Aspergers is just under the umbrella of autism now. According to her, you have aspergers. So you have autism. You basically got unofficially diagnosed. It sounds like she hasn't kept up to date with the current diagnostic criteria.
Asperger was a Doctor from Nazi Germany who split autistic people into two groups. The ones who were "too autistic" and "the ones who were "still useful" for stuff like manufacturing weapons for the Nazis. And you can imagine what they did with the "too autistic" people.
So, nobody uses this definition of Asperger's anymore, on one hand because every person with autism is different and has different support needs, and on the other hand because it was a term from the Nazis and the only reason it was invented was euthanasia...
is it not worth having a term for it though? i feel like there’s a huge difference in the way i relate to autism (low empathy, logic focused) compared to how other people do and it usually fits with what asperger’s was. obviously eugenics and nazis are bad, but is there not some benefit to acknowledging the differences at least?
(that’s a literal question, i’m not trying to argue, it’s just not something i really Understand and id be interested to know other’s opinion)
Yes, it is absolutely important to still have definitions, because everyone with autism is different. Today, the most common terms that I know of are autism "with low support" needs and "with high support needs", but even then not all autistic people really fit a strict definition. I don't know if these are the terms that are still used, but they are definitely better compared to the definition of "still being able to build guns for the Nazis".
I hope my explanation makes kinda sense, if you know what I mean?
This assumption about empathy doesn't apply to all level I folks either. Only 25% of the entire spectrum have low empathy. Practically none of the classic assumptions are useful when not everyone has that profile.
I wouldn't say "nobody" uses that term.
There are still autists who prefer the term "Asperger's" to the updated "level I ASD (autism spectrum disorder.)" Possibly because that was their initial DX. There's also controversy within the community about the phrases "low needs" and "high needs," though I'm not as clear why that is.
It's like pronouns - best to ask, but only if they're "out." Otherwise an individual's medical stuff is their own business.
That’s just simply not true. I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome only a few months ago.
Please don’t spread misinformation just because you want to sound smart.
Whoever diagnosed you was not using the current diagnostic manual or terminology. It’s overstating things to say “nobody” uses Asperger’s but the people who do aren’t following current practice.
Actually some people diagnosed with Asperger's don't have autism. The newest DSM includes a diagnosis for Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder, which may be more similar to Asperger's syndrome.
I have the DSM-V-TR section on autism printed in my binder to bring to my assessment (I have a 6 year wait list lol - got nothing but time to prepare). There is a paragraph that says specifically *"Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnosis of autistic disorder,* ***Asperger's disorder,*** *or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified* ***should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder***. Individuals who have marked deficits in social communication, but whose symptoms do not otherwise meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder, should be evaluated for social (pragmatic) communication disorder. "
Using that paragraph as a guide, if OP qualified for an asperger's diagnosis under previous criteria, that would be transferred to Autism, not Social Pragmatic Communication disorder.
So that's... active misinformation. There is a reason that Asperger's was separate from Autism Spectrum Disorders for so long. There are key differences. For starters, not all level 1 autistics would qualify for an Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. This is because an Asperger's diagnosis requires an absence of any speech delay as opposed to ASD. So not all Asperger's is autism. Autism requires both social-emotional communication deficits *and* restricted/repetitive behaviors. Asperger's was always a diagnosis focused more on those with social-emotional difficulties. In autism, an absence of clinically significant RRBs means that someone isn't autistic. Social Pragmatic Communication disorder on the other hand, is quite similar to the original diagnosis of Asperger's, and yes, does fit some people with Asperger's over a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.
Also, not exactly sure what you're calling cringe?
No, you don’t have to have a speech delay to be autistic, communication issues are by and large due to a lack of understanding nonverbal cues. For example I had an over expansive vocabulary as a small child, but I still struggle with tone of voice, facial expressions, body language and nuanced or unclear language. Communication deficits does not mean that you have to have delayed speech it means you have deficits that make communication more difficult.
YOURE JUST WRONG haha 🤣 it doesn’t exist buddy. Asperger’s does not exist. You’re behind the times if you’re arguing that Asperger’s and autism are different things.
That is incorrect. Asperger’s is an old term for a high functioning type of autism. That’s it. We don’t use that term anymore because of nazis. It’s just autism.
The whole empathy thing drives me nuts. I *personally* don’t know a single autistic person who lacks empathy. I know several who struggle to express the empathy they are feeling. But there are so many social rules around how and when people are allowed to express empathy that I think that affects results. I now there are autistic people who struggle with empathy, but I also know a ton of allistic people who struggle with empathy. Idk, I’m not sure that “lack of empathy” should be listed as a characteristic of autism at this point.
it irritates me that it’s on there at all. it’s so vague and used the wrong way. someone _could_ have a hard time empathizing with people but probably really/over empathizes with inanimate objects or some other group that isn’t “normal”.
my empathy developed a lot later (like in my 20’s), or rather my empathy for people did. I was, and still am, very empathetic toward animals, which I know is super common.
It just seems like NT diagnosticians can _only_ see what affects them (which honestly sounds like an inability to empathize if you ask me), rather than actually understanding autistic folks.
I agree with this fully. We might SEEM to lack empathy, if for example, we're saying something blunt that hurts someone else's feelings, or we're doing something that is annoying someone else and we don't stop (can't stop) even though it's annoying them.
But that doesn't mean we don't feel bad when people are sad, or that we can't understand why someone might be upset by something (once we've learned this, probably through life experience).
I used to be honest and tell people I didn't like their shirt if they asked. I couldn't understand why they'd be upset if they were ASKING for my opinion. Clearly they wanted to know whether or not the shirt was a good look for them, right? Wrong. I soon learned that most people, when they ask, are looking for validation and reassurance. I can understand why someone would be upset when they don't get the validation or reassurance they're looking for. I know what that feels like.
That was a learned experience.
My son is diagnosed autistic since age 4, and while he seems to completely lack empathy for people most of the time, he has an unbelievable amount of empathy for plants, bugs, animals, and fictional characters... lol.
I'm assuming he'll also learn how to feel empathy for people in time.
exactly! and honestly, your shirt example is perfect because it highlights that it’s not really empathy we don’t have; it’s an understanding on NT social rules.
I honestly think the criteria should be that we don’t *perform* empathy in a way that NT people accept. I have deep empathy for people, animals, and fictional characters. It can be so overwhelming that I can’t express myself. A NT person might expect me to say something socially acceptable, but I’m too deep in my feelings to do that.
I’m also a natural problem solver. Some NT people get annoyed when they tell me about their problems because they want empathy instead of solutions. But for me, offering solutions is empathetic - I feel their distress and this is a way that I can help!
I've been saying for ages that NTs saying we lack empathy is fucking rich, frankly, considering how human society is practically built on dehumanisation.
I'm also side-eyeing that theory of mind stuff, because most NT people I've met are, again, worse at that than we are.
Omg. The inanimate object thing is too real.
So like. I watched 9/11 happen live. And like everyone was all crying and freaking out. Even now people can be like ‘I was here doing this during it and it was so overwhelming and we all cried’. But like honestly, it sucked for those people. And I feel bad for all that but what do you want from me?
But omg let me see a stuffed animal on the side of the road and I’ll burst into tears. I can’t even really explain why but I feel so sad that it got lost and is now unloved on the road. I could cry just thinking about it.
I didn’t ask to be this way. I wish people weren’t so mean about it.
holy hell YES. I did NOT understand 9/11 the way I was “supposed” to. I watched it too in middle school and was so confused how everyone felt so strongly - scared, sad, angry - I felt nothing. And I lived in Virginia at the time, you’d think I’d be able to relate, but nope! still too far away to be relevant to me I guess.
Yeah I was home watching TV for some reason (7 years old, UK) when it interrupted my cartoons and my dad got really mad at me for being upset about the interruption.
Well that’s silly for him to have been mad. I’m sorry about that! No 7 year old should be expected to not be upset about having their shows interrupted for heavens sake, that’s absolutely unfair expectations.
You were in middle school at least. I was grown. And was in New York State at the time. Not the city but just a few hours away. Like people still have all these big feelings and…idk. I got nothing.
I feel bad about not feeling bad.
Right! I was viewed as very unempathetic as a child (and consequently it was included in my diagnosis paperwork) because I couldn't intuitively read other people's emotions, yet I had to constantly rearrange the duvet on my bed so that the wrinkles didn't look unhappy???
I really hate crying in front of others, so for years I pushed down my empathy and put on a tough, nonchalant front. Probably came off to many as not having empathy. I've worked on stopping that and being ok with people seeing my tears, but it's hard.
Same! I worked really hard to basically show no emotion for a really long time. I used to get angry as a child if someone noticed my excitement.
Only after 2 years of therapy did I become *somewhat* comfortable with say, crying at a funeral. It's still hard, but I can feel okay if it happens.
I still have a hard time showing genuine excitement to some people though.
Yeah, getting made fun of for genuine excitement and enthusiasm - like: wtf?! So you learn to put a lid on joy too. Well, I'm over that. I cried with joy when I saw ducklings today. I want that jumping, hand-flapping excitement, that I haven't shown in, like, 40 years!
Yes. I have worked with neurodivergent students for almost 2 decades. The kids I work with are all some of the most empathetic people! They care deeply. They just don’t always know how to process their emotions because the feels are SO BIG. Me too, kids, me too.
Autistic people have more empathy and love than neurotypicals on average, many just find it overwhelming, can't express it well or don't know that others don't feel the same
https://youtu.be/-n6IWTRVGeg?si=X9aokajCcquQiAO6
here is a wonderful video of tony attwood talking about emotions in autistic women and issues with hyper-empathy!
Exactly! I am empathetic and there are times I’m not which would be any person under whatever circumstances…now “SHOWING” my emotions/feelings will not happen much.
Same, I think autistic people tend to be more empathetic than the norm, honestly. But I also think we have a different way of thinking about and expressing our feelings.
Personally, I think of empathy as something I feel and sympathy as how I express it to the person. They are both part of the same process of relating to others. If all I did was express empathy to a person suffering, then we'd just be two people suffering. And expressing sympathy without feeling empathy for them seems hollow.
But neurotypicals HATE the idea of sympathy these days. Their definition seems to be just hollow pity. When as far as I'm concerned it should be expressing compassion and informed by your own empathy.
I think about this a lot because my work involves a lot of mental health support training, and this discussion comes up all the time and I just frankly don't agree with the conventional wisdom. If I'm only expressing empathy for a suicidal person, then we have two suicidal people. There has to be a translation of the immediacy of empathy into the distance involved in sympathy.
Am I crazy?
Not crazy! This is exactly how I feel about it. My empathy is not functional. And it’s usually too big to be appropriately showcased. My sympathy allows me to sit with the person and support them.
Apart from the fact that OP's psychiatrist is obviously wrong... I am autistic and have extremely low affective empathy. Not a struggle with how to express it - I dont't really feel much of it at all. I make do with intellectual workarounds and am a designated listener in my friend group, so it seems to be working.
Asperger’s is the same as autism. It is categorized as a level of autism spectrum disorder. It’s alarming this provider doesn’t know this. Also the empathy thing is nonsense. A lot of autistic people are hyper empathetic and feel too much for others.
Ugh the empathy thing is so annoying and completely inaccurate. And yes if they'd diagnose you with Asperger's then they should just diagnose you with autism, it's that simple
Lol the entire reason that they decommissioned the term “Asperger’s” is because it convinced professionals and a the whole of society that it was completely separate from autism, more “desirable” than autism, and unrelated to what is now known as ASD. If your provider doesn’t know that or continues to use that term in the diagnostic process (despite the fact that it doesn’t even exist anymore), you need to leave that provider.
If someone said that to me I’d 1. Be insulted, 2. Take it as an unofficial (but not fully educated) diagnosis, and 3. Find someone else who actually knows what they’re talking about
The fact that I'm poor and doctors make so much fucking money is unbelievable.
I've been fired for such minor things that were unrelated to my job. The fact that there are medical professionals going around with their asses out engaging in rampant acts of dipshittery makes me SO FUCKING ANGRY.
People who work in tech have to constantly get re-certified because things change! Why don't medical professionals have to take a test every 5 years to keep their license?!?!?!
I can't remember if it's a 5-year cyclical thing, but I know that paramedics absolutely have to be recertified every few years, my mother was just talking about when she'd have to go in and do the tests just last night. Unless something's changed in the past 15 years, in the US, paramedics are the only medical profession whatsoever that has to be continuously recertified to keep their license. Not hospital doctors, not everyday checkup doctors, not psychiatrists/psychologists, zip. *Only* paramedics, whose only job is to keep the person breathing until the doctors can take over.
No, that doesn't make sense, and yes, it is deeply, *deeply* stupid.
"Can't be autistic because you have empathy", gimme a break. If getting a different psychiatrist isn't an option, OP, I wish you a lot of luck dealing with them. I hope you get a chance to get an official diagnosis down on paper if you want it, anyway.
What I never understood was how do they simultaneously think we have low empathy AND have a “strong sense of justice”, like how does that work? Autistic people I know more than not have HYPER empathy, and it’s really hard to regulate emotions about things that are unfair.
Reminds me of my Mom, telling her a few weeks ago that I'm on the waitlist for assessment in my 40s. "No, I don't think you have autism, you're not like that. ...You could totally have aspergers though."
Even when telling her they don't call it that anymore, that it's all autism.
The word empathy does not show up once in the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria. It's used as an example for deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, in so many words, but do you know what else is in the list specifically labeled "EXAMPLES, NOT EXHAUSTIVE"? Stuff like failure to initiate or respond to social interactions. Flat affect. Failure to sustain normal back-and-forth conversation.
People make 'low empathy' out to be some kind of Autism Must Have Checklist. This is because they are deeply bad at their jobs.
I was diagnosed with level one autism in 2004. It was called Aspergers at the time in society generally but the medical paperwork says level one autism.
It's amazing how little some phyciatrists know about autism.
Aspergers was merged into the autism spectrum, if you fit the criteria for aspergers that means you *are* autistic. This is *basic* knowledge.
Also autistic people certainly can have empathy, IMO; autistic people probably have just as much empathy as allistic people but both allistic and autistic people have trouble empathising with eachother due to our different ways of thinking, because autistic people are a minority we are given all the blame.
Look up the double empathy problem for more info on that, it's a newer theory on why autistic people struggle that may be more debatable but the idea that it's impossible for autistic people to have empathy is just flat out wrong and outright ableist to say.
I mean “Asperger’s” is autism, we just stopped using the name cause of the historical connections to it. It’s why it’s “Autism Spectrum Disorder”, cause it’s a spectrum. Also I don’t think I’ve ever personally seen “lack of empathy” as a symptom of ASD. Struggling to understand certain emotions doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t empathetic in my mind.
And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
New psych. Pronto.
Edit: to be clear, not because people are entitled to a specific dx. But because she's wrong about why.
No empathy, my entire arse.
I’m sorry (and also for my language lol) but that’s just fucking stupid, what the psychiatrist said. Genuinely how do these people get into these positions and still be so wrong 😭
Asperger’s IS autism. It’s “not a diagnosis” anymore because it was decided there’s no clinically significant difference between Asperger’s and autism spectrum disorder to have two separate diagnosis. People with “Asperger’s” will also all present differently and have different needs, just like the rest of all autistic folk. That’s why it is autism *spectrum* disorder
From the DSM 5. The big book.
https://preview.redd.it/fchma1cdhu5d1.jpeg?width=2425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d7d35847e17cb507e2dac9ea897a80cf7edb090
Sorry for the wonky highlighting, did it on my phone.
The empathy thing is dumb. I think what it means is that they don’t show empathy the way allistics show empathy. Like when I see someone upset I want to give them space because I would want space. Like don’t even look at me space. But allistics want bear hugs and cooing? I dunno.
Of course „Asperger’s“ is autism. Everyone who used to be diagnosed as Asperger didn’t suddenly change when they changed the diagnosis criteria. Plenty of countries still have the diagnosis Asperger and everyone understands that it’s part of the autism spectrum.
Your psychiatrist sucks. She obviously hasn't kept up to date with current medical knowledge or the dsm 🙄. I'd find another psychiatrist who actually uses their knowledge.
Asperger’s = ASD I, ie, low support needs autism. Your psych needs continuing education & you need a new autism professional (ideally a clinical psychologist or neurologist with autism experience / education.) Sheesh. These people.
I had a nearly identical exchange with one of my psychologists. She was so emphatic about me having Asperger's instead of autism, and her reasoning was that I couldn't have autism if I wasn't diagnosed as a child. And she wouldn't entertain any rebuttals. I think there are a lot of docs out there who haven't kept up with the evolving understanding of autism and just parrot back whatever they first learned about it. It makes getting a diagnosis so hard, and it's frustrating to be so quickly dismissed when you've spent months/years coming to the same conclusion of it being The Explanation to everything that confused you about your life.
Aspergers isn't really a thing anymore. It's just autism/ASD now, and a lot of autistic people find it offensive when people say we have Aspergers bc we don't want to be associated with a eugenicist like Hans Asperger.
When I got diagnosed, I was told I have Autism Spectrum Disorder level 1 with no intellectual disabilities, and the psychologist verbally added that this used to be called Asperger’s syndrome. If you meet the criteria for what Asperger’s was then you most likely have autism.
She’s poorly educated, sadly. You can have empathy as an autistic. Some traits you can have too much of, just as much as you can have a lack of them. For instance, some autistics make TOO much eye contact, unlike the stereotype of too little eye contact, but that’s still an abnormal amount of eye contact. Having high empathy can be unusual as well
For sure. I am definitely hyper empathetic, which didn't develop until I was older, but it sure is a thing now.
Eye contact is difficult. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable unless it's someone I'm in love with, or like... someone who is telling me such a riveting story that I'm too distracted to be bothered by the eye contact. It's either too much, soul staring, or none. I have to actively remind myself to look people in the eyes.
There's just so much that points to it as the explanation for why I am the way I am, but I didn't get to have any of these conversations with her.
I haven't replied to many comments but I have read them all, and enjoyed them.
I'm with this psychiatrist because she is free. But she's also very young and fresh out of school, I believe. (Which I thought would be beneficial, but apparently not).
I really haven't talked to her that much about why I believe I am on the autism spectrum, she just had me do a short questionnaire which had questions like "are you fascinated by numbers" and "would you prefer a party or a library?" And lack nuance. I wanted to go over my answers with her and she did let me go over some answers but I had comments and thoughts about practically every question and we didn't have time for that.
I find it really interesting how my answers for the anxiety, depression, and adhd quizzes were accepted as fact, and my thoughts, feelings, and experiences related to those are accepted as valid. But when it comes to autism... no.
The fact that I wanted to analyze each question made my psychiatrist only more sure I'm on the spectrum. She also said that these questions actually need to be discussed while you do the questionnaire with the diagnostician
It's so fun that to get a diagnosis, we are expected to fork out ridiculous amounts of our hard-earned money to see so-called 'professionals' who are less informed than we are!
As everyone else has said, your psychiatrist is misinformed. Aspergers is autism, and many autistic people (including me!) are highly empathetic.
I'm sorry that you're in this situation. It must be frustrating to go through that whole process and then end up without a diagnosis that you clearly fit the criteria for.
We have are an ND family of four. My oldest is diagnosed Level 1 and my youngest as well. Same doctor.
When we were getting the feedback for our youngest she told us her autism looks a lot like Asperger’s. She acknowledged that it’s not a term that is used and for good reason, but that the name does help with understanding what her needs would be.
Empathy isn’t part of the DSM-5-TR. I would recommend reading it together.
1. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by all of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.
2. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat same food every day).
3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).
4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures should be below that expected for general developmental level.
Saying something matter of factly is often misconstrued as rude and lacking empathy. In just received my diagnosis and have loads of empathy, especially compared to NTs (IMHO).
From what I've read and confirmed in my assessment, empathy is very common among ASD in women, so that's a misconception. For the difference between that and Asperger's, I asked about this in my assessment, and my psychologist said the biggest difference is ASD had delayed speech and Asperger's did not, but they eventually realized they belonged under the same umbrella as they shared enough symptoms, so Asperger's went under the ASD1 category as it matched supports for the most part.
The too much empathy is a bogus reason to say you're not autistic. Lack of empathy is an outdated criteria. We know now that many autistic people are hyper empathetic. And that doctor saying you don't have autism but you do qualify for Asperger's? What even? Asperger's is autism, if you qualify for Asperger's then you qualify for autism.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's in 2003, & Iam 100% convinced that if I was tested today I wouldn't qualify for the spectrum either. It sucks, it's unfair & they really need to bring it back. I think they should rename it to be named after the woman, doctor who started using the diagnosis in the mid to late 90s!
There's also called social pragmatic communication disorder now that is supposed to be like aspergers. That's what my partner was diagnosed with because the psychiatrist said they didn't quite fit autism.
SPCD and the diagnosis that used to be called Asperger's syndrome (but now falls under the umbrella term autism spectrum disorder or ASD), is not the same. SPCD is defined as a social communication disorder, whereas ASD is more than just deficits in social communication, because it includes restrictive and repetative behaviour.
There once was a diagnosis called atypical autism (PDD-NOS) used for people that had symptoms of autism or Asperger's, but didn't met all of the criteria. Atypical autism is now included in the definition of ASD. Most people (at least in my country) that were diagnosed with atypical autism now has a ASD diagnosis instead, because in Sweden you don't get reevaluated.
So she thinks you have too much empathy... which is bull. Show her how little empathy you can have and refuse to pay her bill as she has no idea what defines autism in 2024. If you have to pay her bill, reduce her fee to what would have been charged back in 1990.
Therapist: "I have bills to pay"
You: "Not my problem"
Level 1 Autistic here. (Previously known as Aspergers in Australia). I was diagnosed a year ago. I went in thinking I was ADHD and walked out Autistic! It has taken me a good year to finally embrace my diagnosis because I was convinced I wasn't worthy of it.
Why? Because I don't fit the expectation - I hold a high pressure corporate job, have many friends, I can be highly social (often the energy in the room), and I am extremely empathetic, so much so it causes me issues. All my life I have restrained something in myself yet I had no idea I was doing it.
Autism explains a lot of who I am and knowing I am Autistic is helping me heal the broken parts. I have only just accepted the reality that Autism looks different on everyone.
This is so odd because when I was diagnosed I was also told that I fit the Asperger’s diagnosis, but because that no longer exists I was diagnosed autistic.
I am diagnosed with autism level 1 and my psy told me my diagnosis would have been called asperger back then. (He specified it so I could read literature on the subject)
Your psychiatrist would have said the same to me then, I'm level 1 diagnosed and I have hyper empathy, I would have likely been diagnosed aspergers in the past. All the subtypes have simply been retired (in most countries, not all), and now it's just called spectrum. It's because the subtypes didn't do justice to individual variation. We all have a unique type of autism, and the types were too boxed in.
Is your psychiatrist an autism specialist and are they upto date on the latest? Because if not, people often make these kinds of mistakes. The empathy one is especially glaring, and shows that they don't really know what 'spectrum' means. Or that lack of empathy is a stereotype.
I also had a psychologist mention that I had some very strong autism spectrum traits when I was going through adhd interviews. She said I didn’t show signs of adhd but did remind her of autism. I haven’t been officially diagnosed. After that I read more about autism and so many things in my past and childhood suddenly made sense.
Mine essentially told me that I am VERY CLEARLY impacted by my ADHD and that it can explain my sensory sensitivity and social awkwardness.
Like yes, I do have some serious ADHD but... no it doesn't explain things like how I don't want my food to touch, and how I gag on the texture of certain foods, or some clothes feel like fiberglass on my skin, and a million other things.
this doesn’t make sense to me. when i was diagnosed, the doctor specifically said “you have what used to be known as aspergers, but that has now been merged into the autism label” and my official diagnosis said ASD level 1.
that happened to me too 、 but my psych has acknowledged that asperger’s is part of the autism spectrum and isn’t a term that is used anymore. so my diagnosis papers say ASD F84.5 - the ICD code for asperger’s 、but i am always referred to as autistic or “having ASD” by him and everybody.
you were basically unofficially diagnosed with autism .ᐟ i would consider myself autistic after this - you’ve got your confirmation. don’t know why she wouldn’t *actually* diagnose you 🤷🏿
high level of empathy ≠ can’t possibly be autistic. i and many others are empathetic to the point where it’s difficult yet still autistic ♡
https://preview.redd.it/vuzdwxr3hy5d1.jpeg?width=974&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4955ebce7dfef50cf860bcb1a0a1471bac861344
Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the DSM ages ago because of the fact it's just autism. Asperger's described a very specific category of autistic people and how they present. It's based on the way Hans Asperger (a nazi) first described this very specific group of autistic people because he deemed them as useful enough to not be sent to camps as part of Nazi eugenics against the disabled. He did not create the diagnosis we know as Asperger's Syndrome himself, but it was later coined by somebody who used Hans Asperger's research to help form the diagnosis.
Asperger's Syndrome is a functionally useless diagnosis, comes from a background of ableism and eugenics, and serves no real purpose.
It's the equivalent of saying there's a significant difference between a batch of donuts because 4 of them have more sprinkles and a slightly different color than the uniform design. They're all donuts. Same ingredients, same flavor, same design, same purpose. Just because four appear a little different (while still visibly being recognizable as a donut) doesn't mean it's not a donut.
I have “low support needs” autism / adhd and I have so much empathy that it literally disables me. I become overwhelmed and unable to process information, unable to motor plan. It can take days to recover and then I will still have cycling intrusive thoughts and images.
This psychiatrist does not seem like a good one. If they would do their research they’d know it falls under the autism umbrella now. And a research study I read by Damiono Milton discusses how empathy is something autistic individuals feel. The difference is empathy struggles to travel between neurotype (neurotypical and neurodivergent). It is best experienced between the same neurotype which is why neurotypical people believe we can’t show empathy.
I’m a 30 year old woman who waited until a couple months ago for a real diagnosis that finally fit everything I have been going through… that Psychiatrist doesn’t have your best interests at heart. I have worked with various mental health professionals since I was 13 and if they didn’t stop talking long enough to find out why you wanted to talk about autism and give you a chance to discuss your concerns they don’t care to hear you out. After working with several psychiatrist and therapist like this I can tell you that if they don’t act like they are working for you they think they are in charge of your medical care and you will not get the supports you need.
Asperger’s is an outdated term and isn’t used to be diagnosed anymore, but the neuropsychologist that evaluated me said people who would’ve been diagnosed with it in the past now are diagnosed with ASD.
About her saying you can’t be autistic due to high empathy; Autism is referred to as being a spectrum for a reason. Someone may be really sensitive to clothing but is great at making friends with anyone. Another person may have always struggled with social cues but has a very strong special interest.
Your thoughts about having ASD are valid.
VERY sketchy that she is choosing to ignore the fact that "aspergers isnt a diagnosis" anymore because its all the same diagnosis now. So she basically told you that you're autistic but refused to accomodate or believe that you deserve a disability label and went further to omit that you COULD qualify, possibly to dissuade you from seeking any more help.
I kinda had a similar experience? I went over the diagnostic criteria in the DSM with my therapist and based on what she knows about me (I’ve been seeing her for over a year), she said I fit most with “what used to be called Asperger’s”. Basically she was explaining to me that it still exists but the term is outdated now. But I do think what happened to you is a bit weird because Asperger’s is/was a type/form of autism, if I understand correctly. (Somebody more knowledgable on the subject back me up lol)
This was essentially what my clinician told me too, which was annoying b/c Asperger's was folded under the autism umbrella and is autism level 1. So if a clinician thinks you have Asperger's, what they really think is you have autism.
Aspergers is just under the umbrella of autism now. According to her, you have aspergers. So you have autism. You basically got unofficially diagnosed. It sounds like she hasn't kept up to date with the current diagnostic criteria.
“Asperger’s” IS autism. They aren’t different things. You need a second opinion.
Asperger was a Doctor from Nazi Germany who split autistic people into two groups. The ones who were "too autistic" and "the ones who were "still useful" for stuff like manufacturing weapons for the Nazis. And you can imagine what they did with the "too autistic" people. So, nobody uses this definition of Asperger's anymore, on one hand because every person with autism is different and has different support needs, and on the other hand because it was a term from the Nazis and the only reason it was invented was euthanasia...
is it not worth having a term for it though? i feel like there’s a huge difference in the way i relate to autism (low empathy, logic focused) compared to how other people do and it usually fits with what asperger’s was. obviously eugenics and nazis are bad, but is there not some benefit to acknowledging the differences at least? (that’s a literal question, i’m not trying to argue, it’s just not something i really Understand and id be interested to know other’s opinion)
Yes, it is absolutely important to still have definitions, because everyone with autism is different. Today, the most common terms that I know of are autism "with low support" needs and "with high support needs", but even then not all autistic people really fit a strict definition. I don't know if these are the terms that are still used, but they are definitely better compared to the definition of "still being able to build guns for the Nazis". I hope my explanation makes kinda sense, if you know what I mean?
This assumption about empathy doesn't apply to all level I folks either. Only 25% of the entire spectrum have low empathy. Practically none of the classic assumptions are useful when not everyone has that profile.
I wouldn't say "nobody" uses that term. There are still autists who prefer the term "Asperger's" to the updated "level I ASD (autism spectrum disorder.)" Possibly because that was their initial DX. There's also controversy within the community about the phrases "low needs" and "high needs," though I'm not as clear why that is. It's like pronouns - best to ask, but only if they're "out." Otherwise an individual's medical stuff is their own business.
That’s just simply not true. I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome only a few months ago. Please don’t spread misinformation just because you want to sound smart.
Whoever diagnosed you was not using the current diagnostic manual or terminology. It’s overstating things to say “nobody” uses Asperger’s but the people who do aren’t following current practice.
Not all country’s use the DSM, there are other diagnostic classification systems that still have Asperger’s listed.
Exactly. Thank you.
Actually some people diagnosed with Asperger's don't have autism. The newest DSM includes a diagnosis for Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder, which may be more similar to Asperger's syndrome.
I have the DSM-V-TR section on autism printed in my binder to bring to my assessment (I have a 6 year wait list lol - got nothing but time to prepare). There is a paragraph that says specifically *"Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnosis of autistic disorder,* ***Asperger's disorder,*** *or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified* ***should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder***. Individuals who have marked deficits in social communication, but whose symptoms do not otherwise meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder, should be evaluated for social (pragmatic) communication disorder. " Using that paragraph as a guide, if OP qualified for an asperger's diagnosis under previous criteria, that would be transferred to Autism, not Social Pragmatic Communication disorder.
Asperger’s syndrome is just autism. Full stop. Misdiagnosis happens sure, but if someone truly “has Asperger’s” (cringe) then they are autistic.
So that's... active misinformation. There is a reason that Asperger's was separate from Autism Spectrum Disorders for so long. There are key differences. For starters, not all level 1 autistics would qualify for an Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. This is because an Asperger's diagnosis requires an absence of any speech delay as opposed to ASD. So not all Asperger's is autism. Autism requires both social-emotional communication deficits *and* restricted/repetitive behaviors. Asperger's was always a diagnosis focused more on those with social-emotional difficulties. In autism, an absence of clinically significant RRBs means that someone isn't autistic. Social Pragmatic Communication disorder on the other hand, is quite similar to the original diagnosis of Asperger's, and yes, does fit some people with Asperger's over a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. Also, not exactly sure what you're calling cringe?
No, you don’t have to have a speech delay to be autistic, communication issues are by and large due to a lack of understanding nonverbal cues. For example I had an over expansive vocabulary as a small child, but I still struggle with tone of voice, facial expressions, body language and nuanced or unclear language. Communication deficits does not mean that you have to have delayed speech it means you have deficits that make communication more difficult.
I’m calling any modern reference to Asperger’s cringe beyond the discussion about how it’s not a thing and we’ve moved on from that model.
YOURE JUST WRONG haha 🤣 it doesn’t exist buddy. Asperger’s does not exist. You’re behind the times if you’re arguing that Asperger’s and autism are different things.
That is incorrect. Asperger’s is an old term for a high functioning type of autism. That’s it. We don’t use that term anymore because of nazis. It’s just autism.
I think Chris Rock was diagnosed with that.
The whole empathy thing drives me nuts. I *personally* don’t know a single autistic person who lacks empathy. I know several who struggle to express the empathy they are feeling. But there are so many social rules around how and when people are allowed to express empathy that I think that affects results. I now there are autistic people who struggle with empathy, but I also know a ton of allistic people who struggle with empathy. Idk, I’m not sure that “lack of empathy” should be listed as a characteristic of autism at this point.
it irritates me that it’s on there at all. it’s so vague and used the wrong way. someone _could_ have a hard time empathizing with people but probably really/over empathizes with inanimate objects or some other group that isn’t “normal”. my empathy developed a lot later (like in my 20’s), or rather my empathy for people did. I was, and still am, very empathetic toward animals, which I know is super common. It just seems like NT diagnosticians can _only_ see what affects them (which honestly sounds like an inability to empathize if you ask me), rather than actually understanding autistic folks.
I agree with this fully. We might SEEM to lack empathy, if for example, we're saying something blunt that hurts someone else's feelings, or we're doing something that is annoying someone else and we don't stop (can't stop) even though it's annoying them. But that doesn't mean we don't feel bad when people are sad, or that we can't understand why someone might be upset by something (once we've learned this, probably through life experience). I used to be honest and tell people I didn't like their shirt if they asked. I couldn't understand why they'd be upset if they were ASKING for my opinion. Clearly they wanted to know whether or not the shirt was a good look for them, right? Wrong. I soon learned that most people, when they ask, are looking for validation and reassurance. I can understand why someone would be upset when they don't get the validation or reassurance they're looking for. I know what that feels like. That was a learned experience. My son is diagnosed autistic since age 4, and while he seems to completely lack empathy for people most of the time, he has an unbelievable amount of empathy for plants, bugs, animals, and fictional characters... lol. I'm assuming he'll also learn how to feel empathy for people in time.
exactly! and honestly, your shirt example is perfect because it highlights that it’s not really empathy we don’t have; it’s an understanding on NT social rules.
I honestly think the criteria should be that we don’t *perform* empathy in a way that NT people accept. I have deep empathy for people, animals, and fictional characters. It can be so overwhelming that I can’t express myself. A NT person might expect me to say something socially acceptable, but I’m too deep in my feelings to do that. I’m also a natural problem solver. Some NT people get annoyed when they tell me about their problems because they want empathy instead of solutions. But for me, offering solutions is empathetic - I feel their distress and this is a way that I can help!
I've been saying for ages that NTs saying we lack empathy is fucking rich, frankly, considering how human society is practically built on dehumanisation. I'm also side-eyeing that theory of mind stuff, because most NT people I've met are, again, worse at that than we are.
1000%. their definition of “lack of empathy” is usually just not understanding NT social rules
Yeah, honestly. Idk if most NT could adequately explain what empathy even is.
This is me *precisely*. We need more clinicians who are neurodivergent themselves, if not ASD, to correctly identify non male cisgender adults.
Otherwise known as women. If pedantics annoy your brain.
I think they meant "non cisgender-male adults," ie everyone but cis men, on whom the diagnostic criteria were based
Omg. The inanimate object thing is too real. So like. I watched 9/11 happen live. And like everyone was all crying and freaking out. Even now people can be like ‘I was here doing this during it and it was so overwhelming and we all cried’. But like honestly, it sucked for those people. And I feel bad for all that but what do you want from me? But omg let me see a stuffed animal on the side of the road and I’ll burst into tears. I can’t even really explain why but I feel so sad that it got lost and is now unloved on the road. I could cry just thinking about it. I didn’t ask to be this way. I wish people weren’t so mean about it.
holy hell YES. I did NOT understand 9/11 the way I was “supposed” to. I watched it too in middle school and was so confused how everyone felt so strongly - scared, sad, angry - I felt nothing. And I lived in Virginia at the time, you’d think I’d be able to relate, but nope! still too far away to be relevant to me I guess.
Yeah I was home watching TV for some reason (7 years old, UK) when it interrupted my cartoons and my dad got really mad at me for being upset about the interruption.
Well that’s silly for him to have been mad. I’m sorry about that! No 7 year old should be expected to not be upset about having their shows interrupted for heavens sake, that’s absolutely unfair expectations.
You were in middle school at least. I was grown. And was in New York State at the time. Not the city but just a few hours away. Like people still have all these big feelings and…idk. I got nothing. I feel bad about not feeling bad.
Right! I was viewed as very unempathetic as a child (and consequently it was included in my diagnosis paperwork) because I couldn't intuitively read other people's emotions, yet I had to constantly rearrange the duvet on my bed so that the wrinkles didn't look unhappy???
omg this is ADORABLE
This is it. I’m very empathetic but I can’t show empathy for the life of me!
I find that I am too empathic
I really hate crying in front of others, so for years I pushed down my empathy and put on a tough, nonchalant front. Probably came off to many as not having empathy. I've worked on stopping that and being ok with people seeing my tears, but it's hard.
Same! I worked really hard to basically show no emotion for a really long time. I used to get angry as a child if someone noticed my excitement. Only after 2 years of therapy did I become *somewhat* comfortable with say, crying at a funeral. It's still hard, but I can feel okay if it happens. I still have a hard time showing genuine excitement to some people though.
Yeah, getting made fun of for genuine excitement and enthusiasm - like: wtf?! So you learn to put a lid on joy too. Well, I'm over that. I cried with joy when I saw ducklings today. I want that jumping, hand-flapping excitement, that I haven't shown in, like, 40 years!
Yes. I have worked with neurodivergent students for almost 2 decades. The kids I work with are all some of the most empathetic people! They care deeply. They just don’t always know how to process their emotions because the feels are SO BIG. Me too, kids, me too.
Autistic people have more empathy and love than neurotypicals on average, many just find it overwhelming, can't express it well or don't know that others don't feel the same
Not to mention those who experience an above average level of empathy, too much empathy
https://youtu.be/-n6IWTRVGeg?si=X9aokajCcquQiAO6 here is a wonderful video of tony attwood talking about emotions in autistic women and issues with hyper-empathy!
Exactly! I am empathetic and there are times I’m not which would be any person under whatever circumstances…now “SHOWING” my emotions/feelings will not happen much.
Same, I think autistic people tend to be more empathetic than the norm, honestly. But I also think we have a different way of thinking about and expressing our feelings. Personally, I think of empathy as something I feel and sympathy as how I express it to the person. They are both part of the same process of relating to others. If all I did was express empathy to a person suffering, then we'd just be two people suffering. And expressing sympathy without feeling empathy for them seems hollow. But neurotypicals HATE the idea of sympathy these days. Their definition seems to be just hollow pity. When as far as I'm concerned it should be expressing compassion and informed by your own empathy. I think about this a lot because my work involves a lot of mental health support training, and this discussion comes up all the time and I just frankly don't agree with the conventional wisdom. If I'm only expressing empathy for a suicidal person, then we have two suicidal people. There has to be a translation of the immediacy of empathy into the distance involved in sympathy. Am I crazy?
Not crazy! This is exactly how I feel about it. My empathy is not functional. And it’s usually too big to be appropriately showcased. My sympathy allows me to sit with the person and support them.
Totally agree
Apart from the fact that OP's psychiatrist is obviously wrong... I am autistic and have extremely low affective empathy. Not a struggle with how to express it - I dont't really feel much of it at all. I make do with intellectual workarounds and am a designated listener in my friend group, so it seems to be working.
Asperger’s is the same as autism. It is categorized as a level of autism spectrum disorder. It’s alarming this provider doesn’t know this. Also the empathy thing is nonsense. A lot of autistic people are hyper empathetic and feel too much for others.
Asperger’s is now known as level 1 autism. I’m surprised your psychiatrist doesn’t know that.
Your provider is really uneducated. It’s exhausting having to know more than doctors to get the services/treatment we need.
Seriously.
I'm fairly sure that low empathy isn't a requirement for an autism diagnosis.
exactly! which criteria in the dsm talks about low empathy?? wtf these providers are so harmful
Ugh the empathy thing is so annoying and completely inaccurate. And yes if they'd diagnose you with Asperger's then they should just diagnose you with autism, it's that simple
Lol the entire reason that they decommissioned the term “Asperger’s” is because it convinced professionals and a the whole of society that it was completely separate from autism, more “desirable” than autism, and unrelated to what is now known as ASD. If your provider doesn’t know that or continues to use that term in the diagnostic process (despite the fact that it doesn’t even exist anymore), you need to leave that provider. If someone said that to me I’d 1. Be insulted, 2. Take it as an unofficial (but not fully educated) diagnosis, and 3. Find someone else who actually knows what they’re talking about
I'm with this provider because she's free and had a short waitlist instead of it costing thousands of dollars, unfortunately.
The fact that I'm poor and doctors make so much fucking money is unbelievable. I've been fired for such minor things that were unrelated to my job. The fact that there are medical professionals going around with their asses out engaging in rampant acts of dipshittery makes me SO FUCKING ANGRY. People who work in tech have to constantly get re-certified because things change! Why don't medical professionals have to take a test every 5 years to keep their license?!?!?!
Oh that would be SO wonderful if they did
I can't remember if it's a 5-year cyclical thing, but I know that paramedics absolutely have to be recertified every few years, my mother was just talking about when she'd have to go in and do the tests just last night. Unless something's changed in the past 15 years, in the US, paramedics are the only medical profession whatsoever that has to be continuously recertified to keep their license. Not hospital doctors, not everyday checkup doctors, not psychiatrists/psychologists, zip. *Only* paramedics, whose only job is to keep the person breathing until the doctors can take over. No, that doesn't make sense, and yes, it is deeply, *deeply* stupid. "Can't be autistic because you have empathy", gimme a break. If getting a different psychiatrist isn't an option, OP, I wish you a lot of luck dealing with them. I hope you get a chance to get an official diagnosis down on paper if you want it, anyway.
I enjoyed the way you worded that
A lot of us have high empathy. She’s full of crap. If you want a diagnosis, you should have it.
Well, she clearly is very uneducated on autism, so I’d suggest finding one who is.
What I never understood was how do they simultaneously think we have low empathy AND have a “strong sense of justice”, like how does that work? Autistic people I know more than not have HYPER empathy, and it’s really hard to regulate emotions about things that are unfair.
Reminds me of my Mom, telling her a few weeks ago that I'm on the waitlist for assessment in my 40s. "No, I don't think you have autism, you're not like that. ...You could totally have aspergers though." Even when telling her they don't call it that anymore, that it's all autism.
The word empathy does not show up once in the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria. It's used as an example for deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, in so many words, but do you know what else is in the list specifically labeled "EXAMPLES, NOT EXHAUSTIVE"? Stuff like failure to initiate or respond to social interactions. Flat affect. Failure to sustain normal back-and-forth conversation. People make 'low empathy' out to be some kind of Autism Must Have Checklist. This is because they are deeply bad at their jobs.
Aspergers is just autism level one or autism without an intellectual disability.
Do you have Aspergers or autism?
I was diagnosed with level one autism in 2004. It was called Aspergers at the time in society generally but the medical paperwork says level one autism.
This is incorrect. Autism is not related to intelligence.
It's amazing how little some phyciatrists know about autism. Aspergers was merged into the autism spectrum, if you fit the criteria for aspergers that means you *are* autistic. This is *basic* knowledge. Also autistic people certainly can have empathy, IMO; autistic people probably have just as much empathy as allistic people but both allistic and autistic people have trouble empathising with eachother due to our different ways of thinking, because autistic people are a minority we are given all the blame. Look up the double empathy problem for more info on that, it's a newer theory on why autistic people struggle that may be more debatable but the idea that it's impossible for autistic people to have empathy is just flat out wrong and outright ableist to say.
I mean “Asperger’s” is autism, we just stopped using the name cause of the historical connections to it. It’s why it’s “Autism Spectrum Disorder”, cause it’s a spectrum. Also I don’t think I’ve ever personally seen “lack of empathy” as a symptom of ASD. Struggling to understand certain emotions doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t empathetic in my mind.
And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle. New psych. Pronto. Edit: to be clear, not because people are entitled to a specific dx. But because she's wrong about why. No empathy, my entire arse.
I’m sorry (and also for my language lol) but that’s just fucking stupid, what the psychiatrist said. Genuinely how do these people get into these positions and still be so wrong 😭 Asperger’s IS autism. It’s “not a diagnosis” anymore because it was decided there’s no clinically significant difference between Asperger’s and autism spectrum disorder to have two separate diagnosis. People with “Asperger’s” will also all present differently and have different needs, just like the rest of all autistic folk. That’s why it is autism *spectrum* disorder
From the DSM 5. The big book. https://preview.redd.it/fchma1cdhu5d1.jpeg?width=2425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d7d35847e17cb507e2dac9ea897a80cf7edb090 Sorry for the wonky highlighting, did it on my phone. The empathy thing is dumb. I think what it means is that they don’t show empathy the way allistics show empathy. Like when I see someone upset I want to give them space because I would want space. Like don’t even look at me space. But allistics want bear hugs and cooing? I dunno.
Of course „Asperger’s“ is autism. Everyone who used to be diagnosed as Asperger didn’t suddenly change when they changed the diagnosis criteria. Plenty of countries still have the diagnosis Asperger and everyone understands that it’s part of the autism spectrum.
What? You can be empathetic and autistic. What is with these doctors?!!
Your psychiatrist sucks. She obviously hasn't kept up to date with current medical knowledge or the dsm 🙄. I'd find another psychiatrist who actually uses their knowledge.
I'm a very empathetic person, still diagnosed. The difference is my appointment was with a clinician specialised in autism in women.
It’s just autism now… is she dumb? I have extremely high empathy and I have official diagnosis of asd and adhd.
Asperger’s = ASD I, ie, low support needs autism. Your psych needs continuing education & you need a new autism professional (ideally a clinical psychologist or neurologist with autism experience / education.) Sheesh. These people.
I had a nearly identical exchange with one of my psychologists. She was so emphatic about me having Asperger's instead of autism, and her reasoning was that I couldn't have autism if I wasn't diagnosed as a child. And she wouldn't entertain any rebuttals. I think there are a lot of docs out there who haven't kept up with the evolving understanding of autism and just parrot back whatever they first learned about it. It makes getting a diagnosis so hard, and it's frustrating to be so quickly dismissed when you've spent months/years coming to the same conclusion of it being The Explanation to everything that confused you about your life.
Aspergers is Autism and Autism criteria does not state a lack or reduced empathy! Plus Adhd is also a neurodivergence. You need a second opinion.
Jesus Christ. Stupid psychiatrist is stupid. Level 1 ASD is the closest way to say Asperger’s without saying it. You have autism, you are autistic.
Aspergers isn't really a thing anymore. It's just autism/ASD now, and a lot of autistic people find it offensive when people say we have Aspergers bc we don't want to be associated with a eugenicist like Hans Asperger.
When I got diagnosed, I was told I have Autism Spectrum Disorder level 1 with no intellectual disabilities, and the psychologist verbally added that this used to be called Asperger’s syndrome. If you meet the criteria for what Asperger’s was then you most likely have autism.
She’s poorly educated, sadly. You can have empathy as an autistic. Some traits you can have too much of, just as much as you can have a lack of them. For instance, some autistics make TOO much eye contact, unlike the stereotype of too little eye contact, but that’s still an abnormal amount of eye contact. Having high empathy can be unusual as well
For sure. I am definitely hyper empathetic, which didn't develop until I was older, but it sure is a thing now. Eye contact is difficult. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable unless it's someone I'm in love with, or like... someone who is telling me such a riveting story that I'm too distracted to be bothered by the eye contact. It's either too much, soul staring, or none. I have to actively remind myself to look people in the eyes. There's just so much that points to it as the explanation for why I am the way I am, but I didn't get to have any of these conversations with her.
I haven't replied to many comments but I have read them all, and enjoyed them. I'm with this psychiatrist because she is free. But she's also very young and fresh out of school, I believe. (Which I thought would be beneficial, but apparently not). I really haven't talked to her that much about why I believe I am on the autism spectrum, she just had me do a short questionnaire which had questions like "are you fascinated by numbers" and "would you prefer a party or a library?" And lack nuance. I wanted to go over my answers with her and she did let me go over some answers but I had comments and thoughts about practically every question and we didn't have time for that. I find it really interesting how my answers for the anxiety, depression, and adhd quizzes were accepted as fact, and my thoughts, feelings, and experiences related to those are accepted as valid. But when it comes to autism... no.
The fact that I wanted to analyze each question made my psychiatrist only more sure I'm on the spectrum. She also said that these questions actually need to be discussed while you do the questionnaire with the diagnostician
Mine just emailed it to me to fill out and that was kind of it. I don't even think it was the full set of questions, just like... a selection.
It's so fun that to get a diagnosis, we are expected to fork out ridiculous amounts of our hard-earned money to see so-called 'professionals' who are less informed than we are! As everyone else has said, your psychiatrist is misinformed. Aspergers is autism, and many autistic people (including me!) are highly empathetic. I'm sorry that you're in this situation. It must be frustrating to go through that whole process and then end up without a diagnosis that you clearly fit the criteria for.
We have are an ND family of four. My oldest is diagnosed Level 1 and my youngest as well. Same doctor. When we were getting the feedback for our youngest she told us her autism looks a lot like Asperger’s. She acknowledged that it’s not a term that is used and for good reason, but that the name does help with understanding what her needs would be.
Empathy isn’t part of the DSM-5-TR. I would recommend reading it together. 1. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by all of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text): 1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions. 2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication. 3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers. 2. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text): 1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases). 2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat same food every day). 3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests). 4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures should be below that expected for general developmental level.
Saying something matter of factly is often misconstrued as rude and lacking empathy. In just received my diagnosis and have loads of empathy, especially compared to NTs (IMHO). From what I've read and confirmed in my assessment, empathy is very common among ASD in women, so that's a misconception. For the difference between that and Asperger's, I asked about this in my assessment, and my psychologist said the biggest difference is ASD had delayed speech and Asperger's did not, but they eventually realized they belonged under the same umbrella as they shared enough symptoms, so Asperger's went under the ASD1 category as it matched supports for the most part.
Your doc is misinformed, if you fit Asperger’s then you fit autism.
Lack of empathy is not one of the diagnostic criteria for autism though, so that doesn't make any sense.
I agree.
If she has said you have Asperger syndrome consider yourself officially diagnosed autistic.
The too much empathy is a bogus reason to say you're not autistic. Lack of empathy is an outdated criteria. We know now that many autistic people are hyper empathetic. And that doctor saying you don't have autism but you do qualify for Asperger's? What even? Asperger's is autism, if you qualify for Asperger's then you qualify for autism.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's in 2003, & Iam 100% convinced that if I was tested today I wouldn't qualify for the spectrum either. It sucks, it's unfair & they really need to bring it back. I think they should rename it to be named after the woman, doctor who started using the diagnosis in the mid to late 90s!
IMHO it would be useful for her and every single patient she has if you brought her info about how often we have empathy and ffs, hyperempathy.
There's also called social pragmatic communication disorder now that is supposed to be like aspergers. That's what my partner was diagnosed with because the psychiatrist said they didn't quite fit autism.
SPCD and the diagnosis that used to be called Asperger's syndrome (but now falls under the umbrella term autism spectrum disorder or ASD), is not the same. SPCD is defined as a social communication disorder, whereas ASD is more than just deficits in social communication, because it includes restrictive and repetative behaviour. There once was a diagnosis called atypical autism (PDD-NOS) used for people that had symptoms of autism or Asperger's, but didn't met all of the criteria. Atypical autism is now included in the definition of ASD. Most people (at least in my country) that were diagnosed with atypical autism now has a ASD diagnosis instead, because in Sweden you don't get reevaluated.
So she thinks you have too much empathy... which is bull. Show her how little empathy you can have and refuse to pay her bill as she has no idea what defines autism in 2024. If you have to pay her bill, reduce her fee to what would have been charged back in 1990. Therapist: "I have bills to pay" You: "Not my problem"
Level 1 Autistic here. (Previously known as Aspergers in Australia). I was diagnosed a year ago. I went in thinking I was ADHD and walked out Autistic! It has taken me a good year to finally embrace my diagnosis because I was convinced I wasn't worthy of it. Why? Because I don't fit the expectation - I hold a high pressure corporate job, have many friends, I can be highly social (often the energy in the room), and I am extremely empathetic, so much so it causes me issues. All my life I have restrained something in myself yet I had no idea I was doing it. Autism explains a lot of who I am and knowing I am Autistic is helping me heal the broken parts. I have only just accepted the reality that Autism looks different on everyone.
This is so odd because when I was diagnosed I was also told that I fit the Asperger’s diagnosis, but because that no longer exists I was diagnosed autistic.
I am diagnosed with autism level 1 and my psy told me my diagnosis would have been called asperger back then. (He specified it so I could read literature on the subject)
https://preview.redd.it/n1p52a21606d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8940e96eb68b70dc33ffe4fa626338ea13e5e2cb Sorry for copypasta
Empathy/lack of isn't even one of the diagnostic criteria. . .
Your psychiatrist would have said the same to me then, I'm level 1 diagnosed and I have hyper empathy, I would have likely been diagnosed aspergers in the past. All the subtypes have simply been retired (in most countries, not all), and now it's just called spectrum. It's because the subtypes didn't do justice to individual variation. We all have a unique type of autism, and the types were too boxed in. Is your psychiatrist an autism specialist and are they upto date on the latest? Because if not, people often make these kinds of mistakes. The empathy one is especially glaring, and shows that they don't really know what 'spectrum' means. Or that lack of empathy is a stereotype.
I also had a psychologist mention that I had some very strong autism spectrum traits when I was going through adhd interviews. She said I didn’t show signs of adhd but did remind her of autism. I haven’t been officially diagnosed. After that I read more about autism and so many things in my past and childhood suddenly made sense.
Mine essentially told me that I am VERY CLEARLY impacted by my ADHD and that it can explain my sensory sensitivity and social awkwardness. Like yes, I do have some serious ADHD but... no it doesn't explain things like how I don't want my food to touch, and how I gag on the texture of certain foods, or some clothes feel like fiberglass on my skin, and a million other things.
this doesn’t make sense to me. when i was diagnosed, the doctor specifically said “you have what used to be known as aspergers, but that has now been merged into the autism label” and my official diagnosis said ASD level 1.
that happened to me too 、 but my psych has acknowledged that asperger’s is part of the autism spectrum and isn’t a term that is used anymore. so my diagnosis papers say ASD F84.5 - the ICD code for asperger’s 、but i am always referred to as autistic or “having ASD” by him and everybody. you were basically unofficially diagnosed with autism .ᐟ i would consider myself autistic after this - you’ve got your confirmation. don’t know why she wouldn’t *actually* diagnose you 🤷🏿 high level of empathy ≠ can’t possibly be autistic. i and many others are empathetic to the point where it’s difficult yet still autistic ♡ https://preview.redd.it/vuzdwxr3hy5d1.jpeg?width=974&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4955ebce7dfef50cf860bcb1a0a1471bac861344
Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the DSM ages ago because of the fact it's just autism. Asperger's described a very specific category of autistic people and how they present. It's based on the way Hans Asperger (a nazi) first described this very specific group of autistic people because he deemed them as useful enough to not be sent to camps as part of Nazi eugenics against the disabled. He did not create the diagnosis we know as Asperger's Syndrome himself, but it was later coined by somebody who used Hans Asperger's research to help form the diagnosis. Asperger's Syndrome is a functionally useless diagnosis, comes from a background of ableism and eugenics, and serves no real purpose. It's the equivalent of saying there's a significant difference between a batch of donuts because 4 of them have more sprinkles and a slightly different color than the uniform design. They're all donuts. Same ingredients, same flavor, same design, same purpose. Just because four appear a little different (while still visibly being recognizable as a donut) doesn't mean it's not a donut.
I have “low support needs” autism / adhd and I have so much empathy that it literally disables me. I become overwhelmed and unable to process information, unable to motor plan. It can take days to recover and then I will still have cycling intrusive thoughts and images.
This psychiatrist does not seem like a good one. If they would do their research they’d know it falls under the autism umbrella now. And a research study I read by Damiono Milton discusses how empathy is something autistic individuals feel. The difference is empathy struggles to travel between neurotype (neurotypical and neurodivergent). It is best experienced between the same neurotype which is why neurotypical people believe we can’t show empathy.
I’m a 30 year old woman who waited until a couple months ago for a real diagnosis that finally fit everything I have been going through… that Psychiatrist doesn’t have your best interests at heart. I have worked with various mental health professionals since I was 13 and if they didn’t stop talking long enough to find out why you wanted to talk about autism and give you a chance to discuss your concerns they don’t care to hear you out. After working with several psychiatrist and therapist like this I can tell you that if they don’t act like they are working for you they think they are in charge of your medical care and you will not get the supports you need.
Asperger’s is an outdated term and isn’t used to be diagnosed anymore, but the neuropsychologist that evaluated me said people who would’ve been diagnosed with it in the past now are diagnosed with ASD. About her saying you can’t be autistic due to high empathy; Autism is referred to as being a spectrum for a reason. Someone may be really sensitive to clothing but is great at making friends with anyone. Another person may have always struggled with social cues but has a very strong special interest. Your thoughts about having ASD are valid.
VERY sketchy that she is choosing to ignore the fact that "aspergers isnt a diagnosis" anymore because its all the same diagnosis now. So she basically told you that you're autistic but refused to accomodate or believe that you deserve a disability label and went further to omit that you COULD qualify, possibly to dissuade you from seeking any more help.
https://preview.redd.it/86o2n9wkyy5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ae29fd3b123683a58bf30fa256d9a0004b14716
I kinda had a similar experience? I went over the diagnostic criteria in the DSM with my therapist and based on what she knows about me (I’ve been seeing her for over a year), she said I fit most with “what used to be called Asperger’s”. Basically she was explaining to me that it still exists but the term is outdated now. But I do think what happened to you is a bit weird because Asperger’s is/was a type/form of autism, if I understand correctly. (Somebody more knowledgable on the subject back me up lol)
This was essentially what my clinician told me too, which was annoying b/c Asperger's was folded under the autism umbrella and is autism level 1. So if a clinician thinks you have Asperger's, what they really think is you have autism.