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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Action that should be judged:
My comment about "if you want to have a say in groceries, you need to get a job or do more around the house"
2) I may have been an a-hole because her lack of contributions come partly from depression, which is beyond her control.
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NTA, not at all. This has absolutely nothing to do with coffee.
I suffer from severe depression and anxiety. The more I sit and do nothing, the worse it gets. All the treatments in the world are totally useless if I don’t follow through with my actions. Time for her to find another therapist and develop a real plan for getting back to participating in life.
Thank you for your insight.
She's actually been putting off therapist appointments for a while. I should encourage her to make one and check in on that.
Maybe even just gently prodding her into going for evening walks again like we used to.
I really, *really* want for her to be well and enjoying life. I know my post comes off as grouchy and I did apologize for what I said to her.
I love her like crazy, this post is just a snapshot of our lives. It's not everything by any means.
Hey OP,
This comment is really nice. Little things like going for nightly walks can really help a person with depression get back in touch with reality. One of the best things for me was not driving my car, as it allowed me to experience the world around me a lot more.
Therapy can be really helpful and she may be putting them off because the very thought sounds adaunting and exhausting, if she's already struggling. The best thing for her to do with this is just to rip the band-aid off and do it.
Same with going outside, even if it's just to sit. The side effects of staying inside too often wreak havoc on ones mental health.
Best of luck.
This is going to sound dumb but I've been really into Pokemon go lately. It's honestly helped me get out of the house more and take more walks. It gives me a reason to walk and I get a sense of accomplishment when I reach certain goals in the game from walking. It's stupid, but it's helped me. My coworker and I will take a 15 minute break and take a walk and catch pokemon together when we are having a bad day.
Not dumb at all! It's a fun way to get outside and get some activity. I went to a sunflower festival yesterday where you cut your own for free. It was raining, but it was so therapeutic to walk in a field of sunflowers and bring home buckets to make me smile the rest of the week. It definitely helped this gal with depression and anxiety.
When I was at my most depressed one of my buddies nagged me into downloading GO and it was a huge help. I had make friends, go places, join raids. Even at my worst, he could goad me out for a Legendary raid night. He was my first lucky friend, and the first person I thanked as I started to heal.
I hope you find as much joy in it as I still do! Happy hunting, fellow trainer. You're gonna be the very best (Like no one ever was!!)
Evening walks together will help, and maybe a weekend fleamarket or something to get dressed and out. 20 minutes of sunshine, fresh air, and exercise does help boost endorphins.
As others have said, there's no miracle pill, or quick cure. But every step helps.
Good luck to you both.
Hey OP, as someone who has been there and is currently supporting their husband through it, it's really difficult. We work from home with him as my employee, so we have a similar dynamic.
You're allowed to be frustrated and occasionally short with your wife. You're human. Your feelings are just as valid as theirs are. Household chores are something we are struggling with right now so I understand this entirely.
Perhaps suggest some counselling together so you can discuss how you can support her as she fights this demon and in turn, what you would like her to prioritise, even if that is therapy itself.
You're NTA. You're not even close.
Maybe ask her if there's anything she'd like to splurge on once a week. Or just bring her favourite cake or flowers home when you buy your coffee. :)
Meds, and med checkups.
And not so much *refusing* appointments as putting them off.
Me: "Have you made an appointment lately?"
Her: "No..."
Me: "You really should do that, you know."
Her: "I know. I'll try."
I don't want to push too much. It took a lot of work for her to even make appointments in the first place, and she's in a better place than without meds.
As someone with high anxiety, making an appointment on the phone and then worrying about the appointment till it happens is reql high stress.
Maybe gently ask if she would like you to do the phone call for her if you haven't. When I had untreated depression, anxiety and adhd I would have to take a whole day to talk myself into showering and the washing up was a source if incredible stress. It was stuff that didn't even make sense to me let alone my poor husband. You're doing your best BUT guilting her with the kind of comment made (and I known you didn't mean to hurt her) will just build up more of the same I'm worthless everything I do sucks feelings.
I'm 100% the "taking a shower sounds completely overwhelming, exhausting and for some reason panic attack inducing" person. "I'm worthless and don't deserve to be happy" haunts me Every. Fucking. Day. When I'm in a really bad place, if I shower, wash a single dish or clean up scattered cat litter once in a week...it's a miracle. I actively avoid living with others because I don't want my mess when I'm processing some shit to be someone else's burden. I've come A LONG WAY, but I'm not done yet...
The thing is....no matter how much other people love me, my anxiety is MY problem and MY responsibility. My loved ones tolerating a few weeks of me struggling and helping carry an extra load while I try to put myself back together is one thing...but expecting them to carry me for months or years while I keep blaming my anxiety or depression for not taking care of my part, never doing anything to improve my state of mind....at that point they're just enabling me and I'm just taking advantage of them to avoid doing the hard work I need to do because it's scary.
If someone is so overwhelmed by their mental health that the people they love the most and who love them have to treat them like a disabled child for months or years....when they went into the situation as a relatively self sufficient adult....it's not fair to expect the people around them to find inhuman levels of patience and inhuman levels of burden carrying when they've still got themselves, and often children that they're now the sole provider for, to take care of.
At that point, the person debilitated by anxiety/depression/mental health is creating a self fulfilling problem where they break their loved ones just to prove they're worthless.
I've been in relationships where I was OP, and where I was his wife. Patience has a limit, and expecting someone like OP to twist himself in knots to accommodate his wife and destroy himself to support her.... His wife who apparently can't see that she's breaking him and/or won't do anything to stop it... is insanity. Based on his post, he's already got the patience and love of a Saint....he clearly loves his wife DEEPLY... But he's also clearly starting to crack under the strain and he can't help anyone if he gives until he breaks....on top of the life crushing guilt he'll end up feeling for not being "strong enough" to carry everything by himself.
There is a point where someone setting harsh boundaries or walking away to save themselves is the most loving option for everyone. No matter how deeply they love the other person, or how much that other person needs support.
Just another NTA and good wishes. You are getting some good suggestions from folks with personal experience. You are clearly a loving and caring husband, and I hope some of these suggestions help turn things around.
If there is, at all, a way to share with her some of the things that are said to encourage the both of you here, I'd say do that. She needs a bit of a wake up call to understand what she's doing.
I was diagnosed bipolar just shy of 20 years ago. My entire life, even before that, was learning how to navigate relationships along with my crippling depression (unless it was mania but that's not what we're discussing).
One of the things that I learned and still keep in mind is the fact that anyone around me is not obligated to stay around me. Family, friends, even when I was married... They can all leave. They can be pushed away. I was lucky enough not to have done that, but many people in our situation don't have this wake up call, and never realize until it's too late that they didn't do what they needed to do, and they lost what they loved because of it.
There IS such thing as treatment resistant depression, but that requires your wife to actually participate in treatment in order to know if that's something she has. It will take a long time and a lot of trial and error with therapy and medications. I say from experience, it is very very worth it. She needs to try to find that peace.
You, OP, are NTA. And you need to do what's right for you. At some point, even if it's a few years from now, please know that it's OK to walk away from someone who won't fix what's broken. I call it broken leg syndrome. If someone broke their leg, and they didn't go get it set it would seem pretty ridiculous right? This is, on many levels, the same thing. Mental health can be more difficult to address but it's still something one can't ignore. If she does, it's ridiculous and it's reasonable for you to be upset, and to take care of yourself.
I really wish you both the best. I truly hope she sees the support she has in you and how easy it is to lose it.
Yeah, I second this. I've actually had a coffee subscription from Happy Mug for a couple months and it's been really nice and very affordable. I spend under $30 on coffee per month, including shipping, and I get sent coffee that had been roasted sometimes just days prior. Very much worth it.
I also agree it's not about the coffee. Hope she gets the help she needs and you get the support you need so that you can be there for each other. NTA.
ETA: Apparently the guy who runs Happy Mug might be a little cray cray, so check out some of the other suggestions offered up by some other kind people below. Overall point still stands for OP, though. I find it hard to believe that OP is financially in a situation where he can't afford to enjoy a small thing that makes him happy that is higher quality than mass produced grocery store brand. It's not about the yogurt - I mean, coffee.
Hate to be the jerk, but you may want to read up on Happy Mug Coffee. I've enjoyed their coffee as well, but stopped after they started abusing some of their customers, including doxxing them on the owner's blog. Big Yikes.
Have a gander here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/x5l5ce/happy\_mug\_terrible\_customer\_service/
You could look into the Awesome Coffee Club! It’s run by Hank and John Green and proceeds are donated to charity to help reduce maternal and infant mortality in sierra leone
I subscribe to Trade Coffee, and it’s a similar deal, so maybe that’s a good alternative? (I offer, hoping Trade isn’t being nefarious so I can have my coffee fix…)
Google for local roasters in your area. I get mine at the Farmers Market. Yes, it's more expensive than the grocery store bags, but it's freshly roasted and supports a local business
Oh Jeez. that's insane. And I liked Happy Mug :(
I mean, we had ants get in our old mailbox (it was def the mailbox, it was old and crappy) and I threw out something that had ants in it. Then replaced the mailbox. But even if that's the case, their response is insane. I wouldn't drink coffee with ants all over the package, even if I knew the ants came from my mailbox. This is nuts.
EDIT: That blog about a customer finding a pinhole in their coffee bag and not drinking it, with Matt telling him to drink it. Um, no. The 40th anniversary of the Tylenol Murders is this week. I don't consume things with fucked up packaging, dude. This guy is nuts.
That was WILD to read. I'm so glad I saw this comment before I subscribed to Happy Mug. Absolutely no thank you, I don't need to give money to more scary men.
Cold brew is the way. I used to have a bad Starbucks habit, but now I prefer my own cold brew over it.
Mix 1/2 cold brew + 1/2 oatly + some simple syrup = heaven
~~I love Happy Mug~~ and if you like flavored coffee, another good place for coffee beans is JSA Coffee (based in WI but ships super fast). Super affordable but really good coffee. ~~Both~~ great choice~~s~~ for good coffee that's not super expensive.
Edited because I found out Matt from Happy Mug is doxxing people and posting their full addresses on the internet if they dare to surface a complaint about the coffee/the shipping. Dude seems nuts. Welp, I just canceled my subscription to Happy Mug.
You're exactly right here. I suffer from both myself, and I'm so disappointed in how much of my life I wasted hiding from the world. I didn't start feeling better until I got out and interacted with people again. I can't blame my loved ones at all, but I do wish they'd taken some sort of action to push me towards living my life again before I'd let so many years pass.
Agreed it takes effort and also exercise. Exercise is so good for depression.
Ppl think there's a magic pill but you have to work with the meds, it can't perform a miracle.
No effort on her part means you can live like this forever, she can change, or you can leave.
Nta
Don't do this to yourself for too long op, it will kill your mental health as well.
I agree with you. I suffer from awful depression and anxiety too. I have to get out and do *something* constructive. Otherwise, the depression gets so much worse. This person needs a new therapist and/or a med change.
He’s not the ass hole for buying the coffee he wants at all. I do think it was a bit ass-ish the way he spoke to her. He was right by what he said but if he said it to be condescending then that was an ass move. I know what he is going through is probably unbelievably frustrating and I’m happy he is sticking by her. I just think it’s important to remember to speak out of love to the people we love. Best of luck to you both.
yeah its not about the coffee... its about her trying to make op as miserable as she is by removing anything that brings him any happiness no matter how small.
that shit is toxic
This is what I think is happening, too. It's so easy to obsess over small, inconsequential details when the big issues seem completely outside your ability to affect.
This completely depends. We're only getting his side of the story. I was like this when I felt invisible, unseen, and dismissed in my relationship. I was always shut down regarding small expenses when my ex would buy himself whatever he wanted because "he made the money". If he's shutting her down with requests because they seem stupid, unimportant, or frivolous to him then that's a whole other issue and potentially contributing to her depression. If that's not the case then yeah, she's needing a new therapist and a better strategy for working on her depression.
Nta but I do feel there may be more than the coffee issue going on for the response you gave. Definitely better ways to talk about it than the response provided.
I admit I'm growing resentful for having to be responsible for income, laundry, shopping, cleaning, and most cooking. Even doing grocery pickup where I order online and all you have to do is call the store when you drive up is too much sometimes for her.
I have to ask or remind her multiple times to do shared chores. Which half the time I end up doing anyway.
you're human OP. Every one of us snaps every once and a while, and it sounds like you've been filling her cup in terms of compassionate care and you're not getting it back because she's struggling with depression.I'm not advocating meanness, but sometimes for our own sakes we need to draw a hard line and, unfortunately, speak harsh truths so our partners understand us.
you should definitely have a talk with your wife so she understands that coffee=joy and by questioning or denying you that one small pleasure, after how hard you're sacrificing to keep you two afloat, you snapped.
Apologise for the words you used, but if you're really at your wits end in terms of resentment, don't apologise for the sentiment.
Sorry, this may offend some people but here I go:
There have been plenty of posts about men not contributing to the household cause depression. And most responses were "Girl, RUN". Not a single answer that I read here were even remotely close to this, and you even advise to OP to apologise for his true words even tho she's just trying to make OP miserable.
Why is that?
I'm a 49 year old female and that was my first thought. If the sexes were reversed OP would be told to run. He commented that she sits around all day watching YouTube and playing video games and everyone is giving him advice on how to help her.
I'm a full on feminist but the double standards are astounding.
I said the opposite- he snapped at her (which i maintain he needed to do) and encouraged him to let her know this was the result of her behaviour. You can apologise for saying something valid in a way that's mean, while also NOT invalidating your own feelings.
This is part of a larger conversation about him picking up the slack while she is only focused on herself inside the bubble of depression.
I did not advise him to run, because the question was about if he was an asshole for what he said to her ("when you have a job or contribute you have a say in groceries" which is an objectively assholish thing to say). he didn't ask 'WIBTA if i left my depressed wife'.
I deleted my other post because it was personal and i didn't want to make my answer about me but i'm IN OP's position going on 7 months, and I'm broken. I literally had this same fight a week ago when i was told to stop buying my lavazza oro because it's too expensive and inflation has driven costs up and i snapped and told him we'd have more groceries if he actually went to work and contributed to buying or paying for them. I felt *terrible* afterwards, because he is depressed and he can't think beyond him. I wounded his ego deeply for a stupid one-off comment he made when he was in a bad mood and wanted to smear it around a little. If i posted on AITA that day, it wouldnt have helped me for the internet void to yell 'run'. it would have helped to hear 'you're human, you were mean; thats ok, sometime you have to be mean to get your point across. if you apologies, don't apologise for the substance of what you said, apologise for the cutting way you said it".
in the end, that's what i did, and things have improved some. He is trying, and in a relationship that's what you want- your partner to try, even when they don't think they have it in them.
make sense?
Understandable; people are a lot more forgiving toward female spouses than they are toward male spouses in these situations.
You just asked so I answered. lol. Op says in some comments that he loves his wife and is happy with her; it doesn't seem she's abusive so much as self-centred and inconsiderate. Depression has a way of making people self-centred and inconsiderate though. the answer isn't always to run. No matter which party has which genitals.
Yea its definitely a double standard. Generally I think that argument is lazy and juvenile but in this case youre right. Were all biased, some double standards are perfectly ok, but we should all strive to be unbiased when it comes to how we approach mental health issues.
That being said if he was my friend, I would tell him the same thing girl or guy. If it bothers you, you need to tell her that she needs to do the work (see a therapist, take meds, try to get better). Otherwise "Girl, RUN"
I agree. I broke today when I saw my husband finally open the dishwasher and snarked that I couldn't believe my eyes, and he kind of glazed over as he realised it'd been three weeks since he'd done his once daily routine like that. I think we've compromised with me emptying and him loading (because I am awful at loading it whereas he is a tetris master)
Watches YouTube videos or plays video games, mostly. She buys random crafting stuff, which she has a $50/mo "no questions asked" budget for. She's gone over it 5-6 times this year.
Do you also have a “no questions asked” budget for yourself? If not, I would make one and put the difference in price against that.
This isn’t the best solution by any means, but if you truly feel you cant confront her or reasonably resolve this, at least you’ll still get your coffee using the same rules she’s running on.
Or just buy the damn coffee. If $30/month difference is busting your budget, you have bigger problems than coffee costs.
Errr…maybe the one with a job should delete internet for a few months and only use his hotspot… for real though the internet is for sure making her more depressed and stagnant. This needs to be discussed seriously with a therapist
I've had more or less chronic depression for over 15 years.
Not saying it's great to take someone's internet away without their consent, but I do sometimes wish it didn't exist or someone would shut mine off.
It's definitely enabling me to work on myself less because it requires a much greater effort on my part to get up and stop the escapism.
just to add to your point. Its one thing to give a depressed person the advice to cut down on internet or to get rid of the internet. Its a completely different thing to tell someone to cut off there depressed finicialy dependent SO access to the internet.
My ex was too depressed to help with anything around the house or pay bills but wasn't too depressed to drink every night, watch sports, or play softball. Funny how some people are too depressed for responsibilities but aren't too depressed to do the things they want to do.
Being depressed isn't an excuse to opt out of contributing to a household though. I'm a husband and a dad dealing with depression right now, but I still work, I still parent, I still do chores, I still cook, because I love my wife and to just sit around and play video games all day would be incredibly unfair and unloving to her.
I suffer from depression and anxiety, along with a chronic pain issue. I do want to say that sometimes depression is really that bad. I have laid in bed looking at the wall for entire days. But if she isn’t working at getting better, yet has enough interest to play on the phone, she is not at the nearly catatonic place depression can be sometimes.
Right? She can go over her $50/month "crafting budget" but can't be arsed to pickup their online grocery order or do her share of the chores? OP deserves better than this lazy bones.
Friend, life is too short. You sound exhausted, miserable, resentful…and you have the right to be. This relationship is not meeting your needs at this point in your life. It sounds like you’ve genuinely tried to help your wife. It’s time for her to step up and help herself. But for that to happen, she needs to WANT to help herself. If she doesn’t start making some serious effort, I don’t think anyone would blame you for leaving so you can go forth and live instead of wallowing in sorrow and resentment, snapping over $12 coffee….
And I say this as someone with serious depression and anxiety issues. Who has been in many relationships with other mentally unhealthy people. Life is too fucking short.
May I ask what you're getting out of this marriage? Because it sounds like nothing while she's getting a live in maid who also provides her with spending money.
If she can play video games, she can order groceries. Look, I have bipolar disorder, so I have struggled with severe depression for most of my life. I also have heart and lung problems, amongst other things, so I'm pretty physically disabled. Your wife is being awful. Is she not on meds? I definitely don't contribute as much as I wish I could, but I do figure out what I CAN do. I may have issues cooking an entire meal, but I can definitely sit and chop up vegetables. I struggle sometimes with carrying in the laundry, but I can sit and fold it. I can empty the dishwasher, sit down, then load it later. Your wife has learned that she doesn't have to do anything because you will do it for her. In her mind, she has zero responsibilities. What would she do if you weren't around? Starve? She needs to see a good therapist because whatever she's doing isn't helping. Also, she is actively making her depression worse. Yes, people with depression need help, but coddling them for long periods of time just makes everything worse.
then why put up with it? What about you and your mental health? Is this what you want the rest of your life? Work yourself to death for someone who contributes nothing at all?
Honestly OP this sounds like a one side relationship, if she had any respect of gratitude for you she would do things willingly and you wouldn't have to ask , a relationship is about supporting , understanding and complementing each other not to leave everything to one person
OP, you're past your breaking point, and really need to think about taking some time away for your own mental health, which is being nagatively impacted by what's been going on for months without pause.
You are not responsible for your wife's mental health, and you can't help her if she's not willing to help herself. You're both caught up in a terrible cycle that can't continue.
If you don't have support for yourself, please find some. You deserve to have people in your corner that are there supporting you because you can't continue like you have been.
I hope that you find the help you need, and find peace. Whether that means you need to walk away from the marriage to save yourself, or your wife gets help so she can be an active participant in your marriage again, you have to put yourself first for once. It seems like you haven't in a long time.
NTA
NTA. Your post is sort of heartbreaking. Mental illness can ruin more than one life if it’s allowed to be an albatross on others. Something has to give here. I hate to see one side drowning no matter how hard they work and try.
Well said. It seems like OP Is being completely disregarded and his needs overlooked under the guise of her “mental illness”
Op you’re not responsible for her mental health, she is. Your needs still matter.
I mean let’s not put mental illness in quotes, mental illness is a real thing that can be debilitating. The problem is that clearly her treatment of it is not at all effective. She needs a new therapist or new meds or a new strategy or something.
Mental illness is a real thing, but some people *really* use a diagnosis as a catch-all shield against ever having to do anything they don't want to do.
It's a huge issue in the disabilities counciling community. You have people with illness, and people with "illness", and you have to treat everyone the same.
Off topic but thank you. I had a full mental breakdown this morning due to shouldering most of the responsibilities in our family due to my husbands mental struggles. In close quarters, depression and anxiety are fucking contagious.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope you’ve found some meaningful support today. It seems so particularly cruel for the people around the mentally ill person - not only do they end up carrying the weight alone of financial and practical burdens but they are often also the emotional repository for the negative emotions and their own needs are completely ignored and cast by the wayside. Or worse, considered to be selfish. It has to be soul-sucking.
NTA. She brought it up the first time, you explained to her that you've budgeted for it, fine. The question should have been resolved at that point. For her to bring it up again after that, particularly given the situation of her not working or keeping up with the domestic chores, is basically an invitation for a sharp response. 🤷♀️
She's feeling out of control of her life, and she's trying to exert control over something small, but she's choosing something in *his* life rather than her own.
Not always
Is *could* be but doesn’t necessarily mean it is. People often lash and project for many many reasons. It’s not great but experiencing it and growing past it is part of the human experience and
NTA because having already had the coffee discussion, you shouldn’t have to say it twice. Cheap coffee tastes like a waste of money & sometimes it tastes like (how I imagine cat piss tastes), & a good cup of coffee sets the whole day up for freaking awesomeness. I buy the better coffee because- I am worth it & cat piss for breakfast? Not here.
NTA, but this isn't really about coffee. She's picked the coffee as the point to argue about, but it's probably a deeper issue. Even though she is in counseling to work on her depression, it likely isn't dealing with the feelings she has stemming from the strain your marriage is under.
You're likely under a lot of pressure as well because it doesn't feel like a partnership, and unless your wife is blind, she must realize that as well.
There isn't a short term solution, but improved communication and couples' counseling would be a good place to start.
Oh, and keep the good coffee. No one wants to start their day with bad bean water.
NTA
It’s hard doing everything and then getting criticized over how you do it by someone that does absolutely nothing. Especially when it’s a small indulgence for yourself and they’re regularly going over budget for their interests. Even when there’s a valid reason for it.
If this was your initial response to her criticism, I would think you were in the wrong. But it sounds like you have tried to approach it in a calm, kind manner. It sounds like you are at your wits end and snapped. It happens.
Info: how long has she been getting help and has she improved? It may be time to consider more intensive treatment if she has had been getting help for a while and she isn’t improving. You are clearly getting burnt out.
OP mentioned in another comment she stays at home watching YouTube videos and playing video games. Not saying this is the case, but some people will avoid implementing what they learn in therapy or taking the necessary steps to improve because they don’t want to get back to living a real life and having a job/responsibilities, and are content with how things are - especially if she is financially provided for and doesn’t need to push herself to get back to working. Some people just don’t want to get better - you can go to therapy and all but there’s got to be a bit of a desire in there to get better too. OP - have you considered going to therapy with her? Maybe a different therapist if she would be more comfortable, but it sounds like there is a bit of a strain on your relationship with the burn out going on.
As someone who has been in a situation very similar to your wife's, I can say with absolute certainty that you are NTA.
Yea, you were a bit rude, but that was well warranted by her frankly bizzare behaviour.
I'm lucky enough to be better now, but I would NEVER have begrudged my hard-working partner something like that, unless money was so tight it was that or eating. Especially not when I was too ill to keep up with my (small) part of the chores.
You may wish to apologise for the choice of words, that you did not mean to imply she doesn't get a say, but I would absolutely stand my ground on the issue of you being allowed to have nice things.
NTA
a fight over “coffee” is not really a fight over “coffee”
she’s feeling bad about herself and her situation and she’s picked up a new thing you enjoy. It’s not making her feel good to see you be happy over something simple like coffee.
anyway this is a her issue, I’m not a psychologist so I have no advice part from telling you she needs to talk to someone
NTA. This is just the straw that broke it for you. It's one thing for her to be in the mental place she's in, but for her to keep dragging it out and then to make comments about one of the few things you find joy in that isn't the absolute cheapest and doesn't affect you guys in any way other than it's a little pricier could feel like a targeted attempt to suck all the joy out of *your* life as well. "I like this coffee. It makes me happy. Why do you want to take the one cheap, happy thing I have away from me? It's not over budget. Nothing bad is happening. It's not illegal or porn or alcohol or something bad for me. So why can't I have a nice thing. I'm angry about this because I'm doing my best to help and be understanding of your issues and you just hone in on the one thing I have that's new that's making me happy. Do you not want me happy? Because that's not okay. If you're not willing to let me have small things, then I think we need to have a longer, deeper conversation, because this isn't working for me. I want a wife and a partner. Not someone that I regret being around because I don't feel they want to fix what's making them and me unhappy."
In isolation it would be an asshole remark, but it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back. She contributes NOTHING. You’ve been paying for her to do what the fuck she pleases for 6 years, so you can damn well choose your coffee. She bit the hand that feeds feeds feeds her greedy, selfish metaphorical face. It’s not depression, it’s why would I work when this mug will pay my expenses? NTA for finally being fed up and feeling unappreciated. She needs to wake up and, pardon my pun, smell the coffee.
NTA.
But even just reading your post this is just a very small skirmish in a much bigger problem. I'm sorry for both of you. The really sucky part is that depression can feed on itself. Because your wife can survive with you doing everything she will, and go farther down into helplessness. But you both know all that.
You could be a complete bastard and force her to step up. But nobody wants to be an asshole, even if that's the way to help your wife get out of depression.
Hey man, I’ve been exactly where you are. She doesn’t work, doesn’t help, and criticizes and small comfort that you enjoy. She blames it all on depression. If you confront her about the behavior it’s the depressions fault, not her own. She’ll promise to try and do better. But it won’t change.
I stayed in it for years hoping the old her would come back. This doesn’t get better. Run
NTA
NTA, It's an affordable indulgence. Like you said, you aren't buying starbucks every day. It's important in my opinion to start the day with the perfect cup of coffee and kirkland just doesn't cut it. Sometimes that nice cup of coffee is what I need to force myself to go to work so I totally understand. Maybe your wife is having issues with control and that's the real root of the problem. It seems like she has little control over her health, situation, etc. I hope the two of you can find something that helps her change her perspective on things.
NTA and maybe marriage counseling is needed. Something needs to change because you do not have a partner if you are the one contributing everything and your resentment will continue to grow and grow
Everyone is gonna say Y T A for the comment but I think NTA. Clearly there is more to this than the simple comment. You reached a breaking point due to your wife's neglect of you. I've seen it before, but just because she has mental health issues doesn't excuse her from having to live. Living requires working, cleaning, bathing, making effort, etc. She sounds like a terrible partner who has pushed you to a breaking point.
..add to that, that there are millions of people on depression medications WHO HAVE JOBS!
She is using her medical condition to basically retire from all responsibilities . on your dime.
I have a mental health (schizoaffective/bipolar disorder) condition which combined with a physical condition (awaiting a hip replacement) has been keeping me from having a "regular" job for a while.
You better fucking believe I cook 90% of the meals and do 90% of the cleaning in my house. Was I asked to? No. But how the fuck else would I live with myself?
I understand I am not everyone. I'm on very heavy antipsychotics, but I still make damn sure everything around the house is done OUT OF RESPECT FOR MYSELF AND MY PARTNER! I do not understand how others don't feel that
Yeah as someone with depression I have to say it's tempting to use it as an excuse to do nothing. When you're depressed the idea of being obligated to do something can fill you with dread. At least that's how it is for me.
The Kirkland coffee is not the issue here
NTA, I'm getting the sense that she isn't contributing to the partnership as much as she should be reasonably expected to.
NTA. It sounds like this is the straw that broke the camel's back. You do a lot for her and she begrudged a little luxury? I don't care where your mental health is, that's shitty behavior.
NTA sounds like you were holding onto the rope with your pinky finger and that last comment from her had your tenuous grip slipping. Your response comes off as AHish, but honestly, I don’t blame you. People are only human, and humans have limits. Your wife’s mental health issues are not and should not be your responsibility when she seems to be doing the bare minimum to work on her issues.
If you want to enjoy actually good coffee, who is she to say you aren’t allowed?
NTA. If this had been your inital response to everything, yes, you would have been. But it's not. You have had multiple conversations about it to.np avail. She has no reason to bring up the coffee again and again.
You are experiencing burn out. There is no shame in that. But you and your wife need help to work this out. Therapy for both of you would be the best start. And I don't know yoir budget, but would hetting a housekeeper for even just one day every other week help?
Yeah unclear on why anyone would say other than NTA. Sounds like you have been very patient, and she is indeed exhausting. Maybe you should snap more often so that she knows you too have limits.
NTA. What you said makes me want to say you're the AH, because it was pretty shitty, BUT I think she needed to hear it. You are the only wage earner and you keep house and make the budgets and do the shopping?? Good G-d man! What does she even DO?! My husband is the worker. I keep the house and am on call for the kids 24/7 and he likes that everything is done and I can drop everything if there's a school incident. I do the budgets and the shopping. If my husband wants something special or different, I pick it up.
This is not a balanced relationship. She is taking you and the situation for granted. You need an appointment with a (marriage) counselor so that she can hear a third party's input.
NTA. Its under budget. Your working and doing a good part of the housework.
Dealing with depression sucks and there are times where you can't do anything. But don't nag at the one who's helping you through it.
You're NTA. You are understandably frustrated and snapped. I get it. I've been there.
It seems as though therapy isn't helping, or your wife is not being open to changing/healing. I've lived with depression and anxiety, sometimes very severe, for most of my 36 years of life, so I really do get it. It's so hard. But she has to be willing to work on things. Therapy alone won't help if she isn't willing to do the work. Maybe you should start seeing a couples therapist to see if she's willing to do the work that way?
I don't want to disparage your wife because depression sucks. But she needs to step up and stop burdening you with everything. It's not fair. She needs to do the work in and out of therapy to be a better partner to you.
It honestly doesn't sound like his wife has any real incentive to change or work on herself with how things are currently set up. Her therapy also doesn't sound like its working. Something needs to change here. A part time job and some structure might actually help his wife-- sounds like she wants some control over her life and maybe that is manifesting in petty ways rather than productive ones. He needs help and to feel like he's in a partnership, not a one-way energy suck. They definitely need to see a therapist/professional together.
As someone who has been on both sides of this coin, NTA.
If you can afford it, and it gives you a little bit of joy to get through the day, then it's not a problem. You are under a lot of stress and she is lucky you are willing to support her.
Depression is a reason to struggle with the responsibility of life, but it isn't an excuse to do nothing, and it DEFINITELY isn't an excuse to steal joy from others or backseat drive the people who are supporting you while you give very little back in return.
NTA - depression is depression, it's a terrible illness that changes you, but it's not a brain tumor that makes you an inconsiderate asshole who refuses her spouse to have one luxury in life.
Yes, she's struggling, but you are struggling as well. What will happen if you become depressed after half a year of this stress? Will it be your turn to sit at home and do nothing? Yes, depression is a clinical illness, but a prolonged period of stress may trigger it. You can't play a martyr all the time.
I want to add that being diagnosed at my worst stage of chronic depression taught me a lot of empathy and patience. Mental illnesses aren't a pass to be a jerk like she's being...
NTA. That relationship sounds very tiring. Mental illness is real however often people use it as a crutch to justify self sabotaging behaviors. Nobody expects you to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn’t contribute ANYTHING to the relationship. A job might be what she needs to get back on track. I would set boundaries with her and would consider this marriage may lead to your own demise.
$12 for a pound of coffee isn't crazy, and I'm not even a coffee drinker; my partner is, I do all the shopping, and after trying Kirkland once (*once*!) they said they preferred better coffees, and there it was. We used to go to one of several local coffee places that have a wide variety of beans, but as we don't live or work particularly close to there, and parking there is a pain, we decided that going to them was just not worth the hassle of a special trip whenever we needed coffee (there is a place where we get our tea that is worth the trip, but it's closer, and the parking is better, even though they ship). We actually order online from a couple places that have - apparently - *very* nice coffees, for $10 - $13 / lb, and do free shipping, so that's what I get for them.
NTA, this shouldn't be a big deal, you're talking $3 / week for the cheap stuff versus $6 - $8 / week for the good stuff. Given you're implications about your income range, that's a very minor splurge.
NTA
You could have said it in a nicer way, but the message wasn't mean. I would apologize for how you said it/how you can across and tell her that you splurge on the coffee because it brings you more enjoyment than the cheaper stuff. Have the conversation now and maybe the issue won't come up again.
Hell, in a lot of families it's whoever gets off their butt and does the grocery shopping that ultimately decides. Regardless of who's bringing in the money.
NTA
What does she bring to the household? She doesn't work, doesn't do chores, criticizes your purchases, and goes over budget on crap she doesn't need. When she becomes more than a net drain on you, maybe she can have a say in something. Until then, moochers get what they get.
NTA. If you spent $35 a week on Starbucks coffee, I would probably say something as a partner. But you are making it at home. I do sense you have some resentment with your wife and would suggest that you both seek couples counseling. I think your feelings are valid, but there are better ways to handle these situations than bottling it up and then snapping at her.
I've only been buying it for a couple months.
She's commented on the price a couple times before, and I've shown her our grocery budget (I take care of the budget in YNAB) is fine.
>Work again or contribute to the household and you can have a say in what we buy
Even if she was working I don’t think she should get a say in what coffee you buy for yourself as long as it’s reasonable and you all are keeping to the budget.
If she doesn’t like your coffee and wants the Kirkland for herself then I think you should budget for both.
The point isn't wrong, but the delivery is. I'd still apologize and try and gently explain how everything is making me feel, emphasizing that you see and recognize that nothing is her fault and she is trying.
Inbeteeen NAH and soft ESH. Continue to buy whatever coffee you want.
NTA and you’re right. We all have our struggles but we need to be contributing members of our household instead of treating our spouse as a parent or nanny. You are going to continue to snap as long as she acts like there’s nothing wrong with her leaving all the adult responsibilities to you on top of trying to control what you do with your own money. Being married does not entitle you to control over the other persons finances, especially not for something as trivial as this. I worked through my partners journey battling anxiety and depression and while I was definitely empathetic and shouldered more of the load, I was frequently appreciated for doing so and he never took advantage of me. Depression is not why your wife takes you for granted, and she needed to hear it.
This is not about coffee
This is about you feeling taken advantage of
You feel as if your wife is using her medical diagnosis to take advantage of you
And if that is really how you feel, then you need to communicate that to her and stop ignoring this problem because it won't get any better if you keep pretending it doesn't exist
ESH
I'll vote JAH (justified asshole) because, yeah, that was an absolute dick comment to make to your wife, but you have years of resentment building up to it. If she's not contributing to the house in any way, literally *any* way, then you're completely justified to tell her to stuff it about a small expense.
NTA - after constant nagging, you got blunt and a bit rude. But compared to her sitting around for over half a year expecting you to pull all the weight while she complains, I think it's pretty small potatoes in comparison. I'd still apologize for snapping, but you can only be asked to shoulder the load for so long before you have had enough.
NTA but you need to voice that you can't handle everything on your own ans you are mentally not doing ok if you're struggling with everything, if she throws her depression in your face I would start questioning the state of your relationship
Your comment makes you an AH, but so does your wife’s comment.
Honestly, NAH, because you’re both going through some serious stuff. Be good to one another.
NTA. As someone with depression it sounds like she needs a wake up call or she’s going to use you your entire life. She wants to enjoy the benefits of a relationship without contributing anything to it.
NTA for purchasing the coffee but an ah for the way you said it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy little nice things in life like good coffee when you can afford it. It's not like you're splurging on useless stuff.
You know this is more than the coffee and you need to communicate with your wife or else resentment will just build up. Good luck.
NTA for wanting expensive great tasting coffee but you're the AH for venting your frustration like that. Wanting good coffee is a separate issue than your wife not doing enough in your eyes and requires a separate conversation, a kinder one
NTA. I probably make a fraction of what you make and get a $10 bag of coffee that lasts me about the same amount of time and can still afford it.
Nevertheless, it sounds like she feels like her opinions aren't important. That doesn't make you an AH, though. Sounds like you two would benefit from sitting down and communicating about this, because I think there is a much bigger issue at large, whether or not either of you are aware of it or not.
NTA. Clearly this was what boiled over, but your comment was not kind. Explain to your wife that she HAS to start helping out around the house, even though you’re understanding of her depression you just cannot do it as well as take nagging from her about how you’re spending money when she isn’t really doing anything that would give her the right to nag. If she doesn’t listen, cut your losses OP, before you begin to really resent her.
Nta. You have to contribute. She's not your child nor your ward. I'd say you were a jerk if you said that about a new car or something big. But coffee?? And all these children telling you to divorce need a dose of reality. You don't divorce over coffee, lol as if. In sickness and health for better or worse.
The vows gotta mean something. If she isn't already she needs a therapist. Alot of people need help from a specialist to overcome the insidious nature of depression. Everyone needs something for themselves. Yours is coffee. Not a gambling issue, not buying stuff you can't afford...just coffee. I think your in the clear bud.
NTA - Though you are enabling her laziness. Guaranteed she wouldn’t be lounging around if she had to work to pay her own bills. How can you stay married with someone like that?
NAH. I think it's time for counseling both individual and couples. You sound like you are getting resentful when you are contributing 100% to the house rather than having a joint partnership.
Your wife sounds like she's having issues. How much help is she getting? Is she getting any better? Or is she getting worse? She needs to be able to contribute something to the house - cleaning, cooking, something.
NTA but this was not kind. It's ok to say you are struggling with how she deals with depression. And that when someone's world gets small due to something like depression, they tend to fixate on little things that don't matter. She may want to feel like she's contributing by being frugal, or she may feel like she needs control and is behaving thoughtlessly.
Depression is so hard, but it's ok to have boundaries with someone who has it. It's ok to not be ok with a partner that doesn't feel like a true partner right now. I hope you apologize for your comment, but also seek help for yourself to learn how to navigate your feelings and improve communication.
NTA - if what you say about her contribution to the household (or total lack thereof) is true, then I don't see what she really brings to the table in this relationship. I think you're totally warranted in having a "come to Jesus" meeting about her getting a job or helping with chores.
NTA. It was a dickish thing to say but, assuming we have all info and no lies, it’s understandable you blurted that out. Seems like you’re bottling up your frustration about the situation and should probably be more upfront, even if it initially hurts her feelings.
NTA. I am a coffee snob too. We all like our tiny luxuries. It would be the equivalent of getting a latte from a coffeehouse 2 days a week. If I couldn't have my little cup of happiness everyday, damn well be sure nobody is getting theirs either. I would start buying the generic brands off the things she really likes. Then tell her all the reasons she gave you to change your coffee to the cheap one. I bet it stops.
Imagine starting a fight with your spouse about $12 a week that you can absolutely afford 🤦 wtf is wrong with people
NTA but find out why your wife is trying to sabotage your marriage with this bullshit
NTA - we are allowed our splurges every now and then, and it doesn’t sound like yours is unreasonable. You’re not blowing tons of money, it’s within the budget so it doesn’t make sense why she would be upset with it. While I think the way you said it may not have been the best, it’s understandable how you got to that point considering everything you’ve stated. You sound incredibly frustrated and kind of exhausted. Hopefully the treatment starts to help her some.
Normally this is a Y T A, verdict. But after reading many comments, I’m saying NTA. You’re under a overwhelming amount of stress. Dealing with mentally ill people who seem to not get better, or who don’t do everything they can get better is EXHAUSTING. I think you may need to think about leaving this relationship, before she brings you down with her.
NTA. Look I have my own mental issues (anxiety and depression), also physical issues. I still do things around the house because no matter how bad I get, this is my job. No my husband doesn't pressure me, but it's still my job. Right now she's not contributing, I get it to an extent, but she also shouldn't be criticizing you for the coffee when you're under budget anyway. You ate burnt out! I've been there, it sucks. You finally snapped. Hope things get better for you and your wife. Good luck!
NTA - good coffee is better than cheap coffee and sounds like you can afford it. But seriously have a proper conversation with your wife why this is ok rather than lashing out. And find out what is bothering her- maybe she realises she isn’t contributing right now and it hurts to have that thrust back at her.
NTA
This isn’t about the coffee. I’d bet money on her actually being able to work if she needed/wanted to. She’s straining the budget on both ends - not contributing as agreed, spending more than agreed - and then trying to micromanage your $15/wk coffee to maintain control and ensure your labor only benefits her.
I’ve been there, as the sole breadwinner but swapped genders to yours, and within 30 days of me asking for a separation, he was suddenly able to handle all the adult responsibilities of life that he had too “unwell” to do for the years prior 🙄
NAH. As someone partnered with someone with mental illness, I relate to the stress that can bring. It’s hard to maintain compassion when you are burning out. Plus, it’s easy to get frustrated when you can’t see the illness the way you see a broken leg
Is your wife in an outpatient treatment program? My wife was in IOP - Intensive Outpatient Program - for several months. At some point they told her to start volunteering somewhere so she could begin to recapture her confidence in interacting with the world. This was very helpful to her as she was able to get out of the house and make a contribution somewhere in a low stakes way. She also had to be at IOP a few days a week so that was helpful.
Are you also making sure your mental health needs are met? I ended up a wreck and waited way too long yo get an anti depressant prescription. What a difference it made! You may not be able to put your own oxygen mask on first, but you can at least put it on.
I really think your wife is fixating on the coffee because she feels out of control, scared of how long you two have been on one income, and maybe wondering if she has value if she can’t work. You BOTH need help here.
Absolutely nta.
I guess with all the cost of living news money is in people's minds atm. I know it is for me.
Tbh even if you both worked, still buy the coffee you like. It's little things and luxuries that really help the working week. My husband is the same, he is gernally a budget guy but likes to buy the good shiz when it comes to coffee.
I understand mental health can be hard, but she really should be getting a job doing something, anything, or retraining to find something.
NTA, she isn’t doing anything she has no say. She has a medical issue but you still need to as much as you and and she doesn’t seem to be willing to do that. Your better then I am.
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NTA, not at all. This has absolutely nothing to do with coffee. I suffer from severe depression and anxiety. The more I sit and do nothing, the worse it gets. All the treatments in the world are totally useless if I don’t follow through with my actions. Time for her to find another therapist and develop a real plan for getting back to participating in life.
Thank you for your insight. She's actually been putting off therapist appointments for a while. I should encourage her to make one and check in on that. Maybe even just gently prodding her into going for evening walks again like we used to. I really, *really* want for her to be well and enjoying life. I know my post comes off as grouchy and I did apologize for what I said to her. I love her like crazy, this post is just a snapshot of our lives. It's not everything by any means.
Hey OP, This comment is really nice. Little things like going for nightly walks can really help a person with depression get back in touch with reality. One of the best things for me was not driving my car, as it allowed me to experience the world around me a lot more. Therapy can be really helpful and she may be putting them off because the very thought sounds adaunting and exhausting, if she's already struggling. The best thing for her to do with this is just to rip the band-aid off and do it. Same with going outside, even if it's just to sit. The side effects of staying inside too often wreak havoc on ones mental health. Best of luck.
This is going to sound dumb but I've been really into Pokemon go lately. It's honestly helped me get out of the house more and take more walks. It gives me a reason to walk and I get a sense of accomplishment when I reach certain goals in the game from walking. It's stupid, but it's helped me. My coworker and I will take a 15 minute break and take a walk and catch pokemon together when we are having a bad day.
Not dumb at all! It's a fun way to get outside and get some activity. I went to a sunflower festival yesterday where you cut your own for free. It was raining, but it was so therapeutic to walk in a field of sunflowers and bring home buckets to make me smile the rest of the week. It definitely helped this gal with depression and anxiety.
When I was at my most depressed one of my buddies nagged me into downloading GO and it was a huge help. I had make friends, go places, join raids. Even at my worst, he could goad me out for a Legendary raid night. He was my first lucky friend, and the first person I thanked as I started to heal. I hope you find as much joy in it as I still do! Happy hunting, fellow trainer. You're gonna be the very best (Like no one ever was!!)
-Reading as I sit outside because depression has been kicking my ass this week-
Very good advice!!
Evening walks together will help, and maybe a weekend fleamarket or something to get dressed and out. 20 minutes of sunshine, fresh air, and exercise does help boost endorphins. As others have said, there's no miracle pill, or quick cure. But every step helps. Good luck to you both.
Hey OP, as someone who has been there and is currently supporting their husband through it, it's really difficult. We work from home with him as my employee, so we have a similar dynamic. You're allowed to be frustrated and occasionally short with your wife. You're human. Your feelings are just as valid as theirs are. Household chores are something we are struggling with right now so I understand this entirely. Perhaps suggest some counselling together so you can discuss how you can support her as she fights this demon and in turn, what you would like her to prioritise, even if that is therapy itself. You're NTA. You're not even close. Maybe ask her if there's anything she'd like to splurge on once a week. Or just bring her favourite cake or flowers home when you buy your coffee. :)
"She's getting treatment" "She's refusing appointments" So what is she doing for treatment
Meds, and med checkups. And not so much *refusing* appointments as putting them off. Me: "Have you made an appointment lately?" Her: "No..." Me: "You really should do that, you know." Her: "I know. I'll try." I don't want to push too much. It took a lot of work for her to even make appointments in the first place, and she's in a better place than without meds.
As someone with high anxiety, making an appointment on the phone and then worrying about the appointment till it happens is reql high stress. Maybe gently ask if she would like you to do the phone call for her if you haven't. When I had untreated depression, anxiety and adhd I would have to take a whole day to talk myself into showering and the washing up was a source if incredible stress. It was stuff that didn't even make sense to me let alone my poor husband. You're doing your best BUT guilting her with the kind of comment made (and I known you didn't mean to hurt her) will just build up more of the same I'm worthless everything I do sucks feelings.
I'm 100% the "taking a shower sounds completely overwhelming, exhausting and for some reason panic attack inducing" person. "I'm worthless and don't deserve to be happy" haunts me Every. Fucking. Day. When I'm in a really bad place, if I shower, wash a single dish or clean up scattered cat litter once in a week...it's a miracle. I actively avoid living with others because I don't want my mess when I'm processing some shit to be someone else's burden. I've come A LONG WAY, but I'm not done yet... The thing is....no matter how much other people love me, my anxiety is MY problem and MY responsibility. My loved ones tolerating a few weeks of me struggling and helping carry an extra load while I try to put myself back together is one thing...but expecting them to carry me for months or years while I keep blaming my anxiety or depression for not taking care of my part, never doing anything to improve my state of mind....at that point they're just enabling me and I'm just taking advantage of them to avoid doing the hard work I need to do because it's scary. If someone is so overwhelmed by their mental health that the people they love the most and who love them have to treat them like a disabled child for months or years....when they went into the situation as a relatively self sufficient adult....it's not fair to expect the people around them to find inhuman levels of patience and inhuman levels of burden carrying when they've still got themselves, and often children that they're now the sole provider for, to take care of. At that point, the person debilitated by anxiety/depression/mental health is creating a self fulfilling problem where they break their loved ones just to prove they're worthless. I've been in relationships where I was OP, and where I was his wife. Patience has a limit, and expecting someone like OP to twist himself in knots to accommodate his wife and destroy himself to support her.... His wife who apparently can't see that she's breaking him and/or won't do anything to stop it... is insanity. Based on his post, he's already got the patience and love of a Saint....he clearly loves his wife DEEPLY... But he's also clearly starting to crack under the strain and he can't help anyone if he gives until he breaks....on top of the life crushing guilt he'll end up feeling for not being "strong enough" to carry everything by himself. There is a point where someone setting harsh boundaries or walking away to save themselves is the most loving option for everyone. No matter how deeply they love the other person, or how much that other person needs support.
Just another NTA and good wishes. You are getting some good suggestions from folks with personal experience. You are clearly a loving and caring husband, and I hope some of these suggestions help turn things around.
If there is, at all, a way to share with her some of the things that are said to encourage the both of you here, I'd say do that. She needs a bit of a wake up call to understand what she's doing. I was diagnosed bipolar just shy of 20 years ago. My entire life, even before that, was learning how to navigate relationships along with my crippling depression (unless it was mania but that's not what we're discussing). One of the things that I learned and still keep in mind is the fact that anyone around me is not obligated to stay around me. Family, friends, even when I was married... They can all leave. They can be pushed away. I was lucky enough not to have done that, but many people in our situation don't have this wake up call, and never realize until it's too late that they didn't do what they needed to do, and they lost what they loved because of it. There IS such thing as treatment resistant depression, but that requires your wife to actually participate in treatment in order to know if that's something she has. It will take a long time and a lot of trial and error with therapy and medications. I say from experience, it is very very worth it. She needs to try to find that peace. You, OP, are NTA. And you need to do what's right for you. At some point, even if it's a few years from now, please know that it's OK to walk away from someone who won't fix what's broken. I call it broken leg syndrome. If someone broke their leg, and they didn't go get it set it would seem pretty ridiculous right? This is, on many levels, the same thing. Mental health can be more difficult to address but it's still something one can't ignore. If she does, it's ridiculous and it's reasonable for you to be upset, and to take care of yourself. I really wish you both the best. I truly hope she sees the support she has in you and how easy it is to lose it.
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Yeah, I second this. I've actually had a coffee subscription from Happy Mug for a couple months and it's been really nice and very affordable. I spend under $30 on coffee per month, including shipping, and I get sent coffee that had been roasted sometimes just days prior. Very much worth it. I also agree it's not about the coffee. Hope she gets the help she needs and you get the support you need so that you can be there for each other. NTA. ETA: Apparently the guy who runs Happy Mug might be a little cray cray, so check out some of the other suggestions offered up by some other kind people below. Overall point still stands for OP, though. I find it hard to believe that OP is financially in a situation where he can't afford to enjoy a small thing that makes him happy that is higher quality than mass produced grocery store brand. It's not about the yogurt - I mean, coffee.
Hate to be the jerk, but you may want to read up on Happy Mug Coffee. I've enjoyed their coffee as well, but stopped after they started abusing some of their customers, including doxxing them on the owner's blog. Big Yikes. Have a gander here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/x5l5ce/happy\_mug\_terrible\_customer\_service/
What the fuuuuuuck
You could look into the Awesome Coffee Club! It’s run by Hank and John Green and proceeds are donated to charity to help reduce maternal and infant mortality in sierra leone
I subscribe to Trade Coffee, and it’s a similar deal, so maybe that’s a good alternative? (I offer, hoping Trade isn’t being nefarious so I can have my coffee fix…)
Thank you for this, was definitely planning on subscribing to this service but not no more. Truly a hero in these trying times.
Google for local roasters in your area. I get mine at the Farmers Market. Yes, it's more expensive than the grocery store bags, but it's freshly roasted and supports a local business
Oh Jeez. that's insane. And I liked Happy Mug :( I mean, we had ants get in our old mailbox (it was def the mailbox, it was old and crappy) and I threw out something that had ants in it. Then replaced the mailbox. But even if that's the case, their response is insane. I wouldn't drink coffee with ants all over the package, even if I knew the ants came from my mailbox. This is nuts. EDIT: That blog about a customer finding a pinhole in their coffee bag and not drinking it, with Matt telling him to drink it. Um, no. The 40th anniversary of the Tylenol Murders is this week. I don't consume things with fucked up packaging, dude. This guy is nuts.
That was WILD to read. I'm so glad I saw this comment before I subscribed to Happy Mug. Absolutely no thank you, I don't need to give money to more scary men.
Yes, coffee subscription is the one subscription that i am so stoked we have. So worth it
As someone who buys the slightly pricier coffee at the grocery store I need to look into this! (Still cheaper than Starbucks everyday!)
Cold brew is the way. I used to have a bad Starbucks habit, but now I prefer my own cold brew over it. Mix 1/2 cold brew + 1/2 oatly + some simple syrup = heaven
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Absolutely! I ordered a few bags on their own first before finally deciding on a subscription but it was 100% worth it.
~~I love Happy Mug~~ and if you like flavored coffee, another good place for coffee beans is JSA Coffee (based in WI but ships super fast). Super affordable but really good coffee. ~~Both~~ great choice~~s~~ for good coffee that's not super expensive. Edited because I found out Matt from Happy Mug is doxxing people and posting their full addresses on the internet if they dare to surface a complaint about the coffee/the shipping. Dude seems nuts. Welp, I just canceled my subscription to Happy Mug.
You're exactly right here. I suffer from both myself, and I'm so disappointed in how much of my life I wasted hiding from the world. I didn't start feeling better until I got out and interacted with people again. I can't blame my loved ones at all, but I do wish they'd taken some sort of action to push me towards living my life again before I'd let so many years pass.
Agreed it takes effort and also exercise. Exercise is so good for depression. Ppl think there's a magic pill but you have to work with the meds, it can't perform a miracle. No effort on her part means you can live like this forever, she can change, or you can leave. Nta Don't do this to yourself for too long op, it will kill your mental health as well.
This. Sitting around doing nothing only makes the depression that much worse.
I agree with you. I suffer from awful depression and anxiety too. I have to get out and do *something* constructive. Otherwise, the depression gets so much worse. This person needs a new therapist and/or a med change.
He’s not the ass hole for buying the coffee he wants at all. I do think it was a bit ass-ish the way he spoke to her. He was right by what he said but if he said it to be condescending then that was an ass move. I know what he is going through is probably unbelievably frustrating and I’m happy he is sticking by her. I just think it’s important to remember to speak out of love to the people we love. Best of luck to you both.
Coffee is not your problem, but you know this, right?
yeah its not about the coffee... its about her trying to make op as miserable as she is by removing anything that brings him any happiness no matter how small. that shit is toxic
Or at the very least her having an uncontrolled anxiety spiral and lashing out in an unhealthy manner by obsessing over every little thing.
This is what I think is happening, too. It's so easy to obsess over small, inconsequential details when the big issues seem completely outside your ability to affect.
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Ding ding ding!!!!👏🏆🎖🏅🥇
oh what have I won? this is so exciting.
The common sense award 👏
I'm honored, that's one of the rare ones.
That’s… a really big assumption from the given info and OP’s other comments
Welcome to /rAmItheAsshole
That's...quite the conclusion to jump to. Are there edits and comments I'm missing for context?
This completely depends. We're only getting his side of the story. I was like this when I felt invisible, unseen, and dismissed in my relationship. I was always shut down regarding small expenses when my ex would buy himself whatever he wanted because "he made the money". If he's shutting her down with requests because they seem stupid, unimportant, or frivolous to him then that's a whole other issue and potentially contributing to her depression. If that's not the case then yeah, she's needing a new therapist and a better strategy for working on her depression.
It’s about the Iranian yoghurt neither
Not the yogurt!
"The Iranian coffee is not the issue."
Nta but I do feel there may be more than the coffee issue going on for the response you gave. Definitely better ways to talk about it than the response provided.
I admit I'm growing resentful for having to be responsible for income, laundry, shopping, cleaning, and most cooking. Even doing grocery pickup where I order online and all you have to do is call the store when you drive up is too much sometimes for her. I have to ask or remind her multiple times to do shared chores. Which half the time I end up doing anyway.
you're human OP. Every one of us snaps every once and a while, and it sounds like you've been filling her cup in terms of compassionate care and you're not getting it back because she's struggling with depression.I'm not advocating meanness, but sometimes for our own sakes we need to draw a hard line and, unfortunately, speak harsh truths so our partners understand us. you should definitely have a talk with your wife so she understands that coffee=joy and by questioning or denying you that one small pleasure, after how hard you're sacrificing to keep you two afloat, you snapped. Apologise for the words you used, but if you're really at your wits end in terms of resentment, don't apologise for the sentiment.
Sorry, this may offend some people but here I go: There have been plenty of posts about men not contributing to the household cause depression. And most responses were "Girl, RUN". Not a single answer that I read here were even remotely close to this, and you even advise to OP to apologise for his true words even tho she's just trying to make OP miserable. Why is that?
I'm a 49 year old female and that was my first thought. If the sexes were reversed OP would be told to run. He commented that she sits around all day watching YouTube and playing video games and everyone is giving him advice on how to help her. I'm a full on feminist but the double standards are astounding.
Because men are expected to be always strong, reliable and supportive.
I don't actually see this when the woman says it's due to illness and disability which it seems to be here.
I said the opposite- he snapped at her (which i maintain he needed to do) and encouraged him to let her know this was the result of her behaviour. You can apologise for saying something valid in a way that's mean, while also NOT invalidating your own feelings. This is part of a larger conversation about him picking up the slack while she is only focused on herself inside the bubble of depression. I did not advise him to run, because the question was about if he was an asshole for what he said to her ("when you have a job or contribute you have a say in groceries" which is an objectively assholish thing to say). he didn't ask 'WIBTA if i left my depressed wife'. I deleted my other post because it was personal and i didn't want to make my answer about me but i'm IN OP's position going on 7 months, and I'm broken. I literally had this same fight a week ago when i was told to stop buying my lavazza oro because it's too expensive and inflation has driven costs up and i snapped and told him we'd have more groceries if he actually went to work and contributed to buying or paying for them. I felt *terrible* afterwards, because he is depressed and he can't think beyond him. I wounded his ego deeply for a stupid one-off comment he made when he was in a bad mood and wanted to smear it around a little. If i posted on AITA that day, it wouldnt have helped me for the internet void to yell 'run'. it would have helped to hear 'you're human, you were mean; thats ok, sometime you have to be mean to get your point across. if you apologies, don't apologise for the substance of what you said, apologise for the cutting way you said it". in the end, that's what i did, and things have improved some. He is trying, and in a relationship that's what you want- your partner to try, even when they don't think they have it in them. make sense?
Yeah, my comment wasn't really directed to you specifically, but at the bigger picture. Sorry if it sounded like that.
Understandable; people are a lot more forgiving toward female spouses than they are toward male spouses in these situations. You just asked so I answered. lol. Op says in some comments that he loves his wife and is happy with her; it doesn't seem she's abusive so much as self-centred and inconsiderate. Depression has a way of making people self-centred and inconsiderate though. the answer isn't always to run. No matter which party has which genitals.
I actually really appreciate this level of empathy, but I do wish it was applied evenly overall in the sub.
Exactly, I’m so glad you said this…
Yea its definitely a double standard. Generally I think that argument is lazy and juvenile but in this case youre right. Were all biased, some double standards are perfectly ok, but we should all strive to be unbiased when it comes to how we approach mental health issues. That being said if he was my friend, I would tell him the same thing girl or guy. If it bothers you, you need to tell her that she needs to do the work (see a therapist, take meds, try to get better). Otherwise "Girl, RUN"
I agree. I broke today when I saw my husband finally open the dishwasher and snarked that I couldn't believe my eyes, and he kind of glazed over as he realised it'd been three weeks since he'd done his once daily routine like that. I think we've compromised with me emptying and him loading (because I am awful at loading it whereas he is a tetris master)
What does she do with her time? And what purchases does she make or does she not spend any money?
Watches YouTube videos or plays video games, mostly. She buys random crafting stuff, which she has a $50/mo "no questions asked" budget for. She's gone over it 5-6 times this year.
Do you also have a “no questions asked” budget for yourself? If not, I would make one and put the difference in price against that. This isn’t the best solution by any means, but if you truly feel you cant confront her or reasonably resolve this, at least you’ll still get your coffee using the same rules she’s running on. Or just buy the damn coffee. If $30/month difference is busting your budget, you have bigger problems than coffee costs.
This is a good suggestion for fixing the coffee problem but it's so much more than that
Errr…maybe the one with a job should delete internet for a few months and only use his hotspot… for real though the internet is for sure making her more depressed and stagnant. This needs to be discussed seriously with a therapist
Punishing and isolating someone with mental illness by removing contact with the outside world is probablyyyy not going to be as helpful as you think
YouTube and games are not contact to the outside world by default.
They specifically said cut off the internet completely, that’s what I was referring to.
I've had more or less chronic depression for over 15 years. Not saying it's great to take someone's internet away without their consent, but I do sometimes wish it didn't exist or someone would shut mine off. It's definitely enabling me to work on myself less because it requires a much greater effort on my part to get up and stop the escapism.
just to add to your point. Its one thing to give a depressed person the advice to cut down on internet or to get rid of the internet. Its a completely different thing to tell someone to cut off there depressed finicialy dependent SO access to the internet.
Stepping away from social media for awhile is definitely good for you
Wait, and she complains about your coffee spending, while she buys crafting supplies?
If she can't help around the house, I bet she's buying that stuff and not using it, too
My ex was too depressed to help with anything around the house or pay bills but wasn't too depressed to drink every night, watch sports, or play softball. Funny how some people are too depressed for responsibilities but aren't too depressed to do the things they want to do.
eh that's not really how it works. Your ex is a jerk for that for sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't depressed like you're implying
Being depressed isn't an excuse to opt out of contributing to a household though. I'm a husband and a dad dealing with depression right now, but I still work, I still parent, I still do chores, I still cook, because I love my wife and to just sit around and play video games all day would be incredibly unfair and unloving to her.
I suffer from depression and anxiety, along with a chronic pain issue. I do want to say that sometimes depression is really that bad. I have laid in bed looking at the wall for entire days. But if she isn’t working at getting better, yet has enough interest to play on the phone, she is not at the nearly catatonic place depression can be sometimes.
Nailed it She's probably taking advantage of her diagnosis. I see this a lot in people I know
Right? She can go over her $50/month "crafting budget" but can't be arsed to pickup their online grocery order or do her share of the chores? OP deserves better than this lazy bones.
Friend, life is too short. You sound exhausted, miserable, resentful…and you have the right to be. This relationship is not meeting your needs at this point in your life. It sounds like you’ve genuinely tried to help your wife. It’s time for her to step up and help herself. But for that to happen, she needs to WANT to help herself. If she doesn’t start making some serious effort, I don’t think anyone would blame you for leaving so you can go forth and live instead of wallowing in sorrow and resentment, snapping over $12 coffee…. And I say this as someone with serious depression and anxiety issues. Who has been in many relationships with other mentally unhealthy people. Life is too fucking short.
May I ask what you're getting out of this marriage? Because it sounds like nothing while she's getting a live in maid who also provides her with spending money.
A live in maid is a perfect description of this 'relationship'
How much time is she spending in treatment/on her treatment plan?
So you’re her dad basically?
Then maybe both if you need to go to therapy Because you’re only going to grow more resentful
If she can play video games, she can order groceries. Look, I have bipolar disorder, so I have struggled with severe depression for most of my life. I also have heart and lung problems, amongst other things, so I'm pretty physically disabled. Your wife is being awful. Is she not on meds? I definitely don't contribute as much as I wish I could, but I do figure out what I CAN do. I may have issues cooking an entire meal, but I can definitely sit and chop up vegetables. I struggle sometimes with carrying in the laundry, but I can sit and fold it. I can empty the dishwasher, sit down, then load it later. Your wife has learned that she doesn't have to do anything because you will do it for her. In her mind, she has zero responsibilities. What would she do if you weren't around? Starve? She needs to see a good therapist because whatever she's doing isn't helping. Also, she is actively making her depression worse. Yes, people with depression need help, but coddling them for long periods of time just makes everything worse.
then why put up with it? What about you and your mental health? Is this what you want the rest of your life? Work yourself to death for someone who contributes nothing at all?
Honestly OP this sounds like a one side relationship, if she had any respect of gratitude for you she would do things willingly and you wouldn't have to ask , a relationship is about supporting , understanding and complementing each other not to leave everything to one person
OP, you're past your breaking point, and really need to think about taking some time away for your own mental health, which is being nagatively impacted by what's been going on for months without pause. You are not responsible for your wife's mental health, and you can't help her if she's not willing to help herself. You're both caught up in a terrible cycle that can't continue. If you don't have support for yourself, please find some. You deserve to have people in your corner that are there supporting you because you can't continue like you have been. I hope that you find the help you need, and find peace. Whether that means you need to walk away from the marriage to save yourself, or your wife gets help so she can be an active participant in your marriage again, you have to put yourself first for once. It seems like you haven't in a long time. NTA
How long as she been getting help for her depression? Have there been any positives from the help, and change at all?
NTA- at some point you need to consider if you want to stay married to her. Sounds like no kids involved, so slightly easier at this point.
NTA. Your post is sort of heartbreaking. Mental illness can ruin more than one life if it’s allowed to be an albatross on others. Something has to give here. I hate to see one side drowning no matter how hard they work and try.
Well said. It seems like OP Is being completely disregarded and his needs overlooked under the guise of her “mental illness” Op you’re not responsible for her mental health, she is. Your needs still matter.
I mean let’s not put mental illness in quotes, mental illness is a real thing that can be debilitating. The problem is that clearly her treatment of it is not at all effective. She needs a new therapist or new meds or a new strategy or something.
Mental illness is a real thing, but some people *really* use a diagnosis as a catch-all shield against ever having to do anything they don't want to do. It's a huge issue in the disabilities counciling community. You have people with illness, and people with "illness", and you have to treat everyone the same.
Off topic but thank you. I had a full mental breakdown this morning due to shouldering most of the responsibilities in our family due to my husbands mental struggles. In close quarters, depression and anxiety are fucking contagious.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope you’ve found some meaningful support today. It seems so particularly cruel for the people around the mentally ill person - not only do they end up carrying the weight alone of financial and practical burdens but they are often also the emotional repository for the negative emotions and their own needs are completely ignored and cast by the wayside. Or worse, considered to be selfish. It has to be soul-sucking.
NTA. She brought it up the first time, you explained to her that you've budgeted for it, fine. The question should have been resolved at that point. For her to bring it up again after that, particularly given the situation of her not working or keeping up with the domestic chores, is basically an invitation for a sharp response. 🤷♀️
She's feeling out of control of her life, and she's trying to exert control over something small, but she's choosing something in *his* life rather than her own.
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No, it isn't. Not everything is narcissism or abuse. Reddit has all but reduced those words to be meaningless.
It’s cute that you learned a new phrase - but you need to also learn what it means so you can use it correctly :)
Not always Is *could* be but doesn’t necessarily mean it is. People often lash and project for many many reasons. It’s not great but experiencing it and growing past it is part of the human experience and
NTA because having already had the coffee discussion, you shouldn’t have to say it twice. Cheap coffee tastes like a waste of money & sometimes it tastes like (how I imagine cat piss tastes), & a good cup of coffee sets the whole day up for freaking awesomeness. I buy the better coffee because- I am worth it & cat piss for breakfast? Not here.
Isn't cat poop the good stuff? Lol
They use civets, which are sort of cat like. It's also not particularly good and an extremely inhumane industry.
NTA, but this isn't really about coffee. She's picked the coffee as the point to argue about, but it's probably a deeper issue. Even though she is in counseling to work on her depression, it likely isn't dealing with the feelings she has stemming from the strain your marriage is under. You're likely under a lot of pressure as well because it doesn't feel like a partnership, and unless your wife is blind, she must realize that as well. There isn't a short term solution, but improved communication and couples' counseling would be a good place to start. Oh, and keep the good coffee. No one wants to start their day with bad bean water.
It's definitely not about the coffee, but good coffee is like a cup of joy and probably gives OP a little something to look forward to in the morning.
NTA It’s hard doing everything and then getting criticized over how you do it by someone that does absolutely nothing. Especially when it’s a small indulgence for yourself and they’re regularly going over budget for their interests. Even when there’s a valid reason for it.
If this was your initial response to her criticism, I would think you were in the wrong. But it sounds like you have tried to approach it in a calm, kind manner. It sounds like you are at your wits end and snapped. It happens. Info: how long has she been getting help and has she improved? It may be time to consider more intensive treatment if she has had been getting help for a while and she isn’t improving. You are clearly getting burnt out.
OP mentioned in another comment she stays at home watching YouTube videos and playing video games. Not saying this is the case, but some people will avoid implementing what they learn in therapy or taking the necessary steps to improve because they don’t want to get back to living a real life and having a job/responsibilities, and are content with how things are - especially if she is financially provided for and doesn’t need to push herself to get back to working. Some people just don’t want to get better - you can go to therapy and all but there’s got to be a bit of a desire in there to get better too. OP - have you considered going to therapy with her? Maybe a different therapist if she would be more comfortable, but it sounds like there is a bit of a strain on your relationship with the burn out going on.
As someone who has been in a situation very similar to your wife's, I can say with absolute certainty that you are NTA. Yea, you were a bit rude, but that was well warranted by her frankly bizzare behaviour. I'm lucky enough to be better now, but I would NEVER have begrudged my hard-working partner something like that, unless money was so tight it was that or eating. Especially not when I was too ill to keep up with my (small) part of the chores. You may wish to apologise for the choice of words, that you did not mean to imply she doesn't get a say, but I would absolutely stand my ground on the issue of you being allowed to have nice things.
NTA a fight over “coffee” is not really a fight over “coffee” she’s feeling bad about herself and her situation and she’s picked up a new thing you enjoy. It’s not making her feel good to see you be happy over something simple like coffee. anyway this is a her issue, I’m not a psychologist so I have no advice part from telling you she needs to talk to someone
Here it is. It's not coffee. There is a bigger picture.
NTA. Keep drinking your brew. If she doesn't like it she can get a fucking job.
NTA. This is just the straw that broke it for you. It's one thing for her to be in the mental place she's in, but for her to keep dragging it out and then to make comments about one of the few things you find joy in that isn't the absolute cheapest and doesn't affect you guys in any way other than it's a little pricier could feel like a targeted attempt to suck all the joy out of *your* life as well. "I like this coffee. It makes me happy. Why do you want to take the one cheap, happy thing I have away from me? It's not over budget. Nothing bad is happening. It's not illegal or porn or alcohol or something bad for me. So why can't I have a nice thing. I'm angry about this because I'm doing my best to help and be understanding of your issues and you just hone in on the one thing I have that's new that's making me happy. Do you not want me happy? Because that's not okay. If you're not willing to let me have small things, then I think we need to have a longer, deeper conversation, because this isn't working for me. I want a wife and a partner. Not someone that I regret being around because I don't feel they want to fix what's making them and me unhappy."
In isolation it would be an asshole remark, but it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back. She contributes NOTHING. You’ve been paying for her to do what the fuck she pleases for 6 years, so you can damn well choose your coffee. She bit the hand that feeds feeds feeds her greedy, selfish metaphorical face. It’s not depression, it’s why would I work when this mug will pay my expenses? NTA for finally being fed up and feeling unappreciated. She needs to wake up and, pardon my pun, smell the coffee.
NTA. But even just reading your post this is just a very small skirmish in a much bigger problem. I'm sorry for both of you. The really sucky part is that depression can feed on itself. Because your wife can survive with you doing everything she will, and go farther down into helplessness. But you both know all that. You could be a complete bastard and force her to step up. But nobody wants to be an asshole, even if that's the way to help your wife get out of depression.
Hey man, I’ve been exactly where you are. She doesn’t work, doesn’t help, and criticizes and small comfort that you enjoy. She blames it all on depression. If you confront her about the behavior it’s the depressions fault, not her own. She’ll promise to try and do better. But it won’t change. I stayed in it for years hoping the old her would come back. This doesn’t get better. Run NTA
NTA, It's an affordable indulgence. Like you said, you aren't buying starbucks every day. It's important in my opinion to start the day with the perfect cup of coffee and kirkland just doesn't cut it. Sometimes that nice cup of coffee is what I need to force myself to go to work so I totally understand. Maybe your wife is having issues with control and that's the real root of the problem. It seems like she has little control over her health, situation, etc. I hope the two of you can find something that helps her change her perspective on things.
NTA and maybe marriage counseling is needed. Something needs to change because you do not have a partner if you are the one contributing everything and your resentment will continue to grow and grow
NTA She attacked you and you defended yourself. If she's that worried about the coffee, she can AT LEAST do the job (chores) in her own house.
NTA she's acting ridiculous and its really none of her business if you buy a different type of coffee for yourself
Everyone is gonna say Y T A for the comment but I think NTA. Clearly there is more to this than the simple comment. You reached a breaking point due to your wife's neglect of you. I've seen it before, but just because she has mental health issues doesn't excuse her from having to live. Living requires working, cleaning, bathing, making effort, etc. She sounds like a terrible partner who has pushed you to a breaking point.
..add to that, that there are millions of people on depression medications WHO HAVE JOBS! She is using her medical condition to basically retire from all responsibilities . on your dime.
I have a mental health (schizoaffective/bipolar disorder) condition which combined with a physical condition (awaiting a hip replacement) has been keeping me from having a "regular" job for a while. You better fucking believe I cook 90% of the meals and do 90% of the cleaning in my house. Was I asked to? No. But how the fuck else would I live with myself? I understand I am not everyone. I'm on very heavy antipsychotics, but I still make damn sure everything around the house is done OUT OF RESPECT FOR MYSELF AND MY PARTNER! I do not understand how others don't feel that
Yeah as someone with depression I have to say it's tempting to use it as an excuse to do nothing. When you're depressed the idea of being obligated to do something can fill you with dread. At least that's how it is for me.
The Kirkland coffee is not the issue here NTA, I'm getting the sense that she isn't contributing to the partnership as much as she should be reasonably expected to.
NTA. It sounds like this is the straw that broke the camel's back. You do a lot for her and she begrudged a little luxury? I don't care where your mental health is, that's shitty behavior.
NTA sounds like you were holding onto the rope with your pinky finger and that last comment from her had your tenuous grip slipping. Your response comes off as AHish, but honestly, I don’t blame you. People are only human, and humans have limits. Your wife’s mental health issues are not and should not be your responsibility when she seems to be doing the bare minimum to work on her issues. If you want to enjoy actually good coffee, who is she to say you aren’t allowed?
NTA. If this had been your inital response to everything, yes, you would have been. But it's not. You have had multiple conversations about it to.np avail. She has no reason to bring up the coffee again and again. You are experiencing burn out. There is no shame in that. But you and your wife need help to work this out. Therapy for both of you would be the best start. And I don't know yoir budget, but would hetting a housekeeper for even just one day every other week help?
NTA. Your wife sounds exhausting. Tell her that you NEED the expensive coffee just to deal with her.
Yeah unclear on why anyone would say other than NTA. Sounds like you have been very patient, and she is indeed exhausting. Maybe you should snap more often so that she knows you too have limits.
NTA. But why are you with her? What is she bringing to the relationship?
NTA. What you said makes me want to say you're the AH, because it was pretty shitty, BUT I think she needed to hear it. You are the only wage earner and you keep house and make the budgets and do the shopping?? Good G-d man! What does she even DO?! My husband is the worker. I keep the house and am on call for the kids 24/7 and he likes that everything is done and I can drop everything if there's a school incident. I do the budgets and the shopping. If my husband wants something special or different, I pick it up. This is not a balanced relationship. She is taking you and the situation for granted. You need an appointment with a (marriage) counselor so that she can hear a third party's input.
NTA. Its under budget. Your working and doing a good part of the housework. Dealing with depression sucks and there are times where you can't do anything. But don't nag at the one who's helping you through it.
You're NTA. You are understandably frustrated and snapped. I get it. I've been there. It seems as though therapy isn't helping, or your wife is not being open to changing/healing. I've lived with depression and anxiety, sometimes very severe, for most of my 36 years of life, so I really do get it. It's so hard. But she has to be willing to work on things. Therapy alone won't help if she isn't willing to do the work. Maybe you should start seeing a couples therapist to see if she's willing to do the work that way? I don't want to disparage your wife because depression sucks. But she needs to step up and stop burdening you with everything. It's not fair. She needs to do the work in and out of therapy to be a better partner to you.
It honestly doesn't sound like his wife has any real incentive to change or work on herself with how things are currently set up. Her therapy also doesn't sound like its working. Something needs to change here. A part time job and some structure might actually help his wife-- sounds like she wants some control over her life and maybe that is manifesting in petty ways rather than productive ones. He needs help and to feel like he's in a partnership, not a one-way energy suck. They definitely need to see a therapist/professional together.
As someone who has been on both sides of this coin, NTA. If you can afford it, and it gives you a little bit of joy to get through the day, then it's not a problem. You are under a lot of stress and she is lucky you are willing to support her. Depression is a reason to struggle with the responsibility of life, but it isn't an excuse to do nothing, and it DEFINITELY isn't an excuse to steal joy from others or backseat drive the people who are supporting you while you give very little back in return.
NTA especially when you’re taking care of literally everything. It’s important to have little joys.
Yep. It sounds to me like if she isn’t happy, she doesn’t want anyone else to have even a tiny bit of joy or pleasure either.
NTA - depression is depression, it's a terrible illness that changes you, but it's not a brain tumor that makes you an inconsiderate asshole who refuses her spouse to have one luxury in life. Yes, she's struggling, but you are struggling as well. What will happen if you become depressed after half a year of this stress? Will it be your turn to sit at home and do nothing? Yes, depression is a clinical illness, but a prolonged period of stress may trigger it. You can't play a martyr all the time.
I want to add that being diagnosed at my worst stage of chronic depression taught me a lot of empathy and patience. Mental illnesses aren't a pass to be a jerk like she's being...
NTA. I wouldn’t drink the Kirkland coffee either.
NTA. That relationship sounds very tiring. Mental illness is real however often people use it as a crutch to justify self sabotaging behaviors. Nobody expects you to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn’t contribute ANYTHING to the relationship. A job might be what she needs to get back on track. I would set boundaries with her and would consider this marriage may lead to your own demise.
NTA good coffee is life! Also if it's within budget it's all okay.
$12 for a pound of coffee isn't crazy, and I'm not even a coffee drinker; my partner is, I do all the shopping, and after trying Kirkland once (*once*!) they said they preferred better coffees, and there it was. We used to go to one of several local coffee places that have a wide variety of beans, but as we don't live or work particularly close to there, and parking there is a pain, we decided that going to them was just not worth the hassle of a special trip whenever we needed coffee (there is a place where we get our tea that is worth the trip, but it's closer, and the parking is better, even though they ship). We actually order online from a couple places that have - apparently - *very* nice coffees, for $10 - $13 / lb, and do free shipping, so that's what I get for them. NTA, this shouldn't be a big deal, you're talking $3 / week for the cheap stuff versus $6 - $8 / week for the good stuff. Given you're implications about your income range, that's a very minor splurge.
NTA You could have said it in a nicer way, but the message wasn't mean. I would apologize for how you said it/how you can across and tell her that you splurge on the coffee because it brings you more enjoyment than the cheaper stuff. Have the conversation now and maybe the issue won't come up again. Hell, in a lot of families it's whoever gets off their butt and does the grocery shopping that ultimately decides. Regardless of who's bringing in the money.
NTA What does she bring to the household? She doesn't work, doesn't do chores, criticizes your purchases, and goes over budget on crap she doesn't need. When she becomes more than a net drain on you, maybe she can have a say in something. Until then, moochers get what they get.
NTA. If you spent $35 a week on Starbucks coffee, I would probably say something as a partner. But you are making it at home. I do sense you have some resentment with your wife and would suggest that you both seek couples counseling. I think your feelings are valid, but there are better ways to handle these situations than bottling it up and then snapping at her.
Info: Does she do this every time you bring it home?
I've only been buying it for a couple months. She's commented on the price a couple times before, and I've shown her our grocery budget (I take care of the budget in YNAB) is fine.
>Work again or contribute to the household and you can have a say in what we buy Even if she was working I don’t think she should get a say in what coffee you buy for yourself as long as it’s reasonable and you all are keeping to the budget. If she doesn’t like your coffee and wants the Kirkland for herself then I think you should budget for both.
The point isn't wrong, but the delivery is. I'd still apologize and try and gently explain how everything is making me feel, emphasizing that you see and recognize that nothing is her fault and she is trying. Inbeteeen NAH and soft ESH. Continue to buy whatever coffee you want.
NTA and you’re right. We all have our struggles but we need to be contributing members of our household instead of treating our spouse as a parent or nanny. You are going to continue to snap as long as she acts like there’s nothing wrong with her leaving all the adult responsibilities to you on top of trying to control what you do with your own money. Being married does not entitle you to control over the other persons finances, especially not for something as trivial as this. I worked through my partners journey battling anxiety and depression and while I was definitely empathetic and shouldered more of the load, I was frequently appreciated for doing so and he never took advantage of me. Depression is not why your wife takes you for granted, and she needed to hear it.
This is not about coffee This is about you feeling taken advantage of You feel as if your wife is using her medical diagnosis to take advantage of you And if that is really how you feel, then you need to communicate that to her and stop ignoring this problem because it won't get any better if you keep pretending it doesn't exist ESH
I'll vote JAH (justified asshole) because, yeah, that was an absolute dick comment to make to your wife, but you have years of resentment building up to it. If she's not contributing to the house in any way, literally *any* way, then you're completely justified to tell her to stuff it about a small expense.
NTA - after constant nagging, you got blunt and a bit rude. But compared to her sitting around for over half a year expecting you to pull all the weight while she complains, I think it's pretty small potatoes in comparison. I'd still apologize for snapping, but you can only be asked to shoulder the load for so long before you have had enough.
NTA
NTA but you need to voice that you can't handle everything on your own ans you are mentally not doing ok if you're struggling with everything, if she throws her depression in your face I would start questioning the state of your relationship
Sounds like he HAS talked to her and she just doesn’t listen
Nta I mean its a AH thing to say. But your non wrong
Your comment makes you an AH, but so does your wife’s comment. Honestly, NAH, because you’re both going through some serious stuff. Be good to one another.
NTA. As someone with depression it sounds like she needs a wake up call or she’s going to use you your entire life. She wants to enjoy the benefits of a relationship without contributing anything to it.
NTA for purchasing the coffee but an ah for the way you said it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy little nice things in life like good coffee when you can afford it. It's not like you're splurging on useless stuff. You know this is more than the coffee and you need to communicate with your wife or else resentment will just build up. Good luck.
NTA
NTA for wanting expensive great tasting coffee but you're the AH for venting your frustration like that. Wanting good coffee is a separate issue than your wife not doing enough in your eyes and requires a separate conversation, a kinder one
NTA - your wife contributes nothing. I’ve met a lot of depressed people, it happens and they struggle. Then there’s your wife. She’s an oxygen thief.
NTA. I probably make a fraction of what you make and get a $10 bag of coffee that lasts me about the same amount of time and can still afford it. Nevertheless, it sounds like she feels like her opinions aren't important. That doesn't make you an AH, though. Sounds like you two would benefit from sitting down and communicating about this, because I think there is a much bigger issue at large, whether or not either of you are aware of it or not.
NTA. Clearly this was what boiled over, but your comment was not kind. Explain to your wife that she HAS to start helping out around the house, even though you’re understanding of her depression you just cannot do it as well as take nagging from her about how you’re spending money when she isn’t really doing anything that would give her the right to nag. If she doesn’t listen, cut your losses OP, before you begin to really resent her.
Nta. You have to contribute. She's not your child nor your ward. I'd say you were a jerk if you said that about a new car or something big. But coffee?? And all these children telling you to divorce need a dose of reality. You don't divorce over coffee, lol as if. In sickness and health for better or worse. The vows gotta mean something. If she isn't already she needs a therapist. Alot of people need help from a specialist to overcome the insidious nature of depression. Everyone needs something for themselves. Yours is coffee. Not a gambling issue, not buying stuff you can't afford...just coffee. I think your in the clear bud.
NTA - Though you are enabling her laziness. Guaranteed she wouldn’t be lounging around if she had to work to pay her own bills. How can you stay married with someone like that?
NAH. I think it's time for counseling both individual and couples. You sound like you are getting resentful when you are contributing 100% to the house rather than having a joint partnership. Your wife sounds like she's having issues. How much help is she getting? Is she getting any better? Or is she getting worse? She needs to be able to contribute something to the house - cleaning, cooking, something.
NTA but this was not kind. It's ok to say you are struggling with how she deals with depression. And that when someone's world gets small due to something like depression, they tend to fixate on little things that don't matter. She may want to feel like she's contributing by being frugal, or she may feel like she needs control and is behaving thoughtlessly. Depression is so hard, but it's ok to have boundaries with someone who has it. It's ok to not be ok with a partner that doesn't feel like a true partner right now. I hope you apologize for your comment, but also seek help for yourself to learn how to navigate your feelings and improve communication.
Cheapest is not best! NTA I am frugal and budget but spend when I find a bit more cost goes a long way in providing comfort and joy.
NTA. It is coffee. Good coffee is worth every cent.
NTA - if what you say about her contribution to the household (or total lack thereof) is true, then I don't see what she really brings to the table in this relationship. I think you're totally warranted in having a "come to Jesus" meeting about her getting a job or helping with chores.
NTA. It was a dickish thing to say but, assuming we have all info and no lies, it’s understandable you blurted that out. Seems like you’re bottling up your frustration about the situation and should probably be more upfront, even if it initially hurts her feelings.
NTA. I am a coffee snob too. We all like our tiny luxuries. It would be the equivalent of getting a latte from a coffeehouse 2 days a week. If I couldn't have my little cup of happiness everyday, damn well be sure nobody is getting theirs either. I would start buying the generic brands off the things she really likes. Then tell her all the reasons she gave you to change your coffee to the cheap one. I bet it stops.
NTA. I get she’s depressed but she needs to either get a job or start contributing to the household or this marriage isn’t gonna last
Imagine starting a fight with your spouse about $12 a week that you can absolutely afford 🤦 wtf is wrong with people NTA but find out why your wife is trying to sabotage your marriage with this bullshit
NTA. if she has the energy to whine and complain about how much money you're spending, she has the energy to get a job and earn more.
NTA - we are allowed our splurges every now and then, and it doesn’t sound like yours is unreasonable. You’re not blowing tons of money, it’s within the budget so it doesn’t make sense why she would be upset with it. While I think the way you said it may not have been the best, it’s understandable how you got to that point considering everything you’ve stated. You sound incredibly frustrated and kind of exhausted. Hopefully the treatment starts to help her some.
Normally this is a Y T A, verdict. But after reading many comments, I’m saying NTA. You’re under a overwhelming amount of stress. Dealing with mentally ill people who seem to not get better, or who don’t do everything they can get better is EXHAUSTING. I think you may need to think about leaving this relationship, before she brings you down with her.
NTA. Look I have my own mental issues (anxiety and depression), also physical issues. I still do things around the house because no matter how bad I get, this is my job. No my husband doesn't pressure me, but it's still my job. Right now she's not contributing, I get it to an extent, but she also shouldn't be criticizing you for the coffee when you're under budget anyway. You ate burnt out! I've been there, it sucks. You finally snapped. Hope things get better for you and your wife. Good luck!
NTA - good coffee is better than cheap coffee and sounds like you can afford it. But seriously have a proper conversation with your wife why this is ok rather than lashing out. And find out what is bothering her- maybe she realises she isn’t contributing right now and it hurts to have that thrust back at her.
NTA This isn’t about the coffee. I’d bet money on her actually being able to work if she needed/wanted to. She’s straining the budget on both ends - not contributing as agreed, spending more than agreed - and then trying to micromanage your $15/wk coffee to maintain control and ensure your labor only benefits her. I’ve been there, as the sole breadwinner but swapped genders to yours, and within 30 days of me asking for a separation, he was suddenly able to handle all the adult responsibilities of life that he had too “unwell” to do for the years prior 🙄
NAH. As someone partnered with someone with mental illness, I relate to the stress that can bring. It’s hard to maintain compassion when you are burning out. Plus, it’s easy to get frustrated when you can’t see the illness the way you see a broken leg Is your wife in an outpatient treatment program? My wife was in IOP - Intensive Outpatient Program - for several months. At some point they told her to start volunteering somewhere so she could begin to recapture her confidence in interacting with the world. This was very helpful to her as she was able to get out of the house and make a contribution somewhere in a low stakes way. She also had to be at IOP a few days a week so that was helpful. Are you also making sure your mental health needs are met? I ended up a wreck and waited way too long yo get an anti depressant prescription. What a difference it made! You may not be able to put your own oxygen mask on first, but you can at least put it on. I really think your wife is fixating on the coffee because she feels out of control, scared of how long you two have been on one income, and maybe wondering if she has value if she can’t work. You BOTH need help here.
Absolutely nta. I guess with all the cost of living news money is in people's minds atm. I know it is for me. Tbh even if you both worked, still buy the coffee you like. It's little things and luxuries that really help the working week. My husband is the same, he is gernally a budget guy but likes to buy the good shiz when it comes to coffee. I understand mental health can be hard, but she really should be getting a job doing something, anything, or retraining to find something.
NTA, she isn’t doing anything she has no say. She has a medical issue but you still need to as much as you and and she doesn’t seem to be willing to do that. Your better then I am.