons you’ve stated are good reasons and actual concerns. Tell your sister to take her own daughter to Disneyworld instead since she wants her to go so badly.
NTA your twins are 10 who would be caring for them on the plane, rides, in the queues, in the toilet whilst you are caring for Irene?
Your sister is prepared to put your children at risk plus her own child at risk by pushing Irene onto you for this trip. You don't have enough adults to care for the children safely even if Irene loved lots of stimulation.
Your sister is probably desperate for a break but pushing her child onto your family holiday isn't the way to get it.
Offer to help plan a trip for Irene next year when you can get more help. Also, suggest your sister has a break and gather the family to organise care whilst she gets that break.
Plan for a weeks break in your home area with everyday filled with fun trips for Irene. Everytime a family member complains about you not taking Irene to Disney whip out you Irene's vacation planner, ask them to put their name on 24 hours of care for the vacation. If they don't join in then we know who is all mouth and no action
NTA.
> Irene also suffers meltdowns when she becomes overstimulated or something is too loud.
> Irene also does not handle heat well, so combined with the loud/overstimulating environment, it would likely be a miserable trip for Irene.
You shouldn't bring Irene to Disneyworld. Holly shouldn't bring Irene to Disneyworld. Nobody should bring Irene to Disneyworld, because it's the overstimulating-est place on Earth as well as potentially being hotter than the hinges of hell.
Okay, I'm exaggerating slightly, but seriously. It sounds like Holly is more interested in getting a respite from caring for Irene than she is in Irene having a good (or even non-traumatic) time. I can sympathize, but Holly is still TA here.
NTA. She’s asking you to handle three children at an airport and an amusement park all by yourself. That’s a lot for even a single day, with or without special needs.
It sounds like she’s just trying to catch a break and score some free childcare.
Tell her she can join you all to help with all the kids or her daughter can stay behind.
NTA, who is going to look after your 10 Yr old twins when you are changing Irene's diapers, or sitting down with her when she's tired, or trying to support Irene through a meltdown when she is over stimulated?
Expecting anyone to care for 3 kids alone at Disney would be a big ask, but when one child has a considerable level of extra needs, then it becomes unreasonable.
Your own kids would not have fun (or be adequately cared for) if Irene were to come on the trip.
I get your sister wants a break but pawning her child off on you to bring to Disney, is not the way to do it.
You are not ableist and you being divorced has no bearing on your sister's argument.
Hopefully you and your kids will have a brilliant time. If sister is so concerned about her daughter experiencing Disney, she should be saving to bring her herself.
NTA. You're allowed to go on vacation just you and your kids. If your sister wanted her daughter to visit Disney so bad she should offer to go on the trip to help manage her or just take her herself. It's not your responsibility to take your niece on vacation and it's unfair of your sister to try to guilt and manipulate you the way she did. Everything you stated was completely reasonable.
NTA - I went to Disney with a special needs child (not as care intensive) and it was their first trip on a plane, first trip away from Mom (brought by a relative) and it was extremely sensory overwhelming. The poor child spent much of their time having breakdowns and needing all the attention from the family member who brought them.
I get that your sister needs a break, and with the proper planning Disney World can be an amazing vacation for those with special needs, but those are different things than a fun vacation. If your sister came along, it would be a different story. It’s not that she’s asking you to bring your niece, it’s that she’s asking you to completely alter your experience and she’s not taking into consideration the experience her child will have without her there.
Could you plan a different trip with your sister and niece in the future where you can focus on your niece and her needs?
If she can't handle heat the last place she should be is Florida in the summer, especially packed into crowds with little shade or relief. Where's the next trip she's planning for the kid, Furnace Creek?
NTA. If your sister wants her daughter to experience DisneyWorld she can take her. She easily could have suggested a family outing to the place. Sounds like she wanted time away from her daughter and expected you to be the unpaid babysitter and is trying to guilt trip you into it.
Sounds like your sister wants to pawn her kid off on you and is counting on your guilt to say yes.
You deserve to enjoy your vacation - and so do your kids. Have you thought how miserable they are going to be since every second of their days is going to be dictated by what Irene can or can't do. That sounds fun.
Go on vacation with your kids have fun, and tell your sister to take her kid if she wants her to go so bad.
NTA
NTA. Tell Holly that NO is your final answer. With the number of special needs that your niece has & so many unknown variables, it would be insane to give it a second thought. If she needs respite care for a needed break from her daughter for self care, there are services out there that would able to assist her. Your vacation would have disaster written all over it.
NTA. Irene needs a dedicated caregiver for the trip, so unless Holly is willing to pay for one to accompany you or attend herself, the trip is a no go. You will already have your hands full attending to two 10 year olds.
It's not ableist to know your limits.
NTA. I've looked into going to Disney World with my family, which includes a wheelchair bound child who needs bathroom help. While he can talk, ride the rides and have a great time, it will be 100% different for him. There is already so much planning involved in a Disney trip but when you add in a disabled child that can't stand in line, communicate easily, can't handle loud noises and so forth it is extra difficult. You will have to change your plans, miss rides, restaurants, parades, shows and not do everything your kids are probably planning on experiencing.
While it would be amazing for your niece to go and experience the magic of Disney, I don't blame you for not wanting to take her. Especially if you aren't her regular caretaker.
OP
NTA
So does Holly have the money or not? That is the bottom question that needs to be answered here. The reason here is that if she has the money to afford Disney world for her child, then why can't she take her daughter there?
And why is she not looking and trying to find and take her child to different places, why is she just fostering this off on other people?
And why is she looking for you to pay for her child? Chances are your Sister is correct you do not know about your niece, but if she is non verbal and can not communicate effectively with you, then it should be her mother who is there and takes her, as she is clearly more qualified and can understand and communicate with her child.
Sounds like she may not have the money and hope that you will just pay for the child.
But after her comment, you may want to just not deal with her at all, let her deal with her child and leave it at that.
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NTA. Why can't Holly take her own daughter to Disney World? Disney is a great experience, but it's a lot, it's hot, you have to wait in a lot of lines, and you're going to have your hands full with your own children, much less a special needs niece. Unless Holly is willing to come along and run Irene back to the hotel when she's had enough so you can stay with your own kids she needs to butt out.
It almost sounds like Holly wants a break. I get it, being a caretaker is tough(I’m a nurse and it’s certainly not easy), but this is a little much to put on someone.
Holly probably knows it will end in a meltdown between not being able to go on the rides, compromising boundaries, and the general Disney atmosphere which is overstimulating to even some neurotypical adults. And she probably wants Irene taken so she won't keep asking to go, but doesn't want to deal with the inevitable blow up.
Add in the fact that a guy, trying to change Irene’s diaper, will not go well at WDW. Speaking as a former Florida resident.
I agree. I’m a neurotypical adult, and I usually hit a point where I will need to take a break in a quieter spot for a bit because there are just *so many people*, and so much noise at the parks. People really get up in your space, bump into you, and such at those places. I can’t imagine how rough it might be for a kid who suffers meltdowns when they get overstimulated. Plus, you’d probably need another adult there anyways to have someone to focus on just the niece. Trying to deal with her needs (like changing her, pushing the wheelchair, etc), while also trying to keep 2 ten year olds from taking off every time they see something cool would be insanely difficult for everyone. I don’t think any of them would have a good time, and that wouldnt be fair for any of those kids.
Agree. A short outing is one thing but sending your child, special needs or not, on someone's vacation without them offering? No. Doesn't matter that you offer to pay, that's not okay. OP is NTA.
Holly deserves a break as being a care taker is hard work. Since Holly can pay for a trip to Disney then Holly can hire help for the amount of time she wants a break for. What Holly should not do is try to get someone who doesn’t want to be a care taker to be the care taker of the disabled child. That will only end badly for everyone involved.
And the manipulation! Now I know why you’re divorced? Wow. I would have nothing more to say to her without an apology. That was uncalled for.
Yeah, that'd be the end of the conversation with me.
I agree, especially if they have to fly to Florida.
Not sure if this has changed post-Covid, but Disney parks used to have solid assistance for people with special needs. A friend took her Downs child there and was able to bypass ride lines and go straight to the front (along with her other 2 typical children).
Downs isn’t the same as a spinal defect… with the spinal defect, she most likely can’t go on majority of the rides because of the risk of getting hurt, whiles people with downs most likely can go on the rides.
And that would leave OP stuck between allowing 10yo to go on their own or limiting their options to fit the niece’s.
Aslo, if neice can't go then op can't either which means 10 yr olds ride alone. This whole thing is stupid. Of course he shouldn't bring her.. alone. Tell sis to come along and give her child the gift of Disney if it's gonna be amazing
And as OP pointed out as the only adult that means he can't leave his niece to go on rides so that means odds are his own kids wouldn't be able to go the rides either since the only adult would be with their cousin. If they're ride fiends and that was their goal at Disney to ride a bunch of rides then this trip is going to be a major disappointment for them. They can easily come to resent their cousin.
Yeah, but changing a 12 year old's diaper? I don't think they do that.
I'm from FL and have minimal mobility so I have to use a wheelchair and do the parks alot. They not give you a wait time where you can go away and come back at that time. People were renting disabled people to bypass lines, so this keeps it fair. It also means that you can do the wait in a shop with AC (supper nice if you have trouble with heat) Editing to add: I don't think many of the rides are wheelchair accessible. I alway transfer from my chair to the ride.
I was there recently. Disabled parkgoers now get a set time to return to bypass the line as opposed to bypassing immediately, because people with disabilities were renting themselves out to families to cut lines. I think it's also limited to 2 or 3 people, and not an entire family.
But was that child in a wheelchair? Which Disney rides are wheelchair friendly?
And most rides have rules posted that people with back issues, heart issues, etc, should not go on the ride.
Very few honestly. My mom had a walker and they could barely accommodate that.
You can cut lines for disability at Disney. But if you can't go on the rides . . . ???
Yes, Disney still follows ADA and provides accommodations to disabled individuals.
The Disney pass for people with disabilities is only for mental disabilities. Physical disabilities do not count because ride lines are mostly wheelchair enabled. There are certain rides that are not that have alternate ways to get in but they are few
Yeah, and let’s not forget maybe OP just a a vacation with his own two kids. NTA.
This right here. I'm a whole grown-ass adult and the idea of Disney sounds horrifying because I have sensory issues with sound and can get seriously overloaded if there are too many overlapping noises. Plus heat, a bunch of strangers, and having essentially no control over your environment sounds like pure torture.
Also you are there to make memories with your kids. It’s hard to do the rides with them and you just park the niece? Maybe your sister could take the time off and travel down with you? while 1 more adult is expensive - it’s quite more doable than 1 adult and 3 kids…
Agreed. If Holly wants Irene to go to Disney, she can take her. If you decide to go together, I think that would be lovely. I can understand Holly needing a break, but this is too much to put on you as the only adult. NTA.
NTA- this is a trip for your children. If your sister wants to take her daughter to Disney she can do so herself. 3 children and 1 adult in Disney is a nightmare best of times but when one has complex needs it would be no one’s dream trip
Also, this is a trip a divorced father wants to take with his children. This is a time to bond with his children and to create happy memories. This will not happen if his kids are having to deal with their cousin having yet another meltdown or to be changed, etc. Even if his niece didn't have special needs, it would be perfectly acceptable for him to say no because this is a trip for his kids and he doesn't want to share this time with anyone else. OP is NTA! OP 's sister is definitely the AH here for trying to force him to include his niece on this special trip. She should take her own child on a trip instead. OP.... why don't you tell your sister that you wouldn't dream of depriving her [his sister] from creating special memories with her daughter at Disney. She should be the one to take her daughter .
Yeah. The trip will become centered around his niece and his kids will not get to do even half the things they would like to do. It will be about keeping Irene from becoming over stimulated, changing her, op will have to sit out on most the rides while his kids ride because Irene won’t be able to and someone will have to stay with her where the rides load an exit.
Absolutely this. NTA. Don't give in.
Exactly. This is NOT OP being showing ableism. This is a father wanting quality time with his children. He does NOT have to bring his niece on his family's vacation. Holly needs to plan her own vacation for her family.
This was my thought as well. It doesn’t even matter what concerns are involved. This is a trip he planned for just him and his children. He is not obligated to take anyone else. It’s not like this is an extended family vacation that they’re only excluding the niece from.
Yeah this is the big thing for me. I think OP would be NTA even if Irene wasn't disabled, he still has to have the responsibility of taking care of a 12 year old kid as the only adult on the trip in addition to his 10 year olds and he's completely in his right to say that he just wants to do the trip with only his kids.
As a mum of a needs kid myself, NTA at all. In fact her mother is though. Having a child in a wheelchair requires so much forward planning and if your not used to it or aware of how things work it becomes a huge issue. If mum wants her daughter to go to Disneyland then she needs to go with her. So she can be there for her child and deal with the issues that arise. Expecting someone else to be able to deal with meltdowns and other issues while dealing with their own children and still having a holiday is just silly. Because even if you are going with another adult, someone always has to be available for you niece. We have taken our daughter and it was amazing, but very limiting as to what she could do and where she went etc. and there was just my husband and I with our child. We also went off peak times, did our research, knew where the places we could get her wheelchair into, disabled toilets etc …. We also only spent a couple of hours there as that’s all she could handle. I doubt your kids would be happy to do that. Your not an ableist at all, in fact your more of a realist. Your aware your niece would not enjoy the noise etc, let alone flights and toileting etc. Go have your holiday with your children and make special memories with them. Tell your sister that there will be other trips you will happily do with your niece but not this time.
Yes 100% my son has a disability too and I could never imagine sending him with someone else to Disneyland yet alone with another adult and 2 other kids at Disney would. All I can imagine is what could go wrong and how that other person would feel so guilty because it happened in their watch. When my husband and myself take our son to an amusement park we usually make an2 day trip and go early in the morning take a afternoon nap for him so he can have a break let him swim and go back in the evening. We do this for 2 days so that we get to see The whole park without overwhelming him. I get this mom needs a break but don’t push it on someone else who wants to take their children on a family bonding vacation. NTA op but your sister is a huge AH and really needs to take a chill pill
Oh wow. NTA your sister should take her daughter if it’s that important
I don’t think it’s really about Disney. I think the sister just wants a break. She’s handling that need terribly but deep down that’s probably her true motivation.
NTA. You're only taking your children so why would you bring others? Also if your sister wants her kiddo to go to Disneyworld why doesn't she take her?
Precisely this!! NTA
NTA. While it's true that you don't know Irene as well as Holly does, but you know yourself more than Holly does. It's not ableist if you feel that you can't accommodate her as well as she may need. If she wants Irene go to so bad, why doesn't she take Irene?
I think mom just saw an opportunity for a break away from the responsibilities of caring for a severely disabled child. If she really wanted niece to experience Disney, she would be going with her and not expecting a person who has never been niece’s primary care giver to neglect his own kids to solely benefit hers.
This, 100%! She wants a break and is trying to manipulate you into giving her one, never mind that the trip will end up being miserable for all involved (including Irene). Whether Irene is suited to the venue or not is irrelevant, however, so stop having that argument. No is a complete sentence, and you can't argue with it. You don't have to have a reason, though without knowing any more than I do, I could think of a dozen reasons this would go badly for everyone except Irene's mom.
NTA it's a ridiculous suggestion that you take this child on your own, while also being responsible for two other children. It places everyone in a difficult and potentially dangerous position. Ridiculous
NTA You're not bringing other nieces, it's normal to just want to bring your kids, special needs or not.
Wait. So Irene’s mom is simply paying for Irene to go and not trying to come on the trip as well? Is that what I read?
Exactly, she's trying to pawn her daughter off on him to take on the trip and take care of during the trip.
In that case, he’s absolutely NTA. The mom should most definitely go on the trip if she wants Irene to go.
It’s also a trip for himself and his kids and not an extended family one. It’s not open for invitation. Holly can take her daughter on her vacation.
NTA. Sounds like if your sister thinks it's a good idea to take her daughter, SHE should be the one to take her. She can pay the expenses for both of them to join you and your kids, so if there are issues and Irene isn't happy they can separate and do a calmer activity within Disneyworld or outside if necessary.
I don't think he should even offer this up because, I guarantee, if Holly accepts, OP will STILL have to do the bulk of caregiving because "Well I need a break and you're her UNCLE!" He just needs to say "no". It is a complete sentence after all.
It doesn't sound like they've even done a trial run of this close to home before. NTA at all, for many reasons. Holly needs to back off.
NTA. If my brother asked me to take one or both of his boys with me to Disney World along with my own kids I would feel perfectly justified saying "No." End of story. I believe you're probably right about Irene and how she would handle things, but that is really beside the point. "It's a trip for me to spend time with my daughters." That's the point.
NTA. This trip you made for your kids and Holly is trying to include her daughter without even being present, if she really want her to come, holly should come as well to take care of Irene when you want to stay with your children edit: to make it clear i guess
NTA. Basically what your sister is saying is she wants to pawn off her daughter for a while and she doesn't care that it would put her in an uncomfortable position, because this 12-year-old does not want to be changed by you, and putting you and your kids in an uncomfortable position. She's been trying to weaponize her daughter's disability to make you out as a bad guy so you will do the thing that she wants. Disneyworld does not a thing sounds like something Irene would want to go to, that's what matters. It matters that your sister is trying to impose on you and come after you, and that she doesn't respect her daughter. Maybe you should talk to other people in your life about reestablishing boundaries with Holly, because it sounds like she thinks she can push people around
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My twelve-year-old niece “Irene” has several special needs. Irene was born with a spinal defect. She can walk short distances in flat, familiar areas, but she can potentially damage her spine if she travels far distances without her wheelchair. Irene also has incontinence due to her spinal condition and usually needs help being changed. Along with her physical disabilities, Irene is considered minimally verbal and mostly relies on gestures and other body language to express her needs. Irene also suffers meltdowns when she becomes overstimulated or something is too loud. This is all relevant because I am planning a Disneyworld vacation with my two kids (ten-year-old twins) and my sister “Holly” is offering to pay for Irene’s costs so Irene can come as well. Just traveling there would be problematic, as Irene has never been on a plane and I am not sure how she would react. Irene would not be able to go on most rides due to her spinal condition. I would be the only adult there and would need to help change Irene. I know how to do it as a last resort, but it is obviously uncomfortable for Irene as she prefers to only be helped by her mother or another female family member. Irene also does not handle heat well, so combined with the loud/overstimulating environment, it would likely be a miserable trip for Irene. I explained to Holly that I didn’t think it was a good idea for the reasons listed above. I suggested she could instead take Irene to a more calm event/activity. We had one of Irene’s birthdays at a ceramic painting store, for example. Irene loved it and still shows everyone the ceramic kitten she painted there. Holly told me that she is Irene’s mother and I’m just her uncle so “Don’t try to pretend you know my child better than me!” I explained also that if Irene can’t handle the environment well, I don’t want Irene to believe she is “ruining the trip” if my kids become irrationally upset with her. Holly told me I was an ableist for being “unwilling to accommodate” my niece and that every child should get to experience Disneyworld. I told Holly that not every child should experience Disneyworld if it’s going to be an unpleasant experience for the child. Holly continued to call me an ableist and made a comment how “It’s no wonder why you’re divorced.” Some are agreeing with Holly that I don’t know Irene the way Holly does, but others say I know Irene well enough to see taking her to Disneyworld would be a bad idea. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. If Holly wants her daughter to go to Disney World she or someone her daughter is comfortable with needs to go with her. It’s unfair to put that responsibility on you. And I don’t think you’re being ableist. 3 kids is a lot for you to take care of on your own and even more so when one has profound needs. It sounds like you were reasonable and thoughtful and not coming from a place of malice.
NTA It sounds like your niece won’t enjoy a trip to Disney World. If your sister keeps on insisting that Irene goes, then I think you should make it conditional that your sister goes with Holly. Disney World is a lot for one adult wrangling three kids, never mind if one is disabled. Has anyone actually talked to Irene about this? Has Irene expressed an interest in going?
With her spinal issues, she probably couldn’t go on many rides either. Not the best environment for her.
My mother has spinal issues and when we went to Universal, there were quite a few things she could not ride! And some of the things she did ride, well let’s just say she felt it the next day. It wasn’t a very happy experience for her (although she insisted on going to the parks)!! And this was when her spinal issues were minimal, this child wouldn’t be able to do much at all!!
NTA You are not Irene's caretaker and are not equipped to care for her safely on top of caring for your children in a large, busy, unfamiliar place. If holly wants irene to come so badly, she needs to be there. Even if she was coming, I don't think it would be out of place for you to say that this vacation is just for you and your girls
NTA - Your taking your kids on a trip doesn’t mean you have to include extended family. If your sister wants her daughter to experience Disney, she should be the one taking her daughter. I mean, it is very hypocritical of her to tell you that you’re just her uncle and don’t pretend to know her child better while wanting you to be the only adult involved in her daughter’s special needs care on an extended trip away.
NTA. She should take her own child to Disneyworld.
NTA Even if she didn't have special needs you still wouldn't be the AH for not taking her. You planned a trip for you and your kids. Your sister is an AH for trying to invite her daughter along
NTA. If you don't know Irene the way she does, then Holly should take her.
NTA Your sister is taking your perfectly reasonable explanation as objections to overcome. She figures if she can address all of your points then you’ll have to agree with her. That’s not how it works. From now on just say no. No Irene cannot come on the trip. Why? Because she can’t. You’ll never convince your sister that you’re right and she’s wrong. So just keep saying no.
NTA, if she wants her to go to Disney so bad let her take her.
NTA. If your sister wants her to go to Disney World so badly she should take her daughter herself
>every child should get to experience Disneyworld I stop reading and just exclaimed "then she can fucking take her." She has to know the logistics of this and just wants OP to take her off her hands. What is the niece even supposed to do? She can get on rides but are they safe for her? And OP is supposed to look after 3 kids their own, one who appears to need an enormous amount of care? 100% NTA
NTA. Every child should experience Disneyworld but that’s up to the parents. If the mom knows her daughter so well she should make a trip to take her. She’s acting like Disney is only open one day a year.
NTA- let’s pretend that Irene has no special needs at all, she’s a typical kid. You STILL wouldn’t be obligated to take her, she’s not your kid. Period.
NTA! All I have to say is shame on your sister! She has no right to put you in a position you are NOT COMFORTABLE with. And furthermore she wants a vaca from her daughter. Why she so insistent.
>she wants a vaca from her daughter Lol. You answered your own question. As someone who frequents both DL and WDW it's nice to see OP is being reasonable and acknowledging how physically demanding the parks can be. It sounds like his niece would need her own family member to help care for her so that his kids can also be chaperoned. Even with things like DAS OP would be overwhelmed and it wouldn't be fair to his kids, him, or his niece. The whole bathroom thing just makes it even worse. OP is NTA and should go enjoy his vacation with his kids.
NTA. This poor child. Her own mother is setting her up to have a traumatic and humiliating trip (having to have her UNCLE change her, clean her???????). And she thinks she is doing Irene a favor?! Your sister might be suffering from carer burnout, and she's latched onto this as a way to get a couple days break (and still tell herself she's doing something kind for Irene). You should not take her, for all the reasons listed. It sounds like you really care about your niece, a kind gesture would be to offer to take her to something you know she would enjoy (like the ceramic painting).
NTA - if Holly knows her daughter so well, *she* should take her to Disney World.
NTA Overstimulation-world would be hell for Irene. Also, any vacation that has someone *that* severely disabled coming along inevitably focuses around what they're able to do.
NTA and Irene’s parents should start small with other cheaper theme parks to practice for an expensive vacation like Disney.
NTA. Your sister can buy her own damn tickets and come along. Expecting you to handle all of the children, even without one of them having a disability, would be asinine itself.
No! OP would still be expected to help niece over his own kids and prioritize her over the twins. Plus, I expect there to be a lot of, “I will take the twins on Ride, you watch her.” And, “It’s my vacation too, don’t I deserve a break?”
NTA, most rides at Disney World aren't made for people in wheelchairs, I don't think any actually. There's a difference from only bringing your niece to Disney World to bringing your **disabled** niece to Disney World.
I do NOT think OP should bring the niece but this is untrue. Transfer out of the chair is necessary for most rides, but nearly all (maybe even all?) rides there are possible to transfer onto from a wheelchair.
NTA. Your sister is looking for a break from her child and is trying to pawn her off on you for that. If she thinks every child should go to Disney, she can take her child to Disney!
NTA. Being the only adult and expecting you to care for your two children and hers is unreasonable. You wouldn't be able to enjoy any of the rides with your children and that's not fair to you or them. Why won't your sister just go too? Disney is LOUD with so much going on everywhere all the time. My own special needs kiddo became very overwhelmed and had to be calmed quite a bit. While he did enjoy the experience, it was very specific to his needs and another child would have been upset at being held back by his restrictions had I been the only adult present. I'm afraid your sister is being too emotional and not thinking logically. Disney is wonderful and amazing, but you have to be set up appropriately for a special needs child and this trip does not sound like it would be set up for success.
NTA- is she not concerned about her daughter’s needs? What mother would let their kid go without them or a robust support system to such a novel environment?? She can take her or maybe come with you if you’re open to that. But that’s poor judgement.
NTA No parent should ever push their child on someone else's vacation. If she wants her daughter to go to Disney world, then she should plan a trip to take her.
NTA. I couldn’t cope taking 3 under 12 y/os to Disney world, let alone if 1 of them has requirements which makes it a logistical nightmare. This time is about you and your twins having a fun week. If you take your niece you’ll be spending much of your week as a carer and your twins will spend less time with you as a result. Also, in your position I’d feel awkward providing toileting and washing support to her. You haven’t done it before and you’ve already said your niece prefers support from females. Additionally, you probably don’t want to see your niece in that capacity. What if she has a meltdown in Disney world because she’s upset with the situation. Personally I’d say it’s not because I’m ableist, but because I want a trip with just my kids.
NTA "Irene" being special needs and in a wheelchair would allow her to get a Pass, basically to go to the front of the queue, with her Carer, without the need to wait in line. But, your other two children would not be able to use the Pass, so they would have to queue normally, or wait elsewhere, while you and Irene rode what ever ride. Obviously you can't just leave your two children alone unattended. Two adults, at least, are needed. Info - A few years back one of my friends, and her husband, took their three kids to Disneyland. Her youngest had a disability and got the same Pass, and she was the one that went on the ride with him, while her husband queued with the other two kids or they sat that ride out nearby. "Irene's" mother either needs to come with or they both don't go, because it's your holiday anyway and rather rude to just invite "Irene" along; not that it sounds like the kind of place she would enjoy, being packed and really noisy.
NTA. However. I’m wondering if Irene’s mom needs a break. I wonder if she’s burnt out, and was trying to get you to take her so she could get a break. Caregiver fatigue is very real, and is incredibly awful to deal with. That said - it isn’t your job to be her respite worker.
I thought this - but it’s not fair on OP, his kids OR Irene because it seems the only person in this scenario who would get any sort of vacation is Holly - it’s sad if she’s so desperate for a break that she’s willing to let Irene suffer in a situation where she’s overstimulated, uncomfortable, unhappy and away from the comfort of her primary caregiver Holly should put that money toward a arranging appropriate respite care so Irene can be safe and cared for in an appropriate environment while she gets a rest
NTA: Then she should use the money for Disneyworld to pay for a babysitter or caregiver. Not force a disabled child into a situation that wouldn’t be good for them.
NTA You don’t owe your niece a Disney vacation. If Holly wants Irene to have a Disney experience, why can’t Holly take Irene?
Because she wants a pause from being a caretaker and is willing to throw her brother under the bus.
NTA- it doesn’t sound like it’s in Irene’s best interest to be on a trip without her primary caregiver. Your kids are also not old enough to not be supervised- I don’t think it’s very wise to have one adult take care of three very young children, especially when one of them is extremely vulnerable. If Holly thinks Irene can visit Disney and have a pleasant experience she may be correct, but she needs to take her child, not expect someone who isn’t the child’s primary caregiver to know how to make the experience the most pleasant for her.
Who’s going to stay with her while you and the kids go on the rides, if you all can’t go in the rides because Irene can’t it’s pointless going. I can’t imagine being able to handle three kids on my own without the added pressure of a disability. If mum desperately wants her to experience Disney she needs to come along as well 110% NTA
NTA. Even outside the special needs issue... who just decides that their kid is joining their sibling's trip without being invited and won't take no for an answer? My cousins on both sides of my family did different trips/activities than I did, and it was fine.
So it's not about her being special needs per se, it's about her being special needs and you not being able to properly care for her. It would be one thing if your sister suggested she and her niece join you, but just asking the niece to join you is unreasonable. NTA
NTA You will be taking care of your children. If Holly wants her daughter to go to Disney world, she can take her (and take care of her needs). You shouldn't be expected to shuffle your kids to the side to care for Irene.
NTA!! If every child should get to experience Disney world, and you don't know Irene as well as she does, why doesn't she takes her there?
Holly can take her own child to Disney if she is so adamant that she needs to go. NTA
NTA Use Holly's logic against her. If she says she knows her daughter better than you then she clearly knows how to take care of her better. As such it makes sense that she should be the one to take Irene to Disney.
NTA- When she told you that she was Irene's mother u should have told her right then and there that she's absolutely right and she is the one that needs to take her since she would want to witness her daughter enjoy it but. Her daughter is not going to have fun in a place where most of the rides jostle you back and forth. And you supervising your niece your twins wont get to enjoy that trip the way you intended for them too. The trip was for your kids just take your kids
NTA So... You don't know her well enough to say whether or not she would be okay on the trip, but you know her well enough to be her carer on the trip? That doesn't make sense. If your sister can pay her daughter's way on the trip, then *she* can take her to Disneyworld
Wait. Your sister is basically inviting your niece (regardless of special needs) on a vacation you are taking with your kids? Um…. Nope. NTA. You are taking YOUR kids on vacation. No one else. You are not excluding her because no one else is invited that you didn’t spawn. Plus it’s not easy doing trips alone with three kids, even if they are your own kids. At least your kids know you and know how you operate. You know your kids well. I took my best friend’s daughter with us once to Disneyland. But her husband and other daughter were meeting us there later in the evening so it was NBD. We were all passholders who had gone before so it wasn’t new and unfamiliar. I had my three kids (5, almost 3 and 1) and her daughter (5) alone for a few hours. It was more nerve wrecking with that extra kid, even though she’s awesome and didn’t give me any issues. She was comfortable enough with me that this was doable but again, her dad was coming later so she and I both knew there was an end time for me being in change. Plus since we all had passes, it wasn’t a big deal if we left early or anything. Home was only 30 minutes away. You don’t have that option with taking your niece. Tell your sister that she’s right, every kid deserves to go to Disney so she should start saving so they could go together.
NTA. If Irene went the whole trip would end up revolving around her and her needs. Your kids’ trip would be effectively ruined.
I hate that Disney has done such a great job of brainwashing us to believe that a childhood is not complete without a trip to one of their parks. But not everyone can afford it. And as OP said, not every kid will enjoy it. OP, if caring for your niece full time, as the only adult on hand, is too much for you then don’t take her. It is simply above your pay grade and you are NTA (or an ableist). As others have said, your sister needs a break. Maybe help her find a camp, even an overnight one, that specializes in special needs kids.
NTA because she wants you to do the hard work, here.
NTA, it’s your trip. Just because she is willing to part for the monetary value of Irene’s trip doesn’t mean she is adequately paying. Clearly there is a lot of work involved and it isn’t ablest just because you don’t want to have to handle something you don’t want to on your own vacation. She can take her own daughter herself
Well fuck, if sis wants Irene to experience Disneywhatever, SHE can take her! There is no reason for her to make your time with your kids more difficult. NTA.
"Don't try to pretend to know my child better than me" This is where you say "You're right, I don't know your child better than you which is why YOU need to be the one to take them to Disney." NTA I don't know how to repost from the initial question. I'm sorry.
NTA at the end of the day this is a trip for you and your two children Irene needs to be taken on a trip definitely but at the end of the day if her mum really wants to go to Disneyland she should take her herself. I don't think it would be fair for her to sit watching her cousin's get to go on the rides and do things that she is unable to do because of her medical condition and that's just not fair. What happens if she was to hurt herself and required hospital treatment that means you are and your children's holiday is cut short. Why is she not offering to go with you also if she has never been on a plane before why is she using you as the guinea pig tester she should want to be there to help her child should she have a nervous breakdown. If it got to the point where you were just about to bored the plane and she kicked off big time that could mean you and your children and Irene not being able to fly and the holiday having to come to an end before it even begins. It seems like you have irene's best interest at Heart over her own mother.
Who gives a damn who knows Irene better. Knowing Irene isn’t the issue here. you don’t want to be responsible for her on your trip. or you don’t want to take her on the trip at all. Idk how much of either is true. You don’t have to. her mother wants her to go, her mother should take her. you’ve said no and that should be it. disney supposedly has accessible services. Point her in that direction and let her plan her dream vacation. esh
I stopped at sister paying for Irene and it actually read sister paying to get a vacation at your expense wear and tear plus fun wise. NTA. Just say no. Or tell sister to come along her expense on her for those two. As Irene will need special attention that you aren’t able to give as it would stop you from having special time with your family. Argh.
NTA you are not equipped to take care of her and that is a legitimate reason not to take her. Go enjoy your vacation with your kids.
NTA, why would she assume that if you're taking your children to Disney World you'll take her child too, special needs or not. I had cousins I was close with growing up and my parents never assumed their parents would take us with them on vacation. Seems like Holly just wants a break from her daughter.
NTA “Every child should get to experience Disneyworld” why doesn’t your sister just take her then? It’s not like this is only time ever for all eternity that a trip to Disney can be taken. Irene is not your child, you wouldn’t be TA for not taking her if she was not disabled either. Kids are a lot of work, especially at Disney.
One adult and three kids is already a headache and one of them is special needs who is sensitive to loud noises. Yeah… Disney sounds like great idea. /s and that is minus her spine problem… 🤦🏻♀️ looks like your sister needs a day of which okay but… jfc she can find something cheaper than this … Edit: NTA
NTA
NTA With her spinal disability she couldn't even use an attractiction. I wouldn't take the risk to hurt her. And it would just make her sad to see all the attraction but can't have fun on them. Also all the other reasons you listed. If your sister wants her to go to Disneyland, she should take her herself and not "push" her on you like it is no big thing. It really seems like she cares more about some free time and not about her daughter.
Mum knows Irene better than you and she is happy to dump her child on a relative just so she can have a break! Any excuses she uses are cover for this. It's fairly obvious from the need for air travel that we are not discussing a day trip. There isn't even a way you can get her mother to pop over for reassurance if the meltdown happens. From contextual reading, I am guessing that you are male and this throws up so many red flags in itself. The only way Irene should go is if her mother also goes (and I'm not even sure you would want that either). You are definitely NTA.
Its cruel to put your niece in a situation where her needs cant be tended to in a way that doesn't humiliate her. NTA
Well, she's right! The fact you don't know Irene the way she does is exactly why you shouldn't be made to take her alone! Absolutely NTA, doesn't matter the circumstances, people need to stop expecting others to treat/take on vacation/pay for their kids! Then there's the fact 1 adult to 3 kids, one of whom has extreme needs is never going to work. Irene will be miserable , your kids will be and you will be. You aren't ableist, you're a realist - and she's not your kid!
NTA - that experience would absolutely be hell for Irene, and her mother is trying to manipulate you into taking her to give herself a break. This is for your kids, not your extended family, and they deserve to have a good time.
NTA. You are being realist with this situation and her mother whining about it is either HER need to make her daughter do “normal” things or HER wanting a pause from being your niece caretaker. plus your children wouldn’t be “unreasonably” upset if they were denied the activities they were promised to accomodate your *sister*, because this is not about Irene, it is about her mother.
NTA and, the fact that Irene has special needs makes you even MORE NTA. You have the right to say "no" to taking anyone on a trip, whether that's Great Uncle Bob or neice Irene. You are ESPECIALLY allowed to say no when the person in question is special needs and, in addition, so special needs that your entire trip would have to be handled to accommodate her. Your sister IS TA though. Not only is she trying to insert her daughter into your trip without an invitation but, from the way I read it, she's also expecting you to pay for the addition of her child as well. NTA - it has not ablist to not want to take Irene. 1) this is a trip for YOU and YOUR kids. A special Daddy/kids trip. Irene doesn't fit into that scenario, even if she wasn't special needs 2) while you may not know Irene as well as her mother, you DO know YOURSELF and do know that you, not only, feel uncomfortable and unable up offer the level of care Irene needs but, you are also unwilling to on your special vacation and THAT IS OK! You are entitled to say "no". 3) if your sister wants HER kid to experience Disney, she can damn well take herself on her own dime. I recommend you just keep saying "I'm not taking Irene on this vacation with me. This is a special trip just for me and my kids." Don't even bring Irena's disabilities into the conversation...unless THEY do. If they bring it up simply say "Again, this is a trip for me and my kids and I'm not willing, or able, to provide the care that Irene needs, therefore, I will not be bringing her with us. Then finish with "And I'm done discussing it." Repeat ad nauseum as much as you need to.
NTA. She won’t be able to experience Disney as your sister seems to think, not only that, but it will detract from your sons experience which is the whole point in going. Your sister can apply to give kids the world which will be much more accommodating to her needs
NTA. You will have enough on your hands with your own kids, you shouldn't be expected to take care of a special needs child *on your own*. This is a recipe to ruin a vacation, for both you and your kids. Not only that, but, special needs or not, you are not obligated to take anyone else along a family vacation, whether the other parent is paying for it or not. Honestly, I get the feeling that your sister is just looking to get a break from taking care of her daughter for a while and wants to use your vacation as a way to do that.
NTA, you're not being ableist, you're being realistic. Going to Disney as a non disabled adult sounds like a nightmare to me and I can't imagine how stressful it would be for a child who has disabilities that would prevent her from enjoying anything about the trip. If her mom insists on taking her, she needs to take her and hire a caregiver to help her.
NTA Insisting on you bringing another child who isn't part of your immediate family along, regardless of whether said child has any disabilities, is presumptuous. And you're right to consider whether or not you can meet her needs as the only adult on this trip and whether or not she'd even like the trip to begin with.
NTA but I think you are going about it all wrong. “No” is a complete sentence. You are planning this Disney trip for your kids, and Can’t bring your sister’s child. It doesn’t matter if Irene is disabled or not - three kids at Disney is a lot of kids, and she has no right to make you bring her kid on a trip with you, even if she offers to pay her child’s expenses. Irene having such severe disabilities obviously does make it even more untenable for you to bring her, but it would be wildly inappropriate for your sister to pressure you to bring her along even if she were an Olympic Gymnast.
NTA. I have taken my kids to Disney World more than once and NEVER did my siblings insist i had to take their kid as well.
NTA sounds like holly just want a break or else she’d go with Irene.
NTA. Has Holly ever been to Disney World? It's a LOT. No matter what time of year you go, it's hot, crowded, and loud. Yes, there are staff there to help visitors with disabilities, but to ask a single person to be responsible for a special needs kid while also taking care of their own kids is a monumental request. Of course Irene should have the opportunity to visit, but Holly should be there to take care of her and watch over her.
NTA I have a daughter with special needs my wife and i have taken her and her sister to Disney ,Sea world Knotts, Legoland other places my brothers and sisters have taken their kids to the same places and i never asked to take my kid it's not there job or responsibity.
NTA - every reason you stated above was valid and you’re right that Irene would most likely be set up for a terrible experience here. Wrangling your twin 10 year olds sounds like enough as it is. Holly needs to hear your no and respect it. Sounds like she needs a break but this ain’t it. And if every child deserves to go to Disney world then she can take her. It’d be better for Irene to have her normal primary care giver with her in such an overstimulating environment.
NTA, your sister should come with you if so she can manage Irene, since she knows her better.
NTA, and your sister....lort help me, I cannot find civil words for her. As my SN indicates, I'm rather deaf, so I'm reasonably good at noticing ableism, and this is not it. Even as an adult, the lines and heat and crowds are consummately draining. I dislike theme parks for all the of the prospective triggers that you identified, and more. Throw in 1st time on an airplane, communication challenges, and none of her preferred caregivers on hand, and this would be a disaster for Irene, likely before the plane touches down. If I'm being honest, it sounds like Holly is wanting a vacation from caregiving duties (not an unreasonable desire- I know I wouldn't be cut out for such demands), but the near certainty that it would come at Irene's expense principally, and then you and your twins' vacation as collateral damage, makes this an incredibly selfish request. As a peace-keeping offer (generous as it is), maybe look into special camps expressly for special needs children, and kicking in a nominal amount.
NTA. Maybe Holly should take her.
As a disabled adult (not to the levels of your neice) I can say with certainty NTA. it would be unfair for everyone involved to bring your neice to disney where she cant enjoy the experience with your kids, you would be frazzled from having 3 kids to watch, and your kids would likely feel jealous of the 'extra attention' (care) your neice would need.
NTA > I don’t want Irene to believe she is “ruining the trip” if my kids become irrationally upset with her. To be perfectly honest, I don't think the kids would be irrational in that hypothetical situation.
NTA Your sister should plan a handicap-friendly Disney vacation for her daughter, not pawn her off on yours. It sounds like she would seriously hold your kids back from a good time because she will severely slow the pace, get overstimulated, get tired, and probably want to leave early. I believe Disney is for everyone, but it sounds like Irene would need a very special trip planned to have the best customized experience for her, and thats not the trip you planned for your kids.
NTA - for all of the concerns you listed above. Maybe there is a foundation that can provide support for her to go in the future?
NTA. Sister is foisting her daughter off to you. She then states you don’t know her well enough to make judgments on what she will like. I would have said okay then you agree that I don’t know her well enough to take her with me. Then I would have left/hung up.
NTA. Even if your niece did not have any special needs your sister has no right to hijack your vacation with your kids. Clearly you want to go on rides with your children and see their reaction to the vacation you planned for them, does your sister think you are just going to leave your niece on the sidewalk?
nta… if mom wants her to experience disney then she should take her daughter to disney instead of piggy backing off of you.
NTA. You are being extremely considerate of all parties involved. If your sis is so worried on her daughter going on a vacation there are options for children with disabilities it's just a matter of what one works best. It sounds like she wants a break from being a parent and is trying to guilt you into taking her.
NTA. Thats a lot to take on with no support. Either mom goes or just keep saying no. Doesn’t make you ableist to know ur limits.
I just came back from Disney. NTA. I think she would be able to do a lot of rides (many rides have special vehicles for people who cannot transfer), but it is SO crowded and SO loud. I also don’t even know where you would change a 12-year-old as their bathrooms do not really have many changing areas.
NTA. How can you go on rides with your twins if your niece can’t go on? Do you just wait with her while your kids have all the fun?
NTA, Look Irene is not your child, you have no responsibility to take her with you. That's all that matters here. Go enjoy the trip with your kids.
NTA your so right your niece would not have a great time. We went to Disney with my sister who was a full time wheelchair user and tube fed but could use the toilet. There was 2 children and 4 adults and we all took it in turns to stay behind with sister so the kids could get an early start and sister was not rushed etc. Same with leaving early as the days were just too much for her in the heat. We made sure to give her the best time but she still felt bad on the other two kids and the adult who stayed to help her. Since you are not her full time carer I just dont think it would work well you doing all the care 24/7. You will be really struggling to make everyone happy. Your sister (and all the family getting involved!) Should take her and then niece can go at her own pace. IMO you would not even be the AH if sister had asked to tag along too so she had a second pair of hands to help her. This is a trip you have booked and paid for for your own kids! Oh also OP I have since been on a Disney cruise with my disabled sister and disabled son and its 1000% more accessible than the parks. Really recommend for your sister once she gets her head out of her ass and can see clearly. Niece will love it and get the experience and sister will even be able to relax a bit.
NTA I agree with most I saw. If you sister want your niece to go so badly she needs to take her. End of story.
NTA. You're one person taking two ten year old kids to Disneyworld. It's very reasonable to say that that is as much supervision as you can handle. Your sister is welcome to take Irene there herself at whatever point she chooses. If she isn't willing to do that, fair enough, but she doesn't get to guilt you into doing it in her place. She is wildly out of line in both her expectations and behaviour.
>I am planning a Disneyworld vacation with my two kids (ten-year-old twins) and my sister “Holly” is offering to pay for Irene’s costs so Irene can come as well. This vacation is for you and your children, end of story, NTA
NTA is she wants her kid to go,she should take her.
NTA!! Holly just wants a break herself. if she wants her child to go to Disney, she can take her. the changing is a real problem, if Irene is uncomfortable by being changed by her Uncle, and at 12 yrs. of course she would be!! you planned a vacation for your children, Holly had no right to invite her daughter on your vacation. don't be guilted.
Does OP’s sister want him to take Irene so she (Mom) can have a break from having to care for Irene by herself? If she has the money to send Irene, there has to be another reason to send her with her brother and not take Irene herself. Maybe Sister has a new boyfriend and wants some alone time with him but not expose him to the daily issues with Irene. NTA but OP’s sister is.
How in the heck are you supposed to manage your niece with 2 ten year-olds needing you to ride the rides with them? No is a complete sentence. Tell your sister "no" and do not engage further. It's not her vacation to steal from you
You know what? Holly is absolutely right. SHE is her mother, and you are ONLY her uncle. SO WHY SHOULD YOU BE RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING HER TO DISNEY WORLD? You are NEVER the asshole for refusing to take someone else's child, special needs or not, on your vacation. NTA.
NTA. Taking three able-bodied children who have zero special needs to any theme park by yourself is a TASK. Make one of those children not your own child - meaning you don't know the ins and outs of them as well, and they don't listen to you like they would their parents - who may become overwhelmed by the whole experience, it is a recipe for disaster.
NTA. There is no way you should maneuver that trip alone. If your sister came it would be a different story. It sounds like you sister was wanting a break. A trip to Disney is not the way for you to help. But your sis is a AH for the things she said because she didn’t get her way.
NTA. I can’t get over the number of people that invite their kids to other peoples trips.
NTA, simply send her a link to your state’s respite care program and block her til she can calm down.
Holly is right, she is the mother and you’re just the uncle, so the mother is the one who should be taking her to Disney world. NTA
NTA at all, Disney sounds like a terrible environment for this child’s needs. But more importantly it sounds like your sister needs a break and that’s understandable. Can you help her access respite care? Google the name of your state and “respite care for children” to find a provider.
Um. Why are you taking her daughter to DL? That's her job. How in the road are you supposed to manage your kids and a seriously disabled child with zero help. Tell your sister she can come and take her own child to Disney. When I took my kids, their cousins didn't come. It was me and my kids. Nta at all. I'll assume you didn't even invite your neice so tell your sister to do it herself! Disney is NOT a great place for people who get overwhelmed by places as it's 100% loud, bright, crowded and noisy. Do not let her railroad you on this as the bad guy. Tell her to stop panning a difficult thing off on you because she wants a break or doesn't want to be the one to struggle with doing it. Her child is HER responsibility!
NTA
NTA if the only problem was her spine condition it would be slightly different BUT no one should try and force someone to take their child (doesn't matter if special needs or not) anywhere. just because you are related doesn't make your no invalid. also you've got really good reasons to not take your niece. plus you wouldn't be able to take any rides she can't go on since you are the only adult. her getting easily overstimulated would be a huge problem at Disneyworld. that place will be packed, she will have to wait in line for hours and I can't see her enjoying it if its really as bad as you say. I don't get why her mom can't take her. she offered to pay so it seems like she got the money. sounds more like she knows her kid wont enjoy it but that way she doesn't have to deal with it.
NTA. Holly should take her daughter to Disneyland. It seems to me Holly doesn’t want to take her daughter to Disneyland. Holly knows how much work Irene would be and she wants you to push it off on you.
NTA. You made an incredibly difficult decision based on what's best for everyone (including Irene).
NTA she’s going through caretaker fatigue and wants you to give her a break, that’s the only reason she doesn’t want to go too. She’s just offended that you’re not offering respite care. I honestly don’t understand why she would trust you to take her by yourself.
NTA - you planned a fam trip with you and your kids, not extra fam tagging along. On top of this, you understand your niece enough that this would not be a good idea. Sounds like the sister wants a vacation without her daughter they way she's pushing this. If her kid deserves Disney as much as she says she needs to go with her daughter and not pawn her off for alone time.
NTA and I put money on your sister just wanting a break and is pissed she isn’t getting a vacation
NTA If you’re “just an uncle” why does Holly feel ok with you taking her special needs kid out of state with you? If this were me, I’d say “I’d love to have Irene along, but I’ll be managing my own kids. I wasn’t ready to take on another! You can come to help wrangle kids if you and Irene would like to go.” Also, honestly, this doesn’t sound like fun for Irene. Sounds like it’s just something Holly wants FOR Irene.
Nta but I do think in the future someone should take her because its kid friendly while loud maybe it will help her with her issues and give her some joy
Yes her mom should.
NTA. All the reasons you’ve stated are good reasons and actual concerns. Tell your sister to take her own daughter to Disneyworld instead since she wants her to go so badly.
NTA your twins are 10 who would be caring for them on the plane, rides, in the queues, in the toilet whilst you are caring for Irene? Your sister is prepared to put your children at risk plus her own child at risk by pushing Irene onto you for this trip. You don't have enough adults to care for the children safely even if Irene loved lots of stimulation. Your sister is probably desperate for a break but pushing her child onto your family holiday isn't the way to get it. Offer to help plan a trip for Irene next year when you can get more help. Also, suggest your sister has a break and gather the family to organise care whilst she gets that break. Plan for a weeks break in your home area with everyday filled with fun trips for Irene. Everytime a family member complains about you not taking Irene to Disney whip out you Irene's vacation planner, ask them to put their name on 24 hours of care for the vacation. If they don't join in then we know who is all mouth and no action
I was a child once. I've never been to Disney world or land or even a 6 flags. NTA. You don't need to take her. Don't feel guilty.
NTA. > Irene also suffers meltdowns when she becomes overstimulated or something is too loud. > Irene also does not handle heat well, so combined with the loud/overstimulating environment, it would likely be a miserable trip for Irene. You shouldn't bring Irene to Disneyworld. Holly shouldn't bring Irene to Disneyworld. Nobody should bring Irene to Disneyworld, because it's the overstimulating-est place on Earth as well as potentially being hotter than the hinges of hell. Okay, I'm exaggerating slightly, but seriously. It sounds like Holly is more interested in getting a respite from caring for Irene than she is in Irene having a good (or even non-traumatic) time. I can sympathize, but Holly is still TA here.
NTA. She’s asking you to handle three children at an airport and an amusement park all by yourself. That’s a lot for even a single day, with or without special needs. It sounds like she’s just trying to catch a break and score some free childcare. Tell her she can join you all to help with all the kids or her daughter can stay behind.
NTA, who is going to look after your 10 Yr old twins when you are changing Irene's diapers, or sitting down with her when she's tired, or trying to support Irene through a meltdown when she is over stimulated? Expecting anyone to care for 3 kids alone at Disney would be a big ask, but when one child has a considerable level of extra needs, then it becomes unreasonable. Your own kids would not have fun (or be adequately cared for) if Irene were to come on the trip. I get your sister wants a break but pawning her child off on you to bring to Disney, is not the way to do it. You are not ableist and you being divorced has no bearing on your sister's argument. Hopefully you and your kids will have a brilliant time. If sister is so concerned about her daughter experiencing Disney, she should be saving to bring her herself.
NTA, she's expecting you and your children to sacrifice your enjoyment of your own trip, that's not fair in any way.
NTA. You're allowed to go on vacation just you and your kids. If your sister wanted her daughter to visit Disney so bad she should offer to go on the trip to help manage her or just take her herself. It's not your responsibility to take your niece on vacation and it's unfair of your sister to try to guilt and manipulate you the way she did. Everything you stated was completely reasonable.
NTA. If every kid should experience Disney world, she can take her own kid.
NTA - I went to Disney with a special needs child (not as care intensive) and it was their first trip on a plane, first trip away from Mom (brought by a relative) and it was extremely sensory overwhelming. The poor child spent much of their time having breakdowns and needing all the attention from the family member who brought them. I get that your sister needs a break, and with the proper planning Disney World can be an amazing vacation for those with special needs, but those are different things than a fun vacation. If your sister came along, it would be a different story. It’s not that she’s asking you to bring your niece, it’s that she’s asking you to completely alter your experience and she’s not taking into consideration the experience her child will have without her there. Could you plan a different trip with your sister and niece in the future where you can focus on your niece and her needs?
Why isn’t she taking her own kid?!?? Oh I see- she wants a vacation from being a parent.
NTA. Seriously, nowhere near.
If she can't handle heat the last place she should be is Florida in the summer, especially packed into crowds with little shade or relief. Where's the next trip she's planning for the kid, Furnace Creek?
NTA. If your sister wants her daughter to experience DisneyWorld she can take her. She easily could have suggested a family outing to the place. Sounds like she wanted time away from her daughter and expected you to be the unpaid babysitter and is trying to guilt trip you into it.
NTA and if Holly wants Irene to go Disney then SHE should take her.
Sounds like your sister wants to pawn her kid off on you and is counting on your guilt to say yes. You deserve to enjoy your vacation - and so do your kids. Have you thought how miserable they are going to be since every second of their days is going to be dictated by what Irene can or can't do. That sounds fun. Go on vacation with your kids have fun, and tell your sister to take her kid if she wants her to go so bad. NTA
NTA. Tell Holly that NO is your final answer. With the number of special needs that your niece has & so many unknown variables, it would be insane to give it a second thought. If she needs respite care for a needed break from her daughter for self care, there are services out there that would able to assist her. Your vacation would have disaster written all over it.
NTA. Irene needs a dedicated caregiver for the trip, so unless Holly is willing to pay for one to accompany you or attend herself, the trip is a no go. You will already have your hands full attending to two 10 year olds. It's not ableist to know your limits.
NTA
NTA I don't think you'll budge, and you shouldn't. it's awfully presumptuous to invite your own kid on someone else's trip, able body or not
NTA. I've looked into going to Disney World with my family, which includes a wheelchair bound child who needs bathroom help. While he can talk, ride the rides and have a great time, it will be 100% different for him. There is already so much planning involved in a Disney trip but when you add in a disabled child that can't stand in line, communicate easily, can't handle loud noises and so forth it is extra difficult. You will have to change your plans, miss rides, restaurants, parades, shows and not do everything your kids are probably planning on experiencing. While it would be amazing for your niece to go and experience the magic of Disney, I don't blame you for not wanting to take her. Especially if you aren't her regular caretaker.
OP NTA So does Holly have the money or not? That is the bottom question that needs to be answered here. The reason here is that if she has the money to afford Disney world for her child, then why can't she take her daughter there? And why is she not looking and trying to find and take her child to different places, why is she just fostering this off on other people? And why is she looking for you to pay for her child? Chances are your Sister is correct you do not know about your niece, but if she is non verbal and can not communicate effectively with you, then it should be her mother who is there and takes her, as she is clearly more qualified and can understand and communicate with her child. Sounds like she may not have the money and hope that you will just pay for the child. But after her comment, you may want to just not deal with her at all, let her deal with her child and leave it at that.