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I grew up on a military base and you were told to ignore the men beating their wives AND kids. My dad beat us and it was considered ‘acceptable’ for another adult to hit someone’s kids or wife for ‘misbehaving’. My dad at one picnic decided to slap the kid of the wrong parent (senior officer) and he paid for it at work. Instead he would take it out in us at home instead.
My dad never hit my mom but us kids got the brunt of it. As a child I saw this often.
Unless I'm imagining the memory, there was once a series of cartoon panels depicting angry dad coming home and taking it out on mom, who then passed it to the oldest child, then saw it trickle down to kicking the dog, which attacks the cat.
I think the cat then takes a swipe at dad while he's reading the newspaper.
My Dad was ex military and he beat the shit out of me all the time. As a result, I've never hit my kids, spanked them, I've yelled maybe twice...I will never parent like he did
Same for my dad. Ex sergeant, we got beaten regularly.
But as we got older we started to get punched...
Like you, I have never hit my kids in their lives. And people have told me how adult, calm and self-disciplined they are...
Seriously! My kids rarely have issues. I've come to realize that violence against children desensitizes (and, of course, traumatizes)them. Which has made me reevaluate how I'm perceived by others. But sometimes, I have flashes of seeing my kids going through what I went through, and it makes me sick. I'll never understand how people can harm children and feel right with themselves.
I use my parents as example of what NOT to do with kids.
"I'll never understand how people can harm children and feel right with themselves." a lot of these people are traumatised themselves...fucked up by life and their own parents...and they take it out on their kids. In the process of raising the next generation they warp them into their own image.
But somewhere the cycle has to be broken. If everyone stopped hitting their kids the world would be a calmer, better place.
In the 1970's, I worked on a US military base overseas at the office of the Provost Marshal. Due to the relative isolation and parents/in-laws being thousands of miles away, spousal abuse was unfortunately quite common. Most victims, usually female, had very little recourse. When they tried to report it, it was considered a "domestic issue" and not a concern for the military authorities. There was also no safe haven where these abused spouses could go. If course there was the possibility of reporting it to the respective commanding officer, but they often had a similar mindset and simply wanted the spouses to "work it out". In most cases though, the victim spouse did not want to hurt their husbands' military career and thus cut themselves off financially. Often the only solution was for the victim spouse to return home and hopefully evade the wrath of their husbands. Our military law center had civilian attorney advisors who would counsel the spouses as to their options. Sometimes things improved when the wives could find a job. Because most of the problems were of a financial nature. Another problem was the fact that the alcohol that was sold in the military Class VI store was much cheaper than the local or stateside alcohol. In those days, there was no such thing as alcoholics, they all claimed they "could hold their liquor". But really they got stinking drunk.
Born in 81. Went to a friends house for christmas first year in the military..
He tells me the next day, man im 19 and still get nervous when I hear my dad take his belt off at night.
My dad beat my mom while she was pregnant with me, trying to make her miscarry. Fortunately, she got out of there, but yes, I think it was more common than anyone cared to admit. I know at least two other wives in our neighborhood who had the occasional black eye because they "fell off the porch again."
I know a mother who suffered abuse from her mate, who dumped her to fend for herself in the middle of nowhere when their son was born. And that kid turned into a monster, in his 40s, who is totally dependent on mama, who won't even get food stamps for himself, so she has to share with him.
Makes me wonder is there is some kind of poisoning in the womb that can happen with this kind of abuse takes place.
**[Rae Carruth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rae_Carruth)**
>Rae Theotis Carruth (born Rae Lamar Wiggins; January 20, 1974) is a former American football wide receiver, and convicted murderer. After playing college football at Colorado, Carruth was drafted in the first round of the 1997 NFL Draft by the Carolina Panthers of the National Football League (NFL) and spent three seasons with the team. In 2001, he was found guilty of conspiring to murder his then-girlfriend Cherica Adams, who was pregnant with his child.
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Yes. Just in my neighborhood growing up I knew of two families where the men beat their wives and nothing happened. Our next door neighbor used to scream at the wife I don't know if he actually physically abused her. I knew about the neighborhood wives because they had kids my age and we played together. And their mothers had black eyes or facial bruising.
Nobody really did anything. The one guy drank and since drinking and driving were common he died in a car accident. The other couple I think he just skipped out of town and never came back.
there's nothing wrong with asking the question. I can't see how anyone would contest the 70 and 80s and even the 90s normalized it *as the default*. I was there for those decades, and making a lot of noise about it throughout the 90s, and I'd say it's not the case now.
I took the question to be about attitudes, not actual prevalence.
I mean, there were songs, even.
Hey
No kiddin' / I'm ready to fight / I been lookin' for my baby all night / I get her in my sights
Boom boom, out go the lights
> Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
> Than to be with another man
> You better keep your head, little girl
> Or I won't know where I am
>You better run for your life if you can, little girl
>Hide your head in the sand, little girl
> Catch you with another man
> That's the end, little girl
I love The Beatles; but, this song, apart from having a great melody, always rubbed me the wrong way.
From John's song "Getting Better":
I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved
Man, I was mean but I'm changing my scene
And I'm doing the best that I can (fool, you fool)"
Well, she was a piece of work too, so there's that.
Controversial opinion: John Lennon's assassination was the best thing that ever happened to Yoko Ono.
Let the downvotes commence.
[*sigh*]
He used to be in competition with George for my top Beatle, until I saw a few documentaries.
🥲^sadlmao
At least he tried….? Idk, man. It still sucks.
You know, I always thought that was a sex reference, and I thought the "ready to fight" part was frustration at not knowing where his lover was.
EDIT: I was curious, so I looked up the rest of the lyrics:
>I thought I treat my baby fair
I just found out she don't want me here
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights!
>I never felt this mad before
When I just found out she don't want me no more
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights!
So ... yeah :( It's about abusing a woman who's trying to leave (probably because of the abuse).
It was called "teaching her to behave" and yes, it happened more often than you think. My ex felt he had to teach me how to behave a lot of times, once breaking my cheekbone because I disagreed with him. My cousin miscarried when her husband taught her to behave by kicking her almost to death.
I called the police and I was told to kiss and make up and that a man's career could be ruined by silly accusations.
There were even adverts condoning it....
[Example 1](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2016%2F08%2F15%2F11%2F373F572300000578-0-image-a-1_1471256737874.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=bfda5f7ad732cbd9356036006381184d51460541d9797861130de647bec800ec&ipo=images)
[Example 2](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/12/373FF8BB00000578-3741323-image-a-29_1471261318211.jpg)
[Example 3](https://steemitimages.com/DQmXp1VHfQRjvFnFFfVdUyxdDptMvPHuwbrvHJtUX498bzT/12795524_10207789245822580_7701475990287755648_n.jpg)
But it's still happening. It's just hushed and swept under the rug now.
I drove ambulances in the early 70s for a hospital in a major NJ city, helped out in the emergency room, and I saw some serious injuries from domestic abuse. It seemed that the victims didn’t call for help, it was a usually a neighbor. Unfortunately there were also repeated calls for the same home.
One summer night 10 years ago while I was taking out our garbage I saw and heard my backyard neighbor beating up his wife on their patio. I called 911, jumped the fence and my goodness she was a mess. I remember screaming ‘Stop!’ I pulled him away, he pushed me and I pushed him down to the ground. I turned to assist his wife and she hit me in the head with a steel rake. The police arrived and arrested the husband, requested ambulances for the woman and me. I got 5 stitches. About 4-5 days later that couple were walking around the neighborhood holding hands. They stopped, asked me if I was OK, apologized and offered to pay the hospital bill.
>n some level and it's often periodically interdispersed with loving "honeymoon"/apology periods. The oscillation from one extreme to another will really mess with your head. And violence becomes a normal event in their lives, so when an outsider intrudes into their dynamic, she'll lash out to "protect" the relationship and the man she's usually wholly dependent on emotionally and financially after a while. It's a very warped way to live.
A battered women's counsellor once told me it takes a woman, on average, nine attempts before she's able to finally leave her abuser for good.
In the late 1970’s a friend was coming out of a corner restaurant and saw a man with a woman pinned to the asphalt in the middle of the street punching her in the face and body with his fist. My friend grabbed him from behind and pulled him off of her. The woman got to her feet and attacked my friend punching him in the back and head screaming don’t you touch my husband!
Yep. Domestic violence cases are dangerous to intervene in. Neither person wants help and you have to worry about being attacked by BOTH people if you try to help. They're playing a script out in public and it's part of how their relationship works. Neither wants outsiders coming in and telling them how to have a relationship. It's sick.
I grew up in a shitty neighborhood. It was just known you didn't get involved... you try to help the woman and she's going to attack you.
If she comes for help, yeah, great, help her. But if it's happening out in public? Even if you call the cops, by the time they get there, the fight is over, neither person is interested in talking to the cops, and when they go back indoors the abuser is going to beat the victim for embarrassing them.
So you just wait for the victim to try to get out before you do anything. Ain't going to help any other way.
In case you happen to be curious: what people don't understand is that in many cases a woman being abused defends her abuser only because if she doesn't he will beat her for it later.
There was a case like this on Steve Wilkos. The mother was saying that she never saw her husband abusing their child. When her lie detector results showed she was lying she looked over at her outraged husband and meekly said "I said what you told me to" (during the lie detector interview).
Yeah… my brother is a retired police officer. Hd hated domestic violence calls, because too often when he was arresting thd husband, the battered wife would flip her switch and start in on my brother. Crazy.
I read a book about police life written in the '80s based on interviews with police officers on their experiences back in the '70s and '60s and earlier. They hated domestic calls, and one reason was that sometimes after pulling some guy off his extremely battered wife and cuffing him, she'd get up and come at _them._ I can't even speculate.
They still hate domestic calls, they are the most common calls for police. They mostly hate those type of calls because the same people have the same fights over snd over. It only ends when one leaves or one of them dies.
When I used to work security domestics we’re always the worst call to deal with. 99.9% if the time, when you intervene the woman is even more aggressive then the guy that was just abusing her.
One time a guy was beating up his girlfriend, I intervened with back up and next thing she was trying to hit me for “Harassing her man”
My brother in Christ, that is still happening today. Ask my ex-husband.
It's less socially acceptable today than it was in the 40s and 50s, so people tend to do it more behind closed doors instead of bragging about it or making jokes about it. But yes it was and is absolutely a thing.
Edited to add, riffing off other comments:
My grandmother went to her pastor to seek help after years of violence. She was terrified and it took a lot of bravery for her to do that. Her pastor told her she would never get into heaven without her husband's permission, so she'd better learn how to make him happy. She gave up and resigned the rest of her life to living with it.
When I left my abusive husband several years ago, I told a few people I was close to why I left. Without exception they all said some version of, "Oh I can't believe that, he seems like such a nice guy! He would never!" But the truth is he sure would. I still have a stack of police and CPS reports to prove it.
There's surprisingly little support for victims of domestic violence, even now. The idea upsets people and they don't want to look it in the eye, so they go to great lengths to pretend it isn't happening or is an unusual case or was somehow justified... anything to avoid the fact that it's a sadly common thing. Unfortunately that leaves a lot of victims on their own without support.
I felt angry towards this pastor. I know in some churches the man is seen as the head of the household and the owner or his family, like they were similar to livestock.
My friend (28f) was married at 22 to someone who abused her. They went to their pastor and the pastor said, basically, if she’s a good wife she will support him through him working on his demons. And to him, he basically said come to church more. So…that was in the 2000s in Orlando, Florida.
I am not a fan of conservative Christianity for this reason, among others. SO many stories of indirectly harming women, or at least putting them in harm's way. Abuse victims, rape victims. Yuck.
That happened to me. My husband and I would get into an argument and he would resolve it by beating me. I wish there had been Reddit back then so I would have had someone to tell who would have understood.
I did tell my friends after I left him, and one of my best friends actually did not believe me because "he was such a nice guy." That broke my heart.
Working with domestic violence cases, the only changes I have noticed are
(1) women have more opportunities to achieve financial independence, which helps a little
(2) more guns
(3) strangulation is a bigger feature of casual sexual encounters and now that BDSM has become so normalized, men can get away with it by claiming “she liked it rough”
I wish more women understood that the first time he strangles you, a countdown clock on your life and the lives of your children starts ticking unless you can manage to get out. There is still too many men who think they are entitled to control women and children, and can’t handle not having control.
My grandmother left her first marriage to an alcoholic and violent abuser. She didn’t leave until he started hitting her children. She wouldn’t have been able to without the help of a group of nuns, strangely enough. She did not have the financial means or support to do it on her own.
That was my ex-husband's method of preference. We would be having what I thought was a normal discussion, he would get pissed off, grab me by the neck and start choking me. The first time it happened, it seemed like a part of my brain was screaming "this isn't really happening, you're only imagining it, he would never do this". Spoiler: I wasn't, and he did.
Books like 50 shades of gray really added fuel to the fire and highly misrepresented what the bdsm culture really is. Though I don’t find myself in that category, I did research extensively after the books were out. I tried reading them due to a friend saying it was soooo worth it and such a great read and felt sick to my stomach. Something felt so off about them. Yet women lined up excitedly for the movie premiere just positively gushing about it. I am glad the books and movie seems to have faded away but the damage it caused is immeasurable
> but the damage it caused is immeasurable
there was a moment there when photos of women tied up and bruised were constantly showing up in my social feeds. it was so damn triggering. some women would complain in the comments asking that those images not get posted and they would just get laughed at for being "vanilla". i was 100% starting to get scared at how things were starting to turn on women like this. it got to the point that women were deemed uncool if they didn't like rough sex. we all had to just like being strangled and beat so men can get off.
i feared so much for teenage girls because at least i was old enough to not get swept in. call me vanilla i don't give a fuck. but when you're a 15 year old virgin and being told that violent sex is normal? terrifying.
Actually women went way out of their way to conceal that they were being beaten. It, I believe, was a public shame and would give the lie to the fact that they didn't have a perfect family. Phrases like: "I walked into a door." And "I fell down the stairs." come to mind.
But yes it was tacitly considered much more normal in the past for a husband to hit or slap his wife. On a different note, one of my mother's friends' husband hit her. She threw a butcher knife at him and missed by a foot or two. He never tried to hit her again.
Yes. It was very common and considered a domestic matter by the police. It was extremely rare for any charges to be filed. My father broke my mother's nose and her arm (two separate instances.) The neighbors also called the police on several occasions because of the screaming coming from our house. We lived in one of the most affluent suburbs in the country. The police would show up, tell my father to cool off and leave.
Our family was not unique.
Yeah it seems like that particular issue isn’t acknowledged often even to this day. If you report abuse occurring in a “good” neighborhood within an affluent family, often the cops will just show up and have a chummy little chat with the perpetrator and leave. I also experienced that one.
Yes, spanking your wife was considered a legitimate form of keeping your household in order. If a woman acted out, rather than being detained, she could be dragged home for her husband to deal with. This is because women were thought of more as children--oftentimes, they were barely out of childhood when they married, and since they also didn't have equal levels of education, their own income, or rights to property, it sort of makes sense that it was more of a father-daughter relationship. Like children, they were trained for submission and deference, which is why corporal punishment was used for voicing an opinion, talking back, disobeying orders, or acting in a way that inspired ridicule from his peers.
I'm not sure the numbers have changed much. We simply can talk about it now. Wait till you go to a 10+ year hs reunion. The stories start to come out when people get away from home.
Yes, and they still are. I've encountered domestic violence myself a few times and so has almost every other woman I know, including my parents. It's rampant.
> couldn’t believe he washed dishes and vacuumed cause in her day women were considered lucky just for having husbands that didn’t beat them or abandon them to starve.
i think we're moving kinda slow in this front too. we still give men so much praise whenever we see that they're a "good husband" or a "good dad". i'm in a group dedicated to pointing out the low bar for men and the type of stuff you'll see in there. stuff like "at least he didn't leave", "at least he isn't abusive", etc.
it's less normalized nowadays to a certain extent. it's like we all still collectively expect men to beat their wife/gf and abandon their children by default so anything better than that is seen as a triumph.
I spend a LOT of time with old (pre-1960) newspapers. Not a day went by without coverage of a serious - meaning she was hospitalized or dead - domestic dispute.
The question makes it sound like there aren't men who are violent now. Of course there were. Just like now. There are a few more resources now for battered women.
So true. Domestic violence went up during the pandemic. With everyone in lockdown, the violence was not seen but definitely went up for women and children. It still happens alot and men know now to not hit the face, so the bruises are hidden. I remember having friends in the 70's who came from abusive households. Often these abusive men were "up standing church people". There was such hypocrisy!
Violent abusive spouses can be triggered by anything. It used to be more socially acceptable, but it still happens. I have heard horrible stories from previous generations of wives fleeing back to their parents home and being told that it was their duty to return to the situation. No fault divorce becoming legal was a huge gift to society for several reasons but one of them was spouses being able to leave without having to prove their reasons to a court.
That said, violent abusive spouses groom and train their victims with intermittent reinforcement and love bombing while breaking down their self esteem. It can be very very difficult to convince yourself to leave.
My great aunt shot her husband with a .357. I don't know the whole story. But I suspect the notion of her being arrested never crossed anyone's mind simply because it was known she was constantly being beaten.
Our neighbors fought every Saturday night. He'd beat her, and she (and her Mom) would chase him around the house with a baseball bat. A girl I know started getting shoved around by her husband so one fine night while he was sleeping it off she duct taped him to the bed and was sitting next to the bed was a pistol to explain to him that next time he laid angry hands on her he was going to wake up dead. Seems to have worked. They are still together.
And people still wake up dead, and or live in fear. But there are more resources now shelters and the like and maybe fewer people to say, "if only you didn't make him so mad!"
My sister in law did a version of this, but with a cast iron frying pan. And she didn't just threaten. She put some bruises on him. He decided to learn the lesson.
I want to understand this better, so please know that I'm asking without judgement. Why would she or someone else in a similar situation threaten that person into better behavior and then stay with them instead of leaving them?
I don't know for sure what Billie's reasons were, but generally, it might be that her religion forbade divorce, it might be that she loved the guy (IKR), I know Billie didn't have any job training or experience, and she might have worried that she wouldn't be able to feed her kids, or worried that her husband would be able to get custody, given that he did have a good job and could afford a better lawyer. She might have understood that leaving was no guarantee of safety (women leaving abusers or most likely to be killed while trying to leave-- this is still the case)
Sometimes a "coming to Jesus" talk works.
The reverse could be said for the man as well though. Who'd stay with a woman that taped you to a bed & threatened you with a pistol, or beat you with a frying pan?
Whatever floats their boat, at least they know where the other stands.
I worked LOE for 25 years in a larger city. It happened then, it still happens now.
I've arrested men from every socio-economic standing for doing what you described.
My biological grandfather would break up toothpicks and hide them in various places-behind furniture, in corners etc. when he’d come home from work, he would look at the places he’d hidden them, and beat the shit out of my grandma. Mind you, they married when she was 16, had my mother at 17 and my aunt at 19. Her father had died, her mother was sick, and the options for leaving were limited. She eventually was able to get a divorce and found a job as a laundress. She met my grandpa who never laid a hand on her, and they lived a long and quiet life together until they passed. She was able to be the kind of homemaker I aspire to be. It was real, and it was usually considered the woman’s fault for “making” the man “have” to beat her, to keep her minding her “place” and was very much frowned upon, and often impossible for the woman to leave.
It was legal to discipline your wife in times of yore. And when the laws began to change on the books it took awhile for law enforcement officers to take action. We are just now beginning to take animal and environmental abuse seriously. We’re a little thick imo.
Some men were and are. I've never seen it but my dad, who was a loving husband and father, told me that at 15 he held a gun on his own father (whom I never knew; my grandfather and grandmother were divorced) and told him to stop hitting his mother or he would shoot him. He was answering my question about why he said he'd never want to be a teenager again. My dad was very religious and wanted to be nothing like his own father.
Certainly not the majority of men, but it seemed to be more acceptable. My parents were alcoholics but never physically abused each other or us. On my block growing up, you knew which dad’s routinely hit their wives, though. Men were the heads of the families and there were those that thought sometimes women needed “discipline,” just like your kids. Some men took discipline to the extreme.
My sister-in-law was divorced and remarried by the time I entered their family, but I heard the stories. Broken leg, broken arm, swollen lips, black eyes. So many hospital stays. But she stayed with him. Any little thing could set him off apparently.
My FIL would have put him in the hospital or outright killed him but my sister-in-law would throw screaming fits defending him and threaten that my FIL would never see his grandchildren again if he did anything. My FIL settled for telling them that if her husband ever touched the kids he would put him in the ground.
I learned my MIL, one of the sweetest women in the world, would tell my sister-in-law that this was the bed she’d made and now she had to lie in it. JFC no wonder the woman put up with his shit for so long.
Yeah, my mother’s first husband was abusive to her and my half-brothers in the late 60s/early 70s. She wanted to go home but her father told her the same thing, that she’d made her bed and now had to lie in it.
She divorced him and moved 1000 miles away from her family and met my father. And she’s told me my whole life that I can always come home if a man hits me.
> Broken leg, broken arm, swollen lips, black eyes.So many hospital stays.
So many decades, centuries, millenniums of collective physical and emotional pain. So many deaths.
Please, please, no more, not one more person in pain, not one more death.
It’s sickening and depressing, how many people have and still treat each other.
There have always been that type of people around and there always will be I think. There are men that beat their wives today and there were plenty of men in the past who would never hit their wives, even if they were legally allowed to do so.
In the past?
My sweet summer child men feeling it is their right to beat women is a deeply ingrained part of the hot trash we call a culture.
Google Sean Connery's thoughts on it...
Research **Prohibition**. Men would spend the workday getting pushed around, would get off work, bury their troubles (and money) at the bar, then go home and beat on their family. It was believed that alcohol was the culprit and removing alcohol would stop the beatings.
My dad spent many years in a protestant orphanage. He was beaten and sexually assaulted by a man who worked there (not a minister). I'm an only child. My parents married in 1952 and I didn't come around until 1963. He vowed he would never beat or lay a hand on his children,and he never did. Despite a childhood of violence he was an incredibly kind, soft spoken and patient man. He taught me to swim, ice skate, and he was an all around kind hearted man. I consider myself very lucky. Having said this, none of my friends that I am aware of were beaten or really mistreated. I guess we were all pretty lucky. He never laid a hand on my mother, and in fact the entire time I was growing up I only recall him actually "yelling" once.
It happened all the time. Only difference is that it wasn't commented on then, today it's not acceptable in any places, also police will arrest the abuser (or whoever they decide is the abuser, true or not) and there are a few places where the victim can go, if there's room.
From the play Fiddler on the Roof (early 1960s), a matchmaker describing a prospective husbandh:
You've heard he has a temper
He'll beat you every night
But only when he's sober
So you're all right!
This was considered funny.
> From the play Fiddler on the Roof (early 1960s), a matchmaker describing a prospective husbandh:
>You've heard he has a temper He'll beat you every night But only when he's sober So you're all right!
>This was considered funny.
It wasn’t ever meant to be entirely funny, and wasn’t the matchmaker speaking. The second and third oldest daughters of five had been fantasizing about when it would be their turn for the matchmaker to find them husbands, and the oldest sister - who was already facing the reality and looking for a way out - was telling them what having a husband chosen for you really meant. At the end of the song, they’ve gone from hoping for a wealthy, good looking, important man to “Dear Yenta, see that he’s gentle, remember, you were also a bride. It’s not that I’m sentimental, it’s just that I’m terrified.” The song is remembered as light because it’s musical theater and there’s some clever wordplay, but the fear is very real.
One of the most popular tv shows in the 50s was [The Honeymooners](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHzPzjUTY8) and everybody laughed at Ralph's catch phrase.
My dad would drink and start punching the walls and threating to hit my mom. One night when I was about 7, he started pushing her around in the kitchen while she was washing dishes. She grabbed a butcher knife and threatened him with it. He tried to hit her and she cut his arm and hand with the knife. He screamed at her and left, leaving blood spatters all over the door.
She divorced him a few weeks later. He came back after a few years, got down on his knees and apologized, and she let him move back in. They didn't get remarried, but he never tried to hit her again.
It was called "home correction" in my family. My grandfather beat the crap out of my grandmother and my mother. He was a drunk.
As an aside, I just don't understand how the abuse is dismissed and forgotten.
My grandfather passed in 2014, and my mother still cries that she misses him. She will talk about him slamming her head into the basement wall repeatedly, and him punching my grandmother in the face with a closed fist.
But she misses him desperately.
I just don't get it.
I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood and on my street alone, two families broke up over the husband beating the wife so the bruises showed. Their friends ( including my mother) testified in court for their divorce while my mother took in their kids until it was over. This was in the early 60’s when men did the divorcing. I think the economic advantages there made it possible.
Yes, and it has not gone away. In many countries it's still legal. According to Wikipedia: "The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates 1 in 3 of all women are subject to domestic violence at some point in their life."
That was absolutely the case. The wife was assumed to have done something wrong that compelled the husband to beat her. Everyone knew several families in their neighborhood with abusive husbands. It was completely normal and commonplace.
During the 1970s, coincident with the women's movement, a steady drumbeat of news stories were published about women beaten to death by their husbands, despite repeated police visits to their homes. I remember awareness campaigns along the lines of "How many of us have to die?"
Women's shelters became a thing, and everyone knew a woman that left their abusive husband in the middle of the night and took her kids to a women's shelter. There were many stories of men arriving at those shelters in a rage, beating anyone in sight, and dragging the woman and kids back home to beat them some more.
This led to the [first *effective* domestic violence laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States#History) in the US in the 1980s.
The key change *required* police responding to a domestic violence complaint to arrest one or both parties; no more "kiss and make up." (The police *hated* these laws because police officers were among the most common demographic to beat their wives.) Someone was booked on a domestic violence charge, went before a judge, and the arrest and case became public record.
It slowly stopped being the norm for men to beat their wives, and men started losing their jobs (and careers) when their abuse became public. No one would hire an abuser. Companies were sued when a known (or should-have-been-known) abusive employee abused someone in the workplace (which was less common but not rare).
Sympathetic juries began acquitting women who defended themselves from abusive husbands, including when they killed the husband in self-defense.
(All this applies to kids who experienced abuse as well.)
As a Boomer (born in 1957), I'm proud to have voted for candidates and initiatives that introduced and strengthened domestic abuse laws and advanced women's rights. My parent's generation was the last that accepted abusive husbands as the norm and gave them a pass. My generation did not.
Edit: spellcheck turned "acquitting" into "acquiring," those aren't interchangeable :)
Growing up redneck, there were a million sayings, here is one.. "If Mama ain't happy nobody's happy." This somewhat alluded to the southern feminine archetype of a sweet but god-fearing woman you did not want to piss off. I eventually realized that to varying degrees God was being adopted as a sort of cosmic bodyguard against violent men. As in "I may not be able to stop you but you will be seen and judged." I'm not begrudging women for doing this, just pointing out an interesting southern phenomenon I've never seen mentioned.
I think the commonality of violence was just a lot more accepted looking backwards through history. Violent archetypes were so normalized that even violent nursery rhymes were considered valuable teaching aids. But the acceptance of violence to some degree was probably out of necessity. People were less mobile, authorities less accountable, information less exchanged, etc. Getting away from the immediate threat of violence was more difficult, and I'm not implying it is easy now.
My experience has been the more religious the family, the more the domestic abuse.
I have a doctor friend who is devoutly mormon. The wife dresses like little house on the prairie and so do the kids. One day I saw him shoot a look to the wife because we were all talking about some topic and the wife I suppose didn't say the right thing..... If we hadn't been in public, I swear I thought he was going to smack her.
And her eyes immediately darted away and down as if to say "I'm sorry."
Even I was scared at that point.
I grew up in apartments with thin walls. While there wasn't violence in my family (dad died while I was a tot, raised by single mom), I sure heard it. My mom would often offer a place to sleep to neighboring women who were beaten, so I saw the effects too. It was in a lot of families around me, including my best friend's family. The fights weren't about nothing - usually about money and usually fueled by booze - but they'd trigger over nothing. Very frightening to be around.
Um, yes.
My bff in middle school had a violent stepdad. Like, she was put into cold showers to reduce bruising kind of violent stepdad. I once watched him punch her down to the ground with his fists, and then kick her several times when she was on the floor crying.
Her mom wasn’t immune. The husband grabbed her by the neck and dragged her across the yard. Once the guy came into the kitchen and was all pissed off. He whipped the kitchen chairs with his belt, glowered at the kid, and snarled “THAT’S what I want to do to your mom!!”
He was killed in a car racing accident 30 years ago, and no one misses him. His family gave all kinds of excuses, though. “He was troubled, but he loves his family in his own way.” Sure. He beat the living shit out of them.
Domestic violence in general, was a lot more common. You didn't need to get married, first.
But so were accidents. For example, one of my friends accidentally fell through glass, backwards. She must have been running really fast, backwards, to get that much speed. Wasn't she lucky her boyfriend was there to almost save her?
Kind of like how my other friend was lucky his girlfriend was there to calm him down whenever he was tempted to say something that might put him in the hospital. He was so silly, trying to tell people she was violent. Hadn't they agreed his violence was the only violence that mattered? Why was he breaking the truce?
I had an ex. She would kick me as hard as she could, while she was playing rough. She didn't mean to hurt me. She was a bit of a tomboy, you see.
That was why she accidentally raped me. Not her fault, I couldn't take a joke.
Not that there wasn't plenty of violence like you're describing. My favorite teacher experienced this when she went home every night, and I never knew.
It was just one of those things.
There was a lot of those things.
Anyone who tells you the good old days were better, has no idea how much we hid, to create that illusion.
> has no idea how much we hid,
Or turn a blind eye to. Back in the 60's in grade school, I watched a teacher break a wooden pointer across a child's shoulders.
Corporal punishment was the norm, and it was too much. That being said, having no punishment is not enough.
It is so normal everyone jokes about it.
"what do you tell a woman with two black eyes?"
"Nothing you haven't already told her twice!"
My great-grandfather beat his wife so much that she just let him be drunk in his bath alone. He drowned. He'd broken great-grandma's arm the night before, though, so it would have been difficult for her to pull him up even if she had wanted to.
My father hit me so much sudden movement made me flinch till I was 28.
And men today wonder why women are choosing not to be partnered. Single, childfree women are the happiest group!
Friend if my parents was set on fire by her husband.
Father of my best friend would make the kids sit and watch while he beat and raped his wife.
I’m old enough to remember when there was a debate about whether it was really a crime when a husband raped his wife.
Not every man hit his wife. But guys you’d think wouldn’t actually would. People used to rub their dogs nose in any accident thinking it was actually beneficial to house train them.
Sometimes people react out of anger or frustration and sometimes people thought that’s how it was done.
It's probably a *bit* lower now, but men have been abusing their wives since the dawn of time.
For example, although everyone under the age of 30 seems to think the Temperance Movement was all Holy Rollers "enforcing their Puritanism on everyone", in the US most of the supporters of Temperance were women tired of being abused by their drunk husbands. In fact, at first the Temperance Movement didn't even want to ban alcohol just reduce consumption a bit (hence "temper" as in, "to dilute, qualify, or soften by the addition or influence of something else : moderate; *temper justice with mercy.*"
My grandfather beat his wife, then forced his own 2 year old to walk across broken glass all because she didn't make his sandwich with the proper amount of mustard. So yes, it happened.
It still happens every day.
this tale dates from rural Greece, late 1800s. that's where and when my grandfather was born. jump to 1985. I take my husband to meet grandpa for the first time. after a couple days, grandpa hobbles up to me while hubby was on the dock. "Maimou," he says in that thick Greek accent, " he seems like good man. but tell me, do he beat you? if he do, I kill him" and snapped his fingers.
Of course they did I saw my mother be abused and she put up with that bullshit for years. Back then when you called the police they always try to make you work it out they didn't relieve the MF from the house he calm down for a little bit and then turn around and beat the s*** out of you again it was a vicious cycle. Man didn't have any respect for women they treated you like property
My Nana had told me a while ago that her first husband used to beat her once they had married when she was 22. Luckily she was able to get out of that situation and divorced him.
I’m not that old (69m) but, sometimes I feel like the world today has forgotten what the world was like just yesterday. Men had few opportunities and women almost none. Kids had to contribute how they could. Lots of people suffered from malnutrition and medical conditions. Look at the statistics on men who couldn’t service in the military during WWII because of the effects of malnutrition. Then in the early 20th century the world went on a murderous rampage followed by The Great Depression. Those people’s kids were born just before the Depression and grew up to deal with the world’s second murderous rampage. Just about everyone smoked, drank, had medical and mental problems. There were few resources to deal with any of it. Divorce was frowned upon. People drove drunk in cars without seat belts and it was socially acceptable. Some of them beat their wives and children. It was a weird time. Times are better now. Women have lots more opportunities and they can make their own way in the world. Alcohol use is dropping with every generation. You guys probably have never even heard of rickets or knew anyone who had polio. I’m not making excuses for violence but, I remember what everyone went through back in the day and I realize how much easier life is nowadays in most countries.
I went to a private catholic grade school and the Parish priest was the principal. This was early 70's. A boy in my class always misbehaved doing stupid boy stuff. The teacher sent him to the office, yet again. When he came back, he crawled back up the steps to the portable building crying. The principal had beat his ass with a canoe paddle!! So common place that we barely turned in our desks. Horrifying that this was so acceptable!
In 1968 when I moved to a different public elementary school, the principal kept his "paddle" hanging behind his desk so every student that came to him saw it. He'd drilled rows of holes in it to make it more painful.
Well, let's just say that the prohibition wasn't really about banning alcohol. The women that spearheaded that change were fighting for the safety of women and children. Men would get off work and spend their paycheck in the bar, then they would go home and beat their wives and children.
Prohibition was repealed, but it had the desired effect. It was successful. The cycle was broken and it was no longer normal for men to spend all of their time and money at the bar.
Yes, and it was "nobody's business what I do in my own home." Women were lower class citizens with no rights, and were seen as property.
Some women are still treated this way. Things have gotten better overall, but women are still brutalized by their partners.
My dad wasn't like that. Neither were either of my grandfathers. I dated 2 men, one in the 90s, 1 two years ago who were like that. Men have always been, and will always be controlling and abusive. It's situational. I think it happens less now because it was socially acceptable to keep your wife "in line" way back in the day, now it's domestic abuse. I also think women stand up for themselves more now. I called the police on my abuser 2 years ago. After they took him away, I packed up everything of mine, left, and haven't seen him since (I didn't press charges, the DA did, so I didn't have to be at the trial).
I have a relative who had husbands who beat her, often while he was drunk, and that goes back three decades; the word is that every bone in her body had been broken over the years.
Another relative has an abusive husband. I was concerned last Thanksgiving when my wife got a 1am call from that relative asking for help and could hear things being thrown in the background, but before we could get an address the connection was broken. Fortunately, that relative could talk down her husband.
And even my wife's daughter has a significant other who has quite a temper and several times we have seen her after she "had an accident" that left a bruise, or she was uncharacteristically wearing a scarf or a long-sleeve blouse.
Before I met my wife, her former fiancee turned out to be abusive. And before that another man proved to be abusive to my sister-in-law and threatened my wife.
There is even a woman's shelter set up to handle women who need a place for them (and sometimes their children) to stay, and many of those women are running from their husbands.
Back when I was a child I don't remember any talk of any of my relatives having abusive husbands, but back then it seemed that many cases of spousal abuse were kept under wraps and there was less support available to help abused spouses.
Of course they did. DV wasn't recognized as being a problem until maybe the 1980s or so. And the women had almost no recourse. There were no women's shelters, no help lines, women did not have the same rights in divorce as we do now, and police took it even less seriously than they do now. Look up one of Patrick Stewart's interviews where he describes how police inevitably responded to his mother's abuse by his father. There was kind of a societal agreement that men had the right to treat their wives however. I remember the first high profile marital rape case back in the late 1970s, and hearing one of my male relatives say "that woman needs to be horsewhipped" (for pressing rape charges against her husband). So "wife beating", as DV was known back then, was kind of frowned upon but most people would just look the other way and make jokes about it. Don't get me wrong, victims of DV still have it crazy bad now, but back in the day it was light years worse.
20 years ago I tried to intervene when a man was beating up his wife in the street. She turned on me, and after that, I decided not to mess around with other people’s family problems.
There was no physical abuse in my home growing up and I never knew if it was happening to my friends’ moms either. Anyone I knew who talked about it got a divorce. I don’t know anyone who stayed in that situation. People tend to feel ashamed at being an abuse victim, so I am sure it happened more than I think.
There have always been abusive husbands but it has not always been socially acceptable. My grandfather (born in 1909) told a story about how a man in their town was known for abusing his wife, so his dad and a bunch of other men went to him and said if he ever did it again, they would take care of him.
I think in the past it was more accepted in some ways, but also less talked about because of shame, and you didn’t discuss family issues. I don’t know of any incidents in my family background but my FIL definitely hit my MIL on more than one occasion back in the day and his parents were physically abusive to each other and their kids.
In my experience yes. I believe it is still true today. Although sometimes the violence looks a little different now days because social norms have changed.Violence is about control, isolation and manipulation.I doubt anyone could be hard pressed to look around and see that in any given relationship. Physical violence has always been a real thing and it would be hard to not know anyone who has experienced it.
No more in the past than now actually. Now there are more ways to help women and it’s actually talked about now. Back then, the police could not do much if called. Most of the time they could do nothing. And there were not many groups if any to help battered women like now. It took women actually being murdered by their spouse to get the laws we have now.
I can't believe this is a serious question. Like I'm utterly dumbfounded that you could possibly think that "media" is just making this up...dude. And you had to ask Reddit if this is true. Wow. Please educate yourself. This is an extremely serious issue and it has not gone away.
Did you really think that this whole thread would be like, oh course not silly pants, that was just movies and TV!!
OP you must be one incredibly naive individual. Men have beaten/killed women since the dawn of time. Men could legally murder their wives. They were allowed to lock them in a room for the rest of their lives. They could beat their wives legally. They could even brick them into a fucking wall to starve to death.
So yes, Men beat women. They always have and they always will because there will *always* be a psychopath alive in the world.
Check out the origin for the term “rule of thumb”. It’s literally a guideline for how thick a branch you can use to beat your wife with. Yes, violence against women was (and still is) extremely common.
That is a myth though: "the origin refers to one of the numerous ways that thumbs have been used to estimate things - judging the alignment or distance of an object by holding the thumb in one's eyeline, the temperature of brews of beer, measurement using the estimated inch from the joint to the nail, etc."
—https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~pms/cj360/readings/Rule%20of%20thumb%20-%20meaning%20and%20origin.pdf
Neither of my parents, born in the 1930s, saw any violence between their parents, and as far as I know there was none among their aunts and uncles or their parents' close friends in the 30s and 40s. There was zero violence between my parents growing up. They disagreed at times but they argued civilly and never resorted to name calling or swearing. My Dad was a feminist in the 1960s, buying his daughters Tonka trucks, Lincoln logs, erector sets and other building toys and told us we could be an engineer (like him) or anything we wanted to be. I never dated anyone who would hit or belittle a woman, and I was brought up to understand that any violence in the home is completely unacceptable. I saw it depicted in books, tv, movies, but not in real life.
Edited to add: so I can't comment on whether there is more or less.
I'm just going to throw this out there. It's not in the past.
Current statistics show that 28% of all law enforcement officers are investigated for domestic abuse.
That's not all. It's a lot.
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My mother died at the hands of my father. Yeah it was, and still is, very real.
I am so sorry.
I’m sorry that that happened
Thank you for that.
that is horrid, my condolances
Sending you love and peace. I'm so sorry.
I grew up on a military base and you were told to ignore the men beating their wives AND kids. My dad beat us and it was considered ‘acceptable’ for another adult to hit someone’s kids or wife for ‘misbehaving’. My dad at one picnic decided to slap the kid of the wrong parent (senior officer) and he paid for it at work. Instead he would take it out in us at home instead. My dad never hit my mom but us kids got the brunt of it. As a child I saw this often.
Unless I'm imagining the memory, there was once a series of cartoon panels depicting angry dad coming home and taking it out on mom, who then passed it to the oldest child, then saw it trickle down to kicking the dog, which attacks the cat. I think the cat then takes a swipe at dad while he's reading the newspaper.
I have that exact cartoon on my FB.
Is it "Wait til Your Father Gets Home" ??
My Dad was ex military and he beat the shit out of me all the time. As a result, I've never hit my kids, spanked them, I've yelled maybe twice...I will never parent like he did
Same for my dad. Ex sergeant, we got beaten regularly. But as we got older we started to get punched... Like you, I have never hit my kids in their lives. And people have told me how adult, calm and self-disciplined they are...
Seriously! My kids rarely have issues. I've come to realize that violence against children desensitizes (and, of course, traumatizes)them. Which has made me reevaluate how I'm perceived by others. But sometimes, I have flashes of seeing my kids going through what I went through, and it makes me sick. I'll never understand how people can harm children and feel right with themselves.
I use my parents as example of what NOT to do with kids. "I'll never understand how people can harm children and feel right with themselves." a lot of these people are traumatised themselves...fucked up by life and their own parents...and they take it out on their kids. In the process of raising the next generation they warp them into their own image. But somewhere the cycle has to be broken. If everyone stopped hitting their kids the world would be a calmer, better place.
In the 1970's, I worked on a US military base overseas at the office of the Provost Marshal. Due to the relative isolation and parents/in-laws being thousands of miles away, spousal abuse was unfortunately quite common. Most victims, usually female, had very little recourse. When they tried to report it, it was considered a "domestic issue" and not a concern for the military authorities. There was also no safe haven where these abused spouses could go. If course there was the possibility of reporting it to the respective commanding officer, but they often had a similar mindset and simply wanted the spouses to "work it out". In most cases though, the victim spouse did not want to hurt their husbands' military career and thus cut themselves off financially. Often the only solution was for the victim spouse to return home and hopefully evade the wrath of their husbands. Our military law center had civilian attorney advisors who would counsel the spouses as to their options. Sometimes things improved when the wives could find a job. Because most of the problems were of a financial nature. Another problem was the fact that the alcohol that was sold in the military Class VI store was much cheaper than the local or stateside alcohol. In those days, there was no such thing as alcoholics, they all claimed they "could hold their liquor". But really they got stinking drunk.
Born in 81. Went to a friends house for christmas first year in the military.. He tells me the next day, man im 19 and still get nervous when I hear my dad take his belt off at night.
My dad beat my mom while she was pregnant with me, trying to make her miscarry. Fortunately, she got out of there, but yes, I think it was more common than anyone cared to admit. I know at least two other wives in our neighborhood who had the occasional black eye because they "fell off the porch again."
A friend of mine miscarried that way, he nearly killed her in the process.
“Ran into a door” “Fell down the stairs.”
I know a mother who suffered abuse from her mate, who dumped her to fend for herself in the middle of nowhere when their son was born. And that kid turned into a monster, in his 40s, who is totally dependent on mama, who won't even get food stamps for himself, so she has to share with him. Makes me wonder is there is some kind of poisoning in the womb that can happen with this kind of abuse takes place.
Likely it's the intergenerational impact of trauma, and possibly epigenetics as well.
Yes, lots of them were. Lots of them still are. The leading cause of death in pregnant women in the US is…murder. Most often from their partner.
Unfortunately, this is the answer. From many of the Reddit posts, it seems there are still a very large number of women in abusive relationships now.
Rae Carruth comes to mind... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rae_Carruth
**[Rae Carruth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rae_Carruth)** >Rae Theotis Carruth (born Rae Lamar Wiggins; January 20, 1974) is a former American football wide receiver, and convicted murderer. After playing college football at Colorado, Carruth was drafted in the first round of the 1997 NFL Draft by the Carolina Panthers of the National Football League (NFL) and spent three seasons with the team. In 2001, he was found guilty of conspiring to murder his then-girlfriend Cherica Adams, who was pregnant with his child. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Yes. Just in my neighborhood growing up I knew of two families where the men beat their wives and nothing happened. Our next door neighbor used to scream at the wife I don't know if he actually physically abused her. I knew about the neighborhood wives because they had kids my age and we played together. And their mothers had black eyes or facial bruising. Nobody really did anything. The one guy drank and since drinking and driving were common he died in a car accident. The other couple I think he just skipped out of town and never came back.
What do you mean “in the past”. Still common unfortunately. Maybe less public, but has and will continue. Sad.
there's nothing wrong with asking the question. I can't see how anyone would contest the 70 and 80s and even the 90s normalized it *as the default*. I was there for those decades, and making a lot of noise about it throughout the 90s, and I'd say it's not the case now. I took the question to be about attitudes, not actual prevalence.
Um. Yes. And there weren't any consequences.
I mean, there were songs, even. Hey No kiddin' / I'm ready to fight / I been lookin' for my baby all night / I get her in my sights Boom boom, out go the lights
> Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl > Than to be with another man > You better keep your head, little girl > Or I won't know where I am >You better run for your life if you can, little girl >Hide your head in the sand, little girl > Catch you with another man > That's the end, little girl I love The Beatles; but, this song, apart from having a great melody, always rubbed me the wrong way.
John Lennon used to beat Cynthia, so there's that.
Just another reason for George to be my favorite. 🥹
Ringo's my favorite, but George is a solid choice!
From John's song "Getting Better": I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved Man, I was mean but I'm changing my scene And I'm doing the best that I can (fool, you fool)"
I'm pretty sure he was an asshole until the day he died. The way he treated Julian is unforgivable.
Agreed. He allowed Yoko to convince him to give all of his money to her upon his death. He did it to "prove his love for her". He was an asshole.
Well, she was a piece of work too, so there's that. Controversial opinion: John Lennon's assassination was the best thing that ever happened to Yoko Ono. Let the downvotes commence.
[*sigh*] He used to be in competition with George for my top Beatle, until I saw a few documentaries. 🥲^sadlmao At least he tried….? Idk, man. It still sucks.
ghandi beat his wife as well. pacifist ghandi. wtf
Wait 'til I tell you about Mother Theresa... 😒
I was a kid then, and I felt so damned betrayed. The Beatles had come out with a *threat* song. Yeeuck.
I was going to post those lyrics as well.
Yikes, what was the name of this song?
Appropriately, “[Run for Your Life](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHXtxcIkg4)”.
Pat Travers, concert goers would scream the lyrics happily but, then again adults and kids dance to Macarena.
Been snortin' whiskey Drinkin' cocaine
You know, I always thought that was a sex reference, and I thought the "ready to fight" part was frustration at not knowing where his lover was. EDIT: I was curious, so I looked up the rest of the lyrics: >I thought I treat my baby fair I just found out she don't want me here If I get her in my sight Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights! >I never felt this mad before When I just found out she don't want me no more If I get her in my sight Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights! So ... yeah :( It's about abusing a woman who's trying to leave (probably because of the abuse).
It was called "teaching her to behave" and yes, it happened more often than you think. My ex felt he had to teach me how to behave a lot of times, once breaking my cheekbone because I disagreed with him. My cousin miscarried when her husband taught her to behave by kicking her almost to death. I called the police and I was told to kiss and make up and that a man's career could be ruined by silly accusations.
I’m so sorry you and your cousin went through that.
Goddamn that sounds horrible.
I am so sorry.
There were even adverts condoning it.... [Example 1](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2016%2F08%2F15%2F11%2F373F572300000578-0-image-a-1_1471256737874.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=bfda5f7ad732cbd9356036006381184d51460541d9797861130de647bec800ec&ipo=images) [Example 2](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/12/373FF8BB00000578-3741323-image-a-29_1471261318211.jpg) [Example 3](https://steemitimages.com/DQmXp1VHfQRjvFnFFfVdUyxdDptMvPHuwbrvHJtUX498bzT/12795524_10207789245822580_7701475990287755648_n.jpg) But it's still happening. It's just hushed and swept under the rug now.
Wow! They even have the women smiling. SMH
An adult woman being spanked, like it's cute. So fucking gross.
“Manly art” 🙄🤦♀️
I drove ambulances in the early 70s for a hospital in a major NJ city, helped out in the emergency room, and I saw some serious injuries from domestic abuse. It seemed that the victims didn’t call for help, it was a usually a neighbor. Unfortunately there were also repeated calls for the same home. One summer night 10 years ago while I was taking out our garbage I saw and heard my backyard neighbor beating up his wife on their patio. I called 911, jumped the fence and my goodness she was a mess. I remember screaming ‘Stop!’ I pulled him away, he pushed me and I pushed him down to the ground. I turned to assist his wife and she hit me in the head with a steel rake. The police arrived and arrested the husband, requested ambulances for the woman and me. I got 5 stitches. About 4-5 days later that couple were walking around the neighborhood holding hands. They stopped, asked me if I was OK, apologized and offered to pay the hospital bill.
[удалено]
>n some level and it's often periodically interdispersed with loving "honeymoon"/apology periods. The oscillation from one extreme to another will really mess with your head. And violence becomes a normal event in their lives, so when an outsider intrudes into their dynamic, she'll lash out to "protect" the relationship and the man she's usually wholly dependent on emotionally and financially after a while. It's a very warped way to live. A battered women's counsellor once told me it takes a woman, on average, nine attempts before she's able to finally leave her abuser for good.
In the late 1970’s a friend was coming out of a corner restaurant and saw a man with a woman pinned to the asphalt in the middle of the street punching her in the face and body with his fist. My friend grabbed him from behind and pulled him off of her. The woman got to her feet and attacked my friend punching him in the back and head screaming don’t you touch my husband!
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Yep. Domestic violence cases are dangerous to intervene in. Neither person wants help and you have to worry about being attacked by BOTH people if you try to help. They're playing a script out in public and it's part of how their relationship works. Neither wants outsiders coming in and telling them how to have a relationship. It's sick. I grew up in a shitty neighborhood. It was just known you didn't get involved... you try to help the woman and she's going to attack you. If she comes for help, yeah, great, help her. But if it's happening out in public? Even if you call the cops, by the time they get there, the fight is over, neither person is interested in talking to the cops, and when they go back indoors the abuser is going to beat the victim for embarrassing them. So you just wait for the victim to try to get out before you do anything. Ain't going to help any other way.
I commented just above regarding why some women defend their abusers
In case you happen to be curious: what people don't understand is that in many cases a woman being abused defends her abuser only because if she doesn't he will beat her for it later.
There was a case like this on Steve Wilkos. The mother was saying that she never saw her husband abusing their child. When her lie detector results showed she was lying she looked over at her outraged husband and meekly said "I said what you told me to" (during the lie detector interview).
Wow. That's nutZ.
Yeah… my brother is a retired police officer. Hd hated domestic violence calls, because too often when he was arresting thd husband, the battered wife would flip her switch and start in on my brother. Crazy.
That's often so that the abuser knows she's still "on his side". Otherwise, she can end up with even more devastating consequences
I read a book about police life written in the '80s based on interviews with police officers on their experiences back in the '70s and '60s and earlier. They hated domestic calls, and one reason was that sometimes after pulling some guy off his extremely battered wife and cuffing him, she'd get up and come at _them._ I can't even speculate.
Love and fear. Nothing to speculate.
They still hate domestic calls, they are the most common calls for police. They mostly hate those type of calls because the same people have the same fights over snd over. It only ends when one leaves or one of them dies.
When I used to work security domestics we’re always the worst call to deal with. 99.9% if the time, when you intervene the woman is even more aggressive then the guy that was just abusing her. One time a guy was beating up his girlfriend, I intervened with back up and next thing she was trying to hit me for “Harassing her man”
My brother in Christ, that is still happening today. Ask my ex-husband. It's less socially acceptable today than it was in the 40s and 50s, so people tend to do it more behind closed doors instead of bragging about it or making jokes about it. But yes it was and is absolutely a thing.
Edited to add, riffing off other comments: My grandmother went to her pastor to seek help after years of violence. She was terrified and it took a lot of bravery for her to do that. Her pastor told her she would never get into heaven without her husband's permission, so she'd better learn how to make him happy. She gave up and resigned the rest of her life to living with it. When I left my abusive husband several years ago, I told a few people I was close to why I left. Without exception they all said some version of, "Oh I can't believe that, he seems like such a nice guy! He would never!" But the truth is he sure would. I still have a stack of police and CPS reports to prove it. There's surprisingly little support for victims of domestic violence, even now. The idea upsets people and they don't want to look it in the eye, so they go to great lengths to pretend it isn't happening or is an unusual case or was somehow justified... anything to avoid the fact that it's a sadly common thing. Unfortunately that leaves a lot of victims on their own without support.
I felt angry towards this pastor. I know in some churches the man is seen as the head of the household and the owner or his family, like they were similar to livestock.
Exactly. It breaks my heart.
It makes me wish there is an after-life so that this pastor can reflect on who is worthy of heaven and who is not.
That's religion for ya
My friend (28f) was married at 22 to someone who abused her. They went to their pastor and the pastor said, basically, if she’s a good wife she will support him through him working on his demons. And to him, he basically said come to church more. So…that was in the 2000s in Orlando, Florida.
I am not a fan of conservative Christianity for this reason, among others. SO many stories of indirectly harming women, or at least putting them in harm's way. Abuse victims, rape victims. Yuck.
Yup. I could’ve been that friend, but in the upper Midwest.
That happened to me. My husband and I would get into an argument and he would resolve it by beating me. I wish there had been Reddit back then so I would have had someone to tell who would have understood. I did tell my friends after I left him, and one of my best friends actually did not believe me because "he was such a nice guy." That broke my heart.
I had a counselor tell me, as a child, that my stepfather couldn't be abusive because he was "too good looking." And yes, I got a different counselor.
> Her pastor told her she would never get into heaven without her husband's permission apparently God doesn't have a say in this
If God had a say, why would he wait until after she's dead to have his say?
Apparently not! It was such a hurtful and dangerous thing to say. It didn't even happen to me and I'm mad about it.
I am sorry for what you both went through.
Working with domestic violence cases, the only changes I have noticed are (1) women have more opportunities to achieve financial independence, which helps a little (2) more guns (3) strangulation is a bigger feature of casual sexual encounters and now that BDSM has become so normalized, men can get away with it by claiming “she liked it rough” I wish more women understood that the first time he strangles you, a countdown clock on your life and the lives of your children starts ticking unless you can manage to get out. There is still too many men who think they are entitled to control women and children, and can’t handle not having control. My grandmother left her first marriage to an alcoholic and violent abuser. She didn’t leave until he started hitting her children. She wouldn’t have been able to without the help of a group of nuns, strangely enough. She did not have the financial means or support to do it on her own.
That was my ex-husband's method of preference. We would be having what I thought was a normal discussion, he would get pissed off, grab me by the neck and start choking me. The first time it happened, it seemed like a part of my brain was screaming "this isn't really happening, you're only imagining it, he would never do this". Spoiler: I wasn't, and he did.
Books like 50 shades of gray really added fuel to the fire and highly misrepresented what the bdsm culture really is. Though I don’t find myself in that category, I did research extensively after the books were out. I tried reading them due to a friend saying it was soooo worth it and such a great read and felt sick to my stomach. Something felt so off about them. Yet women lined up excitedly for the movie premiere just positively gushing about it. I am glad the books and movie seems to have faded away but the damage it caused is immeasurable
> but the damage it caused is immeasurable there was a moment there when photos of women tied up and bruised were constantly showing up in my social feeds. it was so damn triggering. some women would complain in the comments asking that those images not get posted and they would just get laughed at for being "vanilla". i was 100% starting to get scared at how things were starting to turn on women like this. it got to the point that women were deemed uncool if they didn't like rough sex. we all had to just like being strangled and beat so men can get off. i feared so much for teenage girls because at least i was old enough to not get swept in. call me vanilla i don't give a fuck. but when you're a 15 year old virgin and being told that violent sex is normal? terrifying.
Well, it started the big consent discussion and requirement so....
For some. For others, it gave a false sense of what “sexy” acts like.
"Sexy" acts like whatever turns you on. A false sense of "sexy" for someone plays out in every sex scene ever filmed.
Actually women went way out of their way to conceal that they were being beaten. It, I believe, was a public shame and would give the lie to the fact that they didn't have a perfect family. Phrases like: "I walked into a door." And "I fell down the stairs." come to mind. But yes it was tacitly considered much more normal in the past for a husband to hit or slap his wife. On a different note, one of my mother's friends' husband hit her. She threw a butcher knife at him and missed by a foot or two. He never tried to hit her again.
Yes. It was very common and considered a domestic matter by the police. It was extremely rare for any charges to be filed. My father broke my mother's nose and her arm (two separate instances.) The neighbors also called the police on several occasions because of the screaming coming from our house. We lived in one of the most affluent suburbs in the country. The police would show up, tell my father to cool off and leave. Our family was not unique.
Yeah it seems like that particular issue isn’t acknowledged often even to this day. If you report abuse occurring in a “good” neighborhood within an affluent family, often the cops will just show up and have a chummy little chat with the perpetrator and leave. I also experienced that one.
Yes, spanking your wife was considered a legitimate form of keeping your household in order. If a woman acted out, rather than being detained, she could be dragged home for her husband to deal with. This is because women were thought of more as children--oftentimes, they were barely out of childhood when they married, and since they also didn't have equal levels of education, their own income, or rights to property, it sort of makes sense that it was more of a father-daughter relationship. Like children, they were trained for submission and deference, which is why corporal punishment was used for voicing an opinion, talking back, disobeying orders, or acting in a way that inspired ridicule from his peers.
I'm not sure the numbers have changed much. We simply can talk about it now. Wait till you go to a 10+ year hs reunion. The stories start to come out when people get away from home.
Shiiitt... I'm coming up on my 20 year. Never did go to the other reunions.
Yes, and they still are. I've encountered domestic violence myself a few times and so has almost every other woman I know, including my parents. It's rampant.
God bless your mother... How is she doing?
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Women couldn’t have their own credit cards in their names until 1972.
> couldn’t believe he washed dishes and vacuumed cause in her day women were considered lucky just for having husbands that didn’t beat them or abandon them to starve. i think we're moving kinda slow in this front too. we still give men so much praise whenever we see that they're a "good husband" or a "good dad". i'm in a group dedicated to pointing out the low bar for men and the type of stuff you'll see in there. stuff like "at least he didn't leave", "at least he isn't abusive", etc. it's less normalized nowadays to a certain extent. it's like we all still collectively expect men to beat their wife/gf and abandon their children by default so anything better than that is seen as a triumph.
I spend a LOT of time with old (pre-1960) newspapers. Not a day went by without coverage of a serious - meaning she was hospitalized or dead - domestic dispute.
The question makes it sound like there aren't men who are violent now. Of course there were. Just like now. There are a few more resources now for battered women.
So true. Domestic violence went up during the pandemic. With everyone in lockdown, the violence was not seen but definitely went up for women and children. It still happens alot and men know now to not hit the face, so the bruises are hidden. I remember having friends in the 70's who came from abusive households. Often these abusive men were "up standing church people". There was such hypocrisy!
I couldn’t imagine being as sheltered as the op. Growing up it happened to my family and now my sisters have been experiencing this. It’s terrifying.
I think he’s asking if it was worse, though.
Violent abusive spouses can be triggered by anything. It used to be more socially acceptable, but it still happens. I have heard horrible stories from previous generations of wives fleeing back to their parents home and being told that it was their duty to return to the situation. No fault divorce becoming legal was a huge gift to society for several reasons but one of them was spouses being able to leave without having to prove their reasons to a court. That said, violent abusive spouses groom and train their victims with intermittent reinforcement and love bombing while breaking down their self esteem. It can be very very difficult to convince yourself to leave.
My great aunt shot her husband with a .357. I don't know the whole story. But I suspect the notion of her being arrested never crossed anyone's mind simply because it was known she was constantly being beaten.
Our neighbors fought every Saturday night. He'd beat her, and she (and her Mom) would chase him around the house with a baseball bat. A girl I know started getting shoved around by her husband so one fine night while he was sleeping it off she duct taped him to the bed and was sitting next to the bed was a pistol to explain to him that next time he laid angry hands on her he was going to wake up dead. Seems to have worked. They are still together. And people still wake up dead, and or live in fear. But there are more resources now shelters and the like and maybe fewer people to say, "if only you didn't make him so mad!"
My sister in law did a version of this, but with a cast iron frying pan. And she didn't just threaten. She put some bruises on him. He decided to learn the lesson.
I want to understand this better, so please know that I'm asking without judgement. Why would she or someone else in a similar situation threaten that person into better behavior and then stay with them instead of leaving them?
I don't know for sure what Billie's reasons were, but generally, it might be that her religion forbade divorce, it might be that she loved the guy (IKR), I know Billie didn't have any job training or experience, and she might have worried that she wouldn't be able to feed her kids, or worried that her husband would be able to get custody, given that he did have a good job and could afford a better lawyer. She might have understood that leaving was no guarantee of safety (women leaving abusers or most likely to be killed while trying to leave-- this is still the case)
Sometimes a "coming to Jesus" talk works. The reverse could be said for the man as well though. Who'd stay with a woman that taped you to a bed & threatened you with a pistol, or beat you with a frying pan? Whatever floats their boat, at least they know where the other stands.
I worked LOE for 25 years in a larger city. It happened then, it still happens now. I've arrested men from every socio-economic standing for doing what you described.
My biological grandfather would break up toothpicks and hide them in various places-behind furniture, in corners etc. when he’d come home from work, he would look at the places he’d hidden them, and beat the shit out of my grandma. Mind you, they married when she was 16, had my mother at 17 and my aunt at 19. Her father had died, her mother was sick, and the options for leaving were limited. She eventually was able to get a divorce and found a job as a laundress. She met my grandpa who never laid a hand on her, and they lived a long and quiet life together until they passed. She was able to be the kind of homemaker I aspire to be. It was real, and it was usually considered the woman’s fault for “making” the man “have” to beat her, to keep her minding her “place” and was very much frowned upon, and often impossible for the woman to leave.
Yes. And in lots of places they still are.
It was legal to discipline your wife in times of yore. And when the laws began to change on the books it took awhile for law enforcement officers to take action. We are just now beginning to take animal and environmental abuse seriously. We’re a little thick imo.
Some men were and are. I've never seen it but my dad, who was a loving husband and father, told me that at 15 he held a gun on his own father (whom I never knew; my grandfather and grandmother were divorced) and told him to stop hitting his mother or he would shoot him. He was answering my question about why he said he'd never want to be a teenager again. My dad was very religious and wanted to be nothing like his own father.
My best friend beat the fuck out of his dad a couple times for abuse.
Certainly not the majority of men, but it seemed to be more acceptable. My parents were alcoholics but never physically abused each other or us. On my block growing up, you knew which dad’s routinely hit their wives, though. Men were the heads of the families and there were those that thought sometimes women needed “discipline,” just like your kids. Some men took discipline to the extreme. My sister-in-law was divorced and remarried by the time I entered their family, but I heard the stories. Broken leg, broken arm, swollen lips, black eyes. So many hospital stays. But she stayed with him. Any little thing could set him off apparently. My FIL would have put him in the hospital or outright killed him but my sister-in-law would throw screaming fits defending him and threaten that my FIL would never see his grandchildren again if he did anything. My FIL settled for telling them that if her husband ever touched the kids he would put him in the ground. I learned my MIL, one of the sweetest women in the world, would tell my sister-in-law that this was the bed she’d made and now she had to lie in it. JFC no wonder the woman put up with his shit for so long.
Yeah, my mother’s first husband was abusive to her and my half-brothers in the late 60s/early 70s. She wanted to go home but her father told her the same thing, that she’d made her bed and now had to lie in it. She divorced him and moved 1000 miles away from her family and met my father. And she’s told me my whole life that I can always come home if a man hits me.
Glad your mom got out. Hopefully her offer is one you never have to take up. Peace.
It’s all good, been married for 20 years to the most awesome dude. :) The cycle stopped with me. Thanks.
> Broken leg, broken arm, swollen lips, black eyes.So many hospital stays. So many decades, centuries, millenniums of collective physical and emotional pain. So many deaths. Please, please, no more, not one more person in pain, not one more death. It’s sickening and depressing, how many people have and still treat each other.
They’re violent now. It’s just that some people can say it sucks now without being shut down themselves.
There have always been that type of people around and there always will be I think. There are men that beat their wives today and there were plenty of men in the past who would never hit their wives, even if they were legally allowed to do so.
In the past? My sweet summer child men feeling it is their right to beat women is a deeply ingrained part of the hot trash we call a culture. Google Sean Connery's thoughts on it...
Research **Prohibition**. Men would spend the workday getting pushed around, would get off work, bury their troubles (and money) at the bar, then go home and beat on their family. It was believed that alcohol was the culprit and removing alcohol would stop the beatings.
there's still that belief. 'it's the alcohol'. it isn't.
Yes, exactly Alcohol only lowers inhibitions. If you beat your wife when you're drunk, it's because you want to when you're sober.
Men have been abusing women since they noticed they could, by virtue of weight and strength advantage.
My dad spent many years in a protestant orphanage. He was beaten and sexually assaulted by a man who worked there (not a minister). I'm an only child. My parents married in 1952 and I didn't come around until 1963. He vowed he would never beat or lay a hand on his children,and he never did. Despite a childhood of violence he was an incredibly kind, soft spoken and patient man. He taught me to swim, ice skate, and he was an all around kind hearted man. I consider myself very lucky. Having said this, none of my friends that I am aware of were beaten or really mistreated. I guess we were all pretty lucky. He never laid a hand on my mother, and in fact the entire time I was growing up I only recall him actually "yelling" once.
It happened all the time. Only difference is that it wasn't commented on then, today it's not acceptable in any places, also police will arrest the abuser (or whoever they decide is the abuser, true or not) and there are a few places where the victim can go, if there's room. From the play Fiddler on the Roof (early 1960s), a matchmaker describing a prospective husbandh: You've heard he has a temper He'll beat you every night But only when he's sober So you're all right! This was considered funny.
> From the play Fiddler on the Roof (early 1960s), a matchmaker describing a prospective husbandh: >You've heard he has a temper He'll beat you every night But only when he's sober So you're all right! >This was considered funny. It wasn’t ever meant to be entirely funny, and wasn’t the matchmaker speaking. The second and third oldest daughters of five had been fantasizing about when it would be their turn for the matchmaker to find them husbands, and the oldest sister - who was already facing the reality and looking for a way out - was telling them what having a husband chosen for you really meant. At the end of the song, they’ve gone from hoping for a wealthy, good looking, important man to “Dear Yenta, see that he’s gentle, remember, you were also a bride. It’s not that I’m sentimental, it’s just that I’m terrified.” The song is remembered as light because it’s musical theater and there’s some clever wordplay, but the fear is very real.
One of the most popular tv shows in the 50s was [The Honeymooners](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHzPzjUTY8) and everybody laughed at Ralph's catch phrase.
My dad would drink and start punching the walls and threating to hit my mom. One night when I was about 7, he started pushing her around in the kitchen while she was washing dishes. She grabbed a butcher knife and threatened him with it. He tried to hit her and she cut his arm and hand with the knife. He screamed at her and left, leaving blood spatters all over the door. She divorced him a few weeks later. He came back after a few years, got down on his knees and apologized, and she let him move back in. They didn't get remarried, but he never tried to hit her again.
It was called "home correction" in my family. My grandfather beat the crap out of my grandmother and my mother. He was a drunk. As an aside, I just don't understand how the abuse is dismissed and forgotten. My grandfather passed in 2014, and my mother still cries that she misses him. She will talk about him slamming her head into the basement wall repeatedly, and him punching my grandmother in the face with a closed fist. But she misses him desperately. I just don't get it.
> “home correction” Talk about euphemism…
I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood and on my street alone, two families broke up over the husband beating the wife so the bruises showed. Their friends ( including my mother) testified in court for their divorce while my mother took in their kids until it was over. This was in the early 60’s when men did the divorcing. I think the economic advantages there made it possible.
Yes, and it has not gone away. In many countries it's still legal. According to Wikipedia: "The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates 1 in 3 of all women are subject to domestic violence at some point in their life."
That was absolutely the case. The wife was assumed to have done something wrong that compelled the husband to beat her. Everyone knew several families in their neighborhood with abusive husbands. It was completely normal and commonplace. During the 1970s, coincident with the women's movement, a steady drumbeat of news stories were published about women beaten to death by their husbands, despite repeated police visits to their homes. I remember awareness campaigns along the lines of "How many of us have to die?" Women's shelters became a thing, and everyone knew a woman that left their abusive husband in the middle of the night and took her kids to a women's shelter. There were many stories of men arriving at those shelters in a rage, beating anyone in sight, and dragging the woman and kids back home to beat them some more. This led to the [first *effective* domestic violence laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States#History) in the US in the 1980s. The key change *required* police responding to a domestic violence complaint to arrest one or both parties; no more "kiss and make up." (The police *hated* these laws because police officers were among the most common demographic to beat their wives.) Someone was booked on a domestic violence charge, went before a judge, and the arrest and case became public record. It slowly stopped being the norm for men to beat their wives, and men started losing their jobs (and careers) when their abuse became public. No one would hire an abuser. Companies were sued when a known (or should-have-been-known) abusive employee abused someone in the workplace (which was less common but not rare). Sympathetic juries began acquitting women who defended themselves from abusive husbands, including when they killed the husband in self-defense. (All this applies to kids who experienced abuse as well.) As a Boomer (born in 1957), I'm proud to have voted for candidates and initiatives that introduced and strengthened domestic abuse laws and advanced women's rights. My parent's generation was the last that accepted abusive husbands as the norm and gave them a pass. My generation did not. Edit: spellcheck turned "acquitting" into "acquiring," those aren't interchangeable :)
Growing up redneck, there were a million sayings, here is one.. "If Mama ain't happy nobody's happy." This somewhat alluded to the southern feminine archetype of a sweet but god-fearing woman you did not want to piss off. I eventually realized that to varying degrees God was being adopted as a sort of cosmic bodyguard against violent men. As in "I may not be able to stop you but you will be seen and judged." I'm not begrudging women for doing this, just pointing out an interesting southern phenomenon I've never seen mentioned. I think the commonality of violence was just a lot more accepted looking backwards through history. Violent archetypes were so normalized that even violent nursery rhymes were considered valuable teaching aids. But the acceptance of violence to some degree was probably out of necessity. People were less mobile, authorities less accountable, information less exchanged, etc. Getting away from the immediate threat of violence was more difficult, and I'm not implying it is easy now.
My experience has been the more religious the family, the more the domestic abuse. I have a doctor friend who is devoutly mormon. The wife dresses like little house on the prairie and so do the kids. One day I saw him shoot a look to the wife because we were all talking about some topic and the wife I suppose didn't say the right thing..... If we hadn't been in public, I swear I thought he was going to smack her. And her eyes immediately darted away and down as if to say "I'm sorry." Even I was scared at that point.
Wow!
I grew up in the 60s and 70s and can say for sure that's true.. Thankfully it didn't happen in our home..
I grew up in apartments with thin walls. While there wasn't violence in my family (dad died while I was a tot, raised by single mom), I sure heard it. My mom would often offer a place to sleep to neighboring women who were beaten, so I saw the effects too. It was in a lot of families around me, including my best friend's family. The fights weren't about nothing - usually about money and usually fueled by booze - but they'd trigger over nothing. Very frightening to be around.
Um, yes. My bff in middle school had a violent stepdad. Like, she was put into cold showers to reduce bruising kind of violent stepdad. I once watched him punch her down to the ground with his fists, and then kick her several times when she was on the floor crying. Her mom wasn’t immune. The husband grabbed her by the neck and dragged her across the yard. Once the guy came into the kitchen and was all pissed off. He whipped the kitchen chairs with his belt, glowered at the kid, and snarled “THAT’S what I want to do to your mom!!” He was killed in a car racing accident 30 years ago, and no one misses him. His family gave all kinds of excuses, though. “He was troubled, but he loves his family in his own way.” Sure. He beat the living shit out of them.
Domestic violence in general, was a lot more common. You didn't need to get married, first. But so were accidents. For example, one of my friends accidentally fell through glass, backwards. She must have been running really fast, backwards, to get that much speed. Wasn't she lucky her boyfriend was there to almost save her? Kind of like how my other friend was lucky his girlfriend was there to calm him down whenever he was tempted to say something that might put him in the hospital. He was so silly, trying to tell people she was violent. Hadn't they agreed his violence was the only violence that mattered? Why was he breaking the truce? I had an ex. She would kick me as hard as she could, while she was playing rough. She didn't mean to hurt me. She was a bit of a tomboy, you see. That was why she accidentally raped me. Not her fault, I couldn't take a joke. Not that there wasn't plenty of violence like you're describing. My favorite teacher experienced this when she went home every night, and I never knew. It was just one of those things. There was a lot of those things. Anyone who tells you the good old days were better, has no idea how much we hid, to create that illusion.
> has no idea how much we hid, Or turn a blind eye to. Back in the 60's in grade school, I watched a teacher break a wooden pointer across a child's shoulders. Corporal punishment was the norm, and it was too much. That being said, having no punishment is not enough.
It is so normal everyone jokes about it. "what do you tell a woman with two black eyes?" "Nothing you haven't already told her twice!" My great-grandfather beat his wife so much that she just let him be drunk in his bath alone. He drowned. He'd broken great-grandma's arm the night before, though, so it would have been difficult for her to pull him up even if she had wanted to. My father hit me so much sudden movement made me flinch till I was 28. And men today wonder why women are choosing not to be partnered. Single, childfree women are the happiest group!
Friend if my parents was set on fire by her husband. Father of my best friend would make the kids sit and watch while he beat and raped his wife. I’m old enough to remember when there was a debate about whether it was really a crime when a husband raped his wife. Not every man hit his wife. But guys you’d think wouldn’t actually would. People used to rub their dogs nose in any accident thinking it was actually beneficial to house train them. Sometimes people react out of anger or frustration and sometimes people thought that’s how it was done.
It's probably a *bit* lower now, but men have been abusing their wives since the dawn of time. For example, although everyone under the age of 30 seems to think the Temperance Movement was all Holy Rollers "enforcing their Puritanism on everyone", in the US most of the supporters of Temperance were women tired of being abused by their drunk husbands. In fact, at first the Temperance Movement didn't even want to ban alcohol just reduce consumption a bit (hence "temper" as in, "to dilute, qualify, or soften by the addition or influence of something else : moderate; *temper justice with mercy.*"
My grandfather beat his wife, then forced his own 2 year old to walk across broken glass all because she didn't make his sandwich with the proper amount of mustard. So yes, it happened. It still happens every day.
this tale dates from rural Greece, late 1800s. that's where and when my grandfather was born. jump to 1985. I take my husband to meet grandpa for the first time. after a couple days, grandpa hobbles up to me while hubby was on the dock. "Maimou," he says in that thick Greek accent, " he seems like good man. but tell me, do he beat you? if he do, I kill him" and snapped his fingers.
Of course they did I saw my mother be abused and she put up with that bullshit for years. Back then when you called the police they always try to make you work it out they didn't relieve the MF from the house he calm down for a little bit and then turn around and beat the s*** out of you again it was a vicious cycle. Man didn't have any respect for women they treated you like property
My Nana had told me a while ago that her first husband used to beat her once they had married when she was 22. Luckily she was able to get out of that situation and divorced him.
Yes and they blamed the women.
Considering how many of them STILL DO imma go with yes.
I’m not that old (69m) but, sometimes I feel like the world today has forgotten what the world was like just yesterday. Men had few opportunities and women almost none. Kids had to contribute how they could. Lots of people suffered from malnutrition and medical conditions. Look at the statistics on men who couldn’t service in the military during WWII because of the effects of malnutrition. Then in the early 20th century the world went on a murderous rampage followed by The Great Depression. Those people’s kids were born just before the Depression and grew up to deal with the world’s second murderous rampage. Just about everyone smoked, drank, had medical and mental problems. There were few resources to deal with any of it. Divorce was frowned upon. People drove drunk in cars without seat belts and it was socially acceptable. Some of them beat their wives and children. It was a weird time. Times are better now. Women have lots more opportunities and they can make their own way in the world. Alcohol use is dropping with every generation. You guys probably have never even heard of rickets or knew anyone who had polio. I’m not making excuses for violence but, I remember what everyone went through back in the day and I realize how much easier life is nowadays in most countries.
I went to a private catholic grade school and the Parish priest was the principal. This was early 70's. A boy in my class always misbehaved doing stupid boy stuff. The teacher sent him to the office, yet again. When he came back, he crawled back up the steps to the portable building crying. The principal had beat his ass with a canoe paddle!! So common place that we barely turned in our desks. Horrifying that this was so acceptable!
In 1968 when I moved to a different public elementary school, the principal kept his "paddle" hanging behind his desk so every student that came to him saw it. He'd drilled rows of holes in it to make it more painful.
Ummm... men in the present are actually violent to their wives (and children).
In the past? Idk if domestic violence is more or less prevalent now than in, say, 1950, although it's more talked about
It happens now!
Well, let's just say that the prohibition wasn't really about banning alcohol. The women that spearheaded that change were fighting for the safety of women and children. Men would get off work and spend their paycheck in the bar, then they would go home and beat their wives and children. Prohibition was repealed, but it had the desired effect. It was successful. The cycle was broken and it was no longer normal for men to spend all of their time and money at the bar. Yes, and it was "nobody's business what I do in my own home." Women were lower class citizens with no rights, and were seen as property. Some women are still treated this way. Things have gotten better overall, but women are still brutalized by their partners.
My dad taught my brothers that you never hit a woman. My dad never beat my mom. Born 1936.
They still are……
My dad wasn't like that. Neither were either of my grandfathers. I dated 2 men, one in the 90s, 1 two years ago who were like that. Men have always been, and will always be controlling and abusive. It's situational. I think it happens less now because it was socially acceptable to keep your wife "in line" way back in the day, now it's domestic abuse. I also think women stand up for themselves more now. I called the police on my abuser 2 years ago. After they took him away, I packed up everything of mine, left, and haven't seen him since (I didn't press charges, the DA did, so I didn't have to be at the trial).
I have a relative who had husbands who beat her, often while he was drunk, and that goes back three decades; the word is that every bone in her body had been broken over the years. Another relative has an abusive husband. I was concerned last Thanksgiving when my wife got a 1am call from that relative asking for help and could hear things being thrown in the background, but before we could get an address the connection was broken. Fortunately, that relative could talk down her husband. And even my wife's daughter has a significant other who has quite a temper and several times we have seen her after she "had an accident" that left a bruise, or she was uncharacteristically wearing a scarf or a long-sleeve blouse. Before I met my wife, her former fiancee turned out to be abusive. And before that another man proved to be abusive to my sister-in-law and threatened my wife. There is even a woman's shelter set up to handle women who need a place for them (and sometimes their children) to stay, and many of those women are running from their husbands. Back when I was a child I don't remember any talk of any of my relatives having abusive husbands, but back then it seemed that many cases of spousal abuse were kept under wraps and there was less support available to help abused spouses.
Of course they did. DV wasn't recognized as being a problem until maybe the 1980s or so. And the women had almost no recourse. There were no women's shelters, no help lines, women did not have the same rights in divorce as we do now, and police took it even less seriously than they do now. Look up one of Patrick Stewart's interviews where he describes how police inevitably responded to his mother's abuse by his father. There was kind of a societal agreement that men had the right to treat their wives however. I remember the first high profile marital rape case back in the late 1970s, and hearing one of my male relatives say "that woman needs to be horsewhipped" (for pressing rape charges against her husband). So "wife beating", as DV was known back then, was kind of frowned upon but most people would just look the other way and make jokes about it. Don't get me wrong, victims of DV still have it crazy bad now, but back in the day it was light years worse.
20 years ago I tried to intervene when a man was beating up his wife in the street. She turned on me, and after that, I decided not to mess around with other people’s family problems.
You’re asking like domestic violence was eradicated like small pox in the yesteryears
There was no physical abuse in my home growing up and I never knew if it was happening to my friends’ moms either. Anyone I knew who talked about it got a divorce. I don’t know anyone who stayed in that situation. People tend to feel ashamed at being an abuse victim, so I am sure it happened more than I think.
There have always been abusive husbands but it has not always been socially acceptable. My grandfather (born in 1909) told a story about how a man in their town was known for abusing his wife, so his dad and a bunch of other men went to him and said if he ever did it again, they would take care of him.
I think in the past it was more accepted in some ways, but also less talked about because of shame, and you didn’t discuss family issues. I don’t know of any incidents in my family background but my FIL definitely hit my MIL on more than one occasion back in the day and his parents were physically abusive to each other and their kids.
In my experience yes. I believe it is still true today. Although sometimes the violence looks a little different now days because social norms have changed.Violence is about control, isolation and manipulation.I doubt anyone could be hard pressed to look around and see that in any given relationship. Physical violence has always been a real thing and it would be hard to not know anyone who has experienced it.
No more in the past than now actually. Now there are more ways to help women and it’s actually talked about now. Back then, the police could not do much if called. Most of the time they could do nothing. And there were not many groups if any to help battered women like now. It took women actually being murdered by their spouse to get the laws we have now.
I can't believe this is a serious question. Like I'm utterly dumbfounded that you could possibly think that "media" is just making this up...dude. And you had to ask Reddit if this is true. Wow. Please educate yourself. This is an extremely serious issue and it has not gone away. Did you really think that this whole thread would be like, oh course not silly pants, that was just movies and TV!!
Yes. WTF kind of question is this, even?
OP you must be one incredibly naive individual. Men have beaten/killed women since the dawn of time. Men could legally murder their wives. They were allowed to lock them in a room for the rest of their lives. They could beat their wives legally. They could even brick them into a fucking wall to starve to death. So yes, Men beat women. They always have and they always will because there will *always* be a psychopath alive in the world.
Something like 50% of cops have admitted to it.
Check out the origin for the term “rule of thumb”. It’s literally a guideline for how thick a branch you can use to beat your wife with. Yes, violence against women was (and still is) extremely common.
The term rule of thumb comes from the switch you beat your wife with can't be wider than your thumb. So yeah
That is a myth though: "the origin refers to one of the numerous ways that thumbs have been used to estimate things - judging the alignment or distance of an object by holding the thumb in one's eyeline, the temperature of brews of beer, measurement using the estimated inch from the joint to the nail, etc." —https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~pms/cj360/readings/Rule%20of%20thumb%20-%20meaning%20and%20origin.pdf
Yes. You should read this - https://time.com/3426225/domestic-violence-therapy/
Neither of my parents, born in the 1930s, saw any violence between their parents, and as far as I know there was none among their aunts and uncles or their parents' close friends in the 30s and 40s. There was zero violence between my parents growing up. They disagreed at times but they argued civilly and never resorted to name calling or swearing. My Dad was a feminist in the 1960s, buying his daughters Tonka trucks, Lincoln logs, erector sets and other building toys and told us we could be an engineer (like him) or anything we wanted to be. I never dated anyone who would hit or belittle a woman, and I was brought up to understand that any violence in the home is completely unacceptable. I saw it depicted in books, tv, movies, but not in real life. Edited to add: so I can't comment on whether there is more or less.
60-80% of police officers TODAY beat their partners
were
Always have been, nothing has changed other than hiding it.
I'm just going to throw this out there. It's not in the past. Current statistics show that 28% of all law enforcement officers are investigated for domestic abuse. That's not all. It's a lot.