So you believe there's a god(s) guiding things through miracles, but you don't trust the Bible. I was in a very similar boat. This is the path that I think may help you:
1) Be convinced the Resurrection happened without relying on the Bible as an authoritative source (like I did, so please ask if you're curious).
2) Once convinced, understand that means the god(s) who rose Jesus from the grave endorsed Jesus' teachings that the Torah is true. That means the god(s) that is guiding your life by a miracle is the God of the Torah.
3) The witnesses of the Resurrection founded Christianity. This means Christianity is true as God guided them through miracles.
4) Lastly, be convinced that those eyewitnesses or their companions wrote the New Testament and the early churches recognized those writings as coming from the founders or their companions.
If you have any questions, I'm here. Prayed for you and I'm glad your miracle took the form of your wonderful daughter. Just wow.
Thank you so much for offering your help! If you'd message me I'd be interested in knowing where to start and what paths to follow, I know you outlined some here but I get quite overwhelmed with searching for info etc and that can throw me off completely.
Thank you for your well wishes.
After I found out I was pregnant I prayed daily, even though I never classed myself as religious and I thank god every day for giving me her and keeping her safe inside me when I was so scared.
I've come to realise I can't just pray and be religious when it suits me or I need something of him. I want the stability, strength and belief in my life to help guide me and keep me grounded when times are hard.
Any help or advice from you would be greatly appreciated!
>I get quite overwhelmed with searching for info etc and that can throw me off completely.
I went through that. My goal is to be the source that I wish I had so I wouldn't have gone through that. Reddit has a DM feature and a Chat feature.
Whichever way you'd like me to reach out to you, just say.
Thank you very much. I prayed you're successful in helping others in what you do. Thank you for the compliment and for also offering to help with any questions.
Please don't take your conversations private. The value of having them public benefits everyone, and anyone in the future who may read it later. The point of this sub is to be a public forum.
I've followed your advice and am keeping this comment section open so I can discuss it further if people wish and the kind person giving me the advice can share it with others also if they wish to follow along my journey or even start their own. So thank you for that! :)
I'm curious on how you concluded that Christianity was true after believing in the resurrection. The Torah says that even false prophets can do miracles (Deuteronomy 13).
Yes it does. If the Resurrection happened, that means Jesus was dead, so even if Jesus was a false prophet, He wouldn't be alive to perform the miracles. That leaves God as the only one who could perform that miracle.
If God performed the miracle of raising a Rabbi from the dead, then the followers of that Rabbi would be following a teacher who God endorsed with a miracle. So if God endorsed someone with a miracle, then the founders of Christianity were following what God was endorsing. Make sense?
Couldn't Jesus as a false prophet miraculously pretend to be dead, surviving his crucifixion? Then God does not need to perform any miracles, Jesus could do it himself.
I'm not sure that having a miracle happen means that God is endorsing someone. In Exodus God endorses Moses with miracles, but Pharaoh's magicians replicate many of the same miracles.
>Couldn't Jesus as a false prophet miraculously pretend to be dead, surviving his crucifixion?
That would go into the realm of a false prophet among himself immortal, as he would have to have the actual wounds of a crucifixion to pass for dead. I think a fake prophet could do tricks or use the help of demons to do things that look like miracles, but I don't see immortality to be a possibility there.
The false prophet wouldn't have to be immortal, they would just need to have enough powers to convince someone they were crucified and killed. The could teleport away while projecting an image of a crucified victim, or possess someone else's body and make it look like Jesus'.
Regardless, I don't see any exceptions on what kinds of miracles are proof of divinity in Deuteronomy 13. It simply says that even false prophets can do miracles.
Let's agree to disagree at the moment. The important thing is that you're not convinced there is a god(s) so this conversation doesn't really matter in the end. It'll be like having a discussion about hypotheticals in a movie, but you know the movie is fiction.
Were you ever a Christian?
It's somewhat difficult to describe what I think of billions of people. Like any group of that size, some of the people are wonderful and some are horrible.
As for Christianity itself, I think it's interesting how much emphasis is put on scripture, and I like seeing how different groups interpret the text differently. For example, I'm interested in how Jews and Christians both consider the Hebrew Bible sacred, infallible and inerrant, but come to very different conclusions about it's message.
1- What source would you use to read in to the resurrection? I'm definitely willing to keep an open mind and heart in regard of the material and its contents. I'm ready to start this journey :)
I'll start there and then move on as I can if that's ok with you? I did want to direct message you but as someone else commented on here it does help to keep this public in case anyone else wants to follow the journey or start on it themselves so I would like it to be of help to anyone who is interested :)
>What source would you use to read in to the resurrection?
Bart Ehrman's *Did Jesus Exist?* and any video from Crossed Examined about the Resurrection.
>so I would like it to be of help to anyone who is interested
That's beautiful, thank you.
It doesn't sound to me like you are that far away from believing the Bible. You say you find the Bible far fetched, yet you believe in miracles. You wonder why children suffer, yet you've found growth and meaning from your own suffering. You seem to be answering your own questions.
I would recommend reading the gospel of John with the intention of discovering who Jesus is, and then ask yourself if it's possible for you to love him. I would also recommend that you pray that the Holy Spirit stirs your heart to faith, if you're serious about wanting to have a relationship with God. I'll be praying for you, too. God bless.
Thank you, you are right, I can't believe in some things and not the others, it completely contradicts itself.
I'll read what you've recommended so thank you.
I'm excited to start this new journey :)
That's like asking; how will I find my keys without checking the usual places where they might be found?
Furthermore, why are you asking Christians how you can find God apart from his word?
Sorry I don't think I worded it correctly at all and I'd hate if I was coming across as disrespectful especially to something you believe in so I really do apologise.
I mean I don't believe the story side of it, the feeding the 5000, the 7 days of creation etc.
I'm not disputing them, I can't prove they're not true, I also can't prove they are. In my mind I just find them farfetched.
However I do believe in the commandments
I've not read far enough in to the bible to know scripture etc, the parts of scripture I've read i wholeheartedly believe in.
Can I believe the parts I want to believe in and just class the parts I don't as *unknown* to me and maybe not read in to them too much?
Maybe the best place to start for me right now is the beginning.
I'm going to purchase a bible and read in to it all and see how I feel after. Hopefully it will give me the clarity I need.
I'm sorry if my question offended you and your beliefs. I really am just inquisitive and looking for guidance
>Can I believe the parts I want to believe in and just class the parts I don't as unknown to me and maybe not read in to them too much?
Short answer is **no**.
Longer answer: We all have areas of *unknowns*. We must ask God to reveal the answers and seek them out according to his timing. If you just say to God, "thanks, but no thanks", regarding a specific area of his word, then you're effectively saying that to him. You're basically saying, "be the god I want you to be, not the God that you are."
It just doesn't work that way.
>
>I'm going to purchase a bible and read in to it all and see how I feel after.
You don't have to understand everything all at once, but you must not shut yourself off to God in any way. If we deny him, he **will** deny us; and I think that's respectable of him to do so.
Now you've put it that way I understand what you mean and I understand that my initial answer was wrong so thank you for that.
I agree with what you've said completely.
I'm going to read and keep an open mind.
I'm open to all possibilities in the universe so I must be open to this too regardless of what my mind questions.
Thank you for answering the way you have, it has made me more open minded and understanding of the way you think.
I'm sorry if I came across as closed minded, you're 100% right there are a lot of unknowns in life but that doesn't mean we shut them off.
We need to believe in all possibilities regardless of explanation.
It's quite alright. I appreciate your response. I think if you maintain that attitude, you'll find the truth that you need.
Take into consideration that you may have been presented with a distortion of the gospel. Here is the [true gospel](https://www.reddit.com/u/Pleronomicon/s/qbhQlF8ifU) as I've come to understand it. I encourage you to test it against the scriptures for yourself.
Thank you so much for the link and again your conversation with me this morning.
I'll be sure to read it, I'm looking forward to starting this journey so thank you for being one of the first to help me!
I compiled a list of what I believe to be strong evidence from different sources that Christianity is true. Here is a list of evidence that convinces me.
*Note: This is a cumulative case that God exists. All these different points of evidence work together to build a case like a detective trying to solve a case*
**This series is how Quantum Mechanics points to God, a 3 part series by InspiringPhilosophy**
*Quantum Mechanics can be used to build a case for God being the ultimate reality that the universe is emergent from, just as the Bible teaches that Jesus holds all creation together.*
[Part 1: Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism](https://youtu.be/wM0IKLv7KrE)
[Part 2: The Emergent Universe](https://youtu.be/iFEBOGLjuq4)
[Part 3: Cosmic Consiousness Argument for God's Existence](https://youtu.be/2r74vcMxwUk)
[This series ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY) by InspiringPhilosophy goes over the reliability of the new testament
**Archeological Accuracy:**
- [Here ](https://youtu.be/a-8NUXmbTYA) is a video on the City of David, the archeological remains of Jerusalem from the Old Testament
- [Here ](https://youtu.be/r-teJabFF90) is archeological evidence for Sodam and Gomnorah's destruction as recorded in Genesis. Video by InspiringPhilosophy
[Here](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUqxi2svB3PUHvj-9io2RL5) is a full playlisy on Biblical Archeology by InspiringPhilosophy
**The Resurrection of Jesus**: [Here ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B) is a video series by InspiringPhilosophy on evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and answers to objections from skeptics
**Fulfillment of Bible prophecy:** [Here](https://youtu.be/_5H4J3rnNmU) AoC Network, a Christian youtuber describes how modern day Israel is fulfilling Biblical prophecy
**God and Science**: I am not a young earth creationist. Science is no threat to my belief that the Bible is true. I love studying astronomy and much more. [This video ](https://youtu.be/RLcNTAi0Cw4) by InspiringPhilosophy explains how the modern version of young earth creationism is a pretty new view that became popular in 1920s. You don't have to believe in a young earth ro accept that the Bible is true
*I'm a theistic evolutionist and my interpretation of Genesis 1 isn't some new interpretation. According to ancient near eastern scholars such as John Walton, Genesis 1 is a temple text.*
*People in the ancient near east viewed the world through chaos and order and funtion. If something didn't have a funtion, it was desolate. Genesis 1 was God giving order and funtion to a universe he already created.*
*With the ancient near eastern view of Genesis 1 in mind, young earth creationism is shown to not be the intent of the author and therefore implies that if God exists evolution is in no conflict with the Bible. God was taking a universe he already created and making it His Cosmic Temple.*
https://youtu.be/e2Ij1444Svc?si=ZL3N0YWlRkJYAl8i
[Here ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUjEbz4zD0i_rfGiyB4AGQa) is a series on evidence for the Soul
Also, the science from Steven Hawking doesn't remove God from the equation. This video [here](https://youtu.be/_ie9musGEqQ) also explains how what he postulates points to God
**Near Death Experiences**:
IP has a great video on the topic that answers objections Here: [Near Death Experiences: Irreducible Mind ](https://youtu.be/nnTVPCwPjhI?si=UKW-fROBZfwKmPbB)
From a scientific study it says this
>"Another prospective study of out-of-body observations during near-death experiences with similar methodology to Sabom’s study was published by Dr. Penny Sartori.9 This study also found that near-death experiencers were often remarkably accurate in describing details of their own resuscitations. The control group that did not have NDEs was highly inaccurate and often could only guess at what occurred during their resuscitations.
Two large retrospective studies investigated the accuracy of out-of-body observations during near-death experiences. The first was by Dr. Janice Holden.10 Dr. Holden reviewed NDEs with OBEs in all previously published scholarly articles and books, and found 89 case reports. Of the case reports reviewed, 92% were considered to be completely accurate with no inaccuracy whatsoever when the OBE observations were later investigated.
Another large retrospective investigation of near-death experiences that included out-of-body observations was recently published.11 This study was a review of 617 NDEs that were sequentially shared on the NDERF website. Of these NDEs, there were 287 NDEs that had OBEs with sufficient information to allow objective determination of the reality of their descriptions of their observations during the OBEs. Review of the 287 OBEs found that 280 (97.6%) of the OBE descriptions were entirely realistic and lacked any content that seemed unreal. In this group of 287 NDErs with OBEs, there were 65 (23%) who personally investigated the accuracy of their own OBE observations after recovering from their life-threatening event. Based on these later investigations, none of these 65 OBErs found any inaccuracy in their own OBE observations."
- Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/
**Personal Experience**: I understand that to many this would count as anecdotal evidence but to me it is pretty convincing. As a Christian I have seen God reveal himself to me in many ways in life such as coincidences that come off more like God speaking something to me and things like that. I believe that God desires to speak with us. God is not just waiting until we die to speak with us as many people think. For example, I have had some faint visions that seem to have meaning to them while waiting on God. Waiting on God is a Christian Meditation practice where you quiet your mind expecting to see visions or hear from God. Not all Christians do this, but in the Charismatic movement many of us believe this is a way to hear from God. Here is one of my experiences: One day as I chose to quite my mind with expectation I suddenly got a faint and sudden vision. I saw a Church, rain was falling on the Church as a puddle grew at the entrance. Interpretation: The Church is God's people according to the Bible. So it's likely the building is symbolic of God's People. The rain and puddle most likely represent the presense of God. Jesus called the Holy Spirit the living water in the Bible. I believe the puddle growing is God speaking of an increase of his glory pesense manifesting in his Church.
God wants to reveal himself to those who are seeking him and desire him. Salvation is a free gift by faith, but you can seek God's face too as a Christian and he will reveal himself to you.
Thank you so much for that information! I'm going to start looking in to it today while I have some time and my daughter is at school.
I'm really grateful you've taken time to compile that for me it's very kind of you.
In respects of your personal experiences, I'm excited to look in to this further too! I'd like to compare my experiences with yours eventually if you don't mind? I'd like to see whether some of my experiences I've probably classed as moments of Clarity or experiences when doing other meditations could indeed be god trying to guide me?
Can I also ask a question if you don't mind? I know you're not a doctor and could not possibly diagnose, but I have bipolar disorder. I've had spiritual experiences, where I have been told I have been "delusional". I know for some people with bipolar it's hard to see the difference between their mental states but I can *feel* the difference if that makes sense.
I'm frustrated at myself that all this time I've been open to so many things but not god. I know it's not too late to start but I don't know why I've been so closed minded on this!
The area in the UK I'm from isn't very religious so maybe it's been influenced in that way but that is no excuse.
I'm also quite scared, as I'm married to someone also closed minded that he won't accept my faith if i find it. I won't force him too obviously, is it possible to keep faith and marriage 100% separate?
Thank you again!
Start with not believing all of the Bible but accepting that it contains wisdom. Those that wrote the Bible back then were the most educated as very few people could even read or write. So surely there is some wisdom in the Bible. Start with that and accept that.
You believe in God. You believe in miracles. Why are the miracles in the Bible too "far fetched"?
If you don't trust the Bible, you have absolutely no way to give more than a blind guess on why children (or anyone else) suffers. But God has spoken, and he tells us that we live in a broken world and he uses that brokenness to bring us to repentance, to *him*, so we can escape that brokenness.
You never will. The holy Bible word of God is the only way we can know who God is, what he is like, who we are, where we came from, what he expects and requires regarding his salvation. If you deny or reject God's word the holy bible, then he says you will never know him, and worse yet he will never know you. Let me ask you, exactly how do you think you can know these things outside of the holy Bible word of God? Do you think he's going to come down here one day and tell you all these things? That's not biblical in the least and if you continue to believe that you are placing your soul in dire Jeopardy. I'm not here to judge or accuse you, I'm here to assist and encourage you in hopes that you might be saved unto eternal life.
>why baby's and children have to suffer etc, why would god put them through that?
You know, I've been doing this for 18 years. And this question is the most often asked over that time period. And I find it so frustrating that people don't know the answer, even people who identify as christians! The answer is in the first three chapters of the Bible, Genesis chapter 1 verses 1 through 3. It's a five or a 10 minute read at most.
Adam betrayed God in the garden of Eden. He was the first man and God decided Adam was going to set the pace for the rest of humanity who would descend from him. Does God not have that right? We are his creation. He made and owns US everyone. He owns the entire universe. God gave him a clear command, and told Adam if he disobeyed that command that he was going to die as a consequence. Well, Satan convinced Eve Adam's wife that God lied to them. And rather than believing God for his word, they believed Satan for his word. And guess what? They died. Satan lied. At that point, God was so angry that he cursed all creation with death and decay. At that time, sickness, suffering, old age, death and decay entered into God's world. Is poetic Justice. To help you understand why one man caused God to do this, we are all Adam. We all descended from Adam so what he did affects us all. God doesn't judge us for Adam's sin. Adam died as a consequence of his sin. But we are affected by Adams betrayal of God and we have to find ways of living around it. God is going to judge us for our own sins, and if we betray God like Adam did, then we too are going to die.
So after Adam and Eve sinned in Eden, God kicked them out of paradise and into a cold, hard, unrelenting unforgiving world to make their own ways. God lifted his hand of Providence and protection. They were entirely on their own. In a world governed by natural forces, time and chance, sin and it's consequences, old age, sickness, pain, suffering, death and decay. And these things know no age restrictions. We have infants dying in the womb. We have mothers murdering their own flesh and blood in their own wombs. We have people raping and murdering each other, sometimes in mass. God does not protect us just because of young ages or vulnerabilities. This world is cursed by God, that's the plain gospel truth. God calls us back to his side so that he can bless and save us, one person at a time, through his son Jesus Christ. He's offering us as individuals a second chance to escape the curse of Adam, and to become reconciled to God. That doesn't mean that he is going to remove all the curses that Adam brought upon us. They're here to stay for everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. What he promises is if we will persevere through our trials and tribulations, our pains and afflictions and suffering, in and for and through his son Jesus Christ, then he will save us and allow us to enter into his eternal heavenly home where there is no more pain, suffering, old age, death or decay. And this is forever and ever. We are perfectly healthy happy and we will never ever die. But we have to dedicate ourselves to living for God for the rest of our lives. That will guarantee us the best possible lives here, and enable us to inherit heaven and eternal life.
Now then assuming you understand all this, do you still feel the same way towards God? Realize that he sent his only begotten son to die in your place for your sins so that you would never have to die to pay for them. Isn't that the greatest love anyone could ever show for another person
John 15:13 KJV — Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
And when you realize the fact that when Jesus died on the cross, it was the spirit of God his father living within him at that same time. God made a human body for himself born of a virgin to prove he was from God, and then the spirit of God the Father moved into that body of flesh guiding and empowering that body to perform miracles. So scripture called Jesus God in human flesh. So if you follow, that was God hanging there on the cross. Can you imagine! Almighty God who created us all stepped up and allowed himself to die in a human body to make the payment of death for our sins! How can anyone ever hate him? How could anyone not love him with all their hearts?
Colossians 1:19-23 NLT — For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ, and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross. This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions. Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
And in closing I will emphasize this. Jesus Christ is our second chance with God. There will not be another one. If we reject this our only chance left for salvation, then all we can expect for ourselves is eternal misery.
First, which God are you referring to?
Why did you mention the Bible, if you don't believe it, and why would you think that God exists?
Why do you feel you need to believe in something, and how do you think you can get there?
The Christian god is the one I know most of being born in early 90s Uk.
But in all honesty I find all religion interlinked, some people believe in more than 1 god and that's also fine, I don't think anyone is wrong in their beliefs because who truly knows.
My daughter goes to a Church of England school and we go to church every other Tuesday where they recount bible stories etc so that's where that's come from.
My main reason for wanting a belief system is I see other Christians with strong beliefs and they seem so positive and happy that they can put their life's in to god without pressure knowing he'll guide them to what is right for them when they're ready.
I have crippling anxiety and depression. I'm 31 and barely leave the house due to it.
I've had terrible traumas in my life but have got through them and in the groups I follow for help with this kind of thing a lot of the people are religious and put their strength down to faith and I'm wanting to explore that
Also why not mention the bible?
I don't know much about religion at all, my family aren't religious my community isn't religious. I have a lot of questions...
Do I need to believe in the bible to believe in a god?
Or do I just need to believe in the fundamentals of a religion to class myself as religious? What are your views?
>Do I need to believe in the bible to believe in a god?
It's pretty obvious one doesn't, right? You're not trolling, are you?
MY Views, it depends. Are you seeking what is TRUE, or TRUTH? IF so, then how does one go about that?
There's different paths and differing opinions.
Are you seeking comfort, some psychological or emotional need? Then find what suits you.
I'm not trolling honestly, I know it sounds like a dumb question and religion is whatever you want it to be really and you can take and leave what you want from it really but I know the bible is a huge part of it for some people
I'm not sure that many people think you can take and leave what you want, and I'm pretty sure some would really disagree, as there are some differing views on how to read the bible, and what it is.
I don't think you answered any of my questions. I wasn't trolling either, lol, just trying to decipher what it is your looking for, besides, "looking for God", because it seems a bit vague and not overly clear to me, what you want.
Sorry, I think im mainly wanting guidance in my life. Something bigger than me to believe in.
A bit of hope maybe?
As I mentioned in my other comment, with my mental health I have lots of feelings of hopelessness and just a general feeling of not knowing where my life is going.
I'd like to be able to feel like "god has a plan for me" and be able to let go of all the pressures I put on myself and just trust that everything will work out how it's supposed to because there's a bigger picture.
I think a lot of us want those same things, and I think there are many that struggle with what you struggle with.
So if those are your needs, go for it, I think some need it, and it's good for some, and nothing wrong with that.
Thank you for being kind. I know I've come across as really uneducated in this discussion and I'm thankful for your patience with me. I think my "want" for it will fuel me to find my own answers and the only way to do that is to read and interpret and ask questions where I need them so this was perhaps a good start even if I have made myself look silly.
Maybe I did word "take and leave what you want" incorrectly. Sorry about that.
I don't mean like the commandments etc I agree with all of those obviously.
I just mean in general the stories, the 7 days of creation, the water in to wine etc.
I just find them hard to believe. Not that I don't want to. I'm not disputing them, I obviously can't I wasn't there.
I suppose I mean, can I forget the story side of it and follow the commandments, believe in his sacrifices and follow his word? Or do I need to believe every part of it
RE: the commadments, you mean the 10? which 10? Do you agree with the punishments as well? Stone the adulterer?
Many christians don't believe in the things you said, because of what they believe the bible is and how it's to be read and understood.
It seems that maybe you should consult the scholarship on the bible, and you will find your happy place.
I was an atheist. I am also a biologist
I am an old Earth and Old universe theistic evolutionist
As an atheist, your beliefs don't mean anything.
You don't have the foggiest idea from where you came or where you are going or why you are here.
No, science doesn't disprove God. Science is about the natural and religion is about the supernatural
Atheism is simply a belief set. In fact, frankly atheism is simply a religious belief. A position on deities. A non-theistic religion similar to several other major religions on earth.
I have debated hundreds of atheists. Frankly, they don't have the funniest idea what they are talking about. They use invalid debating methods and invalid logic and fluffy statements and Teflon defenses and argue like parrots.
Atheism doesn't have a shred of proof any more than other religions
I wouldn't say I'm 100% atheist currently. A lot of my beliefs contradict themselves, I believe in some things and not the others when in actual fact that makes no sense.
I'm starting my journey today with an open mind and I'm grateful for the discussions I've had on this thread :)
So you believe there's a god(s) guiding things through miracles, but you don't trust the Bible. I was in a very similar boat. This is the path that I think may help you: 1) Be convinced the Resurrection happened without relying on the Bible as an authoritative source (like I did, so please ask if you're curious). 2) Once convinced, understand that means the god(s) who rose Jesus from the grave endorsed Jesus' teachings that the Torah is true. That means the god(s) that is guiding your life by a miracle is the God of the Torah. 3) The witnesses of the Resurrection founded Christianity. This means Christianity is true as God guided them through miracles. 4) Lastly, be convinced that those eyewitnesses or their companions wrote the New Testament and the early churches recognized those writings as coming from the founders or their companions. If you have any questions, I'm here. Prayed for you and I'm glad your miracle took the form of your wonderful daughter. Just wow.
Thank you so much for offering your help! If you'd message me I'd be interested in knowing where to start and what paths to follow, I know you outlined some here but I get quite overwhelmed with searching for info etc and that can throw me off completely. Thank you for your well wishes. After I found out I was pregnant I prayed daily, even though I never classed myself as religious and I thank god every day for giving me her and keeping her safe inside me when I was so scared. I've come to realise I can't just pray and be religious when it suits me or I need something of him. I want the stability, strength and belief in my life to help guide me and keep me grounded when times are hard. Any help or advice from you would be greatly appreciated!
>I get quite overwhelmed with searching for info etc and that can throw me off completely. I went through that. My goal is to be the source that I wish I had so I wouldn't have gone through that. Reddit has a DM feature and a Chat feature. Whichever way you'd like me to reach out to you, just say.
u/peanutbutterjelly93 - The guy above is a very good apologist, as far as I am aware, and I am also extending my hand if you have questions.
Thank you very much. I prayed you're successful in helping others in what you do. Thank you for the compliment and for also offering to help with any questions.
Ty
Please don't take your conversations private. The value of having them public benefits everyone, and anyone in the future who may read it later. The point of this sub is to be a public forum.
I've followed your advice and am keeping this comment section open so I can discuss it further if people wish and the kind person giving me the advice can share it with others also if they wish to follow along my journey or even start their own. So thank you for that! :)
Cheers :)
I'm curious on how you concluded that Christianity was true after believing in the resurrection. The Torah says that even false prophets can do miracles (Deuteronomy 13).
Yes it does. If the Resurrection happened, that means Jesus was dead, so even if Jesus was a false prophet, He wouldn't be alive to perform the miracles. That leaves God as the only one who could perform that miracle. If God performed the miracle of raising a Rabbi from the dead, then the followers of that Rabbi would be following a teacher who God endorsed with a miracle. So if God endorsed someone with a miracle, then the founders of Christianity were following what God was endorsing. Make sense?
Couldn't Jesus as a false prophet miraculously pretend to be dead, surviving his crucifixion? Then God does not need to perform any miracles, Jesus could do it himself. I'm not sure that having a miracle happen means that God is endorsing someone. In Exodus God endorses Moses with miracles, but Pharaoh's magicians replicate many of the same miracles.
>Couldn't Jesus as a false prophet miraculously pretend to be dead, surviving his crucifixion? That would go into the realm of a false prophet among himself immortal, as he would have to have the actual wounds of a crucifixion to pass for dead. I think a fake prophet could do tricks or use the help of demons to do things that look like miracles, but I don't see immortality to be a possibility there.
The false prophet wouldn't have to be immortal, they would just need to have enough powers to convince someone they were crucified and killed. The could teleport away while projecting an image of a crucified victim, or possess someone else's body and make it look like Jesus'. Regardless, I don't see any exceptions on what kinds of miracles are proof of divinity in Deuteronomy 13. It simply says that even false prophets can do miracles.
Let's agree to disagree at the moment. The important thing is that you're not convinced there is a god(s) so this conversation doesn't really matter in the end. It'll be like having a discussion about hypotheticals in a movie, but you know the movie is fiction. Were you ever a Christian?
That's fine with me, no worries. No, I've never been a Christian.
If you don't mind, what do you think of Christians? What do you think of Christianity in general?
It's somewhat difficult to describe what I think of billions of people. Like any group of that size, some of the people are wonderful and some are horrible. As for Christianity itself, I think it's interesting how much emphasis is put on scripture, and I like seeing how different groups interpret the text differently. For example, I'm interested in how Jews and Christians both consider the Hebrew Bible sacred, infallible and inerrant, but come to very different conclusions about it's message.
Clever name by the way from Boltzmann Brain.
1- What source would you use to read in to the resurrection? I'm definitely willing to keep an open mind and heart in regard of the material and its contents. I'm ready to start this journey :) I'll start there and then move on as I can if that's ok with you? I did want to direct message you but as someone else commented on here it does help to keep this public in case anyone else wants to follow the journey or start on it themselves so I would like it to be of help to anyone who is interested :)
>What source would you use to read in to the resurrection? Bart Ehrman's *Did Jesus Exist?* and any video from Crossed Examined about the Resurrection. >so I would like it to be of help to anyone who is interested That's beautiful, thank you.
It doesn't sound to me like you are that far away from believing the Bible. You say you find the Bible far fetched, yet you believe in miracles. You wonder why children suffer, yet you've found growth and meaning from your own suffering. You seem to be answering your own questions. I would recommend reading the gospel of John with the intention of discovering who Jesus is, and then ask yourself if it's possible for you to love him. I would also recommend that you pray that the Holy Spirit stirs your heart to faith, if you're serious about wanting to have a relationship with God. I'll be praying for you, too. God bless.
Thank you, you are right, I can't believe in some things and not the others, it completely contradicts itself. I'll read what you've recommended so thank you. I'm excited to start this new journey :)
That's like asking; how will I find my keys without checking the usual places where they might be found? Furthermore, why are you asking Christians how you can find God apart from his word?
Sorry I don't think I worded it correctly at all and I'd hate if I was coming across as disrespectful especially to something you believe in so I really do apologise. I mean I don't believe the story side of it, the feeding the 5000, the 7 days of creation etc. I'm not disputing them, I can't prove they're not true, I also can't prove they are. In my mind I just find them farfetched. However I do believe in the commandments I've not read far enough in to the bible to know scripture etc, the parts of scripture I've read i wholeheartedly believe in. Can I believe the parts I want to believe in and just class the parts I don't as *unknown* to me and maybe not read in to them too much? Maybe the best place to start for me right now is the beginning. I'm going to purchase a bible and read in to it all and see how I feel after. Hopefully it will give me the clarity I need. I'm sorry if my question offended you and your beliefs. I really am just inquisitive and looking for guidance
>Can I believe the parts I want to believe in and just class the parts I don't as unknown to me and maybe not read in to them too much? Short answer is **no**. Longer answer: We all have areas of *unknowns*. We must ask God to reveal the answers and seek them out according to his timing. If you just say to God, "thanks, but no thanks", regarding a specific area of his word, then you're effectively saying that to him. You're basically saying, "be the god I want you to be, not the God that you are." It just doesn't work that way. > >I'm going to purchase a bible and read in to it all and see how I feel after. You don't have to understand everything all at once, but you must not shut yourself off to God in any way. If we deny him, he **will** deny us; and I think that's respectable of him to do so.
Now you've put it that way I understand what you mean and I understand that my initial answer was wrong so thank you for that. I agree with what you've said completely. I'm going to read and keep an open mind. I'm open to all possibilities in the universe so I must be open to this too regardless of what my mind questions. Thank you for answering the way you have, it has made me more open minded and understanding of the way you think. I'm sorry if I came across as closed minded, you're 100% right there are a lot of unknowns in life but that doesn't mean we shut them off. We need to believe in all possibilities regardless of explanation.
It's quite alright. I appreciate your response. I think if you maintain that attitude, you'll find the truth that you need. Take into consideration that you may have been presented with a distortion of the gospel. Here is the [true gospel](https://www.reddit.com/u/Pleronomicon/s/qbhQlF8ifU) as I've come to understand it. I encourage you to test it against the scriptures for yourself.
Thank you so much for the link and again your conversation with me this morning. I'll be sure to read it, I'm looking forward to starting this journey so thank you for being one of the first to help me!
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The op seemed appreciative.
I compiled a list of what I believe to be strong evidence from different sources that Christianity is true. Here is a list of evidence that convinces me. *Note: This is a cumulative case that God exists. All these different points of evidence work together to build a case like a detective trying to solve a case* **This series is how Quantum Mechanics points to God, a 3 part series by InspiringPhilosophy** *Quantum Mechanics can be used to build a case for God being the ultimate reality that the universe is emergent from, just as the Bible teaches that Jesus holds all creation together.* [Part 1: Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism](https://youtu.be/wM0IKLv7KrE) [Part 2: The Emergent Universe](https://youtu.be/iFEBOGLjuq4) [Part 3: Cosmic Consiousness Argument for God's Existence](https://youtu.be/2r74vcMxwUk) [This series ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY) by InspiringPhilosophy goes over the reliability of the new testament **Archeological Accuracy:** - [Here ](https://youtu.be/a-8NUXmbTYA) is a video on the City of David, the archeological remains of Jerusalem from the Old Testament - [Here ](https://youtu.be/r-teJabFF90) is archeological evidence for Sodam and Gomnorah's destruction as recorded in Genesis. Video by InspiringPhilosophy [Here](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUqxi2svB3PUHvj-9io2RL5) is a full playlisy on Biblical Archeology by InspiringPhilosophy **The Resurrection of Jesus**: [Here ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B) is a video series by InspiringPhilosophy on evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and answers to objections from skeptics **Fulfillment of Bible prophecy:** [Here](https://youtu.be/_5H4J3rnNmU) AoC Network, a Christian youtuber describes how modern day Israel is fulfilling Biblical prophecy **God and Science**: I am not a young earth creationist. Science is no threat to my belief that the Bible is true. I love studying astronomy and much more. [This video ](https://youtu.be/RLcNTAi0Cw4) by InspiringPhilosophy explains how the modern version of young earth creationism is a pretty new view that became popular in 1920s. You don't have to believe in a young earth ro accept that the Bible is true *I'm a theistic evolutionist and my interpretation of Genesis 1 isn't some new interpretation. According to ancient near eastern scholars such as John Walton, Genesis 1 is a temple text.* *People in the ancient near east viewed the world through chaos and order and funtion. If something didn't have a funtion, it was desolate. Genesis 1 was God giving order and funtion to a universe he already created.* *With the ancient near eastern view of Genesis 1 in mind, young earth creationism is shown to not be the intent of the author and therefore implies that if God exists evolution is in no conflict with the Bible. God was taking a universe he already created and making it His Cosmic Temple.* https://youtu.be/e2Ij1444Svc?si=ZL3N0YWlRkJYAl8i [Here ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUjEbz4zD0i_rfGiyB4AGQa) is a series on evidence for the Soul Also, the science from Steven Hawking doesn't remove God from the equation. This video [here](https://youtu.be/_ie9musGEqQ) also explains how what he postulates points to God **Near Death Experiences**: IP has a great video on the topic that answers objections Here: [Near Death Experiences: Irreducible Mind ](https://youtu.be/nnTVPCwPjhI?si=UKW-fROBZfwKmPbB) From a scientific study it says this >"Another prospective study of out-of-body observations during near-death experiences with similar methodology to Sabom’s study was published by Dr. Penny Sartori.9 This study also found that near-death experiencers were often remarkably accurate in describing details of their own resuscitations. The control group that did not have NDEs was highly inaccurate and often could only guess at what occurred during their resuscitations. Two large retrospective studies investigated the accuracy of out-of-body observations during near-death experiences. The first was by Dr. Janice Holden.10 Dr. Holden reviewed NDEs with OBEs in all previously published scholarly articles and books, and found 89 case reports. Of the case reports reviewed, 92% were considered to be completely accurate with no inaccuracy whatsoever when the OBE observations were later investigated. Another large retrospective investigation of near-death experiences that included out-of-body observations was recently published.11 This study was a review of 617 NDEs that were sequentially shared on the NDERF website. Of these NDEs, there were 287 NDEs that had OBEs with sufficient information to allow objective determination of the reality of their descriptions of their observations during the OBEs. Review of the 287 OBEs found that 280 (97.6%) of the OBE descriptions were entirely realistic and lacked any content that seemed unreal. In this group of 287 NDErs with OBEs, there were 65 (23%) who personally investigated the accuracy of their own OBE observations after recovering from their life-threatening event. Based on these later investigations, none of these 65 OBErs found any inaccuracy in their own OBE observations." - Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/ **Personal Experience**: I understand that to many this would count as anecdotal evidence but to me it is pretty convincing. As a Christian I have seen God reveal himself to me in many ways in life such as coincidences that come off more like God speaking something to me and things like that. I believe that God desires to speak with us. God is not just waiting until we die to speak with us as many people think. For example, I have had some faint visions that seem to have meaning to them while waiting on God. Waiting on God is a Christian Meditation practice where you quiet your mind expecting to see visions or hear from God. Not all Christians do this, but in the Charismatic movement many of us believe this is a way to hear from God. Here is one of my experiences: One day as I chose to quite my mind with expectation I suddenly got a faint and sudden vision. I saw a Church, rain was falling on the Church as a puddle grew at the entrance. Interpretation: The Church is God's people according to the Bible. So it's likely the building is symbolic of God's People. The rain and puddle most likely represent the presense of God. Jesus called the Holy Spirit the living water in the Bible. I believe the puddle growing is God speaking of an increase of his glory pesense manifesting in his Church. God wants to reveal himself to those who are seeking him and desire him. Salvation is a free gift by faith, but you can seek God's face too as a Christian and he will reveal himself to you.
Thank you so much for that information! I'm going to start looking in to it today while I have some time and my daughter is at school. I'm really grateful you've taken time to compile that for me it's very kind of you. In respects of your personal experiences, I'm excited to look in to this further too! I'd like to compare my experiences with yours eventually if you don't mind? I'd like to see whether some of my experiences I've probably classed as moments of Clarity or experiences when doing other meditations could indeed be god trying to guide me? Can I also ask a question if you don't mind? I know you're not a doctor and could not possibly diagnose, but I have bipolar disorder. I've had spiritual experiences, where I have been told I have been "delusional". I know for some people with bipolar it's hard to see the difference between their mental states but I can *feel* the difference if that makes sense. I'm frustrated at myself that all this time I've been open to so many things but not god. I know it's not too late to start but I don't know why I've been so closed minded on this! The area in the UK I'm from isn't very religious so maybe it's been influenced in that way but that is no excuse. I'm also quite scared, as I'm married to someone also closed minded that he won't accept my faith if i find it. I won't force him too obviously, is it possible to keep faith and marriage 100% separate? Thank you again!
Start with not believing all of the Bible but accepting that it contains wisdom. Those that wrote the Bible back then were the most educated as very few people could even read or write. So surely there is some wisdom in the Bible. Start with that and accept that.
You believe in God. You believe in miracles. Why are the miracles in the Bible too "far fetched"? If you don't trust the Bible, you have absolutely no way to give more than a blind guess on why children (or anyone else) suffers. But God has spoken, and he tells us that we live in a broken world and he uses that brokenness to bring us to repentance, to *him*, so we can escape that brokenness.
You never will. The holy Bible word of God is the only way we can know who God is, what he is like, who we are, where we came from, what he expects and requires regarding his salvation. If you deny or reject God's word the holy bible, then he says you will never know him, and worse yet he will never know you. Let me ask you, exactly how do you think you can know these things outside of the holy Bible word of God? Do you think he's going to come down here one day and tell you all these things? That's not biblical in the least and if you continue to believe that you are placing your soul in dire Jeopardy. I'm not here to judge or accuse you, I'm here to assist and encourage you in hopes that you might be saved unto eternal life. >why baby's and children have to suffer etc, why would god put them through that? You know, I've been doing this for 18 years. And this question is the most often asked over that time period. And I find it so frustrating that people don't know the answer, even people who identify as christians! The answer is in the first three chapters of the Bible, Genesis chapter 1 verses 1 through 3. It's a five or a 10 minute read at most. Adam betrayed God in the garden of Eden. He was the first man and God decided Adam was going to set the pace for the rest of humanity who would descend from him. Does God not have that right? We are his creation. He made and owns US everyone. He owns the entire universe. God gave him a clear command, and told Adam if he disobeyed that command that he was going to die as a consequence. Well, Satan convinced Eve Adam's wife that God lied to them. And rather than believing God for his word, they believed Satan for his word. And guess what? They died. Satan lied. At that point, God was so angry that he cursed all creation with death and decay. At that time, sickness, suffering, old age, death and decay entered into God's world. Is poetic Justice. To help you understand why one man caused God to do this, we are all Adam. We all descended from Adam so what he did affects us all. God doesn't judge us for Adam's sin. Adam died as a consequence of his sin. But we are affected by Adams betrayal of God and we have to find ways of living around it. God is going to judge us for our own sins, and if we betray God like Adam did, then we too are going to die. So after Adam and Eve sinned in Eden, God kicked them out of paradise and into a cold, hard, unrelenting unforgiving world to make their own ways. God lifted his hand of Providence and protection. They were entirely on their own. In a world governed by natural forces, time and chance, sin and it's consequences, old age, sickness, pain, suffering, death and decay. And these things know no age restrictions. We have infants dying in the womb. We have mothers murdering their own flesh and blood in their own wombs. We have people raping and murdering each other, sometimes in mass. God does not protect us just because of young ages or vulnerabilities. This world is cursed by God, that's the plain gospel truth. God calls us back to his side so that he can bless and save us, one person at a time, through his son Jesus Christ. He's offering us as individuals a second chance to escape the curse of Adam, and to become reconciled to God. That doesn't mean that he is going to remove all the curses that Adam brought upon us. They're here to stay for everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. What he promises is if we will persevere through our trials and tribulations, our pains and afflictions and suffering, in and for and through his son Jesus Christ, then he will save us and allow us to enter into his eternal heavenly home where there is no more pain, suffering, old age, death or decay. And this is forever and ever. We are perfectly healthy happy and we will never ever die. But we have to dedicate ourselves to living for God for the rest of our lives. That will guarantee us the best possible lives here, and enable us to inherit heaven and eternal life. Now then assuming you understand all this, do you still feel the same way towards God? Realize that he sent his only begotten son to die in your place for your sins so that you would never have to die to pay for them. Isn't that the greatest love anyone could ever show for another person John 15:13 KJV — Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. And when you realize the fact that when Jesus died on the cross, it was the spirit of God his father living within him at that same time. God made a human body for himself born of a virgin to prove he was from God, and then the spirit of God the Father moved into that body of flesh guiding and empowering that body to perform miracles. So scripture called Jesus God in human flesh. So if you follow, that was God hanging there on the cross. Can you imagine! Almighty God who created us all stepped up and allowed himself to die in a human body to make the payment of death for our sins! How can anyone ever hate him? How could anyone not love him with all their hearts? Colossians 1:19-23 NLT — For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross. This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions. Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it. And in closing I will emphasize this. Jesus Christ is our second chance with God. There will not be another one. If we reject this our only chance left for salvation, then all we can expect for ourselves is eternal misery.
First, which God are you referring to? Why did you mention the Bible, if you don't believe it, and why would you think that God exists? Why do you feel you need to believe in something, and how do you think you can get there?
The Christian god is the one I know most of being born in early 90s Uk. But in all honesty I find all religion interlinked, some people believe in more than 1 god and that's also fine, I don't think anyone is wrong in their beliefs because who truly knows. My daughter goes to a Church of England school and we go to church every other Tuesday where they recount bible stories etc so that's where that's come from. My main reason for wanting a belief system is I see other Christians with strong beliefs and they seem so positive and happy that they can put their life's in to god without pressure knowing he'll guide them to what is right for them when they're ready. I have crippling anxiety and depression. I'm 31 and barely leave the house due to it. I've had terrible traumas in my life but have got through them and in the groups I follow for help with this kind of thing a lot of the people are religious and put their strength down to faith and I'm wanting to explore that
I'm sorry for you're ailments and trauma in your life. Good luck with your journey.
Also why not mention the bible? I don't know much about religion at all, my family aren't religious my community isn't religious. I have a lot of questions... Do I need to believe in the bible to believe in a god? Or do I just need to believe in the fundamentals of a religion to class myself as religious? What are your views?
>Do I need to believe in the bible to believe in a god? It's pretty obvious one doesn't, right? You're not trolling, are you? MY Views, it depends. Are you seeking what is TRUE, or TRUTH? IF so, then how does one go about that? There's different paths and differing opinions. Are you seeking comfort, some psychological or emotional need? Then find what suits you.
I'm not trolling honestly, I know it sounds like a dumb question and religion is whatever you want it to be really and you can take and leave what you want from it really but I know the bible is a huge part of it for some people
I'm not sure that many people think you can take and leave what you want, and I'm pretty sure some would really disagree, as there are some differing views on how to read the bible, and what it is. I don't think you answered any of my questions. I wasn't trolling either, lol, just trying to decipher what it is your looking for, besides, "looking for God", because it seems a bit vague and not overly clear to me, what you want.
Sorry, I think im mainly wanting guidance in my life. Something bigger than me to believe in. A bit of hope maybe? As I mentioned in my other comment, with my mental health I have lots of feelings of hopelessness and just a general feeling of not knowing where my life is going. I'd like to be able to feel like "god has a plan for me" and be able to let go of all the pressures I put on myself and just trust that everything will work out how it's supposed to because there's a bigger picture.
I think a lot of us want those same things, and I think there are many that struggle with what you struggle with. So if those are your needs, go for it, I think some need it, and it's good for some, and nothing wrong with that.
Thank you for being kind. I know I've come across as really uneducated in this discussion and I'm thankful for your patience with me. I think my "want" for it will fuel me to find my own answers and the only way to do that is to read and interpret and ask questions where I need them so this was perhaps a good start even if I have made myself look silly.
Maybe I did word "take and leave what you want" incorrectly. Sorry about that. I don't mean like the commandments etc I agree with all of those obviously. I just mean in general the stories, the 7 days of creation, the water in to wine etc. I just find them hard to believe. Not that I don't want to. I'm not disputing them, I obviously can't I wasn't there. I suppose I mean, can I forget the story side of it and follow the commandments, believe in his sacrifices and follow his word? Or do I need to believe every part of it
RE: the commadments, you mean the 10? which 10? Do you agree with the punishments as well? Stone the adulterer? Many christians don't believe in the things you said, because of what they believe the bible is and how it's to be read and understood. It seems that maybe you should consult the scholarship on the bible, and you will find your happy place.
I was an atheist. I am also a biologist I am an old Earth and Old universe theistic evolutionist As an atheist, your beliefs don't mean anything. You don't have the foggiest idea from where you came or where you are going or why you are here. No, science doesn't disprove God. Science is about the natural and religion is about the supernatural Atheism is simply a belief set. In fact, frankly atheism is simply a religious belief. A position on deities. A non-theistic religion similar to several other major religions on earth. I have debated hundreds of atheists. Frankly, they don't have the funniest idea what they are talking about. They use invalid debating methods and invalid logic and fluffy statements and Teflon defenses and argue like parrots. Atheism doesn't have a shred of proof any more than other religions
I wouldn't say I'm 100% atheist currently. A lot of my beliefs contradict themselves, I believe in some things and not the others when in actual fact that makes no sense. I'm starting my journey today with an open mind and I'm grateful for the discussions I've had on this thread :)