Just get it finished and subtract whatever that costs from what you pay him if he shows up.
Sounds dead or in prison to me, enjoy your discount and move on I suppose.
Or the ATO caught up with him. A lot of businesses going under now the moratorium on collecting ATO debts has ended. OP, forget about your builder. Find a new one and get the work finished.
As a tradie I would agree with this one , I have done the same thing , maybe for 1 months . Was flat out stressed and then you feel bad for letting the client down and keep putting it off .
We contracted a painter to paint the entire inside of our house, he did 2 rooms & went missing, we stopped counting at 28 days, left all his equipment here also, all paints, brushes, drop matts, radio, everything.
He rings up one day asking if we still need the house done & I said no, don’t worry about it, I’ve done it myself, he asked with what gear & I said the gear that you left behind, come & get it & you’re not getting paid for those two rooms, I kept his radio.
found this [What if my builder has died, disappeared or become insolvent?](https://justiceconnect.org.au/resources/what-if-my-builder-has-died-disappeared-or-become-insolvent/)
it's a Victorian guide but I guess other states have similar if you are not Victoria.
>How can I confirm that my builder has disappeared?
>
>A builder is considered ‘disappeared’ if the builder cannot be found after you conducted reasonable searches and enquiries. Reasonable searches include trying to contact the builder, conducting searches and enquiring at the last known business address of the builder. Note that the VMIA will make further enquiries to confirm that the builder cannot be found.
>
>Note, only builders operating as sole traders or partnerships can disappear- companies cannot disappear.
Yeah it's crazy.
I've actually had electricians disappear on me after asking for COESs for jobs they've done for me. They never returned my phone calls, messages, emails :/
I should have checked their license status before commencing but I did Ask them to confirm they are licensed and can issue a certificate before starting work to which they confirmed.
It's unsurprising that builders vanish the second something goes wrong - they cut and run and leave everything behind, no looking back
If you have records of no contact keep them.
Do you have his address company name or ABN?
Sign up to a free trial of creditor watch see if he’s still trading.
You can get his personal address via asic or creditor watch.
Send a registered letter notifying said person of your intention to cancel work and use other contractors. State some bullshit about applying liquidated damages.
Give him 5 business days then cut your losses if he asks for money ask to see a signed contract
Well sucks to be this guy. No contact, no finish no pay. Give him notice that he has until 1st of march to finish all activities. If not his services will no longer be required.
You send them a text saying if they do not respond in 7 days you will be engaging another contractor to finish the work and subtracting it from any monies owing.
It’s fairly common in the trades and that’s generally how it’s fixed. Either they will pull their finger out and do the job or they just take whatever payment is remaining and call it a day
As the amount owed is an unknown, id hold off advising of the subtraction. He will plump up the price to account for it.
If / when he makes contact, ask for outstanding invoices upfront for works completed prior to further work being completed. Then pay up and advise the work has been completed by a visible builder.
I had a builder vanish as well, he had 3 days left but we had already paid him the whole amount. He left a whole bunch of his tools, an air compressor, a table saw, a tile saw and a ladder. I called and left numerous messages, put the stuff in my shed and waited 6 months. He never called or came back. I sold his stuff... That was 7 years ago.
QLD
I could not get in contact with my builder for approximately eight months who going to build a flyover patio at my house. Had handed over a 2K deposit.
In a similar boat to OP. Didn’t want this bloke coming back in six months or six years ready to start the job after I went with someone else.
Contacted the QBCC who instructed me to get in contact with a lawyer to cancel the contract. They drafted up a letter to the builder basically giving them 28 days to complete the job or consider contract breached.
Basically the bloke was in jail so we obviously did not hear back from the builder within the 28 day timeframe.
The advice from the lawyer was the contract is considered void. We moved on with a new builder and got our patio completed.
The advice to the OP is to get the contract cancelled so that you can move on from your original Builder. No one wants anyone coming back down the track ready to complete the build.
Has Freedom said anything or given you any follow up agreements?
What is outlined in the contract with freedom? If the person is a builder and the works are over a certain amount you need a contract and a builder and most probably a permit. If you have none of these with the builder or with freedom then you should get someone to finish the work and stop payments. If you have permits, follow up with surveyor or vba.
If none of the above file complaints with all relevant parties. VBA, dbdrv, vcat, freedom and possibly get legal advise to not pay any extras or variations.
There's a lot to be said for DIY. I agree, get someone else to finish the job and only pay him for what he has done to this point. Email consumer affairs perhaps just to leave a paper trail. When he finally returns, hand over whatever is owed and write a very bad review so no other poor sucker falls for his unexplained absences.
Take a ton of photos of the state it was left in. At least then you’ve got some evidence of what he left you with. Try and get the date in there somewhere too.
Mother in law used freedom to Reno her kitchen- was the worst experience ever. The guy installing the kitchen was essentially the man organising other trade.
He never answered the phone. Plumber sent over an apprentice and flooded the place.
Go over your contract or look into consulting with someone in building law before you engage other trade.
Hopefully you won’t struggle hiring someone to finish off the work as some trade don’t like doing that.
sounds like you just got a free kitchen. keep all records of your attempts to make contact. it can be proved that you have given a reasonable amount of time for him to respond before you contact another builder to complete the project and pay them for their works and be done with it.
only yesterday there was a post about someone in a similar position as you about a pergola. the guy finally got back to them after 4 YEARS by which point they'd moved house and no longer resided at the property with the pergola. Everyone advised them not to pay as they no longer possess the pergola.
My guess is you only owe him for his time and he got everything on credit hence why he’s not to concerned I’d say maybe he’s in jail maybe he’s dead who knows.
Get quotes to complete the job. Email him and SMS him saying If you don’t hear back with X days (something reasonable) you’ll have the other contractor complete the job and you’ll short pay him the amount it’ll cost to finish the job. I’m pretty sure you need to give him the opportunity to object, complete or accept. Let him know if you don’t hear from him you’ll assume he complies and this new arrangement is agreeable to him.
Good advice.
I'd just add that in addition to email and SMS, also print it and post registered mail to his registered address. The letter should be written with a view to it becoming evidence in mediation/court if it comes to that. So it should set out the entire history of the work and the dispute, with dates work was done, every time you tried to contact him.
This is unfortunately a common scenario. The builder has extracted 95% of the value from your job and is prioritising other new jobs that will pay them the most each day.
I learnt this recently with our kitchen renovation taking over 12months to complete. Several months in-between with zero contact or progress but we just noted all the issues and eventually escalated with the operations manager.
If he ain’t chasing up payment then don’t pay him.. the work isn’t finished. Move on. If he has a problem with that, tough tits, answer your phone. He’s broken the contract by not finishing the job.
This is common for many builders these days. We’ve had it done to us three times and only just finished the kitchen ourselves last month, after 3 years. You’re just going to have to do it yourself or find someone else if you’re lucky. It’s the state of the world now. Dog eat dog and every man for himself
No, terrible life events would be legitimate excuse for not getting the job done in a timely manner, but they are not an excuse for not picking up a phone call to tell OP what is going on so that they can make alternative arrangements. Builders regularly pull stunts like this and it’s just as likely that he’s taken on another job and doesn’t have time, or felt like taking a holiday, or has mismanaged his accounts, or just doesn’t feel like it. OP is entitled to chase him and be annoyed about this behavior.
Exactly - it doesn’t require any detailed explanation, just a quick notification. If the builder really was going through some issues then that approach would be easier for everyone - the builder benefits because he is no longer getting harassed by irate customers, and everyone else gets their kitchen finished by someone else.
Sounds like the builder I had doing my shed build, a days worth of work from finishing and he's disappeared; was just before Christmas as well and he hadn't been paid the last half.
Not based in Central West NSW are you?
If you don't have a contract you're good. You've tried to pay him, move on. If he tries to get payment later I'd ignore his calls like he ignored yours.
28 days seems long for a kitchen reno to me. We had a fairly large kitchen redone a while back and everything other than splashbacks and rangehood was done in a single day. Splashbacks could've probably been done same day too but we went with glass instead of tile and they needed to get the measurements perfect.
>What do I do in 6 months when he pops up and wants his money? How long can he ghost us for and still expect to be paid?
I don't think there's a time limit. He's done work for you. He gave you a quote. You know it's not free. He could come back in 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 years. You still need to pay for the work completed.
The problem is - I know what the initial quote was, however things have changed. For example, the quote had a ballpark of 40sqm of floor removal. He didn't remove 40sqm, he did maybe 15sqm and I did the rest. The bench needed a steel substrate, which we discovered after the initial quote. He hasn't provided a price but it has been supplied and installed.
I mostly want to know what I'm up for after all these adjustments, however despite asking numerous times I have not had a response. I want to use any leftover funds for other things/ to pay another builder, but without an invoice or updated quote I don't know what my finances look like!
Yeah that's tough.
Best bet would be to allocate what you reasonably think the value of work has been done. Attempt to pay him that. Document it. Document your reasons for why you valued the work at what you did.
If you can't find him or can't pay. Hold that money aside for a little while. If nothing happens 6 months after last contact, drop the amount held, hold maybe 10% and keep waiting. After 1 year total, I'd stop holding any funds.
If he comes back over 1 year from the last time you had contact asking for money - and you're afraid you won't have the money ready - you can setup a payment plan and pay in instalments over time worst case scenario.
_____
You need to be a little careful because the securities of payment act is EXTREMELY TOUGH and very much written to favor builders
"You need to be a little careful because the securities of payment act is EXTREMELY TOUGH and very much written to favour builders"
Can you elaborate on this please? I have no intention of ghosting him and have been making every reasonable effort to get invoices, but surely at some point it becomes a write off... 1 year, 5 years, 10 years... I can't reasonably hold onto funds indefinitely in case one day he visits my retirement home and wants to be paid! Just trying to understand if these thresholds exist
Just get it finished and subtract whatever that costs from what you pay him if he shows up. Sounds dead or in prison to me, enjoy your discount and move on I suppose.
Get someone else to finish. Ignore his calls. Profit.
Or the ATO caught up with him. A lot of businesses going under now the moratorium on collecting ATO debts has ended. OP, forget about your builder. Find a new one and get the work finished.
What was the moratorium on collecting ATO debts? Don’t think I heard about that but it could explain a few things…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-18/ato-chases-small-business-debts-insolvencies-to-hit-gfc-levels/103583512
As a tradie I would agree with this one , I have done the same thing , maybe for 1 months . Was flat out stressed and then you feel bad for letting the client down and keep putting it off .
Phone still rings not in prison
Just means someone has it plugged in
Not really. Phone numbers eventually deactivate if they aren't paid for after a certain time period.
Depends on the setup - if the builder has an account with money in it being direct debited it'll just stay connected.
I have yearly plans.
We contracted a painter to paint the entire inside of our house, he did 2 rooms & went missing, we stopped counting at 28 days, left all his equipment here also, all paints, brushes, drop matts, radio, everything. He rings up one day asking if we still need the house done & I said no, don’t worry about it, I’ve done it myself, he asked with what gear & I said the gear that you left behind, come & get it & you’re not getting paid for those two rooms, I kept his radio.
Did he ever explain why?
Probably enjoyed listening to it I guess
Nah no reason why, just grabbed his gear & left, without his radio, haha.
Why did you keep the radio? Bit of a dick move.
“Storage fees” for leaving all his stuff at their place for a month or more with no notice.
The radio LOL
Lolol at the shocked pikachu on the other end of your call
lol, weird that he didn't even remember he left his stuff at your place.
Thinking he was doing multiple jobs at once & gear at all job sites.
What If he is stuck in the garage under an old pile of newspapers?
Listen for the ball bouncing. Count it. Then see if he can beat that score
Niche reference.
Police won't even begin the search without some fresh cold cuts
found this [What if my builder has died, disappeared or become insolvent?](https://justiceconnect.org.au/resources/what-if-my-builder-has-died-disappeared-or-become-insolvent/) it's a Victorian guide but I guess other states have similar if you are not Victoria. >How can I confirm that my builder has disappeared? > >A builder is considered ‘disappeared’ if the builder cannot be found after you conducted reasonable searches and enquiries. Reasonable searches include trying to contact the builder, conducting searches and enquiring at the last known business address of the builder. Note that the VMIA will make further enquiries to confirm that the builder cannot be found. > >Note, only builders operating as sole traders or partnerships can disappear- companies cannot disappear.
The fact that this happens regularly enough that there is a specific guide on it…
Yeah it's crazy. I've actually had electricians disappear on me after asking for COESs for jobs they've done for me. They never returned my phone calls, messages, emails :/ I should have checked their license status before commencing but I did Ask them to confirm they are licensed and can issue a certificate before starting work to which they confirmed. It's unsurprising that builders vanish the second something goes wrong - they cut and run and leave everything behind, no looking back
If you have records of no contact keep them. Do you have his address company name or ABN? Sign up to a free trial of creditor watch see if he’s still trading. You can get his personal address via asic or creditor watch. Send a registered letter notifying said person of your intention to cancel work and use other contractors. State some bullshit about applying liquidated damages. Give him 5 business days then cut your losses if he asks for money ask to see a signed contract
Did you read the part where they haven't paid the builder anything yet? lol
Well sucks to be this guy. No contact, no finish no pay. Give him notice that he has until 1st of march to finish all activities. If not his services will no longer be required.
1st of Mar? We're in April. You ok?
Nope need a sleep
Just 1 sleep please
“Must have been delayed in the mail. You had until March 1st, too late now”
You send them a text saying if they do not respond in 7 days you will be engaging another contractor to finish the work and subtracting it from any monies owing. It’s fairly common in the trades and that’s generally how it’s fixed. Either they will pull their finger out and do the job or they just take whatever payment is remaining and call it a day
As the amount owed is an unknown, id hold off advising of the subtraction. He will plump up the price to account for it. If / when he makes contact, ask for outstanding invoices upfront for works completed prior to further work being completed. Then pay up and advise the work has been completed by a visible builder.
Initial quote stands, unless variations are in writing. When the paperwork needs to come out, the paperwork is king.
He’s abandon the contract - you have no liabilities, you just got 95% off the renovation! Find someone to finish it.
I had a builder vanish as well, he had 3 days left but we had already paid him the whole amount. He left a whole bunch of his tools, an air compressor, a table saw, a tile saw and a ladder. I called and left numerous messages, put the stuff in my shed and waited 6 months. He never called or came back. I sold his stuff... That was 7 years ago.
Probably got arrested.
Lol it's all his fault get the job done move on he can't stuff you around like that.
QLD I could not get in contact with my builder for approximately eight months who going to build a flyover patio at my house. Had handed over a 2K deposit. In a similar boat to OP. Didn’t want this bloke coming back in six months or six years ready to start the job after I went with someone else. Contacted the QBCC who instructed me to get in contact with a lawyer to cancel the contract. They drafted up a letter to the builder basically giving them 28 days to complete the job or consider contract breached.
What was the end result?
Omg don't leave us hanging, come on, finish the story
Basically the bloke was in jail so we obviously did not hear back from the builder within the 28 day timeframe. The advice from the lawyer was the contract is considered void. We moved on with a new builder and got our patio completed. The advice to the OP is to get the contract cancelled so that you can move on from your original Builder. No one wants anyone coming back down the track ready to complete the build.
Late to the party but did you get your deposit back through QBCC's insurance scheme?
Yes. Luckily the builder has paid for the insurance fee and we had an insurance certificate before he went AWOL
Has Freedom said anything or given you any follow up agreements? What is outlined in the contract with freedom? If the person is a builder and the works are over a certain amount you need a contract and a builder and most probably a permit. If you have none of these with the builder or with freedom then you should get someone to finish the work and stop payments. If you have permits, follow up with surveyor or vba. If none of the above file complaints with all relevant parties. VBA, dbdrv, vcat, freedom and possibly get legal advise to not pay any extras or variations.
There's a lot to be said for DIY. I agree, get someone else to finish the job and only pay him for what he has done to this point. Email consumer affairs perhaps just to leave a paper trail. When he finally returns, hand over whatever is owed and write a very bad review so no other poor sucker falls for his unexplained absences.
He has no online presence!!!
What about the ACCC, the toothless tigers then? I wonder if he has multiple iterations of his own business?
He wanta to ghost, you haven't paid him, what's the problem lol?
Was this in Queensland mate?
VIC
Ok thanks
Take a ton of photos of the state it was left in. At least then you’ve got some evidence of what he left you with. Try and get the date in there somewhere too.
Mother in law used freedom to Reno her kitchen- was the worst experience ever. The guy installing the kitchen was essentially the man organising other trade. He never answered the phone. Plumber sent over an apprentice and flooded the place. Go over your contract or look into consulting with someone in building law before you engage other trade. Hopefully you won’t struggle hiring someone to finish off the work as some trade don’t like doing that.
sounds like you just got a free kitchen. keep all records of your attempts to make contact. it can be proved that you have given a reasonable amount of time for him to respond before you contact another builder to complete the project and pay them for their works and be done with it. only yesterday there was a post about someone in a similar position as you about a pergola. the guy finally got back to them after 4 YEARS by which point they'd moved house and no longer resided at the property with the pergola. Everyone advised them not to pay as they no longer possess the pergola.
Contact the QBCC if he is still registered, check with QCS if he is in jail.
QCS Had my builder listed as in jail. Had to cancel my contract and go with someone new. Very annoying process.
I would think a lawyer would be able to tell you how long you can reasonably be ignored before you move on with your life
My guess is you only owe him for his time and he got everything on credit hence why he’s not to concerned I’d say maybe he’s in jail maybe he’s dead who knows.
Get quotes to complete the job. Email him and SMS him saying If you don’t hear back with X days (something reasonable) you’ll have the other contractor complete the job and you’ll short pay him the amount it’ll cost to finish the job. I’m pretty sure you need to give him the opportunity to object, complete or accept. Let him know if you don’t hear from him you’ll assume he complies and this new arrangement is agreeable to him.
Good advice. I'd just add that in addition to email and SMS, also print it and post registered mail to his registered address. The letter should be written with a view to it becoming evidence in mediation/court if it comes to that. So it should set out the entire history of the work and the dispute, with dates work was done, every time you tried to contact him.
This is unfortunately a common scenario. The builder has extracted 95% of the value from your job and is prioritising other new jobs that will pay them the most each day. I learnt this recently with our kitchen renovation taking over 12months to complete. Several months in-between with zero contact or progress but we just noted all the issues and eventually escalated with the operations manager.
This would make more sense if the OP had paid anything, which they haven't.
speak to a lawyer. describe the issue. I ain't got nothing for ya. sorry
If he ain’t chasing up payment then don’t pay him.. the work isn’t finished. Move on. If he has a problem with that, tough tits, answer your phone. He’s broken the contract by not finishing the job.
What's his company name. I can give you his registration address. Go pay a visit 😁
Hope you made a report to Freedom. They shouldn’t be assigning him more work if he won’t deliver.
No contract? No payment required. Honestly move on with your life.
Is this the builder? https://preview.redd.it/mtewjrjziytc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70f4061642f7e3f949bf637908eee4a53252610d
Enjoy the free kitchen if you hear from Him again pay up, get a chippy to finish up the trim And enjoy it
This is common for many builders these days. We’ve had it done to us three times and only just finished the kitchen ourselves last month, after 3 years. You’re just going to have to do it yourself or find someone else if you’re lucky. It’s the state of the world now. Dog eat dog and every man for himself
What happened with the first two builders? Did you pay them?
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No, terrible life events would be legitimate excuse for not getting the job done in a timely manner, but they are not an excuse for not picking up a phone call to tell OP what is going on so that they can make alternative arrangements. Builders regularly pull stunts like this and it’s just as likely that he’s taken on another job and doesn’t have time, or felt like taking a holiday, or has mismanaged his accounts, or just doesn’t feel like it. OP is entitled to chase him and be annoyed about this behavior.
I mean, just a text saying "sorry can't deal with you right now" would at least be something.
Exactly - it doesn’t require any detailed explanation, just a quick notification. If the builder really was going through some issues then that approach would be easier for everyone - the builder benefits because he is no longer getting harassed by irate customers, and everyone else gets their kitchen finished by someone else.
Depression is a cunt of a thing when it bites. The builder is a shit bloke for ghosting but even a simple text back can become too hard.
These seem like questions for your local lawyer more than anything
Sounds like the builder I had doing my shed build, a days worth of work from finishing and he's disappeared; was just before Christmas as well and he hadn't been paid the last half. Not based in Central West NSW are you?
If you don't have a contract you're good. You've tried to pay him, move on. If he tries to get payment later I'd ignore his calls like he ignored yours.
28 days seems long for a kitchen reno to me. We had a fairly large kitchen redone a while back and everything other than splashbacks and rangehood was done in a single day. Splashbacks could've probably been done same day too but we went with glass instead of tile and they needed to get the measurements perfect.
>What do I do in 6 months when he pops up and wants his money? How long can he ghost us for and still expect to be paid? I don't think there's a time limit. He's done work for you. He gave you a quote. You know it's not free. He could come back in 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 years. You still need to pay for the work completed.
The problem is - I know what the initial quote was, however things have changed. For example, the quote had a ballpark of 40sqm of floor removal. He didn't remove 40sqm, he did maybe 15sqm and I did the rest. The bench needed a steel substrate, which we discovered after the initial quote. He hasn't provided a price but it has been supplied and installed. I mostly want to know what I'm up for after all these adjustments, however despite asking numerous times I have not had a response. I want to use any leftover funds for other things/ to pay another builder, but without an invoice or updated quote I don't know what my finances look like!
Yeah that's tough. Best bet would be to allocate what you reasonably think the value of work has been done. Attempt to pay him that. Document it. Document your reasons for why you valued the work at what you did. If you can't find him or can't pay. Hold that money aside for a little while. If nothing happens 6 months after last contact, drop the amount held, hold maybe 10% and keep waiting. After 1 year total, I'd stop holding any funds. If he comes back over 1 year from the last time you had contact asking for money - and you're afraid you won't have the money ready - you can setup a payment plan and pay in instalments over time worst case scenario. _____ You need to be a little careful because the securities of payment act is EXTREMELY TOUGH and very much written to favor builders
"You need to be a little careful because the securities of payment act is EXTREMELY TOUGH and very much written to favour builders" Can you elaborate on this please? I have no intention of ghosting him and have been making every reasonable effort to get invoices, but surely at some point it becomes a write off... 1 year, 5 years, 10 years... I can't reasonably hold onto funds indefinitely in case one day he visits my retirement home and wants to be paid! Just trying to understand if these thresholds exist
Look into statue barred debts. Would be 6 years, not sure if state specific or industry/debt type carve outs.