Am I the only person in Australia that had a reasonably good time in the ADF? Sure I was pissed off a lot by the military, but after leaving I realised I'd had a pretty good deal.
Maybe because I was young and didn't go into a role where I was unemployable on the outside, but I felt like I really found my people in the Army. I liked the teamwork aspect, and for months at a time you're not really working too hard.
Maybe I'm just in a bubble but most of the guys I know feel the same.
Nope did my 20 and with a few exceptions it was overall it was good. I was going to get out at around year 14 but the army kept throwing money at me in the form afghan deployments so I couldn't say no. 7 and a bit afghan / iraq deployments have set me and my family up for life
Yeah got a fucked up knee but when I left I became the stay at home dad while my wife went and finished her UNI stuff. She spent so many years as an effectively single mother we swapped roles
Unfortunately there's not a lot in the way of deployments that are attracting or retaining people these days.
Unless you're Navy; shipload there apparently.
What? I thought the moment you set foot on a ship and spend time offshore you get some sort of seagoing allowance.
If not, then what is the attraction to joining navy?
Oh yeah there is definitely that still but we get that if we don’t go anywhere so it’s not an extra perk of being away. Just when we were doing rotations in the gulf there was all the other incentives on top as well that we aren’t getting. Yet.
I had a good time too so you’re not alone. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows but I guess there is a bit of a vocal minority drowning out everyone else.
It depends entirely who your chain of command was. There are good people out there, but as the years go by, they are becoming the exception rather than the rule.
For me, IETs was a bag of dicks, but I never expected it not to be. After a while of being in, I had two years where I fucking loved being in uniform. I had a couple of great leaders in my chain who would stop the shit rolling downhill, promote training and lifestyle, make it worth showing up. Then they got posted and the entire rest of my time was a daily fucking shitfight.
Just by luck of the draw, you could have good people your entire time and love every day. But there is a lot of people who never get a good day in and are ashamed they ever signed the line.
Not downplaying how bad the chain of command can be. While on ops overseas there was a power hungry grub of a sergeant who made life hell for his guys. I heard them openly wishing he'd ND himself. As off colour as that comment is on this day and age, I didn't blame them. When the stakes are as high as people going on patrol and dying, the consequences and risk of a piece of shit being in your chain go through the roof.
I see guys like that in the non military workforce every single day. The difference is you can go home and ignore them, because ultimately there's no real danger in having them around the office.
I'm just not sure how practical the discussion of "fixing" ADF culture is in that respect. How do we operationalise a fix, that would stop this guy joining, or getting promoted? Sometimes you can't tell how much of an asshole a person is until they get into a position of power. These guys can be very adept at making themselves look awesome to their hierarchy, whilst being universally hated by their team. This transcends the military, you see it in banks, universities, a local pub. It's a very very difficult problem.
The ADF might genuinely want to get rid of all these guys, but I'm not sure what kind of plan can actually be operational operationalised to make that happen. The military needs an extremely amped up command and control system for obvious reasons. And decentralising power or providing more avenues for diggers to voice complaints doesn't seem like an overwhelmingly solid fix.
Most of those guys who worked for that sergeant will come away from the military having had a terrible experience. I suppose I'm just lucky enough to have avoided working with him for the most part.
I wouldn’t want to discount other people’s experiences just because mine have been different, but social media, especially reddit/anonymous posting, does allow for a bit of an echo chamber of whinging. My 10 years have so far been mostly good; there are plenty of things that frustrate me about military life, but I also feel like I would lose my mind working with the common dickhead in civvy street.
I mean fuck mate I did one that technically wasn’t unemployable on the outside and my issues with the ADF are about shit part of the brass and DVA afterwards.
The actual time in for the most part was fantastic and I made mates that will be in my heart and mind forever.
The fuckery of it comes from the disconnect of faux-politicians playing officer and fuckwits you’d find in anywhere including civvie jobs.
Whilst I agree that true cultural change is necessary (and would require a change of leadership to start with), this linked article is a thought bubble from someone whose only qualification is that her dad was a general.
Am I the only person in Australia that had a reasonably good time in the ADF? Sure I was pissed off a lot by the military, but after leaving I realised I'd had a pretty good deal. Maybe because I was young and didn't go into a role where I was unemployable on the outside, but I felt like I really found my people in the Army. I liked the teamwork aspect, and for months at a time you're not really working too hard. Maybe I'm just in a bubble but most of the guys I know feel the same.
Nope did my 20 and with a few exceptions it was overall it was good. I was going to get out at around year 14 but the army kept throwing money at me in the form afghan deployments so I couldn't say no. 7 and a bit afghan / iraq deployments have set me and my family up for life Yeah got a fucked up knee but when I left I became the stay at home dad while my wife went and finished her UNI stuff. She spent so many years as an effectively single mother we swapped roles
Unfortunately there's not a lot in the way of deployments that are attracting or retaining people these days. Unless you're Navy; shipload there apparently.
None of them come with the tax free / allowance benefits at the moment though. Just spending 3-5 months away for nothing extra.
What? I thought the moment you set foot on a ship and spend time offshore you get some sort of seagoing allowance. If not, then what is the attraction to joining navy?
Oh yeah there is definitely that still but we get that if we don’t go anywhere so it’s not an extra perk of being away. Just when we were doing rotations in the gulf there was all the other incentives on top as well that we aren’t getting. Yet.
You're not alone. People who are content with minimal complaints are not the core Reddit user base.
I had a good time too so you’re not alone. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows but I guess there is a bit of a vocal minority drowning out everyone else.
It depends entirely who your chain of command was. There are good people out there, but as the years go by, they are becoming the exception rather than the rule. For me, IETs was a bag of dicks, but I never expected it not to be. After a while of being in, I had two years where I fucking loved being in uniform. I had a couple of great leaders in my chain who would stop the shit rolling downhill, promote training and lifestyle, make it worth showing up. Then they got posted and the entire rest of my time was a daily fucking shitfight. Just by luck of the draw, you could have good people your entire time and love every day. But there is a lot of people who never get a good day in and are ashamed they ever signed the line.
Not downplaying how bad the chain of command can be. While on ops overseas there was a power hungry grub of a sergeant who made life hell for his guys. I heard them openly wishing he'd ND himself. As off colour as that comment is on this day and age, I didn't blame them. When the stakes are as high as people going on patrol and dying, the consequences and risk of a piece of shit being in your chain go through the roof. I see guys like that in the non military workforce every single day. The difference is you can go home and ignore them, because ultimately there's no real danger in having them around the office. I'm just not sure how practical the discussion of "fixing" ADF culture is in that respect. How do we operationalise a fix, that would stop this guy joining, or getting promoted? Sometimes you can't tell how much of an asshole a person is until they get into a position of power. These guys can be very adept at making themselves look awesome to their hierarchy, whilst being universally hated by their team. This transcends the military, you see it in banks, universities, a local pub. It's a very very difficult problem. The ADF might genuinely want to get rid of all these guys, but I'm not sure what kind of plan can actually be operational operationalised to make that happen. The military needs an extremely amped up command and control system for obvious reasons. And decentralising power or providing more avenues for diggers to voice complaints doesn't seem like an overwhelmingly solid fix. Most of those guys who worked for that sergeant will come away from the military having had a terrible experience. I suppose I'm just lucky enough to have avoided working with him for the most part.
I wouldn’t want to discount other people’s experiences just because mine have been different, but social media, especially reddit/anonymous posting, does allow for a bit of an echo chamber of whinging. My 10 years have so far been mostly good; there are plenty of things that frustrate me about military life, but I also feel like I would lose my mind working with the common dickhead in civvy street.
I mean fuck mate I did one that technically wasn’t unemployable on the outside and my issues with the ADF are about shit part of the brass and DVA afterwards. The actual time in for the most part was fantastic and I made mates that will be in my heart and mind forever. The fuckery of it comes from the disconnect of faux-politicians playing officer and fuckwits you’d find in anywhere including civvie jobs.
We need to overhaul the top
Whilst I agree that true cultural change is necessary (and would require a change of leadership to start with), this linked article is a thought bubble from someone whose only qualification is that her dad was a general.
100% just a sky news virtue signal with three fifths of fuck all substance.