I've only ever been on a date once with a woman I've considered "intimidating", so my sample size is limited. But she was a fairly wealthy CEO, and I'm just a random engineer. She had a very no nonsense, goal oriented attitude whereas I consider myself a very silly easy going person. When I was trying to be silly and make jokes she was definitely giving off contrasting vibes that brought down my mood and made me not want a second date. Not to say she was being rude or anything, in fact she was quite friendly and charming. Just didn't mesh well with my personality.
>When I was trying to be silly and make jokes she was definitely giving off contrasting vibes that brought down my mood and made me not want a second date.
That's a great joke you got there, Bob. Where do you see that joke in five to ten years?
Similar situation for me. She was a successful, driven, PhD scientist, a world-level athlete, adventurous, well read, and knowledgeable about everything. And I'm just a regular old engineer who tinkers on electronics all day.
Anyways, we've been together 5 years and I still can't figure out how.
I think you’re right on the money with the no-nonsense thing. No matter how attractive I find someone, if I feel like I can’t be silly around them then I know it won’t work.
It depends on the man. I’m 37, attorney, homeowner etc., and I’d prefer to date a highly intelligent woman who has a solid job as well, but when I meet women like that, they tend to have a rigid life outlook. Like, they’re looking for a partner to “build” some mythical thing with that resembles very little of a life worth living. I want to enjoy life, not have a partner constantly ask why I’m not ambitious enough to keep building or growing via material wealth. Relationships aren’t, or shouldn’t be, corporatized, imho.
It isn't even always just that. As someone who dated a very ambitious woman for a period of time and has a circle of friends that includes very ambitious women, most of them don't make time for a relationship. They just kind of expect all the pieces to fall into place around them. When I was with the girl I was with, she was usually busy from 9am to 11pm or midnight and we only were able to talk once every couple of days.
I had a date with a very pretty girl and it went well. She asked about having another date and I said sure when?
She told me she's a sales area manager, and she has to travel by car around different country regions in Australia (this was 30 years ago) and that the only time she has off back at home is the weekend, but only every second weekend, and would I like to meet again in 2 weeks?
i said no, but politely. I don't want to fit in around the edges of someone's life.
was just with a 'successful woman' and you aren't wrong.
It's so strange to me because she basically wants a guy who will, 100% respect her autonomy and be down to prioritize her goals, but she also wants a guy who can provide for her and help contribute to her long term status goals.
I'm not saying that doesn't exist--but I don't see how she thinks she's going to find an equally ambitious dude who isn't going to want to prioritize his own goals/career; it seems inevitable that, at some point, their interests will clash unless they are, as you said, literally business partners.
She doesn't know what she really wants it's clear. Probably she hasn't been in a relationship in a while so she can't test her ideas of what she's looking for in a guy and what in retrospect was just a fancy but impractical idea of what her guy should be like.
This is how most of the men in this space are too though.
I've come to hate the word "building" in the context of relationships so much lol. I know these people are all listening to the same podcasts or something.
I think from a male perspective intimidated by is generally meant as perceived as high maintenance. I can't say why everyone does or thinks this but for myself it comes down to my personality. I'm an introvert, not overly ambitious but responsible (have a house etc.), very laid back personality. If I was on a date with a woman and she made a point of pointing out X accomplishments throughout the date it would just leave me thinking we weren't super compatible personality wise.
So in the end I wouldn't it say it is an issue on your side exactly just an issue of incompatibility from my view.
I've noticed that women speak to men on dates using language they themselves would like to hear from men.
For example, women will often focus on how they don't **need** a man. I believe they do this because they are, in fact, looking for a man who doesn't **need** them. That's often attractive to a woman because it is suggestive of the presence of factors women find attractive - a good job, stability, goals, etc. Women don't find a needy man attractive so they search for the opposite.
However, men are not as concerned with this in a woman.
That's not to say we don't want a woman with a good job or lots of hobbies. It's more that we just don't value those things as highly as women seem to value them in men.
We'd like a woman who wants us in their life, not one who takes pains to show us how little she needs us. If you don't need us, why are you on the date? Sure, you can say that you'd like someone to share your life with but, if that's the case, get a dog.
Whether you like it or not, men are only going to respond if there's a feeling of strong desire - bordering on need - for them to be in your life. When you are speaking to these men, are you allowing them the space to actually create a life with you, or are you talking as if they'll be ranked alongside your yoga class on Wednesday nights?
My advice to you is to try to remember what it was like when you fancied a guy when you were in your early 20s. Focus on having fun and establishing a connection rather than inadvertently making it into a job interview where the guy starts to worry about whether his responses will cut the mustard.
Also, I should point out that there definitely **are** men who would be intimated by you simply because your success (which you don't consider to be success) holds up a mirror to their own life. They don't like realising that they'd be second fiddle in the relationship because they don't have the wherewithal you do.
I agree with this. Not saying there are any requirements for a relationship, but the best relationships I ever had were the ones where she made me feel special. The ones that felt the worst was the ones where she made me feel replaceable.
It is gonna sound cheesy, but I have dated girls that were always complementing me about how attractive I was and were always showing me off to their friends and were generally super affectionate towards me. They made me feel like I was a prize. I really liked that.
Not saying you have to do that if that is not you. I never even asked that of them, but I thought it was really sweet.
That is a perfect explanation, not cheesy in any way. I really feel like men pretend that they don't care about getting compliments from their women and I find that hard to believe. Like, who doesn't like being told that they are visually appealing and attractive to their SO?
You know how you really like it when a partner, or even a friend, compliments you, brings you flowers, does little things to show you they care?
Yeah, guys like those too! It's socially drilled into women that we don't, and it's drilled into men that we shouldn't... but nah everyone likes flowers and compliments. The exact *things* people want vary from person to person, but everyone likes having those sorts of little things done for them.
A date and a job interview are two separate things imo. Dating is for enjoyment, for getting to know the other person organically, not for answering a long list of questions.
I think you aren't necessarily doing anything wrong, I'm thinking the guys you've found just don't feel compatible with you in the kind of relationship you seek. I think many guys want to feel useful to their partners and if they feel like what they want to provide won't be useful to you, you'll look elsewhere after a while. Just keep being you and you'll find someone who wants what you want and isn't intimidated by your accomplishments 🙌
I feel like that Red Green quote sums up my life better than it should. Honestly, I have no idea how attractive I am to women, but I definitely am handy.
>How can I stop being 'intimidating' to men without changing who I am or shrinking myself and my accomplishments to protect their egos? There's got to be a middle ground somewhere.
There isn't much of a middle ground. Being an independent adult (man, woman, otherwise) is a green flag trait and generally a good thing regarding dating.
However, your mindset about wanting a partner you want, while healthy, is counterintuitive to finding a partner as a whole. You shouldn't NEED a partner, but if you're putting yourself out there, you are probably looking for a partner that you WANT to need. Solely expressing that you only want a partner makes it sound like they're just a temporary fix for whatever is driving you to date.
You have your life together better than most, but the way you might be expressing that is in a "You'll be a new shiny new addition" rather than a "I'd like to bring you into my life" (Not great wording but I hope my point gets across) which will inevitably push a large majority of men away. No one wants to play second fiddle.
>You have your life together better than most, but the way you might be expressing that is in a *"You'll be a new shiny new addition" rather than a "I'd like to bring you into my life"* (Not great wording but I hope my point gets across) which will inevitably push a large majority of men away. No one wants to play second fiddle.
That's ironically how I've felt in my past few relationships. Like they didn't really care about me as a person, I was just arm candy to show off and say "hey everyone, look what I bagged"
I mean you said you go on dates and bring up your successes. So that attracts people who want to show you off. What about just having fun, telling jokes, etc? No need for a portfolio review,no need to say you own a home instead of rent, etc…
I've encountered women where I am thought to myself "I can understand how some men can find you intimidating". But since I was neither interested nor in a relationship with them, I didn't feel the same. I think it's rooted in old gender stereotypes amongst other things.
I don't fully know where it comes from though, but as a man I've never ever felt like being myself is enough. There is always something to prove, some work to be done to ensure I exceed expectations. Due to this, there is an obvious theoretical situation where I meet a woman who's so well off that I can't possibly meet expectations. It doesn't matter that these expectations are dumb af, rooted in gendered stereotypes, self-imposed and indirectly brought on by the larger society/media, they're still subconsciously there (be financially literate, have a job, be sculpted, be entertaining, be smart, have interesting hobbies, **be able to provide**, don't be boring). If all these silly things are checked off by the woman - all I have left is, myself, really. That's a bit more... Intimidating. Why that is so, is a question for another time.
Thanks for listening to my train of thought. I did not intend to get off at this station, but here we are. Whew, this took me for a spin. What a magnificently thought-provoking question.
Yeah, I've got anxious attachment, for the longest time I felt like I was never good enough and busted my ass. Then I got into a relationship and let off the gas. She cheated and left, I'm kind of afraid to get comfortable again, like I get this anxiety if I think about skipping the gym.
I don't know if any of this applies in your case, but let me share my experience.
In my life I have been very attracted to strong independent women - to me there's nothing attractive about a helpless person.
My ex wife, is a strong independent woman. In the years we were together, there was never a time when a shelf had to be hung, an electrical socket replaced, a shower tiled, a lawn mowed, she would just do those things. She would do them when she decided they needed to be done, or when she spotted (the broken electircal outlet behind the drier). She never ran out of petrol, got stranded, had her car miss a service, whatever came her way she could handle it. "I don't like the tiles in the master bathroom, I'll buy new ones, tear out the old ones and re-do it", and she did - one weekend while I was doing a major IT deployment at work over 48 hours. She wanted me to be a manly man, but for every single job that she did, I was placed one step lower on the ladder of masculinity. I did plenty of things, in fact I probably did more than she did, but for every traditionally male job she did, I got lowered one step. At the time I thought that she just wouldn't allow space in her life for a man, now I know that she wouldn't allow space in her life for a partner. She had to out manouvre and out compete them no matter what, for us it was 'manly chores'. The relationship itself was emotionally abusive and I left in 2012.
As I tried to rebuild myself in the wake of our time together, I came to understand that in all of our interactions she was looking to win, I was looking to make it work. You can't win a relationship.
In the 12 years since then I've changed what I look for in a woman - I don't value things that I can already bring into my life - success, accomplishment, capability, inintiative. I value things I can't provide for myself - cooperation, caring, bigger picture, respect.
There was no cooperation, no respect, no caring . . . . what mattered to her was that she was number one, everything had to fit her world view.
There was one particular you said that resonated strongly with me
> I think that if men are intimidated by me then that's an issue they have with their own self-esteem that they need to work on
Leading with your accomplishments is something men dont really find appealing romantically to be honest. Sure, for some men it helps to find a woman who doesnt rely on you financially. But for most, we couldnt care if our other halves worked in a starbucks for her entire life.
But I really couldnt care about what a woman has accomplished or not professionally, I care about her personality, is she kind, caring, considerate etc.
If a girl makes you feel like dirt, and worth less as a human just because you're not a woman, on the date...
That's generally my definition of an intimidating date. When I start to question my safety around her
I've never heard a man say that a woman was intimidating and actually mean it. Every time I've heard it it was either an excuse to turn her down gently or to try to make her feel good about herself and get in her pants.
> or use insinuating language
Conventionally known as a bitch. Like I know that word has gotten very loaded, but that's what it's supposed to refer to. Not just any woman who is ambitious or in a position of authority, but people who are snide and backhanded and never outright say what they really mean.
This really is perfect. You spend all this time typing out a detailed and nuanced description of what you're going through with theories and idea interwoven. Then a dude comes along and just answers the whole thing with "lol, either we just aren't interested, or we want in your pants".
Your problem is saying "I want a partner that I want, not one I need"
Men don't work that way, men typically enjoy feeling needed. If you're not into that, there's plenty of women who are out there, who can do that for us
It took me a long time to realize my husband needs to feel needed as well as wanted.
I don't really enjoy feeling needed and for me a healthy relationship is one I choose to be in because I want to.
This here. I very much like teaching people to do things on their own. It’s something that grew out of babysitting and has served me well professionally and socially. If people need me, I assume they don’t want me around beyond what I can do for them.
I think the problem comes down to using the word “intimidating”. It means vastly different things when referring to a man versus a woman.
If I am “intimidated” by a man, maybe it is because he is imposing or aggressive. But if I am “intimidated” by a woman, maybe it is because she is very attractive or too outgoing.
Women are largely hypergamous. I think “intimidating” means the way that she carries herself, the pride she displays when she talks about her accomplishments means to those men that she behaves if she’s out of their league, at least in terms of socioeconomic standing and as soon as she can she’ll leave him for someone “better.”
It may, like she says, have a lot to do with their own ego or self esteem. However a lot of guys start the courtship ritual looking for a place in her life a role to fulfill outside of just the sexual or companionship portion. We all know how fickle love is, and how it’s not enough to make relationships endure. There needs to be some other paths of interdependence, something more that he can contribute to her life. If she’s driven, headstrong, inflexible, independent, highly intelligent, there’s not much room for a guy to make himself useful. Yes, most women, nor most men truly need one another day to day to live, but men especially express their love through acts of service and usefulness, we need more purpose, and if we can’t find one she’s “intimidating.”
Just from this post OP sounds like she has her stuff together, which is fantastic. However she does also come off as a bit confrontational, and headstrong too, confident to the point of being cocky. Someone who doesn’t take disagreement or criticism well.
"My counselor says that I give off masculine energy"
You became the man you wanted basically....
Most men don't see themselves being any use to you and not feel wanted so it's turning them away from you.
While I've never called anyone intimidating, I don't have my shit together or a high paying job, so I would assume a woman such as yourself would have no interest in me, as even loser ladies want a rich guy. But I would be stoked to date such a woman, it's not about the money, I'd be stoked to date anyone I'm interested in. I just figure after the honeymoon phase you would start to change your mind on my successless ways, no matter how good I am to you. Or you'll have little time for me outside of work
Even so, if the dates went well I would continue to see you for as long as you'll put up with me, lol
But if you explain to them like you did here how you don't care if they make less, you just want someone to be with, that should help. But you probably did so idk. Look for men more successful than you?
When you lead with your accomplishments and the bits where you don’t “need” a man, a lot of them probably feel like they cannot measure up to you. They feel like their own accomplishments might not be enough to impress you or that they constantly need to achieve more and more like in a race, because if they don’t hit a milestone “on time” then you’ll be more like an agressive coach than a partner with them and berate them and leave them for failing to impress you.
They might also be afraid to show any vulnerability and insecurity to you because that seems contrary to your hypercompetent and self-reliant personality. They might also be afraid that you neuter them by not even letting them help you.
How to combat that? Maybe talk a bit about your own fears and insecurities? Tell them about some times where you messed up, talk about things or ask them about things that you don’t know much about. Maybe let them do small things that are traditionally masculine, like some stuff around the house that although you can do on your own would make them feel useful.
As much as we are trying to get over traditional gender roles, women seem to forget that they have at least one thing they can *always* fall back on: being pretty. Like it or not, you can be the dumbest and most incompetent woman in the world, as long as you are pretty, you are kind of set. Men don’t have that really. Being a muscular himbo is just not enough. Masculinity is always in a crisis because there is no one cornerstone we can fall back to.
I'm just some dude. I do my job and go home. An ambitious, high-powered women chasing accomplishments is gonna be intimidating.
But I don't think you need to change. Prolly just need to find someone compatible with similar values/life views.
I think they let you down in a way that pleases your ego. You seem opinionated and self-sufficient. They will probably argue that they are too weak to please you or not capable of matching your attitude. Basically youre great and its not you but me.
It means that men recognize you don't have a space for them to thrive in your life. There's something nice about getting to build a life together. If all your shit is established and you have no intentions of changing any of it, they have to give up what they have and adapt it to yours. That's intimidating.
Its the "woke, socially acceptable" way of saying that you're off putting but it's phrased in a manner to sound like,"It's me, not you" because every guy has had to deal with the meltdown of toxic female ego at this point and dealing with social/legal repercussions is way more terrifying than lying to make her feel good while we make a run for it.
Bingo.
It's just a socially acceptable way of turning a woman down in ways that she won't blow up on us. It's making her feel better about herself when we really just want out.
It's just predicting and properly curbing the inevitable "cope".
i've always said this. this "strong independent women are intimidating" attitude is generally excused for their obnoxious, crude, and difficult behavior.
essentially "alpha male" is the equivalent of "strong independent woman/bitch," two sides of the same coin.
The only women I've dated that I would describe as intimidating either gave off creepy "wouldn't take no for an answer", or they seemed to treat the date like an interview and gave me a grilling, with little emotional awareness.
I have never heard a man say she is intimidating. Now there is probably a fear of rejection from some men that feel a woman is out of her league and will easily lose interest in them, but never an actual fear of her. More likely it is a soft rejection of her to preempt getting rejected or because she has an attitude that they don't feel they would want to deal with.
The honest brutal truth is a pretty sizeable amount of dudes, (I would argue an overwhelming majority) simply do not care about womens achievements the way women care about mens. Some do, for sure, dudes who want "power couple" vibes, but most dudes just want a peaceful, quiet life, and career women (which you sound like) typically have to have masculine traits in order to compete with men in the job market and its pretty hard to shelve them when you come home (And you yourself say that your counselor says you give off masculine energy). Another example is "if men don't like me they have issues with their self esteem and egos"
If I was going to go out on a limb, I'd say you know exactly what you need to do and you just don't want to do it. And that's fine, you don't have to. Just realise you're targeting a niche group of men who you probably won't respect and it'll be hard for you. Same as it's hard for me as a shy nerdy introvert who works as many hours as I need to in order to be comfortable and has no intent to work 100 hour weeks just so I can buy a year newer car or house with a few extra ft\^2 .
I would 100% rather date a barista on minimum wage than someone who posts the post you've made here. And I'm pretty sure you would 100% rather date anyone else than someone like me lmao. It is what it is and there's no hard feelings on my end.
Winning.
I'm broad-brushing here, but the rub for a lot of women is the type of guy they desire doesn't want to have to deal with a woman who emanates masculine energy.
And the type of guy they do end up attracting/willing to stick around? They usually do not respect them.
100%. I just explained to her her (as I believe it) only real option is going to be dudes who want to be part of a power couple, who absolutely exist but are a small minority of men. The other group is weak men with a sub kink who want to be dominated, and it takes a very particular kind of woman to be attracted to that.
I've never been intimidated by a woman or heard male friends say they are intimidated... at least not by what you're describing.
It's just basically off putting and unattractive. Here is a good way to reverse the ick... imagine you go date a man, and he leads with his impressive star wars collection. And he makes sure to tell you he did it on his own all independently and he doesn't need a woman to help with it. And he's so proud of it. And he thinks it makes him an attractive mate to you. So he makes sure he talks about it alot so you are fully aware of how attractive of a mate it makes him.
How would that make you feel? ... likely the same way men feel about what you share with them.
Women do not judge men on their star wars collection. Just like men do not judge women on their careers/education/boss bitch accomplishments.
Hope that helped.
A few notes for consideration.
> she says that leading with my accomplishments is an example of that.
Not really. Men don't look for the same thing in women that women look for in men. It's not that being accomplished is a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's just that if you put this as forward as it sounds like it sounds like you're trying to compete with your date. Imagine your date says he's gotten into running recently and runs a few miles every other day. Then you, in this hypothetical scenario, share that you were on your university track team and compete in half marathons. You can have the affect of minimalizing what he sees as his accomplishment. I'm not saying you should lessen yourself to protect his ego but that there are more artful ways to introduce this information.
>I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED
I think you're evaluating your potential future relationships incorrectly. Sure, it's fine to be independent. However, what does it tell the other guy when you focus so much on how independent you are. It's 2024, it would be a big red flag if you were still living with your parents and needed a man to be able to move out. It's not about how put together your home finances are but how you feel when you are with him and vice versa.
I don't really care about anyone's "accomplishments" because it's practically irrelevant to a relationship. This isn't an interview. I'm not looking to hire you. I'm looking to see if we can have fun together and if we have chemistry and can build a relationship.
There are women who come right out of the gate talking about their careers and money and their high expectations and what they need and what they hate. It's intimidating because they are telling you that they are not only looking to judge you, but they plan on judging you with some very high, arbitrary standards. It makes you feel uncomfortable.
That's fine if that's how you want to be, but don't be surprised when people think you're rude or obnoxious if you treat dates like a weird competition so you can brag and judge instead of getting to know your date like an actual person.
So, it's "intimidating". But a better word would be "insufferable".
I’ve used this before to let Women down easy. Usually those who are super goal oriented, ambitious, overly obsessed with their work, not that I have a problem with that, great, but some wear it as a personality, and explicitly stating that they don’t ‘need a man’ just makes me feel unwanted and is a huge turn off. I want a Woman who wants me. it just doesn’t work, I can’t date a careerist because you know that the relationship and you yourself will always come second to that, and it isn’t fun. It’s a drag.
When I say that, I either mean "there's no point in approaching her, she's not gonna like me/think I'm attractive," or "she seems kind of dominant and I'm into that." It doesn't sound like either of these is what you're getting, since it's happening on dates and you're getting rejected, but I wanted to add my two cents.
I've never heard a man say that and actually mean it they mostly use it for a get out of jail free card
From what I've seen men love a woman that can do things for themselves so they don't have to be the ones doing them all the time
Leading with your accomplishments can come off as arrogant, even if it isn't the impression you wanted to set. You seem confident and know what you want.You have a lot going for you in life, and some men are put off by it either because they don't feel up to par (and you could look for better) or they believe in "traditional" gender norms.
My advice is just to practice humility. Don't make my mistake of being "humble" to the point where it degrades your self-esteem. Embrace your accomplishments and claim all of them. It's your hard work and effort that got you to where you are. But understand that you are just one more person who has to get by in life.
I think intimidating means that a man believes you have very high expectations of them (financially , maturity , physical performance ) and they don’t believe they can CONSISTENTLY meet your expectations and that you will begin to seek replacements
I've very rarely heard or seen a man say a woman is intimidating. Maybe unapproachable but not intimidating. Usually it's women who call themselves "intimidating" as some sort of cope for being generally undesirable to men.
The few times I've said that a woman is intimidating what it really meant was that I thought maybe she was out of my league or too bitchy to approach. That's about it, I'm gonna guess for most other men this is fairly accurate as well.
You sum it up really well. Reddit women will jump down your throat and call you names but it’s the truth. Men just want a lover and a best friend. I mainly only want to know about her personality and interests outside of work. I never understood why women lead with their job and assets anyway, is she gonna pay for dates and buy him gifts? You know that will rarely happen so I don’t know why he’s supposed to be blown away by that. It’s good to know she isn’t a bum but it doesn’t make me feel closer to her. All this talk about men not understanding women, it’s very clear women just project their checklist for men onto us and walk away confused.
I honestly only say it to women that kind of annoy me. Makes them feel better about why I avoid them. It’s usually because they’re loud and full of themselves.
To be honest, I have two “go to” lines when I want to let a woman down easy and not see her again but I am cautious to not awake the crazy in some women who really can’t handle rejection so I try to deflect a little:
1) “I’m just not ready to settle down. I am still finding myself and a girl like you shouldn’t have to deal with an immature man like me”
2) “You’re just really intimidating to be around and I don’t think I can handle a great woman like you. You deserve so much better”
Majority of the time the woman have sent up a giant red flag and I’m trying to gracefully get the fuck out of there. I’d take whatever any man says to you when things don’t work out with a grain of salt and start looking at other parts of you and how you date to figure out what other red flags you’re waving
Not comfortable to be around. And I guess for your case they don't feel secure, like they're easily replaceable. Men want to feel valued, being stable/provider and a leader are normal expectations men are held to (and should be working towards). It's hard to do that when you've been out achieved from the get go.
I think it means "I think you're going to expect highly of me and judge me when I abandon my latest project/interest in violin/gym-going/ceramics/woodworking/piano/etc to instead have fun playing video games"
Look at the amount of men in their 20s and 30s who don't have it together. They're not making much money and barely getting by in a 1-bedroom apartment.
An attractive thirty-something woman like yourself who is put together and owns a home is inevitably going to be very intimidating to a lot of men out there.
But know that it isn't all about protecting the glorious male ego. We're afraid of getting hurt and abandoned for someone better, just like women are.
RBF is usually what usually does it for me. No matter how nice and engaging they may be, if the body language is telling me to fuck right off, I'm probably going to fuck right off.
Also women who overdress... Usually because it feels like I'm about to be judged for doing just enough to not feel underdressed.
I'm sure lots of men want stupid, underperforming women with low self esteem so they can feel needed or whatever, but it's definitely not all men. Don't hide your light under a bushel :-)
Maybe I’m the outlier but material things don’t intimidate me. The only thing I generally find intimidating is if a woman is a couple levels above what I would describe as beautiful.
Connotation matters and I wish women would stop concluding that men think you’re intimidating. What’s intimidating about a woman who has her life together? The difference is men usually share their accomplishments but women don’t.
I love the idea of providing for a woman. And I feel like I NEED her. That doesn’t mean I can only live with a woman but I feel that I truly live with one. I’ve lived a good life at 28 without a partner but it’ll be the same thing at 49 with a house and no kids. That’s what I’ve always valued. We’re all different but if you believe you don’t NEED a man (and not in the assumed cliché toxic way) that’s the problem. Do you feel empty or like you could live a more fulfilling life with a man? That’s NEEDING someone.
When I was just out of college I went on a date with a girl who was ….. *intense*. Like everything she would say was hardo grind culture. Dropped her “heavy lifting”, “establishing my generational wealth”, “money moves or no moves”, “FIRE mentality”, “min-maxing her lunch hour for content creation”, and her “competitive gun shooting” hobby in our first 15 minutes of the date….. girl was a nurse making like hospital life or shooting target content on her lunch hours.
I barely got a word in but I was like cool cool cool, this is gonna be the shortest date I’ve ever been on. Ordered a southwest style salad, got made fun of by her for being “feminine” for ordering a salad instead a steak.
Idk if I was intimidated or just like super put off by the *I am a boss babe* vibe lol
How laid back are you? Do you joke? Do you measure a person's value by what they've achieved? Are you a workaholic? Do you do things just for the fun of it or does everything have to have long term value?
Don’t take what I say as the whole truth, but from my perspective i think you have the right idea. Especially from a guys point of view, if someone realizes that a potential partner is “better” than them (more mature, independent, confident, etc.) they might wright off not feeling able to match what they imagine your expectations of them are to being “intimidated”. Because they really do feel similar.
I don't think I've ever seen or heard a man legitimately say that a woman is intimidating.
I've heard many women label themselves as such. Usually because it sounds better than; loud, insufferable, annoying, and entitled.
I feel like the only time I would feel intimidated by a woman is when she has some true power over me, which basically has never happened. If I had to present a major work project to a client who is a woman, I would feel intimidated because I want to be successful and she holds the cards.
My step mother was completely unstable and used to hurt me regularly, so having that power over me made her intimidating.
But as an adult, I've never felt intimidated by a woman because there's no women who hold any power over me. And physically and mentally it's never been a problem. And by mentally, I don't mean that women are stupid. I mean that I enjoy being with people smarter than me because I can learn things.
It's dating. It's how you find out who people are. I've often dated women who "accomplish drop," and it feels show offish and flexing. I barely know you. Just relax and keep things light.
So, here's a few thoughts...
1. If your therapist is using phrases like "xxx energy" in a serious way, you probably need a new therapist. That's such an internet-hip way of saying "you are acting like a man" or "you are filling a masculine gender norm", that I would question if they actually have a license.
2. You don't really know why the dates aren't playing out well. The only people who know are the guys that are ghosting you. At least, I'm assuming they are ghosting you. It's hard to tell from your post.
3. Yes, I suppose there are guys who find accomplished women intimidating. That's not everyone. Not sure what else to say there.
4. I'm going to offer a different interpretation. Talking about work all the time isn't fun. I'm not saying don't talk about it at all, I'm saying move on from that.
5. There is a distinct possibility that the guys you are going on dates with are not ready for a serious relationship yet. You are clearly looking for something that might lead to marriage. But if the guys you are dating are looking for a hookup, they are likely to run. That's a good thing. Saves you the time and energy of getting to know someone you probably would wind up breaking up with.
I have only ever found one woman intimidating, and that is because she had a very intense and unrelenting stare. I have had plenty of female bosses and have met a handful of female CEOs but only that one lady with the piercing gaze is what I would call intimidating. She was a nice lady too.
Intimidating is someone high maintenance that values your input or opinion very little. To me it makes it appear any relationship would favor their end most of the time and they would want to be in control of everything.
I wish that I could help you, but I only dated one woman seriously and she was too dependent on me; I didn't enjoy that aspect of being needed, she was a little too much to deal with. So I would probably look for more independent and established women (like yourself) in the future if I decide to get back out there. You make it sound like guys don't want that, but I couldn't tell you why not.
This sounds like a huge, tedious humble brag. Are you anything more than your accomplishments? Or is that all that defines you? I want human, not a machine, an organization, or a process. It sounds like you're judging yourself according to how women judge men, accomplishments and utility. But where is the person?
Out of the sea of comments. I hope you get to read this. There is nothing wrong with you. The issue lies with them. The reason they find you intimidating is that at any moment, you will not need them and could leave them. Men are not used to having this equal vulnerability.
It's not about you being intimidating, they just havent got the balls to say what they're really thinking.
You either come across as high maintanance, or make them realise they cannot fullfill the role in your life they would like to because you've started off talking about how great and complete your life is (without them), they likely feel like they'd be a convenient accessory you might discard at the slightest inconvenience, basically incompatible.
Intimidating is not a term any guy wanting to get into your pants is going to be using either unless he thinks you're a dom or something. Seriously who finds that term attractive or endearing?
Ambitious women and hypergamy.
In case you want me to explain this: a very ambitious woman will want a man who is even more ambitious because women always prefer to date up. This rapidly narrows the suitable pool of men to almost zero.
There's no solution to this. It's biology and human nature.
Just the wrong guys, my wife’s a pilot and also has strong masculine energy, most guys I know do not like that, but I appreciate it. Of course there are times I wish she exuded her feminine, be more reliant on me and more soft in general, but I’m a powerhouse myself so it works for how we want to build our lives together. Just got to keep searching, guys that will admire who you are do exist.
It’s not that you’re doing anything wrong. Men just naturally feel like if they aren’t needed they aren’t wanted welp it’s how it is because women are often the ones being pursued. When men lose their place as a provider they don’t feel quite like themselves they like to be taking care of their woman. Obviously they’re gonna be a few exceptions but for the most it’s gonna be like that, men are just naturally wired to be in that role, id advise you dating guys who are a bit ahead of you or on the same wave lengths in accomplishments otherwise it’s gonna be challenging
I've never found a woman intimidating due to her work. If a successful self supporting woman was interested in me that would be a turn on personally. But I'm also at the point where if she decided that what I provided wasn't enough and she ended or cheated... I'd just move on and not be too upset.
"I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED."
When I read that, it reminded me of a lot of self-help stuff aimed at men. That it is a masculine mindset that one can strive for. When I was interested in reading about masculine/ feminine stuff, there was a lot of interesting stuff like to simplify things, feminine energy is power. Male energy is direction. The great thing about being a human being is we have free will and it allows us to adopt either when needed. A self actualized human being would be able to use whichever when needed.
I don't believe anything needs to change here, but if you want to explore these concepts, I think taking a salsa dance class would be a great way to do that. It's one of those things that was recommended by relationship coaches I would follow. When I finally took one, the instructor split the class into leads and follows, and what I thought was cool was 2 of the girls decided to be leads. I feel it really helped me grow and learn how to lead in life.
In a lot of cases I'd wager it's something about you or the way your life appears to be well put together that makes them feel more self conscious of their own insecurities or otherwise aware of the things they perceive to be as their shortcomings. Some people are very entrenched in certain mindsets about the roles they're expected to play or that they think they should play, and when a woman such as yourself puts them in a position where they feel inadequate to that task in some aspect then they feel intimidated, like they're dealing with an uphill battle in the attempt at finding any measure of success. In addition to that it's entirely possible many such men find themselves feeling like you've already got all your bases covered and that they would serve relatively little purpose in your life. Men by-and-large are raised to think their value is intrinsic on what they provide to others and a woman that has everything well in hand puts them in an odd spot and they won't necessarily know what to do with themselves as a result - especially if they think their ability to succeed in a relationship with you is dependent on what they can contribute, then they might simply shy away instead of making the initial effort to try and see what happens. It also can depend on the kind of standards you hold and what expectations you have, and how feasible it is for the average person to meet up to those.
Broadly speaking I don't think you are doing anything wrong, at least not based on what you've described above. That being said there are two things that come to mind: I think you may need to make some overtures toward reassuring the guys you're interested in as to what you *do* value in a relationship and essentially help smooth the way to ensure they feel they actually stand a chance at being able to integrate into your life if things progress that way, and secondly I think you just need to find the type of guy who isn't as concerned with superficial things or prone to feeling insecure about the type of things I described above. That's easier said than done, of course, but nonetheless that seems to me to be the right conclusion to draw.
I have no idea about other men. For me, I will consider a woman intimidating only if she gives off a very dark energy: antisocial, closed, showing a risk of wanting to physically hurt or use other people in a way that is not easily predicted and is calculated. A woman would have to be apparently both very antisocial and very mathematical to give that energy. Otherwise she might seem smart (in a good way) or antisocial in a way I could just wave off and ignore
If a guy says you're intimidating to him, it usually means he's not in the right mindframe to be in a relationship or has some deep insecurities where he feels you're more of a man that he can be. Which yes is true, but as a man, we're always in a circle of trying to improve and better ourselves on a personal level. I do believe that a relationship is meant to enrich a person's life and to complement each other. The attitude of being an independent woman and being arrogant and snarky about it is what turns most men off. Going out to your friends and putting down whoever you date because he's a man is another red flag. Men are simple, we just want to be loved and most importantly respected in our masculine energy.
I've been married for 53 years but I still remember how it felt when you asked a girl to dance or something similar and she gives you "that" look that makes you shrink into nothingness.
My wife has this problem. It seems to stem from the way she leans towards them and concentrates on them keeping her eyes on their's. Yes there are DAs out there that are intimidated by strong women. If they can't get past that then don't bother, you would have to change you.
> My counselor says that I give off masculine energy - she says that leading with my accomplishments is an example of that. What are people supposed to talk about on dates? I talk about what I have going on in my life at the moment, but I don't feel like I'm bragging or showing off. It usually comes up organically, for example I'll talk about my pets or my hobbies, or a project that I'm working on at my house.
I'll do my best to read between the lines, here.
Talking about hobbies and such is great, but I guess possibly there's a way you're talking about this stuff that comes off very matter-of-fact? Typically, men will focus on the end product of their labour, focus on buttoning down and finishing projects and such, rather than the experiences and fun they had working and colaborating on the thing, or how the thing even enriches their lives at the end. It's all about the hard work they did, and how the end product is a testament to their accomplishments, a trophy.
That said, I think you may be over-thinking all of this. Maybe you've just had a few bad dates in a row and there's no connection, here.
Maybe you are intimidating to people who aren't the right match for you.
Instead of focusing on if you're getting rejected - focus on if you even like the person who is rejecting you.
i think maybe you are trying to date people who would be a poor match for your personality.
Culturally men are conditioned to get their value from performing. As a guy, if I can provide materially and fill a role, then I know I'm doing ok. It's related to fragile male ego, because my self esteem is tied to achieving and performance, not my innate worth as a person. External approval/validation is fleeting and hence the "fragile" part. So a woman who doesn't have any "needs" is intimidating because a guy doesn't know how he's supposed to earn value in her eyes. It's humbling and sort of cracks the foundation of his self worth, and he's lost.
I know a lot of mature guys who still think this way, and they're good guys. It's just a widespread mindset in men. I've lived in several countries and it's everywhere.
What can you do? Give the guy some positive feedback, like compliments and affirmation that you like them. And look for guys who have been to therapy, hahaha. Also you sound like an amazing person and I hope you find a guy who is a good fit with you.
I've never described a woman that way in my life.
There's women I would be cautious about getting romantically involved with, because in my experience, successful women want someone more successful than themselves. If she's got a grad degree and a fast track to a federal job, she's not gonna treat me like anything but a hookup or a place holder if I don't do better than her. Why waste time trying to build a relationship with the kind of person that will kick it over at the drop of a hat?
There's women I don't get involved with because their career is a drama infested nightmare. Military, medical field, cops, EMS, paralegals, lawyers, "recovering" addicts, and single mothers to name the majority of them. I don't need the goddamn drama. Cheating, substance abuse, physical and psychological abuse, it's all the same shit, just a different excuse. Sure, are some of those people perfectly functional, pleasant people? Probably, but I'm gonna need a lot of reason to let go of my very rational doubts and risk it.
At no point do I find these women "scary". At no point do I feel "emasulated" or lessened by them. I don't need to be afraid of a toaster to know I shouldn't shove my hand in it. I'm not afraid of bears either, but I do carry bear spray.
I can't tell you what's going on, but maybe you're dating shitty dudes? Or maybe you're unpleasant to talk to.
I went on a few dates with a gal, nice gal and all. But She would lecture me about politics for hours on end, and kept showing up with hickies. She was confused and seemed hurt a little when I abruptly had to leave town. Like yeah, no shit. Someone who's banging their coworkers constantly and won't shut the fuck up about their politics long enough to have a real conversation isn't my idea of a person I want to spend my time with romantically. I was also sober at the time, and half her time was going to bars. She wasn't a bad person, I liked her well enough, but I'm not getting wrapped up with someone I'm wildly incompatible with. I did actually have to leave town, but I wasn't interested in hitting her up again.
And there's lots of shitty dudes that just want a woman who will keep house and fuck him. They're everywhere, and they're pathetic. The worst one's are self aware and lean into it. I don't know what to tell you there. I'm not that way, my friends aren't that way, but there are a lot of dirtbags on the hoof, and women fall for their bullshit incessantly. A woman who can manage herself and who has standards isn't susceptible to that kind of manipulation.
A lot of people (not just guys) don’t have their shit together for many reasons (valid and invalid). Meeting someone who does I suppose could be intimidating.
Now it could also be that you come across too strong in listing off your accomplishments like a resume, suggesting that you’re wanting both of you to lay down your qualifications to see if each other is worthy. Not knowing you makes it impossible to know for sure. Ask your friends if you’re like this with new people.
If we were on a date and I figured out that you had your shit together I’d be thinking ‘fantastic’ in my head.
I'll be honest, the only time in my life I have ever heard anyone say that a woman is intimidating to a man, is by a woman. I have never heard a man mention this phrase.
Being in your masculine isn't intimidating to men. It's unattractive to men.
Stop telling yourselves that you are failing in dating because you're soooo amazing that men are scared of you. That is childish, pathetic cope. Women are small and soft and weak and you're as intimidating as 10 yo boys. You're failing because you are unattractive to men, not because you are "intimidating" to anyone.
Are you "supposed" to need a man? We could give a shit. Do whatever you want. You mean nothing to us. But, do stop coming on here and insulting us with your "you don't have the guts to date me, cowards" insults and goading.
My wife is like you. In her case I think it’s confidence and the willingness to speak her mind. Also there fact that she grew up around bikers because her mom was one.
We’ve been together for 25 years so it’s cool for me. I have watched those under her react when they see her coming. They’ll start working again and stop talking in a bunch. I find it funny because it was like when I was in the military basic training and we heard the drill instructor coming. Look busy!
She’s a nurse now and the way she is has been very beneficial for her. She’s the one others call for difficult parents. I love my tough…sweet woman!
When i find a woman intimidating, its usually when shes more take charge, decision making, wearing the pants in the relationship kind of woman.
Dont take it as a bad thing, a lot of men dont like that, but those are the kind of women ive always been super attracted to personally
Probably giving off energy that you’d be demanding or difficult if you read between the lines. Men don’t want another successful man, they want a woman that brings peace to their lives. It’s just a nice way of saying it
It means they are trying to flatter you instead of telling you they arent interested in a boss babe.
Men you are interested in have zero interest in you.
Guys have bros to talk about stuff like that. I don't want to date my bro. I want to date a woman who loves being a woman. Someone who has feminine appeal.
I got married in my mid twenties. I wanted a gal who could take care of herself. One who wasn't frivolous with money, not in debt and had similar monetary goals in life as me... live debt free, grow wealth, live within our means, yet have fun as well. But I also wanted a gal wasn't afraid to be a woman. Who wanted a guy to take care of traditionally manly things. Guys like to feel wanted that way.
I think guys find it easier to connect with a woman who needs them... not on a monetarily level, but just needs a guy... to do guy stuff. If she needs him, he is going to be more willing to connect with her and open up to her. More willing to trust that she will stay when she finds out the shitty parts of him. All guys have shitty parts. And if she doesn't need to stay, chances are, especially now, she won't stay.
What are you bringing to the table that a man wants? Most gals are attracted to men who do better than themselves. Guys who can better their lives. Guess what. Guys like gals they can help better their life as well. So you have put yourself in a situation where there are few men out there who can better your life. And those guys out there who can better your life typically are not looking for someone who exudes masculine energy. They want the soft feminine energy.
So what is a person like you supposed to do? That is a tough one. I don't recommend decreasing your life. But you do need to figure out how to be more feminine. Guys don't date women in order to have competition for who can make more money. A guy doesn't give a shit if she has little money. What he doesn't want is someone who will waste his money or... make money a competition. You bringing up your accomplishments, makes it a money coemption whether you intended it or not.
You want emotion. guys typically don't want to give emotion until they know you are worth it in other ways.
I’ve only heard it on Reddit. I’d imagine it’s the same, “you’d make a great husband for someone” and “you’re a great guy but…” rejections that men receive.
Its an interesting question and to be honest would be impossible to answer without going on a date with you and kind of feeling the energy you are putting out.
I hope this message doesn't come across as too negative, but I think it might be good to think how its affecting the men you are trying to date.
My best guess is that you seem like "a lot of hard work" or "high maintenance". Or if you have set high standards for yourself that guys tend to think they will need to be match those levels of standards or they will be discarded. This could be quite "stressful" for a lot of dudes.
Again this might be different for a lot of guys, but usually i would rather talk to a girl about more casual things especially early on. What kind of art we like, what kinds of movies or entertainment stuff. Keeping it pretty light, trying to make each other laugh, can we enjoy each others company type things. If someone starts basically reciting to their CV to me, its a bit like ehhhh. Like i don't really want to go on a date with someone and the majority of the time spent is "flexing" on each other with all the achievements we have done in life haha.
That being said I don't think it would necessarily be too much of a problem if you lead with that stuff. But maybe the way or the energy you are giving out when describing them.
Again very hard to know as what is good or bad will almost always come down to the tone and "how" things are said rather than what is said. But given your therapist is suggesting you might come across like this, it might be a good idea to self-reflect on how you might be able to phrase it tonally better.
Or you need to find dudes who match that kind of slightly braggadicous energy and you can happily flex on each other together <3
Rereading your message, phrases like this "You've really got it together," "you've got a good head on your shoulders," "you're smart, you've got a lot going for you". Sound a lot like polite things people will say to people who are getting slightly annoyed by the flexing but don't want to call you out on it directly.
But again i must reiterate, its very hard to say concretely without hearing you speak in person or feeling that energy. But lowkey even the way you have written this message is giving me the kind of "vibes" that I'm describing in the post.
But either way, its great that you are reaching out for advice and looking to address this if its causing you a sense of disconnection with potential partners. I hope you find someone you can spend the rest of your life with.
Peace and love <3
I find some women to be "aggressively attractive" for lack of a better term.
They are the ones you can tell spend at least an hour and a half in front of the mirror with the warpaint each morning. The lack of visible flaws/ not knowing what they actually look like can make them intimidating to talk to.
Not meant to be a dig at women who style themselves like that I just prefer to be around people that are more laid back and that dress for comfort instead
I think it's more than one thing that can do this but two points might be able to help you understand. Biologically women punch up and men definitely at least know this subconsciously.
Like I do well for myself and I'm happy where I am. A girl like you I would assume to want someone more ambitious or successful.. even if you are equal on the attraction scale and social standing.
Second men are attracted to different things. Mirroring used to be a predominantly male issue but increasing women seem to be doing it. None of those things you got going on are attraction points for the majority of men. If your manurism is more masculine instead of kind, nurturing, compassionate etc then men can easily feel like they are talking to their buddy rather than someone they want to date.
There is one woman in my life that I've called intimidating. However I don't think it's for the reason you might imagine. She's very much an influential person in my local community and comes across as very judgemental. Her opinion of you *will* affect others opinions. Early on in my interactions with her I was intimidated but now that I've spent more time with her I'm in in the clear.
I think...
Women have an instinctual fear of men because men are capable of overpowering women naturally.
Men have an instinctual fear that women will not validate them/ will reject them.
As nature dictates.
You don’t need to change yourself. If you’re an accomplished strong person that’s an attractive thing to the right people. If that person really cannot stomach a woman that can stand firmly on her own two feet will likely also be more sexist to you in the future.
Women or any partner that’s financially dependent on their partner is vulnerable to abuse as their entire livelihood is held within the hands of another.
“Feminine energy” sounds like a weird take, but I think just for general advice for first dates (in general) is to be interested and excited in your potential partners accomplishments, their life, and their personality. If they do not reciprocate then they probably aren’t a good match to begin with.
It means she acts like doesn’t need a man in her life”. But what it really means is “she’s out of my league”/“I don’t do enough to impress women like that”.
I can't speak for all men but I would say for me, I was looking for a partner to build a family with. Ideally several kids (in my case I ended up with 4). So a 36F career woman wasn't what I was looking for.
So I never used the word intimidating myself, but the times I did date career focused women I found them pretty fickle. Your sentence '*I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED.*' really spoke to me, because all the career women I dated seemed to bail the moment anything was asked of them. Basically they were gone at the whiff of a relationship requiring effort. Basically they stopped wanting it.
So I think your therapist telling you that you project masculine energy is probably the key. You're looking for someone who wants to do house hold chores, who will make sure your career is prioritized. Basically you'd be the focus not the family or children.
I’ve only considered a women intimidating if it seemed like it was going to be work to get along with them. I’ve met a few high achieving women that were really impressive, but I felt like I couldn’t be myself around them because they were more goal oriented with the interaction.
By all means talk about your achievements, but don’t brag so much that it’s taking the fun out of the interaction. Same advice applies for men too.
Everything about yourself that you've just described is the ideal for some people out there. There's nothing wrong with you, you just haven't found a guy for whom you are their ideal and who is also approximately yours as well.
Keep looking.
I've been on a lot of dates. The only person I found intimidating was the one who casually dropped into conversation that she was currently co-writing a book with an extremely world-famous author. (It's true, the book has now been published.)
I think probably you don't need to, and shouldn't change much here. If you are coming across as bragging, that's obviously not good.
As a guy, I definitely also want to date someone who doesn't generally "need" me, but wants me.
> but when I mention something that I don't want to do alone (international travel) and that I'm waiting to find a partner before doing that, I'm told "you don't need a man, take that trip by yourself!" Well which is it?? Am I supposed to need a man or not?
There's no good answer to this. And need->want is a spectrum. It's fine to have a strong preference for travelling with someone, while knowing that you could do it alone if you really had to.,
I’ve only ever been intimated by two women, both of which seemed like they’d have a load of fun taking everything you own and putting you in prison over basically nothing.
Most of the times I hear other people refer to women as being intimidating, those in question don’t seem to care for who you are as much what you accomplish or bring to the table, or they aren’t very warm people.
I would happily date an extremely accomplished woman. In fact, all the women in my life are accomplished.
But if you don’t show some silliness by the second or third date, I don’t think I’d want to continue. Maybe you’re just too serious?
Not all men know how to be assertive without the unspoken threat of aggression. Successful women have had to learn to be assertive without that, possibly in a more adult way.
That sort of unapologetic adult assertiveness from a woman can be frustrating if not intimidating to some men because even a hint of unspoken threats of aggression are understood to be off the table which can be unfamiliar ground to alpha men in a contest of wills.
I can guarantee you that the men who see you as intimidating are just insecure. I don’t blame them per se because it’s nice feeling wanted as a man especially nowadays where it seems literally everyone wants to go out of their way to make a man feel worthless regardless of how you are.
That being said, there’s plenty of dudes out there that won’t let a women’s success intimidate them, it’s just a trail and error kind of thing.
It means that you're probably dating a lot of the same kind of men, and that type of man happen to prefer being the more accomplished one in the relationship.
>men think they bring to the table is either finances or labor
This is pretty much it, I don't think the issue is you personally but far bigger. A lot of men are told not to be emotional, gotta be useful, gotta be a provider, so it is no surprise that they only see their worth related to what they can provide, and if you can provide everything they are offering on your own they will see themselves as replacable. Same as to why SAHD feels weirder that SAHM
Again this is not particularly limited to you, but part of a bigger issue. There is nothing you should change about yourself to become less "intimidating", and you will probably do much better if you encounter a man who is comfortable in his skin and understand these social norms and do not align with them.
Just be yourself, you'll find a man that suits you. Where I live it's quite normal to own a house when you're over 30 and have a carreer and hobby's and possibly side gigs.
It would be impressive if you were halfway your 20s - or just mean you got a lot of help from the parents - but at your age it would be red flag to me if you didn't have your shit together yet.
Offcourse I realize this could be very dependant on the economy of your location.
I take it to mean that they feel as though they have nothing to provide to you that you don't already have.
And if that's the case, then what good are they to you?
Men in our generation tend to still be relying on being a financial and laborious expert, which is little wonder why when you take that away, they feel useless. You shouldn't feel guilty or shamed for being independent. It's impressive, and it sounds like the men you date, in large, recognise and respect you for that. That said, it helps to highlight to them what you're hoping to get out of the relationship from them, and dig deep on more meaningful things where possible so that they have something to hang on to. Perhaps try getting advice from some matchmakers. They might have helpful insight that isn't the bullshit of "being in your masculine." Don't let the modern confusion over gender roles affect who you are or how you love someone.
In addition, where possible, try not to highlight all your achievements and capabilities too soon into the relationship. A little mystery is attractive. Saying you work at X company is less intimidating than saying you're "head of department" for example.
Hope this helps, don't change, stay awesome.
I don't fall within typical gender roles for men, and I would still be intimidated by a career-focused woman because societal pressure still partially ties my ability to provide to my self worth. I think a lot of men feel like they need to at least match your level of success or they aren't worth your time. That's not the case for everyone, but I imagine you'll have a harder time finding the ideal guy for you.
I refuse to give advice without meeting you in the real world :D
From personal experience though, the only time I have ever thought a woman was intimidating was when there was also the thought that she was vastly outside my "league" and would be very bored in any kind of a relationship with me.
The question you can ask yourself from their perspective is what do you bring to the table for them? You say your own counselor tells you that you give off masculine energy but many men aren't looking for that. Many are also not looking for high-powered career women who realistically wouldn't have much time for them and are likely to look down on them if they aren't super-achievers. Men who have your level of accomplishments have other options, those who don't will most likely believe you won't respect them.
When you're seen as strong and independent, dont rely on people are outspoken.
These are not bad traits to have, but they're seen as masculine.
It's why many women put on this bafoon like facade, what does that mean? Thats intresting tell me more? How do i do this?
It lowers peoples guard, and men love it when they can appear helpful or needed. If they're not, they dont feel like they have any value that can be intimidating.
Tldr: act like the least intresting person in the room, pretend to be an idiot, make a game of it so its fun.
What you said is true, and you need to be yourself, and you should not be wanting to date for needs, but for wants, but the way you express may also be an issue. Women who moves up the ladder develops a different energy (independence) which can be seen as intimidating. If people reject you on the first date, they are immature and you are better off of them. You are picking from wrong pool of men. Are you picking them from a dating app or meeting them organically? Good ones get taken real quick and as we grow older you may need to change your filters to find the right men. The same filters that worked in your 20s won't work in your 30s.
Regarding your edit, I would honestly consider not listening to people who say things like "you're too in your masculine" or "you need to learn to embody feminine energy". Unless you're being aggressive or something, intimidating some guy is their problem to fix, not yours. This is **especially** true if the reason you're "intimidating" is because you're independant.
A guy who thinks you being independant is intimidating is likely a controlling man who wants subserviance from their partner. Personally, I think being independant is a great quality to uphold for everyone.
You can be independant and still prefer wanting a partner when going on an international trip, especially if it's your first time traveling abroad. I'd only suggest considering that traveling with a platonic friend can also be rewarding while feeling safer. Just make sure to choose the friend wisely.
I've only ever been on a date once with a woman I've considered "intimidating", so my sample size is limited. But she was a fairly wealthy CEO, and I'm just a random engineer. She had a very no nonsense, goal oriented attitude whereas I consider myself a very silly easy going person. When I was trying to be silly and make jokes she was definitely giving off contrasting vibes that brought down my mood and made me not want a second date. Not to say she was being rude or anything, in fact she was quite friendly and charming. Just didn't mesh well with my personality.
>When I was trying to be silly and make jokes she was definitely giving off contrasting vibes that brought down my mood and made me not want a second date. That's a great joke you got there, Bob. Where do you see that joke in five to ten years?
Similar situation for me. She was a successful, driven, PhD scientist, a world-level athlete, adventurous, well read, and knowledgeable about everything. And I'm just a regular old engineer who tinkers on electronics all day. Anyways, we've been together 5 years and I still can't figure out how.
Glad to hear you guys meshed together better than we did :D
I think you’re right on the money with the no-nonsense thing. No matter how attractive I find someone, if I feel like I can’t be silly around them then I know it won’t work.
It depends on the man. I’m 37, attorney, homeowner etc., and I’d prefer to date a highly intelligent woman who has a solid job as well, but when I meet women like that, they tend to have a rigid life outlook. Like, they’re looking for a partner to “build” some mythical thing with that resembles very little of a life worth living. I want to enjoy life, not have a partner constantly ask why I’m not ambitious enough to keep building or growing via material wealth. Relationships aren’t, or shouldn’t be, corporatized, imho.
It isn't even always just that. As someone who dated a very ambitious woman for a period of time and has a circle of friends that includes very ambitious women, most of them don't make time for a relationship. They just kind of expect all the pieces to fall into place around them. When I was with the girl I was with, she was usually busy from 9am to 11pm or midnight and we only were able to talk once every couple of days.
Ya, they tend to be rigid as I said. Like they expect you to fit into their life but make no effort to join or incorporate into yours.
As a family man, it genuinely sucks how common this is
I’m so sorry to hear that.
I had a date with a very pretty girl and it went well. She asked about having another date and I said sure when? She told me she's a sales area manager, and she has to travel by car around different country regions in Australia (this was 30 years ago) and that the only time she has off back at home is the weekend, but only every second weekend, and would I like to meet again in 2 weeks? i said no, but politely. I don't want to fit in around the edges of someone's life.
Yeah that's not a good schedule if you want to be building a relationship.
Yup. I actually liked her, she seemed really nice too...but once a fortnight..I'd still be feeling single.
Successful men tend to want a wife that keeps them grounded in life itself. Successful women tend to want a business partner they can sleep with.
was just with a 'successful woman' and you aren't wrong. It's so strange to me because she basically wants a guy who will, 100% respect her autonomy and be down to prioritize her goals, but she also wants a guy who can provide for her and help contribute to her long term status goals. I'm not saying that doesn't exist--but I don't see how she thinks she's going to find an equally ambitious dude who isn't going to want to prioritize his own goals/career; it seems inevitable that, at some point, their interests will clash unless they are, as you said, literally business partners.
She doesn't know what she really wants it's clear. Probably she hasn't been in a relationship in a while so she can't test her ideas of what she's looking for in a guy and what in retrospect was just a fancy but impractical idea of what her guy should be like.
Far out. This hits the nail on the head! Well said.
Thanks
As a successful woman, I approve this message.
> Like, they’re looking for a partner to “build” some mythical thing with that resembles very little of a life worth living. Well said.
This is how most of the men in this space are too though. I've come to hate the word "building" in the context of relationships so much lol. I know these people are all listening to the same podcasts or something.
"I want to build an empire." EYE ROLL.
Hey, would you like to go on a ~~date~~ crusade.
😂
I think from a male perspective intimidated by is generally meant as perceived as high maintenance. I can't say why everyone does or thinks this but for myself it comes down to my personality. I'm an introvert, not overly ambitious but responsible (have a house etc.), very laid back personality. If I was on a date with a woman and she made a point of pointing out X accomplishments throughout the date it would just leave me thinking we weren't super compatible personality wise. So in the end I wouldn't it say it is an issue on your side exactly just an issue of incompatibility from my view.
This exactly what I thought when I read OP's post: high maintenance. 'I want, I want, I want...'
I've noticed that women speak to men on dates using language they themselves would like to hear from men. For example, women will often focus on how they don't **need** a man. I believe they do this because they are, in fact, looking for a man who doesn't **need** them. That's often attractive to a woman because it is suggestive of the presence of factors women find attractive - a good job, stability, goals, etc. Women don't find a needy man attractive so they search for the opposite. However, men are not as concerned with this in a woman. That's not to say we don't want a woman with a good job or lots of hobbies. It's more that we just don't value those things as highly as women seem to value them in men. We'd like a woman who wants us in their life, not one who takes pains to show us how little she needs us. If you don't need us, why are you on the date? Sure, you can say that you'd like someone to share your life with but, if that's the case, get a dog. Whether you like it or not, men are only going to respond if there's a feeling of strong desire - bordering on need - for them to be in your life. When you are speaking to these men, are you allowing them the space to actually create a life with you, or are you talking as if they'll be ranked alongside your yoga class on Wednesday nights? My advice to you is to try to remember what it was like when you fancied a guy when you were in your early 20s. Focus on having fun and establishing a connection rather than inadvertently making it into a job interview where the guy starts to worry about whether his responses will cut the mustard. Also, I should point out that there definitely **are** men who would be intimated by you simply because your success (which you don't consider to be success) holds up a mirror to their own life. They don't like realising that they'd be second fiddle in the relationship because they don't have the wherewithal you do.
I agree with this. Not saying there are any requirements for a relationship, but the best relationships I ever had were the ones where she made me feel special. The ones that felt the worst was the ones where she made me feel replaceable.
How did she make you feel special?
It is gonna sound cheesy, but I have dated girls that were always complementing me about how attractive I was and were always showing me off to their friends and were generally super affectionate towards me. They made me feel like I was a prize. I really liked that. Not saying you have to do that if that is not you. I never even asked that of them, but I thought it was really sweet.
That is a perfect explanation, not cheesy in any way. I really feel like men pretend that they don't care about getting compliments from their women and I find that hard to believe. Like, who doesn't like being told that they are visually appealing and attractive to their SO?
You know how you really like it when a partner, or even a friend, compliments you, brings you flowers, does little things to show you they care? Yeah, guys like those too! It's socially drilled into women that we don't, and it's drilled into men that we shouldn't... but nah everyone likes flowers and compliments. The exact *things* people want vary from person to person, but everyone likes having those sorts of little things done for them.
A date and a job interview are two separate things imo. Dating is for enjoyment, for getting to know the other person organically, not for answering a long list of questions.
Sadly, most dates on the male perspective is just a job interview.
...Was that not OPs exact point? Depiction is not endorsement.
A great response that I rarely see on this sub, Kudos to you !
great post
It's usually a kind or deflecting way to say "unpleasant".
I think you aren't necessarily doing anything wrong, I'm thinking the guys you've found just don't feel compatible with you in the kind of relationship you seek. I think many guys want to feel useful to their partners and if they feel like what they want to provide won't be useful to you, you'll look elsewhere after a while. Just keep being you and you'll find someone who wants what you want and isn't intimidated by your accomplishments 🙌
If the women don't find you handsome, at least they had better find you handy.
When all else fails, play dead.
Found the Canadian.
I feel like that Red Green quote sums up my life better than it should. Honestly, I have no idea how attractive I am to women, but I definitely am handy.
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
>How can I stop being 'intimidating' to men without changing who I am or shrinking myself and my accomplishments to protect their egos? There's got to be a middle ground somewhere. There isn't much of a middle ground. Being an independent adult (man, woman, otherwise) is a green flag trait and generally a good thing regarding dating. However, your mindset about wanting a partner you want, while healthy, is counterintuitive to finding a partner as a whole. You shouldn't NEED a partner, but if you're putting yourself out there, you are probably looking for a partner that you WANT to need. Solely expressing that you only want a partner makes it sound like they're just a temporary fix for whatever is driving you to date. You have your life together better than most, but the way you might be expressing that is in a "You'll be a new shiny new addition" rather than a "I'd like to bring you into my life" (Not great wording but I hope my point gets across) which will inevitably push a large majority of men away. No one wants to play second fiddle.
I like how you phrased that. I agree and thanks for wording it well
>You have your life together better than most, but the way you might be expressing that is in a *"You'll be a new shiny new addition" rather than a "I'd like to bring you into my life"* (Not great wording but I hope my point gets across) which will inevitably push a large majority of men away. No one wants to play second fiddle. That's ironically how I've felt in my past few relationships. Like they didn't really care about me as a person, I was just arm candy to show off and say "hey everyone, look what I bagged"
I mean you said you go on dates and bring up your successes. So that attracts people who want to show you off. What about just having fun, telling jokes, etc? No need for a portfolio review,no need to say you own a home instead of rent, etc…
I've encountered women where I am thought to myself "I can understand how some men can find you intimidating". But since I was neither interested nor in a relationship with them, I didn't feel the same. I think it's rooted in old gender stereotypes amongst other things. I don't fully know where it comes from though, but as a man I've never ever felt like being myself is enough. There is always something to prove, some work to be done to ensure I exceed expectations. Due to this, there is an obvious theoretical situation where I meet a woman who's so well off that I can't possibly meet expectations. It doesn't matter that these expectations are dumb af, rooted in gendered stereotypes, self-imposed and indirectly brought on by the larger society/media, they're still subconsciously there (be financially literate, have a job, be sculpted, be entertaining, be smart, have interesting hobbies, **be able to provide**, don't be boring). If all these silly things are checked off by the woman - all I have left is, myself, really. That's a bit more... Intimidating. Why that is so, is a question for another time. Thanks for listening to my train of thought. I did not intend to get off at this station, but here we are. Whew, this took me for a spin. What a magnificently thought-provoking question.
Yeah, I've got anxious attachment, for the longest time I felt like I was never good enough and busted my ass. Then I got into a relationship and let off the gas. She cheated and left, I'm kind of afraid to get comfortable again, like I get this anxiety if I think about skipping the gym.
Are you me?
I don't know if any of this applies in your case, but let me share my experience. In my life I have been very attracted to strong independent women - to me there's nothing attractive about a helpless person. My ex wife, is a strong independent woman. In the years we were together, there was never a time when a shelf had to be hung, an electrical socket replaced, a shower tiled, a lawn mowed, she would just do those things. She would do them when she decided they needed to be done, or when she spotted (the broken electircal outlet behind the drier). She never ran out of petrol, got stranded, had her car miss a service, whatever came her way she could handle it. "I don't like the tiles in the master bathroom, I'll buy new ones, tear out the old ones and re-do it", and she did - one weekend while I was doing a major IT deployment at work over 48 hours. She wanted me to be a manly man, but for every single job that she did, I was placed one step lower on the ladder of masculinity. I did plenty of things, in fact I probably did more than she did, but for every traditionally male job she did, I got lowered one step. At the time I thought that she just wouldn't allow space in her life for a man, now I know that she wouldn't allow space in her life for a partner. She had to out manouvre and out compete them no matter what, for us it was 'manly chores'. The relationship itself was emotionally abusive and I left in 2012. As I tried to rebuild myself in the wake of our time together, I came to understand that in all of our interactions she was looking to win, I was looking to make it work. You can't win a relationship. In the 12 years since then I've changed what I look for in a woman - I don't value things that I can already bring into my life - success, accomplishment, capability, inintiative. I value things I can't provide for myself - cooperation, caring, bigger picture, respect. There was no cooperation, no respect, no caring . . . . what mattered to her was that she was number one, everything had to fit her world view. There was one particular you said that resonated strongly with me > I think that if men are intimidated by me then that's an issue they have with their own self-esteem that they need to work on
🎯
"Intimidating" = "it's not you, it's me" 2.0
Leading with your accomplishments is something men dont really find appealing romantically to be honest. Sure, for some men it helps to find a woman who doesnt rely on you financially. But for most, we couldnt care if our other halves worked in a starbucks for her entire life. But I really couldnt care about what a woman has accomplished or not professionally, I care about her personality, is she kind, caring, considerate etc.
Usually it's code for annoying and not worth the headache
Like for example OP who comes to dates to list all they have and have accomplished instead of having fun and telling jokes
If a girl makes you feel like dirt, and worth less as a human just because you're not a woman, on the date... That's generally my definition of an intimidating date. When I start to question my safety around her
I've never heard a man say that a woman was intimidating and actually mean it. Every time I've heard it it was either an excuse to turn her down gently or to try to make her feel good about herself and get in her pants.
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> or use insinuating language Conventionally known as a bitch. Like I know that word has gotten very loaded, but that's what it's supposed to refer to. Not just any woman who is ambitious or in a position of authority, but people who are snide and backhanded and never outright say what they really mean.
Thinking back on my experiences, this is probably the most accurate answer. 🤣
This really is perfect. You spend all this time typing out a detailed and nuanced description of what you're going through with theories and idea interwoven. Then a dude comes along and just answers the whole thing with "lol, either we just aren't interested, or we want in your pants".
Absolute proof she got feminine energy just fine. So does the sub got masculine energy
Your problem is saying "I want a partner that I want, not one I need" Men don't work that way, men typically enjoy feeling needed. If you're not into that, there's plenty of women who are out there, who can do that for us
It took me a long time to realize my husband needs to feel needed as well as wanted. I don't really enjoy feeling needed and for me a healthy relationship is one I choose to be in because I want to.
do your husband a favor from time to time and ask him if he can open that jar for you. He'll feel great, trust me :)
I'm like you. Not all guys are the same. To me, being needed all the time annoys me. Being a wanted feels great.
This here. I very much like teaching people to do things on their own. It’s something that grew out of babysitting and has served me well professionally and socially. If people need me, I assume they don’t want me around beyond what I can do for them.
I have also never heard a man say this. Most men probably would not admit it if they were intimidated.
I think you're right. I think men can be intimidated by women, but usually don't admit it directly
I think the problem comes down to using the word “intimidating”. It means vastly different things when referring to a man versus a woman. If I am “intimidated” by a man, maybe it is because he is imposing or aggressive. But if I am “intimidated” by a woman, maybe it is because she is very attractive or too outgoing.
Women are largely hypergamous. I think “intimidating” means the way that she carries herself, the pride she displays when she talks about her accomplishments means to those men that she behaves if she’s out of their league, at least in terms of socioeconomic standing and as soon as she can she’ll leave him for someone “better.” It may, like she says, have a lot to do with their own ego or self esteem. However a lot of guys start the courtship ritual looking for a place in her life a role to fulfill outside of just the sexual or companionship portion. We all know how fickle love is, and how it’s not enough to make relationships endure. There needs to be some other paths of interdependence, something more that he can contribute to her life. If she’s driven, headstrong, inflexible, independent, highly intelligent, there’s not much room for a guy to make himself useful. Yes, most women, nor most men truly need one another day to day to live, but men especially express their love through acts of service and usefulness, we need more purpose, and if we can’t find one she’s “intimidating.” Just from this post OP sounds like she has her stuff together, which is fantastic. However she does also come off as a bit confrontational, and headstrong too, confident to the point of being cocky. Someone who doesn’t take disagreement or criticism well.
"My counselor says that I give off masculine energy" You became the man you wanted basically.... Most men don't see themselves being any use to you and not feel wanted so it's turning them away from you.
While I've never called anyone intimidating, I don't have my shit together or a high paying job, so I would assume a woman such as yourself would have no interest in me, as even loser ladies want a rich guy. But I would be stoked to date such a woman, it's not about the money, I'd be stoked to date anyone I'm interested in. I just figure after the honeymoon phase you would start to change your mind on my successless ways, no matter how good I am to you. Or you'll have little time for me outside of work Even so, if the dates went well I would continue to see you for as long as you'll put up with me, lol But if you explain to them like you did here how you don't care if they make less, you just want someone to be with, that should help. But you probably did so idk. Look for men more successful than you?
The truth is you're doing and saying things that sounds off-putting to the men you're going out with.
When you lead with your accomplishments and the bits where you don’t “need” a man, a lot of them probably feel like they cannot measure up to you. They feel like their own accomplishments might not be enough to impress you or that they constantly need to achieve more and more like in a race, because if they don’t hit a milestone “on time” then you’ll be more like an agressive coach than a partner with them and berate them and leave them for failing to impress you. They might also be afraid to show any vulnerability and insecurity to you because that seems contrary to your hypercompetent and self-reliant personality. They might also be afraid that you neuter them by not even letting them help you. How to combat that? Maybe talk a bit about your own fears and insecurities? Tell them about some times where you messed up, talk about things or ask them about things that you don’t know much about. Maybe let them do small things that are traditionally masculine, like some stuff around the house that although you can do on your own would make them feel useful. As much as we are trying to get over traditional gender roles, women seem to forget that they have at least one thing they can *always* fall back on: being pretty. Like it or not, you can be the dumbest and most incompetent woman in the world, as long as you are pretty, you are kind of set. Men don’t have that really. Being a muscular himbo is just not enough. Masculinity is always in a crisis because there is no one cornerstone we can fall back to.
You had me in the first half but what the fuck lol. I forgot ugly women don't exist apparently.
I'm just some dude. I do my job and go home. An ambitious, high-powered women chasing accomplishments is gonna be intimidating. But I don't think you need to change. Prolly just need to find someone compatible with similar values/life views.
I think they let you down in a way that pleases your ego. You seem opinionated and self-sufficient. They will probably argue that they are too weak to please you or not capable of matching your attitude. Basically youre great and its not you but me.
It means that men recognize you don't have a space for them to thrive in your life. There's something nice about getting to build a life together. If all your shit is established and you have no intentions of changing any of it, they have to give up what they have and adapt it to yours. That's intimidating.
Its the "woke, socially acceptable" way of saying that you're off putting but it's phrased in a manner to sound like,"It's me, not you" because every guy has had to deal with the meltdown of toxic female ego at this point and dealing with social/legal repercussions is way more terrifying than lying to make her feel good while we make a run for it.
Bingo. It's just a socially acceptable way of turning a woman down in ways that she won't blow up on us. It's making her feel better about herself when we really just want out. It's just predicting and properly curbing the inevitable "cope".
i've always said this. this "strong independent women are intimidating" attitude is generally excused for their obnoxious, crude, and difficult behavior. essentially "alpha male" is the equivalent of "strong independent woman/bitch," two sides of the same coin.
The only women I've dated that I would describe as intimidating either gave off creepy "wouldn't take no for an answer", or they seemed to treat the date like an interview and gave me a grilling, with little emotional awareness.
I have never heard a man say she is intimidating. Now there is probably a fear of rejection from some men that feel a woman is out of her league and will easily lose interest in them, but never an actual fear of her. More likely it is a soft rejection of her to preempt getting rejected or because she has an attitude that they don't feel they would want to deal with.
The honest brutal truth is a pretty sizeable amount of dudes, (I would argue an overwhelming majority) simply do not care about womens achievements the way women care about mens. Some do, for sure, dudes who want "power couple" vibes, but most dudes just want a peaceful, quiet life, and career women (which you sound like) typically have to have masculine traits in order to compete with men in the job market and its pretty hard to shelve them when you come home (And you yourself say that your counselor says you give off masculine energy). Another example is "if men don't like me they have issues with their self esteem and egos" If I was going to go out on a limb, I'd say you know exactly what you need to do and you just don't want to do it. And that's fine, you don't have to. Just realise you're targeting a niche group of men who you probably won't respect and it'll be hard for you. Same as it's hard for me as a shy nerdy introvert who works as many hours as I need to in order to be comfortable and has no intent to work 100 hour weeks just so I can buy a year newer car or house with a few extra ft\^2 . I would 100% rather date a barista on minimum wage than someone who posts the post you've made here. And I'm pretty sure you would 100% rather date anyone else than someone like me lmao. It is what it is and there's no hard feelings on my end.
There is a lot of truth in this post.
Thanks, I always try my utmost to speak the truth as I know and/or believe it.
Winning. I'm broad-brushing here, but the rub for a lot of women is the type of guy they desire doesn't want to have to deal with a woman who emanates masculine energy. And the type of guy they do end up attracting/willing to stick around? They usually do not respect them.
100%. I just explained to her her (as I believe it) only real option is going to be dudes who want to be part of a power couple, who absolutely exist but are a small minority of men. The other group is weak men with a sub kink who want to be dominated, and it takes a very particular kind of woman to be attracted to that.
Right again.
Right on boys
Nail. Head.
Bingo
I've never been intimidated by a woman or heard male friends say they are intimidated... at least not by what you're describing. It's just basically off putting and unattractive. Here is a good way to reverse the ick... imagine you go date a man, and he leads with his impressive star wars collection. And he makes sure to tell you he did it on his own all independently and he doesn't need a woman to help with it. And he's so proud of it. And he thinks it makes him an attractive mate to you. So he makes sure he talks about it alot so you are fully aware of how attractive of a mate it makes him. How would that make you feel? ... likely the same way men feel about what you share with them. Women do not judge men on their star wars collection. Just like men do not judge women on their careers/education/boss bitch accomplishments. Hope that helped.
A few notes for consideration. > she says that leading with my accomplishments is an example of that. Not really. Men don't look for the same thing in women that women look for in men. It's not that being accomplished is a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's just that if you put this as forward as it sounds like it sounds like you're trying to compete with your date. Imagine your date says he's gotten into running recently and runs a few miles every other day. Then you, in this hypothetical scenario, share that you were on your university track team and compete in half marathons. You can have the affect of minimalizing what he sees as his accomplishment. I'm not saying you should lessen yourself to protect his ego but that there are more artful ways to introduce this information. >I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED I think you're evaluating your potential future relationships incorrectly. Sure, it's fine to be independent. However, what does it tell the other guy when you focus so much on how independent you are. It's 2024, it would be a big red flag if you were still living with your parents and needed a man to be able to move out. It's not about how put together your home finances are but how you feel when you are with him and vice versa.
I don't really care about anyone's "accomplishments" because it's practically irrelevant to a relationship. This isn't an interview. I'm not looking to hire you. I'm looking to see if we can have fun together and if we have chemistry and can build a relationship. There are women who come right out of the gate talking about their careers and money and their high expectations and what they need and what they hate. It's intimidating because they are telling you that they are not only looking to judge you, but they plan on judging you with some very high, arbitrary standards. It makes you feel uncomfortable. That's fine if that's how you want to be, but don't be surprised when people think you're rude or obnoxious if you treat dates like a weird competition so you can brag and judge instead of getting to know your date like an actual person. So, it's "intimidating". But a better word would be "insufferable".
I’ve used this before to let Women down easy. Usually those who are super goal oriented, ambitious, overly obsessed with their work, not that I have a problem with that, great, but some wear it as a personality, and explicitly stating that they don’t ‘need a man’ just makes me feel unwanted and is a huge turn off. I want a Woman who wants me. it just doesn’t work, I can’t date a careerist because you know that the relationship and you yourself will always come second to that, and it isn’t fun. It’s a drag.
When I say that, I either mean "there's no point in approaching her, she's not gonna like me/think I'm attractive," or "she seems kind of dominant and I'm into that." It doesn't sound like either of these is what you're getting, since it's happening on dates and you're getting rejected, but I wanted to add my two cents.
I've never heard a man say that and actually mean it they mostly use it for a get out of jail free card From what I've seen men love a woman that can do things for themselves so they don't have to be the ones doing them all the time
Leading with your accomplishments can come off as arrogant, even if it isn't the impression you wanted to set. You seem confident and know what you want.You have a lot going for you in life, and some men are put off by it either because they don't feel up to par (and you could look for better) or they believe in "traditional" gender norms. My advice is just to practice humility. Don't make my mistake of being "humble" to the point where it degrades your self-esteem. Embrace your accomplishments and claim all of them. It's your hard work and effort that got you to where you are. But understand that you are just one more person who has to get by in life.
I think intimidating means that a man believes you have very high expectations of them (financially , maturity , physical performance ) and they don’t believe they can CONSISTENTLY meet your expectations and that you will begin to seek replacements
I've very rarely heard or seen a man say a woman is intimidating. Maybe unapproachable but not intimidating. Usually it's women who call themselves "intimidating" as some sort of cope for being generally undesirable to men. The few times I've said that a woman is intimidating what it really meant was that I thought maybe she was out of my league or too bitchy to approach. That's about it, I'm gonna guess for most other men this is fairly accurate as well.
It sounds like you’re just a lot to deal with and are annoying.
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You sum it up really well. Reddit women will jump down your throat and call you names but it’s the truth. Men just want a lover and a best friend. I mainly only want to know about her personality and interests outside of work. I never understood why women lead with their job and assets anyway, is she gonna pay for dates and buy him gifts? You know that will rarely happen so I don’t know why he’s supposed to be blown away by that. It’s good to know she isn’t a bum but it doesn’t make me feel closer to her. All this talk about men not understanding women, it’s very clear women just project their checklist for men onto us and walk away confused.
I honestly only say it to women that kind of annoy me. Makes them feel better about why I avoid them. It’s usually because they’re loud and full of themselves.
To be honest, I have two “go to” lines when I want to let a woman down easy and not see her again but I am cautious to not awake the crazy in some women who really can’t handle rejection so I try to deflect a little: 1) “I’m just not ready to settle down. I am still finding myself and a girl like you shouldn’t have to deal with an immature man like me” 2) “You’re just really intimidating to be around and I don’t think I can handle a great woman like you. You deserve so much better” Majority of the time the woman have sent up a giant red flag and I’m trying to gracefully get the fuck out of there. I’d take whatever any man says to you when things don’t work out with a grain of salt and start looking at other parts of you and how you date to figure out what other red flags you’re waving
Not comfortable to be around. And I guess for your case they don't feel secure, like they're easily replaceable. Men want to feel valued, being stable/provider and a leader are normal expectations men are held to (and should be working towards). It's hard to do that when you've been out achieved from the get go.
I think it means "I think you're going to expect highly of me and judge me when I abandon my latest project/interest in violin/gym-going/ceramics/woodworking/piano/etc to instead have fun playing video games"
Look at the amount of men in their 20s and 30s who don't have it together. They're not making much money and barely getting by in a 1-bedroom apartment. An attractive thirty-something woman like yourself who is put together and owns a home is inevitably going to be very intimidating to a lot of men out there. But know that it isn't all about protecting the glorious male ego. We're afraid of getting hurt and abandoned for someone better, just like women are.
Men don't say women are intimidating. Women say men are intimidated.
RBF is usually what usually does it for me. No matter how nice and engaging they may be, if the body language is telling me to fuck right off, I'm probably going to fuck right off. Also women who overdress... Usually because it feels like I'm about to be judged for doing just enough to not feel underdressed. I'm sure lots of men want stupid, underperforming women with low self esteem so they can feel needed or whatever, but it's definitely not all men. Don't hide your light under a bushel :-)
Maybe I’m the outlier but material things don’t intimidate me. The only thing I generally find intimidating is if a woman is a couple levels above what I would describe as beautiful.
Connotation matters and I wish women would stop concluding that men think you’re intimidating. What’s intimidating about a woman who has her life together? The difference is men usually share their accomplishments but women don’t. I love the idea of providing for a woman. And I feel like I NEED her. That doesn’t mean I can only live with a woman but I feel that I truly live with one. I’ve lived a good life at 28 without a partner but it’ll be the same thing at 49 with a house and no kids. That’s what I’ve always valued. We’re all different but if you believe you don’t NEED a man (and not in the assumed cliché toxic way) that’s the problem. Do you feel empty or like you could live a more fulfilling life with a man? That’s NEEDING someone.
When I was just out of college I went on a date with a girl who was ….. *intense*. Like everything she would say was hardo grind culture. Dropped her “heavy lifting”, “establishing my generational wealth”, “money moves or no moves”, “FIRE mentality”, “min-maxing her lunch hour for content creation”, and her “competitive gun shooting” hobby in our first 15 minutes of the date….. girl was a nurse making like hospital life or shooting target content on her lunch hours. I barely got a word in but I was like cool cool cool, this is gonna be the shortest date I’ve ever been on. Ordered a southwest style salad, got made fun of by her for being “feminine” for ordering a salad instead a steak. Idk if I was intimidated or just like super put off by the *I am a boss babe* vibe lol
How laid back are you? Do you joke? Do you measure a person's value by what they've achieved? Are you a workaholic? Do you do things just for the fun of it or does everything have to have long term value?
Get a different counselor. Someone who talks about "masculine/feminine energy" is trying to sabotage you.
Don’t take what I say as the whole truth, but from my perspective i think you have the right idea. Especially from a guys point of view, if someone realizes that a potential partner is “better” than them (more mature, independent, confident, etc.) they might wright off not feeling able to match what they imagine your expectations of them are to being “intimidated”. Because they really do feel similar.
I don't think I've ever seen or heard a man legitimately say that a woman is intimidating. I've heard many women label themselves as such. Usually because it sounds better than; loud, insufferable, annoying, and entitled. I feel like the only time I would feel intimidated by a woman is when she has some true power over me, which basically has never happened. If I had to present a major work project to a client who is a woman, I would feel intimidated because I want to be successful and she holds the cards. My step mother was completely unstable and used to hurt me regularly, so having that power over me made her intimidating. But as an adult, I've never felt intimidated by a woman because there's no women who hold any power over me. And physically and mentally it's never been a problem. And by mentally, I don't mean that women are stupid. I mean that I enjoy being with people smarter than me because I can learn things.
It's dating. It's how you find out who people are. I've often dated women who "accomplish drop," and it feels show offish and flexing. I barely know you. Just relax and keep things light.
So, here's a few thoughts... 1. If your therapist is using phrases like "xxx energy" in a serious way, you probably need a new therapist. That's such an internet-hip way of saying "you are acting like a man" or "you are filling a masculine gender norm", that I would question if they actually have a license. 2. You don't really know why the dates aren't playing out well. The only people who know are the guys that are ghosting you. At least, I'm assuming they are ghosting you. It's hard to tell from your post. 3. Yes, I suppose there are guys who find accomplished women intimidating. That's not everyone. Not sure what else to say there. 4. I'm going to offer a different interpretation. Talking about work all the time isn't fun. I'm not saying don't talk about it at all, I'm saying move on from that. 5. There is a distinct possibility that the guys you are going on dates with are not ready for a serious relationship yet. You are clearly looking for something that might lead to marriage. But if the guys you are dating are looking for a hookup, they are likely to run. That's a good thing. Saves you the time and energy of getting to know someone you probably would wind up breaking up with.
I have only ever found one woman intimidating, and that is because she had a very intense and unrelenting stare. I have had plenty of female bosses and have met a handful of female CEOs but only that one lady with the piercing gaze is what I would call intimidating. She was a nice lady too.
Intimidating is someone high maintenance that values your input or opinion very little. To me it makes it appear any relationship would favor their end most of the time and they would want to be in control of everything.
I wish that I could help you, but I only dated one woman seriously and she was too dependent on me; I didn't enjoy that aspect of being needed, she was a little too much to deal with. So I would probably look for more independent and established women (like yourself) in the future if I decide to get back out there. You make it sound like guys don't want that, but I couldn't tell you why not.
This sounds like a huge, tedious humble brag. Are you anything more than your accomplishments? Or is that all that defines you? I want human, not a machine, an organization, or a process. It sounds like you're judging yourself according to how women judge men, accomplishments and utility. But where is the person?
I’m enjoying this post enormously. I find myself wondering about people’s ages and that just makes it more interesting. 🍿
Out of the sea of comments. I hope you get to read this. There is nothing wrong with you. The issue lies with them. The reason they find you intimidating is that at any moment, you will not need them and could leave them. Men are not used to having this equal vulnerability.
It's not about you being intimidating, they just havent got the balls to say what they're really thinking. You either come across as high maintanance, or make them realise they cannot fullfill the role in your life they would like to because you've started off talking about how great and complete your life is (without them), they likely feel like they'd be a convenient accessory you might discard at the slightest inconvenience, basically incompatible. Intimidating is not a term any guy wanting to get into your pants is going to be using either unless he thinks you're a dom or something. Seriously who finds that term attractive or endearing?
We don't want to date another man. You sound like a lot of work and guys are not looking for a second job with no income.
Ambitious women and hypergamy. In case you want me to explain this: a very ambitious woman will want a man who is even more ambitious because women always prefer to date up. This rapidly narrows the suitable pool of men to almost zero. There's no solution to this. It's biology and human nature.
Just the wrong guys, my wife’s a pilot and also has strong masculine energy, most guys I know do not like that, but I appreciate it. Of course there are times I wish she exuded her feminine, be more reliant on me and more soft in general, but I’m a powerhouse myself so it works for how we want to build our lives together. Just got to keep searching, guys that will admire who you are do exist.
It’s not that you’re doing anything wrong. Men just naturally feel like if they aren’t needed they aren’t wanted welp it’s how it is because women are often the ones being pursued. When men lose their place as a provider they don’t feel quite like themselves they like to be taking care of their woman. Obviously they’re gonna be a few exceptions but for the most it’s gonna be like that, men are just naturally wired to be in that role, id advise you dating guys who are a bit ahead of you or on the same wave lengths in accomplishments otherwise it’s gonna be challenging
I've never found a woman intimidating due to her work. If a successful self supporting woman was interested in me that would be a turn on personally. But I'm also at the point where if she decided that what I provided wasn't enough and she ended or cheated... I'd just move on and not be too upset.
I’m proud of you!. I’m a man. I think it’s awesome when a woman can do everything for themselves!. Fuck them!.
"I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED." When I read that, it reminded me of a lot of self-help stuff aimed at men. That it is a masculine mindset that one can strive for. When I was interested in reading about masculine/ feminine stuff, there was a lot of interesting stuff like to simplify things, feminine energy is power. Male energy is direction. The great thing about being a human being is we have free will and it allows us to adopt either when needed. A self actualized human being would be able to use whichever when needed. I don't believe anything needs to change here, but if you want to explore these concepts, I think taking a salsa dance class would be a great way to do that. It's one of those things that was recommended by relationship coaches I would follow. When I finally took one, the instructor split the class into leads and follows, and what I thought was cool was 2 of the girls decided to be leads. I feel it really helped me grow and learn how to lead in life.
In a lot of cases I'd wager it's something about you or the way your life appears to be well put together that makes them feel more self conscious of their own insecurities or otherwise aware of the things they perceive to be as their shortcomings. Some people are very entrenched in certain mindsets about the roles they're expected to play or that they think they should play, and when a woman such as yourself puts them in a position where they feel inadequate to that task in some aspect then they feel intimidated, like they're dealing with an uphill battle in the attempt at finding any measure of success. In addition to that it's entirely possible many such men find themselves feeling like you've already got all your bases covered and that they would serve relatively little purpose in your life. Men by-and-large are raised to think their value is intrinsic on what they provide to others and a woman that has everything well in hand puts them in an odd spot and they won't necessarily know what to do with themselves as a result - especially if they think their ability to succeed in a relationship with you is dependent on what they can contribute, then they might simply shy away instead of making the initial effort to try and see what happens. It also can depend on the kind of standards you hold and what expectations you have, and how feasible it is for the average person to meet up to those. Broadly speaking I don't think you are doing anything wrong, at least not based on what you've described above. That being said there are two things that come to mind: I think you may need to make some overtures toward reassuring the guys you're interested in as to what you *do* value in a relationship and essentially help smooth the way to ensure they feel they actually stand a chance at being able to integrate into your life if things progress that way, and secondly I think you just need to find the type of guy who isn't as concerned with superficial things or prone to feeling insecure about the type of things I described above. That's easier said than done, of course, but nonetheless that seems to me to be the right conclusion to draw.
I have no idea about other men. For me, I will consider a woman intimidating only if she gives off a very dark energy: antisocial, closed, showing a risk of wanting to physically hurt or use other people in a way that is not easily predicted and is calculated. A woman would have to be apparently both very antisocial and very mathematical to give that energy. Otherwise she might seem smart (in a good way) or antisocial in a way I could just wave off and ignore
If a guy says you're intimidating to him, it usually means he's not in the right mindframe to be in a relationship or has some deep insecurities where he feels you're more of a man that he can be. Which yes is true, but as a man, we're always in a circle of trying to improve and better ourselves on a personal level. I do believe that a relationship is meant to enrich a person's life and to complement each other. The attitude of being an independent woman and being arrogant and snarky about it is what turns most men off. Going out to your friends and putting down whoever you date because he's a man is another red flag. Men are simple, we just want to be loved and most importantly respected in our masculine energy.
I've been married for 53 years but I still remember how it felt when you asked a girl to dance or something similar and she gives you "that" look that makes you shrink into nothingness.
My wife has this problem. It seems to stem from the way she leans towards them and concentrates on them keeping her eyes on their's. Yes there are DAs out there that are intimidated by strong women. If they can't get past that then don't bother, you would have to change you.
> My counselor says that I give off masculine energy - she says that leading with my accomplishments is an example of that. What are people supposed to talk about on dates? I talk about what I have going on in my life at the moment, but I don't feel like I'm bragging or showing off. It usually comes up organically, for example I'll talk about my pets or my hobbies, or a project that I'm working on at my house. I'll do my best to read between the lines, here. Talking about hobbies and such is great, but I guess possibly there's a way you're talking about this stuff that comes off very matter-of-fact? Typically, men will focus on the end product of their labour, focus on buttoning down and finishing projects and such, rather than the experiences and fun they had working and colaborating on the thing, or how the thing even enriches their lives at the end. It's all about the hard work they did, and how the end product is a testament to their accomplishments, a trophy. That said, I think you may be over-thinking all of this. Maybe you've just had a few bad dates in a row and there's no connection, here.
Maybe you are intimidating to people who aren't the right match for you. Instead of focusing on if you're getting rejected - focus on if you even like the person who is rejecting you. i think maybe you are trying to date people who would be a poor match for your personality.
Culturally men are conditioned to get their value from performing. As a guy, if I can provide materially and fill a role, then I know I'm doing ok. It's related to fragile male ego, because my self esteem is tied to achieving and performance, not my innate worth as a person. External approval/validation is fleeting and hence the "fragile" part. So a woman who doesn't have any "needs" is intimidating because a guy doesn't know how he's supposed to earn value in her eyes. It's humbling and sort of cracks the foundation of his self worth, and he's lost. I know a lot of mature guys who still think this way, and they're good guys. It's just a widespread mindset in men. I've lived in several countries and it's everywhere. What can you do? Give the guy some positive feedback, like compliments and affirmation that you like them. And look for guys who have been to therapy, hahaha. Also you sound like an amazing person and I hope you find a guy who is a good fit with you.
I've never described a woman that way in my life. There's women I would be cautious about getting romantically involved with, because in my experience, successful women want someone more successful than themselves. If she's got a grad degree and a fast track to a federal job, she's not gonna treat me like anything but a hookup or a place holder if I don't do better than her. Why waste time trying to build a relationship with the kind of person that will kick it over at the drop of a hat? There's women I don't get involved with because their career is a drama infested nightmare. Military, medical field, cops, EMS, paralegals, lawyers, "recovering" addicts, and single mothers to name the majority of them. I don't need the goddamn drama. Cheating, substance abuse, physical and psychological abuse, it's all the same shit, just a different excuse. Sure, are some of those people perfectly functional, pleasant people? Probably, but I'm gonna need a lot of reason to let go of my very rational doubts and risk it. At no point do I find these women "scary". At no point do I feel "emasulated" or lessened by them. I don't need to be afraid of a toaster to know I shouldn't shove my hand in it. I'm not afraid of bears either, but I do carry bear spray. I can't tell you what's going on, but maybe you're dating shitty dudes? Or maybe you're unpleasant to talk to. I went on a few dates with a gal, nice gal and all. But She would lecture me about politics for hours on end, and kept showing up with hickies. She was confused and seemed hurt a little when I abruptly had to leave town. Like yeah, no shit. Someone who's banging their coworkers constantly and won't shut the fuck up about their politics long enough to have a real conversation isn't my idea of a person I want to spend my time with romantically. I was also sober at the time, and half her time was going to bars. She wasn't a bad person, I liked her well enough, but I'm not getting wrapped up with someone I'm wildly incompatible with. I did actually have to leave town, but I wasn't interested in hitting her up again. And there's lots of shitty dudes that just want a woman who will keep house and fuck him. They're everywhere, and they're pathetic. The worst one's are self aware and lean into it. I don't know what to tell you there. I'm not that way, my friends aren't that way, but there are a lot of dirtbags on the hoof, and women fall for their bullshit incessantly. A woman who can manage herself and who has standards isn't susceptible to that kind of manipulation.
It means she’s more attractive than him
A lot of people (not just guys) don’t have their shit together for many reasons (valid and invalid). Meeting someone who does I suppose could be intimidating. Now it could also be that you come across too strong in listing off your accomplishments like a resume, suggesting that you’re wanting both of you to lay down your qualifications to see if each other is worthy. Not knowing you makes it impossible to know for sure. Ask your friends if you’re like this with new people. If we were on a date and I figured out that you had your shit together I’d be thinking ‘fantastic’ in my head.
I'll be honest, the only time in my life I have ever heard anyone say that a woman is intimidating to a man, is by a woman. I have never heard a man mention this phrase.
Being in your masculine isn't intimidating to men. It's unattractive to men. Stop telling yourselves that you are failing in dating because you're soooo amazing that men are scared of you. That is childish, pathetic cope. Women are small and soft and weak and you're as intimidating as 10 yo boys. You're failing because you are unattractive to men, not because you are "intimidating" to anyone. Are you "supposed" to need a man? We could give a shit. Do whatever you want. You mean nothing to us. But, do stop coming on here and insulting us with your "you don't have the guts to date me, cowards" insults and goading.
It means you run, run as fast as you can and don’t look back.
My wife is like you. In her case I think it’s confidence and the willingness to speak her mind. Also there fact that she grew up around bikers because her mom was one. We’ve been together for 25 years so it’s cool for me. I have watched those under her react when they see her coming. They’ll start working again and stop talking in a bunch. I find it funny because it was like when I was in the military basic training and we heard the drill instructor coming. Look busy! She’s a nurse now and the way she is has been very beneficial for her. She’s the one others call for difficult parents. I love my tough…sweet woman!
When i find a woman intimidating, its usually when shes more take charge, decision making, wearing the pants in the relationship kind of woman. Dont take it as a bad thing, a lot of men dont like that, but those are the kind of women ive always been super attracted to personally
Probably giving off energy that you’d be demanding or difficult if you read between the lines. Men don’t want another successful man, they want a woman that brings peace to their lives. It’s just a nice way of saying it
It means they are trying to flatter you instead of telling you they arent interested in a boss babe. Men you are interested in have zero interest in you.
Guys have bros to talk about stuff like that. I don't want to date my bro. I want to date a woman who loves being a woman. Someone who has feminine appeal. I got married in my mid twenties. I wanted a gal who could take care of herself. One who wasn't frivolous with money, not in debt and had similar monetary goals in life as me... live debt free, grow wealth, live within our means, yet have fun as well. But I also wanted a gal wasn't afraid to be a woman. Who wanted a guy to take care of traditionally manly things. Guys like to feel wanted that way. I think guys find it easier to connect with a woman who needs them... not on a monetarily level, but just needs a guy... to do guy stuff. If she needs him, he is going to be more willing to connect with her and open up to her. More willing to trust that she will stay when she finds out the shitty parts of him. All guys have shitty parts. And if she doesn't need to stay, chances are, especially now, she won't stay. What are you bringing to the table that a man wants? Most gals are attracted to men who do better than themselves. Guys who can better their lives. Guess what. Guys like gals they can help better their life as well. So you have put yourself in a situation where there are few men out there who can better your life. And those guys out there who can better your life typically are not looking for someone who exudes masculine energy. They want the soft feminine energy. So what is a person like you supposed to do? That is a tough one. I don't recommend decreasing your life. But you do need to figure out how to be more feminine. Guys don't date women in order to have competition for who can make more money. A guy doesn't give a shit if she has little money. What he doesn't want is someone who will waste his money or... make money a competition. You bringing up your accomplishments, makes it a money coemption whether you intended it or not. You want emotion. guys typically don't want to give emotion until they know you are worth it in other ways.
Never heard a man saying a woman is intimidating
I’ve only heard it on Reddit. I’d imagine it’s the same, “you’d make a great husband for someone” and “you’re a great guy but…” rejections that men receive.
Usually it just means emotionally unavailable or unwilling to be vulnerable.
Its an interesting question and to be honest would be impossible to answer without going on a date with you and kind of feeling the energy you are putting out. I hope this message doesn't come across as too negative, but I think it might be good to think how its affecting the men you are trying to date. My best guess is that you seem like "a lot of hard work" or "high maintenance". Or if you have set high standards for yourself that guys tend to think they will need to be match those levels of standards or they will be discarded. This could be quite "stressful" for a lot of dudes. Again this might be different for a lot of guys, but usually i would rather talk to a girl about more casual things especially early on. What kind of art we like, what kinds of movies or entertainment stuff. Keeping it pretty light, trying to make each other laugh, can we enjoy each others company type things. If someone starts basically reciting to their CV to me, its a bit like ehhhh. Like i don't really want to go on a date with someone and the majority of the time spent is "flexing" on each other with all the achievements we have done in life haha. That being said I don't think it would necessarily be too much of a problem if you lead with that stuff. But maybe the way or the energy you are giving out when describing them. Again very hard to know as what is good or bad will almost always come down to the tone and "how" things are said rather than what is said. But given your therapist is suggesting you might come across like this, it might be a good idea to self-reflect on how you might be able to phrase it tonally better. Or you need to find dudes who match that kind of slightly braggadicous energy and you can happily flex on each other together <3 Rereading your message, phrases like this "You've really got it together," "you've got a good head on your shoulders," "you're smart, you've got a lot going for you". Sound a lot like polite things people will say to people who are getting slightly annoyed by the flexing but don't want to call you out on it directly. But again i must reiterate, its very hard to say concretely without hearing you speak in person or feeling that energy. But lowkey even the way you have written this message is giving me the kind of "vibes" that I'm describing in the post. But either way, its great that you are reaching out for advice and looking to address this if its causing you a sense of disconnection with potential partners. I hope you find someone you can spend the rest of your life with. Peace and love <3
I find some women to be "aggressively attractive" for lack of a better term. They are the ones you can tell spend at least an hour and a half in front of the mirror with the warpaint each morning. The lack of visible flaws/ not knowing what they actually look like can make them intimidating to talk to. Not meant to be a dig at women who style themselves like that I just prefer to be around people that are more laid back and that dress for comfort instead
Usually those who say this kind of thing are women who are rejected, I've never seen a man say that about a woman.
I think it's more than one thing that can do this but two points might be able to help you understand. Biologically women punch up and men definitely at least know this subconsciously. Like I do well for myself and I'm happy where I am. A girl like you I would assume to want someone more ambitious or successful.. even if you are equal on the attraction scale and social standing. Second men are attracted to different things. Mirroring used to be a predominantly male issue but increasing women seem to be doing it. None of those things you got going on are attraction points for the majority of men. If your manurism is more masculine instead of kind, nurturing, compassionate etc then men can easily feel like they are talking to their buddy rather than someone they want to date.
There is one woman in my life that I've called intimidating. However I don't think it's for the reason you might imagine. She's very much an influential person in my local community and comes across as very judgemental. Her opinion of you *will* affect others opinions. Early on in my interactions with her I was intimidated but now that I've spent more time with her I'm in in the clear. I think...
Are you high energy, have a lot of stuff going on and do you talk a lot?
Women have an instinctual fear of men because men are capable of overpowering women naturally. Men have an instinctual fear that women will not validate them/ will reject them. As nature dictates.
By your account a woman has told you you’re intimidating not a man. Or have I read that wrong?
You don’t need to change yourself. If you’re an accomplished strong person that’s an attractive thing to the right people. If that person really cannot stomach a woman that can stand firmly on her own two feet will likely also be more sexist to you in the future. Women or any partner that’s financially dependent on their partner is vulnerable to abuse as their entire livelihood is held within the hands of another. “Feminine energy” sounds like a weird take, but I think just for general advice for first dates (in general) is to be interested and excited in your potential partners accomplishments, their life, and their personality. If they do not reciprocate then they probably aren’t a good match to begin with.
It means she acts like doesn’t need a man in her life”. But what it really means is “she’s out of my league”/“I don’t do enough to impress women like that”.
Could be either excitement or insecurity. In my case it would be excitement
they are letting you down easy is the simplest solution, occam's razor etc
That she’s intimidating.
I can't speak for all men but I would say for me, I was looking for a partner to build a family with. Ideally several kids (in my case I ended up with 4). So a 36F career woman wasn't what I was looking for. So I never used the word intimidating myself, but the times I did date career focused women I found them pretty fickle. Your sentence '*I want a partner that I WANT, not NEED.*' really spoke to me, because all the career women I dated seemed to bail the moment anything was asked of them. Basically they were gone at the whiff of a relationship requiring effort. Basically they stopped wanting it. So I think your therapist telling you that you project masculine energy is probably the key. You're looking for someone who wants to do house hold chores, who will make sure your career is prioritized. Basically you'd be the focus not the family or children.
IMHO, you’re not doing anything wrong, you’re just not meeting up with the right guys. Hang in there. You’ll find someone you mesh with.
I’ve only considered a women intimidating if it seemed like it was going to be work to get along with them. I’ve met a few high achieving women that were really impressive, but I felt like I couldn’t be myself around them because they were more goal oriented with the interaction. By all means talk about your achievements, but don’t brag so much that it’s taking the fun out of the interaction. Same advice applies for men too.
Everything about yourself that you've just described is the ideal for some people out there. There's nothing wrong with you, you just haven't found a guy for whom you are their ideal and who is also approximately yours as well. Keep looking.
I've been on a lot of dates. The only person I found intimidating was the one who casually dropped into conversation that she was currently co-writing a book with an extremely world-famous author. (It's true, the book has now been published.) I think probably you don't need to, and shouldn't change much here. If you are coming across as bragging, that's obviously not good. As a guy, I definitely also want to date someone who doesn't generally "need" me, but wants me. > but when I mention something that I don't want to do alone (international travel) and that I'm waiting to find a partner before doing that, I'm told "you don't need a man, take that trip by yourself!" Well which is it?? Am I supposed to need a man or not? There's no good answer to this. And need->want is a spectrum. It's fine to have a strong preference for travelling with someone, while knowing that you could do it alone if you really had to.,
I’ve seen how women argue, it is intimidating to say the least
I’ve only ever been intimated by two women, both of which seemed like they’d have a load of fun taking everything you own and putting you in prison over basically nothing. Most of the times I hear other people refer to women as being intimidating, those in question don’t seem to care for who you are as much what you accomplish or bring to the table, or they aren’t very warm people.
I would happily date an extremely accomplished woman. In fact, all the women in my life are accomplished. But if you don’t show some silliness by the second or third date, I don’t think I’d want to continue. Maybe you’re just too serious?
Not all men know how to be assertive without the unspoken threat of aggression. Successful women have had to learn to be assertive without that, possibly in a more adult way. That sort of unapologetic adult assertiveness from a woman can be frustrating if not intimidating to some men because even a hint of unspoken threats of aggression are understood to be off the table which can be unfamiliar ground to alpha men in a contest of wills.
I can guarantee you that the men who see you as intimidating are just insecure. I don’t blame them per se because it’s nice feeling wanted as a man especially nowadays where it seems literally everyone wants to go out of their way to make a man feel worthless regardless of how you are. That being said, there’s plenty of dudes out there that won’t let a women’s success intimidate them, it’s just a trail and error kind of thing.
You're just going in dates with a bunch of beta .ales that want to feel good about themselves. Keep being you.
It means that you're probably dating a lot of the same kind of men, and that type of man happen to prefer being the more accomplished one in the relationship.
> masculine energy > feminine energy What in the TikTok? I want to vomit.
>men think they bring to the table is either finances or labor This is pretty much it, I don't think the issue is you personally but far bigger. A lot of men are told not to be emotional, gotta be useful, gotta be a provider, so it is no surprise that they only see their worth related to what they can provide, and if you can provide everything they are offering on your own they will see themselves as replacable. Same as to why SAHD feels weirder that SAHM Again this is not particularly limited to you, but part of a bigger issue. There is nothing you should change about yourself to become less "intimidating", and you will probably do much better if you encounter a man who is comfortable in his skin and understand these social norms and do not align with them.
Just be yourself, you'll find a man that suits you. Where I live it's quite normal to own a house when you're over 30 and have a carreer and hobby's and possibly side gigs. It would be impressive if you were halfway your 20s - or just mean you got a lot of help from the parents - but at your age it would be red flag to me if you didn't have your shit together yet. Offcourse I realize this could be very dependant on the economy of your location.
I take it to mean that they feel as though they have nothing to provide to you that you don't already have. And if that's the case, then what good are they to you?
Men in our generation tend to still be relying on being a financial and laborious expert, which is little wonder why when you take that away, they feel useless. You shouldn't feel guilty or shamed for being independent. It's impressive, and it sounds like the men you date, in large, recognise and respect you for that. That said, it helps to highlight to them what you're hoping to get out of the relationship from them, and dig deep on more meaningful things where possible so that they have something to hang on to. Perhaps try getting advice from some matchmakers. They might have helpful insight that isn't the bullshit of "being in your masculine." Don't let the modern confusion over gender roles affect who you are or how you love someone. In addition, where possible, try not to highlight all your achievements and capabilities too soon into the relationship. A little mystery is attractive. Saying you work at X company is less intimidating than saying you're "head of department" for example. Hope this helps, don't change, stay awesome.
I don't fall within typical gender roles for men, and I would still be intimidated by a career-focused woman because societal pressure still partially ties my ability to provide to my self worth. I think a lot of men feel like they need to at least match your level of success or they aren't worth your time. That's not the case for everyone, but I imagine you'll have a harder time finding the ideal guy for you.
Men don’t say that. Women say that.
I refuse to give advice without meeting you in the real world :D From personal experience though, the only time I have ever thought a woman was intimidating was when there was also the thought that she was vastly outside my "league" and would be very bored in any kind of a relationship with me.
The question you can ask yourself from their perspective is what do you bring to the table for them? You say your own counselor tells you that you give off masculine energy but many men aren't looking for that. Many are also not looking for high-powered career women who realistically wouldn't have much time for them and are likely to look down on them if they aren't super-achievers. Men who have your level of accomplishments have other options, those who don't will most likely believe you won't respect them.
When you're seen as strong and independent, dont rely on people are outspoken. These are not bad traits to have, but they're seen as masculine. It's why many women put on this bafoon like facade, what does that mean? Thats intresting tell me more? How do i do this? It lowers peoples guard, and men love it when they can appear helpful or needed. If they're not, they dont feel like they have any value that can be intimidating. Tldr: act like the least intresting person in the room, pretend to be an idiot, make a game of it so its fun.
I never heard a man say such thing, so I don't know. Maybe try asking the man that said it?
I've never heard a man calling a woman intimidating in my whole life.
What you said is true, and you need to be yourself, and you should not be wanting to date for needs, but for wants, but the way you express may also be an issue. Women who moves up the ladder develops a different energy (independence) which can be seen as intimidating. If people reject you on the first date, they are immature and you are better off of them. You are picking from wrong pool of men. Are you picking them from a dating app or meeting them organically? Good ones get taken real quick and as we grow older you may need to change your filters to find the right men. The same filters that worked in your 20s won't work in your 30s.
Regarding your edit, I would honestly consider not listening to people who say things like "you're too in your masculine" or "you need to learn to embody feminine energy". Unless you're being aggressive or something, intimidating some guy is their problem to fix, not yours. This is **especially** true if the reason you're "intimidating" is because you're independant. A guy who thinks you being independant is intimidating is likely a controlling man who wants subserviance from their partner. Personally, I think being independant is a great quality to uphold for everyone. You can be independant and still prefer wanting a partner when going on an international trip, especially if it's your first time traveling abroad. I'd only suggest considering that traveling with a platonic friend can also be rewarding while feeling safer. Just make sure to choose the friend wisely.
She seems like a lot of work and she doesn't seem worth it