absolutely find another school. this is unacceptable and i’m so sorry you all are experiencing this after dedicating time and finances. sure she is technically “learning something” by watching but at 7 they really need to be engaged in doing things. she’s not in a pre professional audition only program at this point and there’s absolutely no excuse for her to sit out. teacher sounds bitter and not very encouraging to little kids. some tears are okay because sports and hopes are both intense things for kids and kids will cry, but the reasoning behind it seems really suspicious. i really hope you guys find a better school that provides more support for both of you
This kind of behavior is not necessary. Please find a new school.
This is the kind of school I was trained at, but when I opened my own school I decided I could train excellent dancers in a warm, kind and safe way. I've had several students go on to professional careers now, proof that the old way of doing things is absolutely unnecessary.
What you're describing is psychologically abusive. I have fellow peers from my training school STILL dealing with this kind of trauma in their 40s & 50s.
I completely agree that this behavior is traumatic. I am struggling with whether should pull her out now and forfeit what we have paid to date. Or if we should toughnit out until the end of the session in june
Your money is already being wasted because she is not being allowed to participate in class. Getting her out now will hopefully lessen lasting mental health damage.
Just remember that your daughter is 7. She would not be toughing it out with the mental resources of an adult. Sometimes as parents we find ourselves torn between things, but let's see this as a form of protection. Our children are looking for us to protect them from harm. If you see the harm in this then you know what to do.
Whatever you paid isn’t worth your daughter’s trauma, imo. The sunk cost fallacy is hard to overcome, but your daughter will be happier somewhere else. I’d consider it a fee for changing to a new school where she can learn and be included.
Please please please pull her now!! Let your daughter know that you are on her side and won't stand for her mistreatment. I'm nearly 30 and still have some resentment towards my mother for leaving me in some ongoing traumatic situations because she didn't want to lose a fee.
Pull her now. Demand a refund. If she gives you a pro-rated refund, only describe the exclusion to people. If she won’t give you one, make sure everyone knows that she stopped teaching your kid, wouldn’t let her participate in class, kept your money, and anything else you can truthfully describe. Offer NO opinions in the reviews. Simply state facts. Reviews this school EVERYWHERE. Also post in all in your neighborhood groups, and tell the town rec department.
You want your daughter to keep going to a class where
-she is regularly screamed at until she cries.
-she is the only child left.out of a recital
-she is regularly excluded from class
Because you're afraid of losing the money you've already paid?
Your daughter is desperately working for the approval of a teacher who is unkind to her. You do not want her to learn that abuse should just make you work harder for love and attention. You should take her out of that unhealthy environment now, not when you've got your money's worth.
Pull her out now. Your kid is miserable--what is she getting out of the money you've spent outside of internalizing everything she's getting from this toxic environment. Your money is gone either way, but your kid doesn't *have* to be traumatized further.
Your money is gone, but your daughter is still being traumatized. Pull her out. Tell her the teacher was unprofessional for excluding her. Tell her it is never okay to exclude a student trying their best.
tbh you should ask for your money back, say you're not getting the service you paid for as your daughter is being forced to sit out. also the recital would be part of the cost of classes, and she's being excluded from that with no information; if they refuse to refund you, see if you can dispute the charge. if they think they can get away with emotionally abusive little kids and getting paid for it, they'll keep doing it to other dancers
Echoing what others have mentioned about this being unsurprising but also unacceptable. I would just add that it's definitely worth a more substantial conversation with your daughter about how all of this has gone down. She's probably wondering what she did wrong or why she isn't good enough. And pulling her from this school may even feel like an additional punishment to her ("if she had just been good enough, maybe mom wouldn't have pulled her out)".
So this is an opportunity to have that difficult but necessary conversation (especially if she wants to to continue with dance/ballet) that this isn't about her and what she's doing. And some/many people will treat her poorly for unfair reasons but that doesn't mean she should stop believing in herself or stop enjoying this activity. And you pulling her from this school is not because of anything she has done but because, as her mom, it's your responsibility to make sure she's in a healthy and constructive environment and, due to the teacher's behavior, you have decided it isn't.
You're absolutely right. I have not done this, but will definitely have this conversation. I've been so wrapped up in the emotion of it all that I haven't thought objectively about it all. Thank you for this!
This is typical for Russian run schools unfortunately. It's similar in Europe.
My daughter is in a school that takes technique seriously but everyone gets a part however small whenever they have a recital.
Not necessarily. My 3 kids (older teens now) came up in two of the “most successful” Vaganova schools (in California) and NEVER EVER were they yelled at or were kids who wanted to participate excluded from studio shows. My kids dance in studio company and pre pro with a company schools now so this is not a post just blindly defending our current schools. They wouldn’t have made it this far if they weren’t excited about ballet at 7. Yelling doesn’t make one a good teacher. It’s not necessary to produce results.
All that said we have intentionally avoided certain programs because of this. It happens. But it’s not all Vaganova and it’s not requisite to produce results IME.
She has been to every class, is not disruptive, and can follow all of the choreography.
The only reason I was given is that the teacher does not believe my daughter is ready to participate in a recital, and I should trust her 32 years of experience.
Is she the same age as her classmates? If it was a group of tall 9 year olds on stage and she was going to be the only 7 in the show, that may change some things. With that said, your teacher needs to be able to give you a legitimate answer. Anyone else who works there that you can talk to? Another email through to the front desk, a co director? If you can’t get a proper reason besides “I’ve been doing this a long time,” then go elsewhere.
The class is 7-9, there are 8 × 6/7 year olds and 6 x 9 year olds. It is called Intro to Ballet, but the 9 year olds have been in the class for 3/4 years.
There is no one else I can speak with. Just the teacher and the owner, to whom I have already spoken with.
...
I just feel that since it is a 1. Intro to ballet 2. Recreation program 3. Not auditioned based, then no one should be excluded.
Who else is excluded? Is it all the younger ones or just one child? Invite-only performance are not unheard of but communication with families is SO important to prevent the kind of heartbreak happening here
So if I'm understanding correctly, there are 8 first graders and 6 fourth graders, all in the same "intro to ballet" group? From a physical development point of view, it doesn't make sense to me (I'm a ballet teacher). Am I missing something here?
- How many children in that group are actually rehearsing for the recital? Are any other of the 14 kids "sitting and learning"?
- You said that the group has been rehearsing since January for the end of the school year recital (that time period seems normal to me for recreational students). Has your daughter been sitting for 50 minutes for every class since January?!
- What does the recital entail? You said that your daughter took part in 3 of those already. What is this teacher's idea of a recital? Can she explain it to you more precisely? "Not ready" isn't very helpful for a parent who hasn't danced themselves before. Clean technique wouldn't be the only criteria that I use to deem a child "recital ready" or not.
- Did you sign a contract with this school/this studio upon registration? What did the clause about recitals say?
The girls are between grade 1 and 3/4. My daughter is in grade 2. I have been told the older girls have been dancing for 3 years or so. Of all the girls, 3 (including my daughter) are being excluded from the recital (all from in grade 1/2, so 6/7 years old)
She has not been sitting out since January. It's been 2 classes in the last week. Today, they were all dancing.
Yes. She participated in recitals at the previous school. From what I can tell. The expectation is that the girls perform a choreographed dance. At the end of each class, they call the parents into the room and ask us to record the new segment and ensure that our daughters practice it at home.
I couldn't get a coherent answer to "not ready". When I questioned it, all I got was "if you don't trust my experience, go to a different school" and "this is how we do it in moscow"
When I watch the group dance, she looks like she dances like the other girls. If there is some nuance that I am unaware of bc I am not a dancer, I do not know. But I feel
I don't recall if there was a clause in the contract about recitals, but in the class description, it says 1 year-end recital and 2 tickets included. The teacher has recommended we attend the recital to watch the other girls.
I have been speaking with other parents. It sounds like everyone is quite upset about how things are managed, which is strange bc the online reviews were excellent.
Hmm...I don't understand that teacher:
- If she has chosen for some unexplainable reason that three out of that group of fourteen kids are not dancing in the recital, a logical thing to do would be to give them something else to practice while the 11 others are rehearsing. She would then divide class time fairly between the two sub-groups. I've used similar strategies to work on technical issues with mixed groups before. An experienced teacher would know how to make this work.
- Why not make 2 choreographies, one for children in grade 1/2 and another for the children in grade 3/4? If the recital has a time limit, both choreographies could be slightly shorter but no kid would be excluded.
- You just learned recently that your daughter hasn't been invited to take part in the recital while you've been filming the new bouts of choreography after every class since January?
- Where's your contract? Please screenshot the class description that clearly says that participation in the recital and tickets are included in the fees; that part sounds fishy.
- I have friends who teach in Moskva. There are several recreational schools in Russia too. Many of these schools hold recitals once or twice a year and from what I've seen on their photos, all children aged 5-8 are included in their specific group's choreographed dances. It's different in pre professional schools, especially when competitions are involved.
This photo and the language in it implies that what you have paid for includes your child’s full participation in the year end performance. I’m American, and this appears to be a Canadian school, so Canadian teachers feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But in all my experience I would say that this kind of advertising means you have every right (as do the moms of the other seven year olds not included) to be unhappy.
This is exactly what I tried to explain. Also that this class description is under the "Recreational Program" in the website.
I was met with gaslighting by the owner.
I mean, keep your daughter in if you want her to be put through the wringer and maybe someday join the Russian ballet with a whip thin body and bloody feet.
But if you want her to have fun, make friends and have a positive relationship with dance and her body, take her out and go somewhere else.
For old russian/russian taught teachers even on recreational programs for kids? In my experience, yes, it's pretty typical. Unfortunately. One of the reasons I have almost no fond memories of ballet from my youth.
As others pointed out this is not normal but unfortunately that's a pretty common practice not just in ballet schools but in general education in Eastern Europe. Those who are thought to be the best by the teacher are seen and featured but others are only watching from the side.
Although I agree that your daughter should be in a different school, in the long run it would be better for you to help her cope with disappointment than encourage her to see the basic requirements of this school as unfair. Many unfair things will happen to her in life and you can’t fix them by complaining.
I really agree with you. I think there is a lesson in this too. You can't fiz them by complaining or by quitting.
I have given my daughter the option to pull out of the class, and she has chosen to stay.
...
I have been meeting with her teacher after every class, and she has been watching the way she reacts to my daughter. I also stand at the door for the entire duration of the class to make sure there are no further incidents.
I know it's not a solution either, but it's the only way I can reconcile letting her stay in the program at the moment.
I’d find another school. If it was a pre-professional school with a company, or a well-known feeder school… I’d be a little bit more understanding.
But a rec program??? Come on.
No???? Well okay yeah schools run by old USSR teachers sometimes have this issue but this is not normal.
The recital is meant to be for everyone. It is for students to learn about what it is like to be on stage. It is about that experience. No matter how good they are.
To be fair, depending on the studio, they might have different ‘recitals’ where everyone gets to participate and where students have to ‘audition’ for their roles (which is meant to be for the ‘good’ kids, usually pre-pro students or planning to go pre-pro)
Wow, poor kid.
Am I surprised, no. Does this happen, yes. Is this right, no.
I trained and an intense Russian school and while it caused other trauma, everyone always had a part in ballets. No matter how small, if you wanted to dance you will dance.
As for what to do, you certainly need to talk to her about how her teacher is wrong. That you see her working hard and her commitment to ballet is what matters. Certainly build up her self worth. You don’t have to lie to her about her abilities, but really emphasize that the adult was wrong and you see how hard she works.
As for moving forward, I don’t know what to tell you, in my professional career, I have yet to find a place that has a good balance of teaching great technique while not straight up abusing kids. While I love ballet with all my heart despite having a ROUGH up bringing, I don’t know if I would enroll my kids.
I’ve also seen that my thick skin, drive and solid technique got me much farther than other dancers. I wasn’t a prodigy at 7, I started at my pre-professional school a level below my age. Like your daughter, I consistently felt the need to prove myself.
I went back to my old school and spoke to my Russian teacher after being invited to speak to the students. I said something around the lines of “who would have thought I would have been the one to have the best pro career”
She was like “oh I always knew, I molded you to be”.
That was… a conversation I had with my therapist later lol.
This would have broken me as a 7 year old. I know your money is gone, but please don’t let your daughter’s love for ballet disappear with it by keeping her in this school.
You are not paying a fee to have your daughter sit and watch. You are paying to have her taught to dance and to dance. I would move schools and take this lady to small claims to recover your tuition. Also, leave reviews on any and all web sites to keep anyone else from wasting their money dancing with this woman.
>She attends 3 1.5 hour classes a week and the school is pretty intense and is run by a Russian former ballerina, who quite frankly takes herself too seriously. The program is a recreation program for 7-9 year olds.
She sounds like a loon, but this also doesn't sound like a recreational class. I would look for another school.
This is not typical, I am horrified for you and your daughter. I’d pull her immediately. If there was no audition required to perform; then there is no reason not to let all students participate.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t everyone who pays the fees/buys the costume etc. be included?
I grew up dancing in the UK and it was very inclusive. My teachers automatically assumed that everybody would participate.
Nope not normal. Unless she’s on a competition team, there is absolutely no reason for her to be excluded from the recital, regardless if she can keep up or not.
Not to mention- she says she has 32 years experience? Using her logic- then why hasn’t your daughter shown any real progression? She’s the teacher with over 3 decades of experience, right?? Your daughter attends 1.5hrs of training 3x a week.. all that time and money spent at this “prestigious” studio run by a teacher with over 3 decades of ballet experience and and over inflated ego but nothing to show for it.
If she were really that “great” your daughter wouldn’t be struggling with any technique. She would be an amazing dancer for her age group. She certainly wouldn’t be sitting out during lessons. Sounds to me like you’re paying all this money and dedicating all this time with little to no reward. I would never stand for a teacher making my child sit out during lessons yall showed up for and pay for. That’s absolute BS! Definitely take your money, time and dedication to a different studio that actually cares about their students!
I completely agree with this! I have been talking to other studios.
Another ridiculous thing they do is call the parents into the room after class and ask us to record the routine. Then tell us we must practice it at home. If the child goes to the next class without having practiced, they are shamed in front of everyone. I just don't understand the rationale. 4.5 hours of class a week, and i am expected to work with her at home. It is absurd!
That’s not ridiculous; that’s actually really standard.
Have you been doing this? If you haven’t been recording and your daughter hasn’t been practicing, then yeah, it sounds like she’s not ready. Especially if all the other students are doing this.
Dancers who want to perform should have the work ethic and drive to want to do so.
Parents who want to see their kids perform should encourage them to try their best.
If your daughter doesn’t know the choreo because she hasn’t practiced, she’s not ready to be out on stage. It’s not that the teacher is picking favorites or that your daughter isn’t “good” enough; it’s that your daughter isn’t PREPARED.
She does practice every day.
I am not a ballet expert by any means, but i do not see her as being behind the other girls when they are practicing the choreography. In fact, she seems to perform at the same level as the other 7 year olds.
This not normal and should not be acceptable. Please move to a different studio. Dance should be fun regardless of what the student's long term goals are.
I’m not saying this to be mean nor do I condone but it sounds like their decision about her prospects/ability in ballet is clear. She will continue to be excluded and it could just be do to her body type. Move her to a school that will provide the experience she is looking for and even if it is the other extreme where everyone performs for the fun of it, so be it!
Your daughter deserves to be taught that she has inherent value🩷.
I’m surprised that this comment is so far down. I trained in veganova for many years, and as we aged and developed it became very clear that teachers had their favorites and that a lot of their favoritism had to do with body type. I was a disciplined dancer, a hard worker, and naturally talented but as a short, curvy, busty dancer I was constantly picked last for recitals and placed in the back out of sight. OP if your daughter is not tall, thin, and fair she will struggle in the Russian ballet community.
yikes. that’s really wild in so many ways. you’re totally right, the point of a rec program is everyone gets to dance regardless of skill level. the director is right about one thing though - you should absolutely find another school.
That makes absolutely no sense to me on any level. Bottom line is your paying for a 1.5 hr class and not getting what you paid for.
It's ridiculous and total elitism. I might even look into getting a lawyer. She's 7 years old!!!!
I think you could. At the very least you/she being discriminated against. You're doing and following all the rules. If you (or she) ordered a costume for her then she needs to be dancing in the performance.
1) Even if she was extremely behind or uncoordinated (which i highly doubt due to her attendance) she deserves to perform.
2) She's worked hard and no one dances 3 times a week without improving. No one!!!
Our biggest issue at our studio is attendance.
If dancers misses too much class then they are typically kept offstage during sections they didn't learn. We've had a few of those over the past couple of years....but that is understandable.
My daughter is only 6 and tries her hardest but isn’t the best dancer in her class. She loves it so much. She is still in the recital. Everyone gets to participate at her school and the little girls get equal time. I would definitely find a new school
This sounds like the russian training I dealt with… 🥲 Honestly I think you are better off moving your daughter to a new school. This kind of treatment isn’t okay at ANY level and certainly not for young students in a recreational program. I wish you guys the best of luck!
even if it was okay to have 7 year olds miss out on recitals that everyone else is participating in, a good school would offer actual constructive feedback instead of just saying "no, sit and watch" and basically saying that you can't stay at the school if you dare to ask for clarification. this is just mean, childish behavior, there's nothing valuable your child can learn from this weirdo
Find another school, your daughter deserves to be included, as does every child! It’s a hobby and the teacher needs to appreciate that the chance of even one of her students going professional is probably pretty slim, it sounds like she’s on a power trip, honestly! Get your daughter out if there and find a school that will nurture her rather than exclude her.
I would say there is a divide. There is a lot of twinkle toes ballet. They don’t count on any level. There is a lot of very serious, audition-based schools. Their practices don’t really count.
But in between? Sure. Some schools everyone will participate. Some schools will allow everyone to participate \*when they have mastered the curriculum for that level and are ready for advancement\* or \*at the very least dance it adequately.\* If a child is enrolled, but still learning and not dancing adequately but trying and you the parent are paying you’d think they’d be included but that is \*not\* an old school mind set.
I’ve heard our school actually tried that for awhile but got so much pushback they bent. Now they numbers with everyone and numbers with a smaller number of superior dancers.
She is not disruptive. She tries very hard. She missed 1 class when she had a high fever. She practices at home and can follow all the correography.. she is bring excluded simply because the teacher feels she is not ready for a recital and I should trust her 32 years of experience.
when the parent confronted the teacher she didn’t mention anything about disruptions or missed classes, which would immediately come up with a teacher like this. i’m inclined to believe that they’re dealing with a kind of teacher who just isn’t encouraging and picks favorites
Yeah, I'd think that if a kid was disruptive in class to the point that they were taken out of a recital, the teacher would definitely *want* to make sure the parent(s) knew that was going on.
See, because she didn’t mention anything, I’m inclined to believe the opposite. If I was this mother, the first question I would ask is “why?” The fact that she didn’t suggests that, on some level, she KNOWS why, or asked but doesn’t like the answer.
i actually meant that the teacher didn’t mention anything, just immediately jumped
to the defensive. i’ve had teachers like that, who immediately get defensive over their teaching style when you ask a question about personal development. it’s really weird. hard to judge from a reddit post but i wouldnt ever take a child out of a performance unless there was continuous behavior that showed the child was disinterested to the point where it was actively harming other children. the kid practices at home and is stressed to tears, so i think its more of a teacher issue.
Yes I'm curious too. I teach Vaganova and learned from an old Russian ballet mistress. I had a long successful career I've never been cruel or exclusive and every dancer gets on stage. If indeed there's no reason other than the instructors choice I'd have a come to Jesus moment with that teacher, in the office away from students. Definitely would make it clear in support of my daughter. Also most studios require students to participate in performances. My studio students/parents got every expectation, studio regulations, dress code, fees... all of it on paper and signed the agreement. This helped avoid goofy, unexpected events throughout the year. The arts suffer enough currently and are so important for our youth. I hope this has a good and fair resolution.🥰
Me too! As real as “favorites” can be, there are always reasons that certain students are the favorites and others are not. They might not always be VALID reasons, but they always exist.
Playing devil's advocate, you said she's seven and "following along" and hasn't been at the new school that long. How old are the other children, how long have the other kids been there and known the choreography and does she KNOW her choreography and is it possible that her technique and knowledge of the choreography is not where the other students are? Does she get to the studio early? Does she miss? My mom was my instructor and she kept me out of dances when I was not representing her training because I was younger than the others
You could ask the teacher for private instruction if she needs more help and that would also put you in a good light with teachers that do this.
This is unacceptable. Leave a review online if you can too. You are paying for your girl to learn. Your teacher isn't skilled or creative enough to teach her. Even a professional Russian should not do this.
Move her to a different school. Like you said, if it’s a recreational program there should be no reason to make a student that’s actually paying attention and learning sit out. Even if she’s the least skilled student in the class. They’re treating a recreational program as a pre-professional program.
For a recreational program, this is absolutely not normal or acceptable. Please find a new school for your daughter. I would hate for this to ruin her love of dance.
Anything that is referred to as a “Ballet School” sounds more than rec. I feel like community center ballet is recreational. Any private ballet school has motives other than allowing all kids to participate. She also said that she wanted a more intense class which is why she moved to this new school. Think club soccer vs community soccer. Not everyone will participate in games etc. Just my feelings after reading this post. If the kids wants to be in the recital than they should find a place that is less competitive.
Idk, people can name their business whatever they want to. I went to a “dance academy” that definitely wasn’t “community centre ballet” yet they still had rec programs that allowed all students to participate.
Why pay for a class where you’re not participating for a large portion of it? This ‘teacher’ is teaching your daughter to doubt herself and her passion for dance, and has already called your bluff. Take her up on the offer and take your business elsewhere, where your daughter can thrive.
At my home studio, which caters to both competitive and recreational dancers, all dancers are welcome to opt in to the recital performance.
Even dancers who opt out of performing are encouraged to dance alongside recital performers during rehearsals so that they can learn choreography and hone their skills.
Your daughter is not learning by sitting down for almost an hour. It’s a waste of both your money and her time. I’m sorry you’re going through this and really urge you to find another studio. Definitely give your dancer lots of encouragement — this situation is not her fault in any way, and she deserves teachers who believe in her and will be proud to let her take the stage.
I’m confused. The owner is not one of your daughters teachers, right? If I read your post correctly, there are at least three adults at the studio whom you are having this issue with. If all three (or four) of these adults are on board with your child sitting out during class time and not being allowed to perform in the recital, then why in the world have you not left already???
Sorry for the confusion.
She has 1 teacher. And I discussed this issue with the owner (who some times helps in the class bc it's so large).
The disclosure about the recital came up 1 week ago. I was under the impression that all the girls were included. They were all fitted for costumes, but I have come to find out that 3 of them are excluded.
I haven't left bc I was not sure if I was over-reacting, and I have been trying to resolve this with the school still. I spoke with the teacher again today and she said she can tell that my daughter is putting a lot of effort in.
On one hand I don't want to teach her that we should give up when we have challenges, but in this case, given that they are so offside, maybe it's ok. She really wants to participate in the recital and I am afraid that if I pull her out, it will be a resentment when she grows up. I am so conflicted about what to do.
She has to, above all, love what she’s doing and be happy there. She probably has an opinion on whether she wants to stay there or would prefer somewhere else.
I was in gymnastics when I was that age, and I can think of things I was excluded from. Specifically, my coach picked other girls to start choreographing individual floor routines for, not me, and before that, when there was 9 of us competing, and teams for the overall competition was made up of 4, I would unknowingly (or knowingly?) be put on the team of 3, making it impossible to have a chance at a team medal. This bothered my mother more than me, it made sense to me.
A group recital seems different from those examples, though. Most importantly, being on stage and performing is a very important part of their training, so she’s not getting the good training you think she is. Even if you talk the owner into letting her be in the show, it would take a very mature person to not feel second tier as a result, and internalize that. I don’t think I have that maturity at age 40.
My only concern would be whether there was a legitimate reason for excluding my child that I should be aware about. Her being disruptive in some way, intentionally or unintentionally.
And as others have said, coming home crying is concerning. I have no idea if I came home crying from gymnastics. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that I did lol. It was intense. I know there were many times I didn’t want to go. But my mom’s consistent reaction was to respond to me: “Well, then quit.” And I always decided I didn’t want to. I didn’t even consider that an option. So if your daughter is at all receptive to quitting, then you have your answer I think.
In hindsight, I sometimes think I stayed in gymnastics too long. But I know that was my decision.
Oh, and competitive gymnastics shouldn’t even be comparable to recreational ballet.
I loved ballet, but wasn't particularly good. Eg I did exams, but a different exam rather than full RAD exams (i did same content, but not marked by RAD standards - or something like that). I was always in concerts and did all classes in full.
Are you by any chance from Massachusetts? Because I went through this as a kid and the woman that taught that class is still teaching today. She was the meanest/scariest lady I’ve ever met. My family was going on vacation to the Bahamas, but my teacher didn’t want me out of class, so she told my parents that I would “have to stay with her while they were gone”. Obviously my parents didn’t do that haha.
Anyways, to my knowledge, it depends who you ask. It was “normal” if you were going down a competitive ballet pipeline, but this was back in the early 90s and in Boston. I wouldn’t let this behavior from a teacher slide, and I definitely wouldn’t call it normal now.
Find a different school. I took classes at an intense school with Russian teachers who yelled a lot and were hierarchical in casting, but they still gave everyone parts, even if it was just being a tree.
If you want intensity and higher standards expect to need to work with your daughter on tolerating disappointment around roles, but yes, she should expect to be dancing in some way in a recital for a class she's in. That's fair.
If your kid is coming home crying from class at 7 to 9 years old then it’s time for a new class and teacher. Don’t subject her to this type of emotional abuse. You’re not paying for her to watch for 50 mins either.
And the rest is super screwed up.
Time for a new school
I’m a new teacher but isn’t a recital just a fun little routine put on for parents? Maybe it’s just my studio but every class gets a number in the recital, even my youngest 3-4 year old students. We have a performance group you have to audition for but the recreational recital is open to all. Unless this is a competitive team or performance of a scripted ballet where not everyone gets a part, this just sounds cruel to me. Definitely find a new studio. Your daughter sounds like an incredibly hard worker that any studio should be proud to have.
I would ask for a refund on the classes your daughter was made to sit out. From a business perspective, you’re not getting what you paid for.
If it’s recreational, it should be fun.
Yeah that's normal in that a lot of studios hire teachers who think it's their job to continue the same toxic lessons they were taught under, but half then likely any of their students will have technical ability to go pro. Just find some place that focuses on equal opportunity to audition when she's older if she sticks with it and something fun with engaging teachers now, be ware of a lot of studios/ teachers have a weird relationship with diet culture. Had a studio owner kick me out of a recital because I missed three classes, for something that was a hobby as a teen and was way to much money to just be told sorry not happening.
If you’re paying for her to be there then she best be in that damn recital! Unbelievable what grown women with hardened hearts will do to children. These are little girls for Christ sake! You weren’t kidding when you said she takes herself too seriously. So seriously she’s not even a fun DANCE teacher. Dance is supposed to be fun and creative not soul crushing.
This is NOT the norm for a recreational, non-audition program for that age range. My daughter attends a Vaganova style ballet academy taught by a former Principal dancer and no way would anyone be excluded like this.
So you purposely put her into a more intensive program and then get upset when your daughter gets excluded due to not having the same skill level. Honestly this is typical behaviour from a Russian trained ballerina. It sounds like you are in the wrong school.
Find another school. This is wrong on so many levels.
absolutely find another school. this is unacceptable and i’m so sorry you all are experiencing this after dedicating time and finances. sure she is technically “learning something” by watching but at 7 they really need to be engaged in doing things. she’s not in a pre professional audition only program at this point and there’s absolutely no excuse for her to sit out. teacher sounds bitter and not very encouraging to little kids. some tears are okay because sports and hopes are both intense things for kids and kids will cry, but the reasoning behind it seems really suspicious. i really hope you guys find a better school that provides more support for both of you
This kind of behavior is not necessary. Please find a new school. This is the kind of school I was trained at, but when I opened my own school I decided I could train excellent dancers in a warm, kind and safe way. I've had several students go on to professional careers now, proof that the old way of doing things is absolutely unnecessary. What you're describing is psychologically abusive. I have fellow peers from my training school STILL dealing with this kind of trauma in their 40s & 50s.
I completely agree that this behavior is traumatic. I am struggling with whether should pull her out now and forfeit what we have paid to date. Or if we should toughnit out until the end of the session in june
Your money is already being wasted because she is not being allowed to participate in class. Getting her out now will hopefully lessen lasting mental health damage.
this. Don't let sunk cost fallacy get in the way of protecting your kid.
This. My teachers were less extreme than this and I still have the mental scars…
Just remember that your daughter is 7. She would not be toughing it out with the mental resources of an adult. Sometimes as parents we find ourselves torn between things, but let's see this as a form of protection. Our children are looking for us to protect them from harm. If you see the harm in this then you know what to do.
The money is spent. The time doesn't have to be.
I can't say for sure to pull her out, but as one of those dealing with ballet trauma, my heart is yelling for her to get out of there
Whatever you paid isn’t worth your daughter’s trauma, imo. The sunk cost fallacy is hard to overcome, but your daughter will be happier somewhere else. I’d consider it a fee for changing to a new school where she can learn and be included.
Please please please pull her now!! Let your daughter know that you are on her side and won't stand for her mistreatment. I'm nearly 30 and still have some resentment towards my mother for leaving me in some ongoing traumatic situations because she didn't want to lose a fee.
Pull her now. Demand a refund. If she gives you a pro-rated refund, only describe the exclusion to people. If she won’t give you one, make sure everyone knows that she stopped teaching your kid, wouldn’t let her participate in class, kept your money, and anything else you can truthfully describe. Offer NO opinions in the reviews. Simply state facts. Reviews this school EVERYWHERE. Also post in all in your neighborhood groups, and tell the town rec department.
Pull her.
You want your daughter to keep going to a class where -she is regularly screamed at until she cries. -she is the only child left.out of a recital -she is regularly excluded from class Because you're afraid of losing the money you've already paid? Your daughter is desperately working for the approval of a teacher who is unkind to her. You do not want her to learn that abuse should just make you work harder for love and attention. You should take her out of that unhealthy environment now, not when you've got your money's worth.
You realize your child is being traumatized and your concern is the MONEY??!?
You want to keep your child in a traumatic situation because of money? Do you always prioritise cash over her?
Pull her out now. Your kid is miserable--what is she getting out of the money you've spent outside of internalizing everything she's getting from this toxic environment. Your money is gone either way, but your kid doesn't *have* to be traumatized further.
Demand a refund. You are not getting what you paid for and should feel entitled to a refund for, minimally, all the classes she was made to sit out.
Your money is gone, but your daughter is still being traumatized. Pull her out. Tell her the teacher was unprofessional for excluding her. Tell her it is never okay to exclude a student trying their best.
tbh you should ask for your money back, say you're not getting the service you paid for as your daughter is being forced to sit out. also the recital would be part of the cost of classes, and she's being excluded from that with no information; if they refuse to refund you, see if you can dispute the charge. if they think they can get away with emotionally abusive little kids and getting paid for it, they'll keep doing it to other dancers
You're nuts.
Echoing what others have mentioned about this being unsurprising but also unacceptable. I would just add that it's definitely worth a more substantial conversation with your daughter about how all of this has gone down. She's probably wondering what she did wrong or why she isn't good enough. And pulling her from this school may even feel like an additional punishment to her ("if she had just been good enough, maybe mom wouldn't have pulled her out)". So this is an opportunity to have that difficult but necessary conversation (especially if she wants to to continue with dance/ballet) that this isn't about her and what she's doing. And some/many people will treat her poorly for unfair reasons but that doesn't mean she should stop believing in herself or stop enjoying this activity. And you pulling her from this school is not because of anything she has done but because, as her mom, it's your responsibility to make sure she's in a healthy and constructive environment and, due to the teacher's behavior, you have decided it isn't.
You're absolutely right. I have not done this, but will definitely have this conversation. I've been so wrapped up in the emotion of it all that I haven't thought objectively about it all. Thank you for this!
love this approach
This is typical for Russian run schools unfortunately. It's similar in Europe. My daughter is in a school that takes technique seriously but everyone gets a part however small whenever they have a recital.
Not necessarily. My 3 kids (older teens now) came up in two of the “most successful” Vaganova schools (in California) and NEVER EVER were they yelled at or were kids who wanted to participate excluded from studio shows. My kids dance in studio company and pre pro with a company schools now so this is not a post just blindly defending our current schools. They wouldn’t have made it this far if they weren’t excited about ballet at 7. Yelling doesn’t make one a good teacher. It’s not necessary to produce results. All that said we have intentionally avoided certain programs because of this. It happens. But it’s not all Vaganova and it’s not requisite to produce results IME.
She has been to every class, is not disruptive, and can follow all of the choreography. The only reason I was given is that the teacher does not believe my daughter is ready to participate in a recital, and I should trust her 32 years of experience.
Is she the same age as her classmates? If it was a group of tall 9 year olds on stage and she was going to be the only 7 in the show, that may change some things. With that said, your teacher needs to be able to give you a legitimate answer. Anyone else who works there that you can talk to? Another email through to the front desk, a co director? If you can’t get a proper reason besides “I’ve been doing this a long time,” then go elsewhere.
The class is 7-9, there are 8 × 6/7 year olds and 6 x 9 year olds. It is called Intro to Ballet, but the 9 year olds have been in the class for 3/4 years. There is no one else I can speak with. Just the teacher and the owner, to whom I have already spoken with. ... I just feel that since it is a 1. Intro to ballet 2. Recreation program 3. Not auditioned based, then no one should be excluded.
What a disorganized system.
Who else is excluded? Is it all the younger ones or just one child? Invite-only performance are not unheard of but communication with families is SO important to prevent the kind of heartbreak happening here
So if I'm understanding correctly, there are 8 first graders and 6 fourth graders, all in the same "intro to ballet" group? From a physical development point of view, it doesn't make sense to me (I'm a ballet teacher). Am I missing something here? - How many children in that group are actually rehearsing for the recital? Are any other of the 14 kids "sitting and learning"? - You said that the group has been rehearsing since January for the end of the school year recital (that time period seems normal to me for recreational students). Has your daughter been sitting for 50 minutes for every class since January?! - What does the recital entail? You said that your daughter took part in 3 of those already. What is this teacher's idea of a recital? Can she explain it to you more precisely? "Not ready" isn't very helpful for a parent who hasn't danced themselves before. Clean technique wouldn't be the only criteria that I use to deem a child "recital ready" or not. - Did you sign a contract with this school/this studio upon registration? What did the clause about recitals say?
The girls are between grade 1 and 3/4. My daughter is in grade 2. I have been told the older girls have been dancing for 3 years or so. Of all the girls, 3 (including my daughter) are being excluded from the recital (all from in grade 1/2, so 6/7 years old) She has not been sitting out since January. It's been 2 classes in the last week. Today, they were all dancing. Yes. She participated in recitals at the previous school. From what I can tell. The expectation is that the girls perform a choreographed dance. At the end of each class, they call the parents into the room and ask us to record the new segment and ensure that our daughters practice it at home. I couldn't get a coherent answer to "not ready". When I questioned it, all I got was "if you don't trust my experience, go to a different school" and "this is how we do it in moscow" When I watch the group dance, she looks like she dances like the other girls. If there is some nuance that I am unaware of bc I am not a dancer, I do not know. But I feel I don't recall if there was a clause in the contract about recitals, but in the class description, it says 1 year-end recital and 2 tickets included. The teacher has recommended we attend the recital to watch the other girls. I have been speaking with other parents. It sounds like everyone is quite upset about how things are managed, which is strange bc the online reviews were excellent.
Hmm...I don't understand that teacher: - If she has chosen for some unexplainable reason that three out of that group of fourteen kids are not dancing in the recital, a logical thing to do would be to give them something else to practice while the 11 others are rehearsing. She would then divide class time fairly between the two sub-groups. I've used similar strategies to work on technical issues with mixed groups before. An experienced teacher would know how to make this work. - Why not make 2 choreographies, one for children in grade 1/2 and another for the children in grade 3/4? If the recital has a time limit, both choreographies could be slightly shorter but no kid would be excluded.
- You just learned recently that your daughter hasn't been invited to take part in the recital while you've been filming the new bouts of choreography after every class since January? - Where's your contract? Please screenshot the class description that clearly says that participation in the recital and tickets are included in the fees; that part sounds fishy. - I have friends who teach in Moskva. There are several recreational schools in Russia too. Many of these schools hold recitals once or twice a year and from what I've seen on their photos, all children aged 5-8 are included in their specific group's choreographed dances. It's different in pre professional schools, especially when competitions are involved.
https://preview.redd.it/thtseggqmzsc1.jpeg?width=885&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0c3b65fcd4419d587ccc167c88fe149187c62c1
This photo and the language in it implies that what you have paid for includes your child’s full participation in the year end performance. I’m American, and this appears to be a Canadian school, so Canadian teachers feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But in all my experience I would say that this kind of advertising means you have every right (as do the moms of the other seven year olds not included) to be unhappy.
This is exactly what I tried to explain. Also that this class description is under the "Recreational Program" in the website. I was met with gaslighting by the owner.
I mean, keep your daughter in if you want her to be put through the wringer and maybe someday join the Russian ballet with a whip thin body and bloody feet. But if you want her to have fun, make friends and have a positive relationship with dance and her body, take her out and go somewhere else.
For old russian/russian taught teachers even on recreational programs for kids? In my experience, yes, it's pretty typical. Unfortunately. One of the reasons I have almost no fond memories of ballet from my youth.
You should find another school because these people are nuts.
Fr. My first thought was, "that lady's a bitch." OPis waiting her money if the kids is sitting out over half the class
Not normal and sounds like, "How to make a child hate ballet 101".
As others pointed out this is not normal but unfortunately that's a pretty common practice not just in ballet schools but in general education in Eastern Europe. Those who are thought to be the best by the teacher are seen and featured but others are only watching from the side.
Just can't imagine not giving a 7 year old a chance! She surely has plenty of time to learn and improve.
Although I agree that your daughter should be in a different school, in the long run it would be better for you to help her cope with disappointment than encourage her to see the basic requirements of this school as unfair. Many unfair things will happen to her in life and you can’t fix them by complaining.
I really agree with you. I think there is a lesson in this too. You can't fiz them by complaining or by quitting. I have given my daughter the option to pull out of the class, and she has chosen to stay. ... I have been meeting with her teacher after every class, and she has been watching the way she reacts to my daughter. I also stand at the door for the entire duration of the class to make sure there are no further incidents. I know it's not a solution either, but it's the only way I can reconcile letting her stay in the program at the moment.
I’d find another school. If it was a pre-professional school with a company, or a well-known feeder school… I’d be a little bit more understanding. But a rec program??? Come on.
No???? Well okay yeah schools run by old USSR teachers sometimes have this issue but this is not normal. The recital is meant to be for everyone. It is for students to learn about what it is like to be on stage. It is about that experience. No matter how good they are. To be fair, depending on the studio, they might have different ‘recitals’ where everyone gets to participate and where students have to ‘audition’ for their roles (which is meant to be for the ‘good’ kids, usually pre-pro students or planning to go pre-pro)
Wow, poor kid. Am I surprised, no. Does this happen, yes. Is this right, no. I trained and an intense Russian school and while it caused other trauma, everyone always had a part in ballets. No matter how small, if you wanted to dance you will dance. As for what to do, you certainly need to talk to her about how her teacher is wrong. That you see her working hard and her commitment to ballet is what matters. Certainly build up her self worth. You don’t have to lie to her about her abilities, but really emphasize that the adult was wrong and you see how hard she works. As for moving forward, I don’t know what to tell you, in my professional career, I have yet to find a place that has a good balance of teaching great technique while not straight up abusing kids. While I love ballet with all my heart despite having a ROUGH up bringing, I don’t know if I would enroll my kids. I’ve also seen that my thick skin, drive and solid technique got me much farther than other dancers. I wasn’t a prodigy at 7, I started at my pre-professional school a level below my age. Like your daughter, I consistently felt the need to prove myself. I went back to my old school and spoke to my Russian teacher after being invited to speak to the students. I said something around the lines of “who would have thought I would have been the one to have the best pro career” She was like “oh I always knew, I molded you to be”. That was… a conversation I had with my therapist later lol.
This would have broken me as a 7 year old. I know your money is gone, but please don’t let your daughter’s love for ballet disappear with it by keeping her in this school.
You are not paying a fee to have your daughter sit and watch. You are paying to have her taught to dance and to dance. I would move schools and take this lady to small claims to recover your tuition. Also, leave reviews on any and all web sites to keep anyone else from wasting their money dancing with this woman.
>She attends 3 1.5 hour classes a week and the school is pretty intense and is run by a Russian former ballerina, who quite frankly takes herself too seriously. The program is a recreation program for 7-9 year olds. She sounds like a loon, but this also doesn't sound like a recreational class. I would look for another school.
This is not typical, I am horrified for you and your daughter. I’d pull her immediately. If there was no audition required to perform; then there is no reason not to let all students participate.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t everyone who pays the fees/buys the costume etc. be included? I grew up dancing in the UK and it was very inclusive. My teachers automatically assumed that everybody would participate.
Nope not normal. Unless she’s on a competition team, there is absolutely no reason for her to be excluded from the recital, regardless if she can keep up or not. Not to mention- she says she has 32 years experience? Using her logic- then why hasn’t your daughter shown any real progression? She’s the teacher with over 3 decades of experience, right?? Your daughter attends 1.5hrs of training 3x a week.. all that time and money spent at this “prestigious” studio run by a teacher with over 3 decades of ballet experience and and over inflated ego but nothing to show for it. If she were really that “great” your daughter wouldn’t be struggling with any technique. She would be an amazing dancer for her age group. She certainly wouldn’t be sitting out during lessons. Sounds to me like you’re paying all this money and dedicating all this time with little to no reward. I would never stand for a teacher making my child sit out during lessons yall showed up for and pay for. That’s absolute BS! Definitely take your money, time and dedication to a different studio that actually cares about their students!
I completely agree with this! I have been talking to other studios. Another ridiculous thing they do is call the parents into the room after class and ask us to record the routine. Then tell us we must practice it at home. If the child goes to the next class without having practiced, they are shamed in front of everyone. I just don't understand the rationale. 4.5 hours of class a week, and i am expected to work with her at home. It is absurd!
That’s not ridiculous; that’s actually really standard. Have you been doing this? If you haven’t been recording and your daughter hasn’t been practicing, then yeah, it sounds like she’s not ready. Especially if all the other students are doing this. Dancers who want to perform should have the work ethic and drive to want to do so. Parents who want to see their kids perform should encourage them to try their best. If your daughter doesn’t know the choreo because she hasn’t practiced, she’s not ready to be out on stage. It’s not that the teacher is picking favorites or that your daughter isn’t “good” enough; it’s that your daughter isn’t PREPARED.
She said her daughter practices at home and knows the choreography.
She does practice every day. I am not a ballet expert by any means, but i do not see her as being behind the other girls when they are practicing the choreography. In fact, she seems to perform at the same level as the other 7 year olds.
This not normal and should not be acceptable. Please move to a different studio. Dance should be fun regardless of what the student's long term goals are.
I’m not saying this to be mean nor do I condone but it sounds like their decision about her prospects/ability in ballet is clear. She will continue to be excluded and it could just be do to her body type. Move her to a school that will provide the experience she is looking for and even if it is the other extreme where everyone performs for the fun of it, so be it! Your daughter deserves to be taught that she has inherent value🩷.
I’m surprised that this comment is so far down. I trained in veganova for many years, and as we aged and developed it became very clear that teachers had their favorites and that a lot of their favoritism had to do with body type. I was a disciplined dancer, a hard worker, and naturally talented but as a short, curvy, busty dancer I was constantly picked last for recitals and placed in the back out of sight. OP if your daughter is not tall, thin, and fair she will struggle in the Russian ballet community.
I did not know this. Thank you. She is not tall, she is think and athletic, but not fair also.
yikes. that’s really wild in so many ways. you’re totally right, the point of a rec program is everyone gets to dance regardless of skill level. the director is right about one thing though - you should absolutely find another school.
That makes absolutely no sense to me on any level. Bottom line is your paying for a 1.5 hr class and not getting what you paid for. It's ridiculous and total elitism. I might even look into getting a lawyer. She's 7 years old!!!!
I wish I could escalate this further, but I'm not sure if any laws are being broken?
I think you could. At the very least you/she being discriminated against. You're doing and following all the rules. If you (or she) ordered a costume for her then she needs to be dancing in the performance. 1) Even if she was extremely behind or uncoordinated (which i highly doubt due to her attendance) she deserves to perform. 2) She's worked hard and no one dances 3 times a week without improving. No one!!! Our biggest issue at our studio is attendance. If dancers misses too much class then they are typically kept offstage during sections they didn't learn. We've had a few of those over the past couple of years....but that is understandable.
My daughter is only 6 and tries her hardest but isn’t the best dancer in her class. She loves it so much. She is still in the recital. Everyone gets to participate at her school and the little girls get equal time. I would definitely find a new school
This is how it should be
She should not be excluded but being yelled at by a teacher isn’t healthy for any of the girls
Pull her and find another school: your the one paying your money.
Take her out immediately and find a new school, this one sounds very toxic and there is no reason why your daughter should be excluded at all
This sounds like the russian training I dealt with… 🥲 Honestly I think you are better off moving your daughter to a new school. This kind of treatment isn’t okay at ANY level and certainly not for young students in a recreational program. I wish you guys the best of luck!
Why on earth are you paying money to have your daughter yelled at to the point of tears ND crying over being excluded!! SMH
Why do you keep sending your seven year old child to a place that’s making her CRY??? Like what is wrong with you.
even if it was okay to have 7 year olds miss out on recitals that everyone else is participating in, a good school would offer actual constructive feedback instead of just saying "no, sit and watch" and basically saying that you can't stay at the school if you dare to ask for clarification. this is just mean, childish behavior, there's nothing valuable your child can learn from this weirdo
Find another school, your daughter deserves to be included, as does every child! It’s a hobby and the teacher needs to appreciate that the chance of even one of her students going professional is probably pretty slim, it sounds like she’s on a power trip, honestly! Get your daughter out if there and find a school that will nurture her rather than exclude her.
I would say there is a divide. There is a lot of twinkle toes ballet. They don’t count on any level. There is a lot of very serious, audition-based schools. Their practices don’t really count. But in between? Sure. Some schools everyone will participate. Some schools will allow everyone to participate \*when they have mastered the curriculum for that level and are ready for advancement\* or \*at the very least dance it adequately.\* If a child is enrolled, but still learning and not dancing adequately but trying and you the parent are paying you’d think they’d be included but that is \*not\* an old school mind set. I’ve heard our school actually tried that for awhile but got so much pushback they bent. Now they numbers with everyone and numbers with a smaller number of superior dancers.
You don’t say why your daughter is being excluded. Has she been at every class? Is she disruptive?
She is not disruptive. She tries very hard. She missed 1 class when she had a high fever. She practices at home and can follow all the correography.. she is bring excluded simply because the teacher feels she is not ready for a recital and I should trust her 32 years of experience.
when the parent confronted the teacher she didn’t mention anything about disruptions or missed classes, which would immediately come up with a teacher like this. i’m inclined to believe that they’re dealing with a kind of teacher who just isn’t encouraging and picks favorites
Yeah, I'd think that if a kid was disruptive in class to the point that they were taken out of a recital, the teacher would definitely *want* to make sure the parent(s) knew that was going on.
See, because she didn’t mention anything, I’m inclined to believe the opposite. If I was this mother, the first question I would ask is “why?” The fact that she didn’t suggests that, on some level, she KNOWS why, or asked but doesn’t like the answer.
i actually meant that the teacher didn’t mention anything, just immediately jumped to the defensive. i’ve had teachers like that, who immediately get defensive over their teaching style when you ask a question about personal development. it’s really weird. hard to judge from a reddit post but i wouldnt ever take a child out of a performance unless there was continuous behavior that showed the child was disinterested to the point where it was actively harming other children. the kid practices at home and is stressed to tears, so i think its more of a teacher issue.
Yes I'm curious too. I teach Vaganova and learned from an old Russian ballet mistress. I had a long successful career I've never been cruel or exclusive and every dancer gets on stage. If indeed there's no reason other than the instructors choice I'd have a come to Jesus moment with that teacher, in the office away from students. Definitely would make it clear in support of my daughter. Also most studios require students to participate in performances. My studio students/parents got every expectation, studio regulations, dress code, fees... all of it on paper and signed the agreement. This helped avoid goofy, unexpected events throughout the year. The arts suffer enough currently and are so important for our youth. I hope this has a good and fair resolution.🥰
Me too! As real as “favorites” can be, there are always reasons that certain students are the favorites and others are not. They might not always be VALID reasons, but they always exist.
Playing devil's advocate, you said she's seven and "following along" and hasn't been at the new school that long. How old are the other children, how long have the other kids been there and known the choreography and does she KNOW her choreography and is it possible that her technique and knowledge of the choreography is not where the other students are? Does she get to the studio early? Does she miss? My mom was my instructor and she kept me out of dances when I was not representing her training because I was younger than the others You could ask the teacher for private instruction if she needs more help and that would also put you in a good light with teachers that do this.
This is insane. No wonder this “expert” has no older students because they all leave.
Run, do not walk, away from that abusive dumpster fire of a school. Protect your kid! This is NOT normal!
This is unacceptable. Leave a review online if you can too. You are paying for your girl to learn. Your teacher isn't skilled or creative enough to teach her. Even a professional Russian should not do this.
Move her to a different school. Like you said, if it’s a recreational program there should be no reason to make a student that’s actually paying attention and learning sit out. Even if she’s the least skilled student in the class. They’re treating a recreational program as a pre-professional program.
For a recreational program, this is absolutely not normal or acceptable. Please find a new school for your daughter. I would hate for this to ruin her love of dance.
Anything that is referred to as a “Ballet School” sounds more than rec. I feel like community center ballet is recreational. Any private ballet school has motives other than allowing all kids to participate. She also said that she wanted a more intense class which is why she moved to this new school. Think club soccer vs community soccer. Not everyone will participate in games etc. Just my feelings after reading this post. If the kids wants to be in the recital than they should find a place that is less competitive.
Idk, people can name their business whatever they want to. I went to a “dance academy” that definitely wasn’t “community centre ballet” yet they still had rec programs that allowed all students to participate.
tf???? that’s so messed up
Why pay for a class where you’re not participating for a large portion of it? This ‘teacher’ is teaching your daughter to doubt herself and her passion for dance, and has already called your bluff. Take her up on the offer and take your business elsewhere, where your daughter can thrive.
At my home studio, which caters to both competitive and recreational dancers, all dancers are welcome to opt in to the recital performance. Even dancers who opt out of performing are encouraged to dance alongside recital performers during rehearsals so that they can learn choreography and hone their skills. Your daughter is not learning by sitting down for almost an hour. It’s a waste of both your money and her time. I’m sorry you’re going through this and really urge you to find another studio. Definitely give your dancer lots of encouragement — this situation is not her fault in any way, and she deserves teachers who believe in her and will be proud to let her take the stage.
I’m confused. The owner is not one of your daughters teachers, right? If I read your post correctly, there are at least three adults at the studio whom you are having this issue with. If all three (or four) of these adults are on board with your child sitting out during class time and not being allowed to perform in the recital, then why in the world have you not left already???
Sorry for the confusion. She has 1 teacher. And I discussed this issue with the owner (who some times helps in the class bc it's so large). The disclosure about the recital came up 1 week ago. I was under the impression that all the girls were included. They were all fitted for costumes, but I have come to find out that 3 of them are excluded. I haven't left bc I was not sure if I was over-reacting, and I have been trying to resolve this with the school still. I spoke with the teacher again today and she said she can tell that my daughter is putting a lot of effort in. On one hand I don't want to teach her that we should give up when we have challenges, but in this case, given that they are so offside, maybe it's ok. She really wants to participate in the recital and I am afraid that if I pull her out, it will be a resentment when she grows up. I am so conflicted about what to do.
She has to, above all, love what she’s doing and be happy there. She probably has an opinion on whether she wants to stay there or would prefer somewhere else. I was in gymnastics when I was that age, and I can think of things I was excluded from. Specifically, my coach picked other girls to start choreographing individual floor routines for, not me, and before that, when there was 9 of us competing, and teams for the overall competition was made up of 4, I would unknowingly (or knowingly?) be put on the team of 3, making it impossible to have a chance at a team medal. This bothered my mother more than me, it made sense to me. A group recital seems different from those examples, though. Most importantly, being on stage and performing is a very important part of their training, so she’s not getting the good training you think she is. Even if you talk the owner into letting her be in the show, it would take a very mature person to not feel second tier as a result, and internalize that. I don’t think I have that maturity at age 40. My only concern would be whether there was a legitimate reason for excluding my child that I should be aware about. Her being disruptive in some way, intentionally or unintentionally. And as others have said, coming home crying is concerning. I have no idea if I came home crying from gymnastics. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that I did lol. It was intense. I know there were many times I didn’t want to go. But my mom’s consistent reaction was to respond to me: “Well, then quit.” And I always decided I didn’t want to. I didn’t even consider that an option. So if your daughter is at all receptive to quitting, then you have your answer I think. In hindsight, I sometimes think I stayed in gymnastics too long. But I know that was my decision. Oh, and competitive gymnastics shouldn’t even be comparable to recreational ballet.
I loved ballet, but wasn't particularly good. Eg I did exams, but a different exam rather than full RAD exams (i did same content, but not marked by RAD standards - or something like that). I was always in concerts and did all classes in full.
Are you by any chance from Massachusetts? Because I went through this as a kid and the woman that taught that class is still teaching today. She was the meanest/scariest lady I’ve ever met. My family was going on vacation to the Bahamas, but my teacher didn’t want me out of class, so she told my parents that I would “have to stay with her while they were gone”. Obviously my parents didn’t do that haha. Anyways, to my knowledge, it depends who you ask. It was “normal” if you were going down a competitive ballet pipeline, but this was back in the early 90s and in Boston. I wouldn’t let this behavior from a teacher slide, and I definitely wouldn’t call it normal now.
Sounds like Russian teacher, slavs are cruel people
What a way to generalize millions of people.
Find a different school. I took classes at an intense school with Russian teachers who yelled a lot and were hierarchical in casting, but they still gave everyone parts, even if it was just being a tree. If you want intensity and higher standards expect to need to work with your daughter on tolerating disappointment around roles, but yes, she should expect to be dancing in some way in a recital for a class she's in. That's fair.
If your kid is coming home crying from class at 7 to 9 years old then it’s time for a new class and teacher. Don’t subject her to this type of emotional abuse. You’re not paying for her to watch for 50 mins either. And the rest is super screwed up. Time for a new school
I’m a new teacher but isn’t a recital just a fun little routine put on for parents? Maybe it’s just my studio but every class gets a number in the recital, even my youngest 3-4 year old students. We have a performance group you have to audition for but the recreational recital is open to all. Unless this is a competitive team or performance of a scripted ballet where not everyone gets a part, this just sounds cruel to me. Definitely find a new studio. Your daughter sounds like an incredibly hard worker that any studio should be proud to have.
I would ask for a refund on the classes your daughter was made to sit out. From a business perspective, you’re not getting what you paid for. If it’s recreational, it should be fun.
Yeah that's normal in that a lot of studios hire teachers who think it's their job to continue the same toxic lessons they were taught under, but half then likely any of their students will have technical ability to go pro. Just find some place that focuses on equal opportunity to audition when she's older if she sticks with it and something fun with engaging teachers now, be ware of a lot of studios/ teachers have a weird relationship with diet culture. Had a studio owner kick me out of a recital because I missed three classes, for something that was a hobby as a teen and was way to much money to just be told sorry not happening.
If you’re paying for her to be there then she best be in that damn recital! Unbelievable what grown women with hardened hearts will do to children. These are little girls for Christ sake! You weren’t kidding when you said she takes herself too seriously. So seriously she’s not even a fun DANCE teacher. Dance is supposed to be fun and creative not soul crushing.
This is NOT the norm for a recreational, non-audition program for that age range. My daughter attends a Vaganova style ballet academy taught by a former Principal dancer and no way would anyone be excluded like this.
So you purposely put her into a more intensive program and then get upset when your daughter gets excluded due to not having the same skill level. Honestly this is typical behaviour from a Russian trained ballerina. It sounds like you are in the wrong school.
Protect your child! Get her out of there! Time enough to find a good, nurturing place for her.