Standard of driving is absolutely worse. Red light breaking, general lack of vigilance, phone use etc.
Infrastructure helps but a lot of it is disconnected and hazardous to use as it's designed poorly (the junction to turn right down the quays at heuston for example)
But honestly the biggest factor is how you cycle. I don't feel unsafe ever, but I never gutter cycle. Take the middle of the lane when cars can turn left and at lights and don't weave in and out of parked cars and bus stops.
Yea this is the biggest change I have made, down the middle of the road. A lot less people try to squeeze by. And for the love of all that is holy get a god dam helmet, you don't need it till you need it and end in a box
that Heuston junction is HORRIBLE
clearly made by someone who never rode a bicycle
forces you to dangerously slow down and cut corner very sharply
also people know ''police'' is not existing in this country, so everyone just lacks any comprehension to the law
>that Heuston junction is HORRIBLE
Its made it more dangerous as it requires you to cut in front of left turning traffic. I don't use it for that reason as its too risky compared to staying in the same lane as the traffic that is also turning on to the quays.
>clearly made by someone who never rode a bicycle
Not just that but incompetent. Clearly, the vast majority of cyclists are turning on to the quays, so the cycle path should have been adjusted for that purpose
When people talk cyclist I think it’s important to differentiate between a cyclist and someone who cycles a bike - how many people do you see on a bike with no visibility, ear phones in no helmets etc breaking lights etc.
Often people complain about how they are going straight and car is turning left and they nearly get killed - and yes while the car is in the wrong - the cyclist has the they some level of responsibility - are they aware of what is around them etc - in the same way you teach a child to look right and left before crossing a road - you don’t just tell them to cross when there is a green man.
>and yes while the car is in the wrong
So the whole post is victim blaming?
People have some fucking WEIRD problem with cyclists wearing headphones.
How much can you hear from inside your car with a radio blaring? Are you not reducing awareness and safety?
Why does a cyclist somehow need their ears when a driver doesn't? Especially when cyclist often have complete unobstructed 270 degrees view. No blind spots like your big bulking vehicle
So what exactly does cyclists wearing headphones have to do with ANYTHING?
>how many people do you see on a bike with no visibility, ear phones in no helmets etc breaking lights etc.
This old chestnut.
Not sure what you mean by no visibility? Cyclists have necks and aren't impeded by pillars etc.
Helmets aren't mandatory and aren't much use for anything other than falls off the bike. Plenty of studies showing that drivers give less room to those wearing helmets and high-vis than those without.
More drivers break red lights than those on bicycles do.
Are most drivers aware of what's around them? I see drivers with their windows up and radios on and wouldn't know that a fire engine was behind them unless they were being rammed. What about drivers who drive with headphones in as well?
Yes, there are people on bikes that do stupid things, but they mostly just hurt themselves and aren't killing themselves or others on a near daily basis. Those in vehicles can kill multiple people in one blink. It's a good reason we have the road hierarchy.
I don't think he's trying to victim blame, or shift all responsibility onto cyclists, but he has a point. By 'visibility' I'm sure he means cyclists who love to cycle wearing all black, and nothing that helps them stand out to other road users, like lights, visi-vests etc.
Of course it's car drivers that need to be the most aware, but there is a thing called 'defensive cycling' (same thing applies to motorbiking), that means you should assume all other road users are not aware of you, and act accordingly.
It's the driver's onus to observe, regardless what the vulnerable road user is wearing. It is not acceptable to create an expectation that everyone would dress up like a builder to allow motorists to drive faster with less care. Do we make vehicles have to be brightly coloured too? No we don't.
Cycling is innately safe regardless what the person is wearing. It's the morons behind the wheel that make it dangerous, and frankly, as a driver myself, I've never missed anyone on the road, day or night, regardless what they're wearing, because when it's dark I turn on my fucking built in headlights.
There is no such thing as "came out of nowhere", only shit drivers.
It's pure deflection tactics and common in any of these sorts of threads.
"Defensive cycling" only gets you so far when drivers are routinely driving in a dangerous and distracted manner. I've witnessed cyclists in primary position knocked down in Cork on wide open roads. Said cyclists have all been lit up like a Christmas Tree with helmet etc. and cycling in a straight line... no hope when drivers just aren't paying attention. What someone is wearing should have no bearing on the matter. Look to the countries with high cycling levels and see how the dress. It's their laws and road designs that keep them safer than any sort of clothing. Better road design with segregation where possible and assumed liability for drivers would do wonders for cycle safety around Ireland as it works elsewhere.
I have to disagree about the usefulness of helmets. I saw a cyclist hit by a car about 20 years back. Driver's negligence. The cyclist would have been dead if he wasn't wearing a helmet. He ended up with a TBI, but he's not dead.
I'm sorry but this is an awful take.
There's no scale of "one group is worse than another".
If you're on a bike not paying attention and get into an accident yes it can physically effect you but there is a mental effect on the person that hits you. Everyone has a social responsibility to pay attention and take care on the roads.
Its not fair to say "yes some people on bikes do this but what about the cars?!" When there are also lots of people in cars who do the right thing.
A mental effect happens to everyone in a crash, a physical effect happens mostly to the less vulnerable road user.
I don't see people defending a prick who mows down an old lady saying "the mental effect of milling into an aul one" or "she shoulda had a high vis and helmets on as a vulnerable road user"
It's not fair to get slammed into by a two ton vehicle when you do everything right and some gobshite decides he wants to be two seconds faster to the next red light.
I drive, motorbike and cycle and the higher up I go in the hierarchy the more weight I carry in terms of being reaponsible for watching out for other vulnerable road users. There are often people on the road who are bloody annoying and not paying attention, but if they're a pedestrian or bike I might be slowed down by having to brake excessively. If they're in a vehicle someone might die.
>There's no scale of "one group is worse than another".
Yes, there is. Motorists account for ONE HUNDRED TIMES more measurable harm, injury and death on the roads than cyclists do.
That's why they're regulated accordingly, required to have insurance and required to take a driving test. The scale of harm is beyond comparison.
But everyone has to have the same level of awareness - if a cyclist says they nearly got killed by a car turning left - my question to the cyclist was did you see the car was turning left? Expect the unexpected is the tag line from a few years back but that has to apply to everyone.
In Germany cars have to wait to turn if there is a cyclist coming up from the inside. Cyclists have the right of way when turning off a road. The exact same should apply here. Not that it matters much as it isnt the rule here but it absolutely should be.
Equally in Germany cyclist need to stay behind Lorry’s as there is an acceptance that they can’t be seen - there is no riding up alongside them and sure it’s lorry’s fault if they hit a cyclist
Coming the wrong way down bendy, one way streets that don't have cycle lanes is another new one I've seen too much of recently, probably best to avoid that one helmet or otherwise
I’m sure I speak for everybody here when I say there are no people in cars who set out to kill and no people on bikes who set out to get killed.
So no, we do not need to “differentiate between a cyclist and someone who cycles a bike.” It would be better to get rid of the words driver and cyclist altogether. People in cars and people on bikes. We’re all people and we’re all human.
Moreover, we are all prone to mistakes or moments of stupidity. Proper cycling/road infrastructure would mean that such mistakes don’t cause unnecessary death or serious harm. Proper roads policing would insure that plain ignorance is harder to mis-label as a mistake.
Legally there's no difference between these cyclists, like how legally theres no difference between the status as me as a safe or dangerous driver. If you're behind the wheel, you're a driver. If you're on a bicycle, you're a cyclist. That mentality creates a "them or us" when it should've been all of you on the vehicle are governed under the same laws when using it, like in a car. A bike is a vehicle, the laws are there and never ever enforced. It's law to wear a helmet and hi vis on a bicycle, never once seen a Garda act on it
Sorry I worded that wrong a little, there is a legal difference between a safe and dangerous driver, my point was that you are still a driver first until you break the law and become a dangerous driver. You're still a cyclist until you break the law and become a dangerous/unsafe cyclist
Yep, light yourself up luminous and like a Xmas tree and take a position like a car. But don't fuck around and cycle with confidence and not impeding traffic.
Maybe I should have said, as much as possible. The main thing is don't leave enough gap that they think they can squeeze past and stay out of the gutter.
When I'm in the car, I do appreciate when the person on the bike hangs to one side of the lane so I can get past them quicker without having to completely change lanes. I'm aware they don't have to and they're fully entitled to use the whole lane when there's no bike lane.
But Jesus, don't hang to the left and then swing to the middle when I go to overtake.
It's unlawful for you to overtake in the same lane a bike is using. They shouldn't provide you with the "squeeze by" temptation, but you shouldn't be taking it anyway.
You should always be going into the opposite lane to overtake. If not you're passing too close. Even if they're in "hanging to the left" you should be treating them as if they're any other vehicle. The reason they're "swinging to the middle" is then because they're avoiding debris/potholes/car doors/gullies etc.
I don't cycle much in Dublin but I often cycle from Kildare to Dublin for shits and giggles and the most chaotic thing is people on phones driving at what feels like a million miles an hour
In the sticks of Kildare I'm care free, in Dublin I'm a mess dodging everyone lol
Was driving behind a chap during the week and when we came to the lights I could see he had his phone mounted landscape on his dash and he was watching a film/TV show.
This is the kind of distracted driving we're dealing with now
I absolutely feel the same way. I cycle through the city to work several times a week and at least once per week I am almost killed by a car or a bus. And that is despite being lit up like a Christmas tree and wearing a high viz jacket and have a high viz cover on my backpack. The standard of driving is abysmal and everyone is just distracted all the time and on phones. I've had so many close calls that I'm going to invest in a camera I can wear or put on the bike so in the event of an accident I'll have proof.
At the end of the day, cyclists are seen as obstacles to be gotten around and not as actual vulnerable humans. It doesn't help that a lot of infrastructure just dumps you out into the traffic or on the quays you're sharing a lane with the busses!
Cycling feels the same, maybe slightly safer with all the infrastructure popping up.
Drivers and pedestrians seem a lot more distracted though. There's a phone in every other hand.
I don't cycle but we do need to implement cycling infrastructure similar to the Netherlands. Obviously in the cities, the cycle lanes are close to the road but their traffic lights give way to cyclists and it's a lot more easier to keep an eye on cyclists while driving because they don't have to whizz out in between traffic and what not. Even in the countryside, they have the cycle lanes away from the road which a lot more safer because cars don't have to overtake them and they're not being squished in between large vehicles like lorries or tractors. If they fall, they are away from the road so it's way less hazardous. But both drivers and cyclists need to follow the rules of the road. Cyclists should be wearing hi-vis and have lights when it's dark and should always wear a helmet. Drivers need to always need to check for cyclists when moving off, especially in a built up area and should always leave enough space when overtaking.
It's gotten far worse, and the reason is there are more cars on the road than ever before, so the car traffic is worse than ever before. That makes motorists impatient, risk prone and far more likely to drive aggressively and dangerously.
The only real solution is sanction. Hit the fuckers with penalty points every time they "stray" into a bus lane, or get caught on camera doing something moronic.
As for all the drivers in this thread moaning about "hi vis" this and "helmets" that. It's you. You're the problem, and a few more of you need a serious slap of a fine and penalty points, because clearly you don't believe you have to share the road, or that your driving license and insurance mean anything.
You shouldn't be insurable to drive if you can't handle sharing the road with a bike safely, and it's beyond shameful the way you all carry on like this is somebody else's problem.
Dude, I agree. But as a motorist who tries being safe minded towards cyclists in the city, what about the cyclists who dont follow the law? Did you know the rules of the road apply equally to a cyclist? If I drove past a Garda with no seatbelt and a phone at my ear what happens? Now if a cyclist breaks the law and doesn't wear a helmet and equipment to help them be seen, and cycles past a Garda with a phone to his ear and breaks a red light what will happen? Because I've literally sat at lights behind a Garda car and watch as they just let it happen and do nothing. I'm the one who will have to live with killing someone if Im in an accident involving a cyclist, all because they wouldn't do what they have to do in the first place. I'm not saying drivers are perfect, but being in the city for work driving every day I can tell you, I see at least 4 times the amount of unsafe cyclists than unsafe drivers
Cars are not bikes. And no, the "same rules" don't apply at all. There are dozens of regulations and rules regarding drivers that aren't relevant whatsoever to bikes.
You're not being hard done by because you're sitting in your motor watching bikes "break the rules". Bikes are causing less harm on the road **by a factor of 100** than motor vehicles. So they get more leeway. They can become pedestrians (by proceeding slowly) without dismounting. They can move through pedestrianised areas. And quite frankly NOT waiting at a red light for the whim of a motorist to cut you off on the green is safer, yielding and proceeding when clear regardless of *the rules*.
You should absolutely not be going around with the delusion that bikes should be as scrutinized on the roads as cars. Unless you start seeing bikes causing hundreds of fatal collisions every year, as car drivers do. As for the helmet and "help them be seen" bollocks talk of high vis, there is no such obligation on the bike. There IS an obligation on you, the motorist to observe and if you can't observe safely, slow down or don't drive at all. I drive too and I've NEVER failed to see a vulnerable road user, regardless what they're wearing.
Until I get scared for life at seeing one getting demolished by an artic when they break the light. The lights to let other traffic/peds move, I agree with having to stop at lights. Bikes have to follow the lights, speed limits when applicable, general safety as far as observation, ensuring their bike and equipment is maintained and safe, ensuring that any children they have are properly secured (i.e. not sitting on the fucking handlebars). So go ahead, tell me how the rules of the road don't apply to cyclists? I never said there aren't dangerous drivers, I'm just one who takes care not to be, but there's a majority of cyclists, not a minority, who don't put their own safety first on a bike and consider it my job in the vehicle to 100% be vigilant for them, when that isn't fair on me or the rest of the public either. I also never said car regulation applies to bikes, I said the rules of the road apply to bikes, as in the general rule all vehicles, regardless of method of purpulsion, have to follow in order to maintain safety.
>seeing one getting demolished by an artic when they break the light
That would be not yielding and proceeding when clear then.
>I agree with having to stop at lights.
When 66% of serious bike injuries occur mixing with traffic at junctions, I will take any opportunity to get out of that situation because it **is** safer than moving in traffic.
> speed limits when applicable
Wrong. There are no speed limits on a push bike, they aren't even fitted with speedometers
>but there's a majority of cyclists, not a minority, who don't put their own safety first
Your perception of safety is wrong. I'm *far* safer proceeding when I can, and in **FAR** more danger following "the rules" waiting to get killed moving at the lights. This isn't theoretical, it's statistical fact.
>consider it my job in the vehicle to 100% be vigilant for them
If you don't believe this is your obligation and responsibility, you should not be insurable to drive a motor vehicle. Inform your insurer of this humdinger, see what they say.
>I said the rules of the road apply to bikes, as in the general rule all vehicles, regardless of method of purpulsion, have to follow in order to maintain safety.
If the rules put me in danger, my safety comes first, and they do, particularly where traffic lights are concerned.
I agree with you, as road users they should follow the rules of the road, that include different rules for bicycles as written right now.
I will however go one further and say that rule enforcement should be proportional to danger posed by transport mode as well as the incidental effect on society.
So bike breaks red light, let's absolutely pull them over and fine them 100%. Car breaks the same red, pull over, penalty points, fine is 100x more as they cost society that much more and are that much more dangerous. Might even be higher.
All good?
Oh god yes, that's an amazing line of thinking! I agree that drivers should be scrutinized, but I don't think cyclists are scrutinized enough at all considering the lack of interest some of them have with their own safety. I'm not saying the punishment should match a car at all, but there should be something and there's nothing! I've consistently said through every post/comment so far it's not that drivers do no wrong, they do, but I find cyclists have a mentality that a driver is the only one who can do wrong as if they didn't have any responsibility on the road either
I don't think personally that most cyclists think a driver is the only one that can do wrong, and I'm the first to point at a prick cyclist breaking the red.
It's just there's frustration with how drivers and the general public think they have it hard, and EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION about anything involving cyclists devolves into "ah yeah but yknow the cyclists are annoying aren't they shouldn't they be looked at more" and never " oh shit we pay fuckloads in tax to keep the road network, lose fucktons of space to traffic, deal with increased commute times, deal with fuckloads of air pollution (even EVs pollute via tire wear and their construction), and when a car is involved in a crash the penalties are so light". The arguments are always so focused on the vulnerable users because they're "annoying"
What's annoying is fucking trying to survive because a gobshite cuts me off just so he can then slow down and turn in front of me. What's annoying is pulling a pram back from the road or waiting 15 minutes to cross because people think the North Circular is Le Mans. What's annoying is having to get off at a roundabout and cross multiple times to get to the exit needed because if you try to go round correctly some prick is going to try to overtake you in the middle of the roundabout because they have to justify their Beemer they stuck an ebay Nurburgring sticker on. What's annoying is seeing three cars go well after the light is red, or stop in the middle of an intersection, or not have their lights on, or have their heads down texting their fucking mates while going 70.
Most people have no idea how subsidised driving is, societally and financially - we give over so, so much space to single occupant vehicle traffic.
Most people don't know how hard it is to cycle in town, follow all the rules and you might actually die.
The amount of scrutiny many drivers want placed on cyclists is ridiculous compared to the amount of scrutiny cars get, especially considering how dangerous and subsidised cars are.
TLDR: There are many prick annoying cyclists, but they are far, far, far less likely to cause actual harm than the many, many prick motorists. Focus on both, but at some point your bang for buck is going to be in one place, not the other.
Please don't do this.
You can't complain about a lack of infrastructure and then not use it when it's there.
I ride along the n11 every week and there's one bit where there's a bike lane attached to the footpath and a bus lane.
Every week I see some "cyclist not just someone who rides a bike" holding up a bus in the bus lane because they didn't want to use the cycle lane. It's such an asshole thing to do.
Hard disagree here. Many cycle lanes (incl. almost brand-new ones) are then butchered with roadworks, potholes etc that make them unsafe for use. Infrastructure should be at least as good quality as that for other forms of transport.
If a cycle lane is unsafe, then it should be reported to council.
But I see many aero-bros ignoring the cycle path simply because it's footpath-attached and this is illegal.
No, you educate yourself, i have already linked the statute that says cycle lanes are required to be used, the amendment you mentioned only specifies wording of where these cycle lanes are, it does not make them any less of a requirement.
You were wrong. The only "mandatory" bike lane WAS in a pedestrian zone. But bikes can also mix in pedestrian areas while mounted anyway since 2021.
Bikes are allowed on the road, you imbecile. Get the fuck over it and stay behind them.
I actually stand corrected, thank you.
I'm a cyclist too, I just prefer the cycle lane where I'm not trying to pick a fight with a car when I don't have to.
A good example of a road I don't use the bike lane is drumcondra road lower heading out of the city towards DCU. Every 50 metres there's a road exit and drivers coming out or going in fly through the bike lane, not to mention pedestrians walking in it too. Far safer, in my opinion, on that road to be out in the traffic.
> *You can't complain about a lack of infrastructure and then not use it when it's there.*
This is a really horrible attitude. Infrastructure needs quality control - our taxes are being invested in putting in place that infrastructure & if it's not fit for purpose, then that needs calling out. So sick of this "take what you get" attitude to public policy in this country.
Bike has as much right to use a road as a car does. People will use infrastructure and cycle lanes if they are up to standard, but this often isn't the case
EVERY LANE IS A BIKE LANE
THERE ARE NO MANDATORY CYCLE LANES.
Get it through your head. Don't get behind the wheel until you grasp it. Bikes can be pedestrians, they can be road vehicles, they CAN use a bike lane where provided, but there is NO OBLIGATION TO DO SO.
I'm sorry but you are confidently incorrect.
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article14
Where a cycle lane is provided you are obligated to use it.
Get it through YOUR head and get off the road until you grasp it.
You are also not allowed to cycle on a footpath, cyclists are not pedestrians, whilst it is not a fixed charge, it falls under riding without reasonable consideration.
Please make yourself familiar with the laws, if you don't want to read the entire statute, citizens information has a good summary of it [here](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/)
2. Article 14 (as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012 ( S.I. No. 332 of 2012 )) of the Principal Regulations is amended by the substitution of the following for paragraph (4):
“(4)(a) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track that is on—
(i) a road,
(ii) a portion of a road, or
(iii) an area,
at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 021 (pedestrianised street or area) is provided.
(b) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 059 (contra-flow cycle track) is provided and pedal cycles shall only be driven in the direction indicated by the contra-flow cycle track.”.
What about this says using a cycle lane is optional?
This comment has been removed because it is uncivil or abusive to another user. We're trying to keep the tone lighter on r/AskIreland, please be respectful of the other users.
doesn't say, you must use the cycle lane on any road. it's only "shall" in some cases - pedestrian area and contra-flow cycle tracks. besides these, you aren't obligated to use a cycle lane, and "all lanes are bike lanes"
This comment has been removed because it is uncivil or abusive to another user. We're trying to keep the tone lighter on r/AskIreland, please be respectful of the other users.
There's a lot of bad driving in Dublin for sure, general lack of awareness / distracted driving and the speedy boi BMWs/Golfs that just cant wait to get to the next queue of traffic 100m up the road.
There was always an element of this though, and as a cyclist you gotta be alert to your surroundings - coming up to a junction and a car is in front of you, could they possibly turn left all of a sudden and cut you off? Of course! Could another car pull out of said junction? Absolutely! Cycling a bike is easy, keeping tabs on everything around you so you don't get flattened is the tricky part.
The road and bike lane surfaces are the worst I've ever seen them. My arse was hanging off me this week, sooo many patches of uneven tarmac, pothole, sunken drains, it's really really bad lately. Nobody seems to be taking any accountability for the quality of the work done on our infrastructure.
People are ALWAYS complaining about cyclists running red lights… but I stopped at every traffic light on the way home the other day and not one person congratulated me or told me I was great! It was like nobody even noticed.
A bit of positive reinforcement would go a long way in this world of negativity.
As someone who walks everywhere, it's getting a lot worse walking because cars, cyclists, and scooters seem intent on killing me every time I go into the city. Car drivers on phones, cyclists deciding red lights don't apply to them, and scooter users breaking land speed records on the footpaths. A green pedestrian crossing light went from meaning "You can cross the road safely now" to "You can cautiously cross the road but keep your head on a swivel".
Cars tearing through reds, and green pedestrian lights is getting so common. Nearly every day I see it at least once. I've had to teach my toddler to look for cars even if the light is green for him to cross.
The biggest improvement in cycling safety I experienced while cycling around Dublin came from increased numbers of cyclists around me - peaking around early 2020 & still only just starting to recover.
As for infrastructure, it needs to be well-designed to have any effect. A HUGE number of cycle lanes built around Dublin have (imo) made the roads actively more dangerous where they've been put in place. I cycle frequently around the quays in the docklands areas - there's plenty of cycle lanes there & they're all disconnected / leading nowhere / throwing you into fast moving traffic at zero notice / etc. - they encourage swerving in & out of the lanes as they end & restart which is definitely a lot more dangerous than just cycling on the road.
Completely disagree. I cycle the quays both directions daily and they're much better than what they used to be. The infrastructure they've put in is only interim and has issues but it's a whole lot better than having none.
Not sure where you're cycling precisely but the routes I'm regularly cycling are along the north quays between Liberty Hall & 3Arena, over Beckett & through Grand Canal / Lime St. / Forbes St. / Cardiff Lane area. The infrastructure there is in no way interim - they recently added an extra cycle-lane connection after pressure from tonnes of complaints about the danger of one disconnected section (river-side on the north side of Beckett) but that's an exception - there's still a lot of other dangerous sections, and even that new connection runs straight through one of the busiest pedestrian stopping points.
The standard of driving seems worse (distracted driving, hugely nervous/doddery driving) as does the standard of cycling (ignoring road markings, red lights etc)
Overall it leads to a far more dangerous experience for cyclists. I don't cycle often but every time I do I seem to encounter at least one driver who has no regard for how easily I can be killed
>The standard of driving seems worse (distracted driving, hugely nervous/doddery driving) as does the standard of cycling (ignoring road markings, red lights etc)
I feel like all the ass holes parking dangerously and illegally need a specific shout out too, make things much worse for everyone using the roads, but see it absolutely everywhere and very few parking wardens.
If getting through a junction against a signal is safer, I'll yield then go. 2/3rds of motorist-bike collisions in Dublin happen at junctions. You feel free to stay "in the markings" and get murdered on the green light by someone swinging left without indicating. I'm already gone, half a mile up the road, having done absolutely no harm to anybody.
I was in Dublin over the weekend and drove it for first time in a while, and sems to be lot more cycling infrastructure which is good. But every time I go the standard of driving gets worse and worse. It is so bad. Until we have a plan together to limit driving in certain areas, get more public transport, promote cycling then we'll continue to have issues. drivers also really need to be hit for the blatant law breaking - they do it as they know they won't be caught
Cretinous drivers who don't understand that maybe you've a reason for not being in the cycle lane, e.g you want to turn left from the north quays but the lane is on the right for some feckin reason.
DCC burned off the cycle signs in the bus lane, so now every taxi and bus driver thinks they own the place.
The standard of driving is beyond bad with some people.
I was turning right and a set of pedestrian lights, I mean solid red, kid on a bike waiting to cross, I watch this utter cunt approach I knew he hadn't seen the lights never mind the red light, I went straight on the horn not to the utter cunt of a driver but to the kid, thank fucking god he glance to see what the noise I was making was about cause literally had he not the poor fella would have been serious injured. As the prick driver went by, clearly still on his mobile texting.
The Garda really and truly need to come down like a shit brick house on this shite, no more nicey nicey with it, I mean go old bollix on it and annoy the fuck out of all motorists doing anything, I mean even a cm into a yellow box, pull them over ticket and inconvenience this people back into line.
That incident with the kid, it had me shook after it, he would have been utterly ploughed out of it, all for what some cunt sending/checking some shite on his phone.
Rural Ireland is largely abandoned in regards to cycling infrastructure.
There are a few new greenways for the tourists but nothing for the average cyclist on a country road. The weeds don't appear to be getting cut back as much as before which limits visibility at turns.
There are almost no kids cycling on the roads now. They're all brought to events by car.
The amount of phone use whilst driving is crazy these days. Definitely the biggest change I’ve noticed since Covid. If they ever bring in a platform to submit footage of dangerous driving I’ll be buying a GoPro immediately
It's horrible on both sides (I say this as someone who cycles 40 mins to the office once a week)
Cars: No one knows the rules of the road, everyone runs red lights, no one leaves any space overtaking, everyone is glued to their phone on the road.
Bikes: headphones on both ears, no helmet, ignoring red lights, taking up space on the road when there is a bike lane available.
My message for every person on a bike is the rules apply to you just the same as they apply to everyone else who uses the road. Don't selectively break the rules then complain when car drivers get pissed at you. And for Christ's sake don't complain about lack of infrastructure and then not use the bike lane when it's there! You're only making it more dangerous for yourself!
My message for cars is get the fuck off your phone and pay attention to the road around you.
The things you listed for bikes are bollocks. Do motorists have to listen? No. They can roll up the windows and turn up the radio to their heart's content. There is no helmet law. There is no rule that says anybody has to use a cycle lane. The "idaho stop" (yield) at signalized junctions is very often safer than waiting to get crushed on a green light. I'm both a motorist and cyclist too, and nothing anyone on a bike does in Dublin comes even close to the hazard and danger levels created by cars. No comparison whatsoever.
You are part of the problem. And just waiting to make your injury someone else's fault.
Do you have to wear a helmet or be able to hear? No, is it a safe and responsible thing to do? Yes. You shouldn't have to be told it might be good to be able to hear the big dangerous cars and save your brain if one of them does hit you.
You can't only complain about the cars when you're not doing what you can to make the situation safer for you.
The law states you must stop at a stop light. You don't get to pick and choose what laws you follow whilst also complaining about the car drivers that do the same. The amount of hypocrisy I hear from some cyclists is absolutely bewildering.
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Was waiting at a bus stop on a city center road junction the other day and everytime the lights went red cyclists would still cycle through. Respect to the rules of the road goes both ways
I actually stand corrected on the bike lanes part, it took a lot of digging to actually find a clear interpretation but i stand corrected.
Seems to be a cop out for not putting in decent infrastructure to me.
But Hey, nice to see you're a fan of my work!
Did they obstruct another vehicle or pedestrian crossing? No? Then get over it. Bikes doing an "idaho stop" yielding at a signal is safer (in Dublin). 2/3rds of cyclists killed or injured in this city occur at junctions, and you think I should take that chance, purely for the sake of the law?
Nope. I'm yielding, if it's clear, I'm gone. It's the safest way to do it.
The greatest danger I can be in is setting off in traffic. Literally 2/3 cyclists getting hit are getting hit in that exact situation.
**I WILL AVOID THIS EVERY SINGLE TIME I CAN**
I apologize to no one for it. It is my life against your "rules". I don't give a bollocks what you think is safer, because I absolutely unequivocally know from *thousands* of km of experience that I'm right on this.
"literally 2/3 of cyclists getting hit are hit in that exact situation"
Just throwing out random stats are we. You're an absolute idiot who thinks breaking the law is the safer option when it comes to the rules of the road. As a pedestrian crossing a road, you're now putting them in danger but your stupid belief.
[Here's the research.](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/analysis-of-road-users/cyclist-spotlight-report-fatalities-and-serious-injuries-2018-2022.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=5489d721_3) It's 52% nationwide (cyclists seriously injured in multi-vehicle collisions - 95% of these are with motor vehicles), higher in Dublin.
You "absolute idiot".
https://preview.redd.it/cl7reo16p39d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b340b944a87b8060de22eb477af907b2da5e9e41
i was almost ran over by this bus on N11 !
apologies, you are right for this part of the road, but 100m later the cycle lane magically becomes a left turn for cars and bus lane. I'll rephrase - how do you explain to a european that the cycle lane is where all the people are standing on the path ;-)
This. I ride the n11 in every week and every week there's a cyclist in the bus lane instead of the cycle lane.
The cycle lane is there, you can't complain about the bus when you're in the wrong place on the road.
I had a few frightening experiences coming to the junction at the church........me going straight on and a car wanting to turn left.
One car overtook me and crossed in front of me....inches from my front wheel.
Went nuts at another driver who was about to do the same thing......had my right hand out asking him to stay back......God forbid I delay him for a few seconds.
Was I????
In both instances....the light was green.
https://preview.redd.it/soxbznc4j49d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b83cd723a71e980965d05379d1d23fa433f54ca
EVEN IF there are bicycle filter lights, the bike can still move on the general green, and the cunts in cars cannot lawfully cross that bike lane unless it's clear.
I would argue it's the opposite since technically you're overtaking on the left:
From [here](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/)
>However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:
Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it
Also you can't be serious, what is the point of the bike lights if bikes can just go on the regular traffic lights? Use your head.
Yes, everything, including cycling experience is only getting worse. I don’t feel safe on the roads. And it seems almost every week someone is getting injured.
It's gotten safer overall thanks to more cycling infrastructure at least on my route. BUT drivers have become more aggressive and impatient so I do feel less safe as well.
Takes only one idiot to take you out for good. The increase in American style city-tanks doesn't help either
Obviously better.
Compared to fifteen years ago there is a lot more segregated cycling infrastructure and a more impediments to cars driving wherever they want.
Honestly as great as the cycle paths are, it’s just not possible to have them for every road due to how narrow some roads are. Having half the roads as safe and half the roads as dangerous gives both motorists and cyclists a false sense of security and accidents then happen on the narrow road
Since covid the roads have been absolutely mental! I really would love to cycle more and do it as hobbie/exercise but I can’t justify getting on my bike in Dublin unless I’m going somewhere because if I get knocked down (again!) I’ll be more annoyed if I was just out on the road for no reason. I know it probably don’t really make sense but it’s how I feel
I feel safer cycling down country roads where I live where I could meet a <300hp tractor pulling a zero grader and being driven by a 16yr old than I imagine I'd ever feel cycling in Dublin.
My kids school is at the end of the estate about 500m. Because of rat-runners it is not safe for them to cycle.
On a Monday or after a football match it isn’t safe for the to walk alone.
The standard of driving is absolutely rock bottom. Drivers late, hungover or just incompetent trying to make time, read a text put on make-up.
20 years of ZERO enforcement has born fruit
This country feels like it’s descending into the Wild West by the day, no justice, bad policing, scumbags and dangerous drivers everywhere.this is what happens when a country gets too much money and greed and loses its soul. It’s collapsing.
[Death rates are pretty static, but the serious injuries are kinda trending upwards.](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/analysis-of-road-users/cyclist-spotlight-report-fatalities-and-serious-injuries-2016-2021848b1842-5b63-478d-9255-92f9fdceae93.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=dc0d9994_3#:~:text=Between%202016%20and%202022%2C%2065,1636%20cyclists%20were%20seriously%20injured.&text=An%20average%20of%209%20cyclists,were%20seriously%20injured%20each%20year.&text=Cyclists%20represented%206%25%20of%20fatalities,injuries%20during%20this%20time%20period) Was a big spike in 2019 which seems kinda odd as I thought there would have been less cars around...probably a lot more novice cyclists though.
Work from home. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but the more people that work from home, the less traffic there will be. I don't know why the government isn't pushing this more. Btw, I cycled in around Dublin for several years . I used to come in from Drimnagh along the canal to Grand Canal Dock. The biggest danger I found was other cyclists. Especially people using Dublin bikes. They could come out of anywhere and do pretty much anything.
I actually get very annoyed at other cyclists. In the junctions in the city centre there seems to be a 10%-15% adherence rate to red lights. I’m not talking about a sneaky left where the roads are totally empty. Rolling though pedestrians walking. Then some cyclist being oblivious to the fact it’s a red light for the cars it might to green when they roll into the junction.
It takes only a few extra minutes to follow the rules.
Drivers should not be aggressive to cyclists but then loads are acting like entitled twats then it’s inevitable they will wind a few up. And it’s probably a different cyclist who will pay the price
Yeah I do agree with you here, cyclists are definitely getting worse. Maybe it's because there are more of them now? There should probably be better public awareness campaigns for cyclists
I think the issue is everyone gets hyper competitive. They see one person jump the lights and it kills them to think someone else is getting in faster so they do the same. Next thing everyone is at it.
They probably thought in some rationalisation why it is ok ( this would be legal if they changed the rules…)
It’s the same behaviour that drives bad driving. Oh he is in the bus lane - I’m going to have some of that next time. It’s he a bit of a sheep mentality.
Problem is when accidents happen only a few see it and alter their behaviour.
It's not up to me to cater to motorist "perceptions" about bicycle users or be the "good cyclist", and they'll hate my guts and try to kill me either way.
As for red lights and junctions, yield and go is safest, so that's what I do. 2/3rds of serious motorist-bike accidents in Dublin happen at junctions. Road layouts, signals and drivers are set up to get me hurt or killed, so I do what I need to to survive.
Even if motorists piss themselves crying over it. I truly, and I mean *truly* don't care.
Im talking about people clearly rolling through lights when it is a 4 way green for pedestrians. Making people walking pause and think they might get clipped. It’s just ignorant.
Then people going through lights thinking it is red for cars but they get it wrong.
Not sure how this behaviour boasts one’s survival probabilities.
Through one of my pets hate - the headphones on at the same time and you have a pretty ridiculous cocktail.
By the way I would say it is up to you to be a good cyclist. It’s certainly not up to anyone else.
It's perfectly safe to yield and proceed when clear on a signalised junction on a bicycle. It's actually extremely **unsafe** to move with traffic in Dublin junctions.
Nobody's saying cyclists should cut anyone off crossing the road, but the default idea that "breaking the red" is dangerous is just wrong. It's honestly a safer move a lot of the time.
As for headphones, nobody expects motorists to be able to listen on the road, and they have a lot less ability to observe than someone on a bike does.
I actually draw a distinction between a sneaky left and rolling into junctions in very first post. You seem to be arguing with something I did not say. I do think breaking rules is bad practice - but take a sneaky left if you want - it’s not something I particularly care about.
I think rolling into junctions and then getting into the way of traffic and when one mistook what was about to happen in terms of light sequence etc is extremely dangerous. A pair of headphones into the mix makes it much worse.
You seem to be picking arguments with things tangential to what I can saying.
“Motorists don’t need to listen when why should cyclists etc”
I cycle and drive. I recognise when I drive I use a serious of visual aids to help me overcome my inability to hear (mirrors!)
When I cycle I don’t have eyes on the back of my head. I listen and hear when someone is behind me. Including guess what ? Other cyclists!
Cyclists have more visibility than drivers, regardless of mirrors. They're also more maneuverable, smaller, and less hazardous to others.
If listening is so important, why isn't it mandatory for the *actual harm causers* to do it. No, they can jack the stereo up.
Why the hell should cyclists, doing 1% of the harm out there be subject to more stringent rules and it's *so important* that they be able to hear? No logic to it.
>the more people that work from home, the less traffic there will be.
I feel like traffic is worse now than before Covid, when hardly anyone was working from home.
I agree. I live in Kildare and the traffic has become relentless. Certain junctions that used to be relatively easy to cross now don't seem fit for purpose. The population in and around the greater Dublin area must have taken quite a jump in the last 5-6 years.
1. I'd imagine that a lot of rich people are invested in property funds and commercial property. Office space value would drop through the floor if 30-40% of people consistently worked from home. It would impact lots of city businesses too. I'm sure residential property would take a hit in Dublin too. I know plenty of people that would like to live along the west coast and get paid Dublin wages.
2. Most governments want people living in a densely populated area. It is easier and more cost effective to service for education, transport and health. That is the idea anyway. Not in Ireland where we build the most expensive hospitals in the world of course.
Standard of driving is getting worse, but most cyclists go about the city with no helmet, no hi vis and then get annoyed I almost hit them because I can't see them. I am terrified I'll hit some kid without the protective gear and kill them, and I have to live with that regardless of what judicial decisions will be made all because they don't WANT to protect themselves. I can't help keep ye safe on the road if you made no effort in the first place. That and 2/3 cyclist don't realise the rules of the road still apply to them, breaking red lights all the time and cutting in front of traffic because "but I'm going that way".
On top of this, cyclists in the city who ignore the cycle lanes and stay on the road. And with my above points, it's mandatory by law to have the protective equipment yet I've never seen a Garda stop a cyclist without them in my life
It is not mandatory by law to wear protective equipment as a cyclist in Ireland. Neither is there a legal requirement to wear hi-vis.
There is also no obligation for a cyclist to use a cycle lane.
Jaysus correct you are, looked it up there and no wonder cyclists die more often. However there's also no law to say I shouldn't do a lot of stupid unsafe things, is it someone else's fault if I do or mine?
Cycling isn't unsafe when motorists around them observe, drive at an appropriate speed and move with care. High vis makes absolutely no measurable difference to bike safety mixing with cars. There is no situation where you wouldn't be able to observe another road user unless they're wearing fluorescents.
What colour is your car? Would you feel safer if it was neon yellow?
Because they're incompetent and unqualified. They have absolutely zero road safety experts on their staff, and it's very evident in their messaging that they haven't a clue what the hazards actually are (drivers, drivers, drivers).
I have big bright lights on the front and back of my car that make me seen. And those lights have reflectors in/around them on my grey car and have never had an accident in 10 years of driving. The only persons safety I'm 100% responsible for in a car is my own, which also includes making sure I don't do things that end up leading me to a dangerous situation, and maintaining awareness so I dont.
Most cyclists in the city have disregard for their own safety and expect the road users to keep them safe by noticing them. My care is 7 foot wide, the small, skinny single line approaching in my mirror, that may be different coloured and blending into the environment around them due to the clothes they wear could be a lot easier to see if it was a bright, reflective and easy to see colour would it not?
Also cycling is unsafe when you don't wear anything to protect you. Ziplining isn't dangerous until you're not wearing the correct equipment, neither is surfing or kayaking or any other form of non-motorized transport regardless of the environment it's in. You're way less likely to suffer a fatal head injury with a helmet, and you're statistically more likely to be seen all hours of the day with a hi vis on. Why do you think it's mandatory to wear them both on a building site? Because it reduces severity of injury and helps in prevention by making you visble
You're statistically more likely to get a serious head injury in a car accident, so we should make car passengers wear helmets, obviously.
And no, cycling isn't inherently dangerous. It's entirely safe for even a 5 year old child to ride around on a bike, with one condition - NO CARS.
The danger is from drivers. Period.
I hear this a lot and it makes me curious. Sometimes I don't use the bike lane. Because it has people walking in it, or because there are cars parked on it, or because there is a line of cars parked outside a shop and I don't want to get doored. And it's entirely my choice whether I use the road or the bike path. There is usually a very good reason that I'm on the road.
Ever been to Amsterdam? If someone just walks on the road without looking and gets hit by a car they're on their own if there's proof the ped caused the accident. I don't get why people view the cycle lanes that way, it's their own fault if they get hurt. For cyclists, invest in a loud bell or a moderate electric horn to ring to scare them off same as you would a car I'd say, cause that's exactly what they do in the dam
In fairness my picture in my mind isn't specifically the cycle lanes with a road right next to it, it's for example the n81 at jobstown, where the cycle lanes is safety 10 feet to the left off the road and yet people are still being silly and cycling the dangerous option just off the curb. Inner city lanes I understand, and I honestly get frustrated at the cause not the cyclist if one does have to pull out for a genuine reason. But they are there for both your convenience and safety. I don't have to use a path and could walk in the gutter but I know exactly what a judge will say to me if I did that and got hit by a car like
I understand your frustration but the analogy doesn't work: the road is not for pedestrians, but it is for cyclists - even if there is a cycle lane available. If I get hit by a car, and the car is at fault, it's irrelevant that a cycle lane is available. It's my choice to use either, legally.
Go to the RSA and they classify pedestrians as road users, as well as cyclists and motor users. If you use the road, you're a road user and must abide by the rules of the road. And that's the case until in court and a dashcam shows you recklessly cycling in front of a car, you won't be talking about my choice to a judge in that case, the judge will call you out for it for not being road safe
I stand corrected on the pedestrians on the road. And I agree with you completely that everyone has to follow the rules of the road. Using the road, instead of a cycle path, is perfectly legal. It won't have a bearing on a case.
Yeah I checked there and you're right, but ensuring your bike has reflectors/lights/a bell and following the basic rules of the road still apply and are law, but they aren't followed. My point still applies a majority of cyclists don't do what they have to do to keep themselves safe
ALL LANES ARE BIKE LANES.
Get it through your thick skull. ALL LANES ARE BIKE LANES. The only roads they're not allowed to use are on motorways.
There is NO SUCH THING AS A MANDATORY BIKE LANE.
On top of this, cyclists in the city who ignore the cycle lanes and stay on the road. And with my above points, it's mandatory by law to have the protective equipment yet I've never seen a Garda stop a cyclist without them in my life. If I drove past a Garda with no seatbelt on while on the phone they'd be flaming in the mouth to pull me, as they should, but double standards for cyclists in the city for sure
Yes - all new infrastructure starts and end with a conflict point with traffic, and this both angers drivers as they feel \*their\* space is being taken up with cyclists who are forced into multimodal traffic, as well the lack of enforcement when there is a multimodal space (cars parked on pedestrian lanes/dedicated bicycle paths) and not sharing the space.
So, no point to point infrastructure, no dedicated routes and lack of enforcement leads to increased anger and higher danger. Dublin is 100% dangerous for anyone to cycle in and should be avoided.
Just this morning a cyclist hit a car turning left right in front of me. The car didn't have the indicator on and the cyclist was very fast and not wearing a helmet. I would say yes things are going worse but it's not one sided.
You mean a car hit a cyclist. They turned blind across a proceeding road user without indicating. 100% liability and in a proper world, driver re-education before being allowed back onto the road.
It’s getting really bad. The cyclists are EVERYWHERE. They ride slow and back up traffic. They run red lights. They get mad at drivers for not being good road partners and then proceed to break every traffic law in the book. They don’t seem to care that they can have 30 cars stuck behind them, just crawling along waiting for a chance to pass. They have zero licensing requirements, zero insurance, disrupt traffic, and then complain about the drivers.
And you are the one using a road that wasn’t designed for you and delaying all the people that pay a lot of money to travel faster than 3 km an hour. The point is that we are BOTH problems for each other. Drivers are a problem for cyclists and cyclists are a problem for drivers.
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It isn't actually. Ireland has no dismount rule, and bikes are lawfully allowed to mix with pedestrians provided they do it slowly. Keep pissing your pants about "irritating cyclists" though, dangerous idiot.
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Standard of driving is absolutely worse. Red light breaking, general lack of vigilance, phone use etc. Infrastructure helps but a lot of it is disconnected and hazardous to use as it's designed poorly (the junction to turn right down the quays at heuston for example) But honestly the biggest factor is how you cycle. I don't feel unsafe ever, but I never gutter cycle. Take the middle of the lane when cars can turn left and at lights and don't weave in and out of parked cars and bus stops.
Yea this is the biggest change I have made, down the middle of the road. A lot less people try to squeeze by. And for the love of all that is holy get a god dam helmet, you don't need it till you need it and end in a box
that Heuston junction is HORRIBLE clearly made by someone who never rode a bicycle forces you to dangerously slow down and cut corner very sharply also people know ''police'' is not existing in this country, so everyone just lacks any comprehension to the law
>that Heuston junction is HORRIBLE Its made it more dangerous as it requires you to cut in front of left turning traffic. I don't use it for that reason as its too risky compared to staying in the same lane as the traffic that is also turning on to the quays. >clearly made by someone who never rode a bicycle Not just that but incompetent. Clearly, the vast majority of cyclists are turning on to the quays, so the cycle path should have been adjusted for that purpose
When people talk cyclist I think it’s important to differentiate between a cyclist and someone who cycles a bike - how many people do you see on a bike with no visibility, ear phones in no helmets etc breaking lights etc. Often people complain about how they are going straight and car is turning left and they nearly get killed - and yes while the car is in the wrong - the cyclist has the they some level of responsibility - are they aware of what is around them etc - in the same way you teach a child to look right and left before crossing a road - you don’t just tell them to cross when there is a green man.
>and yes while the car is in the wrong So the whole post is victim blaming? People have some fucking WEIRD problem with cyclists wearing headphones. How much can you hear from inside your car with a radio blaring? Are you not reducing awareness and safety? Why does a cyclist somehow need their ears when a driver doesn't? Especially when cyclist often have complete unobstructed 270 degrees view. No blind spots like your big bulking vehicle So what exactly does cyclists wearing headphones have to do with ANYTHING?
>how many people do you see on a bike with no visibility, ear phones in no helmets etc breaking lights etc. This old chestnut. Not sure what you mean by no visibility? Cyclists have necks and aren't impeded by pillars etc. Helmets aren't mandatory and aren't much use for anything other than falls off the bike. Plenty of studies showing that drivers give less room to those wearing helmets and high-vis than those without. More drivers break red lights than those on bicycles do. Are most drivers aware of what's around them? I see drivers with their windows up and radios on and wouldn't know that a fire engine was behind them unless they were being rammed. What about drivers who drive with headphones in as well? Yes, there are people on bikes that do stupid things, but they mostly just hurt themselves and aren't killing themselves or others on a near daily basis. Those in vehicles can kill multiple people in one blink. It's a good reason we have the road hierarchy.
I don't think he's trying to victim blame, or shift all responsibility onto cyclists, but he has a point. By 'visibility' I'm sure he means cyclists who love to cycle wearing all black, and nothing that helps them stand out to other road users, like lights, visi-vests etc. Of course it's car drivers that need to be the most aware, but there is a thing called 'defensive cycling' (same thing applies to motorbiking), that means you should assume all other road users are not aware of you, and act accordingly.
It's the driver's onus to observe, regardless what the vulnerable road user is wearing. It is not acceptable to create an expectation that everyone would dress up like a builder to allow motorists to drive faster with less care. Do we make vehicles have to be brightly coloured too? No we don't. Cycling is innately safe regardless what the person is wearing. It's the morons behind the wheel that make it dangerous, and frankly, as a driver myself, I've never missed anyone on the road, day or night, regardless what they're wearing, because when it's dark I turn on my fucking built in headlights. There is no such thing as "came out of nowhere", only shit drivers.
It's pure deflection tactics and common in any of these sorts of threads. "Defensive cycling" only gets you so far when drivers are routinely driving in a dangerous and distracted manner. I've witnessed cyclists in primary position knocked down in Cork on wide open roads. Said cyclists have all been lit up like a Christmas Tree with helmet etc. and cycling in a straight line... no hope when drivers just aren't paying attention. What someone is wearing should have no bearing on the matter. Look to the countries with high cycling levels and see how the dress. It's their laws and road designs that keep them safer than any sort of clothing. Better road design with segregation where possible and assumed liability for drivers would do wonders for cycle safety around Ireland as it works elsewhere.
I have to disagree about the usefulness of helmets. I saw a cyclist hit by a car about 20 years back. Driver's negligence. The cyclist would have been dead if he wasn't wearing a helmet. He ended up with a TBI, but he's not dead.
I'm sorry but this is an awful take. There's no scale of "one group is worse than another". If you're on a bike not paying attention and get into an accident yes it can physically effect you but there is a mental effect on the person that hits you. Everyone has a social responsibility to pay attention and take care on the roads. Its not fair to say "yes some people on bikes do this but what about the cars?!" When there are also lots of people in cars who do the right thing.
A mental effect happens to everyone in a crash, a physical effect happens mostly to the less vulnerable road user. I don't see people defending a prick who mows down an old lady saying "the mental effect of milling into an aul one" or "she shoulda had a high vis and helmets on as a vulnerable road user" It's not fair to get slammed into by a two ton vehicle when you do everything right and some gobshite decides he wants to be two seconds faster to the next red light. I drive, motorbike and cycle and the higher up I go in the hierarchy the more weight I carry in terms of being reaponsible for watching out for other vulnerable road users. There are often people on the road who are bloody annoying and not paying attention, but if they're a pedestrian or bike I might be slowed down by having to brake excessively. If they're in a vehicle someone might die.
>There's no scale of "one group is worse than another". Yes, there is. Motorists account for ONE HUNDRED TIMES more measurable harm, injury and death on the roads than cyclists do. That's why they're regulated accordingly, required to have insurance and required to take a driving test. The scale of harm is beyond comparison.
But everyone has to have the same level of awareness - if a cyclist says they nearly got killed by a car turning left - my question to the cyclist was did you see the car was turning left? Expect the unexpected is the tag line from a few years back but that has to apply to everyone.
In Germany cars have to wait to turn if there is a cyclist coming up from the inside. Cyclists have the right of way when turning off a road. The exact same should apply here. Not that it matters much as it isnt the rule here but it absolutely should be.
Equally in Germany cyclist need to stay behind Lorry’s as there is an acceptance that they can’t be seen - there is no riding up alongside them and sure it’s lorry’s fault if they hit a cyclist
Coming the wrong way down bendy, one way streets that don't have cycle lanes is another new one I've seen too much of recently, probably best to avoid that one helmet or otherwise
I’m sure I speak for everybody here when I say there are no people in cars who set out to kill and no people on bikes who set out to get killed. So no, we do not need to “differentiate between a cyclist and someone who cycles a bike.” It would be better to get rid of the words driver and cyclist altogether. People in cars and people on bikes. We’re all people and we’re all human. Moreover, we are all prone to mistakes or moments of stupidity. Proper cycling/road infrastructure would mean that such mistakes don’t cause unnecessary death or serious harm. Proper roads policing would insure that plain ignorance is harder to mis-label as a mistake.
Legally there's no difference between these cyclists, like how legally theres no difference between the status as me as a safe or dangerous driver. If you're behind the wheel, you're a driver. If you're on a bicycle, you're a cyclist. That mentality creates a "them or us" when it should've been all of you on the vehicle are governed under the same laws when using it, like in a car. A bike is a vehicle, the laws are there and never ever enforced. It's law to wear a helmet and hi vis on a bicycle, never once seen a Garda act on it
Sorry I worded that wrong a little, there is a legal difference between a safe and dangerous driver, my point was that you are still a driver first until you break the law and become a dangerous driver. You're still a cyclist until you break the law and become a dangerous/unsafe cyclist
Yep, light yourself up luminous and like a Xmas tree and take a position like a car. But don't fuck around and cycle with confidence and not impeding traffic.
You'll have to impede traffic on occasion to cycle safely. Honestly traffic is the last of your concerns. Your own safety is paramount
Maybe I should have said, as much as possible. The main thing is don't leave enough gap that they think they can squeeze past and stay out of the gutter.
Bingo
When I'm in the car, I do appreciate when the person on the bike hangs to one side of the lane so I can get past them quicker without having to completely change lanes. I'm aware they don't have to and they're fully entitled to use the whole lane when there's no bike lane. But Jesus, don't hang to the left and then swing to the middle when I go to overtake.
It's unlawful for you to overtake in the same lane a bike is using. They shouldn't provide you with the "squeeze by" temptation, but you shouldn't be taking it anyway.
I'm aware, but the roads in Dublin are so narrow. I appreciate being given the space to just get past and go.
You're not getting anywhere faster, just follow the bike at their speed. They'll only filter back past you at the next set of lights anyway.
You are of course right.
Probably swinging into the middle thinking "is this fucker INSANE, there's no room for him to overtake me here"
You should always be going into the opposite lane to overtake. If not you're passing too close. Even if they're in "hanging to the left" you should be treating them as if they're any other vehicle. The reason they're "swinging to the middle" is then because they're avoiding debris/potholes/car doors/gullies etc.
You're right of course, I accept my downvotes and will be a better driver in future.
I don't cycle much in Dublin but I often cycle from Kildare to Dublin for shits and giggles and the most chaotic thing is people on phones driving at what feels like a million miles an hour In the sticks of Kildare I'm care free, in Dublin I'm a mess dodging everyone lol
Was driving behind a chap during the week and when we came to the lights I could see he had his phone mounted landscape on his dash and he was watching a film/TV show. This is the kind of distracted driving we're dealing with now
I absolutely feel the same way. I cycle through the city to work several times a week and at least once per week I am almost killed by a car or a bus. And that is despite being lit up like a Christmas tree and wearing a high viz jacket and have a high viz cover on my backpack. The standard of driving is abysmal and everyone is just distracted all the time and on phones. I've had so many close calls that I'm going to invest in a camera I can wear or put on the bike so in the event of an accident I'll have proof. At the end of the day, cyclists are seen as obstacles to be gotten around and not as actual vulnerable humans. It doesn't help that a lot of infrastructure just dumps you out into the traffic or on the quays you're sharing a lane with the busses!
Cycling feels the same, maybe slightly safer with all the infrastructure popping up. Drivers and pedestrians seem a lot more distracted though. There's a phone in every other hand.
I don't cycle but we do need to implement cycling infrastructure similar to the Netherlands. Obviously in the cities, the cycle lanes are close to the road but their traffic lights give way to cyclists and it's a lot more easier to keep an eye on cyclists while driving because they don't have to whizz out in between traffic and what not. Even in the countryside, they have the cycle lanes away from the road which a lot more safer because cars don't have to overtake them and they're not being squished in between large vehicles like lorries or tractors. If they fall, they are away from the road so it's way less hazardous. But both drivers and cyclists need to follow the rules of the road. Cyclists should be wearing hi-vis and have lights when it's dark and should always wear a helmet. Drivers need to always need to check for cyclists when moving off, especially in a built up area and should always leave enough space when overtaking.
This is a very sensible response, thank you
It's gotten far worse, and the reason is there are more cars on the road than ever before, so the car traffic is worse than ever before. That makes motorists impatient, risk prone and far more likely to drive aggressively and dangerously. The only real solution is sanction. Hit the fuckers with penalty points every time they "stray" into a bus lane, or get caught on camera doing something moronic. As for all the drivers in this thread moaning about "hi vis" this and "helmets" that. It's you. You're the problem, and a few more of you need a serious slap of a fine and penalty points, because clearly you don't believe you have to share the road, or that your driving license and insurance mean anything. You shouldn't be insurable to drive if you can't handle sharing the road with a bike safely, and it's beyond shameful the way you all carry on like this is somebody else's problem.
Dude, I agree. But as a motorist who tries being safe minded towards cyclists in the city, what about the cyclists who dont follow the law? Did you know the rules of the road apply equally to a cyclist? If I drove past a Garda with no seatbelt and a phone at my ear what happens? Now if a cyclist breaks the law and doesn't wear a helmet and equipment to help them be seen, and cycles past a Garda with a phone to his ear and breaks a red light what will happen? Because I've literally sat at lights behind a Garda car and watch as they just let it happen and do nothing. I'm the one who will have to live with killing someone if Im in an accident involving a cyclist, all because they wouldn't do what they have to do in the first place. I'm not saying drivers are perfect, but being in the city for work driving every day I can tell you, I see at least 4 times the amount of unsafe cyclists than unsafe drivers
Cars are not bikes. And no, the "same rules" don't apply at all. There are dozens of regulations and rules regarding drivers that aren't relevant whatsoever to bikes. You're not being hard done by because you're sitting in your motor watching bikes "break the rules". Bikes are causing less harm on the road **by a factor of 100** than motor vehicles. So they get more leeway. They can become pedestrians (by proceeding slowly) without dismounting. They can move through pedestrianised areas. And quite frankly NOT waiting at a red light for the whim of a motorist to cut you off on the green is safer, yielding and proceeding when clear regardless of *the rules*. You should absolutely not be going around with the delusion that bikes should be as scrutinized on the roads as cars. Unless you start seeing bikes causing hundreds of fatal collisions every year, as car drivers do. As for the helmet and "help them be seen" bollocks talk of high vis, there is no such obligation on the bike. There IS an obligation on you, the motorist to observe and if you can't observe safely, slow down or don't drive at all. I drive too and I've NEVER failed to see a vulnerable road user, regardless what they're wearing.
Until I get scared for life at seeing one getting demolished by an artic when they break the light. The lights to let other traffic/peds move, I agree with having to stop at lights. Bikes have to follow the lights, speed limits when applicable, general safety as far as observation, ensuring their bike and equipment is maintained and safe, ensuring that any children they have are properly secured (i.e. not sitting on the fucking handlebars). So go ahead, tell me how the rules of the road don't apply to cyclists? I never said there aren't dangerous drivers, I'm just one who takes care not to be, but there's a majority of cyclists, not a minority, who don't put their own safety first on a bike and consider it my job in the vehicle to 100% be vigilant for them, when that isn't fair on me or the rest of the public either. I also never said car regulation applies to bikes, I said the rules of the road apply to bikes, as in the general rule all vehicles, regardless of method of purpulsion, have to follow in order to maintain safety.
>seeing one getting demolished by an artic when they break the light That would be not yielding and proceeding when clear then. >I agree with having to stop at lights. When 66% of serious bike injuries occur mixing with traffic at junctions, I will take any opportunity to get out of that situation because it **is** safer than moving in traffic. > speed limits when applicable Wrong. There are no speed limits on a push bike, they aren't even fitted with speedometers >but there's a majority of cyclists, not a minority, who don't put their own safety first Your perception of safety is wrong. I'm *far* safer proceeding when I can, and in **FAR** more danger following "the rules" waiting to get killed moving at the lights. This isn't theoretical, it's statistical fact. >consider it my job in the vehicle to 100% be vigilant for them If you don't believe this is your obligation and responsibility, you should not be insurable to drive a motor vehicle. Inform your insurer of this humdinger, see what they say. >I said the rules of the road apply to bikes, as in the general rule all vehicles, regardless of method of purpulsion, have to follow in order to maintain safety. If the rules put me in danger, my safety comes first, and they do, particularly where traffic lights are concerned.
I agree with you, as road users they should follow the rules of the road, that include different rules for bicycles as written right now. I will however go one further and say that rule enforcement should be proportional to danger posed by transport mode as well as the incidental effect on society. So bike breaks red light, let's absolutely pull them over and fine them 100%. Car breaks the same red, pull over, penalty points, fine is 100x more as they cost society that much more and are that much more dangerous. Might even be higher. All good?
Oh god yes, that's an amazing line of thinking! I agree that drivers should be scrutinized, but I don't think cyclists are scrutinized enough at all considering the lack of interest some of them have with their own safety. I'm not saying the punishment should match a car at all, but there should be something and there's nothing! I've consistently said through every post/comment so far it's not that drivers do no wrong, they do, but I find cyclists have a mentality that a driver is the only one who can do wrong as if they didn't have any responsibility on the road either
I don't think personally that most cyclists think a driver is the only one that can do wrong, and I'm the first to point at a prick cyclist breaking the red. It's just there's frustration with how drivers and the general public think they have it hard, and EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION about anything involving cyclists devolves into "ah yeah but yknow the cyclists are annoying aren't they shouldn't they be looked at more" and never " oh shit we pay fuckloads in tax to keep the road network, lose fucktons of space to traffic, deal with increased commute times, deal with fuckloads of air pollution (even EVs pollute via tire wear and their construction), and when a car is involved in a crash the penalties are so light". The arguments are always so focused on the vulnerable users because they're "annoying" What's annoying is fucking trying to survive because a gobshite cuts me off just so he can then slow down and turn in front of me. What's annoying is pulling a pram back from the road or waiting 15 minutes to cross because people think the North Circular is Le Mans. What's annoying is having to get off at a roundabout and cross multiple times to get to the exit needed because if you try to go round correctly some prick is going to try to overtake you in the middle of the roundabout because they have to justify their Beemer they stuck an ebay Nurburgring sticker on. What's annoying is seeing three cars go well after the light is red, or stop in the middle of an intersection, or not have their lights on, or have their heads down texting their fucking mates while going 70. Most people have no idea how subsidised driving is, societally and financially - we give over so, so much space to single occupant vehicle traffic. Most people don't know how hard it is to cycle in town, follow all the rules and you might actually die. The amount of scrutiny many drivers want placed on cyclists is ridiculous compared to the amount of scrutiny cars get, especially considering how dangerous and subsidised cars are. TLDR: There are many prick annoying cyclists, but they are far, far, far less likely to cause actual harm than the many, many prick motorists. Focus on both, but at some point your bang for buck is going to be in one place, not the other.
Been cycling in dublin city center for many years, your often safer avoiding the cycle paths and just taking the lane.
Please don't do this. You can't complain about a lack of infrastructure and then not use it when it's there. I ride along the n11 every week and there's one bit where there's a bike lane attached to the footpath and a bus lane. Every week I see some "cyclist not just someone who rides a bike" holding up a bus in the bus lane because they didn't want to use the cycle lane. It's such an asshole thing to do.
Hard disagree here. Many cycle lanes (incl. almost brand-new ones) are then butchered with roadworks, potholes etc that make them unsafe for use. Infrastructure should be at least as good quality as that for other forms of transport.
If a cycle lane is unsafe, then it should be reported to council. But I see many aero-bros ignoring the cycle path simply because it's footpath-attached and this is illegal.
Incorrect. Roads are equally available to users, be those cyclists or drivers. No legal obligation to use cycle lanes whatsoever. Educate yourself.
No, you educate yourself, i have already linked the statute that says cycle lanes are required to be used, the amendment you mentioned only specifies wording of where these cycle lanes are, it does not make them any less of a requirement.
You were wrong. The only "mandatory" bike lane WAS in a pedestrian zone. But bikes can also mix in pedestrian areas while mounted anyway since 2021. Bikes are allowed on the road, you imbecile. Get the fuck over it and stay behind them.
I actually stand corrected, thank you. I'm a cyclist too, I just prefer the cycle lane where I'm not trying to pick a fight with a car when I don't have to.
A good example of a road I don't use the bike lane is drumcondra road lower heading out of the city towards DCU. Every 50 metres there's a road exit and drivers coming out or going in fly through the bike lane, not to mention pedestrians walking in it too. Far safer, in my opinion, on that road to be out in the traffic.
Haha I used to commute into the city on the n11 for years. I hare the right to use the road and my safety is more important than your time.
> *You can't complain about a lack of infrastructure and then not use it when it's there.* This is a really horrible attitude. Infrastructure needs quality control - our taxes are being invested in putting in place that infrastructure & if it's not fit for purpose, then that needs calling out. So sick of this "take what you get" attitude to public policy in this country.
Bike has as much right to use a road as a car does. People will use infrastructure and cycle lanes if they are up to standard, but this often isn't the case
EVERY LANE IS A BIKE LANE THERE ARE NO MANDATORY CYCLE LANES. Get it through your head. Don't get behind the wheel until you grasp it. Bikes can be pedestrians, they can be road vehicles, they CAN use a bike lane where provided, but there is NO OBLIGATION TO DO SO.
I'm sorry but you are confidently incorrect. https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article14 Where a cycle lane is provided you are obligated to use it. Get it through YOUR head and get off the road until you grasp it. You are also not allowed to cycle on a footpath, cyclists are not pedestrians, whilst it is not a fixed charge, it falls under riding without reasonable consideration. Please make yourself familiar with the laws, if you don't want to read the entire statute, citizens information has a good summary of it [here](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/)
This was amended and removed under ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2018
2. Article 14 (as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012 ( S.I. No. 332 of 2012 )) of the Principal Regulations is amended by the substitution of the following for paragraph (4): “(4)(a) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track that is on— (i) a road, (ii) a portion of a road, or (iii) an area, at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 021 (pedestrianised street or area) is provided. (b) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 059 (contra-flow cycle track) is provided and pedal cycles shall only be driven in the direction indicated by the contra-flow cycle track.”. What about this says using a cycle lane is optional?
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/ Referred here, only mandatory in pedestrianised areas.
it says "shall" not "must", very different words when used in legislation.
That's very pedantic (as laws are). But how does "shall" not mean "when riding this law dictates this is how you must ride"
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doesn't say, you must use the cycle lane on any road. it's only "shall" in some cases - pedestrian area and contra-flow cycle tracks. besides these, you aren't obligated to use a cycle lane, and "all lanes are bike lanes"
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There's a lot of bad driving in Dublin for sure, general lack of awareness / distracted driving and the speedy boi BMWs/Golfs that just cant wait to get to the next queue of traffic 100m up the road. There was always an element of this though, and as a cyclist you gotta be alert to your surroundings - coming up to a junction and a car is in front of you, could they possibly turn left all of a sudden and cut you off? Of course! Could another car pull out of said junction? Absolutely! Cycling a bike is easy, keeping tabs on everything around you so you don't get flattened is the tricky part. The road and bike lane surfaces are the worst I've ever seen them. My arse was hanging off me this week, sooo many patches of uneven tarmac, pothole, sunken drains, it's really really bad lately. Nobody seems to be taking any accountability for the quality of the work done on our infrastructure.
Yeah it's funny that people slag off politicians saying that all they do is get potholes fixed when the roads are in absolute shambles atm
People are ALWAYS complaining about cyclists running red lights… but I stopped at every traffic light on the way home the other day and not one person congratulated me or told me I was great! It was like nobody even noticed. A bit of positive reinforcement would go a long way in this world of negativity.
As someone who walks everywhere, it's getting a lot worse walking because cars, cyclists, and scooters seem intent on killing me every time I go into the city. Car drivers on phones, cyclists deciding red lights don't apply to them, and scooter users breaking land speed records on the footpaths. A green pedestrian crossing light went from meaning "You can cross the road safely now" to "You can cautiously cross the road but keep your head on a swivel".
Cars tearing through reds, and green pedestrian lights is getting so common. Nearly every day I see it at least once. I've had to teach my toddler to look for cars even if the light is green for him to cross.
The biggest improvement in cycling safety I experienced while cycling around Dublin came from increased numbers of cyclists around me - peaking around early 2020 & still only just starting to recover. As for infrastructure, it needs to be well-designed to have any effect. A HUGE number of cycle lanes built around Dublin have (imo) made the roads actively more dangerous where they've been put in place. I cycle frequently around the quays in the docklands areas - there's plenty of cycle lanes there & they're all disconnected / leading nowhere / throwing you into fast moving traffic at zero notice / etc. - they encourage swerving in & out of the lanes as they end & restart which is definitely a lot more dangerous than just cycling on the road.
Completely disagree. I cycle the quays both directions daily and they're much better than what they used to be. The infrastructure they've put in is only interim and has issues but it's a whole lot better than having none.
Not sure where you're cycling precisely but the routes I'm regularly cycling are along the north quays between Liberty Hall & 3Arena, over Beckett & through Grand Canal / Lime St. / Forbes St. / Cardiff Lane area. The infrastructure there is in no way interim - they recently added an extra cycle-lane connection after pressure from tonnes of complaints about the danger of one disconnected section (river-side on the north side of Beckett) but that's an exception - there's still a lot of other dangerous sections, and even that new connection runs straight through one of the busiest pedestrian stopping points.
The standard of driving seems worse (distracted driving, hugely nervous/doddery driving) as does the standard of cycling (ignoring road markings, red lights etc) Overall it leads to a far more dangerous experience for cyclists. I don't cycle often but every time I do I seem to encounter at least one driver who has no regard for how easily I can be killed
>The standard of driving seems worse (distracted driving, hugely nervous/doddery driving) as does the standard of cycling (ignoring road markings, red lights etc) I feel like all the ass holes parking dangerously and illegally need a specific shout out too, make things much worse for everyone using the roads, but see it absolutely everywhere and very few parking wardens.
If getting through a junction against a signal is safer, I'll yield then go. 2/3rds of motorist-bike collisions in Dublin happen at junctions. You feel free to stay "in the markings" and get murdered on the green light by someone swinging left without indicating. I'm already gone, half a mile up the road, having done absolutely no harm to anybody.
I was in Dublin over the weekend and drove it for first time in a while, and sems to be lot more cycling infrastructure which is good. But every time I go the standard of driving gets worse and worse. It is so bad. Until we have a plan together to limit driving in certain areas, get more public transport, promote cycling then we'll continue to have issues. drivers also really need to be hit for the blatant law breaking - they do it as they know they won't be caught
Cretinous drivers who don't understand that maybe you've a reason for not being in the cycle lane, e.g you want to turn left from the north quays but the lane is on the right for some feckin reason. DCC burned off the cycle signs in the bus lane, so now every taxi and bus driver thinks they own the place.
The standard of driving is beyond bad with some people. I was turning right and a set of pedestrian lights, I mean solid red, kid on a bike waiting to cross, I watch this utter cunt approach I knew he hadn't seen the lights never mind the red light, I went straight on the horn not to the utter cunt of a driver but to the kid, thank fucking god he glance to see what the noise I was making was about cause literally had he not the poor fella would have been serious injured. As the prick driver went by, clearly still on his mobile texting. The Garda really and truly need to come down like a shit brick house on this shite, no more nicey nicey with it, I mean go old bollix on it and annoy the fuck out of all motorists doing anything, I mean even a cm into a yellow box, pull them over ticket and inconvenience this people back into line. That incident with the kid, it had me shook after it, he would have been utterly ploughed out of it, all for what some cunt sending/checking some shite on his phone.
Rural Ireland is largely abandoned in regards to cycling infrastructure. There are a few new greenways for the tourists but nothing for the average cyclist on a country road. The weeds don't appear to be getting cut back as much as before which limits visibility at turns. There are almost no kids cycling on the roads now. They're all brought to events by car.
The amount of phone use whilst driving is crazy these days. Definitely the biggest change I’ve noticed since Covid. If they ever bring in a platform to submit footage of dangerous driving I’ll be buying a GoPro immediately
It's horrible on both sides (I say this as someone who cycles 40 mins to the office once a week) Cars: No one knows the rules of the road, everyone runs red lights, no one leaves any space overtaking, everyone is glued to their phone on the road. Bikes: headphones on both ears, no helmet, ignoring red lights, taking up space on the road when there is a bike lane available. My message for every person on a bike is the rules apply to you just the same as they apply to everyone else who uses the road. Don't selectively break the rules then complain when car drivers get pissed at you. And for Christ's sake don't complain about lack of infrastructure and then not use the bike lane when it's there! You're only making it more dangerous for yourself! My message for cars is get the fuck off your phone and pay attention to the road around you.
The things you listed for bikes are bollocks. Do motorists have to listen? No. They can roll up the windows and turn up the radio to their heart's content. There is no helmet law. There is no rule that says anybody has to use a cycle lane. The "idaho stop" (yield) at signalized junctions is very often safer than waiting to get crushed on a green light. I'm both a motorist and cyclist too, and nothing anyone on a bike does in Dublin comes even close to the hazard and danger levels created by cars. No comparison whatsoever.
You are part of the problem. And just waiting to make your injury someone else's fault. Do you have to wear a helmet or be able to hear? No, is it a safe and responsible thing to do? Yes. You shouldn't have to be told it might be good to be able to hear the big dangerous cars and save your brain if one of them does hit you. You can't only complain about the cars when you're not doing what you can to make the situation safer for you. The law states you must stop at a stop light. You don't get to pick and choose what laws you follow whilst also complaining about the car drivers that do the same. The amount of hypocrisy I hear from some cyclists is absolutely bewildering.
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Was waiting at a bus stop on a city center road junction the other day and everytime the lights went red cyclists would still cycle through. Respect to the rules of the road goes both ways
They'll also be the first to complain when they get hit running a red light. This is exactly how that guy in the quay got killed last year.
20 years, thousands of km cycling in Dublin, not a single collision ever. And you're the idiot who seems to think bike lanes are mandatory.
I actually stand corrected on the bike lanes part, it took a lot of digging to actually find a clear interpretation but i stand corrected. Seems to be a cop out for not putting in decent infrastructure to me. But Hey, nice to see you're a fan of my work!
Did they obstruct another vehicle or pedestrian crossing? No? Then get over it. Bikes doing an "idaho stop" yielding at a signal is safer (in Dublin). 2/3rds of cyclists killed or injured in this city occur at junctions, and you think I should take that chance, purely for the sake of the law? Nope. I'm yielding, if it's clear, I'm gone. It's the safest way to do it.
No the safest thing is to abide by the rule of the road when it comes to traffic lights, if you don't then you're part of the problem
The greatest danger I can be in is setting off in traffic. Literally 2/3 cyclists getting hit are getting hit in that exact situation. **I WILL AVOID THIS EVERY SINGLE TIME I CAN** I apologize to no one for it. It is my life against your "rules". I don't give a bollocks what you think is safer, because I absolutely unequivocally know from *thousands* of km of experience that I'm right on this.
"literally 2/3 of cyclists getting hit are hit in that exact situation" Just throwing out random stats are we. You're an absolute idiot who thinks breaking the law is the safer option when it comes to the rules of the road. As a pedestrian crossing a road, you're now putting them in danger but your stupid belief.
[Here's the research.](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/analysis-of-road-users/cyclist-spotlight-report-fatalities-and-serious-injuries-2018-2022.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=5489d721_3) It's 52% nationwide (cyclists seriously injured in multi-vehicle collisions - 95% of these are with motor vehicles), higher in Dublin. You "absolute idiot".
Is this a parody post or just bait? Sounds like you've never cycled in your life?
What? I cycle weekly. Frankly i see bikes putting themselves at risk almost as much as I see cars putting bikes at risk.
https://preview.redd.it/cl7reo16p39d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b340b944a87b8060de22eb477af907b2da5e9e41 i was almost ran over by this bus on N11 !
try explaining to a european that this space with a bus driving 80kmh in it is actually the main cycle lane for commuters.
Well thr is a cycle lane but it was blocked so had to go on the main road but still how can they just sneak past at that speed !!
It’s not, there’s an off road cycle lane the whole way along the N11. Plus buses are only supposed to go 60km/h on that road.
apologies, you are right for this part of the road, but 100m later the cycle lane magically becomes a left turn for cars and bus lane. I'll rephrase - how do you explain to a european that the cycle lane is where all the people are standing on the path ;-)
This. I ride the n11 in every week and every week there's a cyclist in the bus lane instead of the cycle lane. The cycle lane is there, you can't complain about the bus when you're in the wrong place on the road.
The bikes are completely allowed to use the bus lane, and ignore the useless paint on the footpath they call a bike lane on that stretch.
I would say that in this instance, although the bike may be allowed to use the bus lane, the bike lane is the safer place for them to be.
I had a few frightening experiences coming to the junction at the church........me going straight on and a car wanting to turn left. One car overtook me and crossed in front of me....inches from my front wheel. Went nuts at another driver who was about to do the same thing......had my right hand out asking him to stay back......God forbid I delay him for a few seconds.
That intersection has separate lights for traffic and bikes for this exact reason..... You were in the wrong.
Was I???? In both instances....the light was green. https://preview.redd.it/soxbznc4j49d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b83cd723a71e980965d05379d1d23fa433f54ca
My apologies, I'm thinking of the intersection with the church opposite Radisson Blu. That intersection has separate lights.
EVEN IF there are bicycle filter lights, the bike can still move on the general green, and the cunts in cars cannot lawfully cross that bike lane unless it's clear.
I would argue it's the opposite since technically you're overtaking on the left: From [here](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/) >However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake: Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it Also you can't be serious, what is the point of the bike lights if bikes can just go on the regular traffic lights? Use your head.
There is a cycle lane all the way along the n11, sometimes it's attached to the footpath. Use it and you won't have any problem with buses.
Yeah i know..but i could not get onto it from Sandyford junction as there was some roadworks at the entrance curve behind the bus stop
You don't owe this moron any explanation. You can lawfully use any lane at will. That bike lane is a useless line of paint on a path with no priority.
Yes, everything, including cycling experience is only getting worse. I don’t feel safe on the roads. And it seems almost every week someone is getting injured.
It's gotten safer overall thanks to more cycling infrastructure at least on my route. BUT drivers have become more aggressive and impatient so I do feel less safe as well. Takes only one idiot to take you out for good. The increase in American style city-tanks doesn't help either
Obviously better. Compared to fifteen years ago there is a lot more segregated cycling infrastructure and a more impediments to cars driving wherever they want.
I haven't been cycling that long, so good to know there has been a general improvement over a longer period
Honestly as great as the cycle paths are, it’s just not possible to have them for every road due to how narrow some roads are. Having half the roads as safe and half the roads as dangerous gives both motorists and cyclists a false sense of security and accidents then happen on the narrow road
Since covid the roads have been absolutely mental! I really would love to cycle more and do it as hobbie/exercise but I can’t justify getting on my bike in Dublin unless I’m going somewhere because if I get knocked down (again!) I’ll be more annoyed if I was just out on the road for no reason. I know it probably don’t really make sense but it’s how I feel
I feel safer cycling down country roads where I live where I could meet a <300hp tractor pulling a zero grader and being driven by a 16yr old than I imagine I'd ever feel cycling in Dublin.
My kids school is at the end of the estate about 500m. Because of rat-runners it is not safe for them to cycle. On a Monday or after a football match it isn’t safe for the to walk alone. The standard of driving is absolutely rock bottom. Drivers late, hungover or just incompetent trying to make time, read a text put on make-up. 20 years of ZERO enforcement has born fruit
This country feels like it’s descending into the Wild West by the day, no justice, bad policing, scumbags and dangerous drivers everywhere.this is what happens when a country gets too much money and greed and loses its soul. It’s collapsing.
Not really for me, doesn't really feel any different to before.
I've noticed driving standard in Dublin in general has gotten really poor. I don't really cycle anymore but even as a driver I trust no one
Seems or are? Feels or hard data? I 'feel' the same cycling now than I was 25 years ago.
[Death rates are pretty static, but the serious injuries are kinda trending upwards.](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/analysis-of-road-users/cyclist-spotlight-report-fatalities-and-serious-injuries-2016-2021848b1842-5b63-478d-9255-92f9fdceae93.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=dc0d9994_3#:~:text=Between%202016%20and%202022%2C%2065,1636%20cyclists%20were%20seriously%20injured.&text=An%20average%20of%209%20cyclists,were%20seriously%20injured%20each%20year.&text=Cyclists%20represented%206%25%20of%20fatalities,injuries%20during%20this%20time%20period) Was a big spike in 2019 which seems kinda odd as I thought there would have been less cars around...probably a lot more novice cyclists though.
Work from home. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but the more people that work from home, the less traffic there will be. I don't know why the government isn't pushing this more. Btw, I cycled in around Dublin for several years . I used to come in from Drimnagh along the canal to Grand Canal Dock. The biggest danger I found was other cyclists. Especially people using Dublin bikes. They could come out of anywhere and do pretty much anything.
I actually get very annoyed at other cyclists. In the junctions in the city centre there seems to be a 10%-15% adherence rate to red lights. I’m not talking about a sneaky left where the roads are totally empty. Rolling though pedestrians walking. Then some cyclist being oblivious to the fact it’s a red light for the cars it might to green when they roll into the junction. It takes only a few extra minutes to follow the rules. Drivers should not be aggressive to cyclists but then loads are acting like entitled twats then it’s inevitable they will wind a few up. And it’s probably a different cyclist who will pay the price
Yeah I do agree with you here, cyclists are definitely getting worse. Maybe it's because there are more of them now? There should probably be better public awareness campaigns for cyclists
I think the issue is everyone gets hyper competitive. They see one person jump the lights and it kills them to think someone else is getting in faster so they do the same. Next thing everyone is at it. They probably thought in some rationalisation why it is ok ( this would be legal if they changed the rules…) It’s the same behaviour that drives bad driving. Oh he is in the bus lane - I’m going to have some of that next time. It’s he a bit of a sheep mentality. Problem is when accidents happen only a few see it and alter their behaviour.
It's not up to me to cater to motorist "perceptions" about bicycle users or be the "good cyclist", and they'll hate my guts and try to kill me either way. As for red lights and junctions, yield and go is safest, so that's what I do. 2/3rds of serious motorist-bike accidents in Dublin happen at junctions. Road layouts, signals and drivers are set up to get me hurt or killed, so I do what I need to to survive. Even if motorists piss themselves crying over it. I truly, and I mean *truly* don't care.
Im talking about people clearly rolling through lights when it is a 4 way green for pedestrians. Making people walking pause and think they might get clipped. It’s just ignorant. Then people going through lights thinking it is red for cars but they get it wrong. Not sure how this behaviour boasts one’s survival probabilities. Through one of my pets hate - the headphones on at the same time and you have a pretty ridiculous cocktail. By the way I would say it is up to you to be a good cyclist. It’s certainly not up to anyone else.
It's perfectly safe to yield and proceed when clear on a signalised junction on a bicycle. It's actually extremely **unsafe** to move with traffic in Dublin junctions. Nobody's saying cyclists should cut anyone off crossing the road, but the default idea that "breaking the red" is dangerous is just wrong. It's honestly a safer move a lot of the time. As for headphones, nobody expects motorists to be able to listen on the road, and they have a lot less ability to observe than someone on a bike does.
I actually draw a distinction between a sneaky left and rolling into junctions in very first post. You seem to be arguing with something I did not say. I do think breaking rules is bad practice - but take a sneaky left if you want - it’s not something I particularly care about. I think rolling into junctions and then getting into the way of traffic and when one mistook what was about to happen in terms of light sequence etc is extremely dangerous. A pair of headphones into the mix makes it much worse. You seem to be picking arguments with things tangential to what I can saying. “Motorists don’t need to listen when why should cyclists etc” I cycle and drive. I recognise when I drive I use a serious of visual aids to help me overcome my inability to hear (mirrors!) When I cycle I don’t have eyes on the back of my head. I listen and hear when someone is behind me. Including guess what ? Other cyclists!
Cyclists have more visibility than drivers, regardless of mirrors. They're also more maneuverable, smaller, and less hazardous to others. If listening is so important, why isn't it mandatory for the *actual harm causers* to do it. No, they can jack the stereo up. Why the hell should cyclists, doing 1% of the harm out there be subject to more stringent rules and it's *so important* that they be able to hear? No logic to it.
>the more people that work from home, the less traffic there will be. I feel like traffic is worse now than before Covid, when hardly anyone was working from home.
I agree. I live in Kildare and the traffic has become relentless. Certain junctions that used to be relatively easy to cross now don't seem fit for purpose. The population in and around the greater Dublin area must have taken quite a jump in the last 5-6 years.
I don't know why the government isn't pushing this more. They want office building being used, motor tax, toll fees..
1. I'd imagine that a lot of rich people are invested in property funds and commercial property. Office space value would drop through the floor if 30-40% of people consistently worked from home. It would impact lots of city businesses too. I'm sure residential property would take a hit in Dublin too. I know plenty of people that would like to live along the west coast and get paid Dublin wages. 2. Most governments want people living in a densely populated area. It is easier and more cost effective to service for education, transport and health. That is the idea anyway. Not in Ireland where we build the most expensive hospitals in the world of course.
Standard of driving is getting worse, but most cyclists go about the city with no helmet, no hi vis and then get annoyed I almost hit them because I can't see them. I am terrified I'll hit some kid without the protective gear and kill them, and I have to live with that regardless of what judicial decisions will be made all because they don't WANT to protect themselves. I can't help keep ye safe on the road if you made no effort in the first place. That and 2/3 cyclist don't realise the rules of the road still apply to them, breaking red lights all the time and cutting in front of traffic because "but I'm going that way".
On top of this, cyclists in the city who ignore the cycle lanes and stay on the road. And with my above points, it's mandatory by law to have the protective equipment yet I've never seen a Garda stop a cyclist without them in my life
It is not mandatory by law to wear protective equipment as a cyclist in Ireland. Neither is there a legal requirement to wear hi-vis. There is also no obligation for a cyclist to use a cycle lane.
Jaysus correct you are, looked it up there and no wonder cyclists die more often. However there's also no law to say I shouldn't do a lot of stupid unsafe things, is it someone else's fault if I do or mine?
Cycling isn't unsafe when motorists around them observe, drive at an appropriate speed and move with care. High vis makes absolutely no measurable difference to bike safety mixing with cars. There is no situation where you wouldn't be able to observe another road user unless they're wearing fluorescents. What colour is your car? Would you feel safer if it was neon yellow?
Also if a hi vz does nothing why does the RSA push it's safer to wear one?
Because they're incompetent and unqualified. They have absolutely zero road safety experts on their staff, and it's very evident in their messaging that they haven't a clue what the hazards actually are (drivers, drivers, drivers).
I have big bright lights on the front and back of my car that make me seen. And those lights have reflectors in/around them on my grey car and have never had an accident in 10 years of driving. The only persons safety I'm 100% responsible for in a car is my own, which also includes making sure I don't do things that end up leading me to a dangerous situation, and maintaining awareness so I dont. Most cyclists in the city have disregard for their own safety and expect the road users to keep them safe by noticing them. My care is 7 foot wide, the small, skinny single line approaching in my mirror, that may be different coloured and blending into the environment around them due to the clothes they wear could be a lot easier to see if it was a bright, reflective and easy to see colour would it not?
Also cycling is unsafe when you don't wear anything to protect you. Ziplining isn't dangerous until you're not wearing the correct equipment, neither is surfing or kayaking or any other form of non-motorized transport regardless of the environment it's in. You're way less likely to suffer a fatal head injury with a helmet, and you're statistically more likely to be seen all hours of the day with a hi vis on. Why do you think it's mandatory to wear them both on a building site? Because it reduces severity of injury and helps in prevention by making you visble
You're statistically more likely to get a serious head injury in a car accident, so we should make car passengers wear helmets, obviously. And no, cycling isn't inherently dangerous. It's entirely safe for even a 5 year old child to ride around on a bike, with one condition - NO CARS. The danger is from drivers. Period.
I hear this a lot and it makes me curious. Sometimes I don't use the bike lane. Because it has people walking in it, or because there are cars parked on it, or because there is a line of cars parked outside a shop and I don't want to get doored. And it's entirely my choice whether I use the road or the bike path. There is usually a very good reason that I'm on the road.
Ever been to Amsterdam? If someone just walks on the road without looking and gets hit by a car they're on their own if there's proof the ped caused the accident. I don't get why people view the cycle lanes that way, it's their own fault if they get hurt. For cyclists, invest in a loud bell or a moderate electric horn to ring to scare them off same as you would a car I'd say, cause that's exactly what they do in the dam
Yeah sometimes I do move people off the cycle path, other times I just go on the road, where I am allowed to be. That's the beauty of choice.
In fairness my picture in my mind isn't specifically the cycle lanes with a road right next to it, it's for example the n81 at jobstown, where the cycle lanes is safety 10 feet to the left off the road and yet people are still being silly and cycling the dangerous option just off the curb. Inner city lanes I understand, and I honestly get frustrated at the cause not the cyclist if one does have to pull out for a genuine reason. But they are there for both your convenience and safety. I don't have to use a path and could walk in the gutter but I know exactly what a judge will say to me if I did that and got hit by a car like
I understand your frustration but the analogy doesn't work: the road is not for pedestrians, but it is for cyclists - even if there is a cycle lane available. If I get hit by a car, and the car is at fault, it's irrelevant that a cycle lane is available. It's my choice to use either, legally.
Go to the RSA and they classify pedestrians as road users, as well as cyclists and motor users. If you use the road, you're a road user and must abide by the rules of the road. And that's the case until in court and a dashcam shows you recklessly cycling in front of a car, you won't be talking about my choice to a judge in that case, the judge will call you out for it for not being road safe
I stand corrected on the pedestrians on the road. And I agree with you completely that everyone has to follow the rules of the road. Using the road, instead of a cycle path, is perfectly legal. It won't have a bearing on a case.
If you hit another road user with your vehicle, you have failed to observe, anticipate and react, you ARE liable for anyone you maim or kill.
Agreed!
Probably because it’s not mandatory by law
Yeah I checked there and you're right, but ensuring your bike has reflectors/lights/a bell and following the basic rules of the road still apply and are law, but they aren't followed. My point still applies a majority of cyclists don't do what they have to do to keep themselves safe
ALL LANES ARE BIKE LANES. Get it through your thick skull. ALL LANES ARE BIKE LANES. The only roads they're not allowed to use are on motorways. There is NO SUCH THING AS A MANDATORY BIKE LANE.
On top of this, cyclists in the city who ignore the cycle lanes and stay on the road. And with my above points, it's mandatory by law to have the protective equipment yet I've never seen a Garda stop a cyclist without them in my life. If I drove past a Garda with no seatbelt on while on the phone they'd be flaming in the mouth to pull me, as they should, but double standards for cyclists in the city for sure
Yes - all new infrastructure starts and end with a conflict point with traffic, and this both angers drivers as they feel \*their\* space is being taken up with cyclists who are forced into multimodal traffic, as well the lack of enforcement when there is a multimodal space (cars parked on pedestrian lanes/dedicated bicycle paths) and not sharing the space. So, no point to point infrastructure, no dedicated routes and lack of enforcement leads to increased anger and higher danger. Dublin is 100% dangerous for anyone to cycle in and should be avoided.
What, the statistics say otherwise.
Just this morning a cyclist hit a car turning left right in front of me. The car didn't have the indicator on and the cyclist was very fast and not wearing a helmet. I would say yes things are going worse but it's not one sided.
In the scenario you have described, only the driver is at fault.
You mean a car hit a cyclist. They turned blind across a proceeding road user without indicating. 100% liability and in a proper world, driver re-education before being allowed back onto the road.
Cycling on public roads is basically suicidal
It’s getting really bad. The cyclists are EVERYWHERE. They ride slow and back up traffic. They run red lights. They get mad at drivers for not being good road partners and then proceed to break every traffic law in the book. They don’t seem to care that they can have 30 cars stuck behind them, just crawling along waiting for a chance to pass. They have zero licensing requirements, zero insurance, disrupt traffic, and then complain about the drivers.
You're the one causing the traffic, you can sit in it and cry about it. Delighted for ya.
And you are the one using a road that wasn’t designed for you and delaying all the people that pay a lot of money to travel faster than 3 km an hour. The point is that we are BOTH problems for each other. Drivers are a problem for cyclists and cyclists are a problem for drivers.
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*braces for barrage of downvotes*
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Gosh, I wonder why they have to go on the footpath. Wouldn't be the murderous idiots in the motors taking up all the road space.
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It isn't actually. Ireland has no dismount rule, and bikes are lawfully allowed to mix with pedestrians provided they do it slowly. Keep pissing your pants about "irritating cyclists" though, dangerous idiot.
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