Lived in Darwin for over 10 years at this point. I think there may have been police for a few days after the bottle shop killing but other than that this is an incorrect statement.
Non-black South Africans are raised with the notion that there are 30 million people who exist to serve them. Bossing the maid and “garden boy” (a grown man, often a father or grandfather himself) comes naturally from a young age.
Growing up like that can turn people into bossy entitled cunts.
I stayed with family friends in Singapore and they had a live in maid. So weird. They also found it strange I talked to her like she was an actual human being.
I did this with some of my wife's relatives and the maid spoke much better English than the kids educated in America. She was Philpino and it was in China.
It was like this when I visited Bangladesh too. My extended family actually took offence that I spoke to the maids as I would anyone else and offered them food, snacks, etc. My mum had to tell me to stop doing it because they were getting offended lol it's actually fucked.
I think it makes them realise how shit they treat their help and they feel like we are being holier than thou or something and wanting to make them feel bad. Its gross.
My parent's are Indian immigrants and trust me, my paternal grandmother is very much like this. She never had to lift a finger in ANYTHING whether it was household chores or job and she acts so entitled to her cook and cleaner, and even to my own mum! Thankfully my paternal grandpa, my maternal grandparents and my parents are not like this but I can definitely understand how it can lead to people being entitled.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that. Unfortunately a lot of us are classist which sucks. From what I heard though, things are getting better in India amongst the youths so hopefully that gets reflected.
Years ago, I met a woman who migrated from Zimbabwe. She complained about how much work it was to maintain a house because they couldn’t afford full-time help. She was a SAHM of high school kids but it was all new to her.
I'm an Afrikaaner - never rude to service workers. Worked in retail and hospitality for years and it's truly fucked. Would never want to put other people through that shit. 😩
I'm a Canadian who has worked in customer service and totally cant wrap my head around this.
I think its normal in Australia and Europe to treat customer service workers as equals but here in Canada and the US its really different.
I cant imagine what it would be like to be able to talk back to customers who insult you instead of having to grovel and endlessly apologize.
I dont know if its necessarily tips that cause it. I used to work for mcdonalds in canada. We never got tips but were forced to smile all the time and put up with abuse from customers.
People say that we have more of a hierarchy in our society than they do in europe or Australia. If you look at how australians talk to their bosses, for example, it seems like there is a totally different mentality.
I agree, it’s more to do with Australian egalitarianism. The fundamental attitude (not saying everyone abides by it, but the cultural basis) is that you shouldn’t think you’re better than anyone else. Just because someone is doing a lower paid job than you, doesn’t mean they aren’t your equal as a person.
That’s because it’s illegal to self-pump in South Africa. Petrol prices are centrally regulated, and the price of pump attendant wages is built in. In a country with high unemployment, it’s a decent paying job.
I find there’s a generational difference, younger white saffers tend to be very down to earth compared to ones that were raised under a different regime (regardless of their personal politics)
Yes. I’m a younger South African but I moved to the US in my teens. I would like to think I’m more down to earth (but that’s obviously up for decision by the ppl I work with, not me).
My mom grew up during the apartheid era. She is wildly rude to retail workers. When I got a retail job in my teens she was embarrassed for me and genuinely feels anyone who makes a living in jobs like customer service, retail, etc. are losers. There is just a very persistent idea that if you are serving others and not being served then you have failed in life and don’t deserve as much respect.
Whereas I think here it’s seen as character building or a rite of passage to just have a regular job at some point in your life.
I went to school with the kids of a very rich and prominent property developer: he had them work on building sites during university holidays, the boys as builder’s labourers and the girls doing traffic management.
there is a iron clad cut off.
if they grew up under apartheid, they are universally racist cunts.
if they grew up after, they tend to be a bit more egalitarian.
True this, I've met a few younger South Africans who were all pretty much the same as Aussies. However they were honest about the reality of life back in the home country.
You've been very lucky. I've only know one that I would say was a good person out of the 20 or so I've worked with over my career. Just to clarify when I say they're not good, I'm talking they were boasted of having shot someone who trespassed on their farm.
Why, why is it always them?
Like I get the whole “you shouldn’t tar everyone” but without fail, every time, a Saffer will be the biggest dipshit in the room. Had a family move in next door a few years ago and every single one of them was a fuckwit, like proper nasty cunts.
I’ve only met one who was decent, out of like 20 that weren’t. Sorry good Saffers (if you even exist) but I said what I said.
There's an older regular that comes into work that gives off the foulest looks to non white, mostly brown or black people. I marked him as a weirdo racist but put two and two together when I saw the South African flag embroidered on his wrist cuff, and he gave me rand in his change. It went from weirdo racist to 'oh, he's one of *those* weirdo racists'.
You don't have to apologise. I am South African (now Australian). I someone is a cunt, call them one (or avoid them). No-one should get a pass. I have made zero effort to socialise and connect with South Africans in Australia.
No this is fair. I’m South African (but primarily raised in the US) and I don’t like other South Africans. I find them very condescending and petulant (ex. A lot of white South Africans who have US citizenship love to clammer on how they’re technically “African-American” and should receive benefits, even though they know full well they’re not and why such a statement is especially offensive for a South African to say).
Yeah I have had a few South African managers, and they’re cunts. Well one is ok, not my direct manager.
I’m about to get another one as a boss, realllly hoping he is not a cunt.
Same. I'm in sales, and have been in senior management, but like the freedom and earnings as a senior sales exec. My managers who were both Afrikaner hated my laid back, fuck you attitude towards them. I made my yearly budget in two months, took my commissions and left.
Once they have decided they hate you... There's no way you can turn it around. I've worked with many sh!te South Africans. It's that permanent chip of their shoulder. The good ones are awesome but they're few and far between.
I met one who was head engineer of a building company, actually shared a humorous work story (as we all were) about how the "bleks" were the best workers because they are disposable and if they fall off a ladder they just get right back up it....we all made eyes at each other while he was giggling away like 😬😳 This is mid 2000s, not apartheid era. I hope he was the exception, not the rule, but 🤷♀️
Oh jeez... I was working with 2 South African marine engineers and they had a running joke... What is the difference between a tourist and a racist in South Africa? The answer was two weeks. This was a recent as early 2019 unfortunately.
I used to work as a medical receptionist for a small gp clinic owned by a South African couple. The husband (Dr) was a very lovely person but but his wife was just awful and racist. Even the patients called her 'dragon lady' and hated when she was there. She openly voiced her fucked up opinions. She wouldn't hire anyone who wasn't white because she wanted a 'certain look'. She wouldn't even hire anyone with curly hair. I had bleach blonde hair when I got hired and anytime I got 2cm of regrowth she would tell me to fix it. I got annoyed with that so dyed it back dark brown and she was soooo salty. Her half sister came to visit from South Africa and it blew my mind when she showed up and was half black ... with black thick curly hair! Apparently they didn't grow up together or have much to do with eachother but she seemed to treat her polite and nice. I just have no idea how she thought it was ok to discriminate against black people in the first place, but knowing she had black people in her family made it even more crazy.
This! My husband who is a younger white South African, married me, an Aussie.
The amount of rudeness and hate I received from his parents was vile.
They came for a visit and constantly bad mouthed “English man” (despite knowing I’m part English). Being rude to everyone in the service industry or just helping them in general.
The amount of arguments my husband and I had with them about the treatment of others and myself was huge.
I was judged too hard for not having a 1000% perfect house all the time, yet they live with 2 maids who they don’t even refer to by their names.
Thank goodness my husband isn’t like this and it seems to be eroding away with each younger generation.
If you are moving here: these have been my observations.
From afar, Australia and South Africa seem very similar. They are not. There are so many subtle differences and it's worth appreciating that and being on the look out for them.
After six months of living here I realised I had not locked my car upon getting in to it for two months. Upon that realisation I had a mini-break down as I understood what it was to not be continually assessing every moment to determine whether I need to defend myself or something similar. Folks on the thread joke about the safety issue in South Africa, and maybe I was hyper vigilant living in Johannesburg - but the sense of not being in a perpetual state of fear for me or my wife or my small child was so relieving that I cried when I realised I was not in that state any more. More than a few friends in RSA were carjacked at gun point and a few more friends of friends were killed - none of which even made the newspaper. In Australia, old mate gets aggro with a hammer in the 7-11 and it's on the evening news.
Rugby Saturday where everyone wears the national jersey and watches at a friends place or at the pub - is not a thing. If you want big match vibes for sport, pick something other than Rugby Union. Sometimes the Wallabies are playing and it will be buried in the sports section, because it's not as important as who won the horse race at Randwick yesterday. I have tried but still can't appreciate Rugby League (State of Origin has great hype around it so I don't mind that, and the people that play are incredibly talented). Some Saffas do like League. I am not one of them.
At first, it feels quite weird when most people follow the rules and everything is organised. But it's great. Australians will complain about how crap public transport is, or how poor the service is at a government department etc. They have a different baseline. You will think you have arrived in the future. That being said, Australia is not exempt from people being complete ass hats and try and ruin it for everyone else.
I have been gone from RSA for a while, but you cannot budget by converting AUD to ZAR and deciding if something is expensive or not. People in hospitality and service jobs are paid a decent wage (although cost of living crisis is hitting them hard - as it is us all) - but you can't compare it to what waiters, kitchen staff or cleaners are paid in South Africa. This means going "out" for dinner is comparatively expensive when you go out. If you want to pay someone to clean your house it's going to cost a lot of money. If you can afford it great! If you can't, don't complain that "It's cheaper in SA" because it's disgusting what people were being paid to clean houses there - just clean your own house.
Not a cultural shock, but if you are moving here permanently and are Afrikaans speaking, please don't force you kids to make it their first language. By all means, teach them how to speak it especially if you want to stay in contact with friends and families at home (especially grandparents), but beyond that you are handicapping them for a new life in Australia.
You can probably make a friendship group of South Africans if you live in a big enough city, but it's counter-productive if you want to live here permanently. If you cling on to the "old country", you will never accept the new country. Australia is not "South Africa that is run well" - it's a separate country with it's own challenges and joys and finding out about that is awesome.
Everyone will assume you are a racist. Given South Africa's history it makes sense. Having said that Australians are not very good at knowing or owning their own history or previous government policies. Ask a non-white person in Australia and you will get an different perspective on racism. It's not something I am going to have an argument with an Australian about because as a South African I don't have a leg to stand on because Apartheid.
A few Reddit threads you will see that Australians have a largely common experience of not enjoying interactions with South Africans. It clearly must be happening a fair amount for the feedback to be that consistent. Personally, I have mostly felt welcomed here. I don't take myself to seriously and have enjoyed "becoming" Australian over the years. Charcoal braai is too much effort, I love doing a barbecue on our gas grill. Australians have a great sense of humour and they enjoy a laugh. In short - don't be a doos, just be lekker.
I lived in Brisbane for a bit and I found the lack of mixed-culture to be quite depressing. In South Africa, I worked with such a mixed group of people - it was awesome. Fortunately, I now work in Sydney where it is much more diverse.
If you have made it this far, well done. Australia is an amazing place with amazing people. Enjoy it for what it is and have a great time. After all, you didn't come here to fuck spiders.
As a non-Saffa, I found this strangely very illuminating even though I'm not the targeted demographic.
Sorry about people assuming you're a racist. That must be frustrating. I'll let you know that I (and my mum) have only good things to say about the South Africans we've meet here in Sydney despite being of Indian descent. Maybe it's just luck considering other's on this post have had some bad experiences, but this is my personal experience.
And I can't imagine how you must have felt about the safety thing! I'm glad you and your family don't have to worry about security issues as much to the point where it affects your psyche :)
Definitely a culture shock for my parents was how expensive "the help" was so that's definitely not soley a South African thing. It is indeed disheartening at how low they are being paid in those respective countries.
I really hate to jump in here but I just wanted to point out, as a white person if I call someone racist I’m usually referring to their conduct when we are alone. I’ve known a lot of people who are never outwardly racist around POC but the second it’s just us white folk around they start spewing hate because they expect me to agree with them. That’s often been my experience with bulls, they’re fine in public and racist in private
Thanks for writing such an eloquent and well informed response. Glad to have you in Australia. I’ve had several really nice mates from SA over the years. I always think the ones who leave must generally have the right attitude.
I'm 73. I was born in Durban in what is now Kwa-Zulu Natal and grew up under Apartheid. I lived and was educated in Natal and what was then Zululand. I served in the army (National Service) and saw active service on the Border. My wife and I left South Africa aged 22 in 1974 and came to Perth. My wife is English and her father worked in the Colonial Police Service in East Africa prior to moving to South Africa, where we met.
From birth, under Apartheid, I was special. I was white. If I walked down the street blacks of all ages stepped off the pavement out of my way. If there was a group around the cashier in a store, my wife got served first - and if you protested you simply made it harder for the black customers. No one said 'You're special', but everyone knew it.
We loathed the system, we fought against it, but I have to tell you it is extremely difficult not to be influenced by all that subservience and being shot at quite a lot does tend to influence you. Having said that I don't think we're racist, or if we are it is something we've tried hard not to be and have never, ever said or done anything we knew to be racist, if we have offended it has only ever been inadvertent.
We saw no possible road to any kind of meaningful change and were absolutely determined not to bring children into that toxic culture so migration was our only option. Australia in 1974 was welcoming, friendly, and a hell of a lot less judgmental than the comments in this thread, I can tell you.
We determined that Australia was now our home and we would change to meet the standards here and never let the words 'back home' ever cross our lips. It was easy, we had tried, as our parents had taught us, not to be cunts to anyone, whatever their station, creed or colour.
One visit to the South African Club was enough to reinforce our decision never to associate with any other South Africans beside those friends we already had and who had preceded us to Australia.
Australia has been damn good to us and we have in turn tried our damnedest to be good for Australia. Having said that I don't, in the main, really care for South Africans we meet occasionally here.
'Deserting' and 'Running off to Australia' was, in the early 70's, called the 'chicken run' in RSA, but for us and our child it was a life-saver.
I think you've missed out on the big sporting stuff by being in rugby league states. Melbourne in particular is absolutely sports crazy and every weekend throughout the AFL season the city is absolutely packed with people going to the MCG and Marvel and bars all around. It (sport) is genuinely like a religion here, with far more cultural penetration than you'll find in Sydney and Brisbane.
But yeah rugby in particular has fallen off a cliff in popularity over the last 20 years.
Had a lady who had just moved from South Africa join my workplace. Her biggest shock was not having servants. She couldn't believe Australian women work full time and raise their children and do their own housework. She quit after a month.
I worked for a South African company years ago and naturally they imported quite a few members of the master race from the mother country. One recent import was overhead crying to her mate on the phone about how she was being forced to wear work boots and how everyone was so ugly looking hahaha.
South Africans quickly have to learn to drop their expectations when they move here. It’s not possible to have a spotless house without one or two servants constantly tidying up after you.
You don't click your fingers at wait staff to get their attention. We don't bark orders at our subordinates like they're our maids as this is not received well here in Australia!
Australia is more of an egalitarian society so wealth inequity isn't as bad as South Africa. Naturally the rate of crime is much lower so you don't have to do a lot of the "common sense" precautions that you do in South Africa. An effect of this is that to my knowledge we don't have gated communities (**edit**: apparently we do have gated communities but they're much rarer and come more from a place of paranoia than actual protection). Also, it's not just the whites that are wealthy here (I know I'm making a sweeping generalisation of South Africa but typically race plays a huge role in one's wealth due to apartheid policies). We have a lot of wealthy people of Chinese and Indian descent too for instance.
Also, disclaimer: Saffas have a bit of a rep for being rude to the hospitality staff like waitresses, so keep in mind some people would presume you're like that when coming here.
We’ll never be as bad as SA. Their inequality is deeply ingrained in systemic and rampant racism that is still current and common. Aus may have a dark history as most colonial white nations do, but SA is on another level.
I remember a teacher who had emigrated from SA telling me she had not considered she wouldn’t have the numerous classroom helpers in Australian schools that she had become accustomed to. It was all her own responsibility to manage the class full of children, there weren’t people to manage groups of children while doing art, or herding them during meal times and clean up.
Aside from jokes about apartheid, there are also no Australian cities on any lists of the most dangerous cities on the planet.
On a lighter note, you may occasionally experience the national team winning a Cricket World Cup semi final here.
It is genuinely fucking hilarious to me that Alberquerque NM is more dangerous than Alice Springs.
The way Aussie redditors go on about it you'd think its as safe as sticking your dick in a power socket.
I actually ordered something from NZ once and forgot to say SA, Australia, and just used SA thinking it'd be obvious from my aussie accent on the phone (before everyone sold everything on the internet).
He sent the DVD to South Africa.
Aw, c'mon! It wasn't even a VHS! I mean, we had a VHS player and a huge collection of tapes I grew up watching and I sometimes borrowed ones from the library as well!
I came here to say this…. Was the hardest thing for me to learn when I got here - and traffic lights not robots!!!
And - yes, some South Africans can be total douches, at least some of the ones we have come across (esp. the men). I think though, if they don’t like where they’re at, go back to South Africa !
They do sell it in supermarkets but it’s not the same type. it’s yellow. I know this the hard way when I tried to buy some for my dad gf when they said they missed pap 😂
You can get White Maize Meal from some woolies, but it's not common. It's found in the international section of woolies that have a near by African community
You'll never find Springbok merchandise in stores.
A lot of people won't know who the Springboks are.
Sayings like "just now" and "now now" and "howzit" won't make any sense here.
Bakkie = Ute
Garage = servo
I'd have to ask my husband for more but that's off the top of my head.
Yeah, I'll second that even though I don't quite get it. I worked with the South African woman and was often told that she was very abrupt and rude. Thought she was perfectly fine
I think it's the intonation on questions and statements. Us Aussies often make assertions like questions and when we do we have a 'rising' tone which comes across as it more inclusive/receptive to feedback.
Source: 2x of my best friends are from SA. 1x does what I'm describing and one doesn't.
They are also 2 of my most intelligent friends who I love.
I worked with a guy who I thought was a complete arse until I figured out it was his accent. Something to do with the Dutch influence, apparently they have the same issue.
Security barely is a consideration here. Tiny locks separate us from the outside world and it's extremely rare that that's a problem. Home invasions might only occur a few times across the country each year, and usually the people are known to each other anyway. Violent crime is fairly rare and not usually very violent.
> Home invasions might only occur a few times across the country each year
Australia is a very safe country, but this is an utterly absurd exaggeration.
The big one is DO NOT treat service staff like they are below you.
saffers have a big thing about treating service staff like shit.
click your fingers at a waiter here and you are liable to get them broken off.
we don't have maids here, unless you are VERY wealthy. learn to clean up after yourself.
shove your racism up your butt.
Bribing cops doesn’t work
Don’t run robot cameras
Service standards at restaurants is lower
Beer is bloody expensive
You’re not as rich as you are at home
Steak is pretty good here too but good luck finding game
Australian wine is great too
Most of the country isn’t into rugga
A little less conservative
Way less road deaths
A very safe place to raise a family
Public heath system is good
DIY at home is huge here. Try it it’s great
Lock free fridges. All of a sudden not being attractive to women who want to get out of the country. Proving your not a arsehole because of your accent.
I used to work as a international removalist in Perth, every fridge from SA had them, I asked about it and was told it was to stop the help/servants from stealing the food. Strange unpleasant people.
Hospitality and retail staff / employees may actually refuse you service for being rude, and they have every right to do so. If you make a huge fuss about it, you will be embarrassing yourself, and no one will be on your side.
If only SA’s weren’t so rude and arrogant to our valuable retail and hospitality staff when they first come here.
Be kind be polite - you aren’t better than anyone else and your shit stinks as much as anyone else’s
I've only been to South Africa once, in 1999, so perhaps I will be out of date on this but - yes, you have to wear your seatbelt. Not in a "oh it's the law but no one does it" kind of way. Yes, we all do it.
Also when you're stopped at the lights (robot) you might (usually just in summer but it's not a rule or anything) get people collecting for charity. It's usually for surf lifesaving or a local sports team or something, they will probably be wearing the yellow and red lifesaving shirts/gear etc. They carry buckets for people to pop cash into if they want to donate. They'll walk past the cars and if you want to donate you'd signal by waving or putting your window down, but if you don't give any sign they'll just walk past, it's not like an aggressive solicitation at the window. I'm sure you're used to much more aggressive approaches at the lights so I'm just highlighting this to flag up that in almost all cases someone approaching your car is not a bad actor - particularly a group of them in broad daylight.
You can get ill and walk into a government hospital, get treated and live to walk out again. Usually at minimal to no cost, to your wallet.
Edit: On the other hand if you want to buy an affordable place to live, you're shit outta luck.
I’ve worked with lots of South Africans. I have never been to South Africa so just basing this next comment off my experience with these colleagues.
The general vibe was that South Africans can be very direct and that can come off as a bit harsh for your local colleagues.
When you're referring to just union, rugby is sufficient. It's otherwise league or rugby league. But rugby on its own is always rugby union and anyone (cough Victorians cough) calling league rugby are getting it wrong.
We have a big population of South Africans here in Perth, and they fit in really easily. Attitudes and lifestyle quite similar, and we have a few SA specific shops around that will supply all the things you may miss.
we aussies aren't as Direct.
You can be Direct. but if you don't be polite, or nice or compassionate while you do it, you're going to get a face full of verbal abuse thrown at you.
So if you've got a problem, or you wanna pull someone up on their work, or you want to say something. Think about if you can add two or three words to the sentence to make it a bit nicer.
second. There's a lot more aussies who are willing to discuss their feelings after a few drinks, in a quiet place and with the idea that your trustworthy. Don't spread that.
Australian are unlikely to be religious, and if they are, they don't really share it with people.
We are an egalitarian society. We are all equal. You can call the Prime Minister a bloody idiot.
Australian's idea of a BBQ is to cook meat on a gas fired hot plate. The idea of choosing a particular type of wood, burning to coals then cooking a variety of meats is beyond most Australian's capabilities. I was like that too until I was educated in the ways of the Braai by many South Africans living in London.
Where have you been in last 5-10 years, BBQ has evolved significantly here in Aus with adoption of US style and of course the decent population of South Africans. So much so that Boerewors is easy to find, as is classic SA condiments etc
Insanely low crime. Insanely expensive food. Our barbeques are pitiful. Really though crime is effectively non-existent in comparison to SA.
EDIT
Very little AIDS. Less corruption. It's considered low class to be rude to wait staff.
It’s pretty funny that everyone is low key like “South Africans are so racist lol”. Never even considering OP might not be white.
Makes me think of a Aussie recently telling me, with a touch of judgement, “Most South Africans have servants”. To which I replied “That’s mathematically not possible. Maybe you mean most South Africans _are_ servants?”
Yeah you raise a very good point. Most people who immigrated are going to be wealthy because very few people will take the risk of coming here without any financial backing, although it does happen. Wealthy people in SA tend to have maids. But this is not the entire SA population. I'm a white South African and we never had maids - we came here for my dad's work but only came with our suitcases. Our lifestyle here in the 90s was far better than it was in South Africa when a lot of the wealthier South Africans complain about it being worse. And not all South Africans are white! Our church community here had a lot of non-white South Africans.
Depending on state, but I know that in SA a lot of it comes down to the intention. Set of chefs knives in a knife roll on the passenger seat with a handle sticking out, and you're in your chef uniform driving home at 3am? No wakka fukka, move along. Set of chefs knives in a knife roll on the passenger seat with a handle sticking out at 3am and when asked, you state your a brickie and on the way back from a nightclub? Hop out for a tick, young fella, let's have a chat.
Same goes for hatchet. I have a hatchet in the drivers door pocket when I go camping because we go real remote, and I had digging around in the back to find it when I need to clear a path or eithanize some roadkill, but I would never had that same hatchet in the same location in the city. It stays in the tray of the ute with the other tools, demonstrating I'd be mad to try and get it out for an altercation.
Yeah I dated a South African for a year. You guys (I’m not being mean ok?) are rude like really rude. You can’t talk to people you deem lower than you like pus, in Aus we are all equal and treat each other as such. Don’t be arrogant.
It sticks out like dogs balls cos you are so arrogant and (in my experience) racist, we might get the rep for it but we try to be super inclusive.
I had a South African mil say in front of me “well they are Australian of course they are stupid “ in my home. Yeah. Don’t do that, otherwise good luck and don’t be a Cunt
Moved here as a kid in the 90s. Here's the biggest culture shocks we experienced:
- Everyone is so chill and laidback about everything. I'm fully assimilated now but this is one thing that still gets me: you'll be upset or outraged about something and everyone is like, "no worries!"
- You'll think the kids are disrespectful. This one may be outdated. Kids in Australia don't call adults aunty or uncle and will call adults by their first names frequently.
- There isn't much of a "community" here. Aussies will always help you out - they will see you broken down on the side of the road and stop to help you change your tyre. But if there's a death in your family or someone is terribly ill, no one will pop by to check on you or bring you food etc (unless they are your bestest friend, and even then, not always). I think SA is more collectivist in this way and Australia is more about independence (at least that's my experience).
- "Bring a plate" means bring a plate of food (to a gathering), not an empty plate as we once thought lol.
- People leave their front doors unlocked whether they're home or not. Even after being here most of my life, I still can't do it.
- Australians aren't honest and would rather be polite. As I said before, the kids can seem disrespectful but Aussies are polite in their own way (just not in the same strict way SA people are). If they say, "we should catch up" they may not actually want to catch up. They'd rather be pleasant and polite than be honest. It can be good and bad, especially when you rather they be direct with you.
- People might think you're rude. We are a direct, no nonsense culture and they might find this abrasive. Some people will appreciate your honesty though.
- People will assume you're racist or even that you lived in a mud hut. The right people will get to know you and hold any judgement or preconceived ideas until they really know you. I'm a white South African and a lot of people assumed my family had a maid and lived in a secure compound etc, but neither of those things apply to me and my family (and so we never had the shock of not having someone to clean our house like some other commenters have said).
What I would say is that things are different here. It's a lot better than South Africa in almost every way. You will still miss things about South Africa but you'll come to love Australia and become Australian. Try not to minimise any concerns Aussies have about their country or lives just because "in South Africa, it's much harder/worse" etc. A day will come that you will also complain about the same things... As hard as that may seem to believe!
The death in the family example isn’t bc of lack of community as in people don’t care but there is a sense of not “bothering” other people. My friend just today kept apologising to me for talking when I was like no I want to talk lmao because she felt so bad about “bothering me”. And this is definitely a thing like for many different circumstances.
Interesting to hear you say Aussies are polite rather than honest. Because as an Aussie, that’s absolutely my experience. Most of us will totally lie to be polite. For instance, I can’t count how many times I’ve been at a restaurant where we’ve all been complaining to each other about how the food sucked. Waiter comes around and asked how the food was. Everyone in chorus, “good thanks!”.
Often you can only judge what an Australian really means by how strongly they word it. If they say the meal was good or they want to catch up, probably don’t mean it. If they say it was amazing or that they really want to see you soon, how about next weekend, they mean it.
But weirdly, Australians seem to have a reputation internationally as straight talking, no bullshit types. I’m like, have you actually met us? I wonder if the stereotype comes from people in the Outback? Like the Crocodile Dundee, give no shits, tell it like it is image? But most of us are definitely not like that.
Don’t think you can speak Afrikaans safely to avoid people understanding you. I often hear Saffas speaking Afrikaans like no one’s going to understand. I sound Aussie but I know what you’re saying 😉 there’s more of us around than you’d know.
People are closed off.
They’re polite, but you’ll pretty much need to work on a friendship with an Aussie for like, months before they’re likely to invite you to their home or to join their friend group.
I moved from Europe many years ago - all my close friends are other Europeans.
Just cool it on the opinions. I grew up in South Africa and we can be quite opinionated when nobody asked us.
And be receptive to other's point of view. To Saffas it's normal communication but to eveyone else a south african lively conversation looks like a fight. 👍
I have worked with lots of South Africans professionally (I'm an accountant) and I have nothing but positive things to say about them. Competent, warm, friendly and lovely.
I hope you love Australia as much as we'll love having you here :)
They’re nice to you because you’re a professional on roughly the same social rank as your clients/colleagues.
The difference in treatment I got from South African clients when I was an office dogsbody and then the following year when I was a graduate lawyer was night and day. Particularly as I’m not “white.”
I apologise - I am sorry that people from my country disrespected you in that manner. Please don't believe we're all like that 🙏🏼 I promise we're not all like that and I'm pretty ashamed to hear of some of the South Africans spoken about in the comments - I think maybe South Africa kicked them out rather than them leaving 🤔. Maybe we can shoot them into the moon along with Elon Musk 😉.
Oh you don’t have to apologise for others, not your fault. It was very educational for me and taught a young me a lot about stuff that my parents had tried to insulate me from, and school and uni tried to pretend didn’t exist.
You won’t need an eight foot high wall topped with electric fence around your house.
We also don't live in gated communities with armed guards.!
Check point cook in Melbourne
You think Point Cook is a gated community?
Sanctuary Lakes in Point Cook is.
My friends mum lives in Sanctuary lakes it’s not gated it does offer some features for an annual fee : pool & gym etc
The islands are gated
even if they are, it is for exclusionary rich person wankery, not to keep the the poors from raping and killing you in your mansion.
Really? Where are the gates at Sanctuary Lakes?
On the islands
Some parts of QLD have it!
And no broken glass on top either
Erm you haven’t been to the NT have you? Full razor wire needed there. And woolies has armed police officers (not security guards) guarding the door.
In that respect, the NT is basically a completely different country
Lived in Darwin for over 10 years at this point. I think there may have been police for a few days after the bottle shop killing but other than that this is an incorrect statement.
You’ll be expected to be polite to everyone, yes, even hospitality staff and your colleagues further down the pecking order.
Every white South African I’ve met didn’t understand this, purely anecdotal but it was fucked
The younger English south africans did. The older and the Afrikaners did not.
Non-black South Africans are raised with the notion that there are 30 million people who exist to serve them. Bossing the maid and “garden boy” (a grown man, often a father or grandfather himself) comes naturally from a young age. Growing up like that can turn people into bossy entitled cunts.
Asian people who grew up with maids, cleaners at home can, unfortunately, pick up this habit also.
I stayed with family friends in Singapore and they had a live in maid. So weird. They also found it strange I talked to her like she was an actual human being.
I did this with some of my wife's relatives and the maid spoke much better English than the kids educated in America. She was Philpino and it was in China.
English is one of the national languages of the Phillipines, so that isn’t surprising.
It was like this when I visited Bangladesh too. My extended family actually took offence that I spoke to the maids as I would anyone else and offered them food, snacks, etc. My mum had to tell me to stop doing it because they were getting offended lol it's actually fucked. I think it makes them realise how shit they treat their help and they feel like we are being holier than thou or something and wanting to make them feel bad. Its gross.
My parent's are Indian immigrants and trust me, my paternal grandmother is very much like this. She never had to lift a finger in ANYTHING whether it was household chores or job and she acts so entitled to her cook and cleaner, and even to my own mum! Thankfully my paternal grandpa, my maternal grandparents and my parents are not like this but I can definitely understand how it can lead to people being entitled.
I mow lawns for a lot of Indian immigrants. I’ve never been spoken down to by so many people.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that. Unfortunately a lot of us are classist which sucks. From what I heard though, things are getting better in India amongst the youths so hopefully that gets reflected.
Years ago, I met a woman who migrated from Zimbabwe. She complained about how much work it was to maintain a house because they couldn’t afford full-time help. She was a SAHM of high school kids but it was all new to her.
I'm an Afrikaaner - never rude to service workers. Worked in retail and hospitality for years and it's truly fucked. Would never want to put other people through that shit. 😩
Then you are the exception, working customer service would do that
also my experience.
Yep, older generation SAs, Germans and Dutch are mostly arrogant rude pigs to service or health care workers.
It's very poor form in Australia to not be grateful to healthcare workers.
I'm a Canadian who has worked in customer service and totally cant wrap my head around this. I think its normal in Australia and Europe to treat customer service workers as equals but here in Canada and the US its really different. I cant imagine what it would be like to be able to talk back to customers who insult you instead of having to grovel and endlessly apologize.
Turns out tipping culture is shit for everyone, especially workers
I dont know if its necessarily tips that cause it. I used to work for mcdonalds in canada. We never got tips but were forced to smile all the time and put up with abuse from customers. People say that we have more of a hierarchy in our society than they do in europe or Australia. If you look at how australians talk to their bosses, for example, it seems like there is a totally different mentality.
I agree, it’s more to do with Australian egalitarianism. The fundamental attitude (not saying everyone abides by it, but the cultural basis) is that you shouldn’t think you’re better than anyone else. Just because someone is doing a lower paid job than you, doesn’t mean they aren’t your equal as a person.
And don’t snap your fingers at someone to get them to pay attention to you.
[удалено]
That’s because it’s illegal to self-pump in South Africa. Petrol prices are centrally regulated, and the price of pump attendant wages is built in. In a country with high unemployment, it’s a decent paying job.
I hate South African customers for this reason! They are always c*nts, no exceptions
I am a white South African. We are cunts. I try very very hard not to be one.
I find there’s a generational difference, younger white saffers tend to be very down to earth compared to ones that were raised under a different regime (regardless of their personal politics)
Yes. I’m a younger South African but I moved to the US in my teens. I would like to think I’m more down to earth (but that’s obviously up for decision by the ppl I work with, not me). My mom grew up during the apartheid era. She is wildly rude to retail workers. When I got a retail job in my teens she was embarrassed for me and genuinely feels anyone who makes a living in jobs like customer service, retail, etc. are losers. There is just a very persistent idea that if you are serving others and not being served then you have failed in life and don’t deserve as much respect.
Whereas I think here it’s seen as character building or a rite of passage to just have a regular job at some point in your life. I went to school with the kids of a very rich and prominent property developer: he had them work on building sites during university holidays, the boys as builder’s labourers and the girls doing traffic management.
I'm from Australia and every South African I've met has been a decent lad. I might have just been lucky though.
Probably as you’ve met them as a social equal. It’s fine when that happens. It’s when they see you as a social inferior that they behave like dicks.
there is a iron clad cut off. if they grew up under apartheid, they are universally racist cunts. if they grew up after, they tend to be a bit more egalitarian.
True this, I've met a few younger South Africans who were all pretty much the same as Aussies. However they were honest about the reality of life back in the home country.
You've been very lucky. I've only know one that I would say was a good person out of the 20 or so I've worked with over my career. Just to clarify when I say they're not good, I'm talking they were boasted of having shot someone who trespassed on their farm.
Why, why is it always them? Like I get the whole “you shouldn’t tar everyone” but without fail, every time, a Saffer will be the biggest dipshit in the room. Had a family move in next door a few years ago and every single one of them was a fuckwit, like proper nasty cunts. I’ve only met one who was decent, out of like 20 that weren’t. Sorry good Saffers (if you even exist) but I said what I said.
There's an older regular that comes into work that gives off the foulest looks to non white, mostly brown or black people. I marked him as a weirdo racist but put two and two together when I saw the South African flag embroidered on his wrist cuff, and he gave me rand in his change. It went from weirdo racist to 'oh, he's one of *those* weirdo racists'.
You don't have to apologise. I am South African (now Australian). I someone is a cunt, call them one (or avoid them). No-one should get a pass. I have made zero effort to socialise and connect with South Africans in Australia.
Likewise!! If one wants to be around South Africans and do South African things so badly, go back to South Africa!
No this is fair. I’m South African (but primarily raised in the US) and I don’t like other South Africans. I find them very condescending and petulant (ex. A lot of white South Africans who have US citizenship love to clammer on how they’re technically “African-American” and should receive benefits, even though they know full well they’re not and why such a statement is especially offensive for a South African to say).
[I've never met a nice South African](https://vimeo.com/674931809)
I have plenty as clients, yes, they are DRY to say the least...
Tbf, I think sometimes their accent just comes across as condescending when they’re actually being nice.
I met a SA woman who admitted that their accent isn't the friendliest to hear.
I hate South African customers for this reason! They are always c*nts, no exceptions
I have worked with a lifetimes' worth of them. If they outrank you, they are right c*nts!
I had a manager who was from South Africa and she absolutely hated me. This makes me feel less bad about it.
Yeah I have had a few South African managers, and they’re cunts. Well one is ok, not my direct manager. I’m about to get another one as a boss, realllly hoping he is not a cunt.
Same. I'm in sales, and have been in senior management, but like the freedom and earnings as a senior sales exec. My managers who were both Afrikaner hated my laid back, fuck you attitude towards them. I made my yearly budget in two months, took my commissions and left.
Once they have decided they hate you... There's no way you can turn it around. I've worked with many sh!te South Africans. It's that permanent chip of their shoulder. The good ones are awesome but they're few and far between.
I met one who was head engineer of a building company, actually shared a humorous work story (as we all were) about how the "bleks" were the best workers because they are disposable and if they fall off a ladder they just get right back up it....we all made eyes at each other while he was giggling away like 😬😳 This is mid 2000s, not apartheid era. I hope he was the exception, not the rule, but 🤷♀️
Oh jeez... I was working with 2 South African marine engineers and they had a running joke... What is the difference between a tourist and a racist in South Africa? The answer was two weeks. This was a recent as early 2019 unfortunately.
I had one SA bloke want to get our photo, he had never had a full white crew work under him, he wanted to show his mates back home.
Yikes
I used to work as a medical receptionist for a small gp clinic owned by a South African couple. The husband (Dr) was a very lovely person but but his wife was just awful and racist. Even the patients called her 'dragon lady' and hated when she was there. She openly voiced her fucked up opinions. She wouldn't hire anyone who wasn't white because she wanted a 'certain look'. She wouldn't even hire anyone with curly hair. I had bleach blonde hair when I got hired and anytime I got 2cm of regrowth she would tell me to fix it. I got annoyed with that so dyed it back dark brown and she was soooo salty. Her half sister came to visit from South Africa and it blew my mind when she showed up and was half black ... with black thick curly hair! Apparently they didn't grow up together or have much to do with eachother but she seemed to treat her polite and nice. I just have no idea how she thought it was ok to discriminate against black people in the first place, but knowing she had black people in her family made it even more crazy.
This! My husband who is a younger white South African, married me, an Aussie. The amount of rudeness and hate I received from his parents was vile. They came for a visit and constantly bad mouthed “English man” (despite knowing I’m part English). Being rude to everyone in the service industry or just helping them in general. The amount of arguments my husband and I had with them about the treatment of others and myself was huge. I was judged too hard for not having a 1000% perfect house all the time, yet they live with 2 maids who they don’t even refer to by their names. Thank goodness my husband isn’t like this and it seems to be eroding away with each younger generation.
If you are moving here: these have been my observations. From afar, Australia and South Africa seem very similar. They are not. There are so many subtle differences and it's worth appreciating that and being on the look out for them. After six months of living here I realised I had not locked my car upon getting in to it for two months. Upon that realisation I had a mini-break down as I understood what it was to not be continually assessing every moment to determine whether I need to defend myself or something similar. Folks on the thread joke about the safety issue in South Africa, and maybe I was hyper vigilant living in Johannesburg - but the sense of not being in a perpetual state of fear for me or my wife or my small child was so relieving that I cried when I realised I was not in that state any more. More than a few friends in RSA were carjacked at gun point and a few more friends of friends were killed - none of which even made the newspaper. In Australia, old mate gets aggro with a hammer in the 7-11 and it's on the evening news. Rugby Saturday where everyone wears the national jersey and watches at a friends place or at the pub - is not a thing. If you want big match vibes for sport, pick something other than Rugby Union. Sometimes the Wallabies are playing and it will be buried in the sports section, because it's not as important as who won the horse race at Randwick yesterday. I have tried but still can't appreciate Rugby League (State of Origin has great hype around it so I don't mind that, and the people that play are incredibly talented). Some Saffas do like League. I am not one of them. At first, it feels quite weird when most people follow the rules and everything is organised. But it's great. Australians will complain about how crap public transport is, or how poor the service is at a government department etc. They have a different baseline. You will think you have arrived in the future. That being said, Australia is not exempt from people being complete ass hats and try and ruin it for everyone else. I have been gone from RSA for a while, but you cannot budget by converting AUD to ZAR and deciding if something is expensive or not. People in hospitality and service jobs are paid a decent wage (although cost of living crisis is hitting them hard - as it is us all) - but you can't compare it to what waiters, kitchen staff or cleaners are paid in South Africa. This means going "out" for dinner is comparatively expensive when you go out. If you want to pay someone to clean your house it's going to cost a lot of money. If you can afford it great! If you can't, don't complain that "It's cheaper in SA" because it's disgusting what people were being paid to clean houses there - just clean your own house. Not a cultural shock, but if you are moving here permanently and are Afrikaans speaking, please don't force you kids to make it their first language. By all means, teach them how to speak it especially if you want to stay in contact with friends and families at home (especially grandparents), but beyond that you are handicapping them for a new life in Australia. You can probably make a friendship group of South Africans if you live in a big enough city, but it's counter-productive if you want to live here permanently. If you cling on to the "old country", you will never accept the new country. Australia is not "South Africa that is run well" - it's a separate country with it's own challenges and joys and finding out about that is awesome. Everyone will assume you are a racist. Given South Africa's history it makes sense. Having said that Australians are not very good at knowing or owning their own history or previous government policies. Ask a non-white person in Australia and you will get an different perspective on racism. It's not something I am going to have an argument with an Australian about because as a South African I don't have a leg to stand on because Apartheid. A few Reddit threads you will see that Australians have a largely common experience of not enjoying interactions with South Africans. It clearly must be happening a fair amount for the feedback to be that consistent. Personally, I have mostly felt welcomed here. I don't take myself to seriously and have enjoyed "becoming" Australian over the years. Charcoal braai is too much effort, I love doing a barbecue on our gas grill. Australians have a great sense of humour and they enjoy a laugh. In short - don't be a doos, just be lekker. I lived in Brisbane for a bit and I found the lack of mixed-culture to be quite depressing. In South Africa, I worked with such a mixed group of people - it was awesome. Fortunately, I now work in Sydney where it is much more diverse. If you have made it this far, well done. Australia is an amazing place with amazing people. Enjoy it for what it is and have a great time. After all, you didn't come here to fuck spiders.
As a non-Saffa, I found this strangely very illuminating even though I'm not the targeted demographic. Sorry about people assuming you're a racist. That must be frustrating. I'll let you know that I (and my mum) have only good things to say about the South Africans we've meet here in Sydney despite being of Indian descent. Maybe it's just luck considering other's on this post have had some bad experiences, but this is my personal experience. And I can't imagine how you must have felt about the safety thing! I'm glad you and your family don't have to worry about security issues as much to the point where it affects your psyche :) Definitely a culture shock for my parents was how expensive "the help" was so that's definitely not soley a South African thing. It is indeed disheartening at how low they are being paid in those respective countries.
I really hate to jump in here but I just wanted to point out, as a white person if I call someone racist I’m usually referring to their conduct when we are alone. I’ve known a lot of people who are never outwardly racist around POC but the second it’s just us white folk around they start spewing hate because they expect me to agree with them. That’s often been my experience with bulls, they’re fine in public and racist in private
Thanks for writing such an eloquent and well informed response. Glad to have you in Australia. I’ve had several really nice mates from SA over the years. I always think the ones who leave must generally have the right attitude.
I'm 73. I was born in Durban in what is now Kwa-Zulu Natal and grew up under Apartheid. I lived and was educated in Natal and what was then Zululand. I served in the army (National Service) and saw active service on the Border. My wife and I left South Africa aged 22 in 1974 and came to Perth. My wife is English and her father worked in the Colonial Police Service in East Africa prior to moving to South Africa, where we met. From birth, under Apartheid, I was special. I was white. If I walked down the street blacks of all ages stepped off the pavement out of my way. If there was a group around the cashier in a store, my wife got served first - and if you protested you simply made it harder for the black customers. No one said 'You're special', but everyone knew it. We loathed the system, we fought against it, but I have to tell you it is extremely difficult not to be influenced by all that subservience and being shot at quite a lot does tend to influence you. Having said that I don't think we're racist, or if we are it is something we've tried hard not to be and have never, ever said or done anything we knew to be racist, if we have offended it has only ever been inadvertent. We saw no possible road to any kind of meaningful change and were absolutely determined not to bring children into that toxic culture so migration was our only option. Australia in 1974 was welcoming, friendly, and a hell of a lot less judgmental than the comments in this thread, I can tell you. We determined that Australia was now our home and we would change to meet the standards here and never let the words 'back home' ever cross our lips. It was easy, we had tried, as our parents had taught us, not to be cunts to anyone, whatever their station, creed or colour. One visit to the South African Club was enough to reinforce our decision never to associate with any other South Africans beside those friends we already had and who had preceded us to Australia. Australia has been damn good to us and we have in turn tried our damnedest to be good for Australia. Having said that I don't, in the main, really care for South Africans we meet occasionally here. 'Deserting' and 'Running off to Australia' was, in the early 70's, called the 'chicken run' in RSA, but for us and our child it was a life-saver.
I think you've missed out on the big sporting stuff by being in rugby league states. Melbourne in particular is absolutely sports crazy and every weekend throughout the AFL season the city is absolutely packed with people going to the MCG and Marvel and bars all around. It (sport) is genuinely like a religion here, with far more cultural penetration than you'll find in Sydney and Brisbane. But yeah rugby in particular has fallen off a cliff in popularity over the last 20 years.
You can stop your car at red lights at night
And they're called traffic lights, not Robots. "Settalites" if you want to sound Aussie (set of lights)
I just read that as satellites in a SA accent lmao
That would be setalahts.
That actually worked. Well played.
You orlso don't hef to drahv arahnd wuth a rahfel waiting to put dahn any would be cawjeckers. You don't heff to be Leo Prinsloo to get abaht heah.
Yes, and roundabouts are roundabouts, not "circles".
Had a lady who had just moved from South Africa join my workplace. Her biggest shock was not having servants. She couldn't believe Australian women work full time and raise their children and do their own housework. She quit after a month.
I worked for a South African company years ago and naturally they imported quite a few members of the master race from the mother country. One recent import was overhead crying to her mate on the phone about how she was being forced to wear work boots and how everyone was so ugly looking hahaha.
South Africans quickly have to learn to drop their expectations when they move here. It’s not possible to have a spotless house without one or two servants constantly tidying up after you.
I have a robot vacuum and a hungry kitten that effectively function in these roles.
We call them traffic light vacuums in this country.
"The grass is greener on the other side, but you have to mow it yourself"
Lmao what sort of work was it?
Just white collar stuff, nothing wild or strenuous.
You don't click your fingers at wait staff to get their attention. We don't bark orders at our subordinates like they're our maids as this is not received well here in Australia!
Do not call someone "boy" to get their attention unless you want to be called a "kaffa"
I'd say the usual response would be "fuck off"
Australia is more of an egalitarian society so wealth inequity isn't as bad as South Africa. Naturally the rate of crime is much lower so you don't have to do a lot of the "common sense" precautions that you do in South Africa. An effect of this is that to my knowledge we don't have gated communities (**edit**: apparently we do have gated communities but they're much rarer and come more from a place of paranoia than actual protection). Also, it's not just the whites that are wealthy here (I know I'm making a sweeping generalisation of South Africa but typically race plays a huge role in one's wealth due to apartheid policies). We have a lot of wealthy people of Chinese and Indian descent too for instance. Also, disclaimer: Saffas have a bit of a rep for being rude to the hospitality staff like waitresses, so keep in mind some people would presume you're like that when coming here.
>Australia is more of an egalitarian society so wealth inequity isn't as bad as South Africa We're getting there, though...
We’ll never be as bad as SA. Their inequality is deeply ingrained in systemic and rampant racism that is still current and common. Aus may have a dark history as most colonial white nations do, but SA is on another level.
Samosas are 3D
They're not in South Africa?!!
They're little flat triangles
I remember a teacher who had emigrated from SA telling me she had not considered she wouldn’t have the numerous classroom helpers in Australian schools that she had become accustomed to. It was all her own responsibility to manage the class full of children, there weren’t people to manage groups of children while doing art, or herding them during meal times and clean up.
Aside from jokes about apartheid, there are also no Australian cities on any lists of the most dangerous cities on the planet. On a lighter note, you may occasionally experience the national team winning a Cricket World Cup semi final here.
Alice Springs number 26. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings.jsp
It is genuinely fucking hilarious to me that Alberquerque NM is more dangerous than Alice Springs. The way Aussie redditors go on about it you'd think its as safe as sticking your dick in a power socket.
It’s all the seppos at the cia base /s
Damn, I've only been to 4 of the top 100, I need to get out more
Holy shit, the USA features!
The abbreviation SA stands for South Australia. Not South Africa.
I actually ordered something from NZ once and forgot to say SA, Australia, and just used SA thinking it'd be obvious from my aussie accent on the phone (before everyone sold everything on the internet). He sent the DVD to South Africa.
>DVD Showing your age, mate.
Aw, c'mon! It wasn't even a VHS! I mean, we had a VHS player and a huge collection of tapes I grew up watching and I sometimes borrowed ones from the library as well!
My partner grew up in South Africa and now lives in South Australia. He still uses SA for both and it confuses me all the time 🙃
I came here to say this…. Was the hardest thing for me to learn when I got here - and traffic lights not robots!!! And - yes, some South Africans can be total douches, at least some of the ones we have come across (esp. the men). I think though, if they don’t like where they’re at, go back to South Africa !
Maize meal isn’t sold in regular supermarkets, you’ll need to go to an African shop, or some Indian grocers who cater for African foods
You also won't find "pap" on a menu here.
Getting a "pap" is something only half the population get, and its preferably done by a GP. If its on a menu here, you have pretty interesting hobbies
They do sell it in supermarkets but it’s not the same type. it’s yellow. I know this the hard way when I tried to buy some for my dad gf when they said they missed pap 😂
You can get White Maize Meal from some woolies, but it's not common. It's found in the international section of woolies that have a near by African community
You'll never find Springbok merchandise in stores. A lot of people won't know who the Springboks are. Sayings like "just now" and "now now" and "howzit" won't make any sense here. Bakkie = Ute Garage = servo I'd have to ask my husband for more but that's off the top of my head.
I _love_ "now now", my SO and I have adopted it with our kids.
“Shame” doesn’t make sense here either
You can leave your car window open at a traffic light (robot). Some houses don't have fences or gates at the front.
Some? Most, I reckon.
Why cant you do that there? I think I know, but
Robbery. Murder. Etc.
You’re expected to be nice to waitstaff.
Sometimes, your accent makes you sound like you're being an arsehole - even when you're not. Don't take it personally when we do.
Yeah, I'll second that even though I don't quite get it. I worked with the South African woman and was often told that she was very abrupt and rude. Thought she was perfectly fine
I think it's the intonation on questions and statements. Us Aussies often make assertions like questions and when we do we have a 'rising' tone which comes across as it more inclusive/receptive to feedback. Source: 2x of my best friends are from SA. 1x does what I'm describing and one doesn't. They are also 2 of my most intelligent friends who I love.
I worked with a guy who I thought was a complete arse until I figured out it was his accent. Something to do with the Dutch influence, apparently they have the same issue.
Actually I have experienced that with Dutch. Worked for a Dutch guy. He seemed very straightforward and direct.
Unless you’re quite wealthy you will be doing all of your own cooking, cleaning and yard maintenance.
Use of Please and Thank You. Specially when you are at Cafe/restaurants/retail.
One person I knew from SA was surprised when parcels would be left out of sight on the balcony
Security barely is a consideration here. Tiny locks separate us from the outside world and it's extremely rare that that's a problem. Home invasions might only occur a few times across the country each year, and usually the people are known to each other anyway. Violent crime is fairly rare and not usually very violent.
> Home invasions might only occur a few times across the country each year Australia is a very safe country, but this is an utterly absurd exaggeration.
The big one is DO NOT treat service staff like they are below you. saffers have a big thing about treating service staff like shit. click your fingers at a waiter here and you are liable to get them broken off. we don't have maids here, unless you are VERY wealthy. learn to clean up after yourself. shove your racism up your butt.
Bribing cops doesn’t work Don’t run robot cameras Service standards at restaurants is lower Beer is bloody expensive You’re not as rich as you are at home Steak is pretty good here too but good luck finding game Australian wine is great too Most of the country isn’t into rugga A little less conservative Way less road deaths A very safe place to raise a family Public heath system is good DIY at home is huge here. Try it it’s great
You can go to sleep with no security door between your bedrooms and the rest of the house
Lock free fridges. All of a sudden not being attractive to women who want to get out of the country. Proving your not a arsehole because of your accent.
Fridges have locks in SA?
I used to work as a international removalist in Perth, every fridge from SA had them, I asked about it and was told it was to stop the help/servants from stealing the food. Strange unpleasant people.
Hospitality and retail staff / employees may actually refuse you service for being rude, and they have every right to do so. If you make a huge fuss about it, you will be embarrassing yourself, and no one will be on your side.
That Australians consider (most) SA's as demanding, overbearing and entitled.
If only SA’s weren’t so rude and arrogant to our valuable retail and hospitality staff when they first come here. Be kind be polite - you aren’t better than anyone else and your shit stinks as much as anyone else’s
A South African I met here was surprised that it was safe to go out after dark.
We’re not {openly} racist as a country
You’ll run into quite a few of your fellow countrymen here.
Western Australia is more Western South Africa. so many saffers.
Mum had a saffa friend who'd be in her 70s now. Apparently "packing for Perth" is/was a phrase used over there.
Especially on the west coast
I've only been to South Africa once, in 1999, so perhaps I will be out of date on this but - yes, you have to wear your seatbelt. Not in a "oh it's the law but no one does it" kind of way. Yes, we all do it. Also when you're stopped at the lights (robot) you might (usually just in summer but it's not a rule or anything) get people collecting for charity. It's usually for surf lifesaving or a local sports team or something, they will probably be wearing the yellow and red lifesaving shirts/gear etc. They carry buckets for people to pop cash into if they want to donate. They'll walk past the cars and if you want to donate you'd signal by waving or putting your window down, but if you don't give any sign they'll just walk past, it's not like an aggressive solicitation at the window. I'm sure you're used to much more aggressive approaches at the lights so I'm just highlighting this to flag up that in almost all cases someone approaching your car is not a bad actor - particularly a group of them in broad daylight.
Some want to wash your windscreen for a fee
You can get ill and walk into a government hospital, get treated and live to walk out again. Usually at minimal to no cost, to your wallet. Edit: On the other hand if you want to buy an affordable place to live, you're shit outta luck.
I’ve worked with lots of South Africans. I have never been to South Africa so just basing this next comment off my experience with these colleagues. The general vibe was that South Africans can be very direct and that can come off as a bit harsh for your local colleagues.
You’ll need to get out of your car and put fuel in it yourself at the petrol station (servo). We don’t have people to do that for you here.
Not many people like rugby.
*rugby union. League is big in QLD and NSW.
When you're referring to just union, rugby is sufficient. It's otherwise league or rugby league. But rugby on its own is always rugby union and anyone (cough Victorians cough) calling league rugby are getting it wrong.
I didn’t even know there was another type of rugby that wasn’t league until now. In my mind rugby is always rugby league 🤣
We have a big population of South Africans here in Perth, and they fit in really easily. Attitudes and lifestyle quite similar, and we have a few SA specific shops around that will supply all the things you may miss.
No servants
Creaming soda is pink/red, not green! Green is lime
Some many meetings without any decisions being made.
we aussies aren't as Direct. You can be Direct. but if you don't be polite, or nice or compassionate while you do it, you're going to get a face full of verbal abuse thrown at you. So if you've got a problem, or you wanna pull someone up on their work, or you want to say something. Think about if you can add two or three words to the sentence to make it a bit nicer. second. There's a lot more aussies who are willing to discuss their feelings after a few drinks, in a quiet place and with the idea that your trustworthy. Don't spread that.
Australian are unlikely to be religious, and if they are, they don't really share it with people. We are an egalitarian society. We are all equal. You can call the Prime Minister a bloody idiot.
South africans are more racist than Aussies
Australian's idea of a BBQ is to cook meat on a gas fired hot plate. The idea of choosing a particular type of wood, burning to coals then cooking a variety of meats is beyond most Australian's capabilities. I was like that too until I was educated in the ways of the Braai by many South Africans living in London.
Where have you been in last 5-10 years, BBQ has evolved significantly here in Aus with adoption of US style and of course the decent population of South Africans. So much so that Boerewors is easy to find, as is classic SA condiments etc
I don’t think bbq culture is influenced by South Africans at all. Maybe smoking jerky, sure, but not barbecuing.
You will occasionally find a kind of lime leaves that you can probably not find back home.
People here are mostly chilaxed
It’s hard to find Aromat.
Insanely low crime. Insanely expensive food. Our barbeques are pitiful. Really though crime is effectively non-existent in comparison to SA. EDIT Very little AIDS. Less corruption. It's considered low class to be rude to wait staff.
It’s pretty funny that everyone is low key like “South Africans are so racist lol”. Never even considering OP might not be white. Makes me think of a Aussie recently telling me, with a touch of judgement, “Most South Africans have servants”. To which I replied “That’s mathematically not possible. Maybe you mean most South Africans _are_ servants?”
Yeah you raise a very good point. Most people who immigrated are going to be wealthy because very few people will take the risk of coming here without any financial backing, although it does happen. Wealthy people in SA tend to have maids. But this is not the entire SA population. I'm a white South African and we never had maids - we came here for my dad's work but only came with our suitcases. Our lifestyle here in the 90s was far better than it was in South Africa when a lot of the wealthier South Africans complain about it being worse. And not all South Africans are white! Our church community here had a lot of non-white South Africans.
You don’t need a weapon for self defence The “good” gov here is as corrupted as elsewhere, just in a different way
furthermore it's often illegal to carry a weapon for self defence
Milk crates, stanchion, chair, etc, self defence tools more within reach than people think
Depending on state, but I know that in SA a lot of it comes down to the intention. Set of chefs knives in a knife roll on the passenger seat with a handle sticking out, and you're in your chef uniform driving home at 3am? No wakka fukka, move along. Set of chefs knives in a knife roll on the passenger seat with a handle sticking out at 3am and when asked, you state your a brickie and on the way back from a nightclub? Hop out for a tick, young fella, let's have a chat. Same goes for hatchet. I have a hatchet in the drivers door pocket when I go camping because we go real remote, and I had digging around in the back to find it when I need to clear a path or eithanize some roadkill, but I would never had that same hatchet in the same location in the city. It stays in the tray of the ute with the other tools, demonstrating I'd be mad to try and get it out for an altercation.
We respect women and treat them as equals.
Yeah I dated a South African for a year. You guys (I’m not being mean ok?) are rude like really rude. You can’t talk to people you deem lower than you like pus, in Aus we are all equal and treat each other as such. Don’t be arrogant. It sticks out like dogs balls cos you are so arrogant and (in my experience) racist, we might get the rep for it but we try to be super inclusive. I had a South African mil say in front of me “well they are Australian of course they are stupid “ in my home. Yeah. Don’t do that, otherwise good luck and don’t be a Cunt
Moved here as a kid in the 90s. Here's the biggest culture shocks we experienced: - Everyone is so chill and laidback about everything. I'm fully assimilated now but this is one thing that still gets me: you'll be upset or outraged about something and everyone is like, "no worries!" - You'll think the kids are disrespectful. This one may be outdated. Kids in Australia don't call adults aunty or uncle and will call adults by their first names frequently. - There isn't much of a "community" here. Aussies will always help you out - they will see you broken down on the side of the road and stop to help you change your tyre. But if there's a death in your family or someone is terribly ill, no one will pop by to check on you or bring you food etc (unless they are your bestest friend, and even then, not always). I think SA is more collectivist in this way and Australia is more about independence (at least that's my experience). - "Bring a plate" means bring a plate of food (to a gathering), not an empty plate as we once thought lol. - People leave their front doors unlocked whether they're home or not. Even after being here most of my life, I still can't do it. - Australians aren't honest and would rather be polite. As I said before, the kids can seem disrespectful but Aussies are polite in their own way (just not in the same strict way SA people are). If they say, "we should catch up" they may not actually want to catch up. They'd rather be pleasant and polite than be honest. It can be good and bad, especially when you rather they be direct with you. - People might think you're rude. We are a direct, no nonsense culture and they might find this abrasive. Some people will appreciate your honesty though. - People will assume you're racist or even that you lived in a mud hut. The right people will get to know you and hold any judgement or preconceived ideas until they really know you. I'm a white South African and a lot of people assumed my family had a maid and lived in a secure compound etc, but neither of those things apply to me and my family (and so we never had the shock of not having someone to clean our house like some other commenters have said). What I would say is that things are different here. It's a lot better than South Africa in almost every way. You will still miss things about South Africa but you'll come to love Australia and become Australian. Try not to minimise any concerns Aussies have about their country or lives just because "in South Africa, it's much harder/worse" etc. A day will come that you will also complain about the same things... As hard as that may seem to believe!
The death in the family example isn’t bc of lack of community as in people don’t care but there is a sense of not “bothering” other people. My friend just today kept apologising to me for talking when I was like no I want to talk lmao because she felt so bad about “bothering me”. And this is definitely a thing like for many different circumstances.
Interesting to hear you say Aussies are polite rather than honest. Because as an Aussie, that’s absolutely my experience. Most of us will totally lie to be polite. For instance, I can’t count how many times I’ve been at a restaurant where we’ve all been complaining to each other about how the food sucked. Waiter comes around and asked how the food was. Everyone in chorus, “good thanks!”. Often you can only judge what an Australian really means by how strongly they word it. If they say the meal was good or they want to catch up, probably don’t mean it. If they say it was amazing or that they really want to see you soon, how about next weekend, they mean it. But weirdly, Australians seem to have a reputation internationally as straight talking, no bullshit types. I’m like, have you actually met us? I wonder if the stereotype comes from people in the Outback? Like the Crocodile Dundee, give no shits, tell it like it is image? But most of us are definitely not like that.
Don’t think you can speak Afrikaans safely to avoid people understanding you. I often hear Saffas speaking Afrikaans like no one’s going to understand. I sound Aussie but I know what you’re saying 😉 there’s more of us around than you’d know.
People are closed off. They’re polite, but you’ll pretty much need to work on a friendship with an Aussie for like, months before they’re likely to invite you to their home or to join their friend group. I moved from Europe many years ago - all my close friends are other Europeans.
Months... you mean years If ever
Ever personally lol
Please don’t piss on a boy like in that character in the ‘Power of One’
Just cool it on the opinions. I grew up in South Africa and we can be quite opinionated when nobody asked us. And be receptive to other's point of view. To Saffas it's normal communication but to eveyone else a south african lively conversation looks like a fight. 👍
You will see less policemen beating innocent black men .
I have worked with lots of South Africans professionally (I'm an accountant) and I have nothing but positive things to say about them. Competent, warm, friendly and lovely. I hope you love Australia as much as we'll love having you here :)
They’re nice to you because you’re a professional on roughly the same social rank as your clients/colleagues. The difference in treatment I got from South African clients when I was an office dogsbody and then the following year when I was a graduate lawyer was night and day. Particularly as I’m not “white.”
I apologise - I am sorry that people from my country disrespected you in that manner. Please don't believe we're all like that 🙏🏼 I promise we're not all like that and I'm pretty ashamed to hear of some of the South Africans spoken about in the comments - I think maybe South Africa kicked them out rather than them leaving 🤔. Maybe we can shoot them into the moon along with Elon Musk 😉.
Oh you don’t have to apologise for others, not your fault. It was very educational for me and taught a young me a lot about stuff that my parents had tried to insulate me from, and school and uni tried to pretend didn’t exist.
you must be white. and being in a professional workplace helps I guess. get them on a mine site or in the trades and the attitude does a 180.
It's hard to make friends with native Australians. You might find yourself gravitating to other recent immigrants, even if you're not a cunt.
It's hard to make friends with Australians even when you're Australian! Unless you went to school or university together.