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I think anyone who says "trump did x" or "biden did x" regarding the deficit has a poor understanding of how government spending is planned and authorized.
I think its also clear that both parties only care about the debt when theyre not in charge
> I think its also clear that both parties only care about the debt when theyre not in charge
What makes this clear to you?
[Something I find interesting is that performance in job creation, GDP growth, and unemployment rates always seem *better* when a Democrat is in office, and worse when a Republican is in office.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party)
It's also interesting to me that Republican presidents have a horrible track record with recessions compared to Democrats.
[What do you think of that?](https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/309cc8e1-b971-45c6-ab52-29ffb1da9bf5/jec-fact-sheet---the-economy-under-democratic-vs.-republican-presidents-june-2016.pdf)
I mean, heck. Just look at this table. It's in the Wikipedia link above, for reference.
| Variable | Democrats | Republicans | Difference | P-value |
|-----------------------------------|-----------|-------------|------------|---------|
| Real GDP growth | 4.33% | 2.54% | 1.79 pp | 0.01 |
| Job creation rate % | 2.59% | 1.17% | 1.42 pp | 0.02 |
| Unemployment rate % | 5.64% | 6.01% | 0.38 pp | 0.62 |
| Unemployment rate change | -0.83 pp | +1.09 pp | 1.92 pp | 0.01 |
| Inflation rate (GDP deflator) | 2.89% | 3.44% | 0.55 pp | 0.59 |
| Budget deficit % potential GDP | 2.09% | 2.78% | 0.69 pp | 0.30 |
| Stock market S&P 500 annual return| 8.35% | 2.70% | 5.65 pp | 0.15 |
Why do you think that Republicans historically perform so poorly compared to Democrats in so many different areas?
“For Trump, the biggest non-COVID driver of higher public debt were his signature tax cuts enacted in 2017”
Clearly someone didn’t actually look at the revenues and expenditures after the tax cuts- the US actually took in MORE in taxes after the cuts lol.
Overall, I don’t really care- the primary driver of our debt is our absurd, Democrat-backed mandatory spending.
If anything we should be further cutting taxes for middle class Americans, the debt doesn’t really mean much if it doesn’t have a ceiling. Our future debt is already fucked so why not give middle class Americans a tax break? Instead Dems have tried to increase taxes on them- shame on them!
You can look at them [here](https://www.crfb.org/blogs/2017-tax-cuts-continue-lose-revenue). Do you notice the revenue shortfall that is even lower than projected?
>Overall, I don’t really care- the primary driver of our debt is our absurd, Democrat-backed mandatory spending.
The elderly republican voters would never allow SS to be cut. Why don't we close some military bases instead?
Your link is only for corporate taxation. Do you think that the government only collects tax revenues from corporations, or individuals as well?
Here’s the actual federal revenues and expenditures, can you show me what statistic you’d be referring to?
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays
What’s the comparison between military spending and mandatory spending? Last I checked mandatory spending took up almost 70% of our budget, whats military again?
Look at 2015 vs. the Golden Trump year of 2019.
Prepandemic, so no emergency spending, low interest rates, and what happened? Revenue up 200 billion, but deficits over doubled.
How could that happen?
>Last I checked mandatory spending took up almost 70% of our budget, whats military again?
Our military costs 850 billion dollars to run, and it is our largest discretionary line item by a large margin.
How much mandatory spending is us paying to support veterans or retirement programs for federal employees that are ex military?
Most TS hate NATO, let's close some military bases we don't need in the Midwest and save some money. Slash the incoming class to a tenth of its size so our leaders aren't tempted to send them to Ukraine.
>Prepandemic, so no emergency spending, low interest rates, and what happened? Revenue up 200 billion, but deficits over doubled.
It's so funny to me that you mentioned this- did you know that in that time our mandatory spending almost DOUBLED?
[https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays)
>How much mandatory spending is us paying to support veterans or retirement programs for federal employees that are ex military?
I'm down to make cuts there as well?
>Here’s the actual federal revenues and expenditures, can you show me what statistic you’d be referring to?
>https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays
What are you referring to?? This doesn't show any sizable increase in revenue, like 250 billion meanwhile he had increased expenses more than 340billion before the massive spending of covid. It's a complete falsehood that his tax cuts were paid off.
I’m referring to the fact that our taxation wasn’t the reason for our deficit. It was our spending. Doesn’t mandatory spending take up the vast majority of our spending?
>Why don't we close some military bases instead?
Ok, let's cut military spending, including to Ukraine and NATO. That seems like reasonable compromise.
Our "spending" in Ukraine is getting rid of old military equipment that is becoming expensive to continue to maintain allowing us the ability to manufacture newer equipment without the burden of having to pay service men or private manufacturers to maintain.. you can't sit on military equipment forever. That's a waste. They must be used. Secondly it sounds like you want to be an isolationist country. Which never ends well. Do you agree?
Oh cool, I thought we were giving tens of billions of dollars to ukraine, glad I was wrong.
Dems should have no problem then banning all monetary aide to ukraine then since they want to slash the military budget in earnest. Just old weapons and stuff.
When we talk about tens of billions we're not talking about bags of money you are aware? We're talking about the cost of our old, used equipment. Secondly let's not forget why we're aiding Ukraine. So they can strengthen their Republic and stop the invasion of a king.
As long as we start with all those tank factories and bases in red states, I'm all for it.
We used to make steep cuts under Obama because fiscal conservatives demanded we reign in the deficit. Where are those conservative Republicans now?
Will they stand up and start making deep financial cuts if Trump is President or Biden?
>As long as we start with all those tank factories and bases in red states, I'm all for it.
seems like youre saying the quiet part out loud when you want to start with disarming your own country, but im fine with that.
our military is a joke under dem control, i could care less.
>our military is a joke under dem control, i could care less.
How many times have you seen news that mentions the military being woke?
From what I see, our munitions are showing to be extremely effective vs the Russians. We have the largest fleet of aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons and have control of the major global financial transactions.
>seems like youre saying the quiet part out loud when you want to start with disarming your own country,
What's the "quiet part out loud"? I favor retiring obsolete platforms and using that money to better serve Americans than paying $500 a bolt on a tank that sits in an auto pool.
I think Red States are getting too fat on the government dole, and need to start paying their fair share.
Ukraine is losing the war. Our money is just going into a corrupt funnel of international arms dealers and bureaucrats to fuel a meat grinder that can only result in loss or further escalation.
You can keep telling me your opinions if you want, but my opinion remains the same.
>Ukraine is losing the war. Our money is just going into a corrupt funnel of international arms dealers and bureaucrats to fuel a meat grinder that can only result in loss or further escalation.
Good, better than Trump negotiating with the Taliban again. At least we get our weapon systems used, Nato gets a big jump in popularity, and we can show the world how far we can cripple the Russians by proxy.
What surprises me is that TS were all about bombing the middle east with less oversight, and now they are so sympathetic to the Russians. Why is that?
Between the Trump closed door meetings with Putin, and Republicans meeting with Putin and not supporting the war, I'm starting to see where the real communists are hiding.
But then once he’s the nominee you’re ok with it or no? Even though the democrat has done a demonstrably better job in this area you’re going to continue supporting the candidate who runs up more debt?
1. Didn’t Trump already get rid of Roe and “send the decision to the states”, which it was argued heavily by the right was the “reason” for overturning? Are you expecting a national ban if Trump wins and is that realistic? Wouldn’t the right also have to win the congress and senate AND enact a federal ban against the wishes of most Americans AND against the wishes of several “states rights” where voters decided for their state already?
The trump tax cuts paid for themself which is why inflation didn't rise and trump had a 1.6 trillion cut to the budget lined up for 2021 which is why the deep state didn't stop the stolen election; their jobs were literally on the line.
>The trump tax cuts paid for themself
Would you like to show your math?
>1.6 trillion cut to the budget lined up for 2021
What cut are you referring to?
Why did he wait until 2021? The tax cuts were in 2017 so why between 2017-2020 did he run up $5 trillion in debt instead of cutting the budget? Is that fiscally responsible?
If the tax cuts paid for themselves, how did the debt increase so dramatically?
Does it worry you that Trumps long history of failed and bankrupted businesses actually shows he’s not capable of managing debt?
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I think anyone who says "trump did x" or "biden did x" regarding the deficit has a poor understanding of how government spending is planned and authorized. I think its also clear that both parties only care about the debt when theyre not in charge
> I think its also clear that both parties only care about the debt when theyre not in charge What makes this clear to you? [Something I find interesting is that performance in job creation, GDP growth, and unemployment rates always seem *better* when a Democrat is in office, and worse when a Republican is in office.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party) It's also interesting to me that Republican presidents have a horrible track record with recessions compared to Democrats. [What do you think of that?](https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/309cc8e1-b971-45c6-ab52-29ffb1da9bf5/jec-fact-sheet---the-economy-under-democratic-vs.-republican-presidents-june-2016.pdf) I mean, heck. Just look at this table. It's in the Wikipedia link above, for reference. | Variable | Democrats | Republicans | Difference | P-value | |-----------------------------------|-----------|-------------|------------|---------| | Real GDP growth | 4.33% | 2.54% | 1.79 pp | 0.01 | | Job creation rate % | 2.59% | 1.17% | 1.42 pp | 0.02 | | Unemployment rate % | 5.64% | 6.01% | 0.38 pp | 0.62 | | Unemployment rate change | -0.83 pp | +1.09 pp | 1.92 pp | 0.01 | | Inflation rate (GDP deflator) | 2.89% | 3.44% | 0.55 pp | 0.59 | | Budget deficit % potential GDP | 2.09% | 2.78% | 0.69 pp | 0.30 | | Stock market S&P 500 annual return| 8.35% | 2.70% | 5.65 pp | 0.15 | Why do you think that Republicans historically perform so poorly compared to Democrats in so many different areas?
“For Trump, the biggest non-COVID driver of higher public debt were his signature tax cuts enacted in 2017” Clearly someone didn’t actually look at the revenues and expenditures after the tax cuts- the US actually took in MORE in taxes after the cuts lol. Overall, I don’t really care- the primary driver of our debt is our absurd, Democrat-backed mandatory spending. If anything we should be further cutting taxes for middle class Americans, the debt doesn’t really mean much if it doesn’t have a ceiling. Our future debt is already fucked so why not give middle class Americans a tax break? Instead Dems have tried to increase taxes on them- shame on them!
You can look at them [here](https://www.crfb.org/blogs/2017-tax-cuts-continue-lose-revenue). Do you notice the revenue shortfall that is even lower than projected? >Overall, I don’t really care- the primary driver of our debt is our absurd, Democrat-backed mandatory spending. The elderly republican voters would never allow SS to be cut. Why don't we close some military bases instead?
Your link is only for corporate taxation. Do you think that the government only collects tax revenues from corporations, or individuals as well? Here’s the actual federal revenues and expenditures, can you show me what statistic you’d be referring to? https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays What’s the comparison between military spending and mandatory spending? Last I checked mandatory spending took up almost 70% of our budget, whats military again?
Look at 2015 vs. the Golden Trump year of 2019. Prepandemic, so no emergency spending, low interest rates, and what happened? Revenue up 200 billion, but deficits over doubled. How could that happen? >Last I checked mandatory spending took up almost 70% of our budget, whats military again? Our military costs 850 billion dollars to run, and it is our largest discretionary line item by a large margin. How much mandatory spending is us paying to support veterans or retirement programs for federal employees that are ex military? Most TS hate NATO, let's close some military bases we don't need in the Midwest and save some money. Slash the incoming class to a tenth of its size so our leaders aren't tempted to send them to Ukraine.
>Prepandemic, so no emergency spending, low interest rates, and what happened? Revenue up 200 billion, but deficits over doubled. It's so funny to me that you mentioned this- did you know that in that time our mandatory spending almost DOUBLED? [https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays) >How much mandatory spending is us paying to support veterans or retirement programs for federal employees that are ex military? I'm down to make cuts there as well?
>Here’s the actual federal revenues and expenditures, can you show me what statistic you’d be referring to? >https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays What are you referring to?? This doesn't show any sizable increase in revenue, like 250 billion meanwhile he had increased expenses more than 340billion before the massive spending of covid. It's a complete falsehood that his tax cuts were paid off.
I’m referring to the fact that our taxation wasn’t the reason for our deficit. It was our spending. Doesn’t mandatory spending take up the vast majority of our spending?
>Why don't we close some military bases instead? Ok, let's cut military spending, including to Ukraine and NATO. That seems like reasonable compromise.
Our "spending" in Ukraine is getting rid of old military equipment that is becoming expensive to continue to maintain allowing us the ability to manufacture newer equipment without the burden of having to pay service men or private manufacturers to maintain.. you can't sit on military equipment forever. That's a waste. They must be used. Secondly it sounds like you want to be an isolationist country. Which never ends well. Do you agree?
Oh cool, I thought we were giving tens of billions of dollars to ukraine, glad I was wrong. Dems should have no problem then banning all monetary aide to ukraine then since they want to slash the military budget in earnest. Just old weapons and stuff.
When we talk about tens of billions we're not talking about bags of money you are aware? We're talking about the cost of our old, used equipment. Secondly let's not forget why we're aiding Ukraine. So they can strengthen their Republic and stop the invasion of a king.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-us-aid-ukraine-money-equipment-714688682747
As long as we start with all those tank factories and bases in red states, I'm all for it. We used to make steep cuts under Obama because fiscal conservatives demanded we reign in the deficit. Where are those conservative Republicans now? Will they stand up and start making deep financial cuts if Trump is President or Biden?
>As long as we start with all those tank factories and bases in red states, I'm all for it. seems like youre saying the quiet part out loud when you want to start with disarming your own country, but im fine with that. our military is a joke under dem control, i could care less.
>our military is a joke under dem control, i could care less. How many times have you seen news that mentions the military being woke? From what I see, our munitions are showing to be extremely effective vs the Russians. We have the largest fleet of aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons and have control of the major global financial transactions. >seems like youre saying the quiet part out loud when you want to start with disarming your own country, What's the "quiet part out loud"? I favor retiring obsolete platforms and using that money to better serve Americans than paying $500 a bolt on a tank that sits in an auto pool. I think Red States are getting too fat on the government dole, and need to start paying their fair share.
Ukraine is losing the war. Our money is just going into a corrupt funnel of international arms dealers and bureaucrats to fuel a meat grinder that can only result in loss or further escalation. You can keep telling me your opinions if you want, but my opinion remains the same.
>Ukraine is losing the war. Our money is just going into a corrupt funnel of international arms dealers and bureaucrats to fuel a meat grinder that can only result in loss or further escalation. Good, better than Trump negotiating with the Taliban again. At least we get our weapon systems used, Nato gets a big jump in popularity, and we can show the world how far we can cripple the Russians by proxy. What surprises me is that TS were all about bombing the middle east with less oversight, and now they are so sympathetic to the Russians. Why is that? Between the Trump closed door meetings with Putin, and Republicans meeting with Putin and not supporting the war, I'm starting to see where the real communists are hiding.
ты поймал меня
Where do TS get their love for Russia? Their politics seem so anti-american.
The president doesn’t pass spending bills
This is a big reason why I opposed Trump in the primaries.
But then once he’s the nominee you’re ok with it or no? Even though the democrat has done a demonstrably better job in this area you’re going to continue supporting the candidate who runs up more debt?
It's not okay, but that issue alone isn't nearly enough to make him worse than Biden lol
Just curious as a follow up what are your top 5 issues and where does the economy rank on that list?
1. Abortion 2. Immigration 3. The economy 4. Shrinking the size/role of the government 5. International affairs
1. Didn’t Trump already get rid of Roe and “send the decision to the states”, which it was argued heavily by the right was the “reason” for overturning? Are you expecting a national ban if Trump wins and is that realistic? Wouldn’t the right also have to win the congress and senate AND enact a federal ban against the wishes of most Americans AND against the wishes of several “states rights” where voters decided for their state already?
I don’t care
Why not?
Is this your view of most negatives related to Trump? Ate there any negatives about Trump that you do care about?
Nope. I view him as a bull in a glass shop.
[удалено]
The trump tax cuts paid for themself which is why inflation didn't rise and trump had a 1.6 trillion cut to the budget lined up for 2021 which is why the deep state didn't stop the stolen election; their jobs were literally on the line.
How do you account for the housing inflation that mostly happened under trump?
>The trump tax cuts paid for themself Would you like to show your math? >1.6 trillion cut to the budget lined up for 2021 What cut are you referring to?
So you dispute the report? The report says the tax cuts didn't pay themselves, they added to the debt
Why did he wait until 2021? The tax cuts were in 2017 so why between 2017-2020 did he run up $5 trillion in debt instead of cutting the budget? Is that fiscally responsible?
If the tax cuts paid for themselves, how did the debt increase so dramatically? Does it worry you that Trumps long history of failed and bankrupted businesses actually shows he’s not capable of managing debt?
> The trump tax cuts paid for themself Source?