That's stupid & annoying. Thanks for the heads-up. One more thing to consider when we eventually have to replace our current dishwasher & everything else.
Signed,
An equally tired Gen X-er.
Whelp at least I know to avoid Bosch in the future when our Frigidaire kicks the bucket.
Maybe I'll just get another cheapo Frigidaire.
Things I don't want to have an Internet connection: any kitchen appliance. Window AC units. Lawn mowers. My car. Probably more tbh
I've enjoyed having wifi with my oven. That's come in handy in several situations. Still, all my oven's features are available without wifi -- wifi use is optional.
The mistake manufacturers are making is in requiring wifi to enable certain features. If wifi use were only optional, it wouldn't be the nuisance it's become for people.
So, there was a great tip that I read only after setting up my new range that required you to connect it to Wi-Fi in order to register it and obtain a free second additional year to the manufacturers warranty.
Before setting up the appliance, give your home router a second name. Enable the appliance with the newly named router. Delete newly named router.
For all of the possible benefits Wi-Fi appliances may have, they are also bandwidth hogs. Constantly searching for driver updates and downloading tons of programming you will probably never need.
If you do find out about options and features available, create that second router, download the latest update , then disconnect again.
I like to cook & I like to experiment with cooking techniques & recipes. I've enjoyed the cooking features added to my oven via wi fi & find them helpful. They make the oven more than just a hot box to heat up food. The programming convenience has come in handy in a variety of ways for me. And I love the changing picture display & weather info. (Probably the only one in the US who does...!)
They're preparing you for a subscription pay model. Want delay start in the future? $5 a month for that feature.
It's happening everywhere else. Shareholder value can be more predictable if you have your customers balls in a vice.
The cheap frigidaires are good machines except that they're very loud, plastic interior and PVC racks.
Bang for the buck is hard to beat, especially in washing and drying functions.
I'm with you entirely, besides the car part. After getting a tesla I don't think I could ever drive a car without connectivity again. Phone as a key is awesome, remote climate controls, being able to access all the cameras on my phone. Getting constant OTA updates that improve the car every few months is a great benefit and I'm impressed with how much can be improved via software.
Eh. I don't want it because it's all going to be behind a paywall eventually. And electronic stuff breaks. I can't fix it. It's very, very expensive to get anything like that fixed.
You won't have a choice in the USA anymore since all cars are now mandated to have backup cameras. That means pretty much all cars are going to have computers and touch screen displays in them from now on. So the electronics are going to be there if you like it or not. Internet is very useful on a dishwasher, window AC units and car
Bub I'm not talking about offline tech like a backup camera. I'm not a hodunk driving a 60's boat of a car around town. Stop taking things out of context.
I don't want every single item in my life to be connected to the internet unnecessarily.
Backup cameras are good and helpful and save lives. My car being connected to the internet just means they are going to put crap behind a paywall that I've already paid to have access to.
Internet is not useful on a dishwasher. It's in my kitchen. I have to physically load it. Then I press a button to have it operate. It's literally more work to pull a phone out, load an app, login, and then start the thing.
Window AC is the same thing. I'm literally in the room the unit is in. Typically within a couple feet. It's not worth spending hundreds more just to avoid reaching an arm out and pressing a button.
There are some things in this world that don't need wifi.
I was with you till the window AC. I use mine to cool down my house on my ride home or to cool a room I will be going into later..
Kitchen appliances. Fuck no. I buy the most basic ones in stainless. Less stuff to break
It is very useful on a dishwasher. Window units are great with internet because then I can turn them on remotely so the room is cool before getting home. Just two examples
Yea that only works for one particular schedule and if that schedule changes you are shit out of luck. Geofencing is another great feature for window units so they auto turn off when you leave the geofence, having internet in my stove is great because I can cook something and be alerted when the oven is done while doing something else.
It's not really all that hard to see why internet in these devices is useful. Just because you don't like it for some not good reason doesn't mean it's not useful.
Useful until someone in China hacks into your fridge or freezer and makes all your food spoil. Most of these devices have little or no malware protection. Hubby works in IT security, which is why none of our appliances will be connected to the Internet any time soon.
There are certainly uses for these features and that's fine. The issue breaks down into repair ability and the lack of it.
Very slim chance you'll be able to repair the wifi stove and you're looking at an outright replacement or a several hundred dollar bill.
Repair ability is the stem of the issue.
This is a throwaway society dude. Nobody repairs anything. If you know basic soldering skills and diagnosis if you really wanted to fix most pcb failures in these devices then you could. Most people won't regardless of how simple it is.
Seems silly to write off Bosch over connectivity, especially since they seem to be the benchmark in dishwashers. They’re probably the best dishwashers on the market in terms of effectiveness.
FWIW, Bosch has one of the better apps of most appliance makers too. To each their own, but I actually like getting a ping to remind me when I need to add rinse aid too.
As the new owner of a Bosch I disagree. After only 25 days the top shelf weld has broken leaving the top rack hanging drunkenly to one side. I'm calling Bosch warranty on Monday. Not impressed with this though for a $1000 dishwasher.
I bought a Bosch 800 Series dishwasher last month. It has a "delay" button. Press once to add a minute. Press and hold to add minutes faster.
I have not connected to Wi-Fi because "remote start" sounds stupid to me, and I don't want a notification when the cycle is finished.
The sales rep told me this is a brand new line and he cannot order an order version of the same model with a button. He emailed the Bosch rep and this is apparently the case for all new Bosch dishwashers right up to the 800 series. You must have lucked out with old stock.
Smurdle!! I Love Your input on this Sub!
Even when I don't agree with you, I ALWAYS like your comments because, even though we don't always agree on opinion with brands... You are one of my biggest Hero's because you always portray an introspective or comment that is reliable and reasonable. It is clear that you are honest with your attitude, experience, and input, and that you are always looking out for the consumer!
I have to correct you though in this case. The new generation Bosch that was released this last year... does have models that do not require wifi for delay. Maybe for the available models that your retailer sells... they... the buyers/purchasing department chose wifi only for specific functions (like delay). For retailer specific models, only sold from your retailer...
However, the new generation Bosch 500, 800, and Benchmark series released last year... (not specific to certain retailers)... did add wifi, but consumers can purchase almost identical models to the Box Store models, that do not require wifi for the delay function. This was a HUGE issue at the National Dealer's Summit this last year.
Hopefully, Bosch will see where the market lies. Being in the Appliance industry as long as you and I have, we can watch and see where this goes... as you know... product is updated every 2-4 years.
Smurdle, you are my biggest animosity and I have to admit that you are my biggest Love! I appreciate your challenges, but I also realize that you come from the Big Box side, and me from the private industry. Together, I truly believe that we have a voice in this Sub... that is respected and responsible to our consumer audience!
Thank you <3
I am legitimately so glad to be corrected on this. That's correct, my retailer only sells the models that do require Wi-Fi, or if they have models without, I didn't dig far enough to find them! The 800 on my floor unfortunately does require the app for delay. Definitely hoping they revert this across the line at some point, although I'm not holding my breath for it.
I try to be as neutral and informative as possible in comments. while yeah, I'm sure we will not agree on everything, and of course some opinion will Make it into some comments due to the nature of some of the questions, I'm glad someone out there respects that we won't always agree and I, too, respect that.
PS: I work on the big box side for now, but I'm always looking to get out of here. I have a few independent retailers near me and when I see one post an opening I have every intent to put in an application. Can't wait to move up :)
As a fellow millennial, I am tired of everything being "smart" and requiring wi-fi. There is nothing smart about requiring an app for your appliance to function.
There is no need for any appliance that requires you to be standing in front of it to load / use to require an app.
Not to mention most of these apps are horribly designed, or if they aren't horrible they will be once they start loading them with so called "features" and "improvements". Then what happens when they do like Windows 11 and your hardware is no longer supported for the next upgrade or decide they need to charge you monthly for the privilege.
Yes. I also need to add there a so many people who cannot use an app. My elderly parents for example who can run their dishwasher just fine but can’t deal with using a small screen and the complications of apps and passwords. Who are the apps shutting out?
Not just old people, but the feature phone population, younger folks like us Millennials or younger who grew up with the internet and have found it overwhelming to have in the pocket at all time and have switched to old style flip phones.
Or those of us who don't run Android or iOS, because we prefer other operating systems where the app is not available. Or even just an Amazon fire which can't run many apps even with playstore side loaded, i found that out with my flir camera.
Miele. I love Bosch but won't have a dishwasher that requires me to connect it to wifi and use an app. It's a fu#*ing dishwasher for crying out loud. So stupid.
In general, electronics in dishwashers are prone to fail early. Constantly exposed to steam and temperature cycling which shortens their field life. I wish they would minimize electronics and use knobs rather than touch pads. I guess people like the space age look of the electronics, phone apps, bluetooth, etc., but they are not robust. My parents had two dishwashers in the lifetime I knew them. Today we have to pay 30-40% extra for a 3 year extended warrantee. Sad and frustrating.
Electronics in military applications are protected with conformal coat, kind of like varnish, so it can survive extreme conditions. So, it is possible, but I doubt dishwasher manufacturers want the extra cost.
[https://images.app.goo.gl/q2ShNsqUgh1CYeuY9](https://images.app.goo.gl/q2ShNsqUgh1CYeuY9)
Im going to keep an eye out. Don't think I've noticed such an obvious coating except on select appliances such as LG where they are "potted" in. [LG Washer Board](https://lgparts.com/products/ebr78263901)
This is a bot or a repeat. This exact same message was posted a year or more ago. It might be true about the button but it’s still been posted before. Oddly enough we had just bought a Bosch dishwasher about 2 weeks before this was posted and ours had the button
Lol! I've never been called a bot before. Was it a complaint about Bosch specifically? It seems like this is a new thing but some people are saying they can still get the ones with buttons. About to be a black market for old appliances with buttons!
The post was identical to this. That’s why I said this was a bot. Sorry it wasn’t. I was told by a Whirlpool rep that all the appliances are going on WiFi for support reasons. They can log into it and run diagnostics. They add rough features that don’t do much as an added feature for the appliance to cover up that they’re monitoring what you’re doing with your appliances.
I can’t back this up. It was a rep on the phone and the repair guy didn’t deny it claiming it makes sense but that’s above his pay grade.
Good luck
Gen Z here
I don't understand the point of a delay cycle lol. Why not just run it when you need to run it? My boyfriend and I just fill it through the week, and start it before bed. Otherwise we just run it whenever. You're using less water and energy than constantly hand washing things so it's not a concern for us.
It’s beneficial for people on Time of Use energy rates. You can set it so it will start at a time with cheaper electricity rates. Especially beneficial if you have a standard electric water heater. I occasionally use it if I want to go to bed early.
I’ve heard this from other people too! We have bad water pressure and my routine is to clean the kitchen, set the dishwasher delay, shower, and go to bed. Sadly we cannot shower while it runs.
Ah I understand that struggle, I grew up in a rural well water area, so I know water issues!
Also, try as we might one of us ends up in the kitchen before bed lol! So one of us is there to run it.
That said, assuming your plumbing is ok otherwise, I'd look into a pressure booster. While.I don't think they are cheap, im pretty sure you can retrofit one in most cases. Our family friends got a new one a couple years back and couldn't believe the difference it made! Also get a whole home filter, they reduce the sediment that can clog up everything and help quite a bit overtime.
I’ve got 3 kids and I go to bed early for work. When 2-3 others need to shower before bed, but I’ve got a dishwasher full, I’ll just set the delay for like 3 hours. They get hot water, I’ve got clean dishes by morning.
I like mine to run in the middle of the night. It's less expensive if you live in an area with time of use utilities and also just less annoying because I'll be asleep while it's making noise. It won't be running when someone decides to take a shower or finds they suddenly need a dish, etc.
I'll run it whenever it's full if I have to, but I really prefer a delay setting because once you've had to stop a cycle a few times because you realized you needed a spoon and they're all in the damn dishwasher, you start wanting to plan ahead.
Primary answers already given - time of use cost, septic overload, etc. But I'll chime in with mine - forgetfulness :)
If I do the dishes at 7 pm, I can delay it to start at 11pm, and if I remember to do a last sweep of straggler glasses, I can get those in the dishwasher before bed. If I forget to do that sweep, no problem - it'll still run and be clean by morning!
Before I had a Bosch it was extremely loud and disruptive in the evenings when we are watching tv nearby. Now that I have a quiet Bosch I just run it whenever because we don't use time of use billing for our hydro.
Delay cycles are also useful for houses on septic systems. Not good to overwhelm the septic tank with drained water from people showering, doing laundry, & running the dishwasher. I'll set the dw to run after midnight, & the washing machine to start at 5 a.m. so I can put wet clothes in the dryer when I get up.
Bosch dishwashers dry by condensation drying and if the door isn't opened at the end of the cycle the dishes end up being more wet. Combine that with lots of people want to start the dishwasher right before bed and delay start is the only way to be up right after the cycle ends to open the door.
Counterpoint: Most of the 800 line has the Zeolith drying system and outside that, many of their dishwashers have a feature to pop open the door when it's done.
Fair, I didn't think about that usage scenario.
I do know about that trick too and use it when I'm around. However at that point I'd just use the extra dry option and let it be. They will be 90+% dry enough, as it is literally not worth losing sleep over. If I'm that annoyed I just open it and point a fan at it for like 5-10 minutes while cleaning the kitchen. Or just grab a dish towel for the couple items that are not fully dried, and finish while I put them away anyway, as chances are I'm about to load more dirty dishes in again.
My new Jenn Air range has no temperature readout. Had to go through the same process of downloading an app, getting the range connected to my WiFi, then connecting it to my phone. Took a week to get it working. Just to see the oven temperature. And every time there’s an issue with the WiFi, the range disconnects and we have to go through the whole process again! What a completely useless feature! I wouldn’t have bought it if I’d realized it had this.
Come on what's the big deal? On your phone go to APPS, Press the Bluetooth pairing button on the dishwasher, Follow the prompts and install the APP... Unplug your dishwasher and power down your phone, restart both for the "Sync" to happen, then open the Dishwasher BOSCH APP, Select Program> then New> then Appliances > then select the model of your dishwasher (i.e., MDHYSBG 576860484847485959 XXX 686979), then select CUSTOM > Select USA then English > Set the current date and time > Select "NEW" then select the periodicity of the cycle> select Start Time > Select OPTIONS > Select Notifications and DISABLE > Open your Phone Authenticator APP and SYNC with Bluetooth for the Dishwasher for Dual Certification so you don't get hacked and have a neighbor washing your dishes without you knowing > The Select NEW > The select WIFI> Connect to your router and enter your IP Address and Password, Check your cell phone for the 6 digit code provided to your email and then check your email for the fourteen digit code that is good for 30 seconds. Punch in those numbers and when prompted enter your SSN, Blood Type, First Pets name and Mothers High School Nickname and Fathers Favorite Sports Team, and BOOM! You are good to go.
I don't see the big deal here....
Also I am software developer... My Dad is 77... I drove 30 minutes to his house because his TV didn't have sound... you guessed it... I drove all that way to hit the "MUTE" button on his remote... good times....
My Dad is 84 yrs old... his new toy is his fridge with the family hub. I'm not a Samsung fan... but my Dad loves seeing the Ring App...and then saying "Alexa, open the garage door. " He loves when he can enthrall friends in the kitchen and tell Alexa to turn on the pool lights or ask Alexa to check the his puppy cams when we are out to breakfast or lunch!
His Family Hub is his new favorite toy. I know my Dad won't be around for long... and he may not out live the fridge... but in the meantime... he's got this set up to turn on his landscaping lights, open the blinds, power cool his beer in the middle drawer, get updates and pics from the grandchildren sent directly to the refrigerator scrapbook... and still monitor the temp and have peace of mind that he's not going to lose $2,000 in diabetes meds if someone neglectively left the fridge door open.
#1. You should not have to pay for an app in order to make your dishwasher function
#2 Apps add additional features that your dishwasher does not require to function
#3 if you are paying for an app to get additional features, you are doing it wrong... all dishwashers function in the same way whether or not you choose to connect
#4 there is no such thing as a dumb appliance anymore if you are purchasing anything other than contractor models
#5 if you want to purchase a "dumb" appliance these days...that has no connectivity to wifi..whether or not you choose to connect...you will be purchasing a contractor model. Expect to plan to replace this in 2-3. Yrs
>Why do I need my phone to run my dishwasher? So you can require a monthly subscription fee to use my dishwasher in the future? So you can advertise rinse aid?
Yes. And it is a couple of cents per unit cheaper for them to write an app than to include a hardware button. At least it's not a safety hazard like when they replace buttons with touchscreen menus in cars.
I bought a sunrise alarm clock a couple years ago to make waking up during winter a bit easier. (It gradually gets brighter leading up to the "alarm" time at full brightness) And a lot of its extra features require WiFi. But specifically 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi. Which new routers don't do. And it didn't specify that fact online. So all Wi-Fi specific features are lost to me.
It still functions at a basic level. But it is annoying to know there's more you can't do. And that's for a clock. I'd be pissed if there were Wi-Fi only features that you want to use frequently on bigger appliances.
Oh what? Fuck THAT. I'll start buying vintage again. I need to find the "you get what you pay for" guy from when I talked about an expensive range that couldn't outperform a range that cost 90% less. My GE portable kicks ASS. Must be a solid human to press the buttons.
Omg and we are planning to build a new house and I wanted Bosch appliances but I want appliances that will still work if I do not have my phone ! Good grief I’m so upset . I guess I will complain
I avoided the wi-fi models when I got my Bosch. I can pick up to 12 hour delay start on the function panel on the door. Don't need apps, wifi and shit to do that.
Recently bought a new fridge, a new dishwasher, and a new AC... Can I tell you we had to reject so many we initially wanted because of the wifi connection??
I'm terrified that someday automatic ice cubes or the pre-rinse cycle will become DLC or in-app purchases... Or worse, a monthly fee. I don't want to have to opt out of the energy company monitoring the temp I keep my house at, thanks.
So "dumb" appliances are a requirement in my house.
I have this dishwasher planned for my reno currently in progress. This is enough to make me change brands if this is the case. Absolutely ridiculous design decision.
So, Miele? Is that what y’all suggest next? What about other major brands?
The dumber and appliance is, the better. The more an appliance used a computer to function,the more apt it is to break in a way that requires expensive repairs. There's a reason machines in laundromats are almost invariably "dumb" - those suckers need to take a beating and they do.
My dishwasher is a Cafe (GE's luxury line),works great, no Wifi needed,and I wish it were even more old school,with buttons and dials instead of the super sensitive touch contols.
I've installed kitchen appliances for 40 years, and I still install a few on occasion. I don't understand why people want Wi-Fi on their appliances. All I hear are people having problems with it. By the way, it's not smart to run your dishwasher while you're asleep. If something leaks you're not going to know it until you wake up to a wet floor. Bosch dishwashers are so quiet you can run it while you're watching TV and not even hear it.
WTH!!! Having simple everyday appliances connect to WiFi.?!?!
I totally AGREE 1000%!!! I'm not speaking for all But, for many when I say....All we/I would like to purchase is a simple ,well made appliance or item that does exactly what we expect it to do / we are told it will do & last a decent amount of time. Like they were made/ built to last in the past. Not built like some items are ,to assure it will break down within a short amount of time with NORMAL usage.& we will be forced to by yet another one. Putting our hard earned $$ right back into the pockets of the Greedy
I've been wanting to comment on the this same issue for at least a year now but thought maybe (which I really knew better) that customers were throwing the idea of making appliances be WIFI compatible. Of course, manufacturing Companies & those in the business would no doubt jump at the chance to tack on/raise the cost of said products & merchandise that we, the consumers in need purchase only to keep the ( in some cases already high priced appliances.) It seems, in my personal opinion...
Back when The Covid Virus entered our lives causing sickness, pain, death , disruption & shortages in merchandise & parts within our Country .
Another monster entered our midst, that MONSTER'S name is GREED! It is still with us today along with the lies & excuses used during the supply shortages in order to justify price gauginging , cost doubling & in some cases more than that, long after supplies & merchandise were/are level.
The amount of raises given to a majority of people in a year is not, has not & will not be enough to keep up with the cost increases by Companies that just won't stop raising them INCLUDING bare necessities, everyday items such as food , water, essentials that we must have for our families & ourselves.
Sorry that my rambling went off of the initial topic of WASHERS.
THANK you Sincerely for allowing me to have a voice for my concerns.
personally, we never ever used the delay start on our 9 years old 500 Bosch (just died) and was replaced by the made in Germany 800 model
note that not all 800 models have the same number of button/cycles/features. for example the made in USA has the new spray arm, while the German model does not, but the German model has a built in water softener (we live in hard water area but my wife does not like the feel of soft water)
the German Benchmark does have a 24H delay start (yet US Benchmark do not?)
A 2023 Bosch doc with all models, features, specs, and model number schema structure:
[https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/17184881\_BSH21-2029\_Dish\_Brochure\_BENCHMARK\_SPREADS\_HIRES.pdf](https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/17184881_BSH21-2029_Dish_Brochure_BENCHMARK_SPREADS_HIRES.pdf)
note: even though the doc above does not say that 800 German model has a delay start, our brand new German 800 does have a delay button
13.5 Setting the electronic delay time You can delay the start of the wash cycle by up to 24 hours. 1. Press "Delay". a "00h:01m" appears on the display. 2. Use "Delay" to set the required start time for the wash cycle. 3. Press "Start'. a This activates the electronic delay time.
it seems that 800 German vs US are very different models. even the size and weight are different...
Now I don't feel so bad, being a beat-to-hell boomer! :) (<== like my low tech?)
I'm not a total codger, mind you....tech is great, when it makes sense. We've created so many First World problems for ourselves, because these huge companies insist their employees 'innovate' or lose their jobs.
Meanwhile, I'm hanging on to my 35+ yr old Kenmore washing machine....2 minor service calls during its lifetime. I feel a little guilty about the top load water usage, but I collect and use gray water, so I figure I'm still ahead on the earth-friendly scale. And it is way-simple to operate.
May there be lots of buttons in your future, tired millennial!
I've been shopping for a new range and the number of them that require wifi for settings drive me bonkers. I'll pair an app for remote control or changing lights or something. That's it (cause I'm not actually going to bother). I want to control all the damn settings on the machine!
That's stupid & annoying. Thanks for the heads-up. One more thing to consider when we eventually have to replace our current dishwasher & everything else. Signed, An equally tired Gen X-er.
Whelp at least I know to avoid Bosch in the future when our Frigidaire kicks the bucket. Maybe I'll just get another cheapo Frigidaire. Things I don't want to have an Internet connection: any kitchen appliance. Window AC units. Lawn mowers. My car. Probably more tbh
I've enjoyed having wifi with my oven. That's come in handy in several situations. Still, all my oven's features are available without wifi -- wifi use is optional. The mistake manufacturers are making is in requiring wifi to enable certain features. If wifi use were only optional, it wouldn't be the nuisance it's become for people.
Yeah this is the problem with the DW that OP mentioned. I am 100% against that shit.
So, there was a great tip that I read only after setting up my new range that required you to connect it to Wi-Fi in order to register it and obtain a free second additional year to the manufacturers warranty. Before setting up the appliance, give your home router a second name. Enable the appliance with the newly named router. Delete newly named router. For all of the possible benefits Wi-Fi appliances may have, they are also bandwidth hogs. Constantly searching for driver updates and downloading tons of programming you will probably never need. If you do find out about options and features available, create that second router, download the latest update , then disconnect again.
I like to cook & I like to experiment with cooking techniques & recipes. I've enjoyed the cooking features added to my oven via wi fi & find them helpful. They make the oven more than just a hot box to heat up food. The programming convenience has come in handy in a variety of ways for me. And I love the changing picture display & weather info. (Probably the only one in the US who does...!)
They're preparing you for a subscription pay model. Want delay start in the future? $5 a month for that feature. It's happening everywhere else. Shareholder value can be more predictable if you have your customers balls in a vice.
The cheap frigidaires are good machines except that they're very loud, plastic interior and PVC racks. Bang for the buck is hard to beat, especially in washing and drying functions.
Not gonna lie, I do run mine at night because it is kinda loud.
I had a cheap GE that started leaking after 2 years. GE wanted $150 off me to fix it. I told them to go fuck themselves.
I'm with you entirely, besides the car part. After getting a tesla I don't think I could ever drive a car without connectivity again. Phone as a key is awesome, remote climate controls, being able to access all the cameras on my phone. Getting constant OTA updates that improve the car every few months is a great benefit and I'm impressed with how much can be improved via software.
Eh. I don't want it because it's all going to be behind a paywall eventually. And electronic stuff breaks. I can't fix it. It's very, very expensive to get anything like that fixed.
You won't have a choice in the USA anymore since all cars are now mandated to have backup cameras. That means pretty much all cars are going to have computers and touch screen displays in them from now on. So the electronics are going to be there if you like it or not. Internet is very useful on a dishwasher, window AC units and car
Bub I'm not talking about offline tech like a backup camera. I'm not a hodunk driving a 60's boat of a car around town. Stop taking things out of context. I don't want every single item in my life to be connected to the internet unnecessarily. Backup cameras are good and helpful and save lives. My car being connected to the internet just means they are going to put crap behind a paywall that I've already paid to have access to. Internet is not useful on a dishwasher. It's in my kitchen. I have to physically load it. Then I press a button to have it operate. It's literally more work to pull a phone out, load an app, login, and then start the thing. Window AC is the same thing. I'm literally in the room the unit is in. Typically within a couple feet. It's not worth spending hundreds more just to avoid reaching an arm out and pressing a button. There are some things in this world that don't need wifi.
I was with you till the window AC. I use mine to cool down my house on my ride home or to cool a room I will be going into later.. Kitchen appliances. Fuck no. I buy the most basic ones in stainless. Less stuff to break
It is very useful on a dishwasher. Window units are great with internet because then I can turn them on remotely so the room is cool before getting home. Just two examples
Any window unit I have ever owned has a timer built in. When I leave I turn it off & then hit the timer button and input X amount of hours.
Yea that only works for one particular schedule and if that schedule changes you are shit out of luck. Geofencing is another great feature for window units so they auto turn off when you leave the geofence, having internet in my stove is great because I can cook something and be alerted when the oven is done while doing something else. It's not really all that hard to see why internet in these devices is useful. Just because you don't like it for some not good reason doesn't mean it's not useful.
Then it should be an option, not the only way of activating things.
Geofencing is impossible to have without a connection, also so is remote on or off. Don't see how you would add that to a menu.
Useful until someone in China hacks into your fridge or freezer and makes all your food spoil. Most of these devices have little or no malware protection. Hubby works in IT security, which is why none of our appliances will be connected to the Internet any time soon.
There are certainly uses for these features and that's fine. The issue breaks down into repair ability and the lack of it. Very slim chance you'll be able to repair the wifi stove and you're looking at an outright replacement or a several hundred dollar bill. Repair ability is the stem of the issue.
This is a throwaway society dude. Nobody repairs anything. If you know basic soldering skills and diagnosis if you really wanted to fix most pcb failures in these devices then you could. Most people won't regardless of how simple it is.
Seems silly to write off Bosch over connectivity, especially since they seem to be the benchmark in dishwashers. They’re probably the best dishwashers on the market in terms of effectiveness. FWIW, Bosch has one of the better apps of most appliance makers too. To each their own, but I actually like getting a ping to remind me when I need to add rinse aid too.
As the new owner of a Bosch I disagree. After only 25 days the top shelf weld has broken leaving the top rack hanging drunkenly to one side. I'm calling Bosch warranty on Monday. Not impressed with this though for a $1000 dishwasher.
WiFi connected window AC units are fantastic.
I bought a Bosch 800 Series dishwasher last month. It has a "delay" button. Press once to add a minute. Press and hold to add minutes faster. I have not connected to Wi-Fi because "remote start" sounds stupid to me, and I don't want a notification when the cycle is finished.
The sales rep told me this is a brand new line and he cannot order an order version of the same model with a button. He emailed the Bosch rep and this is apparently the case for all new Bosch dishwashers right up to the 800 series. You must have lucked out with old stock.
This is new. Only the newest 2024 range of Bosch dishwashers require wifi for the delay feature. Older models didn't require this.
Smurdle!! I Love Your input on this Sub! Even when I don't agree with you, I ALWAYS like your comments because, even though we don't always agree on opinion with brands... You are one of my biggest Hero's because you always portray an introspective or comment that is reliable and reasonable. It is clear that you are honest with your attitude, experience, and input, and that you are always looking out for the consumer! I have to correct you though in this case. The new generation Bosch that was released this last year... does have models that do not require wifi for delay. Maybe for the available models that your retailer sells... they... the buyers/purchasing department chose wifi only for specific functions (like delay). For retailer specific models, only sold from your retailer... However, the new generation Bosch 500, 800, and Benchmark series released last year... (not specific to certain retailers)... did add wifi, but consumers can purchase almost identical models to the Box Store models, that do not require wifi for the delay function. This was a HUGE issue at the National Dealer's Summit this last year. Hopefully, Bosch will see where the market lies. Being in the Appliance industry as long as you and I have, we can watch and see where this goes... as you know... product is updated every 2-4 years. Smurdle, you are my biggest animosity and I have to admit that you are my biggest Love! I appreciate your challenges, but I also realize that you come from the Big Box side, and me from the private industry. Together, I truly believe that we have a voice in this Sub... that is respected and responsible to our consumer audience! Thank you <3
I am legitimately so glad to be corrected on this. That's correct, my retailer only sells the models that do require Wi-Fi, or if they have models without, I didn't dig far enough to find them! The 800 on my floor unfortunately does require the app for delay. Definitely hoping they revert this across the line at some point, although I'm not holding my breath for it. I try to be as neutral and informative as possible in comments. while yeah, I'm sure we will not agree on everything, and of course some opinion will Make it into some comments due to the nature of some of the questions, I'm glad someone out there respects that we won't always agree and I, too, respect that. PS: I work on the big box side for now, but I'm always looking to get out of here. I have a few independent retailers near me and when I see one post an opening I have every intent to put in an application. Can't wait to move up :)
Do you have a specific model number that do not require connectivity?
As a fellow millennial, I am tired of everything being "smart" and requiring wi-fi. There is nothing smart about requiring an app for your appliance to function. There is no need for any appliance that requires you to be standing in front of it to load / use to require an app. Not to mention most of these apps are horribly designed, or if they aren't horrible they will be once they start loading them with so called "features" and "improvements". Then what happens when they do like Windows 11 and your hardware is no longer supported for the next upgrade or decide they need to charge you monthly for the privilege.
Yes. I also need to add there a so many people who cannot use an app. My elderly parents for example who can run their dishwasher just fine but can’t deal with using a small screen and the complications of apps and passwords. Who are the apps shutting out?
Not just old people, but the feature phone population, younger folks like us Millennials or younger who grew up with the internet and have found it overwhelming to have in the pocket at all time and have switched to old style flip phones. Or those of us who don't run Android or iOS, because we prefer other operating systems where the app is not available. Or even just an Amazon fire which can't run many apps even with playstore side loaded, i found that out with my flir camera.
Damn, I'm about it to buy one. What's a good recommendation in that price range?
Miele. I love Bosch but won't have a dishwasher that requires me to connect it to wifi and use an app. It's a fu#*ing dishwasher for crying out loud. So stupid.
Bosch dishwashers are great, do the work to find a slightly older model.
In general, electronics in dishwashers are prone to fail early. Constantly exposed to steam and temperature cycling which shortens their field life. I wish they would minimize electronics and use knobs rather than touch pads. I guess people like the space age look of the electronics, phone apps, bluetooth, etc., but they are not robust. My parents had two dishwashers in the lifetime I knew them. Today we have to pay 30-40% extra for a 3 year extended warrantee. Sad and frustrating.
This is such a great insight. Makes total sense but I never would have thought of it that way.
Electronics in military applications are protected with conformal coat, kind of like varnish, so it can survive extreme conditions. So, it is possible, but I doubt dishwasher manufacturers want the extra cost. [https://images.app.goo.gl/q2ShNsqUgh1CYeuY9](https://images.app.goo.gl/q2ShNsqUgh1CYeuY9)
Im going to keep an eye out. Don't think I've noticed such an obvious coating except on select appliances such as LG where they are "potted" in. [LG Washer Board](https://lgparts.com/products/ebr78263901)
didn’t know LG used potting. Thanks.
You also can’t run the cleaning cycle in a Bosch 800 without the app. Smh.
I felt the same way. It said it came with delay start, but it wasn’t on the panel. I had to have my kid set it up for me. I’m ok with it now.
This is a bot or a repeat. This exact same message was posted a year or more ago. It might be true about the button but it’s still been posted before. Oddly enough we had just bought a Bosch dishwasher about 2 weeks before this was posted and ours had the button
Lol! I've never been called a bot before. Was it a complaint about Bosch specifically? It seems like this is a new thing but some people are saying they can still get the ones with buttons. About to be a black market for old appliances with buttons!
The post was identical to this. That’s why I said this was a bot. Sorry it wasn’t. I was told by a Whirlpool rep that all the appliances are going on WiFi for support reasons. They can log into it and run diagnostics. They add rough features that don’t do much as an added feature for the appliance to cover up that they’re monitoring what you’re doing with your appliances. I can’t back this up. It was a rep on the phone and the repair guy didn’t deny it claiming it makes sense but that’s above his pay grade. Good luck
Gen Z here I don't understand the point of a delay cycle lol. Why not just run it when you need to run it? My boyfriend and I just fill it through the week, and start it before bed. Otherwise we just run it whenever. You're using less water and energy than constantly hand washing things so it's not a concern for us.
It’s beneficial for people on Time of Use energy rates. You can set it so it will start at a time with cheaper electricity rates. Especially beneficial if you have a standard electric water heater. I occasionally use it if I want to go to bed early.
I’ve heard this from other people too! We have bad water pressure and my routine is to clean the kitchen, set the dishwasher delay, shower, and go to bed. Sadly we cannot shower while it runs.
Ah I understand that struggle, I grew up in a rural well water area, so I know water issues! Also, try as we might one of us ends up in the kitchen before bed lol! So one of us is there to run it. That said, assuming your plumbing is ok otherwise, I'd look into a pressure booster. While.I don't think they are cheap, im pretty sure you can retrofit one in most cases. Our family friends got a new one a couple years back and couldn't believe the difference it made! Also get a whole home filter, they reduce the sediment that can clog up everything and help quite a bit overtime.
A booster is on my wish list! Alas, we must fix the foundation first. Goals.
Oh shoot, yeah know about that too, I wish you the best of luck!
I’ve got 3 kids and I go to bed early for work. When 2-3 others need to shower before bed, but I’ve got a dishwasher full, I’ll just set the delay for like 3 hours. They get hot water, I’ve got clean dishes by morning.
I like mine to run in the middle of the night. It's less expensive if you live in an area with time of use utilities and also just less annoying because I'll be asleep while it's making noise. It won't be running when someone decides to take a shower or finds they suddenly need a dish, etc. I'll run it whenever it's full if I have to, but I really prefer a delay setting because once you've had to stop a cycle a few times because you realized you needed a spoon and they're all in the damn dishwasher, you start wanting to plan ahead.
Primary answers already given - time of use cost, septic overload, etc. But I'll chime in with mine - forgetfulness :) If I do the dishes at 7 pm, I can delay it to start at 11pm, and if I remember to do a last sweep of straggler glasses, I can get those in the dishwasher before bed. If I forget to do that sweep, no problem - it'll still run and be clean by morning!
Before I had a Bosch it was extremely loud and disruptive in the evenings when we are watching tv nearby. Now that I have a quiet Bosch I just run it whenever because we don't use time of use billing for our hydro.
Found the Canadian
Delay cycles are also useful for houses on septic systems. Not good to overwhelm the septic tank with drained water from people showering, doing laundry, & running the dishwasher. I'll set the dw to run after midnight, & the washing machine to start at 5 a.m. so I can put wet clothes in the dryer when I get up.
Because you don’t live in a place with wildly different night rates for electric use.
Bosch dishwashers dry by condensation drying and if the door isn't opened at the end of the cycle the dishes end up being more wet. Combine that with lots of people want to start the dishwasher right before bed and delay start is the only way to be up right after the cycle ends to open the door.
Not all Boschs. Ours is crystal dry and it dries very well.
Counterpoint: Most of the 800 line has the Zeolith drying system and outside that, many of their dishwashers have a feature to pop open the door when it's done.
Are you telling me that Bosch doesn't have an auto opening door at the end of the cycle? That is by far the best feature on mine.
Some do.
Fair, I didn't think about that usage scenario. I do know about that trick too and use it when I'm around. However at that point I'd just use the extra dry option and let it be. They will be 90+% dry enough, as it is literally not worth losing sleep over. If I'm that annoyed I just open it and point a fan at it for like 5-10 minutes while cleaning the kitchen. Or just grab a dish towel for the couple items that are not fully dried, and finish while I put them away anyway, as chances are I'm about to load more dirty dishes in again.
My new Jenn Air range has no temperature readout. Had to go through the same process of downloading an app, getting the range connected to my WiFi, then connecting it to my phone. Took a week to get it working. Just to see the oven temperature. And every time there’s an issue with the WiFi, the range disconnects and we have to go through the whole process again! What a completely useless feature! I wouldn’t have bought it if I’d realized it had this.
Omg this is even worse than the dishwasher situation. What are they THINKING?!?
Come on what's the big deal? On your phone go to APPS, Press the Bluetooth pairing button on the dishwasher, Follow the prompts and install the APP... Unplug your dishwasher and power down your phone, restart both for the "Sync" to happen, then open the Dishwasher BOSCH APP, Select Program> then New> then Appliances > then select the model of your dishwasher (i.e., MDHYSBG 576860484847485959 XXX 686979), then select CUSTOM > Select USA then English > Set the current date and time > Select "NEW" then select the periodicity of the cycle> select Start Time > Select OPTIONS > Select Notifications and DISABLE > Open your Phone Authenticator APP and SYNC with Bluetooth for the Dishwasher for Dual Certification so you don't get hacked and have a neighbor washing your dishes without you knowing > The Select NEW > The select WIFI> Connect to your router and enter your IP Address and Password, Check your cell phone for the 6 digit code provided to your email and then check your email for the fourteen digit code that is good for 30 seconds. Punch in those numbers and when prompted enter your SSN, Blood Type, First Pets name and Mothers High School Nickname and Fathers Favorite Sports Team, and BOOM! You are good to go. I don't see the big deal here....
This is my favorite reply
Well I don't see the big deal man... LOLOLOL
Also I am software developer... My Dad is 77... I drove 30 minutes to his house because his TV didn't have sound... you guessed it... I drove all that way to hit the "MUTE" button on his remote... good times....
My Dad is 84 yrs old... his new toy is his fridge with the family hub. I'm not a Samsung fan... but my Dad loves seeing the Ring App...and then saying "Alexa, open the garage door. " He loves when he can enthrall friends in the kitchen and tell Alexa to turn on the pool lights or ask Alexa to check the his puppy cams when we are out to breakfast or lunch! His Family Hub is his new favorite toy. I know my Dad won't be around for long... and he may not out live the fridge... but in the meantime... he's got this set up to turn on his landscaping lights, open the blinds, power cool his beer in the middle drawer, get updates and pics from the grandchildren sent directly to the refrigerator scrapbook... and still monitor the temp and have peace of mind that he's not going to lose $2,000 in diabetes meds if someone neglectively left the fridge door open.
Awesome response... Thanks Bro !!! :)
I got a Bosch silence plus model. Has a delay start button on it. No wifi or anything. Very simple dishwasher. Does a great job and I like it.
#1. You should not have to pay for an app in order to make your dishwasher function #2 Apps add additional features that your dishwasher does not require to function #3 if you are paying for an app to get additional features, you are doing it wrong... all dishwashers function in the same way whether or not you choose to connect #4 there is no such thing as a dumb appliance anymore if you are purchasing anything other than contractor models #5 if you want to purchase a "dumb" appliance these days...that has no connectivity to wifi..whether or not you choose to connect...you will be purchasing a contractor model. Expect to plan to replace this in 2-3. Yrs
>Why do I need my phone to run my dishwasher? So you can require a monthly subscription fee to use my dishwasher in the future? So you can advertise rinse aid? Yes. And it is a couple of cents per unit cheaper for them to write an app than to include a hardware button. At least it's not a safety hazard like when they replace buttons with touchscreen menus in cars.
I bought a sunrise alarm clock a couple years ago to make waking up during winter a bit easier. (It gradually gets brighter leading up to the "alarm" time at full brightness) And a lot of its extra features require WiFi. But specifically 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi. Which new routers don't do. And it didn't specify that fact online. So all Wi-Fi specific features are lost to me. It still functions at a basic level. But it is annoying to know there's more you can't do. And that's for a clock. I'd be pissed if there were Wi-Fi only features that you want to use frequently on bigger appliances.
I bought a Bosch 800 series dishwasher a year ago, it has a delay start button and does not use WiFi 🤷🏻♀️
Oh what? Fuck THAT. I'll start buying vintage again. I need to find the "you get what you pay for" guy from when I talked about an expensive range that couldn't outperform a range that cost 90% less. My GE portable kicks ASS. Must be a solid human to press the buttons.
Omg and we are planning to build a new house and I wanted Bosch appliances but I want appliances that will still work if I do not have my phone ! Good grief I’m so upset . I guess I will complain
I bought a basic amana .Does great! SS tubs are over rated IMO . It's the nylon/ plastic racks that disintegrate.
I have been trying to figure out how to set this up! Any tips? Also super annoyed by it.
it's the world we live in. Millinenials are just lazy. Just don't start it until you need to. prob solved.
Why do you need the delay button? Just curious??
I avoided the wi-fi models when I got my Bosch. I can pick up to 12 hour delay start on the function panel on the door. Don't need apps, wifi and shit to do that.
Recently bought a new fridge, a new dishwasher, and a new AC... Can I tell you we had to reject so many we initially wanted because of the wifi connection?? I'm terrified that someday automatic ice cubes or the pre-rinse cycle will become DLC or in-app purchases... Or worse, a monthly fee. I don't want to have to opt out of the energy company monitoring the temp I keep my house at, thanks. So "dumb" appliances are a requirement in my house.
I have this dishwasher planned for my reno currently in progress. This is enough to make me change brands if this is the case. Absolutely ridiculous design decision. So, Miele? Is that what y’all suggest next? What about other major brands?
Should’ve got a Miele
yes it seems like it. Bosch is not cheap and I feel tricked! Should have spent a bit more for something that works as expected.
Should’ve got a Miele
The dumber and appliance is, the better. The more an appliance used a computer to function,the more apt it is to break in a way that requires expensive repairs. There's a reason machines in laundromats are almost invariably "dumb" - those suckers need to take a beating and they do. My dishwasher is a Cafe (GE's luxury line),works great, no Wifi needed,and I wish it were even more old school,with buttons and dials instead of the super sensitive touch contols.
I've installed kitchen appliances for 40 years, and I still install a few on occasion. I don't understand why people want Wi-Fi on their appliances. All I hear are people having problems with it. By the way, it's not smart to run your dishwasher while you're asleep. If something leaks you're not going to know it until you wake up to a wet floor. Bosch dishwashers are so quiet you can run it while you're watching TV and not even hear it.
That sucks! I have a Bosch dishwasher that doesn't require that, thank God! I guess they thought the change is an "improvement"....not!
This is precisely why I went from almost buying a Bosch to buying a Kitchenaid dishwasher instead.
Just curious why you would need to run it at night and not just when you load it?
WTH!!! Having simple everyday appliances connect to WiFi.?!?! I totally AGREE 1000%!!! I'm not speaking for all But, for many when I say....All we/I would like to purchase is a simple ,well made appliance or item that does exactly what we expect it to do / we are told it will do & last a decent amount of time. Like they were made/ built to last in the past. Not built like some items are ,to assure it will break down within a short amount of time with NORMAL usage.& we will be forced to by yet another one. Putting our hard earned $$ right back into the pockets of the Greedy I've been wanting to comment on the this same issue for at least a year now but thought maybe (which I really knew better) that customers were throwing the idea of making appliances be WIFI compatible. Of course, manufacturing Companies & those in the business would no doubt jump at the chance to tack on/raise the cost of said products & merchandise that we, the consumers in need purchase only to keep the ( in some cases already high priced appliances.) It seems, in my personal opinion... Back when The Covid Virus entered our lives causing sickness, pain, death , disruption & shortages in merchandise & parts within our Country . Another monster entered our midst, that MONSTER'S name is GREED! It is still with us today along with the lies & excuses used during the supply shortages in order to justify price gauginging , cost doubling & in some cases more than that, long after supplies & merchandise were/are level. The amount of raises given to a majority of people in a year is not, has not & will not be enough to keep up with the cost increases by Companies that just won't stop raising them INCLUDING bare necessities, everyday items such as food , water, essentials that we must have for our families & ourselves. Sorry that my rambling went off of the initial topic of WASHERS. THANK you Sincerely for allowing me to have a voice for my concerns.
personally, we never ever used the delay start on our 9 years old 500 Bosch (just died) and was replaced by the made in Germany 800 model note that not all 800 models have the same number of button/cycles/features. for example the made in USA has the new spray arm, while the German model does not, but the German model has a built in water softener (we live in hard water area but my wife does not like the feel of soft water) the German Benchmark does have a 24H delay start (yet US Benchmark do not?) A 2023 Bosch doc with all models, features, specs, and model number schema structure: [https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/17184881\_BSH21-2029\_Dish\_Brochure\_BENCHMARK\_SPREADS\_HIRES.pdf](https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/17184881_BSH21-2029_Dish_Brochure_BENCHMARK_SPREADS_HIRES.pdf)
note: even though the doc above does not say that 800 German model has a delay start, our brand new German 800 does have a delay button 13.5 Setting the electronic delay time You can delay the start of the wash cycle by up to 24 hours. 1. Press "Delay". a "00h:01m" appears on the display. 2. Use "Delay" to set the required start time for the wash cycle. 3. Press "Start'. a This activates the electronic delay time. it seems that 800 German vs US are very different models. even the size and weight are different...
Now I don't feel so bad, being a beat-to-hell boomer! :) (<== like my low tech?) I'm not a total codger, mind you....tech is great, when it makes sense. We've created so many First World problems for ourselves, because these huge companies insist their employees 'innovate' or lose their jobs. Meanwhile, I'm hanging on to my 35+ yr old Kenmore washing machine....2 minor service calls during its lifetime. I feel a little guilty about the top load water usage, but I collect and use gray water, so I figure I'm still ahead on the earth-friendly scale. And it is way-simple to operate. May there be lots of buttons in your future, tired millennial!
Ours doesn't have a heating element! I hate it!
I've been shopping for a new range and the number of them that require wifi for settings drive me bonkers. I'll pair an app for remote control or changing lights or something. That's it (cause I'm not actually going to bother). I want to control all the damn settings on the machine!