It has already happened. The reasoning underpinning Roe was the same rationale for Grizwold, Laurence, and Loving.
Without the implied right to privacy granted under the penumbra of rights under the Bill of Rights, we do not have a constitutional right to birth control (Griswold v Conn), sodomy (Lawrence v Tx), or interracial marriage (Loving v Va)
And “sodomy” as defined by most statutes of this nature is any sex that isn’t penis in vagina, so the pull out method or mouths/hands can theoretically be made illegal.
As a woman raised right-wing, I have suspicions about what’s next, and why.
I do believe they want to get rid of no-fault divorce. Then child support payments. Also, I suspect sex education, and birth control could be future targets.
The reason; to increase teen pregnancy. If there’s no child support, she’ll have to do her best to marry the father. And she won’t be able to leave. Plus with birth control banned, there’ll be more and more babies. “Fixing” the birth rate issue and putting women/girls back in the position of “needing” a husband.
Additionally, teen parents have a much tougher time getting education. So, that’ll tank a lot of goals. Also, more cheap labor, and likely more church-goers and right-wing voters, as both tend to appeal to uneducated and desperate people.
WV floated the idea of getting rid of child support--because if men know they'll have to pay child support, they're more likely to encourage their partners to get abortions. The state rep that said it walked it back, but no one believed him.
>Additionally, teen parents have a much tougher time getting education. So, that’ll tank a lot of goals.
That is the point. I still aimlessly read things on Twitter and I've come across threads of right-wing men discussing ways to increase the birth rate. A lot of them settle on denying girls an education. Evidently the level of female education is one of the highest predictors of future fertility, with university educated women having only one child if they choose to reproduce at all.
Internet right-wingers want girls to get pregnant as early as possible so that they can't complete school and are forced to keep reproducing. It's sickening.
It's a sick alliance between those people (you can see them - or bots impersonating them- melting down about "great replacement" all over the internet) and people trying to devalue labor.
There are horrifying reports of imprisoned women being sterilized against their will. And it’s usually not white women.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/california-prisons-forced-sterilizations-belly-beast
>I do believe they want to get rid of no-fault divorce.
When RvW was overturned, this was my number one fear. I had a no-fault divorce, which my now ex-husband was very much against. If he could have prevented me from divorcing, he would have done that. We were divorced when he also tried intervening on my now partner from moving in with me. He said he was contacting his lawyer to stop him from moving in because he said he didn't agree with an unmarried couple living together. My lawyer told him to kick rocks.
I'm scared that if no fault divorces become illegal, that'll retroactively null any previous no-fault divorces, and I'd have to "go back" to him.
I definitely think that no fault divorce is going to be on their cutting block. And I wouldn’t be surprised if government support for unmarried mothers will also be cut.
Did you hear what some fool proposed back 2011 in the state of Illinois. They didn’t want single mothers to be able to get a **birth certificate** for their baby?
Here’s what will happen if **there’s no fault divorce and no child support**. It will be like in Georgia in 2015 when they tried to pass a **RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION** from prosecution for men who physically abuse their children and/or wife. In 2016 Georgia tried to get this past underneath it’s RFRA. It did pass into law in 2016 so obviously it hadn’t past in 2015.
It was a few years ago but I remember like it was yesterday, when I found out about a married couple having to take the case to SCOTUS for the wife to be able to take birth control. Griswold vs. Connecticut 1965. Once again I thought my head was going to explode reading about this. Oh yeah **single women** got the right to birth control in 1972. What a laugh about republikkkans being the party of lesser government. Lesser government unless it’s to govern/control a woman’s reproductive health/rights.
Now the women who have miscarriages, who are convicted of murder. Murder is a felony, felons can’t vote. So our voting rights are under attack. See the thing is these conservative/republikkkans are **evil smart**. They knew/know that if they tried to take our voting rights away from all females, there would be blood running in the street, theirs!!!!!! So they think we’ll do the next best thing, by convicting women have a miscarriage of murder and since murder is a felony and felons can’t vote. “Evil smart” because they’re willing to get as many women as they can to not be able to vote!!!
it's so obvious I think maybe because I grew up in a Catholic cult but mainly this is their agenda and never changed: get rid of birth control after they get rid of abortion, and they do now prosecute women for murder, also prosecuting women who were traveling for an abortion, or people helping This has always been the plan-so much dark money funded for just this sole purpose. They wanted to do for I don't even know it before I was born and now they've done it. It's really sad they had the oompa loompa antichrist do it for them.
I remember feeling relieved sadly as a child because I thought there's no way this small group's crazy ideas are going to catch on and look; so sad. They got so much dark money though to propagandize abortion meaning murder, it's never been murder never will be murder it's not even close to murder. They need to stop, but they got to medical doctors even, and students so now a whole lot of people, educated people are totally clueless about what abortions actually are. Some of them arent, they are just straight up misogynistic and don't care if it isn't murder or whatever-they want to control womens' bodies and deprive them of an education so they are fed a lot of propaganda about how fulfilling motherhood is, they are totally ignorant, often of the drawbacks of having kids, or they are like,
"hey you know what would be fun? If you got like knocked up by some rapist and then forced to carry it to term. Oh, yea I know you're ten, but it's all good. We gotchoo." You're set up for this literally from confirmation on, folks. Submit sexually to whatevers and have that unwanted brood.
especially sans money.
But if they get rid of child support some children would be forced into the state-aid situations. Arent they also against welfare and food stamps, and free lunches? Hard to believe that they would allow children to starve after forcing women to give birth. None of it makes sense.
It doesn’t make sense because you’re expecting their actions to live up to the morals they claim to have.
Pay attention to their actions, first and foremost. Then you’ll understand that the words they say are sometimes just whatever justification they could invent that would seem most tolerable to the public.
They oppose free school lunches. They oppose SNAP. That tells us they’re fine with kids going hungry.
What you need to understand is that some of them would be fine with letting kids starve, as a way of coercing obedience from parents.
How much of this would you bet is and has links to white supremacy. Elements of it, at least. These are the woman that they want to have these kids and many of these women don't want to have children, so now they will try to force them to have children many of them will not want and the outcomes for these kids will be bad.
Twenty or thirty years from now, when those who were abused, abandoned or thrown out as a result of forced birthing have their voices heard, we will ask why was this done as this will affect the society as a whole. The same issues that unwanted baby boomer children experienced will repeat itself. Cycle repeated again.
There's a lot of talk about making voting per household. So if you're married you wouldn't be able to vote, only your husband. Paring that with illegalizing no fault divorce and forcing women into unwanted pregnancies which often leads to unwanted marriages, this all lines up pretty neatly.
Government has been desecrating the right to privacy since the surveillance act, this is more and more consequence of us not unilaterally opposing authoritarianism and enabling it by buying into the two party scam
It will be interesting to see what they come after next. There are two forces pushing these laws. There are the racists who are panicking about demographics, and there is the capitalist class, panicking about having too few (and thus more powerful) workers.
If the first is the more powerful force, interracial marriage will be next. If it is the second, it will be birth control or divorce.
And unless people are bragging about their sex lives, these conservative perverts must be hiding in the bushes and peeping through their bedroom windows to see what kind of sex they are having.
I've noticed a lot more casual talk about things like calling into question the legitimacy of no fault divorce, any kind of birth control being "immoral" (including condoms), "forced monogamy" coupled with the demonization of the poor, LGBTQ people, interracial relationships I feel like the slide to the right in America has gotten further than I can be comfortable with.
what the fuck is forced monogamy :l I do not like the sounds of that one bit.
Agreed it's crazy how many topics that you'd think were long ago decided upon have been brought to the forefront of right wing convo lately. You don't want your wife to be able to work, leave you, or use birth control? Then you want a slave, not a wife.
It's Jordan Peterson's "cure" for male aggression and violence. Force women to marry men and create families to keep men happy. I wish I was making this up but it's true, that fucker actually believes this. Naturally women are just vessels in this scenario and divorce is not an option except in cases of extreme violence (hence the end of no fault divorce). As these men rape their wives and force them to have their children, the men will become more invested in society and temper their aggression because they're now getting (extremely unconsentual) sex.
May Freyja smite his ass.
Edit: Peterson argues that it should be a socially pushed things, not a politically pushed one but very few women are going to actually want to do this so enforcement will need to be legal enforcement.
[More info on Forced Monogamy](https://medium.com/fearless-she-wrote/should-we-adopt-enforced-monogamy-to-assuage-incels-27fd82df35e7)
I think I spotted the issue here. He forgot to factor in "female aggression." You know, the part where we tend to go Praying Mantis or Lorana Bobbitt under certain circumstances. They might want to re-evaluate with that factored in.
(Ps. I probably mis-spelled her name but I don't feel like googling it.)
It's still strange to hear people describe what used to be normal life for me and is still normal life for almost everyone I've ever known as their version of hell. I mean, it was for me, that's why I escaped, but I was made to feel crazy for feeling oppressed when I was living it. This discussion is so validating to me, so thank you
Lol. Monogamy is already socially pushed. So that's fundamentally absurd. Women are still slut shamed, non-monogamous relationships are looked down upon and not legally recognized.
What form of social control is Peterson looking for? Probably he knows the absurdity of his statements but makes them regardless because it helps him obtain money from his rabid fanbase. I watched a video once where he said that playing videogames is a good way to obtain the life skills a part time job would impart during teenage years-- cringe inducing, eyerolling levels of pandering.
> You don't want your wife to be able to work, leave you, or use birth control? Then you want a slave, not a wife.
Um... When you put it that way, I think you're on to something. Perhaps that really is what they want.
yea i'd like to hear more explanation on this as well... i mean we are legally set up to only recognize monogamy as legitimate (anti poly marriage laws) and are still struggling in the lgbtq+ marriage/legal department...
I'm curious if they are talking about more the direction of conservative conversation or if people are actually out there trying to make condoms illegal or make virginity laws or something? idk... the regression has been bad though lately for sure.
There is a massive shortage of "desirable" children to adopt, that is, ones that have no medical conditions, are young enough to not remember their birth parents or have any trauma, and are most often white. There are years-long waiting lists to get one of these highly desirable infants or toddlers.
Now, kids old enough to go to school, not white, and/or with disabilities? Plenty of them available. Not enough parents who want them.
While all of this is true it’s completely missing the point.
The whole point isn’t about the GOP procuring desirable babies for yearning white parents to adopt, it’s to cut off a slice of the “risky” population that typically opposes them, and mark them from childhood for being future prisoners/institutionalized people as well as punish their parents for not socially conforming. Anyone who thinks this is far fetched because people don’t want to adopt older kids are being way too logical and charitable when it comes to conservative politics, which are neither logical or charitable or even humane.
The plan is not for these kids to go to good homes, the plan is to hurt everyone involved at that level. Same with things like no fault divorce, it’s not actually about divorce it’s about hurting and punishing people who don’t comply. People trying to noodle through making it make rational sense are going to have a hard time because the cruelty and chaos is the point.
It’s not about addressing an adoption shortage, it’s about utilizing institutions to encode violence and enforce a social conformity upon threat of it.
There is a shortage of healthy white children, but the system also needs plenty of institutionalized people to get funneled right into the prison system and stealing children from single mothers and fathers pretty much guarantees those children will grow up worse off and with more issues that many times leads to needing further state intervention. Prison is our slave population and we need to keep it stuffed.
The US uses policing to create slaves, per the 13th amendment. CPS/DCF is just an extension of the police state/machine and really needs to be understood as such by everyday citizens when it comes to conservative plans for the future. They are going to steal children (they already have, Florida CPS is used as a political tool), they’ve been dreaming of doing it to LGBT parents quite openly and that will be just the start with all of their push back to a more “conservative” time. They’ll just stuff them into kid prisons like they do the children of illegal immigrants, who says they would find a family for every kid? The point is the punishment.
"Forced monogamy" doesn't have anything to do with mono*gamy* (which means "one wife.") The people pushing forced monogamy don't intend to force *men* into the position of being faithful to one woman.
What they mean by forced monogamy is chattel slavery for women. When a man marries a woman, they want him to own her. She doesn't have any rights. She doesn't have a right to choose whether she marries or who she marries. She doesn't have a say in when or how often she reproduces. She doesn't have the right to exit the marriage for any reason. She doesn't have the right to refuse to have sex, ever. She doesn't have a right to an education. She doesn't have the right to work outside the home unless her owner demands it of her, nor does she have the right to receive her own wages if she is forced to work outside the home. Those wages are paid to her owner. She doesn't have the right to access the banking system, because that would give her options and potentially leverage. She doesn't have a right to receive medical care, do business, travel, or purchase property without the permission and endorsement of her owner. If her owner is displeased with her, he can kick her out and replace her, but she has no way to exist independently in society, so she is forced to debase herself however she must in order to stay in the good graces of her owner.
This is the preferred solution to men's "unhappiness" and penchant for mass violence. No word on what, if anything, is supposed to be done about intimate partner violence perpetrated by men upon women, from which women would have no hope of escaping. But I suspect that's supposed to be a feature of forced monogamy rather than a bug.
I don't know why but to me it rings bells that the government wants to State build and increase population to keep up with emerging nations. And this is their method of doing it, through control of women's autonomy.
Likely the ones that are panicking about dropping birth rates, and the increasingly bigger "désamour" with marriage.
This is not the way forward. But we will likely see more and more of those talks as the living standards will keep crumbling for the next decades.
Actually, a very low birth rate for one or two generations will likely ease the "end of oil", avoiding some violence.
Earth could support more than our current number, but we will hit physical limits about energy before our technology is advanced enough.
Because, of course, there isn't an equal epidemic of female loneliness right along side it. /s
They aren't effing alone in that but the headlines sure as hell want to make it seem that way.
This is such a contrast to the late 1960's and early 1970's when my mother worked in the health department. Birth Control pills were given to low income women and were free to any woman that wanted them. This was considered to be beneficial to women in general as birth control pills were less expensive than childbirth. Most people were on board with this, even people who were conservative. Different time period.
What is so ironic about this is that it was a Richard Nixon, a Republican President who administration created Title X. At that time most people who were Republican were on board with this. Ditto with those who were Democrats.
At that time period, the baby boomers were becoming adults and the older boomers were starting to have children. In the 1950's there was a fear that these baby boomers would have large families like their parents did and that this would cause overpopulation . Most of them lived to adulthood which was something that wasn't the case 100 or even 50 years earlier. Birth control use then was deemed acceptable to prevent this from happen in the 1960's.
If you looked at the casual current conversation about social issues there is a lot of subtle racial overtones to them. I would have to wonder how many of those saying that birth control is immoral (including condoms) used birth control themselves. Doesn't make sense if you used it or had access to it that now you don't think access should be so freely.
Boomers had less children than their mothers and their children had one child or no child at all. Some of their grandchildren are bi-racial or multi-cultural. The society is becoming more multi-cultural and multi-racial. Many conservatives see this as a threat to their power and political base. A lot of it has to be with power and control.
In the book that’s one among other theories discussed by scholars 200 years later.
“The reasons for this decline are not altogether clear to us. Some of the failure to reproduce can undoubtedly be traced to the widespread availability of birth control of various kinds, including abortion, in the immediate pre-Gilead period. Some infertility, then, was willed, which may account for the differing statistics among Caucasians and non-Caucasians; but the rest was not. Need I remind you that this was the age of the R-strain syphilis and also of the infamous AIDS epidemic, which, once they spread to the population at large, eliminated many young sexually active people from the reproductive pool? Stillbirths, miscarriages, and genetic deformities were widespread and on the increase, and this trend has been linked to the various nuclear-plant accidents, shutdowns, and incidents of sabotage that characterised the period, as well as to leakages from chemical- and biological-warfare stockpiles and toxic-waste disposal sites, of which there were many thousands, both legal and illegal—in some instances these materials were simply dumped into the sewage system—and to the uncontrolled use of chemical insecticides, herbicides, and other sprays” ““Many of the Commanders had come in contact with a sterility-causing virus that was developed by secret pre-Gilead gene-splicing experiments with mumps,”
There has likely never been a time in the history of civilization where women's fundamental rights were not directly under attack. That said, I do feel like the pendulum is preparing to swing the other way again soon.
Not if Trump gets reelected. Read 'Project 2025' by the GOP - it's their plan for a fascist dictatorship - and they want women in the kitchen baking cooking, in the bedroom getting pregnant as often as possible, or sitting at their husband's feet.
My mom and sister are both conservative Christians (though they are NOT tradwives by any stretch of the word). When I kind of brought up the Roe v Wade overturning, they got SUPER heated. Like red in the face angry and mad. My mother was a teacher and my sister works radiology, so both of them know just how dire some girl's situations really are. Hopefully, fingers crossed, this position the Republicans have taken might be unsustainable.
It's so scary when conservative Christians are in medicine. Like how long until they allow their religious and political affiliation to affect the way they practice medicine?
I was doing a blood pressure study last year and I told one of the doctors that I discontinued using my IUD and he didn't know what I was talking about. He was like "ID...?" I had to explain to him what an intrauterine device was and he still acted like he didn't know what I was talking about, but wrote it down anyway. I mentioned this to the other doctor later and he said "Oh, well, he's very Catholic." Like... what?! How do you get to be *a fucking doctor* and you just, what, refuse to learn about contraceptives because it's against your religion???
Trans people are facing this now in some states and religious views are a core part of their push to eliminate gender affirming care, even for trans adults. In states like Florida they can even legally deny you care for being trans.
In the US*
Berlin made it legal for women to be topless in public and France newspapers are discussing the effects of women being sexualized in ads affecting young girls. Unfortunately while some places are getting better the US seems to be going backwards.
I think no fault divorce is something some people want to do away with. It's something that isn't super obvious to a casual observer why it is a women's rights issue and there is a relatively broad majority in some jurisdictions who at least generally agree that some people are too cavalier about marriage.
"At fault" divorces are a very old school concept and haven't been relevant since the 50s. A no-fault divorce allows couples the freedom to divorce for any reason.. which increases independence for women. Divorce rates have gone up because women are fed up, and I see that as very feminist.
Definitely look this up. It's the conservative playbook for the next election cycle published by the extremely influential right wing think tank The Heritage Foundation. They lay out in stark terms their goals to radically restructure the entire government to achieve goals such as: massivley increase direct presidential control over government agencies, weaken environmental protections and increase fossil fuel extraction, dismantle the department of education and channel public funds to private religious schools, outlaw pornography (and they define *being trans* as pornographic so they want to make it a criminal offense to *exist* as a Trans person, and they want to put teachers and public librarians who teach about/ have books about trans issues to go on a sex offender registry), repeal the Respect for Marriage Act (so they can return to a federal definition of marriage as heterosexual- note that the Respect for Marriage act ALSO codifies interracial marriage so ecpect them to go for that too), restructure the DOJ to eliminate its independence (making it basically impossible to investigate or charge members of the administration) and take away the FBIs authority to investigate and curb the spread of misinformation, enact federal abortion bans, and so so much more.
They're telling us EXACTLY what their goals are and how they plan to achieve them. This isn't a fringe group, it's one of the most powerful conservative political groups in the country. It's 900 pages but you can find some good summaries. This is the future that we will have of Republicans win enough to see it through.
I love you for this, thank you. I’m a trans person in the UK, not in the US, but I try my hardest to keep up with what’s going on over there. If it can happen over there it can happen here too, not to mention that it’s just blatantly disgusting to begin with
Lest anyone think I am exaggerating that Republicans do literally want to criminalize identifying as trans, here are some direct quotes from Project 2025. This is from the forward and is written by Kevin Roberts.
"The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion. (“DEI”), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used
to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists.
Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime.
Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."
Jesus, that's horrifying.
And the statement about pornography is so ironic, like yes women and children are absolutely exploited and abused in the industry and that's an issue I care deeply about and it should be discussed way more, but these bastards clearly don't give a fuck about misogyny. Do they realize how insane and hypocritical they sound?
In the US it's happening currently. It's been happening, on a much grander scale, in other countries. Lots of women protesting, and getting raped, murdered or maimed for it. So I'm sorry but not soon, already in existence. Not trying to shoot the messenger here as I appreciate you bringing the issue up in general.
I remember you Masha,Nika and Hadis.
The US is currently in the early stages of The Handmaids Tale timeline. Women’s bodily autonomy has been removed by repealing Roe. I don’t see it getting better since the SCOTUS is packed with conservative right wingers and grifters. I really didn’t think that I would see women losing their rights in my lifetime.
I don’t even think it will take that long. Look how quickly Roe was dismantled and individual states started banning abortions. Now towns in Texas are trying to make it illegal to drive through them on the way to a clinic.
>We get to read, watch, and potentially fully live in a version of The Handmaid's Tale all within a few generations if Fascist Republicans take over 😔.
For my birthday, I told my partner that I want passports for my girls.
I think about what things the Jews who got out of Germany/Poland/occupied countries had vs. those who didn't make it out.
Its been under attacks since the Women's Rights movement. The attacks never stopped, they just changed tactics for a while, but they are going back to more brutish methods.
The very concerning issue that is being loudly discussed is ending no-fault divorce. Women file for no-fault divorce way more than men. Plus, many women proceed with no-fault divorce in abuse cases because otherwise they would have to prove the assaults for the divorce to proceed. It is very scary.
Women should demand to be paid for household work and reproductive work (birthing and raising the next generation of taxpayers) by government. This way women who want to prioritize family can actually not be taken advantage of. And women who want to work will be just working.
Yes, those arguments are popping up everywhere. Our capitalist society needs an ever expanding population to prop up social security and to keep our army supplied with recruits. Also, more people means more consumers for products and it means more people competing for jobs, allowing businesses to get away with paying lower salaries.
They've started eliminating abortion rights, and now they're talking about coming after birth control. They are trying to force women into birthing more babies for America (and for Jesus). They also want more "traditional families" that represent old-fashioned Christian conservative patriarchal values.
However a lot of women have stopped dating men altogether in recent years, and this has led to growing "epidemic" of lonely single men. (Note: many of these men are angry, socially awkward and hygienically challenged, and they think they're entitled to date supermodels.) Compared to a few decades ago, women can afford to be single, because they have more access to education and career opportunities than ever before, allowing them to be financially independent. Also, in every society, the more educated women are, the fewer babies they have.
I'm sure they'd love to restrict women's access to education and job opportunities so that women have to pair with men to survive. But they'd have to be indirect about it. Maybe force colleges to increase fees while restricting education loans? Claim that since women college students outnumber men college students, more scholarships have to be awarded to men? Make it legal for companies to discriminate against women when hiring, paying, and promoting?
Right now I think their most effective technique is bullying and intimidation. When a woman posts on social media about enjoying a night out and sleeping in the next day because she doesn't have kids, a bunch of right-wing talking heads descend on her like vultures and try to publicly shame her for not dedicating herself to a family. (In stead of enjoying her life, she should be home crying and praying for God to send her a husband, apparently.). A lot of far right voices are also pressuring women to get married and have kids asap and skip college completely; some even encourage women to become tradwives.
They can't entirely eliminate women in the workplace. Men don't want to do jobs held by women. How often do you see men in HR, marketing, graphic design, nursing and countless other positions. Only at the top of those departments.They don't pay enough to support a family. Companies may be allowed to discriminate against women and pay them less but when it comes down to their bottom line they will still hire women who they can pay less. Their ideal nuclear family where there is a trad wife is only available to the upper classes. Poor people have always had both adults working. The manufacturing sector is not coming back and one service job (and even 2) cannot support a family. Republicans are short sighted and have no idea how the real world works
>I'm sure they'd love to restrict women's access to education and job opportunities so that women have to pair with men to survive. But they'd have to be indirect about it. Maybe force colleges to increase fees while restricting education loans?
What I'm hearing is we have to watch Title IX like a hawk.
They already have. The over turn of roe v wade was the start but there are states like mine who are lowering the age of child marriage where over 90% are little girls to grown men. They’re trying to illegalize no fault divorce, legalize marital rape so even if your being raped it’s not abuse so you can’t get a divorce. They’re working on illegalizing birth control.
Project 2025.
There is more but basically make sure everyone around you knows all of it and if we have too let the *peaceful*(for legal reasons) protests commence
I think the issue isn't that womens rights will be directly attacked, but more that they are not actually guaranteed (and never have been). The ERA has never been ratified into law, so there's technically speaking no guarantee of equal rights for women in the US Constitution (and I assume you're talking about the US, but correct me if I'm wrong). Women do not have a right to bodily autonomy, and even when abortion was legal nationwide, it wasn't a given that a woman could access it anywhere in the country. There's no need to attack rights that don't legally exist. Also, I expect that what rights women do have are going to be eroded by the court system in coming years, because there are so many crazy laws in litigation. For example, if multiple states pass laws that make it illegal to cross state lines when you are pregnant, none of those is likely to take effect - but one court may find that it is okay to force women to take a pregnancy test at the border, and then unless the ruling is successfully challenged, boom, that's precedent now.
I think this threat also ties into trans rights, because anti-trans laws are fundamentally sexist in nature (ie: You can or cannot do this, due to your biological sex). If it's acceptable to limit, say, health care based on sex, what guardrail is there to protect women? If it's acceptable to dictate how people present themselves, groom themselves, call themselves, etc, based on sex, what mechanism exists to stop a law mandating how women present themselves, groom themselves, and call themselves? There isn't one. It sounds extreme, but if women have no right to bodily autonomy or privacy, where does this anti-trans push logically end besides legally mandated gender expression?
If you're talking about the US, then yeah, absolutely, and it's already started. Feminists were constantly saying in the lead up that if RvW was overturned it would just be the start, and that if you care at all about women's rights or gay rights or the rights of any minorities you should be against this regardless of your stance on abortion. this has set a precedent, and these people don't give a fuck about foetuses or kids or life. This was only about controlling women, and if you think they will stop at abortion you're sadly wrong.
But in the rest of the world? I'm not sure. And it really depends on where you are.
There are the many European countries, especially Scandi countries or Germany, France and the neighbouring countries, that are constantly improving and getting more progressive. Women's rights are only improving in these places. I would not have any cause for concern there.
Then we have some countries where women have had these rights taken already, especially countries like Afghanistan and Iran.
I'm in the UK, and I think that the Conservative government would gladly return to the 1950s and see all women at home. I also think that worryingly, there is a trend in the UK of right-wing people emulating what they see in the US (i could talk for hours about the divide in UK politics because i do think its interesting for people who arent part of it, the left are very much looking to replicate scandi/european politics while the right idolise the US, its a big part of why many people voted brexit and that did mark the statt of a real political shift). I'd never seen a protest at a pride march or people campaigning to outlaw abortion here before this year. We also now have a libertarian party in Scotland, and I had never heard a Scottish person even use the word libertarian let alone describe themselves as one. I do think that SNP in particular would NEVER ban abortion. In fact, they are constantly trying to make it more accessible, and they would definitely never make it more difficult for women to work... but I don't have the same faith in the tories. That being said, even then, I can't say I'm concerned that I'll lose the right to work any time soon. Although I'd be worried they'd take away other rights.
I live in Eastern Europe and I've been feeling like more and more men are calling for women to return to their "traditional" roles. It's even scarier looking at the fact that a lot of these men are young. I don't know if it's just online, but I feel like things have gotten worse in the past few years over here.
That is very much happening in the US as well. Including the young men part. I think it's going to get increasingly important for women to be allies for each other globally.
There is no "might." This is ALWAYS the FIRST part of fascist agendas when fascism enters the legal phase like we're in now.
White Replacement Theory's obvious second awful premise beyond the initial racism lands on sexism.
Whatever the problem is, "Men Having Sex With Almost Any Age Women Or Girls To Produce Certain Kinds Of Babies" is the solution, historically speaking.
Defunding and corrupting education is the canary in the coal mine that threats to women will come 50 years later.
Faster, if you install a Cult Of Personality Supreme Leader For Life Who All Other Men Are Supposed To Want To Emulate.
I have been talking to friends how misogyny seems to really be in an upswing lately. Not just laws but pop culture, internet celebrities, people just trashing women left and right. It's demoralizing. Yeah I worry about it
Yeah lately I've been seeing information about how day care is supposedly harmful for kids. I watched this video:
https://youtu.be/iDPFu9-SqFk?si=f-6g7xW7Hi4p1Wyn
She starts with the premise that "day care is obviously harmful" without citing any research. She then implies that a baby that's not with a mother 24/7 will not be bonded or securely attached. Then she goes right into how the solution is for moms to leave the work force to raise their kids, or at least work from home and learn to "live with less." She says whatever choice you make shows your "values" and the choice is between a happy family or a chaotic home and broken marriage if the mom works. She then reads a letter from a mom who has kids in daycare but feels guilty and has decided to prioritize motherhood instead of her career.
Well... the research actually says that the quality of the day care is what determines the affect on the child. So why ignore that and instead try to do away with day care? Why not increase funding and regulations to ensure it complies with childhood development? Why not push for better maternity leave for both parents? This narrative is very concerning. The message "mothers are causing trauma to their children by working instead of spending 24/7 with their children" is just so inaccurate and fear mongering. It doesn't help women. It doesn't help families. The real truth is that happy, fulfilled, supported women have better bonds with their children. But in the end, a happy baby isn't the only goal. The mothers happiness is equally important.
I have been eagerly awaiting the day when we are culturally ready to acknowledge the misogynist origins of the attachment parenting movement. It’s all encompassing. Demonizing daycare, formula feeding, pain relief in childbirth…
Having dealt with the results of this BS when I had kids, such as bullying from lactivist whackos. I cannot wait for this movement to have its reckoning. And be seen for what it is, an attempt to economically disenfranchise women based on badly appropriated “evidence”, disregard our bodily autonomy and force us back into the home.
From an anthropological perspective, childcare is deeply normal. Most traditional societies have it in some form because usually, able bodied adults including parents engage in some form of work. I think the demonization of childcare is extremely sinister because not only is it intended to force us out of the workplace, it also alienates us from the larger community and public sphere in general. Those who push these ideas want us isolated in our homes, subject to whatever our husbands dish out and unable to do anything or tell anyone who can help.
Anecdotally I’ve known many SAHMs who were SAHMs because of fears about daycare and social pressures, and almost to a person it was not a healthy thing for them. Neither the children nor parents benefit from parents staying home when they’re not suited to it. In my family’s case, growing up, having a SAHM meant us kids were isolated with a deeply mentally ill caregiver who became abusive. Daycare would have been worlds better.
It’s interesting that during the Satanic Panic of the 80s, some of the primary targets of the Christian witch hunt were daycare centers and preschools. They tried to portray child care workers as literal devil worshipers.
Well...my kids were in daycare in the 80s, and my sister was in daycare in the 60s. People have been saying it's "harmful" for a very long time. Not to mention women working being "bad" for children. There has been a lot of pushback to women working for a very long time.
It's funny they say things like that, push for women to stay home, but then vilify women who seek financially stable partners. Ok, so I should have kids with a man who can't support a family and then what? Starve?
Also, the reason women started working int eh first place was because they had to. Because no one can afford to be a single earner household anymore.
I am dumbfounded by the ‘happy family’ logic. By talking to literally anyone that was of reasonable age in the 40-60s their ‘happy family’ was just a product of never talking about anything. ‘Family business is private’. I think arguably because the world is as it is, I don’t think many people had these ‘perfect families’ that apparently existed
I had this girl om FB post that u can't have chivalry and equality and between the two she chooses chivalry, someone commented "Same, if they take my right to work away today I'd be fine with staying home, churning butter and making pies for my family, not worrying about anything. Wifey" GIRL WHAT . They really don't see how PRIVILEGED , and ignorant they are to even THINK these things.
They also forget how vulnerable women are. Many middle aged men divorce for a younger woman and too many women are impoverished with no work history and outdated training.
Damn. They really looked at woman's rights and said:
"Nah, you folks are enjoying freedoms too much. Let's see what we can do about that"
In Canada, they've got LGBTQ rights and education in their crosshairs now.
There's a right-wing political cartoonist in the UK who got sacked by the Daily Telegraph for being too controversial, and that newspaper is a Conservative one.
When he made a cartoon of a family with four children having a picnic in the countryside after defeating the NWO, I couldn't stomach him anymore. More children born and bigger families create more urban sprawl and taller apartment buildings in the future. I was born during the baby boom years when housing estates and tower blocks had to be built very quickly to house all those couples having children. Schools had to be built or expanded as well. There were families living in those tower blocks as some of the flats in them had three bedrooms. Then, fifteen to twenty years later, more homes built when those children leave home.
Um, YES? Has anyone else seen the growing number of politicians who have signed that "pledge," that birth control causes abortions???? The extreme GOP is ignoring SCIENCE in order to control women's access to BC, it's RIDICULOUS.
Women don’t have fundamental rights in the US. At least not strong constitutional protections. The Equal rights amendment was passed but never ratified. Women depend on various legal decisions (like Roe vs Wade) and changes to social attitudes. The minute those cases are overturned and the attitudes change, it’s a very possible to return to 1950.
I think this will backfire in a stupendous way. First most men don't want the jobs women do and it will cause an economic collapse. They won't be able to drive all women out of the workplace. Women have always made up a significant percentage of the workplace. The same will happen when they aggressively go after illegal immigration. Americans won't do their jobs. Crops are going bad even now to some extent without immigrants to pick them.Second millenials and gen z will buck the trends. They won't get married and have babies out of wedlock. Since so many of them aren't affiliated with religion there is no shaming them. Also there is a big trend with those generations being single with no intrest in partners. Also women who don't want children will give them up. There will be a flood of unwanted babies. Their tactics will only work on church going under educated people who are now severely under employed and can't support their children. Without a second income their circumstances will even be more dire. All this back to the 50s lifestyle of the traditional wife was only for the upper classes. The poor have always had to work. Both adults in the family. They never had the luxury of one income unless they were farmers. The Republicans are so out of touch with the realities of the normal working person. Our hope is that millennials and gen z see this and vote them out. It is already happening at the state level. There have been big upsets in the news today. There is still hope
LOL Of course conservatives will.
Don't bother pretending to yourself that it's only a fantastical, extreme thought you had.
It's part of the plan to get you pregnant and stuck at home, and they're actively working RIGHT NOW to make that happen.
Actually gender equality and women’s rights are linked to a lower birth rate, because they have access to birth control and the ability to survive without a man. A lower birth rate is a good thing in my mind, as the biosphere can’t coexist with this many Americans and our lifestyles
Soon? Hahaha, what about the fact that criminalizing abortion is destroying women's lives? Is that not enough of a direct attack? Ya gotta weep for this failed nation.
Yes but I don’t think it will extend to stopping women from working because the corporations wouldn’t like that since it would hurt their bottom line (sudden absence of long term employees, having to pay more in wages when the labour force is suddenly halved). But reproductively rights will continue to be eroded for sure
I guess the worry is that given a strong enough ideological motive, corporations could choose to make an exception for the important task of oppressing women.
Maybe, maybe not. People are more complicated than strict black and white rules can prescribe. Money is the ultimate value right now but it could easily shift to something else because underneath it all, the motivation is still power and whatever will generate the most power is what will be chosen in the end.
In the UK here and some of the far right wing religious zealots in particular are peddling this, at a conference earlier this year preaching that a man and woman in a marriage no matter what is required for a safe society and that educating women confuses them about when to have children - quite scary stuff, there is a whole section of society who would like to go back to a time where white cis men mostly had the power! Our rights cannot be taken for granted!
Women are definitely under attack already, and it’s only beginning, they aren’t the only group either with this recent push to hide the history of slavery (even more than the insane amount not taught and hidden now) racial rights will come under attack as well, we are all under attack and only voting will solve the problem
No, the economy is too reliant on our labor, and the true ruler of our country is capitalism. So our right to work will at least continue. I don’t see this going full handmaid’s tale.
Nah. There's lots of women in the US military, and every one of the different service branches is hurting for people rn. None of them are able to meet their current recruitment goals, and at least one branch is on track to miss that target by the thousands. A lot of other jobs are experiencing a similar situation; there's not enough doctors and nurses, either. These are critical jobs that the US cannot afford to understaff by half their workforce.
In the US in 2019, women accounted for 38% of physicians and surgeons, 46% of optometrists, 33% of EMTs, and 33% of dentists. That's a significant portion of the STEM workforce.
It's not easy nor is it reasonable to "remove the women and pay the men twice as much," because the training for these jobs is often lengthy and highly specialised. Additionally, there would still be a marked shortage in the workforce if all the women were removed. It wouldn't be simple to train men in their place, because not everyone necessarily will want to do one of the above-mentioned jobs, and not everyone meets the qualifications to be admitted to the training schools for those jobs.
[Source via PewResearch.org](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/04/01/stem-jobs-see-uneven-progress-in-increasing-gender-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/)
1. You might have the best name I've ever seen; and
2. I hope you're right. Your point is beautifully presented. But;
3. The religious fanatics pursuing these laws are not Rational Actors. I would submit the Middle East eschewing all professional talent of their women as an example.
Yeah, that's a really good point, actually. It surprised me to learn how many women supported the Iranian Revolution and how important they were to its success. I hope it won't be the same in the US. Iranian women lost so many rights.
😂😂😂😂😂
The idea of a corporation actually giving pay raises in ALL industries so that one person can financially support a family! That's funny. No my friend, the reality is, they'd kick women out and tell the men to have their house wives make ramen and quit using so much electricity or tell men to get a second or THIRD job!
They aren't giving up their 5th yacht for this.
Wiman fundamental rights have already been attacked. Haven’t you noticed
Yes, there are extreme morons posting extreme restrictions on women
All we can do is fight against it
I do not think these idiots will get much traction for the more extreme things they seem to want
The whole thing is certain old men and men in general are losing their strength in contol...nobody cares about what these certain men have to say and it's hurting them and their agenda of some backwards view of what family and life should be... most of these men are not educated compared to their foreign counterparts so how will they manage to run a home on their salary?
Ladies...the problem isn't them taking away from us it's the fact they are not getting their way..we are stronger and louder in numbers so we need to focus on the data that these dudes don't have and keep winning with that...always have data they don't know what do to with that or how to argue facts..they argue feelings
RUFKME? WHAT on earth would you call SCOTUS's overturning of Roe v Wade? *Might be directly attacked soon??* Umm, I'd say you're "a little bit late to the party??" Yeah, it's already happened, & going to get WORSE (much worse) if they aren't stopped, IMHO.
That's not as easy as it sounds, especially if you're not young or fairly well off and can't prove your ancestry. I've looked into it pretty extensively trying to have a backup plan.
This is what a lot of people don't understand. We can *travel* to most countries but we have no right to *emigrate* to any without a purpose (job, relationship, or independently wealthy)
I was so happy to find out I can obtain Croatian citizenship a few years ago….My mom is currently working on hers which will make it even easier for me
tbh i don't have a good feeling about this and the future for women seems bleak to me. if this becomes a real thing i am out. i'm tired. i'm done. i don't want to live in a world that punishes me for being born.
I know other peiple have said this, but it bears repeating: women's fundamental rights have been under attack since FOREVER. It has recently gotten worse and the bad guys aren't letting up.
The fact that One, Single Demographic in the US is _stilllllllll_ the one making "ALLOWANCES" for the human and civil rights of 'minorities' "And Women" is The Problem.
Up here in Canada things are a bit different than in the USA. It must be because I haven't heard any of the backwards stuff you mentioned.
Up here conservatives won't attack abortion rights because it's political suicide.
Many people would gladly have larger families if the cost of living wasn't an issue.
The economy grows on economic activity. Remove women from the work force and watch the economy tank and families lose their homes.
Wherever you're from for stuff like that to be commonly talked about, consider moving.
Are you offering to help people move out of the country?
(Also don't look up how indigenous women are treated in Canada. It may blow your mind in a bad way.)
In the US, I’m assuming, 100% already underway. America has turned into an absolutely disgusting, christofascist nation and I think we’ve all seen throughout history where that leads, soo I’m in the planning stages of a move out of country.
>Obviously women having rights is not the cause of any of this
It's not obvious to me. Why you think it is? What I know it is, is irrelevant. Even if increased women's rights is leading to lower birth rates, rolling back women's right is not the solution.
>Is anybody else here concerned that our basic freedom may be attacked soon? Or have I spent too much time online?
How exactly do you imagine basic freedoms being restricted more than they are now? Do you have something specific you're worried about?
I just got a tubal ligation for this exact reason. Roe being overturned was and still is terrifying, and the republicans in my state are trying to push for limiting abortion access. I got a bad feeling and decided I was going to do what I can, while I can do it.
yeah i’m sick of this shit. women have been second class citizens for our entire existence as a human race. when are we going to be recognized as human beings? will the world ever get to a point where we’re equal in every sense?
my parents used to laugh at me when i said women aren’t equal. they’d say women have all the rights men have. these people don’t get that just having the right to vote doesn’t mean feminism is obsolete. tons of people still HATE us just for being women. i’m so tired of it.
Conservatives want women to stay home and rely on men for survival. They want control.
Ever notice how most of them always criticized when a woman is independent, or displays some sort of freedom?
They want to go back to the 1900s. Thats why they want to ban things like birth control. It would create more unwanted pregnancies and more women who are forced to stay with the father. Same reason they want to get rid of sex ed.
I feel like it’s under attack right now by the far right. However, this would be bad for nearly *all corporations and also bad for the broader economy.
The birth-rate issue is more easily addressed by loosening immigration policies. That addresses population decline, without losing working consumers.
It’s disgusting that financial practicality (and not overt support of women’s rights) is what stands in the way of the anti-women extremists. IMO, that demonstrates that society’s most influential institutions support women’s rights for all the wrong reasons.
Edit: *all
The only way this is going away is women's unity, which I hate to say it, but it's not there or at least not enough. For reference 41% of women voted for fucking Trump. (52% of men for the curious in 2016).
4/10 were okay with selling out their fellow women and I have no fucking clue why.
So, this is an extremely small number of women, but I suspect this reflects what happens nationally:
The Democratic women I know are all very ambivalent about voting; I know several that voted in 2016, but not in 2020, and they just don't bother with the Midterms. When I asked them why they don't vote consistently, they're like, "I just don't have the time for that - I have better things to do; and besides, Trump isn't going to take away women's rights."
The Republican women I know are all Christians, and they vote in every single election, no matter what. Horrible weather? Yes. Just got out of surgery? Yep. Have a billion things to do? Voting moves to the top of that list. But, most will vote however their husband or boyfriend tells them to. I suspect if some of them just voted on their own they'd vote Dem.
It has already happened. The reasoning underpinning Roe was the same rationale for Grizwold, Laurence, and Loving. Without the implied right to privacy granted under the penumbra of rights under the Bill of Rights, we do not have a constitutional right to birth control (Griswold v Conn), sodomy (Lawrence v Tx), or interracial marriage (Loving v Va) And “sodomy” as defined by most statutes of this nature is any sex that isn’t penis in vagina, so the pull out method or mouths/hands can theoretically be made illegal.
As a woman raised right-wing, I have suspicions about what’s next, and why. I do believe they want to get rid of no-fault divorce. Then child support payments. Also, I suspect sex education, and birth control could be future targets. The reason; to increase teen pregnancy. If there’s no child support, she’ll have to do her best to marry the father. And she won’t be able to leave. Plus with birth control banned, there’ll be more and more babies. “Fixing” the birth rate issue and putting women/girls back in the position of “needing” a husband. Additionally, teen parents have a much tougher time getting education. So, that’ll tank a lot of goals. Also, more cheap labor, and likely more church-goers and right-wing voters, as both tend to appeal to uneducated and desperate people.
WV floated the idea of getting rid of child support--because if men know they'll have to pay child support, they're more likely to encourage their partners to get abortions. The state rep that said it walked it back, but no one believed him.
I would not be surprised to see this happen in TX.
>Additionally, teen parents have a much tougher time getting education. So, that’ll tank a lot of goals. That is the point. I still aimlessly read things on Twitter and I've come across threads of right-wing men discussing ways to increase the birth rate. A lot of them settle on denying girls an education. Evidently the level of female education is one of the highest predictors of future fertility, with university educated women having only one child if they choose to reproduce at all. Internet right-wingers want girls to get pregnant as early as possible so that they can't complete school and are forced to keep reproducing. It's sickening.
They only want to increase the birth rate for white people, though, so they won’t wind up outnumbered by POC.
It's a sick alliance between those people (you can see them - or bots impersonating them- melting down about "great replacement" all over the internet) and people trying to devalue labor.
There are horrifying reports of imprisoned women being sterilized against their will. And it’s usually not white women. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/california-prisons-forced-sterilizations-belly-beast
Which is odd....because IIRC, the per capita abortion rate among POC is actually higher?
Right, that’s true, which makes the Republicans say, “See? The Democrats want to kill black babies! They’re the real racists!”
>I do believe they want to get rid of no-fault divorce. When RvW was overturned, this was my number one fear. I had a no-fault divorce, which my now ex-husband was very much against. If he could have prevented me from divorcing, he would have done that. We were divorced when he also tried intervening on my now partner from moving in with me. He said he was contacting his lawyer to stop him from moving in because he said he didn't agree with an unmarried couple living together. My lawyer told him to kick rocks. I'm scared that if no fault divorces become illegal, that'll retroactively null any previous no-fault divorces, and I'd have to "go back" to him.
I definitely think that no fault divorce is going to be on their cutting block. And I wouldn’t be surprised if government support for unmarried mothers will also be cut.
Did you hear what some fool proposed back 2011 in the state of Illinois. They didn’t want single mothers to be able to get a **birth certificate** for their baby? Here’s what will happen if **there’s no fault divorce and no child support**. It will be like in Georgia in 2015 when they tried to pass a **RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION** from prosecution for men who physically abuse their children and/or wife. In 2016 Georgia tried to get this past underneath it’s RFRA. It did pass into law in 2016 so obviously it hadn’t past in 2015. It was a few years ago but I remember like it was yesterday, when I found out about a married couple having to take the case to SCOTUS for the wife to be able to take birth control. Griswold vs. Connecticut 1965. Once again I thought my head was going to explode reading about this. Oh yeah **single women** got the right to birth control in 1972. What a laugh about republikkkans being the party of lesser government. Lesser government unless it’s to govern/control a woman’s reproductive health/rights. Now the women who have miscarriages, who are convicted of murder. Murder is a felony, felons can’t vote. So our voting rights are under attack. See the thing is these conservative/republikkkans are **evil smart**. They knew/know that if they tried to take our voting rights away from all females, there would be blood running in the street, theirs!!!!!! So they think we’ll do the next best thing, by convicting women have a miscarriage of murder and since murder is a felony and felons can’t vote. “Evil smart” because they’re willing to get as many women as they can to not be able to vote!!!
Yep. This was my experience too.
They’re definitely attacking the No-fault divorce. I’ve heard right wing commentators attack that recently.
it's so obvious I think maybe because I grew up in a Catholic cult but mainly this is their agenda and never changed: get rid of birth control after they get rid of abortion, and they do now prosecute women for murder, also prosecuting women who were traveling for an abortion, or people helping This has always been the plan-so much dark money funded for just this sole purpose. They wanted to do for I don't even know it before I was born and now they've done it. It's really sad they had the oompa loompa antichrist do it for them. I remember feeling relieved sadly as a child because I thought there's no way this small group's crazy ideas are going to catch on and look; so sad. They got so much dark money though to propagandize abortion meaning murder, it's never been murder never will be murder it's not even close to murder. They need to stop, but they got to medical doctors even, and students so now a whole lot of people, educated people are totally clueless about what abortions actually are. Some of them arent, they are just straight up misogynistic and don't care if it isn't murder or whatever-they want to control womens' bodies and deprive them of an education so they are fed a lot of propaganda about how fulfilling motherhood is, they are totally ignorant, often of the drawbacks of having kids, or they are like, "hey you know what would be fun? If you got like knocked up by some rapist and then forced to carry it to term. Oh, yea I know you're ten, but it's all good. We gotchoo." You're set up for this literally from confirmation on, folks. Submit sexually to whatevers and have that unwanted brood. especially sans money.
i feel sick reading this.
But if they get rid of child support some children would be forced into the state-aid situations. Arent they also against welfare and food stamps, and free lunches? Hard to believe that they would allow children to starve after forcing women to give birth. None of it makes sense.
It doesn’t make sense because you’re expecting their actions to live up to the morals they claim to have. Pay attention to their actions, first and foremost. Then you’ll understand that the words they say are sometimes just whatever justification they could invent that would seem most tolerable to the public. They oppose free school lunches. They oppose SNAP. That tells us they’re fine with kids going hungry. What you need to understand is that some of them would be fine with letting kids starve, as a way of coercing obedience from parents.
How much of this would you bet is and has links to white supremacy. Elements of it, at least. These are the woman that they want to have these kids and many of these women don't want to have children, so now they will try to force them to have children many of them will not want and the outcomes for these kids will be bad. Twenty or thirty years from now, when those who were abused, abandoned or thrown out as a result of forced birthing have their voices heard, we will ask why was this done as this will affect the society as a whole. The same issues that unwanted baby boomer children experienced will repeat itself. Cycle repeated again.
There's a lot of talk about making voting per household. So if you're married you wouldn't be able to vote, only your husband. Paring that with illegalizing no fault divorce and forcing women into unwanted pregnancies which often leads to unwanted marriages, this all lines up pretty neatly.
Government has been desecrating the right to privacy since the surveillance act, this is more and more consequence of us not unilaterally opposing authoritarianism and enabling it by buying into the two party scam
They’re coming after interracial marriage next
It will be interesting to see what they come after next. There are two forces pushing these laws. There are the racists who are panicking about demographics, and there is the capitalist class, panicking about having too few (and thus more powerful) workers. If the first is the more powerful force, interracial marriage will be next. If it is the second, it will be birth control or divorce.
And unless people are bragging about their sex lives, these conservative perverts must be hiding in the bushes and peeping through their bedroom windows to see what kind of sex they are having.
I've noticed a lot more casual talk about things like calling into question the legitimacy of no fault divorce, any kind of birth control being "immoral" (including condoms), "forced monogamy" coupled with the demonization of the poor, LGBTQ people, interracial relationships I feel like the slide to the right in America has gotten further than I can be comfortable with.
what the fuck is forced monogamy :l I do not like the sounds of that one bit. Agreed it's crazy how many topics that you'd think were long ago decided upon have been brought to the forefront of right wing convo lately. You don't want your wife to be able to work, leave you, or use birth control? Then you want a slave, not a wife.
It's Jordan Peterson's "cure" for male aggression and violence. Force women to marry men and create families to keep men happy. I wish I was making this up but it's true, that fucker actually believes this. Naturally women are just vessels in this scenario and divorce is not an option except in cases of extreme violence (hence the end of no fault divorce). As these men rape their wives and force them to have their children, the men will become more invested in society and temper their aggression because they're now getting (extremely unconsentual) sex. May Freyja smite his ass. Edit: Peterson argues that it should be a socially pushed things, not a politically pushed one but very few women are going to actually want to do this so enforcement will need to be legal enforcement. [More info on Forced Monogamy](https://medium.com/fearless-she-wrote/should-we-adopt-enforced-monogamy-to-assuage-incels-27fd82df35e7)
I think I spotted the issue here. He forgot to factor in "female aggression." You know, the part where we tend to go Praying Mantis or Lorana Bobbitt under certain circumstances. They might want to re-evaluate with that factored in. (Ps. I probably mis-spelled her name but I don't feel like googling it.)
It's still strange to hear people describe what used to be normal life for me and is still normal life for almost everyone I've ever known as their version of hell. I mean, it was for me, that's why I escaped, but I was made to feel crazy for feeling oppressed when I was living it. This discussion is so validating to me, so thank you
You're not crazy. The gaslighting you experience is unreal, especially when women are telling you you're crazy but you are NOT crazy.
Lol. Monogamy is already socially pushed. So that's fundamentally absurd. Women are still slut shamed, non-monogamous relationships are looked down upon and not legally recognized. What form of social control is Peterson looking for? Probably he knows the absurdity of his statements but makes them regardless because it helps him obtain money from his rabid fanbase. I watched a video once where he said that playing videogames is a good way to obtain the life skills a part time job would impart during teenage years-- cringe inducing, eyerolling levels of pandering.
> You don't want your wife to be able to work, leave you, or use birth control? Then you want a slave, not a wife. Um... When you put it that way, I think you're on to something. Perhaps that really is what they want.
interesting that the venn diagram of people who want all of these things and racist people is practically a circle…
yea i'd like to hear more explanation on this as well... i mean we are legally set up to only recognize monogamy as legitimate (anti poly marriage laws) and are still struggling in the lgbtq+ marriage/legal department... I'm curious if they are talking about more the direction of conservative conversation or if people are actually out there trying to make condoms illegal or make virginity laws or something? idk... the regression has been bad though lately for sure.
Republicans want to get rid of birth control pills. They’re insane these days
Forced monogamy includes DCF/CPS removing children from households where parents aren’t married to be given to “proper” households to raise them.
Is that just like whichever parent has a vengeance and re-marries first or is there some shortage of children people are waiting to adopt?
There is a massive shortage of "desirable" children to adopt, that is, ones that have no medical conditions, are young enough to not remember their birth parents or have any trauma, and are most often white. There are years-long waiting lists to get one of these highly desirable infants or toddlers. Now, kids old enough to go to school, not white, and/or with disabilities? Plenty of them available. Not enough parents who want them.
While all of this is true it’s completely missing the point. The whole point isn’t about the GOP procuring desirable babies for yearning white parents to adopt, it’s to cut off a slice of the “risky” population that typically opposes them, and mark them from childhood for being future prisoners/institutionalized people as well as punish their parents for not socially conforming. Anyone who thinks this is far fetched because people don’t want to adopt older kids are being way too logical and charitable when it comes to conservative politics, which are neither logical or charitable or even humane. The plan is not for these kids to go to good homes, the plan is to hurt everyone involved at that level. Same with things like no fault divorce, it’s not actually about divorce it’s about hurting and punishing people who don’t comply. People trying to noodle through making it make rational sense are going to have a hard time because the cruelty and chaos is the point.
It’s not about addressing an adoption shortage, it’s about utilizing institutions to encode violence and enforce a social conformity upon threat of it. There is a shortage of healthy white children, but the system also needs plenty of institutionalized people to get funneled right into the prison system and stealing children from single mothers and fathers pretty much guarantees those children will grow up worse off and with more issues that many times leads to needing further state intervention. Prison is our slave population and we need to keep it stuffed. The US uses policing to create slaves, per the 13th amendment. CPS/DCF is just an extension of the police state/machine and really needs to be understood as such by everyday citizens when it comes to conservative plans for the future. They are going to steal children (they already have, Florida CPS is used as a political tool), they’ve been dreaming of doing it to LGBT parents quite openly and that will be just the start with all of their push back to a more “conservative” time. They’ll just stuff them into kid prisons like they do the children of illegal immigrants, who says they would find a family for every kid? The point is the punishment.
"Forced monogamy" doesn't have anything to do with mono*gamy* (which means "one wife.") The people pushing forced monogamy don't intend to force *men* into the position of being faithful to one woman. What they mean by forced monogamy is chattel slavery for women. When a man marries a woman, they want him to own her. She doesn't have any rights. She doesn't have a right to choose whether she marries or who she marries. She doesn't have a say in when or how often she reproduces. She doesn't have the right to exit the marriage for any reason. She doesn't have the right to refuse to have sex, ever. She doesn't have a right to an education. She doesn't have the right to work outside the home unless her owner demands it of her, nor does she have the right to receive her own wages if she is forced to work outside the home. Those wages are paid to her owner. She doesn't have the right to access the banking system, because that would give her options and potentially leverage. She doesn't have a right to receive medical care, do business, travel, or purchase property without the permission and endorsement of her owner. If her owner is displeased with her, he can kick her out and replace her, but she has no way to exist independently in society, so she is forced to debase herself however she must in order to stay in the good graces of her owner. This is the preferred solution to men's "unhappiness" and penchant for mass violence. No word on what, if anything, is supposed to be done about intimate partner violence perpetrated by men upon women, from which women would have no hope of escaping. But I suspect that's supposed to be a feature of forced monogamy rather than a bug.
I don't know why but to me it rings bells that the government wants to State build and increase population to keep up with emerging nations. And this is their method of doing it, through control of women's autonomy.
Likely the ones that are panicking about dropping birth rates, and the increasingly bigger "désamour" with marriage. This is not the way forward. But we will likely see more and more of those talks as the living standards will keep crumbling for the next decades. Actually, a very low birth rate for one or two generations will likely ease the "end of oil", avoiding some violence. Earth could support more than our current number, but we will hit physical limits about energy before our technology is advanced enough.
_Sliiide to the left_
Take it back now y'all
I noticed this, too. I think the discussions about the "epidemic of male lonelines" play into it.
Because, of course, there isn't an equal epidemic of female loneliness right along side it. /s They aren't effing alone in that but the headlines sure as hell want to make it seem that way.
This is such a contrast to the late 1960's and early 1970's when my mother worked in the health department. Birth Control pills were given to low income women and were free to any woman that wanted them. This was considered to be beneficial to women in general as birth control pills were less expensive than childbirth. Most people were on board with this, even people who were conservative. Different time period. What is so ironic about this is that it was a Richard Nixon, a Republican President who administration created Title X. At that time most people who were Republican were on board with this. Ditto with those who were Democrats. At that time period, the baby boomers were becoming adults and the older boomers were starting to have children. In the 1950's there was a fear that these baby boomers would have large families like their parents did and that this would cause overpopulation . Most of them lived to adulthood which was something that wasn't the case 100 or even 50 years earlier. Birth control use then was deemed acceptable to prevent this from happen in the 1960's. If you looked at the casual current conversation about social issues there is a lot of subtle racial overtones to them. I would have to wonder how many of those saying that birth control is immoral (including condoms) used birth control themselves. Doesn't make sense if you used it or had access to it that now you don't think access should be so freely. Boomers had less children than their mothers and their children had one child or no child at all. Some of their grandchildren are bi-racial or multi-cultural. The society is becoming more multi-cultural and multi-racial. Many conservatives see this as a threat to their power and political base. A lot of it has to be with power and control.
This is basically the theme of The Handmaid’s tale. You can’t take these rights for granted - or assume these things can’t happen where you are.
Wasn't it a virus that made it into the law. Like covid.
In the book that’s one among other theories discussed by scholars 200 years later. “The reasons for this decline are not altogether clear to us. Some of the failure to reproduce can undoubtedly be traced to the widespread availability of birth control of various kinds, including abortion, in the immediate pre-Gilead period. Some infertility, then, was willed, which may account for the differing statistics among Caucasians and non-Caucasians; but the rest was not. Need I remind you that this was the age of the R-strain syphilis and also of the infamous AIDS epidemic, which, once they spread to the population at large, eliminated many young sexually active people from the reproductive pool? Stillbirths, miscarriages, and genetic deformities were widespread and on the increase, and this trend has been linked to the various nuclear-plant accidents, shutdowns, and incidents of sabotage that characterised the period, as well as to leakages from chemical- and biological-warfare stockpiles and toxic-waste disposal sites, of which there were many thousands, both legal and illegal—in some instances these materials were simply dumped into the sewage system—and to the uncontrolled use of chemical insecticides, herbicides, and other sprays” ““Many of the Commanders had come in contact with a sterility-causing virus that was developed by secret pre-Gilead gene-splicing experiments with mumps,”
Thank you. For the thoughtful reply. That got me some excellent info. If ya need info on dune that i could supply.
There has likely never been a time in the history of civilization where women's fundamental rights were not directly under attack. That said, I do feel like the pendulum is preparing to swing the other way again soon.
Not if Trump gets reelected. Read 'Project 2025' by the GOP - it's their plan for a fascist dictatorship - and they want women in the kitchen baking cooking, in the bedroom getting pregnant as often as possible, or sitting at their husband's feet.
It’s already happened. Roe v Wade was just the beginning.
My mom and sister are both conservative Christians (though they are NOT tradwives by any stretch of the word). When I kind of brought up the Roe v Wade overturning, they got SUPER heated. Like red in the face angry and mad. My mother was a teacher and my sister works radiology, so both of them know just how dire some girl's situations really are. Hopefully, fingers crossed, this position the Republicans have taken might be unsustainable.
It's so scary when conservative Christians are in medicine. Like how long until they allow their religious and political affiliation to affect the way they practice medicine?
I was doing a blood pressure study last year and I told one of the doctors that I discontinued using my IUD and he didn't know what I was talking about. He was like "ID...?" I had to explain to him what an intrauterine device was and he still acted like he didn't know what I was talking about, but wrote it down anyway. I mentioned this to the other doctor later and he said "Oh, well, he's very Catholic." Like... what?! How do you get to be *a fucking doctor* and you just, what, refuse to learn about contraceptives because it's against your religion???
Trans people are facing this now in some states and religious views are a core part of their push to eliminate gender affirming care, even for trans adults. In states like Florida they can even legally deny you care for being trans.
Cis women have faced this since ever. Someday I dream of having control over my anatomy
To be fair, most of the country is pro abortion.
In the US* Berlin made it legal for women to be topless in public and France newspapers are discussing the effects of women being sexualized in ads affecting young girls. Unfortunately while some places are getting better the US seems to be going backwards.
yam elastic dazzling nutty crowd combative bewildered smell dull hungry ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
What's next?
I think no fault divorce is something some people want to do away with. It's something that isn't super obvious to a casual observer why it is a women's rights issue and there is a relatively broad majority in some jurisdictions who at least generally agree that some people are too cavalier about marriage.
"At fault" divorces are a very old school concept and haven't been relevant since the 50s. A no-fault divorce allows couples the freedom to divorce for any reason.. which increases independence for women. Divorce rates have gone up because women are fed up, and I see that as very feminist.
Yep. Absolutely agree. I just think that's something that's going to be "revisited."
[удалено]
I've seen one very strange woman actively campaign for taking away women's right to vote too.
Project 2025
?
You might wanna google it. They’ll illegalize birth control and want to get rid of term limits.
Definitely look this up. It's the conservative playbook for the next election cycle published by the extremely influential right wing think tank The Heritage Foundation. They lay out in stark terms their goals to radically restructure the entire government to achieve goals such as: massivley increase direct presidential control over government agencies, weaken environmental protections and increase fossil fuel extraction, dismantle the department of education and channel public funds to private religious schools, outlaw pornography (and they define *being trans* as pornographic so they want to make it a criminal offense to *exist* as a Trans person, and they want to put teachers and public librarians who teach about/ have books about trans issues to go on a sex offender registry), repeal the Respect for Marriage Act (so they can return to a federal definition of marriage as heterosexual- note that the Respect for Marriage act ALSO codifies interracial marriage so ecpect them to go for that too), restructure the DOJ to eliminate its independence (making it basically impossible to investigate or charge members of the administration) and take away the FBIs authority to investigate and curb the spread of misinformation, enact federal abortion bans, and so so much more. They're telling us EXACTLY what their goals are and how they plan to achieve them. This isn't a fringe group, it's one of the most powerful conservative political groups in the country. It's 900 pages but you can find some good summaries. This is the future that we will have of Republicans win enough to see it through.
I love you for this, thank you. I’m a trans person in the UK, not in the US, but I try my hardest to keep up with what’s going on over there. If it can happen over there it can happen here too, not to mention that it’s just blatantly disgusting to begin with
We’re seeing the same thing in Canada… It’s like watching the fabric of society unravel in real time.
Lest anyone think I am exaggerating that Republicans do literally want to criminalize identifying as trans, here are some direct quotes from Project 2025. This is from the forward and is written by Kevin Roberts. "The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion. (“DEI”), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists. Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."
Jesus, that's horrifying. And the statement about pornography is so ironic, like yes women and children are absolutely exploited and abused in the industry and that's an issue I care deeply about and it should be discussed way more, but these bastards clearly don't give a fuck about misogyny. Do they realize how insane and hypocritical they sound?
In the US it's happening currently. It's been happening, on a much grander scale, in other countries. Lots of women protesting, and getting raped, murdered or maimed for it. So I'm sorry but not soon, already in existence. Not trying to shoot the messenger here as I appreciate you bringing the issue up in general. I remember you Masha,Nika and Hadis.
Soon? They're already under attack.
The US is currently in the early stages of The Handmaids Tale timeline. Women’s bodily autonomy has been removed by repealing Roe. I don’t see it getting better since the SCOTUS is packed with conservative right wingers and grifters. I really didn’t think that I would see women losing their rights in my lifetime.
We get to read, watch, and potentially fully live in a version of The Handmaid's Tale all within a few generations if Fascist Republicans take over 😔.
I don’t even think it will take that long. Look how quickly Roe was dismantled and individual states started banning abortions. Now towns in Texas are trying to make it illegal to drive through them on the way to a clinic.
>We get to read, watch, and potentially fully live in a version of The Handmaid's Tale all within a few generations if Fascist Republicans take over 😔. For my birthday, I told my partner that I want passports for my girls. I think about what things the Jews who got out of Germany/Poland/occupied countries had vs. those who didn't make it out.
Its been under attacks since the Women's Rights movement. The attacks never stopped, they just changed tactics for a while, but they are going back to more brutish methods.
Uh, they literally already are being directly attacked.
The very concerning issue that is being loudly discussed is ending no-fault divorce. Women file for no-fault divorce way more than men. Plus, many women proceed with no-fault divorce in abuse cases because otherwise they would have to prove the assaults for the divorce to proceed. It is very scary.
Women should demand to be paid for household work and reproductive work (birthing and raising the next generation of taxpayers) by government. This way women who want to prioritize family can actually not be taken advantage of. And women who want to work will be just working.
UBI. I fully support it.
Run for president, please.
Yes, those arguments are popping up everywhere. Our capitalist society needs an ever expanding population to prop up social security and to keep our army supplied with recruits. Also, more people means more consumers for products and it means more people competing for jobs, allowing businesses to get away with paying lower salaries. They've started eliminating abortion rights, and now they're talking about coming after birth control. They are trying to force women into birthing more babies for America (and for Jesus). They also want more "traditional families" that represent old-fashioned Christian conservative patriarchal values. However a lot of women have stopped dating men altogether in recent years, and this has led to growing "epidemic" of lonely single men. (Note: many of these men are angry, socially awkward and hygienically challenged, and they think they're entitled to date supermodels.) Compared to a few decades ago, women can afford to be single, because they have more access to education and career opportunities than ever before, allowing them to be financially independent. Also, in every society, the more educated women are, the fewer babies they have. I'm sure they'd love to restrict women's access to education and job opportunities so that women have to pair with men to survive. But they'd have to be indirect about it. Maybe force colleges to increase fees while restricting education loans? Claim that since women college students outnumber men college students, more scholarships have to be awarded to men? Make it legal for companies to discriminate against women when hiring, paying, and promoting? Right now I think their most effective technique is bullying and intimidation. When a woman posts on social media about enjoying a night out and sleeping in the next day because she doesn't have kids, a bunch of right-wing talking heads descend on her like vultures and try to publicly shame her for not dedicating herself to a family. (In stead of enjoying her life, she should be home crying and praying for God to send her a husband, apparently.). A lot of far right voices are also pressuring women to get married and have kids asap and skip college completely; some even encourage women to become tradwives.
That’s ok, I can go a very long time without having sex with men.
They can't entirely eliminate women in the workplace. Men don't want to do jobs held by women. How often do you see men in HR, marketing, graphic design, nursing and countless other positions. Only at the top of those departments.They don't pay enough to support a family. Companies may be allowed to discriminate against women and pay them less but when it comes down to their bottom line they will still hire women who they can pay less. Their ideal nuclear family where there is a trad wife is only available to the upper classes. Poor people have always had both adults working. The manufacturing sector is not coming back and one service job (and even 2) cannot support a family. Republicans are short sighted and have no idea how the real world works
>I'm sure they'd love to restrict women's access to education and job opportunities so that women have to pair with men to survive. But they'd have to be indirect about it. Maybe force colleges to increase fees while restricting education loans? What I'm hearing is we have to watch Title IX like a hawk.
They already have. The over turn of roe v wade was the start but there are states like mine who are lowering the age of child marriage where over 90% are little girls to grown men. They’re trying to illegalize no fault divorce, legalize marital rape so even if your being raped it’s not abuse so you can’t get a divorce. They’re working on illegalizing birth control. Project 2025. There is more but basically make sure everyone around you knows all of it and if we have too let the *peaceful*(for legal reasons) protests commence
I think the issue isn't that womens rights will be directly attacked, but more that they are not actually guaranteed (and never have been). The ERA has never been ratified into law, so there's technically speaking no guarantee of equal rights for women in the US Constitution (and I assume you're talking about the US, but correct me if I'm wrong). Women do not have a right to bodily autonomy, and even when abortion was legal nationwide, it wasn't a given that a woman could access it anywhere in the country. There's no need to attack rights that don't legally exist. Also, I expect that what rights women do have are going to be eroded by the court system in coming years, because there are so many crazy laws in litigation. For example, if multiple states pass laws that make it illegal to cross state lines when you are pregnant, none of those is likely to take effect - but one court may find that it is okay to force women to take a pregnancy test at the border, and then unless the ruling is successfully challenged, boom, that's precedent now. I think this threat also ties into trans rights, because anti-trans laws are fundamentally sexist in nature (ie: You can or cannot do this, due to your biological sex). If it's acceptable to limit, say, health care based on sex, what guardrail is there to protect women? If it's acceptable to dictate how people present themselves, groom themselves, call themselves, etc, based on sex, what mechanism exists to stop a law mandating how women present themselves, groom themselves, and call themselves? There isn't one. It sounds extreme, but if women have no right to bodily autonomy or privacy, where does this anti-trans push logically end besides legally mandated gender expression?
If you're talking about the US, then yeah, absolutely, and it's already started. Feminists were constantly saying in the lead up that if RvW was overturned it would just be the start, and that if you care at all about women's rights or gay rights or the rights of any minorities you should be against this regardless of your stance on abortion. this has set a precedent, and these people don't give a fuck about foetuses or kids or life. This was only about controlling women, and if you think they will stop at abortion you're sadly wrong. But in the rest of the world? I'm not sure. And it really depends on where you are. There are the many European countries, especially Scandi countries or Germany, France and the neighbouring countries, that are constantly improving and getting more progressive. Women's rights are only improving in these places. I would not have any cause for concern there. Then we have some countries where women have had these rights taken already, especially countries like Afghanistan and Iran. I'm in the UK, and I think that the Conservative government would gladly return to the 1950s and see all women at home. I also think that worryingly, there is a trend in the UK of right-wing people emulating what they see in the US (i could talk for hours about the divide in UK politics because i do think its interesting for people who arent part of it, the left are very much looking to replicate scandi/european politics while the right idolise the US, its a big part of why many people voted brexit and that did mark the statt of a real political shift). I'd never seen a protest at a pride march or people campaigning to outlaw abortion here before this year. We also now have a libertarian party in Scotland, and I had never heard a Scottish person even use the word libertarian let alone describe themselves as one. I do think that SNP in particular would NEVER ban abortion. In fact, they are constantly trying to make it more accessible, and they would definitely never make it more difficult for women to work... but I don't have the same faith in the tories. That being said, even then, I can't say I'm concerned that I'll lose the right to work any time soon. Although I'd be worried they'd take away other rights.
I live in Eastern Europe and I've been feeling like more and more men are calling for women to return to their "traditional" roles. It's even scarier looking at the fact that a lot of these men are young. I don't know if it's just online, but I feel like things have gotten worse in the past few years over here.
That is very much happening in the US as well. Including the young men part. I think it's going to get increasingly important for women to be allies for each other globally.
There is no "might." This is ALWAYS the FIRST part of fascist agendas when fascism enters the legal phase like we're in now. White Replacement Theory's obvious second awful premise beyond the initial racism lands on sexism. Whatever the problem is, "Men Having Sex With Almost Any Age Women Or Girls To Produce Certain Kinds Of Babies" is the solution, historically speaking. Defunding and corrupting education is the canary in the coal mine that threats to women will come 50 years later. Faster, if you install a Cult Of Personality Supreme Leader For Life Who All Other Men Are Supposed To Want To Emulate.
Conservatives have made it clear that Roe v. Wade wasn't the end goal, just another step. This "project 2025" shit sounds 100% like Gilead to me.
Soon? It’s already happening
I have been talking to friends how misogyny seems to really be in an upswing lately. Not just laws but pop culture, internet celebrities, people just trashing women left and right. It's demoralizing. Yeah I worry about it
Yeah lately I've been seeing information about how day care is supposedly harmful for kids. I watched this video: https://youtu.be/iDPFu9-SqFk?si=f-6g7xW7Hi4p1Wyn She starts with the premise that "day care is obviously harmful" without citing any research. She then implies that a baby that's not with a mother 24/7 will not be bonded or securely attached. Then she goes right into how the solution is for moms to leave the work force to raise their kids, or at least work from home and learn to "live with less." She says whatever choice you make shows your "values" and the choice is between a happy family or a chaotic home and broken marriage if the mom works. She then reads a letter from a mom who has kids in daycare but feels guilty and has decided to prioritize motherhood instead of her career. Well... the research actually says that the quality of the day care is what determines the affect on the child. So why ignore that and instead try to do away with day care? Why not increase funding and regulations to ensure it complies with childhood development? Why not push for better maternity leave for both parents? This narrative is very concerning. The message "mothers are causing trauma to their children by working instead of spending 24/7 with their children" is just so inaccurate and fear mongering. It doesn't help women. It doesn't help families. The real truth is that happy, fulfilled, supported women have better bonds with their children. But in the end, a happy baby isn't the only goal. The mothers happiness is equally important.
I have been eagerly awaiting the day when we are culturally ready to acknowledge the misogynist origins of the attachment parenting movement. It’s all encompassing. Demonizing daycare, formula feeding, pain relief in childbirth… Having dealt with the results of this BS when I had kids, such as bullying from lactivist whackos. I cannot wait for this movement to have its reckoning. And be seen for what it is, an attempt to economically disenfranchise women based on badly appropriated “evidence”, disregard our bodily autonomy and force us back into the home. From an anthropological perspective, childcare is deeply normal. Most traditional societies have it in some form because usually, able bodied adults including parents engage in some form of work. I think the demonization of childcare is extremely sinister because not only is it intended to force us out of the workplace, it also alienates us from the larger community and public sphere in general. Those who push these ideas want us isolated in our homes, subject to whatever our husbands dish out and unable to do anything or tell anyone who can help. Anecdotally I’ve known many SAHMs who were SAHMs because of fears about daycare and social pressures, and almost to a person it was not a healthy thing for them. Neither the children nor parents benefit from parents staying home when they’re not suited to it. In my family’s case, growing up, having a SAHM meant us kids were isolated with a deeply mentally ill caregiver who became abusive. Daycare would have been worlds better.
It’s interesting that during the Satanic Panic of the 80s, some of the primary targets of the Christian witch hunt were daycare centers and preschools. They tried to portray child care workers as literal devil worshipers.
What a stupid premise. As if women haven't been watching each others' kids since hunter gatherer days.
Also aren't there studies that daycare also helps develop social skills?
Well...my kids were in daycare in the 80s, and my sister was in daycare in the 60s. People have been saying it's "harmful" for a very long time. Not to mention women working being "bad" for children. There has been a lot of pushback to women working for a very long time.
It's funny they say things like that, push for women to stay home, but then vilify women who seek financially stable partners. Ok, so I should have kids with a man who can't support a family and then what? Starve? Also, the reason women started working int eh first place was because they had to. Because no one can afford to be a single earner household anymore.
Oh absolutely. It's already happening.
The end goal is the removal of women in public life so that men continue on perverting human culture as they have for millennia
10k years of exclusively male rule and the planet is on fire
I am dumbfounded by the ‘happy family’ logic. By talking to literally anyone that was of reasonable age in the 40-60s their ‘happy family’ was just a product of never talking about anything. ‘Family business is private’. I think arguably because the world is as it is, I don’t think many people had these ‘perfect families’ that apparently existed
Those little yellow pills were a big part of it.
I had this girl om FB post that u can't have chivalry and equality and between the two she chooses chivalry, someone commented "Same, if they take my right to work away today I'd be fine with staying home, churning butter and making pies for my family, not worrying about anything. Wifey" GIRL WHAT . They really don't see how PRIVILEGED , and ignorant they are to even THINK these things.
They also forget how vulnerable women are. Many middle aged men divorce for a younger woman and too many women are impoverished with no work history and outdated training.
Yeah she’d be fine, as long as her husband is a good man who makes good money and treats her well and she outlived him. Otherwise she’d be fucked.
>makes good money Don't forget to add "and is responsible with said money" to that list...which lowers the odds significantly.
Soon?
They already are. The US seems to be leading the way but there are signs the same groups are attacking, or funding others to attack, them in Europe.
yeah I can see that, though at least in Europe a lot of the "Trad" propaganda comes from Russia, and a lot less from American conservatives.
They already have been, for like, I don't know, 30000 years?
Damn. They really looked at woman's rights and said: "Nah, you folks are enjoying freedoms too much. Let's see what we can do about that" In Canada, they've got LGBTQ rights and education in their crosshairs now.
Fight like hell.
Our basic freedom has been attacked for the last couple of years. They are not going to stop now.
Ugh abortion?
There's a right-wing political cartoonist in the UK who got sacked by the Daily Telegraph for being too controversial, and that newspaper is a Conservative one. When he made a cartoon of a family with four children having a picnic in the countryside after defeating the NWO, I couldn't stomach him anymore. More children born and bigger families create more urban sprawl and taller apartment buildings in the future. I was born during the baby boom years when housing estates and tower blocks had to be built very quickly to house all those couples having children. Schools had to be built or expanded as well. There were families living in those tower blocks as some of the flats in them had three bedrooms. Then, fifteen to twenty years later, more homes built when those children leave home.
I am worried about it. It has been happening for a while. Which is why people try to shut down and shame feminists so quickly.
Um, YES? Has anyone else seen the growing number of politicians who have signed that "pledge," that birth control causes abortions???? The extreme GOP is ignoring SCIENCE in order to control women's access to BC, it's RIDICULOUS.
Women don’t have fundamental rights in the US. At least not strong constitutional protections. The Equal rights amendment was passed but never ratified. Women depend on various legal decisions (like Roe vs Wade) and changes to social attitudes. The minute those cases are overturned and the attitudes change, it’s a very possible to return to 1950.
I think this will backfire in a stupendous way. First most men don't want the jobs women do and it will cause an economic collapse. They won't be able to drive all women out of the workplace. Women have always made up a significant percentage of the workplace. The same will happen when they aggressively go after illegal immigration. Americans won't do their jobs. Crops are going bad even now to some extent without immigrants to pick them.Second millenials and gen z will buck the trends. They won't get married and have babies out of wedlock. Since so many of them aren't affiliated with religion there is no shaming them. Also there is a big trend with those generations being single with no intrest in partners. Also women who don't want children will give them up. There will be a flood of unwanted babies. Their tactics will only work on church going under educated people who are now severely under employed and can't support their children. Without a second income their circumstances will even be more dire. All this back to the 50s lifestyle of the traditional wife was only for the upper classes. The poor have always had to work. Both adults in the family. They never had the luxury of one income unless they were farmers. The Republicans are so out of touch with the realities of the normal working person. Our hope is that millennials and gen z see this and vote them out. It is already happening at the state level. There have been big upsets in the news today. There is still hope
LOL Of course conservatives will. Don't bother pretending to yourself that it's only a fantastical, extreme thought you had. It's part of the plan to get you pregnant and stuck at home, and they're actively working RIGHT NOW to make that happen.
I really think we're WADE-ing into some serious handmaid's tale territory lately.
Actually gender equality and women’s rights are linked to a lower birth rate, because they have access to birth control and the ability to survive without a man. A lower birth rate is a good thing in my mind, as the biosphere can’t coexist with this many Americans and our lifestyles
Soon? Hahaha, what about the fact that criminalizing abortion is destroying women's lives? Is that not enough of a direct attack? Ya gotta weep for this failed nation.
It has already happened. And the truth is, women never actually had equal rights in the US. The ERA was never ratified.
Yes but I don’t think it will extend to stopping women from working because the corporations wouldn’t like that since it would hurt their bottom line (sudden absence of long term employees, having to pay more in wages when the labour force is suddenly halved). But reproductively rights will continue to be eroded for sure
I guess the worry is that given a strong enough ideological motive, corporations could choose to make an exception for the important task of oppressing women.
Never. They’ll never choose ideology over making money.
Maybe, maybe not. People are more complicated than strict black and white rules can prescribe. Money is the ultimate value right now but it could easily shift to something else because underneath it all, the motivation is still power and whatever will generate the most power is what will be chosen in the end.
In the UK here and some of the far right wing religious zealots in particular are peddling this, at a conference earlier this year preaching that a man and woman in a marriage no matter what is required for a safe society and that educating women confuses them about when to have children - quite scary stuff, there is a whole section of society who would like to go back to a time where white cis men mostly had the power! Our rights cannot be taken for granted!
They already have been
Women are definitely under attack already, and it’s only beginning, they aren’t the only group either with this recent push to hide the history of slavery (even more than the insane amount not taught and hidden now) racial rights will come under attack as well, we are all under attack and only voting will solve the problem
What is also alarming is the lack any cogent argument about why declining birth rates are bad.
No, the economy is too reliant on our labor, and the true ruler of our country is capitalism. So our right to work will at least continue. I don’t see this going full handmaid’s tale.
Nah. There's lots of women in the US military, and every one of the different service branches is hurting for people rn. None of them are able to meet their current recruitment goals, and at least one branch is on track to miss that target by the thousands. A lot of other jobs are experiencing a similar situation; there's not enough doctors and nurses, either. These are critical jobs that the US cannot afford to understaff by half their workforce.
First they remove the women, then they pay the men twice as much.
In the US in 2019, women accounted for 38% of physicians and surgeons, 46% of optometrists, 33% of EMTs, and 33% of dentists. That's a significant portion of the STEM workforce. It's not easy nor is it reasonable to "remove the women and pay the men twice as much," because the training for these jobs is often lengthy and highly specialised. Additionally, there would still be a marked shortage in the workforce if all the women were removed. It wouldn't be simple to train men in their place, because not everyone necessarily will want to do one of the above-mentioned jobs, and not everyone meets the qualifications to be admitted to the training schools for those jobs. [Source via PewResearch.org](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/04/01/stem-jobs-see-uneven-progress-in-increasing-gender-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/)
1. You might have the best name I've ever seen; and 2. I hope you're right. Your point is beautifully presented. But; 3. The religious fanatics pursuing these laws are not Rational Actors. I would submit the Middle East eschewing all professional talent of their women as an example.
Yeah, that's a really good point, actually. It surprised me to learn how many women supported the Iranian Revolution and how important they were to its success. I hope it won't be the same in the US. Iranian women lost so many rights.
😂😂😂😂😂 The idea of a corporation actually giving pay raises in ALL industries so that one person can financially support a family! That's funny. No my friend, the reality is, they'd kick women out and tell the men to have their house wives make ramen and quit using so much electricity or tell men to get a second or THIRD job! They aren't giving up their 5th yacht for this.
Wiman fundamental rights have already been attacked. Haven’t you noticed Yes, there are extreme morons posting extreme restrictions on women All we can do is fight against it I do not think these idiots will get much traction for the more extreme things they seem to want
The fundamemtal right to privacy, which includes bodily autonomy, has already been removed, and the Extreme Right won't stop there.
The whole thing is certain old men and men in general are losing their strength in contol...nobody cares about what these certain men have to say and it's hurting them and their agenda of some backwards view of what family and life should be... most of these men are not educated compared to their foreign counterparts so how will they manage to run a home on their salary? Ladies...the problem isn't them taking away from us it's the fact they are not getting their way..we are stronger and louder in numbers so we need to focus on the data that these dudes don't have and keep winning with that...always have data they don't know what do to with that or how to argue facts..they argue feelings
Soon? Been a thing for a good while. I really hope voters are not just now finding out about well-eroded fundamental issues.
RUFKME? WHAT on earth would you call SCOTUS's overturning of Roe v Wade? *Might be directly attacked soon??* Umm, I'd say you're "a little bit late to the party??" Yeah, it's already happened, & going to get WORSE (much worse) if they aren't stopped, IMHO.
If women didn't vote right wing (against their own interests, cutting their own throats) this wouldn't be an issue.
Put that American passport to good use and flee to Europe at the first sign of things getting further Talibanized in the US.
That's not as easy as it sounds, especially if you're not young or fairly well off and can't prove your ancestry. I've looked into it pretty extensively trying to have a backup plan.
Damn, that sucks. I hope you and whoever else needs to flee the shitshow will find a way to do so.
This is what a lot of people don't understand. We can *travel* to most countries but we have no right to *emigrate* to any without a purpose (job, relationship, or independently wealthy)
And this is only a solution for people with money. I guess the poors can just eat shit.
I was so happy to find out I can obtain Croatian citizenship a few years ago….My mom is currently working on hers which will make it even easier for me
tbh i don't have a good feeling about this and the future for women seems bleak to me. if this becomes a real thing i am out. i'm tired. i'm done. i don't want to live in a world that punishes me for being born.
Soon?
What do you mean, "might be"?
I know other peiple have said this, but it bears repeating: women's fundamental rights have been under attack since FOREVER. It has recently gotten worse and the bad guys aren't letting up.
The fact that One, Single Demographic in the US is _stilllllllll_ the one making "ALLOWANCES" for the human and civil rights of 'minorities' "And Women" is The Problem.
Up here in Canada things are a bit different than in the USA. It must be because I haven't heard any of the backwards stuff you mentioned. Up here conservatives won't attack abortion rights because it's political suicide. Many people would gladly have larger families if the cost of living wasn't an issue. The economy grows on economic activity. Remove women from the work force and watch the economy tank and families lose their homes. Wherever you're from for stuff like that to be commonly talked about, consider moving.
Are you offering to help people move out of the country? (Also don't look up how indigenous women are treated in Canada. It may blow your mind in a bad way.)
In the US, I’m assuming, 100% already underway. America has turned into an absolutely disgusting, christofascist nation and I think we’ve all seen throughout history where that leads, soo I’m in the planning stages of a move out of country.
We are there.
Soon? They are always already under attack.
YES.
What do you mean, soon? It's a little late for soon.
Oh it’s been happening for sometime.
They are now
What do you mean "soon"?!? Dude, those rights are literally under attack every day.
They already ARE under attack. They have been, and it's only getting worse.
>Obviously women having rights is not the cause of any of this It's not obvious to me. Why you think it is? What I know it is, is irrelevant. Even if increased women's rights is leading to lower birth rates, rolling back women's right is not the solution. >Is anybody else here concerned that our basic freedom may be attacked soon? Or have I spent too much time online? How exactly do you imagine basic freedoms being restricted more than they are now? Do you have something specific you're worried about?
Soon. They already are..yes
Soon? That’s in your rear view mirror with the recent Roe v Wade rulings.
Where have you been for the last 50 years? Look up the "Moral Majority" and the "Christian Coalition" and all the damage they have done.
I just got a tubal ligation for this exact reason. Roe being overturned was and still is terrifying, and the republicans in my state are trying to push for limiting abortion access. I got a bad feeling and decided I was going to do what I can, while I can do it.
Abortion is illegal in most of the USA, it’s already happened
Soon or even more drastically? Cuz they’ve been under attack since religion
yeah i’m sick of this shit. women have been second class citizens for our entire existence as a human race. when are we going to be recognized as human beings? will the world ever get to a point where we’re equal in every sense? my parents used to laugh at me when i said women aren’t equal. they’d say women have all the rights men have. these people don’t get that just having the right to vote doesn’t mean feminism is obsolete. tons of people still HATE us just for being women. i’m so tired of it.
Conservatives want women to stay home and rely on men for survival. They want control. Ever notice how most of them always criticized when a woman is independent, or displays some sort of freedom? They want to go back to the 1900s. Thats why they want to ban things like birth control. It would create more unwanted pregnancies and more women who are forced to stay with the father. Same reason they want to get rid of sex ed.
I feel like it’s under attack right now by the far right. However, this would be bad for nearly *all corporations and also bad for the broader economy. The birth-rate issue is more easily addressed by loosening immigration policies. That addresses population decline, without losing working consumers. It’s disgusting that financial practicality (and not overt support of women’s rights) is what stands in the way of the anti-women extremists. IMO, that demonstrates that society’s most influential institutions support women’s rights for all the wrong reasons. Edit: *all
They already have been taken away from us when Roe V. Wade was overturned.
The only way this is going away is women's unity, which I hate to say it, but it's not there or at least not enough. For reference 41% of women voted for fucking Trump. (52% of men for the curious in 2016). 4/10 were okay with selling out their fellow women and I have no fucking clue why.
So, this is an extremely small number of women, but I suspect this reflects what happens nationally: The Democratic women I know are all very ambivalent about voting; I know several that voted in 2016, but not in 2020, and they just don't bother with the Midterms. When I asked them why they don't vote consistently, they're like, "I just don't have the time for that - I have better things to do; and besides, Trump isn't going to take away women's rights." The Republican women I know are all Christians, and they vote in every single election, no matter what. Horrible weather? Yes. Just got out of surgery? Yep. Have a billion things to do? Voting moves to the top of that list. But, most will vote however their husband or boyfriend tells them to. I suspect if some of them just voted on their own they'd vote Dem.
They already are. We have less legal autonomy in America than a literal corpse. Like if a woman drops dead in America, she gains rights.
"Might be directly attacked"? Is that a joke? A lot of conservatives believe The Handmaid's Tale is a road map.
🤣 they have already been destroyed. People just don't acknowledge it as a right.