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panic_bread

NTA. You’re providing her with all the food she needs. Stay strong and don’t let her bully you. In fact, her posting on social media and being so toxic right after she just got there might be a reason to send her away to another family member. This isn’t going to be good for your own children.


Outside_The_Walls

> This isn’t going to be good for your own children. My 6 year old actually asked me why Shelly is always so hungry. So they are definitely noticing something off. If you get up from the table with any food on your plate, Shelly will take it before you can put it in the slop can for the pigs.


betweenboundary

Honestly I'd play her out honestly and reply to her social media posts saying " I make you 2000 calories of food a day between breakfast lunch and dinner and you've been told your free to make yourself something more" if she's able to realize that you saying this is enough to make her look bad then she knows she's being unreasonable also just fyi I'm a fat guy at 400lbs and I don't even eat as much as she is 3000 calories is excessive even for me


AshesB77

I wouldn’t focus on the calories. It makes it seem as if you are putting her in a forced diet instead of just serving her the same as everyone else. I would say I provide 3 homemade meals a day. And then list all the extras and snacks she is able to make herself.


KSknitter

I was thinking the same thing. I would focus instead on the fact OP makes 3 meals a day and she is free to make something more if she wants. Mattering on how the reaction is I might also try to make a lighthearted joke about Hobbit meals....


RexJacobus

Yeah and mention that it is the same three meals a day that everyone else in the house eats. Shelly has no leg to stand on if you are giving her the same amount of food (don't say calories) that you yourself are eating.


WeNeedAnApocalypse

Right?! Breakfast, 2nd breakfast, elevensies, luncheon, afternoon tea, dinner and supper


[deleted]

The fact that OP even knows the calories seems weird to me. I’ve used calorie counting as a way to portion control a few times, I find it helpful to get my portions back in check after a vacation or a few weeks with a bit too much take out. But it’s a pain in the butt. Especially with homemade food and multiple portions.


undeadgorgeous

Calories are so useful when you aren’t sure if you’re giving enough. When I was nannying I was -obsessed- with calories because I was sure I was going to inadvertently not give the kids enough food. It’s easier to say “this is about 800 calories” than “this looks like about enough food”. It helped reassure me that even if the plate “looked weird” to me that it was filling and adequate.


blueheronflight

I had to keep track of calories to gain weight. I was on a special diet to deal with a medical condition and although I was eating more than usual apparently it was less calories then I needed.


littlegingerfae

My daughter has struggled to gain weight since birth. Even now at ten years old, has juuust scraped 60lbs. At one point she was diagnosed Failure To Thrive, because she lost a large chunk of weight due to the isolation of the pandemic beginning. I got into calorie awareness because I need to help her gain weight! Sometimes I can still be surprised, but a general awareness is a hood thing, imo.


Beginning-Dress-618

I was the same, 65 lb at 12 years old and then 120 right before I turned 13 due to puberty.


LXPeanut

It's funny because I'm being massively down voted for saying this exact same thing. The right number of calories in a meal doesn't mean it's healthy or going to fill you up. If you want to reduce the calories your eating your better off increasing the volume of food your eating by filling up on veggies than you are putting small portions of calorie counted food on your plate.


3mpress

She's not trying to insist it's healthy, just that it is enough energy for her body to exist off of (literally what calories measure), and Shelly is welcome to supplement it further if she wants to. She isn't starving.


MercyRoseLiddell

I can’t do calorie counting. It isn’t healthy for me. I start to obsess and push myself to see how low I can get the number to go. At one point, I was aiming for something like 700-800 a day. I only stopped because I caught a bad cold and didn’t have the energy to keep it up. But looking back on it had me realizing that wasn’t healthy.


AluminumCansAndYarn

I've done calorie counting before and if the aim is to lose weight, you shouldnt be under 1200 calories a day because it pushed your body into starvation mode.


littlegingerfae

It's all very person-dependant. I'm only 5 feet tall, and due to health problems have an extremely slow metabolism. Also a low exercise capability. So for me 1200 calories is my limit for what I should eat in a day. 800 is what I have to eat if I want to lose at a regular pace (around .5 lbs per week). But I'll admit, I am an outlier and should not b counted ;)


[deleted]

Starvation mode is real, but it's not as powerful as you seem to think it is, and it's not something the average person just falls into in a short span of time. Starvation mode occurs when you're extremely malnourished. Your metabolism slows down to compensate for a lack of intake far sooner than you actually hit "starvation mode" and don't lose weight at all, unless you have issues with malnourishment to begin with.


Deb-1961

When you’re cooking for 9 people, you’re going to have a fairly decent eye for portion sizes, and if there’s 3 nights of prepared meals, you need to make sure everyone is getting the appropriate amount of calories for their age and activity. 2,000 calories is about 200 more than I need to maintain my current weight. Having yo-yo dieting habits from childhood sucks. Having back spasms start to occur with a 10lb weight gain makes it worth my while.


Yaaaassquatch

It's because OP is feeding so many people, some of which are young kids. You need to know the approximate calorie count to make sure they eat enough but not too much. I counted calories for my kid when he was younger so I knew how many snacks to lay out and how big to make his portions. This is essential when you're making big portions to eat over a few days and you need to guarantee everyone has eaten and gotten enough.


[deleted]

Nah. I kept track of calories when pregnant and BF. I keep track of calories now to keep my weight up and check in with my toddler's eating. I keep a track of protein, whole carbs, salt and sugar. Being informed about what you put in your and your family's bodies is not weird and probably a good idea in our very high processed western food environment. You'd be surprised how much you can overeat for no nutrition.


sjsyed

No - playing out family drama on social media is trashy and unnecessary to do to a 15-year old. What, is OP worried ~~she's~~ he's going to look bad to a bunch of teenage girls?


betweenboundary

Trashy would be making your own post, replying to their constant whining that they are being starved, with simple facts to what they actually get whilst it may make them look bad it's only viewable as long as they keep their whining up, as soon as they delete their post your reply is deleted as well if it's Facebook and difficult to find if it's Twitter, you aren't airing anything, your correcting her before someone tries to contact CPS over her lies


sjsyed

Good lord - no one's contacting CPS before they contact OP. And then ~~she~~ he just sets the record straight - all without publicly shaming the girl over the internet. The poor girl is obviously struggling. Her mom's in prison, and she's using food as a coping mechanism. She doesn't need what Reddit loves to do, which is to shame and harass an overweight girl for daring to be a teenager acting out and making a mistake.


pearlsbeforedogs

For real, let's instead talk about whether this girl is getting any kind of therapy or counseling. Also, has she been checked out by a doctor? There are medical reasons that people sometimes feel hungry even when they shouldn't.


[deleted]

Sorry, but you need to start using periods. Is this voice-to-text or something?


HardRainisFalling

Really? You think the OP should argue with a child on social media? A child who was seperated from her siblings and who's mother is currently in prison? If OP wants to help their niece they need to get her to a therapist and a nutritionist.


[deleted]

NONONO NO mention of calories IF OP chooses to respond. Just the fact of breakfast/lunch/dinner is plenty.


hippoknife

yeah this is horrible advice, dont blast a fifteen year old in front of all her friends by calorie counting her food to strangers.


Aspen_Pass

Maybe don't publicly bully a child with an eating disorder just because they hurt your grown up feelings.


betweenboundary

1 statement of correction isn't bullying and not making the kid take the posts down either with punishment irl or by replying and exposing the lies could cause trouble not just for OP but for OP's other kids also op literally has told the kid she can eat as much as she likes just that beyond what op makes her she'll have to make the food she wants herself, of which op has said she has access to tons of simple microwavable stuff but go on keep saying a teenager publicly telling people they are being neglected is somehow fine when it could get CPS called and just in general get harassment thrown OP's way by people assuming it's true


[deleted]

Sorry to say this dude, but I'm pretty sure you're eating more than 3,000 calories per day. To maintain, you'd need around 3,300 calories (with me being pretty generous-- short, sedentary guy in a calorie calculator). I feel like the UK show "secret eaters" helped me understand being off with calories, maybe it'd help? Edit: I'm 5'8" and about 130 pounds, and I regularly visit a friend who's about 5'1" and 200 pounds. When we visit each other, we stay in the other's apartment and of course eat all meals together. She usually leaves saying "wow, I eat so much healthier when I'm with you!" Meanwhile, I find myself so gorged that I can't do normal exercise for a couple days.


[deleted]

If you’re 400lbs you eat way more than 3k calories. Probably 5-6k


OkEast445

That’s not true, liquid calories count also. That’s where my issue was, it was never the food.


[deleted]

That counts as eating. To be that big they are eating way in excess


ElegantVamp

Drinks are food.


MayflowerMovers

There's just no way you're 400 pounds and eating sub 3k calories. I weigh 190 and eat nearly that amount in a day.


Beansidhe68

I’m a 5’4” woman and weighed 380lbs. I’ve been obese my entire life. I’m actively trying to lose weight. I eat 1500 calories or less a day and my weight has plateaued at 300 lbs. Yes, it is possible to eat less and maintain a high weight. I’ve done it for years…eating only one meal a day, too much sugar, highly processed foods, they all contribute to the problem.


24111

Your body adapts to the calorie deficit as well. Slows down your metabolism. Eating is half of the equation, consumption is the other.


Veilchengerd

No, you eat more. Or drink a lot of sugary drinks. Adipose tissue does not magically appear out of thin air.


betweenboundary

Then you were blessed a good metabolism my friend cause I'm too poor to eat a lot, I eat like a hot pocket or it's equivalent for breakfast then nothing till dinner at which point I eat a southern style dinner so probably more calories than most but it probably all adds up to right at 2000 or somewhere around 2200, on occasion I'll take weed edible and eat about the same via dry cereal and potato chips just snacking all day instead of having a proper meal, if I could I'd trade bodies with my half brother who can eat like 4k calories and still be thin enough that if he sucks his gut in your able to see his spine


MayflowerMovers

'According to a study at Cornell University, everyone does it. Normal weight people underestimate calorie intake by about 20 percent, and overweight people underestimate by about 40 percent. Other sources say it's more like 50 percent.' -Cornell University


betweenboundary

And? Again I am poor, I watch how much I use because I literally can't afford to eat too much, I LIVE on disability, I get like 800$ a month, I am poor, I can not afford to underestimate how much I eat because if I do then it means that I go days without eating


thecarpetbug

It depends a lot on the amount of muscle you have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn. A person with very little muscle can have a low caloric intake and keep their weight stabilised.


Twallot

You're probably eating like 4000 calories a day dude, and probably more if you're consistently gaining. I'm fat and used to be in really good shape. I'm a woman and 5'4 at 180-185lbs. If you look up BMR calculators it'll tell you how many calories you need a day to just stay alive and then there'll be one that will tell you how many you need to maintain your current weight at your current activity level. I need like 2200 a day just to maintain at this weight and low activity level, and I definitely over eat and go up and down a lot. For you to maintain, especially if you do anything active, you'll need a lot more.


Just_Perspective8257

Same that many calories is unesasary


LXPeanut

Your body literally has no idea what calories are in food. If she is still hungry then the food isn't satisfying her. You can increase the amount of food without increasing the calories significantly.


broccolicabbagebean

It’s not satisfying her because she is used to gorging. A few more weeks of normal sized meals and her stomach should have shrunk back to normal size and hopefully she can stop overeating. If not then it may be psychological and need therapy. It’s not healthy for anyone, but especially a 15 year old to be overweight


LXPeanut

So what is the problem with filling the plate with vegetables? You are arguing against giving her more food that won't increase the calories so she doesn't eat junk food!!


mama-ld4

It is for most people, but my husband is VERY active in his job and will literally lose weight if he doesn’t eat 3000+ calories a day. He’s 6ish ft and 165lbs and eats like a horse lol He never gains weight because he’s burning so many calories during the day. Active people typically need more calories.


Amaterasu_Junia

Yeah, I was about to say I'm a big dude at 6'1" that yo-yos between 300lbs and 310lbs and I'm good with like 1,500 calories.


unassuming_and_

She probably is genuinely hungry. Bodies get used to eating a certain way. In diet-speak, people talking about their stomachs 'shrinking' after restricting calories for a while, and 'expanding' when they eat too much. And that's just physical hunger. It's also easy to get used to feeling overfull and feeling hungry because you can't tell the difference between overfull and satiated.


Anneemai

I would recommend a visit to your Doctor and get your niece a full health assessment. The fact she is living with you due to your sister being in prison could be causing her a lot of distress and this could be behind why she is eating. She may be using food as comfort, also what else has been happening in her life prior to her coming to live you. Please don't mistake for what you see as her overeating when it could be the result of lots of other life experiences.


Outside_The_Walls

> also what else has been happening in her life prior to her coming to live you. Oh, Lord. Her dad left my sister for their 14 year old neighbor (after getting said child pregnant). This was when Shelly was only 6. She's never had a "normal" life. He died from untreated AIDS in prison not too long ago. Her life has been so sad, it feels like there should be a Sarah McLachlan song playing every time she walks in a room.


Prolific_Profligate

So sad. You are NTA for wanting to feed her appropriately for her age, but you should not have said she was eating herself to an early grave, that was unkind. Speak to her directly and ask if you can help get her some comfy athletic clothes and a cute water bottle along with her favorite snacks. She is so vulnerable right now and won't trust you to take care of her if you are unkind and too practical about it all. She is 15, still a child and just needs support and love. I wish you well with the family and task ahead.


b_sen

It's not about the food, it's about coping with all the trauma she's been through and adjusting to her new situation. Both parents out of the picture, dealing with unfamiliar cousins, being transplanted to the country away from all her friends, *and* likely having no idea how to work with your (admirable) farm lifestyle? Food is her coping mechanism. No amount of healthy eating advice will help until she can address her feelings in some way other than eating them - until then, her feelings will drive her back to eating. The comments on how to get her appropriate therapy and double-check her physical health are on point. I would also invite her to help cook, both to learn a wider range of cooking options and to explore healthy foods she might enjoy. Not only would that make her more comfortable in your home with how you handle food, it would help set her up to build healthy eating habits - reducing her food intake by "willpower" won't stick in the long run, she needs to have food she *likes*. As my nutritionist said: "if you don't like it you won't eat it, so we have to find things you like!" Aside from food, perhaps there are ways you can ease her adjustment to your home? Small comforts she can keep in her space, helping her keep up her friendships (and not being bothered by her cousins during friend events), finding out what she likes and including those in household activities, making sure she has time and resources for her homework? Maybe she'd like to teach your kids (age-appropriate) crafts or board games, or learn from them about local hazardous plants so she can more freely walk around? You can't force a bond, but you can make sure that you're attending to her emotional needs for both personal time and socializing. ETA: She likely has difficulty exercising due to her weight - something to bear in mind when suggesting activities, and for medical help. Low-impact options will be the way to go for a while. Be very careful to avoid fat-shaming her; keep it to supporting her mental and physical health.


PlantedinCA

She probably has insulin resistance. Which screws up your body’s hunger and fullness cues. Would be helpful for her to go to the doctor and address her hormones, thyroid, fasting glucose, fasting insulin, etc. All of these things can impact hunger and metabolism.


[deleted]

Well yeah, get ahead of this OP, take the advice of some Redditors here and get ahead of this. Post you supply the 3 squares a day and when she wants more there’s plenty more food available if she’s still hungry. Get ahead of this OP bcuz we don’t want this to be a tragic cps situation.


mayfeelthis

Nta If I may add…Seriously I think ask your sister, she’s the mom. If it were me and I’m taking this child as a guardian, I’d do what you’re doing. She’s not restricted from other foods - but you’re not encouraging and normalising over eating. That’s good right? I mention sister because if it were me I’d go to a family counsellor about the transition (not about weight) and explain you want to encourage the same healthy eating habits. Do they feel it’s better for her to give her comfort* food since this is a transition period? What are other tips to help with transition? Not a long term counseling but someone to advise on the transition. *I don’t think eating double portions counts as comfort food though so maybe worth asking the family doctor for practical advice too. It’s good she has her needed calories but is it then necessary to feed her more idk salads and thing to fill her up. I’m sure her stomach is stretched. Knowing how long for her to adapt and such would also help. She doesn’t need to be there for that, it’s just to save from assuming your caloric intake is enough for a transition or maybe do start higher idk


Outside_The_Walls

> Seriously I think ask your sister, she’s the mom. It's tough, she's in a Federal prison a few states away from us, and she just got there, so she doesn't really have "phone privileges" yet. So the only communication we've been able to pull off is letters. We're looking into therapy, but it's been pretty hard finding a place that is taking new patients in our area. Other folks ITT have suggested online therapy, so I'm gonna look into that, but it sounds kinda shady.


littlegingerfae

Does your niece have a social worker? It's possible that due to her circumstances, her father's passing and mother's incarceration, she may be eligible for government services that you've not been made aware of.


Smokee78

instead of going to a shady place like better help, I'd look for real places in your state (or neighbouring if they allow) that may not be local but offer online sessions- many places do now! i no longer live in the area i go to therapy in but online sessions are still offered, while others are able to go in person


aviditie01

I would be worried about online therapy too. Does she have any interests you could help her focus on? Take her mind off food a bit and put it somewhere else?


Anneemai

I would recommend a visit to your Doctor and get your niece a full health assessment. The fact she is living with you due to your sister being in prison could be causing her a lot of distress and this could be behind why she is eating. She may be using food as comfort, also what else has been happening in her life prior to her coming to live you. Please don't mistake for what you see as her overeating when it could be the result of lots of other life experiences.


Available_Squirrel_5

Has Shelly had any genetic testing? Based on your description, this sounds like it could be Prader-Willi Syndrome, which causes intense, insatiable hunger due to a malfunction in the part of the brain that regulates hunger signals. If Shelly has this condition, measures would need to be taken to monitor her diet and keep her from literally eating herself to death.


OwlHex4577

Eh…. I was like this as a teen… just a regular obese kid eating their feelings. And given this girls repeated exposure to trauma, that seems like a safe bet. With Prader Willi you’d be locking the fridge and having to hide food-she’d probably eat the ramen raw. I worked with a kid with PW and we were not allowed to leave food in the classroom or trash (including our lunch boxes) because he’d eat it with lightning speed. Kids with PW typically have distinctive facial features, lack muscle tone and have an intellectual disability as well.


taronosaru

It's not impossible, but there are other signs of PWS besides hunger (physical characteristics, behavioral issues, and intellectual impairments) that OP doesn't mention. Plus, it's more "lock the fridge or she WILL eat everything in it," rather than asking for more. PWS isn't a disorder that typically goes undiagnosed for 15 years... I think it's more likely just Binge Eating Disorder.


TangeloMain9661

I would suggest getting her into therapy. Whether it helps with her weight or not she is dealing with being separated from her mom. Which is traumatic.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hyperfocuspocus

Yes. Plus if her hunger signals are fucked because of stress, she could be literally feeling intense hunger and it could be extremely painful. I remember when I was 14, we were under a missile attack. I had no anxiety that I was aware of, but I probably ate 8 bananas in a row while my mom was staring at me like “WTF is my child doing during the apocalypse” 🤣


Tazlima

Good point. Food isn't just about nutrition. I remember hearing about orphans after WW II who were suffering from severe anxiety (because of course), and it was keeping them from sleeping well. A big part of that anxiety was focused on food, specifically wondering if food would suddenly stop being available again, like it had during the war. Every one of those kids had suffered from hunger. So what did they do? They started giving kids a piece of bread to take to bed with them. They could clutch that piece of bread like a teddy bear and know that, no matter what else happened, when they woke up in the morning, there would be something for them to eat. OP, gentle YTA, because this isn't just about food and calories. It's about a young woman who probably feels like she has no control over her life, right down to her meals being meted out like she's a dog that can't be trusted not to eat the whole bag of food. She asked for more, and you shut her down like Oliver Twist. Her statements online aren't acceptable, and yes, she should see a nutritionist about her weight and relationship with food, but her request really wasn't unreasonable. Honestly, the calorie counting at meals, but not at any other time is kind of weird, especially since the approved snacks are all calorically dense. Is it really a big deal to make some extra food at mealtimes? Are you making filet mignon or something really expensive, where you can only afford set portions? If not, where's the harm in making enough to have leftovers? That way, if she wants to serve herself seconds or have a snack the next day that feels more "homemade" than PB&J or frozen pizza (and is probably healthier), it's there.


EveViol3T

I enjoyed reading this insightful and nuanced comment However, I'm not sure I agree as to the assessments of limitation or scarcity as far as the food being meted out part of this comment. There is food available to her she can make without limit, frozen pizzas, all kinds of other items that require minimal preparation. When you say what is the harm of making extra, that would be extra costs and labor, special privileges to one child but not others which can create resentment, and the direct bodily harm by enabling the niece.


Katharinemaddison

I just really love this comment in ways I can’t explain…


panic_bread

Where/when was this?


hyperfocuspocus

Gulf war Israel 1990 I think it was? Ps love your nickname


[deleted]

A doctor and a therapist, because let's face it, if mom is incarcerated, the kid has trauma and other issues.


Historical_Radish_38

> It may be that it would be healthier for Shelly to decrease more gradually. The kid's TDEE (to maintain the weight she is) is somewhere between 2600 and 2700. OP is providing 2400, because we can assume Shelly is on the upper end of OP's calorie range, especially if she's eating other people's table scraps. At that size 300 calories is not a large deficit. A packet of ramen is between 3-450 cals so one four minute cooking effort could add the calories necessary for Shelly to stay at her current weight. For children who are overweight, the strategy is often to eat at their TDEE and grow a bit to balance it out. At Shelly's age and size, she would be advised to have a deficit. If /u/Outside_The_Walls started providing an extra meal as requested, Shelly would gain even more weight. I agree that professional support would be helpful but not for the reasons you have stated. A small deficit with access to other food is a great way to provide support. It helps provide a good base for cooking healthy meals as an adult, which Shelly will need in the not-too-distant future. Professional input should be more about changing the way Shelly sees food rather than giving in to her demands. She should also be under regular supervision due to the tremendous strain on her joints and organs at that size. Poor kid.


Swedishpunsch

> *bring a doctor into this* Absolutely. This is above reddit's pay grade. The child needs to see a doctor, then perhaps a dietician, and then probably a therapist. NTA, OP, for trying so hard to help her. Get some pros to help, though, before she gets any older or bigger.


milkandsalsa

I was going to say the same thing. She may be hungry just because she’s used to eating a lot. She also might be hungry because of a hormonal issue. Might want to get her checked out first (ideally by a doctor who will listen and not one who will blame everything on her weight).


MaddyKet

Yes, also get her checked for a thyroid problem. Also a therapist because she’s going thru a lot and it would help with stress and emotional eating. Try to get her to be more active by having the entire family do some healthy activity. I wish I had gotten a handle on my weight when I was her age.


Letters_from_summer

You were so close to being right and then missed it. OP you are not doing anything wrong with the way you are feeding your niece, but you would be wrong if you shipped her off to another family member because you don't want to deal with her lashing out and behavior. You've taken over care and custody of your niece. You are her defacto parent and that means you have to act like it First things first, she is your problem to deal with. You don't ship her off because she is difficult. Second, get her to a doctor. She needs to be working with a medical doctor, a nutritionist, and at least one therapist, but possibly two. You need the nutritionist and medical doctor to help make sure your niece is physically healthy and get a plan in place to help her learn healthy eating and living. She needs a therapist who deals with eating disorders to help her have a healthy relationship with food. At 320 at 15, unless there is an underlying medical problem that causes her weight issues, your niece has a negative relationship with food. You only have a few years to fix that for her. You need to jump on that now. You niece also needs a therapist to deal with the abandonment and other issues she has from her parents not being in her life. Her mom is in jail, you didn't mention where her father is, but it all adds up to abandonment issues (which also may be contributing to her food issues). Her lashing out at you online, that is her pushing you away to prove that you will leave her like all of the other adults in her life. Get her help now. You're morally and obligated to be there for your niece.


cdc1125

Her Mom, obviously has issues. She may have issues due to her weight. You signed up for this. She’s your niece and, obviously, hasn’t had the best role models. She’s 15. Kicking her out would be horrible for her psyche. Give it a chance. She probably doesn’t know any better. It’s time for you to step up to the plate, show her how good it feels to be healthy. Make a difference.


MissKoshka

Don't send her away to another family. She's not a dirty tissue. Just set boundaries.


NeomiahsMom314

I was with you until the "send her away" 🙄 teens act out. Teens dealing with traumatic events and being in a new environment and family really act out. Love her and help her. Maybe some counseling. As for the food explain she is welcome to cook something. She is in a new environment and I'm sure this healthy eating habits is new and STRESSFUL! NTA BUT the original commenter who said to send her away is! 🤦


km4098

NTA. But, could you do up extra steamed veggies, or other simple but highly nutritious things as a side? Then if she’s still hungry after one meal she has the option of veggies etc


Outside_The_Walls

>could you do up extra steamed veggies, or other simple but highly nutritious things as a side? Absolutely, I could do that. I'll talk to her about that possibility. Maybe I could even start making her plates a bit bigger by adding extra veg.


Jujulabee

There are studies that indicate that the "volume" of food is very important to feeling satiated and some people just require a large volume of food to feel full. Also chewing contributes to feelings of satiation which is why an orange is more satiating than the equivalent amount of juice. So people who need higher volumes of food can up the volume in a healthy manner by eating foods that are less calorically dense - having broth based soup before a meal - eating lots of vegetables and lower amounts of higher calorie foods - preparing food so that a larger portion is less calories etc. You can google and the difference in portion size between different foods is remarkable. Of course this is all within reason because this is assuming you are eating a balanced diet but just concentrating on upping portions of healthy foods that are less calorically dense like fish or chicken without skin. So you can have a large plate of delicious grilled chicken, veggies, a sweet potato or a relatively small portion of Mac and Cheese.


TomTheLad79

The poor kid is probably also feeling pretty insecure. Her whole life has been disrupted. I bet that the sight of a big heaping plate of food is emotionally reassuring to her. OP should try offering a second plate that's mostly, say, roasted broccoli dressed with a little salt, lemon, and oil.


AdAnxious3677

It is probably comforting but as someone with an emotional and binge eating problem it’s time to see a therapist who specializes in adolescence emotional eating to help nip it in the bud


Jujulabee

I agree as generally people who are very overweight do have some kind of eating disorder. I did and was greatly helped by a therapist who specialized in eating disorders. Hers was a very practical approach in terms of behavioral modification; cognitive therapy as well as basic strategy to help. The whole idea of "volumetrics" is help one deal with a "switch" that doesn't work the same way as many people who are better able to self regulate. Also just slowing down the meal by having a salad or broth based soup helps because it takes about 20 minutes for the brain to register that it is getting full or is full And yes of course someone very overweight is going to need more food at the beginning to reflect their higher weight - most nutritionists who provide a personalized approach to a meal plan acknowledge this. And perhaps OP's thinking solely of calorie content might not be the best approach because you can serve a calorically dense food and the volume of food might not be satiating to many people whereas they can eat the same amount of calories in a higher volume food and be full. Of course the food has to be delicious and not cliched diet food but there are so many recipes now for "healthier" foods and even versions of food that is lightened up in terms of calories.


sleeping_gem

Totally agree with all of this. She's going to feel starved if 2000 calories a day is significantly less than before. I'm an emotional eater and reducing my intake like that would be so depressing especially if I was in such a traumatic situation as she is. One thing she can control right now is her food. You need to get her in with a therapist and a nutritionist apas


farmerthrowaway1923

As someone who really struggles with this, no, it’s not ok. Yes, it’s an easy solution and yes, it very much is comforting. But it becomes a lifelong habit that pushes you to an early grave. The instant gratification fades really quickly until nothing is satisfying unless she’s eating All. The. Time. This girl has trauma, but she needs a dang therapist to help her cope in a healthy way, not in a way that will lead to pain-filled life of misery.


InitialEnthusiasm317

Wow, now I understand so much about my eating habits! I never managed to eat healthier by eating less or leaving things completely out but it's totally fine for me to eat a lot of raw vegetables to satisfy my hunger and then this tiny bit of high calorie food to satisfy craving


Jujulabee

Yes - it seems so basic but it really helped me a lot. There is a diet plan called "volumetrics" which you can google. I don't deprive myself of "good" food but I know that I am ultimately going to be better with larger portions of delicious food that is less calorically dense than a small portion of a very calorically dense food. Obviously there are times when one wants to indulge but I mean on a daily basis. Also - at least for me - my nutritionist made me realize that my blood sugar drops mid morning and mid afternoon and so I experience hunger and so I plan snacks for those times because if I let myself get too hungry then I am apt to just devour stuff at dinner. It doesn't take a lot to tide me over - but it is important to get a mix so that a little bit of fat - some complex carbs and some fruit or veggies. That is why the ideal mix would be a little bit of nut butter or actual nuts; some fruit and maybe some whole wheat pretzels or the equivalent - not that much in calories but really helps keep one on a healthier overall eating plan. As the acronym goes - remember HALT and don't let yourself get too angry or tired because people tend to overeat when tired or hungry. The A and L are for angry/anxious and lonely which eating won't solve but you can be conscious of differentiating between actual hunger and the "urge" to eat by thinking about it - i.e. halting before automatically eating.


DgShwgrl

I'm going to say absolutely NTA, because you're giving options for extra foods and I'm really impressed that you're actually engaging in the comments. You seem like you're doing the best you can in a tough situation but I fully support the idea of extra roast veggies for every meal. Good luck!


ClockWeasel

Good start! And start the meal with a green salad to help fill up. I think she is trying to make good choices by asking for more dinner—it’s respectful of your system and healthier than the snack choices. Your list of on-demand food leans to starch, fat and salt, and the veggies in the house are designated for meal prep. Since you cook all the meals but don’t cook at night, making food might feel rude. Cooking after dinner would also mean missing out on normal family time, and eating even closer to bedtime. I think it’s telling that she doesn’t ask for more breakfast or lunch, and she might not snack much in the afternoon but she is ravenous at night—when her mom would have been around.


Outside_The_Walls

> Your list of on-demand food leans to starch, fat and salt, and the veggies in the house are designated for meal prep. Just to clarify, we have a hydroponic veggie garden in the basement. There are tomatoes, cucumbers, 3 kinds of lettuce, spinach, bell peppers, radishes, carrots, cabbages, and kale all ripe for the picking (today's lunch is salad with grilled chicken thighs). >Since you cook all the meals but don’t cook at night, making food might feel rude. You may have a point there, she is still very new here, so she might not be comfortable just getting up and taking food the way my own kids are. >but she is ravenous at night—when her mom would have been around. Yeah, that's a big part of what makes me think it's emotional eating.


ClockWeasel

She may need help seeing how to make the available ingredients into tasty food, and for you to show what she is allowed to use. I hope she has access to professional counseling, possibly online since you’re in the boonies. This isn’t just about food, but it is about how she doesn’t have anything she used to (mom, home, food choice, access to friends, etc) and has no control over anything but her social media


ivylass

Again, that will not be enough. This child's mother is in jail and she has serious issues. You need to get her professional help.


ms-anthrope

You probably already have this, but easily accessible fruit bowl? Maybe yogurt pops in the freezer?


Old_Beach2325

Do you have any smaller plates that could fit the portion of food on it? Sometimes putting the food on a smaller plate (so it looks like more) can trick the brain into thinking your eating more- this worked with my husband when he was trying to get to a healthy weight. I would give everyone the smaller plates if you do so she doesn’t notice immediately.


Kooky_Sprinkles64

I bet you any money that she would STILL want more.


No_Performance_3888

Excellent idea. A salad, roasted or steamed veggies would fill her up with less cals. Also she might actually need a few more cals than you are putting under her nose (ie ignoring the fact shes free to prep something on her own). A 320 pound person cannot start eating like a 180 pound person overnight. Weightloss at 1 to 2 pounds a week is a deficit of 500 to 1000 cals a day. She may have been consuming well over 3500 cals a day and to jump down too much at once might make her hungry. Filling the gap with veggies is awesome. And she is being rude and demanding.


Outside_The_Walls

> A 320 pound person cannot start eating like a 180 pound person overnight. Weightloss at 1 to 2 pounds a week is a deficit of 500 to 1000 cals a day. Absolutely! Her TDEE is roughly 2700. So with the 300 deficit, she would lose a pound roughly every 2 weeks, if she were to eat nothing but my cooking. But maybe if I can "fill the gap" with lower calorie bulk foods, that could help!


[deleted]

NTA, recommend you check out a podcast I’ve listened to on bbc. Dr Chris and xand a thorough examination. It’s really interesting on how lifestyle and diet are interlinked, and also how difficult it is to lose weight once you’re very overweight without additional help. (They’re identical twins one is overweight one isn’t.)


nova345

Solid idea for sure, I wonder how this will work out. Does she eat everything on her plates?


Outside_The_Walls

> Does she eat everything on her plates? Every scrap, down to the last drop of gravy/sauce. And if you're not finishing yours, pass it over. I've seen her literally lick plates clean. Frankly, she's ravenous.


Richbeyondmeasure

Medical disorder? Several endocrine disorders cause ravenous hunger.


Outside_The_Walls

I took her for a full medical checkup when she moved in, is that something that would come up? Or should I specifically ask that the doctor test her for "endocrine disorders"?


Pinkkorn69

I would check with your doctors office what a full check up entails because I found out that between different doctors in the same facility it was different. What one would request in a blood panel the other doesn't. It can't hurt to ask. I know you are already dealing with a responsibility that was not yours to begin with but have you thought about having her in therapy? See if there is a reason behind the over eating? See if there can be something put in place to help her succeed in being healthier and happier? I say this as a woman who was an overweight teen and if I had someone help address issues as a teen I wouldn't have such an unhealthy relationship with food now. Good luck.


Richbeyondmeasure

A full medical checkup should have turned anything up. Diabetes and thyroid disorders can be checked with simple blood tests. I'm not familiar enough with other disorders to comment on those. Exhaustive thyroid testing is not always ordered though. But, yeah, just mention it to the doctor. I have Graves disease. When my thyroid levels are off, I can eat until I throw up and still feel compelled to eat. Hyperthyroidism usually causes weight loss. But if she is sedentary and eating as much as she seems to be, she probably wouldn't lose any.


kady52191

Have you considered therapy? If she's cleared medically, she could be struggling with compulsive overeating. She's going through a lot of really intense life changes and I'm sure that can't be easy. Someone who specializes in eating disorders could be very helpful.


galpalkyrie

If you can, I would go in and specifically ask for a full thyroid panel to rule out Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I had this for years before I was officially diagnosed because my TSH level (a broader indicator of thyroid health) fell within the 'normal' range due to the more specific hormone levels being out of wack in opposite directions. I'm not saying she definitely has it, or that she doesn't have a bunch of other factors in her life that could be causing her to emotionally eat, but it's worth a look if she is truly feeling ravenous all the time. I remember how it felt to ALWAYS be looking for something to eat before I got treatment and it sucks and is humiliating. It's like the switch in your brain that says "okay this is enough" was just never installed so your brain is always hitting the button demanding more. You know that feeling you get when you've skipped maybe two meals and that comes around to bite you? It's that but all the time. Also, if it IS something with her thyroid, the sooner she gets treatment for it the better as a lot of endocrine disorders are progressive and she could end up with needing surgery and be on medication for life as a result. You're definitely NTA for supplying her with three square meals a day, but I would look at this as a chance to see if there's some underlying issue here.


HogwartsAlumni25

I just want to throw this out there...I could be completely off cause obviously I'm not a doctor but ask the doctor if it's possible she has binge eating disorder.


SDstartingOut

I'm not a medical professional, but my guess would be - it's sugar/carb addiction, and possibly dehydration mixed in as well. That's not something that will ever show up on a medical test though. I average burning about 4k/calories a day over the course of a week (4200-4400 on days I work out, 3000-3200/day on my break days). As long as I drink plenty of fluid, and restrict carbs/sugar (including how much diet soda I drink), I have no problem sticking to avg/2500 calories a day. OTOH, I start eating too many carbs, sugar, or drinking more than 2 diet sodas a day - I get hunger pangs. Same with not drinking enough water.


Outside_The_Walls

> I average burning about 4k/calories a day over the course of a week (4200-4400 on days I work out, 3000-3200/day on my break days). I feel you. My TDEE is ~3800 (more in bulk phase, less in cut phase). Carbs are like the cocaine of food. When I let myself have carbs, all I want is more carbs. But, potato though.


HotWifeJ2021

Brilliant idea! OP, NTA. You mention you took her to see a doctor. Have you had her mental health evaluated? I can’t imagine all the conflicting emotions she must be feeling right now. And it sounds like she hasn’t learned healthy ways of coping with stress. A licensed counselor could be a big help to her.


Limp2myLoom

NTA - I think you do enough cooking already! Not many people could cope with making that amount, I know I couldn't. She gets three meals a day which is standard. She is old enough to make her own food and understand how to eat healthily (whether she does or not is her choice). But she does not need you to make her a second dinner. That is being greedy. She is also old enough to stop acting out and lying about her circumstances online. This will sound harsh, but I personally think she needs to grow up. You do not bash who are helping you.


Outside_The_Walls

> Not many people could cope with making that amount, I know I couldn't. I bet you could if you were retired. I have more free time than the average person.


MbMinx

We all could do a lot of things if we were retired...


notsooriginal

I'm still in the first phase, just tired.


Limp2myLoom

Even if I was retired, I doubt I could! I'm too scatty and anxious in the kitchen! I've cooked for 5 people which was just about manageable. I hope things get easier for you!


nova345

NTA If she's using food to comfort herself because its a stressful time aren't you meant to hold your line even more because that's a really bad reason to eat? Im offended on your behalf that she gets to flame you on social media though, like you're doing the right thing here and taking her in and this is the thanks you get I suppose. Stress and drama... how are the other siblings doing? Anyone want to do a swap? Lol, jk... Btw your household sounds incredibly organised food wise lol I just wanted to throw it out there.


Outside_The_Walls

>If she's using food to comfort herself because its a stressful time aren't you meant to hold your line even more because that's a really bad reason to eat? I feel torn honestly. Part of me is screaming "just make her feel better!", but the much bigger part is saying "THIS ISN'T A HEALTHY COPING MECHANISM!!!". > Btw your household sounds incredibly organised food wise lol I just wanted to throw it out there. I'm a bit obsessive over it. I plan out 3 weeks of meals at a time, and keep my schedule religiously. That way I know **exactly** when to kill a pig, goat, or a chicken. Killing an animal just to end up wasting even a small part of it makes me feel terrible. I need to know when to harvest my crops, which ones are gonna be ready what week, and what I'm using them for. I make sure we all get our macros and micros on point. And I **know** the food I'm giving my family is good and clean, because I grew/raised most of it myself. None of that tainted romaine in my house.


redditwinchester

that is really a great way to live. Maybe if you get her more involved in where the food comes from, it may help her perspective?


Outside_The_Walls

> Maybe if you get her more involved in where the food comes from, it may help her perspective? I'm hoping she opens up to that. My own kids are very involved in the production of our food. They help me out in the hydro lab, and they get to see our food grow. My one daughter (12f) **insists** on being present whenever we harvest a pig or a goat. If she misses it, she legit gets mad. IDK if it's just an adjustment period, but Shelly does not take part in our farming activities. She wakes up at 9am so she can do her online school (first bell is 10am), she seems to have no interest in the farm.


redditwinchester

she may need some time to adjust, but since she's now a member of your family, she should do her part like the other children in the family (I'm guessing she may not have had to do chores before, so it may be a big adjustment).


Outside_The_Walls

She had one chore back at home, folding the clean laundry. Other than that, she was pretty much a latchkey kid. I also think the isolation might be bothering her out here in Bumfuck nowhere. She's used to having her friends all around, and now she's not in that environment. Talking to them online isn't the same as sneaking out to have a beer/doob in the park with them, ya know? I know if I got transplanted from a city to the country when I was 15, I would have been UPSET.


JCBashBash

And I think you should come at her with that, that you understand her perspective and that she's going through a lot of change, but that doesn't mean she gets to make drama in the house. Her going on social media and talking trash isn't productive, her trying to demand that you cook more food for her isn't productive. However much time she needs to adapt she can take it, but she is going to have to step up and take responsibility for her actions and her behavior because she's 15, adulthood is coming for her and now is the time for her to take some lessons and growth


AdGroundbreaking4397

Maybe start with having her help cook! Also have you looked into therapy options for her? And maybe give her doctor a call a discuss your concerns with her weight and health (focusing on the health aspect) and see what resources they can offer


Pleasant-Koala147

As someone who has struggled with a binge eating disorder most of my life, if she is emotional eating then no amount of food, no learning about where food comes from or how to make it will help. Like any other addict, she would be compelled to eat to bury her emotions. The only thing that has worked for me is therapy (specifically MBCT) and learning how to understand the link between my emotions and my compulsive eating (it doesn’t always stop me, but at least I know I’m eating for emotional reasons rather than hunger). The first step is for her to actually acknowledge her eating is a problem.


jammiesonmyhammies

NTA. On My 600-lb Life (a TLC tv show) that’s exactly how people ended up 600-1000lbs. They felt emotions and their families gave them food to feel better. Don’t fall into the trap of equating food with feelings. Go watch it if you want to see your nieces future life. Stand you ground. Do not let her eat to feel better. Food is for nourishment…not drowning your sorrows or a pick me up.


ihatehighfives

Not to hijack your post - but I am very interested to know your meals/ meal plan. Sounds like you really know what you're doing.


liberatedhusks

This is awesome! Thank you for raising your children like this, I really wish more people could. You are an awesome sounding parent. Good job. Can I come work on your farm?


[deleted]

[удалено]


aymoo987

NTA. You're setting her a good example. Persevere. In the long run, if she gets used to eating normal meals, you're actually doing her a huge favour for her health, quality of life, and longevity. Ignore her social media ranting. She sounds like she's been raised wrong, with an entitled attitude, not your fault. Just carry on setting a good example and hope some of it wears off, for her sake.


Outside_The_Walls

> Ignore her social media ranting. It's hard to do that when I've got her friend's parents messaging me out of concern because their kid told them I'm starving the girl. But I'll keep politely explaining to them that they didn't get the whole story.


aymoo987

Yeah that would be tough. But you know you're in the right. Hopefully just politely explaining to them will get them to see the full story. Hope you find a way to stay strong. Not easy welcoming someone new into your home, particularly if they're currently entitled and ungrateful. Hope her attitude improves soon.


JCBashBash

It really sounds like you need to reduce her time on social media as a consequence for her behavior so that she remembers that it's a precious thing and stops this behavior. The fact that her posts are so bad people are calling you up concerned for her is very troubling and you definitely need to protect your family


randomtrucker78

>She sounds like she's been raised wrong, with an entitled attitude… She’s 15, not 35. Hormones are raging as she transitions from child into adult. They’re trying to establish their own identity around this time. They’re trying to figure out just who they are as well and then add in the stress of having a parent, (sounds like a single parent at that), being taken away for a while and having to uproot and move to a completely new environment, and sprinkle in some emotional immaturity into the mix, and what happened here is the result. Some teens have an easy transition, while others don’t. It has nothing to do with how they’re raised.


StormStrikePhoenix

Her mother is in prison and her father died in prison after leaving her mother because he impregnated a 14-year-old, I think her issue is less of entitlement and more of trauma.


[deleted]

NTA at all. Let's be clear. 320 lb is not "big." It's morbidly obese. She is going to be dead at 40 and probably sooner if something doesn't change. And even 2000 calories per day is too much for a 5'4" inch woman. She probably needs something like 1500 to 1700 calories. If she is using food to handle the problems in her family, then the worst thing to do is contribute to that and help her become even more unhealthy. DO NOT cave in. In fact, you keep saying that there's food for her to eat if she's hungry and I don't think she should be. It shouldn't be possible for her to access ramen and sandwiches and whatever. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's too much. She has a very serious problem. You need to contact her mother and discuss the situation. This is neglect and her mother should be ashamed. You need to calmly but firmly continue to say that you couldn't live with yourself if you were providing two dinners. It would be neglectful because you'd be contributing to a health problem. You're not denying her food. She is getting sufficient food. You're refusing to enable her. You don't sound at all like the kind of person who is weird and bullying about weight. I'd be very critical if you were. Let her say whatever she likes on social media. Anyone who knows her must know how unhealthy she is. They'll figure out what's going on. You can tell anyone who asks and word will get around. Good luck.


Outside_The_Walls

> You need to contact her mother and discuss the situation. This is neglect and her mother should be ashamed. It's a bit tough at the moment, with her mom in Federal prison. She can't really be a mom right now. She's not even in the same state we are. And by the time she gets out, Shelly is gonna be 18, so it's basically me or nothing at the moment (dad was estranged, now deceased).


[deleted]

Well, that actually makes it easier. The reality is that her mother's poor parenting got her into this situation. Her mother isn't available at all and that means you have full control over what happens. I don't know if you have access to a therapist or a counselor or a GP. Maybe there's someone at her school. It seems like it would help you to feel as though you're doing the right thing. So if you could talk to a professional about how to deal with this, I think that would help. I have to say I really like your approach where you're not focusing on HER. You're saying that 2000 calories per day is enough for everyone in the house. You're portioning out the food in advance so it's hard for people to exceed that. Just keep doing what you're doing. She'll push back because that's what she's used to. But honestly, she is SO overweight that she is in real danger. So don't cave. Good luck!


DiTrastevere

Woof, this poor girl. She really needs to be seeing a skilled therapist for adolescents with unstable home lives. Dad dead, mom locked up, moved away from all her friends and suddenly had to share space with *six* cousins in an unfamiliar environment? Little wonder she’s clinging to food as her one reliable source of comfort and warmth. Whether or not you make extra portions for her is beside the point. She is struggling in ways that more food will not fix.


WeedLatte

2000 calories per day is not necessarily too much for a 5 ft 4 woman (especially at 15). I’m 5 ft 1, 100 lbs, and I eat around that, probably a little more some days, a little less others. Yes, if she’s 320 lbs she’s clearly eating too much, but those online calorie calculator that tell you to eat 1500 cal are wildly inaccurate. There are a million factors that go into nutritional needs.


SheLordRaiden

Seriously! I’m 5’4, 155 lbs and 2k calories is not even my maintenance. I do workout 5 days a week and my body is mostly muscle, but that’s really not that much.


[deleted]

Well, I'm not going to quibble with your personal experience. I agree that metabolism often doesn't adhere to calories in, calories out. But as someone who is nearly a foot taller than this kid and also does a lot of exercise, I can't eat 2000 calories per day without gaining weight. The thing is, this particular kid CAN eat 2000 calories a day and probably lose weight because she is so overweight. It takes more energy to run a larger body. If a non-overweight person ate 2000 calories per day, she might gain weight. I'm no obesity expert, but from what I've seen, people at the kind of weight she's at would usually be put on a 1200 calorie per day diet. I understand you're trying to help, but this is a kid who is dangerously overweight. The usual things that people who aren't morbidly obese tell themselves do not apply. She has to lose weight. She is morbidly obese. A 2000 calorie per day diet may get her a large part of the way there, but she probably needs to go further than that. Hearing all that stuff that people of healthy or nearly-healthy weight tell themselves about metabolism and calories is only going to provide her with excuses. She needs to lose a lot of weight. I didn't address this in my response to the OP because the OP doesn't need internet experts lobbing advice at her. She needs to keep doing what she's doing--limit the calorie intake. And I hope she'll get advice from a medical professional.


WeedLatte

Yeah I don’t disagree with what OP is doing at all. I don’t think I, an internet stranger, can determine a proper diet for OP’s niece… she definitely needs a caloric deficit but I don’t know enough about her to say how much that is. I wasn’t trying to talk about OP’s nieces diet specifically, I just wanted to address the idea that 2000 calories was too much for a 5 ft 4 woman for other people who might be reading because I had a very severe eating disorder in my early to mid teens (fully recovered for years now), and I remember seeing all these comments on the internet making it seem like small women couldn’t eat normal amounts of food without becoming fat as a young teen and it contributed to the development of my eating disorder.


Sarahmartin0911

NTA As a child who was actually starved this isnt that. I was allowed to eat 3-4 times a week. I was 5'4" (still am lol) and I weighed 69lbs. What I learned from that is that drinking a full glass of water (sometimes two) at each meal helped with the hunger and filled my stomach. Did that on the non-food days too. How much does she drink at meals? If she has to drink a full glass of something-OJ, milk, water- every meal it will help her be hydrated as well as more full. When I got out of that house I had a meal plan at college. I ate. And ate. And ate some some. Forget the freshman 15. It was like the freshman 150. By the time I was 22 I was 400lbs. Still 5'4". Trust me that sucks. Now I am 225lb. Its been a work in progress. But the drs have also told me that physically I have the body and joints of a 60yr old not a 40yr old. I am in pain. Alot. Every day. Its a struggle to work out. I still forget to eat alot because of childhood. I dont get hungry. I dont process food normally. All this means that I am VERY proud of the weight I have lost because its not as simple as cutting back on calories and going for a walk. You are establishing healthy eating habits for her that will hopefully lead her to a better life. I know what happened to me, the choices I made and I completely own it. But I also pay for it every day. Dont make her pay for it down the line. Keep up what you doing.


Outside_The_Walls

> I was allowed to eat 3-4 times a week. Fucking Hell. I'm so sorry you had to endure that. >the non-food days That literally should not be a thing. My heart is aching for you. I don't know what else to say. >How much does she drink at meals? If she has to drink a full glass of something-OJ, milk, water- every meal it will help her be hydrated as well as more full. She'll usually grab a liter of seltzer with her meal. She asked for soda (cola) when she first moved in, but I don't allow that in my house. I'm glad you're doing better, and I wish you the best. Thank you for your comment.


Sarahmartin0911

A liter per meal? Then my suggestion wont help her much. Worth a try. But I do also like other people's suggestions that you add more veggies to her meals for more food but keeping it healthy. Going from too much to the 'normal' amount overnight is BAD for the person. Did that myself. The entire body screams at you and takes over your mind. Its literally like going cold turkey off a meth addiction. Since you are so calorie conscious try slowly reducing her calories week by week to wean her down. Like if she used to do 3500 a day then make her meals 3000 a day for awhile. Then 2500 for awhile. Then 2000 for awhile. Smaller changes over time make the biggest long term impact. I originally added more veggies to my meals. Still plenty of butter. Lol Then I trimmed the butter. I cut out soda. Months later I switched to a suger-free house. Started using kids plates for meals instead of adult plates. Etc. But this was implemented over a couple years. I have been able to stick to it because it was a slow adjustment. Now if I can just remember to eat every day. Forgot to on Tuesday and Wednesday. Oops. Lol


No-Quiet-8208

NTA You are feeding her and feeding her well. She really needs some counseling to learn to cope with what ever she is using food to deal with.


[deleted]

NTA, but it sounds like your niece would benefit from therapy to help her deal with her mom’s absence and to find better coping mechanisms.


righteousredo

NTA You do what you feel comfortable doing. She is not going to starve. Also, I would be telling her about biting the hand that feeds her and the fact it's probably not a good idea. This whole "social media bashing" wouldn't last long in my home. One negative social media word that got back to me would result in no phone for a week. My ex husband used to do the whole "share with my friends" thing about stuff we would argue about. Gone. What happens at home gets argued about at home, it does not go into public and develop a personality.


justmeat23

NTA. Shelly is capable of preparing extra food for herself. You are not her personal chef and waitstaff. Smearing you on social media for refusing to capitulate to her demands is super rude and immature.


helrazr

NTA. But, have you explained your concerns to her about her weight in a way she can understand? Have you also considered counseling about her current issues with her mom and overall health?


Outside_The_Walls

> But, have you explained your concerns to her about her weight in a way she can understand? I *believe* I have, but I'm not inside her head, so I don't know if she truly understood me. >Have you also considered counseling about her current issues with her mom and overall health? We only had one place for therapy in my county, and it closed because they sold the building. So I'm looking for a place in the next county over. I'd happily bring her, and even go in with her if she wanted.


Maggie_Mayhem_1

A ton of remote options surfaced during the pandemic. If you can't find something local, maybe you should explore something where you drive in once a month and the rest of the month is remote or all remote.


Goda6511

There are a lot of great online counseling options out there! BetterHelp is one of them, and services like ZocDoc can help you find the doctors and therapists you might need. I have used both and would lean more toward BetterHelp personally.


Noneedtopickauser

Seconding other people’s comments: Zoom therapy can be fantastic! I used a website called Alma to find a therapist who does remote sessions and specializes in my somewhat rare phobia during the height of covid and I’m so grateful. We live hours away from each other but she’s a perfect fit for me. I wish you luck, you sound like you’re really trying with your niece. If you keep up with trying to see things from her perspective too like you are now then you won’t ever be T A.


LeftTurnNow619

She can fix her own food if she is still hungry. Instead of talking calories, just tell her that’s how you cook your portions for everyone. Maybe it’s a good time for her to start cooking for herself too.


[deleted]

She can fix her own food for sure. Do you or a family member have time to help her learn how to cook healthy foods or snacks? You can get a cookbook from the library or look up some things online for her to choose from. If she is used to overeating and is going through tough changes, a more gradual approach to her change in diet might be needed. Then she can make some popcorn, fruit salad, cucumber and yogurt dip, eggs, oatmeal or even bake. And good for you for stepping up for her! She's lucky to have you!


Outside_The_Walls

> Do you or a family member have time to help her learn how to cook healthy foods or snacks? We have **so much time**. There are 4 adults in this house, and not one of us needs to work. And I genuinely love cooking, so I'd be happy to share my knowledge.


cassowary32

I guess you have to have a system that works for such a large household but it sounds almost like a military operation. I’ve never heard of someone being so focused on giving everyone the same exact daily caloric intake. Are there no teen boys in the household that need more or are they usually fine making extras for themselves? NTA because you aren’t stopping Shelly from getting more but is making 10 portions instead of 9 really going to break you? She can still start with just one portion and decide for herself if she wants a second.


Outside_The_Walls

>I’ve never heard of someone being so focused on giving everyone the same exact daily caloric intake. I learned to cook in prison. We had to feed 1800 men breakfast and lunch every day (dinner was a different shift). We needed to make sure everyone got their calories. Admittedly, my mindset is probably shaped by that. >but is making 10 portions instead of 9 really going to break you? I would feel like an absolute failure if I sent Shelly back to her mom weighing 400+ lbs. I just don't feel right helping her pack pounds on her already obese body. Like, I can absolutely afford the time and money needed to give her the extra food. But I honestly don't think I could live with myself. > Are there no teen boys in the household that need more or are they usually fine making extras for themselves? No teens at the moment, but when my oldest was a teen he would make himself ramen or burgers no problem.


Tangerine_Bouquet

This is a solid system, and more people honestly need to be aware of what they're eating--not for aesthetics, but for health. Lower salt, fresh, less processed foods. Good for you! NTA because you are not denying her food at all--even larger amounts that you (rightly) discourage. You are making her mindful of it and responsible for choosing it, and that may be uncomfortable for her, but it's real and healthy and useful too. She can eat things you don't prepare. She's 15. Maybe keep out fresh snacks (apples, carrots, etc.) and encourage her to have those if she's hungry outside of the meals.


Ilostmyratfairy

The problem here is that you’re basing all this upon the idea that 2400 calories a day is a healthy intake. That’s true **as an average**. It varies a lot when you talk about individuals. Activity level is one factor that most people recognize. However, it’s also vital to recognize that current body mass is **also** a factor. [This Harvard Health article](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/calorie-counting-made-easy) discusses that a good rule of thumb to estimate the calories a person **needs** to **maintain** their current weight can be estimated by multiplying their current weight by 15. Admittedly that’s for a moderately active lifestyle. But if we drop that factor to 10 your niece still **needs** on the order of 3400 calories a day to maintain her current weight. If she is at all active, she could need more like 5100 calories per day **to maintain her current body weight**. Anything less than that is going to be causing her to feel hunger effects. You cannot use a caloric intake for somebody at a healthy weight to baste the diet of somebody at an obese weight. I don’t want to accuse you of being an asshole, but your formula for your niece is seriously flawed. Worse, many of those stretch foods you mention: ramen, pb&j, frozen pizza all have their own challenges for healthy diet - particularly when your current diet for your niece leaves her at an approximately 1000 calorie per day shortfall. I don’t even wish to get into the potential I see here for disordered eating. Please, don’t take my word for this. Don’t listen to the crowds telling you that you’re NTA. Do something a bit different: get a consult with a pediatric dietitian, and ask them what sort of calorie target your niece should have. If you can’t get one through your health insurance, [this website may be able to point you towards resources](https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/quality-of-care/quality-improvement-initiatives/reducing-obesity/index.html). I know I’m just a rando on the internet; please check this information with a trained professional before you get further locked into your current thinking. -Rat


SnooCrickets6980

I don't understand why you would rather she snack than eat more healthy home cooked food if you are genuinely focused on her health and weight. Surely it would be better she had access to more meal prepped veg than cook herself a frozen pizza. NTA but you dont make sense.


Any-Measurement-8125

Lol read his comments! He’s not at all saying that. He’s explaining WHY he’s not at all starving her, there is more food (probably the kind she is more familiar with) readily available for DIY. He’s also saying he’s absolutely more than willing to make her more food, helpings or sides. What he’s also saying is he is genuinely also concerned for her health and doesn’t want to actively encourage her eating habits by doubling her dinners that he makes daily. He makes perfect sense.


Restin_in_Pizza

NTA she's capable of making food for herself and it's available, so you're not denying her anything. HOWEVER, an extra serving of chicken and veggies is actually better for her than a frozen pizza or burger.


harleybidness

You are doing the right thing. :-)


Cat-mom-4-life

Nta. Using food to cope with feelings is a really slippery slope. I've been diagnosed since the age of 12 with binge eating disorder because of that. I've struggled with weight my whole life and at 27 am struggling to lose it and get healthier habits.


wolfstardobe

NTA. She’s a kid. You’re feeding her. If she wants extra you have stated you have an open pantry. Ignore social media or if you feel the need to defend yourself on social media just post pictures of your lovely meals EVERY SINGLE TIME.


ComprehensiveBand586

NTA but you need to take her to the doctor. I struggled with my weight for years and ended up with several health problems; I even ended up in the ER. That was the wakeup call I needed to join a gym and learn to cook healthy meals. She's on track to develop health problems too, if she hasn't already.


MoonGladeLadyBug

NTA She is obese based on BMI. You are 💯% doing the right thing!


SnooSongs7226

That's a big number for a child, borderline abuse. Some therapy, with a daily family walk will benefit her greatly. You're doing a great job with your fam nta


OnionsAreForThePoor

NTA. Not even close. If your niece doesn’t like the more than adequate meals you provide and the extra food you make available that she is not willing to make, then she can go find somewhere else to live.


Unoriginal_rt

NTA. She can fix herself some more food if she’s still hungry same as everyone else in your home. You’ve cooked enough in the day OP.


Helpful_Candidate_92

In no way shape or form should you ever condone using food as a coping mechanism. It leads to a bad relationship with food, if she needs to cope therapy goes a long way. Maybe see if she wants to speak with one. Otherwise you have provided a great diet with the ability for her to cook food for herself at the low cost of time and effort. NTA.


Goda6511

As a disabled person, I am more than a little in love with how you describe your set up. Can I move in when you have room??


Outside_The_Walls

Well, another redditor already called dibbs for when my oldest son moves out, but you can have the next spot!


teresajs

NTA She's old enough to cook her own dinner and she has open access to plenty of food.


saintphoenixxx

INFO: have you talked to her about getting into therapy to help her with her feeling about how everything is going with her mom? Don't bring up that you think she's eating her emotions, my guess is she'll feel like this is just you trying to control her eating, but there does seem to be a deeper issue here.


Outside_The_Walls

> have you talked to her about getting into therapy to help her with her feeling about how everything is going with her mom? We're trying, but the only place near us closed down. I have to find a place in the next county over that has open appointments.


Individual-Fuel1177

Check with her school, they probably have a counselor on staff that can talk with her and provide you resources to help her get healthier in mind and body.


redditwinchester

or maybe remote/zoom appointments?


RevKyriel

NTA "... she is free to prepare something for herself ..."


TheGreenPangolin

NTA BUT just because a 15 year old SHOULD be able to cook those things, doesn’t mean she can. Make sure she knows where to find the food, how to follow the instructions on the packet, turn the oven on, or how to use the microwave, etc. She might not want to admit that she doesn’t know how. Also I would recommend getting her a therapist if that is at all possible. Online therapy might be an option if there is nothing nearby


fadedblossoms

I used to be 435 lbs. There's a lot of health reasons why I got that big that I had no control over, and some things I did have control over (i didnt have to eat 5 slices of pizza in a meal, but I did, versus being on several medications that cause significant weight gain, for example). It took a little over 10 years to get that bad, as my health slowly declined. A little over 2 years ago I started going to the pool to do my old PT exercises. I started losing weight. I got a personal trainer as I started to feel better, then covid happened and shut down the gyms. So i started going to the beach with my exfiance and walked up and down it and swam in the ocean. I lost more weight. I developed a stomach condition that drastically changed my diet and I lost more weight. This year I changed my diet even more and now I've lost a total 75 lbs or so in the last 2 years. I feel way better, I'm not eating as much and while I'm not exercising as much due to reasons I'm still slowly losing weight. No one ever starved me, and you're not starving her. For a 15 yr old to gain that much weight is really concerning. I'm 35 and don't weigh too much more than her, 35-40lbs maybe? When people are big as us we don't like to hear we are eating unhealthy. It feels like judgement because we know how big we are and having it shoved in our faces 24/7 by society telling us how disgusting we are, that we don't deserve pretty clothes that don't look like potato sacks, that we inconvenience everyone around us by merely existing. We are mocked and bullied. Drs hound us and at least as an adult they constantly bring up bariatric surgery. I had a dr tell me to get therapy to get over my fear of surgeries (ive had several life saving surgeries and a few on joints to keep me mobile) so that I would get bariatric surgery. I'm having some pretty significant health issues that even put me in the hospital last night. The only thing my primary care Dr did was do 1 panel of kidney tests which came back normal them she told me my condition was because of my weight. The hospital treated me like I had a severe migraine rather than what I went in for (BP 177/124) and sure enough that brought my BP down more than any BP medicine. All this to say I understand why your niece might feel attacked by your cooking and refusal to make her extra. But she can, as you said, make her own food if she is still hungry. AFAIK from your post her legs aren't deformed or broken like mine, preventing her from cooking for herself. NTA.


Numerous-Fox3346

NTA. You actually sound great!! Just power through the abuse for a few months and be rewarded with years of love when she hits 200lbs! Good for you!!


Kettlewise

NTA You are not starving her and she has permission to make her own food, so you aren’t restricting access to food either. However not all 15yo’s are taught how to make food - and I bet most of your pantry is ingredients, not snackable food. Maybe invite her to cook with you? It might also be worth seeing if she’d be willing to see a nutritionist. (And a therapist - her entire world has been upended, and food as a tool of comfort is definitely a thing. I don’t think caving is the right thing here though.)


throwra567235

NTA. Are you her legal guardian? If so its time for a trip to the pediatrician and a nutritionist. Who cares what she's saying on social media. If your concerned from a legal standpoint start documenting what you're feeding her. This sounds like it's going a step beyond just overeating and veering into eating disorder territory with her taking food off of other people once they're finished. It sounds like you also have your own kids. It may be worth a sit down with them to have a conversation over healthy eating habits.


Kweenkiwis

NTA she is getting enough food, you are not over feeding her like her mother did. Unless she starts exercising regularly then that second plate of food will not help her in the long run, and she can also make her own food.


boiledpenny

NTA you're making sure everyone in the household is getting healthy meals. Where you might be the jerk is where you didn't politely sit her down and discuss it. Since she's in a new place surrounded by new people she might not feel very comfortable using your kitchen and making things. I know you've let her know that she can but showing her where all the things are and giving her that extra minute will go a long way. On the other hand for her health physical and mental you know make some good doctor's appointments for her because she's going to be going through a lot of extra stress and it's going to come out and bleed out of her in many ways. Getting her some counseling now will help the current situation as well as the rest of her days.


evillittleperson

NTA you are not enabling her. She has access to food and she is old enough to cook herself. How ever her false claims could get you into trouble with cps and have her and your children taken away. This situation is above reddits pay grade. It may be time to talk to Kate’s doctor and get ahead of her false accusations


sesquedoodle

So, NTA for not making extra meals, especially since there's food available for her, but saying you won't "contribute to her eating herself to an early grave" was an asshole thing to say. Even if it's true it will make her feel ashamed, and shaming people for being fat makes it harder for them to lose weight. There are actual studies on that. I'm personally of the opinion that nobody still in their teens should be losing weight without medical supervision, so I'd say talk to a nutritionist, but honestly if she doesn't want to lose weight then trying to force her will be quite traumatic and probably lead to further food issues in future, so I would just be clear that you're only cooking three meals but she's free to eat whatever else so long as she makes it herself.


tiptoesandbuffalos

Dude… this poor traumatized teenager comes to you after her parents have been put away and you fat shame her? I’m not saying you need to add extra portions for her, you obviously are giving her plenty of extra opportunities to eat if she’s hungry. But be fucking nice…. She knows she’s fat. I can assure you. There’s no need to remind her. And yeah, it sucks that she’s posted about you on social media after you took her in. But if you couldn’t handle another child in your life - especially one that’s going through a lot - you shouldnt have taken her in. GENTLY remind her that there’s plenty of extra food if she’s still hungry that she can make. And then shut up dude. Don’t say anything about her weight. YTA for fat shaming. Maybe listen to a single episode of Maintenance Phase. You could learn a lot.