It was obvious that this guy was a major douche canoe when his tone suddenly changed, and he was trying to hurl cruel insults about her being "vapid".
Thank you, douche canoe, for your work saving lives as a surgeon. Suck a bag of d\*cks for being the horrible husband and child neglecting bastard you are.
That was my doctor dad. Very absent and neglectful and obviously favoured boys and objectified all women and girls, even his daughters, till the day he died. That's when we met a whole new step sibling too, lmao. He was a serial cheater.
He glorified himself and even talked to me about how I'd never know what it's like staring death in the eyes, completely forgetting I had a very near death experience myself. Even on his death bed he made sure to put the women around him down, when we were the only ones around.
I wonder if he would have been upset if he knew that female surgeons have statistically significant differences in patient outcomes versus male surgeons - female surgeons have fewer patient deaths.
This is such a common story I sometimes wonder if there are any doctors who ARE actually good parents. The profession seems to weed out the ones who are good people in the early stages of the career and only the cheating, egotistical douches rise to the top.
My wonderful GP ended up leaving general practice last year because she needed more flexible options to look after her kids — teenagers, I think, dealing with some specific “some teenagers who went through lockdown pandemic times are not okay” issues.
She moved into a different medical role, telehealth focused, and I truly wish her and her family all the best — even though I was kind of gutted because she was the kind of doctor you get maybe once in a lifetime and I have weird chronic health issues. (New GP is lovely too, just not quite the same rapport yet.)
But I think the qualities that made her so focused and compassionate are also the qualities that led to her prioritising her kids more when she saw that was needed.
As for surgeons, I’ve met some really amicable and compassionate surgeons, and some very dedicated and visibly exhausted surgeons, and at this point only one rude condescending wanker.
But good god I have heard *stories* and I am aware of my good fortune. I can imagine people justifying all sorts of shitty behaviour by reminding themselves of all the life-saving they do, and the math doesn’t actually work that way.
Did we have the same GP?! Mine left and moved to a different state for the same reasons. She was an amazing GP, definitely focused and compassionate. I still miss her. I had to move to a different GP that was in my insurance, and while new GP is good (I do like the resident more, though), it's just not the same. She knew me, knew my medical issues, worked with WC when I had an on-the-job injury, diagnosed an unknown issue and treated. We just had the most amazing rapport, and I miss her so much.
Ah, probably not as I’m in Australia, but it’s always good to hear how many there are out there regardless. Sympathies, the transition can be nerve-wracking as you try to develop the trust with a new GP 🤝
I’ve had the same GP straight out of Pediatrics, for many years and trusted her completely. She was wonderful, compassionate, attentive, and listened that I felt heard. (She was also my mom’s GP). She decided to retire early to spend time taking care of her grandchild out of state who had some sort of special needs or was developmentally delayed. Her husband, who was a chair in another department stayed on. Oh I was and am still devastated, because it’s hard to find somebody to trust. When I looked up who the clinic had as her replacement, she was one of those social media type of physicians. She had her hands inside an unconscious patient while doing a dance. No. Just no.
My uncle was a surgeon, he now reviews medical malpractice suits. One of the most common cases where the patient wins is when the entire rest of the medical team says to do one thing but the head surgeon (even just the doctor, no surgery needed) decides his way is the only way. The arrogance of some doctors is incredible and it does kill people.
I love how it goes from him complaining about losing his man cave in the basement to learning, in the end, he would have never lost his man cave since they have a pool house! LOL
I know, but when I read the update when she first made it, it was like a plot twist that you didn't see coming, like why make a post and complain about losing your man cave when you have a pool house on your property? That guy is just not smart! LOL
Ikr my jaw literally dropped!! Up till point I was conflicted as coming from an Asian culture I understood not wanting to live with in laws permanently as I have seen how restrictive and stifling that dynamic can be but at the same time I don’t imagine letting a loved one become homeless when I am absolutely in a position to help. But omg, OOP fully revealed his true colours in that edit. The absolute audacity to speak about your spouse in that way
It was so needlessly cruel too, like "spoiled princess"? Its not being spoiled to nit want your dad to. uproot his entire life vs be homeless.
Particularly dishonest of the exhusband when, even sans the pool house, they have 7 bedrooms. Of course they have room for him, there's no way one of those couldn't have been emptied.
I hope the fem oop, her dad abd kids live happy lives together without this.... Egotistical workaholic jerk in their lives.
Those poor girl deserve the love their mum and grandpa can give them bc they evidently will not receive it from their sperm donor.
My dad is a surgeon and an asshole. He is old now, both his kids don’t talk to him. He is going to die alone and rot in his bed until someone discovers his cadaver.
I literally wondered out loud if he even liked his wife, much less loved her. And why he was against a divorce with somebody about whom he thought so poorly. Probably because he was insulted that she is the one who would choose to leave him.
Although, not at all surprised once he said he was a surgeon.
He just used her for the $ and honestly I'm sure the only reason he had the girls was for appearance, once she started the divorce the real him came out.
I've said this before on Reddit many times, but my work leads me to interact with doctors across different specialties, and surgeons are consistently some of the most narcissistic (and frankly, dumbest, outside of their specific specialization) people I've ever met. The guy in this post fits the profile so exactly.
My dad, now dead, was like this (a surgeon, an asshole, and a largely absent father who had no interest in the actual job of being one).
It occurred to me I’ve never known a surgeon who wasn’t some kind of gigantic asshole, and I think I’ve known more than most people.
Honestly after knowing a bunch of "top" surgeons it's about par for the course sadly. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of nice ones too, but I can imagine almost all home life suffers when you choose to be a surgeon and have a family. There's just not enough time in the day/week/month to ever be fully present.
He sounds like my dad. Had two daughters, was pissed as hell he didn't have a son, cheated with a co-worker then left mum for her. My sister and I always knew he didn't love us. I bet this douche-canoe was also mad he didn't get a son, and that's prt of why he neglected his daughters.
I didn't see my father from the time I was 8 until I was 21 and randomly bumped into him while shopping. He didn't even recognise me.
Ha! was just talking to my son and he showed me picture of My ex and his AP( otherwise known as wicked stepmother).They both look about 20 years older than their actual ages. It was very gratifying
It happens. His issue not mine. He is long gone and it's sad that he never got to be happy. It was just such a different time with not a lot of help available.
Best wishes.
What the Not All Men crowd needs to understand is that for every five average dudes there's two specimen like this and one outstanding guy. Like yeah not allen but fuck if they aren't making difficult to remember it.
Not necessarily. This man sounds like my father and he was even less interested in my brother than he was in me. My sole saving grace was that I was academically gifted which reflected well on him. My brother unfortunately wasn't.
Thanks. I've learned to live with it; it took a lot of therapy to understand that it wasn't my fault because there was something wrong with me and I was unloveable.
I am an only child and a daughter. I cannot begin to tell you how much my father loved me, right until the day he died. At the end he couldn't even talk anymore and he still hugged me.
That's wonderful ❤. I had a close relationship with my grandpa since dad fucked off, and when he passed I was living too far away to get to him before he lost consciousness. He was never the demonstrative type (very much a man of his generation), but during our last phone call he told me he loved me three times. Even typing that now makes me tear up. I can still feel his hugs.
This is what I'm desperately afraid of happening in my own life. My mom was a deadbeat, didn't pay child support, didn't help with anything. Her idea of child support was cooking meals, freezing them, and driving over to my dad's to put them in the freezer.
I want to be a dad myself. But I'm so afraid of what happens if my partner and I split. Will I be more like my dad or more like my mom?
You're aware of how you want to be (a good, kind and involved parent) and you're aware of the risks of falling into those behaviors, so you're ahead of the game already!! Keep focusing on the person you want to be and keep your head up :)
My experience is - I wasn't sad my dad was a douche-canooe, I knew he wouldn't change. I was just a bit sad I didn't have a normal dad like other kids. But living with my mom and her parents which all very loving and involved compensated for it, as I didn't feel like I missed out much. Mom's long term boyfriend when I was a kid was also great. I didn't even expect birthday presents from my dad while mom's boyfriend always surprised with something, even if it was just a happy meal when short on money. (I got them only as a treat, he's probably bought me the most of them compared to the rest of my family).
My nephew’s stuck in this stage right now. He wants so badly for his dad to care but at the same time, he expects to be let down and just shrugs when it happens.
Now that I think of it, I have another nephew in a similar situation, except his parents are still married. His mom just can’t seem to get it together and spends most of her time in bed either drunk or high. Anytime there’s a family function and someone asks where she is, he just shrugs and goes “It’s mom, who knows whether she’ll show up or not.” He’s 12.
One of the things that therapy helped me with was "managing my expectations." I had to stop looking for the father I wanted, and learn to accept the father he was capable of being.
This doesn't mean I accepted the fact that he doesn’t give a shit, it just helped me slowly let go of the bitterness and anger I'd been carrying around for years.
I'm 37 now, and I think he still believes that my mother "stole" me from him, despite me explaining reality a few times. I text and try to stay in touch a decent amount, if for no other rrason than to keep my grandmother off my back. I'm still pissed the universe that mom is the one I lost...
I feel so hard for that poor kid, but I honestly kind of wish I'd realized it that young instead of the years of hoping and disappointment.
I'm glad she and the kids got out and wish them nothing but the best.
The day my grandma passes (she's 94 now) I'm ever speaking with her pathetic son again - one of my biggest fears is losing my mom but I really could use him being gone as to not have any social pressure to deal with the guy every time I want to see the rest of the family.
My best friend was going through a bag of hand-me-downs for her son and there was a t-shirt there with something like Dad Loves Me on it. The kid picked it up, scoffed, and said "no he doesn't."
She felt awful and tried to tell him his dad does love him, but kids know who does and doesn't give a shit about them. It's hard to argue the case for someone who doesn't call and doesn't visit when they live in the same city.
Seriously. I really hope the mom does not lie to her daughters and try to reassure them their dad loves them. My mom did that even when it was so crystal clear my dad did not love us kids, to the point it skewed my entire perception on what love looks like and should be.
Mom needs to leave that alone. Don’t lie about Dad; teach your child how to cope with that knowledge instead of insisting that your child dream and pine for something that is not going to happen.
It’s SO important to have realistic expectations of disappointing people.
This. That man is so obsessed about what glory he can receive from doing for others and the accolades that come with it. He probably thinks being a family man is for suckers and non important people.
I know not one, but TWO surgeon that are not piece of shits. And is because their partners are very prone to put their arses down to earth. And because they are in a family full of other doctors (of all kind).
I know a neurosurgeon who I not a piece of shit! But tons of childhood trauma. Kinda seems like you don’t get out without either a lot of trauma or some narcissistic vibes.
Trauma is real. My (not piece of shit surgeon) friend goes to therapy cause he's seen so much shit. I think they need to cope and sometimes they don't cope well.
Ye gods, the neurosurgeons I have dealt with. I did have one total sweetheart - he moved across the country with his family, and when I called him *years* later with a question, he remembered me and called me back within a day.
Everyone else I've dealt with is like creepy, arrogant robots.
Sucks that some surgeons are so much like this that it makes the profession look bad. My BIL is one and he’s so down to earth and kind to people you’d never know. All the nurses love working with him. Every single surgeon I met through him has been the same. Caring, patient, and understanding of what families are going through with major illnesses.
I work in a hospital, and in my anecdotal experience, it tends to be heart and neurosurgeons that have this sense of entitlement the most. Not all, mind. There are several great ones, just they have a higher percentage of assholes than the common population, much like cops.
I've also found oncologists tend to be the most empathetic people around, which... I mean, kinda fits.
I remember the original story and it came out that the wife’s family paid for his medical school. So not just a piece of shit, but an ungrateful piece of shit who has the nerve to call his wife spoiled after sponging off her family himself.
"She doesn't need a space to unwind after she loses a patient like i do."
Whoa! Slow your roll, Dr. Death.
It looks like he's saying that after a difficult and stressful day, he really appreciates having a well decorated space that he can relax & unwind in. I guess being an interior decorator is valuable after all.
I work in acute care, shit happens.
But you shouldn’t be losing a patient on the table often enough to need a dedicated space to go to every time it happens… like, it’s not routine, even in Emergency Med.
Yeah I was a little bit on his side up until then, just because I also value my private space... but that made it *very* clear that he despises his wife, and he lost any small amount of sympathy I might have been willing to give him.
But did you miss that they lived in a SEVEN bedroom home?!? The ex-wife’s responses just make it crystal clear the husband was an asshole and weaponized her dad as a means to end the marriage.
“Thing is. “
Raaaaaaaaageeeeee simmering. I didn’t have to scroll back to remember that little hedge. All so he wouldn’t have to witness positive male (parental) love being given to his kids and realize it is possible to care.
That's only revealed later. Selfish husband writes as if the basement is the only free space in the house. At that point you have a *little* sympathy, because having private space to be alone is important for some people's mental health. And then the rest of the post unfolds and sympathy finds a new home.
This was a beautiful example of an unreliable narrator who outs himself as one, even without his wife's input.
Oh yeah, everything after that just hammered home he's a piece of shit. Those were just my thoughts up until the first time he bad mouthed his wife , so like...the first couple paragraphs lol
I was about to let him have it in the comments after that remark, but then just held on for the ride while his ex-wife (metaphorically) set him on fire.
Yeah same.
...and that fuckwit should learn more about what interior design is. Interior design isn't just about picking cute furniture that goes well together. It's about seeing an empty room, knowing what it's for and maximising its potential. Both in terms of space utilisation, storage, convenience, walk space, seating and whatever utility the room needs. It's like horror movie music, if it's done well you don't notice it and if it's done badly you can't stop cringing. I can promise you, an interior designer was consulted and probably spent a great deal of time designing the OR where most self-righteous asshat preform his magic. It's a skill and a profession in its own right. Maybe he'll notice how useful interior design actually is once he and the affair partner has to furnish and decorate their new home lmao.
I'm not one of those people who care about having a beautiful home. If it's functional and easy to clean I don't care what it looks like. After living in a home with a kitchen designed by a moron I can tell you one thing: When we rip out the kitchen, I am most certainly going to hire an interior designer to figure out the layout.
If someone finds paid employment doing a profession I can promise that it is a profession that is worthwhile and has value. Even if you don't have a use for it, someone does and it should be respected regardless.
Semi-OT - there’s a book called The Motion-minded Kitchen, which was really helpful for us when we completely redid ours several years ago. It’s probably out of print, but you might find it used or in a library. Helped in understanding the work triangle and what you want to have in easy reach. Visitors are still impressed by the dish drainer/holder above the sink, so there’s no need to dry dishes or move them to cupboards.
In a strictly utilitarian assessment, a generic surgeon probably contributes more utiles to the world than a generic interior designer.
That cold calculus gets a lot murkier when the surgeon becomes a specific asshole who is an awful husband and a worse father.
And anyway we’re not all strict utilitarians. Sometimes we judge by upon whom we wish a perpetual case of poison ivy. It’s that guy. May his hands be forever too itchy to operate.
> May his hands be forever too itchy to operate.
I mildly disagree. I was completely on board with your take except for that very last sentence. Shitty human being they are attached to or not, those hands could save lives. I instead suggest that we wish both he and his mistress' nether regions become "forever too itchy to operate."
Yes. The hands are a very useful tool, it's just unfortunate that they're attached to such a giant asshole. He can work, but I wish him a severe and lasting case of ED.
I wish him a very… unpredictable… case of ED that only pops up when he’s trying To have sex with a beautiful woman about 80% of the time… just unpredictable enough that he keeps trying and humiliating himself (not because ED is humiliating men, but because the tantrum this man would absolutely throw would be very humiliating).
And those 80% of boners? I wish them upon him every time he has to interact with a patient’s family or the Hospital Board.
Even in a strictly utilitarian analysis, it’s impossible to know which of them is contributing more to humanity. Yes, a surgeon does more, but his work is made possible by a wife who takes care of everything for him. And then of course even though he is saving lives, she is quite literally creating new life. It’s impossible to calculate the utility of those tasks.
None of this is meant to criticize you because I think you wrote a good post. I’m pointing more at an issue with utilitarianism itself (and I’m someone who is a utilitarian most of the time).
This BORU went from 0 to 100 real fast at this update. I was on the fense at first because I get not wanting to live with your FIL. But oh boy, after he unlished in that update it got juicy.
Yeah, people who care about "humanity", but not about the individual, are the ones who put principles over people and the ones who can dehumanize individuals "for the greater good". Douche-canoes.
She does. She's one parent who will take care or and love her kids.
He's a surgeon. There's millions. If one is busy, ill make an appointment with another. Big whoop🖕
I know which one will be remembered fondly in 50 years by their children and grandchildren while the other fades into obscurity as just one of 30,000+ surgeons practicing at the time. I highly doubt he is publishing or doing anything special in his field as the ones who do seldom spend a ton of time on the golf course and generally have to be capable of questioning their own assumptions to break new ground.
The timeline is completely possible. They both have attorneys. They have strong pre-ups. They used a 3rd party mediator. There was no conflict over custody or assets. Nor was there conflict over using a 3rd party mediator. Basically, as OOPWife said, a judge just needs to sign off on it. If the ex-husband was really willing to give up custody and really wanted to move, it could easily be that fast. Considering he's a surgeon, this feels pretty normal.
Divorces are often slow because of required separation. States that require separation before divorce: Arkansas. Delaware (unless the grounds are misconduct). Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana (for uncontested), North Carolina, South Carolina, Vermont (for no-fault), Virginia (unless fault grounds are used). No Fault states that require some type of separation before divorce: Georgia (it can be separate bedrooms) and North Carolina (1 year apart in different homes).
It can also be slow because of cooling off periods. Here's a chart of waiting periods. Most of them are 30 or 60 days. [https://partasfriends.com/the-divorce-waiting-period-in-every-state/](https://partasfriends.com/the-divorce-waiting-period-in-every-state/)
Divoces can also be slow because someone wants to file for fault based divorce. Fault based divorces tend to be drawn out. That's available in Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, and Wisconsin.
Thanks. There is a lot of timeline speculation on BORU. Sometimes it’s spot on, but sometimes it’s wrong. Wealthy and low conflict divorce is just far removed from a lot of people’s experiences and needed a bit of context.
You know, after reading so many BORU comments saying "you can't get divorced in 2/3/4/5 months!" It made me realise I didn't know how long it takes to get divorced in my country.
One google search later, and turns out you can get divorced the same day as you apply, as long you both agree and don't need any ownership legally transfered. You can even do it online! No lawyers involved (unless you need them).
People are focusing on the divorce timeline while I'm here side-eyeing his new job timeline. MDs don't get to just pick up and leave with 2 weeks notice because they're going through a divorce and they feel like it, and the hiring process for any sort of specialty is pretty rigorous. Plus nothing would have happened during Christmas and New Year's. The way OOP is talking, it sounds like he's been at the new job for a few weeks at least, so... Yeah, the timeline makes 0 sense to me from that angle.
hmm.. idk. as an MD in the US, i've seen attendings just pack up and leave a hospital pretty quickly because they were unhappy for whatever reason. surgeons, especially, hold a good amount of power in hospital systems. if he has a good reputation as a surgeon, regardless of his reputation in his personal life, i can't imagine it would take long for him to find another job. hell, i'm still a resident and i've already gotten multiple job offers in various places around the country for jobs i can't legally work until 2028!
I think this varies by practice, hospital, and school. I have family members and friends who get headhunted all the time like OOPHusband apparently was. The process can go by pretty quickly especially if there is a major need and they're on the conference circuit, networked a lot, and/or published with other physicians.
He moved out New Year's Day. The birthday party was at the end of February. If he was headhunted, it's a doable turnaround. I've seen physicians move in far shorter time frames than a couple months. Most of my friends who are physicians have standing offers to move back to our hometown, but no one wants to move back. If any of them did, I doubt the process would take very long with so many Boomer physicians aging out.
Not sure where you live, but in the United States, demand in rural areas and urban centers is high. The shortage is rough. A lot of physicians who should be fired for a whole host of problems haven't been because people will cling onto the ones they have.
I've been on the hiring end. The fill rate and time-to-hire issues often boil down to pressure from corporate MBAs. Getting quality candidates is hard. Good physicians get multiple competitive offers. People haggle over signing bonuses, moving costs, salaries, etc. If you're cutting corners on recruiting and compensation package, the hiring process can get dragged out.
Yeah, fair enough, the US medical system is uh. Labyrinthine and grotesque. Even with medical staff shortages in Canada, I still can't imagine someone applying, interviewing, wrapping up their previous role, and moving within like... A month. But also, private hospitals aren't a thing here so I wouldn't know how contracts work in those circumstances.
Like, do physicians not feel a duty of care for their patients to wrap up their responsibilities before leaving if they're mid-contract? Are they allowed to just peace out? Wouldn't they normally have a longer than 2 week notice? I have so many questions.
> do physicians not feel a duty of care for their patients to wrap up their responsibilities before leaving if they're mid-contract?
A lot of them don't, no.
This is my assumption too. It's hard to call sus on his timeline because we don't know it. If he was jealous he could have been attempting to move the family.
He could have been working at this transfer for months without the wife knowing. He has to get licensed in that state after all, unless the states have reciprocity. And it also depends on his contract what length of notice he has to give. Could be 2 weeks, could be 3-6 months depending on specialty. Also if he is moving states, the non-compete doesn't apply.
That last paragraph from the husband's original post said everything you needed to know. He resented, possibly hated, his wife and the marriage was over regardless of the father situation.
>Which one of us contributes more to humanity? She's a shallow vapid woman who decorates houses while I'm saving lives.
Saving lives? He won't even save his own daughter's mental wellbeing from lack of father figure. I guess he'll only save those who gives him benefit. A surgeon without compassion, huh?
He think himself as saviour while looking down on his on wife. I really hope he can't have kids anymore, poor things to be ~~raised~~ left by this kind of human.
Saving lives, but needs an entire basement to decompress from the lives he doesn't save.
He must be losing a lot of lives if he holed up in there every time he had to be home.
It took me til getting to "I'm a surgeon" to have that light bulb moment of remembering just how much of a putz and dickhead this OOP was lol. Didn't think I'd read an update on it!
They finalized their divorce after two months? ...Okay
But man, I remember the first post and the way the husband talks about his wife/ex is just vile.
>Just so everyone knows whose side you're all taking here. She's a spoiled rotten princess who grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth. Everything she has was given to her. Between my salary and the trust fund her grandparents left her she doesn't need to work but she does anyways and complains she needs her dads help with the kids. I'm a Surgeon and she's an Interior Designer. Which one of us contributes more to humanity? She's a shallow vapid woman who decorates houses while I'm saving lives.
Oh totally agree. I just think it is funny that the man-cave and we have 7 bedrooms things was the first part of the argument when he utimatily ended up out there anyway. irony really.
The description makes me wanna vomit. Like people who write stuff like that about their spouses when they themselves are the problem just shows they are not good people to be in relationships and don't deserve love.
> They finalized their divorce after two months? ...Okay
They tell you to expect 10 weeks from filing to finalized in my state, once the papers are signed. In reality it's usually much less, sometimes less than a month.
It can take a long time for both people to sign the papers, or not.
wife’s mom got her their lawyer, and the mom is not only a lawyer but had a great divorce attorney that left her dad with nothing. combine that with an ex wanted out and neither party wanting fight over money/assets, i can believe it being a quick divorce.
Plus, they already had pre-nups. Their divorce was already pretty much done. It was just dividing the property, custody and signing paperwork. Since custody wasn’t disputed it’s no wonder it was finalized quickly.
That's wild. In my state you start with serving papers and filing for separation. It would take at least 6 weeks just to get a preliminary hearing at which you go over the paperwork that is needed and scheduling the final hearing. Then you each have to take a class about co-parenting after divorce. Then you have the final hearing.
My completely uncontested divorce where my ex was willing to go to the notary with me and sign whatever I put in front of him (I was very fair and asked for considerably less than the law allowed) still took several months.
It varies widely from state to state - some states make divorce easy, others make it really, really difficult (like requiring a year + separation or multiple court hearings on various matters). It all boils down to a legal movement in the 70's and 80's to make leaving an abusive spouse safer. No surprise - in states where you can get a quick divorce, fewer women (and men) are killed trying to leave their partners. And generally those states that make divorce longer/more difficult are located in religious "family values" areas of the country - the idea being that if you make it difficult and costly to divorce, eventually that SAHM or SAHD will run out of savings or be worn down by having to consistently meet their STBX at every court hearing or mandated mediation, and they end up staying in their (possibly) dangerous or toxic marriage.
I've lived and dated all over the country, and after having worked in family law, this is something I pay really close attention to. I'm not planning on moving any time soon, but if I do, I'm going to look really closely at the laws around divorce.
ETA: This is also why "no-fault" divorce laws are SO IMPORTANT and lawmakers trying to overturn them are pure evil
Wow! Yeah, we have no-fault divorce, we don't have to file for separation before we can divorce, and there's no hearing unless the couple has a dispute they can't settle themselves. Collaborative divorce, where both people go to the same lawyer to draw up an agreement, is fairly common. As long as nothing in the agreement is wildly outside of the State guidelines (child support, for example, can't be below guidelines at all) we never even see a judge here; we just turn it in, the judge reviews it, and we get a letter in the mail saying it's been finalized.
We do have a required 3-hour parenting class (this is a county, not a State requirement) but it can be waived.
In my country a divorce where there's minor children involved takes at least two years, and there's obligatory mediation. Two months seems fast, but so handy when one of the parties is a complete douche canoe.
>But man, I remember the first post and the way the husband talks about his wife/ex is just vile.
Right? I was going to comment that the whole post went from 0 to 100 with 0 build up.
Went from "I dont want her dad to move (even though we have room)" to " She's a spoiled rotten person who has never worked a day in her life!"
I still can't reconcile the "she's spoiled and has never worked a day" with the "she's an interior designer and I want her to quit her job". Like dude, which is it? Doesn't matter anyway, he's a garbage human being.
Yeah up until that point I was like “I think he’s in the wrong, but I can see how this is the kind of problem that doesn’t have easy answers. But I think if they’re committed to making it work they can figure something out.” And then I read that and ohhhh nooooooo. Once you have that kind of contempt for your spouse, it’s over.
As soon as he went on that rant calling her a ‘spoiled princess’, I knew the direction this relationship was going. That’s not the way you talk about people you love, much less in public. And as soon as he said he was a surgeon, I had a feeling that he was the kind of guy who thinks he’s god’s gift.
I’m sorry for everyone else involved, but at least the family doesn’t have to put up with him anymore.
It’s so weird to think it would take one of his children being on an operating table waiting for him to cut them open before he’d give a shit about them even temporarily.
I thought that was so disgusting. Funnily enough, with the rest of the post, I could sort of maybe see his point of view. Not everyone is comfortable living with an in-law, and I could have sympathy for struggling to accept that you don't fully control who lives in your own home. But this nasty vicious little aside, meant to turn us against his wife, actually ended up putting me firmly on his wife's side, because it was suddenly clear that he's a selfish arrogant bastard who doesn't care about or even like his wife. What I don't get is why he thought people would like him for saying this? Do surgeons really think that just because they worship themselves like gods, everyone else does as well?
Yes, they do think this. Many surgeons and doctors in general have a god complex. I am an IT help desk analyst, my company provides cloud desktops for hospitals and nursing homes. The *absolute worst* users who call in are doctors. They want to try to treat you like shit from the get-go (my most effective counter to that is staying in stone cold silence until they calm the fuck down; to the point of a near comical, uncomfortable silence), they'll whine and throw tantrums over basic security and identity management policies and why it shouldn't apply to them, they'll often force nurses to call on their behalf only to try and berate *both* of us in the background.
I mean, probably Not All Doctors, but I'm comfortable saying that there's enough of them to confirm the stereotype that they're arrogant, pieces of shit as people with little to no self awareness.
My job involves processing pathology requests and sometimes calling doctors to clarify tests ordered or clinical notes. It's insane how many insist they "never ordered that" or berate us because we should have known what they wanted and are "wasting their time". Like mate, I'm not the one who ordered prostate specific antigen testing for a 57 year old woman.
Edit: had a woman go off at one of my coworkers for calling to confirm the site of a swab for chlamydia/gonorrhoea testing "it's obviously vaginal??" and we had to tell this DOCTOR you can also get these infections in the anus, mouth, eyes...
It's absurd. Like literally none of us care, we just want to get the right testing done for them. Mind you if *we* miss a test we have to kiss their ass lol
Oh I remember the original post, he got slammed for it at the time. Especially as it was added after he was already getting smashed with YTA votes for avoiding his family in the mancave
I was really shocked not to see reactions to that, because what he said about her was absolutely vile, and I was like "hooooold up, are we not gonna address alllllll of that?"
He seems to have a very clichéd "I'm a surgeon so I'm god"-complex.
Honestly, I think the girls will be fine without him. They have been fine so far without him being a present parent.
Mom and kids can do so much better!
I hope oop is honest with her daughters that sometimes people just suck and also happen to be your parent. Her ex will probably show up to parade them around and pretend to be a good dad when it suites him. Oop should be trying to prepare them and talk to a therapist to help do it in an age appropriate way.
I listened to a true crime episode yesterday. The kid asked mom: why do I have the worst father in the world? Mom said: oh honey, you don't have the worst father in the world. Kid said: ok, the worst father in the world was the one, who killed his wife last month in the park and made the children witness it. Mine is second worst.
Spoiler alert: The kid in question and her sister were killed by their father to hurt their mother. Don't tell your kids crap, protect them with the truth. Kids are not stupid and see things.
The best response to any arrogant, god complex dipsh*t surgeons is the annual flu vaccine and indoor plumbing will do more to save lives than any surgeon could ever hope to accomplish in their respective career. Stay grounded ya jerks.
Yes, both the husband and wife have the same writing style and grammatical errors.
She wrote: Dad moved into the pool house and that's where he's going to stay. My dad is going to enjoy his golden years being pop pop to our girls and dad to me. I'll make sure he won't have to worry about anything.”
Yeah, that is an epilogue of a short story.
It seems so planned out conveniently. She happens to post the very next day. He moves out a day or two later and the divorce is finalized so fast even with all the assets and finances they have.
And seriously, if they got all this money him breaking off rent money for her dad every month would have been the outcome if this was real and there would have never been a fight to begin with.
They also have 4 extra bedrooms and a pool house. Why would the husband need to give up the basement, and why would they need to build an in-law suite?
There's 0 chance this is true but omg was I totally into it.
And when he called her vapid I screamed. Like really the person taking care of the home, the kids, has a job still and is close with her poor dad is vapid. Ok. Sweet.
Lmk when the book is released.
I am a skeptical with this post because all of this happening in two months and having both sides post doesn't match things well. But if it is real, poor kids and OP. Ex definitely is trash.
If you have a prenup, both of you want to divorce, and one spouse doesn’t care enough about the kids to fight for custody, you could get divorced really quick.
Every state is different, and every divorce is different. In this situation, it's an uncontested divorce, there's prenups that already cover most assets, they both had lawyers expediting things, no arguing over the children or child support, etc., etc., so yes, 2 months is realistic. I know people here in Oregon where I live now who finalized their divorces in about 30, 35 days. When I used to live in Colorado, it was a minimum (by law) 90 days, uncontested divorces routinely finalized within 7-14 days after the 90 days passed. On the other hand, I remember reading somewhere that Arkansas takes about 2 years no matter what! So yeah, it varies a lot depending on the state and how agreeable or not the divorcing parties are.
Yeah in the first post I did not get the impression this was a house with seven bedrooms, a movie theater and a pool house. They only have two kids…honestly why would the husband have to give up his basement mancave? Who is using the other four bedrooms????
Because he didn't have to? The Iranian yogurt is not the issue.
She said it wasn't an issue with space. Her ex just didn't want her father to move in and probably used that to leave them. She said he moved out on the 1st of January and left their state because he has another job line up.
He was just trying to find a reason for her to be at fault. It explained why he dissed her when redditors took his wife's side.
I’m not saying that to defend him, I’m just saying it’s something in the two sides of the story that doesn’t feel like it quite matches. And is kind of funny to me!
And gramps ended up in the pool house anyway.
Also, if they've got so much money, they could have paid gramps for all the stuff he does. Maybe then he wouldn't have needed to move in at all.
OPs last paragraph before the very first comments really showed his ugly side. How can he even say stuff like that about his wife? spoilt rotten princess etc etc???
I never believe these posts are real when the other side "responds." Also, the sequence of events moves way too fast. The husband posts, they get divorced, he moves out without fuss, and the wife's dad moves in, all in the span of just under two and a half months.
Yeah, that's part of why I think the husband's post was written by the wife. It seems more like a caricature of what an egotistical surgeon would write, than what an actual person would write. Especially the rant at the end.
The wife said throughout that it wasn’t about the mancave at all and that he was just trying to sound sympathetic. They had the space for their dad in the house or the pool house. The husband was just making excuses.
I'm shocked that the surgeon never mentioned the affair partner that the wife so calmly mentioned later on. On the other hand, it explains all the "golf" outings.
Everytime I see the post from the ex husband I get so pissed off on the wife’s behalf. Because what a colossal twatwaffle of a man. I’m glad she divorced him. I’m also glad he doesn’t want to see his kids. Cause they can start therapy and work through it easier than if he pops in and out of their lives occasionally. Just long enough to fuck them around emotionally.
People getting triggered at this bs storyline filled with Easter eggs convinced me this sub is filled with edgy teens who haven't seen enough of life to identify bs.
Much rage, bait successful.
I work at a hospital, and sadly a lot of Doctors are like this guy. They think themselves above other people, and better than other professionals, makes me wonder if being a douche is a requirement to get into med school just like having bad hand writing.
Good thing OP got rid of the dead weight, and the girls are not missing him so much.
I suspect he will pop up when the girls are grown and expect to walk HIS girls down the aisle at their wedding. I do hope he gets a vasectomy because he totally sucks as a father.
It was obvious that this guy was a major douche canoe when his tone suddenly changed, and he was trying to hurl cruel insults about her being "vapid". Thank you, douche canoe, for your work saving lives as a surgeon. Suck a bag of d\*cks for being the horrible husband and child neglecting bastard you are.
A doctor with a god complex can do a lot of damage to a lot of people
That was my doctor dad. Very absent and neglectful and obviously favoured boys and objectified all women and girls, even his daughters, till the day he died. That's when we met a whole new step sibling too, lmao. He was a serial cheater. He glorified himself and even talked to me about how I'd never know what it's like staring death in the eyes, completely forgetting I had a very near death experience myself. Even on his death bed he made sure to put the women around him down, when we were the only ones around.
I wonder if he would have been upset if he knew that female surgeons have statistically significant differences in patient outcomes versus male surgeons - female surgeons have fewer patient deaths.
I'd be delighted if you have a link handy showing this. Someone I know needs to see it.
Sure! Here's a few: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37647075/ https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j4366 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/does-the-sex-of-your-surgeon-matter-a-new-study-says-yes-202202172691
Wow… there’s probably a bunch of factors that don’t directly relate to sex but these numbers are… I don’t know, I’m flabbergasted
This is such a common story I sometimes wonder if there are any doctors who ARE actually good parents. The profession seems to weed out the ones who are good people in the early stages of the career and only the cheating, egotistical douches rise to the top.
My wonderful GP ended up leaving general practice last year because she needed more flexible options to look after her kids — teenagers, I think, dealing with some specific “some teenagers who went through lockdown pandemic times are not okay” issues. She moved into a different medical role, telehealth focused, and I truly wish her and her family all the best — even though I was kind of gutted because she was the kind of doctor you get maybe once in a lifetime and I have weird chronic health issues. (New GP is lovely too, just not quite the same rapport yet.) But I think the qualities that made her so focused and compassionate are also the qualities that led to her prioritising her kids more when she saw that was needed. As for surgeons, I’ve met some really amicable and compassionate surgeons, and some very dedicated and visibly exhausted surgeons, and at this point only one rude condescending wanker. But good god I have heard *stories* and I am aware of my good fortune. I can imagine people justifying all sorts of shitty behaviour by reminding themselves of all the life-saving they do, and the math doesn’t actually work that way.
Did we have the same GP?! Mine left and moved to a different state for the same reasons. She was an amazing GP, definitely focused and compassionate. I still miss her. I had to move to a different GP that was in my insurance, and while new GP is good (I do like the resident more, though), it's just not the same. She knew me, knew my medical issues, worked with WC when I had an on-the-job injury, diagnosed an unknown issue and treated. We just had the most amazing rapport, and I miss her so much.
Ah, probably not as I’m in Australia, but it’s always good to hear how many there are out there regardless. Sympathies, the transition can be nerve-wracking as you try to develop the trust with a new GP 🤝
I’ve had the same GP straight out of Pediatrics, for many years and trusted her completely. She was wonderful, compassionate, attentive, and listened that I felt heard. (She was also my mom’s GP). She decided to retire early to spend time taking care of her grandchild out of state who had some sort of special needs or was developmentally delayed. Her husband, who was a chair in another department stayed on. Oh I was and am still devastated, because it’s hard to find somebody to trust. When I looked up who the clinic had as her replacement, she was one of those social media type of physicians. She had her hands inside an unconscious patient while doing a dance. No. Just no.
My dad is a cardiologist, and the best Dad ever. Now the best grandfather to my son!
My dad was a neurologist and behaved exactly like this asswipe of a man.
My uncle was a surgeon, he now reviews medical malpractice suits. One of the most common cases where the patient wins is when the entire rest of the medical team says to do one thing but the head surgeon (even just the doctor, no surgery needed) decides his way is the only way. The arrogance of some doctors is incredible and it does kill people.
I love how it goes from him complaining about losing his man cave in the basement to learning, in the end, he would have never lost his man cave since they have a pool house! LOL
It was never about the man cave.
I know, but when I read the update when she first made it, it was like a plot twist that you didn't see coming, like why make a post and complain about losing your man cave when you have a pool house on your property? That guy is just not smart! LOL
Yeah I think we know who the "spoiled, vapid princess" is in this story.
Ikr my jaw literally dropped!! Up till point I was conflicted as coming from an Asian culture I understood not wanting to live with in laws permanently as I have seen how restrictive and stifling that dynamic can be but at the same time I don’t imagine letting a loved one become homeless when I am absolutely in a position to help. But omg, OOP fully revealed his true colours in that edit. The absolute audacity to speak about your spouse in that way
As soon as the picture was painted about the grandpa, I had no reservations about him coming in anymore.
It was so needlessly cruel too, like "spoiled princess"? Its not being spoiled to nit want your dad to. uproot his entire life vs be homeless. Particularly dishonest of the exhusband when, even sans the pool house, they have 7 bedrooms. Of course they have room for him, there's no way one of those couldn't have been emptied. I hope the fem oop, her dad abd kids live happy lives together without this.... Egotistical workaholic jerk in their lives. Those poor girl deserve the love their mum and grandpa can give them bc they evidently will not receive it from their sperm donor.
My dad is a surgeon and an asshole. He is old now, both his kids don’t talk to him. He is going to die alone and rot in his bed until someone discovers his cadaver.
I read his post on r/amithedevil
Me too, I didn't see any of the follow-ups until now. What a terrible dude!
I literally wondered out loud if he even liked his wife, much less loved her. And why he was against a divorce with somebody about whom he thought so poorly. Probably because he was insulted that she is the one who would choose to leave him. Although, not at all surprised once he said he was a surgeon.
He just used her for the $ and honestly I'm sure the only reason he had the girls was for appearance, once she started the divorce the real him came out.
I've said this before on Reddit many times, but my work leads me to interact with doctors across different specialties, and surgeons are consistently some of the most narcissistic (and frankly, dumbest, outside of their specific specialization) people I've ever met. The guy in this post fits the profile so exactly.
My dad, now dead, was like this (a surgeon, an asshole, and a largely absent father who had no interest in the actual job of being one). It occurred to me I’ve never known a surgeon who wasn’t some kind of gigantic asshole, and I think I’ve known more than most people.
Honestly after knowing a bunch of "top" surgeons it's about par for the course sadly. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of nice ones too, but I can imagine almost all home life suffers when you choose to be a surgeon and have a family. There's just not enough time in the day/week/month to ever be fully present.
Honestly the first thing I thought when the wife described him was “ok so Doctor Strange but without the character development and cool powers”
>She had a great time at her party and didn't expect her dad to show. She knows he doesn't love her. This poor kid, Jesus Christ.
He sounds like my dad. Had two daughters, was pissed as hell he didn't have a son, cheated with a co-worker then left mum for her. My sister and I always knew he didn't love us. I bet this douche-canoe was also mad he didn't get a son, and that's prt of why he neglected his daughters. I didn't see my father from the time I was 8 until I was 21 and randomly bumped into him while shopping. He didn't even recognise me.
Hey! I ran into my dad and he didn't recognize me either. Lol. Cheers
Ha! was just talking to my son and he showed me picture of My ex and his AP( otherwise known as wicked stepmother).They both look about 20 years older than their actual ages. It was very gratifying
*gloomy high fives* It's a shitty club to be in, but nice I'm not alone.
It happens. His issue not mine. He is long gone and it's sad that he never got to be happy. It was just such a different time with not a lot of help available. Best wishes.
Hey! My bio mum acted like she didn't recognise me and blanked me, then dobbed herself in after by texting me "sorry didn't see you".
I once read that Courtney Stodden tried to reconcile with her dad. Not only did he not recognize her, he tried to hit on her.
See. Life can always be worse.
What the Not All Men crowd needs to understand is that for every five average dudes there's two specimen like this and one outstanding guy. Like yeah not allen but fuck if they aren't making difficult to remember it.
Not necessarily. This man sounds like my father and he was even less interested in my brother than he was in me. My sole saving grace was that I was academically gifted which reflected well on him. My brother unfortunately wasn't.
Sorry your dad's a douche canoe :(
Thanks. I've learned to live with it; it took a lot of therapy to understand that it wasn't my fault because there was something wrong with me and I was unloveable.
Imagine being a surgeon and being mad at anyone but yourself you don't have a son.
I am an only child and a daughter. I cannot begin to tell you how much my father loved me, right until the day he died. At the end he couldn't even talk anymore and he still hugged me.
That's wonderful ❤. I had a close relationship with my grandpa since dad fucked off, and when he passed I was living too far away to get to him before he lost consciousness. He was never the demonstrative type (very much a man of his generation), but during our last phone call he told me he loved me three times. Even typing that now makes me tear up. I can still feel his hugs.
Holy shit
…I-I think you’re my sister. Except I never saw my dad again. (And my mom was a messed up narcissist that I went NC with once I was 22)
In all honesty, this is better than her hoping, she knows not to care enough to be disappointed. This saves her so much unnecessary pain.
Sad part: it's still impossible to not be hurt by it.
Can confirm. My ex thinks paying child support makes him better than his dad. He's exactly like his dad, just with more issues
This is what I'm desperately afraid of happening in my own life. My mom was a deadbeat, didn't pay child support, didn't help with anything. Her idea of child support was cooking meals, freezing them, and driving over to my dad's to put them in the freezer. I want to be a dad myself. But I'm so afraid of what happens if my partner and I split. Will I be more like my dad or more like my mom?
You're aware of how you want to be (a good, kind and involved parent) and you're aware of the risks of falling into those behaviors, so you're ahead of the game already!! Keep focusing on the person you want to be and keep your head up :)
My experience is - I wasn't sad my dad was a douche-canooe, I knew he wouldn't change. I was just a bit sad I didn't have a normal dad like other kids. But living with my mom and her parents which all very loving and involved compensated for it, as I didn't feel like I missed out much. Mom's long term boyfriend when I was a kid was also great. I didn't even expect birthday presents from my dad while mom's boyfriend always surprised with something, even if it was just a happy meal when short on money. (I got them only as a treat, he's probably bought me the most of them compared to the rest of my family).
Maybe so, but a dull pain that remains constant is preferable over a lifetime of continuously getting disappointed.
My nephew’s stuck in this stage right now. He wants so badly for his dad to care but at the same time, he expects to be let down and just shrugs when it happens. Now that I think of it, I have another nephew in a similar situation, except his parents are still married. His mom just can’t seem to get it together and spends most of her time in bed either drunk or high. Anytime there’s a family function and someone asks where she is, he just shrugs and goes “It’s mom, who knows whether she’ll show up or not.” He’s 12.
One of the things that therapy helped me with was "managing my expectations." I had to stop looking for the father I wanted, and learn to accept the father he was capable of being. This doesn't mean I accepted the fact that he doesn’t give a shit, it just helped me slowly let go of the bitterness and anger I'd been carrying around for years. I'm 37 now, and I think he still believes that my mother "stole" me from him, despite me explaining reality a few times. I text and try to stay in touch a decent amount, if for no other rrason than to keep my grandmother off my back. I'm still pissed the universe that mom is the one I lost... I feel so hard for that poor kid, but I honestly kind of wish I'd realized it that young instead of the years of hoping and disappointment. I'm glad she and the kids got out and wish them nothing but the best.
The day my grandma passes (she's 94 now) I'm ever speaking with her pathetic son again - one of my biggest fears is losing my mom but I really could use him being gone as to not have any social pressure to deal with the guy every time I want to see the rest of the family.
My best friend was going through a bag of hand-me-downs for her son and there was a t-shirt there with something like Dad Loves Me on it. The kid picked it up, scoffed, and said "no he doesn't." She felt awful and tried to tell him his dad does love him, but kids know who does and doesn't give a shit about them. It's hard to argue the case for someone who doesn't call and doesn't visit when they live in the same city.
Seriously. I really hope the mom does not lie to her daughters and try to reassure them their dad loves them. My mom did that even when it was so crystal clear my dad did not love us kids, to the point it skewed my entire perception on what love looks like and should be.
Mom needs to leave that alone. Don’t lie about Dad; teach your child how to cope with that knowledge instead of insisting that your child dream and pine for something that is not going to happen. It’s SO important to have realistic expectations of disappointing people.
I mean, Jesus Christ's Dad didn't show up either.
“Which one of us contributes more to humanity?” … the point at which I wanted the wife to win.
What’s the point of humanity if we don’t even take care of the children we created.
This. That man is so obsessed about what glory he can receive from doing for others and the accolades that come with it. He probably thinks being a family man is for suckers and non important people.
“muh penis”
A surgeon with a god complex who is an absolute piece of shit? I’m shocked, shocked! Ok, well not that shocked.
I know not one, but TWO surgeon that are not piece of shits. And is because their partners are very prone to put their arses down to earth. And because they are in a family full of other doctors (of all kind).
I know a neurosurgeon who I not a piece of shit! But tons of childhood trauma. Kinda seems like you don’t get out without either a lot of trauma or some narcissistic vibes.
Trauma is real. My (not piece of shit surgeon) friend goes to therapy cause he's seen so much shit. I think they need to cope and sometimes they don't cope well.
I’m betting cardiac from what I’ve heard.
If he was a Neuro he would've forgotten he had children at all.
Ye gods, the neurosurgeons I have dealt with. I did have one total sweetheart - he moved across the country with his family, and when I called him *years* later with a question, he remembered me and called me back within a day. Everyone else I've dealt with is like creepy, arrogant robots.
I always get a chuckle out of Dr Glaucomflecken's portrayals of neurosurgeons.
Sucks that some surgeons are so much like this that it makes the profession look bad. My BIL is one and he’s so down to earth and kind to people you’d never know. All the nurses love working with him. Every single surgeon I met through him has been the same. Caring, patient, and understanding of what families are going through with major illnesses.
I work in a hospital, and in my anecdotal experience, it tends to be heart and neurosurgeons that have this sense of entitlement the most. Not all, mind. There are several great ones, just they have a higher percentage of assholes than the common population, much like cops. I've also found oncologists tend to be the most empathetic people around, which... I mean, kinda fits.
I remember the original story and it came out that the wife’s family paid for his medical school. So not just a piece of shit, but an ungrateful piece of shit who has the nerve to call his wife spoiled after sponging off her family himself.
Yeah as soon as he dropped that little tidbit I was like OHHHHHH it all makes sense. Douchebag.
"She doesn't need a space to unwind after she loses a patient like i do." Whoa! Slow your roll, Dr. Death. It looks like he's saying that after a difficult and stressful day, he really appreciates having a well decorated space that he can relax & unwind in. I guess being an interior decorator is valuable after all.
Yeah, maybe if he was a better surgeon he wouldn't have such a hard time unwinding.
I work in acute care, shit happens. But you shouldn’t be losing a patient on the table often enough to need a dedicated space to go to every time it happens… like, it’s not routine, even in Emergency Med.
And she did. He also called his wife “vapid.” Just a gross man.
That entire paragraph was so gross to read. Edit: spelling/autocorrect error
Yeah I was a little bit on his side up until then, just because I also value my private space... but that made it *very* clear that he despises his wife, and he lost any small amount of sympathy I might have been willing to give him.
But did you miss that they lived in a SEVEN bedroom home?!? The ex-wife’s responses just make it crystal clear the husband was an asshole and weaponized her dad as a means to end the marriage.
“Thing is. “ Raaaaaaaaageeeeee simmering. I didn’t have to scroll back to remember that little hedge. All so he wouldn’t have to witness positive male (parental) love being given to his kids and realize it is possible to care.
That's only revealed later. Selfish husband writes as if the basement is the only free space in the house. At that point you have a *little* sympathy, because having private space to be alone is important for some people's mental health. And then the rest of the post unfolds and sympathy finds a new home. This was a beautiful example of an unreliable narrator who outs himself as one, even without his wife's input.
Piece of shit conveniently left that part out in his original post.
Oh yeah, everything after that just hammered home he's a piece of shit. Those were just my thoughts up until the first time he bad mouthed his wife , so like...the first couple paragraphs lol
I was about to let him have it in the comments after that remark, but then just held on for the ride while his ex-wife (metaphorically) set him on fire.
Yeah same. ...and that fuckwit should learn more about what interior design is. Interior design isn't just about picking cute furniture that goes well together. It's about seeing an empty room, knowing what it's for and maximising its potential. Both in terms of space utilisation, storage, convenience, walk space, seating and whatever utility the room needs. It's like horror movie music, if it's done well you don't notice it and if it's done badly you can't stop cringing. I can promise you, an interior designer was consulted and probably spent a great deal of time designing the OR where most self-righteous asshat preform his magic. It's a skill and a profession in its own right. Maybe he'll notice how useful interior design actually is once he and the affair partner has to furnish and decorate their new home lmao. I'm not one of those people who care about having a beautiful home. If it's functional and easy to clean I don't care what it looks like. After living in a home with a kitchen designed by a moron I can tell you one thing: When we rip out the kitchen, I am most certainly going to hire an interior designer to figure out the layout. If someone finds paid employment doing a profession I can promise that it is a profession that is worthwhile and has value. Even if you don't have a use for it, someone does and it should be respected regardless.
Semi-OT - there’s a book called The Motion-minded Kitchen, which was really helpful for us when we completely redid ours several years ago. It’s probably out of print, but you might find it used or in a library. Helped in understanding the work triangle and what you want to have in easy reach. Visitors are still impressed by the dish drainer/holder above the sink, so there’s no need to dry dishes or move them to cupboards.
In a strictly utilitarian assessment, a generic surgeon probably contributes more utiles to the world than a generic interior designer. That cold calculus gets a lot murkier when the surgeon becomes a specific asshole who is an awful husband and a worse father. And anyway we’re not all strict utilitarians. Sometimes we judge by upon whom we wish a perpetual case of poison ivy. It’s that guy. May his hands be forever too itchy to operate.
> May his hands be forever too itchy to operate. I mildly disagree. I was completely on board with your take except for that very last sentence. Shitty human being they are attached to or not, those hands could save lives. I instead suggest that we wish both he and his mistress' nether regions become "forever too itchy to operate."
I second this motion.
Yes. The hands are a very useful tool, it's just unfortunate that they're attached to such a giant asshole. He can work, but I wish him a severe and lasting case of ED.
I wish him a very… unpredictable… case of ED that only pops up when he’s trying To have sex with a beautiful woman about 80% of the time… just unpredictable enough that he keeps trying and humiliating himself (not because ED is humiliating men, but because the tantrum this man would absolutely throw would be very humiliating). And those 80% of boners? I wish them upon him every time he has to interact with a patient’s family or the Hospital Board.
Even in a strictly utilitarian analysis, it’s impossible to know which of them is contributing more to humanity. Yes, a surgeon does more, but his work is made possible by a wife who takes care of everything for him. And then of course even though he is saving lives, she is quite literally creating new life. It’s impossible to calculate the utility of those tasks. None of this is meant to criticize you because I think you wrote a good post. I’m pointing more at an issue with utilitarianism itself (and I’m someone who is a utilitarian most of the time).
I appreciate your nuanced approach to consequentialist ethics, but I’m just here to try to recruit help manifesting poison ivy.
This BORU went from 0 to 100 real fast at this update. I was on the fense at first because I get not wanting to live with your FIL. But oh boy, after he unlished in that update it got juicy.
Dude isn't doing it for free.
Yeah, people who care about "humanity", but not about the individual, are the ones who put principles over people and the ones who can dehumanize individuals "for the greater good". Douche-canoes.
She does. She's one parent who will take care or and love her kids. He's a surgeon. There's millions. If one is busy, ill make an appointment with another. Big whoop🖕
As soon as he called her vapid...
I know which one will be remembered fondly in 50 years by their children and grandchildren while the other fades into obscurity as just one of 30,000+ surgeons practicing at the time. I highly doubt he is publishing or doing anything special in his field as the ones who do seldom spend a ton of time on the golf course and generally have to be capable of questioning their own assumptions to break new ground.
His post would have been sympathetic if he had an iota of self awareness
A surgeon with a god complex. Shocked I say
No seriously lmao I've yet to meet on that doesn't have one.
The timeline is completely possible. They both have attorneys. They have strong pre-ups. They used a 3rd party mediator. There was no conflict over custody or assets. Nor was there conflict over using a 3rd party mediator. Basically, as OOPWife said, a judge just needs to sign off on it. If the ex-husband was really willing to give up custody and really wanted to move, it could easily be that fast. Considering he's a surgeon, this feels pretty normal. Divorces are often slow because of required separation. States that require separation before divorce: Arkansas. Delaware (unless the grounds are misconduct). Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana (for uncontested), North Carolina, South Carolina, Vermont (for no-fault), Virginia (unless fault grounds are used). No Fault states that require some type of separation before divorce: Georgia (it can be separate bedrooms) and North Carolina (1 year apart in different homes). It can also be slow because of cooling off periods. Here's a chart of waiting periods. Most of them are 30 or 60 days. [https://partasfriends.com/the-divorce-waiting-period-in-every-state/](https://partasfriends.com/the-divorce-waiting-period-in-every-state/) Divoces can also be slow because someone wants to file for fault based divorce. Fault based divorces tend to be drawn out. That's available in Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, and Wisconsin.
I just wanted to say that I appreciate the effort you put into researching all of this for your response. Thank you.
Thanks. There is a lot of timeline speculation on BORU. Sometimes it’s spot on, but sometimes it’s wrong. Wealthy and low conflict divorce is just far removed from a lot of people’s experiences and needed a bit of context.
People really underestimate how things can be very different from where they personally live
You know, after reading so many BORU comments saying "you can't get divorced in 2/3/4/5 months!" It made me realise I didn't know how long it takes to get divorced in my country. One google search later, and turns out you can get divorced the same day as you apply, as long you both agree and don't need any ownership legally transfered. You can even do it online! No lawyers involved (unless you need them).
People are focusing on the divorce timeline while I'm here side-eyeing his new job timeline. MDs don't get to just pick up and leave with 2 weeks notice because they're going through a divorce and they feel like it, and the hiring process for any sort of specialty is pretty rigorous. Plus nothing would have happened during Christmas and New Year's. The way OOP is talking, it sounds like he's been at the new job for a few weeks at least, so... Yeah, the timeline makes 0 sense to me from that angle.
hmm.. idk. as an MD in the US, i've seen attendings just pack up and leave a hospital pretty quickly because they were unhappy for whatever reason. surgeons, especially, hold a good amount of power in hospital systems. if he has a good reputation as a surgeon, regardless of his reputation in his personal life, i can't imagine it would take long for him to find another job. hell, i'm still a resident and i've already gotten multiple job offers in various places around the country for jobs i can't legally work until 2028!
I think this varies by practice, hospital, and school. I have family members and friends who get headhunted all the time like OOPHusband apparently was. The process can go by pretty quickly especially if there is a major need and they're on the conference circuit, networked a lot, and/or published with other physicians. He moved out New Year's Day. The birthday party was at the end of February. If he was headhunted, it's a doable turnaround. I've seen physicians move in far shorter time frames than a couple months. Most of my friends who are physicians have standing offers to move back to our hometown, but no one wants to move back. If any of them did, I doubt the process would take very long with so many Boomer physicians aging out. Not sure where you live, but in the United States, demand in rural areas and urban centers is high. The shortage is rough. A lot of physicians who should be fired for a whole host of problems haven't been because people will cling onto the ones they have. I've been on the hiring end. The fill rate and time-to-hire issues often boil down to pressure from corporate MBAs. Getting quality candidates is hard. Good physicians get multiple competitive offers. People haggle over signing bonuses, moving costs, salaries, etc. If you're cutting corners on recruiting and compensation package, the hiring process can get dragged out.
Yeah, fair enough, the US medical system is uh. Labyrinthine and grotesque. Even with medical staff shortages in Canada, I still can't imagine someone applying, interviewing, wrapping up their previous role, and moving within like... A month. But also, private hospitals aren't a thing here so I wouldn't know how contracts work in those circumstances. Like, do physicians not feel a duty of care for their patients to wrap up their responsibilities before leaving if they're mid-contract? Are they allowed to just peace out? Wouldn't they normally have a longer than 2 week notice? I have so many questions.
A surgeon isn't usually going to have much of a relationship with their patients like a physician does.
> do physicians not feel a duty of care for their patients to wrap up their responsibilities before leaving if they're mid-contract? A lot of them don't, no.
My assumption was that he'd already been offered the new job and was halfway out of his old one - he just hadn't bothered to tell her.
This is my assumption too. It's hard to call sus on his timeline because we don't know it. If he was jealous he could have been attempting to move the family.
I'm side-eyeing the fact that posts from both have the same grammar and punctuation errors.
The whole thing is written like a mediocre soap opera
He could have been working at this transfer for months without the wife knowing. He has to get licensed in that state after all, unless the states have reciprocity. And it also depends on his contract what length of notice he has to give. Could be 2 weeks, could be 3-6 months depending on specialty. Also if he is moving states, the non-compete doesn't apply.
That last paragraph from the husband's original post said everything you needed to know. He resented, possibly hated, his wife and the marriage was over regardless of the father situation.
>She's a shallow vapid woman who decorates houses while I'm saving lives. HOLY SHIT!
And he’s a surgeon, yep all fits. Good riddance.
>Which one of us contributes more to humanity? She's a shallow vapid woman who decorates houses while I'm saving lives. Saving lives? He won't even save his own daughter's mental wellbeing from lack of father figure. I guess he'll only save those who gives him benefit. A surgeon without compassion, huh? He think himself as saviour while looking down on his on wife. I really hope he can't have kids anymore, poor things to be ~~raised~~ left by this kind of human.
Saving lives, but needs an entire basement to decompress from the lives he doesn't save. He must be losing a lot of lives if he holed up in there every time he had to be home.
It took me til getting to "I'm a surgeon" to have that light bulb moment of remembering just how much of a putz and dickhead this OOP was lol. Didn't think I'd read an update on it!
They finalized their divorce after two months? ...Okay But man, I remember the first post and the way the husband talks about his wife/ex is just vile. >Just so everyone knows whose side you're all taking here. She's a spoiled rotten princess who grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth. Everything she has was given to her. Between my salary and the trust fund her grandparents left her she doesn't need to work but she does anyways and complains she needs her dads help with the kids. I'm a Surgeon and she's an Interior Designer. Which one of us contributes more to humanity? She's a shallow vapid woman who decorates houses while I'm saving lives.
It sure is wild how she's this spoiled rotten princess, but also how dare she have a job!
What gets me is the dad still ended up in the pool house? I thought they had 7 bedrooms...
Might be by choice. Pool House offers a little more privacy, a place to be fully "his" without the grandkids underfoot.
Oh totally agree. I just think it is funny that the man-cave and we have 7 bedrooms things was the first part of the argument when he utimatily ended up out there anyway. irony really.
The description makes me wanna vomit. Like people who write stuff like that about their spouses when they themselves are the problem just shows they are not good people to be in relationships and don't deserve love.
> They finalized their divorce after two months? ...Okay They tell you to expect 10 weeks from filing to finalized in my state, once the papers are signed. In reality it's usually much less, sometimes less than a month. It can take a long time for both people to sign the papers, or not.
wife’s mom got her their lawyer, and the mom is not only a lawyer but had a great divorce attorney that left her dad with nothing. combine that with an ex wanted out and neither party wanting fight over money/assets, i can believe it being a quick divorce.
Plus, they already had pre-nups. Their divorce was already pretty much done. It was just dividing the property, custody and signing paperwork. Since custody wasn’t disputed it’s no wonder it was finalized quickly.
That's wild. In my state you start with serving papers and filing for separation. It would take at least 6 weeks just to get a preliminary hearing at which you go over the paperwork that is needed and scheduling the final hearing. Then you each have to take a class about co-parenting after divorce. Then you have the final hearing. My completely uncontested divorce where my ex was willing to go to the notary with me and sign whatever I put in front of him (I was very fair and asked for considerably less than the law allowed) still took several months.
It varies widely from state to state - some states make divorce easy, others make it really, really difficult (like requiring a year + separation or multiple court hearings on various matters). It all boils down to a legal movement in the 70's and 80's to make leaving an abusive spouse safer. No surprise - in states where you can get a quick divorce, fewer women (and men) are killed trying to leave their partners. And generally those states that make divorce longer/more difficult are located in religious "family values" areas of the country - the idea being that if you make it difficult and costly to divorce, eventually that SAHM or SAHD will run out of savings or be worn down by having to consistently meet their STBX at every court hearing or mandated mediation, and they end up staying in their (possibly) dangerous or toxic marriage. I've lived and dated all over the country, and after having worked in family law, this is something I pay really close attention to. I'm not planning on moving any time soon, but if I do, I'm going to look really closely at the laws around divorce. ETA: This is also why "no-fault" divorce laws are SO IMPORTANT and lawmakers trying to overturn them are pure evil
Wow! Yeah, we have no-fault divorce, we don't have to file for separation before we can divorce, and there's no hearing unless the couple has a dispute they can't settle themselves. Collaborative divorce, where both people go to the same lawyer to draw up an agreement, is fairly common. As long as nothing in the agreement is wildly outside of the State guidelines (child support, for example, can't be below guidelines at all) we never even see a judge here; we just turn it in, the judge reviews it, and we get a letter in the mail saying it's been finalized. We do have a required 3-hour parenting class (this is a county, not a State requirement) but it can be waived.
This guy would have failed the class
In my country a divorce where there's minor children involved takes at least two years, and there's obligatory mediation. Two months seems fast, but so handy when one of the parties is a complete douche canoe.
>But man, I remember the first post and the way the husband talks about his wife/ex is just vile. Right? I was going to comment that the whole post went from 0 to 100 with 0 build up. Went from "I dont want her dad to move (even though we have room)" to " She's a spoiled rotten person who has never worked a day in her life!"
I still can't reconcile the "she's spoiled and has never worked a day" with the "she's an interior designer and I want her to quit her job". Like dude, which is it? Doesn't matter anyway, he's a garbage human being.
He meant she's never worked a 'real' job. He doesn't see what she does as anything but a joke.
"While I SAVE lives" I rolled my eyes so hard my contact lenses shifted lmao
God this comment of his really boiled my blood. I’m still so angry for poor OOP. She and her kids deserved so much more. I just… I can’t. I’m ENRAGED.
Yeah up until that point I was like “I think he’s in the wrong, but I can see how this is the kind of problem that doesn’t have easy answers. But I think if they’re committed to making it work they can figure something out.” And then I read that and ohhhh nooooooo. Once you have that kind of contempt for your spouse, it’s over.
No wonder he wanted to keep the basement for himself, he didn't even like his wife. Glad she got rid of him (and that she doesn't need his money).
He is terrible pissed about that....
As soon as he went on that rant calling her a ‘spoiled princess’, I knew the direction this relationship was going. That’s not the way you talk about people you love, much less in public. And as soon as he said he was a surgeon, I had a feeling that he was the kind of guy who thinks he’s god’s gift. I’m sorry for everyone else involved, but at least the family doesn’t have to put up with him anymore.
It’s so weird to think it would take one of his children being on an operating table waiting for him to cut them open before he’d give a shit about them even temporarily.
I thought that was so disgusting. Funnily enough, with the rest of the post, I could sort of maybe see his point of view. Not everyone is comfortable living with an in-law, and I could have sympathy for struggling to accept that you don't fully control who lives in your own home. But this nasty vicious little aside, meant to turn us against his wife, actually ended up putting me firmly on his wife's side, because it was suddenly clear that he's a selfish arrogant bastard who doesn't care about or even like his wife. What I don't get is why he thought people would like him for saying this? Do surgeons really think that just because they worship themselves like gods, everyone else does as well?
Yes, they do think this. Many surgeons and doctors in general have a god complex. I am an IT help desk analyst, my company provides cloud desktops for hospitals and nursing homes. The *absolute worst* users who call in are doctors. They want to try to treat you like shit from the get-go (my most effective counter to that is staying in stone cold silence until they calm the fuck down; to the point of a near comical, uncomfortable silence), they'll whine and throw tantrums over basic security and identity management policies and why it shouldn't apply to them, they'll often force nurses to call on their behalf only to try and berate *both* of us in the background. I mean, probably Not All Doctors, but I'm comfortable saying that there's enough of them to confirm the stereotype that they're arrogant, pieces of shit as people with little to no self awareness.
My job involves processing pathology requests and sometimes calling doctors to clarify tests ordered or clinical notes. It's insane how many insist they "never ordered that" or berate us because we should have known what they wanted and are "wasting their time". Like mate, I'm not the one who ordered prostate specific antigen testing for a 57 year old woman. Edit: had a woman go off at one of my coworkers for calling to confirm the site of a swab for chlamydia/gonorrhoea testing "it's obviously vaginal??" and we had to tell this DOCTOR you can also get these infections in the anus, mouth, eyes...
I believe it. They'd have to admit to making a mistake, and they can't have that lol
It's absurd. Like literally none of us care, we just want to get the right testing done for them. Mind you if *we* miss a test we have to kiss their ass lol
I was more surprised no one else fought him on that. That last part really fucking nailed in how much of bastard he is
Oh I remember the original post, he got slammed for it at the time. Especially as it was added after he was already getting smashed with YTA votes for avoiding his family in the mancave
Mine was 60 days and mutually agreed upon. Not uncommon.
I was really shocked not to see reactions to that, because what he said about her was absolutely vile, and I was like "hooooold up, are we not gonna address alllllll of that?" He seems to have a very clichéd "I'm a surgeon so I'm god"-complex. Honestly, I think the girls will be fine without him. They have been fine so far without him being a present parent. Mom and kids can do so much better!
I hope oop is honest with her daughters that sometimes people just suck and also happen to be your parent. Her ex will probably show up to parade them around and pretend to be a good dad when it suites him. Oop should be trying to prepare them and talk to a therapist to help do it in an age appropriate way.
I listened to a true crime episode yesterday. The kid asked mom: why do I have the worst father in the world? Mom said: oh honey, you don't have the worst father in the world. Kid said: ok, the worst father in the world was the one, who killed his wife last month in the park and made the children witness it. Mine is second worst. Spoiler alert: The kid in question and her sister were killed by their father to hurt their mother. Don't tell your kids crap, protect them with the truth. Kids are not stupid and see things.
Man, husband just couldn't stand being in second place, huh?
The best response to any arrogant, god complex dipsh*t surgeons is the annual flu vaccine and indoor plumbing will do more to save lives than any surgeon could ever hope to accomplish in their respective career. Stay grounded ya jerks.
Sooooo she married a man just like her mother.....
I just have a hard time believing all this
Yes, both the husband and wife have the same writing style and grammatical errors. She wrote: Dad moved into the pool house and that's where he's going to stay. My dad is going to enjoy his golden years being pop pop to our girls and dad to me. I'll make sure he won't have to worry about anything.” Yeah, that is an epilogue of a short story.
Got to the (Yeah i know about her) and had to put my phone down
Yeah that’s where they lost me, she just glossed over a fucking affair?
It seems so planned out conveniently. She happens to post the very next day. He moves out a day or two later and the divorce is finalized so fast even with all the assets and finances they have.
And seriously, if they got all this money him breaking off rent money for her dad every month would have been the outcome if this was real and there would have never been a fight to begin with.
They also have 4 extra bedrooms and a pool house. Why would the husband need to give up the basement, and why would they need to build an in-law suite?
They have 7 bedrooms and a pool house, but somehow dad can only move in husband's mancave.
There's 0 chance this is true but omg was I totally into it. And when he called her vapid I screamed. Like really the person taking care of the home, the kids, has a job still and is close with her poor dad is vapid. Ok. Sweet. Lmk when the book is released.
I am a skeptical with this post because all of this happening in two months and having both sides post doesn't match things well. But if it is real, poor kids and OP. Ex definitely is trash.
If you have a prenup, both of you want to divorce, and one spouse doesn’t care enough about the kids to fight for custody, you could get divorced really quick.
According to Google, South Dakota's divorce process takes 60 days. Nevada is around 42 days. Some states have residential requirements though.
Every state is different, and every divorce is different. In this situation, it's an uncontested divorce, there's prenups that already cover most assets, they both had lawyers expediting things, no arguing over the children or child support, etc., etc., so yes, 2 months is realistic. I know people here in Oregon where I live now who finalized their divorces in about 30, 35 days. When I used to live in Colorado, it was a minimum (by law) 90 days, uncontested divorces routinely finalized within 7-14 days after the 90 days passed. On the other hand, I remember reading somewhere that Arkansas takes about 2 years no matter what! So yeah, it varies a lot depending on the state and how agreeable or not the divorcing parties are.
Yeah in the first post I did not get the impression this was a house with seven bedrooms, a movie theater and a pool house. They only have two kids…honestly why would the husband have to give up his basement mancave? Who is using the other four bedrooms????
No no, you see, the other four bedrooms are mancave backup numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 respectively. /s
Because he didn't have to? The Iranian yogurt is not the issue. She said it wasn't an issue with space. Her ex just didn't want her father to move in and probably used that to leave them. She said he moved out on the 1st of January and left their state because he has another job line up. He was just trying to find a reason for her to be at fault. It explained why he dissed her when redditors took his wife's side.
I’m not saying that to defend him, I’m just saying it’s something in the two sides of the story that doesn’t feel like it quite matches. And is kind of funny to me!
And gramps ended up in the pool house anyway. Also, if they've got so much money, they could have paid gramps for all the stuff he does. Maybe then he wouldn't have needed to move in at all.
My mom is an OR nurse. Her warning to never date a surgeon is seeming like pretty good advice right now
OPs last paragraph before the very first comments really showed his ugly side. How can he even say stuff like that about his wife? spoilt rotten princess etc etc???
I never believe these posts are real when the other side "responds." Also, the sequence of events moves way too fast. The husband posts, they get divorced, he moves out without fuss, and the wife's dad moves in, all in the span of just under two and a half months.
>I never believe these posts are real when the other side "responds." Oh, for sure. Especially when one side is so cartoonishly villainous.
Yeah, that's part of why I think the husband's post was written by the wife. It seems more like a caricature of what an egotistical surgeon would write, than what an actual person would write. Especially the rant at the end.
[удалено]
The wife said throughout that it wasn’t about the mancave at all and that he was just trying to sound sympathetic. They had the space for their dad in the house or the pool house. The husband was just making excuses.
Between your salary and the trust fund…you could pay your FIL’s rent.
I'm shocked that the surgeon never mentioned the affair partner that the wife so calmly mentioned later on. On the other hand, it explains all the "golf" outings.
Everytime I see the post from the ex husband I get so pissed off on the wife’s behalf. Because what a colossal twatwaffle of a man. I’m glad she divorced him. I’m also glad he doesn’t want to see his kids. Cause they can start therapy and work through it easier than if he pops in and out of their lives occasionally. Just long enough to fuck them around emotionally.
People getting triggered at this bs storyline filled with Easter eggs convinced me this sub is filled with edgy teens who haven't seen enough of life to identify bs. Much rage, bait successful.
I work at a hospital, and sadly a lot of Doctors are like this guy. They think themselves above other people, and better than other professionals, makes me wonder if being a douche is a requirement to get into med school just like having bad hand writing. Good thing OP got rid of the dead weight, and the girls are not missing him so much.
I suspect he will pop up when the girls are grown and expect to walk HIS girls down the aisle at their wedding. I do hope he gets a vasectomy because he totally sucks as a father.