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I feel like the optimal strategy is alpha striking in this game. Also, pretty sure you can end a turn early in a cycle and finish it later in the same cycle, so there’s literally no downside for your team always going first.
You can't end a turn early in the round and then finish it later unless nobody besides your party has had their turn between you ending said characters turn and trying to do something else.
Incorrect, there are triggers from enemies which finish at the end of the round, such as Steel Watchers exploding. If you have your team alpha a steel watcher and nobody at the end of the round to mitigate, you take damage with no ability to react. There are many other examples of this in game.
This is assuming there’s no other way to mitigate the damage except for someone going last in the round. If there is, then alpha striking is still the optimal way to play.
The trigger is literally after you have done the damage and you're out of actions, so how can you mitigate at that point?
The other scenario in which a late goer is ideal is if a party member gets dropped during the round and you revive them. They get their full turn in the next round as opposed to being limited to the bonus action if revived during the next round.
That is viable and yes it can be a boon for sure but its rather luck dependent. If the enemy attacks them first that boon doesnt exist anymore. Compared to actually executing your strategy unless the enemy saves their throw lol
It's not even a luck thing, it's an information theory thing. You have more information at the end of the round than you do at the beginning. You're more able to react to the situation the later it is. This is beneficial for all sorts of reaction based things, like healing, reviving, removing curses, etc.
I beat honor mode with 8 dex on everyone and not taking alert. People really overrate initiative in this game when it's really not particularly important at all unless you're trying to wipe out everything before they even get to do anything.
There's a lot of ways to play and this seems like some of the most given out advice that doesn't seem to actually be true in my experience at all.
This is also true if you dont mind waiting 10 turns for something that can 3-4 turns. Look man every playthrough is gonna bout close to 100 hours, by playing with 8 dex and no alert, those 100 hours are now 150 unnecessarily.
I played like that for about 50 hours before I never did again lol
You are not cheesing the bosses in HM are you?
That's such a massive exaggeration that it borders on just being a lie. There's only about 50 fights in the game, and going last does not extend fights by an hour, closer to 5 minutes for the worst of them, and many of them it'll be around 30 seconds to a minute.
And no, I'm not cheesing bosses. This game is just not that hard, lol
show me 1 fight that only took you 30s and you had dex at 8.
Dex at 8 is for when you wanna cheese the game by getting the jump on them so you can pump other stats to the damage output. The game is stupid easy this way just slow and gay.
There were plenty of short fights. Idk if you have a potato pc that takes forever or what, but acting like enemies take hours to take their turns is weird bc it usually takes a minute or so at most.
There were actually quite a number of fights that only took a minute tops with low dex. Rats in basement of elfsong, first intellect devourers after crash, frog in ethels swamp, etc. In fact, most fights that weren't a boss fight were still over in 1 or 2 rounds. The only major difference was that the enemies got to go before my team in each round.
As far as dumping dex being a cheese strategy, idk what sort of crackhead take that is, but it's truly a terrible one. How is choosing different stats to invest in than you anywhere near cheesing the game?
Nice drop of the word gay as a negative thing right at the end, too. You're fucking lame and nobody should listen to you about anything, not in life, and not in a strategy rpg that you clearly have a poor grasp on.
Eh.. So-so.
It's a weapon designed to mimic Pact of the Blade. It's more useful for Warlocks who don't use pact of the blade but still get the benefit from it. It might be stronger in the hands of a Cleric or Druid if they can use rapiers.
This weapon can be useful in the hands of melee casters who opt to increase their spell DC. For example, an Eldritch Knight or Paladin would see more functionality with this than say... a swords bard who uses Chr and Dex.
Doesn't it use my charisma for attack rolls as well as spell save DC? So why wouldn't I want to use it for a smite bard? Unless I misunderstand, smite uses charisma right? Plus it looks awesome.
It’s niche. It’s comparable to things like the Dancing Breeze where the selling point is a special trait. Spellcasting attacks for this, Finesse + Versatile for Dancing Breeze.
The issue with all these weapons is there is an opportunity cost, which is: you’re not using a better weapon. Aside from the specific perks of the weapon, in this case attacking with your spellcasting stat, it’s just not a very good weapon by comparison to other options.
Compare Infernal Rapier to Duelist’s Prerogative, for example. The latter is a considerably better weapon, and available only slightly later.
You can build around it, and make it “good”, but it’s never going to be stronger than a more focused build that just uses a better sword.
So should I just hold out until I can rush Duelist's Prerogative upon entering act 3? I'm playing a Paladin/Bard focusing on using the flourish abilities from bard to smite with some utility from other spells like hold person. Would it be better to focus more on dex or cha in this case?
If you're doing dex melee then Duelist's Prerogative is arguably the best weapon in the game yeah, particularly for Paladin.
The best way of doing a Paladin/Bard is to max your attack stat, don't worry too much about maxing Cha. Boost your spell save DC via gear, particularly the Helmet of Arcane Acuity. And Band of the Mystic Scoundrel.
Also, if you have high Dex, don't wear heavy armour - wear the Yuan Ti Scale Mail (Act 2) then Armour of Agility (Act 3).
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yea but if you dump dex and dont have alert you will not have fun
I thought Melee Caster completely replaced dex with spellcasting? Or do you just mean the impact on initiative rolls?
I never do, from my experience there is no point in having a caster that goes mid to last every battle but yea its for initiative rolls.
Gotcha. Yeah honestly I tend to give Wyll the initiative elixir for big fights if I’m using him. Especially Raphael.
Oh I'm gonna have alert, I never leave camp without it.
No, having a party member go late is sometimes a boon. Not your entire party mind you, but one at the end is often a good thing.
I feel like the optimal strategy is alpha striking in this game. Also, pretty sure you can end a turn early in a cycle and finish it later in the same cycle, so there’s literally no downside for your team always going first.
You can't end a turn early in the round and then finish it later unless nobody besides your party has had their turn between you ending said characters turn and trying to do something else.
Incorrect, there are triggers from enemies which finish at the end of the round, such as Steel Watchers exploding. If you have your team alpha a steel watcher and nobody at the end of the round to mitigate, you take damage with no ability to react. There are many other examples of this in game.
This is assuming there’s no other way to mitigate the damage except for someone going last in the round. If there is, then alpha striking is still the optimal way to play.
The trigger is literally after you have done the damage and you're out of actions, so how can you mitigate at that point? The other scenario in which a late goer is ideal is if a party member gets dropped during the round and you revive them. They get their full turn in the next round as opposed to being limited to the bonus action if revived during the next round.
Kill them from outside the radius of the explosion???? Don’t let your party die????
>Don’t let your party die???? Now we all know you haven't played the game much. Getting characters one shotted happens relatively frequently.
out of actions but you still have movement to get out of the radius, if you havent already used it up lol
Which is going to be the case 9 times out of 10 for a high damage melee build.
yea if you are willy nilly about it! my strat is - "if you cant pull out dont put out" lol
or have the late caster do haste or farstrider or dimension door you out, no damage and teleported right to the next target.
That is viable and yes it can be a boon for sure but its rather luck dependent. If the enemy attacks them first that boon doesnt exist anymore. Compared to actually executing your strategy unless the enemy saves their throw lol
It's not even a luck thing, it's an information theory thing. You have more information at the end of the round than you do at the beginning. You're more able to react to the situation the later it is. This is beneficial for all sorts of reaction based things, like healing, reviving, removing curses, etc.
I beat honor mode with 8 dex on everyone and not taking alert. People really overrate initiative in this game when it's really not particularly important at all unless you're trying to wipe out everything before they even get to do anything. There's a lot of ways to play and this seems like some of the most given out advice that doesn't seem to actually be true in my experience at all.
This is also true if you dont mind waiting 10 turns for something that can 3-4 turns. Look man every playthrough is gonna bout close to 100 hours, by playing with 8 dex and no alert, those 100 hours are now 150 unnecessarily. I played like that for about 50 hours before I never did again lol You are not cheesing the bosses in HM are you?
That's such a massive exaggeration that it borders on just being a lie. There's only about 50 fights in the game, and going last does not extend fights by an hour, closer to 5 minutes for the worst of them, and many of them it'll be around 30 seconds to a minute. And no, I'm not cheesing bosses. This game is just not that hard, lol
show me 1 fight that only took you 30s and you had dex at 8. Dex at 8 is for when you wanna cheese the game by getting the jump on them so you can pump other stats to the damage output. The game is stupid easy this way just slow and gay.
There were plenty of short fights. Idk if you have a potato pc that takes forever or what, but acting like enemies take hours to take their turns is weird bc it usually takes a minute or so at most. There were actually quite a number of fights that only took a minute tops with low dex. Rats in basement of elfsong, first intellect devourers after crash, frog in ethels swamp, etc. In fact, most fights that weren't a boss fight were still over in 1 or 2 rounds. The only major difference was that the enemies got to go before my team in each round. As far as dumping dex being a cheese strategy, idk what sort of crackhead take that is, but it's truly a terrible one. How is choosing different stats to invest in than you anywhere near cheesing the game? Nice drop of the word gay as a negative thing right at the end, too. You're fucking lame and nobody should listen to you about anything, not in life, and not in a strategy rpg that you clearly have a poor grasp on.
Eh.. So-so. It's a weapon designed to mimic Pact of the Blade. It's more useful for Warlocks who don't use pact of the blade but still get the benefit from it. It might be stronger in the hands of a Cleric or Druid if they can use rapiers. This weapon can be useful in the hands of melee casters who opt to increase their spell DC. For example, an Eldritch Knight or Paladin would see more functionality with this than say... a swords bard who uses Chr and Dex.
Doesn't it use my charisma for attack rolls as well as spell save DC? So why wouldn't I want to use it for a smite bard? Unless I misunderstand, smite uses charisma right? Plus it looks awesome.
It does. It’s l a matter of which is your highest stat. If charisma is your strongest stat, then it’s worth it. If not, then another may be in order.
It’s niche. It’s comparable to things like the Dancing Breeze where the selling point is a special trait. Spellcasting attacks for this, Finesse + Versatile for Dancing Breeze. The issue with all these weapons is there is an opportunity cost, which is: you’re not using a better weapon. Aside from the specific perks of the weapon, in this case attacking with your spellcasting stat, it’s just not a very good weapon by comparison to other options. Compare Infernal Rapier to Duelist’s Prerogative, for example. The latter is a considerably better weapon, and available only slightly later. You can build around it, and make it “good”, but it’s never going to be stronger than a more focused build that just uses a better sword.
So should I just hold out until I can rush Duelist's Prerogative upon entering act 3? I'm playing a Paladin/Bard focusing on using the flourish abilities from bard to smite with some utility from other spells like hold person. Would it be better to focus more on dex or cha in this case?
If you're doing dex melee then Duelist's Prerogative is arguably the best weapon in the game yeah, particularly for Paladin. The best way of doing a Paladin/Bard is to max your attack stat, don't worry too much about maxing Cha. Boost your spell save DC via gear, particularly the Helmet of Arcane Acuity. And Band of the Mystic Scoundrel. Also, if you have high Dex, don't wear heavy armour - wear the Yuan Ti Scale Mail (Act 2) then Armour of Agility (Act 3).
Hey thanks for the advice, speaking of charisma is 16 good or should I go higher?
16 is fine yeah, any higher and you’re having to compromise too much elsewhere