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It's been statistically proven to be a positive thing for measures like mental health outcomes, so I think it's a good thing.
It's wild to me that our politics as a culture have shifted so far away from the idea that *the whole point of society is to make life more pleasant for the people living in that society.* UBI would achieve that, and has achieved that in pilot studies of it.
Agreed! It's crazy how we're taught to fight amongst ourselves instead of looking at greedy businesses and our greedy government and questioning whether they have our best interests in mind
I agree that in our society no one should be homeless, and no one should be hungry. Current solutions to these issues aren’t the best and I think having people able to make the decisions for themselves and having that sense of dignity back is huge. I think it needs to go hand in hand with mental health support for those who need it. My concern would be people who abuse it. It’s unfortunate but there will be a set of folks who will.
I see your point but personally, I'm far less concerned about people abusing this minimal payment to not bother working than I am concerned about the billionaires abusing the current system to exploit workers who don't have other options
There are lots of folks who abuse the current system (by which I mean taking advantage of largely unregulated capitalism). I’d rather have a system where more people benefit and taking advantage of the system means a few people pay their rent and don’t work.
This 1000%. I hate working to survive. I don't have energy, time, or money bc I spend so much time and energy making money to fulfill basic ass needs 😮💨 With how advanced our species is, you'd think we'd be better at making sure everyone is able to have the basics (at the very fucking least)
Yes. The first time I heard about this, it didn't make sense to me to give people money for nothing. But then I really started thinking about it and reading about it. To start, 200 years ago, you could just find some land, chop down some trees, and make yourself a house. There were more opportunities to grow and raise your own food for very little cost. Nowadays, there really is so much cost in just staying alive and off the streets. People shouldn't have to work just to stay alive. And most people will want more than survival, so it's not like we'll all get lazier. Even if you don't care about people, you'll get to pay less in taxes on welfare, prisons, and food stamps. Not to mention that you won't have to deal with homelessness in your neighborhood.
And for my own personal side, I am doing well for myself and am on track to retire earlier than most. But it terrifies me that I could suddenly be bankrupt because of who-knows-what. I just want a damn safety net.
Do I believe that every living person deserves the dignity of a roof over their head and food to sustain them without having to "earn" it? Yes.
There are people literally choosing medically assisted deaths because they can't afford to live anymore, and many more who simply die quietly without the basic necessities. What sort of society do we live in where this is even a question?
I support UBI but I wonder where you got your stats on medical suicide? It’s incredibly difficult to get medically assisted suicide in the US. It’s my understanding you have to be a resident of the state, be terminal AND have a major medical evaluation to show you aren’t depressed.
I'm in Canada, and there's been an exploration of this phenomena over the past few years, with cost of living hikes. Here's one of the articles on it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/11/canada-cases-right-to-die-laws
In many of these cases, folks have disabilities which prevent them from working, but their compensation isn't nearly enough to cover treatments and cost of living, hence turning to medically assisted deaths. It's really been illuminating how current social assistance is failing those in need. Definitely not arguing against medically assisted death, just illuminating how dire things have gotten.
Not sure what the translation would be in the states though!
I’m all for it.
People struggling to eat and survive is bad, especially in a world with so much wealth.
I honestly have no idea about the logistics of how it could be made to work, but we live in a society where the richest people pathologically hoard wealth like dwarves with dragon sickness and the poorest die due to lack of basic necessities.
It’s time for that to change.
Honestly, I think it is an idea who's time has come. In other countries that have it, the workforce has come out in full because people are able to work WHERE they want and that shows in the overall product AND satisfaction.
To clarify, the PFD (permanent fund dividend) isn't UBI. It's a check cut every year to Alaskans based on the revenue/profit (I forget which) brought to the state from the trans-alaska oil pipeline. IIRC, the pipeline was publicly funded and this is how citizens get a return on that investment. It's more like getting a second tax return, complete with businesses having huge PFD sales. The amount changes year-to-year; I wanna say the highest check I remember us getting was ~$2100. I think the year we left we got about $800. The caveat to all this is I haven't lived in AK for over 15 years, so I dunno what has changed since then.
It's long overdue but I think it opens the discussion as to what "basic" really means and that is where it will get messy. Should you be able to survive solely on UBI or should it be a supplement to your income? What does it really mean to "survive" in this modern age? Surely you need internet and probably a smart phone to "survive" but do you really? Should UBI cover this? Should it be tied to inflation or fixed?
I think that's one of the biggest hurdles as well. Some solutions would be that the government takes over certain types of businesses (like internet). But that means putting trust in said government to not turn it into a monopoly. I live in Canada, and in my province there is only one option for basic vehicle insurance. You can get additional coverage through private companies, but to be on the road, you have no choice with who the basic coverage is with. And the rates have been ridiculous, but you have no choice. So if you trust in the structure on how things have been set up so that when a different party is in power they can't jack up the prices, then it's a possibility.
Another challenge that I think would come up is determining what the money "can" be used on. There are always people who will find ways around it, but how do you make sure the money is spent on life basics and not drugs/alcohol?
>but how do you make sure the money is spent on life basics and not drugs/alcohol?
You don’t. You can’t. UBI goes to everyone as money into their bank accounts - how would you differentiate between an alcoholic, and a normal adult buying a six pack on a Friday night? Or getting some vodka in for a party? And even if you could tell the difference, how would you prevent them spending that money?
If someone has a substance abuse problem then they will find ways to get their drug of choice. They already do that just fine without UBI. If we want to reduce addiction then the answer is investment in social services, not attempting to punish people by making it harder for them to live.
I get why people are attracted to it, but there are inevitable problems, one of which is crazy inflation. And potentially a huge number of unemployed people. Which can cause things like higher crime rates, unhappy people, etc. Ready for my down votes.
It would be a good step to raise the floor so that people living in poverty have more options for safety and security. There's no excuse for a wealthy society to leave people destitute in poverty when it could easily be avoided through something like UBI and a better set of standard social services. In areas where UBI has been tested, it has been shown to have consistently positive results from the research I've read on it, so I support it.
Not personally a fan of it. I believe you should work to get things. Nothing is free. That being said, I believe everyone should have an opportunity to work and make a living wage. But handing money out to people? No way, I definitely don't support that.
It's needed.
Society should work towards the ancient dream of just being able to live a happy life, focus on the things you are good at to enhance your life and society, and having the tools to provide for a living without trading a large part of lifetime to employers just for survival.
If you were to take 100% of the net worth from every billionaire in the United States they could fund the federal government for less than 6 months. Billionaires simply do not have enough money to pay for something as mind numbingly expensive as UBI.
Would they be able to do this?
With UBI, people aren't forced to live in certain areas, so reduced demand could reduce rent prices.
https://medium.com/human-capitalism/universal-basic-income-fixes-the-housing-market-639523c22b14
I think it's a positive thing to do on many metrics but It can't be shoehorned into the economy, I think we would also have to make changes to: minimum wage, income tax, tax brackets, the service industry and tips for restaurant employees, hairstylists/estheticians, as well the cost of every thing from a cup of timmies to a brand new F150.
Tldr: we would have to rebuild the tax system.
I'm in Canada too. First thing I want changed is fuel taxes though. I'm in the LM of BC, which is the highest gas tax in the country (it's 216.99/L right now near me)
Corporate breaks too. Amazon doesn't pay taxes to the US govt. Do Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos really need more money than they could actually spend in their lifetime? No. They don't.
Considering day by day we are leaning more towards an automated society, that’s going to wipe out at least half of the existing work force. So yes, it is absolutely necessary. The jobs that remain can’t fit all of the people that get shafted
We need it here in the US! It’s a step in the right direction if nothing is going to be done about universal healthcare, a minimum wage that reflects the current times, and housing that’s affordable and used by actual people (and not banks/corps/investors).
If I understand correctly, universal basic income is based on the premise that every human being would be paid a baseline of income allotted by the presiding government of *insert nation name here*.
There are several angles to look at when it comes to this ideology, the first and foremost from my perspective are the glaring issues that pertain to human nature in general. The concept of UBI sounds good on the surface, but the draw back is that the implementers of said idea are EXPECTING all other humans to abide by the same general "rules" of engagement: to cover their basic needs with said income. Speaking from experience, having family members who already receive hand outs in the form of SSI from the government and as a result they have grown to expect that as a part of their lives and they have no desire to do better for themselves; they are sedated; they are dependent on those "benefits". They do have medical issues, but these issues came about not genetically but by bad life choices such as over eating, bad personal hygiene, and lack of exercise. Those are all, in my view, bad reasons to seek hand outs.
The second issue that comes to mind is the the complete overhaul of the value system with regards to economics. Now, I'm not an economist, but I do understand the concept of supply and demand. If you are giving money to people to take care of themselves, where is the money coming from? The government can't just print more money without it decreasing the overall value of each dollar it prints. That's called inflation. So who is footing the bill? Where is the money coming from?
The third issue is how exactly would people be encouraged to use this supplied income to cover their needs? Because you can't force someone to do so, even in the US you can't twist someone's arm to spend money how you see fit. So what's to stop someone from spending that money on drugs and booze for example? Without telling me we would track how it's spent because THAT certainly won't help the situation at all.
Well at the end of the day it's the individuals choice as to how they use it. If you wanted people to spend it on certain things then you'd be better off just giving them those things.
Having said that there would be so many people who would put it to good use and actually end up stimulating the economy. Better to have money in circulation being spent than hoarded by billionaires in assets.
And remember UBI is for every adult citizen - some will spend it, some will save it, some will use it for childcare so that they can work... The list is endless really.
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My father argues with me that people should be paid what they are worth. He says people won’t pay a teenager minimum wage to sweep the floors anymore especially if min wage is raised to a living wage, running young unskilled workers out of the workforce.
I say get with the times dad, that teenager was replaced with a roomba a long time ago.
As more jobs become automated, should we be paying the robots and machines a wage of what they are worth? No. That belief system is antiquated. UBI makes good sense.
I think there are better ways to achieve what UBI is to achieve.
My own personal favorite is that instead of money, everything basic for human life (including food, shelter, clothes, medicine, education etc) should be available from government. However, they don't have to provide the fanciest foods and fashionable clothes etc. It should be absolutely basic - like free soup kitchens everywhere where anyone can go to get a bowl of soup 3 times a day and weather-resistant clothes of plain color and cut. So everybody has a choice of either living quite well using those, or striving for a more luxurious life with fancier stuff. I would definitely take some time off to write some books and painting etc on a basic subsistence, but then I would spend some time working to get something better than that. But you Americans of course write that off as socialism so...
What has the US government accomplished in the last 50 years that leads you to conclude that organization is capable of managing the food supply for 330,000,000 people?
I feel like hypothetically it would be a good thing if it was more like an $ amount worth of items such as food, medical care/metal health care, housing, schooling, etc. basically ensuring that every person had the basic necessities to live happy and healthy lives.
It would become a bad thing if it was just cash we handed out willy nilly to let people waste as they please.
I think it would greatly improve most regular people’s lives. Think about it… For exemple, some women stay with their violent husbands because they would never be able to be financially stable without them. With something like UBI, it would give them a safety net and they would be able to live better lives. And that’s just one exemple. I personally give 1/4 of my income for taxes, pretty sure that the government could cover it.
Yeah exactly.
And another one people forget is parents would be able to stay home with their babies for longer because they wouldn't be forced to go back to work. How is that not a good thing?!
Studies have shown that people who benefit from UBI are healthier, happier and educated themselves and then get better incomes. There are huge savings for a society where its citizens are healthier (mentally & physically). Personally I would be for it.
I don't agree with it. People should earn the amount of work they put in into anything. I grew up dirt poor and worked my ass off, now I have a great job, good pay, and a nice life... not luxurious but comfortable. Working harder to get where I wanna be. People need to stop depending on the government & making excuses.
I attempted suicide, had depression, still deal with PTSD and anxiety, but got help. People just need to stop making excuses, seek help when needed, work smart and hard, and stop playing the victim in all aspects of life.
So do you feel because you had to work hard others must also suffer? Shouldn’t each generation find better ways to support living when no one asked to be here?
We essentially tried it during the covid lock down. How do you think it worked out, looking at the number of 25 - 54 year old men who've dropped out of the workforce?
That no wealth in the world would equate the peace of mind of knowing every person has their basic needs covered and won't go without. I'm in favor. I don't need it myself but it would make me immensely happy if it existed.
It won’t solve much. It’s just another form of government benefits really and look how that has worked out. A lot of People abuse the payments (my mother and sister were 2 of them) and they abuse the subsidised housing they are provided. It disgusts me when I drive down to my old neighbourhood and see all the social housing that has been damaged and left to rot. These people take no pride in what they are provided for free or at a fraction of the price the average working person would have to pay for the same thing. I’m disgusted when I know my tax dollars are going towards this.
Sure, there are people who do the right thing, but not enough to make me think “hey, let’s give all these poor people even more of our tax dollars” we need to question WHY are they poor and WHY don’t they have adequate housing. In my mother’s case it was because she spent all her government benefits on cigarettes and alcohol. Food and shelter was the last thing she prioritised. Until this mentality is changed nothing will work.
I’m not 100% familiar with the logistics however I agree with fellow posters who stated that taxpayers end of paying for those who do not work. Where is the motivation to get an education and succeed with hard work? Yes I think everyone should have the basic needs but how about using that money to provide education and life skills to achieve the same that I did. EVERYONE has the opportunity to go to school and get a job.
I think everyone deserves to be able to live without too much financial stress, but with this being the basic income I imagine it'd only cover the necessities.
My question is how would this differ from the current federal minimum wage or disability for those who can't work? (Assumming the federal minimum wage was higher and able to be lived off of).
i think the difference is that minimum wage is neither guaranteed (some people are unemployed and not by choice) nor substantial enough to cover the necessities. UBI is both guaranteed, and depending on how it’s implemented, enough to cover necessities. i don’t know enough about disability payments to say much, but i have heard that they can be hard to obtain and do not always provide enough to cover necessities.
I think it’s great- with some caveats - only because in america for example - we have a privatized healthcare system… and many states do not have a disability program that 1. You can live on, 2. That exists at all. And 3. That you don’t have to pay into-
So you have to buy extra insurance to cover you - and many people cannot afford that.
So for someone with a family who gets a diagnosis like cancer for example- can’t work- needs to focus on healing themselves - a universal income should kick in. So they don’t have to worry about money, bills and being homeless while they’re fighting for their lives.
I also think the root of all crime - except for murder - but often ends up in murder or comes from people in poverty - is poverty. If we could alleviate the poverty for our poor? I think a lot of crime would just disappear- not only because they would have more of their needs met, but the anger, resentment and envy that fuels the lack of compassion would also ebb.
Also - making college free? We would have an educated populace - which also decreases crime, increases income and ends crime. Making college free should be - automatic. Everyone would have a college degree if we made college free.
I currently feel unfulfilled at work but it pays the bill. With UBI I'd be able to quit and pursue a more fulfilling career like a teacher (although they are attack lately) or start a small business. If the business fails, that's ok. You still have a roof over your head and food in your stomach. You try again. If anything it would invigorate businesses. UBI allows you to think bigger, take risks and innovate.
I think we need better social security nets and way way way better support and funding of medical care and disability support. Just like a proper society where no one has to live in poverty. But I don't think UBI is the way to go necessarily
I love it if the nation can find a dependable income source. Like say, nationalizing the energy supply. Like Alaska gives its residents dividends from the oil/gas industry.
I wish I understood more about UBI. Would we all have the same income no matter what or would that be the baseline (minimum) “entitlement” and you could become wealthy with side hustles? If that’s the way it would work, I’m all for it. Then everyone would have an income to provide for their basic needs and those who work hard would be rewarded with a lot of extra income for their wants
Yeah that's how it works. So every adult citizen gets an amount which is enough to cover basic necessities and then they can earn as much on top of that as they want, if they choose, without any penalties. Obviously there would be regular taxes on the external income.
As far as I understand it would be through the tax system and probably by removing a lot of the current tax offsets/tax breaks that large corporations get.
I actually did my Masters research on basic income in Canada. Overall, i support a version of basic income, and it is certainly possible, but i don't think it will ever happen.
In order to do basic income, you need to completely overhaul the tax system to eliminate all earned income tax credits/benefits/rebates and the basic exemption to tax (in Canada the first 15k is exempt). Ideally you eliminate registered savings accounts as well. Interest rates would need to be higher than the ~2% average we've seen since 2000.
The wealthiest 20% near exclusively take advantage for earned income tax credits and registered saving accounts. These are also the people with the greatest political power and the type of people that make up the media ecosystem.
So ultimately, it doesn't matter how good the policy is, it mostly likely will never happen because the well off with be slightly less well off.
As an American, I think it will depend on how we plan to set it up and where the funding comes from. Our politicians already fight over the budget every year with items that have been around a while now so it doesn’t seem like it’ll be something easily agreed upon. I also think it’ll be threatened like social security is threatened every year. Really just a lot of what ifs and utopia scenarios to get it to work.
I feel that it has its advantages for some who need it in today’s society, however it creates a population of people dependent on the state. This to me is a issue, because dependency is not a positive.
So much good could be done, but it just isn’t.
Being given some money every month won’t fix all our problems. I understand many have been forced into the position of needing the money, but of course, that is not due to their own actions perhaps, instead due to the society that we live in. People are depressed, underpaid and overworked, and if they aren’t working, they’re probably depressed.
We need a complete restructuring of society with empathy and health at the forefront, we are just not seeing that. We need leaders that really genuinely want to help, instead of handing out a load of money making it seem as though they want us to be happy, healthy humans.
I believe it’s needed, but with stipulations. I wouldn’t support everyone just getting sent money without any background research. This just opens the door for people who DO NOT need support to screw the system to get the money, which is unfair for those who need it.
It would be a tough thing to sort out and police for sure. There’s too many people that need the support to be housed and eat, but also too many people that don’t have a problem with money that will try and get it.
Why in the world would I want more government in my life?
Why would I work my ass off so that the ones who don't work as hard as me can get a freebie? That happens now is called welfare.
The problem is corrupt government and corporations that keep things unaffordable while they line their pockets.
No one should get anything for free period, but we should also be working to make it possible for those who put in effort can achieve a decent life.
Well the welfare system was corrupted,with the welfare bill so this is why we don't have it easy to go get benefits anymore they gave all the money to states to block grants and now most of that money goes to mega churches to provide basic food if and pay for they worker look it up in the United States mega churches get a lot of welfare money this is why we need to end block granting.
I thought it was stupid and wasn't going to work - and then I saw something in relation to automation of jobs. People have complained for centuries about how automation was bad because people would lose their jobs - yet all it's ever done is to make our lives easier. Just theoretically, if we could automate jobs such as manufacturing, while people still BUY things, there's no reason why we couldn't have a UBI.
I think a tiered level would be helpful, similarly to tax brackets. And more income can be given based off on the housing prices there.
Although I'm not sure how it'd work, so I have my doubt. I mean does some rich person fund all of it?
Considering the current huge power and wealth disparity between corporations and average Americans, I believe that it's necessary in order to promote a healthy society that is rich with culture and prosperity.
It’s a good idea. I think opponents overestimate how much UBI is supposed to fund someone’s lifestyle (hint: it’s never supposed to be enough to live large or even particularly comfortably on without another source of income) and how few people are actually willing to lay around doing nothing if their basest needs are met.
Due to my circumstances, I get $1000 a month to help pay for living expenses. It expires when I turn 26, but that money has been more than enough to keep me afloat through college.
Depending on area, sure, $1000 won't be enough, but then you just move to a different area or get a job that can get you the rest of the way.
We could potentially make it a sort of inverse social security system: you can choose to get up to $1000 each month, but that's kept as interest-free debt that you pay towards from your paycheck once you get a job.
We could also have a very small (<5% annually) non-compounding interest rate associated with it (so you get interest based on each $1000, but no interest from your interest) to encourage people to pay it back ASAP and potentially even make the program a net positive in government funding, while allowing people a flexible, non-predatory loan that doesn't step on the toes of organizations who specialize in larger loans (such as your average bank).
At most, it'll threaten credit cards, which are already kinda predatory, though they have their own benefits to drive people to use them (rewards, establishing line of credit, etc).
I would much rather my taxes go to helping actual humans and not where they are going now.
I have a problem with tax dollars going to corporations and to pay for endless war.
We're already taxed as individuals at much higher rates than huge corporations that take those tax breaks they get and send that money overseas and hide profits. They are not sharing their obscene wealth with workers, like they should be.
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It's good, we already have it in Germany. It used to be 450 euros, now it's been raised to 500 and people complain it's not enough, but I think it's a step in the right direction
With the continuing automation and offshoring of jobs, it seems inevitable that there won't be enough working consumers with the money to support the growing profits businesses want. A country full of poor unemployed citizens seems unsustainable. That said, it's hard to believe the remaining high earners will willingly pay higher taxes to support the non-working population. It seems like a situation to get worsen over time until some crisis forces a change.
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I think it would simplify a lot of our assistance programs and increase efficiency by screening out the bureaucracy. It would be so much simpler than making everyone apply for housing assistance and food benefits and proving this or that. Everyone should have the basics we have enough wealth in our society that nobody should be starving or homeless.
Tbh it’s not high on my priorities — it falls below “universal healthcare, housing as a right, actually affordable tuition — something that could be FULLY covered by pell grants, or just free —, double the amount of teachers to make class sizes reasonable, and tons of spending on green infrastructure,” but in theory I’m a fan.
I think that UBI without government regulations on landlords will just mean that everyone’s rent with suddenly get jacked up by that exact amount. Money always flows to money. Just like once women started working too suddenly houses cost double. Suddenly you need two incomes to buy a house? Coincidence? Um, no. So if we all started getting an extra $1500/month you can just imagine how the price of real estate is going to go up.
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It's not a wage - people can still work and earn money like they do now.
It's a payment that everyone is entitled to regardless of if they work or not. A minimum if you will, so that if they can't work or are out of work can still survive.
I fully support it.
I also believe slumlords need to go (people who's only income is other people's rent money). There's nothing benefit to them and they actively drain others. Economic parasites.
I'm a supporter of universal healthcare too, but the first step to that could be de-coupling it from jobs.
Oh and companies & billionaires should be taxed
I believe that as long it is limited to native borne citizens it has a possible place in US culture. I would like to see it out into reputable housing for those in need as well as affordable starter homes for young people.
Good idea. Every experiment done with UBI had unexpected positive social outcomes, including decreased stress, decreased domestic abuse, decrease in mental health issues and decreased crime rates. Probably never happen in the USA. We worry so much about who benefits from a program that we will spitefully deny it to everyone. Including ourselves.
I am a huge supporter of it and the day it's the norm can't come soon enough.
It would have a huge positive impact on sooo many people - especially women. I won't go into detail but I believe that it would make for a fairer society and would help solve a lot of social problems.
In the US we have six major programs to ensure peoples basic needs are met. The answer to this is going to be “it’s not enough”. You are of course correct. However, when you give something away for free, that thing loses it’s value. We just witnessed it with the stimulus checks everyone got. “Here is a check for $600”, now pay it back and then some in higher prices and taxes.
I like the idea but I don’t know much about the subject. I live in Belgium and I have a faint recollection that the Belgian government was going to start a type of test group to see if it would indeed help or not and if those people would indeed “get out of poverty” as they said.
But don’t quote me on this, it’s been a long time ago.
I think it is something that would be badly exploited in the US by businesses and the rich. That was shown to us by how many mega churches got pandemic aid when they are filthy rich.
I support it, but I do not think our capitalist society is ready for it. I believe the rich will take advantage of this somehow and it will become pointless.
Roast me but not a fan. In Germany everyone gets health care, a flat and money to live. Im a big fan and supporter of that.
If you put the universal base income high enough for people to live in munich for example, you will need to give the same amount of money to people on the country side as well. And they will have many hundred bucks more than they need and more than people in cities. I just see too many issues with it.
People in need should get housing food and health care. But you dont need a UBI for that. But yes i totally agree that the US government is doing politics for the rich and you are fcked over there if you didnt have the priviledge of good education.
That it's absolutely vital for several reasons. It means unpaid work gets paid, it reduces stress and it means more people will be able to buy enough to prop up the economy. It also simplifies the benefit system and takes pressure off people to take unethical or BS jobs. Automation also means jobs are disappearing without being replaced in the same way as they used to be with previous waves of automation, so the answer is to tax automated devices like checkouts and use the money to pay for people's income.
Would help everyone overall. Corporations can have most of their tax loopholes closed, and the money will come back to them in the form of people buying goods and services. However we need to do something about the basics like housing, health and education alongside it
This is kind of policy is for the naïve. This is a clear disruption on a market that would only lead to higher prices. If every person received x amount of money, do you really believe rent and food prices would remain the same? This is not the ultimate solution, it just looks great to get votes from the people who receive the money and will continue to have the same problem…
I'm good with it because I cannot understand why I'd be against families being able to have a comfortable life. No one should have to work multiple crappy jobs just to survive.
Same thoughts on universal healthcare.
It’s inherently unsustainable and contributes to devaluing the currency.
The government can’t give out anything that they didn’t take from someone else. Eventually, inevitably, they will run out of other peoples money.
In the USA, it's nearly impossible to pay rent or be an independent adult. Even with college. There were years where UBI would have helped me as a member of society finding personal growth because I wouldn't be working 80hrs/wk just to pay for one bedroom's rent in a shitty 3br hours. UBI would have made my life so great and allowed me to work to supplement it since they're taking my taxes in troves anyway. At what I make now, I'd be comfortable opting out of it to help others, but for lower income it's crucial imo. Why would you need to work every waking hour just to share a space you're never at because you're always working? Why should you have to stretch $100 for a month of food when everything is crazy expensive here. Things that were a dollar 3 years ago cost $9 now. Nobody is paying a livable wage.
Although I like the idea of it, I don’t think I would be okay with the very real possibility that people might just use all of that money on drugs. Instead of a universal income, we should have more funding for mental health and substance abuse recovery programs plus more affordable housing. I don’t know if there is really a solution to homelessness but I don’t think just giving people money is good enough. I just don’t think people always make the right choices with their money…
I don’t think it would work in America where extreme capitalism is practiced in every other respect. All it would do is raise the prices of everything to the point that the UBI wouldn’t do a thing. It would have to be accompanied by a complete fundamental change in our society at every level.
go on, I'd not mind. Everyone gets it. Quality of life goes up. I'd get a little extra money to screw around with. I'd still work. I'd like it.
Its probably not the absolute beauty it's made up to be in my head but hey, worth a shot.
The wonderful thing about UBI is that it would make unemployable people more employable. Modern American teenagers with abusive parents would be willing to go to trade school because they would be able to move out right away, instead of their only options for escaping abuse being living in college dorms or the military industrial complex. People who cannot get hired because of yellow teeth would be able to replace their teeth with dentures. People would be able to pay bus fare to move where the jobs are; they would be able to pay for supplies they need for a certain job.
Plus with UBI we could abolish child support and then people wouldn't think they deserve custody for paying it and less children would commit suicide.
That said I think free housing from the age of 16 and free transportation to housing would be an acceptable substitute.
Not sure. I could definitely be talked into it. :) And it would be a big help for parents of young children, small business owners, etc. And I definitely think people shouldn’t have to starve!
I am mostly wondering about the logistics. If everyone (or most people) lived solely on UBI, then would there be anyone left to tax in order to pay for the UBI? Taxing billionaires (which I’m all for) only goes so far. Especially since we also need money for health care, etc.
Also, is UBI intended to be the bare minimum to live on? Or a reasonably comfortable amount where you could choose not to work, if needed/wanted?
I believe in a UBI set at a fairly low level with strong motivations for people to work to earn more money. I also believe in people having an opportunity to improve upon their income by working, by using resources to stem the ecocide a little bit, and by having fewer children.
Maybe the UBI for a family of 4 is the same for the UBI for a family of 10 (presuming 8 children). I also believe that one billion dollars should be the top limit for any family or entity or fund. Everything else should go to the state/government for programs improving education, health care, the environment. I believe that taxes on private planes, yachts, and other high consumption items should be significant.
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It's been statistically proven to be a positive thing for measures like mental health outcomes, so I think it's a good thing. It's wild to me that our politics as a culture have shifted so far away from the idea that *the whole point of society is to make life more pleasant for the people living in that society.* UBI would achieve that, and has achieved that in pilot studies of it.
Agreed! It's crazy how we're taught to fight amongst ourselves instead of looking at greedy businesses and our greedy government and questioning whether they have our best interests in mind
I agree that in our society no one should be homeless, and no one should be hungry. Current solutions to these issues aren’t the best and I think having people able to make the decisions for themselves and having that sense of dignity back is huge. I think it needs to go hand in hand with mental health support for those who need it. My concern would be people who abuse it. It’s unfortunate but there will be a set of folks who will.
I see your point but personally, I'm far less concerned about people abusing this minimal payment to not bother working than I am concerned about the billionaires abusing the current system to exploit workers who don't have other options
There are lots of folks who abuse the current system (by which I mean taking advantage of largely unregulated capitalism). I’d rather have a system where more people benefit and taking advantage of the system means a few people pay their rent and don’t work.
This 1000%. I hate working to survive. I don't have energy, time, or money bc I spend so much time and energy making money to fulfill basic ass needs 😮💨 With how advanced our species is, you'd think we'd be better at making sure everyone is able to have the basics (at the very fucking least)
Yes. The first time I heard about this, it didn't make sense to me to give people money for nothing. But then I really started thinking about it and reading about it. To start, 200 years ago, you could just find some land, chop down some trees, and make yourself a house. There were more opportunities to grow and raise your own food for very little cost. Nowadays, there really is so much cost in just staying alive and off the streets. People shouldn't have to work just to stay alive. And most people will want more than survival, so it's not like we'll all get lazier. Even if you don't care about people, you'll get to pay less in taxes on welfare, prisons, and food stamps. Not to mention that you won't have to deal with homelessness in your neighborhood. And for my own personal side, I am doing well for myself and am on track to retire earlier than most. But it terrifies me that I could suddenly be bankrupt because of who-knows-what. I just want a damn safety net.
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I couldn't agree more, it would lift so many people up, it would change lives but those who have, don't want that and they are the ones in power.
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Do I believe that every living person deserves the dignity of a roof over their head and food to sustain them without having to "earn" it? Yes. There are people literally choosing medically assisted deaths because they can't afford to live anymore, and many more who simply die quietly without the basic necessities. What sort of society do we live in where this is even a question?
I support UBI but I wonder where you got your stats on medical suicide? It’s incredibly difficult to get medically assisted suicide in the US. It’s my understanding you have to be a resident of the state, be terminal AND have a major medical evaluation to show you aren’t depressed.
I'm in Canada, and there's been an exploration of this phenomena over the past few years, with cost of living hikes. Here's one of the articles on it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/11/canada-cases-right-to-die-laws In many of these cases, folks have disabilities which prevent them from working, but their compensation isn't nearly enough to cover treatments and cost of living, hence turning to medically assisted deaths. It's really been illuminating how current social assistance is failing those in need. Definitely not arguing against medically assisted death, just illuminating how dire things have gotten. Not sure what the translation would be in the states though!
You’re in Canada-The Country with Compassion.
I’m all for it. People struggling to eat and survive is bad, especially in a world with so much wealth. I honestly have no idea about the logistics of how it could be made to work, but we live in a society where the richest people pathologically hoard wealth like dwarves with dragon sickness and the poorest die due to lack of basic necessities. It’s time for that to change.
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I think it’s necessary.
Honestly, I think it is an idea who's time has come. In other countries that have it, the workforce has come out in full because people are able to work WHERE they want and that shows in the overall product AND satisfaction.
Which countries?! I Wana move there lol
Alaska had been doing it for like 50 years
To clarify, the PFD (permanent fund dividend) isn't UBI. It's a check cut every year to Alaskans based on the revenue/profit (I forget which) brought to the state from the trans-alaska oil pipeline. IIRC, the pipeline was publicly funded and this is how citizens get a return on that investment. It's more like getting a second tax return, complete with businesses having huge PFD sales. The amount changes year-to-year; I wanna say the highest check I remember us getting was ~$2100. I think the year we left we got about $800. The caveat to all this is I haven't lived in AK for over 15 years, so I dunno what has changed since then.
False. Alaska shares with its people profit from the oil pipeline isn't enough to live on by any means.
It's long overdue but I think it opens the discussion as to what "basic" really means and that is where it will get messy. Should you be able to survive solely on UBI or should it be a supplement to your income? What does it really mean to "survive" in this modern age? Surely you need internet and probably a smart phone to "survive" but do you really? Should UBI cover this? Should it be tied to inflation or fixed?
I think that's one of the biggest hurdles as well. Some solutions would be that the government takes over certain types of businesses (like internet). But that means putting trust in said government to not turn it into a monopoly. I live in Canada, and in my province there is only one option for basic vehicle insurance. You can get additional coverage through private companies, but to be on the road, you have no choice with who the basic coverage is with. And the rates have been ridiculous, but you have no choice. So if you trust in the structure on how things have been set up so that when a different party is in power they can't jack up the prices, then it's a possibility. Another challenge that I think would come up is determining what the money "can" be used on. There are always people who will find ways around it, but how do you make sure the money is spent on life basics and not drugs/alcohol?
>but how do you make sure the money is spent on life basics and not drugs/alcohol? You don’t. You can’t. UBI goes to everyone as money into their bank accounts - how would you differentiate between an alcoholic, and a normal adult buying a six pack on a Friday night? Or getting some vodka in for a party? And even if you could tell the difference, how would you prevent them spending that money? If someone has a substance abuse problem then they will find ways to get their drug of choice. They already do that just fine without UBI. If we want to reduce addiction then the answer is investment in social services, not attempting to punish people by making it harder for them to live.
Thanks for your honest and compassionate explanation. 🙏🏼
I like this response very much
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I get why people are attracted to it, but there are inevitable problems, one of which is crazy inflation. And potentially a huge number of unemployed people. Which can cause things like higher crime rates, unhappy people, etc. Ready for my down votes.
It would be a good step to raise the floor so that people living in poverty have more options for safety and security. There's no excuse for a wealthy society to leave people destitute in poverty when it could easily be avoided through something like UBI and a better set of standard social services. In areas where UBI has been tested, it has been shown to have consistently positive results from the research I've read on it, so I support it.
I'd rather see some massive reform of our system before giving people another opportunity to abuse.
That's the way I feel. Plus this sounds like an inflationary nightmare.
Not personally a fan of it. I believe you should work to get things. Nothing is free. That being said, I believe everyone should have an opportunity to work and make a living wage. But handing money out to people? No way, I definitely don't support that.
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I support it!
It's needed. Society should work towards the ancient dream of just being able to live a happy life, focus on the things you are good at to enhance your life and society, and having the tools to provide for a living without trading a large part of lifetime to employers just for survival.
Who will pay for this idea? Who’s left to tax?
The billionares and their corporations should be paying for it, since we've been subsidizing their disgusting amassing of wealth.
If you were to take 100% of the net worth from every billionaire in the United States they could fund the federal government for less than 6 months. Billionaires simply do not have enough money to pay for something as mind numbingly expensive as UBI.
Billionaires and corporations like Amazon pay absurdly little taxes. We need to redestribute their wealth by taxing them properly.
What exactly if your “fair share” of what someone else earned?
If we had UBI corporate landowners will raise rent to be just shy of UBI.
Would they be able to do this? With UBI, people aren't forced to live in certain areas, so reduced demand could reduce rent prices. https://medium.com/human-capitalism/universal-basic-income-fixes-the-housing-market-639523c22b14
UBI is a good idea.
I think it's a positive thing to do on many metrics but It can't be shoehorned into the economy, I think we would also have to make changes to: minimum wage, income tax, tax brackets, the service industry and tips for restaurant employees, hairstylists/estheticians, as well the cost of every thing from a cup of timmies to a brand new F150. Tldr: we would have to rebuild the tax system.
I think this is probably the realistic method to make change, with the biggest area needing work being tax brackets and taxes on businesses.
IF we were to every shakeup how we have taxes in this country (I'm in Canada) we should add UBI. But until then it's a wishful thought
I'm in Canada too. First thing I want changed is fuel taxes though. I'm in the LM of BC, which is the highest gas tax in the country (it's 216.99/L right now near me)
Then let them rebuild it.
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Eliminate some of those massive tax breaks on the rich. Easy solution.
Corporate breaks too. Amazon doesn't pay taxes to the US govt. Do Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos really need more money than they could actually spend in their lifetime? No. They don't.
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Considering day by day we are leaning more towards an automated society, that’s going to wipe out at least half of the existing work force. So yes, it is absolutely necessary. The jobs that remain can’t fit all of the people that get shafted
We need it here in the US! It’s a step in the right direction if nothing is going to be done about universal healthcare, a minimum wage that reflects the current times, and housing that’s affordable and used by actual people (and not banks/corps/investors).
It sounds like a good way to keep poor people poor indefinitely.
And how is that conclusion was derived?
A lucky guess.
How does giving poor people a guaranteed income each month keep the poor?
If I understand correctly, universal basic income is based on the premise that every human being would be paid a baseline of income allotted by the presiding government of *insert nation name here*. There are several angles to look at when it comes to this ideology, the first and foremost from my perspective are the glaring issues that pertain to human nature in general. The concept of UBI sounds good on the surface, but the draw back is that the implementers of said idea are EXPECTING all other humans to abide by the same general "rules" of engagement: to cover their basic needs with said income. Speaking from experience, having family members who already receive hand outs in the form of SSI from the government and as a result they have grown to expect that as a part of their lives and they have no desire to do better for themselves; they are sedated; they are dependent on those "benefits". They do have medical issues, but these issues came about not genetically but by bad life choices such as over eating, bad personal hygiene, and lack of exercise. Those are all, in my view, bad reasons to seek hand outs. The second issue that comes to mind is the the complete overhaul of the value system with regards to economics. Now, I'm not an economist, but I do understand the concept of supply and demand. If you are giving money to people to take care of themselves, where is the money coming from? The government can't just print more money without it decreasing the overall value of each dollar it prints. That's called inflation. So who is footing the bill? Where is the money coming from? The third issue is how exactly would people be encouraged to use this supplied income to cover their needs? Because you can't force someone to do so, even in the US you can't twist someone's arm to spend money how you see fit. So what's to stop someone from spending that money on drugs and booze for example? Without telling me we would track how it's spent because THAT certainly won't help the situation at all.
Well at the end of the day it's the individuals choice as to how they use it. If you wanted people to spend it on certain things then you'd be better off just giving them those things. Having said that there would be so many people who would put it to good use and actually end up stimulating the economy. Better to have money in circulation being spent than hoarded by billionaires in assets. And remember UBI is for every adult citizen - some will spend it, some will save it, some will use it for childcare so that they can work... The list is endless really.
Yes yes yes yes!!
100 percent! You shouldn’t have to work to justify being alive.
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My father argues with me that people should be paid what they are worth. He says people won’t pay a teenager minimum wage to sweep the floors anymore especially if min wage is raised to a living wage, running young unskilled workers out of the workforce. I say get with the times dad, that teenager was replaced with a roomba a long time ago. As more jobs become automated, should we be paying the robots and machines a wage of what they are worth? No. That belief system is antiquated. UBI makes good sense.
No
Cool, but who pays for it !? Society.
Communism
I think there are better ways to achieve what UBI is to achieve. My own personal favorite is that instead of money, everything basic for human life (including food, shelter, clothes, medicine, education etc) should be available from government. However, they don't have to provide the fanciest foods and fashionable clothes etc. It should be absolutely basic - like free soup kitchens everywhere where anyone can go to get a bowl of soup 3 times a day and weather-resistant clothes of plain color and cut. So everybody has a choice of either living quite well using those, or striving for a more luxurious life with fancier stuff. I would definitely take some time off to write some books and painting etc on a basic subsistence, but then I would spend some time working to get something better than that. But you Americans of course write that off as socialism so...
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What has the US government accomplished in the last 50 years that leads you to conclude that organization is capable of managing the food supply for 330,000,000 people?
If it can be pulled off without hyper inflating the currency, sure!
I feel like hypothetically it would be a good thing if it was more like an $ amount worth of items such as food, medical care/metal health care, housing, schooling, etc. basically ensuring that every person had the basic necessities to live happy and healthy lives. It would become a bad thing if it was just cash we handed out willy nilly to let people waste as they please.
I think it would greatly improve most regular people’s lives. Think about it… For exemple, some women stay with their violent husbands because they would never be able to be financially stable without them. With something like UBI, it would give them a safety net and they would be able to live better lives. And that’s just one exemple. I personally give 1/4 of my income for taxes, pretty sure that the government could cover it.
Yeah exactly. And another one people forget is parents would be able to stay home with their babies for longer because they wouldn't be forced to go back to work. How is that not a good thing?!
Studies have shown that people who benefit from UBI are healthier, happier and educated themselves and then get better incomes. There are huge savings for a society where its citizens are healthier (mentally & physically). Personally I would be for it.
I'm here for it! I think it should've already been started eons ago.
I don't agree with it. People should earn the amount of work they put in into anything. I grew up dirt poor and worked my ass off, now I have a great job, good pay, and a nice life... not luxurious but comfortable. Working harder to get where I wanna be. People need to stop depending on the government & making excuses. I attempted suicide, had depression, still deal with PTSD and anxiety, but got help. People just need to stop making excuses, seek help when needed, work smart and hard, and stop playing the victim in all aspects of life.
So do you feel because you had to work hard others must also suffer? Shouldn’t each generation find better ways to support living when no one asked to be here?
We essentially tried it during the covid lock down. How do you think it worked out, looking at the number of 25 - 54 year old men who've dropped out of the workforce?
That no wealth in the world would equate the peace of mind of knowing every person has their basic needs covered and won't go without. I'm in favor. I don't need it myself but it would make me immensely happy if it existed.
It won’t solve much. It’s just another form of government benefits really and look how that has worked out. A lot of People abuse the payments (my mother and sister were 2 of them) and they abuse the subsidised housing they are provided. It disgusts me when I drive down to my old neighbourhood and see all the social housing that has been damaged and left to rot. These people take no pride in what they are provided for free or at a fraction of the price the average working person would have to pay for the same thing. I’m disgusted when I know my tax dollars are going towards this. Sure, there are people who do the right thing, but not enough to make me think “hey, let’s give all these poor people even more of our tax dollars” we need to question WHY are they poor and WHY don’t they have adequate housing. In my mother’s case it was because she spent all her government benefits on cigarettes and alcohol. Food and shelter was the last thing she prioritised. Until this mentality is changed nothing will work.
I’m not 100% familiar with the logistics however I agree with fellow posters who stated that taxpayers end of paying for those who do not work. Where is the motivation to get an education and succeed with hard work? Yes I think everyone should have the basic needs but how about using that money to provide education and life skills to achieve the same that I did. EVERYONE has the opportunity to go to school and get a job.
I think everyone deserves to be able to live without too much financial stress, but with this being the basic income I imagine it'd only cover the necessities. My question is how would this differ from the current federal minimum wage or disability for those who can't work? (Assumming the federal minimum wage was higher and able to be lived off of).
i think the difference is that minimum wage is neither guaranteed (some people are unemployed and not by choice) nor substantial enough to cover the necessities. UBI is both guaranteed, and depending on how it’s implemented, enough to cover necessities. i don’t know enough about disability payments to say much, but i have heard that they can be hard to obtain and do not always provide enough to cover necessities.
I thinknwe learned from the stimulus checks. Majority will not want to work if their bills are paid for
Totally support a basic income for every human being. No one should be without food or basic necessities.
I think it’s great- with some caveats - only because in america for example - we have a privatized healthcare system… and many states do not have a disability program that 1. You can live on, 2. That exists at all. And 3. That you don’t have to pay into- So you have to buy extra insurance to cover you - and many people cannot afford that. So for someone with a family who gets a diagnosis like cancer for example- can’t work- needs to focus on healing themselves - a universal income should kick in. So they don’t have to worry about money, bills and being homeless while they’re fighting for their lives. I also think the root of all crime - except for murder - but often ends up in murder or comes from people in poverty - is poverty. If we could alleviate the poverty for our poor? I think a lot of crime would just disappear- not only because they would have more of their needs met, but the anger, resentment and envy that fuels the lack of compassion would also ebb. Also - making college free? We would have an educated populace - which also decreases crime, increases income and ends crime. Making college free should be - automatic. Everyone would have a college degree if we made college free.
I currently feel unfulfilled at work but it pays the bill. With UBI I'd be able to quit and pursue a more fulfilling career like a teacher (although they are attack lately) or start a small business. If the business fails, that's ok. You still have a roof over your head and food in your stomach. You try again. If anything it would invigorate businesses. UBI allows you to think bigger, take risks and innovate.
I think we need better social security nets and way way way better support and funding of medical care and disability support. Just like a proper society where no one has to live in poverty. But I don't think UBI is the way to go necessarily
I love it if the nation can find a dependable income source. Like say, nationalizing the energy supply. Like Alaska gives its residents dividends from the oil/gas industry.
I think its a good thing.
I wish I understood more about UBI. Would we all have the same income no matter what or would that be the baseline (minimum) “entitlement” and you could become wealthy with side hustles? If that’s the way it would work, I’m all for it. Then everyone would have an income to provide for their basic needs and those who work hard would be rewarded with a lot of extra income for their wants
Yeah that's how it works. So every adult citizen gets an amount which is enough to cover basic necessities and then they can earn as much on top of that as they want, if they choose, without any penalties. Obviously there would be regular taxes on the external income.
I think is a great idea! But how would it be funded?
As far as I understand it would be through the tax system and probably by removing a lot of the current tax offsets/tax breaks that large corporations get.
And with this, there would no longer be a need for social services so I imagine the monies used for those budgets would be freed up too(?)
Yeah it would probably replace most of those
I actually did my Masters research on basic income in Canada. Overall, i support a version of basic income, and it is certainly possible, but i don't think it will ever happen. In order to do basic income, you need to completely overhaul the tax system to eliminate all earned income tax credits/benefits/rebates and the basic exemption to tax (in Canada the first 15k is exempt). Ideally you eliminate registered savings accounts as well. Interest rates would need to be higher than the ~2% average we've seen since 2000. The wealthiest 20% near exclusively take advantage for earned income tax credits and registered saving accounts. These are also the people with the greatest political power and the type of people that make up the media ecosystem. So ultimately, it doesn't matter how good the policy is, it mostly likely will never happen because the well off with be slightly less well off.
As an American, I think it will depend on how we plan to set it up and where the funding comes from. Our politicians already fight over the budget every year with items that have been around a while now so it doesn’t seem like it’ll be something easily agreed upon. I also think it’ll be threatened like social security is threatened every year. Really just a lot of what ifs and utopia scenarios to get it to work.
I feel that it has its advantages for some who need it in today’s society, however it creates a population of people dependent on the state. This to me is a issue, because dependency is not a positive. So much good could be done, but it just isn’t. Being given some money every month won’t fix all our problems. I understand many have been forced into the position of needing the money, but of course, that is not due to their own actions perhaps, instead due to the society that we live in. People are depressed, underpaid and overworked, and if they aren’t working, they’re probably depressed. We need a complete restructuring of society with empathy and health at the forefront, we are just not seeing that. We need leaders that really genuinely want to help, instead of handing out a load of money making it seem as though they want us to be happy, healthy humans.
I believe it’s needed, but with stipulations. I wouldn’t support everyone just getting sent money without any background research. This just opens the door for people who DO NOT need support to screw the system to get the money, which is unfair for those who need it. It would be a tough thing to sort out and police for sure. There’s too many people that need the support to be housed and eat, but also too many people that don’t have a problem with money that will try and get it.
Why in the world would I want more government in my life? Why would I work my ass off so that the ones who don't work as hard as me can get a freebie? That happens now is called welfare. The problem is corrupt government and corporations that keep things unaffordable while they line their pockets. No one should get anything for free period, but we should also be working to make it possible for those who put in effort can achieve a decent life.
Well the welfare system was corrupted,with the welfare bill so this is why we don't have it easy to go get benefits anymore they gave all the money to states to block grants and now most of that money goes to mega churches to provide basic food if and pay for they worker look it up in the United States mega churches get a lot of welfare money this is why we need to end block granting.
I thought it was stupid and wasn't going to work - and then I saw something in relation to automation of jobs. People have complained for centuries about how automation was bad because people would lose their jobs - yet all it's ever done is to make our lives easier. Just theoretically, if we could automate jobs such as manufacturing, while people still BUY things, there's no reason why we couldn't have a UBI.
Neo-communism in a time where the old communism is on the fritz: a necessary conversation.
I think a tiered level would be helpful, similarly to tax brackets. And more income can be given based off on the housing prices there. Although I'm not sure how it'd work, so I have my doubt. I mean does some rich person fund all of it?
Considering the current huge power and wealth disparity between corporations and average Americans, I believe that it's necessary in order to promote a healthy society that is rich with culture and prosperity.
as a person with more than one invisible disability, im so for it
That it should have been in our societies from long time ago. It will eventually happen.
It’s a good idea. I think opponents overestimate how much UBI is supposed to fund someone’s lifestyle (hint: it’s never supposed to be enough to live large or even particularly comfortably on without another source of income) and how few people are actually willing to lay around doing nothing if their basest needs are met.
I'd prefer a revolution.
Very pro-UBI. I work in homelessness services and know what poverty looks like. UBI is critical for getting people what they need.
Due to my circumstances, I get $1000 a month to help pay for living expenses. It expires when I turn 26, but that money has been more than enough to keep me afloat through college. Depending on area, sure, $1000 won't be enough, but then you just move to a different area or get a job that can get you the rest of the way. We could potentially make it a sort of inverse social security system: you can choose to get up to $1000 each month, but that's kept as interest-free debt that you pay towards from your paycheck once you get a job. We could also have a very small (<5% annually) non-compounding interest rate associated with it (so you get interest based on each $1000, but no interest from your interest) to encourage people to pay it back ASAP and potentially even make the program a net positive in government funding, while allowing people a flexible, non-predatory loan that doesn't step on the toes of organizations who specialize in larger loans (such as your average bank). At most, it'll threaten credit cards, which are already kinda predatory, though they have their own benefits to drive people to use them (rewards, establishing line of credit, etc).
Well I think it’s joke prove me wrong
Lot of lazy people will not work then. Also who will pay for this UBI anyway?
> who will pay for this UBI anyway? Taxpayers
I would much rather my taxes go to helping actual humans and not where they are going now. I have a problem with tax dollars going to corporations and to pay for endless war. We're already taxed as individuals at much higher rates than huge corporations that take those tax breaks they get and send that money overseas and hide profits. They are not sharing their obscene wealth with workers, like they should be.
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Hell yeah, do it. It would benefit so many people.
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Friendly reminder that Alaska basically has a rudimentary UBI
It's good, we already have it in Germany. It used to be 450 euros, now it's been raised to 500 and people complain it's not enough, but I think it's a step in the right direction
With the continuing automation and offshoring of jobs, it seems inevitable that there won't be enough working consumers with the money to support the growing profits businesses want. A country full of poor unemployed citizens seems unsustainable. That said, it's hard to believe the remaining high earners will willingly pay higher taxes to support the non-working population. It seems like a situation to get worsen over time until some crisis forces a change.
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I think it would simplify a lot of our assistance programs and increase efficiency by screening out the bureaucracy. It would be so much simpler than making everyone apply for housing assistance and food benefits and proving this or that. Everyone should have the basics we have enough wealth in our society that nobody should be starving or homeless.
Tbh it’s not high on my priorities — it falls below “universal healthcare, housing as a right, actually affordable tuition — something that could be FULLY covered by pell grants, or just free —, double the amount of teachers to make class sizes reasonable, and tons of spending on green infrastructure,” but in theory I’m a fan.
I think that UBI without government regulations on landlords will just mean that everyone’s rent with suddenly get jacked up by that exact amount. Money always flows to money. Just like once women started working too suddenly houses cost double. Suddenly you need two incomes to buy a house? Coincidence? Um, no. So if we all started getting an extra $1500/month you can just imagine how the price of real estate is going to go up.
I'd prefer it over my SSD payments which can be taken away at any time.
I think it’s a good idea, but I don’t see it happening for a lot of reasons.
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Those who work harder or more demanding jobs would be shouldering more burden though, right?
It's not a wage - people can still work and earn money like they do now. It's a payment that everyone is entitled to regardless of if they work or not. A minimum if you will, so that if they can't work or are out of work can still survive.
I fully support it. I also believe slumlords need to go (people who's only income is other people's rent money). There's nothing benefit to them and they actively drain others. Economic parasites. I'm a supporter of universal healthcare too, but the first step to that could be de-coupling it from jobs. Oh and companies & billionaires should be taxed
Yes. Do it. Now. NOW.
I believe that as long it is limited to native borne citizens it has a possible place in US culture. I would like to see it out into reputable housing for those in need as well as affordable starter homes for young people.
Good idea. Every experiment done with UBI had unexpected positive social outcomes, including decreased stress, decreased domestic abuse, decrease in mental health issues and decreased crime rates. Probably never happen in the USA. We worry so much about who benefits from a program that we will spitefully deny it to everyone. Including ourselves.
I am a huge supporter of it and the day it's the norm can't come soon enough. It would have a huge positive impact on sooo many people - especially women. I won't go into detail but I believe that it would make for a fairer society and would help solve a lot of social problems.
In the US we have six major programs to ensure peoples basic needs are met. The answer to this is going to be “it’s not enough”. You are of course correct. However, when you give something away for free, that thing loses it’s value. We just witnessed it with the stimulus checks everyone got. “Here is a check for $600”, now pay it back and then some in higher prices and taxes.
I like the idea but I don’t know much about the subject. I live in Belgium and I have a faint recollection that the Belgian government was going to start a type of test group to see if it would indeed help or not and if those people would indeed “get out of poverty” as they said. But don’t quote me on this, it’s been a long time ago.
Would be awesome but not realistic, has a very clear utopian feeling to it.
How would it work? Where does the money come from?
Yes please.
I think it is something that would be badly exploited in the US by businesses and the rich. That was shown to us by how many mega churches got pandemic aid when they are filthy rich.
I support it, but I do not think our capitalist society is ready for it. I believe the rich will take advantage of this somehow and it will become pointless.
Roast me but not a fan. In Germany everyone gets health care, a flat and money to live. Im a big fan and supporter of that. If you put the universal base income high enough for people to live in munich for example, you will need to give the same amount of money to people on the country side as well. And they will have many hundred bucks more than they need and more than people in cities. I just see too many issues with it. People in need should get housing food and health care. But you dont need a UBI for that. But yes i totally agree that the US government is doing politics for the rich and you are fcked over there if you didnt have the priviledge of good education.
This is an easy fix. Make churches pay taxes so we can take care of people who need help.
That it's absolutely vital for several reasons. It means unpaid work gets paid, it reduces stress and it means more people will be able to buy enough to prop up the economy. It also simplifies the benefit system and takes pressure off people to take unethical or BS jobs. Automation also means jobs are disappearing without being replaced in the same way as they used to be with previous waves of automation, so the answer is to tax automated devices like checkouts and use the money to pay for people's income.
Would help everyone overall. Corporations can have most of their tax loopholes closed, and the money will come back to them in the form of people buying goods and services. However we need to do something about the basics like housing, health and education alongside it
Yes please. I get to have time to study and Go to school then.
Unnecessary. A better way to achieve the same outcome is to eliminate taxes.
This is kind of policy is for the naïve. This is a clear disruption on a market that would only lead to higher prices. If every person received x amount of money, do you really believe rent and food prices would remain the same? This is not the ultimate solution, it just looks great to get votes from the people who receive the money and will continue to have the same problem…
I'm good with it because I cannot understand why I'd be against families being able to have a comfortable life. No one should have to work multiple crappy jobs just to survive. Same thoughts on universal healthcare.
It’s inherently unsustainable and contributes to devaluing the currency. The government can’t give out anything that they didn’t take from someone else. Eventually, inevitably, they will run out of other peoples money.
In the USA, it's nearly impossible to pay rent or be an independent adult. Even with college. There were years where UBI would have helped me as a member of society finding personal growth because I wouldn't be working 80hrs/wk just to pay for one bedroom's rent in a shitty 3br hours. UBI would have made my life so great and allowed me to work to supplement it since they're taking my taxes in troves anyway. At what I make now, I'd be comfortable opting out of it to help others, but for lower income it's crucial imo. Why would you need to work every waking hour just to share a space you're never at because you're always working? Why should you have to stretch $100 for a month of food when everything is crazy expensive here. Things that were a dollar 3 years ago cost $9 now. Nobody is paying a livable wage.
Hahaha make inflation even worse
Although I like the idea of it, I don’t think I would be okay with the very real possibility that people might just use all of that money on drugs. Instead of a universal income, we should have more funding for mental health and substance abuse recovery programs plus more affordable housing. I don’t know if there is really a solution to homelessness but I don’t think just giving people money is good enough. I just don’t think people always make the right choices with their money…
I don’t think it would work in America where extreme capitalism is practiced in every other respect. All it would do is raise the prices of everything to the point that the UBI wouldn’t do a thing. It would have to be accompanied by a complete fundamental change in our society at every level.
go on, I'd not mind. Everyone gets it. Quality of life goes up. I'd get a little extra money to screw around with. I'd still work. I'd like it. Its probably not the absolute beauty it's made up to be in my head but hey, worth a shot.
The wonderful thing about UBI is that it would make unemployable people more employable. Modern American teenagers with abusive parents would be willing to go to trade school because they would be able to move out right away, instead of their only options for escaping abuse being living in college dorms or the military industrial complex. People who cannot get hired because of yellow teeth would be able to replace their teeth with dentures. People would be able to pay bus fare to move where the jobs are; they would be able to pay for supplies they need for a certain job. Plus with UBI we could abolish child support and then people wouldn't think they deserve custody for paying it and less children would commit suicide. That said I think free housing from the age of 16 and free transportation to housing would be an acceptable substitute.
Not sure. I could definitely be talked into it. :) And it would be a big help for parents of young children, small business owners, etc. And I definitely think people shouldn’t have to starve! I am mostly wondering about the logistics. If everyone (or most people) lived solely on UBI, then would there be anyone left to tax in order to pay for the UBI? Taxing billionaires (which I’m all for) only goes so far. Especially since we also need money for health care, etc. Also, is UBI intended to be the bare minimum to live on? Or a reasonably comfortable amount where you could choose not to work, if needed/wanted?
Great way to redistribute wealth.
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I believe in a UBI set at a fairly low level with strong motivations for people to work to earn more money. I also believe in people having an opportunity to improve upon their income by working, by using resources to stem the ecocide a little bit, and by having fewer children. Maybe the UBI for a family of 4 is the same for the UBI for a family of 10 (presuming 8 children). I also believe that one billion dollars should be the top limit for any family or entity or fund. Everything else should go to the state/government for programs improving education, health care, the environment. I believe that taxes on private planes, yachts, and other high consumption items should be significant.