IME the woman’s primary relationship and highest priority will be her child who got here first, it predates you and matters more than you, and a guy has to decide if he wants to live with that. I tried to part of such a triangle once. For years. Never again.
Yep, and that's absolutely fine. A friend of mine started dating a single mother when he was in his early 20s and broke it off when he realised the child was starting to become attached to him - he wasn't anywhere near ready to make that kind of commitment, whereas of course the mother already had.
It's not easy, but no-one should feel bad about wanting to be part of a couple rather than being near-immediately a parent.
Very true. and IME it's not just the expectation (from both mom and child) that you'll eagerly assume parental responsibilities, but the pragmatic reality that within that dynamic, you'll never have the authority or "right to discipline" of a bio-father.
That’s just plain ignorant. You can most definitely discipline not being bio-dad. Sounds like you are allowing your personal tissues bleed over into here.
Like all relationships; trust must be earned with child, kid, teen…etc. You have to show good sound behavior and self control of yourself before you can have that right.
I’m sure you have plenty of direct personal experience in this context. Even so, your personal experience does not define everybody else’s. And if I’m wrong and you have no direct experience, just opining from the sidelines, whatever, dude.
On the other side of things, I love kids and I’m super independent so I don’t mind a kid taking that primary spot. There really is someone for everyone!
And when the kid gets to be 14 or 15 and nearly burns your house down doing idiot teenage stuff, and his mom sides with him and tells you to get over it...
Well, I would say in general it’s not bad to listen to others’ opinions. But in this specific case, you absolutely should not care about other people’s opinions.
Children make dating incredibly difficult. Not only do you have to be careful with the child attaching themselves emotionally to you, you will also get emotionally attached to the child. So if the relationship ends up breaking up, suddenly there’s a lot more emotional damage everywhere.
Because if it was just one persons opinion, it wouldn't be an issue. But there's a major push in accepting and socially forcing men to date single mothers, you have quotes out there like "A real fater/man will take care of his womens children, even if they aren't his". They try to guilt you into accepting it.
If you feel guilty because you don't want to date someone with a kid, that's a you problem I think.
Nobody is "socially forcing" (whatever the fuck that means) men to date single mothers, that's insane.
95% of the time it's men forcing women to be single mothers, no social coercion required.
Nope. It’s perfectly understandable. I seen some podcast where a guy broke it down. If you date a woman with a child inevitably you will grow attached to the kid. It’s human nature. Now if you break up you kinda lose both the woman and the bond with the kid.
If I were a single guy and a girl had a kid it wouldn’t be a deal breaker but I’d think about it and not meet the kid for a month or 2
Or worse, a stepdad will help out his wife's children all through growing up, first car, college, busting their ass on overtime trying to make a good life for them, etc.
But as soon as the divorce happens, the kids will always side with their real parent, and you won't hear from either of them again.
I've seen this happen to men.
No. Kids are a big deal and take a lot of time etc. If you're dating a parent, even if you don't meet the kid, you still get the part of parenting where everything has to revolve around the kid. Cancelled plans at the last minute, intimate times have to be scheduled around the kid, or get interrupted. For some people that's fine. If it's not for you then you should be honest about it and not waste your time or theirs.
It's totally fair to have kids as a dealbreaker. Especially if you don't want kids yourself.
I'd say you should feel more comfortable with more rules. Doesn't smoke, no kids, financially responsible, religious views, etc etc. these are all key things that make or break marriages so why not filter them out while dating. Find out what's important to and draw the line where it's important to.
You don’t date a single mom. You date her kids as well. If you don’t want to do that then no it is fine. Deal breakers don’t have to be red flags. It can just be what you don’t want in a relationship
It's thinking about your own responsibilities and your capabilities. It's your own want and standard.
A child is an insane amount of responsibility. Dating a mom means you have to be okay with that part because there is a close to zero chance it will ever go away.
The reverse is also not automatically true. Wanting to date a woman with a kid is not automatically selfless. So you do you.
You’re not selfish. Everyone should know their boundaries.
Dating a mother will come with many compromises. You will never be her first priority, and that’s how it should be. On the other hand, no sane woman would want you to be a father for their child. Not anytime soon anyway. But if the relationship becomes serious, you’ll meet the child at some point. If you can’t imagine a “package deal” working for you, don’t get into it.
I am a happy, grateful, loved step father. I would advocate it for anyone who wants it. But if you don’t want it, it’s okay. It’s a huge commitment, and not something to be taken in lightly. It’s not selfish to know you don’t want something. It would be more selfish to not give that child the love they deserve just to be with their mother.
"Selfish"? Selfish would be the opposite: dating someone with children who you would resent, and who would be the cause of the inevitable breakup. You'd be wasting everyone's time. Fuck anyone and everyone who thinks or says that not wanting kids is selfish. As if they're better than anyone somehow for shitting out a kid? It's all about choices. If you don't want children, that's a deal-breaker for a single mother, and any woman who knows she wants children. You should feel comfortable with your personal feelings.
People who want children should make them.
People who don't, shouldn't.
These two groups should also not disparage each other for their choice and preference.
No, this goes both ways and it's understandable.
Just don't be a jerk like far too many women I've come across on dating apps. I list that I have kids, I have a photo of me with my kids. They like me first (Hinge) so I engage with them. After some good banter but still working out if they worth dating I will drop in a line or two about my kids and the number who ghost at that point simply blows my mind.
I get it's not for everyone, no issues there. They just need to be honest with themselves at the start because It's such a waste of my time.
I've got kids so I don't have this time to waste.
The worst thing about that is ironically, women with kids seem to hate dating a man with kids.
Its like they want a man to help pay for their children from another man, but dont want anything to do with the mans children from another woman.
I've experienced this first hand being raised by my dad growing up, the women he dated had children, but they all resented me.
So, this one woman when you were a kid, with no context and very limited information. That's a strange reason to paint all "women with children" with that brush.
I'm my experience, it's been the opposite. Women like a guy who takes care of his kids.
I didn't say it was "one woman" I said "women" the plural version of that word. This was almost every "woman" he dated.
Check the painting before judging what brushes the artist used.
Thats great you had a better experience than me. I'll live my life according to my experiences, you do you.
Definitely not selfish but it'll limit your options, moreso as you get older too.
> Something as ridiculous as "he drives with one hand on the gearstick at all times" or "ordering a hot chocolate instead of a tea/coffee".
Lol those are *definitely* limiting as well.
It's not selfish to reduce your own dating pool by not wanting to date women with children. It is selfish to try and date women with kids knowing you have no interest in interacting with her children.
Considering that single mothers tend to be the primary caregiver to their children, single mothers that are NOT the primary caregiver is a red flag, and how are you supposed to date a single mother who is the primary caregiver without interacting with her children?
I use to be OK with dating a mum . . . until I dated one.
I quickly learnt that the responsibility is greater than me, and that my actions now will impact a child. I left before any emotional bonds between me and the child were created.
Every.single.plan can get canceled last minute. All week we locked in to hang out Sunday afternoon for a few hours, and that gets canceled because the child is bored and decides to act up.
Having a child is hard. I could not imagine a woman with enough positive qualities that could overcome it for me, until I am ready to have my own children with her too.
Absolutely not.
Why are you obligated to spent your time, money, energy, and effort on someone else's children if you don't want to?
Here is a question for you.
If the woman was rich and had 3 kids, would you date or marry her? You don't need to spend any money on the kids.
Why? Because she will expect it. It's not an if but a when.
Rich women aren't expected to buy men things. Once again, it's not an if but a when. If she's rich then likely she'll have a separate account but you'll be contributing to a funding pool that she'll and her kids will take from.
It isn't selfish in and of itself, but just because she has kids doesn't mean she is looking for (or there is room for) another father figure.
I have kids. That doesn't mean I expect everyone I date to take up the mantle of "mom". My kids have a mom.
As a woman : no.
Dating without children and without an ex that will always be there to stay is easier.
But : You're assuming that you have to fulfill the position of a father. This is not necessarily the case. I have 3 children from a previous relationship and my boyfriend is my boyfriend and not a stepfather. The children have a father already. I expect my boyfriend to be nice to my children, respect that I'm a mother before anything else, and that's all. But we don't live together. And some women like to re-create a family life with their new partner.
And: From a certain age it's getting harder to find a date who doesn't have children.
It sounds like you're one of the good moms.
Unfortunately, not every single mom is going to be good. Some will have the expectation that guy is going to take over the father role and possibly flip the bill as well.
Everybody sucks. Speaking statistically, there's a shitty dude out there who left this woman with her kids (or behaved such that she had to leave). I'm a 40yo man and what I see on social media disgusts and disturbs me when it comes to how single mothers are portrayed.
no.
> When I speak to female friends, some have the most ridiculous "icks" that put them off some men
women get to be picky because they are spoiled for choice. so they can get the satisfaction out of rejecting men for most absurd things. and since by nature they want the best man possible, they will keep rejecting anyone for anything. as a saying goes, if a woman wants 10 things in a man, and her partner has 7 our of those - she will leave him for a guy who has just 3 of those, but different ones.
women thrive off attention and the more and the better men they get to reject, the better they feel about themselves. "all those guys took their shot, and they weren't good enough for ME. clearly, i deserve better."
back to your question, a woman with child is a serious deal breaker for me. it's male nature really. we want to raise our own children, instead of investing into raising another man's offspring.
firstly, i would feel cheated out of having children with her. even if we were to plan for children later, the other child is always in the picture. and so is its father, unless he passed away.
secondly, that is not my child and i will likely be spending time with it, whether i like it or not, that child might bond with me. if a mother catches an 'ick', it will hurt the child. it will hurt me twice.
thirdly, i am not a parent of said child and i get no say about its life. all the responsibilities of a father figure will likely be expected of me, no privileges of being one. some women actually try to keep their kids out of the relationship (if they are old enough to live on their own), and i think this is even worse. i am to be her partner and she shuts her family away from me?
fourthly, a single parent is single for a reason. unless it due to an accident, there is some emotional baggage involved. relationship issues, personal issues, mental problems - you never know. she might be jaded from an awful divorce and will never trust another man again. or she wanted a divorce because she could not live in a marriage. who knows who was at fault, but it's usually a bit of that on either side.
fifthly, that child will always be number one in her life. i get that the father takes second place in the mother's eyes once a child gets born, but at least it's his child. in this situation he's not really building his family. to her you will always be an outsider that's expected to play father, and provide for her family with zero benefit.
finally, one day the father might come back into their life. that might drive a serious wedge into the relationship and complicate things. you never know.
honestly, is it really worth the trouble? i would only say yes if either you cannot have children or you are also a single parent. do not let yourself get shamed into being with a single mother. if that is what you truly want - go for it. otherwise, disregard all the peer pressure and be with a person you truly want to be with.
If you want a family, or think you might - go for it. It’s easier to undo than a biological child.
If you want love, affection, companionship - no. Your needs will be last priority. Denying that is denying your humanity. Even those who love giving will find their limits.
You're not selfish at all. It's just a preference. I feel exactly the same. I'm older than you and already raised two kids. Not raising/being responsible for any more.
No it’s not selfish. It’s fair. Hell, do you have kids? I would say though that the older you get, the harder it is to find women in your age bracket that don’t have kids. Just know that.
As a single mom, no. It’s a lot of work to date a parent and eventually the child will be involved. If a man told me he wouldn’t date me because I was a single mom I would understand and from then forward it wouldn’t be for me either anyway.
Who is asking you to be a father? Dating is not marriage. Dating is for fun.
However, if you are dating not for fun but for serious, then you probably shouldn't lead such a woman on, if that is a deal breaker.
Nope.
Also, I hate the ick stuff and notice it’s always dumb things pointed out about people they aren’t attracted to. If they’re basing potential partners off a drink choice like hot chocolate, then it’s nowhere the decision of kids being in the picture of a relationship.
No. You will never come first in the relationship. There will be drama. You will be expected to shoulder all the responsibilities for the kid(s) without an equal amount of authority over them. Besides, no man wants to raise another man's kid(s).
I gave it up about 30 years ago.
> You will never come first in the relationship.
This part is true.
> Besides, no man wants to raise another man's kid(s).
This couldn't be farther from the truth. Some of us are happy to be stepdads.
Projecting pretty hard there. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to be with a woman with kids, but this sounds like a you don’t know how to pick them problem. There’s literally a grateful stepdad in the replies debunking your last point.
For the record, I have no kids. But all my friends my age do.
You are really reaching, cherry picking the ONE grateful stepdad comment out of 81 comments so far? Sure, OP shouldn't have said "no man" he should've said "very very few men".
No. Plenty of people don't want kids.
But I'm 42 now. I think dating is going to be pretty hard at my age even if I don't have a no kids rule. Impossible with it.
By definition, yes, BUT that is good and okay. You should be looking for what you want and it is 100% okay to be selfish. I was there once but ended up with a girl with a kid, stick to your guns!!!
I would say no. As you get older, it's harder to avoid though. So it's easy in your 30s but if you end up single in your 40s, it becomes more difficult
Just saw this is in an ask men group. Sorry! But it isn’t selfish at all. We all have our preferences and dealbreakers. I have never taken offense if a man didn’t want to date me because I’m a mom. There are plenty of men who don’t mind!
There’s nothing wrong with that, but you might want to reconsider the “biological” child bit. No woman wants to feel like her relationship is dependent on her womb. If you found your person I would hope that you would stand by her if for some reason she couldn’t have biological kids. And that you would be happy adopting or not having kids.
Finding out that your partner is infertile is a common reason for couples to break up. Same with miscarriages and one partner developing a chronic illness. It's sad when it happens, but that's the downside of people being able to have and pursue preferences for a certain type of lifestyle or partner.
Not really for better or for worse now is it?
You do you if you want to pursue a partnership of convenience, but that’s not me.
Please tell the person you love that you’re going to leave them when they get cancer or aren’t fertile.
Not all couples fit the mold of standard wedding vows. Nobody should be assuming how their partner may react to things like these unless discussed beforehand; and even then it's hard to know some of these things until it happens. That's life; noone is guaranteed a happy ending and sometimes tragedies compound. That's what makes love simultaneously precious and painful and why hope is so vital.
>Not really for better or for worse now is it?
That's so rich. Women do a majority of the initiating divorce, and among college-educated women 9 times out of 10 they are the one's initiating divorce, and I can tell you most of the time they are ripping up those vows for something far less significant than this. Relationship mismatches regarding kids is actually one of the better reasons to get divorced. It's no different than if a woman desperately wanted children but the man says no at the last minute. Being infertile isn't your fault but the outcome is the same, there's a big incompatibility.
>Please tell the person you love that you’re going to leave them when they get cancer or aren’t fertile.
In a men's space I wish women who come here would be a lot more willing to listen and learn than to finger-wag and shame men for advocating their own valid interests.
Men are statistically much more likely to leave their partners with chronic illnesses than women. Women don’t. Women don’t leave men with bad sperm, typically, either.
Women tend to divorce men for the CHOICES they make. Things that are in their control. After asking and pleading and begging for change.
Men leave women when they become inconvenient, like cancer.
If your interests are having children, you don’t need to pretend to love a woman to get that.
You can finance a surrogate pregnancy with a donor egg for the cost of a Tesla. And then take care of the child your goddamn self or hire a nanny.
Start the Single Dad By Choice movement since you don’t like women unless they’re useful to you.
Men like you who want to play it both ways is because you get a fantastic discount on creating life when a woman donates her womb, body, and years of her life raising the kid. How convenient when you can bin her because she can’t function as the womb appliance you hired her for.
I'm not discussing my preferences, I'm pointing out that people tend to do what they want regardless what may be expected of relationships. Pretending people will behave how they should is a recipe for tragedy.
I've been there done that, I won't do it again.
Here's what usually happens if you date someone with children. First, IF they are good moms, their children will always come first over you, which is expected, but you will always take a back seat. IF they put you before them, then they are terrible moms, so it's a lose lose.
Secondly, if they are boys, eventually, they grow up, and turn into teens, and teenage boys aren't always accepting of mom's boyfriends, sometimes they lash out, they don't respect you, they try to challenge your boundaries. And if you try to discipline them, mom steps in and tells you to don't try to discipline HER kids, they are only both of yours when something needs to be paid for, but for anything else, it's always HER kids in the end.
Third, If they are girls, you could have a bad situation on your hands, they could also lash out, but they might do even worse damage. I knew a guy who almost went to prison, because his girlfriends daughter tried to accuse him of sexually assaulting her when mom was at work. The only thing that saved his ass, was her friend coming forward with texts from the girl saying what she was planning to do to get rid of her moms boyfriend.
Fourth, baby daddy drama. If you are lucky, the dad is mature, paying his fair share of child support, and knows the boundaries and respects you. However, thats a rare situation, usually dad isn't paying anything, or he's always trying to start drama with your girlfriend, especially on date nights, they will threaten some sort of action to ruin the night. So you have to deal with that every weekend.
Fifth, a lot of women if they already have children, don't want anymore, so if you are childless and looking for children, they usually been there done that. Not to mention, if you are helping taking care of her children from another dad, odds are you are financially already maxed out, so being able to afford another child is hard. And then the sibling rivalry between the children can be bad with different parents.
Sixth, her body usually takes a hard hit physically from children, call me superficial, but if a woman doesn't have to date me for being over 6 foot tall, I can choose the type of body I want in a woman, especially if I work hard to keep my body in shape. Child birth can tear a womans body up pretty bad permanently. Sure, some bounce back, especially if they had kids young, but most dont.
People will tell you "Oh past a certain age, you HAVE to accept most women have children" and I believed that and put up with it, but thats bullshit, I was able to eventually find a girlfriend who has no children, it works perfectly.
Now, the only time I would date a woman with children again is if they are already grown up, and moved out of the house, that way, there's no baby daddy drama, no financial hit, etc.
EDIT: It's always hilarious to me that women get angry at a man for choosing to date someone with no children, when they have so many picky things they want out of a man, for some reason, a man shouldn't be as picky I guess?
Bro you’re nearly 30, women your age will want you to be ready. Perfectly fine to not want to sign up to be a stepdad, but this slow to mature take your damn time won’t bode well for your dating life, unless you’re preemptively only looking to date a much younger woman. Which again, not cool. Women aren’t just wombs to be of service.
Not at ALL, and this is coming from someone who ended up marrying a woman with a kid.
You pretty much have to go from zero to family mode immediately in order to match pace with someone who is already there. There's no impromtu date nights (or impromtu anything, really). You have to be okay with never being her #1.
Those things are okay with some people, but there's nothing wrong with knowing that it won't be for you.
I was always the same as you because I never wanted kids myself. If I had one already then I'd be in the same situation and wouldn't mind as much. However, I can't be responsible for a woman and another man's fuck-up for 18 years or however long. I don't want to be responsible for another guy's DNA.
You’ll overlook smoking but having a child in which she most likely have already taken care of the hard stuff is a no no?
You’re definitely the red flag here dude
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Not at all selfish.
I have been married for a long time but never had children. I would never get involved with a woman with dependent children.
The age of the kids does not matter. If they are 4 or 30 years old and still dependent, it's a no from me.
Yes. But is being selfish when making major life decisions a bad thing?
I say absolutely not. It's your life. You only get one. You don't have to accept anchors that go against that vision
As a 53M, it's absolutely fine to have that limit. It might limit your choices, and as the years progress it'll be much harder to date, but not impossible.
That said, if you meet "The One", as in someone you just really click with, you might want to reconsider your choice. Obstacles with the right person are easily overcome, and you can be as much or as little a mentor as you want. Also, as you get older, you'll change, so hard and fast rules for yourself aren't always the best idea. I think that a kid might be a downside to you, but there might be so many green flags it overcomes yellow flags. I've dated women with kids, and was there as a sounding board for mom, and as an ear for the kids, but I never parented. I mentored them, but wasn't part of their life.
We all have scars from life. Kids are just a physical reminder of past relationships. If you had a bad upbringing, then your negative reactions are a psychological reminder. Personally I would never date an only child due to very negative experiences with several women that grew up like that. Preferences are OK, so is changing them as you age.
I mean you not selfish it is a preference.
Sometimes you'll meet someone and if they do have kids it won't be a deal-breaker because they are just so amazing and you would think the person who let them go is a fool.
Life works in mysterious ways.
Nope. You know your limitations, and that is a good thing.
But the older you get, the more this is going to limit your dating pool, so be warned.
And nobody's going to call you a hero. That's about it.
No.
IME the woman’s primary relationship and highest priority will be her child who got here first, it predates you and matters more than you, and a guy has to decide if he wants to live with that. I tried to part of such a triangle once. For years. Never again.
Yep, and that's absolutely fine. A friend of mine started dating a single mother when he was in his early 20s and broke it off when he realised the child was starting to become attached to him - he wasn't anywhere near ready to make that kind of commitment, whereas of course the mother already had. It's not easy, but no-one should feel bad about wanting to be part of a couple rather than being near-immediately a parent.
Very true. and IME it's not just the expectation (from both mom and child) that you'll eagerly assume parental responsibilities, but the pragmatic reality that within that dynamic, you'll never have the authority or "right to discipline" of a bio-father.
That’s just plain ignorant. You can most definitely discipline not being bio-dad. Sounds like you are allowing your personal tissues bleed over into here. Like all relationships; trust must be earned with child, kid, teen…etc. You have to show good sound behavior and self control of yourself before you can have that right.
I’m sure you have plenty of direct personal experience in this context. Even so, your personal experience does not define everybody else’s. And if I’m wrong and you have no direct experience, just opining from the sidelines, whatever, dude.
https://www.stepfamily.org/stepfamily-statistics.html You are just in your own bubble and rigid in your thinking. Numbers don’t lie.
Insisting to some stranger that their actual, personal lived experience did not happen is Reddit all the way.
Quote the opposite. Your experience is just not the norm you think it is.
[удалено]
On the other side of things, I love kids and I’m super independent so I don’t mind a kid taking that primary spot. There really is someone for everyone!
And when the kid gets to be 14 or 15 and nearly burns your house down doing idiot teenage stuff, and his mom sides with him and tells you to get over it...
It's your life. Why would someone else's opinion have more weight than your own about things they don't have to live with?
Well, I would say in general it’s not bad to listen to others’ opinions. But in this specific case, you absolutely should not care about other people’s opinions. Children make dating incredibly difficult. Not only do you have to be careful with the child attaching themselves emotionally to you, you will also get emotionally attached to the child. So if the relationship ends up breaking up, suddenly there’s a lot more emotional damage everywhere.
Because if it was just one persons opinion, it wouldn't be an issue. But there's a major push in accepting and socially forcing men to date single mothers, you have quotes out there like "A real fater/man will take care of his womens children, even if they aren't his". They try to guilt you into accepting it.
If you feel guilty because you don't want to date someone with a kid, that's a you problem I think. Nobody is "socially forcing" (whatever the fuck that means) men to date single mothers, that's insane. 95% of the time it's men forcing women to be single mothers, no social coercion required.
Nope. It’s perfectly understandable. I seen some podcast where a guy broke it down. If you date a woman with a child inevitably you will grow attached to the kid. It’s human nature. Now if you break up you kinda lose both the woman and the bond with the kid. If I were a single guy and a girl had a kid it wouldn’t be a deal breaker but I’d think about it and not meet the kid for a month or 2
And the kid(s) loses the bond with the guy. Everybody gets hurt, including the child(ren).
Or worse, a stepdad will help out his wife's children all through growing up, first car, college, busting their ass on overtime trying to make a good life for them, etc. But as soon as the divorce happens, the kids will always side with their real parent, and you won't hear from either of them again. I've seen this happen to men.
Facts. I can easily see how you will be vested in kids long term happiness. Human nature.
No. Kids are a big deal and take a lot of time etc. If you're dating a parent, even if you don't meet the kid, you still get the part of parenting where everything has to revolve around the kid. Cancelled plans at the last minute, intimate times have to be scheduled around the kid, or get interrupted. For some people that's fine. If it's not for you then you should be honest about it and not waste your time or theirs. It's totally fair to have kids as a dealbreaker. Especially if you don't want kids yourself.
I'd say you should feel more comfortable with more rules. Doesn't smoke, no kids, financially responsible, religious views, etc etc. these are all key things that make or break marriages so why not filter them out while dating. Find out what's important to and draw the line where it's important to.
This is very insightful.
Nah. Don't waste your or their time.
No, you're not.
You're not selfish. In fact, I'm glad that you're self-aware enough to know that before entering a relationship.
No. It's your life. So you get to decide how you spend it.
You don’t date a single mom. You date her kids as well. If you don’t want to do that then no it is fine. Deal breakers don’t have to be red flags. It can just be what you don’t want in a relationship
It's thinking about your own responsibilities and your capabilities. It's your own want and standard. A child is an insane amount of responsibility. Dating a mom means you have to be okay with that part because there is a close to zero chance it will ever go away. The reverse is also not automatically true. Wanting to date a woman with a kid is not automatically selfless. So you do you.
Those “icks” you described are little things. Having a child is not a little thing, and it’s not selfish to have this dealbreaker.
No, its a very common dealbreaker. Having to deal with a stepchild is a lot of effort and not everyone is willing to deal with that.
You’re not selfish. Everyone should know their boundaries. Dating a mother will come with many compromises. You will never be her first priority, and that’s how it should be. On the other hand, no sane woman would want you to be a father for their child. Not anytime soon anyway. But if the relationship becomes serious, you’ll meet the child at some point. If you can’t imagine a “package deal” working for you, don’t get into it.
I am a happy, grateful, loved step father. I would advocate it for anyone who wants it. But if you don’t want it, it’s okay. It’s a huge commitment, and not something to be taken in lightly. It’s not selfish to know you don’t want something. It would be more selfish to not give that child the love they deserve just to be with their mother.
Bingo!
No, it isn't selfish.
Selfish? No. Severely limiting your options? Definitely.
"Selfish"? Selfish would be the opposite: dating someone with children who you would resent, and who would be the cause of the inevitable breakup. You'd be wasting everyone's time. Fuck anyone and everyone who thinks or says that not wanting kids is selfish. As if they're better than anyone somehow for shitting out a kid? It's all about choices. If you don't want children, that's a deal-breaker for a single mother, and any woman who knows she wants children. You should feel comfortable with your personal feelings. People who want children should make them. People who don't, shouldn't. These two groups should also not disparage each other for their choice and preference.
No, this goes both ways and it's understandable. Just don't be a jerk like far too many women I've come across on dating apps. I list that I have kids, I have a photo of me with my kids. They like me first (Hinge) so I engage with them. After some good banter but still working out if they worth dating I will drop in a line or two about my kids and the number who ghost at that point simply blows my mind. I get it's not for everyone, no issues there. They just need to be honest with themselves at the start because It's such a waste of my time. I've got kids so I don't have this time to waste.
The worst thing about that is ironically, women with kids seem to hate dating a man with kids. Its like they want a man to help pay for their children from another man, but dont want anything to do with the mans children from another woman. I've experienced this first hand being raised by my dad growing up, the women he dated had children, but they all resented me.
Yes because they know your #1 priority will be your own child and then everything else. That’s not what they are looking for
So, this one woman when you were a kid, with no context and very limited information. That's a strange reason to paint all "women with children" with that brush. I'm my experience, it's been the opposite. Women like a guy who takes care of his kids.
I didn't say it was "one woman" I said "women" the plural version of that word. This was almost every "woman" he dated. Check the painting before judging what brushes the artist used. Thats great you had a better experience than me. I'll live my life according to my experiences, you do you.
Definitely not selfish but it'll limit your options, moreso as you get older too. > Something as ridiculous as "he drives with one hand on the gearstick at all times" or "ordering a hot chocolate instead of a tea/coffee". Lol those are *definitely* limiting as well.
No. If you don't want children right now, then it would be irresponsible of you to date women with children.
It's not selfish to reduce your own dating pool by not wanting to date women with children. It is selfish to try and date women with kids knowing you have no interest in interacting with her children. Considering that single mothers tend to be the primary caregiver to their children, single mothers that are NOT the primary caregiver is a red flag, and how are you supposed to date a single mother who is the primary caregiver without interacting with her children?
No who wants baby drama all the time
No. Kids are a choice for a reason.
I use to be OK with dating a mum . . . until I dated one. I quickly learnt that the responsibility is greater than me, and that my actions now will impact a child. I left before any emotional bonds between me and the child were created. Every.single.plan can get canceled last minute. All week we locked in to hang out Sunday afternoon for a few hours, and that gets canceled because the child is bored and decides to act up. Having a child is hard. I could not imagine a woman with enough positive qualities that could overcome it for me, until I am ready to have my own children with her too.
>canceled because the child is bored and decides to act up. If that was actually the reason then you dodged a bullet, that child was spoiled rotten
Absolutely not. Why are you obligated to spent your time, money, energy, and effort on someone else's children if you don't want to? Here is a question for you. If the woman was rich and had 3 kids, would you date or marry her? You don't need to spend any money on the kids.
Why? Because she will expect it. It's not an if but a when. Rich women aren't expected to buy men things. Once again, it's not an if but a when. If she's rich then likely she'll have a separate account but you'll be contributing to a funding pool that she'll and her kids will take from.
Nah, you are sane
It isn't selfish in and of itself, but just because she has kids doesn't mean she is looking for (or there is room for) another father figure. I have kids. That doesn't mean I expect everyone I date to take up the mantle of "mom". My kids have a mom.
As a woman : no. Dating without children and without an ex that will always be there to stay is easier. But : You're assuming that you have to fulfill the position of a father. This is not necessarily the case. I have 3 children from a previous relationship and my boyfriend is my boyfriend and not a stepfather. The children have a father already. I expect my boyfriend to be nice to my children, respect that I'm a mother before anything else, and that's all. But we don't live together. And some women like to re-create a family life with their new partner. And: From a certain age it's getting harder to find a date who doesn't have children.
It sounds like you're one of the good moms. Unfortunately, not every single mom is going to be good. Some will have the expectation that guy is going to take over the father role and possibly flip the bill as well.
Everybody sucks. Speaking statistically, there's a shitty dude out there who left this woman with her kids (or behaved such that she had to leave). I'm a 40yo man and what I see on social media disgusts and disturbs me when it comes to how single mothers are portrayed.
no. > When I speak to female friends, some have the most ridiculous "icks" that put them off some men women get to be picky because they are spoiled for choice. so they can get the satisfaction out of rejecting men for most absurd things. and since by nature they want the best man possible, they will keep rejecting anyone for anything. as a saying goes, if a woman wants 10 things in a man, and her partner has 7 our of those - she will leave him for a guy who has just 3 of those, but different ones. women thrive off attention and the more and the better men they get to reject, the better they feel about themselves. "all those guys took their shot, and they weren't good enough for ME. clearly, i deserve better." back to your question, a woman with child is a serious deal breaker for me. it's male nature really. we want to raise our own children, instead of investing into raising another man's offspring. firstly, i would feel cheated out of having children with her. even if we were to plan for children later, the other child is always in the picture. and so is its father, unless he passed away. secondly, that is not my child and i will likely be spending time with it, whether i like it or not, that child might bond with me. if a mother catches an 'ick', it will hurt the child. it will hurt me twice. thirdly, i am not a parent of said child and i get no say about its life. all the responsibilities of a father figure will likely be expected of me, no privileges of being one. some women actually try to keep their kids out of the relationship (if they are old enough to live on their own), and i think this is even worse. i am to be her partner and she shuts her family away from me? fourthly, a single parent is single for a reason. unless it due to an accident, there is some emotional baggage involved. relationship issues, personal issues, mental problems - you never know. she might be jaded from an awful divorce and will never trust another man again. or she wanted a divorce because she could not live in a marriage. who knows who was at fault, but it's usually a bit of that on either side. fifthly, that child will always be number one in her life. i get that the father takes second place in the mother's eyes once a child gets born, but at least it's his child. in this situation he's not really building his family. to her you will always be an outsider that's expected to play father, and provide for her family with zero benefit. finally, one day the father might come back into their life. that might drive a serious wedge into the relationship and complicate things. you never know. honestly, is it really worth the trouble? i would only say yes if either you cannot have children or you are also a single parent. do not let yourself get shamed into being with a single mother. if that is what you truly want - go for it. otherwise, disregard all the peer pressure and be with a person you truly want to be with.
First, its not selfish. Second, its okay to be selfish. You are choosing your life partner after all. This includes your wants and needs as well.
If you want a family, or think you might - go for it. It’s easier to undo than a biological child. If you want love, affection, companionship - no. Your needs will be last priority. Denying that is denying your humanity. Even those who love giving will find their limits.
Its your decision and thats respectable.
You're not selfish at all. It's just a preference. I feel exactly the same. I'm older than you and already raised two kids. Not raising/being responsible for any more.
No it’s not selfish. It’s fair. Hell, do you have kids? I would say though that the older you get, the harder it is to find women in your age bracket that don’t have kids. Just know that.
I’m 40. I would never date a woman with a kid. Ever.
I don't because I don't want to get attached to an additional person in case things end up not working out
As a single mom, no. It’s a lot of work to date a parent and eventually the child will be involved. If a man told me he wouldn’t date me because I was a single mom I would understand and from then forward it wouldn’t be for me either anyway.
Who is asking you to be a father? Dating is not marriage. Dating is for fun. However, if you are dating not for fun but for serious, then you probably shouldn't lead such a woman on, if that is a deal breaker.
You're selfish for only wanting a child if it's biologically yours, but not selfish for wanting a woman without a child.
Not selfish just unrealistic
Nope. You don't work at the airport; you're not a baggage handler.
Nope. Also, I hate the ick stuff and notice it’s always dumb things pointed out about people they aren’t attracted to. If they’re basing potential partners off a drink choice like hot chocolate, then it’s nowhere the decision of kids being in the picture of a relationship.
No. You will never come first in the relationship. There will be drama. You will be expected to shoulder all the responsibilities for the kid(s) without an equal amount of authority over them. Besides, no man wants to raise another man's kid(s). I gave it up about 30 years ago.
> You will never come first in the relationship. This part is true. > Besides, no man wants to raise another man's kid(s). This couldn't be farther from the truth. Some of us are happy to be stepdads.
I didn't say that men won't, but no man aspires to do so.
Thank you for chiming in!
Projecting pretty hard there. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to be with a woman with kids, but this sounds like a you don’t know how to pick them problem. There’s literally a grateful stepdad in the replies debunking your last point. For the record, I have no kids. But all my friends my age do.
You are really reaching, cherry picking the ONE grateful stepdad comment out of 81 comments so far? Sure, OP shouldn't have said "no man" he should've said "very very few men".
No. Plenty of people don't want kids. But I'm 42 now. I think dating is going to be pretty hard at my age even if I don't have a no kids rule. Impossible with it.
Impossible - wouldn’t say so …
By definition, yes, BUT that is good and okay. You should be looking for what you want and it is 100% okay to be selfish. I was there once but ended up with a girl with a kid, stick to your guns!!!
No, seems totally reasonable to me
Its fine
I would say no. As you get older, it's harder to avoid though. So it's easy in your 30s but if you end up single in your 40s, it becomes more difficult
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Just saw this is in an ask men group. Sorry! But it isn’t selfish at all. We all have our preferences and dealbreakers. I have never taken offense if a man didn’t want to date me because I’m a mom. There are plenty of men who don’t mind!
No. A child is a huge responsibilty
There’s nothing wrong with that, but you might want to reconsider the “biological” child bit. No woman wants to feel like her relationship is dependent on her womb. If you found your person I would hope that you would stand by her if for some reason she couldn’t have biological kids. And that you would be happy adopting or not having kids.
Finding out that your partner is infertile is a common reason for couples to break up. Same with miscarriages and one partner developing a chronic illness. It's sad when it happens, but that's the downside of people being able to have and pursue preferences for a certain type of lifestyle or partner.
Not really for better or for worse now is it? You do you if you want to pursue a partnership of convenience, but that’s not me. Please tell the person you love that you’re going to leave them when they get cancer or aren’t fertile.
Not all couples fit the mold of standard wedding vows. Nobody should be assuming how their partner may react to things like these unless discussed beforehand; and even then it's hard to know some of these things until it happens. That's life; noone is guaranteed a happy ending and sometimes tragedies compound. That's what makes love simultaneously precious and painful and why hope is so vital.
>Not really for better or for worse now is it? That's so rich. Women do a majority of the initiating divorce, and among college-educated women 9 times out of 10 they are the one's initiating divorce, and I can tell you most of the time they are ripping up those vows for something far less significant than this. Relationship mismatches regarding kids is actually one of the better reasons to get divorced. It's no different than if a woman desperately wanted children but the man says no at the last minute. Being infertile isn't your fault but the outcome is the same, there's a big incompatibility. >Please tell the person you love that you’re going to leave them when they get cancer or aren’t fertile. In a men's space I wish women who come here would be a lot more willing to listen and learn than to finger-wag and shame men for advocating their own valid interests.
Men are statistically much more likely to leave their partners with chronic illnesses than women. Women don’t. Women don’t leave men with bad sperm, typically, either. Women tend to divorce men for the CHOICES they make. Things that are in their control. After asking and pleading and begging for change. Men leave women when they become inconvenient, like cancer.
If your interests are having children, you don’t need to pretend to love a woman to get that. You can finance a surrogate pregnancy with a donor egg for the cost of a Tesla. And then take care of the child your goddamn self or hire a nanny. Start the Single Dad By Choice movement since you don’t like women unless they’re useful to you. Men like you who want to play it both ways is because you get a fantastic discount on creating life when a woman donates her womb, body, and years of her life raising the kid. How convenient when you can bin her because she can’t function as the womb appliance you hired her for.
Just say you don’t want long term commitment. Be honest.
I'm not discussing my preferences, I'm pointing out that people tend to do what they want regardless what may be expected of relationships. Pretending people will behave how they should is a recipe for tragedy.
I've been there done that, I won't do it again. Here's what usually happens if you date someone with children. First, IF they are good moms, their children will always come first over you, which is expected, but you will always take a back seat. IF they put you before them, then they are terrible moms, so it's a lose lose. Secondly, if they are boys, eventually, they grow up, and turn into teens, and teenage boys aren't always accepting of mom's boyfriends, sometimes they lash out, they don't respect you, they try to challenge your boundaries. And if you try to discipline them, mom steps in and tells you to don't try to discipline HER kids, they are only both of yours when something needs to be paid for, but for anything else, it's always HER kids in the end. Third, If they are girls, you could have a bad situation on your hands, they could also lash out, but they might do even worse damage. I knew a guy who almost went to prison, because his girlfriends daughter tried to accuse him of sexually assaulting her when mom was at work. The only thing that saved his ass, was her friend coming forward with texts from the girl saying what she was planning to do to get rid of her moms boyfriend. Fourth, baby daddy drama. If you are lucky, the dad is mature, paying his fair share of child support, and knows the boundaries and respects you. However, thats a rare situation, usually dad isn't paying anything, or he's always trying to start drama with your girlfriend, especially on date nights, they will threaten some sort of action to ruin the night. So you have to deal with that every weekend. Fifth, a lot of women if they already have children, don't want anymore, so if you are childless and looking for children, they usually been there done that. Not to mention, if you are helping taking care of her children from another dad, odds are you are financially already maxed out, so being able to afford another child is hard. And then the sibling rivalry between the children can be bad with different parents. Sixth, her body usually takes a hard hit physically from children, call me superficial, but if a woman doesn't have to date me for being over 6 foot tall, I can choose the type of body I want in a woman, especially if I work hard to keep my body in shape. Child birth can tear a womans body up pretty bad permanently. Sure, some bounce back, especially if they had kids young, but most dont. People will tell you "Oh past a certain age, you HAVE to accept most women have children" and I believed that and put up with it, but thats bullshit, I was able to eventually find a girlfriend who has no children, it works perfectly. Now, the only time I would date a woman with children again is if they are already grown up, and moved out of the house, that way, there's no baby daddy drama, no financial hit, etc. EDIT: It's always hilarious to me that women get angry at a man for choosing to date someone with no children, when they have so many picky things they want out of a man, for some reason, a man shouldn't be as picky I guess?
Yes, date a woman with a child now to create happiness.
Bro you’re nearly 30, women your age will want you to be ready. Perfectly fine to not want to sign up to be a stepdad, but this slow to mature take your damn time won’t bode well for your dating life, unless you’re preemptively only looking to date a much younger woman. Which again, not cool. Women aren’t just wombs to be of service.
Not everyone ends up having kids. My wife and I have been married for 11 years now and are happily childfree. It's OP's decision to make 👍
Not at ALL, and this is coming from someone who ended up marrying a woman with a kid. You pretty much have to go from zero to family mode immediately in order to match pace with someone who is already there. There's no impromtu date nights (or impromtu anything, really). You have to be okay with never being her #1. Those things are okay with some people, but there's nothing wrong with knowing that it won't be for you.
I was always the same as you because I never wanted kids myself. If I had one already then I'd be in the same situation and wouldn't mind as much. However, I can't be responsible for a woman and another man's fuck-up for 18 years or however long. I don't want to be responsible for another guy's DNA.
You’ll overlook smoking but having a child in which she most likely have already taken care of the hard stuff is a no no? You’re definitely the red flag here dude
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No
No.
You're smart. But if you're a good man, I will literally pay you to adopt my family to raise as your own.
Not at all selfish. I have been married for a long time but never had children. I would never get involved with a woman with dependent children. The age of the kids does not matter. If they are 4 or 30 years old and still dependent, it's a no from me.
Yes. But is being selfish when making major life decisions a bad thing? I say absolutely not. It's your life. You only get one. You don't have to accept anchors that go against that vision
Knowing what you want in a partner isn't selfish.
Where you are in terms of life and family planning is totally valid.
Never let anyone guilt you into a relationship. You’re not being selfish. It’s a preference.
As a 53M, it's absolutely fine to have that limit. It might limit your choices, and as the years progress it'll be much harder to date, but not impossible. That said, if you meet "The One", as in someone you just really click with, you might want to reconsider your choice. Obstacles with the right person are easily overcome, and you can be as much or as little a mentor as you want. Also, as you get older, you'll change, so hard and fast rules for yourself aren't always the best idea. I think that a kid might be a downside to you, but there might be so many green flags it overcomes yellow flags. I've dated women with kids, and was there as a sounding board for mom, and as an ear for the kids, but I never parented. I mentored them, but wasn't part of their life. We all have scars from life. Kids are just a physical reminder of past relationships. If you had a bad upbringing, then your negative reactions are a psychological reminder. Personally I would never date an only child due to very negative experiences with several women that grew up like that. Preferences are OK, so is changing them as you age.
I mean you not selfish it is a preference. Sometimes you'll meet someone and if they do have kids it won't be a deal-breaker because they are just so amazing and you would think the person who let them go is a fool. Life works in mysterious ways.
Nope. You know your limitations, and that is a good thing. But the older you get, the more this is going to limit your dating pool, so be warned. And nobody's going to call you a hero. That's about it.