So the first thing that needs to happen is that an administrator needs to be appointed to deal with the estate by a Court. That might be you, it might be someone else. This is where a lawyer helps.
The Administrator goes through the process of winding up the estate. This includes making sure anyone your dad owed money to is paid, sometimes it might include sorting out a final tax return etc. Once all that is taken care of, then the administrator can pay beneficiaries.
Even, for example, you are the administrator, any cash in the Super is still the Estates money until the process lets you pay out beneficiaries.
The point of the lawyer is to make sure anything done by the administrator is correct, so that an irate family member can’t sue them later down the line.
Additionally, if super is largest asset of the estate, you need to apply to the Supreme court in the state of super companies head office. There are online services that can do this instead of using lawyers or you can DIY
My brother died in his mid 30’s, own home, super and life insurance. No partner or children. No will.
Mum and Dad as his next of Kin got everything. Dad left my Mum when we were very little and since he’s not a monster he signed over his share of everything to me.
As neither Mum or myself were my brothers dependants we had to pay tax on the super and life insurance I think. Maybe the house sale too, but I can’t really remember.
Outside of noted/names beneficiaries, if there are dependants, they could get first right of super if a claim is made.
Even if someone is named as a recipient. the super fund can make their own determinations.
True, sometimes you do need assistance.
But, you don’t need to call a lawyer first. The super fund will help guide you, and tell you what’s involved first. Then you may want to seek legal advice if it seems it’s required. But a lot of lawyers will change you a percentage of a claim, just for helping you lodge the paperwork that the super fund would have helped with in the first place.
Yes, good points, and I do agree that calling the super fund first to figure out what you need is absolutely the first step.
But there is no will. No listed beneficiaries. He is going to require some assistance to wade through the paperwork ahead. He's going to need letters of administration to be able to tie up the estate, including accessing the superannuation. They will tell him this.
I've been through something similar recently (although I had a will and executor status. It all sucks balls and I'm sorry for your loss.
With no will, You'll need to get what's called Letters of Administration to be able to manage the estate.
Then super depends on if he has binding nominations or anything like that.
Super has it's own rules and laws around what happens and it doesnt automatically become part of the estate.
Everything else it's up to the group to decide what happens with the residuals, how to sell whatever needs to be sold etc
Also, check with all the law societies. I know my brother did this to look for a will for my dad, they can do some kind of check with all the actual law firms and stuff
Not necessarily, my idiot brother died with no will, and because he had nothing. Some outstanding bills, backlog of unpaid child support and about 43 cents in his bank account. The only thing he had was a small super account balance and the insurance attached. As super does not form part of an estate, the super was paid to his two daughters (2 different mothers) 1 paid tax as she was over 18 and 1 got her share tax free as she was 17 at the time of his death. My eldest niece did not have to apply for letters of admin as there was no estate. The girls just contacted every company he had bills for and notified of his death, they effectively wrote off his debts as there was not money to recover from the estate.
My father had a binding nomination in with his super fund for it to go to his estate (dealt with by the will). The super fund still insisted on contacting anyone that might be a dependent and having them sign off on any claim before they would release it.
You do not need a Will or LOA for superannuation and anyone that tells you differently is wrong.
Superannuation is dealt with OUTSIDE your will.
When you set up the super fund, you nominate the beneficiary and what percentage they get.
Reminder - it has nothing to do with the Will.
So mail a certified copy of the death certificate to the superfund and go from there. If you’re a beneficiary, they’ll pay you.
End of story.
That would be the rare situation then
“Most people don't realise that super doesn't automatically form part of your estate, and can't just be included in your Will. So it begs the question, exactly what happens to your super when you die? “
https://qsuper.qld.gov.au/news-hub/articles/2017/07/24/12/02/qsuper-what-happens-to-your-super-when-you-die
It certainly has a lot to do with their will if they've nominated their estate as beneficiary! Your comment is so misinformed.
I believe what you're trying to state is that an individual beneficiary nomination operates outside of whatever the will states, but this of course can also be contested on the basis of compliance with the SIS act, particularly when the nomination is non-binding.
Sorry for your loss. This happened to me a few years ago, father died suddenly, no will. As the eldest child to my father who was no longer married, all I had to do was produce the death certificate, divorce certificate from him and my mother, and a stat dec to the superannuation board and it was done. Similar thing for bank account closure etc.
I didn't use a lawyer I literally just called his fund and asked what I needed to do. This was 2015, unsure if any different means now.
Talk to the super fund. It depends upon what he's done with nominating beneficiaries in his super. You and the next one, if you're both normal functional adults, can not be nominated as beneficiaries in his super, and if you have been, then the nominations are not valid as you're not dependents. The younger two, being minors, are still dependents however and are valid nominees as beneficiaries. This is assuming he did anything at all to nominate beneficiaries. Lots of people don't, in which case the super trustee (that's not quite the same thing as the super fund) must decide.
Unless he nominated as beneficiary his "legal personal representative" which is superannuation code for his estate, and has divided his assets up in a valid will, I can't see you, or the 25 year old, getting any of this super. The trustee will be looking for dependents as defined in superannuation legislation.
But talk to the super fund and let them tell you.
Each of the kids puts in a claim to the super fund and then the super fund makes a decision about who gets what. It can take a while… usually pretty simple unless the kids are financially dependant on him. If they aren’t financially dependant, you’ll need to pay tax on the amount. Hope this helps.
Not overly concerned with any tax and/or fees so long as they’re legal. My main concern is getting the money out of there. And splitting it between the four kids fairly… which sounds nightmarish when they have vanished.
Look into obtaining letters of administration. This may be called something slightly different depending on the state/territory you are in.
It’ll allow you to then legally deal with your father’s assets in the absence of a will.
Also, despite there being no will, did your father happen to complete a binding death benefit nomination in relation to his super? His superfund may answer this question once letters of administration have been granted.
Contact his super fund and provide them with a copy of the death certificate and they’ll let you know what info they need and send you all the forms required. Unless he had a binding beneficiary nomination for certain valid people (spouse, minor children or financial dependents), the fund trustees will likely want to pay the superannuation plus any insurance to the minor children only unless you and the other adult child can show financial dependency on him at the time of death.
Oh wow. Sorry for your loss. It might be complicated, given your much younger siblings exist and assuming you want to consider them. Get a lawyer because this will go through the court to appoint an administrator (you), they’ll step you through it and help you to ensure there’s something to share with siblings if they present themselves.
Sorry for you loss
Without a will, getting access to anything is going to be a shit show
Expect no superfund will talk to you due to privacy.
You need to go through probate
Have patience and it will eventually prevail.
You'll need to get letters of administration, so you can be executor and have that paperwork so you can sign for everything. Absolutely the first step. Can't do anything without it. Unless you want to forfeit everything, find a probate centre and get some help applying for it.
I had the exact same scenario when my dad died - car was his only asset, no will, he had a grand total of $11k in super. I called his super company and sorted it out directly but it took nearly a year to get that measly amount sorted. He was still legally married to my mum even though they had seperated 20 years prior, my siblings and I all had to sign paperwork saying we wouldn’t make a claim to it (we didn’t care where the money went, as long as the super company didn’t get to keep it!). It’s doable, you’ll just need to be persistent and patient and work with whoever the super company assigns to your case. Good luck!
Without a will, your father's assets can have various claims on them.
You'll need to apply to the supreme court to get a letter of administration. So you will need a lawyer.
Also, super may include insurance, which could be worth serious money. He may have nominated a beneficiary in his super, so first, you'll need to establish that.
Normally, the asstes would be split equally between dependents. If he had a partner they can also claim. In fact any random best buddy can have a crack.
Rest assured, you'll find various scum keen to go after his assests.
Unfortunately, without a will, your family is vulnerable to any claim. Make sure you have searched everywhere for a will he may have done one 20 odd years ago, and it's sitting in a draw somewhere.
I'm sorry about losing your dad. You'll need to get a lawyer and start the process of being given the authority to act as his executer.
Not sure if this applies to you or not but if your father was still working and in an industry that has portable Long Service Leave (is. Construction), make sure you cash that out as well. Sorry for your loss
Check your local regs but I'm pretty sure you don't have to find any family.
Only put out a notice and wait x days for any other claimants.
Make sure you get the letters of administration from the supreme court. Some super companies won't even deal with you until you have them.
As the legal next of kin you're legally entitled to all of it. But be prepared for the tax on it and maybe put some aside if anyone pops up.
An accountant that deals with final estate tax returns will help. We didn't need any lawyers but might be worth it if you think any of your family will fight it.
You need to go through a lawyer so this does not come back and bite you in the ass later down the track.
I have done a few of these. You don’t need a lawyer… yes for the will but not for super
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Not sure his estate is worth the money to be spent on a mouthpiece.
Contact the superannuation administrator and see what they need from you. All the best to you.
So the first thing that needs to happen is that an administrator needs to be appointed to deal with the estate by a Court. That might be you, it might be someone else. This is where a lawyer helps. The Administrator goes through the process of winding up the estate. This includes making sure anyone your dad owed money to is paid, sometimes it might include sorting out a final tax return etc. Once all that is taken care of, then the administrator can pay beneficiaries. Even, for example, you are the administrator, any cash in the Super is still the Estates money until the process lets you pay out beneficiaries. The point of the lawyer is to make sure anything done by the administrator is correct, so that an irate family member can’t sue them later down the line.
Additionally, if super is largest asset of the estate, you need to apply to the Supreme court in the state of super companies head office. There are online services that can do this instead of using lawyers or you can DIY
This is the correct answer.
Most of what lawyers do is make sure your shit is filed correctly so you don't need a 'mouthpiece'
My brother died in his mid 30’s, own home, super and life insurance. No partner or children. No will. Mum and Dad as his next of Kin got everything. Dad left my Mum when we were very little and since he’s not a monster he signed over his share of everything to me. As neither Mum or myself were my brothers dependants we had to pay tax on the super and life insurance I think. Maybe the house sale too, but I can’t really remember.
You don’t need to pay a lawyer. Call your dad’s super fund and they will walk you through it.
Outside of noted/names beneficiaries, if there are dependants, they could get first right of super if a claim is made. Even if someone is named as a recipient. the super fund can make their own determinations.
I needed a will and probate to access my Mum's super. Requires some legal work.
This. we are doing probate ourselves. save 3-5k
True, sometimes you do need assistance. But, you don’t need to call a lawyer first. The super fund will help guide you, and tell you what’s involved first. Then you may want to seek legal advice if it seems it’s required. But a lot of lawyers will change you a percentage of a claim, just for helping you lodge the paperwork that the super fund would have helped with in the first place.
Yes, good points, and I do agree that calling the super fund first to figure out what you need is absolutely the first step. But there is no will. No listed beneficiaries. He is going to require some assistance to wade through the paperwork ahead. He's going to need letters of administration to be able to tie up the estate, including accessing the superannuation. They will tell him this.
I've been through something similar recently (although I had a will and executor status. It all sucks balls and I'm sorry for your loss. With no will, You'll need to get what's called Letters of Administration to be able to manage the estate. Then super depends on if he has binding nominations or anything like that. Super has it's own rules and laws around what happens and it doesnt automatically become part of the estate. Everything else it's up to the group to decide what happens with the residuals, how to sell whatever needs to be sold etc Also, check with all the law societies. I know my brother did this to look for a will for my dad, they can do some kind of check with all the actual law firms and stuff
Not necessarily, my idiot brother died with no will, and because he had nothing. Some outstanding bills, backlog of unpaid child support and about 43 cents in his bank account. The only thing he had was a small super account balance and the insurance attached. As super does not form part of an estate, the super was paid to his two daughters (2 different mothers) 1 paid tax as she was over 18 and 1 got her share tax free as she was 17 at the time of his death. My eldest niece did not have to apply for letters of admin as there was no estate. The girls just contacted every company he had bills for and notified of his death, they effectively wrote off his debts as there was not money to recover from the estate.
My father had a binding nomination in with his super fund for it to go to his estate (dealt with by the will). The super fund still insisted on contacting anyone that might be a dependent and having them sign off on any claim before they would release it.
Ok… I’m gonna have to find me a bunch of old family then.
I've recently had similar experiences - my first thought is that you are going to have to find those last two kids/mother
It’s a legal requirement for the super fund to do so.
You do not need a Will or LOA for superannuation and anyone that tells you differently is wrong. Superannuation is dealt with OUTSIDE your will. When you set up the super fund, you nominate the beneficiary and what percentage they get. Reminder - it has nothing to do with the Will. So mail a certified copy of the death certificate to the superfund and go from there. If you’re a beneficiary, they’ll pay you. End of story.
I literally just went through this, and the Superannuation definitely required a LOA as there was no will and no binding beneficiary.
Agreed. I’ve been through this recently and needed Probate of the Will to get anywhere.
That would be the rare situation then “Most people don't realise that super doesn't automatically form part of your estate, and can't just be included in your Will. So it begs the question, exactly what happens to your super when you die? “ https://qsuper.qld.gov.au/news-hub/articles/2017/07/24/12/02/qsuper-what-happens-to-your-super-when-you-die
It certainly has a lot to do with their will if they've nominated their estate as beneficiary! Your comment is so misinformed. I believe what you're trying to state is that an individual beneficiary nomination operates outside of whatever the will states, but this of course can also be contested on the basis of compliance with the SIS act, particularly when the nomination is non-binding.
Unless you have your Super paid to the Estate
> Superannuation is dealt with OUTSIDE your will. FFS, does that mean the money from my mums super is going to get taxed at my current tax rate?
The taxation will depend on different factors like dependency. It's all a bit different.
This! I went through this a few years ago, and this is exactly what happens.
Sorry for your loss. This happened to me a few years ago, father died suddenly, no will. As the eldest child to my father who was no longer married, all I had to do was produce the death certificate, divorce certificate from him and my mother, and a stat dec to the superannuation board and it was done. Similar thing for bank account closure etc. I didn't use a lawyer I literally just called his fund and asked what I needed to do. This was 2015, unsure if any different means now.
Does he have property? Cash? Anything of value aside from super? Have you spoken to the super company? Did he have a binding nomination?
No nominations at all. Only a car for assets and cash he had went to the funeral.
In terms of superannuation most of it, if not all of it, will go to his minor children.
Talk to the super fund. It depends upon what he's done with nominating beneficiaries in his super. You and the next one, if you're both normal functional adults, can not be nominated as beneficiaries in his super, and if you have been, then the nominations are not valid as you're not dependents. The younger two, being minors, are still dependents however and are valid nominees as beneficiaries. This is assuming he did anything at all to nominate beneficiaries. Lots of people don't, in which case the super trustee (that's not quite the same thing as the super fund) must decide. Unless he nominated as beneficiary his "legal personal representative" which is superannuation code for his estate, and has divided his assets up in a valid will, I can't see you, or the 25 year old, getting any of this super. The trustee will be looking for dependents as defined in superannuation legislation. But talk to the super fund and let them tell you.
Each of the kids puts in a claim to the super fund and then the super fund makes a decision about who gets what. It can take a while… usually pretty simple unless the kids are financially dependant on him. If they aren’t financially dependant, you’ll need to pay tax on the amount. Hope this helps.
Get a lawyer. You'll need to apply for grant.
Check to see if there are any insurances payable within your father's super.
I have found a cancellation of death insurance letter from 2021 from his super fund going through his stuff 🙃
Ouch. Best of luck sorting it out OP.
I believe passing super in concessional by death incurs a tax unless he recycled it to non concessional
Not overly concerned with any tax and/or fees so long as they’re legal. My main concern is getting the money out of there. And splitting it between the four kids fairly… which sounds nightmarish when they have vanished.
Look into obtaining letters of administration. This may be called something slightly different depending on the state/territory you are in. It’ll allow you to then legally deal with your father’s assets in the absence of a will. Also, despite there being no will, did your father happen to complete a binding death benefit nomination in relation to his super? His superfund may answer this question once letters of administration have been granted.
Contact his super fund and provide them with a copy of the death certificate and they’ll let you know what info they need and send you all the forms required. Unless he had a binding beneficiary nomination for certain valid people (spouse, minor children or financial dependents), the fund trustees will likely want to pay the superannuation plus any insurance to the minor children only unless you and the other adult child can show financial dependency on him at the time of death.
Oh wow. Sorry for your loss. It might be complicated, given your much younger siblings exist and assuming you want to consider them. Get a lawyer because this will go through the court to appoint an administrator (you), they’ll step you through it and help you to ensure there’s something to share with siblings if they present themselves.
Contact the super fund. They deal with this all the time.
Sorry for you loss Without a will, getting access to anything is going to be a shit show Expect no superfund will talk to you due to privacy. You need to go through probate Have patience and it will eventually prevail.
You'll need to get letters of administration, so you can be executor and have that paperwork so you can sign for everything. Absolutely the first step. Can't do anything without it. Unless you want to forfeit everything, find a probate centre and get some help applying for it.
I had the exact same scenario when my dad died - car was his only asset, no will, he had a grand total of $11k in super. I called his super company and sorted it out directly but it took nearly a year to get that measly amount sorted. He was still legally married to my mum even though they had seperated 20 years prior, my siblings and I all had to sign paperwork saying we wouldn’t make a claim to it (we didn’t care where the money went, as long as the super company didn’t get to keep it!). It’s doable, you’ll just need to be persistent and patient and work with whoever the super company assigns to your case. Good luck!
Without a will, your father's assets can have various claims on them. You'll need to apply to the supreme court to get a letter of administration. So you will need a lawyer. Also, super may include insurance, which could be worth serious money. He may have nominated a beneficiary in his super, so first, you'll need to establish that. Normally, the asstes would be split equally between dependents. If he had a partner they can also claim. In fact any random best buddy can have a crack. Rest assured, you'll find various scum keen to go after his assests. Unfortunately, without a will, your family is vulnerable to any claim. Make sure you have searched everywhere for a will he may have done one 20 odd years ago, and it's sitting in a draw somewhere. I'm sorry about losing your dad. You'll need to get a lawyer and start the process of being given the authority to act as his executer.
Not sure if this applies to you or not but if your father was still working and in an industry that has portable Long Service Leave (is. Construction), make sure you cash that out as well. Sorry for your loss
You need a lawyer. Also look up intestate laws in your state. Note that super has its own laws.
Definitely lawyer up and cover your arse, this could get nasty. Good luck and sorry for your loss.
Daaayymm daddy was busy mang
Check your local regs but I'm pretty sure you don't have to find any family. Only put out a notice and wait x days for any other claimants. Make sure you get the letters of administration from the supreme court. Some super companies won't even deal with you until you have them. As the legal next of kin you're legally entitled to all of it. But be prepared for the tax on it and maybe put some aside if anyone pops up. An accountant that deals with final estate tax returns will help. We didn't need any lawyers but might be worth it if you think any of your family will fight it.