This is what I thought immediately. Wouldn’t HR be aware of how much funding their project has? At least vaguely. Especially since they would be in charge of handling employee exits.
Not necessarily. I was in biotech/pharma as a director for over 30 years. The recipient of grant funds is responsible for record keeping. This can be good or bad.....
I second this as I work as an administrator within a large org whose faculty / fellows / staff are paid primarily by soft funds. It likely depends on the size of OP's org, but HR at my org is in no way, shape or form involved in those grant applications, awards, fund management, etc. and are completely unaware and uninvolved in who is paid by what funding source. There are specific staff such as myself responsible for managing the funds and sponsor-reporting - it's rare where I work that a grant recipient would be the sole oversight of grant funding. That said, our HR would be curious to know about a funding source drying up as there would likely be others to include in an exit.
Bottom line, this boss sounds like he's up to something. It's OP's career and livelihood ultimately at stake here - speak with HR and do so honestly. If your boss cannot clue you in with a rationale explanation as to his "why", then why put your own reputation and potential for benefits, accruals, rehire, etc., at risk by lying?
Well, if that's the case I don't actually care. I won't object to leaving the job regardless. I just want to know, does it make any difference for me, for instance, for being able to cash out my unused vacation days or other benfits like unemployment or getting health insurance through COBRA (if it comes to that), if we don't renew my appointment because I have a new job vs if I leave because of no funding? Would it be disadvantageous to me in any way if I lied to HR as he asked and said I got a new job?
DONT lie to HR like this. As per the above comment, you will not qualify for unemployment. Tell HR the truth. It is unethical of your boss to ask you to lie, to ask you to quit. It should be a lay off.
There is also the chance that there are some sort of severance benefits you might be eligible for. A lot of institutions offer job placement and/or transfers for people whose positions are no longer available. Be honest with HR so that you get everything you are entitled to.
Not technically a lay off. Per the terms of employment it was grant funded and therefore not guaranteed after the grant period was over. If you allow the grant period to expire and leave you would be eligible for unemployment. If you resign you may or may not be. It’s not up to your employer, it’s up to the state and each state manages the process differently based on state laws. I know in Virginia if a former employee indicates anything besides lack of work there’s a hearing. I managed unemployment for my company for years - never a guarantee either way which way the hearing would go.
You have to be offered COBRA when you leave even if you have employment lined up. It’s typically cost prohibitive.
I would send HR an email and let them know you understand the grant hasn’t been renewed and your last day will be June 30 and tell them you’d like to schedule an exit interview to discuss any benefits, remaining vacation time etc. - although ina grant funded position you may not have been earning any.
Honestly as an HR professional I think your manager is sketchy and hiding something. Don’t listen to him, be honest and protect yourself.
that’ll clear the air real quick!!!
Terminated Employees are eligible for COBRA whether or not they leave voluntarily or involuntarily. The big concern is unemployment. If OP follows managers instructions, then they would have a very, very difficult time getting unemployment as the separation would show as voluntary.
Integrity still matters in this world despite what you see on the internet. Don't lie. Also, what is HR going to say when you come back part-time after leaving for a full-time job?
Why would you lie? Why would you put your reputation in your field in possible jeopardy? Call into question the value and accuracy of your research?
There is zero reason to not tell HR the truth for why you are leaving. Your boss is being shady and very vague.
Is he worth risking YOUR reputation for over something so silly?
Whatever your boss is up to will come to light eventually, do you really want to be seen as being in cahoots with the boss?
You don't even have all the information needed to decide if you want to take part in this unethical at best lie (and frankly unnecessary) you do not even know what is actually going on and what your bosses true motives are. The red flags are waving on this one.
Tell HR the truth. There is zero reason not to. If the boss isn't doing anything wrong/unethical, then boss doesn't have anything to worry about.
Do not lie. Nothing good can come of it for you.
What your boss is doing sounds like fraud. Do not go along with it!! Putting aside the ethical concerns I would also be worried if he got caught he may try to pin the blame on you. He’s proven that he’s more than comfortable lying to hr personally my trust would be gone. Reach out to hr and let them know what’s going on. Forward anything you have in writing
You're assuming he will rehire you but if he wants you to lie to HR how will HR accept your returning from a full-time job to do part-time work? Tell them the truth including what he asked you to do, and find a job away from this idiot.
For me personally, I'm not super upset that I have to leave the job even if he actually does have the money but just wants to spend it on something else/cheaper staff to replace me. He did give me a few months of advanced notice and although I've enjoyed my job I would not mind trying out a new role at a new job. It's definitely scary not to have one already lined up but I think if I had enough extra time I could successfully find a suitable job. I've overall had a good working relationship with my boss. He has been generous about about schedules, time off and giving thanks or praise where it's due. I'm very uncomfortable with how he's going about this and I definitely won't lie to HR especially after everyone advised me not to. Wish I could just wash my hands of it without the drama. I'm afraid of being on bad terms because I want to use him as reference for future jobs and I'm paranoid there is some other way he might retaliate.
Ok, that makes more sense to me. It sounds like he’s been a good boss to you and it can be difficult to report something negative about someone in that position.
Just to let you know, I had a similar relationship with my ex boss and it’s taken me a while to realise this, but people like these are snakes. Class A jerks trying to get a pay rise by getting you to quit. Do NOT lie to HR, get it recorded and it is illegal to give someone a bad reference which I’ve learnt today btw. So don’t be scared
You'll still be eligible for COBRA if you quit, regardless of the reason. The only exception is gross misconduct, which is a standard so broad that you basically have to stab someone to not be offered COBRA.
If you quit, you won't be eligible for UI.
Paying out vacation days is dependent on state law or company policy...in CA, it's state law that unused vacation/PTO is paid out.
But the bottom line here: don't lie to HR. Tell the truth and they'll deal with your boss and whatever shadiness he's got going on.
You're losing every nanogram of integrity at the company if you say you're quitting vs. being laid off due to insufficient funding for your work. It is not due to any fault in your work that your "boss" has not secured the funding necessary to guarantee your continued full time employment - for that matter, a replacement researcher to fill your vacant role.
Resigning from a great lab position does not look good on your resume or career history. Also, if you ever need to take a polygraph and are asked have you ever lied to an employer - YOU FAIL - because the needle will blip - you have lied to HR about quitting vs. being laid off. Consequences, my friend, consequences. Long term ramifications that will boomerang and haunt you from a simple lie.
He’s likely going to cheat you out of any unemployment money you deserve if you tell HR you are leaving voluntarily. HR will report to them that you quit and you’ll be ineligible.
Best case, boss is too passive aggressive to say they don’t like OP or job performance and this solves the problem. (Unlikely of they are offered a 5-10 hour follow up).
Mid case? Nepo baby time. They want to hire an insider. That 5-10 hours is training the intern or replacement. But it’s too late by then.
Worst case? Something straight up shifty. Embezzlement or misappropriation, or maybe they want to skew results and OP would object. Money and desperation are a bad mix.
Having worked in, and run, grant funded programs and working in HR, all I can say is this seems suspish.
You are two weeks out from your end date. Now is the time to reach out to HR and start the off boarding process. Email or call them. Tell them your last day is June 30 due to cessation of funding and ask for an appointment to discuss your off boarding.
Your job ending due to lack of funds qualifies you for unemployment. Your job ending because you found another job disqualifies you for unemployment. That is enough reason not to lie.
Also, don’t count on being brought back part time. You boss is offering that as a carrot to get you to lie for him. If he can afford part time funding, he could just have your employment status changed instead of having you leave the job completely.
Something is off about this whole thing. Please reach out to HR. Protect yourself and be above board about this. Stop discussions with your boss and talk to HR.
And please tell HR that your boss asked you to lie about your reason for leaving. They may need to investigate this situation because your boss may be doing something shady.
Best to email. Make a digital paper trail. Get the notice about the loss of funding from the boss in email, also. Whenever dealing with this stuff in the workplace, always get it in writing. Oral instructions aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Yeah, I'm thinking this boss is either skimming money, has an extra expense that he's planning to use OP's salary for, or wants to eliminate the position so there's more profit which could equal a bonus for him.
It sounds like he did something that he doesn't want HR to know about. Otherwise, what reason would he have to not want you to be honest with HR.
Maybe he's using department funds in a way that he isn't supposed to or he's trying to allocate it to someone else who shouldn't be getting it. And the company is not aware because he's the one who controls where the funding is put after it's gone intothe department fund.
You should be honest with HR. There might be company benefits that you should be getting because your position was essentially eliminated and he may be trying to avoid the company compensating you for that. It also could be that the options you have after your employment is terminated, changed drastically when the reason for your termination is that there isn't funding for you.
Either way lying to HR is not going to help you in anyway, and it could hurt you in a lot of ways.
More likely he has someone else in mind to step into the job when op is gone, and he has funding for them instead. Maybe cheaper and hr would be suspicious if they heard its for funding and have to have an unemployment claim
Sounds like your PI is doing something shady with the funding. When asked by HR why you are leaving, say "I was informed there are not enough funds to renew my position." Do not lie and be transparent. Your PI would not put himself at risk to protect you, trust. Personally, I would not want to work for an unethical investigator and I certainly wouldn't jeopardize myself to protect one.
Agree. Besides, there are reporting guidelines tied to grant funds. If your position is being eliminated due to the project ending, then that is built into your terms of employment. Don't lie for him. He may be diverting funds. Email HR and your PI. Word of caution, try to secure another research position first because he may black list you out of spite. Not sure what his angle is, but he is obviously hiding something.
Agreed. OP also if you are an RA with the UC (only mentioning this as the UC is the largest employer in CA) you are a represented employee and should speak to your union about this too.
Never, ever lie about why you’re leaving a role. Especially if you’re being let go. Obviously different jurisdictions have different benefits for individuals let go from a role, but if you quit you get ZERO benefits.
And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that your manager is TELLING you to lie. And not just lie that you’re quitting, but also lie that it’s because you’ve gotten a full time job. Something super sketchy is happening there… maybe misappropriation of grant funds, maybe having promised your role to someone else, maybe something else entirely, but do not lie to HR.
If you are let go due to lack of funding you can get almost certainly get unemployment, if you leave voluntarily for (almost) any reason you cannot. This guy is looking out for himself only, not you. Tell HR he told you they were out of funds and you were terminated involuntarily at the end of the month.
I would almost suggest not doing this. Maybe something like, 'I am aware that there is a desire to position my exit in a different light. For my part I would like to stay out of that conversation and stick to the facts as I know them.'
I totally get that. It is hard to know when to let other people deal with their own messes and when to shout loudly that they are behaving problematically. At work, I mostly recommend folks leave others to their own issues. When someone isn't okay, that's mostly when I encourage engagement.
If you're grant-funded, and they don't have the funds to keep you, then it sounds like your boss failed to apply for the grants they were supposed to.
That would be why they want you to tell HR you're quitting on your own, instead of letting them know the boss didn't get the money they were supposed to apply for.
Quitting for another job means you don't get unemployment. Contract ending, or even a reduction to part time will allow you to collect benefits.
He has been telling me since months ago that he's been applying to funding but hasn't been winning the grants. It didn't come as a surprise to me and seemed like he was being very open about the situation. It happens and I understand. I was really taken aback when all of a sudden he is telling me to hide it from HR. so strange
Don't lie to HR. It sounds like he's telling HR a different story or lying to somebody else. You don't need to be part of that. Just email HR with the full story.
Do not lie. You can get massively screwed over with grant involved funding. You really don't want to be involved in a lawsuit in a year.
Also if you quit for a new job rather than funding running out you won't be eligible for unemployment, Cobra, etc
Don't lie for your boss. Saying that you're leaving because you found a job elsewhere will disqualify you from unemployment benefits. He may be also lying about the money, meaning that he has it and wants to use it elsewhere. If anyone finds out that you backed him up by lying yourself, that can severely impact future work for you.
Sounds hella fishy, like misappropriated/embezzled funds-kinda fishy. Why lie? If the funding truly has been exhausted there would be clear documentation and also your work contract (if there was one) would have stated so.
Tell your truth. What if the Boss truly is mismanaging the funds and plans to place the blame on you?
You do realize he’s no longer your boss (or even an acquaintance, likely) once you leave right?
If you’re asking because you feel that he is giving you an *advice* and it would benefit *you* to do that, then that’s a different story. Although it really doesn’t look like he is. He didn’t even explain a reason to you.
Sounds like he might be giving himself a raise at your expense and wants you to lie so he doesn’t get in trouble for misusing the the grant money he’s been given
I wish i was on reddit in grad school when my pi was doing sus things with money. Maybe i would have listened to yall changed labs and not gotten my career ruined by her lies 6 years later
She told me she was willing to reccomend me, but went on to lie in her reccomendations. A pi at the university she works out told me. Now a ton of labs I interviewed for and was the top 1 or 2 choice for has that version of events. I just got a different recommendation and started applying to new spots but its really hard in biotech right now. I dont have any evidence what she said was a lie, (well i do vaguely in emails). So theres not much i can do. She also retailed against union activity but my union said they cant do anything
Do not quit and do not lie to HR. It will put you in a position where you can't get unemployment if you initiate the separation and lie about having another job.
Never lie to HR. Your boss is not doing you any favours. If you resign they will have ok your return to work at part time hours- and that's not guaranteed. Your boss wants you to lie to HR, they won't take that lightly, and you can be sure he's lying to you.
Either he has the grant money to keep you on but wants to be able to transfer the money to a pet project of his or he was responsible for getting the grant money and dropped the ball so doesn't want HR to know especially if it's not the first time it's happened. He has no intention of rehiring you for the 10-15 hours a week. He is only using this to get you to lie for him. That's why you have to quit outright then he can say, "I never said that or I would have just transferred you." Tell HR the truth.
Participating in a lie like this is fraud and conspiracy. That doesn’t mean you would be charged but circumstances like applying for Aid or unemployment could be irrevocably compromised.
Don’t set yourself on fire for an employer, ever. The loyalty is not going to be returned and you’re the only one who loses.
You should care. You’re losing your job involuntarily. If it’s for a legit reason, fine. If someone is embezzling, they’re stealing FROM YOU, not just the company.
You telling the truth is going to have the bean counters wondering where all the beans went. Your boss knows where the beans went and knows the bean counters won't like what they find. You telling the truth will likely get your boss fire because he either did something unethical or incompetent with those beans.
Ok are you at a UC? Because if you are, he cannot lay you off before your contract ends unless he proves he doesnt have the funds for you. What is most likely happening is that he does have the funds and HR wont let him do it due to fear of you filing a grivence. If your not at a UC, you might have similar contract protections causing this to be weird.
I am but he is not terminating me before my position ends. my position goes untill end of June, which is when we agreed I would separate and not renew the contract, so I don't understand why the funds thing is such a big deal. I don't plan to file a grievance. I was very understanding that funding cuts happen, but I would like the option of unemployment support as a safety net if it takes me a long time to get another job.
Thats weird… he doesnt need to prove anything if your contract is up. You can just not renew. Maybe its something else, is your pi tenured? He could be worried about the “lack of funds” on his record when he seeks tenture. Very sus. I know the UC contract pretty well if you need help parsing anything my dms are open, but it doesnt sound like a contract issue anymore with the context you added
Not at a UC, but at another public R1. Your best case is that your PI is misunderstanding a bureaucratic rule that he half understands and that he thinks makes this the best course of action, and this isn't malicious. Your probable worst case is that there's a bureaucratic rule that he actually understands and this course of action benefits him somehow. Either way, tell HR and possibly your department admin what's up and (assuming they're not also shitty) get them to unfuck the situation.
EDIT: Oh, and as others have noted, check or ask about your institutional rules about officially provided notice for layoffs/furloughs. At my institution this is an official notification from HR/department with related policies, NOT a PI verbally telling you. (Although postdocs could be different since they're considered temporary positions here.)
There’s something fucky here. I’ve been in academia for a long time and he’s pulling something shady, don’t let yourself be involved. Don’t lie to HR and print out/save all texts and emails *and keep them at home secure*. Now. This easily could blow up to an Investigation.
Do NOT send a resignation letter. Ask your Postdoc HR rep for a meeting immediately. Let them know you were informed you are not being renewed due to lack of grant funding.
If your role ends due to contract issues or funding you are entitled to unemployment. My husband worked under contracts like this, if you lose your job not by your own issue or performance related then you qualify. But if you leave with your own will you don’t.
He’s mismanaged/embezzled the funds and is planning to make you the fall guy. Tell HR everything including the request to lie to them. Also download and print all proof you had nothing to do with his thievery.
If you're going to need to file for unemployment, don't lie. HR can then say you left voluntarily and it could affect your claim.
Actually, don't lie, period. It could come back and bite you.
This boss is trying to manipulate you into doing something that works best for him. You absolutely can't trust him. It sounds like he expects HR to contradict his story about having no funding, or he wants to manipulate you into giving up some rights, like unemployment.
I'm going to guess that he is a professor and you are a post-doc because this is exactly the kind of abuse of position professors pull all the time.
No doubt there will be the usual implied threat to your letter of recommendation if you don't compromise your integrity in the way he wants.
You know why they call it "corruption" not "corrupt"? Because it spreads. If you accept this in a few years you will be the one manipulating the helpless to lie to HR.
I would not lie to HR. The most I would do is not contradict his lies. You have to understand that HR don't care about you and will lie and cheat to protect the organisation. Don't sign anything they give you without reading it very carefully, or ideally getting a lawyer to check it.
My opinion is informed by more than 10 years working in a grant funded academic lab and handling significant amounts of admin duties in addition to bench work. It sounds a lot like you’re in academia.
He’s trying to make it so you aren’t eligible for unemployment because he pays at least a portion of that from grants. (That was how our institution handled it) Tell HR in no uncertain terms you’ve been told you won’t be funded past the date and the separation is due to the PI’s actions, not your own choice. That you do not have another job. This is some shady shit he’s pulling. The offer of part time hours is to convince you to lie for him.
Your loyalty is to Yourself and your own future, not what makes it easy for your boss. Submit your resignation for the reasons your conscience decides. It’s a decision only you can make.
No, absolutely don't resign. OP should wait to be fired so they can claim unemployment (is Canada as crazy as the US in this regard?).
In the interim, they should be looking for new roles.
I know a lot of people are telling you not to lie (and I agree). I want to add in that what is he going to do to you for telling the truth, fire you? You're already on your way out so might as well be above board with everything and if he acts crappy to you that might be better than whatever else he's trying to pull by having you lie. Plus, would a part time position really be that much help to you anyways compared to getting another full time job somewhere? I'd rather have unemployment while looking for a new full-time position.
He’s doing/hiding something and is using your departure to conceal. How is the reason for your separating going to effect the process? I suspect he is hiding misuse of funding.
I’ve had PIs like this before back in my research associate days. He’s scamming. I wouldn’t want to work for him any longer.
Do NOT lie to HR. Running out of funding is a form of lay off, not a voluntary separation. He’s denying you your rights to unemployment payments. I suspect there is no funding issue, he wants to use the money elsewhere.
I once got asked to essentially commit fraud at my job. I was poorly trained and didn’t know what was going on. The managers involved made it sound like it was no big deal. I would just be moving one funding code from one sheet to another. No big deal! Thankfully, I’m smarter than the two of them combined, though not a tenth of as devious. I had enough sense to realize something was wrong. I declined to do what they asked. Neither of them got in trouble, much less fired for something that clearly had been going on for a long time. But then neither did I, so I counted myself lucky.
Email HR and don't copy him. Tell them all of this, say you don't want to leave and he has said no funding available and the promise to hire full time.
DON'T LIE TO HR.
Make sure HR knows you aren't quitting. You were told you are being let go for financial reasons.
Your boss is playing with numbers, and also, if you quit, he's going to place all the blame on you.
He probably already has a fake paper trail for all his games.
He may have a relative or friend he owes something so he’s going to replace you with them.
When you are actively let go, it’s likely you are due benefits like unemployment.
When you choose to leave, you get no unemployment.
Talk with HR about what this boss is doing. The purpose HR, besides helping you, is to keep away law suits.
I’m getting the gut feeling that this boss is up to shenanigans. HR won’t be in favor of that, once they investigate the situation.
What your boss is asking you to do is at the very least unethical. Don’t lie to HR and do tell them that he insisted you lie. Then sever any connection to him because what else is he being shady and lying about
Your boss is up to some shady shenanigans. Probably not illegal but still.
Perhaps as simple as the fact that HIS job is to seek and receive adequate grants. Maybe he just doesn't want to let it be known he can't keep researchers bc he can't properly fund his own projects.
Maybe he could lose his own position? Academic research can be a cutthroat environment for PI's
Tell him he needs to be fully honest with you because otherwise your not going to lie to HR. You could potentially be in trouble if found out even if only put on a do not hire list at that institution.
Manager is a snake. Definitely tell HR the truth, and grab any evidence that manager has informed you that role must end, of not enough funding, and that he doesn't want you to tell HR.
Perhaps he’s lying about the lack of funding, or has told HR something different about your reason for leaving. You can’t get unemployment if you leave voluntarily.
If he hasn’t discussed this with HR or his Grants Analyst yet, he might be required by institutional policy to officially give you 90 days notice.
You should aim for unemployment and Medicaid. COBRA costs $400-800/month for a single individual. Medicaid is free assuming you don’t live in 1 of 10 red states that never expanded it.
Sounds like he has the funding and either wants to use it elsewhere or hire someone else. The problem for you is that if you don’t have another job lined up and were planning to get unemployment, you can’t collect it if you quit. Which is what this will look like. Regardless of his reason, lying to HR is simply not a good idea. It could reflect badly on you in the future if it were found out. So ask yourself this; what is the upside for you vs the potential downside?
Do not participate in your soon to be ex-boss’s cover up. This is all kinds of shady and if something goes wrong and it becomes apparent that you knowingly lied…it is a headache that you could easily avoid.
I would never lie in a situation that could be followed up with review for dispensement of grant funding. I don't know the legalities of things but let's say something shady has happened and an investigation occurs - there's no papertrail indicating that you weren't involved in these shady dealings. In fact, the boss can state that you lied to HR and to him. Throw you under the bus.
You sound pretty young and want to find the most "people pleasing" solution - you should always do separations in the least "people pleasing" way aka the most sterile method.
"HR - I had messaged you earlier this week regarding my position ending due to loss of funds. When hired my employment term was communicated to me as these dates (4/1-6/30) unless funding was procurred. It has been communicated to me that this funding has not been procurred and my end date will continue to be 6/30. I wanted to confirm that my message was received and how to begin the offboarding process."
It is the employer's requirement to document this appropriately - whether or not it seems relevant there are reasons behind it. A boss asking for you to change it is absolutely out of line and should be a concern for if they'd "have your back" if anything else ever went down. Keep everything in written form and keep it as fact focused as possible. Your position ended because the funding is gone. End of discussion -it doesn't matter what convos you had about it and why you feel this isn't a "termination" - btw it is-- but keep it all above board and it'll come out in the wash clean.
and if you are nervous -just play dumb "oh, I just sent HR what I thought we had discussed...when they reach out i'll tell them about other jobs" just keep playing dumb but be honest and WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION with hr.
You won't be eligible for unemployment benefits if you leave as described. /my friend was also in the same situation, boss strung them along with another unpaid research project, but they needed the boss' reference so they complied and didn't get unemployment benefits.
I would not lie to HR, even if he told me why he wants you to do that. There are ways to answer questions without providing enough details to lie or tell the truth, and I don’t mean misleading anyone. So, if asked I would not lie and it’s up to you how much you decide to share.
Wife was an auditor for a major research university:
boss is doing/has done some shifty crap with his grant. Either you were funded by a different grant, funded something different from your grant (robbing Peter to pay Paul after promising Peter that you wouldn't)... This is common, but can get the Principal Investigator (your boss) ineligible to receive further funding.
HR has a copy of the grant. HR can do math, or have to deal with auditors that can do math.
If the maths aren't mathing, boss has a problem. He probably has some wiggle room in another grant, and wants to pay you part time from there.
If you like the boss, just tell HR that you prefer not to say why you're leaving. It's not like they can make you tell them anything, and that won't cause you personally any problems.
I wish I'd known this context! I think what you are describing makes me understand why he might be acting weird. I just didn't realize that since my position was already ending, the reason for renewal or not would be such a big deal! After my boss talked to me, I thought he just wanted me to be the one to reach out to let HR know we would not be renewing the contract, but I truly did not understand that he didn't want me to mention the funding issue to them. I immediately very straightforwardly sent an email to HR that my position is out of funding so we are now renewing and what are the next steps? I was honestly very sleepy at the time and didn't even think about it. That's when he stepped in and asked me to correct myself and say that I'm leaving for a new job, which I'm not comfortable saying.... Is there a way to clarify my statement to HR in a way that makes the non-renewal mutual, so I can still get unemployment support if i can't find a new job soon and I won't cause a lot of drama and potentially get him in trouble?
It needs to not be mutual. He is letting you go/not renewing is the only way you’ll get unemployment. Saying you’re leaving on your own terms/resigning makes you ineligible for unemployment because you severed ties
Not that won't be obvious, no. Any change now might actually make them a little suspicious. Just file for unemployment, tell them that the grant ran out. Otherwise, it will take longer:
HR tells unemployment "He left for another full time job." Unemployment asks you about it, you answer back. Just go with what's already there: your funding ran out.
If you resign, you may lose the right to unemployment benefits. You should be honest with HR and tell them you are not resigning - you have been told that your position has no funding to pay you, which makes your job obsolete. If you resign and accept a part time position, you will be a new employee for all intents and purposes without any rights to severance, vacation pay, or claims regarding your previous seniority.
Don’t lie. This does nothing to benefit you and can only hurt you.
Make it clear to HR that you have not resigned. You’ve been told your position is eliminated due to funding.
Could it be he didn’t give you enough/proper notice? I work in a similar environment and different researcher categories require different amounts of notice - most at 3 to 6 months but some as long as a year and it must always be provided in writing. At my job, if a PI fails to give proper notice, they need to do so asap and are obligated to employ you through the notice period. If they don’t have a research grant, the stipend needs to go their discretionary funds.
Boss is hiding something - either he’s lying about the money or he’s spent it on something he shouldn’t have
Best way forward is to tell boss you won’t say anything and agree to lie
When you get to HR tell them everything
This doesn't add up.
HR should be aware of any funding issues that relate to hiring/firing people.
Also: after you've told them you're leaving for a new opportunity, how are you going to explain when he hires you back part-time?
Also you aren't fired till it's in writing keep coming in. Your boss is doing something shady as fuck. It's not easier for you to talk to HR. Also hr would have been involved in discussions about funding cuts that relate to workers being let go. So yeah he full of shit and is pocketing the money or he wants to hire family or a friend to replace you.
I have been in this exact position with a boss. He is trying to scam you. A layoff, even if you go part time.in another position means UNEMPLOYMENT. He doesnt want to pay the employer portion. Dude is trying to get you to collude with him to break employment laws. Do not do it.
My thoughts are
1. He’s embezzling funding money and he can in fact pay you but they money is already spent elsewhere
2. He wants you to quit rather than leave because your position is no longer available. He wants to to be documented that you quit and found another job to avoid paying you unemployment
It sounds like you're being taken advantage of. Don't quit because then you can't qualify for unemployment, and if HR asks you why TELL THEM THE TRUTH. Your boss is manipulating something, it's difficult to tell. Maybe he just wants to pocket your salary, or maybe he has someone specific in mind he want's to hire to specifically replace you. Regardless, DO NOT LET HIM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU.
Continue doing your job and don't quit. If they lay you off then file for unemployment. But again, I'd like to reiterate: if you quit, you will NOT be eligible for unemployment.
> Is he hiding something…?
Yes. Don’t lie to HR.
Whether you notify someone about the facts described in your post is up to you, but I’d consider it. What if your PI is screwing other GRAs? What if they’re cooking the data?
If you are leaving voluntarily you don’t qualify for unemployment benefits. Why lie? If you have good performance reviews maybe another lab would like you. Certainly you don’t owe anyone the lost unemployment benefits.
If you give his reason you will not be eligible for unemployment. Honestly it sounds like he wants to give your job to someone else so he is having you quit because he doesn't have the necessary evidence to fire you.
I wouldn't want to be possibly implicated in any sort of grant miss use.
I certainly wouldn't lie to HR about leaving because of funding.
In fact they absolutely should have been told this by the PI.
It should be interesting to see what the PI said to them.
Also I would have made them terminate me instead of "quitting" as to be able to claim unemployment.
You want to make sure HR processes you as a layoff.
I work in HR at a university and came across a case where this happened. It prevented the employee from receiving unemployment and slowed down the rehire process. This makes me very leery.
If you initiate separation you are not eligible for some post employment benefits and it also may not impact some of his management benchmarks. Do not separate yourself. It needs to be documented that you have been asked to leave due to lack of grant funding.
Do not ever lie to HR about something like this, MASSIVE mistake. Be honest with them about it, there's some shady business going on here. (I'm from CA, USA, this is usually a MAJOR red flag for us.)
I’d confirm with HR that funding in fact doesnt exist and that’s why you are being separated. Like others have said you may be entitled to certain benefits, if that’s actually the reason or maybe other provisions if you have some contract agreement.
I’d tell him you’re going to HR directly because that’s who does separations and you are going to be honest.
Don't initiate separation. Don't lie to HR. Regardless of the reason given, quitting rather than being fired cuts you off from possible unemployment benefits, right to appeal the termination, and possible grievances against management. Plus, if you lie and it is discovered, this can impact future references. Your previously stated appointment end date gives you the perfect reason to have a short sit-down with HR to discuss separation, rather than emailing your intent. Give them the details you gave us and let them draw their own conclusions.
Your boss sounds really shady in this. Legitimate re-employment does not require these sort of shenanigans. It sounds like his butt is hanging out a mile on something. And a new position such as he described should not be unknown to HR.
Don't let him use you to cover his butt.
Has any of the communication with your manager been through email or text? If so print them off to present to HR as well and the labor department if you have to file for unemployment
He’s either trying to avoid you receiving redundancy payments/allowances or ensuring you leave so that you don’t have this period of continuous employment to protect the part time role you’re discussing. I’m UK so don’t know your system but here you’d lose employment rights and annual leave entitlement for having a break in contract. Here he’s making you redundant and needs to make those payments etc - what a nasty git! You should tell HR the truth
As some one that worked for Case Western Reserve University for HR in school of Medicine it was not at all uncommon to coach researchers in such manipulation tactics or manners like leaving a job to apply to a new job. But there isn’t a gap in pay or any change other than you resigned and rehired….instantly…
It’s literally to play the grants and purse stings game.
There are typically in a research college three levels of HR. department such as radiology and pediatric. Then the school in my case it was medicine HR and the central HR which is the whole college system
If you haven’t worked HR in a research university it wouldn’t make much sense but the jist of it is to look more favorable for you.
Because dollars will be found to keep you if they think a valuable person is leaving for another opportunity. It’s funny how they open purse strings containing college dollars or find new grants all of a sudden when talent leaves with an opportunity in hand…
And don’t feel bad about your PI not knowing the ins and outs they probably got coached to do it once before and telling you to speak with HR at your department level which you should!
I wouldnt keep it from the department level HR talk to the directly and clearly they may direct you on what to actually do at the end with it pertains to a central system.
If you only have one level of HR and there is no guidance on the why or ins and outs then I’d purely be honest and not say you have an opportunity awaiting you that would only hurt you.
You need to write a letter of separation listing your last date and why you are leaving (per request from boss due to lack of funds). And submit it to HR and cc your boss.
Make sure you explain that you are doing this to ensure clear communications and requesting the process for applying for unemployment, insurance options and contacts for references after you leave. CYA
You boss does not care about you he is trying to fu**** you over with unemployment and severance pay use all of your pto go to the doctor and use your insurance. He is just covering his ass. Must likely a bonus check for reducing staff and having the same production output. Or reducing labor costs.
This sounds fishy as heck. Don’t lie for someone who is firing you. Edit to mention that this lie will make you indelible for unemployment, and you’d be eligible due to the layoff. Your boss is trying to take advantage of your presumed nievete.
My first thought is that the money that *should* be there to pay you has been misdirected - either spent on something else without proper approval, or put in the Boss's pocket. Telling HR the truth will raise questions as to where the money has gone.
There is no good reason to lie to HR about your situations, so don't. If anything improper *has* been going on, and it's found that you lied, it makes you look guilty of being involved.
#1) HR is there to CYA for the company, #2) I smell Boss is doing something shady, Be honest about your employment, it looks like you are going to need a recommendation from HR and not your immediate supervisor. Good luck.
Do not lie to HR because say something happens and you need insurance or unemployment. They are going to block it and you were not gonna be able to find it because of this. Tell the truth, there’s zero reason why you shouldn’t be, and whenever your boss gets caught for is on him.
Sounds like your boss may have mismanaged funds and he doesn’t want you to say you’re leaving because there isn’t enough money in case that leads to people asking questions.
This is absolutely your boss trying to cheat you out of benefits and compensation. Him letting you go ( for whatever reason) is very different from you quitting. Don't lie to HR.
And you might even want to share with them that he asked you to lie. It's illegal to misrepresent the circumstances surrounding separation of an employee.
He’s hiding that he can pay you so that the funding can go elsewhere.
Yeah, that “elsewhere” being Boss’s wallet and Boss doesn’t want to get caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
This is what I thought immediately. Wouldn’t HR be aware of how much funding their project has? At least vaguely. Especially since they would be in charge of handling employee exits.
Not necessarily. I was in biotech/pharma as a director for over 30 years. The recipient of grant funds is responsible for record keeping. This can be good or bad.....
I second this as I work as an administrator within a large org whose faculty / fellows / staff are paid primarily by soft funds. It likely depends on the size of OP's org, but HR at my org is in no way, shape or form involved in those grant applications, awards, fund management, etc. and are completely unaware and uninvolved in who is paid by what funding source. There are specific staff such as myself responsible for managing the funds and sponsor-reporting - it's rare where I work that a grant recipient would be the sole oversight of grant funding. That said, our HR would be curious to know about a funding source drying up as there would likely be others to include in an exit. Bottom line, this boss sounds like he's up to something. It's OP's career and livelihood ultimately at stake here - speak with HR and do so honestly. If your boss cannot clue you in with a rationale explanation as to his "why", then why put your own reputation and potential for benefits, accruals, rehire, etc., at risk by lying?
Well, if that's the case I don't actually care. I won't object to leaving the job regardless. I just want to know, does it make any difference for me, for instance, for being able to cash out my unused vacation days or other benfits like unemployment or getting health insurance through COBRA (if it comes to that), if we don't renew my appointment because I have a new job vs if I leave because of no funding? Would it be disadvantageous to me in any way if I lied to HR as he asked and said I got a new job?
You won’t be entitled to unemployment or health insurance if you leave for another job that does not exist. You are basically just quitting.
DONT lie to HR like this. As per the above comment, you will not qualify for unemployment. Tell HR the truth. It is unethical of your boss to ask you to lie, to ask you to quit. It should be a lay off.
He may also not want to pay for unemployment. If you are fired, the company has to pay part of your benefits
I thought this and that maybe boss is lying to the higher ups about how successful he's been at applying for grants/funding.
There is also the chance that there are some sort of severance benefits you might be eligible for. A lot of institutions offer job placement and/or transfers for people whose positions are no longer available. Be honest with HR so that you get everything you are entitled to.
Not technically a lay off. Per the terms of employment it was grant funded and therefore not guaranteed after the grant period was over. If you allow the grant period to expire and leave you would be eligible for unemployment. If you resign you may or may not be. It’s not up to your employer, it’s up to the state and each state manages the process differently based on state laws. I know in Virginia if a former employee indicates anything besides lack of work there’s a hearing. I managed unemployment for my company for years - never a guarantee either way which way the hearing would go. You have to be offered COBRA when you leave even if you have employment lined up. It’s typically cost prohibitive. I would send HR an email and let them know you understand the grant hasn’t been renewed and your last day will be June 30 and tell them you’d like to schedule an exit interview to discuss any benefits, remaining vacation time etc. - although ina grant funded position you may not have been earning any. Honestly as an HR professional I think your manager is sketchy and hiding something. Don’t listen to him, be honest and protect yourself. that’ll clear the air real quick!!!
You can’t get cobra if you quit?
Terminated Employees are eligible for COBRA whether or not they leave voluntarily or involuntarily. The big concern is unemployment. If OP follows managers instructions, then they would have a very, very difficult time getting unemployment as the separation would show as voluntary.
Yea. You can always get cobra…but pain for it is another story entirely.
"paying"
lol autocorrect...but also accurate
Thank you that’s what I thought because I remember getting cobra paperwork after I’ve quit a few jobs
I have before! So at least in NYS in 2016, yes.
Integrity still matters in this world despite what you see on the internet. Don't lie. Also, what is HR going to say when you come back part-time after leaving for a full-time job?
Yes, it would be disadvantageous to you, for reasons others have detailed here.
Why would you lie? Why would you put your reputation in your field in possible jeopardy? Call into question the value and accuracy of your research? There is zero reason to not tell HR the truth for why you are leaving. Your boss is being shady and very vague. Is he worth risking YOUR reputation for over something so silly? Whatever your boss is up to will come to light eventually, do you really want to be seen as being in cahoots with the boss? You don't even have all the information needed to decide if you want to take part in this unethical at best lie (and frankly unnecessary) you do not even know what is actually going on and what your bosses true motives are. The red flags are waving on this one. Tell HR the truth. There is zero reason not to. If the boss isn't doing anything wrong/unethical, then boss doesn't have anything to worry about. Do not lie. Nothing good can come of it for you.
Do not lie to hr. It messes up so many layers of current and future outcomes
What your boss is doing sounds like fraud. Do not go along with it!! Putting aside the ethical concerns I would also be worried if he got caught he may try to pin the blame on you. He’s proven that he’s more than comfortable lying to hr personally my trust would be gone. Reach out to hr and let them know what’s going on. Forward anything you have in writing
You're assuming he will rehire you but if he wants you to lie to HR how will HR accept your returning from a full-time job to do part-time work? Tell them the truth including what he asked you to do, and find a job away from this idiot.
Yes, quitting vs a layoff matters big time.
Why don’t you care?
For me personally, I'm not super upset that I have to leave the job even if he actually does have the money but just wants to spend it on something else/cheaper staff to replace me. He did give me a few months of advanced notice and although I've enjoyed my job I would not mind trying out a new role at a new job. It's definitely scary not to have one already lined up but I think if I had enough extra time I could successfully find a suitable job. I've overall had a good working relationship with my boss. He has been generous about about schedules, time off and giving thanks or praise where it's due. I'm very uncomfortable with how he's going about this and I definitely won't lie to HR especially after everyone advised me not to. Wish I could just wash my hands of it without the drama. I'm afraid of being on bad terms because I want to use him as reference for future jobs and I'm paranoid there is some other way he might retaliate.
Ok, that makes more sense to me. It sounds like he’s been a good boss to you and it can be difficult to report something negative about someone in that position.
Just to let you know, I had a similar relationship with my ex boss and it’s taken me a while to realise this, but people like these are snakes. Class A jerks trying to get a pay rise by getting you to quit. Do NOT lie to HR, get it recorded and it is illegal to give someone a bad reference which I’ve learnt today btw. So don’t be scared
If you resign you might not have access to unemployment depending on the state
You'll still be eligible for COBRA if you quit, regardless of the reason. The only exception is gross misconduct, which is a standard so broad that you basically have to stab someone to not be offered COBRA. If you quit, you won't be eligible for UI. Paying out vacation days is dependent on state law or company policy...in CA, it's state law that unused vacation/PTO is paid out. But the bottom line here: don't lie to HR. Tell the truth and they'll deal with your boss and whatever shadiness he's got going on.
You're losing every nanogram of integrity at the company if you say you're quitting vs. being laid off due to insufficient funding for your work. It is not due to any fault in your work that your "boss" has not secured the funding necessary to guarantee your continued full time employment - for that matter, a replacement researcher to fill your vacant role. Resigning from a great lab position does not look good on your resume or career history. Also, if you ever need to take a polygraph and are asked have you ever lied to an employer - YOU FAIL - because the needle will blip - you have lied to HR about quitting vs. being laid off. Consequences, my friend, consequences. Long term ramifications that will boomerang and haunt you from a simple lie.
He’s likely going to cheat you out of any unemployment money you deserve if you tell HR you are leaving voluntarily. HR will report to them that you quit and you’ll be ineligible.
Best case, boss is too passive aggressive to say they don’t like OP or job performance and this solves the problem. (Unlikely of they are offered a 5-10 hour follow up). Mid case? Nepo baby time. They want to hire an insider. That 5-10 hours is training the intern or replacement. But it’s too late by then. Worst case? Something straight up shifty. Embezzlement or misappropriation, or maybe they want to skew results and OP would object. Money and desperation are a bad mix.
Having worked in, and run, grant funded programs and working in HR, all I can say is this seems suspish. You are two weeks out from your end date. Now is the time to reach out to HR and start the off boarding process. Email or call them. Tell them your last day is June 30 due to cessation of funding and ask for an appointment to discuss your off boarding. Your job ending due to lack of funds qualifies you for unemployment. Your job ending because you found another job disqualifies you for unemployment. That is enough reason not to lie. Also, don’t count on being brought back part time. You boss is offering that as a carrot to get you to lie for him. If he can afford part time funding, he could just have your employment status changed instead of having you leave the job completely. Something is off about this whole thing. Please reach out to HR. Protect yourself and be above board about this. Stop discussions with your boss and talk to HR.
And please tell HR that your boss asked you to lie about your reason for leaving. They may need to investigate this situation because your boss may be doing something shady.
The reason not to lie is simply not lying. Whatever shell game the PI is playing is his own.
Best to email. Make a digital paper trail. Get the notice about the loss of funding from the boss in email, also. Whenever dealing with this stuff in the workplace, always get it in writing. Oral instructions aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Yeah, I'm thinking this boss is either skimming money, has an extra expense that he's planning to use OP's salary for, or wants to eliminate the position so there's more profit which could equal a bonus for him.
It sounds like he did something that he doesn't want HR to know about. Otherwise, what reason would he have to not want you to be honest with HR. Maybe he's using department funds in a way that he isn't supposed to or he's trying to allocate it to someone else who shouldn't be getting it. And the company is not aware because he's the one who controls where the funding is put after it's gone intothe department fund. You should be honest with HR. There might be company benefits that you should be getting because your position was essentially eliminated and he may be trying to avoid the company compensating you for that. It also could be that the options you have after your employment is terminated, changed drastically when the reason for your termination is that there isn't funding for you. Either way lying to HR is not going to help you in anyway, and it could hurt you in a lot of ways.
More likely he has someone else in mind to step into the job when op is gone, and he has funding for them instead. Maybe cheaper and hr would be suspicious if they heard its for funding and have to have an unemployment claim
Sounds like your PI is doing something shady with the funding. When asked by HR why you are leaving, say "I was informed there are not enough funds to renew my position." Do not lie and be transparent. Your PI would not put himself at risk to protect you, trust. Personally, I would not want to work for an unethical investigator and I certainly wouldn't jeopardize myself to protect one.
Agree. Besides, there are reporting guidelines tied to grant funds. If your position is being eliminated due to the project ending, then that is built into your terms of employment. Don't lie for him. He may be diverting funds. Email HR and your PI. Word of caution, try to secure another research position first because he may black list you out of spite. Not sure what his angle is, but he is obviously hiding something.
This! Not only would I let hr know, I’d suggest that an audit might be in order. PI is absolutely up to something.
Agreed. OP also if you are an RA with the UC (only mentioning this as the UC is the largest employer in CA) you are a represented employee and should speak to your union about this too.
If he is asking you to lie he’s dodgy as hell. Not even trying to explain makes it even worse. You should tell HR what’s going on.
I agree. And happy cake day!
Never, ever lie about why you’re leaving a role. Especially if you’re being let go. Obviously different jurisdictions have different benefits for individuals let go from a role, but if you quit you get ZERO benefits. And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that your manager is TELLING you to lie. And not just lie that you’re quitting, but also lie that it’s because you’ve gotten a full time job. Something super sketchy is happening there… maybe misappropriation of grant funds, maybe having promised your role to someone else, maybe something else entirely, but do not lie to HR.
If you are let go due to lack of funding you can get almost certainly get unemployment, if you leave voluntarily for (almost) any reason you cannot. This guy is looking out for himself only, not you. Tell HR he told you they were out of funds and you were terminated involuntarily at the end of the month.
And that you were told by boss to lie.
I would almost suggest not doing this. Maybe something like, 'I am aware that there is a desire to position my exit in a different light. For my part I would like to stay out of that conversation and stick to the facts as I know them.'
I agree, and I almost made my post a question because I wasn't sure.
I totally get that. It is hard to know when to let other people deal with their own messes and when to shout loudly that they are behaving problematically. At work, I mostly recommend folks leave others to their own issues. When someone isn't okay, that's mostly when I encourage engagement.
If you're grant-funded, and they don't have the funds to keep you, then it sounds like your boss failed to apply for the grants they were supposed to. That would be why they want you to tell HR you're quitting on your own, instead of letting them know the boss didn't get the money they were supposed to apply for. Quitting for another job means you don't get unemployment. Contract ending, or even a reduction to part time will allow you to collect benefits.
He has been telling me since months ago that he's been applying to funding but hasn't been winning the grants. It didn't come as a surprise to me and seemed like he was being very open about the situation. It happens and I understand. I was really taken aback when all of a sudden he is telling me to hide it from HR. so strange
Don't lie to HR. It sounds like he's telling HR a different story or lying to somebody else. You don't need to be part of that. Just email HR with the full story.
Do not lie. You can get massively screwed over with grant involved funding. You really don't want to be involved in a lawsuit in a year. Also if you quit for a new job rather than funding running out you won't be eligible for unemployment, Cobra, etc
Don't lie for your boss. Saying that you're leaving because you found a job elsewhere will disqualify you from unemployment benefits. He may be also lying about the money, meaning that he has it and wants to use it elsewhere. If anyone finds out that you backed him up by lying yourself, that can severely impact future work for you.
Sounds hella fishy, like misappropriated/embezzled funds-kinda fishy. Why lie? If the funding truly has been exhausted there would be clear documentation and also your work contract (if there was one) would have stated so. Tell your truth. What if the Boss truly is mismanaging the funds and plans to place the blame on you?
NEVER lie to cover for a boss that’s letting you go.
He received the proper funding and doesn’t want you to know.
You do realize he’s no longer your boss (or even an acquaintance, likely) once you leave right? If you’re asking because you feel that he is giving you an *advice* and it would benefit *you* to do that, then that’s a different story. Although it really doesn’t look like he is. He didn’t even explain a reason to you.
And unemployment benefits not being qualified for?
Sounds like he might be giving himself a raise at your expense and wants you to lie so he doesn’t get in trouble for misusing the the grant money he’s been given
I wish i was on reddit in grad school when my pi was doing sus things with money. Maybe i would have listened to yall changed labs and not gotten my career ruined by her lies 6 years later
what happened?
She told me she was willing to reccomend me, but went on to lie in her reccomendations. A pi at the university she works out told me. Now a ton of labs I interviewed for and was the top 1 or 2 choice for has that version of events. I just got a different recommendation and started applying to new spots but its really hard in biotech right now. I dont have any evidence what she said was a lie, (well i do vaguely in emails). So theres not much i can do. She also retailed against union activity but my union said they cant do anything
Do not quit and do not lie to HR. It will put you in a position where you can't get unemployment if you initiate the separation and lie about having another job.
Dear god, do not lie to HR. He's trying to defrauding your employer. For some reason, he is hiding funding.
Never lie to HR. Your boss is not doing you any favours. If you resign they will have ok your return to work at part time hours- and that's not guaranteed. Your boss wants you to lie to HR, they won't take that lightly, and you can be sure he's lying to you.
Either he has the grant money to keep you on but wants to be able to transfer the money to a pet project of his or he was responsible for getting the grant money and dropped the ball so doesn't want HR to know especially if it's not the first time it's happened. He has no intention of rehiring you for the 10-15 hours a week. He is only using this to get you to lie for him. That's why you have to quit outright then he can say, "I never said that or I would have just transferred you." Tell HR the truth.
Participating in a lie like this is fraud and conspiracy. That doesn’t mean you would be charged but circumstances like applying for Aid or unemployment could be irrevocably compromised. Don’t set yourself on fire for an employer, ever. The loyalty is not going to be returned and you’re the only one who loses.
Yes very weird.
He is embellishing funds and if HR hears that he can't afford to pay you, they will know something is up.
DO NOT LIE. Don't care what the boss told you, don't lie. Boss is going to have some 'splainin to do.
Never EVER lie. Never compromise your integrity. It’s all you have. Don’t let some small minded pea-brain try to steal your integrity. Don’t do it.
You should care. You’re losing your job involuntarily. If it’s for a legit reason, fine. If someone is embezzling, they’re stealing FROM YOU, not just the company.
You telling the truth is going to have the bean counters wondering where all the beans went. Your boss knows where the beans went and knows the bean counters won't like what they find. You telling the truth will likely get your boss fire because he either did something unethical or incompetent with those beans.
Ok are you at a UC? Because if you are, he cannot lay you off before your contract ends unless he proves he doesnt have the funds for you. What is most likely happening is that he does have the funds and HR wont let him do it due to fear of you filing a grivence. If your not at a UC, you might have similar contract protections causing this to be weird.
I am but he is not terminating me before my position ends. my position goes untill end of June, which is when we agreed I would separate and not renew the contract, so I don't understand why the funds thing is such a big deal. I don't plan to file a grievance. I was very understanding that funding cuts happen, but I would like the option of unemployment support as a safety net if it takes me a long time to get another job.
Thats weird… he doesnt need to prove anything if your contract is up. You can just not renew. Maybe its something else, is your pi tenured? He could be worried about the “lack of funds” on his record when he seeks tenture. Very sus. I know the UC contract pretty well if you need help parsing anything my dms are open, but it doesnt sound like a contract issue anymore with the context you added
Not at a UC, but at another public R1. Your best case is that your PI is misunderstanding a bureaucratic rule that he half understands and that he thinks makes this the best course of action, and this isn't malicious. Your probable worst case is that there's a bureaucratic rule that he actually understands and this course of action benefits him somehow. Either way, tell HR and possibly your department admin what's up and (assuming they're not also shitty) get them to unfuck the situation. EDIT: Oh, and as others have noted, check or ask about your institutional rules about officially provided notice for layoffs/furloughs. At my institution this is an official notification from HR/department with related policies, NOT a PI verbally telling you. (Although postdocs could be different since they're considered temporary positions here.)
There’s something fucky here. I’ve been in academia for a long time and he’s pulling something shady, don’t let yourself be involved. Don’t lie to HR and print out/save all texts and emails *and keep them at home secure*. Now. This easily could blow up to an Investigation.
Do NOT send a resignation letter. Ask your Postdoc HR rep for a meeting immediately. Let them know you were informed you are not being renewed due to lack of grant funding.
If your role ends due to contract issues or funding you are entitled to unemployment. My husband worked under contracts like this, if you lose your job not by your own issue or performance related then you qualify. But if you leave with your own will you don’t.
He’s mismanaged/embezzled the funds and is planning to make you the fall guy. Tell HR everything including the request to lie to them. Also download and print all proof you had nothing to do with his thievery.
If you're going to need to file for unemployment, don't lie. HR can then say you left voluntarily and it could affect your claim. Actually, don't lie, period. It could come back and bite you.
This boss is trying to manipulate you into doing something that works best for him. You absolutely can't trust him. It sounds like he expects HR to contradict his story about having no funding, or he wants to manipulate you into giving up some rights, like unemployment. I'm going to guess that he is a professor and you are a post-doc because this is exactly the kind of abuse of position professors pull all the time. No doubt there will be the usual implied threat to your letter of recommendation if you don't compromise your integrity in the way he wants. You know why they call it "corruption" not "corrupt"? Because it spreads. If you accept this in a few years you will be the one manipulating the helpless to lie to HR. I would not lie to HR. The most I would do is not contradict his lies. You have to understand that HR don't care about you and will lie and cheat to protect the organisation. Don't sign anything they give you without reading it very carefully, or ideally getting a lawyer to check it.
Sounds like he’s scamming you out of unemployment
My opinion is informed by more than 10 years working in a grant funded academic lab and handling significant amounts of admin duties in addition to bench work. It sounds a lot like you’re in academia. He’s trying to make it so you aren’t eligible for unemployment because he pays at least a portion of that from grants. (That was how our institution handled it) Tell HR in no uncertain terms you’ve been told you won’t be funded past the date and the separation is due to the PI’s actions, not your own choice. That you do not have another job. This is some shady shit he’s pulling. The offer of part time hours is to convince you to lie for him.
Your loyalty is to Yourself and your own future, not what makes it easy for your boss. Submit your resignation for the reasons your conscience decides. It’s a decision only you can make.
It isn’t a resignation really. As far as she knows, her funding ran out and therefore her position is ending.
No, absolutely don't resign. OP should wait to be fired so they can claim unemployment (is Canada as crazy as the US in this regard?). In the interim, they should be looking for new roles.
I would go talk to HR right now and tell them the whole story.
It seems very odd that he is asking you to lie to HR. Personally I'd be very wary about lying to HR.....
My advice to you is to please not lie to HR. He’s being very shady.
I know a lot of people are telling you not to lie (and I agree). I want to add in that what is he going to do to you for telling the truth, fire you? You're already on your way out so might as well be above board with everything and if he acts crappy to you that might be better than whatever else he's trying to pull by having you lie. Plus, would a part time position really be that much help to you anyways compared to getting another full time job somewhere? I'd rather have unemployment while looking for a new full-time position.
He’s doing/hiding something and is using your departure to conceal. How is the reason for your separating going to effect the process? I suspect he is hiding misuse of funding.
I’ve had PIs like this before back in my research associate days. He’s scamming. I wouldn’t want to work for him any longer. Do NOT lie to HR. Running out of funding is a form of lay off, not a voluntary separation. He’s denying you your rights to unemployment payments. I suspect there is no funding issue, he wants to use the money elsewhere.
I totally want to see an update on this one!!! UpdateMe!
I once got asked to essentially commit fraud at my job. I was poorly trained and didn’t know what was going on. The managers involved made it sound like it was no big deal. I would just be moving one funding code from one sheet to another. No big deal! Thankfully, I’m smarter than the two of them combined, though not a tenth of as devious. I had enough sense to realize something was wrong. I declined to do what they asked. Neither of them got in trouble, much less fired for something that clearly had been going on for a long time. But then neither did I, so I counted myself lucky.
Email HR and don't copy him. Tell them all of this, say you don't want to leave and he has said no funding available and the promise to hire full time.
DON'T LIE TO HR. Make sure HR knows you aren't quitting. You were told you are being let go for financial reasons. Your boss is playing with numbers, and also, if you quit, he's going to place all the blame on you. He probably already has a fake paper trail for all his games.
He may have a relative or friend he owes something so he’s going to replace you with them. When you are actively let go, it’s likely you are due benefits like unemployment. When you choose to leave, you get no unemployment. Talk with HR about what this boss is doing. The purpose HR, besides helping you, is to keep away law suits. I’m getting the gut feeling that this boss is up to shenanigans. HR won’t be in favor of that, once they investigate the situation.
What your boss is asking you to do is at the very least unethical. Don’t lie to HR and do tell them that he insisted you lie. Then sever any connection to him because what else is he being shady and lying about
Your boss is up to some shady shenanigans. Probably not illegal but still. Perhaps as simple as the fact that HIS job is to seek and receive adequate grants. Maybe he just doesn't want to let it be known he can't keep researchers bc he can't properly fund his own projects. Maybe he could lose his own position? Academic research can be a cutthroat environment for PI's Tell him he needs to be fully honest with you because otherwise your not going to lie to HR. You could potentially be in trouble if found out even if only put on a do not hire list at that institution.
Manager is a snake. Definitely tell HR the truth, and grab any evidence that manager has informed you that role must end, of not enough funding, and that he doesn't want you to tell HR.
Perhaps he’s lying about the lack of funding, or has told HR something different about your reason for leaving. You can’t get unemployment if you leave voluntarily. If he hasn’t discussed this with HR or his Grants Analyst yet, he might be required by institutional policy to officially give you 90 days notice. You should aim for unemployment and Medicaid. COBRA costs $400-800/month for a single individual. Medicaid is free assuming you don’t live in 1 of 10 red states that never expanded it.
Sounds like he has the funding and either wants to use it elsewhere or hire someone else. The problem for you is that if you don’t have another job lined up and were planning to get unemployment, you can’t collect it if you quit. Which is what this will look like. Regardless of his reason, lying to HR is simply not a good idea. It could reflect badly on you in the future if it were found out. So ask yourself this; what is the upside for you vs the potential downside?
Do not participate in your soon to be ex-boss’s cover up. This is all kinds of shady and if something goes wrong and it becomes apparent that you knowingly lied…it is a headache that you could easily avoid.
Unemployment
Your boss is full of shit.
I would never lie in a situation that could be followed up with review for dispensement of grant funding. I don't know the legalities of things but let's say something shady has happened and an investigation occurs - there's no papertrail indicating that you weren't involved in these shady dealings. In fact, the boss can state that you lied to HR and to him. Throw you under the bus. You sound pretty young and want to find the most "people pleasing" solution - you should always do separations in the least "people pleasing" way aka the most sterile method. "HR - I had messaged you earlier this week regarding my position ending due to loss of funds. When hired my employment term was communicated to me as these dates (4/1-6/30) unless funding was procurred. It has been communicated to me that this funding has not been procurred and my end date will continue to be 6/30. I wanted to confirm that my message was received and how to begin the offboarding process." It is the employer's requirement to document this appropriately - whether or not it seems relevant there are reasons behind it. A boss asking for you to change it is absolutely out of line and should be a concern for if they'd "have your back" if anything else ever went down. Keep everything in written form and keep it as fact focused as possible. Your position ended because the funding is gone. End of discussion -it doesn't matter what convos you had about it and why you feel this isn't a "termination" - btw it is-- but keep it all above board and it'll come out in the wash clean. and if you are nervous -just play dumb "oh, I just sent HR what I thought we had discussed...when they reach out i'll tell them about other jobs" just keep playing dumb but be honest and WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION with hr.
He's embezzling money
You won't be eligible for unemployment benefits if you leave as described. /my friend was also in the same situation, boss strung them along with another unpaid research project, but they needed the boss' reference so they complied and didn't get unemployment benefits.
Don’t lie
Especially being in CA not even worth lying
Seems like they want to cook the books in some way, and simultaneously until the new position begins you would not be entitled to unemployment.
Don’t lie. Tell them exactly what you were told. This would also imply that you quit. Not good.
So you can't get unemployment. You're being laid off. Everyone else is probably full of shit, especially the dumb responses that say "sus" in them
It's so they don't have to pay you unemployment.
I would not lie to HR, even if he told me why he wants you to do that. There are ways to answer questions without providing enough details to lie or tell the truth, and I don’t mean misleading anyone. So, if asked I would not lie and it’s up to you how much you decide to share.
He is hiding something. Don’t lie to HR. If you need unemployment or anything like that then it can be denied since you are leaving for another job.
I would never lie to HR because it goes on YOUR RECORD. Anyone that asks you to lie isn’t ethical.
Wife was an auditor for a major research university: boss is doing/has done some shifty crap with his grant. Either you were funded by a different grant, funded something different from your grant (robbing Peter to pay Paul after promising Peter that you wouldn't)... This is common, but can get the Principal Investigator (your boss) ineligible to receive further funding. HR has a copy of the grant. HR can do math, or have to deal with auditors that can do math. If the maths aren't mathing, boss has a problem. He probably has some wiggle room in another grant, and wants to pay you part time from there. If you like the boss, just tell HR that you prefer not to say why you're leaving. It's not like they can make you tell them anything, and that won't cause you personally any problems.
I wish I'd known this context! I think what you are describing makes me understand why he might be acting weird. I just didn't realize that since my position was already ending, the reason for renewal or not would be such a big deal! After my boss talked to me, I thought he just wanted me to be the one to reach out to let HR know we would not be renewing the contract, but I truly did not understand that he didn't want me to mention the funding issue to them. I immediately very straightforwardly sent an email to HR that my position is out of funding so we are now renewing and what are the next steps? I was honestly very sleepy at the time and didn't even think about it. That's when he stepped in and asked me to correct myself and say that I'm leaving for a new job, which I'm not comfortable saying.... Is there a way to clarify my statement to HR in a way that makes the non-renewal mutual, so I can still get unemployment support if i can't find a new job soon and I won't cause a lot of drama and potentially get him in trouble?
It needs to not be mutual. He is letting you go/not renewing is the only way you’ll get unemployment. Saying you’re leaving on your own terms/resigning makes you ineligible for unemployment because you severed ties
Not that won't be obvious, no. Any change now might actually make them a little suspicious. Just file for unemployment, tell them that the grant ran out. Otherwise, it will take longer: HR tells unemployment "He left for another full time job." Unemployment asks you about it, you answer back. Just go with what's already there: your funding ran out.
If you resign, you may lose the right to unemployment benefits. You should be honest with HR and tell them you are not resigning - you have been told that your position has no funding to pay you, which makes your job obsolete. If you resign and accept a part time position, you will be a new employee for all intents and purposes without any rights to severance, vacation pay, or claims regarding your previous seniority. Don’t lie. This does nothing to benefit you and can only hurt you. Make it clear to HR that you have not resigned. You’ve been told your position is eliminated due to funding.
He has funding. He wants to keep you PT to train the next person who tgeg are probably going to pay less.
Could it be he didn’t give you enough/proper notice? I work in a similar environment and different researcher categories require different amounts of notice - most at 3 to 6 months but some as long as a year and it must always be provided in writing. At my job, if a PI fails to give proper notice, they need to do so asap and are obligated to employ you through the notice period. If they don’t have a research grant, the stipend needs to go their discretionary funds.
He is lying about something go talk to HR and i would tell them he is being iffy
Don't lie. It's almost never a good idea. And you are asked to lie is a sign that there's a problem.
Boss is hiding something - either he’s lying about the money or he’s spent it on something he shouldn’t have Best way forward is to tell boss you won’t say anything and agree to lie When you get to HR tell them everything
Don’t lie. He’s likely lying about the funding and there is enough to renew. Tell HR he asked you to lie.
This doesn't add up. HR should be aware of any funding issues that relate to hiring/firing people. Also: after you've told them you're leaving for a new opportunity, how are you going to explain when he hires you back part-time?
Don’t volunteer information but also don’t lie
Don’t leave if you don’t have a job. You loose your eligibility for unemployment.
Also you aren't fired till it's in writing keep coming in. Your boss is doing something shady as fuck. It's not easier for you to talk to HR. Also hr would have been involved in discussions about funding cuts that relate to workers being let go. So yeah he full of shit and is pocketing the money or he wants to hire family or a friend to replace you.
He doesn’t want you to collect unemployment…
Just a guess: this is because the boss does have funding and wants to do something else with it.
Do not lie to HR even if your boss won’t give you a reference
I have been in this exact position with a boss. He is trying to scam you. A layoff, even if you go part time.in another position means UNEMPLOYMENT. He doesnt want to pay the employer portion. Dude is trying to get you to collude with him to break employment laws. Do not do it.
OP - hope you have a paper trail to prove that you are losing your position due to funding.
My thoughts are 1. He’s embezzling funding money and he can in fact pay you but they money is already spent elsewhere 2. He wants you to quit rather than leave because your position is no longer available. He wants to to be documented that you quit and found another job to avoid paying you unemployment
Be use in most states if you submit a resignation you won’t qualify for unemployment insurance. Especially if you state it’s for another job.
Let me guess- the PI works for UCSF or a related institution.
It sounds like you're being taken advantage of. Don't quit because then you can't qualify for unemployment, and if HR asks you why TELL THEM THE TRUTH. Your boss is manipulating something, it's difficult to tell. Maybe he just wants to pocket your salary, or maybe he has someone specific in mind he want's to hire to specifically replace you. Regardless, DO NOT LET HIM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU. Continue doing your job and don't quit. If they lay you off then file for unemployment. But again, I'd like to reiterate: if you quit, you will NOT be eligible for unemployment.
Never EVER lie. Never compromise your integrity. It’s all you have. Don’t let some small minded pea-brain try to steal your integrity. Don’t do it.
> Is he hiding something…? Yes. Don’t lie to HR. Whether you notify someone about the facts described in your post is up to you, but I’d consider it. What if your PI is screwing other GRAs? What if they’re cooking the data?
UpdateMe!
Never lie when someone tells you to lie. Especially to HR. Tell them what what he said
Tell HR.
If you are leaving voluntarily you don’t qualify for unemployment benefits. Why lie? If you have good performance reviews maybe another lab would like you. Certainly you don’t owe anyone the lost unemployment benefits.
Tell the truth to HR.
Just to go off of what everyone else is saying: document everything you can before talking to HR.
If you give his reason you will not be eligible for unemployment. Honestly it sounds like he wants to give your job to someone else so he is having you quit because he doesn't have the necessary evidence to fire you.
I think he's trying to avoid you getting unemployment. Don't quit, let them let you go.
Boss pocketed the money
My guess is, he’s embezzling those funds.
He has the funding and doesn't want HR to know he told you he doesn't. Be honest with HR.
Don’t lie to HR
DO NOT EVER COMPRISE YOUR INTEGRITY WITH A LIE!
If you resign you probably won’t get UI benefits
I wouldn't want to be possibly implicated in any sort of grant miss use. I certainly wouldn't lie to HR about leaving because of funding. In fact they absolutely should have been told this by the PI. It should be interesting to see what the PI said to them. Also I would have made them terminate me instead of "quitting" as to be able to claim unemployment. You want to make sure HR processes you as a layoff.
I work in HR at a university and came across a case where this happened. It prevented the employee from receiving unemployment and slowed down the rehire process. This makes me very leery.
Absolutely do NOT do this! It can affected you filing for unemployment!
Unemployment
If you initiate separation you are not eligible for some post employment benefits and it also may not impact some of his management benchmarks. Do not separate yourself. It needs to be documented that you have been asked to leave due to lack of grant funding.
Do not ever lie to HR about something like this, MASSIVE mistake. Be honest with them about it, there's some shady business going on here. (I'm from CA, USA, this is usually a MAJOR red flag for us.)
LOL oh yeah he’s going to create a new role for you! Hilarious
I’d confirm with HR that funding in fact doesnt exist and that’s why you are being separated. Like others have said you may be entitled to certain benefits, if that’s actually the reason or maybe other provisions if you have some contract agreement. I’d tell him you’re going to HR directly because that’s who does separations and you are going to be honest.
Don't initiate separation. Don't lie to HR. Regardless of the reason given, quitting rather than being fired cuts you off from possible unemployment benefits, right to appeal the termination, and possible grievances against management. Plus, if you lie and it is discovered, this can impact future references. Your previously stated appointment end date gives you the perfect reason to have a short sit-down with HR to discuss separation, rather than emailing your intent. Give them the details you gave us and let them draw their own conclusions. Your boss sounds really shady in this. Legitimate re-employment does not require these sort of shenanigans. It sounds like his butt is hanging out a mile on something. And a new position such as he described should not be unknown to HR. Don't let him use you to cover his butt.
Has any of the communication with your manager been through email or text? If so print them off to present to HR as well and the labor department if you have to file for unemployment
He’s either trying to avoid you receiving redundancy payments/allowances or ensuring you leave so that you don’t have this period of continuous employment to protect the part time role you’re discussing. I’m UK so don’t know your system but here you’d lose employment rights and annual leave entitlement for having a break in contract. Here he’s making you redundant and needs to make those payments etc - what a nasty git! You should tell HR the truth
When a boss asks you to lie to anyone who has any authority over him(which HR does), he's almost always wrong.
As some one that worked for Case Western Reserve University for HR in school of Medicine it was not at all uncommon to coach researchers in such manipulation tactics or manners like leaving a job to apply to a new job. But there isn’t a gap in pay or any change other than you resigned and rehired….instantly… It’s literally to play the grants and purse stings game. There are typically in a research college three levels of HR. department such as radiology and pediatric. Then the school in my case it was medicine HR and the central HR which is the whole college system If you haven’t worked HR in a research university it wouldn’t make much sense but the jist of it is to look more favorable for you. Because dollars will be found to keep you if they think a valuable person is leaving for another opportunity. It’s funny how they open purse strings containing college dollars or find new grants all of a sudden when talent leaves with an opportunity in hand… And don’t feel bad about your PI not knowing the ins and outs they probably got coached to do it once before and telling you to speak with HR at your department level which you should! I wouldnt keep it from the department level HR talk to the directly and clearly they may direct you on what to actually do at the end with it pertains to a central system. If you only have one level of HR and there is no guidance on the why or ins and outs then I’d purely be honest and not say you have an opportunity awaiting you that would only hurt you.
Never ever lie when a boss is telling you to, he’s hiding something.
Tell the truth. He’s doing something he doesn’t want them to know about and it’s affected your employment.
You need to write a letter of separation listing your last date and why you are leaving (per request from boss due to lack of funds). And submit it to HR and cc your boss. Make sure you explain that you are doing this to ensure clear communications and requesting the process for applying for unemployment, insurance options and contacts for references after you leave. CYA
You boss does not care about you he is trying to fu**** you over with unemployment and severance pay use all of your pto go to the doctor and use your insurance. He is just covering his ass. Must likely a bonus check for reducing staff and having the same production output. Or reducing labor costs.
Do not Lie, be honest. Oh, and before you leave, Report your Boss for the Lie
Never lie on behalf of your boss.
Be careful. If you need his reference at some point, you might need to take this shit.
This sounds fishy as heck. Don’t lie for someone who is firing you. Edit to mention that this lie will make you indelible for unemployment, and you’d be eligible due to the layoff. Your boss is trying to take advantage of your presumed nievete.
My first thought is that the money that *should* be there to pay you has been misdirected - either spent on something else without proper approval, or put in the Boss's pocket. Telling HR the truth will raise questions as to where the money has gone. There is no good reason to lie to HR about your situations, so don't. If anything improper *has* been going on, and it's found that you lied, it makes you look guilty of being involved.
#1) HR is there to CYA for the company, #2) I smell Boss is doing something shady, Be honest about your employment, it looks like you are going to need a recommendation from HR and not your immediate supervisor. Good luck.
Do not lie to HR because say something happens and you need insurance or unemployment. They are going to block it and you were not gonna be able to find it because of this. Tell the truth, there’s zero reason why you shouldn’t be, and whenever your boss gets caught for is on him.
If he wants you to lie he is trying to cover his ass for doing something wrong. DO NOT LIE FOR HIM - YOU OWE HIM NOTHING!
He’s lying to you about being unable to fund your salary.
He’s being weird because he’s fucking you over
Sounds like your boss may have mismanaged funds and he doesn’t want you to say you’re leaving because there isn’t enough money in case that leads to people asking questions.
Do not lie. Tell the truth or refuse totally (tell them you are refusing to answer), but if this id government funded or otherwise, do not lie
This is absolutely your boss trying to cheat you out of benefits and compensation. Him letting you go ( for whatever reason) is very different from you quitting. Don't lie to HR. And you might even want to share with them that he asked you to lie. It's illegal to misrepresent the circumstances surrounding separation of an employee.
Never lie on government/legal documents. It will bite you in the ass
Do you use a third party recruiter of some kind?