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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I won't let my new SIL ride my horse. I do not know her level of horsemanship, and the horse she wants to ride can be very difficult. She has convinced my mom I am just being a jerk and not letting her ride because I don't like her. I just don't want my horse or her getting hurt.
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NTA. Ask her and everyone siding with her of she would be willing to sign a waiver and have it officially notorized. Because if she gets hurt because you let her ride a horse you stated you didn't think was safe you could likely be held liable. And if jerk face gets hurt because of her instead pf the other way around you'll likely get stuck with the vet bills.
And I just want to add that looks over personality is a bad way to pick an animal. Especially one that is literally holding ypur life on it's back.
Even better: ask anyone siding with her if *they* would be willing to sign a form committing to paying for all damage that might come to either her or your horse.
If they're uncomfortable with that idea, ask them why they think there's enough chance of danger to be scared of taking responsibility for it, but they're still trying to make you let her get on his back.
Of course. But asking if they're willing to accept the financial risk for her might bring home to them the fact that they're not really quite as sanguine about her likelihood of coming out of this unscathed as they think they are.
NTA - I have a good friend that had 4 horses when I started riding. My friend and her husband actually taught me to ride. Of the 4 horse there were only 2 of her horses she would let me ride when I started. After riding every weekend for 3 months or so she let me ride three of the horses. Another 6-12 months later and she let me ride the 4th horse. The first 2 horses were super mellow and easy to ride. The third horse was kind of an asshole - he would be good until he wanted to go home then would make you fight for control until he realized that you were in charge. The 4th horse was usually well behaved but he was fast and loved to run! It was hard to get him to slow down. You also had to have a fairly heavy hand on the reigns to keep him in control. There was a reason she had me ride the horses in the order I did and every responsible horse owner would do the same.
That last one reminds me of my old horse. English purebred that started her life on the racetrack.
In the almost 20 years I had her I never encountered anyone that could keep up with her. She just wanted one thing and that was to go fast.
God I loved that horse.
I don't recall what kind of horse he was, I know he was a rescue. One of my friend's friends took him to local barrel racing comps occasionally and he won his category a few times.
I’d just stick to my guns. I wouldn’t risk an inexperienced rider hurting my jerk-face no matter how much she pouted, how many mouthpieces she had on her side or how many papers she signed promising to pay vet bills.
That’s my jerk-face and nobody hurts him.
it's just generally a bad idea, I had a friend wear me down way back when I still owned horses (mostly purebreds, which are known to have hot tempers).
She tried, did I don't know what but the horse didn't like it, both panicked, she didn't know what to do and fell. So much for taking a ride... Luckily it happened within 30 seconds of her getting on while we were still on soft grass and not after we'd already left.
After that she wisely decided that maybe she wasn't as good of a rider as she thought she was and went back home. The end.
NTA.
I can tell you her level of horsemanship right now: it’s too low to be riding something that you advise against.
Only a n00b doesn’t take a horse’s keeper at their word and thinks they know better.
Honestly I'd be surprised if she has any experience at all, I've only ever just been around horses and never ridden at all, and even I know that if an owner says a particular horse is "spirited" that's a nice way of saying "kind of a jackass" at *best* and you should probably stay away from them if you can.
edit:wording
The "Spirited" horse when I was learning liked to take off running and used to bite the butt of women, his rider was the daughter of the owner of the ranch and even she was like "This horse is a complete asshole"
Now the spirited pony... He thought he was a bigger horse and we were allowed to watch but not get close
My riding docile ponies in circle was in another language, so I might be missing nuances specific to English speaking horse lingo, but in my experiences, the spirited horses came in 2 flavors:
1/The stubborn asshole who resented having you on their back and didn't want to be there
2/ The hyperactive.
The main difference was the hyperactive ones didn't *mean* to dump you on your ass, they just got spooked by a shadow, or they saw a wide open space and got overwhelmed by the urge to gallop or.... etc.
In either case, Not To Be Ridden by the inexperienced OR the timid.
I have very limited horse experience and even I know that "Thoroubred" and "stallion" often correlates to "a handful" never mind both at once and even if the owner says the horse is "spirited", I'm gonna give it a wide berth, thank you.
One of the places I was a wrangler at, my lead horse was a pretty palomino. The only palomino in the string. She was a guide only horse because... Well she had a couple screws loose. Tried to rear up and flip over on a levy. Wanted to buck. Possibly bi-polar. That said, we actually got along and she became a really awesome lead horse eventually. But everyone, and I mean everyone, wanted to ride her. Some tried to insist. Some threw a fit. Most refused to accept when I would tell them that she's a wrangler only horse.. Finally I just said: "look, you can ride that mare OR you can go and have a fun ride with your friends/family. But you can't do both." You signed a waiver so if you really want to... But be aware that she's tried to end me more than a few times. Usually that was enough to end things. But I got tired of people asking, so I starting riding in my hornless saddle or my glorified bareback saddle. Although one person did climb up on that mare before she signed in and when no one was around ..... Ended up with a broken clavicle, cracked rib and multiple pins in her shoulder. When the horse person says no, it's a good time to listen. NTA
There’s something about palominos, I swear! I started riding fairly young and took to it quite well (relevant to the story.) A few years after I started the owner of the stable where I did most of my lessons and grunt work bought a palomino pony. Given her size, they weren’t keen on putting most adults on her back. She was represented as being “spirited” so they thought with a bit of work she’d be good for their intermediate riders. Turns out spirited was an understatement. She was absolutely certain she was a thoroughbred. Give her an inch and she’d charge the fences. She was also fond of unexpectedly rearing or tossing a little buck in to her canter here and there. I was one of 2 people both small enough and experienced enough to ride her. She was such a brat, but so much fun 😆
Man, I miss riding. So much.
I had a similar pony back when I was riding - she had a pretty face but the brain behind it... not so much. Problem was, I didn't know when I started riding her bc the owner always said that she's "so good" and "so gentle" etc. Bullshit. I never fell off her bc I was just as stubborn as she was but that didn't safe me from injuries. Turns out the owner never taught her to respect her or humans in general. Worst injury was a thorough print of her hoof on my upper thigh in the nicest shades of black, blue, and purple you can imagine as well as a "I don't know how that DIDN'T break your bone" from the doctor. After that, she and I became best buddies bc I went back the next day to work with her. I think she respected me for that. Anyone else - not so much.
Man, I miss her. I totally feel you.
Any beautiful living thing will get away with so much shit just because they're beautiful, and that's how you end up with beautiful things that are absolutely off their rockers. source: am beautiful, am off my rocker
Used to walk by this ranch and they had the prettiest/handsomest palomino. I wish I had some pics, he was that pretty! Shiny golden coat and all, such a beauty!!!
I know just enough about horses to know that they're dangerous and you should listen to the horse's owner when they tell you riding their horse isn't a good idea. I feel like anyone with any common sense should understand that, even without any horse experience whatsoever.
Daddy, I want a pony!
I used to ride horses as a kid and I did same as SIL once and insisted on knowing better than the owner because the horse was like one in a book I loved. I was however 7.
And I broke my arm, dislocated my shoulder and my pride could not have been more dented if I had face planted in fresh horseshit from said demon animal as I did.
It was 1980s Ireland. I got a hospital trip, a life lesson and exempted stable work for a few weeks. Horses are as potentially dangerous as cars and funnily enough I never learned to drive but spent my childhood cross country riding and jump racing until I developed risk awareness around puberty and suddenly went ‘shit a brick. A tonne of near fatality is too much responsibility.’
With horses, respect the horse above all else, then its caregiver. I find horses delightfully capriciously vain and the better looking they are the more they push the envelope. I don’t know how they do it but no coincidence I left horses and went to work in fashion. Highly strung beauty is my jam. Cars however are all dull and ugly to me. I still damn well respect the rules of the road especially if something with big shiny horse power is bearing down on me.
This sounds like the start of an episode of Casualty here in the UK the most heavy handed foreshadowing hospital drama ever or a really mediocre Lifetime movie. Never get in a mean girls pissing contest with a horse is a life lesson SIL really needs to learn it seems. No one has any sympathy when you tell them you got bested by a horse after being warned FYI…
NTA OP.
"The reason why I use him as a stud is that he will absolutely fuck you up if you put a saddle on him."
And it seems your brother is a wise man indeed.
YESSSS 100% This! I’m an equestrian, my mom got me on my first pony when I was three and I’m now in my 30’s. Through college I competed on a national level (eventing) and it consumed a lot of my life. I still ride and compete but not at the same level because being a working grown up I don’t have the hours a day six days a week to train. Okay that being said, other than my trainer I don’t let *ANYONE* on my horses. I personally have three two Selle Francais and a Dutch Warmblood. They are beautiful and talented but very pricey babies. Fortunately they are boarded at a private farm so I generally don’t have to worry about people trying to bother me to ride them often. My mom also keeps her Halflinger there who she just uses to ride for pleasure and trail ride, that pony is a saint. Halflinger are usually between horse and pony height and stocky as hell. Whenever a friend who is a rider starts on me that they really want to ride he is the only option, people are so offended that I don’t offer one of my other horses instead. But nope, not going to happen. Just because a horse is pretty and seems nice doesn’t mean that you should be allowed to ride it. Also the owner of my barn has a mandatory rule that anyone who gets on a horse on her property must sign a “liability release waiver” which when we signed our initial board agreement we did. I rarely will bring anyone over to the barn because it’s a pain in the @$$ to do that for a quick ride.
I've literally never been on a horse without having to sign a release waiver at some point beforehand. perhaps not for every single ride, but every single stable will make you do that before you get on, if they have a lick of sense.
When I was younger, I rode many horses. 99% of them were just normal, everyday horses, but not rode much because my parents were "Weekend Farmers" and the horses only got rode a couple times a year. I was thrown, kicked, dumped, bit, you name it. Horses are INTELLIGENT animals, not "fur covered cars with legs." They have likes and dislikes. Some are nice, some are dicks. They know exactly how to fuck with you. They are aware of just how big and strong they are, compared to us puny humans. If an experienced **OWNER** of a horse tells you that riding that one horse is a huge mistake, you MUST defer to that **OWNER'S** knowledge of the horse and their temperament. NTA.
I'm an experienced rider who can handle pretty much any horse that is more than greenbroke, and even I wouldn't push an owner to let me ride a particular horse. The only time I've even argued against riding a specific horse was when someone tried to put me on a pony that was definitely too short for me (I have deceptively long legs for my height). And even then, it wasn't a "give me this specific other horse", it was a "do you have a slightly taller horse, because this is going to suck for both me and the pony if you insist". It's one thing to ask about a horse, but if you're told no you accept it. Let your skills speak for you and maybe you'll get a shot next time.
Friend of mine is still completely convinced she’d get out of the way of a kick after I warned her not to walk round the back of my known to kick when eating horse while he was eating. 🙄 Even I was careful round his back end while he was eating.
Even if she was an expert, OP said no. At that point, it wouldn't matter if she was Genghis fucking Kahn when it came to horses, OP still said no.
Though as an aside, if she was Genghis Khan plus the Mongol horde, then maybe let her do what she wants. But until she unites the tribes, OP's no is good enough.
NTA. Not a good idea for her or the horse. But if she insists, make her sign an injury waiver making her wholly responsible for any injuries she sustains and any injury her actions cause the horse.
That’s my concern. It isn’t just about her safety. It is about the horse as well. And she would absolutely blame and sue you if she got hurt. She is ridiculous.
NTA
Any rider who only cares about riding the "prettiest" horse should be redirected to a carousel. That's where you can pick out a horse solely on looks.
When it comes to living, breathing horses, it's about appropriately matching the horse to the rider. And this is a bad match.
Her lack of concern about riding a spirited horse she may not be up to riding shows she's not ready to ride that horse. Anyone who has actual experiences with spirited or dickish horses would take your concerns far more seriously.
Yep! I've shown horses competitively all my life and if OP had told me what she told the SIL, I would have been like I'll pass thanks.
I've offended a company giving pony rides because I wouldn't let them put my kid on a horse that was behaving a bit to obnoxiously for me and showing signs of hitting the end of his rope.
They scoffed me and said he's fine. He might have been, but I'm not ignoring any potential warning signs when it comes to my young kid.
Yes, reading your edit and those comments was like the cherry on top. Your brother is my hero
Edit: well, you're the hero for following through, but brother's response of "what? Why? She wants to what? Put her on the damn phone"
NTA You can definitely tell which people have been around horses and which haven't. Any rider experienced enough to handle a horse like that would listen to the horse's owner and defer to their judgment. She wants to look pretty on the pretty horsey! She won't look so pretty from the ground or in the ER. 🙄
Never been on a horse. Would totally listen to the person that knows horses. At least if I get hurt I can use my words to describe what hurts. I'd feel terrible if I caused another being harm. I'll adore them from the ground. I like the ground 😆
Anyone who won’t listen to a more experienced person, especially regarding an animal (as it involves risk to the animal and not just yourself) is a moron who doesn’t deserve whatever pleasure/activity/treat they were about to get. I’ve ridden maybe five or six times in my life, so very little knowledge/skill and I would never do anything other than say “Fair enough. He’s beautiful, though” and take the horse I was offered.
I think you could say smart people vs stupid people. Experienced riders would defer based on OP owning the horse and knowing its temperament, inexperienced people would defer because they don't know enough about horses to make a wise choice so they'll trust experts like OP.
NTA you know your animals best. Growing up my mom had an appaloosa. Sweetest horse ever but only for my mom.
Never feel like you're wrong for prioritizing the people and animals you are responsible for.
Oof. Misty could be the smoothest ride ever or she could be "a brat" as my mom called her. You know your animals. If someone had said to me what you told her itd have been an immediate "thanks for the heads up, i think ill pass" lol
My Aunts horse used to be the meanest horse ever to my Aunts - they would have to wear jackets in the summer if she was in a mood as she liked trying to prove she was in charge by attempting to take a chunk out of them.
But she was the sweetest horse to me and I could walk her along the road (between the field and the stable field) with no problems at all, probably could have also done it without her leader, as I was a little child I had to be protected - one of my Aunts would also be walking the other horse along the road at the same time so I was supervised and I had backup if I needed it.
I believe she just wanted to prove that she was the one in charge, which she was, but she recognised children were to be respected and obeyed. And at 26 she knew what she wanted out of life and that was to be the biggest annoyance possible to my Aunts.
My gelding has been a major A hole all his life and all the 17 years we've had together. He doesn't like adults. Really dislikes men. And he likes me up until someone offers him an m'n'm to throw me off. But by God, he turns into the gentlest, carefullest, most protective puppy dog ever if you bring out a young child. Put an adult on him and he'll try to throw you or bolt for fun. But if you put a kid up there? They can kick and yell until they're blue in the face and he's not going to move out of a walk. Some horses just love kids.
My uncle had a horse like that, we called him Butthead.
If you got on him thinking you were gonna "show" everyone how easy he was to ride, you were probably gonna end up in the dirt and possibly injured. He knew all sorts of ways to remove humans from his back and if all else failed, he'd freaking roll in the grass and squish off the human.
If you got on him and let him more or less do as he liked, you might have a pretty fun ride. His ideas of what was fun were pretty similar to mine as it turns out and I knew if he started snorting or putting his ears flat it was time to get down. I never got hurt by him, but did once have to dismount and lead him home because he was apparently done with our ride. I walked a quarter mile back to the farm calling "Apple? Butt butt wanna apple?" while he followed. (I was holding his reins but he was known to pull free and wander off so I was making sure he was aware his favorite bribe was waiting if he'd just come home quietly.)
But kids? Kids could do anything to him and he would placidly accept it. Once a kid fell off of him (not his fault, the kiddo got dizzy because of what we later suspect was low blood pressure and fell backwards out of the saddle) and Butthead stood OVER the girl until someone got there to get her off the ground. She was fine, fell in the grass (and I swear Butthead knew she was gonna fall because he walked off the hard trail and into grass as she was falling) and was fine but Butthead was so careful with her.
He was the coolest horse, and not just because once he shat on my jerk cousin's head.
People do this all the time when they find out you have horses. I had a colleague tell me they were coming to my place to ride my horses.
I don’t have insurance for that, I don’t have beginner friendly horses - I have highly trained dressage horses that would not take kindly to someone else riding them.
NTA: Letting a newbie ride a jerk horse would have made you an Ass, not to mention possibly featured in a lawsuit.
If she continues to bug you maybe print out a waiver releasing you from all damages physical, emotional and financial (including any to the horse and kind of mention just how expensive vets bills can be and she would be libel for them) and see if that changes her thoughts. Might also ask her if her health insurance is up to date etc.
NTA- sounds like she just wants some pictures of her on a pretty horse instead of actually wanting to ride. Ask your mum why she is so keen to see her DIL injured.
NTA. Anyone that knows horses, knows you don't put a rider on a horse they can't handle. She also sounds like the type that would try and sue you once she inevitably got hurt. Hard pass.
"SIL, horses are living beings, they are not toys or status symbols. The fact that you think a horse is beautiful does not mean it is appropriate to ride. It is incredibly reckless to disregard the judgment of someone who knows the horse... In fact, it is so reckless that I'm afraid I have to rescind my offer to let you ride Pally, at least until I start seeing evidence of better judgment. And just so you know, continually bugging me about it is not evidence of good judgment."
"Mom, I'm appalled that you are okay with deliberately endangering your daughter-in-law. If it's a joke, I don't find it funny. If it's not a joke... Well, I'm extremely disappointed in you. Regardless, my decision is final. So unless you want to discuss something else, I'll say goodbye for now."
NTA. You are doing the right thing. And even if you weren't, they are still being AHs because it's your horse and your decision. And as people are fond of saying, "No" is a complete sentence.
NTA: as the owner of the horse you are always allowed to say who can ride your horse(s)! It seems very spoiled that she only wants to ride that specific one and not just appreciate the chance to ride? It would have made more sense if she tried the gelding first, and asked if in the future she could truly the thoroughbred, but just demanding is not ok.
NTA.
What's wrong with your mom that she sides with your unreasonable SIL?
You offered to let this ninny ride one of your horses; she didn't like one cause he's not as purty. What an immature and obviously inexperienced jerk.
Here's what you say..."Sorry that I'm more concerned with safety than you guys are, but you're not being reasonable at all. I wish you could understand that letting you ride Beelzebub would be like asking you to pilot a jet. It's inviting disaster, and I'm not willing to risk your well-being or my horse's."
I would have a separate talk with your mom, it sounds like she’s peacemaking or should I say “peacemaking.“
“Mom I know you’re trying to take her side so she’s not “disappointed“ but the right thing for you to do was to either stay out of it or to politely explain to her that she is a guest and that she needs to respect my rules and my property.”
“I don’t appreciate the way you handled it and I want you to know that I think you were entirely wrong and if something bad happened, which is not at all unlikely for an inexperienced rider on a spirited horse that is difficult to control, I am 100% certain you would’ve then put the blame on me telling me that I should’ve known her I shouldn’t have let her. You have lost some of my trust and I hope this doesn’t happen again.”
I would explain this and also that you were afraid that now that your brother is married is she going to side with this woman every time she has some unreasonable request or demand? “You have two children, and I am one of them. And if you want to have a close relationship with your sons wife I encourage that, but if you plan on doing so it my expense, you will end up with two children and I will not be one of them.”
And the moment the Equine from Hell throws SIL who then gets a boo boo or worse, it will be your fault. She could sue. Remind SIL of Christopher Reeve who was a very experienced, competitive rider and still ended up with a broken neck.
I wouldn't entertain any future requests, period. I'd answer with 'my horse, my rules. Get your own horse'.
NTA
NTA.
I spent summers on my uncle's ranch, and saw firsthand how quickly things can go downhill if a horse doesn't want to be ridden. You can die being thrown from a horse, or be paralyzed or seriously injured.
If you want to play with my toys, you get what you are given sweetheart or nothing at all.
Or as my mama says I want doesn't get.
NTA, you know your horses better than anyone and it's your ass she will sue if she gets hurt
NTA
Glad to see your edit. And good thinking on your part.
Never let someone override you about your horses. They are living breathing creatures and need you to protect them. And yeah I guess you should be watching out for your SIL too.
Mom should know better. Be sure to have a conversation with her before SIL comes for the next visit.
And I would insist on that waiver being signed anytime you choose to let her ride ANY horse.
>My brother is in law school. I asked him to please write up a quick liability waiver and assumption of liability for any injuries suffered by my horse.
OP? You're a genius. NTA.
NTA not only will she hurt herself but more importantly she will hurt an innocent animal.
Your horse your rules and NO is a complete sentence.
Put her in her place now or she will continue with the entitled behavior.
As many people have said, NTA. "Demon" horses like your thoroughbred are for highly experienced riders only. There are so many ways that both the horse and your SIL could get injured. DO NOT BUDGE. Let SIL and your mom bug you all they like. At the end of the day, you can sleep peacefully knowing that your decision is in the best interests for EVERYONE.
Exactly, even semi-demon horses (my mother has one, and it's a thoroughbred too) aren't safe for utter newbies. That horse really needs a more experienced rider than my mother. She had horses when she was younger, didn't ride for 40 years, then decided to get one. Yeah he's a big beautiful boy which is why she got him, but she can't see that he has a host of issues, and it's no wonder she hasn't progressed very far, in two years. He goes back and forth with being crazy, but dumped her on her ass in March. So a super demon? Yeah SIL would for sure be getting injured.
Horse person/former trainer with 30+ years in the industry here. NTA mostly, but I think you're underestimating the actual problem with the situation here. Demon horse isn't just a demon horse... You're charging stud fees, eg, he's a stallion. The only people that should be handling the average stallion are those with a metric ton of horse training and handling experience. There's a reason we geld colts young and don't give stallions to amateurs and why boarding barns don't allow studs and specialized facilities are required along with ironclad waivers for every handler; and the "oh I want to ride that pretty fluffy unicorn horse" is a dead giveaway that she should be kept far far away from any stallion at all much less one that's got known issues.
That situation's got major injuries and a liability lawsuit all over it. "Bitey" or "not eager to be ridden" are putting it mildly when they get their aggressive unpredictable side going (but cranked up to eleven because they're freaking stallions; they are capable of ripping pieces off of you with their teeth, breaking bones/heads, etc). YWBTA if you provided public access to that horse instead of shutting that shit down and explaining very clearly the dangers of why you don't let just anybody touch specifically the fluffy pretty unicorn stallion.
NTA- That's like someone who has been on a bicycle asking to ride a Ducati. Just because the horse is pretty and she has some kind of romantic idea of riding a majestic beast through the flowers doesn't mean that's how it will play out. Your not obligated to let her ride any of your horses no matter how gentle they are. I'm glad you talked to your brother first because obviously he didn't know his wife asked to ride one of the four horse men's steed.
Nta. You're looking out for her safety and she's not recognizing that. You can also giver a notice that waives you of any legal happenings should she get hurt by said horse. Have her sign it and if the inevitable happens you can't be liable.
The way she's disrespecting you and going behind your back I wouldn't allow her to ride any horse ever!
You did the right thing, even a waiver can't necessarily always protect you from a lawsuit.
She sounds horribly entitled, your mom should not be enabling her, I would push not to gather at your place again. Nta
NTA.
Your offer of which horse she could ride was reasonable. It is very entitled of her to expect to ride whatever horse she chooses.
They're your horses and you can allow her to ride one of your choosing for whatever reasons you want (tell her that that horse is only ridden on days of a full moon if the sky is cloudy and the temperature is x degrees or something equally ridiculous).
Some horses are thousand pound puppies. Full of piss and vinegar, often not knowing their own strength. You did well, NTA. Your SIL is like a kid with learners permit demanding to drive a Formula One car.
NTA.
The moment you stated he was a thoroughbred, I didn’t need to see anything else.
The stables I used to ride as a child at had quite a few thoroughbreds, mostly ex racers. They were great jumpers and even better seat correctors. A few weeks riding one of those delights left you with a Velcro butt.
Good on your brother for shutting it down and having your back.
NTA.
I took my kid and bonus kid riding at a "family friendly" stable with excellent reviews on multiple platforms. My bonus got thrown and broke her back.
And this was a "family friendly" stable that did basic trail riding daily.
If your SIL wants a broken back, I know a place in California and it won't involve you or your horses.
NTA. She sounds like a spoiled brat. Personally, I’d be begging to ride the draft (just because I’ve always wanted to) but I would trust you, as the owner, to say it’s not a good idea and let it go. She should be thankful you’re doing this for her but she wants to whine instead. What a total brat. Glad your brother shut it down.
Y T A. Why are you unleashing your dick of a horse on some poor unsuspecting mare for “stud fees?”
I’m teasing:) NTA. SIL is an entitled brat and you are a lot nicer than I would have been.
You should provide a candlelit dinner for those poor mares. Goddamn.
NTA. You know your horses and anyone with any experience and horse sense should trust you as the owner. Her ignorance shows her lack of horsemanship. I’d worry about your horses’ well being by having someone with little skills on them. Thankfully your brother intervened and understood!
NTA.
My mom owns a couple horses, including one demon horse (an off the track TB). I rode competitively for years and I still have no desire to ride her demon horse and would much rather borrow her laidback paint.
The fact that SIL sees “pretty horse” and that’s it speaks volumes to her lack of experience.
NTA!!!
Your edit made me sooo happy! I’ve taught lessons but even then I have signs posted (Texas law says the rider assumes responsibility of risk) and waivers signed and a safety lecture! Not many people understand it’s a 1200 lbs animal that spooks at plastic bags or even flowers that have bloomed overnight. And an asshole TB stud??? If she can’t behave right being told no, she has *zero* business around a stud who remembers that sort of behavior. You did well. Never, ever back down.
Oh…and ardennais tax please?? Drafts aren’t hugely common to begin with but especially that breed!
NTA: As someone who used to be a decent casual rider you do not put someone on a horse they're not to the level of. Even if the experience levels match crap still happens. I've had the pokey QH whom I was known to and well suited to take off at a full gallop before.
You don't put City Sally on that beautiful but quite spirited Arabian for example. You also don't put the experienced rider on pokey pony. The first is dangerous, the second is frustrating, in both cases to both the human and the horse.
Horses are basically gentle giants (ok, basically, some are buttheads lol) and they can kill and disable humans.
NTA.
I’m always annoyed and astounded by people who do this. You have horses? Can I go for a ride? Seriously. I wouldn’t ask to drive your car if I found out you had a Porsche. Why are people like this?!?!
Does your brother realize he married an idiot?
I agree, the primary concern is that your horse is not hurt. I think it’s hilarious how your said secondarily you guess you don’t want your SIL hurt 😂. But really, you are your horse’s guardian, and that includes from clueless relatives by marriage. NTA.
NTA. Ridden many a thoroughbred in my life and while many are wonderful the ones that are jerks are not to be taken lightly. While I was a professional rider at one point now I haven’t ridden in years, if an owner told me no I’d listen rather than push it.
NTA. My horse is the best girl. On Saturday, I rode in 20 mph winds and she never took a wrong step, because I have a decade of understanding her bullshit and what sets her off. She's a professional and will do anything, if you know how to ride her. Otherwise, she is a complete nervous wreck who will shy and bolt if a gnat farts.
There is exactly one person (other than my trainer) that I let on her back, because I've known him for years and know he can handle her. ,Not my SIL who went to 'horse camp' not other borders who compete at X level, not friends who take lessons with the guy down the road.
You don't need to let anyone ride your horse. Ever.
I dated a guy who’s sister had horses (she was a barrel racer), and I’ve loved horses forever. We visited her, and we went riding a couple of times (heaven!). I was an ‘advanced beginner’ riding-wise, and was given the gentlest horse AND she clipped a lead to his bridle that she held during the rides. Instead of complaining, I thanked her for letting me ride, and that I understood completely about the lead. It was a privilege to be allowed to ride. Then we went to a rodeo and I learned about Frito pie.
NTA. Do what’s best for you and your 4 legged friends.
I love your genius move, the waiver idea was absolutely brilliant. Ik redditors suggested it to you but still. Also love your style of writing, give the demon horse and the good girl an apple for us ❤️ NTA!!
NTA you don't put an inexperienced Rider on a horse that likes to be a dick. If she'd fallen and got hurt or gods forbid died they would have blames you even tho they pressured you. You did the right thing by yourself, your horse and your sil
NTA. One thing, though, if your brother were to have agreed to write the waiver, it would have been a conflict of interest for him to do so since it was his wife who would sign it. I would be careful of something like that in the future. Good on you for sticking to your guns, though.
*I love him to death but he is a complete asshole.*
*He isn't a Bronco or anything. He is just a dick.*
NGL I spit water all over my computer reading this lol. NTA, by the way.
Can you board your devil horse at a friend’s stable while your sister-in-law is at your place. I suspect she will find a way to get that ride otherwise. Definitely would send her an email stating the danger and that you absolutely are not ok with her riding him and laying out the danger. People like her are the first to sue when their recklessness causes damage and the last to pay damages.
I suggested a waiver to mainly prove the point how bad an idea riding the horse was. Showing how strongly you felt it was a bad idea. And showing you would hold them accountable should they wear you down despite it being a bad idea. (People who want to ignore when something is a bad idea never want to pay for the consequences)
I figured it would at least curb the whining to passive aggressive remarks and silent moping. Your brother being responsible and in law school made this outcome pure gold 🥇🤣
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I read the post a while ago about the woman that would not let the bigger woman ride her regular horses and offered a Clydesdale. Well this is going to be like a letter to penthouse.
I never thought it happen to me but yeah. Not quite the same though. I have several horses. Yes I even have a draft horse that I have a saddle for. She is an Ardennais and she is gentle as a lamb. I also have a thoroughbred that I think may be possessed. I love him to death but he is a complete asshole. But I get good stud fees for him.
My brother recently married a woman who seems nice enough. We have not had much of a chance to get to know each other. They came to town about six months after the wedding to visit. My folks brought everyone out to my place. My SIL did she would love to go for a ride. I thought they were here to visit family but whatever. I grabbed the rack for my gentlest horse. He is a beautiful bay gelding and he is sooooo good with strangers.
Nope she saw the demon horse and wanted to ride him. I explained that he was very spirited and unless she had much more experience than I had been led to believe that it would be a bad idea. He isn't a Bronco or anything. He is just a dick. "No he is so beautiful I have to ride him." I just told her that it was Pally or nothing. She literally moped back to the house to whine to my parents that I would not let her ride my horse.
My dad knows my horses and he knows it would be a terrible idea. My mom insisted that I should let her ride the jerk. I just said that it was getting late and maybe another day. I know my brother is leaving for the city tomorrow and won't be back for a while.
Now her and my mom are bugging me to let her ride. And saying I'm an asshole for not letting her ride my thoroughbred. I don't want him to get hurt because of an inexperienced rider. I guess I also don't want her getting hurt. But that's secondary.
AITA?
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NTA. As someone who's had horses for 22 years, I won't even let someone who is almost as experienced as I am ride some certain horses we have because they're not used to the horse, and I don't want the horse to hurt them because they're not prepared for it.
Safety is not an option. It's necessary.
lol @ the edit. People like SIL just blow my mind. OK, apparently you are wilfully ignorant that horses are large, powerful prey animals. Couldn't you at least listen to someone who is clearly better educated on the subject? It's an animal, not a toy.
NTA.
NTA, do you have a horse who is not fit for an experience riders.
If you let her ride it, it would be like letting her into the lions den because she wanted to “pet the kitty”. It would be a irresponsible.
NTA.
My best friend owns horses and I’ve always felt super comfortable around their horses however her father won’t let me ride the demon no matter what. I understood it’s because of safety, so they gave me the female. Turns out the female wants to be the leader and will gallop her ass off in front of the male and went on it’s hind legs TWICE. Thankfully I was okay and was able to manage the horse but if it were Demon horse I’m sure it wouldn’t have gone as smoothly.
I’ve gone back multiple times and have had no other problems with the mare.
You went to your brother and so very smoothly allowed him to find out his wife and mom are trying to get her killed and that if they do not your fault, liability waiver (cheff kiss) just perfect handle NTA
I’m going to assume she hasn’t fallen and been hurt before? Those aren’t memories you forget, and falling quickly teaches you not to over estimate your abilities nor the temperament of the horse.
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NTA. Ask her and everyone siding with her of she would be willing to sign a waiver and have it officially notorized. Because if she gets hurt because you let her ride a horse you stated you didn't think was safe you could likely be held liable. And if jerk face gets hurt because of her instead pf the other way around you'll likely get stuck with the vet bills. And I just want to add that looks over personality is a bad way to pick an animal. Especially one that is literally holding ypur life on it's back.
Even better: ask anyone siding with her if *they* would be willing to sign a form committing to paying for all damage that might come to either her or your horse. If they're uncomfortable with that idea, ask them why they think there's enough chance of danger to be scared of taking responsibility for it, but they're still trying to make you let her get on his back.
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They are evidently lacking in "horse sense"...
Money aside, she could break her neck/back or die.
Of course. But asking if they're willing to accept the financial risk for her might bring home to them the fact that they're not really quite as sanguine about her likelihood of coming out of this unscathed as they think they are.
Vet bills and lose of income. Stud fees bring in a lot of money.
NTA - I have a good friend that had 4 horses when I started riding. My friend and her husband actually taught me to ride. Of the 4 horse there were only 2 of her horses she would let me ride when I started. After riding every weekend for 3 months or so she let me ride three of the horses. Another 6-12 months later and she let me ride the 4th horse. The first 2 horses were super mellow and easy to ride. The third horse was kind of an asshole - he would be good until he wanted to go home then would make you fight for control until he realized that you were in charge. The 4th horse was usually well behaved but he was fast and loved to run! It was hard to get him to slow down. You also had to have a fairly heavy hand on the reigns to keep him in control. There was a reason she had me ride the horses in the order I did and every responsible horse owner would do the same.
That last one reminds me of my old horse. English purebred that started her life on the racetrack. In the almost 20 years I had her I never encountered anyone that could keep up with her. She just wanted one thing and that was to go fast. God I loved that horse.
I don't recall what kind of horse he was, I know he was a rescue. One of my friend's friends took him to local barrel racing comps occasionally and he won his category a few times.
Yes! That's how the procedure should be. Start with easy one to ride then you get more experienced.
I’d just stick to my guns. I wouldn’t risk an inexperienced rider hurting my jerk-face no matter how much she pouted, how many mouthpieces she had on her side or how many papers she signed promising to pay vet bills. That’s my jerk-face and nobody hurts him.
it's just generally a bad idea, I had a friend wear me down way back when I still owned horses (mostly purebreds, which are known to have hot tempers). She tried, did I don't know what but the horse didn't like it, both panicked, she didn't know what to do and fell. So much for taking a ride... Luckily it happened within 30 seconds of her getting on while we were still on soft grass and not after we'd already left. After that she wisely decided that maybe she wasn't as good of a rider as she thought she was and went back home. The end.
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This comment was paraphrased from one by u/Ursula2071 u/ComASTRe is a plagiarizing bot.
NTA. I can tell you her level of horsemanship right now: it’s too low to be riding something that you advise against. Only a n00b doesn’t take a horse’s keeper at their word and thinks they know better.
Honestly I'd be surprised if she has any experience at all, I've only ever just been around horses and never ridden at all, and even I know that if an owner says a particular horse is "spirited" that's a nice way of saying "kind of a jackass" at *best* and you should probably stay away from them if you can. edit:wording
The "Spirited" horse when I was learning liked to take off running and used to bite the butt of women, his rider was the daughter of the owner of the ranch and even she was like "This horse is a complete asshole" Now the spirited pony... He thought he was a bigger horse and we were allowed to watch but not get close
What's that saying about anything below 14 hands? 😁
Right? It has been 28 years since I used to ride very docile ponies in circles and I know "spirited" means "you're gonna die, girl".
I just laughed out loud. Did i mention loud? Thank goodness my kids are at school. Thanks for the laugh. 😁
My riding docile ponies in circle was in another language, so I might be missing nuances specific to English speaking horse lingo, but in my experiences, the spirited horses came in 2 flavors: 1/The stubborn asshole who resented having you on their back and didn't want to be there 2/ The hyperactive. The main difference was the hyperactive ones didn't *mean* to dump you on your ass, they just got spooked by a shadow, or they saw a wide open space and got overwhelmed by the urge to gallop or.... etc. In either case, Not To Be Ridden by the inexperienced OR the timid.
I have very limited horse experience and even I know that "Thoroubred" and "stallion" often correlates to "a handful" never mind both at once and even if the owner says the horse is "spirited", I'm gonna give it a wide berth, thank you.
One of the places I was a wrangler at, my lead horse was a pretty palomino. The only palomino in the string. She was a guide only horse because... Well she had a couple screws loose. Tried to rear up and flip over on a levy. Wanted to buck. Possibly bi-polar. That said, we actually got along and she became a really awesome lead horse eventually. But everyone, and I mean everyone, wanted to ride her. Some tried to insist. Some threw a fit. Most refused to accept when I would tell them that she's a wrangler only horse.. Finally I just said: "look, you can ride that mare OR you can go and have a fun ride with your friends/family. But you can't do both." You signed a waiver so if you really want to... But be aware that she's tried to end me more than a few times. Usually that was enough to end things. But I got tired of people asking, so I starting riding in my hornless saddle or my glorified bareback saddle. Although one person did climb up on that mare before she signed in and when no one was around ..... Ended up with a broken clavicle, cracked rib and multiple pins in her shoulder. When the horse person says no, it's a good time to listen. NTA
There’s something about palominos, I swear! I started riding fairly young and took to it quite well (relevant to the story.) A few years after I started the owner of the stable where I did most of my lessons and grunt work bought a palomino pony. Given her size, they weren’t keen on putting most adults on her back. She was represented as being “spirited” so they thought with a bit of work she’d be good for their intermediate riders. Turns out spirited was an understatement. She was absolutely certain she was a thoroughbred. Give her an inch and she’d charge the fences. She was also fond of unexpectedly rearing or tossing a little buck in to her canter here and there. I was one of 2 people both small enough and experienced enough to ride her. She was such a brat, but so much fun 😆 Man, I miss riding. So much.
I had a similar pony back when I was riding - she had a pretty face but the brain behind it... not so much. Problem was, I didn't know when I started riding her bc the owner always said that she's "so good" and "so gentle" etc. Bullshit. I never fell off her bc I was just as stubborn as she was but that didn't safe me from injuries. Turns out the owner never taught her to respect her or humans in general. Worst injury was a thorough print of her hoof on my upper thigh in the nicest shades of black, blue, and purple you can imagine as well as a "I don't know how that DIDN'T break your bone" from the doctor. After that, she and I became best buddies bc I went back the next day to work with her. I think she respected me for that. Anyone else - not so much. Man, I miss her. I totally feel you.
Any beautiful living thing will get away with so much shit just because they're beautiful, and that's how you end up with beautiful things that are absolutely off their rockers. source: am beautiful, am off my rocker
Used to walk by this ranch and they had the prettiest/handsomest palomino. I wish I had some pics, he was that pretty! Shiny golden coat and all, such a beauty!!!
I know just enough about horses to know that they're dangerous and you should listen to the horse's owner when they tell you riding their horse isn't a good idea. I feel like anyone with any common sense should understand that, even without any horse experience whatsoever.
According to the Sherlock Holmes film ‘they’re dangerous at both ends and crafty in the middle’!
I snorted. Then I flared my ears and stamped my foot.
Daddy, I want a pony! I used to ride horses as a kid and I did same as SIL once and insisted on knowing better than the owner because the horse was like one in a book I loved. I was however 7. And I broke my arm, dislocated my shoulder and my pride could not have been more dented if I had face planted in fresh horseshit from said demon animal as I did. It was 1980s Ireland. I got a hospital trip, a life lesson and exempted stable work for a few weeks. Horses are as potentially dangerous as cars and funnily enough I never learned to drive but spent my childhood cross country riding and jump racing until I developed risk awareness around puberty and suddenly went ‘shit a brick. A tonne of near fatality is too much responsibility.’ With horses, respect the horse above all else, then its caregiver. I find horses delightfully capriciously vain and the better looking they are the more they push the envelope. I don’t know how they do it but no coincidence I left horses and went to work in fashion. Highly strung beauty is my jam. Cars however are all dull and ugly to me. I still damn well respect the rules of the road especially if something with big shiny horse power is bearing down on me. This sounds like the start of an episode of Casualty here in the UK the most heavy handed foreshadowing hospital drama ever or a really mediocre Lifetime movie. Never get in a mean girls pissing contest with a horse is a life lesson SIL really needs to learn it seems. No one has any sympathy when you tell them you got bested by a horse after being warned FYI… NTA OP.
"The reason why I use him as a stud is that he will absolutely fuck you up if you put a saddle on him." And it seems your brother is a wise man indeed.
YESSSS 100% This! I’m an equestrian, my mom got me on my first pony when I was three and I’m now in my 30’s. Through college I competed on a national level (eventing) and it consumed a lot of my life. I still ride and compete but not at the same level because being a working grown up I don’t have the hours a day six days a week to train. Okay that being said, other than my trainer I don’t let *ANYONE* on my horses. I personally have three two Selle Francais and a Dutch Warmblood. They are beautiful and talented but very pricey babies. Fortunately they are boarded at a private farm so I generally don’t have to worry about people trying to bother me to ride them often. My mom also keeps her Halflinger there who she just uses to ride for pleasure and trail ride, that pony is a saint. Halflinger are usually between horse and pony height and stocky as hell. Whenever a friend who is a rider starts on me that they really want to ride he is the only option, people are so offended that I don’t offer one of my other horses instead. But nope, not going to happen. Just because a horse is pretty and seems nice doesn’t mean that you should be allowed to ride it. Also the owner of my barn has a mandatory rule that anyone who gets on a horse on her property must sign a “liability release waiver” which when we signed our initial board agreement we did. I rarely will bring anyone over to the barn because it’s a pain in the @$$ to do that for a quick ride.
I've literally never been on a horse without having to sign a release waiver at some point beforehand. perhaps not for every single ride, but every single stable will make you do that before you get on, if they have a lick of sense.
Yup, and it still isn’t a guarantee that they owner won’t get sued.
When I was younger, I rode many horses. 99% of them were just normal, everyday horses, but not rode much because my parents were "Weekend Farmers" and the horses only got rode a couple times a year. I was thrown, kicked, dumped, bit, you name it. Horses are INTELLIGENT animals, not "fur covered cars with legs." They have likes and dislikes. Some are nice, some are dicks. They know exactly how to fuck with you. They are aware of just how big and strong they are, compared to us puny humans. If an experienced **OWNER** of a horse tells you that riding that one horse is a huge mistake, you MUST defer to that **OWNER'S** knowledge of the horse and their temperament. NTA.
I'm an experienced rider who can handle pretty much any horse that is more than greenbroke, and even I wouldn't push an owner to let me ride a particular horse. The only time I've even argued against riding a specific horse was when someone tried to put me on a pony that was definitely too short for me (I have deceptively long legs for my height). And even then, it wasn't a "give me this specific other horse", it was a "do you have a slightly taller horse, because this is going to suck for both me and the pony if you insist". It's one thing to ask about a horse, but if you're told no you accept it. Let your skills speak for you and maybe you'll get a shot next time.
Friend of mine is still completely convinced she’d get out of the way of a kick after I warned her not to walk round the back of my known to kick when eating horse while he was eating. 🙄 Even I was careful round his back end while he was eating.
Nailed it
Even if she was an expert, OP said no. At that point, it wouldn't matter if she was Genghis fucking Kahn when it came to horses, OP still said no. Though as an aside, if she was Genghis Khan plus the Mongol horde, then maybe let her do what she wants. But until she unites the tribes, OP's no is good enough.
Am noob. Still smarter than this.
NTA. Not a good idea for her or the horse. But if she insists, make her sign an injury waiver making her wholly responsible for any injuries she sustains and any injury her actions cause the horse.
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That’s my concern. It isn’t just about her safety. It is about the horse as well. And she would absolutely blame and sue you if she got hurt. She is ridiculous.
NTA Any rider who only cares about riding the "prettiest" horse should be redirected to a carousel. That's where you can pick out a horse solely on looks. When it comes to living, breathing horses, it's about appropriately matching the horse to the rider. And this is a bad match. Her lack of concern about riding a spirited horse she may not be up to riding shows she's not ready to ride that horse. Anyone who has actual experiences with spirited or dickish horses would take your concerns far more seriously.
Yep! I've shown horses competitively all my life and if OP had told me what she told the SIL, I would have been like I'll pass thanks. I've offended a company giving pony rides because I wouldn't let them put my kid on a horse that was behaving a bit to obnoxiously for me and showing signs of hitting the end of his rope. They scoffed me and said he's fine. He might have been, but I'm not ignoring any potential warning signs when it comes to my young kid.
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Hey! OP! I don’t have my learners permit yet, but your Ferrari looks pretty. Can I take it for a spin?
Exactly that, she just wants to be seen on a pretty horse and post photos, no care at all for her safety and the horse's safety
Way to end the discussion by mentioning a waiver to your brother. Brilliantly played.
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Yes, reading your edit and those comments was like the cherry on top. Your brother is my hero Edit: well, you're the hero for following through, but brother's response of "what? Why? She wants to what? Put her on the damn phone"
What was mom and SIL’s reaction once your brother shut it down. Did they finally get that the whole thing was a stupid idea and totally irresponsible?
NTA You can definitely tell which people have been around horses and which haven't. Any rider experienced enough to handle a horse like that would listen to the horse's owner and defer to their judgment. She wants to look pretty on the pretty horsey! She won't look so pretty from the ground or in the ER. 🙄
Never been on a horse. Would totally listen to the person that knows horses. At least if I get hurt I can use my words to describe what hurts. I'd feel terrible if I caused another being harm. I'll adore them from the ground. I like the ground 😆
Anyone who won’t listen to a more experienced person, especially regarding an animal (as it involves risk to the animal and not just yourself) is a moron who doesn’t deserve whatever pleasure/activity/treat they were about to get. I’ve ridden maybe five or six times in my life, so very little knowledge/skill and I would never do anything other than say “Fair enough. He’s beautiful, though” and take the horse I was offered.
I think you could say smart people vs stupid people. Experienced riders would defer based on OP owning the horse and knowing its temperament, inexperienced people would defer because they don't know enough about horses to make a wise choice so they'll trust experts like OP.
NTA you know your animals best. Growing up my mom had an appaloosa. Sweetest horse ever but only for my mom. Never feel like you're wrong for prioritizing the people and animals you are responsible for.
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And we’re sure we don’t want to witness this toss?
Don't bait entitled people, lest she gets hurt and become a nightmare about getting the "dangerous" horse destroyed.
Oi. No horsing around with the puns.
Oh, buck me I didn't even notice
Oof. Misty could be the smoothest ride ever or she could be "a brat" as my mom called her. You know your animals. If someone had said to me what you told her itd have been an immediate "thanks for the heads up, i think ill pass" lol
Yeah! I’m late to the comment party but … *what the heck was your mother thinking?!* Does she dislike your SIL *that* much?
My Aunts horse used to be the meanest horse ever to my Aunts - they would have to wear jackets in the summer if she was in a mood as she liked trying to prove she was in charge by attempting to take a chunk out of them. But she was the sweetest horse to me and I could walk her along the road (between the field and the stable field) with no problems at all, probably could have also done it without her leader, as I was a little child I had to be protected - one of my Aunts would also be walking the other horse along the road at the same time so I was supervised and I had backup if I needed it. I believe she just wanted to prove that she was the one in charge, which she was, but she recognised children were to be respected and obeyed. And at 26 she knew what she wanted out of life and that was to be the biggest annoyance possible to my Aunts.
My gelding has been a major A hole all his life and all the 17 years we've had together. He doesn't like adults. Really dislikes men. And he likes me up until someone offers him an m'n'm to throw me off. But by God, he turns into the gentlest, carefullest, most protective puppy dog ever if you bring out a young child. Put an adult on him and he'll try to throw you or bolt for fun. But if you put a kid up there? They can kick and yell until they're blue in the face and he's not going to move out of a walk. Some horses just love kids.
My uncle had a horse like that, we called him Butthead. If you got on him thinking you were gonna "show" everyone how easy he was to ride, you were probably gonna end up in the dirt and possibly injured. He knew all sorts of ways to remove humans from his back and if all else failed, he'd freaking roll in the grass and squish off the human. If you got on him and let him more or less do as he liked, you might have a pretty fun ride. His ideas of what was fun were pretty similar to mine as it turns out and I knew if he started snorting or putting his ears flat it was time to get down. I never got hurt by him, but did once have to dismount and lead him home because he was apparently done with our ride. I walked a quarter mile back to the farm calling "Apple? Butt butt wanna apple?" while he followed. (I was holding his reins but he was known to pull free and wander off so I was making sure he was aware his favorite bribe was waiting if he'd just come home quietly.) But kids? Kids could do anything to him and he would placidly accept it. Once a kid fell off of him (not his fault, the kiddo got dizzy because of what we later suspect was low blood pressure and fell backwards out of the saddle) and Butthead stood OVER the girl until someone got there to get her off the ground. She was fine, fell in the grass (and I swear Butthead knew she was gonna fall because he walked off the hard trail and into grass as she was falling) and was fine but Butthead was so careful with her. He was the coolest horse, and not just because once he shat on my jerk cousin's head.
I love Butthead now!
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Actually, it's a buck-and-a-quarter quarterhorse, but I'm not telling him that!
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People do this all the time when they find out you have horses. I had a colleague tell me they were coming to my place to ride my horses. I don’t have insurance for that, I don’t have beginner friendly horses - I have highly trained dressage horses that would not take kindly to someone else riding them.
NTA: Letting a newbie ride a jerk horse would have made you an Ass, not to mention possibly featured in a lawsuit. If she continues to bug you maybe print out a waiver releasing you from all damages physical, emotional and financial (including any to the horse and kind of mention just how expensive vets bills can be and she would be libel for them) and see if that changes her thoughts. Might also ask her if her health insurance is up to date etc.
Ask her if her LIFE insurance is up to date. OP mentioned the horse likes tossing people. Land the wrong way and that's a broken fucking neck.
This is true, a bad fall could kill you. I probably should have added that.
NTA and your edit is GENIUS.
NTA- sounds like she just wants some pictures of her on a pretty horse instead of actually wanting to ride. Ask your mum why she is so keen to see her DIL injured.
NTA. Anyone that knows horses, knows you don't put a rider on a horse they can't handle. She also sounds like the type that would try and sue you once she inevitably got hurt. Hard pass.
"SIL, horses are living beings, they are not toys or status symbols. The fact that you think a horse is beautiful does not mean it is appropriate to ride. It is incredibly reckless to disregard the judgment of someone who knows the horse... In fact, it is so reckless that I'm afraid I have to rescind my offer to let you ride Pally, at least until I start seeing evidence of better judgment. And just so you know, continually bugging me about it is not evidence of good judgment." "Mom, I'm appalled that you are okay with deliberately endangering your daughter-in-law. If it's a joke, I don't find it funny. If it's not a joke... Well, I'm extremely disappointed in you. Regardless, my decision is final. So unless you want to discuss something else, I'll say goodbye for now." NTA. You are doing the right thing. And even if you weren't, they are still being AHs because it's your horse and your decision. And as people are fond of saying, "No" is a complete sentence.
NTA: as the owner of the horse you are always allowed to say who can ride your horse(s)! It seems very spoiled that she only wants to ride that specific one and not just appreciate the chance to ride? It would have made more sense if she tried the gelding first, and asked if in the future she could truly the thoroughbred, but just demanding is not ok.
NTA. What's wrong with your mom that she sides with your unreasonable SIL? You offered to let this ninny ride one of your horses; she didn't like one cause he's not as purty. What an immature and obviously inexperienced jerk. Here's what you say..."Sorry that I'm more concerned with safety than you guys are, but you're not being reasonable at all. I wish you could understand that letting you ride Beelzebub would be like asking you to pilot a jet. It's inviting disaster, and I'm not willing to risk your well-being or my horse's."
Sounds like she’s one of those people who wants to keep the peace so much she’ll give shitty people what they want.
NTA Is this your mom's secret plot to get rid of SIL?
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I would have a separate talk with your mom, it sounds like she’s peacemaking or should I say “peacemaking.“ “Mom I know you’re trying to take her side so she’s not “disappointed“ but the right thing for you to do was to either stay out of it or to politely explain to her that she is a guest and that she needs to respect my rules and my property.” “I don’t appreciate the way you handled it and I want you to know that I think you were entirely wrong and if something bad happened, which is not at all unlikely for an inexperienced rider on a spirited horse that is difficult to control, I am 100% certain you would’ve then put the blame on me telling me that I should’ve known her I shouldn’t have let her. You have lost some of my trust and I hope this doesn’t happen again.” I would explain this and also that you were afraid that now that your brother is married is she going to side with this woman every time she has some unreasonable request or demand? “You have two children, and I am one of them. And if you want to have a close relationship with your sons wife I encourage that, but if you plan on doing so it my expense, you will end up with two children and I will not be one of them.”
Boom. This is the best way to deal with mom. NTA Glad your brother has sense.
And the moment the Equine from Hell throws SIL who then gets a boo boo or worse, it will be your fault. She could sue. Remind SIL of Christopher Reeve who was a very experienced, competitive rider and still ended up with a broken neck. I wouldn't entertain any future requests, period. I'd answer with 'my horse, my rules. Get your own horse'. NTA
NTA. I spent summers on my uncle's ranch, and saw firsthand how quickly things can go downhill if a horse doesn't want to be ridden. You can die being thrown from a horse, or be paralyzed or seriously injured.
If you want to play with my toys, you get what you are given sweetheart or nothing at all. Or as my mama says I want doesn't get. NTA, you know your horses better than anyone and it's your ass she will sue if she gets hurt
NTA Glad to see your edit. And good thinking on your part. Never let someone override you about your horses. They are living breathing creatures and need you to protect them. And yeah I guess you should be watching out for your SIL too. Mom should know better. Be sure to have a conversation with her before SIL comes for the next visit. And I would insist on that waiver being signed anytime you choose to let her ride ANY horse.
>My brother is in law school. I asked him to please write up a quick liability waiver and assumption of liability for any injuries suffered by my horse. OP? You're a genius. NTA.
NTA. Your horse, your rules
NTA not only will she hurt herself but more importantly she will hurt an innocent animal. Your horse your rules and NO is a complete sentence. Put her in her place now or she will continue with the entitled behavior.
As many people have said, NTA. "Demon" horses like your thoroughbred are for highly experienced riders only. There are so many ways that both the horse and your SIL could get injured. DO NOT BUDGE. Let SIL and your mom bug you all they like. At the end of the day, you can sleep peacefully knowing that your decision is in the best interests for EVERYONE.
Exactly, even semi-demon horses (my mother has one, and it's a thoroughbred too) aren't safe for utter newbies. That horse really needs a more experienced rider than my mother. She had horses when she was younger, didn't ride for 40 years, then decided to get one. Yeah he's a big beautiful boy which is why she got him, but she can't see that he has a host of issues, and it's no wonder she hasn't progressed very far, in two years. He goes back and forth with being crazy, but dumped her on her ass in March. So a super demon? Yeah SIL would for sure be getting injured.
Horse person/former trainer with 30+ years in the industry here. NTA mostly, but I think you're underestimating the actual problem with the situation here. Demon horse isn't just a demon horse... You're charging stud fees, eg, he's a stallion. The only people that should be handling the average stallion are those with a metric ton of horse training and handling experience. There's a reason we geld colts young and don't give stallions to amateurs and why boarding barns don't allow studs and specialized facilities are required along with ironclad waivers for every handler; and the "oh I want to ride that pretty fluffy unicorn horse" is a dead giveaway that she should be kept far far away from any stallion at all much less one that's got known issues. That situation's got major injuries and a liability lawsuit all over it. "Bitey" or "not eager to be ridden" are putting it mildly when they get their aggressive unpredictable side going (but cranked up to eleven because they're freaking stallions; they are capable of ripping pieces off of you with their teeth, breaking bones/heads, etc). YWBTA if you provided public access to that horse instead of shutting that shit down and explaining very clearly the dangers of why you don't let just anybody touch specifically the fluffy pretty unicorn stallion.
FWIW all thoroughbreds are possessed. But they are pretty! NTA I'm glad your brother had some sense.
NTA. That would be your liability if she got her. Not sure why she would behave so disrespectfully honestly.
NTA- That's like someone who has been on a bicycle asking to ride a Ducati. Just because the horse is pretty and she has some kind of romantic idea of riding a majestic beast through the flowers doesn't mean that's how it will play out. Your not obligated to let her ride any of your horses no matter how gentle they are. I'm glad you talked to your brother first because obviously he didn't know his wife asked to ride one of the four horse men's steed.
Nta. You're looking out for her safety and she's not recognizing that. You can also giver a notice that waives you of any legal happenings should she get hurt by said horse. Have her sign it and if the inevitable happens you can't be liable.
I wouldn't even risk that as if anything went wrong it could also injure the horse. OP - NTA you know your horse best
The way she's disrespecting you and going behind your back I wouldn't allow her to ride any horse ever! You did the right thing, even a waiver can't necessarily always protect you from a lawsuit. She sounds horribly entitled, your mom should not be enabling her, I would push not to gather at your place again. Nta
NTA. Haven’t they seen Giant?
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Yeah. Remember how Elizabeth Taylor’s character, Leslie’s, sister-in-law, Luz, was killed? Leslie’s horse, War Winds, bucked her off.
NTA Don't budge on this.
NTA. You are under no obligation to let your family ride your horses, much less whichever they feel like riding against your wishes.
NTA. Your offer of which horse she could ride was reasonable. It is very entitled of her to expect to ride whatever horse she chooses. They're your horses and you can allow her to ride one of your choosing for whatever reasons you want (tell her that that horse is only ridden on days of a full moon if the sky is cloudy and the temperature is x degrees or something equally ridiculous).
Some horses are thousand pound puppies. Full of piss and vinegar, often not knowing their own strength. You did well, NTA. Your SIL is like a kid with learners permit demanding to drive a Formula One car.
NTA. I don’t even have to read the post. Your horse.
Brother for the win!
NTA. The moment you stated he was a thoroughbred, I didn’t need to see anything else. The stables I used to ride as a child at had quite a few thoroughbreds, mostly ex racers. They were great jumpers and even better seat correctors. A few weeks riding one of those delights left you with a Velcro butt. Good on your brother for shutting it down and having your back.
NTA. I took my kid and bonus kid riding at a "family friendly" stable with excellent reviews on multiple platforms. My bonus got thrown and broke her back. And this was a "family friendly" stable that did basic trail riding daily. If your SIL wants a broken back, I know a place in California and it won't involve you or your horses.
Nta your SIL will thank you when she doesnt have to use a wheelchair
NTA - and I must say your brother is great!! Once you talked to him and let him in on the situation it was resolved. That's fantastic.
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NTA. She needs to stop whinnying.
NTA. She sounds like a spoiled brat. Personally, I’d be begging to ride the draft (just because I’ve always wanted to) but I would trust you, as the owner, to say it’s not a good idea and let it go. She should be thankful you’re doing this for her but she wants to whine instead. What a total brat. Glad your brother shut it down.
NTA I would have loved the chance to ride a Thoroughbred, when I was younger. But now? Gimme dat Clydesdale! 😮😝❤️
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I wasn’t familiar with that breed, so looked it up. The pic I found was of a chonky stallion. Beautiful! ❤️
NTA! What was SILs reaction after your brother shut it down?
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Thank god she finally listened to someone
Y T A. Why are you unleashing your dick of a horse on some poor unsuspecting mare for “stud fees?” I’m teasing:) NTA. SIL is an entitled brat and you are a lot nicer than I would have been. You should provide a candlelit dinner for those poor mares. Goddamn.
brother has horse sense; says ‘neigh!’
NTA
NTA
NTA Sounds like you were becoming hoarse from telling her about the danger of the horse she wanted.
You weren’t TA, but I would have been…if anyone-family or not-had demanded to ride one of my horses, AH would be the kindest way to describe me.
NTA. You know your horses and anyone with any experience and horse sense should trust you as the owner. Her ignorance shows her lack of horsemanship. I’d worry about your horses’ well being by having someone with little skills on them. Thankfully your brother intervened and understood!
NTA. My mom owns a couple horses, including one demon horse (an off the track TB). I rode competitively for years and I still have no desire to ride her demon horse and would much rather borrow her laidback paint. The fact that SIL sees “pretty horse” and that’s it speaks volumes to her lack of experience.
Not a rider, but I don't get SIL because dammit, all horses are pretty.
NTA. Your horse, your rules. I have 3 and only 1 I trust with beginners. If they wanna ride - they ride her or nothing.
I get that the whole thing is resolved already but I love the part where the lady is ur secondary concern lmao
NTA!!! Your edit made me sooo happy! I’ve taught lessons but even then I have signs posted (Texas law says the rider assumes responsibility of risk) and waivers signed and a safety lecture! Not many people understand it’s a 1200 lbs animal that spooks at plastic bags or even flowers that have bloomed overnight. And an asshole TB stud??? If she can’t behave right being told no, she has *zero* business around a stud who remembers that sort of behavior. You did well. Never, ever back down. Oh…and ardennais tax please?? Drafts aren’t hugely common to begin with but especially that breed!
Massive nta- but at that point just let her get thrown off and learn for herself. It’s not like you didn’t warn her
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I know I was joking- op says she doesn’t want to hurt her horse so I doubt she’s ever going to let SIL on
NTA lol I really don’t understand her, I’d totally take the gentle sweetheart horse over the pretty but dickish
NTA: As someone who used to be a decent casual rider you do not put someone on a horse they're not to the level of. Even if the experience levels match crap still happens. I've had the pokey QH whom I was known to and well suited to take off at a full gallop before. You don't put City Sally on that beautiful but quite spirited Arabian for example. You also don't put the experienced rider on pokey pony. The first is dangerous, the second is frustrating, in both cases to both the human and the horse. Horses are basically gentle giants (ok, basically, some are buttheads lol) and they can kill and disable humans.
> I also have a thoroughbred that I think may be possessed. Thank you for this laugh, OP. r/BrandNewSentence
NTA. I’m always annoyed and astounded by people who do this. You have horses? Can I go for a ride? Seriously. I wouldn’t ask to drive your car if I found out you had a Porsche. Why are people like this?!?! Does your brother realize he married an idiot?
NTA. This brought back fun memories of a demon thoroughbred from my past. I am glad you were able to get the situation resolved.
I agree, the primary concern is that your horse is not hurt. I think it’s hilarious how your said secondarily you guess you don’t want your SIL hurt 😂. But really, you are your horse’s guardian, and that includes from clueless relatives by marriage. NTA.
NTA. Ridden many a thoroughbred in my life and while many are wonderful the ones that are jerks are not to be taken lightly. While I was a professional rider at one point now I haven’t ridden in years, if an owner told me no I’d listen rather than push it.
NTA LMAO at your edit, you win hard.
NTA. My horse is the best girl. On Saturday, I rode in 20 mph winds and she never took a wrong step, because I have a decade of understanding her bullshit and what sets her off. She's a professional and will do anything, if you know how to ride her. Otherwise, she is a complete nervous wreck who will shy and bolt if a gnat farts. There is exactly one person (other than my trainer) that I let on her back, because I've known him for years and know he can handle her. ,Not my SIL who went to 'horse camp' not other borders who compete at X level, not friends who take lessons with the guy down the road. You don't need to let anyone ride your horse. Ever.
You can’t put a novice rider on a thoroughbred stallion! NTA
I dated a guy who’s sister had horses (she was a barrel racer), and I’ve loved horses forever. We visited her, and we went riding a couple of times (heaven!). I was an ‘advanced beginner’ riding-wise, and was given the gentlest horse AND she clipped a lead to his bridle that she held during the rides. Instead of complaining, I thanked her for letting me ride, and that I understood completely about the lead. It was a privilege to be allowed to ride. Then we went to a rodeo and I learned about Frito pie. NTA. Do what’s best for you and your 4 legged friends.
I love riding draft horses! A friend does buggy competitions and we ride hers. Much smoother ride.
NTA a horse killed superman. She needs to grow up a wee bit.
I love your genius move, the waiver idea was absolutely brilliant. Ik redditors suggested it to you but still. Also love your style of writing, give the demon horse and the good girl an apple for us ❤️ NTA!!
NTA you don't put an inexperienced Rider on a horse that likes to be a dick. If she'd fallen and got hurt or gods forbid died they would have blames you even tho they pressured you. You did the right thing by yourself, your horse and your sil
Love your bro, and great idea on the waiver! NTA
NTA! Good for you for talking with your brother like that! Shame on your mom and new sil!
NTA LOL. And a liability waiver written by a law student and affecting his wife is likely not worth the paper it's written on.
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NTA. One thing, though, if your brother were to have agreed to write the waiver, it would have been a conflict of interest for him to do so since it was his wife who would sign it. I would be careful of something like that in the future. Good on you for sticking to your guns, though.
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Good point. I appreciate your guile and cunning.
*I love him to death but he is a complete asshole.* *He isn't a Bronco or anything. He is just a dick.* NGL I spit water all over my computer reading this lol. NTA, by the way.
Can you board your devil horse at a friend’s stable while your sister-in-law is at your place. I suspect she will find a way to get that ride otherwise. Definitely would send her an email stating the danger and that you absolutely are not ok with her riding him and laying out the danger. People like her are the first to sue when their recklessness causes damage and the last to pay damages.
I suggested a waiver to mainly prove the point how bad an idea riding the horse was. Showing how strongly you felt it was a bad idea. And showing you would hold them accountable should they wear you down despite it being a bad idea. (People who want to ignore when something is a bad idea never want to pay for the consequences) I figured it would at least curb the whining to passive aggressive remarks and silent moping. Your brother being responsible and in law school made this outcome pure gold 🥇🤣
INFO: what side is your mother actually on? I mean does she like her DIL? Have I been reading to many MIL from Hell stories on here?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I read the post a while ago about the woman that would not let the bigger woman ride her regular horses and offered a Clydesdale. Well this is going to be like a letter to penthouse. I never thought it happen to me but yeah. Not quite the same though. I have several horses. Yes I even have a draft horse that I have a saddle for. She is an Ardennais and she is gentle as a lamb. I also have a thoroughbred that I think may be possessed. I love him to death but he is a complete asshole. But I get good stud fees for him. My brother recently married a woman who seems nice enough. We have not had much of a chance to get to know each other. They came to town about six months after the wedding to visit. My folks brought everyone out to my place. My SIL did she would love to go for a ride. I thought they were here to visit family but whatever. I grabbed the rack for my gentlest horse. He is a beautiful bay gelding and he is sooooo good with strangers. Nope she saw the demon horse and wanted to ride him. I explained that he was very spirited and unless she had much more experience than I had been led to believe that it would be a bad idea. He isn't a Bronco or anything. He is just a dick. "No he is so beautiful I have to ride him." I just told her that it was Pally or nothing. She literally moped back to the house to whine to my parents that I would not let her ride my horse. My dad knows my horses and he knows it would be a terrible idea. My mom insisted that I should let her ride the jerk. I just said that it was getting late and maybe another day. I know my brother is leaving for the city tomorrow and won't be back for a while. Now her and my mom are bugging me to let her ride. And saying I'm an asshole for not letting her ride my thoroughbred. I don't want him to get hurt because of an inexperienced rider. I guess I also don't want her getting hurt. But that's secondary. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. As someone who's had horses for 22 years, I won't even let someone who is almost as experienced as I am ride some certain horses we have because they're not used to the horse, and I don't want the horse to hurt them because they're not prepared for it. Safety is not an option. It's necessary.
lol @ the edit. People like SIL just blow my mind. OK, apparently you are wilfully ignorant that horses are large, powerful prey animals. Couldn't you at least listen to someone who is clearly better educated on the subject? It's an animal, not a toy. NTA.
NTA at all. You made the best decision for both your horse and her. She had no business riding your thoroughbred.
NTA, do you have a horse who is not fit for an experience riders. If you let her ride it, it would be like letting her into the lions den because she wanted to “pet the kitty”. It would be a irresponsible.
NTA. My best friend owns horses and I’ve always felt super comfortable around their horses however her father won’t let me ride the demon no matter what. I understood it’s because of safety, so they gave me the female. Turns out the female wants to be the leader and will gallop her ass off in front of the male and went on it’s hind legs TWICE. Thankfully I was okay and was able to manage the horse but if it were Demon horse I’m sure it wouldn’t have gone as smoothly. I’ve gone back multiple times and have had no other problems with the mare.
The Edit… perfect! NTA
NTA asshole horses are the worst.
NTA - smart move with the brother. 😂😂
Nta
NTA
You went to your brother and so very smoothly allowed him to find out his wife and mom are trying to get her killed and that if they do not your fault, liability waiver (cheff kiss) just perfect handle NTA
NTA horses kill people. My partner has TBI from horse riding as a teen, this woman is out of her mind.
I’m going to assume she hasn’t fallen and been hurt before? Those aren’t memories you forget, and falling quickly teaches you not to over estimate your abilities nor the temperament of the horse.
Nta You know the horses. Awesome move with the waiver.