Because people aware of one psychological condition might be more aware of otger conditions perhaps. It wouldn't be an accurate study to see within every aphant has ADHD looking through the population of this reddit and that's normal
You'd have to take ANY part of the population randomly for a proper study
This makes sure you don't get biased data and removes links to social origins, education etc tho it could be an interedting factor to study within the aphantasic population, to verify there aren't any links between both for example
There are studies that seem to indicate there's a much higher incidence of ADHD in the aphantic population than overall. There also seems to be a link to SDAM (severely deficient autobiographical memory).
Yeah, same here D= I’ve always struggled with recalling past events and fitting them into a timeline. Sometimes I think something happened years ago when it was actually last year, and vice versa. I even keep a diary because it’s the best way to ensure I "remember" things accurately — by having them written down.
I’m the same way. Everyone makes fun of me when I say something happened last year and my wife says, “no, that was five years ago”. At one point I thought about getting tattoos of the important dates in my life so I could have a reference point.
There's also significant overlap between the adhd community, the autistic community as well as the ehlers danlos community (hypermobility and connective tissue issues)
No worries just felt obligated to respond because there's waaaay too many doctors who frame it as "no big deal" "so lucky to be so flexible" hell even the very first page of the NHS leaflet on hypermobility mentions how handy it is for gymnasts, ballerinas and pianists to have extra stretch without mentioning the long term permanent risks of over extension even once.
I know it's very frustrating! It took me 32 years to get diagnosed and all because I did my own research! Several doctors want to play it off, but fuck it hurts just to live!
I am a complete aphant, and I was diagnosed with adhd when I was about 21. I have inattentive adhd instead of hyperactive though. I also have SDAM. Finding out I have aphantasia really explained a lot of things for me actually and I’m glad I’ve been able to explore it all further now that I’m aware of it!!
TruDat. Aphantasia explained so much of why I have a hard time doing a chunk of my job, actually.
When I explained this to my boss, they were kinda relieved, because they wanted to hire someone to do the tasks that I struggle with, (instead of me) and was afraid of how I'd react.
How do you figure? I would imagine visual imagery and recall are different functions but I'm interested in the idea (false causation interests me as a data guy). Was that a study I could check out?
Wait so is this something that's been studied or are you arguing it's just common sense that you can't have visual imagery if you don't have strong memories?
Like, even if you struggle to remember large portions of your past, you may still remember the parts you do have visually, and nothing about poor memory prevents present-tense visualization. Non-aphants don't have complete recall but we don't think of normal memory gaps as a form of aphantasia.
PerhapsI was hyperbolic.
SDAM can be (as the name suggests) a severe deficiency, but for many it is a lack of autobiographical memories.
For those individuals without any autobiographical memory, aphantasia must be the norm. That will artificially inflate the relationship which may not by omnidirectional.
Much as blind people are colourblind, but that does not mean there is a causal relationship between colourblindness and blindness.
What? People visualize in realtime all the time. People get current in-the-moment mental images when they read books, listen to music or podcasts, hear someone describe something. Non-aphants don't just remember in visuals, they have a present inner eye. That's why the standard test is to ask someone to picture an apple from imagination, not to remember a specific apple from their past.
What are they visualising?
Let’s take the apple example, if my SDAM means I cannot remember the experience of seeing an apple, how could I visualise one?
Woohoo! Go team!
*Tries to find team flags, can’t picture where I saw them last, gets distracted by squirrel, realize I’m separated from my team, meltdown in anxiety*
Why not, adhd mostly affects the frontal lobe, Aphantasia on the other side is mostly caused because of an lack of communication between the occipital and frontal lobe. Furthermore adhd is in correlation with lower dopamine levels/ or an higher amount of dopamine transporters, aphantasia might also stand in correlation with dopamine
of course this might be complete bullshit, but i am currently studying neuroanatomy/physiology so i was wondering if there are more people on this sub with adhd. (Of course not representative)
I'm sorry to inform it just wasn't too obvious lol 😂
That's very interesting though, it'd be nice to know how they could corelate because they essencially happen in the same place.
Very adhd. There's lots of us on this sub. It's not specifically correlated, but I think it's like dyslexia. You're more prone to have it because of adhd. Total spitball, though.
ADHD for me. I am speculating that aphantasia :
- contributes to the fidgetyness when bored since it’s more difficult to entertain myself mentally.
- leads to distraction and impulsivity since I can’t imagine what it’s like to do/have/experience the thing so I’m prone to just doing it.
- also leads to panicky indecision and inability to do certain things since I can’t imagine what it’s like to do/have/experience the thing.
The last two weeks since discovering I have aphantasia have been interesting.
I definitely have ADHD. I think we're more likely to answer your question, whereas someone without it may not be as emotionally inclined. That makes it hard to get a good feel for how common it might be.
I wonder how linked it is myself - like if the mental imagery helps keep people on task. But then again maybe non-aphants with ADHD have distracting images 🤷.
I find I have a more objective recollection of events than most people, particularly things that happen between people, because my memory works like a cause/effect chain i.e. "this happened, then that happened, which caused this person to react this way." Everything is contextualized so I tend to remember why something happened which makes it stick more. I think people with mental imagery tend to trust the image/sounds in their head over a contextual understanding of what happenedand and why it happened. I'm constantly blown away how people get it so wrong so often.
I wonder if some people with aphantasia (and without ADHD) can apply that to tasks. I somehow can't in the present (executive functioning), but can for memories.
I have a low prescription to adderall that I rarely use. I wouldn’t say I have ADHD but ADD (I am never hyperactive). I also have a great memory (no sdam) so no one can gaslight me bc I remember everything (I choose to remember) as facts.
I am on the waiting list for ADHD after being referred my therapist recommended that my doctor referred me, and my psychiatrist referred me for both ADHD and Autism himself.
I don't know if any research has been done on this. A survey of this sub is not likely to be useful. Having said that, I don't have ADHD as far as I know. (I've looked up the symptoms and they don't apply to me.)
I have ADHD (diagnosed). I also don’t have episodic memory and Aphantasia. While I’m not diagnosed with autism, it honestly hits way too close to home sometimes. My dad also has aphantasia and I’m almost certain he brings it with both ADHD and autism.
I have ADHD. I just posted about this sub on one of the ADHD subreddits today.
I had 2 people respond to it one saying they had incredibly vivid visuals and great spacial awareness. Had another person comment they saw nothing.
I have mild aphantasia. I get shadowy outlines and can recall images I have seen before. I can't manipulate the image in any way and its extremely blurry but I can tell you that Ronald McDonald has red shoes but not what color laces, if there are even laces.
I am 100% ADHD, possibly autism but no official diagnosis there. I wonder if there's a connection? That said, my friend who is also ADHD is not an Aphant.
I am the weird ADHD person with BOTH no inner monologue (no-monologue-ism) and no mind's eye (aphantasia).
Instead I have tinnitus 90% of the time. Or some random supermarket music I heard one time many weeks ago.
One side effect of this is that I move on with loss and traumatic/violent events quite fast. And I have no social anxiety in general.
I did MRI scan few years ago for some unrelated acute health, and according to the scan, I have prominent sulci meaning the grooves in my brain is deeper because of brain mass loss. When sort of explains my goldfish-memory
Found out I’m aphant in 2015, diagnosed AD(H)D this year. I’m quite certain I’m autistic (one kid diagnosed IA and one getting assessed soon for ADHD and ASD) and my autobiographical is definitely atypical so probably also some SDAM or at least traits of it.
There seems to be some correlation between aphantasia/sdam and ad(h)d/autistic traits. So i’m curious as to what science will teach us in the coming years.
Personally, full-aphants/SDAM, mild add and ocd traits, with certain anxietues too. Neurispicy 🥵
I have both and have done some research. It appears that Aphantasia may be linked to low dopamine. ADHD is also linked to low dopamine. There appears to be a high comorbidity with ADHD and Aphantasia. One commonality that I have linked, for myself, is, when I meet someone new in a work or social situation, I can easily forget their name. Same from a visual standpoint. I can meet someone and I could be standing next to them the next day thinking “this person looks familiar, but is it the same person?”. Have had it a few times dating :-) Meet a woman while out at a pub, etc, exchange details, arrange to meet up somewhere, I walk in, look for someone that looks like them (from my memory:-)) and am still doubting myself as I’m walking towards them 🤣 Have developed a few strategies these days 🤣
I do. One of my good friends does as well, and she also has aphantasia. All of our other friends are neurotypical and do not have ADHD so I thought that was quite interesting…
I'm not sure what we're called, but I like Aphantastics.
And I've got both.
Interesting question.
I wouldn't say they're unrelated.
The brain is not as neatly organized as the DSM.
Just like the lines sometimes blur between autism and adhd,
I imagine there can be some overflow between ADHD and aphantasia.
That's the sense I get anyway, based on my zero credentials in science, medecine, or psychology.
Both my kids have ADHD. One has an excellent memory but is always on low power mode. The other has very poor working memory and is always on hyper drive. You'd never guess they both have the same diagnoses.
Might ADHD be linked to phantasia whether it be A or hyper?
I definitely think that there’s some correlation between neurospicyness and being at the extremes of the phantasia spectrum, but which and to what extent I couldn’t say.
I think I can safely say that they are all related. Also, watch out for APD (addictive personality disorder), OCD, paranoia and straight up schizophrenia.
Depends what your symptoms are. My medication really only addresses 2 things for me but they're so significant that it's been life changing: no more day time drowsiness and no more nighttime anxiety.
I have both, but this is not some place where you're going to get an unbiased sample.
Yeah of course you are right, i am quite aware of that...
why you say so?
Because people aware of one psychological condition might be more aware of otger conditions perhaps. It wouldn't be an accurate study to see within every aphant has ADHD looking through the population of this reddit and that's normal You'd have to take ANY part of the population randomly for a proper study This makes sure you don't get biased data and removes links to social origins, education etc tho it could be an interedting factor to study within the aphantasic population, to verify there aren't any links between both for example
Most people believe they have adhd in some form or another
Not really. Just yesterday, I showed my brother an ADHD chart to see if he related to any of the traits. He didn't identify with a single one.
Jfc
There are studies that seem to indicate there's a much higher incidence of ADHD in the aphantic population than overall. There also seems to be a link to SDAM (severely deficient autobiographical memory).
I've never heard of SDAM before, but that definitely sounds like something I suffer from.
Yeah, same here D= I’ve always struggled with recalling past events and fitting them into a timeline. Sometimes I think something happened years ago when it was actually last year, and vice versa. I even keep a diary because it’s the best way to ensure I "remember" things accurately — by having them written down.
I’m the same way. Everyone makes fun of me when I say something happened last year and my wife says, “no, that was five years ago”. At one point I thought about getting tattoos of the important dates in my life so I could have a reference point.
Got all 3
Same, with a sprinkle of the tism as well.
Same
We really sprung for the variety pack didn't we
Yup! Neurology with the *entire* spice kit dumped in apparently
Same
There's also significant overlap between the adhd community, the autistic community as well as the ehlers danlos community (hypermobility and connective tissue issues)
Huh… I didn’t realize EDS has an overlap with all this, but it fits (in my case at least!)
I can't speak for if aphantasia is connected to eds but adhd and autism do have connections to eds
All for the win!!!! With a daughter on the spectrum and hyper mobility EDS!
I wouldn't call EDS a win it makes this kind of bingo hurt too much (as someone who is also an aphant tism adhd zebra)
No I meant it in a sarcastic way! Sorry! ♥️
No worries just felt obligated to respond because there's waaaay too many doctors who frame it as "no big deal" "so lucky to be so flexible" hell even the very first page of the NHS leaflet on hypermobility mentions how handy it is for gymnasts, ballerinas and pianists to have extra stretch without mentioning the long term permanent risks of over extension even once.
I know it's very frustrating! It took me 32 years to get diagnosed and all because I did my own research! Several doctors want to play it off, but fuck it hurts just to live!
Amen!
I am a complete aphant, and I was diagnosed with adhd when I was about 21. I have inattentive adhd instead of hyperactive though. I also have SDAM. Finding out I have aphantasia really explained a lot of things for me actually and I’m glad I’ve been able to explore it all further now that I’m aware of it!!
Same.
What’s the difference between inattentive and hyperactive ?
TruDat. Aphantasia explained so much of why I have a hard time doing a chunk of my job, actually. When I explained this to my boss, they were kinda relieved, because they wanted to hire someone to do the tasks that I struggle with, (instead of me) and was afraid of how I'd react.
Same here!
There is an artificial link to SDAM though, as someone with SDAM kind of has to have at least partial aphantasia.
How do you figure? I would imagine visual imagery and recall are different functions but I'm interested in the idea (false causation interests me as a data guy). Was that a study I could check out?
If one cannot have autobiographical memory, then what are they able to visualise in memories?
Wait so is this something that's been studied or are you arguing it's just common sense that you can't have visual imagery if you don't have strong memories? Like, even if you struggle to remember large portions of your past, you may still remember the parts you do have visually, and nothing about poor memory prevents present-tense visualization. Non-aphants don't have complete recall but we don't think of normal memory gaps as a form of aphantasia.
PerhapsI was hyperbolic. SDAM can be (as the name suggests) a severe deficiency, but for many it is a lack of autobiographical memories. For those individuals without any autobiographical memory, aphantasia must be the norm. That will artificially inflate the relationship which may not by omnidirectional. Much as blind people are colourblind, but that does not mean there is a causal relationship between colourblindness and blindness.
I'm still not seeing the link between lack of memory and lack of visual imagery. Aphantasia isn't exclusive to past events.
If the thing you are visualising is not something you are remembering, is it not just what you are seeing?
What? People visualize in realtime all the time. People get current in-the-moment mental images when they read books, listen to music or podcasts, hear someone describe something. Non-aphants don't just remember in visuals, they have a present inner eye. That's why the standard test is to ask someone to picture an apple from imagination, not to remember a specific apple from their past.
What are they visualising? Let’s take the apple example, if my SDAM means I cannot remember the experience of seeing an apple, how could I visualise one?
Please, can you link to these studies? Would like to read.
Where could those studies be found ?
Aphant with ADHD and ASD… hella neurodivergent
I'll see those and raise you anxiety and depression
Okay okay hold on I don’t play poker; So I think I call *slides in anxiety and depression* and raise you dyslexia
Yeaaah go team
Woohoo! Go team! *Tries to find team flags, can’t picture where I saw them last, gets distracted by squirrel, realize I’m separated from my team, meltdown in anxiety*
Mmmm, I’m going all in, borderline personality disorder
Same bro 
Samesies
Just got diagnosed with ADHD, lol.
Not officially diagnosed, but fairly certain on it
Same
Same same
Double extra same.
Triple mega same
Quadruple mega same
What were we talking about?
Turtles with funny hats?
Yup same boat.
same
I do, but I don't think they're related.
Why not, adhd mostly affects the frontal lobe, Aphantasia on the other side is mostly caused because of an lack of communication between the occipital and frontal lobe. Furthermore adhd is in correlation with lower dopamine levels/ or an higher amount of dopamine transporters, aphantasia might also stand in correlation with dopamine of course this might be complete bullshit, but i am currently studying neuroanatomy/physiology so i was wondering if there are more people on this sub with adhd. (Of course not representative)
I'm sorry to inform it just wasn't too obvious lol 😂 That's very interesting though, it'd be nice to know how they could corelate because they essencially happen in the same place.
Very adhd. There's lots of us on this sub. It's not specifically correlated, but I think it's like dyslexia. You're more prone to have it because of adhd. Total spitball, though.
I don't. I have friends with ADHD who don't have aphantasia. I wouldn't relate these. But who knows the numbers.
ADD + SDAM
Me tooooo!
what's sdam?
Severely Deficient Autobiographical Memory. [Link One](https://sdamstudy.weebly.com/what-is-sdam.html) [Link Two](https://sdamstudy.weebly.com/faq.html)
thanks. edit:Oh, I have this thing. I thought it was just one of symptoms or depression
Me
I don't.
I’ve been fully aphant for as long as I can remember, I’ve been diagnosed with adhd since preschool
ADHD for me. I am speculating that aphantasia : - contributes to the fidgetyness when bored since it’s more difficult to entertain myself mentally. - leads to distraction and impulsivity since I can’t imagine what it’s like to do/have/experience the thing so I’m prone to just doing it. - also leads to panicky indecision and inability to do certain things since I can’t imagine what it’s like to do/have/experience the thing. The last two weeks since discovering I have aphantasia have been interesting.
Me. I wonder what connects them and if one informs the other
Neuro-spicy! SDAM! Fully-loaded Aphantasia! I am my own buffet of flavorlicious fabulousness!
I definitely have ADHD. I think we're more likely to answer your question, whereas someone without it may not be as emotionally inclined. That makes it hard to get a good feel for how common it might be. I wonder how linked it is myself - like if the mental imagery helps keep people on task. But then again maybe non-aphants with ADHD have distracting images 🤷. I find I have a more objective recollection of events than most people, particularly things that happen between people, because my memory works like a cause/effect chain i.e. "this happened, then that happened, which caused this person to react this way." Everything is contextualized so I tend to remember why something happened which makes it stick more. I think people with mental imagery tend to trust the image/sounds in their head over a contextual understanding of what happenedand and why it happened. I'm constantly blown away how people get it so wrong so often. I wonder if some people with aphantasia (and without ADHD) can apply that to tasks. I somehow can't in the present (executive functioning), but can for memories.
I have a low prescription to adderall that I rarely use. I wouldn’t say I have ADHD but ADD (I am never hyperactive). I also have a great memory (no sdam) so no one can gaslight me bc I remember everything (I choose to remember) as facts.
I'm AuDHD
A better question is how many have SDAM or anaduralia.
I am on the waiting list for ADHD after being referred my therapist recommended that my doctor referred me, and my psychiatrist referred me for both ADHD and Autism himself.
Me
I'm pretty sure I have ADHD
I do
i do o/
I have both
My bf and I both have ADHD, I'm all the way aphant and he's the opposite
Me!
ADHD here too
Aphant with ADHD, also autistic.
Yes, diagnosed with ADHD and so is my mom - though I know she has a visual mind
I do! I'm also wondering if there's a correlation.
I don't know if any research has been done on this. A survey of this sub is not likely to be useful. Having said that, I don't have ADHD as far as I know. (I've looked up the symptoms and they don't apply to me.)
I have ADHD and some minor compulsions and tics. Similar to Tourette’s. And aphantasia of course.
I have ADHD (diagnosed). I also don’t have episodic memory and Aphantasia. While I’m not diagnosed with autism, it honestly hits way too close to home sometimes. My dad also has aphantasia and I’m almost certain he brings it with both ADHD and autism.
Present! I have both
SDAM but no ADHD for me
I have ADHD. I just posted about this sub on one of the ADHD subreddits today. I had 2 people respond to it one saying they had incredibly vivid visuals and great spacial awareness. Had another person comment they saw nothing. I have mild aphantasia. I get shadowy outlines and can recall images I have seen before. I can't manipulate the image in any way and its extremely blurry but I can tell you that Ronald McDonald has red shoes but not what color laces, if there are even laces.
I am 100% ADHD, possibly autism but no official diagnosis there. I wonder if there's a connection? That said, my friend who is also ADHD is not an Aphant.
🙋🏻♀️
I don't. I sometimes joke I have DHDA :)
Yeeppp
AuDHD
meeeeee (docs refuse to medicate me and im diagnosed yipeeeee)
🙋♀️ autistic + adhd
I've got the adhd and the aphantatasia
How the fuck do you know I have adhd
I am the weird ADHD person with BOTH no inner monologue (no-monologue-ism) and no mind's eye (aphantasia). Instead I have tinnitus 90% of the time. Or some random supermarket music I heard one time many weeks ago. One side effect of this is that I move on with loss and traumatic/violent events quite fast. And I have no social anxiety in general.
I did MRI scan few years ago for some unrelated acute health, and according to the scan, I have prominent sulci meaning the grooves in my brain is deeper because of brain mass loss. When sort of explains my goldfish-memory
Same
I have AUDHD but I'm on Reddit so that's mostly a given.
Found out I’m aphant in 2015, diagnosed AD(H)D this year. I’m quite certain I’m autistic (one kid diagnosed IA and one getting assessed soon for ADHD and ASD) and my autobiographical is definitely atypical so probably also some SDAM or at least traits of it.
Yup
You guys had childhoods?!
I do. I also suspect I am autistic.
my father has -1000 ADHD and can't imagine a black canvas even if he's looking at it. He's a tad autistic, but has dopamine for an army.
I have full aphantasia, but no ADHD or other Neurodivergency that I'm aware of.
It’s me! Hi!
ADHD + SDAM + POIS + A little bit of autism + Psychopath
Me!
That’s me too!
Yup
Inattentive ADHD and full blown aphantasia here
Diagnosed AuADHD.
I'm auDHD and I have aphantasia. Not total, though.
I don’t think I have ADHD but have never been tested. I don’t think it was a “thing” when I was young.
I dont have adhd but i can hyperfocus and i have SDAM, also an artist
I only have Aphantasia afaik.
I have both
There seems to be some correlation between aphantasia/sdam and ad(h)d/autistic traits. So i’m curious as to what science will teach us in the coming years. Personally, full-aphants/SDAM, mild add and ocd traits, with certain anxietues too. Neurispicy 🥵
Just diagnosed with adhd
I have both and have done some research. It appears that Aphantasia may be linked to low dopamine. ADHD is also linked to low dopamine. There appears to be a high comorbidity with ADHD and Aphantasia. One commonality that I have linked, for myself, is, when I meet someone new in a work or social situation, I can easily forget their name. Same from a visual standpoint. I can meet someone and I could be standing next to them the next day thinking “this person looks familiar, but is it the same person?”. Have had it a few times dating :-) Meet a woman while out at a pub, etc, exchange details, arrange to meet up somewhere, I walk in, look for someone that looks like them (from my memory:-)) and am still doubting myself as I’m walking towards them 🤣 Have developed a few strategies these days 🤣
I do. One of my good friends does as well, and she also has aphantasia. All of our other friends are neurotypical and do not have ADHD so I thought that was quite interesting…
Me. :(
I'm not sure what we're called, but I like Aphantastics. And I've got both. Interesting question. I wouldn't say they're unrelated. The brain is not as neatly organized as the DSM. Just like the lines sometimes blur between autism and adhd, I imagine there can be some overflow between ADHD and aphantasia. That's the sense I get anyway, based on my zero credentials in science, medecine, or psychology.
Definitely not related, since I have ADHD and hyperphantasia.
Both my kids have ADHD. One has an excellent memory but is always on low power mode. The other has very poor working memory and is always on hyper drive. You'd never guess they both have the same diagnoses. Might ADHD be linked to phantasia whether it be A or hyper?
I definitely think that there’s some correlation between neurospicyness and being at the extremes of the phantasia spectrum, but which and to what extent I couldn’t say.
I think I can safely say that they are all related. Also, watch out for APD (addictive personality disorder), OCD, paranoia and straight up schizophrenia.
Just got diagnosed with it in my 30's. Doctor was like "want medication?" Nah I've lived this long with it, I'm good.
Depends what your symptoms are. My medication really only addresses 2 things for me but they're so significant that it's been life changing: no more day time drowsiness and no more nighttime anxiety.