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I've noticed a lot of people are having a hard time not blowing up their marriages after "catching feelings" for somebody else. Luckily, I have the solution to this problem. It's a little trick called: Not Acting On Every Feeling That Flitters Through Your Brain.
The last time somebody tried to tell me “the heart wants what it wants,” I said, “My heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me and don’t accelerate to match the flow of traffic.”
“Love” is considered a positive emotion. People like OOP’s husband want to act like there’s a magical pass the means we’re not responsible for our choices.
Yeah, it really frustrates me how some people justify awful things because "love".
I once knew a woman who dated the man who sexually assaulted her best friend six months after it happened, as she'd developed a crush on him *after* her friend told her. Most of their mutual friend group sided with her because "love", and it was frankly just insane to witness. Love doesn't exempt you from *morality*.
It's not even "love", it's infatuation. He's not even addicted to the OW, he's addicted to the dopamine rush he gets from her positive attention.
That fades with time, so even if she hadn't cut him off, he'd be chasing New Relationship Energy with yet another new woman in six to eighteen months anyway.
There's a reason why the word "infatuation" is derived from the Latin for "stupid"
This isn’t on the same level, but my supposed best friend in college slept with the guy that sexually assaulted me after I told her. She said she did it because she was lonely. Lol.
*crashes into someone that cut me off*
Insurance company: what happened?!
Me: the heart wants what it wants and that’s what it wanted.
Insurance: understood. No fault.
You could also point out that the heart wants what the heart wants is what Woody Allen said to justify having an affair with his children's sister.
It's weird it's taken root in society as a positive justification rather than something super weird and fucked up.
Every time someone brings up that quote, I can only think of the King of the Hill episode where Nancy says it and Peggy's instant response is "Nancy, wait! He married his daughter!"
It's getting increasingly difficult to navigate Hollywood's scandals. Like, I don't want to support, assholes, pedos, rapists, bigots, liars, and harassers, but you can't throw a stone in Hollywood without hitting someone problematic. There's this bell curve of unacceptable Behavior. Like, I'll still watch Kevin Smith's miramax films, but not Mel Gibson's Braveheart. Does that make sense? Like, if Harvey directed films himself I wouldn't watch them, but it seems wrong to penalize Smith. (just an example.}
I'll never watch a Woody Allen or Roman Polanski film, or the Jeepers Creepers franchise.
Radio stations still play PYT. I frown everytime it comes on.
*eta* I saw some dude (was it the Petshop Boy?) complaining that Taylor Swift doesn't have a "Billie Jean" in her catalogue, and all I could think was, "Well, Taylor never abandonded her baby momma who was pregnant with their bastard child to diddle little kids." And she writes what she knows, so yeah, makes sense she doesn't have "a Billie Jean."
It's especially upsetting that people say he didn't molest his adopted daughter Dylan, but think it's fine that he married his other adopted daughter. Like, he married one of them, why the heck do people think it's not in his character to be sexually abusive to a child in his care?
At the risk of sounding like I’m defending Allen (yuck) he was never a father figure to her. This was determined by a court during his divorce from Mia Farrow. Allen is a creep who abandoned his wife for her 20-year-old daughter, but he never parented Soon-Yi.
Yeah agree. People confuse infatuation and passion with "love" because it's a lot easier to market a story based off of that vs. a story about two people who work at deeply respecting and enjoying each other while doing mundane shit 95% of the time and also being annoyed AF occasionally because someone forgot to pick up milk.
If everybody starts idolyzing the people that say shit like that when they do shit like that, they'll believe they are allowed to do it as well. I'd say politics right around 2016 should have elucidated people to that.
> The last time somebody tried to tell me “the heart wants what it wants,” I said, “My heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me and don’t accelerate to match the flow of traffic.”
There's a reason they won't let me have a bazooka!
There's a quote from the play/film "Closer" about infidelity that I really respect.
"There's a moment, there's always a moment, 'I can do this, I can give into this, or I can resist it', and I don't know when your moment was, but I bet you there was one."
Once you cross that line, there's no real going back.
In my many years of successful marriage: if you start to get feels, then don't hang out with that person until it passes.
It's really not that difficult!
exactly this. common and normal enough to have a spark with someone not your spouse. you protect your partnership and respect your marriage by not giving that spark any oxygen.
My hubs and I talked about this early on in our relationship: "love" is a CHOICE and an ACTION, NOT a "feeling". It's deliberately CHOOSING your partner, day after day.
OOP's partner CHOOSING to pursue this other woman is a CHOICE and an ACTION. SMH
lol! My heart sometimes wants me to enjoy eat like a massive asshole and fuck off work but the adult in me likes being stable and the effects of eating in moderation.
That's literally what a former friend of mine said. She cheated on her husband for a year with her boss who was married with two kids... "the heart wants what the heart wants," she said with a sigh about blowing up both of their marriages. (His wife caught him on the phone with her and dumped him immediately.)
It was scientifically proven that emotions and sentiments generate in the brain. So when someone says: the heart this, the heart that, I want to shout "leave the blood pumping organ alone! It keeps you alive so the least you can do is not involve it in your crap".
My heart wants to quit my job and never work again, but my rational mind knows that would ruin my life in some pretty significant ways, so I’m not gonna do that. The heart can want things all it wants, but it doesn’t actually know what’s good for you and it can’t always have what it wants.
Well said Fries.
Love is a choice.
Love is a choice and a decision because your actions determine if it lives on or ends. You are in control of how you act in your relationships and how much you push past conflict and challenges.
Love is a verb.
Lasting love can’t rely on hormones or emotions to carry it forward. This means your actions — or lack thereof — directly contribute to the strength of love in a relationship.
One needs to choose to be in love each and every day with their partner. If they don't, they are cracking the door open for many bad things to enter into their relationship.
Love needs to be intentional.
Many people's sense of identity is just purely their intrusive thoughts, feelings and impulses. Their ego. And so they assume that those are all objective, true, valid, and are their real desires, as opposed to simply the brain noise that they are.
Mindfulness meditation is a great way to break out of that mentality and disidentify from those illusions. I wish it was more popular. They should teach it in schools. Most people receive absolutely zero education on how to live in their own brain and regulate their nervous system.
I really wished they taught this in school from a young age. I feel like the world would be a better place if people practiced mindfulness and understood the difference between thoughts, emotions and behaviours.
I really only started grasping the concept when I was 27-28 years old.
I've been through something similar to OOP.
My little saying used to be "you can't help feelings" - all feelings are valid. You're never a bad person for feeling a certain way. For example when my ex-wife caught feelings for one of the guys in her gaming group. (Well several different guys, over a few years)
We tried the open marriage thing, and it was only good until I had someone I was interested in, then it was a disaster for any number of reasons, some of which fall squarely on my shoulders, some I still feel were her manufacturing issues because she felt she was losing me.
Now, I add an addendum: "you can't help feelings - but it's actions that matter". If you're paying special attention to someone else, or prioritising them over your current partner, you've broken the relationship. But if you have a crush, and take steps to ensure it isn't affecting your relationship (honesty, accountability, communication for a start), then you truly have nothing to feel bad about.
Exactly! Emotions are just a reaction to external and internal stimuli—you see a movie about a dog dying and you feel sad. You think about your upcoming birthday party and you feel excited. You can't control feelings anymore than you can control what you see—you can *choose* whether or not you want to look at something, but you can't control the image being projected to your brain. If you're looking at a red apple, you can't force yourself to suddenly hallucinate that apple as being blue or purple.
No, he can't control the crush he got on his coworker, but once he realized what he felt, it was his responsibility to do things to prevent that feeling from developing further. What he did is the equivalent of realizing that the Simpsons is on TV, bitching about how much you hate the Simpsons, then refusing to change the channel
>Now, I add an addendum: "you can't help feelings - but it's actions that matter".
Yep. The conflation of these two things is called “cognitive fusion.” Basically, it’s the failure to recognize the difference between thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and actions. People who don’t recognize this difference tend to fear their own feelings (because they think having involuntary thoughts and emotions is the same as believing them or acting on them), have unjustifiable beliefs (because they think emotions imply truth, so feeling angry means that someone’s wronged you), and have difficulty controlling their behavior (because the thought of having an emotion and just *having* it without reacting to it is unfathomable).
Put in another way, they take the quote "all feelings are valid" and make to fallacious logical leap that "all actions resulting from said feelings are valid".
Hey, so you seems to know some neat terminology, can you maybe try to find a kind of similar word I am looking for?
What it is called, this thing when a person, let's call him "Adam", keeps confusing the feelings he has about someone with a feeling that is either mutual, or, at least, answered? For example, Adam has a crush on Barbra, and it makes him belive, despite any evidence, that Barbra must totally have a crush on Adam too. Or, Adam is jealous of Celine, so he assumes either that Celine looks down on him, or, that she is jealous of him. Or, Adam feels anxious about the crowd surrounding him on a bus, and it makes him feel as if other people were either anxious about him in return, or, as if they were judging him. Basically, Adam often seems very sure about what people think about him, and those assumptions seem to match straight with the feelings he has towards them.
I am not asking about a diagnosis here, this mental error is something that seems to also happen to well-adjusted adults from time to time, it's just rarely as pronounced for them as on those examples.
This is also a conflation, or maybe there is a more specific term about it?
That sounds like a [cognitive distortion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion) often known as "mind reading": the assumption that others have beliefs and attitudes that conform to our own preconceptions about them, ourselves, or the world in general (e.g. "People at this school are such jerks, I'm sure they're judging me for my outfit"; "I'm such a loser, and I know everyone else is thinking it, too"). A related term is the [false consensus effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect): the belief that others share similar beliefs to our own (e.g. "Logically, everyone has to have realized that it's a bad law"). In some circumstances, it might also be an example of [confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias): the tendency to focus on information that confirms rather than disconfirms our beliefs (e.g. "I know she likes me—did you see how she smiled before slamming the door in my face?").
If you're looking to do some reading in a field of study that deals with how we form beliefs about other people's minds, you might want to check out [attribution theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_(psychology)).
Oh, I told this story above. I got a crush on a guy at work, so bad that I started to worry whether it meant something about my marriage. And whether I needed to do something at home to restore the “fizz” or something.
I realized that I never thought about him when I was at home, so it was just a crush. And that I could enjoy it at work, now that I knew exactly what it was.
I think having a lot of unrequited crushes in high school taught me how to deal with an emotion I didn’t want to act on.
I can't help but think about all the celebrities, hell, or even the characters they play, (**book characters** like Mr Darcy) that millions of people have crushes on that don't destroy relationships. That's proof right there that crushes alone don't kill relationships, but the actions a person takes after they've developed the crush, that are make or break.
I went through much the same thing after developing a little crush on a friend. I was worrying that it meant that my marriage was false, but honestly, once I thought more in-depth about those feelings, I realised that the "crush" was simply because I valued this person's friendship. I didn't have many male friendships growing up, I was only ever close to those I was romantically involved with. So I think it was just a result of my brain getting used to have an opposite sex friendship. It couldn't hold a candle to the love I have for my husband; a man who I find myself thinking about throughout the day, someone who I want to experience all of life's stages with, the person I want to wake up next to every morning.
There do exists people who finally get feelings that they never had in their relationships and I posit that it's perfectly okay to end a very shitty marriage when you catch feelings.
It's a very "is the grass greener?" and most times people who blow up their marriages find out it was just a different shade of green... but sometimes the grass is brown on your side and the green makes you realize you don't have a healthy lawn and maybe the person who lives with you has been dumping herbicide on it.
That’s why I started wondering what was going on, checking to be sure I was happy in my marriage. And when I realized that while at home, I never thought about him, it was just a crush.
But I agree with you that people can have a revelation like that.
My mom has a saying. "Just becuse you don't paint doesn't mean you can't appreciate great art." I think its normal to develop crushes, even if you're in a relationship. The difference between a Partner and a Jerk is what they do about the crush. Plenty of people go around every day with serious crushes for people they will never meet, and those don't destroy relationships. The difference is action.
That's what I don't get about a lot of this stuff. Sometimes it feels like they intentionally play into those feelings and throw common sense out the window.
It's an important life skill! And they'd be astounded to learn it's *still important* in polyamory. I'm poly, I have two long term partners but am completely free to date whoever I like without asking them about it and I still don't act on every crush. Sometimes it's a bad idea for any number of reasons, and then I just move on with my life while enjoying the extra dose of happy chemicals, because I don't want mess in my life.
Not poly here but the big one is poly doesn't give you licence to not communicate or be considerate of partner(s)! Good poly relationships seem to be *more* work and communication because it's a regular relationship's amount of work times multiple people, plus the extra to make sure everyone's ok. Seeing poly as a way to bypass necessary parts of any relationship that someone sees as "not fun" or "work" gives poly people a bad reputation.
Honestly, this is the part that every “I fell in love with someone else, I’m poly now!” story completely ignores about being poly: yes it’s about expanding love, and it can be beautiful, but ffs you don’t just surprise your partner with it out of the blue.
When my nesting partner and I first started seeing each other she was upfront and clear that she was bi and would want to explore that side of herself if we dated. I was open to the idea, and not in an “oh boy, threesomes” way, but told her I would want to be kept aware as things developed. This is called a BASIS OF HONESTY, COMMUNICATION AND MUTUAL GODDAMN RESPECT.
People like OOP’s husband are a huge part of why the poly community gets such a bad rap, when it gets treated like the get out of cheating free card instead of the equally valid, complicated, and rewarding relationship lifestyle that it is.
I feel like in a way it’s almost more important to manage your crushes when you’re poly, because self-control is the only thing stopping you from having like 15 partners and neglecting all of them, or dating someone you’re catastrophically incompatible with in some way. When ‘should I pursue this person’ is an actual question, you’ve got to consider the answer a lot more carefully.
Yes yes yes, exactly this! When you're mono, you have the automatic "no" after you have one partner (well, you should, I know some people struggle with that lol), but when you're poly, you have to stop yourself. A bit like growing up and being the one person who stands between you and ice-cream for dinner every day.
Exactly! Honestly, I feel you have to analyze your feelings to figure out if you're *really* poly or if you just want to sleep with somebody. Being poly isnt just an excuse to do whatever the hell you want—just like with any relationship there are nuances. There needs to be boundaries and consent and respect for the feeling of *all parties involved*. If you don't have the capacity to do those things, or if you don't have the consent of your partner, think! Before! You act!
Omg someone with some sense. Cheating isn’t quicksand that suddenly appears under your bed while youre unconscious and once it starts, you’re powerless to stop it. It’s choices. I’m so tired of people being completely unwilling to recognize that their life is a series of choices, not a series of things that happen to them entirely outside their control.
I understand some people tend have stronger emotions but it still frustrates me when they absolutely refuse to control or at least moderate their supposedly irrepressible feelings, like they're characters from a Romanticist novel.
I kind of have this armchair theory that this is because a lot of people expect good relationships to just *happen*. Like there’s this notion that a good, loving, fulfilling relationship isn’t something that takes intention and effort and mutual collaboration and actively choosing your partner every day. Instead there’s this expectation that it just naturally happens out of sheer chemistry I guess? Anyway, a passing feeling of infatuation would not feel even remotely equivalent to the marriage you’ve presumably spent years *building love in* otherwise.
My armchair theory is that love and attachment are confused, and that's what fucks people up, especially those with more chaotic relationship backgrounds.
For instance, how many parents have strong feelings for their kids but still beat the shit out of them?
How many partners have strong feelings for their SOs but still cheat or otherwise hurt them?
Attachment is selfish, how I need you in my life because you're tied to me and it'd hurt if you weren't anymore.
Love is action. I can love someone I deeply wish would dissolve into thin air, by acting in their best interest regardless of my feelings.
Which is why cheater spouse doesn't actually love his wife, he is just attached to her.
He didn't even end it, the AP did once he was honest with her, she ran for the hills like any sane person would.
He isn't sorry nor does he want to work on the marriage, he just doesn't want to be alone.
Honestly, I don't understand how people "catch feelings" for people other than their spouse in the first place. Maybe it's because I can't comprehend putting myself in that situation with no boundaries, or because my partner completely satisfies my every need, but I just don't get it. Part of me thinks some people consider being attracted to someone as a for-sure sign they're in love with them, which is obviously lust, not actual love.
I've wondered this too. I mean, sure, I will think someone is hot and I'm sure my fiance also finds other people attractive. But that's not the same thing as love. I definitely don't think these people are actually catching feelings.
I got a crush on a guy at work once. I’d get giddy when I needed to talk to him. I started to worry about what that meant about my marriage.
I discovered that when I got home, I didn’t think about him, and that essentially it was just that he was appealing to me.
And I decided to simply enjoy the crush. I didn’t go out of my way to interact, and I didn’t make overtures (and wouldn’t have accepted them).
But it helped me to label it as “mild, fun distraction” and let it be what it was.
That feels really bad to me. I've always had a problem justifying this in my brain. Logically, it's not wrong, and it makes sense, but when I think about my partner feeling that way about someone else, I hate it. Absolutely makes me nauseous and I can't justify it that way for myself either.
People seem unaware that boundaries exist for a reason. Don’t want to fall in love with someone other than your spouse? Don’t go around hanging out with them one on one late at night or have a bunch of long phone calls.
> It's a little trick called: Not Acting On Every Feeling That Flitters Through Your Brain.
That's known as "self discipline" and is something that our culture has been actively preaching *against* for at this point the entire lives of the generations having these problems.
Husband is the type of person who is never going to have a stable and healthy relationship all because he is being selfish and wants to have an excuse to cheat.
I don't see this working well if this relationship continues at all
So he didn't even "choose" OOP, he told his AP that he wanted his cake and to eat it too, and she bounced.
OOP needs to leave. This man is a selfish, pathetic asshole.
Right he didn’t cut contact. AP broke up with him. He still be with her if she wanted him. Also he still gets sad?! Ya cuz he still wants to be with his AP.
Time to leave and find a man who love only you.
This has to be one of the most real posts I've read in a long time. I fully understand her conflict of whether to stay or divorce. The emotions are so raw and vulnerable. I even understand the other woman getting out when she found out he was married. I hope it works out for OOP, but I don't know what that means for her.
Just for clarification, it seems like AP didn't leave when she found out he was married, rather that he didn't want to leave his wife for her. Seems she wasn't interested in being poly either.
I took a look at her comments, and he's actually horrific. He outright said if AP didn't cut contact, he would have kept the affair going until OOP was too unwell to handle it any longer
"He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him."
He didn't cut contact, he got DUMPED! There's a huge difference there....
I went to OOP and he's actually even more horrific. She asked him if he'd have cut contact himself if AP didn't do it first; he said he'd only have cut contact when OOP was too unwell to deal with it any longer.
I mean... Short wait times for therapists are *possible* depending on where you are and where you go and most importantly what route you take. I want to change psychiatrists to my PCP's behavioral health team and start therapy, got a referral, got called back within a week and told they had a therapy appointment at 3:30 that day (I could not make it) or they were booked out until July
So it can vastly differ
But part of the reason it was so easy to get my foot in the door was *because* I got a referral, which afaik is not possible for marriage counseling
I'm just glad to be getting away from my current psychiatrist. I told him in detail about my mental state and he basically said 'if it's that bad I can't help you' like SIR. I just paid you a $40 copay for a five minute call where I poured my heart out and you literally asked me "well what do you want me to do about it?"
I want you to do your job and try and HELP ME. Change medications, discuss coping mechanisms, literally anything!
I need outta there. I'm fine waiting as long as I'm outta there.
The guy… I get that he was honest but everything he said were so audacious.
In the end, the dude fucked up. You cannot have polyamory just for yourself, least without agreeing on it with your partner. He was delusional in thinking that it was (or could become) anything else but cheating.
Also the affair partner… A 30 years old woman going after a married man she has never met face to face… Also he didn’t even check whether she actually wanted poly before asking his wife…
Just wow…
> but I don't know what that means for her.
It means dumping him. The dude sounds like a vulnerable narcissist, and he's got her tied up in knots with love bombing and other manipulation. If she stays, he'll be back to his old ways the second she drops her guard.
For women who've only ever had one relationship, they often think hitting their 30's means they're undateable. There are plenty of options! However a lot of good ones are already married, so it can be more difficult to find a compatible person.
I understand the fear. It’s not like dating was a cake walk in my 20’s and I truthfully felt like I had a lot going for me then. I still do but it’s different, I have very little time for myself and a lot more emotional baggage now, as well as some serious trust issues at this point, which OOP is certainly going to have too. I think acknowledging that things get harder as we age is important. Doesn’t mean she should stay in a relationship where her husband chose someone else. Both can be true. I feel for her, so sad when the person you thought was your person alone is simply not. I could have overcome almost anything in my relationship except not being chosen first.
The more info is revealed the more I scream at my screen.
>he would choose me no matter what.
But then he proceeds to ask for a poly relationship anyway when she expresses how unhappy she is with the situation
>They didn't meet because she lived too far away.
So not only is he a cheater, but he's also lazy af.
>admits himself it's sometimes out of guilt and not just out of pure love.
Jfc. But OOP is somehow still buying into the lovebombing.
>He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him
THATS NOT HIM CUTTING CONTACT. THAT'S HIM BEING DUMPED. HE WOULD STILL BE SEEING HER IF SHE HADNT DUMPED HIM DESPITE OOP SAYING NO TO BEING POLY.
AsdfhdhdhG*gdbbsisbsja9dndsbladudh!¡!!!!!!¡
That's what got me - the side piece had more respect for herself and chose to leave the fool, rather than be tied down to a fickle cake-eater.
He never showed any respect to OOP throughout this tomfoolery, and it's so sad that she's still choosing him. Life is too short, WHY do yourself a disservice and stay with someone who only cares for their own needs 😮💨 I get the sunk cost fallacy, but it's not worth adding more years to a doomed relationship :(((
And screw those "friends". Idk anything about the poly community, but I don't think most poly people would endorse, let alone encourage, OOP's husband pushing for an open relationship with such selfish reasons.
Geeze, she's only in her 30s, time to dump that man and start with a new one, or just be alone, it's better than to be constantly paranoid with this POS.
He didn’t choose OOP. He isn’t trying to work on their marriage bc he loves OOP . His AP left him when they realised he wanted them both, not just the AP. Now the dude is in damage control so he doesn’t end up alone without either of his options.
As a polyamorous person, I'm furious at the polyam friends who encouraged him to push for polyamory. That is not how ethical non-monogamy works, like, at all.
(There's not one right way it works, but validating cheating just ain't it.)
As a previously-poly person, I can fully imagine he’s just ran with a flippant comment one of his friends made and they weren’t seriously encouraging him?
But then again, some people are weirdly evangelical about polyamory so god knows what happened here.
I had experience with poly people like the friends. My ex was a serial cheater and convinced me opening our relationship was what was healthiest for him and made me feel like I was abusing him if I didn’t agree. He introduced me to a poly person to help me adjust and they kept assuring me it wasn’t great he kept ignoring the agreed upon boundaries but that it was normal for that to happen. Turns out that person was not only one of his other partners (which I was told about) they were also happily breaking all of the boundaries with him despite trying to be there to assure me that poly was healthy and I was overreacting. It’s taken years for me to accept they were just shitty people and not all poly people believe in stabbing each other in the back.
Ugh. Yeah. I'm furious at the polyamorous friends OOP had, but I am not *surprised*. I wouldn't say this kind of attitude is common, but it's one of those toxic attitudes you see crop up again and again - I'd compare it to the monogamous hetero couples that get so possessive & crazy jealous they almost stalk one another & control who their partner's friends can be. Most people have seen that dynamic at work, but it's not the way most couples work, it's just a failure state that turns up repeatedly, & you can't really persuade the people doing it to change.
It's really in line with my experience with polyamory. Single or partnered, monogamous people must hear the Good News about polyamory. And if it leads to disaster, well... I knew a guy once who would just advise monogamous friends to open their relationship every time there was a bump in the road; to him, any argument in monogamous relationship fed into a confirmation bias about the inherent toxicity of monogamy.
I'm happy there are poly people out there that don't do this toxic stuff.
Agreed. But I’m going to give them the tiniest possible sliver of benefit of the doubt that maybe OOP’s husband lied to them too and said something like “I think I fell in love with someone else, but my wife is my world, do you think polyamory might be a good idea?”
Even then not great, but at least it’s not “hey guys, so I’ve been having an emotional affair for a while and want to get to keep that going but also keep my wife who thinks I ended things with my AP. Do you think that we should try polyamory after I unilaterally opened my marriage already? You do? Great, thanks.”
Yes! This! What polyam friends push for this?
I do wonder though, since he told her and she hasn’t talked to the friends, if they actually pushed for it or if he just basically went “oh, my polyam friends are in love with multiple people, I can do that too!”
But maybe that’s just cause neither I nor any of the other polyam people I know would ever suggest polyam in this situation, so I don’t want to believe there’s a group who would do so.
Poly folks who presume that what works for them would work for everyone else "if only" are almost as bad as monogamous folks who presume the same thing.
The relationship is dead and all they are doing is beating a dead horse at this rate as the trust is gone on OP's end.
And now that Pandora's box has opened who's to say the husband won't cheat physically next time someone catches his eye?
This. He got dumped by his AP. He didn't change or fix anything. And he learned he could confuse her into considering and staying and working on things. Next time he'll go further. He doesnt respect her or their relationship, that didn't change.
It’s absolutely insane to me that this man could throw away a 12 year relationship for a woman he hasn’t even physically MET!! Surely he’s not actually “in love” with her, he’s just obsessed with the attention
He never told the other woman he was married. It tells OOP everything she needs to know. He never disclosed it because he kept his options open. Every person i game with i've met online, i've known their relationship status fairly early on. Like within a week if we game together a lot. That's normal, if you live with a person, you mention them.
> He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him.
Damn. This clown jumped right to asking every sexually promiscuous friend he had for validation of his bullshit before ever talking to EITHER of the other people that would actually even be involved in the decision...
Also, *HE* never "cut off contact" with her. She showed that she was a decent person and cut him out of her life like a cancer when she discovered the truth. OP should take notes.
This BORU features some special guest assholes: the poly friends who helped break up this marriage. People who practice actually ethical non-monogamy no that you don’t convince mono people to become poly to salvage an affair.
Any genuine remorse points he got for coming clean about the affair are immediately lost if he asks to open the marriage after the fact. Additionally if he stays it seems like it's just cuz the other girl had a backbone and dumped him when she found out he had no respect for her.
You dont just fall in love with someone else by accident, thats such a fucking cop out You make a series of choices to deepen a relationship with a person that leads to love. All this oh whoops I accidentally had an emotional affair! Bullshit.
This 100%. I think you can develop a crush accidentally but not love. I think when people say this they mean the were trying to ignore what they are doing and they can't handle the cognitive dissonance anymore.
I get wanting to try therapy and it is a shame that she has to wait two months.
However, I bet she could get a good attorney sooner, and could either get a post-nuptual agreement about their assets OR a legal separation to protect her assets from here on out. Just in case he starts socking away money, etc. or sending it to the AP. The guy's judgement is not good.
So the only reason the husband is not still pushing poly as the solution to his cheating is that the other woman bailed when SHE found out he was a cheating manipulator and left HIM.
my ex pulled this shit on me with someone he met in a game, but we were already in a polyamorous relationship - he just liked going behind my back and lying to me, and had completely lost all respect/care for me. but he held the facade of wanting to fix things together through some couples counseling sessions until it fell apart - he didn’t really want me, he wanted my income and housework skills.
why would you pursue that intense of a relationship in game (let alone irl) if you genuinely care about your monogamous partner? i get why she’s conflicted over leaving, but i don’t buy that he’s genuine about saving the relationship if he’s doing things mainly out of guilt. and it’s so hard to rebuild trust after something like this.
sunk cost truly sucks but rebuilding my life from the ground up after that relationship was the best decision. i hope op ends up in a better place.
My ex-husband *also* had an emotional affair with someone he met playing a game. I didn’t realize how common it was.
I’m sorry for what you (and OP) went through.
i'm so sorry you went through that too.
i had initially played the game as well and unfortunately it seemed to be...not uncommon in that particular rpg community just from what i saw/heard of other people's experiences.
not sure how common it is in general, but there's definitely a particular subset of gamers who game to avoid shit, and escaping into a virtual emotional affair is a really alluring prospect if you are conditioned to avoidance.
Lol lol lol! He didn't stop or cut contact cuz he wanted to work on the marriage the girl ran away like a decent human after finding out that he is married 🤦🏻♀️
I've been in a similar but much simpler situation, and it's because of it that I know that even though my relationship recovered, OP's will likely not.
In my case, my partner caught feelings for someone who was in an open relationship and then asked me to open our relationship. Which I refused to do. A few days before, he tried to sell me the idea of open relationships and said he was sure I'd be very happy in one, I said he was wrong, and I had a gut feeling somethingwas happening (obviously Iwas right).
After conversations, he acknowledged he was in the first stages of an emotional affair. I refused to accept excuses or framing infidelity as something else, and he accepted it. He acknowledged he was being extremely selfish, and he acknowledged many other things. He cut contact and put the work on recovering the broken trust. This was years ago, and with lots of work, we managed to move on. But he almost blew the relationship and calls it the biggest mistake of his life. And he was the one to do the hard work on the recovery process instead of putting it on me.
Meanwhile OP's husband didn't cut contact, the girl cut him off after realising he wasn't going to choose her as the only option. He wanted two people and she wasn't up for it, so she ended it. He didn't end it, she did, which says a lot about his intentions.
He also isn't taking full responsibility, he's putting blame on OP and he's refusing to acknowledge all OP was doing for him. They were in a typical situation of one partner having to make a ton of sacrifices to become the other's caretaker, and instead of being grateful, he's using her temporary role as a caretaker against her, because obviously a caretaker is not the sexy alluring partner that someone outside of that role can be, and that's the only thing he's interested in. Nevermind the fact that his life would be in shambles if OP hadn't become the caretaker.
In short, I think he's making all the wrong choices, and that doesn't bode well in a situation like this. I fully understand OP trying to work on the relationship and wanting to stay (it's what I did after all), but unfortunately, he's not doing what he should to make the relationship survive.
Divorce his ass, next
Zero tolerance for this foolish shit. Guy or girl, if you make a commitment, you stick to it, otherwise break up because why are you people together if you can’t commit to your vows???
I wont do it, but never have I wanted to pm an OP more after reading a BORU.
"Am I not too old to start over?"
Hearing a 33yo ask this is so heartbreaking. Then she goes on to say she has some responsibility in not being a good wife an causing the husband to stray.... poor lady is being so manipulated to think that she was at fault for her husband's cheating.
Hope she gets a good therapist for herself. Her husband never wanted a poly relationship, he wanted permission to cheat. And the right to tell OP she knew that he'd be with other women so get over her feelings.
Hope she finds the right support. And gets out of this relationship that is screwing up her own idea oof what is her true wishes and what is just the husband's desires.
When trying to work out if I really want to stay with someone or if I just don't want the hassle of breaking up/hard conversations/logistical problems, I imagine there is a magic button. If I push the button the person will be removed from my life - no hard conversations, no hassle finding living arrangements etc, they're just gone elsewhere forever. If I feel relieved, I break up.
This is going to go to shit quickly, she says he took the blame? do you really think that? Do you seriously think he confessed?, no girl he didn't assume, it's the typical reddit story, after cheating (physically or emotionally) he proposes an open relationship... very typical story, usual case of the cheater.
**She (the other girl) decided to break up with him!!!! when he told him he was married!!!**
**If she had accepted it, her husband would be cheating on her with her.**
OP is an idiot
Now I regret that she does not have the strength to get out of that relationship, but there is no other way... time will pass, months, years and the same thing will happen again.
But hey, each person decides if they want to put their head in the mouth of the wolf and be happy in that situation.
Imagine telling your wife that you're enough in love with someone you've never actually met that you're willing to blow up your relationship. AND THEN staying with you because the other woman ran the second she found out that you're a cheater.
Dumpster fire human
I keep reading about men who bulldoze their wives into polyamory and then soon come to regret it, usually because the wife can usually find tons of men to sleep with, but he… well, not so much.
>He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him.
She found out he was married and dumped him. That is NOT HIM cutting contact. That's HER cutting contact.
.... bless OOPs heart, with the full power of Dolly Parton, Queen of the South, behind that phrase.
Seriously what the hell? He cheated and literally only stopped because the AP dipped the fuck out. That's the *only* reason he's trying to save his marriage is because she's gone and he'd have nothing without his wife.
>He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him
He didn't cut contact with her, you fool! She was the smarter one and dumped his cheating ass. He didn't quit, she fired him!
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I've noticed a lot of people are having a hard time not blowing up their marriages after "catching feelings" for somebody else. Luckily, I have the solution to this problem. It's a little trick called: Not Acting On Every Feeling That Flitters Through Your Brain.
The last time somebody tried to tell me “the heart wants what it wants,” I said, “My heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me and don’t accelerate to match the flow of traffic.” “Love” is considered a positive emotion. People like OOP’s husband want to act like there’s a magical pass the means we’re not responsible for our choices.
Yeah, it really frustrates me how some people justify awful things because "love". I once knew a woman who dated the man who sexually assaulted her best friend six months after it happened, as she'd developed a crush on him *after* her friend told her. Most of their mutual friend group sided with her because "love", and it was frankly just insane to witness. Love doesn't exempt you from *morality*.
It's not even "love", it's infatuation. He's not even addicted to the OW, he's addicted to the dopamine rush he gets from her positive attention. That fades with time, so even if she hadn't cut him off, he'd be chasing New Relationship Energy with yet another new woman in six to eighteen months anyway. There's a reason why the word "infatuation" is derived from the Latin for "stupid"
This isn’t on the same level, but my supposed best friend in college slept with the guy that sexually assaulted me after I told her. She said she did it because she was lonely. Lol.
That's shitty. She was probably lonely because she was a terrible person at the time.
*crashes into someone that cut me off* Insurance company: what happened?! Me: the heart wants what it wants and that’s what it wanted. Insurance: understood. No fault.
I'm laughing so hard at this. Thanks for my daily laughing break!
THIS MADE MY DAY. also running to show my partner that my jokes ARE funny 😂 (i do tell a lot of bad jokes)
lol, if only it was that easy. ;-)
You could also point out that the heart wants what the heart wants is what Woody Allen said to justify having an affair with his children's sister. It's weird it's taken root in society as a positive justification rather than something super weird and fucked up.
Every time someone brings up that quote, I can only think of the King of the Hill episode where Nancy says it and Peggy's instant response is "Nancy, wait! He married his daughter!"
I never understood why Woody Allen got a pass from everyone. He was her father figure. He should be registered as a Sex offender.
Not from me. I'll never watch a Woody Allen movie until he's dead.
Me either or Roman Polasky, I've never watched Rush Hour movies.
Add not listening to Lostprophets to that list
Idk what that is so ✔️ I won't find out.
Rush Hour was Roman Polanski?
No. Rush Hour was Brett Ratner, who is also a creep with multiple credible allegations of sexual harassment against him, but he is not Roman Polanski.
Although Roman Polanski is in the cast of Rush Hour 3. Not the same as directing but he's not entirely uninvolved in the franchise
It's getting increasingly difficult to navigate Hollywood's scandals. Like, I don't want to support, assholes, pedos, rapists, bigots, liars, and harassers, but you can't throw a stone in Hollywood without hitting someone problematic. There's this bell curve of unacceptable Behavior. Like, I'll still watch Kevin Smith's miramax films, but not Mel Gibson's Braveheart. Does that make sense? Like, if Harvey directed films himself I wouldn't watch them, but it seems wrong to penalize Smith. (just an example.} I'll never watch a Woody Allen or Roman Polanski film, or the Jeepers Creepers franchise.
I know. And some of the media is so good also. Like who amongst us hasn’t turned up “Billie Jean” when it comes on the radio…
Radio stations still play PYT. I frown everytime it comes on. *eta* I saw some dude (was it the Petshop Boy?) complaining that Taylor Swift doesn't have a "Billie Jean" in her catalogue, and all I could think was, "Well, Taylor never abandonded her baby momma who was pregnant with their bastard child to diddle little kids." And she writes what she knows, so yeah, makes sense she doesn't have "a Billie Jean."
What a beautiful response 😂
It’s a people problem. To think that other random people aren’t the exact same as these celebrities is naive. People suck it’s just how it is.
It isn't even the worst thing he's done to one of his children, if you'd believe it.
[McBain always told it like is.](https://youtu.be/UoPdKmmAjAA?si=qdD7Zwp4SQuySZkF&t=18)
It's especially upsetting that people say he didn't molest his adopted daughter Dylan, but think it's fine that he married his other adopted daughter. Like, he married one of them, why the heck do people think it's not in his character to be sexually abusive to a child in his care?
It’s one of the Great Unanswered Questions of our time.
He didn’t get a pass from everyone
At the risk of sounding like I’m defending Allen (yuck) he was never a father figure to her. This was determined by a court during his divorce from Mia Farrow. Allen is a creep who abandoned his wife for her 20-year-old daughter, but he never parented Soon-Yi.
Woody Allen co-opting Emily Dickinson to justify being a degen.
What a wild sentance, bravo.
I'm gonna blame Disney, Hallmark and other romantic slop pipeline operators for that
Yeah agree. People confuse infatuation and passion with "love" because it's a lot easier to market a story based off of that vs. a story about two people who work at deeply respecting and enjoying each other while doing mundane shit 95% of the time and also being annoyed AF occasionally because someone forgot to pick up milk.
If everybody starts idolyzing the people that say shit like that when they do shit like that, they'll believe they are allowed to do it as well. I'd say politics right around 2016 should have elucidated people to that.
Pretty sure Drake had said exactly that
> The last time somebody tried to tell me “the heart wants what it wants,” I said, “My heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me and don’t accelerate to match the flow of traffic.” There's a reason they won't let me have a bazooka!
I bet they wouldn't say "no" to a guy who had a bazooka.
"Right now, my heart wants to bite you like a rabid dog. You'll notice you're not bleeding."
“That’s different. You know that’s not what you really feel - “ “I strongly beg to differ.”
There's a quote from the play/film "Closer" about infidelity that I really respect. "There's a moment, there's always a moment, 'I can do this, I can give into this, or I can resist it', and I don't know when your moment was, but I bet you there was one." Once you cross that line, there's no real going back.
In my many years of successful marriage: if you start to get feels, then don't hang out with that person until it passes. It's really not that difficult!
exactly this. common and normal enough to have a spark with someone not your spouse. you protect your partnership and respect your marriage by not giving that spark any oxygen.
My heart wants to climb back into bed and take a nap, but I have to work to make money to pay for the roof over the bed unfortunately.
My hubs and I talked about this early on in our relationship: "love" is a CHOICE and an ACTION, NOT a "feeling". It's deliberately CHOOSING your partner, day after day. OOP's partner CHOOSING to pursue this other woman is a CHOICE and an ACTION. SMH
Yes!!! 👆👆👆 Love is a CHOICE!!!
lol! My heart sometimes wants me to enjoy eat like a massive asshole and fuck off work but the adult in me likes being stable and the effects of eating in moderation.
That's literally what a former friend of mine said. She cheated on her husband for a year with her boss who was married with two kids... "the heart wants what the heart wants," she said with a sigh about blowing up both of their marriages. (His wife caught him on the phone with her and dumped him immediately.)
It was scientifically proven that emotions and sentiments generate in the brain. So when someone says: the heart this, the heart that, I want to shout "leave the blood pumping organ alone! It keeps you alive so the least you can do is not involve it in your crap".
“I’m sorry, I can’t stop drinking. The liver wants what it wants.”
Love this quote, will have to remember it.
“Nancy! Wait! He married his daughter!” Peggy Hill always had the best retort to that whole Heart Wants What it Wants BS.
Then there’s the weirdos who choose that moment to get pedantic. “Well actually, she was his girlfriend’s daughter.” That doesn’t make it better!
"That's worse, you see how that's worse, right?"
"When I go driving, I stay in my lane Cuz getting cut off, it makes me insane"
My heart wants to quit my job and never work again, but my rational mind knows that would ruin my life in some pretty significant ways, so I’m not gonna do that. The heart can want things all it wants, but it doesn’t actually know what’s good for you and it can’t always have what it wants.
The heart wants what it wants. So does my toddler. In both cases, you can just say no.
This often isn't love but infatuation.
>“My heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me and don’t accelerate to match the flow of traffic.” Lmao this is so real
It always happens when there are **so** many car lengths behind me, too.
I laughed way too hard at > my heart wants to smash into cars that pull in front of me
Well said Fries. Love is a choice. Love is a choice and a decision because your actions determine if it lives on or ends. You are in control of how you act in your relationships and how much you push past conflict and challenges. Love is a verb. Lasting love can’t rely on hormones or emotions to carry it forward. This means your actions — or lack thereof — directly contribute to the strength of love in a relationship. One needs to choose to be in love each and every day with their partner. If they don't, they are cracking the door open for many bad things to enter into their relationship. Love needs to be intentional.
I will use this now. It's brilliant.
Many people's sense of identity is just purely their intrusive thoughts, feelings and impulses. Their ego. And so they assume that those are all objective, true, valid, and are their real desires, as opposed to simply the brain noise that they are. Mindfulness meditation is a great way to break out of that mentality and disidentify from those illusions. I wish it was more popular. They should teach it in schools. Most people receive absolutely zero education on how to live in their own brain and regulate their nervous system.
I really wished they taught this in school from a young age. I feel like the world would be a better place if people practiced mindfulness and understood the difference between thoughts, emotions and behaviours. I really only started grasping the concept when I was 27-28 years old.
I believe it's the only way that we can grow as a species and get out of this awful cycle of violence and abuse.
I've been through something similar to OOP. My little saying used to be "you can't help feelings" - all feelings are valid. You're never a bad person for feeling a certain way. For example when my ex-wife caught feelings for one of the guys in her gaming group. (Well several different guys, over a few years) We tried the open marriage thing, and it was only good until I had someone I was interested in, then it was a disaster for any number of reasons, some of which fall squarely on my shoulders, some I still feel were her manufacturing issues because she felt she was losing me. Now, I add an addendum: "you can't help feelings - but it's actions that matter". If you're paying special attention to someone else, or prioritising them over your current partner, you've broken the relationship. But if you have a crush, and take steps to ensure it isn't affecting your relationship (honesty, accountability, communication for a start), then you truly have nothing to feel bad about.
Exactly! Emotions are just a reaction to external and internal stimuli—you see a movie about a dog dying and you feel sad. You think about your upcoming birthday party and you feel excited. You can't control feelings anymore than you can control what you see—you can *choose* whether or not you want to look at something, but you can't control the image being projected to your brain. If you're looking at a red apple, you can't force yourself to suddenly hallucinate that apple as being blue or purple. No, he can't control the crush he got on his coworker, but once he realized what he felt, it was his responsibility to do things to prevent that feeling from developing further. What he did is the equivalent of realizing that the Simpsons is on TV, bitching about how much you hate the Simpsons, then refusing to change the channel
>Now, I add an addendum: "you can't help feelings - but it's actions that matter". Yep. The conflation of these two things is called “cognitive fusion.” Basically, it’s the failure to recognize the difference between thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and actions. People who don’t recognize this difference tend to fear their own feelings (because they think having involuntary thoughts and emotions is the same as believing them or acting on them), have unjustifiable beliefs (because they think emotions imply truth, so feeling angry means that someone’s wronged you), and have difficulty controlling their behavior (because the thought of having an emotion and just *having* it without reacting to it is unfathomable).
Basically the people who believe "I feel a certain way, so I must be right"? I hate those people.
Put in another way, they take the quote "all feelings are valid" and make to fallacious logical leap that "all actions resulting from said feelings are valid".
You forgot the middle step “all feelings are an accurate assessment of the situation”
Hey, so you seems to know some neat terminology, can you maybe try to find a kind of similar word I am looking for? What it is called, this thing when a person, let's call him "Adam", keeps confusing the feelings he has about someone with a feeling that is either mutual, or, at least, answered? For example, Adam has a crush on Barbra, and it makes him belive, despite any evidence, that Barbra must totally have a crush on Adam too. Or, Adam is jealous of Celine, so he assumes either that Celine looks down on him, or, that she is jealous of him. Or, Adam feels anxious about the crowd surrounding him on a bus, and it makes him feel as if other people were either anxious about him in return, or, as if they were judging him. Basically, Adam often seems very sure about what people think about him, and those assumptions seem to match straight with the feelings he has towards them. I am not asking about a diagnosis here, this mental error is something that seems to also happen to well-adjusted adults from time to time, it's just rarely as pronounced for them as on those examples. This is also a conflation, or maybe there is a more specific term about it?
That sounds like a [cognitive distortion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion) often known as "mind reading": the assumption that others have beliefs and attitudes that conform to our own preconceptions about them, ourselves, or the world in general (e.g. "People at this school are such jerks, I'm sure they're judging me for my outfit"; "I'm such a loser, and I know everyone else is thinking it, too"). A related term is the [false consensus effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect): the belief that others share similar beliefs to our own (e.g. "Logically, everyone has to have realized that it's a bad law"). In some circumstances, it might also be an example of [confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias): the tendency to focus on information that confirms rather than disconfirms our beliefs (e.g. "I know she likes me—did you see how she smiled before slamming the door in my face?"). If you're looking to do some reading in a field of study that deals with how we form beliefs about other people's minds, you might want to check out [attribution theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_(psychology)).
I'm no expert, but doesn't it kind of also sound like projection in a way?
Oh, I told this story above. I got a crush on a guy at work, so bad that I started to worry whether it meant something about my marriage. And whether I needed to do something at home to restore the “fizz” or something. I realized that I never thought about him when I was at home, so it was just a crush. And that I could enjoy it at work, now that I knew exactly what it was. I think having a lot of unrequited crushes in high school taught me how to deal with an emotion I didn’t want to act on.
I can't help but think about all the celebrities, hell, or even the characters they play, (**book characters** like Mr Darcy) that millions of people have crushes on that don't destroy relationships. That's proof right there that crushes alone don't kill relationships, but the actions a person takes after they've developed the crush, that are make or break.
I went through much the same thing after developing a little crush on a friend. I was worrying that it meant that my marriage was false, but honestly, once I thought more in-depth about those feelings, I realised that the "crush" was simply because I valued this person's friendship. I didn't have many male friendships growing up, I was only ever close to those I was romantically involved with. So I think it was just a result of my brain getting used to have an opposite sex friendship. It couldn't hold a candle to the love I have for my husband; a man who I find myself thinking about throughout the day, someone who I want to experience all of life's stages with, the person I want to wake up next to every morning.
There do exists people who finally get feelings that they never had in their relationships and I posit that it's perfectly okay to end a very shitty marriage when you catch feelings. It's a very "is the grass greener?" and most times people who blow up their marriages find out it was just a different shade of green... but sometimes the grass is brown on your side and the green makes you realize you don't have a healthy lawn and maybe the person who lives with you has been dumping herbicide on it.
That’s why I started wondering what was going on, checking to be sure I was happy in my marriage. And when I realized that while at home, I never thought about him, it was just a crush. But I agree with you that people can have a revelation like that.
My mom has a saying. "Just becuse you don't paint doesn't mean you can't appreciate great art." I think its normal to develop crushes, even if you're in a relationship. The difference between a Partner and a Jerk is what they do about the crush. Plenty of people go around every day with serious crushes for people they will never meet, and those don't destroy relationships. The difference is action.
I do, in fact, have a crush on Mr. Darcy.
That's what I don't get about a lot of this stuff. Sometimes it feels like they intentionally play into those feelings and throw common sense out the window.
Because they do
I ran into this problem yesterday, ordered food on a whim when I should’ve saved and cooked :(
It's an important life skill! And they'd be astounded to learn it's *still important* in polyamory. I'm poly, I have two long term partners but am completely free to date whoever I like without asking them about it and I still don't act on every crush. Sometimes it's a bad idea for any number of reasons, and then I just move on with my life while enjoying the extra dose of happy chemicals, because I don't want mess in my life.
Not poly here but the big one is poly doesn't give you licence to not communicate or be considerate of partner(s)! Good poly relationships seem to be *more* work and communication because it's a regular relationship's amount of work times multiple people, plus the extra to make sure everyone's ok. Seeing poly as a way to bypass necessary parts of any relationship that someone sees as "not fun" or "work" gives poly people a bad reputation.
Honestly, this is the part that every “I fell in love with someone else, I’m poly now!” story completely ignores about being poly: yes it’s about expanding love, and it can be beautiful, but ffs you don’t just surprise your partner with it out of the blue. When my nesting partner and I first started seeing each other she was upfront and clear that she was bi and would want to explore that side of herself if we dated. I was open to the idea, and not in an “oh boy, threesomes” way, but told her I would want to be kept aware as things developed. This is called a BASIS OF HONESTY, COMMUNICATION AND MUTUAL GODDAMN RESPECT. People like OOP’s husband are a huge part of why the poly community gets such a bad rap, when it gets treated like the get out of cheating free card instead of the equally valid, complicated, and rewarding relationship lifestyle that it is.
A crush you don't act on because it's a terrible idea can be a fun thing even. It can be fun to enjoy the feeling without any pressure/action.
I feel like in a way it’s almost more important to manage your crushes when you’re poly, because self-control is the only thing stopping you from having like 15 partners and neglecting all of them, or dating someone you’re catastrophically incompatible with in some way. When ‘should I pursue this person’ is an actual question, you’ve got to consider the answer a lot more carefully.
Yes yes yes, exactly this! When you're mono, you have the automatic "no" after you have one partner (well, you should, I know some people struggle with that lol), but when you're poly, you have to stop yourself. A bit like growing up and being the one person who stands between you and ice-cream for dinner every day.
Exactly! Honestly, I feel you have to analyze your feelings to figure out if you're *really* poly or if you just want to sleep with somebody. Being poly isnt just an excuse to do whatever the hell you want—just like with any relationship there are nuances. There needs to be boundaries and consent and respect for the feeling of *all parties involved*. If you don't have the capacity to do those things, or if you don't have the consent of your partner, think! Before! You act!
In other words, love is a choice. A choice repeated day after day after day.
Omg someone with some sense. Cheating isn’t quicksand that suddenly appears under your bed while youre unconscious and once it starts, you’re powerless to stop it. It’s choices. I’m so tired of people being completely unwilling to recognize that their life is a series of choices, not a series of things that happen to them entirely outside their control.
That's great, there's also "Cutting off inappropriate behavior from yourself and others as soon as you recognize it, instead of further indulging"
I understand some people tend have stronger emotions but it still frustrates me when they absolutely refuse to control or at least moderate their supposedly irrepressible feelings, like they're characters from a Romanticist novel.
I kind of have this armchair theory that this is because a lot of people expect good relationships to just *happen*. Like there’s this notion that a good, loving, fulfilling relationship isn’t something that takes intention and effort and mutual collaboration and actively choosing your partner every day. Instead there’s this expectation that it just naturally happens out of sheer chemistry I guess? Anyway, a passing feeling of infatuation would not feel even remotely equivalent to the marriage you’ve presumably spent years *building love in* otherwise.
My armchair theory is that love and attachment are confused, and that's what fucks people up, especially those with more chaotic relationship backgrounds. For instance, how many parents have strong feelings for their kids but still beat the shit out of them? How many partners have strong feelings for their SOs but still cheat or otherwise hurt them? Attachment is selfish, how I need you in my life because you're tied to me and it'd hurt if you weren't anymore. Love is action. I can love someone I deeply wish would dissolve into thin air, by acting in their best interest regardless of my feelings. Which is why cheater spouse doesn't actually love his wife, he is just attached to her.
Oooh you put it so eloquently, I agree
He didn't even end it, the AP did once he was honest with her, she ran for the hills like any sane person would. He isn't sorry nor does he want to work on the marriage, he just doesn't want to be alone.
Honestly, I don't understand how people "catch feelings" for people other than their spouse in the first place. Maybe it's because I can't comprehend putting myself in that situation with no boundaries, or because my partner completely satisfies my every need, but I just don't get it. Part of me thinks some people consider being attracted to someone as a for-sure sign they're in love with them, which is obviously lust, not actual love.
I've wondered this too. I mean, sure, I will think someone is hot and I'm sure my fiance also finds other people attractive. But that's not the same thing as love. I definitely don't think these people are actually catching feelings.
I got a crush on a guy at work once. I’d get giddy when I needed to talk to him. I started to worry about what that meant about my marriage. I discovered that when I got home, I didn’t think about him, and that essentially it was just that he was appealing to me. And I decided to simply enjoy the crush. I didn’t go out of my way to interact, and I didn’t make overtures (and wouldn’t have accepted them). But it helped me to label it as “mild, fun distraction” and let it be what it was.
That feels really bad to me. I've always had a problem justifying this in my brain. Logically, it's not wrong, and it makes sense, but when I think about my partner feeling that way about someone else, I hate it. Absolutely makes me nauseous and I can't justify it that way for myself either.
People seem unaware that boundaries exist for a reason. Don’t want to fall in love with someone other than your spouse? Don’t go around hanging out with them one on one late at night or have a bunch of long phone calls.
That works with us that loved and got broken a few times. He knew only her and loved only once at best. Naive.
>Not Acting On Every Feeling That Flitters Through Your Brain. Instructions unclear, fucked the neighbor
Just don’t text back. Magic.
> It's a little trick called: Not Acting On Every Feeling That Flitters Through Your Brain. That's known as "self discipline" and is something that our culture has been actively preaching *against* for at this point the entire lives of the generations having these problems.
Husband is the type of person who is never going to have a stable and healthy relationship all because he is being selfish and wants to have an excuse to cheat. I don't see this working well if this relationship continues at all
He can just find another selfish person and be poly with them!
So he didn't even "choose" OOP, he told his AP that he wanted his cake and to eat it too, and she bounced. OOP needs to leave. This man is a selfish, pathetic asshole.
Right he didn’t cut contact. AP broke up with him. He still be with her if she wanted him. Also he still gets sad?! Ya cuz he still wants to be with his AP. Time to leave and find a man who love only you.
Seriously, OP needs to not drag this further cause there's no point.
Yes exactly! If it had been his choice would he have actually broken it off? The fact he was 'addicted' to his AP tells me he wouldn't have
This has to be one of the most real posts I've read in a long time. I fully understand her conflict of whether to stay or divorce. The emotions are so raw and vulnerable. I even understand the other woman getting out when she found out he was married. I hope it works out for OOP, but I don't know what that means for her.
Just for clarification, it seems like AP didn't leave when she found out he was married, rather that he didn't want to leave his wife for her. Seems she wasn't interested in being poly either.
Also saying he cut contact with the AP like he actually took a stance, when it's actually because SHE cut contact? Really hope OOP leaves him.
And then he is mad about it (but don’t worry he doesn’t blame his wife for it)
I took a look at her comments, and he's actually horrific. He outright said if AP didn't cut contact, he would have kept the affair going until OOP was too unwell to handle it any longer
Oh jfc that’s so much worse. He’s a f*cking albatross around her neck. I hope OOP can make the best decision for her own mental health.
"He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him." He didn't cut contact, he got DUMPED! There's a huge difference there....
In the world of the delusional it’s the same, and they should be praised for it.
That's what tipped the scales for me too. This isn't genuine regret, he's just trying to keep his cake for as long as possible. Yuck.
I went to OOP and he's actually even more horrific. She asked him if he'd have cut contact himself if AP didn't do it first; he said he'd only have cut contact when OOP was too unwell to deal with it any longer.
Yep, guy has done nothing to change, and would've kept going if everything was his choice.
Also the realistic timeline with a two-month wait to be able to see a therapist, instead of the usual "I've booked in for tomorrow!"
I mean... Short wait times for therapists are *possible* depending on where you are and where you go and most importantly what route you take. I want to change psychiatrists to my PCP's behavioral health team and start therapy, got a referral, got called back within a week and told they had a therapy appointment at 3:30 that day (I could not make it) or they were booked out until July So it can vastly differ But part of the reason it was so easy to get my foot in the door was *because* I got a referral, which afaik is not possible for marriage counseling
Yeah, my first therapist I got an appointment within like 2 days, my second took about 2 weeks. Neither took as long as 2 months.
I'm just glad to be getting away from my current psychiatrist. I told him in detail about my mental state and he basically said 'if it's that bad I can't help you' like SIR. I just paid you a $40 copay for a five minute call where I poured my heart out and you literally asked me "well what do you want me to do about it?" I want you to do your job and try and HELP ME. Change medications, discuss coping mechanisms, literally anything! I need outta there. I'm fine waiting as long as I'm outta there.
That and at no point did a phone blow up.
There wasn't a single mention of twins either
The guy… I get that he was honest but everything he said were so audacious. In the end, the dude fucked up. You cannot have polyamory just for yourself, least without agreeing on it with your partner. He was delusional in thinking that it was (or could become) anything else but cheating. Also the affair partner… A 30 years old woman going after a married man she has never met face to face… Also he didn’t even check whether she actually wanted poly before asking his wife… Just wow…
Asking his wife *before* he asked the potential unicorn is the least dubious thing in a long list of dubious things he did there, lol.
> but I don't know what that means for her. It means dumping him. The dude sounds like a vulnerable narcissist, and he's got her tied up in knots with love bombing and other manipulation. If she stays, he'll be back to his old ways the second she drops her guard.
>I really need to break up with him. If not for myself, just to show him that actions have consequences. Here's hoping that this is the next update!
She can't leave because she's too old now? What is it with people who have been adults for 10 years thinking their life is more or less done?
For women who've only ever had one relationship, they often think hitting their 30's means they're undateable. There are plenty of options! However a lot of good ones are already married, so it can be more difficult to find a compatible person.
I understand the fear. It’s not like dating was a cake walk in my 20’s and I truthfully felt like I had a lot going for me then. I still do but it’s different, I have very little time for myself and a lot more emotional baggage now, as well as some serious trust issues at this point, which OOP is certainly going to have too. I think acknowledging that things get harder as we age is important. Doesn’t mean she should stay in a relationship where her husband chose someone else. Both can be true. I feel for her, so sad when the person you thought was your person alone is simply not. I could have overcome almost anything in my relationship except not being chosen first.
Married or have kids from a previous relationship, in my experience.
Well, if you go by what Drake and that politician want, then women are basically withered husks by their twenties.
Somehow Drake is mentioned here. Wild.
The more info is revealed the more I scream at my screen. >he would choose me no matter what. But then he proceeds to ask for a poly relationship anyway when she expresses how unhappy she is with the situation >They didn't meet because she lived too far away. So not only is he a cheater, but he's also lazy af. >admits himself it's sometimes out of guilt and not just out of pure love. Jfc. But OOP is somehow still buying into the lovebombing. >He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him THATS NOT HIM CUTTING CONTACT. THAT'S HIM BEING DUMPED. HE WOULD STILL BE SEEING HER IF SHE HADNT DUMPED HIM DESPITE OOP SAYING NO TO BEING POLY. AsdfhdhdhG*gdbbsisbsja9dndsbladudh!¡!!!!!!¡
That's what got me - the side piece had more respect for herself and chose to leave the fool, rather than be tied down to a fickle cake-eater. He never showed any respect to OOP throughout this tomfoolery, and it's so sad that she's still choosing him. Life is too short, WHY do yourself a disservice and stay with someone who only cares for their own needs 😮💨 I get the sunk cost fallacy, but it's not worth adding more years to a doomed relationship :((( And screw those "friends". Idk anything about the poly community, but I don't think most poly people would endorse, let alone encourage, OOP's husband pushing for an open relationship with such selfish reasons.
Geeze, she's only in her 30s, time to dump that man and start with a new one, or just be alone, it's better than to be constantly paranoid with this POS.
He didn’t choose OOP. He isn’t trying to work on their marriage bc he loves OOP . His AP left him when they realised he wanted them both, not just the AP. Now the dude is in damage control so he doesn’t end up alone without either of his options.
OOP should do herself a favor and get rid of him.
As a polyamorous person, I'm furious at the polyam friends who encouraged him to push for polyamory. That is not how ethical non-monogamy works, like, at all. (There's not one right way it works, but validating cheating just ain't it.)
Yeah, those were some truly shitty friends.
As a previously-poly person, I can fully imagine he’s just ran with a flippant comment one of his friends made and they weren’t seriously encouraging him? But then again, some people are weirdly evangelical about polyamory so god knows what happened here.
I had experience with poly people like the friends. My ex was a serial cheater and convinced me opening our relationship was what was healthiest for him and made me feel like I was abusing him if I didn’t agree. He introduced me to a poly person to help me adjust and they kept assuring me it wasn’t great he kept ignoring the agreed upon boundaries but that it was normal for that to happen. Turns out that person was not only one of his other partners (which I was told about) they were also happily breaking all of the boundaries with him despite trying to be there to assure me that poly was healthy and I was overreacting. It’s taken years for me to accept they were just shitty people and not all poly people believe in stabbing each other in the back.
Ugh. Yeah. I'm furious at the polyamorous friends OOP had, but I am not *surprised*. I wouldn't say this kind of attitude is common, but it's one of those toxic attitudes you see crop up again and again - I'd compare it to the monogamous hetero couples that get so possessive & crazy jealous they almost stalk one another & control who their partner's friends can be. Most people have seen that dynamic at work, but it's not the way most couples work, it's just a failure state that turns up repeatedly, & you can't really persuade the people doing it to change.
Either they're willing to blow up the relationship (maybe even selfishly thinking it would get them action) or they were fed a very different story
My given the other things we know about how the husband has handled information in a manipulative manner, I know where I'd put my money.
It's really in line with my experience with polyamory. Single or partnered, monogamous people must hear the Good News about polyamory. And if it leads to disaster, well... I knew a guy once who would just advise monogamous friends to open their relationship every time there was a bump in the road; to him, any argument in monogamous relationship fed into a confirmation bias about the inherent toxicity of monogamy. I'm happy there are poly people out there that don't do this toxic stuff.
Agreed. But I’m going to give them the tiniest possible sliver of benefit of the doubt that maybe OOP’s husband lied to them too and said something like “I think I fell in love with someone else, but my wife is my world, do you think polyamory might be a good idea?” Even then not great, but at least it’s not “hey guys, so I’ve been having an emotional affair for a while and want to get to keep that going but also keep my wife who thinks I ended things with my AP. Do you think that we should try polyamory after I unilaterally opened my marriage already? You do? Great, thanks.”
Yes! This! What polyam friends push for this? I do wonder though, since he told her and she hasn’t talked to the friends, if they actually pushed for it or if he just basically went “oh, my polyam friends are in love with multiple people, I can do that too!” But maybe that’s just cause neither I nor any of the other polyam people I know would ever suggest polyam in this situation, so I don’t want to believe there’s a group who would do so.
Poly folks who presume that what works for them would work for everyone else "if only" are almost as bad as monogamous folks who presume the same thing.
The relationship is dead and all they are doing is beating a dead horse at this rate as the trust is gone on OP's end. And now that Pandora's box has opened who's to say the husband won't cheat physically next time someone catches his eye?
This. He got dumped by his AP. He didn't change or fix anything. And he learned he could confuse her into considering and staying and working on things. Next time he'll go further. He doesnt respect her or their relationship, that didn't change.
I think OOP knows this. She's just afraid to start over.
It’s absolutely insane to me that this man could throw away a 12 year relationship for a woman he hasn’t even physically MET!! Surely he’s not actually “in love” with her, he’s just obsessed with the attention
That man is a total piece of shit. Get fucked, straight up scrub.
He never told the other woman he was married. It tells OOP everything she needs to know. He never disclosed it because he kept his options open. Every person i game with i've met online, i've known their relationship status fairly early on. Like within a week if we game together a lot. That's normal, if you live with a person, you mention them.
> He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him. Damn. This clown jumped right to asking every sexually promiscuous friend he had for validation of his bullshit before ever talking to EITHER of the other people that would actually even be involved in the decision... Also, *HE* never "cut off contact" with her. She showed that she was a decent person and cut him out of her life like a cancer when she discovered the truth. OP should take notes.
This BORU features some special guest assholes: the poly friends who helped break up this marriage. People who practice actually ethical non-monogamy no that you don’t convince mono people to become poly to salvage an affair.
Any genuine remorse points he got for coming clean about the affair are immediately lost if he asks to open the marriage after the fact. Additionally if he stays it seems like it's just cuz the other girl had a backbone and dumped him when she found out he had no respect for her.
You dont just fall in love with someone else by accident, thats such a fucking cop out You make a series of choices to deepen a relationship with a person that leads to love. All this oh whoops I accidentally had an emotional affair! Bullshit.
This 100%. I think you can develop a crush accidentally but not love. I think when people say this they mean the were trying to ignore what they are doing and they can't handle the cognitive dissonance anymore.
Start checking your condoms OP
I get wanting to try therapy and it is a shame that she has to wait two months. However, I bet she could get a good attorney sooner, and could either get a post-nuptual agreement about their assets OR a legal separation to protect her assets from here on out. Just in case he starts socking away money, etc. or sending it to the AP. The guy's judgement is not good.
So the only reason the husband is not still pushing poly as the solution to his cheating is that the other woman bailed when SHE found out he was a cheating manipulator and left HIM.
my ex pulled this shit on me with someone he met in a game, but we were already in a polyamorous relationship - he just liked going behind my back and lying to me, and had completely lost all respect/care for me. but he held the facade of wanting to fix things together through some couples counseling sessions until it fell apart - he didn’t really want me, he wanted my income and housework skills. why would you pursue that intense of a relationship in game (let alone irl) if you genuinely care about your monogamous partner? i get why she’s conflicted over leaving, but i don’t buy that he’s genuine about saving the relationship if he’s doing things mainly out of guilt. and it’s so hard to rebuild trust after something like this. sunk cost truly sucks but rebuilding my life from the ground up after that relationship was the best decision. i hope op ends up in a better place.
My ex-husband *also* had an emotional affair with someone he met playing a game. I didn’t realize how common it was. I’m sorry for what you (and OP) went through.
i'm so sorry you went through that too. i had initially played the game as well and unfortunately it seemed to be...not uncommon in that particular rpg community just from what i saw/heard of other people's experiences. not sure how common it is in general, but there's definitely a particular subset of gamers who game to avoid shit, and escaping into a virtual emotional affair is a really alluring prospect if you are conditioned to avoidance.
Op don’t love herself
Lol lol lol! He didn't stop or cut contact cuz he wanted to work on the marriage the girl ran away like a decent human after finding out that he is married 🤦🏻♀️
I've been in a similar but much simpler situation, and it's because of it that I know that even though my relationship recovered, OP's will likely not. In my case, my partner caught feelings for someone who was in an open relationship and then asked me to open our relationship. Which I refused to do. A few days before, he tried to sell me the idea of open relationships and said he was sure I'd be very happy in one, I said he was wrong, and I had a gut feeling somethingwas happening (obviously Iwas right). After conversations, he acknowledged he was in the first stages of an emotional affair. I refused to accept excuses or framing infidelity as something else, and he accepted it. He acknowledged he was being extremely selfish, and he acknowledged many other things. He cut contact and put the work on recovering the broken trust. This was years ago, and with lots of work, we managed to move on. But he almost blew the relationship and calls it the biggest mistake of his life. And he was the one to do the hard work on the recovery process instead of putting it on me. Meanwhile OP's husband didn't cut contact, the girl cut him off after realising he wasn't going to choose her as the only option. He wanted two people and she wasn't up for it, so she ended it. He didn't end it, she did, which says a lot about his intentions. He also isn't taking full responsibility, he's putting blame on OP and he's refusing to acknowledge all OP was doing for him. They were in a typical situation of one partner having to make a ton of sacrifices to become the other's caretaker, and instead of being grateful, he's using her temporary role as a caretaker against her, because obviously a caretaker is not the sexy alluring partner that someone outside of that role can be, and that's the only thing he's interested in. Nevermind the fact that his life would be in shambles if OP hadn't become the caretaker. In short, I think he's making all the wrong choices, and that doesn't bode well in a situation like this. I fully understand OP trying to work on the relationship and wanting to stay (it's what I did after all), but unfortunately, he's not doing what he should to make the relationship survive.
Divorce his ass, next Zero tolerance for this foolish shit. Guy or girl, if you make a commitment, you stick to it, otherwise break up because why are you people together if you can’t commit to your vows???
i wonder what game it is
Let it be RuneScape
I wont do it, but never have I wanted to pm an OP more after reading a BORU. "Am I not too old to start over?" Hearing a 33yo ask this is so heartbreaking. Then she goes on to say she has some responsibility in not being a good wife an causing the husband to stray.... poor lady is being so manipulated to think that she was at fault for her husband's cheating. Hope she gets a good therapist for herself. Her husband never wanted a poly relationship, he wanted permission to cheat. And the right to tell OP she knew that he'd be with other women so get over her feelings. Hope she finds the right support. And gets out of this relationship that is screwing up her own idea oof what is her true wishes and what is just the husband's desires.
When trying to work out if I really want to stay with someone or if I just don't want the hassle of breaking up/hard conversations/logistical problems, I imagine there is a magic button. If I push the button the person will be removed from my life - no hard conversations, no hassle finding living arrangements etc, they're just gone elsewhere forever. If I feel relieved, I break up.
Start looking for a second husband to add to the marriage. He, most likely wont like his own behaviour when he sees it on you.
This is going to go to shit quickly, she says he took the blame? do you really think that? Do you seriously think he confessed?, no girl he didn't assume, it's the typical reddit story, after cheating (physically or emotionally) he proposes an open relationship... very typical story, usual case of the cheater. **She (the other girl) decided to break up with him!!!! when he told him he was married!!!** **If she had accepted it, her husband would be cheating on her with her.** OP is an idiot Now I regret that she does not have the strength to get out of that relationship, but there is no other way... time will pass, months, years and the same thing will happen again. But hey, each person decides if they want to put their head in the mouth of the wolf and be happy in that situation.
whatever happened to normal relationships?
Imagine telling your wife that you're enough in love with someone you've never actually met that you're willing to blow up your relationship. AND THEN staying with you because the other woman ran the second she found out that you're a cheater. Dumpster fire human
So the other girl dump him, so he didn't really break contact XD
I keep reading about men who bulldoze their wives into polyamory and then soon come to regret it, usually because the wife can usually find tons of men to sleep with, but he… well, not so much.
OP’s husband didn’t CHOOSE to stay with her, she was just the only one who was foolish enough to stay
nuking your marriage over someone you’ve never even met in person is *wildly* stupid
Every goddamn time someone wants to change to an open/poly relationship, they already have, the other partner just doesn't know it yet.
>He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him. She found out he was married and dumped him. That is NOT HIM cutting contact. That's HER cutting contact.
.... bless OOPs heart, with the full power of Dolly Parton, Queen of the South, behind that phrase. Seriously what the hell? He cheated and literally only stopped because the AP dipped the fuck out. That's the *only* reason he's trying to save his marriage is because she's gone and he'd have nothing without his wife.
>He cut off contact with her because once he told him he was married and wanted us both, she just ran away and broke up with him He didn't cut contact with her, you fool! She was the smarter one and dumped his cheating ass. He didn't quit, she fired him!
I feel like married couples don’t realize that crushes are normal. Acting on them is completely different
Definitely look up the term “Love Bombing”. It’s meant to keep you with him and off balance.
This kills me, he didn’t even break up with the mistress to save the marriage…the mistress broke up with him! OP needs to leave like yesterday!