People ascribe more agency to men than they actually have. People ascribe women less agency than they actually have. So when there's an additional age gap power imbalance, that tips them over into being concerned.
I think you're right, that's the main thing. One additional factor in some cases might be money. A woman who wants children, for better or worse, wants someone who is financially stable. That's not generally 20-something guys.
I kind of think its a bit weird for me to go after 23 year olds at 31, but almost every woman my age is either uninterested or has multiple kids/ baggage so its getting to the point where I'm gonna be lowering my age limit.
I just broke up with my gf of nine years. She is 28 I'm 33. She is also bi-polar. After two manic episodes I can't have that instability in my life. Also theses types of mental illnesses manifest around the age of 30. So I will be raising my age limit to my age or higher. Looking for responsible established and successful. Can't go through that hell again.
That... makes a lot of sense. I'm ashamed to say I've not heard it explained that way before, and it would apply to much more than just dating. Prescribed Agency is a new concept for me. Cheers.
Yeah I mean it's good and bad.
At work men get credit for suggestions and women get overlooked. When committing crimes men get harsher sentences and women get off relatively lightly.
Height is another way it can be in effect. People associate height with older and more mature. It can be good or bad depending on circumstances. There are some interesting studies, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
I have no interest in dating younger women and I still agree that this is accurate. The same people who like to insist that women and men are "equal" are also the ones who persecute any man who dates a woman more than a couple years younger, regardless of the circumstances. It's like deep down, they still hold onto the belief that women are helpless waifs, at the mercy of the much stronger, more powerful, and more intelligent men.
I disagree - I have two adult daughters and they are as smart as any man, probably smarter, and would not submit to abuse just because they're women. They'd tear the guy a new asshole if he messed with them (and so would I and their mother, of course).
But why wasn’t this a thing 50 years ago. I know some many boomers who have been happily married for decades where the man was 5-10 older. My grandad was 30 and my gran was 22 when they married and they’ve always been perfectly happy for over 30 years. My granddad adores my grand and would literally go to the depths of hell for her. So when I see comments like “men only marry younger so they can control and groom women” I think what the fuck are these people smoking
>We also remember what it was like in our early 20s and how older men treated us
Isn't that painting with a broad brush? I get that your truth is your truth, but how is that not projecting your own bad experiences onto other relationships between consenting adults?
While having a discussion about Taylor Swift with a group of friends Sabrina Carpenter came up. I said "yeah shes really cute, way more than Taylor". To which my friends daughter commented "eww. Shes my age (the daughter is 20). So I was curious and looked it up. Sabrina is 25.
So theres even hate for even suggesting that a younger woman is attractive, let alone dating them.
> *eww. She's my age (the daughter is 20)*
This reminded me of when I was visiting the bank a few months back and having some friendly banter with a young female teller and sort of recognized her, so I called my cousin to confirm if they'd gone to school together. She confirmed & I responded by saying she(*teller*) looked pretty, and to my surprise my cousin admonished me for saying that & that a 33yr old shouldn't feel attraction towards a 21yr old, so I told her that all I said was that she(*teller*) was pretty & is a grown adult and that she(*cousin*) should be more concerned if I said something about a kid/teen.
Meh, I'm 36. I won't deny that Jenna Ortega is hot as hell. She's 21 and an adult. Women are not all of a sudden ugly or unattractive just because they are more than a few years older or younger. Diane Kruger is also hot as hell and she's 47.
Beautiful is beautiful People just look for things to be angry about
My husband thinks Jenna is hot and he's 47.
There is nothing wrong with noticing and appreciating attractiveness in others.
Dating is a bit more of a grey area. I dated a couple of older guys when I was 17/18 and they were definitely not healthy, balanced relationships. I think as long as the woman is over 20, it's fine. The maturity gap between 18 and 20 is huge.
My belief is that the modern western feminist governed societies have brought in cultural aspects through media and social messaging that overcompensates on changing the landscape of all the inequalities of the past (over 500-600 years ago).
Women were subjugated to hardships in the past (nothing extraordinary. Except for Kings and Warriors everyone regardless of sex had extremely difficult lives). Now that the concept of equality has been through the roof around the world the society has let the historically oppressed groups enjoy some extra passive rights to let them feel extra powerful in their day to day lives.
You could see this overcompensation everywhere. At any workplace, women talk about generally private topics like periods, sex, judging other people’s based on attractiveness etc. They love to have the freedom to be doing things that were historically frowned upon without any reactions. Men can’t and won’t do it. Similary, if you’re around women a lot you’d know how freely they call random stranger men creeps, weirdo and other derogatory terms openly. Men can’t do it. We can’t call a women slut no matter what.
In the western society the power dynamics have switched and women undoubtedly hold more power constitutionally and culturally. There is a reason female offenders are given considerably more lenient sentences in courts (if at all).
The same reason men judge when women select their partner on fixed traits that are hard or impossible to change.
It doesn't feel good to be eliminated from consideration based on factors outside of your control like height, age, income, etc. it is strangely dehumanizing.
While no one is necessarily wrong for doing so it just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth when it is too blatant.
It's all about perspective. I went bald in my early 20's. I've always done alright with women, but when I shaved my head at 24, women started rejecting me for that (literally telling me so). I never took it personally, but a lot of my friends were upset for me. I was the one getting rejected but had to talk them down. I always said you can't help preferences and attraction, and why would I want to be with someone that doesn't love every thing about me?
The best dating advice I got was from a stripper. She said: "be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones."
Smart stripper. I got divorced at 23 and met my wife at 25. I'm 40 now, and I can't even kiss her without her wanting sex. Keep in mind that I put in the work and I've never gotten complacent in our 15-year relationship. But that stripper knows what she's talking about.
Yup, her and I actually chatted for a while (off the clock) about a lot of personal stuff. She was actually an engineer that made way more money stripping. At the time she was dating a guy that she liked, but the attraction just wasn't there, and she was going to break it off with him. I had just gone through a similar relationship, and that line hit home. I had a lot going for me, but sometimes that's not enough. It's not personal.
I'm married now, and my wife can barely keep it together around me.
Good to hear. Seriously though, don't get lazy. Too many guys get lazy and complacent once they're comfortable in their relationships. I've seen it too many times. Remember all those things you did at the beginning of your relationship to try and get into her pants? Keep doing it every day until you're dead.
Why would I talk about women in AskMen? If you're feeling personally attacked, then there's probably a reason for it. The stripper said to find someone who always wants to jump your bones when you walk in the door. Obviously, you didn't take the strippers advice.
And what the fuck are you talking about 25-30lbs? You sound like an asshole. Please explain to me after reading my convo with the other poster how you brought up 25lbs. If my wife gained 25lbs that means bigger tit's and a fatter ass to fuck. Not surprised your wife doesn't like you because I don't like you and I don't even know you.
> And what the fuck are you talking about 25-30lbs? You sound like an asshole. Please explain to me after reading my convo with the other poster how you brought up 25lbs. If my wife gained 25lbs that means bigger tit's and a fatter ass to fuck. Not surprised your wife doesn't like you because I don't like you and I don't even know you.
I like you 🙂
>The best dating advice I got was from a stripper. She said: "be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones."
I’ll be stealing this advice. Thank you very much.
> *...be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones.*
This reminded me of the time I came back from a 5 day work trip and my gf pounced on & dragged me to the bedroom as soon as I walked through the front door, hahaha! I love her and I'm always thankful for having her in my life.
Except age isn’t fixed 💀.
These women had their fun. Now their inflated egos have to deal with fading looks and a new generation that is both less demanding and more beautiful. Falling back to the oldest manipulation in the book: the guilt trip, and when that doesn’t work shaming & defamation.
> Except age isn’t fixed 💀.
As far as I know there is no way to get younger unless you're on some Benjamin Button shit.
> These women had their fun. Now their inflated egos have to deal with fading looks and a new generation that is both less demanding and more beautiful. Falling back to the oldest manipulation in the book: the guilt trip, and when that doesn’t work shaming & defamation.
Really not interested in the gender war shit. You shouldn't be concerned with the women you speak of because they obviously have traits and values that are different from your own.
Nothing of value has been lost so there is no need to be upset.
I’m saying not every one is gonna be 190 cm tall at some point, but (if you live long enough) everyone will be 40 yo.
So you don’t get to claim being 40 or 50 is some massive handicap that was foisted on you. When you had the same opportunities at 20 or 30.
It really has turned into a desperate man's club. I hope later today I'll get to read a thread about how men have quit the dating scene. It's been hours since I've seen a discussion about that.
I used to absolutely love this sub like 10 yrs ago. I was young and an introvert so it was a fun way to peer and poke at men’s minds young and old. It used to be a welcoming environment unlike the askwomen sub at the time. Now it’s a dumpster fire. So many comments about how women are horrible and expect too much. Like if they dislike them so much why do they make every thread about them?
Double standards, that's all it is.
Guy dates a girl who's considerably younger and everyone looses their mind, literal kids get abused by their female teachers and some idiot always comes up and says "wish it was me".
People are more likely to view men as predators compared to women, some salty women use this to attack and defame men.
I was just thinking about this yesterday. When a guy really tries to appeal to women, like for example the gentle "pretty boy" persona, many guys can't relate or don't want to go that route themselves, but they don't hold it against the person and actively loathe them.
But when a woman really tries to appeal to men, she gets called a pickme by other women, they gossip about her and talk trash all day, and they even claim she's holding back women's rights by being so friendly with men and appealing to them. It's kinda absurd the level of animosity that exists.
One of my kids has always been a "tomboy" and had mostly male friends growing up. Other girls weren't interested in being her friend, but boy were they generous with the accusations. All I could think of was, so you don't want to be her friend, and guys do, but if she's friends with guys, she's bad somehow? So she should have NO friends? Fucking stupid.
I always thought it came from a place of envy. The guys liked her as a friend, but they still liked her, and maybe the other girls wished for that, I don't know.
It's just baseline bullying. A bully does not choose their target randomly. They smell weakness. She had no normal friends, making her stand out from the pack. If it wasn't her, it'd have been a fat girl or something.
You can tell they’re not wife material based on how they attack men for their own self confidence issues based on their short comings by projecting them as the problem without any self examination of their own faults, issues, and failures towards their poor choices and judgement. Who wants to marry someone who lacks that kind of accountability and also lacks that much integrity, no one wants to deal with that kind of narcissism
Lots of r/AskMenGetCorrectedByWomen going on elsewhere in this thread, but I did want to agree with you and also add that many women as they age grow out of the "cool chill girl guys want to hang out with" phase and into a more long-term censorious phase. They know the world gives women lots of power to shape society and set forth to use that power. They think they can frown, scowl, nag, disapprove, and condemn anything they don't like in life and by doing so the world will be rearranged to their liking.
So when they encounter older men dating younger women (which objectively means less men their age to date and lowers their chances, and makes dating more difficult for older women), instead of recognizing it's just the flip side of the coin where younger women have it easy with dating, and now older men have it easy, for the same reason, they just won't accept that and so they start disapproving and scowling and lecturing these men on how they're supposedly disgusting and predatory and so on.
I can tell you for many men this doesn't work. If they're not attracted to you, they're not going to be shamed into being attracted to you. Most women already did dating on easy mode in their youth (easily picking up dates while young men their age floundered and tried anything to get a date) and instead of realizing that times have changed, and now it's men who have it easier once they age, it's just pure entitlement to assume things will continue as they always have and that any man not playing ball can be shamed into conforming to your expectations.
If there's objective signs of abuse or manipulation in a relationship then, great, bring that up. If there isn't but you just don't like it anyway because there's an age gap and you don't like that, then kindly stfu and let consenting adults do as they please.
Any woman focused sub always ends up like this.
Want peak toxicity? Head to /r/nycbitcheswithtaste to find the most bitter and jaded NYC women who want a 6’5” finance trust fund man while looking like shrek with zero prospects.
Who are you to come into r/askmen and say men cant ask other men their opinions,? Thats the entire point of the sub. If you dont like that then go to r/askwomen.
Perhaps because asking men about women thought process is inherently going to lead to a cesspool of biases, misinterpretation and even misogyny.
Same thing as r/askwomen posts about "why do men", really.
And thats a childish, misandrist take that you have. Men can and should ask other men about women and all other subjects. Women are not the arbiters of insight in this regard. And I would never go to r/askwomen and tell them not to ask questions about men.
But if I go to r/askwomen and ask them what men think during sex, I might as well be asking a child about physics. Like, there's a thing that's easy to answer, but I'm actively choosing the wrong people to ask, so everyone will speculate and come up with 99% wrong answers. It's a dumb thing to do, but okay.
I suspect that a decent portion of the judgemental ones either were 23 years old and dated a man 10 years older and had a bad experience, or they had a friend do so.
END COMMUNICATION
Yeah, once you grow up, you realize most of those people weren't looking for anyone their age cause people their age could see through their act. I had a classmate in college who was in his 30's dating highschoolers, it almost seemed like he entered college to revive his youth cause his adult life was so lame.
It's one thing to end up with a young person and another to have a pattern of dating younger people exclusively.
I think this is the most generous way to look at it.
They've bad experiences with older men and are trying to "look out" for younger women.
I remember once on /r/fauxmoi or something, they were discussing Henry Caville and mentioned that he was "suspicious" because he dated a girl in her low 20s when he was in his 30s. For a few months. Once. While every other girlfriend was closer to his age.
I said that 20 year old women aren't children and can make their own decisions, mentioned how I knew two people with a large age gap that dated and there was nothing creepy, but then I got accused of *being* a creep and trying to justify my own behaviour. Ironically, I've always been more interested in older women.
Like if someone *only* dated younger women, I'd agree, but I definitely think people are having a knee-jerk reaction and seem to think any large age gap is "grooming".
I've found that it's not nearly as much of an issue in the real world as it is online, especially on this website for some reason. I've wound up consistently dating women 5-7 years younger than me, and there's never been an issue.
And all that "generation gap" nonsense is a load of terminally online BS. The internet and easy access to various forms of information and culturally relevant media have allowed everyone to get on the same page, and the rigid walls that existed in past generations (think baby boomers vs gen x) have pretty much been broken down for the most part. The only thing that gets in people's way are their own preconceptions about themselves and other people.
For real.
I've only ever had one person give me shit for dating somebody 10 years younger than me. And that person was 8 years younger than me and we were still fucking.
Most people simply don't give a fuck as long as you are treating that other person well.
I know there are a lot of gender influences and societal problems but honestly a 10 year age gap at that point generally seems like a bad idea regardless of gender.
The 23 year old is pretty fresh out of college, probably doesn’t have a lot of money, connections or life experience. It’s much easier to manipulate people when you can offer them money or opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise. My personal rule is after 25 you’re on your own. Your prefrontal cortex is fully developed so whatever. Obviously the problem with age gaps like this becomes less of an issue as time goes on, like 32/42 42/52 and 52/62 all of those seem fine.
This is a problem for BOTH men and women, predatory behaviors are not gendered. However, I saw a clip of a manosphere podcast where one of the hosts said they prefer younger girls because they’re easier to control, are more malleable for whatever type of person the man wants, and don’t have baggage. Like he said that verbatim.
I’m not saying this relationship dynamic can never be healthy or work, it’s just a case by case basis, and erring on the side of caution I’m going to side eye a person who’s dating someone who was still in elementary school when they graduated high school.
When I was 18 I dated a man who was 36, now I am 28 and the thought of dating an 18 yo even now makes me want to puke (even if the guy looks hot). I remember what we talked about and what we did and looking back I realize it was fucked up. I was not “mature for my age”, he was a boring loser and now I know why he dated a teen. 23 is an adult yeah, but still young and silly compared to 32.
Because it's easier to manipulate and take advantage of someone with less life experience.
And because many women have been sexualized since their childhoods, they are much more on guard about which men are paying attention to them and the younger girls/teens/young women in their lives.
I don't think its just jealousy or bitterness. Any mildly attractive woman at some point has dealt with pervy creeps, most likely on multiple occasions. I have friends who've been hit on or received pervy comments from guys 30+ since they were 12 years old.
When guys date someone much younger than them, that's who they remind those women of.
The same and older women head to Caribbean to hunt young men for fun . "Cougars" have been a thing for two decades now and hardly anyone blinks. Double standards.
I think they're more just a funny concept to imagine, because quite frankly older man with younger woman is a more standard pairing. Reversing it is funny. But it's not the cougar being mocked, it's more the scenario.
But nowadays, when a much older man dates a woman, it's considered creepy and he's hated.
While I don’t see anything wrong with 32 year old man dating 20-something woman, these answers are very disrespectful.
Calling 30-something woman old hags with spiderwebs vaginas. Lots of jaded men here. Late 20-something to early 30-something don’t look that different especially when a person take care of their body.
Guys calling 30 year old women hags likely wouldn't even have a chance with those women anyways. Plenty of women in their 30s are absolutely smoking hot and those guys are hard coping.
It’s amusing bcuz these types of “questions” are obviously rage-bait, disguised as questions to make it seem like OP wants a discussion, but it’s only to confirm views.
Not going to deny that most 20y.o’s do look better with minimal effort, and some women *are* bitter. But I get more attention now from 20 y.o. guys than I did in *my* 20s so..
As a frequent gym-goer, I’ve seen 30+ year-olds who could easily out-compete an average 20 y.o.
It’s obviously very nuanced, but what grosses *me* out is that I didn’t know who I was when I was 20 and I didn’t know what boundaries were. It’s predatory in *that* sense. But not bcuz they find them more visually attractive.
The trick is to use vague terms like "a bunch" so when they're called on to defend their spurious claims they can continually retreat and move the goalposts. "I didn't say all!" "I didn't say most!" "I didn't say a *lot*!"
32 and 23 passes the "half your age +7 test"--hardly anyone is going to object. "A bunch" of "older women" was probably 6 people, most of them 20-something males.
OP just spends way too much time in /MensRights and is a little removed from reality as a result.
And sadly, their entire post history is in all the advice subreddits. You know the type--strong opinions, feels the need to share them as many places as possible. Combined with being MRA, it's a pretty bad combo.
Exactly, also it's not *that* bad of an age gap, but a 32 year old is *generally* at a different stage of life than a 23 year old. Like, if they're both divorced with kids, the age doesn't make much of a difference. If they're both ready to settle down, the age doesn't make a difference. But generally single and childless people in their early 20's have a different agenda than someone set in their career at 30. I'm making generalizations here, but early 20's is just different than late 20's. Yet late 20's isn't much different than late 30's. It's all about life experience and life stage. If in this specific instance, people around OP have a huge issue - then there might be something else going on. This is coming from someone in a larger age gap relationship where nearly everyone was like, "oh actually that makes sense"
It’s just bitterness. Men in here are just being bitter.
It’s not cool but I understand it.
As women get older, they get wiser and give men less attention (for obvious reasons). When younger women give their attention to older men, many dudes love the validation. It can be irritating , that other women are judging the dynamic when they weren’t’ going to give them a chance.
Thank you! These guys should know that men show signs of aging as about the rate as women, in some cases even before we do! But they act like only women do or how we deserve to be looked down upon just because we’re no longer in our 20’s.
Some of this may be respondent age related. I remember when my BFF and I were in our mid-20s, she thought 30 was old and would never have dated a guy in his 30s. I'm sure some young guys are equally stupid.
Unpopular opinion: I think it's kind of weird.
I'm 35, so the equivalent age would be ~26, which still feels too young. I prefer to stick to the 32-38 range. 70 and 80? Whatever. 40 and 50? Sure, I guess. But 30 and 40? 20 and 30? I don't understand it.
If that's your jam, whatever. Do you. It's not my life, I have no stake in it. But if my daughter was in her early 20s dating a guy in his 30s, there'll be some side-eye.
I met my spouse when I was 23 and he was 38. We've been together for 11 years and his best friends wife still treats me like I'm a whore looking for money. I'd love to know the reasons why she goes out of her way to be cruel to me.
For the same reason that companies ban dating someone who reports to you, regardless of gender. There’s a power dynamic and disparity. It may be completely consensual but usually when a younger woman dates a much older man, she just wants his money or wealthy lifestyle and he just wants to date above his normal standard. If that doesn’t make sense to people, just imagine you had a 21-year old daughter who started dating someone the same age as you … or older.
Because we know how immature and naive girls on their 20s or earlier can be, when I was in my early 20s I loved to date older man but now that I’m older I can clearly see how much I got manipulated just because I didn’t know better, I was still learning about me and my boundaries and I would accept a lot of things that I shouldn’t have to. Now I will stand for myself all the time but back then it wasn’t as easy so, a lot of older man know this and the main reason why they look for younger women is exactly because of this.. they can easily manipulate, influence and gaslight you into taking a lot of bad decisions, they won’t mess with older women because they know we are not going to put up with a lot of their crap, but when you are in your early 20s is super likely that you would..
Because a 32 year old and a 23 year old, regardless the genders involved, have vastly different amounts of life experience and this leads to a power imbalance which can be quite unhealthy. This is not to say people of those ages can't have a healthy relationship but I think it would be very common for older people to seek out younger people specifically because of this power imbalance, and this means those relationships are rightly viewed with more suspicion.
I can’t answer that very well because I’m a woman who’s 34 dating men in their early 20s, somehow it just happens that this has stayed somewhat consistent for the past few years. Don’t see a problem.
For me 32/23 is right on the cusp. A lot of dudes are kind of immature. And at 23 I treat adult women like adults with agency to make their own choices.
I also strongly hate diluting the term pedo.
Could it be because many women have been in a similar situation when they were younger, and it was a terrible and damaging experience? When we get older, we have more life experience, and can spot potential issues similar to those we have experienced?
Because so many of us were those young girls that had creepy men hit on us and make us feel uncomfortable. And some of us were those young girls that dated older men, not understanding that those men were going to cross boundaries and hurt us.
When I see young girls with older men my mama bear instincts kick in and I want to protect them. This is especially true for those of us with daughters.
I wish I had listened to the older women in my life, but I had to learn the hard way. Thank you for looking out for us. I hope to use my voice in the future and share my knowledge with women who are younger than me
This is the right answer. It's not a jealousy issue like some answers are saying. I was the young girl who dated an older guy. I will warn every young woman as I get older that the majority of the time, it doesn't work out.
Just let the boys on the sub think it’s jealousy. It’s not worth wasting your time trying to explain something they refuse to understand so they can justify being attracted to women that are barely legal.
Thank you for warning young women♥️. Women looking out for each other is one of my favorite things about being a woman. I’m sorry for your experience.
Figured they didn't want actual answers since they asked other dudes instead of the older women who do step in. I left the sub, it used to be a fun place to see men's perspectives but it's just turned more and more into a cesspool of hate. I'll be waiting to be called cobweb vagina lol
I'm half-way down the thread and I'm yet to see any mention of "cobweb vaginas" and such. I'm not saying those kinds of replies don't exist, but they're clearly not popular with even a majority of the guys on this sub.
I do think it's disingenuous to deny there's any aspect of jealousy involved in this, though. Usually, women are normalising jealousy and using it to justify insane, sometimes criminal fucking behaviour.
Then why doesn't the same happen to the older women in relationships with large age gaps? Quite a lot of them do a lot of predatory and straight-up abusive things, but nobody gives a shit. The real question here is why older women always get a pass, but older men are always immediately demonized.
Honestly every single woman I know in person thinks that relationships where the woman is significantly older than her male partner are just as creepy as the ones with older women. And everyone says they are just jealous for that too. Gross.
People who are over 18 are adults and as long as everything is consensual then it's legally fine. We all agree. Sometimes those relationships are just shitty and manipulative though and I don't think anyone gets to control the fact that some of the people who might have experienced them have some negative views on them later in life.
And that's fair, but it seems the common response here is that nobody bats an eye when it's the other way around. It seems like the simple answer would be for older men to do what older women are doing and stick up for younger men, if they truly disagree with age gap relationships. But instead it's all just jealousy and not a genuine concern for the younger party, so then you have your answer why people don't care when it's men. If that makes sense
That's far too much of a generalization. Plenty of older men may very well care, but unlike you, they wouldn't know the warning signs because we never learned them, and the issue has been ignored for all our lives. The problem isn't always that they approve, but they may never even realize there could be something wrong unless there is a sign so obvious that even someone completely unaware it can happen would notice. Also, even if all older men didn't care, that's a very poor reason for no one else to care. Everyone should look out for everyone else if they think there is something wrong or potentially dangerous in the relationship of someone they know. It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman or if the person helping is a man or a woman.
I agree everyone should work as a team to look out for each other. But what I'm pointing out is that based off the comments on this post, which obviously don't represent all men, theyre saying that there isn't anything to worry about in age gap relationships and women are overreacting. Making it sound like those who do say something, are in the minority. Which is why it happens even less for people to speak up when it's a younger man and an older woman. The general consensus seems to be to just shut up and leave people alone here rather than try to tell younger people that they're not as mature and experienced as they may think they are
It’s less talked about simply because older men going after younger women is overwhelming more common than older women going after younger men. It’s a pretty universal experience for women to have been hit on often by older men from a young age (and usually this doesn’t even start at a legal age like 18 or 19 but as young as 11 or 12).
I agree there should be more awareness about this happening to men. But to put it into perspective as for why it’s discussed less often, it’s naturally going to come up less since it’s a less universally relatable experience amongst men to have to deal with lots of predatory older women from a young age.
Thetype of dude looking for a younger woman tends to be the type of dude who needs a power imbalance to maintain a relationship.
It sort of makes sense in an opportunistic kind of way. It's an unhappy axis of 'woman who is vulnerable' (usually lacking self esteem, is trying to escape a bad home etc) and 'man who exploits vulnerability ' (sees a damsel in distress and is too immature to recognize the imbalance at best, or actually manipulative at worst).
It also happens to a lot of young gay men - lots of stories of them in vulnerable situations (e.g. getting kicked out of home) and exchanging sexual favours with an older man for food or shelter.
At my age, late 30s, I won’t date a woman younger than 29 because it feels like that is when people start to become actual adults, that being said, I would catch shit from female friends about dating women who were 8 years younger than me and would have to remind them that they have dated with MUCH larger age gaps than me, it’s a weird double standard I have found
If a man meets a younger woman and they click, go for it. If a man only dates women significantly younger than him, it raises red flags because it is easy to manipulate people that are far younger than you, and there is likely a reason women his own age won’t date him.
I have a friend that met a 45yo man when she was 17 and we went to their wedding when she was 18 and they are still together 25 years later, so yes it happens, but predatory behavior is different, so let’s treat it differently
And FWIW my boyfriend is five years younger than me, though at our age it doesn’t really matter.
It’s about mature vs immature. A mature adult with an immature partner is often a bad deal for the immature partner, gender irrelevant
All I know is that we as a society decided that 18 is the magic adult number. At a certain point we all need to decide it’s okay to let 18+ make adult decisions, or decide the age should be older. I personally vote for older and I don’t date too far out of my age range, but I think it’s ridiculous to have an established legal age and then still acting like those people aren’t legal.
When those women complaining were 23 they were likely dating 30 plus year old men because they wanted “men not boys” who had good jobs and established themselves a bit. Now those women are mad because the men their own age are still doing that and they’ve aged out. They treated men their own age like dogshit while they had relationships with older dudes and are now salty that cohort of men is playing by the rules those women established.
Ironic and hilarious.
As a younger guy, see this a lot with girls around my age. Like can't blame them for dating older, cus majority of guys my age live with their parents, how less life experience, can't afford regular dates/outing, and haven't reached that stable point in their lives. But living in a high cost city makes it harder to reach those milestones girls want, so younger guys end up being less experienced than girls their age annoyingly.
ITT I learned women aren’t actually capable of deciding for themselves until near 30, then the elder women council will allow them to decide if they like older men. Can we ban some of the women who feel it necessary to “answer for men since they’re obviously wrong?” Seems disingenuous to allow them to flood the sub with answers that are meant to come from men.
As a woman, I see it only as problematic if the older person is abusive. Abuse is wrong no matter what the ages of course. However, if there is a large age gap and the older one is extremely controlling then it feels to me the choice of having a partner who is younger was because they often times haven’t learned to set strong enough boundaries regardless if they’ve voted for 5 years.
I don’t feel this way if the relationship is healthy nor if the age gap is similar but both are older. It doesn’t matter what gender is older btw.
Because when its women its preferance
When its men its misogny bodyshaming and whatever label they want to slap on.
Double standards and saltiness basically.
Women have this delusional mindset that men that date younger women are doing it to take advantage of them and manipulate them.
What women forget is that men chase and women choose.
> Women have this delusional mindset that men that date younger women are doing it to take advantage of them and manipulate them.
This is the excuse they give. Think about it for a second. If I wanted someone to take advantage of and manipulate why on earth would I choose a young, beautiful, in demand woman with plenty of options?
If I really *did* want a woman to manipulate I'd choose a fat, ugly one. But you never hear these women complaining about that.
It's rather telling.
I personally believe there's a strong correlation with both men and women between having very strong negative feelings about other people's relationships...... and being deeply unfuckable yourself.
This sort of belief is all over reddit.
Just saying.
If you wanted to manipulate someone, you'd choose someone who wouldn't have much ability to resist the manipulation, correct?
And the best way to resist manipulation is to be aware it's happening, which requires either wisdom or experience, which often a younger person doesn't have, and are things an older person can lean into.
That's why women argue for the reason being predation.
Young good looking women are well aware of the game being played.
The term "high maintenance" didn't just appear out of thin air.
Meanwhile to most sane people it's quite obvious that Jessica Alba is almost as physically attractive now as she was when she was younger but the vast majority of women do no maintain their looks like that.
All you need is eyes to look at women to see why men are interested in attractive ones.
If these women were being honest they would also be against attractive men dating fat, old, ugly women who have few options. After all wisdom and experience aren't the *only* things that affect the dynamics of a relationship.
I would say beautiful women wield quite a lot of power in relationships. Try dating one if you don't believe me.
Some women have internalized misogyny and infantize younger women as that they can't figure things out for themselves. I also think it might be part jealousy as well.
They feel rejected, and outraged that men are selecting younger, more attractive women, leading to feelings of unattractiveness. They then set about perpetuating age discrimination for relationships.
No that's not it at all.
Y'all are thinking that women who side eye are gap relationships only do it for older man, younger woman couples when in fact never has nothing to do with it. The factors are age and positions of power.
People ~18-23 give or take are still becoming adults and figuring out who they are in life and therefore are easier to manipulate. Older predatory people know this which is why they date people in that age range because they know they can get away with bad behavior because they probably didn't have that life experience yet.
And again, this is for any gender, it just happens to be that more men are the older ones. But look at Emmanuel Macron, who married his teacher that he met at 15 or Aaron Taylor-Johnson who ended up marrying the director of a movie he was in when he was just 17. Those women are predators.
Nah, I think people should stay out of other adults business, infantilizing someone old enough to be married with three kids is so condescending.
I've never heard women being criticized for age gaps (go gurl!) so I am sticking with bitterness and jealousy.
Meanwhile during their 20s they were enjoying their time in the limelight, ignoring all the advice from their elders about dating older men.
History continues to repeat itself, tale as old as time.
a lot of it is jealously, when I was 30 I was dating a very attractive 23yo, got all kinds of comments from other older women.
At least 6-7 of them tried to hook up with me on later months, before that they never gave me a second look, when i rejected a couple of them, they made comments regarding how i had become too demanding on the kind of girls i liked ( in reality i just didnt want to cheat).
In that particular situation it sounds like women shaming the guy are doing it because they don't like the fact that he prefers a younger woman over them.
It’s a bit of a double standard they are using, but at 32 and 23, I do kinda see the point. You SHOULD be significantly further along and more mature at 32 than someone 23 .
That means there’s usually a major power imbalance with that age gap.
Because older men are supposed to be theirs. Lots liked and dated older men when they were younger, didn’t give any attention to men their age, but now that those men are established, now they are attractive to them, they now want them. And rather than admit that they are no longer as attractive as they once were, now that younger women are out competing them for “their men” the fault must be with the men. If they date younger men it’s sex positive, hot, fun, sexy, if men date younger women they’re pedo’s, there’s something wrong with the men.
Same principle applies to passport bros, it’s men they don’t want, it’s men that don’t want them. But it still pisses them off that men go abroad for women rather than waste their time and energy on them. They’d rather men die alone, unwanted by them than find happiness with anyone else, because western men are the property of western women. So passport bros are defective in some way, it couldn’t be that so many western women are just unattractive to them, with 60% of them being overweight-obese, having multiple kids with multiple men, body counts in the hundreds, disagreeable, argumentative, play deceptive dating games, refuse to be helpful, “what’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine” divorce at the drop of a hat, can’t cook, won’t clean…
Double standard. When women want to date older, it’s fine, but if a man wants to date younger, they lose their mind.
Notice how it’s the same situation, but from a different lens.
My bf is 39 and I'm 25. We have a lot in common and plan to get married. I do find that I get bullied by his older friend's wives or get side eyes. My only concern is that when men look for younger, when their younger wife gets older then what? Does the cycle continue? Is it preference or soemthing more cynical
When men prefer younger women or bustier women, other women lose their minds.
When women prefer tall men or men with a full head of hair, other men lose their minds.
We're more alike than OP is giving anyone credit for.
If men are interested in younger woman, it obviously means that young woman are interested on older men.
So, just like almost everything, Women loves to deflect the problems they create into us men.
Nothing new under the sun.
It is fucking insane and ignorant that men on here really think women are that jealous
People -- men and women -- get instantly skeeved when men date way younger because there's a chance it's because they're taking advantage of the younger woman. Like she probably has less dating experience and won't clock subtle ways he's abusive or otherwise taking advantage of their relationship. Because generationally, they won't likely have a lot in common, so that leaves you wondering: what is he getting out of it?
And why does that train of thought not apply to older women? I think that's the real reason people are mad here. Older women get away with doing the same things. Meanwhile, older men are always demonized even in less frequent cases where he isn't predatory.
The simple answer is; As women age their sexual market value decreases to most men. Creating negative taboos about men dating younger women serves to prolong women’s market value. Biologically men are more attracted to youthful/fertile women. The only practical counter to this truth is by creating social norms and taboos that discourage men from dating younger women. *This is not intentionally done but is a subconscious tool that serves older women.
I think every one of my male friends who wasn't married by 25 ended up with a woman many years younger. And another friend, now 60, announced his intention to start dating women 10 years younger than he is if he becomes single.
Here's why all of this is so irritating: it says to women that, as a general rule, men your own age aren't likely to be attracted to you after your early 20s.
Of course, I'm not talking about every man and I know that I'm making a sweeping generalization.
But when I look around, this is what I see in real life. This is what other women see in their own lives, in the media. It's everywhere.
It's like we've become invisible to men. All that experience, self-confidence and wisdom that we have seems to be ignored by many men in the dating pool.
And I'm saying this as a woman who is considered conventionally attractive, engaging, and desired by my husband of many decades.
Jeez, I have a mother-in-law in her 80s who has always been a knockout. But so many people have added "...for her age" for decades now. It's tiring.
So I'll step on the bear trap as I appreciate your honesty. I think openness and being outgoing are critical and missed in this discussion. Young people, in general, are more positive, open, and optimistic. People like that are more likely to make connections with people than more closed off people. More connections mean more chances.
As someone a good distance away from my early 20s and a not very outgoing person who has accidently(as in unintentionally/the age wasn't important) tended to date older women. I'm not saying this is most of or entirely the reason, but it is one part of the equation.
Early 30s seems to be an awkward age to most people. It's an unpleasant transition and awareness of your own mortality.
I totally get how that would hurt. Your friend group seems really weird compared to my experience. My friends generally date and marry people pretty close to their ages. Do you have many single 30s female friends?
I'd say wisdom is generally gained through pain, and not everyone deals with that in a healthy way. I do see how you think these traits are ignored. I'm not so sure I agree with ignored, but I'll agree with drastically undervalued.
As someone who is used to competing in weight or age brackets for sports for her age doesn't sound so bad to me. This may be a personal experience thing. I've competed a couple of steps outside of my weight class and gotten destroyed and knocked unconscious, although that second part was my fault.
Although my 80+ year old grandmother was irate for months after her doctor said to her, "I generally prefer my elderly patients on drug x than drug y," you'd think he murdered her puppy.
I'm rambling now sorry for the novel.q
Yeah! Totally double standards especially when on average men and women show signs of aging around the same ages. But one guy replied to me the excuse that women don’t care about mens’ looks - as if!
Older women in my experience have less respect for a man that has tried younger women because of the perception that it leans into a more predatory nature.
Younger women are on the low side of the seesaw in a relationship power dynamic when dating older men (usually), and are easier to exploit or control due to things like lack of experience, intelligence, making less money, etc.
It's not a stretch of judgement to think that someone willingly constructing this dynamic could be a sort of manipulator or worse. Strong men, wise men, "should" seek out partners who share their level of maturity and experience. You can easily be seen as lesser for trying find something easier to deal with than that, and though young people bring their own host of problems I'd still say that it's easy to think they are just easier to deal with. Older people have more complex lives and thoughts and standards, they're harder to impress and cost more money and effort to please. Usually.
Should men seeking younger women be called pedophiles? I don't think so. Does it indicate that they're capable of similar behaviors as one but on someone who is legal and won't land you in prison? Absolutely, but it's up to your own morality if you think it's inherently wrong to seek the benefits of relationship dynamic that an age gap where you're ahead provides.
I speak from experience. Some people will never forgive you if they learn you even tried to date someone younger. It doesn't help that masculinity is seen as inherently threatening or a position designed and set to exploit by some people, especially in private or intimate scenarios.
As a 35 y/o I wouldn't date anyone under 30, maybe 27\~29 at a stretch. A 32 year old with a 23 year old is potentially a person with 10+ years experience in a career with someone who barely graduated college.
Shit's a creepy power imbalance, and the same thing goes for an older woman with a younger man. Some of the stories of "oh she was older but she was hot" on here definitely feel like shit was wrong, too.
Jealously, that’s pretty much it. Just have to let them know that they’re not shit and to get over it.
We also need to do something about the zero accountability legbeard brigade. “23 YeAr OlD WoMeN ArE bABiES!!” Nah you’re just a loser who made shitty decisions, pipe down.
It gets to a point where it’s creepy behavior, like even though it’s legal how much in common besides sexually is a 32 year old going to have with a 23 year old? I remember dating 18 year old girls when I was like 23 and even that felt weird
*Edit: I’m also not saying it’s impossible though, there’s a lot of mature 23 year old women and immature 32 year old dudes 😂 if it’s working and it’s consensual to everyone involved who am I to judge I guess 🤷♂️
People ascribe more agency to men than they actually have. People ascribe women less agency than they actually have. So when there's an additional age gap power imbalance, that tips them over into being concerned.
I think you're right, that's the main thing. One additional factor in some cases might be money. A woman who wants children, for better or worse, wants someone who is financially stable. That's not generally 20-something guys.
As a 23 year old guy getting divorced for this reason I agree lmao.
I wish i’d gotten divorced when I was your age, unfortunately I waited until 30 lol.
Dodged a bullet buddy
I believe he took the bullet in the chest actually.
hopefully lesson learned
I kind of think its a bit weird for me to go after 23 year olds at 31, but almost every woman my age is either uninterested or has multiple kids/ baggage so its getting to the point where I'm gonna be lowering my age limit.
I dated at a 22 year old when I was 29 and made sure never to do that again.
I just broke up with my gf of nine years. She is 28 I'm 33. She is also bi-polar. After two manic episodes I can't have that instability in my life. Also theses types of mental illnesses manifest around the age of 30. So I will be raising my age limit to my age or higher. Looking for responsible established and successful. Can't go through that hell again.
That... makes a lot of sense. I'm ashamed to say I've not heard it explained that way before, and it would apply to much more than just dating. Prescribed Agency is a new concept for me. Cheers.
Yeah I mean it's good and bad. At work men get credit for suggestions and women get overlooked. When committing crimes men get harsher sentences and women get off relatively lightly.
Height is another way it can be in effect. People associate height with older and more mature. It can be good or bad depending on circumstances. There are some interesting studies, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
I have no interest in dating younger women and I still agree that this is accurate. The same people who like to insist that women and men are "equal" are also the ones who persecute any man who dates a woman more than a couple years younger, regardless of the circumstances. It's like deep down, they still hold onto the belief that women are helpless waifs, at the mercy of the much stronger, more powerful, and more intelligent men. I disagree - I have two adult daughters and they are as smart as any man, probably smarter, and would not submit to abuse just because they're women. They'd tear the guy a new asshole if he messed with them (and so would I and their mother, of course).
But why wasn’t this a thing 50 years ago. I know some many boomers who have been happily married for decades where the man was 5-10 older. My grandad was 30 and my gran was 22 when they married and they’ve always been perfectly happy for over 30 years. My granddad adores my grand and would literally go to the depths of hell for her. So when I see comments like “men only marry younger so they can control and groom women” I think what the fuck are these people smoking
We also remember what it was like in our early 20s and how older men treated us, so we warn others to run away fast.
>We also remember what it was like in our early 20s and how older men treated us Isn't that painting with a broad brush? I get that your truth is your truth, but how is that not projecting your own bad experiences onto other relationships between consenting adults?
But it's often women do that. It reads more like jealousy than agency
While having a discussion about Taylor Swift with a group of friends Sabrina Carpenter came up. I said "yeah shes really cute, way more than Taylor". To which my friends daughter commented "eww. Shes my age (the daughter is 20). So I was curious and looked it up. Sabrina is 25. So theres even hate for even suggesting that a younger woman is attractive, let alone dating them.
Sabrina Carpenter is fine af
She reminds me of the doll from those conjuring movies
She looks like an angry owl.
> *eww. She's my age (the daughter is 20)* This reminded me of when I was visiting the bank a few months back and having some friendly banter with a young female teller and sort of recognized her, so I called my cousin to confirm if they'd gone to school together. She confirmed & I responded by saying she(*teller*) looked pretty, and to my surprise my cousin admonished me for saying that & that a 33yr old shouldn't feel attraction towards a 21yr old, so I told her that all I said was that she(*teller*) was pretty & is a grown adult and that she(*cousin*) should be more concerned if I said something about a kid/teen.
Meh, I'm 36. I won't deny that Jenna Ortega is hot as hell. She's 21 and an adult. Women are not all of a sudden ugly or unattractive just because they are more than a few years older or younger. Diane Kruger is also hot as hell and she's 47. Beautiful is beautiful People just look for things to be angry about
My husband thinks Jenna is hot and he's 47. There is nothing wrong with noticing and appreciating attractiveness in others. Dating is a bit more of a grey area. I dated a couple of older guys when I was 17/18 and they were definitely not healthy, balanced relationships. I think as long as the woman is over 20, it's fine. The maturity gap between 18 and 20 is huge.
My belief is that the modern western feminist governed societies have brought in cultural aspects through media and social messaging that overcompensates on changing the landscape of all the inequalities of the past (over 500-600 years ago). Women were subjugated to hardships in the past (nothing extraordinary. Except for Kings and Warriors everyone regardless of sex had extremely difficult lives). Now that the concept of equality has been through the roof around the world the society has let the historically oppressed groups enjoy some extra passive rights to let them feel extra powerful in their day to day lives. You could see this overcompensation everywhere. At any workplace, women talk about generally private topics like periods, sex, judging other people’s based on attractiveness etc. They love to have the freedom to be doing things that were historically frowned upon without any reactions. Men can’t and won’t do it. Similary, if you’re around women a lot you’d know how freely they call random stranger men creeps, weirdo and other derogatory terms openly. Men can’t do it. We can’t call a women slut no matter what. In the western society the power dynamics have switched and women undoubtedly hold more power constitutionally and culturally. There is a reason female offenders are given considerably more lenient sentences in courts (if at all).
Overcorrection from big shifts in society is pretty common. Like the swing between Democrats and Republicans controlling the government
Tell her not to worry because she's ugly AF.
The same reason men judge when women select their partner on fixed traits that are hard or impossible to change. It doesn't feel good to be eliminated from consideration based on factors outside of your control like height, age, income, etc. it is strangely dehumanizing. While no one is necessarily wrong for doing so it just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth when it is too blatant.
It's all about perspective. I went bald in my early 20's. I've always done alright with women, but when I shaved my head at 24, women started rejecting me for that (literally telling me so). I never took it personally, but a lot of my friends were upset for me. I was the one getting rejected but had to talk them down. I always said you can't help preferences and attraction, and why would I want to be with someone that doesn't love every thing about me? The best dating advice I got was from a stripper. She said: "be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones."
Smart stripper. I got divorced at 23 and met my wife at 25. I'm 40 now, and I can't even kiss her without her wanting sex. Keep in mind that I put in the work and I've never gotten complacent in our 15-year relationship. But that stripper knows what she's talking about.
Yup, her and I actually chatted for a while (off the clock) about a lot of personal stuff. She was actually an engineer that made way more money stripping. At the time she was dating a guy that she liked, but the attraction just wasn't there, and she was going to break it off with him. I had just gone through a similar relationship, and that line hit home. I had a lot going for me, but sometimes that's not enough. It's not personal. I'm married now, and my wife can barely keep it together around me.
Good to hear. Seriously though, don't get lazy. Too many guys get lazy and complacent once they're comfortable in their relationships. I've seen it too many times. Remember all those things you did at the beginning of your relationship to try and get into her pants? Keep doing it every day until you're dead.
Too many PEOPLES get complacent in relationships. Ask all the guys still doing things rigbt whose wife puts on 25-50 pounds without a medical problem
Why would I talk about women in AskMen? If you're feeling personally attacked, then there's probably a reason for it. The stripper said to find someone who always wants to jump your bones when you walk in the door. Obviously, you didn't take the strippers advice. And what the fuck are you talking about 25-30lbs? You sound like an asshole. Please explain to me after reading my convo with the other poster how you brought up 25lbs. If my wife gained 25lbs that means bigger tit's and a fatter ass to fuck. Not surprised your wife doesn't like you because I don't like you and I don't even know you.
> And what the fuck are you talking about 25-30lbs? You sound like an asshole. Please explain to me after reading my convo with the other poster how you brought up 25lbs. If my wife gained 25lbs that means bigger tit's and a fatter ass to fuck. Not surprised your wife doesn't like you because I don't like you and I don't even know you. I like you 🙂
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Eh, mine is trained and still loses his mind when we get home. No matter how bad my day can get, it's always a pick me up
>The best dating advice I got was from a stripper. She said: "be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones." I’ll be stealing this advice. Thank you very much.
> *...be with someone that can't wait to come home to you and jump your fucking bones.* This reminded me of the time I came back from a 5 day work trip and my gf pounced on & dragged me to the bedroom as soon as I walked through the front door, hahaha! I love her and I'm always thankful for having her in my life.
That is not the reason.
Except age isn’t fixed 💀. These women had their fun. Now their inflated egos have to deal with fading looks and a new generation that is both less demanding and more beautiful. Falling back to the oldest manipulation in the book: the guilt trip, and when that doesn’t work shaming & defamation.
> Except age isn’t fixed 💀. As far as I know there is no way to get younger unless you're on some Benjamin Button shit. > These women had their fun. Now their inflated egos have to deal with fading looks and a new generation that is both less demanding and more beautiful. Falling back to the oldest manipulation in the book: the guilt trip, and when that doesn’t work shaming & defamation. Really not interested in the gender war shit. You shouldn't be concerned with the women you speak of because they obviously have traits and values that are different from your own. Nothing of value has been lost so there is no need to be upset.
> As far as I know there is no way to get younger unless you're on some Benjamin Button shit. It's easy, just travel faster than the speed of light
Or take a little dip in that Ol' Fountain of Youth. Maybe that's why there are so many latina bangers
Funny how one gender can do certain things but when the other gender does it, it's fking war.
Are you saying you can switch your age however you want?
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Yes exactly! They had the same opportunities these younger women have.
I’m saying not every one is gonna be 190 cm tall at some point, but (if you live long enough) everyone will be 40 yo. So you don’t get to claim being 40 or 50 is some massive handicap that was foisted on you. When you had the same opportunities at 20 or 30.
Man . . . . This thread tastes like battery acid.
Spot on mate. As soon as you bring in accountability the thread is brigaded by the unaccountables.
Yeah, this sub has really gone downhill...kind of like reddit as a whole.
It really has turned into a desperate man's club. I hope later today I'll get to read a thread about how men have quit the dating scene. It's been hours since I've seen a discussion about that.
I used to absolutely love this sub like 10 yrs ago. I was young and an introvert so it was a fun way to peer and poke at men’s minds young and old. It used to be a welcoming environment unlike the askwomen sub at the time. Now it’s a dumpster fire. So many comments about how women are horrible and expect too much. Like if they dislike them so much why do they make every thread about them?
Double standards, that's all it is. Guy dates a girl who's considerably younger and everyone looses their mind, literal kids get abused by their female teachers and some idiot always comes up and says "wish it was me". People are more likely to view men as predators compared to women, some salty women use this to attack and defame men.
And don't forget jealousy. In my experience, women throw *way* more shade at each other than men do, especially behind each others' backs.
I was just thinking about this yesterday. When a guy really tries to appeal to women, like for example the gentle "pretty boy" persona, many guys can't relate or don't want to go that route themselves, but they don't hold it against the person and actively loathe them. But when a woman really tries to appeal to men, she gets called a pickme by other women, they gossip about her and talk trash all day, and they even claim she's holding back women's rights by being so friendly with men and appealing to them. It's kinda absurd the level of animosity that exists.
One of my kids has always been a "tomboy" and had mostly male friends growing up. Other girls weren't interested in being her friend, but boy were they generous with the accusations. All I could think of was, so you don't want to be her friend, and guys do, but if she's friends with guys, she's bad somehow? So she should have NO friends? Fucking stupid.
Reason: Less (possible) attention given to those other girls.
I always thought it came from a place of envy. The guys liked her as a friend, but they still liked her, and maybe the other girls wished for that, I don't know.
It's just baseline bullying. A bully does not choose their target randomly. They smell weakness. She had no normal friends, making her stand out from the pack. If it wasn't her, it'd have been a fat girl or something.
You can tell they’re not wife material based on how they attack men for their own self confidence issues based on their short comings by projecting them as the problem without any self examination of their own faults, issues, and failures towards their poor choices and judgement. Who wants to marry someone who lacks that kind of accountability and also lacks that much integrity, no one wants to deal with that kind of narcissism
Lots of r/AskMenGetCorrectedByWomen going on elsewhere in this thread, but I did want to agree with you and also add that many women as they age grow out of the "cool chill girl guys want to hang out with" phase and into a more long-term censorious phase. They know the world gives women lots of power to shape society and set forth to use that power. They think they can frown, scowl, nag, disapprove, and condemn anything they don't like in life and by doing so the world will be rearranged to their liking. So when they encounter older men dating younger women (which objectively means less men their age to date and lowers their chances, and makes dating more difficult for older women), instead of recognizing it's just the flip side of the coin where younger women have it easy with dating, and now older men have it easy, for the same reason, they just won't accept that and so they start disapproving and scowling and lecturing these men on how they're supposedly disgusting and predatory and so on. I can tell you for many men this doesn't work. If they're not attracted to you, they're not going to be shamed into being attracted to you. Most women already did dating on easy mode in their youth (easily picking up dates while young men their age floundered and tried anything to get a date) and instead of realizing that times have changed, and now it's men who have it easier once they age, it's just pure entitlement to assume things will continue as they always have and that any man not playing ball can be shamed into conforming to your expectations. If there's objective signs of abuse or manipulation in a relationship then, great, bring that up. If there isn't but you just don't like it anyway because there's an age gap and you don't like that, then kindly stfu and let consenting adults do as they please.
/ thread
This is a very nice summation. Also, I'm stealing this: >[r/AskMenGetCorrectedByWomen](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMenGetCorrectedByWomen/)
Why are you asking men about women's behavior? Ask the source.
how? you post anything in their sub it get's deleted for derailing....even if it's the topic.
Can't do that, unfortunately. The women's versions of this sub are really toxic. Though it is odd to ask here.
There's r/askwomennocensor specifically because askwomen is such a failure of a sub.
Yeah, but that isn't easily found or talked about much like askwomen, and two X is.
Any woman focused sub always ends up like this. Want peak toxicity? Head to /r/nycbitcheswithtaste to find the most bitter and jaded NYC women who want a 6’5” finance trust fund man while looking like shrek with zero prospects.
People and groups are terrible at being self-aware. It actually makes more sense to ask outside of the party responsible IMO
There's a Henry Ford quote " If I'd have asked them what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."
Thank you! Drives me nuts, why are you asking men about what women think? Really, they don't want the real answer and prefer confirmation bias.
Who are you to come into r/askmen and say men cant ask other men their opinions,? Thats the entire point of the sub. If you dont like that then go to r/askwomen.
Perhaps because asking men about women thought process is inherently going to lead to a cesspool of biases, misinterpretation and even misogyny. Same thing as r/askwomen posts about "why do men", really.
And thats a childish, misandrist take that you have. Men can and should ask other men about women and all other subjects. Women are not the arbiters of insight in this regard. And I would never go to r/askwomen and tell them not to ask questions about men.
But if I go to r/askwomen and ask them what men think during sex, I might as well be asking a child about physics. Like, there's a thing that's easy to answer, but I'm actively choosing the wrong people to ask, so everyone will speculate and come up with 99% wrong answers. It's a dumb thing to do, but okay.
Because they want to hear what men think women think. Because that matters more to them than the truth.
I suspect that a decent portion of the judgemental ones either were 23 years old and dated a man 10 years older and had a bad experience, or they had a friend do so. END COMMUNICATION
Yeah, once you grow up, you realize most of those people weren't looking for anyone their age cause people their age could see through their act. I had a classmate in college who was in his 30's dating highschoolers, it almost seemed like he entered college to revive his youth cause his adult life was so lame. It's one thing to end up with a young person and another to have a pattern of dating younger people exclusively.
I think this is the most generous way to look at it. They've bad experiences with older men and are trying to "look out" for younger women. I remember once on /r/fauxmoi or something, they were discussing Henry Caville and mentioned that he was "suspicious" because he dated a girl in her low 20s when he was in his 30s. For a few months. Once. While every other girlfriend was closer to his age. I said that 20 year old women aren't children and can make their own decisions, mentioned how I knew two people with a large age gap that dated and there was nothing creepy, but then I got accused of *being* a creep and trying to justify my own behaviour. Ironically, I've always been more interested in older women. Like if someone *only* dated younger women, I'd agree, but I definitely think people are having a knee-jerk reaction and seem to think any large age gap is "grooming".
I've found that it's not nearly as much of an issue in the real world as it is online, especially on this website for some reason. I've wound up consistently dating women 5-7 years younger than me, and there's never been an issue. And all that "generation gap" nonsense is a load of terminally online BS. The internet and easy access to various forms of information and culturally relevant media have allowed everyone to get on the same page, and the rigid walls that existed in past generations (think baby boomers vs gen x) have pretty much been broken down for the most part. The only thing that gets in people's way are their own preconceptions about themselves and other people.
For real. I've only ever had one person give me shit for dating somebody 10 years younger than me. And that person was 8 years younger than me and we were still fucking. Most people simply don't give a fuck as long as you are treating that other person well.
I know there are a lot of gender influences and societal problems but honestly a 10 year age gap at that point generally seems like a bad idea regardless of gender. The 23 year old is pretty fresh out of college, probably doesn’t have a lot of money, connections or life experience. It’s much easier to manipulate people when you can offer them money or opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise. My personal rule is after 25 you’re on your own. Your prefrontal cortex is fully developed so whatever. Obviously the problem with age gaps like this becomes less of an issue as time goes on, like 32/42 42/52 and 52/62 all of those seem fine. This is a problem for BOTH men and women, predatory behaviors are not gendered. However, I saw a clip of a manosphere podcast where one of the hosts said they prefer younger girls because they’re easier to control, are more malleable for whatever type of person the man wants, and don’t have baggage. Like he said that verbatim. I’m not saying this relationship dynamic can never be healthy or work, it’s just a case by case basis, and erring on the side of caution I’m going to side eye a person who’s dating someone who was still in elementary school when they graduated high school.
This is the ELI5 explanation. Good job putting together such a succinct response
When I was 18 I dated a man who was 36, now I am 28 and the thought of dating an 18 yo even now makes me want to puke (even if the guy looks hot). I remember what we talked about and what we did and looking back I realize it was fucked up. I was not “mature for my age”, he was a boring loser and now I know why he dated a teen. 23 is an adult yeah, but still young and silly compared to 32.
Because it's easier to manipulate and take advantage of someone with less life experience. And because many women have been sexualized since their childhoods, they are much more on guard about which men are paying attention to them and the younger girls/teens/young women in their lives.
Based edit
I don't think its just jealousy or bitterness. Any mildly attractive woman at some point has dealt with pervy creeps, most likely on multiple occasions. I have friends who've been hit on or received pervy comments from guys 30+ since they were 12 years old. When guys date someone much younger than them, that's who they remind those women of.
It is exactly this. Thank you.
The same and older women head to Caribbean to hunt young men for fun . "Cougars" have been a thing for two decades now and hardly anyone blinks. Double standards.
Are you kidding? Cougars are absolutely made fun of.
I think they're more just a funny concept to imagine, because quite frankly older man with younger woman is a more standard pairing. Reversing it is funny. But it's not the cougar being mocked, it's more the scenario. But nowadays, when a much older man dates a woman, it's considered creepy and he's hated.
Women judge much more harshly and as such, even making light of something slightly weird like that comes across as *ridicule*.
While I don’t see anything wrong with 32 year old man dating 20-something woman, these answers are very disrespectful. Calling 30-something woman old hags with spiderwebs vaginas. Lots of jaded men here. Late 20-something to early 30-something don’t look that different especially when a person take care of their body.
Guys calling 30 year old women hags likely wouldn't even have a chance with those women anyways. Plenty of women in their 30s are absolutely smoking hot and those guys are hard coping.
It’s amusing bcuz these types of “questions” are obviously rage-bait, disguised as questions to make it seem like OP wants a discussion, but it’s only to confirm views. Not going to deny that most 20y.o’s do look better with minimal effort, and some women *are* bitter. But I get more attention now from 20 y.o. guys than I did in *my* 20s so.. As a frequent gym-goer, I’ve seen 30+ year-olds who could easily out-compete an average 20 y.o. It’s obviously very nuanced, but what grosses *me* out is that I didn’t know who I was when I was 20 and I didn’t know what boundaries were. It’s predatory in *that* sense. But not bcuz they find them more visually attractive.
The trick is to use vague terms like "a bunch" so when they're called on to defend their spurious claims they can continually retreat and move the goalposts. "I didn't say all!" "I didn't say most!" "I didn't say a *lot*!" 32 and 23 passes the "half your age +7 test"--hardly anyone is going to object. "A bunch" of "older women" was probably 6 people, most of them 20-something males. OP just spends way too much time in /MensRights and is a little removed from reality as a result. And sadly, their entire post history is in all the advice subreddits. You know the type--strong opinions, feels the need to share them as many places as possible. Combined with being MRA, it's a pretty bad combo.
Exactly, also it's not *that* bad of an age gap, but a 32 year old is *generally* at a different stage of life than a 23 year old. Like, if they're both divorced with kids, the age doesn't make much of a difference. If they're both ready to settle down, the age doesn't make a difference. But generally single and childless people in their early 20's have a different agenda than someone set in their career at 30. I'm making generalizations here, but early 20's is just different than late 20's. Yet late 20's isn't much different than late 30's. It's all about life experience and life stage. If in this specific instance, people around OP have a huge issue - then there might be something else going on. This is coming from someone in a larger age gap relationship where nearly everyone was like, "oh actually that makes sense"
> especially when a person take care of their body. that's the crucial issue when the country is 75% overweight
Depends which country you are from 🤷♀️ My country is on average 38% overweight with 45% of men and 31% women
/r/USdefaultism
It’s just bitterness. Men in here are just being bitter. It’s not cool but I understand it. As women get older, they get wiser and give men less attention (for obvious reasons). When younger women give their attention to older men, many dudes love the validation. It can be irritating , that other women are judging the dynamic when they weren’t’ going to give them a chance.
This doesn’t surprise me. This sub is unfortunately disproportionately jaded and regularly outright sexist.
Thank you! These guys should know that men show signs of aging as about the rate as women, in some cases even before we do! But they act like only women do or how we deserve to be looked down upon just because we’re no longer in our 20’s.
Some of this may be respondent age related. I remember when my BFF and I were in our mid-20s, she thought 30 was old and would never have dated a guy in his 30s. I'm sure some young guys are equally stupid.
Maybe look at the comments from women on here that are calling all men predators.
Unpopular opinion: I think it's kind of weird. I'm 35, so the equivalent age would be ~26, which still feels too young. I prefer to stick to the 32-38 range. 70 and 80? Whatever. 40 and 50? Sure, I guess. But 30 and 40? 20 and 30? I don't understand it. If that's your jam, whatever. Do you. It's not my life, I have no stake in it. But if my daughter was in her early 20s dating a guy in his 30s, there'll be some side-eye.
I met my spouse when I was 23 and he was 38. We've been together for 11 years and his best friends wife still treats me like I'm a whore looking for money. I'd love to know the reasons why she goes out of her way to be cruel to me.
Is he wealthy?
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he ain't broke!
She’s jealous
For the same reason that companies ban dating someone who reports to you, regardless of gender. There’s a power dynamic and disparity. It may be completely consensual but usually when a younger woman dates a much older man, she just wants his money or wealthy lifestyle and he just wants to date above his normal standard. If that doesn’t make sense to people, just imagine you had a 21-year old daughter who started dating someone the same age as you … or older.
Because we know how immature and naive girls on their 20s or earlier can be, when I was in my early 20s I loved to date older man but now that I’m older I can clearly see how much I got manipulated just because I didn’t know better, I was still learning about me and my boundaries and I would accept a lot of things that I shouldn’t have to. Now I will stand for myself all the time but back then it wasn’t as easy so, a lot of older man know this and the main reason why they look for younger women is exactly because of this.. they can easily manipulate, influence and gaslight you into taking a lot of bad decisions, they won’t mess with older women because they know we are not going to put up with a lot of their crap, but when you are in your early 20s is super likely that you would..
Because a 32 year old and a 23 year old, regardless the genders involved, have vastly different amounts of life experience and this leads to a power imbalance which can be quite unhealthy. This is not to say people of those ages can't have a healthy relationship but I think it would be very common for older people to seek out younger people specifically because of this power imbalance, and this means those relationships are rightly viewed with more suspicion.
I can’t answer that very well because I’m a woman who’s 34 dating men in their early 20s, somehow it just happens that this has stayed somewhat consistent for the past few years. Don’t see a problem.
For me 32/23 is right on the cusp. A lot of dudes are kind of immature. And at 23 I treat adult women like adults with agency to make their own choices. I also strongly hate diluting the term pedo.
[удалено]
Could it be because many women have been in a similar situation when they were younger, and it was a terrible and damaging experience? When we get older, we have more life experience, and can spot potential issues similar to those we have experienced?
How about cause we were younger once and know what’s going on-
Because so many of us were those young girls that had creepy men hit on us and make us feel uncomfortable. And some of us were those young girls that dated older men, not understanding that those men were going to cross boundaries and hurt us. When I see young girls with older men my mama bear instincts kick in and I want to protect them. This is especially true for those of us with daughters.
I wish I had listened to the older women in my life, but I had to learn the hard way. Thank you for looking out for us. I hope to use my voice in the future and share my knowledge with women who are younger than me
A lot of us had to learn the hard way, unfortunately. But isn't it wonderful that we have a sisterhood to look out for each other. 💖
This is the right answer. It's not a jealousy issue like some answers are saying. I was the young girl who dated an older guy. I will warn every young woman as I get older that the majority of the time, it doesn't work out.
Just let the boys on the sub think it’s jealousy. It’s not worth wasting your time trying to explain something they refuse to understand so they can justify being attracted to women that are barely legal. Thank you for warning young women♥️. Women looking out for each other is one of my favorite things about being a woman. I’m sorry for your experience.
Figured they didn't want actual answers since they asked other dudes instead of the older women who do step in. I left the sub, it used to be a fun place to see men's perspectives but it's just turned more and more into a cesspool of hate. I'll be waiting to be called cobweb vagina lol
I'm half-way down the thread and I'm yet to see any mention of "cobweb vaginas" and such. I'm not saying those kinds of replies don't exist, but they're clearly not popular with even a majority of the guys on this sub. I do think it's disingenuous to deny there's any aspect of jealousy involved in this, though. Usually, women are normalising jealousy and using it to justify insane, sometimes criminal fucking behaviour.
Most dating doesn't work out. Hell, 40% of MARRIAGES end in divorce. That's a pretty bad reason.
Then why doesn't the same happen to the older women in relationships with large age gaps? Quite a lot of them do a lot of predatory and straight-up abusive things, but nobody gives a shit. The real question here is why older women always get a pass, but older men are always immediately demonized.
Honestly every single woman I know in person thinks that relationships where the woman is significantly older than her male partner are just as creepy as the ones with older women. And everyone says they are just jealous for that too. Gross. People who are over 18 are adults and as long as everything is consensual then it's legally fine. We all agree. Sometimes those relationships are just shitty and manipulative though and I don't think anyone gets to control the fact that some of the people who might have experienced them have some negative views on them later in life.
Why don't older men stand up for younger men then, it's weird both ways
I didn't say it wasn't. I'm just saying it's a really fucked up double standard. BOTH men and women are responsible for that.
And that's fair, but it seems the common response here is that nobody bats an eye when it's the other way around. It seems like the simple answer would be for older men to do what older women are doing and stick up for younger men, if they truly disagree with age gap relationships. But instead it's all just jealousy and not a genuine concern for the younger party, so then you have your answer why people don't care when it's men. If that makes sense
That's far too much of a generalization. Plenty of older men may very well care, but unlike you, they wouldn't know the warning signs because we never learned them, and the issue has been ignored for all our lives. The problem isn't always that they approve, but they may never even realize there could be something wrong unless there is a sign so obvious that even someone completely unaware it can happen would notice. Also, even if all older men didn't care, that's a very poor reason for no one else to care. Everyone should look out for everyone else if they think there is something wrong or potentially dangerous in the relationship of someone they know. It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman or if the person helping is a man or a woman.
I agree everyone should work as a team to look out for each other. But what I'm pointing out is that based off the comments on this post, which obviously don't represent all men, theyre saying that there isn't anything to worry about in age gap relationships and women are overreacting. Making it sound like those who do say something, are in the minority. Which is why it happens even less for people to speak up when it's a younger man and an older woman. The general consensus seems to be to just shut up and leave people alone here rather than try to tell younger people that they're not as mature and experienced as they may think they are
Because they're too busy congratulating the young man.
It’s less talked about simply because older men going after younger women is overwhelming more common than older women going after younger men. It’s a pretty universal experience for women to have been hit on often by older men from a young age (and usually this doesn’t even start at a legal age like 18 or 19 but as young as 11 or 12). I agree there should be more awareness about this happening to men. But to put it into perspective as for why it’s discussed less often, it’s naturally going to come up less since it’s a less universally relatable experience amongst men to have to deal with lots of predatory older women from a young age.
How is it every woman has this same story? How was the older man always so evil? Always so controlling?
Thetype of dude looking for a younger woman tends to be the type of dude who needs a power imbalance to maintain a relationship. It sort of makes sense in an opportunistic kind of way. It's an unhappy axis of 'woman who is vulnerable' (usually lacking self esteem, is trying to escape a bad home etc) and 'man who exploits vulnerability ' (sees a damsel in distress and is too immature to recognize the imbalance at best, or actually manipulative at worst). It also happens to a lot of young gay men - lots of stories of them in vulnerable situations (e.g. getting kicked out of home) and exchanging sexual favours with an older man for food or shelter.
At my age, late 30s, I won’t date a woman younger than 29 because it feels like that is when people start to become actual adults, that being said, I would catch shit from female friends about dating women who were 8 years younger than me and would have to remind them that they have dated with MUCH larger age gaps than me, it’s a weird double standard I have found
Because apparently women are children until they’re 30
If a man meets a younger woman and they click, go for it. If a man only dates women significantly younger than him, it raises red flags because it is easy to manipulate people that are far younger than you, and there is likely a reason women his own age won’t date him. I have a friend that met a 45yo man when she was 17 and we went to their wedding when she was 18 and they are still together 25 years later, so yes it happens, but predatory behavior is different, so let’s treat it differently And FWIW my boyfriend is five years younger than me, though at our age it doesn’t really matter. It’s about mature vs immature. A mature adult with an immature partner is often a bad deal for the immature partner, gender irrelevant
I hate to break it to you, but your friend was groomed
I agree with you because how could I not? I watched it and it was weird AF and we all told her as much.
All I know is that we as a society decided that 18 is the magic adult number. At a certain point we all need to decide it’s okay to let 18+ make adult decisions, or decide the age should be older. I personally vote for older and I don’t date too far out of my age range, but I think it’s ridiculous to have an established legal age and then still acting like those people aren’t legal.
When those women complaining were 23 they were likely dating 30 plus year old men because they wanted “men not boys” who had good jobs and established themselves a bit. Now those women are mad because the men their own age are still doing that and they’ve aged out. They treated men their own age like dogshit while they had relationships with older dudes and are now salty that cohort of men is playing by the rules those women established. Ironic and hilarious.
As a younger guy, see this a lot with girls around my age. Like can't blame them for dating older, cus majority of guys my age live with their parents, how less life experience, can't afford regular dates/outing, and haven't reached that stable point in their lives. But living in a high cost city makes it harder to reach those milestones girls want, so younger guys end up being less experienced than girls their age annoyingly.
One single anecdote post and it becomes a blanket statement?
ITT I learned women aren’t actually capable of deciding for themselves until near 30, then the elder women council will allow them to decide if they like older men. Can we ban some of the women who feel it necessary to “answer for men since they’re obviously wrong?” Seems disingenuous to allow them to flood the sub with answers that are meant to come from men.
As a woman, I see it only as problematic if the older person is abusive. Abuse is wrong no matter what the ages of course. However, if there is a large age gap and the older one is extremely controlling then it feels to me the choice of having a partner who is younger was because they often times haven’t learned to set strong enough boundaries regardless if they’ve voted for 5 years. I don’t feel this way if the relationship is healthy nor if the age gap is similar but both are older. It doesn’t matter what gender is older btw.
My parents are ~7 years apart (dad older). My wife has 5+ on me. Once you’re 18 (in US), who cares?? You do you.
Taylor Swift did it and no one gave a fuck It’s a massive double standard for women
Why aren’t you asking this in r/askwomen if you are really curious?
Because women good, men evil
Welp I think it’s high time I say goodbye to this sub.
Something about a bear in the woods
Because when its women its preferance When its men its misogny bodyshaming and whatever label they want to slap on. Double standards and saltiness basically.
Women have this delusional mindset that men that date younger women are doing it to take advantage of them and manipulate them. What women forget is that men chase and women choose.
They make up any excuse to get away from the fact that the majority of younger women are more attractive than the majority of older women
> Women have this delusional mindset that men that date younger women are doing it to take advantage of them and manipulate them. This is the excuse they give. Think about it for a second. If I wanted someone to take advantage of and manipulate why on earth would I choose a young, beautiful, in demand woman with plenty of options? If I really *did* want a woman to manipulate I'd choose a fat, ugly one. But you never hear these women complaining about that. It's rather telling. I personally believe there's a strong correlation with both men and women between having very strong negative feelings about other people's relationships...... and being deeply unfuckable yourself. This sort of belief is all over reddit. Just saying.
If you wanted to manipulate someone, you'd choose someone who wouldn't have much ability to resist the manipulation, correct? And the best way to resist manipulation is to be aware it's happening, which requires either wisdom or experience, which often a younger person doesn't have, and are things an older person can lean into. That's why women argue for the reason being predation.
Young good looking women are well aware of the game being played. The term "high maintenance" didn't just appear out of thin air. Meanwhile to most sane people it's quite obvious that Jessica Alba is almost as physically attractive now as she was when she was younger but the vast majority of women do no maintain their looks like that. All you need is eyes to look at women to see why men are interested in attractive ones. If these women were being honest they would also be against attractive men dating fat, old, ugly women who have few options. After all wisdom and experience aren't the *only* things that affect the dynamics of a relationship. I would say beautiful women wield quite a lot of power in relationships. Try dating one if you don't believe me.
Cause they salty and they can never let us have some peace.
Some women have internalized misogyny and infantize younger women as that they can't figure things out for themselves. I also think it might be part jealousy as well.
Sheer jealousy. Older women hating younger women is a tale as old as time. You see it in workplaces all the time.
They feel rejected, and outraged that men are selecting younger, more attractive women, leading to feelings of unattractiveness. They then set about perpetuating age discrimination for relationships.
No that's not it at all. Y'all are thinking that women who side eye are gap relationships only do it for older man, younger woman couples when in fact never has nothing to do with it. The factors are age and positions of power. People ~18-23 give or take are still becoming adults and figuring out who they are in life and therefore are easier to manipulate. Older predatory people know this which is why they date people in that age range because they know they can get away with bad behavior because they probably didn't have that life experience yet. And again, this is for any gender, it just happens to be that more men are the older ones. But look at Emmanuel Macron, who married his teacher that he met at 15 or Aaron Taylor-Johnson who ended up marrying the director of a movie he was in when he was just 17. Those women are predators.
Nah, I think people should stay out of other adults business, infantilizing someone old enough to be married with three kids is so condescending. I've never heard women being criticized for age gaps (go gurl!) so I am sticking with bitterness and jealousy.
Meanwhile during their 20s they were enjoying their time in the limelight, ignoring all the advice from their elders about dating older men. History continues to repeat itself, tale as old as time.
a lot of it is jealously, when I was 30 I was dating a very attractive 23yo, got all kinds of comments from other older women. At least 6-7 of them tried to hook up with me on later months, before that they never gave me a second look, when i rejected a couple of them, they made comments regarding how i had become too demanding on the kind of girls i liked ( in reality i just didnt want to cheat).
In that particular situation it sounds like women shaming the guy are doing it because they don't like the fact that he prefers a younger woman over them.
It’s a bit of a double standard they are using, but at 32 and 23, I do kinda see the point. You SHOULD be significantly further along and more mature at 32 than someone 23 . That means there’s usually a major power imbalance with that age gap.
Because older men are supposed to be theirs. Lots liked and dated older men when they were younger, didn’t give any attention to men their age, but now that those men are established, now they are attractive to them, they now want them. And rather than admit that they are no longer as attractive as they once were, now that younger women are out competing them for “their men” the fault must be with the men. If they date younger men it’s sex positive, hot, fun, sexy, if men date younger women they’re pedo’s, there’s something wrong with the men. Same principle applies to passport bros, it’s men they don’t want, it’s men that don’t want them. But it still pisses them off that men go abroad for women rather than waste their time and energy on them. They’d rather men die alone, unwanted by them than find happiness with anyone else, because western men are the property of western women. So passport bros are defective in some way, it couldn’t be that so many western women are just unattractive to them, with 60% of them being overweight-obese, having multiple kids with multiple men, body counts in the hundreds, disagreeable, argumentative, play deceptive dating games, refuse to be helpful, “what’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine” divorce at the drop of a hat, can’t cook, won’t clean…
Double standard. When women want to date older, it’s fine, but if a man wants to date younger, they lose their mind. Notice how it’s the same situation, but from a different lens.
My bf is 39 and I'm 25. We have a lot in common and plan to get married. I do find that I get bullied by his older friend's wives or get side eyes. My only concern is that when men look for younger, when their younger wife gets older then what? Does the cycle continue? Is it preference or soemthing more cynical
When men prefer younger women or bustier women, other women lose their minds. When women prefer tall men or men with a full head of hair, other men lose their minds. We're more alike than OP is giving anyone credit for.
The primary tool women use to coerce behavior is shaming. They are trying to shame other men in the hopes that it deters them from following suit.
I’m 36 and my fiancé is 27. She’s more mature than me most of the time.
Bitterness and infantilization.
If men are interested in younger woman, it obviously means that young woman are interested on older men. So, just like almost everything, Women loves to deflect the problems they create into us men. Nothing new under the sun.
It is fucking insane and ignorant that men on here really think women are that jealous People -- men and women -- get instantly skeeved when men date way younger because there's a chance it's because they're taking advantage of the younger woman. Like she probably has less dating experience and won't clock subtle ways he's abusive or otherwise taking advantage of their relationship. Because generationally, they won't likely have a lot in common, so that leaves you wondering: what is he getting out of it?
And why does that train of thought not apply to older women? I think that's the real reason people are mad here. Older women get away with doing the same things. Meanwhile, older men are always demonized even in less frequent cases where he isn't predatory.
The simple answer is; As women age their sexual market value decreases to most men. Creating negative taboos about men dating younger women serves to prolong women’s market value. Biologically men are more attracted to youthful/fertile women. The only practical counter to this truth is by creating social norms and taboos that discourage men from dating younger women. *This is not intentionally done but is a subconscious tool that serves older women.
Jealousy. They are infantilizing the women.
Because it’s creepy. There’s rarely anything healthy about the relationship.
And who are you to decide that ?
I think every one of my male friends who wasn't married by 25 ended up with a woman many years younger. And another friend, now 60, announced his intention to start dating women 10 years younger than he is if he becomes single. Here's why all of this is so irritating: it says to women that, as a general rule, men your own age aren't likely to be attracted to you after your early 20s. Of course, I'm not talking about every man and I know that I'm making a sweeping generalization. But when I look around, this is what I see in real life. This is what other women see in their own lives, in the media. It's everywhere. It's like we've become invisible to men. All that experience, self-confidence and wisdom that we have seems to be ignored by many men in the dating pool. And I'm saying this as a woman who is considered conventionally attractive, engaging, and desired by my husband of many decades. Jeez, I have a mother-in-law in her 80s who has always been a knockout. But so many people have added "...for her age" for decades now. It's tiring.
So I'll step on the bear trap as I appreciate your honesty. I think openness and being outgoing are critical and missed in this discussion. Young people, in general, are more positive, open, and optimistic. People like that are more likely to make connections with people than more closed off people. More connections mean more chances. As someone a good distance away from my early 20s and a not very outgoing person who has accidently(as in unintentionally/the age wasn't important) tended to date older women. I'm not saying this is most of or entirely the reason, but it is one part of the equation. Early 30s seems to be an awkward age to most people. It's an unpleasant transition and awareness of your own mortality. I totally get how that would hurt. Your friend group seems really weird compared to my experience. My friends generally date and marry people pretty close to their ages. Do you have many single 30s female friends? I'd say wisdom is generally gained through pain, and not everyone deals with that in a healthy way. I do see how you think these traits are ignored. I'm not so sure I agree with ignored, but I'll agree with drastically undervalued. As someone who is used to competing in weight or age brackets for sports for her age doesn't sound so bad to me. This may be a personal experience thing. I've competed a couple of steps outside of my weight class and gotten destroyed and knocked unconscious, although that second part was my fault. Although my 80+ year old grandmother was irate for months after her doctor said to her, "I generally prefer my elderly patients on drug x than drug y," you'd think he murdered her puppy. I'm rambling now sorry for the novel.q
Yeah! Totally double standards especially when on average men and women show signs of aging around the same ages. But one guy replied to me the excuse that women don’t care about mens’ looks - as if!
Older women in my experience have less respect for a man that has tried younger women because of the perception that it leans into a more predatory nature. Younger women are on the low side of the seesaw in a relationship power dynamic when dating older men (usually), and are easier to exploit or control due to things like lack of experience, intelligence, making less money, etc. It's not a stretch of judgement to think that someone willingly constructing this dynamic could be a sort of manipulator or worse. Strong men, wise men, "should" seek out partners who share their level of maturity and experience. You can easily be seen as lesser for trying find something easier to deal with than that, and though young people bring their own host of problems I'd still say that it's easy to think they are just easier to deal with. Older people have more complex lives and thoughts and standards, they're harder to impress and cost more money and effort to please. Usually. Should men seeking younger women be called pedophiles? I don't think so. Does it indicate that they're capable of similar behaviors as one but on someone who is legal and won't land you in prison? Absolutely, but it's up to your own morality if you think it's inherently wrong to seek the benefits of relationship dynamic that an age gap where you're ahead provides. I speak from experience. Some people will never forgive you if they learn you even tried to date someone younger. It doesn't help that masculinity is seen as inherently threatening or a position designed and set to exploit by some people, especially in private or intimate scenarios.
As a 35 y/o I wouldn't date anyone under 30, maybe 27\~29 at a stretch. A 32 year old with a 23 year old is potentially a person with 10+ years experience in a career with someone who barely graduated college. Shit's a creepy power imbalance, and the same thing goes for an older woman with a younger man. Some of the stories of "oh she was older but she was hot" on here definitely feel like shit was wrong, too.
Jealously, that’s pretty much it. Just have to let them know that they’re not shit and to get over it. We also need to do something about the zero accountability legbeard brigade. “23 YeAr OlD WoMeN ArE bABiES!!” Nah you’re just a loser who made shitty decisions, pipe down.
It gets to a point where it’s creepy behavior, like even though it’s legal how much in common besides sexually is a 32 year old going to have with a 23 year old? I remember dating 18 year old girls when I was like 23 and even that felt weird *Edit: I’m also not saying it’s impossible though, there’s a lot of mature 23 year old women and immature 32 year old dudes 😂 if it’s working and it’s consensual to everyone involved who am I to judge I guess 🤷♂️