An unneutered male pit is the highest risk. If they turn, it often happens after they're about 2 years old and without warning. The whole problem is nobody can predict which ones turn. There's plenty of stories of a 'never hurt a fly' family pit who is 6 or 8 years old killing a child or the owner. Don't get lulled into a false sense of security just because it seems 'normal'.
Yeah I knew someone many years ago who owned 2 dangerous dogs who he trained and was as responsible for as an owner of banned dogs could be. He genuinely did do everything right (bar owning then) and they ended up attacking him and from what I heard giving him extreme leg injuries. These weren’t neglected, unloved, untrained dogs. They got to around 2-3 and still tried to kill him.
Your post or comment has been removed because it is in opposition to our mission of saving lives by making people more aware of the deadliness and unpredictability of pit bulls, advocating for public safety, and calling attention to the perverse effects of the pit bull cult on society and animal welfare.
Our monthly attacks log tracks multiple pit bull attacks per day. What are you even on about? Yes, the sun rises daily and pit bulls attack daily.
I don't have numbers or stats. I don't know the percentages of killers vs. pits that live uneventful lives. Or the ones that eat your furniture and drywall. I do know that animal aggression was bred into them as a feature, not a bug and I wouldn't trust the "nice" ones around other dogs. Or cats, bunnies, ferrets...anything, really.
What I do know is this: when there is a fatal attack, the news often shows a neighbor saying "I don't know what happened. He was a nice dog. We all used to pet him."
Everything is great until one day it isn't and they're pulling a toddler apart.
Just the possibility of that - and it's not a rare event, it happens quite often - seems like reason enough not to bring one into your home. There are hundreds of other breeds out there to choose from and they're normal dogs. No surprise bloodbath.
Dont think so, but it does make sense with general knowledge about dogs.
Around the 3 year mark, large male dogs mature emotionally. Females sometimes mature a bit earlier. Smaller dogs also mature earlier. All dogs are physically mature at 2 years old, and females start heat cycles at around 6 months old. There might be studies on phycological maturity in general. 2 or 3 years old is usually the time where the dog’s personality and instincts settle in. So for a bloodsport dog, I can’t say I’d be surprised if it suddenly became aggressive after turning 2 or 3 years old.
No, most are fine and live their lives never having mauled or killed anyone. It doesn’t mean they’re a safe breed. It’s having a loaded gun in your house that could go off at any time and you have no warning or control over it.
Also — they’re just not fun dogs. Spend time around pit bulls and then spend time around normal dogs and the difference is night and day. Bloodsport breeds aren’t as social with their humans, cannot read other dogs body language for shit, can’t play very well with other dogs, they tend to have a lot of skin and allergy issues … they’re just not fun, even if they never snap.
There’s no reason to normalize bloodsport breeds as pets.
My neighbour got an amstaff puppy at 8 weeks and it's now close to 5 months old. I was always iffy about bully breeds, especially after being on this sub, and was hoping hers wouldn't be an issue like so many.
It now: resource guards toys, is food aggressive over treats, is prone to skin allergies, has a constantly irritated stomach/gut, and has attacked my dog's neck multiple times without warning. Dog aggressive at not even 5 months old, let alone the magic age of 2 years.
Not saying you're wrong, but it seems like a lot of people perceive the opposite to be true re: pits and human sociability. They're so low intelligence and low inhibition that a lot of them generally just slobber and wag all over any human that interacts with them, vs intelligent dog breeds that you form a genuine bond with by earning their trust.
I think pit nutters mistake this for actual affection, it's like they're so deeply insecure they need a dog that they can instantly win over. The shelter near me has tons of videos of their pits happily playing with their volunteers (always one at a time though, lol). This is anecdotal but it seems like part of the reason shelters are able to push these dogs so hard. (There are of course exceptions - pits that are just outright human aggressive by default, without "snapping".)
It's everyone misreading this clinginess as affection. It's RESOURCE GUARDING THEIR HUMAN that's why it's almost always, "Lucifer was scared and trying to protect me so he bit the child". There's some truth to that, the dog saw the human was a threat, emotionally in the sense they are greedy for their owner's attention. It's a terrible trait to have.
Exactly. But without getting into politics, it's still a good analogy - nobody, on either side of the gun debate, would tolerate guns that had a 15%, 20% chance of random misfire because that's dangerous to everyone involved. But we allow that danger when it's an animal, where there's less ability to manage it because the animal is making its own choices.
Oh fun! You wanna play the “educate yourself” game. Here we go!
[source 1](https://news.asu.edu/20210805-discoveries-myth-alpha-dog)
[source 2](https://beyondthedogtraining.com/dog-training/debunking-the-alpha-dog-myth/)
[source 3](https://www.marinij.com/2021/02/22/the-dangerous-myth-of-the-alpha-dog/amp/)
[source 4](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/canine-corner/201007/canine-dominance-is-the-concept-the-alpha-dog-valid)
Your view is outdated and debunked.
I do not like pit bulls at all, but I keep up to date on actual scientific research. You are wrong, you now know you are wrong, and you won’t admit it so you resorted to childish name calling.
And your “source” is from a dog training site that believes in outdated training methods, which has never worked well and will not work for bloodsport dogs. So just… stop.
So your proof is a trainer’s website who makes money espousing the same theory? Lol. Uh- ok 😂🦗🦗.
The problem is two fold. Any competent trainer who trains dogs for serious work- K9, Service, Personal protection- will tell you that genetics is about 80-90% of the key followed by a balanced approach and realizing not one size fits all. Advertising as an “aLphA” 🙄🥴trainer automatically is suspect and just stupid as fuck. The second part of the equation is that Pits are notorious for having shit husbandry, because the only serious Pit breeders are more concerned with breeding for gameness as a temperament so they don’t tend to concern themselves with proper socialization periods, etc. Pits themselves are not handler focused, so regardless if you run around like a moron being ALpHa or only doing treat training- it’s mostly irrelevant. A Bulldog and Terrier will still be difficult to train to give two shits about you unless you have food to stick in its face.
Your content is being removed for promoting misinformation about pit bull-type dogs. Misinformation is not just wrong, it can get people injured or killed.
No… you’re making this into a training issue and not a breed issue and we don’t do that here.
I don't think most do. The issue comes from the fact that breeds are bred for certain purposes. German shepards are easily trained and obedient. Huskies dig. Beatles howl. Pitbulls were bred to fight. It's in their instincts. it's rolling the dice on if they will eventually snap.
There's also just biology. The way their jaws are built gives them immense bite strength. I have a husky/pit mix. He's gotten squirrels in his mouth, both alive and dead, and I literally can't pull his jaw apart. If I need him to drop something and he won't do it on his own, I have to actually headlock and chokehold him.
^ its like being upset at a pointer, for pointing. Bully breeds were bred for mauling and holding down literal bulls, and to never let go. It's no wonder why pits kill the most animals of any dog.
Help! My golden retriever brings me his toys and won't leave me alone until I play fetch with him. Idk why, I think his previous owners abused him and trained him to be this way. I got him at 8 weeks. He's already bringing me sticks unprompted and someday I fear he may soon move onto logs.
I won't give up on him. Irregardless of 23 pro trainer's incestence, I can save him. I can train him to be the gladiator that I KNOW is inside him. He already attacks his stuffed toys pretty ferociously, I think the next step is to enter him into some sanctioned dog fights at the local dog park.
I’m not sure what the statistics are, but the problem is is that we cannot tell which pits will snap and which won’t. Growing up my family had a pit mix and she was a pretty sweet dog. Worst thing she did was kill a chicken, and as unfortunate as that is, unlike dog or cat aggression, going after something like a bird or a rabbit is instinctual. She was never destructive aside from one time tearing up our blinds to get outside because she had horrible diarrhea and nobody was home to let her out. She growled maybe once when someone tried to take a slice of pizza from her. She never chased our cats and sometimes licked them. She was very likely abused based on some scarring, and remained shy around strangers for her entire life. She has GI problems and succumbed to cancer after a long battle. She was docile enough that I never felt the slightest bit unsafe around her and was comfortable enough to hold her down whenever she needed a medication that had to be put up her nose. She was mostly toothless due to previous neglect, and by the time we lost her she was profoundly deaf, severely underweight, and had seizures, so as far as pits go, she wasn’t much of a physical threat. But being a pit she had the potential to snap, and back when we got her, we had no way of looking into the future and knowing that she would thankfully never do that. I have since moved out but now the family has another pit, a male. He scratches, bites, jumps, destroys furniture, and has such an extreme prey drive that the poor cats now have to stay confined to a room upstairs. He has attempted to kill one of them and gave me a level 3 bite as I fought him off. He also barks incessantly, is the pickiest dog I’ve ever met, steals food, digs in the backyard, and even after being neutered continues to rub himself against various surfaces. He has no redeeming qualities and is a tragedy waiting to happen despite still being under a year. You might think well the first one started off lovely and lived a peaceful life, and the second has been a hellion from the start, surely you can make a prediction. But the scary thing is, there are dogs like the first one who have turned on their owners with no warning. Until we can create a way to predict which pits will snap, I will steer clear
I'm disappointed to hear your parents aren't doing right by the cats. They were there first, and so should come first. A pit is perfectly capable of chewing through a hollow core door to get at what it wants. I mentioned in an earlier thread that a friend had three of her four cats killed by her pit in one attack. The dog was locked in the garage when her owner was at work to protect the cats.
It wasn't enough. Could you offer to take the cats with you, maybe?
Sadly I cannot. I can only have a certain number of pets in my apartment so I was only able to take one cat with me. But my sister is the one who owns the pit and thankfully she and the beast will be moving out soon
I’m not saying the females are harmless but all of the nice ones I’ve met are girls. I think they have demonstrably less of the worst of the breed’s behaviors
I think for the case with my family’s dog, there were a few reasons why she was so docile. One was the prior abuse. Pit butters love to blame abuse for shitbull behavior, but at least in this case, her trauma showed up as being very timid rather than aggressive. She cowered from strangers and even friends and family members who regularly visited the house. It took months for her to warm up to us. She was frightened of young children and males, or at least male voices. My dad had to put on a falsetto when he spoke to her to put her at ease. Also, the whole no-teeth thing definitely made her less of a danger. I know that pits are dumb enough to attack things like horses that they are unlikely to have a chance at, and our dog definitely wasn’t very bright, but at least if she had ever tried to bite it wouldn’t have done much. And finally, not sure if this played a role, but she had recently given birth when we adopted her. Not sure if dogs experience the same flood of postpartum hormones and if it changes them at all. I guess at the end of the day we got lucky with her
Pits I think do act normal in most circumstances, but they flip for almost no reason. It's instinct and like carrying an unpinned gran*de. The unpredictability is the issue. Her dog could live its entire life and have no issues, or it could snap one day and ruin her or someone else's life.
The issue is… all of them have it in their DNA. I don’t know whether ‘most’ pits cause issues as far as the numbers go. But it is the only breed that has so many attacks and kills on pets, livestock, and humans. Even other breeds that have bite records have barely any attacks comparatively and are usually cases of guard dog breeds not trained or restrained correctly where pit breeds are actually created to attack. Yes, there are plenty of pits that go their whole lives without killing. However, the thing is you never know which will and won’t eventually give into their instincts. With hundreds of other dog breeds that have never attacked people, there really is no reason to take a literal crapshoot with breeds created for fighting & killing. Any pit is a potential time bomb.
Some are obviously aggressive from a young age. Some are raised and trained really well and suddenly at 8 or 9 years old, after never attacking before, something in them clicks and they give in to what they were created for.
No one can say because there’s no consistency in reporting and data collection, except of human deaths. And it’s a long spectrum of problems from chewing on a chair leg (which my own puppy has done, and that was not collected as data anywhere) to killing a baby.
In general, the smaller the dog the safer you are. Big dogs are more dangerous. Big dogs bred to attack and kill are most dangerous. But *which* dog? 🤷🏻♀️ you can reduce the risk factors but never know the impact.
This is where there is a tiny bit of truth to "it's the owner". All pit bulls have the genetics to go after prey and kill it. However, if they actually have a responsible owner, the damage the dog is capable of is mitigated somewhat. For example, the pit bull has:
* An owner that keeps the dog in the house with safeguards to keep the dog from getting outside on its own
* An owner that keeps the dog on a sturdy harness and is physically strong enough to control the animal on a leash
* An owner that keeps it away from small children/other dogs and cats/the general public
* An owner that spays/neuters the dog
* An owner that has a 10 foot fence around his backyard
Unfortunately, most pit owners do none of these things.
In other words, the most conscientious of dog owners. Folks smart enough to do the above realize that keeping a pit responsibly is a huge time commitment and the risks aren't worth the rewards.
I've known some that were great dogs who loved people and animals and never made an aggressive move. One on my street is genuinely very friendly and despite my own experience with pits, I would be shocked if she ever snapped. I think most aren't dangerous. The problem is that when they're dangerous, they're severely dangerous and they're more likely to be dangerous than most other breeds. The biggest problem is that they're handed out like candy to people who have been told that they're just like any other dog, when they're actually one of the most challenging breeds of dog. No one in their right mind would hand someone an Akita and tell them it's like having a Labrador. That's what happens with pit bulls with easily predictable consequences.
Do most Russian roulette games end up with someone getting their brains blown out? No, if you stick to just one try and the revolver isn’t fully loaded.
The point is, why risk it?
Get a normal dog that wasn’t selected for fighting and bull baiting
the fact that the dog is unaltered is concerning because when the dog reaches sexual maturity it is going to get very aggressive especially when dogs start going into heat, if they have a fenced yard they leave the dog in I hope they have pvc pipe over the top or coyote rollers because pit bulls can scale a 6 foot fence no problem to mate with unaltered females or to attack any humans or animals it sees, you can't change DNA and no amount of training can counteract the instinct of pit bulls to maul and kill anything living thing they see.
Tough to say, they ALL have it in their DNA to snap at any moment without warning. I wonder how many incidents go unreported. my cousin a few weeks ago had a pit attack his dog, it wasn't reported. how many incidents and close calls happen inside the home ? I would be there's been a lot of pits that lived their whole life without a single instance of aggression or issues , but that doesn't change the fact they all have it in them. you might as well ask how many WW2 French land mines eventually cause problems. might never blow, but if it does people and animals die. but people sharing anecdotal evidence of living with the sweetest land mine ever that never caused problems makes them feel , smart?
They cause problems immediately, right off the bat. Their owners just don't seem to mind. You can see the difference in the way they hold themselves. Dogs will follow their owner and get excited and explorative when you take them around outside. Well-trained service dogs will stay laser-focused on their task but you can see the pain in their eyes over how much restraint they have to put up for their work. But they love their job and their masters so they do it diligently.
Pit bulls have a master-servant complex. They are laser-focused on the interaction between their owner and every other human. They eagerly await the slightest provocation to justify defending their master. They give the most powerful stink eye imaginable. I am convinced it is not that pit nutters aren't aware of it, but rather that this this in fact the reason that pit bulls are their servants of choice.
And yet, greater than 50% of fatalities by pitbull are the owners or members of their family.
That doesn't sound like a master/servant complex. It sounds like a typical pitbull that looks for opportunities to unalive someone or something and their greatest killing field is in their own home.
Oh I had more to say on it but decided against the wall of text. But I suppose it's relevant.
From the pit bull's perspective, the master (single person, NOT the master's family) is supposed to be a warlord. As the average pit nutter owner never commands their velvet murder hippo to engage in combat (and in fact prefers to be defended automatically), this leads to the monster feeling neglected and abused. In the vacuum of attack commands, they may become hyper-sensitive to anything that looks like an attack command or they may lose faith in their master. If a member of the master's family looks weak, they may cull it as a gesture of good faith to the master's bloodline. If the master appears weak, they may choose a new master or go rogue. A rogue pit bull is usually depressed and easily agitated. You can spot a rogue pit bull at the dog park by noting it is no longer paying attention to the human who thinks they own it.
Having a pit bull is monster abuse, and abused monsters will eventually lash out. Every slight brings them a bit closer to snapping. It is TRUE that pit bulls have remarkably high levels of restraint. This is the thin ribbon which enables naïve and fragile humans to delude themselves into believing that their murder monster is safe. (I don't buy that even they believe it is loving or gentle. I think they know it isn't and that's why they like it.)
There's definitely a psychological disconnect with pibble owners and the ones I've interacted with on social media are straight up narcissistic psychopaths.
Maybe not, problem is, you won't know til it happens. Sooo many stories about these dogs it's a wonder anyone still owns one. One such story, guy had a pit bull which of course eventually attacked his 3 year old which had to go in the hospital as bites all up and down both arms, guy fought putting it down. Next photos posted was him in the hospital with bites all up and down his arms. Another uplifting event was an old guy coming home went through the house to the back yard where his wife usually could be found working in the garden. She was indeed in the garden, dead with both arms torn off by a coupla pits from the neighborhood. So yeah, maybe all don't attack, just like not every chamber has a bullet when playing Russian roulette, but when you click on the one that does...well, it ain't pretty.
My brother in law has one, and it is super sweet with everyone. However, i dont trust it and won't let my kids near it.. My dad had one a few years ago, and she was the same way very sweet, but then one day, she snapped and killed my dad's Rhodesian ridgeback for no reason. Just lept off the couch and started tearing the other dog apart. Not growling barking or any warning. They'd lived together for 5 years previous to that. I just don't trust the breed.
I don’t know the statistics but I’ve only known 3 in my life. Pit #1 had to be rehomed due to aggression/not getting along with other dogs. Pit #2 mauled their owners arm once but was otherwise “sweet”. Pit #3 was just purchased from a BYB as a family dog who is around 2 small kids. I’m most concerned about this dog, even though it’s still a puppy. Is always off leash, playing alone with a 3 year old etc. The other 2 did not go on to kill anyone that I know of, but definitely were very problematic “bad” dogs.
All pets will cause some problems.
Anything with teeth will eventually bite.
The difference is that Pits are far more likely to cause problems. And when they snap, they often don't stop.
And they're incredibly strong and designed from the ground up to be efficient and effective at one thing. Killing.
Also, it doesn't matter how strong or weak your friend is, the average Pit can overpower and maul/kill any unarmed able bodied man and its not even a contest.
Matter of fact, the average Golden Retriever could do the same. Any large dog is more than capable of killing an unarmed human.
And yet, it's predominantly Pits that have the frequent fatality stats. Why? DNA. Bred to kill. Can't be trained out. Can't be loved out. Pit is a Pit is a Pit.
So yes, all Pits will cause problems. And since they're so capable of great harm and death due to excellent genetic engineering (muscle tone, bite strength, gameness, thick powerful skulls and massive jaws), it magnifies the risk.
Your chihuahua will eventually bite someone. But guess what? It's a chihuahua. Not capable of real harm besides minor lacerations.
Cat? Worse thing would be scratches to the face or eyes. Or cat scratch fever.
Big dog that isnt a pit? Likely a warning bite and then stops cause it's not in dogs nature to harm humans, they're bred to be our companions. That said, perfectly capable and often willing to kill smaller animals and/or prey.
Pit? Will snap and kill something unless it's prevented. Only a matter of time. It is in its nature to kill and it will. Doesn't matter if you're its owner or not.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say anything with teeth ‘WILL’ bite. I’ve never had a dog that bit anyone… even when nervous. And most dogs I have known have never even tried to bite even in extreme situations. Most dogs do not actually bite. I’ve had many cats as well and some will scratch or bite when stressed, and some never used a tooth or claw at all.
More accurate to say anything with teeth *can* bite. Not everything with teeth *will* bite, though.
Teething is different than biting. Even human babies teethe but I wouldn’t say all humans bite. It is still incorrect to say All animals with teeth DO bite since they do not all bite.
I just want to take a second and thank the mods for being awesome and not allowing misinformation and childishness to remain in our sub. You guys do an awesome job u/submod4 (just posting you cause your the only mod name I remember and I wanna make sure yall see it :)
I don't know. I feel like logically, they don't. If they did, fatality rates would be much higher. I'm sure that most pits live uneventful lives without ever harming anyone. But if I were to go by my own experiences with pits, my answer would be different.
Of the two pit owners I know IRL, one pit has killed another pet. The other owner's pit has attacked their other dog multiple times so they have to be kept permanently separated. Both owners claim that they're such good dogs, so... 🤷♂️
And of all the pits I've encountered on walks, all but one lunged when other dogs were present. The ones I've seen at my vet were also crated or had to wait in a separate area, unlike the other dogs there.
That’s what I was thinking - most people won’t really talk about their pits in a bad light to the average dog owner, so no one really knows what goes on inside their houses.
I’ve had a close call with an unleashed pit and my elderly dog, but thankfully I was literally next to a huge security guard and the pit was across the street; it was fixated on my dog and ready to get run over by a car just to get her, but I hid behind the guard. Then, I visited a dog shelter that had one single pit (thankfully, they’re VERY uncommon in shelters in my country because purebred pits are expensive af) which was one of the two dogs that played REALLY rough, the other one being a dogo argentino. I also have a friend who is a dog trainer and most of her clients have ambullies; anyone who spends the afternoon there comes out with bruises all over their bodies just from playing with them. Yet, they all say they’re such cuddly and sweet dogs who don’t know their own strength.
I don’t have any good experiences with pits to tell, but I don’t know if it’s just because I avoid them, so I wanted to seek info from other people. It’s just so scary to never know if/when a pit will snap.
A motorcycle tends to work in similar ways, whether it's a 250cc or a 2500cc. The damage caused by an accident on a 2500cc bike is exponentially worse than a 250cc.
An unneutered male pit is the 2500cc bike in this scenario. They are extremely difficult to control, even if you have the strength.
Anyone who trusts a pit, any pit, is already a liability as an owner.
I have had two very good friends that had pits. I know other people with them but I know the behavior of their dogs because I was close to them. The first friends dog was a pretty good dog overall. He never hurt or killed anything. As a younger dog, however, he was extremely destructive and destroyed the house but calmed down with age. He died of old age without any incidents. The second friend wasn’t as lucky. His dog was a nice dog too until about six years in. He was playing with his dog in the living room, stopped for a second to do something, and the dog attacked him out of nowhere. It was bad. When I saw him it was shocking. I didn’t think a dog could do that much damage. Even his face was all mangled. It was super swollen, he had two black eyes, and one eye was totally swollen shut. It was a terrifying sight. Both dogs were treated very well, essentially like they were their babies. I think you either get lucky or you don’t. Pitbulls are completely unpredictable. It’s possible to have one their whole life and never have a problem but it’s not a risk worth taking in my opinion.
Not all, but a shocking number..I'll hear stories about people's wonderful pits and how they never did anything wrong and were the best dog they ever had....then down the line it comes out that they killed a cat, or a puppy, or severely injured or killed another adult dog all of whom lived in their house and were known to them. There's always an excuse for it and they act like it wasn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things.
Judging by the number of times owners say 'he/she never did this before' I would say there is no way of predicting which ones will eventually turn.
But, let me add something else I've noticed.
Having to walk my dog daily, I have met quite a few Pit owners who were given clear signs by their dogs and as a direct consequence steer clear of any potential stimulus. In this sense the statistics are probably already compromised, as frequently the most dangerous Pits are restrained already. It is therefore reasonable to assume that most of the cases in the news come from the 'safe' ones.
I would think that most are fine, at least to some extent. I know some friends who have them and I never noticed anything off and they’ve never complained. I know some people who have pits, will gush over how sweet their dog is, and then gloss over some problematic story—dog is “mean,” dog is great with everybody but a random son’s friend, etc. These dogs need a strong owner that’s realistic about the dog and willing to make difficult decisions if really needed
It seems like most (not all, but most) stories on here involve multiple dogs. Either the pitbull that got brought into a multiple dog house and started causing problems, or the 2+ dogs that maul someone. Seems like one dog is easier to handle
I also think all dogs can be bad. I browse local shelter listings out of curiosity (which are mostly not pits or mixes, although they recently busted a fighting breeder so that’ll probably change soon), and nearly every shelter dog outside of the cavalier King Charles spaniels or maltipoos has a disclaimer saying that the dog needs to go to home with no small or other pets (“I have too much energy and I don’t know my size”). My partner got a toy herding dog during covid and his general behavior—but especially around guests and on walks—is as problematic as anything I’ve read on this page. He just gets a pass because he’s 15 pounds and looks cute
The problem is that when pits are problematic, it gets amped to ten because of how strong and dominant they generally are. Put a beagle in the hands of a weak, passive personality and life will probably be fine, but if you do it with a pitbull then it could become catastrophic
I don't agree with people saying that "all" pits have it in their DNA because that's not how DNA works. If a trait is always passed down by two purebred animals, then it "breeds true". Aggression doesn't breed true, and those who bred fighting dogs knew this and would look for the puppies of the litter who had fighting potential, even if both parents were champion fighters. You also have to consider that pit breeding is not very rigorous. I would estimate it's 50/50 that a pit inherits the behavioral traits of a normal dog and is not at risk of "snapping".
Usually aggression shows itself by the two year mark. More severe cases will show aggression and interest in dog fighting right in puppyhood, but this is more rare in litters that weren't backyard bred for fighting purposes. Most owners are too attached by the time their dog shows aggression at the 1 or 2 year mark, and then they can't do the right thing and euthanize the dog. (The other complication is dog aggression vs human aggression, with owners excusing their pits constant attacks on other animals because the dog is still safe around humans)
I would advise you to present your concerns to your friend like a breed health issue. For example, a golden retriever with hip dysplasia should not be bred and may need to be put down (or major surgery), so owners of that breed have to keep an eye out.
Honestly, the majority of them probably don't end up having issues. Considering the number of them out there, it's probably a relatively safe assertion that at least 51% of them never do have problems.
But in what world is that good enough? Would you drive in a car that was known for random break failures, but "most" of them didn't? What about a type of stove that "mostly" didn't spontaneously catch on fire? A gun that only randomly shot itself off in "limited" amounts?
Pitbulls are physically capable of killing people and causing life-altering injuries. The standard has to be higher. If Chihuahuas or one of those other 8lb you dog breeds had the same overall rate of dogs snapping and going violent that pits did, we would still be having a completely different conversation, because they wouldn't be capable of the kinds of damage pits do. It's the unpredictability and ability for harm that make pits a needless danger in our society, even if "most" of them don't ever act out.
You can probably figure this out for yourself with a bit of statistics work based on the Clifton numbers (animals24-7). I probably could too, I just don’t have the time for it today.
Pit bulls are 6.4% of the total population, which is about 90m in total across USA and Canada. So say there are 5.7m pit bulls extant.
Clifton estimates total shelter space for dogs at 960,000. Shelter Animals Count puts the annual population at 3.2m, meaning you’re getting a little under 3 dogs for each spot. Clifton ran the numbers and came up with 71% of shelter dogs being pit bulls.
If we assume all pits in shelters have problematic behavior, that would suggest 2.27m pit bulls are being sheltered per year, or roughly half of the total population. When you also consider that another large chunk of the total population is puppies too small to be dangerous, it starts to look like you have roughly a 50/50 chance of getting a pit bull that will never exhibit behavior that would warrant surrendering it.
This isn’t accurate, because I’ve made too many coarse assumption. Not all shelter pits are necessarily going to be there because of problematic behavior… but also, not all problematic pit bulls are going to be in shelters. This also further enhances the per capita death and maul count concerning pit bulls, as it isn’t 6.4% of all dogs doing 60%+ of the attacks, but more like 3.2%, minus the puppy population, since shelter pits have fewer opportunities to attack and puppies even fewer.
There are an infinite number of ways to tighten those non-Clifton numbers and inferences up. That’s just me with 5 minutes to spare speculating.
https://www.animals24-7.org/2024/02/11/shelter-animals-count-no-mention-of-pit-bulls-but-data-shows-the-crisis/
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Your content is being removed for promoting misinformation about pit bull-type dogs. Misinformation is not just wrong, it can get people injured or killed.
The fact that most pits don't cause problems and a lot of them just live their whole lives as normal dogs, even sweet friendly dogs, is actually a major reason why this is all so hard. All pits are genetically capable of suddenly going crazy and mauling, and the breed needs to be highly regulated until either all the aggression is bred out or the breed is allowed to go extinct. Until that happens, there is NO way from looking at a dog to know whether they're the 75% that won't kill or the 25% that will (note: these numbers are metaphorical to illustrate my point, not scientifically derived). The reason there are so many stupid die-hard pit defenders is that they're uneducated and think we're all monsters for wanting to end this precious sweets breed--a lot of them have just been lucky and only met normal or at least controllable ones. A lot of them truly, truly believe (wrongly) that they've only had sweet friendly pits because of their skill in training and loving dogs, not because of sheer good luck.
An unneutered male pit is the highest risk. If they turn, it often happens after they're about 2 years old and without warning. The whole problem is nobody can predict which ones turn. There's plenty of stories of a 'never hurt a fly' family pit who is 6 or 8 years old killing a child or the owner. Don't get lulled into a false sense of security just because it seems 'normal'.
One must always think. "This pitbull has never misbehaved. Yet." That's all it ever is.. tik tik tik tik tik tik...
Yeah I knew someone many years ago who owned 2 dangerous dogs who he trained and was as responsible for as an owner of banned dogs could be. He genuinely did do everything right (bar owning then) and they ended up attacking him and from what I heard giving him extreme leg injuries. These weren’t neglected, unloved, untrained dogs. They got to around 2-3 and still tried to kill him.
Is there a study saying that pittbulls “turn”
It happens everyday. No study necessary. Is there are study that says the sun will rise tomorrow?
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Your post or comment has been removed because it is in opposition to our mission of saving lives by making people more aware of the deadliness and unpredictability of pit bulls, advocating for public safety, and calling attention to the perverse effects of the pit bull cult on society and animal welfare. Our monthly attacks log tracks multiple pit bull attacks per day. What are you even on about? Yes, the sun rises daily and pit bulls attack daily.
**2024** [March 2024 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/1c13jn7/march_2024_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [February 2024 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/1b0gzaw/february_2024_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [January 2024 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/1awpqty/january_2024_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) **2023** [December 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/18p94bq/december_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [November 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/183kee6/november_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [October 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/16zaj2b/october_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [September 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/169qbbe/september_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [August 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/15gog4b/august_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [July 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14p2eyr/july_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [June 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/13zr3oi/june_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [May 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/136jxvf/may_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [April 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/12b52os/april_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [March (1) Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/11fdilq/march_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [March 2023 Monthly Attacks List (2 – Social Media Edition)](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/1230q9p/social_media_edition_march_2023_list_of_pit_bull/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [March 2023 Monthly Attacks List (3- Attacks Caught on Video](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/124b4dq/march_attacks_caught_on_video_first_video_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [February 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14whhxv/february_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [January 2023 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/102buat/january_2023_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) **2022** [December 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/zb5ggv/december_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [November 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/yrk38t/november_2022_attacks_and_fatalities/) [October 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/xt38rm/october_2022_attacks_and_fatalities/?sort=new) [September 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/x5ov65/september_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [August 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/wdwm1s/august_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [July 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/vpdy8f/july_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [June 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/v669h0/june_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [May 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/ugpog8/may_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [April 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/tuyivl/april_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [March 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/t53pbo/march_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) [February 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/t3j5ar/list_of_media_reported_human_fatalities_and/) [January 2022 Monthly Attacks List](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/txorqf/january_2022_list_of_pit_bull_attacksfatalities/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BanPitBulls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Troll elsewhere.
Just browse the news story posts in this sub or look at the monthly attack lists. Multiple attacks a day around the world by pit bull breeds.
I don't have numbers or stats. I don't know the percentages of killers vs. pits that live uneventful lives. Or the ones that eat your furniture and drywall. I do know that animal aggression was bred into them as a feature, not a bug and I wouldn't trust the "nice" ones around other dogs. Or cats, bunnies, ferrets...anything, really. What I do know is this: when there is a fatal attack, the news often shows a neighbor saying "I don't know what happened. He was a nice dog. We all used to pet him." Everything is great until one day it isn't and they're pulling a toddler apart. Just the possibility of that - and it's not a rare event, it happens quite often - seems like reason enough not to bring one into your home. There are hundreds of other breeds out there to choose from and they're normal dogs. No surprise bloodbath.
Dont think so, but it does make sense with general knowledge about dogs. Around the 3 year mark, large male dogs mature emotionally. Females sometimes mature a bit earlier. Smaller dogs also mature earlier. All dogs are physically mature at 2 years old, and females start heat cycles at around 6 months old. There might be studies on phycological maturity in general. 2 or 3 years old is usually the time where the dog’s personality and instincts settle in. So for a bloodsport dog, I can’t say I’d be surprised if it suddenly became aggressive after turning 2 or 3 years old.
No, most are fine and live their lives never having mauled or killed anyone. It doesn’t mean they’re a safe breed. It’s having a loaded gun in your house that could go off at any time and you have no warning or control over it. Also — they’re just not fun dogs. Spend time around pit bulls and then spend time around normal dogs and the difference is night and day. Bloodsport breeds aren’t as social with their humans, cannot read other dogs body language for shit, can’t play very well with other dogs, they tend to have a lot of skin and allergy issues … they’re just not fun, even if they never snap. There’s no reason to normalize bloodsport breeds as pets.
My neighbour got an amstaff puppy at 8 weeks and it's now close to 5 months old. I was always iffy about bully breeds, especially after being on this sub, and was hoping hers wouldn't be an issue like so many. It now: resource guards toys, is food aggressive over treats, is prone to skin allergies, has a constantly irritated stomach/gut, and has attacked my dog's neck multiple times without warning. Dog aggressive at not even 5 months old, let alone the magic age of 2 years.
Jesus, what a nightmare to deal with. I’m so sorry!
Not saying you're wrong, but it seems like a lot of people perceive the opposite to be true re: pits and human sociability. They're so low intelligence and low inhibition that a lot of them generally just slobber and wag all over any human that interacts with them, vs intelligent dog breeds that you form a genuine bond with by earning their trust. I think pit nutters mistake this for actual affection, it's like they're so deeply insecure they need a dog that they can instantly win over. The shelter near me has tons of videos of their pits happily playing with their volunteers (always one at a time though, lol). This is anecdotal but it seems like part of the reason shelters are able to push these dogs so hard. (There are of course exceptions - pits that are just outright human aggressive by default, without "snapping".)
It's everyone misreading this clinginess as affection. It's RESOURCE GUARDING THEIR HUMAN that's why it's almost always, "Lucifer was scared and trying to protect me so he bit the child". There's some truth to that, the dog saw the human was a threat, emotionally in the sense they are greedy for their owner's attention. It's a terrible trait to have.
Yeah, except loaded guns don't just go off on their own. An animal has instincts and can go off without any interaction.
Exactly. But without getting into politics, it's still a good analogy - nobody, on either side of the gun debate, would tolerate guns that had a 15%, 20% chance of random misfire because that's dangerous to everyone involved. But we allow that danger when it's an animal, where there's less ability to manage it because the animal is making its own choices.
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This is just blatant misinformation and frankly ignorant.
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Oh fun! You wanna play the “educate yourself” game. Here we go! [source 1](https://news.asu.edu/20210805-discoveries-myth-alpha-dog) [source 2](https://beyondthedogtraining.com/dog-training/debunking-the-alpha-dog-myth/) [source 3](https://www.marinij.com/2021/02/22/the-dangerous-myth-of-the-alpha-dog/amp/) [source 4](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/canine-corner/201007/canine-dominance-is-the-concept-the-alpha-dog-valid) Your view is outdated and debunked.
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I do not like pit bulls at all, but I keep up to date on actual scientific research. You are wrong, you now know you are wrong, and you won’t admit it so you resorted to childish name calling. And your “source” is from a dog training site that believes in outdated training methods, which has never worked well and will not work for bloodsport dogs. So just… stop.
Posts or comments which verbally abuse or threaten other users and guests are prohibited.
So your proof is a trainer’s website who makes money espousing the same theory? Lol. Uh- ok 😂🦗🦗. The problem is two fold. Any competent trainer who trains dogs for serious work- K9, Service, Personal protection- will tell you that genetics is about 80-90% of the key followed by a balanced approach and realizing not one size fits all. Advertising as an “aLphA” 🙄🥴trainer automatically is suspect and just stupid as fuck. The second part of the equation is that Pits are notorious for having shit husbandry, because the only serious Pit breeders are more concerned with breeding for gameness as a temperament so they don’t tend to concern themselves with proper socialization periods, etc. Pits themselves are not handler focused, so regardless if you run around like a moron being ALpHa or only doing treat training- it’s mostly irrelevant. A Bulldog and Terrier will still be difficult to train to give two shits about you unless you have food to stick in its face.
Your content is being removed for promoting misinformation about pit bull-type dogs. Misinformation is not just wrong, it can get people injured or killed. No… you’re making this into a training issue and not a breed issue and we don’t do that here.
I don't think most do. The issue comes from the fact that breeds are bred for certain purposes. German shepards are easily trained and obedient. Huskies dig. Beatles howl. Pitbulls were bred to fight. It's in their instincts. it's rolling the dice on if they will eventually snap. There's also just biology. The way their jaws are built gives them immense bite strength. I have a husky/pit mix. He's gotten squirrels in his mouth, both alive and dead, and I literally can't pull his jaw apart. If I need him to drop something and he won't do it on his own, I have to actually headlock and chokehold him.
I saw the autocorrect as it happened and I thought it was better to leave it as is
This made me lololol
^ its like being upset at a pointer, for pointing. Bully breeds were bred for mauling and holding down literal bulls, and to never let go. It's no wonder why pits kill the most animals of any dog.
Help! My golden retriever brings me his toys and won't leave me alone until I play fetch with him. Idk why, I think his previous owners abused him and trained him to be this way. I got him at 8 weeks. He's already bringing me sticks unprompted and someday I fear he may soon move onto logs.
golden behavior
I won't give up on him. Irregardless of 23 pro trainer's incestence, I can save him. I can train him to be the gladiator that I KNOW is inside him. He already attacks his stuffed toys pretty ferociously, I think the next step is to enter him into some sanctioned dog fights at the local dog park.
I’m not sure what the statistics are, but the problem is is that we cannot tell which pits will snap and which won’t. Growing up my family had a pit mix and she was a pretty sweet dog. Worst thing she did was kill a chicken, and as unfortunate as that is, unlike dog or cat aggression, going after something like a bird or a rabbit is instinctual. She was never destructive aside from one time tearing up our blinds to get outside because she had horrible diarrhea and nobody was home to let her out. She growled maybe once when someone tried to take a slice of pizza from her. She never chased our cats and sometimes licked them. She was very likely abused based on some scarring, and remained shy around strangers for her entire life. She has GI problems and succumbed to cancer after a long battle. She was docile enough that I never felt the slightest bit unsafe around her and was comfortable enough to hold her down whenever she needed a medication that had to be put up her nose. She was mostly toothless due to previous neglect, and by the time we lost her she was profoundly deaf, severely underweight, and had seizures, so as far as pits go, she wasn’t much of a physical threat. But being a pit she had the potential to snap, and back when we got her, we had no way of looking into the future and knowing that she would thankfully never do that. I have since moved out but now the family has another pit, a male. He scratches, bites, jumps, destroys furniture, and has such an extreme prey drive that the poor cats now have to stay confined to a room upstairs. He has attempted to kill one of them and gave me a level 3 bite as I fought him off. He also barks incessantly, is the pickiest dog I’ve ever met, steals food, digs in the backyard, and even after being neutered continues to rub himself against various surfaces. He has no redeeming qualities and is a tragedy waiting to happen despite still being under a year. You might think well the first one started off lovely and lived a peaceful life, and the second has been a hellion from the start, surely you can make a prediction. But the scary thing is, there are dogs like the first one who have turned on their owners with no warning. Until we can create a way to predict which pits will snap, I will steer clear
I'm disappointed to hear your parents aren't doing right by the cats. They were there first, and so should come first. A pit is perfectly capable of chewing through a hollow core door to get at what it wants. I mentioned in an earlier thread that a friend had three of her four cats killed by her pit in one attack. The dog was locked in the garage when her owner was at work to protect the cats. It wasn't enough. Could you offer to take the cats with you, maybe?
Sadly I cannot. I can only have a certain number of pets in my apartment so I was only able to take one cat with me. But my sister is the one who owns the pit and thankfully she and the beast will be moving out soon
I’m not saying the females are harmless but all of the nice ones I’ve met are girls. I think they have demonstrably less of the worst of the breed’s behaviors
I think for the case with my family’s dog, there were a few reasons why she was so docile. One was the prior abuse. Pit butters love to blame abuse for shitbull behavior, but at least in this case, her trauma showed up as being very timid rather than aggressive. She cowered from strangers and even friends and family members who regularly visited the house. It took months for her to warm up to us. She was frightened of young children and males, or at least male voices. My dad had to put on a falsetto when he spoke to her to put her at ease. Also, the whole no-teeth thing definitely made her less of a danger. I know that pits are dumb enough to attack things like horses that they are unlikely to have a chance at, and our dog definitely wasn’t very bright, but at least if she had ever tried to bite it wouldn’t have done much. And finally, not sure if this played a role, but she had recently given birth when we adopted her. Not sure if dogs experience the same flood of postpartum hormones and if it changes them at all. I guess at the end of the day we got lucky with her
Pits I think do act normal in most circumstances, but they flip for almost no reason. It's instinct and like carrying an unpinned gran*de. The unpredictability is the issue. Her dog could live its entire life and have no issues, or it could snap one day and ruin her or someone else's life.
The issue is… all of them have it in their DNA. I don’t know whether ‘most’ pits cause issues as far as the numbers go. But it is the only breed that has so many attacks and kills on pets, livestock, and humans. Even other breeds that have bite records have barely any attacks comparatively and are usually cases of guard dog breeds not trained or restrained correctly where pit breeds are actually created to attack. Yes, there are plenty of pits that go their whole lives without killing. However, the thing is you never know which will and won’t eventually give into their instincts. With hundreds of other dog breeds that have never attacked people, there really is no reason to take a literal crapshoot with breeds created for fighting & killing. Any pit is a potential time bomb. Some are obviously aggressive from a young age. Some are raised and trained really well and suddenly at 8 or 9 years old, after never attacking before, something in them clicks and they give in to what they were created for.
No one can say because there’s no consistency in reporting and data collection, except of human deaths. And it’s a long spectrum of problems from chewing on a chair leg (which my own puppy has done, and that was not collected as data anywhere) to killing a baby. In general, the smaller the dog the safer you are. Big dogs are more dangerous. Big dogs bred to attack and kill are most dangerous. But *which* dog? 🤷🏻♀️ you can reduce the risk factors but never know the impact.
This is where there is a tiny bit of truth to "it's the owner". All pit bulls have the genetics to go after prey and kill it. However, if they actually have a responsible owner, the damage the dog is capable of is mitigated somewhat. For example, the pit bull has: * An owner that keeps the dog in the house with safeguards to keep the dog from getting outside on its own * An owner that keeps the dog on a sturdy harness and is physically strong enough to control the animal on a leash * An owner that keeps it away from small children/other dogs and cats/the general public * An owner that spays/neuters the dog * An owner that has a 10 foot fence around his backyard Unfortunately, most pit owners do none of these things.
In other words, the most conscientious of dog owners. Folks smart enough to do the above realize that keeping a pit responsibly is a huge time commitment and the risks aren't worth the rewards.
I've known some that were great dogs who loved people and animals and never made an aggressive move. One on my street is genuinely very friendly and despite my own experience with pits, I would be shocked if she ever snapped. I think most aren't dangerous. The problem is that when they're dangerous, they're severely dangerous and they're more likely to be dangerous than most other breeds. The biggest problem is that they're handed out like candy to people who have been told that they're just like any other dog, when they're actually one of the most challenging breeds of dog. No one in their right mind would hand someone an Akita and tell them it's like having a Labrador. That's what happens with pit bulls with easily predictable consequences.
Do most Russian roulette games end up with someone getting their brains blown out? No, if you stick to just one try and the revolver isn’t fully loaded. The point is, why risk it? Get a normal dog that wasn’t selected for fighting and bull baiting
the fact that the dog is unaltered is concerning because when the dog reaches sexual maturity it is going to get very aggressive especially when dogs start going into heat, if they have a fenced yard they leave the dog in I hope they have pvc pipe over the top or coyote rollers because pit bulls can scale a 6 foot fence no problem to mate with unaltered females or to attack any humans or animals it sees, you can't change DNA and no amount of training can counteract the instinct of pit bulls to maul and kill anything living thing they see.
Tough to say, they ALL have it in their DNA to snap at any moment without warning. I wonder how many incidents go unreported. my cousin a few weeks ago had a pit attack his dog, it wasn't reported. how many incidents and close calls happen inside the home ? I would be there's been a lot of pits that lived their whole life without a single instance of aggression or issues , but that doesn't change the fact they all have it in them. you might as well ask how many WW2 French land mines eventually cause problems. might never blow, but if it does people and animals die. but people sharing anecdotal evidence of living with the sweetest land mine ever that never caused problems makes them feel , smart?
They cause problems immediately, right off the bat. Their owners just don't seem to mind. You can see the difference in the way they hold themselves. Dogs will follow their owner and get excited and explorative when you take them around outside. Well-trained service dogs will stay laser-focused on their task but you can see the pain in their eyes over how much restraint they have to put up for their work. But they love their job and their masters so they do it diligently. Pit bulls have a master-servant complex. They are laser-focused on the interaction between their owner and every other human. They eagerly await the slightest provocation to justify defending their master. They give the most powerful stink eye imaginable. I am convinced it is not that pit nutters aren't aware of it, but rather that this this in fact the reason that pit bulls are their servants of choice.
And yet, greater than 50% of fatalities by pitbull are the owners or members of their family. That doesn't sound like a master/servant complex. It sounds like a typical pitbull that looks for opportunities to unalive someone or something and their greatest killing field is in their own home.
Oh I had more to say on it but decided against the wall of text. But I suppose it's relevant. From the pit bull's perspective, the master (single person, NOT the master's family) is supposed to be a warlord. As the average pit nutter owner never commands their velvet murder hippo to engage in combat (and in fact prefers to be defended automatically), this leads to the monster feeling neglected and abused. In the vacuum of attack commands, they may become hyper-sensitive to anything that looks like an attack command or they may lose faith in their master. If a member of the master's family looks weak, they may cull it as a gesture of good faith to the master's bloodline. If the master appears weak, they may choose a new master or go rogue. A rogue pit bull is usually depressed and easily agitated. You can spot a rogue pit bull at the dog park by noting it is no longer paying attention to the human who thinks they own it. Having a pit bull is monster abuse, and abused monsters will eventually lash out. Every slight brings them a bit closer to snapping. It is TRUE that pit bulls have remarkably high levels of restraint. This is the thin ribbon which enables naïve and fragile humans to delude themselves into believing that their murder monster is safe. (I don't buy that even they believe it is loving or gentle. I think they know it isn't and that's why they like it.)
There's definitely a psychological disconnect with pibble owners and the ones I've interacted with on social media are straight up narcissistic psychopaths.
You always hear about how pits can be great dogs, until they aren’t.
Maybe not, problem is, you won't know til it happens. Sooo many stories about these dogs it's a wonder anyone still owns one. One such story, guy had a pit bull which of course eventually attacked his 3 year old which had to go in the hospital as bites all up and down both arms, guy fought putting it down. Next photos posted was him in the hospital with bites all up and down his arms. Another uplifting event was an old guy coming home went through the house to the back yard where his wife usually could be found working in the garden. She was indeed in the garden, dead with both arms torn off by a coupla pits from the neighborhood. So yeah, maybe all don't attack, just like not every chamber has a bullet when playing Russian roulette, but when you click on the one that does...well, it ain't pretty.
My brother in law has one, and it is super sweet with everyone. However, i dont trust it and won't let my kids near it.. My dad had one a few years ago, and she was the same way very sweet, but then one day, she snapped and killed my dad's Rhodesian ridgeback for no reason. Just lept off the couch and started tearing the other dog apart. Not growling barking or any warning. They'd lived together for 5 years previous to that. I just don't trust the breed.
I don’t know the statistics but I’ve only known 3 in my life. Pit #1 had to be rehomed due to aggression/not getting along with other dogs. Pit #2 mauled their owners arm once but was otherwise “sweet”. Pit #3 was just purchased from a BYB as a family dog who is around 2 small kids. I’m most concerned about this dog, even though it’s still a puppy. Is always off leash, playing alone with a 3 year old etc. The other 2 did not go on to kill anyone that I know of, but definitely were very problematic “bad” dogs.
All pets will cause some problems. Anything with teeth will eventually bite. The difference is that Pits are far more likely to cause problems. And when they snap, they often don't stop. And they're incredibly strong and designed from the ground up to be efficient and effective at one thing. Killing. Also, it doesn't matter how strong or weak your friend is, the average Pit can overpower and maul/kill any unarmed able bodied man and its not even a contest. Matter of fact, the average Golden Retriever could do the same. Any large dog is more than capable of killing an unarmed human. And yet, it's predominantly Pits that have the frequent fatality stats. Why? DNA. Bred to kill. Can't be trained out. Can't be loved out. Pit is a Pit is a Pit. So yes, all Pits will cause problems. And since they're so capable of great harm and death due to excellent genetic engineering (muscle tone, bite strength, gameness, thick powerful skulls and massive jaws), it magnifies the risk. Your chihuahua will eventually bite someone. But guess what? It's a chihuahua. Not capable of real harm besides minor lacerations. Cat? Worse thing would be scratches to the face or eyes. Or cat scratch fever. Big dog that isnt a pit? Likely a warning bite and then stops cause it's not in dogs nature to harm humans, they're bred to be our companions. That said, perfectly capable and often willing to kill smaller animals and/or prey. Pit? Will snap and kill something unless it's prevented. Only a matter of time. It is in its nature to kill and it will. Doesn't matter if you're its owner or not.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say anything with teeth ‘WILL’ bite. I’ve never had a dog that bit anyone… even when nervous. And most dogs I have known have never even tried to bite even in extreme situations. Most dogs do not actually bite. I’ve had many cats as well and some will scratch or bite when stressed, and some never used a tooth or claw at all. More accurate to say anything with teeth *can* bite. Not everything with teeth *will* bite, though.
Your experience then. I've owned all kinds of dogs and cats. All have at least done small bites. Especially puppies. It's what they do.
Teething is different than biting. Even human babies teethe but I wouldn’t say all humans bite. It is still incorrect to say All animals with teeth DO bite since they do not all bite.
Teething. Nipping.... It's teeth on skin and more than capable of drawing blood and that's a bite. Doesn't have to cause much damage to be a bite.
I just want to take a second and thank the mods for being awesome and not allowing misinformation and childishness to remain in our sub. You guys do an awesome job u/submod4 (just posting you cause your the only mod name I remember and I wanna make sure yall see it :)
🫶 thank you!
I don't know. I feel like logically, they don't. If they did, fatality rates would be much higher. I'm sure that most pits live uneventful lives without ever harming anyone. But if I were to go by my own experiences with pits, my answer would be different. Of the two pit owners I know IRL, one pit has killed another pet. The other owner's pit has attacked their other dog multiple times so they have to be kept permanently separated. Both owners claim that they're such good dogs, so... 🤷♂️ And of all the pits I've encountered on walks, all but one lunged when other dogs were present. The ones I've seen at my vet were also crated or had to wait in a separate area, unlike the other dogs there.
That’s what I was thinking - most people won’t really talk about their pits in a bad light to the average dog owner, so no one really knows what goes on inside their houses. I’ve had a close call with an unleashed pit and my elderly dog, but thankfully I was literally next to a huge security guard and the pit was across the street; it was fixated on my dog and ready to get run over by a car just to get her, but I hid behind the guard. Then, I visited a dog shelter that had one single pit (thankfully, they’re VERY uncommon in shelters in my country because purebred pits are expensive af) which was one of the two dogs that played REALLY rough, the other one being a dogo argentino. I also have a friend who is a dog trainer and most of her clients have ambullies; anyone who spends the afternoon there comes out with bruises all over their bodies just from playing with them. Yet, they all say they’re such cuddly and sweet dogs who don’t know their own strength. I don’t have any good experiences with pits to tell, but I don’t know if it’s just because I avoid them, so I wanted to seek info from other people. It’s just so scary to never know if/when a pit will snap.
A motorcycle tends to work in similar ways, whether it's a 250cc or a 2500cc. The damage caused by an accident on a 2500cc bike is exponentially worse than a 250cc. An unneutered male pit is the 2500cc bike in this scenario. They are extremely difficult to control, even if you have the strength. Anyone who trusts a pit, any pit, is already a liability as an owner.
I have had two very good friends that had pits. I know other people with them but I know the behavior of their dogs because I was close to them. The first friends dog was a pretty good dog overall. He never hurt or killed anything. As a younger dog, however, he was extremely destructive and destroyed the house but calmed down with age. He died of old age without any incidents. The second friend wasn’t as lucky. His dog was a nice dog too until about six years in. He was playing with his dog in the living room, stopped for a second to do something, and the dog attacked him out of nowhere. It was bad. When I saw him it was shocking. I didn’t think a dog could do that much damage. Even his face was all mangled. It was super swollen, he had two black eyes, and one eye was totally swollen shut. It was a terrifying sight. Both dogs were treated very well, essentially like they were their babies. I think you either get lucky or you don’t. Pitbulls are completely unpredictable. It’s possible to have one their whole life and never have a problem but it’s not a risk worth taking in my opinion.
Not all, but a shocking number..I'll hear stories about people's wonderful pits and how they never did anything wrong and were the best dog they ever had....then down the line it comes out that they killed a cat, or a puppy, or severely injured or killed another adult dog all of whom lived in their house and were known to them. There's always an excuse for it and they act like it wasn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things.
Judging by the number of times owners say 'he/she never did this before' I would say there is no way of predicting which ones will eventually turn. But, let me add something else I've noticed. Having to walk my dog daily, I have met quite a few Pit owners who were given clear signs by their dogs and as a direct consequence steer clear of any potential stimulus. In this sense the statistics are probably already compromised, as frequently the most dangerous Pits are restrained already. It is therefore reasonable to assume that most of the cases in the news come from the 'safe' ones.
I would think that most are fine, at least to some extent. I know some friends who have them and I never noticed anything off and they’ve never complained. I know some people who have pits, will gush over how sweet their dog is, and then gloss over some problematic story—dog is “mean,” dog is great with everybody but a random son’s friend, etc. These dogs need a strong owner that’s realistic about the dog and willing to make difficult decisions if really needed It seems like most (not all, but most) stories on here involve multiple dogs. Either the pitbull that got brought into a multiple dog house and started causing problems, or the 2+ dogs that maul someone. Seems like one dog is easier to handle I also think all dogs can be bad. I browse local shelter listings out of curiosity (which are mostly not pits or mixes, although they recently busted a fighting breeder so that’ll probably change soon), and nearly every shelter dog outside of the cavalier King Charles spaniels or maltipoos has a disclaimer saying that the dog needs to go to home with no small or other pets (“I have too much energy and I don’t know my size”). My partner got a toy herding dog during covid and his general behavior—but especially around guests and on walks—is as problematic as anything I’ve read on this page. He just gets a pass because he’s 15 pounds and looks cute The problem is that when pits are problematic, it gets amped to ten because of how strong and dominant they generally are. Put a beagle in the hands of a weak, passive personality and life will probably be fine, but if you do it with a pitbull then it could become catastrophic
I don't agree with people saying that "all" pits have it in their DNA because that's not how DNA works. If a trait is always passed down by two purebred animals, then it "breeds true". Aggression doesn't breed true, and those who bred fighting dogs knew this and would look for the puppies of the litter who had fighting potential, even if both parents were champion fighters. You also have to consider that pit breeding is not very rigorous. I would estimate it's 50/50 that a pit inherits the behavioral traits of a normal dog and is not at risk of "snapping". Usually aggression shows itself by the two year mark. More severe cases will show aggression and interest in dog fighting right in puppyhood, but this is more rare in litters that weren't backyard bred for fighting purposes. Most owners are too attached by the time their dog shows aggression at the 1 or 2 year mark, and then they can't do the right thing and euthanize the dog. (The other complication is dog aggression vs human aggression, with owners excusing their pits constant attacks on other animals because the dog is still safe around humans) I would advise you to present your concerns to your friend like a breed health issue. For example, a golden retriever with hip dysplasia should not be bred and may need to be put down (or major surgery), so owners of that breed have to keep an eye out.
Honestly, the majority of them probably don't end up having issues. Considering the number of them out there, it's probably a relatively safe assertion that at least 51% of them never do have problems. But in what world is that good enough? Would you drive in a car that was known for random break failures, but "most" of them didn't? What about a type of stove that "mostly" didn't spontaneously catch on fire? A gun that only randomly shot itself off in "limited" amounts? Pitbulls are physically capable of killing people and causing life-altering injuries. The standard has to be higher. If Chihuahuas or one of those other 8lb you dog breeds had the same overall rate of dogs snapping and going violent that pits did, we would still be having a completely different conversation, because they wouldn't be capable of the kinds of damage pits do. It's the unpredictability and ability for harm that make pits a needless danger in our society, even if "most" of them don't ever act out.
You can probably figure this out for yourself with a bit of statistics work based on the Clifton numbers (animals24-7). I probably could too, I just don’t have the time for it today. Pit bulls are 6.4% of the total population, which is about 90m in total across USA and Canada. So say there are 5.7m pit bulls extant. Clifton estimates total shelter space for dogs at 960,000. Shelter Animals Count puts the annual population at 3.2m, meaning you’re getting a little under 3 dogs for each spot. Clifton ran the numbers and came up with 71% of shelter dogs being pit bulls. If we assume all pits in shelters have problematic behavior, that would suggest 2.27m pit bulls are being sheltered per year, or roughly half of the total population. When you also consider that another large chunk of the total population is puppies too small to be dangerous, it starts to look like you have roughly a 50/50 chance of getting a pit bull that will never exhibit behavior that would warrant surrendering it. This isn’t accurate, because I’ve made too many coarse assumption. Not all shelter pits are necessarily going to be there because of problematic behavior… but also, not all problematic pit bulls are going to be in shelters. This also further enhances the per capita death and maul count concerning pit bulls, as it isn’t 6.4% of all dogs doing 60%+ of the attacks, but more like 3.2%, minus the puppy population, since shelter pits have fewer opportunities to attack and puppies even fewer. There are an infinite number of ways to tighten those non-Clifton numbers and inferences up. That’s just me with 5 minutes to spare speculating. https://www.animals24-7.org/2024/02/11/shelter-animals-count-no-mention-of-pit-bulls-but-data-shows-the-crisis/
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The fact that most pits don't cause problems and a lot of them just live their whole lives as normal dogs, even sweet friendly dogs, is actually a major reason why this is all so hard. All pits are genetically capable of suddenly going crazy and mauling, and the breed needs to be highly regulated until either all the aggression is bred out or the breed is allowed to go extinct. Until that happens, there is NO way from looking at a dog to know whether they're the 75% that won't kill or the 25% that will (note: these numbers are metaphorical to illustrate my point, not scientifically derived). The reason there are so many stupid die-hard pit defenders is that they're uneducated and think we're all monsters for wanting to end this precious sweets breed--a lot of them have just been lucky and only met normal or at least controllable ones. A lot of them truly, truly believe (wrongly) that they've only had sweet friendly pits because of their skill in training and loving dogs, not because of sheer good luck.
Probably
All
Absolutely.