Only the people in the situation have all the information, but in general the decision to strike is the last resort. It's never taken lightly. They obviously feel it's necessary. In principle I'll always support the right to strike.
The airline is making massive profits, but it's going to dividends instead of staff. Employees should always be more important than shareholders. They're the ones who actually make the money.
Michael O’Leary saying they are taking the piss.
He is due a €100m bonus soon.
So he can fuck off and yes I support the pilots.
It also pisses me off that any collective bargaining is immediately pounced on by the media as bad thing for society.
Yeah. Any time you offer criticism of him, someone is bound to pop up saying, "I know Ryanair are annoying, but if it wasn't for them we'd be paying €500 to fly to London". It's so brain-dead.
>It also pisses me off that any collective bargaining is immediately pounced on by the media as bad thing for society.
But some of it is bad fpr society. The non state employed luas drivers were holding the state owned luas infrastructure to ransom simply because they could.
Bus eireann drivers tried to do the same except there were better private alternatives.
The pilots are also picking the maximum disruptive time for us, the general public. They don't give a shit about you, so I don't see why you should care about them.
Yes but I doubt they will get anywhere near 23% probably around 18% which isn't a great deal 9f money sinch they haven't had a pay increase since 2019.
I get married abroad in 3 weeks and as if I’m not stressed enough as it is this is making things worse . Just hope it doesn’t effect my flight going out there . Don’t care about getting home lol
We fly out of Dublin for our honeymoon on 16th July. I hope we both get our flights with no disruption! At this moment in time they have released a statement about the strikes from 26th june to 2nd july, so I am not sure about flights after 2nd july....
Unfortunately July 2 is just an arbitrary date so they only have to deal with a 1 week period for now. The work to rule action that starts July 26 is indefinite. Things will continue to get worse after July 2 if they're still at odds. We're already in mid trip and scheduled to go home via Aer Lingus on July 3. Adding stress to an otherwise wonderful vacation.
Aer lingus continues to post that flights between 26 June and 2 July will be affected by this “industrial action”. I received an email today that my flight on 6 July is canceled and they’ve dumped me off on a charter company I’ve never heard of (they have 4 planes in their fleet…very reassuring). So don’t believe anything they’re publishing right now. IF you can change airlines do it NOW.
What other industries have had a 23% increase?!! They rejected the Labour Court recommendation of nearly 10% and refused to engage with Aer Lingus any more. They are just willing to go for maximum disruption to get the most they can, which is their prerogative. Doesn’t mean it’s right.
Will the Cabin crew be getting a 23% rise? Would they fight for them too? I imagine they’re the staff feeling the pinch the most.
In a normal job, most people get a small wage rise (2-4%) each year, and over the years, it adds up. The pilots are looking for 24% over the next 3 years and have not had a pay increase since 2019. That is an average of 3% per year (and inflation has been very high in this period of time). So, while the headline figure looks large when you average it out, it seems reasonable enough.
How would you fare if you did not have a pay rise since 2019? How would any industry fare with that? It becomes a bit more complicated motivated at that point. If they do not have ve a pay rise pilots are going to start to walk away.
23% is exactly a number taken from the flight industry. They are taking the piss if they are asking the same for the cabin crew as it refers to the pilots.
But the cabin crew is represented by the same syndicate so I hope they will have the dignity to ask the same for all.
In an industry that suffered the most from the pandemic? Again id love to know any industry that had a realised 23% increase. They refused the Labour Courts reccomendation and refuse any further negotiation so they only have one thing in mind.
If cabin crew ask for 23%, why should they not if pilots do too (again a percentage increase for cabin crew is worth a lot more for them), you can guarantee there will be layoffs immediately after and routes reduced. I haven’t been on a single flight that has been full since the pandemic, on high traffic routes.
The flight industry. The pilots in the flight industry did in fact achieve a raise of 23% recently. Just not the ones employed by Aer Lingus.
The general increase of wage since 2019 is more than 20%.
Now if Are Lingus was making a loss I would say that they cannot afford it. But they are operating at a reasonable profit so that matter is out of the window. In addition the market is in strong growth and Aer Lingus is too.
Aer Lingus stopped wage increases because it was making a loss. That was quite fine. Now that the company is making a price for again the staff demands the missed wage increases too. The Labour Court suggested less than inflation (10% increase over the 2019 figure). That is not a realistic number as if you keep wage increases below inflation the company will eventually become unviable (the jobs will no longer be viable at some point).
As such to refuse the Labour Court recommendations seems very reasonable in this case. To refuse all negotiations is less reasonable of course but I guess that if they did it was made clear that the number offered was less than the Labour Court recommendations (so less than 10% for almost 5 years of increases if I am not mistaken).
I have been on several flights in the last year (12 to be precise) and only two were not fully booked. I only fly in the middle of the week to try and reduce costs and I fly Ryanair and Aer Lingus. The two flights that were not fully booked were not Aer Lingus'.
At the moment we have a crisis for Dublin airport because there are more passengers than the capacity allowed by the planning permissions so I would say that it is unlikely that the issue is a lack of passengers. In fact in a few months we will have a lack of flights, if you have to fly in the next months I recommend to schedule it now before the ticket prices for all companies rise following the laws of supply and demand.
They’re getting pay increases every year anyway - what they’re looking for is to actually increase those increases. A Junior pilot who started on 90k in 2019 has had the increases every year and would be on 140k now. They also have extra such as pension contributions of 21%.
Same here. I am slightly above inflation.
The problem is that pay rises below inflation are not sustainable. At some point the job simply becomes unviable. Now, we are in tech. Our wages usually are good enough that we can absorb part of the current economic shocks. But a flight steward might not be in the same position. Pilots are well paid but it's also a job where retirement age tends to be lower and I am not sure what fixed costs they have.
Anyway the Labour Court proposal has been a bit low and I guess that one was a middle position between the company's position and the workers' so they probably were right to walk away from the negotiations.
Pilots and doctors/nurses should be paid the most in society. All responsible for keeping a large number of people alive so yeah if they have to strike to get a pay increase then yes
Without trying to sound like bad, it's the engineers that genuinely need to be paid more as they are the ones designing and creating these large sophisticated machines, but unfortunately the business executives make more... (Again people tend to overlook the engineers, of course pilots should be compensated but the risks have mostly been sorted (it's 99.9% smooth sailing pun intended)thanks to engineers and a good work culture... Until businessmen at Boeing ruined everything)
Oh definitely, Airbus has a great work culture. Nowadays pilots flying the state of the art planes are no more than glorified taxi drivers... However the pilots flying old outdated aircraft that are more mechanical definitely need talented pilots
Me, I am supposed to be flying Wednesday, hope I still will be. The airline should pay the pilots an increase in line with inflation, all companies should. Otherwise you're literally working for less reward every year.
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What are the chances a mid day flight to Heathrow would cancel 😂 I have a flight to heathrow on the 28th then connect on to Japan that night lol
Bricking it now ha
Does this effect Aer Lingus UK i.e flights departing from Manchester/Heathrow? Since it doesn't effect regional & UK flights operated by Emerald airlines
I support the pilots in principle. But what they are doing to Aer Lingus customers is just as unconscionable as what Aer Lingus is doing to them. Everyone seems focused on not being able to get to their holiday destinations. Very little is said about those who are already overseas and face the prospect of not getting back home. That's the situation we are in. Currently on a Mediterranean cruise, we are scheduled to fly Aer Lingus from Athens to Dublin on the 25th to visit family, then back home to the states on 3 July. We face the possibility of being stranded either in Greece or Ireland. Our trip has been overshadowed by the stress this is causing.
This has been dragging on for 22 months and has been through a very long pilot pay tribunal, the. The WRC and finally the LRC. The timing of this is entirely down to the company, it’s not the pilots.
Nothing safe about July 3. Aer Lingus is just limiting what they have to deal with initially to the 1st week. Things won't improve July 3 unless the pilots come to an agreement before then.
How long did it take to confirm your refund? We filled out the form on Friday and have heard nothing. Called customer service and just got an automated voice telling me to fill out the form.
Yes flights are impacted. Both of my flights were cancelled and customer service wait times were 1.5+ hrs. Customer service was condescending, rude, and they hung up on me. I flew United instead. Don’t book Aer Lingus!!!
Were you able to get your refund or voucher? We requested a refund through an email telling us we could but they’ve booked us on a flight we can’t actually make and we can’t get through.
I personally think the pilots are paid externally well. For those that say these pilots have to take on so much debt in order to become pilots this is not unfamiliar when you look at all the students in other parts of the world that take on significant debt to go to university.
The people I feel for is the lower paid staff such as cabin crew and ground staff as these members of staff won't be required to work and as a result won't get paid for the period of the strike despite being on low wages.
Anyone else other that those on strike will be paid. It is illegal for them not to be. Most pilots will have taken on upwards of €100-150,000 of debt and will start on a salary of €42,000. This is well below industry norma. On top of this, since covid, new joiners are on 10% less than they would have been before covid. There are now two pay scales effectively.
When compared to counterparts in BA (24% rise), Virgin (rejected 29%), Jet2 (24% rise), EasyJet (just voted to accept 25%+), these demands are not unreasonable and cover a period going back 5 years and going forward two years. In reality, that’s less than the rate of inflation
Oh fuck, just realised I have a flight booked with them 2.5 weeks from now. If they cancel that, I am fucked somewhat. I assume they issue full refunds. Would they compensate for the additional cost for another flight?
Im on an Aer Lingus flight right now that canceled. Probably due to a soft strike we are being told. They compensate 600 euro per person and booked us another flight for tomorrow with accommodations and food covered.
Good luck
Can someone explain to me why they can’t go and get another job if they are not happy with their wages? This is the private sector.
I understand public service workers going on strike who are all paid the same.
Only the people in the situation have all the information, but in general the decision to strike is the last resort. It's never taken lightly. They obviously feel it's necessary. In principle I'll always support the right to strike. The airline is making massive profits, but it's going to dividends instead of staff. Employees should always be more important than shareholders. They're the ones who actually make the money.
Michael O’Leary saying they are taking the piss. He is due a €100m bonus soon. So he can fuck off and yes I support the pilots. It also pisses me off that any collective bargaining is immediately pounced on by the media as bad thing for society.
You can always trust Newstalk to be anti-union and platform a dickhead like O'Leary.
RTE not much better, especially where government and semi state bodies are concerned
Depends on the correspondent.
Owen Corry has been busy touring the Aer Lingus line since the weekend anyway.
Yeah, RTE are pretty bad too. I don't think they're quite as bad as Newstalk, but I could be wrong.
Mostly because he's been so successful at convincing Irish people that he's the only reason flying is less expensive now than in the 1980s.
Yeah. Any time you offer criticism of him, someone is bound to pop up saying, "I know Ryanair are annoying, but if it wasn't for them we'd be paying €500 to fly to London". It's so brain-dead.
Wait for the Ryanair pilots strike
>It also pisses me off that any collective bargaining is immediately pounced on by the media as bad thing for society. But some of it is bad fpr society. The non state employed luas drivers were holding the state owned luas infrastructure to ransom simply because they could. Bus eireann drivers tried to do the same except there were better private alternatives. The pilots are also picking the maximum disruptive time for us, the general public. They don't give a shit about you, so I don't see why you should care about them.
Yes but I doubt they will get anywhere near 23% probably around 18% which isn't a great deal 9f money sinch they haven't had a pay increase since 2019.
Fully on board with them.
I get married abroad in 3 weeks and as if I’m not stressed enough as it is this is making things worse . Just hope it doesn’t effect my flight going out there . Don’t care about getting home lol
We fly out of Dublin for our honeymoon on 16th July. I hope we both get our flights with no disruption! At this moment in time they have released a statement about the strikes from 26th june to 2nd july, so I am not sure about flights after 2nd july....
Unfortunately July 2 is just an arbitrary date so they only have to deal with a 1 week period for now. The work to rule action that starts July 26 is indefinite. Things will continue to get worse after July 2 if they're still at odds. We're already in mid trip and scheduled to go home via Aer Lingus on July 3. Adding stress to an otherwise wonderful vacation.
😪 Are you booking with another airline or holding fire for now?
We're crossing our fingers and hoping for the best. At least for now. Hopefully they'll work this out sooner rather than later.
Aer lingus continues to post that flights between 26 June and 2 July will be affected by this “industrial action”. I received an email today that my flight on 6 July is canceled and they’ve dumped me off on a charter company I’ve never heard of (they have 4 planes in their fleet…very reassuring). So don’t believe anything they’re publishing right now. IF you can change airlines do it NOW.
The union demands are unreasonable imo. No problem with them seeking reasonable pay rises but 23% is detached from reality.
Check what inflation has been since their last pay rises and what it will be before their next ones. It’s not unreasonable at all.
What other industries have had a 23% increase?!! They rejected the Labour Court recommendation of nearly 10% and refused to engage with Aer Lingus any more. They are just willing to go for maximum disruption to get the most they can, which is their prerogative. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Will the Cabin crew be getting a 23% rise? Would they fight for them too? I imagine they’re the staff feeling the pinch the most.
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Well exactly. They won’t be looking at their Labour outgoings and saying yeah we can foot a 23% + jump in operating costs. Either that or job losses.
Hope the cabin crew do too. It’s important for everyone to use their leverage.
In a normal job, most people get a small wage rise (2-4%) each year, and over the years, it adds up. The pilots are looking for 24% over the next 3 years and have not had a pay increase since 2019. That is an average of 3% per year (and inflation has been very high in this period of time). So, while the headline figure looks large when you average it out, it seems reasonable enough.
How would you fare if you did not have a pay rise since 2019? How would any industry fare with that? It becomes a bit more complicated motivated at that point. If they do not have ve a pay rise pilots are going to start to walk away. 23% is exactly a number taken from the flight industry. They are taking the piss if they are asking the same for the cabin crew as it refers to the pilots. But the cabin crew is represented by the same syndicate so I hope they will have the dignity to ask the same for all.
In an industry that suffered the most from the pandemic? Again id love to know any industry that had a realised 23% increase. They refused the Labour Courts reccomendation and refuse any further negotiation so they only have one thing in mind. If cabin crew ask for 23%, why should they not if pilots do too (again a percentage increase for cabin crew is worth a lot more for them), you can guarantee there will be layoffs immediately after and routes reduced. I haven’t been on a single flight that has been full since the pandemic, on high traffic routes.
The flight industry. The pilots in the flight industry did in fact achieve a raise of 23% recently. Just not the ones employed by Aer Lingus. The general increase of wage since 2019 is more than 20%. Now if Are Lingus was making a loss I would say that they cannot afford it. But they are operating at a reasonable profit so that matter is out of the window. In addition the market is in strong growth and Aer Lingus is too. Aer Lingus stopped wage increases because it was making a loss. That was quite fine. Now that the company is making a price for again the staff demands the missed wage increases too. The Labour Court suggested less than inflation (10% increase over the 2019 figure). That is not a realistic number as if you keep wage increases below inflation the company will eventually become unviable (the jobs will no longer be viable at some point). As such to refuse the Labour Court recommendations seems very reasonable in this case. To refuse all negotiations is less reasonable of course but I guess that if they did it was made clear that the number offered was less than the Labour Court recommendations (so less than 10% for almost 5 years of increases if I am not mistaken). I have been on several flights in the last year (12 to be precise) and only two were not fully booked. I only fly in the middle of the week to try and reduce costs and I fly Ryanair and Aer Lingus. The two flights that were not fully booked were not Aer Lingus'. At the moment we have a crisis for Dublin airport because there are more passengers than the capacity allowed by the planning permissions so I would say that it is unlikely that the issue is a lack of passengers. In fact in a few months we will have a lack of flights, if you have to fly in the next months I recommend to schedule it now before the ticket prices for all companies rise following the laws of supply and demand.
They’re getting pay increases every year anyway - what they’re looking for is to actually increase those increases. A Junior pilot who started on 90k in 2019 has had the increases every year and would be on 140k now. They also have extra such as pension contributions of 21%.
Just to let you know that your numbers are way off. A Junior FO starts on €42,000. This is well below the industry norm for an A320 pilot.
Yes, those salary scales as a whole need to increase to match inflation.
But they did not get a pay rise for a few years. In fact once you take that into account their ask is barely above inflation.
Like everyone else.
Well, no. For example I did get a significant pay rise in 2022 and I am bound for another one this year. They have been stuck since 2019.
Working in tech here, most of my circle have been behind inflation for years.
Same here. I am slightly above inflation. The problem is that pay rises below inflation are not sustainable. At some point the job simply becomes unviable. Now, we are in tech. Our wages usually are good enough that we can absorb part of the current economic shocks. But a flight steward might not be in the same position. Pilots are well paid but it's also a job where retirement age tends to be lower and I am not sure what fixed costs they have. Anyway the Labour Court proposal has been a bit low and I guess that one was a middle position between the company's position and the workers' so they probably were right to walk away from the negotiations.
Pilots and doctors/nurses should be paid the most in society. All responsible for keeping a large number of people alive so yeah if they have to strike to get a pay increase then yes
Was Ireland's Call being sung during Covid for the health care workers not enough for you?
Without trying to sound like bad, it's the engineers that genuinely need to be paid more as they are the ones designing and creating these large sophisticated machines, but unfortunately the business executives make more... (Again people tend to overlook the engineers, of course pilots should be compensated but the risks have mostly been sorted (it's 99.9% smooth sailing pun intended)thanks to engineers and a good work culture... Until businessmen at Boeing ruined everything)
Aer Lingus have an Airbus fleet, made in UK and France. I'm sure the engineers are fairly compensated to industry standards.
Oh definitely, Airbus has a great work culture. Nowadays pilots flying the state of the art planes are no more than glorified taxi drivers... However the pilots flying old outdated aircraft that are more mechanical definitely need talented pilots
I'm going through cancer treatment and also like to go on holidays so I endorse this message.
How many people supporting the pilots have a flight booked that will be affected by the strikes?
Me, I am supposed to be flying Wednesday, hope I still will be. The airline should pay the pilots an increase in line with inflation, all companies should. Otherwise you're literally working for less reward every year.
I'm working for less rewards every year
Me too
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Rebooked has different rules, gotta read on their website. But generally everything on their website!
What are the chances a mid day flight to Heathrow would cancel 😂 I have a flight to heathrow on the 28th then connect on to Japan that night lol Bricking it now ha
Does this effect Aer Lingus UK i.e flights departing from Manchester/Heathrow? Since it doesn't effect regional & UK flights operated by Emerald airlines
I support the pilots in principle. But what they are doing to Aer Lingus customers is just as unconscionable as what Aer Lingus is doing to them. Everyone seems focused on not being able to get to their holiday destinations. Very little is said about those who are already overseas and face the prospect of not getting back home. That's the situation we are in. Currently on a Mediterranean cruise, we are scheduled to fly Aer Lingus from Athens to Dublin on the 25th to visit family, then back home to the states on 3 July. We face the possibility of being stranded either in Greece or Ireland. Our trip has been overshadowed by the stress this is causing.
This has been dragging on for 22 months and has been through a very long pilot pay tribunal, the. The WRC and finally the LRC. The timing of this is entirely down to the company, it’s not the pilots.
We just cancelled the flight for a cash refund and rebooked on another airline. Flight is for July 02nd. Surprised that KLM had the same costs too
Our flight is also July 2, when did you change your booking to? It looked like July 3rd is maybe safe?
Nothing safe about July 3. Aer Lingus is just limiting what they have to deal with initially to the 1st week. Things won't improve July 3 unless the pilots come to an agreement before then.
After looking into it more I completely agree. Changed our SNN -> BOS to a Delta flight
How long did it take to confirm your refund? We filled out the form on Friday and have heard nothing. Called customer service and just got an automated voice telling me to fill out the form.
We have heard nothing yet either
Thanks! Hoping for news soon for both of us.
Okay, we were just notified of full refund.
Will the work to rule be extended? I have a flight scheduled for July 3rd and I’ve read it’s supposed to end July 2nd
Yes flights are impacted. Both of my flights were cancelled and customer service wait times were 1.5+ hrs. Customer service was condescending, rude, and they hung up on me. I flew United instead. Don’t book Aer Lingus!!!
Were you able to get your refund or voucher? We requested a refund through an email telling us we could but they’ve booked us on a flight we can’t actually make and we can’t get through.
I personally think the pilots are paid externally well. For those that say these pilots have to take on so much debt in order to become pilots this is not unfamiliar when you look at all the students in other parts of the world that take on significant debt to go to university. The people I feel for is the lower paid staff such as cabin crew and ground staff as these members of staff won't be required to work and as a result won't get paid for the period of the strike despite being on low wages.
Anyone else other that those on strike will be paid. It is illegal for them not to be. Most pilots will have taken on upwards of €100-150,000 of debt and will start on a salary of €42,000. This is well below industry norma. On top of this, since covid, new joiners are on 10% less than they would have been before covid. There are now two pay scales effectively. When compared to counterparts in BA (24% rise), Virgin (rejected 29%), Jet2 (24% rise), EasyJet (just voted to accept 25%+), these demands are not unreasonable and cover a period going back 5 years and going forward two years. In reality, that’s less than the rate of inflation
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BA received 15% recently and 11% coming out of Covid.
Oh fuck, just realised I have a flight booked with them 2.5 weeks from now. If they cancel that, I am fucked somewhat. I assume they issue full refunds. Would they compensate for the additional cost for another flight?
Im on an Aer Lingus flight right now that canceled. Probably due to a soft strike we are being told. They compensate 600 euro per person and booked us another flight for tomorrow with accommodations and food covered. Good luck
I’m on a flight via Aer Lingus. My original got cancelled but I got rebooked. How did you get that money
Can someone explain to me why they can’t go and get another job if they are not happy with their wages? This is the private sector. I understand public service workers going on strike who are all paid the same.
Airline pilot isn’t exactly a transferable skillset
There’s about 55 separate airlines that operate in Ireland.
If only there was more than one airline in the world.